And with that, Ms. McCarthy excuses herself from the valid discussion table.

This woman is not courageous, just frightened and frighteningly misinformed.”

I just want to remind everyone that if you were to call your doctor saying your child was sick, the first thing they would ask about is things like fevers and other symptoms, then they would work to find a short-term cure. Most doctors don’t try and concern themselves with the cause of something like this and if a child gets a fever from an immunization oh well, it’s a common thing in their opionion, give the kid some tylenol and he’ll be fine in the morning right? To any typical pedatrician its not worth immediatly checking the neurological effects of a child based off a bad immunization reaction especially when it seems as mild as a fever. They’re not the ones who see day by day the de-proggression of our children’s social behaviors. The parent’s are. Parent’s are documenting many symptoms, considering their their children’s environments, diets, medications and coming to the same hypothesis. I hate to break it to you, but a dr’s initial study wouldnt be much more in depth than that. As a typical mom you can’t do much more than that, and doctors simply dont. Parent’s dealing with the case of autism seem like the ONLY ones making scientific studies in the area.

As a mother of two (with an eldest son who is on the autistic spectrum)Im scouring the internet trying to find out what schedual McCarthy and Jim used before my son’s 4 month immunizations. I cant even find it on her website. Does any one have any reccomendations where i can look?

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Jenny is certainly not the first to suggest that parent anecdotal information is scientific evidence, Dr. Blaylock and many others support this view. Poor monkeys chain smoked just so that modern medicine could have PROOF that smoking caused cancer, then the monkeys didn’t even get cancer! “A lie grows and grows until it’s as plain as the nose on your face” - fairy from Pinocchio. I love this quote because it is so true. The CDC has nothing more than a couple sentences to defend themselves against causing the autism epidemic, their few sentences look really stupid among many lengthly studies that have been done that prove otherwise. Their lie is getting more and more obvious.

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As someone else pointed out, immunization only works on mass scales, rarely on an individual infection. They prevent mass epidemics, not single cases.

Your argument on polio is beyond ridiculous anyways. That shit about breastfeeding is totally anecdotal! Did it ever occur to you that those ‘rural communities’ you cited where they breastfed also lacked the complex sanitation systems that actually eradicated our immunities to it? It was the shit they dumped out their windows, not the breastfeeding that helped provide the immunity.

What’s your point anyways? Before the immunizations the cases were less potent because we had an immunity due to exposure? Yeah, so what? Now, with the immunization, it’s GONE. I would rather have a disease eradicated, than for us to just suffer less.

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Your Croatian woman is an adult, correct? She was exposed to TB through other adults, right? In which case, by your own reference, any vaccination would have been variable at best.

So vaccination against TB, in the case you site, wouldn’t have provided an immunity and I’m wondering why you brought it up.

And rottenkitty, are you saying that breast feeding has NOTHING to do with the passing of immunities for polio and its cessation has nothing to do with the epedemic? I notice you refuse to address the salient point of my contention.

With modern sanitation, by your own argument, the virus should have been irradicated just like cholera. It wasn’t. It isn’t. Our exposure to the virus is stymied by our vaccinations, but we used to be largely immune through our mothers through breast milk. The Polio Epidemic, which killed or crippled millions of people, was created by the break in the chain of shared immunities.

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Wikipedia again:

“TB prevention and control takes two parallel approaches. In the first, people with TB and their contacts are identified and then treated. Identification of infections often involves testing high-risk groups for TB. In the second approach, children are vaccinated to protect them from TB. Unfortunately, no vaccine is available that provides reliable protection for adults. However, in tropical areas where the incidence of atypical mycobacteria is high, exposure to nontuberculous mycobacteria gives some protection against TB.[38]

Vaccines

Many countries use BCG vaccine as part of their TB control programs, especially for infants. This was the first vaccine for TB and developed at the Pasteur Institute in France between 1905 and 1921.[39] However, mass vaccination with BCG did not start until after World War II.[40] The protective efficacy of BCG for preventing serious forms of TB (e.g. meningitis) in children is greater than 80%; its protective efficacy for preventing pulmonary TB in adolescents and adults is variable, ranging from 0 to 80%.”

80% in children. She was in the unfortunate 20% - not because she didn’t have the vaccine - but because a group of children from a conservative religious order didn’t have it when they entered her refugee camp. Bottom line - these vaccines are necessary to save lives, and there’s no arguing it.

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It wasn’t breast milk that gave immunity. It was the constant exposure to a pathogen from shit in water.

Yes, terrible science cleaned the shit out of the water so we weren’t also getting cholera, hepatitis A, rotavirus, salmonellosis, along with polio. (Polio is a fecal-mouth transmission.)

Bad, bad science for teaching us not to shit where we drink.

SCIENCE DID NOT CREATE POLIO!!!!!! And you can stand on your head and spin around until you turn blue in the face and it still won’t make it so.

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from wikipedia:

>>Polio epidemics have crippled thousands of people, mostly young children; the disease has caused paralysis and death for much of human history.>The first clinical description was provided by the British physician Michael Underwood in 1789, where he refers to polio as “a debility of the lower extremities”.[76] The work of physicians Jakob Heine in 1840 and Karl Oskar Medin in 1890 led to it being known as Heine-Medin disease.
(snip)
Poorer sanitation of the time resulted in a constant exposure to the virus, which enhanced a natural immunity within the population. In developed countries during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, improvements were made in community sanitation, including better sewage disposal and clean water supplies. These changes drastically increased the proportion of children and adults at risk of paralytic polio infection, by reducing childhood exposure and immunity to the disease.

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I’m puzzled by one of your examples - the woman from Croatia who caught TB from a sect of poeple who did not immunize. As there is not a vaccine for TB that I have ever heard of, how could this Croatian woman’s exposure led to any other outcome through a shot of something?

Not being snarky at all! I’m just very curious. What course of infant and child vaccines can one take to ward off TB? TB is usually treatable, was this religious sect refusing to treat their diseases? If so, then you are talking about a very different circumstance than a communicable childhood illness that has a vaccine.

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Nice lady you are! And obviously you are the ignorant one here.

Polio immunities were passed on in a mother’s breast milk. It was very rare for ppl to get the full blown disease, though they did, before the introduction of bottle feeding.

At the time of the polio epidemic, science and doctors were practically forcing women to bottle feed their children as the healthier alternative. It was a curiosity at the time that the epidemic didn’t seem to spread to poorer countries (where it still existed at a much smaller rate.) Doctors and scientists were very puzzled by it. Guess why - because mothers still breast fed and people were exposed early, while they were being breast fed, inside “dirty” rural environments.

In the Western world, we broke the chain of immunities that made polio infrequent before the 20th century by the elimination of breast feeding for almost an entire generation, so now we need vaccines.

Did polio exist before the 20th century? Sure. But it wasn’t the epidemic which was created by the best efforts of Western science.

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