Comments on: Michael Moore to release next film online for free http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/ Stylish celebrity escapism Tue, 14 Feb 2012 04:23:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Benedicta http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-1276613 Benedicta Wed, 25 Aug 2010 05:27:29 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-1276613 You'll need among all those "share all" buttons so folks can re-post your blog posts to whatever service they need to. You’ll need among all those “share all” buttons so folks can re-post your blog posts to whatever service they need to.

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]]> By: breederina http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95413 breederina Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:02:54 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95413 Scott we must agree to disagree. In the future please stop telling anyone who doesn't share your POV that they're missing the point. I'm not missing your point.I firmly believe all documentaries are hugely influenced by the makers,(or the sponsors), agendas. Whether the viewer catches the degree of bias or not it's still there. As geronimo stated most people who watch Moore's work get where he's coming from. He's certainly not hiding it. There is no such thing as an unbiased documentary just as there are no amounts of bias so small so as to be negligible. I won't even visit the whole China/ Cuba comparison because though Mr. Moore enjoys popularity and a large stature he's hardly a country. Scott we must agree to disagree. In the future please stop telling anyone who doesn’t share your POV that they’re missing the point. I’m not missing your point.I firmly believe all documentaries are hugely influenced by the makers,(or the sponsors), agendas. Whether the viewer catches the degree of bias or not it’s still there. As geronimo stated most people who watch Moore’s work get where he’s coming from. He’s certainly not hiding it.
There is no such thing as an unbiased documentary just as there are no amounts of bias so small so as to be negligible. I won’t even visit the whole China/ Cuba comparison because though Mr. Moore enjoys popularity and a large stature he’s hardly a country.

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]]> By: geronimo http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95282 geronimo Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:07:44 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95282 Agree 100% with breederina at 4:28. Don't see in the least how it matters since most viewers are capable of understanding that his films are his view and will use their own rationale to separate the wood from the trees when it comes to 'bias'. What counts, in Moore's doc-making terms, is that they have enough 'reality' in them to correctly and unsparingly identify corruption in high places. He may be very polarising with his agenda-based approach, but that doesn't change the reality of the contentious issues he shines a light on. His best work IMO remains Roger & Me. Do find him too ready to over-egg the pudding when it comes to making a point though - he did this in spades in Fahrenheit 9/11 and made it a lesser film because of it. And he is prone to sentimentality which also irritates and distracts at times. But, his take-no-prisoners approach is always interesting, have seen everything else he's done, admired a lot of it, and will certainly look out for this. Agree 100% with breederina at 4:28. Don’t see in the least how it matters since most viewers are capable of understanding that his films are his view and will use their own rationale to separate the wood from the trees when it comes to ‘bias’. What counts, in Moore’s doc-making terms, is that they have enough ‘reality’ in them to correctly and unsparingly identify corruption in high places. He may be very polarising with his agenda-based approach, but that doesn’t change the reality of the contentious issues he shines a light on.

His best work IMO remains Roger & Me. Do find him too ready to over-egg the pudding when it comes to making a point though – he did this in spades in Fahrenheit 9/11 and made it a lesser film because of it. And he is prone to sentimentality which also irritates and distracts at times. But, his take-no-prisoners approach is always interesting, have seen everything else he’s done, admired a lot of it, and will certainly look out for this.

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]]> By: Scott F. http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95227 Scott F. Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:45:17 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95227 Again, you're entirely missing the point. It's a question of degrees, not absolutes. Your entire argument boils down to your assumption that because ANY bias exists, an excessive amount is just as tolerable as a small amount. I'm saying that when bias exceeds a certain level, it's disingenuous to keep calling it a documentary. For instance; while the History Channel might be slightly biased towards an American point of view on history, they are willing to showcase both sides of an issue like the Vietnam War or World War II. You regularly see interviews with Japanese or German soldiers, as well as North Vietnamese. You get both sides of the story. While atrocities like firebombing and American internment camps aren't exactly front and center, they are acknowledged and spoken about freely. Now look at a country like China or Cuba. They're only offered a point of view that paints the State in a positive light, and you won't see anything from the 'other side's' point of view. That's what makes one history, and the other propaganda. Again, it's a question of degree. When you set out from the very beginning to prove a specific point of view (guns are bad, govt. health care is good, ect.) then you've gone beyond the realm of documenting something, and stepped into the realm of influencing it. I have NO problem with any person engaging in their God-given right to free speech, I just believe he needs to label it properly. Again, you’re entirely missing the point. It’s a question of degrees, not absolutes. Your entire argument boils down to your assumption that because ANY bias exists, an excessive amount is just as tolerable as a small amount.

I’m saying that when bias exceeds a certain level, it’s disingenuous to keep calling it a documentary. For instance; while the History Channel might be slightly biased towards an American point of view on history, they are willing to showcase both sides of an issue like the Vietnam War or World War II. You regularly see interviews with Japanese or German soldiers, as well as North Vietnamese. You get both sides of the story. While atrocities like firebombing and American internment camps aren’t exactly front and center, they are acknowledged and spoken about freely.

Now look at a country like China or Cuba. They’re only offered a point of view that paints the State in a positive light, and you won’t see anything from the ‘other side’s’ point of view. That’s what makes one history, and the other propaganda. Again, it’s a question of degree.

When you set out from the very beginning to prove a specific point of view (guns are bad, govt. health care is good, ect.) then you’ve gone beyond the realm of documenting something, and stepped into the realm of influencing it. I have NO problem with any person engaging in their God-given right to free speech, I just believe he needs to label it properly.

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]]> By: breederina http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95217 breederina Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:05:33 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95217 Scott if you honestly believe that History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Animal Planet don't have an agenda and are serving up "hard fact" you my boy are in for some big surprises. I'm not saying their programming is not informative, educational and at times delightful, it certainly is. I am saying that there is no such thing as unbiased documentary. As for high school speech, sorry to disappoint but it wasn't offered at my high school. High school however was a long time ago and I've learned since then that the most persuasive speeches are the ones with the most verifiable information. Michael Moore earns a B+ to date. John McCain and that horrible woman a D. May I humbly suggest you Scott F. grab your camera and go out and make a 3 minute doc on anything . The moment you pick a topic your bias has begun, but what the heck keep going. See you on utube. One last thing : it has been established that even on the sub atomic level, the act of observation alters the thing observed. Repeat as a mantra Scotty. Happy filming. Scott if you honestly believe that History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Animal Planet don’t have an agenda and are serving up “hard fact” you my boy are in for some big surprises. I’m not saying their programming is not informative, educational and at times delightful, it certainly is. I am saying that there is no such thing as unbiased documentary.
As for high school speech, sorry to disappoint but it wasn’t offered at my high school. High school however was a long time ago and I’ve learned since then that the most persuasive speeches are the ones with the most verifiable information.
Michael Moore earns a B+ to date. John McCain and that horrible woman a D.
May I humbly suggest you Scott F. grab your camera and go out and make a 3 minute doc on anything . The moment you pick a topic your bias has begun, but what the heck keep going.
See you on utube.
One last thing : it has been established that even on the sub atomic level, the act of observation alters the thing observed. Repeat as a mantra Scotty. Happy filming.

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]]> By: Scott F. http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95147 Scott F. Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:44:57 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95147 Breederina - We're talking about two entirely different things. It's my firm belief that ANY conscious bias on the part of the filmmaker negates a film's status as a documentary. A true documentary is like a true scientific investigation - a thorough examination of the facts with an impartial and dispassionate eye, in order to find the truth. What you believe at the start of that search shouldn't effect the outcome. Especially when your views cause you to be so blinded to the issue that you present an incomplete and inherently skewed viewpoint. Instead of enrolling myself in a doc film class, maybe you should repeat high school Speech. Did they not cover the difference between an informative speech and a persuasive speech? That's the difference here. He's not strictly informing you of the facts - he's giving you ONLY the facts that support his position and trying to convince you he's right. Putting on those kind of blinders is what leads a man to trumpet Cuba's health care system while completely ignoring the moral and societal costs the Cuban people have paid for it. I love documentaries - I believe that widespread consumption of things like the History Channel, Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, ect. is doing as much for global education as the internet. We just need to draw distinctions between opinion and hard fact. Breederina – We’re talking about two entirely different things. It’s my firm belief that ANY conscious bias on the part of the filmmaker negates a film’s status as a documentary.

A true documentary is like a true scientific investigation – a thorough examination of the facts with an impartial and dispassionate eye, in order to find the truth. What you believe at the start of that search shouldn’t effect the outcome.

Especially when your views cause you to be so blinded to the issue that you present an incomplete and inherently skewed viewpoint. Instead of enrolling myself in a doc film class, maybe you should repeat high school Speech. Did they not cover the difference between an informative speech and a persuasive speech? That’s the difference here.

He’s not strictly informing you of the facts – he’s giving you ONLY the facts that support his position and trying to convince you he’s right. Putting on those kind of blinders is what leads a man to trumpet Cuba’s health care system while completely ignoring the moral and societal costs the Cuban people have paid for it.

I love documentaries – I believe that widespread consumption of things like the History Channel, Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, ect. is doing as much for global education as the internet. We just need to draw distinctions between opinion and hard fact.

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]]> By: breederina http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95139 breederina Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:28:06 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95139 Some of you need to take a doc film class. Please name one decent documentary that didn't have a POV behind it. I agree the medium lends itself extremely well to showcasing the makers agenda but Michael Moore is hardly Leni Riefenstahl. All media and art contain both conscious and unconscious bias. I imagine this was true when Mongo was painting his hunt on the cave wall and I know it's true now.Scott F. your ideal of striving for truth w/o regard for personal belief while noble is impossible. Belief makes for passion and passion fuels the very best work.Okay, also some of the worst, (cough Mel Gibson cough ), but if you believe in what you're doing, even if you fail, you've stayed true. Fortunately for Michael Moore a lot of people share his vision and he's very entertaining in conveying it. Some of you need to take a doc film class. Please name one decent documentary that didn’t have a POV behind it. I agree the medium lends itself extremely well to showcasing the makers agenda but Michael Moore is hardly Leni Riefenstahl. All media and art contain both conscious and unconscious bias. I imagine this was true when Mongo was painting his hunt on the cave wall and I know it’s true now.Scott F. your ideal of striving for truth w/o regard for personal belief while noble is impossible. Belief makes for passion and passion fuels the very best work.Okay, also some of the worst, (cough Mel Gibson cough ), but if you believe in what you’re doing, even if you fail, you’ve stayed true.
Fortunately for Michael Moore a lot of people share his vision and he’s very entertaining in conveying it.

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]]> By: Diva http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95133 Diva Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:14:45 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95133 Yeah... like Borat! Yeah… like Borat!

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]]> By: Scott F. http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95127 Scott F. Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:59:34 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95127 My problem with Mikey is the same problem a lot of people have, and it never gets discussed anymore: he uses the term 'documentary' to refer to the films he makes. That's like calling the op/ed section 'news'. His numbers aren't always accurate, but I will give him credit for getting it right most of the time. But I think we can all agree that the premise of a documentary should be striving for the truth, regardless of your personal belief. For Michael Moore, his personal belief seems to be his starting place, and he moves on from there to try and prove it. When people or facts disagree with that point of view, they're either glossed over or ignored completely. That's not a documentary, or news, or even necessarily true. It's a video blog - and it should be understood as such. My problem with Mikey is the same problem a lot of people have, and it never gets discussed anymore: he uses the term ‘documentary’ to refer to the films he makes. That’s like calling the op/ed section ‘news’.

His numbers aren’t always accurate, but I will give him credit for getting it right most of the time. But I think we can all agree that the premise of a documentary should be striving for the truth, regardless of your personal belief.

For Michael Moore, his personal belief seems to be his starting place, and he moves on from there to try and prove it. When people or facts disagree with that point of view, they’re either glossed over or ignored completely.

That’s not a documentary, or news, or even necessarily true. It’s a video blog – and it should be understood as such.

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]]> By: Shane http://www.celebitchy.com/13998/michael_moore_to_release_next_film_online_for_free/#comment-95082 Shane Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:52:48 +0000 http://www.celebitchy.com/?p=13998#comment-95082 Love him or hate him, Michael Moore genuinely believes in the causes he supports. In other words, he's not a fake like most politicians and celebrities. He's sincere. He truly believes in the messages he delivers in his films. And, he typically sides with the working class underdog rather than the corporate pit bulls. Love him or hate him, Michael Moore genuinely believes in the causes he supports.

In other words, he’s not a fake like most politicians and celebrities.

He’s sincere. He truly believes in the messages he delivers in his films.

And, he typically sides with the working class underdog rather than the corporate pit bulls.

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