Prince Charles and Duchess Camilla have been touring Canada this week, but oddly enough, very few agencies are following through with photos from their many royal excursions. I would have loved to cover Camilla’s clothes and hair, but I guess it’s better this way, with very few people paying attention. Charles’ office at Clarence House is surprisingly good at social media – you can see Instagram pics here and here’s a link to the Prince of Wales’ Flickr.
So, with not many people paying attention to this tour, why not do something to shake things up? Like have Prince Charles say that Vladimir Putin is just like Adolf Hitler. Sure!
On Monday, Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall visited Pier 21, Canada’s national immigration museum in Halifax, during their four-day tour of the country. The prince chatted to museum volunteer Ms Ferguson, who left Poland for Canada just prior to the Nazi occupation. The 78-year-old managed to escape to Canada along with her parents and two sisters, but other members of her family were sent to Nazi camps, the Daily Mail reported.
“He [Prince Charles] asked when I came to Canada, I told him 1939,” Ms Ferguson said. They had discussed how “Hitler was going into different countries and taking them over”.
She added that she could not “exactly remember” the phrase the prince had used, but that he then “said something to the effect of ‘it is not unlike what is now happening in Russia, what Putin is doing’. But it was only a moment… It was a very short remark.”
Clarence House said it would not comment on a private conversation. The prince and the Russian president are both due to attend a D-Day anniversary event in France next month. Speaking from China, President Putin’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov told the BBC he was “not commenting right now” on the remarks.
It was, Marienne Ferguson told the BBC, “just a little remark. I didn’t think it was going to make such a big uproar”.
It has had significant ramifications because it was uttered by a man who will one day be head of state. The British monarchy is in a period of subtle transition. Prince Charles is, slowly, taking on more of his 88-year-old mother’s workload. As a result, there’s a renewed focus on the type of king he will become. Privately, Charles – a passionate prince – probably won’t be too bothered that he’s highlighted the actions of President Putin. Others at Buckingham Palace and the UK Foreign Office are likely to be less sanguine. And his critics – he has plenty for a person who’ll one day occupy a unifying role – will see this as yet another example of an unelected hereditary heir meddling when he shouldn’t.
Do you think Prince Charles is aware of Godwin’s Law? Honestly though, I can’t really make jokes about this because what’s going down in Ukraine is terrifying and it bothers me that western European leaders aren’t more upset by what’s going down. There are historical references to be made, and truly, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. But maybe we should stop saying that everybody is “like Hitler.” Anyway, British politicians are up in arms and some MP says that Charles should abdicate. Seriously? Over a random application of Godwin’s Law in a casual conversation that he probably didn’t believe would ever become public?
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Well the way he treats gay people is awful enough. WORD.
What has he done? I don’t know, please explain.
I think Nev meant Putin, not Charles 😉
the way he treats ALL the people is awful enough. The level of medical care, law, personal safety, freedom of speech etc for ordinary people is medieval. The way he screws his own people and international law, as well, is almost soviet. But funny that West only notices gay rights.
People in the West are aware of the level of corruption within Putin’s Russia, but the gay rights issue was a big deal and got a lot of international press because he’s chosen to sanction hate crimes.
Have you lived in the medieval times? And in today’s Russia? To actually make that comparison?
to add one thing – nowhere have i seen ppl so eager to idolize those in power, as in Russia. There are many awesome and honest people, but majority lives by the rool “suck up to those above u, and screw those beneath u shamelessly” on every level. There r still plenty of Stalin’s fans – they love the idea of “everyone’s afraid of us”. That’s why Putin’s tricks work so well – “who cares about corruption, the important thing is WE showed THEM!!”
I think Stalin fans have more to do with the fact that some people lived better under communism, than because they want the world to be afraid of them.
Its actually a fairly typical tactic to push a sense of ultra-nationalistic pride and nostalgia for the “good old days” as a way of re-directing a populace that is poverty stricken and oppressed.
@Lollipop- that also, but i was talking about his popularity among modern young people, as a fearsome and fierce chief commander who made everyone respect him !(phisically and mentally destroying millions of people, but who cares for detailes )
Do you really belive that western media war is after Putin over human right issues or gay issues or etc. Recent meeting between Putin and China was in year of making , especially signing gas deal that is multiplying in billions as we chat here on this site is pissing of big gas/oil/energy corporation for loosing the game. Hmmm…and we all know that those companies owns many media outlets that we are being bombarded with news about terrible Putin. Do we really need another Cold War?
GEA: when has any territorial (and intangible goods) dispute ever been about ideals? It’s always business and who profits from it.
And that is my biggest recent disappointment — that I can’t trust western/american newspapers anymore. I kind of used to really buy this “freedom of speech” thing…Oh well.
Still doesn’t make him a Hitler. People are so quick to go there, that they seem to forget all the damage and carnage Hitler caused. He didn’t sit back and allow the Polish people to vote on whether they wanted in or not.
yes, Delorb, because Russians holding a referendum in a state that is not Russia is a textbook example of free and fair democracy at work. (I’ve forgotten the internet sign for sarcasm, so let me make this clear: those referendums were a total joke) And I don’t think that anyone on this thread has forgotten all the damage and carnage that Hitler caused. I think that we are all hoping that it is not repeated.
There are a number of ways a person could be compared to Adolf Hitler. It isn’t only about the Holocaust. Hitler’s grandiose and mistaken belief about and efforts toward a unified “Germanic”, even those never part of Germany, are not an unfair comparison to Putin. Prince Charles and all Brits are probably more aware of Germany’s history than Americans are.
You don’t go from zero to Hitler is my point. No one on the planet at this time can be compared to Hitler. Doing so diminishes the horrors that were perpetrated by the real guy. I’m sure that Putin can be compared to any number of small dicked despots, but Hitler isn’t one of them.
Someone needs to start calling Putin out.
Lol like President Obama tried doing a few months ago? Putin doesn’t care about what us Westerners think about him.
Sorry I don’t live in America so may have missed it. What did he say?
Basically he called Obama weak. I don’t remember his exact words, but it was during the debate over the chemical warfare in Syria, which in my opinion was handled wrongly by our government, and he called Obama out on it. Putin has no respect for Obama and has generally said so a few times, he is a dangerous man.
Like Obama is a saint. Putin is horrible, but “leaders of the free world” have done awful things that just go undercover.
Obama certainly is no saint and the way that he dealt with Syria was wishy washy and did make him look weak IMO. You don’t achieve the levels of power and positions that these two men hold by being a saint. However Putin is a KGB thug and certainly threatens any diplomatic or allied positions for Russia.
Putin is horrible. Absolutely horrible. A strong Russia as a balance to the West is quite needed, but not in this way.
@ elo
What are you taking about? Obama got exactly what he wanted out of the Syria situation.
Here’s a good read on Goodwin’s Law that encompasses Prince Charles’ comments and references to Obama. http://ethicsalarms.com/2014/04/16/more-on-the-dangers-of-godwins-law/
Mich- though I realize the endgame was achieved, I am referring to his lack of commitment to tactic, his “red lines” that kept being redrawn and seeming lack of resolve. There have been several articles questioning whether it was strategic or just indecisiveness, and I believe the latter.
I don’t think it was Obama’s lack of resolve that had anything to do with the situation in Syria. If you remember Russia and China vetoed the resolution in the UN. Putin has made it clear repeatedly that he finds nothing wrong with dictators bombing and poisoning their citizens. I think Obama wisely decided that the US wasn’t going to bare the burden of peace maker on its own. It wouldn’t have worked if we moved unilaterally anyway, because of the realities on the ground in Syria (not being able to tell which people are with which group, the geographic challenges, the level of weapons the Syrians have, etc.)
Obama is my hero because he has kept us out of war, when there were so many voices saying that we should. I think that there is a profound belief operating in him that makes him want to avoid it. That is not weak! Republicans like John Cain would have had the US involved militarily in Syria and the Ukraine. (Imagine if he had been elected!) I don’t want to go to war period! The US is not responsible to fix everything wrong in the world! Bully for him!
Putin does not give half a cr*p about what people might say about him. And honestly, why should he care? (Keep in mind I am in no way pro-Putin). He has a massive army, nuclear weapons and lots of popular support in places like the Ukraine. I doubt very much he’d even bat a proverbial eyelash at anyone calling him out.
He doesn’t have to care, and there currently isn’t a way to make him care. Even if ‘smart’ sanctions are effective, it’ll take awhile to tell, and I’m not sure in this case it’d matter to him anyway.
One of the questions is what happens when the pro-Putin residents of Crimea realize that it isn’t going to be governed any better than it was when it was part of Ukraine? And that a lot of this nationalism is indeed a distraction from Putin’s corruption?
I think the only way to make a guy like Putin care is to take away his seat at the Big Boy’s Table. Freeze the money. Kick his kids (and his supporters) out of expensive private schools in the UK. Deny access to the table they so desperately wanted to be at for so long.
@HF – exactly – freezing the accounts really works, it instantly makes his supporters less enthusiastic
Obama should be called out, too.
Forgive me, I’m not American but isn’t it true that the president can’t act on his own. Power is not centralized in the executive, he has to go through congress and all this other checks and measures. He cannot unilaterally make certain decisions ‘ whereas Putin is for all intents and purposes a dictator and his parliament is a joke. I don’t understand then, what all this Obama should be called out like he is a figure with centralised power who can do what he wants.
Oh, but Obama IS enacting unilateral decisions. They’re called Executive Orders. Look ’em up.
This kind of blanket statement without supporting facts always annoys me. I think it would behoove some people to do a little research on the use of executive orders, understand how limited in scope they are, and be aware that the current president has issued fewer E.O.s than his predecessor during his first five years in office.
Try this one on for size: Obama administration asserts unlimited war powers without Congressional authorization, by Joseph Kishore on wsws.org, May 22, 2014.
Russia lost 30 MILLION military and civilian people fighting the Nazis in WW2. This comment by Charles (who should keep his mouth shut) is highly, highly insulting to the Russian people as well as Putin. No fan of Putin, but I understand the furor.
So because the Soviets lost millions of people during WWII (and millions pre-war under Stalin) we shouldn’t criticize Putin?
Soviet union (Ukraine included) lost millions of people fighting Nazis. Putin though doesnt have any merit in that. And when his words and action are similar to those of Hitler in his early days, it is what it is. Fascism is not defined by ethnicity, but by specific acts of specific people.
Oh, very, very well said, lana86.
Frankly, if Charles really said that, I’m proud of him. Other than German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, most European leaders have been shockingly quiet. Good for the future King who wished to be a tampon. 😛
And you know it’s driving Charles crazy that no one is talking about this tour and everyone went gaga over the kids in Oz/NZ.
I do think he thinks of Putin as ‘hitler-esque’
Good for Prince Charles. Putin is a class A Ahole. He hates gays because I feel he is one and he hates himself.
Ironically, Charles’ great uncle (who abdicated for Wallis Simpson) had a lot of sympathy for the Nazis and when he was the crown prince around the time of World War II, certain government documents were deliberately kept from his review (they thought he would leak information).
But I think Charles is correct here. Putin is showing he will just roll into weaker European countries and take them over (by subversive methods) and he doesn’t give a flying f**k what anyone thinks. So yes, the Ukraine of 2014 is the modern version of Poland in 1938. I feel bad for the average Russian who is being dragged along while Putin and his corrupt friends get filthy rich off of all this.
I find myself always defending the Duke of Windsor even though he was a class A idiot and a weak man, BUT! Many of the establishment including the royals had sympathy for Hitler and favoured appeasement.
Once war was declared, and especially after the full horror of Hitler was exposed, they all white washed their reputations.
DoW was never allowed to white wash his reputation and it suited the Establishment to talk UP his bad points in order to make the new King look good.
The only front line politician who warned about Hitler repeatedly and for many years was Churchill. He was considered an idiot for taking an anti-Hitler position.
He can roll into Ukraine because there is a significant Russian minority there. Which other country could he roll into?
“Which other country could he roll into? ”
He thinks that all of the countries that were a part of the former USSR should be returned to the Motherland. He has talked about how the break up of the USSR was the great atrocity of his lifetime.
He said, “Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century,”
I too think Charles is correct. My spouse feels all ‘Nato’ and Putin will not be allowed to annex countries, but I vehemently disagree. Ukraine for the Ukrainians. We are in a RL Game of Thrones.
Putin is a megalomaniac plutocracy puppet, and Obama is the latest figurehead in the United States’ long history of expansionist empire. So-called Globalization is a euphemism for the increasing importance of competing empires intent on redividing the world. Corrupting rulers is central to the wealthy corporate elite securing privileged access to lucrative resources, markets and enterprises.
Countries have sought to overthrow weaker nations since recorded history, and the only thing that can stop this insanity is the populace overthrowing the empire building states and stopping them from continuing on their merry way in re-dividing the world’s spoils. We must all decide to fight with all our might FOR the foundation of a world without corruption, pillage and exploitation and shake off those who suck us dry.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Fault-Line-Fighting-Corporatism-Income-Inequality/152585788140510
@Tiffany : That’s the worry, that Putin is trying, in some way to regain the Near Abroad. Whether he’s really a Russian nationalist or just one of political convenience, I don’t know, but the end results don’t seem to be any different.
I agree, cr. I probably wasn’t clear. The quote asking what other countries he would go into was from Spookyspooks.
To Spookyspooks – Hitler also started by taking over countries where there were significant German minorities, and people thought he would stop there. I’m not saying Putin has the same ambitions at all, but certainly his fondness for the Eastern bloc days, when the USSR took over countries with no Russian population, is not comforting.
Putin is a real life Bond villain but worse. He was in the KGB. I saw one of them flying through a windshield to make a driver (criminal, was running) stop.
I don’t have a problem with this, Putin is a homophobe scumbag. Done.
Yep. NEXT.
Maybe Charles was thinking about that false story about Russia ordering Jews to register and to surrender their land, which after a day of uproar from the West, Jewish leaders confirmed it was false.
I think Charles knows exactly what he was talking about. He was talking about Germany invading sovereign countries under the guise of “protecting” Germans. They would take a little and stop. Take a little and stop. And then take it all. That’s what happened in Poland which is what the conversation was about. My guess is that Europeans – and particularly those from Eastern Europe – know exactly what is happening and what the precedent is. It had nothing to do with the Jews registering story. As for what his 88 year old mother might say – my guess is that she would have stronger words. And he did not compare Putin to Hitler. He said that what Putin was doing was similar to what Hitler did.
^THIS
I couldn’t say it better myself.
Well said, Sarah.
Amen, sis
Exactly. People need a history lesson.
Perfectly said!
Exactly.
exactly
But Charles forgot about the bit when England did nothing and Hitler initiated his plans, for the British PM to negotiate with Hitler via the policy of appeasement. That detail is somehow forgotten by everyone.
England mobilised only after Poland was invaded.
Well said, Sarah.
Perfect.
If only everyone reporting this story (including here) said that. Now it’s turned into a circus.
Exactly! I’m Polish and I totally agree with your comment.
I heard this covered on the BBC yesterday and they said he actually said something like “history has a tendency to repeat itself,” and never really made a direct comparison. I don’t know, this does seem overblown from what I can gather.
I agree, Esmom.
Ditto. Note also the British tabs are vicious. They could certainly fan any flame.
I think at this point comparing people to Hitler has lost it’s value. Everyone goes straight to the Holocaust because it was basically the most evil act of modern times and of course Putin hasn’t commuted those kinds of acts YET. Still if you look at Putin invasions and his persecution of homosexuals and his jailing of dissidents it’s pretty dark.
Hence Godwins Law. Which I didn’t know was an actual thing until this article and I have a communications degree. Lol The things you learn on celebitchy! 🙂
You must not spend time in the comments sections of general (or in my case, local) news outlets, lol. Godwin’s Law is invoked on a regular basis, especially when the “conversation” involves Obama. And people invariably then call people out on invoking it. It’s why I greatly prefer to spend my time here in more civilized company. 🙂
I think invading neighboring countries is actually a valid comparison to Hitler. Yes, the reference is used as hyperbole most of the time, but here it is apt.
Agreed. Godwin’s law refers to arguments dead ended by a specious comparison to Hitler.
Just got home from Day 2 of the 5th Mumbai International Queer Film Festival where the schedule included three films on the queer community in Russia. ‘The Beginning’, ‘Thanks’ and ‘They Hate Me In Vain – LGBT Christians In Today’s Russia’. All heartbreaking and horrifying in equal measure. Especially the bits about self-appointed ‘curers’ luring gay men and often gay teenagers from the internet to public spaces where they are bullied, humiliated and their ordeal uploaded on the internet.
Though, I don’t think he needs to be compared to Hitler to convey the horrific nature of his actions. Those actions speak for themselves.
“[…] self-appointed ‘curers’ luring gay men and often gay teenagers from the internet to public spaces where they are bullied, humiliated and their ordeal uploaded on the internet.”
Oh, this makes my stomach ache. It’s saddening and shocking and disappointing to know that this sort of behavior exists. I cannot imagine the kind of hostility that goes into not only thinking up such acts but then going so far as to carry them out…it is truly incomprehensible.
Well Royal family doesn’t look bright anyways. So I am not surprised.
No, but Charles did go to college (being the heir to the throne and all that). Ditto for William. Andrew and Sarah Ferguson actually set a precedent in having their daughters attend college – not a usual path for female royals.
College or not, the queen always struck me as a pretty sharp cookie! She’s seen it all.
Since when going to college has become a sign of intelligence ?
The Queen had the best tutors in the land ie from Eton. As soon as she became heir presumptive, her course of study became a preparation for her eventual reign. She studied constitutional law and history, and religion as well as the usual subjects for well brought up young ladies like music and french.
Going to college was probably surplus to requirements considering the subjects she was made to study and the quality of her tutors.
Quality of turtor is no guarantee of quality of student. And queen is a shrewd cookie all right but that’s 1 person and compared to who ? I think its general perception that BRF is of below avg intelligence.
Ray: My point is that HM didn’t necessarily need to go to college as she was already receiving an education from tutors who were more accustomed to educating the brightest in the land and in subjects that were not the norm for women of her generation.
Her education would therefore have reached college level intensity without her having to go to an actual college especially because the focus of her education was to prepare for her reign.
LAK – What I was saying is that education and brightness are not related. Anyways long live the queen if she wants too.
Except his comments were accurate. Hitler started out by creating an environment of fear in his country, controlling the media, being hostile to Western countries and taking over soverigned nations. All of which Putin is doing now and no one is stopping him. Include the war on gays that Hitler also participated in. Charles is right.
Amen!
He’s far from the first person to make the comparison.
It’s one thing to jump straight straight to Hitler comparisons every time someone disagrees with you on the internet and an entirely different thing to compare a tyrannical world leader to Hitler. If we wait until Putin has killed 7 million people before deciding that yes, history is repeating itself, then what’s the point of history lessons? The single good thing to come from Adolf Hitler is that his actions are so etched in everyone’s minds that when it inevitably happens again we should be able to see it for what it is and intervene before another Holocaust occurs.
Except genocide keeps happening. So in terms of having Hitler (and Stalin and Mao) as comparisons to help prevent atrocities/mass killings/genocides it really doesn’t seem to have helped in practical terms.
Exactly my thought. Invoking Hitler is really pointless when it isn’t followed by action. Sometimes I think we haven’t really learned anything from the holocaust, except perhaps that evil on a massive scale can still be perpetuated while the rest of the world looks idly by (or more cynically, simply creates pithy hashtags)…until the debris of it washes up on their own shores.
Personally, I have no problem with people invoking WWII in connection with Putin, because the similarities to early Hitler are very troubling. What is his end game?
Exactly. Genocide still happens and it happened before Hitler too. Look at what was was done to the Native Americans in the US and Canada. The genocide took place more slowly, but more were killed than in Germany. How about the “witch hunts” where they killed off any wise women they could find for a couple of centuries. Nobody knows how many women were tortured and killed in that one.
Actually, the common denominator to all these atrocities is thel male gender of our species.
Usually these kinds of comparisons are drawn when it’s politically advantageous. People don’t like what Putin is doing with the Ukraine, because Ukraine is supposed to be under European influence, not Russian influence. If Putin had done this to some other part of the former Soviet Union that the European Union doesn’t care about, things would be different.
Politically advantageous, yes, but also partly because it really seems about the only comparison that people know to make. Most people learn something about the Holocaust, and they might learn about Stalin’s mass killings, maybe Mao’s.
And there are certain patterns of behavior in mass killings/genocides, but most people really don’t much about that in general so it becomes: you’re committing atrocities, annexing lands? You’re just like Hitler!
@cr: I agree about the general populace, but Charles and other people (politicians in my own country for example, or even politicians from Israel who a couple of years ago compared the then-leader of Iran to Hitler) should know better. They have the education to know better. And they probably do, but as you said, making a comparison with Hitler is very easy and everybody immediately understands that something very evil is going on, even though things are usually much more complex.
And I think we agree that Putin is far far away from anything comparing to the mass killings/genocide of Hitler, Stalin and Mao.
@in-theory: some of the politicians might know of other atrocities, or they should, but odds are the general populace is going to be very confused if you start making comparisons to Cambodia, or The Congo, East Timor, etc.
The other problem that I’ve seen using Hitler as a comparison is that some people think ‘well, that leader hasn’t killed 5-6 million people and annexed a land(s), so we don’t need to do anything until he gets closer to that point’ I’ve seen this in letters to the editor in the 1990’s in references to doing something in Bosnia and Rwanda.
Hitler comparisons can be misused anyway you want to.
@cr: Interesting what you say about Bosnia and Rwanda. I think comparisons to Hitler shouldn’t be necessary to put a stop to genocide or to alarm people that something bad is about to happen in a country. And I don’t think Nazi Germany is comparable to Cambodia or other places where genocides happen unless we want to say that the end result is usually the same: lots of dead people. In that case we could compare the US to Nazi Germany on account of the killing of the Native Americans.
Given what I’ve observed of international politics in the last years I seriously doubt that countries move to intervene in other countries for the sake of the people that are suffering there. It’s an easy way to sell such interventions to the general public (that might actually be moved by some compassion). Mostly it’s about the protection of interests, which sometimes leads to even more suffering in the invaded countries. But this is going way off-topic now.
Thank you, in_theory! You said it all perfectly. Unfortunately, politics is all about influences and power play.
What’s happening now in Ukraine is much more complex than “some evil tyrant decided to annex more lands”. But it is easy to paint one-dimensional when it suits certain politic interests.
As much as I hate comparisons with Hitler because they usually make Hitler appear less bad than he was – there is the fact that both he and Putin occupied countries in which part of the people agreed to being occupied/annexed. And from what I can tell, this was what Charles referenced, not other things that Hitler did.
It wasn’t the most politically intelligent thing to say, maybe, but so what.
That’s what I got out of it, too.
I agree. And he made a passing remark in a private conversation. He didn’t give a speech denouncing Putin.
Considering that Hitler started off with annexations – Austria, Sudetenland – I don’t think the Hitler comparison is an unfair one. There are many pertinent similarities. I highly doubt he was referring to the Holocaust, although the demonizing of homosexuality, and the ridiculous laws about gay propaganda are not so different from the early years of Hitler’s regime either.
All in all, I don’t think Charles has anything to be sorry about.
+1
Hitler started off doing the same thing that Putin is doing now: jailing those he believed “inferior,” taking over the state media, silencing dissidents, and now military invasions. Is Putin like full-blown Hilter in his evil prime? No. I hope no one ever will be. But there are definitely warranted similarities.
yes
Agree. I don’t think he’s off base with his comment at all.
@vilebody, I hope no one will ever repeat Hitler’s atrocities, but there are some quite evil people currently on this earth, Putin being one of them. He is a very dangerous man, and hopefully he will be stopped before it is too late.
He started his annexations with England’s permission (Chamberlain’s policy of appeasement) as well. You forgot that detail and it’s an important detail. Charles conveniently forgot this as have many people in the media and many commenters.
England ignored Germany and let them do whatever they liked until their invasions were too difficult for the rest of the world to ignore.
The Hitler comparison is inaccurate and confirms Charles’ uneducated status.
Well England is not doing anything about Putin’s invasion. Charles is not the head of government so can’t do anything about it but I’m happy he is in disagreement with some of those in power who are just letting Putin do whatever he wants or are too scared to act.
I disagree. Hindsight is 20/20, so I don’t think using Chamberlain and his policy of appeasement against Prince Charles is fair. It’s much too broad, and brushes aside most of what actually happened. The Prince is an extremely educated man, and I would guess that he is very well versed in the events that led up to WWII. I believe that is what he is referring to and it is an apt comparison on his part. In fact, many countries in Europe also decided to wait and see with Hitler, or even support him, until he rolled up onto their borders. It also neglects to include the alliances (and the obligations they imposed) that were in place from the end of WWI.
Chamberlain was not unopposed in parliament; it was a bitter debate. However, no one could have predicted the true extent of what Hitler planned, since he concealed his true intentions until the hammer had fallen. He rallied his people and then started his policy of oppression (even hosting the Olympics!) – like Putin. I see nothing wrong with what the Prince said.
To my recollection, this is the smartest thing I think he’s ever said.
It’s not smart. Why?
Because when Hitler started making strides in Europe, England gave him the go ahead through a policy of appeasement where English PM Neville Chamberlain negotiated with Hitler. It was only when Germany invaded Poland that England woke up. Charles is an uneducated and over pampered prince and should know better.
….but isn’t what Putin doing the same thing ie the west is allowing him to continue what he is doing as long as it’s not on our shores?!
Just because our ancestors appeased Hitler doesn’t mean we have no voice now and can’t point out the unacceptable.
What makes this and other similar situations horrendous is knowing this is going on and turning the other cheek and hand wringing because it’s un-PC to say it or our idiotic ancestors once supported a similar situation.
Followed by action of course.
+1 LAK
What does what happened back then have to do with Prince Charles. He made an apt comparison and it is freaking enraging how everyone is being so hands off about what Putin is doing. He is jailing those who he considers inferior (gays), he is rolling into other countries to “protect” the Russian population. I won’t be surprised if Putin wakes up and decides that he is going to go happily marching into other countries that surround Russia to protect them. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck.
I’m not condoning Putin here, I’m just stating that it’s not a good comparison. In some countries, the legacy of England’s colonisation can still be felt [e.g. Australian Aborigines]. So Charles, as a future king, is not one to point the finger, after his nation has profited from racist policies. The man has never had a real job in his entire life.
The situation in Ukraine is more complex than what the media reveal. For example, they never discuss the fact that the IMF wants to provide a billion dollar loan to Ukraine. These loans do have to be paid off eventually and nothing good ever comes from any IMF involvement, and this would explain why people want to secede.
If your read up on the history of the IMF in the latter 20th century and its role in issuing loans, you would to. The Ukraine issue is not as simple as the standard ‘Putin is evil’ commentary.
Agreed LAK and starrywonder. Evi, I really don’t understand your comment at all. Charles didn’t say anything about what England did. He’s talking about what Hitler did, and he is right. Just because England had a policy of appeasement last time around doesn’t mean that they can’t do anything this time around (or that no one can make the apt comparison between what happened then and what is happening now).
In fact, I think making the comparison is very smart of Charles. Maybe that will cause people to think about how we acted last time and how it didn’t work and cause us to act differently this time around instead of sticking our heads in the sand.
@Evi,
Putin is indeed evil and that’s worthy of note, of comparison and conversation. Meanwhile living in the past when referring to non Nazi countries and their lethal ignorance and mistakes many, many decades later as if they were still driving that same history now is unproductive and irrelevant, IMO. It would be relevant if history were repeating itself, but it has no relevance when it comes to Charles’ statement.
England didn’t “wake up” when Germany invaded Poland. England had a treaty which required they go to war to defend Poland.
England didn’t “ignore” Germany’s behavior leading up to the war. England, for the most part, desperately did not want to go to war again so soon after WWI. They lost almost a million men in WWI and it devastated that generation. Churchill was indeed a lone wolf crying in the wilderness for a long time. It should also be noted that England had stalled for a long time even gearing up for another war and was nowhere near ready to take anyone on even on September 3, 1939, when they declared war on Germany.
Putin’s pretense of “unifying” Russinas is very much Hitlerian. That has nothing to do with the Holocaust though that comparison may yet prove to be apt.
Super cute pics of Little George incoming in 10, 9, 8….
After all, they all share the same press office now, right?
Perfect shade! And so true.
I don’t mind calling Putin Hitler as every war monger is Hitler as long as Prince Charles calls tony Blair and Obama calls Bush (Hitler) too . They invaded Iraq for more business and killing 100 of thousands of civilians, or was tony Blair going by his bless?
what a hypocrite
Yes to the problem with hypocrisy. It’s rampant.
Right! And if the so-called Patriot Act – ready to be pushed through a suspicious MONTH after 9/11 – isn’t a fascist document, I don’t know what is.
No shit to all of the above!
I don’t think the problem is what Charles said. It’s the when, where & to whom.
– Charles is on a feel good tour to promote Canada
– he was visiting the Immigration Museum, their Ellis Island
– he was making small talk with a complete stranger
There was absolutely NO reason for Charles to steer their conversation from starting a new life in Canada to likening Putin to Hitler.
He’s there on official business representing The Queen and he’s dishing global politics with a museum volunteer?
It was ill-advised & indiscreet.
Oops I used similar terms below and I agree.
He was making small talk with a woman museum volunteer from Poland who emigrated to Canada in 1939, which is probably why he made the comparison. If she’d emigrated from somewhere else, or at a different time, probably wouldn’t have been brought up.
His press office is spinning his gaffe like he was trying to comfort her. How does telling a Holocaust Survivor there’s a new Hitler in town a comfort?
The woman is 87 years old. There are a million different things in that woman’s life that he could’ve chit-chatted about. How she’d persevered. How her family has thrived in Canada. How her memories of immigrating are important to future generations.
Well, Charles did want more attention on this tour & now he’s got it.
From the woman in question:
“But it was only a moment… It was a very short remark.”
So you, and I, don’t know what else he talked about with her. Apparently you think he wanted more international attention for this tour, anyway he could get it.
@cr, Uh, no. That’s not what I think.
What I think is that Charles wanted more attention for his good works on this tour & in an ironic twist he’s gotten more attention but because of a gaffe that he made.
@mena: sorry, but since you didn’t get specific in this statement: “Well, Charles did want more attention on this tour” combined with the tone of your other comments led me to that conclusion. Since you’ve clarified, fine.
@mena,
I don’t think it was a gaffe even if you do.
If he wanted more attention on this tour for good works and he got this, I think “this” rocks! A very, very good work, in my estimation and very worthy of attention!
Mena: the conversation wasn’t simply about starting a new life in Canada. The woman told him the reason they had to start a new life in Canada *from Poland*, and how Hitler was annexing countries which conversation Charles brought round to a modern day example => Putin.
Most people see Hitler as concentration camps and nothing else (not saying you are doing this), and it has become a short hand of sorts whilst the other parts of Hitlerian history are ignored and or forgotten.
Besides, if someone with a platform doesn’t say it, who will? Why is it that the gays, as an example, are allowed to be flagrantly mistreated whilst everybody uses circuitous arguments that resolve nothing?
Churchill warned against Hitler for many years before anyone took him seriously. Meanwhile the Establishment firstly agreed with Hitler, then tried to appease him whilst ignoring (deliberately, determinedly or dismissively) all that Hitler was doing. Only when war was declared did everyone ran to the side of right and in the meantime many more than those in the concentration camps had been killed and or, like this lady’s family, dispossessed and seeking refuge in other countries.
Ps: i’m not accusing Charles of Churchillian intelligence, but I aplaud what he said in this instance.
This.
The point being Charles is the one who brought their conversation around to comparing Putin to Hitler when IMO he didn’t have to – not then, anyway.
If Charles wanted his Hitler comparison to be truly effective, he would’ve waited to bring it up at the D-Day service he is scheduled to attend in a few weeks with Putin & other world leaders in attendance. Instead, he blew his load early, like a kid caught talking behind a bully’s back.
I’m not disagreeing with what Charles said but he went about it in a way that has left the British diplomatic corps back on their heels, which is another problem.
The man is entitled to his opinion but as an unelected representative of his country, should he be making his opinions public? Probably not.
LAK
Well said, except most gay people don’t want to be referred to as ‘the gays’
Agree 100% LAK. I see what Mena is saying, but it is also giving a deeper significance to what was ostensibly an offhand comment during a quick conversation. I don’t believe there was any premeditation, though the timing in light of the D-Day memorial is awkward. But much more awkward is the fact that that Putin is even attending the service, considering what is happening in Russia.
Mena: Considering he doesn’t go about making speeches or remarks condemning all sorts whilst attending events with those very same leaders, why would he start there?
The best he can do is avoid Putin completely at the D-Day event like he does the Chinese for their stance on Tibet, but would anyone notice? Has anyone noticed his ongoing Chinese boycott?
Yes, it would be effective IF he made his remarks there and avoiding Putin at the same time, but honestly, does it matter where he says them? His platform is clearly brighter than all the other leaders( with more gravitas) who’ve said the same thing eg Hilary Clinton because his comments have clearly *stung Putin whose aides are publicly reacting to this set of comments.
*not saying that Putin is going to remedy the situation now that PC has spoken, merely that his aides are commenting on PC’s remarks where they’ve ignored other leaders.
@LAK, as a future Head of State – heck, even as just a public figure – if Charles is not going to discuss the issues with the actual players involved then he probably shouldn’t talk about it with strangers on the street. Talking behind people’s backs and all.
I think the real problem is that Charles – and the rest of the BRF, for that matter – are unelected representatives. So is it in the public’s best interest that Charles publicly express his personal opinions when doing so can affect gov’t action?
Charles’ rash off-the-cuff remark has put Britain into a diplomatic confrontation with Russia. Regardless of what he said being true, I don’t think it was Charles’ place to put the British gov’t in that position.
PS LAK, I really appreciate your opinions in these royal topics 🙂 They’re interesting & thoughtful.
LAK – agree 1000%!!!
Also, maybe I’m reading the article wrong, but two things strike me: 1) Ms. Ferguson didn’t quote the Prince of Wales – she said he said “something to the effect of” or paraphrasing; and 2) even if she paraphrased correctly, what Charles said was a comparison of some of Hitler’s past actions to some of Putin’s current actions – actions, not that Putin is some sort of embodiment of all the horror that was Adolf Hitler.
While the monarch is to remain above politics, I think we all have recognized that Prince Charles has been very outspoken about many “political issues” over the years, mainly those related to the environment and urban planning. So his having an opinion on this issue comes as no surprise to me.
Moreover, I’m not quite sure how it would be possible to have a conversation mentioning the annexation of Poland without drawing some sort of a connection to what’s happening now in the Crimea and Ukraine. Drawing that connection may seem unsympathetic towards a nation that lost tens of millions in WWII, but I still think it was a logical course for the conversation, however brief.
This reminds me of a conversation I had recently with a friend and we were talking about the 70’s, Jimmy Carter and Iran and I made a comment about how I wish Obama was more a “lily cast in steel” like Rosalind Carter who urged the then President to be much tougher on Iran (BTW – her autobiography “First Lady From Plains” is awesome!). While I think President Carter is now a wonderful diplomat and humanitarian, I don’t think he was the greatest president and we were making the comparison to the President Obama and his actions now. It just all seems so like the conversation presently under scrutiny.
Now, that being said – I am not a public figure. I am certainly not a future head of state. But still – we don’t know for sure what exactly was said, we don’t know the specific context and Prince Charles is still just Prince of Wales – heir apparent, but still not the top dog. I believe it is unfortunate that this is overshadowing his tour. He and Camilla are doing 41 engagements in 3.5 days. If he wanted to overshadow the Cambridges’ Australia/New Zealand tour, that fact alone is sufficient to me to show that Prince Charles is about work and the Cambridge’s about show.
Also – I thought Her Majesty was attending the D-Day celebrations, not the PoW? Last I heard Rome and the D-Day event were in the diary as HM’s only upcoming travel engagements. Wasn’t it the timing of the D-Day event that caused the uproar when David Cameron moved the date of the State Opening of Parliament? There were tons of articles about it in the Telegraph and the Mail.
Excellent post, LAK.
It was a private moment of sharing, bonding and empathy. Nothing he said personally was untoward. I am amazed he is that in tune with the person he spoke to. Charles said the right thing at the right time and he has just gone up in my estimation.
BTW, @LAK, you rock!
Oh good, over-pampered figureheads saying inflammatory things. The US doesn’t corner the market on ill-advised statements by celebrities.
He should abdicate?!?! – He’s not King yet, so how is that even possible?
Truest thing he’s said since he burped up
“Whatever IN LOVE means”
Omg, LOL!
*chortles loudly *
The difference I find between Charles and William is that Charles was/is earnest and William is endlessly glib. I’ll take earnestness over speech that resembles a used car salesman anytime!
This totally classless “entertainment” really was the highlight of the tour:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2635111/We-unamused-Charles-Camilla-grimace-sit-excruciating-Queen-drag-act.html
And it makes me wonder, in the RF’s endless banquet/handshake/fishbowl life, how many truly dreadful things they see and endure with a “stiff upper lip”.
Perhaps it’s better when they don’t talk, because I can only imagine what I would have said if a man in drag had publicly made fun of my mother.
God Lord, I was horrified over this. Read about it this morning. As a Canadian, I’m completely ashamed that that dumbassery happened in MY maritimes. You don’t invite someone in and then mock their parents for God sakes.
Totally horrifying. I cannot imagine who in their right mind would ever approve this as acceptable entertainment. Someone should seriously be fired, and I wouldn’t throw that around lightly. PEI has so much better to offer than this fool. The premier, Robert Ghiz, is there in the front row and he looks like he wants to die.
Wow. That was awful. Back in the day, those troubadours might’ve lost their heads.
Charles gave that tacky mess a deserved slow clap!
Ding-Ding! I sat through Dune because I felt bad for a neighbour, but never got through this. At least I’m not my sister, she sat through Battlefield Earth ans for a guy–that’s straight up masochism, prove that it’s not! I am not as nice as her, but that relationship didn’t make it through that summer, so Xenu. That’s why I’m single, I’m too real.
What was this film? Part Weird Science, part Mannequin, part Brave New World, part Dune, part Fraggle and yet ir wasn’t even Toga 2000. Things that are dumb as hell make an impact on me, though. Did the guy pick a girl? Why am I asking?
I have to make some choices, walk the Earth. This couldn’t have been Cthulhu’s plan for me.
Couldn’t bring myself to watch. CBC already took him down and I can’t handle watching trainwrecks, this is why I’ve never heard that ‘Friday’ song.
I am not a monarchist. I find the history beyond fascinating (not I make a fetish out of the royals like that interesting in tv specials but otherwise pompous windbag, David Starkey)* . To wit: a couple of years ago I won a giant plush duckie for reciting all of the kings and queens of England (starting with the Normans) by heart** but no, I don’t understand waking up early (crime #1) to watch the most boring type of ceremony (weddings are about as much fun as watching a ‘snails on valium race’, that’s why you have to drink at them, so crime #2) to lionize the idle rich. (crime #3). Honestly, I’m surprised that Will and Kate could be bothered to show up, she must have gone four solid hours without a shopping trip.
But no one wants to watch an extended ‘Yo Mama’ joke. As you would imagine, the rabidly monarchist Daily Fail readers are strutting around disparaging Canada, which, by the temperature in the room seems to a common practice. It’s not that we’re hurt (it’s the Daily Fail, for Pete’s sake), it’s watching them try to be clever by making crass jokes about another country not landing the joke and missing the real joke about the situation.
*Seriously, Starkey never stops! Now he bemoans the ‘feminization’ of history because girls only care about weddings and marriage which makes sense because girls are only good at writing about weddings and marriage so they have a puffy pink market that’s ruining history. First: quiet, I bind thee. Second: says the man who writes books and makes television shows all about marriages, or was that someone else who wrote The Six Wives of Henry VII? Melon-head. I’d be shocked if he isn’t penpals with Eric Clapton, I’m sure he could lay back and think of Henry Purcell.
**I named the duckie Pinchas.
OMG, Pepsi! I guffawed throughout your entire post!
You, my dear, are the Queen of One Liners, allusions, and wordplay, et al.
Does your cool username have anything to do with B-Movie classic ‘Cherry 2000”s “I want you to get me a Pepsi”? – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Bj-8ZSAGM
An S.W. endorsement, woo-hoo!
@Erinn, those two are wild about the Maritimes, I think this has been their third trip in five years, I doubt their memories are that short–to forget nights with Anne Shirley over one disaster. Worst case scenario, they get tore up with me in Southern Ontario. Provincial election coming up, um, holla. Who am I fooling, the only time I ever even got close to tipsy was after a small amount of rye to dull the pain of a broken toe and even then I was with my professor.
Maybe I’m full of it because I’ve only been privy to the papers’ national groan hovering over the True North, but I can almost see why he would be compelled to do this and why he thought ‘the jokes landed’ *shudder*. He could’ve thought he was extending a hand across the pond to show some kind of comedic affinity between us. ‘Hey, we get Are You Being Served? too! Our senses of humour are frequently compared and…Corrie Street? Oh, everyone treats them like they’re royalty or something, but in the end everyone likea to laugh at themselves, it makes people seem human. And here’s a proud tradition: you get lots of dowdy drag acts impersonating Lillibet, it’s always been her and the late Mrs. Thatcher, isn’t that right? So, a tip of the girdle, Guv’na, Governor General…um…panto dames? Um… Dame Edna’s Neighbourhood Watch…Commonwealth. Oh come on, you people love men in dresses and look, I put on a wig–that writes itself; there’s a lot of history in this support hose!’ I imagine that’s what he’s thinking right now, after learning about lead balloon reception his performance got. Now, he’s thinking, ‘I knew I should’ve gone with a A Night Of Erotica With Pierre Trudeau: April, 1982 (Famous Blue Trenchcoat). Armond White loved it.’
If you’re roasting someone or think you’re taking the piss, it works better if that person is in the room, plus all of that other stuff about family. I suppose the best he can say now is that he wasn’t mocking Charles’ mother, just his third cousin…and fourth cousin. Even if someone had done an impersonation of Charles it would have been better, I mean, not good, but pleasing to the family-minded palate. Where’s Rich Little, or to a lesser extent, Andre-Phillippe Gagnon?
Maybe they should’ve got Scott Thompson?
This man, it seems, tried to follow in the great drag tradition, but from what I see, this is less ‘Monty Python-esque’ and more, ‘ Did Terry Jones just swallow Eric Idle? What kind of demonry is that?’ I don’t think that is how you want your fifteen minutes to go. Or maybe he does, I don’t know, I’m not his mother–hey, g’nite, folks you’re great, try the veal!
This is nothing but hearsay. We don’t know his exact words; even the woman to whom he spoke admits she can’t remember exactly what he said.
Actually, a lot of politicians and the foreign office are coming out in support of Charles. And surprisingly, in the comment sections of many British newssites, ordinary people are backing his right to speak out on this issue.
Which is a change from all the other times he has spoken out.
Until he becomes the monarch, he can say what he likes. What’s the point of having a future head of state without opinions…..oh wait, that’s our current Head of State.
I don’t usually read the comments section on news sites (too often it makes me lose all faith in humanity!) but I’ve been very interested in reading them on this one. The reaction has been really interesting.
I think there is also a difference between him saying “this reminds me of xyz” and “England should do xyz”. This was a conversation with a member of the public, and was relevant to her experiences as she had conveyed them to Charles. I think that the monarch should be able to comment on current events.
Perhaps my view of the incident is clouded by the fact that I think he is right (and expressing fact not opinion).
Me too LNG.
Exactly, Genevieve! I’m so sick of people white washing what Putin is doing. This is a time when a Hitler comparison is very accurate. A tour of pier 21 is not the right place for a discussion? Well Neville Chamberlain, When would be a good time for that conversation? Let the people in Ukraine know when it would be more appropriate to discuss loss of freedom.
Charles picks whatever is convenient. Doesn’t say anything about English PM’s that allowed Hitler to do whatever he liked in the beginning and the English policy of appeasement (via PM Neville Chamberlain) that permitted Hitler to start his invasion of European countries.
Charlies is an idiot.
He made a brief comment to the woman, concerning Hitler, not a detailed political analysis about what leaders supported whom in the 1930’s. Because if he did that, then he’d been jumped on for that as well.
You seem to be super confused about what happened and how Prince Charles paid a role in Neville Chamberlain going for appeasement. You do realize Prince Charles was not even born at that point in time? Right? He had nothing to do with what the PM did back then. It is beyond ridiculous you keep spouting this all over this page.
She is Cherry-picking history to suit her apparent distaste for England. England was part of an *alliance* of countries who chose to wait and see. Chamberlain sold it to parliament, but to blame him for what followed is dangerously simplistic and absurd. My country turned a blind eye too, until the war washed up on our shores.
And what does Prince Charles have to do with Chamberlain anyway? I don’t see her point, except to use “appeasement” to call Charles an uneducated idiot (of which he is neither).
Some of you criticizing him for a passing remark in a private conversation-we don’t have the actual words either-it’s this older woman’s recollection: how long would you handle this type of scrutiny? You think you could say the politically correct, appropriate thing all the time in every conversation you ever have? And God forbid someone you spoke with paraphrased what you had said to them, or inferred something else-yet you’re still held responsible for those words too? Yikes. Glad I’m not living in this type of fishbowl.
This is exactly why I come here, and why I miss it when I can’t. Where else will offhand comments by Prince Charles turn into an intelligent debate on genocide, the events leading to WWII, our responsibilities as world citizens and international current events?
Celebitchy is absolutely my favorite blog.
Agreed.
So true.
Charles will NEVER abdicate.
Nor should Charles abdicate. William and his light weight wife would just roll over like cardboard cut outs with no strength.
Charles may not be the favorite for the press, but he’s no lightweight and this comment on Putin shows he s not weak. William just does not seem ready for the world stage, world leaders would make mince meat out of William at this point, whereas Charles for all his opinions has been through the fire and can hold his own.
Prince Charles is right. IMO. He is not the first to say this.
Why tiptoe around what Putin is doing. I’m so glad Charles said it.
Putin would just run through any country he feels like it if no one says anything.
Charles is taking a stand on what he sees and good for him in doing so, let the Charles bashers whine, how he’s a Prince and shouldn’t speak, IMO he did the right thing.
New respect to Prince Charles, IMO. He has said what many are thinking.
He’s a 1000% right!
Prince Charles….. how disappointing. All the fine living, prestige education, pedigree and years spend on refining diplomacy didn’t pay off.
abdication comment : Labour MP Mike Gapes calls for prince to ‘abdicate and stand for election’ if he wants to make controversial statements.
Seems right. This was no the time to make such a statement and make things complicated for those who handle foreign relations.
Grandstanding, pure and simple. Silly, really.
I just want to point out that this is what a woman SAYS Prince Charles said. He wasn’t on record, and there is no actual proof that he said this. Perhaps she was excited to get her story in the press, and this angle makes it exciting?
It is very possible he said these things, but it is also possible that this is exaggeration. I think it is leading to great conversation, but we should take the story with a grain of salt.
This is not a Godwin’s Law, hyperbolic comparison, Putin and his policies *are* exactly in line with what Hitler did– blaming and persecuting gays, Jews, and trade unionists, and strong-arming nearby nations.
Good for Charles, nice to hear someone in a leadership position speaking the truth, and not being afraid to do it.
Putin – which Jews did he persecute? and trade unionists? Things are not well in Russia but let’s not participate in the information war…
yanina, Hitler did other things besides persecuting Jews. The comparison is not being made on that point. Hitler also invaded neighboring countries under the guise of protecting Germans, as Putin is invading neighboring countries under the guise of protecting Russians.
Tiffany – I was replying to a statement of John, and he happened to have mentioned Jews, etc. The history is full of leaders, which brought countries to questionable wars. Why then don’t we compare everyone, say, to W. Bush, in memory of his Iraq invasion? W. defended American interests as Putin defended Russian.
The way I see it, Putin was pushed to get back former Russian military port because American involvement in Ukraine endangers Russian defense strategy.
Bush did not make a land grab. I don’t agree with his policies at all, but he did not try to claim the land of soverign countries for his own.
Putin wasn’t pushed to get territory because of American involvement. He seized the opportunity when the Ukrainian government went into turmoil after Ukrainian citizens protested from November 2013 to February 2014 in favor of CLOSER ties to the Eurozone. The parliamentary removal of the pro-Russian Ukrainian president created an unstable situation and Putin pounced. Yes, the desire of the Ukrainians to be closer to Europe and to be less involved with Russia surely threatened Putin, but that can not be blamed on the US.
“Closer ties to Europe” in this case is an euphemism for NATO missiles right on the border of Russia. This action entirely destroys full Russia’s defense strategy. The coup in Ukraine was sponsored by the US. You are talking about the play act, I’m talking about scenario and a director.
And to make it clearer: If we are to find an “Argo” analogy – you say that Affleck is there to make a movie, while I say that in reality he is there to develop a CIA operation.
If we are talking about play act going on…
How about soldiers that arrived in Crimea before the vote, while Putin says there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine. Many international reporters on the street interviewed these soldiers, and they said that they ARE from Russia, yet Putin says they weren’t there.
Yes, there is a lot of pretending going on in this situation. Just as you are skeptical about western news sources, I would recommend that you are also skeptical about Russian news sources, and those sources in Ukraine that are heavily influenced by Russia.
Tiffany, I actually don’t read Russian or Ukrainian newspapers or watch Russian or Ukrainian TV either. But I do believe, say, an interview of a former head of Israel Intelligence service (listened to it on Internet through Israel TV program) and I find his analysis on a threat to Russian defense strategy extremely realistic. Because, firstly, Israel is an ally of the US, so it’s not like he is influenced by Russia and secondly, Israel secret service is probably one the best in the world.
Putin needs to be called out; I don’t see what Charles said was in any way wrong. Putin is a monster.
I apologize in advance for a weak knowledge of European politics. So, quick question – when has anyone here been last time in Ukraine? I happened to visit it this past February, and I believe that there are serious systemic problems with the economy, and it’s not all Russia’s fault. Secondly, I believe that the US is unjustifiably strongly involved in the Ukrainian crisis, and that they basically sponsored it (the crisis). In fact, it’s a common view both in Russia and Ukraine. Thirdly, as absurd as it looks in the modern world but to a certain extent this crisis is provoked by very bad personal relationships between Obama and Putin. Bottom line, I think that such strong, questionable statements like PC’s “Hitler” reference is very dangerous in current situation…
No, the crappy economy in Ukraine isn’t solely due to Russia.
But if this crisis is really ‘provoked’ by Putin and Obama’s rocky relationship, wouldn’t that say more about Putin and how he handles these types of relationships?
Has the ‘West’ been involved in Ukraine? Oh yes. But for me, I’m looking more at Russian nationalism and how Putin has been playing with it for years, well before Obama. Nationalism, especially playing the Crimea card, is a very good distraction for Putin, pulls attention from what might actually going on with the Russian economy and politics.
ETA: While you could make a comparison to the 2008 war in Georgia, I don’t think it’s accurate in this case.
Those rocky relationships says a lot both about Putin and Obama as well as about a process of political decision making both in Russia and the US. And while we are quick to criticize Russia and are well aware of their weaknesses, I’m more disappointed in the US – just because I held higher expectations about them.
The possibility of NATO in Ukraine has screwed up all Russia’s defense strategy, so Putin jumped to get back a former strategic Russian military port…Was there really a necessity for Obama to focus his vendetta on that vulnerable equilibrium? I don’t think so.
I would not be worried about so-called nationalism. I, personally, haven’t noticed wide-spread military mood among the general population. Nobody takes their Congress talking heads seriously, and people seem to access the state of economy quite fairly as dreadful.
Yanina, I dont see how this can be labeled as the fault of the US. Obama spoke out strongly in regards to the military action of Russia against its soverign neighbor, but he did not CAUSE this situation. He had a reaction, as most leaders did. I think that invading a neighboring country IS justifible reason for international sanctions against the invading country.
Tiffany — the situation has been developing for years. you are talking about peaceful demonstrations and I’m talking about military groups from Western Ukraine, which were funded by the US. Were you there? Or did you just watch TV? I happened to be there in February, talked to people, to journalists.
The situation started in the Ukraine after President Yanukovych of Ukraine rejected an agreement with the European Union in 2013. There were THOUSANDS of Ukrainians peacefully protesting against their government because they wanted more ties to Eurozone, and LESS association with Russia. The Ukrainian people protested in favor of the Euro deal for months (November 2013-February 2014)! The police fought back against the protestors with violence, then the Ukrainian President was removed by parlimentary action.
NONE of this had anything to do with Obama. It had to do with the dissatisfaction of the citizens of the Ukraine. Putin used the unrest and the government upheaval as a moment to strike and take a step towards his vision of a reunited USSR.
the situation has started developing so much earlier and it’s so much deeper than the TV picture that you are describing.
it’s almost midnight here, so I don’t have time to describe in full the interconnections of the Russian/Ukrainian economy during 300+ years together. But the bottom line is that the idea was to put Nato on border with Russia and Russia can’t afford it. It’s as simple as this.
Russia feels threatened by the idea of NATO being close to them, that I agree. At the same time, the threat of an idea, not the threat of war or dire consequences, is NOT a justifiable reason to send troops into your neighbors country. Canada is more socialist than the US, yet we aren’t sending tanks and soldiers into their country.
Both Canada and US are members of the same alliance – NATO. So, under no circumstances they can pose a threat to each other. Having an enemy at your border is a completely different situation. And it’s not an abstract “idea” – it’s a strategy, which Obama has been funding for years. I suggest that you study the Caribean (sp?) crisis of 1960s and reaction of Americans to the Soviet intention to place missiles on Cuba.
If you mean by socialism in Canada, a pension as a guaranteed help for old people or a free education, then I don’t see how it is related to a question that we are discussing.
Sorry, WHAT?! “In fact, it’s a common view both in Russia and Ukraine.”??? No, it’s not. But you know what, a lot of Russian people, who were sent by Russian government to live in Ukraine long time ago, like to say this. They repeat it and repeat. And people in Russia believe it! Do you know why? Because they don’t live in Ukraine and love to hate US or Europe. There was US influense, no doubt, but nothing to compare with Russian influence.
See, if “a lot of Russian people, who were sent by Russian government to live in Ukraine long time ago, like to say this and people in Russia believe it” – then it is in fact a common view in Russia and Ukraine 🙂 So, I’m glad that you re-confirmed it. They aren’t some second sort citizens in Ukraine just because they happen to be Russian by origin, right? Their opinion is valid and taken into account, correct? And after the last 300 years, whether you like this or not, all Russians and Ukrainians are within one (not 6) degrees of separation…So, yes, we all have relatives in both countries and yes, we do worry about them.
Secondly, a disagreement with certain politicians certainly does not imply personal hatred towards the US or EU or Russia or Ukraine…
You didn’t get it, I mean not citizens, but politics and people from bussiness. Like Kivalov, Kostysev, you know? Of course, there are always people who believe in “US made it all”. But it’s not common in Ukraine when we speak about Maidan. The common thing is paid throlls in internet with such opinion. I’m working in internet so I know how there’re trying to make such “common opinions”.
My mother is Russian by the way. So do not try with “second sort citizens in Ukraine just because they happen to be Russian by origin”, please. I think you perfectly know what I’m talking about. About people who got power and money because of Yanykovich. And who just happen to be Russians and a lot of them didn’t even live in Ukraine before this. But maybe if you don’t live in Ukraine or your relatives here don’t pay attention to such things, it’s hard to undrestand.
Nonsense. Putin’s a lot smarter.
I agree with Charles if that is in fact what he said. However I don’t think Putin gives a crap. He’s got his own agenda. Very scary indeed.
http://i.imgur.com/FF4A99h.jpg
Did anyone here see Putin at the Webby Awards? http://youtu.be/_omlfbVCfKM
What’s worse is that people are clutching their pearls over a comment said by a stodgy old Royal. “Head of State” my left foot, in all but name. No one cares what these people think. That went out the door a long time ago. Most people nowadays just look at them as an out dated, archaic system. And those that do look up to them must not have a brain in their heads with which to think for themselves.
I actually feel sorry for the Royals because their opinion in the realm of politics won’t ever matter. They lost credibility when they were born with a crown on their heads. They’re not even allowed to be political.
Didn’t Hellary already say that?
Yes. In march.
What’s wrong with Charles’s hands?
Charles looks better a bit older, better looking. But he and William seem to do a lot of hand wringing. Anyone else noticed that? They also seem to have puffy, red hands which suggests to me that they need to drink more water.
Their puffy hands are an inherited trait. Philip has the same hands. I don’t know what genetic conditions causes fat hands/fingers that become progressively worse with age.
Philip’s hands became so puffy over the years that he had to remove his rings. They still look puffy though not as bad as they used to be though I think he is shrinking overall as a result of his age.
But this isn’t really use of Godwin’s Law semantically. Escaping the Nazis was this woman’s experience and was the genesis of the conversation. Putin was being used analogously to Hitler, not the reverse.
Best comment on the thread.
Interesting comments. My view for what it’s worth is that Charles should not have given his opinion on this matter. He can’t have it both ways. At the moment the govt are fighting the guardian newspaper because they want the release of letters Charles wrote to ministers. The paper beliefs that he used his status to lobby for his private interests. Now if he wants to give opinions, it will be open season on these letters. Will the public like his views, with they say he is entitled to his opinion. The govt have been fighting this case for 9 years.
Basically the the huge majority of people in Crimea want to return to Russia, it was given away to Ukraine to govern on a whim of Nikita Khrushchev who gave the peninsula to his native land in 1954. This didn’t really matter until the soviet union collapsed, then the strongly ‘pro-Russian’ Crimeans were stuck with the Ukraine as their overlord and have been trying to separate from the Ukraine ever since, there have been periodic tussles since 1991 between Kiev and Moscow over Crimean autonomy. Just because Putin helped organized a referendum in the Crimea doesn’t make it’s results untrue, many Western observers have said this is overwhelmingly what the people of the Crimea want. Unfortunately US media has rarely reported that fact, it doesn’t fit well with their ‘Big bad Putin’ line.
The recent massive unrest in Ukraine was simply the catalyst to re-invigorate the Independent Crimea faction, unfortunately Crimea is in no position economically to go it alone and they are looking to get back to being Russian. Hardly equated to a Hitler like invasion when its what the people want. If Putin decides to takeover all of the Ukraine then that would be an entirely different matter.
Putin did not cause the current unrest in the Ukraine, he basically wanted them to pay their massive multi billion dollar energy bills and was prepared to reek financial mayhem on them if they didn’t and was demanding serious concessions. The USA on the other hand were said by several respected media /political observers to be funding and advising the opposition activists because they wanted a new Ukraine regime that was on their side. Alas it backfired spectacularly because Putin is a way better chess player than Obama, he saw it as the perfect opportunity to re-absorb the Crimea with their peoples blessing
I know many American readers here won’t like to think that US interference in the internal politics of the Ukraine brought this whole sticky mess to the boil but unfortunately it’s true, and far from helping a new friendlier regime to power it has actually put the Ukraine in danger of being taken over by Russia and the USA can and will not be able to do a thing about it, unless they talk the rest of the world into going to war yet a again.
What about pro-Russian people who started shooting in Odessa? Situation in Donetsk and Lugansk? Is it poor “Crimea”, who “have been trying to separate from the Ukraine ever since”?.. And it was not actually Khrushchev, who gave away Crimea. And it wasn’t whim, there were a lot of reasons, read about this. Putin like to repeat this lies, and many people in Russia believe him…
And it’s very sad that you didn’t mention Crimean tatars… Awful things that they’re going through since Crimea is Russian Federation. Yes, of course, it’s US fault.
Yes indeed it is one unholy mess, unfortunately the fuse has been lit and there will always be those who will follow mob mentality , emotions are running high on all sides now and it will be very hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
As for the Tartars there has always been an ethnic problem there ever since the days of the Ottoman empire when they were responsible for selling millions of Russians and Ukrainians into slavery to the Ottoman empire.
It’s never as simple as black and white or goodies v baddies, I don’t think it’s the USA’s fault , they were simply the careless match that sparked the dry tinder which had been building up for decades even centuries of internal conflict have led to this , it’s just that in it’s zeal to make every nation in the world ‘an American style democracy’ it very often charges into situations with tunnel vision and without looking at possible consequences , which plays very nicely into the hands of dictators and opportunists. As always its innocent civilians that bare the brunt of the aftermath.
Flower, you said: “Putin did not cause the current unrest in the Ukraine.” Please tell, where is Yanykovich right now or was a month ago? In US? No, in Rostov, RF. Where Berkut officers who beat girls on Maidan? In US? No, Crimea, RF. About Putin “wanted them to pay their massive multi billion dollar energy bills”… Wow I guess you don’t know, Ukrainians use their own gas and this massive multi billion bills belongs to big corporations – which owned partly… by russian people. Or to ukranians who run to Rostov. Maybe protective tsar Putin could just ask Yanykovich to pay them. Or was he searching for payment in Crimea? I guess it’s “American democracy style’s” fault that pro-Kremlin people owned mostly everything in my city, in my country.
US play this game, one more time, no doubt. But Putin cause A LOT OF things in Ukraine.
Why are there harassment for Crimea tatars right now? Because “they were responsible for selling millions of Russians and Ukrainians into slavery to the Ottoman empire.”?! So Putin decided it’s their time to pay for things that they haven’t done and russians ok with it? Jesus.
“The USA on the other hand were said by several respected media /political observers to be funding and advising the opposition activists because they wanted a new Ukraine regime that was on their side.”
Sorry, this is not true. I understand it’s hard to imagine that millions of people can organize something like this by themself, but majority did it freely. There were some paid activists, yes.
All Ukraine wanted a new regime. But people on Maidan didn’t want to see pro-EU and pro-US politics there. I think majority in Ukraine don’t want Russia or EU or US. But nobody plays this game dirtier than Russian government. To the neighbor-brother, to another nations, to the their own people. And I know about Syria and another awful things. But Putin just won’t stop, because he uses unbelievable level of propaganda and simply gigantic lies.
As Ukrainian and living in Ukraine I agree with you.
Olga, thank you! =)