Model Robyn Lawley is not a fan of the ‘real women have curves’ brigade

Robyn Lawley

Last September, we discussed how Ralph Lauren had hired its first plus-sized model, Robyn Lawley. Although I suspect that some of you may have forgotten who she is already since the “bigger” models don’t receive nearly as much consistent attention as their “smaller” counterparts. Of course, Robyn isn’t truly plus-sized by everyday, human standards but by fashion industry-dictated ones. She’s 6’2″ and a size 12 and is one of the busiest models for her agency, Milk Management. If none of this rings a bell, then here’s an easy way to get to know and love Robyn Lawley: She has a Tumblr blog, RobynLawleyEats, that is strictly made up of photos of her scrumptuous-looking meals. She’s also got a cookbook on the way, a (true) plus-sized swimsuit line (for women up to size 24) and has graced the covers of several magazines, including Italian Vogue.

Yet Robyn isn’t content to be something of a pioneer in the contemporary modelling world. Now she’s talking about how she doesn’t want to be spoken of as a “figurehead” if that means people are putting curvy women ahead of skinny ones. She argues that all body types should be celebrated, and body shaming of all types should be obliterated. Here are some excerpts from Robyn’s interview with The Guardian:

Robyn Lawley

On her weight struggles: “I tried to be a straight model for a while. But I’d arrive at castings, aged 19, and it would be immediately obvious that I was much bigger than the other girls and wasn’t going to get the job.” Like many aspiring models, she managed to battle her way down to a size 6-8 (a dubious goal for someone who is 6ft 2in), but found maintaining this weight a miserable and ultimately futile endeavour. One day, an art director recommended an agency specialising in larger models (anything over a size 10), and “they believed in me straight away.”

“Plus-sized” models are not enough: “I feel terrible for the size 22s, 24s, who never see a woman in the public eye who represents their size, or modelling the clothes they’re being asked to buy. I hate it, but I have to remind myself that this is a start. I’m helping in a small way to move things on.”

The fashion industry is clueless: In June 2011, Lawley, Tara Lynn and Candice Huffine became the first plus-sized models to appear on the cover of [Italian] Vogue. They wore designer lingerie and $30,000 Gucci and Dior dresses that “had to be cut up on the day because none of them fitted us. No one there had ever worked with anyone even close to our size before. No one knew what to do with us.”

Growing up in Australia: “I love my country, but I come from a suburb that’s nowhere special in western Sydney.” Her father is a fireman; her mother helps out at a centre for disabled people. “I’ve always worked, from the age of 13, because I was desperate to earn my own money. Seeing how little my dad was paid for what is a hero’s job made me want more from life. My parents encouraged that, totally.” She finished high school and went to live in France, without a word of French under her belt. Seduced by the cuisine, she gained “loads of weight” fast.

Curves aren’t the only way to go: Lawley finds the “real women have curves” brigade patronising and unhelpful. “People use me as a figurehead, and to me that misses the point and is blatantly offensive to thin women — my sister, for one. Curves don’t epitomise a woman. Saying, ‘Skinny is ugly’ should be no more acceptable than saying fat is. I find all this stuff a very controlling and effective way of making women obsess over their weight, instead of exploiting their more important attributes, such as intellect, strength and power. We could be getting angry about unequal pay and unequal opportunities, but we’re too busy being told we’re not thin enough or curvy enough. We’re holding ourselves back.”

Variety is key: “Look at fashion shows. We need a range of ages and ethnicities. There are just very thin, white, 16-year-old girls on the catwalk and that has to change.” In a very literal demonstration of the higher value society puts on slim women, Lawley has often discovered that she is earning much less than the “straight-sized” girl on the same job. “There’s a sense of, ‘Oh, she won’t expect as much money.’ I am not accepting that.”

On body image for young girls: “I’ve seen the magazines, the TV shows, the celebrity articles, the same as everyone else. I’m not immune just because I’m a model. And I know they have a devastating effect on young girls. Don’t use the words fat, skinny or diet. Tell your daughter constantly that you love her body the way it is.”

[From The Guardian]

You know what? Robyn might be “just a model,” but she seems like an intelligent and extremely well-spoken woman as well. She is absolutely correct about the equal-opportunity offensiveness of both the fashion industry and the “real women have curves” crowds. I honestly don’t know if the latter group realizes how upsetting their comments can be to those women who aren’t curvy, or if they realize what they’re saying and just don’t mind offending people who happen to be skinny because — let’s face it — society as a whole is kinder to thin people. Either way, this isn’t an argument that will be solved anytime soon, but it sure would be nice if any type of body shaming came to an eventual end.

Here’s some more photos of Robyn on various red carpets over the past year. She’s so gorgeous.

Robyn Lawley

Robyn Lawley

Robyn Lawley

Photos courtesy of WENN

 

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88 Responses to “Model Robyn Lawley is not a fan of the ‘real women have curves’ brigade”

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  1. amilu says:

    She’s one of the few female ‘celebrities’ that I follow her on Facebook, and she has a really refreshing and friendly public personality. I think she’s devastatingly beautiful.

  2. Hubbahun says:

    How the frig is she ‘plus-sized’ in a sane world?!?!?

  3. Arie says:

    She is right. I get sooo tired of other women and people trying to put down the naturally thin girls. An example would be Zoe Saldana. Zoe has always been slim and always will be. She is just as beautiful. I didn’t know a size defined a woman. Women come in different shapes and sizes. Petite and short. Tall and skinny. Or a little in between. Telling someone to “eat more” is just as offensive as ” you are fat”.

    • MistyNinja says:

      do you really think zoe looks naturally thin? That is not a healthy thin body. What you just did just contributes to society thinking someone that underweight is normal and obtainable for people that eat healthy. Sure I do not know her, but I know biology. I am not saying eat more is not offensive. Lying about eating is offensive too. Telling someone to eat more is not even close in our society as degrading as you are fat.

      • Jamie says:

        Yes, it is. I’m a naturally thin person and it is completely offensive for people to make blanket judgments without knowing a person’s history. Saying “you need to eat more” or “eat a burger” is JUST AS OFFENSIVE as saying “you’re fat.” Neither is acceptable, you shouldn’t have to tear down thin people to build up women who aren’t thin and vice versa. Some of us thin people eat constantly and are medically or physically unable to gain weight no matter how much we eat.

    • alxandra says:

      you missed the point by a yard

  4. It'sJustBlanche says:

    Well she’s awesome.

  5. Sixer says:

    Could someone tell me what a US size 12 is in UK sizes?

    • Lucrezia says:

      US 12 = UK 14 = Aus 16.

      But don’t forget she’s 6’2! If she was 5’4, it’d probably be more like 6/8/10

      (I’m used to translating into Aussie, and then into short-ass.)

    • Sixer says:

      Freakin’ Ada! Plus size!

      I’m 5ft 8in and have always weighed between 115 and 120 pounds. I’ve never made a normal BMI. My entire life, I’ve been dogged by people saying I needed to put on weight. It can’t be helped: I eat well, I exercise; I’m just a natural skinny rat.

      I fear for women if this gal is plus size.

      (Thanks, Lucrezia).

    • Lucrezia says:

      What are you guys who say US 12 = UK 16 basing that on?

      I use 4-6/6-8/8-10 (US/UK/Aus) when buying clothing online, and it usually works (some stores/lines are just weird, so it’s never 100%, but I find it the best starting point). So if you’re just basing it on what you’ve heard, I’m going to quibble. However I’m only buying for me and my personal size, so I guess it could change for different sizes (higher or lower).

      I’m just curious if that’s what 12/16′s are finding works in practice, or if you’re all just repeating a rule of thumb you heard somewhere.

      • happyhatparade says:

        I think it’s either two or four numbers difference, depending on where you shop… The official difference is four, I think. So, a US size 0 is a UK size 4.

        However, that’s pretty meaningless considering the wide variation of sizes in different shops (and, in the shops, the variation in sizes between clothes and styles).

        My UK size 8 top says ‘US 4′ in the label. But, another UK size 8 top I have says ‘US 6′ in the label.

        *brain explodes*

  6. Call Me Al says:

    I like and agree with her point about body obsession taking us away from the real issues women could be focusing on such as equal pay and elimination of discrimination.

  7. blue marie says:

    she’s right, we shouldn’t be shaming anyone’s body big or small.

  8. Jessica says:

    Society is kinder to attractive slim people. It is not particularly kind to the very, very thin. There’s a world of difference between the commentary on say, VS models like Kerr, Lima etc., and high fashion catwalk models. The former are treated as desirable and beautiful, the latter are treated as freakish and sex-less.

    That’s why phrases like ‘real women have curves’ are so hurtful. That doesn’t sting if you’re a cute size 0 girl with boobs and a butt, it hurts the awkward 15yr old girl cruelly nicknamed Skeletor who’s a foot taller than all the boys in her class. It tells her she isn’t normal, or attractive, or desirable.

    • Hypocrisy says:

      it hurts the awkward 15yr old girl cruelly nicknamed Skeletor who’s a foot taller than all the boys in her class. It tells her she isn’t normal, or attractive, or desirable.
      —————————————–
      And put her right at the long row of fannatics of plastic surgeries to get breast implants, booty implants before they even reach 18 years of age !

    • Sixer says:

      What Jessica said. I speak from (long ago, admittedly) experience about being the freak tall skinny kid in school.

  9. Anne De Vries says:

    She seems to have a solid head on her shoulders in a crazy industry. And I agree – who gets to decide what makes a woman ‘real’? Real women have BODIES, in all shapes and sizes, and one is not more real than the other. Body shaming is bad in any direction.

  10. In the pic with the black dress she looks about the same size as me (6) so I wonder if she’s really as big as she says.. But then again it might be her height that makes her look thinner?

    • Lucrezia says:

      It’s definitely her height throwing you off.

      I’m a similar shape, and I’d be size 6 in the US … but I’m only 5’4. I have a friend who’s 5’11, and only looks a smidgeon curvier than I do. I’m forever assuming she’ll just be one size larger than me (say an 8 US) and then being shocked when it turns out she’s actually a US 12. Those extra inches are really deceptive.

  11. allons-y alonso says:

    Love a fellow Western Sydney girl!!!!!!!!

  12. Maria says:

    she is right. i wonder why so many people dont get it. i understand that if you are curvy and people said you are fat that you are hurt but that doesnt mean its the right way to shame skinny women than as some kind of revenge.
    its pretty common. i read a lot of “natalie portman/emma watson/michelle williams have the bodies of 8 year old boys”. thats not nice and certainly meant to take their feminity away.

    in the end it only makes ALL women sad except for the women cashing in on your body issues. they are happy when they look at their back accounts.

    • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

      I once posted that it was crazy for people to be saying a certain model was “too fat” to be a swimsuit model because she’s very, very slightly curvy. I said something like “women have curves and they should be proud of them.” In no way was I trying to shame skinny women, I was just trying to point out that our society was sick to say this very fit, slender woman was fat. I was bombarded with replies that I was being mean to skinny women everywhere and should celebrate all body types, etc. Now I am careful to say “some” women have curves, and I get their point to some degree, and I do think we should celebrate all body types and not shame anyone.
      But being overweight in our society carries a lot more burdens than being thin. People think you’re lazy, that you lack self control, that you have emotional problems, that you’re even unclean. It’s not the same thing, and I’m sure I’ll get bombarded again for this, but I’m tired of thin people saying it is. Would you trade your body for someone’s who weighed 275 pounds? Do you think the shaming would be the same? I don’t.

      • Jenny says:

        @GoodNamesAllTaken, I totally agree. I completely understand that body shaming anyone is wrong and hurtful. I just can’t get to the point where I can agree that the derision or cruelty toward women who are “too thin” and “too heavy” are exactly the same. (Quotes because I don’t like using those terms. I think if you are healthy, there really isn’t anything else left to talk about.) Thin is still something to be aspired to, at least in the US; you can never be too thin, too rich, yada yada…
        On another note, I wish there was a saying more like “real women embrace their shape…” But that isn’t so catchy I guess.

      • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

        @Jenny
        Actually, I think “real woman embrace their shape” is perfect. Maybe someday that will be the message.

      • Jo 'Mama' Besser says:

        You’re right. The end.

  13. squirrelbait says:

    I love those pics of her in the black dress with the hat. Reminds me of all the super models in the 90s. Absolutely gorgeous!

  14. Vee says:

    She is a breath of fresh air. Her body is perfect!

  15. Shelley says:

    Kudos to her. Body-shaming of skinny people is one of the reasons I hate Jennifer Lawrence for example. She had some distateful interview where she wanted brownie points for being an actress ‘who eats” -___-.

  16. mkyarwood says:

    If the fashion/marketing of fashion didn’t exist, we wouldn’t be any ‘size’. The parameters are changed ALL THE TIME and rarely are sizes the same or even similar across the board. There are models of larger sizes out there, but the fact remains it costs a lot more to make clothes for larger women based solely on needing more fabric. The whole thing is a sh*t show.

    • MBP says:

      I doubt it’s only about fabric cost. There is much more variety in the body shape of a larger person than a slimmer person (pears/apples/big arms/big bust etc etc, everyone carries differently) which makes defining a pattern harder.

      It annoys me that the designers don’t even try though. It’s kinda their job?!

      • happyhatparade says:

        Exactly – when you consider the variety of body shapes available in the world, then I guess you could see why fashion designers would prefer to work with the least available variety possible.

        And yeah, it’s lazy. Like, you put so much thought into combining colours and textures and stitching and whatever. You can’t think how to make some trousers that feel comfortable and flattering on those of us with bellies?!! Is it that difficult? People who make their own clothes can figure it out, why can’t you?!

  17. mytbean says:

    I’ve never known an athletic person to have these body image issues. Tall, short, thick wasted, pear shaped, v-shaped… whatever. If they’re able to use their body to its full potential in activities that make them feel great then it seems that this whole – am I skinny/curvy enough idea is irrelevant to them.

    I don’t know why – maybe they see past the sales pitch. Or maybe the pitch just doesn’t matter as long as they *feel* good?

    • winnei says:

      what do you mean by an “athletic person”?

      i assume you are not including dancers, gymnasts, ice-skaters or swimmers who all seem to be riddled with body image issues.

      if you mean team sports playing types then perhaps… but remember girls that have body image issues often drop out of sport early in puberty. This means that “athletic types”, on average, are less likely to have body image problems.

      But yeah… enjoying what your body can do can only help.

      • msw says:

        These “body image issues” are not universal in these sports, either. Not by a long shot. There are thousands of gymnasts in the US alone, most of whom aren’t participating in very high levels in the sport.

        Besides, take a look at a gymnast and say that isn’t an athletic build. 85% of elite gymnasts these days have a stockier build than the gymnasts of the 70s and 80s.

    • Lucrezia says:

      I could give you a hundred examples of athletic girls with body-image issues. Seriously, name a sport and I could find you one.

      Personally, the one that springs to mind is Hayley Lewis (Aussie) who won a silver medal at the 1992 Olympics, put on a bit of weight and retired just before the 1996 Olympics. Later stated one of the reasons she retired was that she couldn’t face getting on the blocks with all the fabulously fit girls from other countries.

      Or you could just look at the stats: female athletes are MORE likely to have an eating disorder than female non-athletes. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-02-05-women-health-cover_x.htm

  18. Kim1 says:

    I love this woman I have been defending skinny woman for years despite not being skinny myself.Women are different sizes,different hair colors,different skin tones,different hair textures….One is not superior to the others

  19. Toot says:

    I like Robyn. She’s intelligent and correct. Skinny chick here. :)

  20. lady mary. says:

    gorgeous ,healthy ,tall ,well spoken ,intelligent ,independent ,,strong ,all in one ,phew ,men r gonna be stabbing each other be by her side ,why dont they make her a victoria secret model ?

  21. fabgrrl says:

    She looks so frickin’ hot in that black dress! Rowr! That is a WOMAN.

  22. A says:

    I don’t think calling her and others like her plus size helps…even though, yes, according to model standards she is.
    Young teenagers and even older women see that and go “Well i don’t want to be plus sized” and starve themselves or go on crazy diets because who wants to be “plus sized”.
    “Normal” thin models aren’t called minus sized or under sized because they are the norm and everyone (or most) want to be the norm, the standard.

  23. HotPockets says:

    “society as a whole is kinder to thin people.”

    Not true and I can honestly say that being that I was once arguably a little heavier set and then I lost 35 pounds, which is a significant amount of weight for my height. People are very rude to me now that I am skinny. I get constant comments about how I should eat a hamburger because I’m too thin or if I’m ok? I’ve even had people imply that I have an eating disorder and I don’t. I simply lost weight because I became more active, it was as simple as that.

    I posted something very similar to what she is saying the other day on facebook and this is my reaction to what people constantly say to me. Since when did it become acceptable to devalue a woman’s beauty and appearance based on her size. The real women have curves campaign is hypocritical and does send out a positive message, it implies that you’re only defined by your size and that is not empowering. If you’re thin, you’re a REAL woman. Size should never define who you are, no matter if you’re curvy or not. Women need to quit pitting themselves against each other with double standards. The only thing that should ever matter is if you’re happy and healthy, end of story.

    • msw says:

      You know, people saying things like that to you are in the wrong, plain and simple. Commenting on someone else’s weight is just rude, plain and simple, and enforces the belief that it somehow affects someone’s quality as a person. I absolutely agree that this “real woman” bs is awful. But i have also been on both sides of this and i feel it is a lot easier to be skinny. People are more outright rude to skinny women because it is more socially acceptable (however wrong that is). But i am bombarded with anti fatness every day. It comes in more frequent and more insidious comments, like my sister in law asking (the very first time we were ever alone together, on the first day we met) if i gained a lot of weight when i was pregnant, because she was trying to figure out if i was always fat or if it was just a horrible siide effect of having children. Having family email me diet tips. My mom telling my wedding photographer that i didn’t want to be photographed from the back because i was self conscious about my butt (not even true). And that isn’t even including all the media emphasis, and attacks on fatness. Or the fact that clothes, even plus size clothes, are not cut for me. Or when some guy yelled at me that my ass was too fat across a parking lot because i wouldn’t answer his cat calls.

      For the record, i am not the one who has a problem with my weight. It’s others. I am a size 18 and 5’6″. It’s not like I am head turningly fat, especially in my very fat city. But it is definitely a thin person’s world. That does not make it ok for anyone to give you grief, either, but as i said–in my experience it is a few bold and nasty comments versus constant underhanded messahes and criticisms, from everywhere.

      • Blondey says:

        I think the motivation for insulting “skinny people” is more often motivated by jealousy than meanness – society’s way of balancing all of the “wow – you can wear anything” and “eat anything”. I personally have had my weight fluctuate by loss and gain. I got millions of compliments when I lost 30 lbs, not a one when the weight came back! (except the “she has a beautiful face, if she only lost a few pounds…).

        Until they start selling “No skinny chicks” bumper stickers, I will have to say – above-average people have a harder go of it.

  24. Ok says:

    Really good interview.

    Only one thing that bothered me was the vague feeling of having heard this before. Then I remembered Emme from about the early 1990′s.

    Emme was a very popular plus model in the 1990′s.

    Then I realized that was 20 years ago. And it made me sad to realize how very slowly the needle is (or is not) moving.

    It was this model’s quote of “it’s a start”.

    Well it should not be a start. It should have been more of a progression in the last 20 years (sigh)

  25. Lucy says:

    Didn’t know her until know. I like her. And she’s gorgeous.

  26. Claudia says:

    I agree. And it always pains me when people say this because there are a lot of people born with “no shape”, no ass, no boobs, etc. Are they somehow less “real” of a woman just because they lack those curves? I’m practically flat chested and don’t have much of a waist. It sucks, especially when you pair it with my latin girl ass. We should celebrate healthy figures, whatever they may be.

  27. TheyPromisedMeBeer says:

    You know what sentence jumped out at me? When she put on blast the fact that her dad didn’t get paid his due for being a fire fighter. I like that she is calling out the system, but I wonder if it ever strikes her as ironic that she makes way more now for her features than her dad did for “hero’s work”.

    That being said, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of her, and I already like her a lot.

  28. RMJ says:

    I literally have not heard anyone say “real women have curves” except to criticize it in at least five years. I agree that quantifying certain women as real and others as not is bull. But the constant talk about how awful that phrase is a straw man argument used to distract from destructive beauty standards that value thinness above all.

    • Jo 'Mama' Besser says:

      I think so, too. It’s a lot like that complaint that everything is ‘too PC’ when they’re out to offend. Where’s this magical PC realm of which I constantly hear? It lasted for *maybe* about four minutes in 1994, but since then people have been acting like jackasses and claiming persecution before anyone can even respond. Yeah, world’s so PC, that’s why people are bigger assholes now than they were 20 years ago. Whatever, just blame it on the internet and taxes.

  29. mmd575 says:

    She’s gorgeous! That being said, in the first picture I thought she was Pam from True Blood.

  30. Ryan says:

    Except the word diet refers to things people or animals regularly eat and is NOT a bad word. We need to quash that stigma around the word diet.

  31. Isa says:

    I agree with her!
    I’m a real woman, I’m not particularly skinny anymore. I think I’m about average. I have no curves no matter how much weight I gain.
    I also hate the saying that real men like meat, only dogs like bones or something to that effect. Men like whatever they liked. Ugh!

  32. Bijlee says:

    I envy her body. I want it….now I feel guilty for eating that mcchicken instead of going to the gym like I’m supposed to :( . One is a dollar the other is free! What’s wrong with me?!

  33. Camille (TheOriginal) says:

    She is right. And she is also seriously stunning.
    Give me this girl over that bimbo Kate Upton or the other bland models that are out there today any day of the week.

  34. Gaby says:

    She is so beautiful and so right! Love her.

  35. Lisa says:

    But then she has a tumblr called Robin Lawley Eats… Do you see the problem?

    • amilu says:

      What’s the problem? It’s a food blog. Why not celebrate delicious food in gorgeous photos? How is it any different from having an art blog or a fashion blog or a celebrity gossip blog? I honestly don’t see the difference. Or are you just taking issue with the name? Robyn Lawley does eat. Everyone eats. Just doing a quick google search shows a bunch of blogs with the same name format — Bella Eats, EJ Eats, Kath Eats, Carlos Eats, Chuck Eats, JP Eats, Rachel Eats, etc. Really don’t see the problem… *shrug*

      Sample blog entry — a photo of a shopping cart full of fruits and vegetables. Caption “Healthiest shop I’ve done in a while, its hard to get your daily veggies &fruit when traveling everywhere.”

      Promoting body acceptance and enjoying food are not mutually exclusive.

      Swimsuit model Chrissy Teigen has a food blog, too. http://sodelushious.com/.

  36. Melissa says:

    YES. I feel the same way. You can’t always help being skinny anymore than you can help being curvy. To say only REAL women have curves is insulting.

  37. Carolyn says:

    Robyn is just beautiful. She is featured all the time in womens’ mags here in Australia.

    With others…it does help her that she’s 6ft 2. Still, I’m pleased she’s intelligent and has her head screwed on. I’d rather read about Robyn than Cara big-eyebrows what’s her name.

  38. Apricot Jam says:

    I agree with her, and think we should embrace all types, BUT BUT BUT: a lot of this negative, “skinny” talk is admittedly about hollywood women, who literally ALL start out as normal, attractive people, and who plummet in weight the moment they’re told to in hollywood. We make excuses, but that’s not healthy, either. Is that “accepting of all body types”? No. It’s still telling the whole of America that it’s better to starve yourself thin than be who you are. So yes, calling out a hollywood chick for losing 20 pounds that she really needed to look healthy? I don’t think that’s bizarre. It’s the truth. People have eyes. I’m not talking about the girl who grew up bone thin and it’s her natural body. I’m talking about how obvious it is that women in hollywood looked great and then lost 20 lbs and now look like their bones will snap. There’s a HUGE difference.

  39. danielle says:

    She is absolutely stunning and radiant. I think any size is beautiful and a woman that is confident and healthy looking will look beautiful regardless of their measurements.

  40. emma says:

    Damn she’s awesome! Body acceptance!

  41. Savanna says:

    Some women are curvy! Some are built a little boxier! Some of us are heavy! Some of us are skinny! All of us deserve equal pay… hahahhaa

  42. Renee says:

    I love her. And model Jennie Runk. There are others as well. They’re gorgeous.

  43. moon says:

    I find it scary that this is considered plus sized! This looks healthy/normal to me.

  44. Meg says:

    at the headline i was getting ready to get mad at her, but what she said was really smart.

  45. A.P. says:

    I really REALLY wish people would stop using the word “curvy” to describe someone who is a little bigger. You can be skinny and curvy, you can be bigger and not have curves, or you can be bigger and have curves. Curvy just means there is a a discernible difference in your waist-hip ratio. There are plenty of skinny women who have curves. My best friend is 5’2, 100lbs but has a 12 inch difference between her waist and hip measurements, if that’s not curvy, I don’t know what is.