Helen Mirren: Female juries won’t convict rapists due to sexual jealousy


I don’t really get Helen Mirren. In many interviews, she comes across as thoughtful, intelligent and refreshingly candid. Sometimes, though, she talks a little too much and reveals some deep-seated issues that she seems both unable to work through and keep quiet about.

In September Mirren told an interviewer that she was date raped “a couple of times” as a young woman. She made controversial statements in that interview including a much-talked about claim that victims of date rape couldn’t take men to court for it “under those circumstances.” I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, like she was saying the system was broken and not that victims weren’t entitled to justice, but she also claimed that she didn’t think Mike Tyson was a rapist. In 1991 Tyson was convicted of raping an 18 year-old beauty pageant contestant that had gone to his hotel room. He served three years out of a six year sentence.

Helen tried to do some damage control after that interview came out. She issued a statement that she didn’t retract any of her statements or dispute that she said that, but asked people to read the whole interview before jumping to conclusions.

Instead of doing the wise thing and not talking about an issue that’s understandably troubling to her and about which she holds opinions that many people find offensive, Mirren has opened that can of worms again. She told an interviewer for the Sunday Times that women on juries in date rape cases would generally side for the woman because they’re “sexually jealous” and think she was “asking for it.” She launched into this strange diatribe right after talking about how she’s wary of female journalists and think they have it in for other women:

“No, it’s more that I prefer male journalists because there’s a streak of female journalism — the bitches — who are mean-spirited and nasty because you are another woman and want to make you feel crap. It’s very upsetting. I’m more careful when I’m being interviewed by a woman because, from experience as well as reading articles about other women, I know there is a little stiletto knife hidden behind the back.”

She’s laughing as she sizes me up. But she’s right. On the whole, women don’t like other women, because women are competitive with each other. She says: “In a rape case the courts in defence of a man would select as many women as they could for the jury, because women go against women. Whether in a deep-seated animalistic way, going back billions of years, or from a sense of tribal jealousy or just antagonism, I don’t know. But other women on a rape case would say she was asking for it. The only reason I can think of is that they’re sexually jealous.”

We’ve gone from talk of loving women to hating women in just a few seconds. We talk about jurors in rape cases saying the victim “asked for it”. “Yes. That is terribly unfair. And that used to happen, didn’t it, in those days.” She says this with concern, perhaps even empathy.

She has said in the past that when she was forced to have sex against her will it was the lethal result of a combination of feminism — not wanting to be a victim — and innocence — not knowing how not to be a victim. She has said that it wasn’t about just saying no, because the man wouldn’t take no for an answer. When you see Mirren as vulnerable, it skews your judgment of her and you understand all those layers of confidence that have appeared over the years and how they could be torn away very quickly.

Did she learn to be more confrontational? “No, I am not confrontational at all. I met a great guy, then another great guy, and had a series of fantastic relationships with nice men.” And that healed her. “Until that point I was thinking men were horrible; they were boring, boorish, vulgar, selfish and arrogant. Then I met a guy who was funny and lovely to me and I loved him. That was Ken, my first boyfriend. I learnt from wonderful men, wonderful relationships. They gave me support, made me feel good and made me laugh. Now I think men are absolutely great.”

She’s quick to agree that her early antipathy towards men is because she went to an all-girls school. “Absolutely. I don’t blame it. But I was 18, suddenly in London, and I’d never been out past 11 at night before. I never thought, ‘I will never have sex till I get married,’ because I never wanted to get married. So sex was on the cards, but I wanted it to be incredibly romantic. I decided it had to be snowing.” And was it? “No, of course not. It was probably a disgusting rainy night, but I can’t remember.” Was it with some random boy? “Yes.” Did you ever see him again? “I don’t want to talk about that. Sorry.”

Suddenly the air is thick with imaginary needles of pain. What did she learn from that experience? “I didn’t learn anything. I learn from the positive, not from the negative, but I do believe in getting on with it. Taking responsibility for yourself and not blaming other people is an incredibly important thing.”

[From Timesonline.co.uk]

Reading what she said in context, you can see that she’s still in a lot of emotional turmoil over what happened to her and is making sense of it by focusing on what she can control by demonizing other women. You can’t tell someone to “get over” a terrible experience like that, and you can’t reason with them that it’s illogical and self-defeating to blame people who had nothing to do with it, but she should really learn not to talk about it to journalists. It’s just something that she’s still dealing with and isn’t ready to share.

The Daily Mail quotes British Labour politician Vera Baird as refuting Mirren’s assertion that any side in a UK case can influence jury selection, and says “This is just such an ignorant thing to say, to suggest that the defence or prosecution have any involvement in the selection of a jury.”

Helen Mirren is shown out in London on 10/11/08. Credit: Bauergriffinonline

You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.

35 Responses to “Helen Mirren: Female juries won’t convict rapists due to sexual jealousy”

Comments are Closed

We close comments on older posts to fight comment spam.

  1. xiaoecho says:

    SHUT UP!NO-ONE CARES!JUST SHUT THE FUKC UP!!!! 😡

  2. geronimo says:

    😯 She seems to be locked in some terrible timewarp. Or has such bad relationships with other women that she honestly believes what she’s saying, that women – particularly in the case of female jurors – are incapable of objectivity. WTF??

    She really needs to stop talking. Or restrict it to in private and with a counsellor.

  3. Lauri says:

    There is something wrong with this woman…!

  4. Mairead says:

    I just read the whole Times interview – the pair of them (mirren and interviewer alike) sound as odd as each other. The interviewer did note that she constantly contradicted herself, perhaps her self-doubt over her career is more than that and she doesn’t trust her opinion either and just vacillates between the last two opinions she’s heard?

    I don’t think it’s just female journos who can be catty – just ask Jo Brand. There were some male reviewers who used to skewer her just because they didn’t find her attractive.

    As for the jury issue, there was a study done recently on the attitudes of young people and teenagers, and unfortunately those old “asking for it” stereotypes haven’t gone away, but it was prevalent in both genders.

  5. Kaiser says:

    Oh Lord. Why oh why did Dame Helen start up again? Agree Mairead & Geronimo – maybe it’s a generational thing? 😯

    If I was a prosecutor trying a rape case, I would want to only pick mothers and fathers of *only* daughters for the jury.

  6. Alexis says:

    I can’t imagine that women are sexually jealous of rape vicyims but,I think she’s right about how women behave to one another. Especially in stressful situations. Some women are terrible to eachother. They are so awful that they give all of us a reputation of behaving jealous.
    It’s especially prevelant in the work ethic of many women. Have you ever worked for a woman like that? I have, and let me tell you, it’s fing torture.

  7. Syko says:

    What she is saying is so wrong on so many counts I don’t want to even discuss it, except to say that it’s not really generational, because she’s my generation and I don’t feel like that at all. I do agree that women have a tendency to be the more evil sex, but I also think a lot of us have empathy and caring for other women.

    I do think the “caught in time warp” thing may be her problem. People USED TO believe like she does. I can recall my grandmother saying that if girls don’t want to be raped, they shouldn’t wear sexy clothes, and I’m thinking “But Grandma, that’s wrong – nobody should have the right to rape you, even if you’re walking around naked”. But that was the general thinking some 40-50 years ago, and Dame Mirren seems to be holding onto it. And to the belief that rape is a sexual action, when in reality it is a violent action.

    It would be nice if she’d just shut up.

  8. Tess says:

    Oy Vey.

  9. Elin says:

    She certainly has a point about some women being bitchy to one another, especially in the media. Look at how much crap that’s put on women! Who gets the blame if a man decides to separate from his wife and carry on with someone else? Yes, the “other woman”. If you have any doubt about this, or don’t think that “sexual jealosy” exists, just look up press coverage of Sienna Miller. It comes from men too.
    The “asking for it” concept is not limited to a gender or generation unfortunatly.

  10. Jerkweed says:

    She’s right about one thing: women are worse than men when it comes to competing with each other and sniping behind the back.

  11. Kristin says:

    This makes her sound senile or something. I’m not trying to be mean, but the stuff she says, does she realize what she is saying? Well, this isn’t the first time she said something stupid/insulting, and it probably won’t be the last.

  12. kate says:

    she’s blaming feminism for being raped? how about blaming the guy who raped her? sounds like she needs some counseling. but until then she needs to stop talking about anything other than acting.

  13. KPod says:

    There is probably a subset of women that are as evil as she suggests, but it seems to me that most of this spool of nonsense from Dame Mirren stems from some PTSD unresolved after her early date-rape experiences. And probably some unsympathetic females at the time. But she absolutely should not generalize from a personal experience to the whole of womankind!

  14. KateNonymous says:

    It’s strange–it almost sounds as if she’s describing attitudes in the past (not that they’re gone, but they aren’t as prevalent as they used to be), but then a second later she’s talking about present-day attitudes as if they’re exactly the same. I wonder if she’s trying to work through this in interviews and expressing herself badly, because it doesn’t entirely make sense. It’s not just that I disagree with her (which I do) but the way she’s saying it doesn’t seem to track.

  15. Suz says:

    She is a sad cow who enjoys saying stupid things to wind people up. She is also her own #1 fan and thinks very highly of herself. By saying and doing ridiculous things she is assured of publicity.

  16. Cinderella says:

    It’s an awful topic, but I’ve often wondered if male jurors would be more apt to side with the man in those types of cases.

  17. MissSmilla says:

    I do think that many women, especially those who haven’t been raped, often feel like the rape survivor must have done something to incite, or did not do enough to prevent, the rape. This is especially true of older women. And many women of an older generation who have been raped were made to feel it was their fault in some way, so they accept the blame, and continue to blame other rape survivors.

  18. vdantev says:

    This isn’t the first stupid thing about rape or s*x crimes to vomit out of her mouth, is it ? GD Helen, don’t make me hate you.

  19. actingrc says:

    i do understand what she’s saying about older feminism and rape though. the slogans were just not that helpful. there hadn’t been (and really still isn’t) much education of men. and the women’s movement hadn’t yet spent much time on useful ways to help women protect themselves. all they had was the word ‘no’, which, though it should be a magic word, just isn’t.

  20. devilgirl says:

    Old bag nut job. STFU!

  21. angel says:

    I am probably old enough to be most of your Mama’s and want you to know that when I went through my executive training in the late about 1968 at one of the very large and still standing corporations our trainer, the venerable Ms.____, told us that a woman could never be raped…that in the end they would enjoy it.

    I remember that there was a stunned silence, not so much for the enjoy it part of the comment, but for the fact that she actually discussed rape!

    So much baggage, such small backs!

  22. Christina says:

    oh wow, i can’t believe a seemingly wise woman would say these things… especially being that she was raped… BY A MALE… you’d think she would harbor more resentment toward males (if any at all). yikes…

    i really abhor that stereotype about women being “bitches”. i know for a fact that when i need emotional support, i usually approach a female… my mother, cousin, friend… whatever… the sexist stereotype is ridiculous… if we were to look at facts, men are even more competitive and sometimes violently so… but bringing that sort of crap up doesn’t help the situation it just pisses people off… grrrr….

    and nobody is jealous of an old hag so she can rest assured… *eyeroll*

  23. JaundiceMachine says:

    I can’t wrap my mind around such hateful words without coffee, so I’ll offer up the wise insight of one of my favorite TV personalities, Buster Bluth; “Like anyone would want to R her!”

  24. RAN says:

    Is she getting senile? No one in their right mind says stuff like this… Do they? 😯

  25. gee_gee says:

    Sister has some issues with women, clearly. I don’t doubt that there are some women who are mean to other women, but I don’t believe it is any more than men who are mean to women. Or even men who are mean to each other. Or women who are mean to men. Where was I…?

    Oh. She sounds like she had dealt with some shitty people in her life. For that I am truly sorry but she seriously needs to get some therapy or stow it.

    She still looks great in a bikini and is still a brilliant actress.

  26. yadira says:

    Woman are jealous of each other? Woman can be catty but this is regarding a rape that she is talking about not a sale on shoes! So ignorant

  27. Buttercup says:

    Wow, best thing you can do now Helen is shut the hell up!

  28. DD says:

    hmm I think that women who feel that other women are catty and ready to stab you in the back are actually the ones who exemplify that behaviour. Maybe they just were never able to establish healthy relationships with other females? Or didn’t know how to make true friendships? It’s funny Helen has such a negative opinion about females especially since she was actually victimized by males 🙁
    I for one really sympathize with other females. When it comes to rape, I don’t care about the circumstances, noone asks for it. I’m offended she feels that way.

  29. CB Rawks says:

    Helen Mirren is a terrible disappointment. She seemed so smart and sensible, until we got to know her.
    I am more disappointed by her pile of bullshit than by anyone else I can think of just now, even Mel Gibson and Michael Richards.

  30. Vex says:

    And to think I thought she was a great person when I saw her on Top Gear.

  31. Aspen says:

    I didn’t get the same vibe off that interview, I guess. I saw the headline on this, and I rolled my eyes thinking, “Good Good, what did she say NOW?”

    But after reading the article, I don’t think she meant what we all apparently think she did.

    She clearly has sadness and pain from the past, and though I think she’s bonkers for feeling that women are sexually jealous of rape victims (I tend more often to think that if a female jurist votes not guilty it’s because she felt there was lack of truth in the rape claim…not woman hating), I don’t think she meant what she said the way it sounded….ha ha. If you follow me.

    She really needs to keep her mouth shut about rape and sexual assault.

  32. Trashaddict says:

    I agree her comments about female juries were goofy, but it’s kind of ironic, given what she said about women being hard on women, the general tone of the posts here (OK, assumption that a fair number of you posters are female?)! Hello! Take a look at your own behavior, case in point!
    I can kind of understand what she’s saying about sort-of-but-not-really-consensual sex. I remember feeling at the time (70s in my case, and I don’t think I was unique) that virginity was a weight that needed to be cast off. See, if you can rationalize that you agreed to it, then maybe you were in control. Of course nobody young (or maybe old for that matter) is really in control when it comes to sex. That’s what makes it so hard to talk about….

  33. Paulette says:

    Trashaddict, yeah, I just noticed all the catty comments from other women as well. We’re looking at several screenfulls of support for Hellen’s point about women being nasty to each other.

    The header for this post is VERY misleading. Hellen made a guess as to why women jurors won’t always side with other women. Those of you who assumed she said “women ask for it” didn’t read the article.

    It IS hard to get a rape conviction, but according to the FBI stats, something like 1/3 of all women in the US are sexually assaulted at some point (if memory serves). So something is going on with juries. I think Hellen’s guess is wrong, but I’m glad she’s opening the discussion.

  34. Sorry Y'all says:

    I’m sorry other women. I totally agree with her. I honestly in my heart of hearts think that women are out to get me.

  35. Mirtha says:

    I actually love my own boyfriend sooo much and moreover he is indeed gorgeous for me. I have a passion for pretty much everything that is related to him. The only problem though, is he is friends with far too many young women and I hate knowing that he has been speaking with a number of ladies besides me. I hate being jealous. I’m trying to just ignore the jealousy but I can’t. Please help me out. Thanks.