Bette Midler gave an interview to The Telegraph about her enduring life in entertainment. She’s 68 years old and has been in showbiz for about 50 years. That’s some awe-inspiring longevity. Bette’s not in huge demand these days in Hollywood, but she does well for herself. She’s promtoing a new album called It’s the Girls, which contains covers of her favorite girl bands as a child. She also covers TLC’s “Waterfalls,” which sounds pretty cool. Bette has aome advice for young pop stars and actresses. She says you don’t have to pretend to be wh-res to get ahead in life. Specifically, Bette calls out Ariana Grande. I’m sensing some shades of Rashida Jones in this talk:
Actresses must be immaculate: “Women now, they [have to] pose. They don’t want those ugly pictures of them on the internet, and I don’t blame them. It’s like a war! It’s poisonous, totally toxic. If you get on that red carpet, you better be prepared for the results, truly.”
Girl bands of the past: “The Ronettes, The Chiffons, The Marvelettes, The Crystals … So evocative. They were completely and utterly wholesome and whimsical. And optimistic. The music was very optimistic and upbeat. The ballads were sometimes sad but you knew things were going to turn out in the end. The music wasn’t bleak. This was before Bob Dylan, you know.”
She covers TLC’s “Waterfalls”: “I couldn’t think of a girl group that was modern who had a song as meaningful as [the one by] TLC. I couldn’t find one. I mean, who are you talking about? The Spice Girls?” She looks aghast. “I like Destiny’s Child. I think that was the last great girl band there was.”
The pr0nification of pop: “It’s terrible! It’s always surprising to see someone like Ariana Grande with that silly high voice, a very wholesome voice, slithering around on a couch looking so ridiculous. I mean, it’s silly beyond belief and I don’t know who’s telling her to do it. I wish they’d stop. But it’s not my business, I’m not her mother. Or her manager. Maybe they tell them that’s what you’ve got to do. Sex sells. Sex has always sold.”
Does it sell more now? “Well whatever strictures there were have fallen apart. And now it’s whatever you feel like doing you can do. I mean, apparently people really like to pretend they’re having sex. They really like to slap each other’s butts. I mean, don’t ask me. It’s beyond me. I’m too old. I don’t know what the end game is going to be. I don’t know where you go from all that sex in your twenties. I don’t know how you sustain it. Trust your talent. You don’t have to make a whore out of yourself to get ahead. You really don’t.”
She doesn’t use plastic in her house: “The whole world has become disposable. People use things once, then they throw it away. I grew up really frugal. It was the end of the war and people didn’t have anything. They had to take care of what they had. They had to polish their shoes. I mean, you say polish your shoes to someone nowadays and they don’t know what you’re talking about!”
Her career summary: “It was a wonderful life. I did good with it. I didn’t shame anybody. I didn’t mortify anybody. I didn’t take my clothes off. I wasn’t caught in flagrante. The fact that they never caught me is really kind of the thrill.”
[From Telegraph]
I’m struck by a few things in this interview: (1) The wh-re talk is inflammatory and not terribly productive. Once the “w” word comes out, all hope for rational conversation disappears; (2) Bette is very concerned about the use of plastics in every day life. She believes it’s a major issue, and yeah… if the fabled trash island in the Atlantic Ocean does exist, then it is an important problem. Some people believe that using plastics inside the home is hazardous, which is interesting. Bette recently tweeted, “I wish America would spend even half as much time complaining about plastics in our oceans as we do about actresses’ plastic surgery.” Is that an admission of plastic surgery from Bette?
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet & WENN
Yep, sex sells. Bette knows this, seeing as though she got her start performing in bath houses and all that.
…. And happily exposing her breasts on stage.
I loooove Bette Midler, true star and great performer. I am disappointed with comment, using such a strong language for a very young girl is not really necessary. She really forgets where she came from, her groundbracking riske performances at the well known Bath house was considered chic at those time. And yes, helped her to become what she is today.
Lol. Not much has changed, has it? I just wish that, if the industry isn’t going to stop pushing young girls to be hypersexualized beings, at least they’d start giving us more male eye-candy to “balance things out” hahahaha
I’d like to be able to objectify some glorious semi-nude male bodies while the males slobber over Ariana’s Lolita image!!!
So true, does Bette remember the “Divine Miss M” and “The Harlettes” or “The Staggering Harlettes”? Bette referring to her audience as “dirty mother#^^@s” whilst baring her breasts and telling dirty jokes. So Bette the ladies before you during the burlesque days put their hands on the door handle, but you opened that door, these women are walking through it.
Well, I don’t know if that’s an admission but it is rather obvious that Bette has had some work. She looks incredible for being 68. In fact, she looks more fantastic than ever and not overly done. Streisand has gone a bit overboard and looks too youthful for her age. I liked Bette’s comments on her long-standing marriage. She seems like an interesting lady.
I agree that her work is obvious but not “overdone.” But where is the line? If we can tell she has had work done, doesn’t that mean she is overdone? Not like Robin Wright (of course she 20 yrs younger) where you wonder if there has been work done at all?
CBers, please chime in with women in Hollywood over 45 where you wonder if work has been done?
I don’t know anymore. :::bangs head against desk:::
This would be much better if she was criticized the system that forces young girls to sexualize themselves in order to be successful. Instead of raving like a mad woman, ARIANA GRANDE IS WHORE. Blame the sexist industry, not a bratty 21 year old child star.
I agree with you. I’m not saying the women/girls do not have some responsibility for their own choices, but the pressure from the industry is much to blame. And calling someone a “wh-re” for being sexual just isn’t productive, as Bedhead said.
I agree with. Criticize the system that makes those young pop singers feel they have to do that to get ahead. Plus calling out Ariana in such a public way, naming her specifically and basically implying she’s whoring herself to be famous and acting like a slut in her videos…it’s kind of unfair. Even if she thinks that, there are a lot of young singers who are doing it (not all), and Ariana is very young and if the higher ups are telling her this is the way to do it and she sees people like Miley and Madonna before her, well, it’s not her fault if she thinks that the way to become a star. It’s the system that needs to be readjusted. I don’t have a problem with sensual music videos, but it disturbs me how far over the line things have gone, but maybe that’s just me and my age (I’m 53). I don’t find anyone grabbing their crotch and humping things while singing all that sensual. Too blatant and crass for me, but again…everyone is different. I do wish that talented singers relied a bit more on their actual talent because while in some cases the singer may have to do all the extraneous stuff because they aren’t much of a singer, others have amazing voices that get lost in all the sideshow.
I also think it’s easy for older women to sometimes forget that they were risque in their youth and that they did things at the time that might have been seen as trashy and pushing boundaires. Sex sells and always has, and it’s a fine line between something gorgeous and something trashy. I just hope that the young girls who are doing it are okay with what they are doing and aren’t being pushed into it because their managers or whoever are telling them it’s the only way.
She did, though. She specifically said “I don’t know who’s telling her to do that, but they should stop.” Ariana Grande is one of the few singers who can actually sing (although, God knows I wish I could understand what the heck she was singing). She doesn’t need to be naked to garner attention – unless she wants to be.
@Santia: Thank you. I’m not sure how that is lost on everyone. Bette criticized the system, not specifically the singers.
She then went on to separately discuss sexual promiscuity.
She kind of criticized the system, but she did also name names of people not conforming to her expectations of ladylike propriety and called people wh-res as an insult.
I think she called out Grande because she genuinely believes that she has a very good voice and is talented. And bratty. Good example either way.
I agree. If she had just made this a conversation about how some women in the entertainment industry are coerced to be sexual beyond what they’re okay with to make money, while still being able acknowledging that that’s not the case with every female entertainer who is sexual, I don’t think there’d be reason to take offense. Instead, she just decides that Ariana Grande and all of them are being made to do it and calls them wh-res.
As for Ariana herself, she’s sort of in a middle ground place in the industry. She’s more risque than someone like Taylor Swift or Lorde, but not as sexual as Miley Cyrus, Nicki Minaj, or Rihanna. She has like two songs that are explicitly about sex (and even those are more about HER pleasure and expectations than the guy’s). She wears leotards, mini-skirts, cropped tops, and hot pants at times, but I’ve also seen her in knee-length skirts, more conservative dresses, and even jeans and jerseys, and hasn’t done nudity. She doesn’t seem to want to be shocking like Miley, but she also seems to like sexy clothes and want to experiment with a more sexual side without everything being about sexual shock. She did an interview recently with either billboard or some other magazine where she basically says she does enjoy mixing it up between conservative clothing and sexy clothing, she’ll wear what she wants, she so far hasn’t been made to take off more than what she wants by any music industry authority figure yet. She also said that if someone pressured her like that, she thinks she’d be strong enough to assert herself and something about her family, but at the same time it would be hard for her because there’s also a part of her that’s a people-pleaser. It was interesting, I think all entertainers struggle with wanting to be themselves and do what they want vs. wanting to please others. I hope she continues to make her choices and is able to not let herself get walked over.
THIS.
I so agree with her about Ariana Grande.
I was staring at pics of Ariana and her douche brother this morning on Daily Mail and I was mesmerized by their teletubbies eyes. So fake.
Bette is right. How do you keep up with the sex selling in this industry in your 20s? This is what the market wants from artists now and they’re all giving all they’ve got to be in the game. I bet in 5 years time Ariana will be a fading memory and we’ll remember her and her diva antics with a ‘Ariana who?’
And this is also what leads to the continued and ageist obsession with female youth while we cast out women over 40. This is all connected. Our culture is sexually obsessed with young women and these women play into it and then they hit their late 30’s and society turns on them for another 25 year old. Over and over and over again. A vicious cycle. Playing this game in your 20’s will not protect you from this. And you become part of the culture that sneers at older women and calls them “cougars.”
It’s like Madonna. When she was young it’s sexy, but then if you keep trying to do the same thing as you get older and older…not so much. Let’s face it, a woman in her fifties, even in great shape, is just not going to be sexy in the same way that a woman in her twenties is. I’m not saying she can’t be sexy, but I think it needs to be done in a more subtle way as you age, whereas if you keep trying to do the same things you did at 21 it just comes off as desperate and ewwww.
I disagree. Young women are not at all to blame for the ageism against older women just because of the way they dress or for being sexual. Ageism is a pancultural thing that has existed long before young female pop stars started wearing short skirts, and young women being sexually modest will not make ageism go away. It’s not about young women covering up, it’s about the teaching that younger women are more desirable based on youth, beauty standards, health, and fertility. The younger woman could be fully clothed in an elegant gown like Emma Watson and Selena Gomez or jeans and a tee like Lorde, but still be held above someone like, say, Madonna or Cher in a skimpy costume based on that beauty standard.
“You don’t have to make a whore out of yourself to get ahead.” Oh, but if you do, it happens so much faster! 😀
She’s correct to some degree. As far as we have come as a gender, women still feel they have to take their clothes off or sell sex to get ahead. It’s not empowerment if someone is telling you to do it or your doing it just to sell records or whatever else your pushing. This is where the message gets clouded.
I seems like women take their clothes off and call it empowerment because they don’t want to be criticized for it. “Oh me getting naked? Not a big deal, it’s for feminism!”
Or, you know, it could be that some women actually are empowered by not having to be sexually modest, and it’s a rebellion thing for them.
Well I definitely agree with that. It’s not an empowering situation if a woman is being made by someone else to dress a certain way or be sexual and she doesn’t want to, or if she’s choosing to do it but it’s not what she wants, it’s just her only way to make it.
The island does exist, it’s not fabled. http://www.chrisjordan.com/gallery/midway/#CF000313%2018×24
Bette is aging, so her mindset is as well. The ‘W’ word is tough to stay away from after a lifetime in a business where women are expendable.
I wish she had not used that word but I get her underlying point. On the one hand, it’s a good thing that women are allowed to be in charge of their own sexuality right now and “own” it if you will. But we are still operating under a centuries old power structure in which women are only deemed valuable if they play into being “hot” for straight men. So even while these women are “empowering” themselves they are still keeping that system afloat. Now, we have an even deeper problem where women who ::don’t:: do “hot” things all the time are deemed ” sexless” or ” weak” or “not empowered.” We still have the same problems we did years ago we have just put a nicer finish on it. We are still defining women first and foremost by how many straight ( white) men want to have sex with them. And women play into this too. They participate in it. It’s depressing.
Very well said. Except I would say there are female singers/actresses who don’t participate and who are very successful because they are either very talented or they play another game. Or both. See Reese Witherspoon (whatever you may think of the American citizen) or Sara Bareilles for reference. To name just two. It is possible but you do need true talent if you don’t want to be “slithering around on a couch looking so ridiculous”. I cannot picture Ariana Grande being successful in the long term without it. Maybe I’m wrong or it’s an unfair assumption but is she good enough? I don’t think so. The childlike face and voice don’t really appeal to adult audiences, do they?
The older I get (and I’m only 30), the more grating these girls are to me. Ariana, Miley, Katy etc. Put it away and for God’s sake, don’t put cupcakes on it. We’ve seen it all by now. Madonna took care of that 20/25 years ago. I don’t think it’s necessary in order for them to transition to adult. See Taylor Swift for reference (again, whatever you may think of her), she’s doing it right.
Yeah, that’s a whole lot of judgment from me but this oversexed stuff makes me tired.
” it is possible but you do need true talent…”
Exactly. How sad is it that there is such a dearth of true talent in the “arts” these days?
Whitney Houston always kept it classy.
” Now, we have an even deeper problem where women who ::don’t:: do “hot” things all the time are deemed ” sexless” or ” weak” or “not empowered.”
This is what bothers me about current society. The narrative has become such that even other women will bash those who aren’t objectifying themselves. Not saying all, but many. It’s like we’ve internalized the patriarchy instead of railing against it.
I’ve almost never encountered other *women* saying or implying that if a woman doesn’t do those things, she isn’t empowered, is sexless, and is weak, but it definitely does exist and it’s just as problematic as saying that a woman can’t be empowered or sexually liberated by going against modesty. One example I do see of this is on Jezebel- the attitude that some of the feminists there have toward muslims and women who wear the hijab. Some of them assume that every single woman wearing one is oppressed and brainwashed by the patriarchy, and get really arrogant and nasty with anyone who tries to school them.
There is more than one way for a woman to be empowered and sexually liberated, and I think it differs from person to person based on beliefs, preferences, and lived experience. Sometimes people in general, including liberals and feminists struggle to keep this in mind and be respectful of it. We automatically go by our own personal feelings about something, and since we find that thing repressive or exploitative on a personal level, we automatically assume that the woman wearing or doing whatever that thing happens to be is disempowered and has no agency. We can sometimes take on an aggressive and superior ‘Mama knows best’ attitude when it comes to other women do with their bodies, while at the same time we’ve been railing against paternalism and talking about agency and a woman’s bodily autonomy for ages.
Well put. I agree mostly except I don’t think flaunting your body and simulating sex to sell yourself qualifies as being in control of one’s sexuality. As long as you’re the one deciding who when why how and where you have sex, you’re in control. When you need to prove you’re sexuality by baring it all and singing about how good you fuck and how easily a man can get it from you, then you’re not in control at all, you’re giving your control over to the ‘system’ of women are for sex and that’s it.
Well said!!
I think it’s the blantant in -your-face aspect of it that bothers me. It embarasses me for them because I don’t think it’s sensual or sexy, just trashy. Yeah, you can simulate having sex and you can grab your genitals. Ok, so…? Does that make you a better performer? There’s style, there’s the implication of sex…that can be so much more attractive imo, and a singer can have that sensual appeal without having to take off a single piece of clothing. It’s the look, the movements, the “making love to the camera” intangible kind of thing that IS the person who is singing. They own it and it’s part of them and it comes through in the music. It’s the whole person and their aura and presence and how they feel the music and sing it. It’s not about grabbing your crotch. To me that’s like women looking at men, and thinking if I act like a man then I’m a feminist and empowered. I don’t know. I’m not a prude, but I don’t find the cram-it-down-my-throat sexuality in a lot of the music today sexy.
But what if a woman actually wants to be sexually open and enjoys rejecting the constraints of modesty? What if it’s something she didn’t have the freedom to do before? What if a woman likes sexy costumes and finds them badass? What if male and female singers want to sing songs about sex? It is, after all, a natural and pleasurable part of life. If all that is the case, is the woman still not in control just because some people don’t approve of open sexuality and are only ok with private or subtle sexuality?
@otaku fairy
This is the impression I get from Beyonce. A song/video like Partition is a genuine expression of how much she relishes her own sexuality.
I draw the line based on how it makes me feel. I see Ariana Grande writhing on stage dressed like a toddler and I am disturbed. I can tell that I’m supposed to find her sexy and enticing, but she looks like a damn *child* and that is not going to turn me on in any capacity, and I’m side-eyeing the people who are turned on by it. But I hear Partition (or see the video) and I want to find my guy and bone him till we’re stupid. Madonna’s the same way. Her music, especially the older stuff, is like throwing the libido engine into high gear. Britney Spears on the other hand, no. That only ever evoked “exploitation” to me.
It’s a fine line, but I think women can embrace their bodies and sexuality and be free and open with both and it can be sexy and empowering. But most of pop culture is made up of the exploitative side.
I don’t understand how saying people should be more concerned about the environment than plastic surgery is proof Bette had surgery. She’s been an environmentalist for a long time. I’m surprised she called out Ariana considering others are so much worse. I think it’s her babyface that throws people off.
People take different paths to fame and around fame once they have it. The clearest, easiest path is via sex, or a sexual image. At some point, however, they need to transition into another phase, because it can’t all be about sex appeal forever. People age, have families, age some more. (See, Madonna.) It’s perfectly fine for Arianna etc to shake it in hopes of making it big. But she have to mix it up at some point (See, Beyonce) if she wants to stay there.
Bette definitely as a “get off my lawn” crankiness to her. I imagine someone like Cher would have answered that question quite differently.
“It’s perfectly fine for Arianna etc to shake it in hopes of making it big. But she have to mix it up at some point (See, Beyonce) if she wants to stay there.”
Except Beyonce is not mixing it up. Beyonce – at 34 –is in a time warp, wearing the same things and doing the same dances she wore 15 and 10 years ago. That’s the problem with this business; it infantilizes women and urges them to maintain the sex kitten role, long after they are no longer kittens.
@ Santia: Truth! Thank you for your comments — they have been so spot on!
JLO
Even if you don’t use plastic, per se, bottles are rinsed with some plastic chemicals and cans have seals. So much is packaged that way, including fresh produce.
Yes, that seems really, really hard to achieve.
I watched this Frontline(?) or other documentary on it a few years ago. I actually couldn’t fall asleep after. It was more upsetting than horror flicks I’ve seen.
Yeah the BPA lining, etc.
Gross.
FYI Annie’s organic soups have a non BPA-lining.
I wonder why no one ever talks about The Great Pacific Garbage Patch?
I’m still hoping Massachusetts grocery stores will stop carrying plastic bags.
I like Annies and I did not know that, thanks.
“Greatest Generation” my ass. They bought into the idea that plastic is for one-and-done use and it will take us *decades* to even make a dent in the environmental disaster they’ve left us.
It’s not just the greatest generation.
I f*cking can’t stand “The Greatest Generation” bullsh*t.
I love Brokaw but that term makes me so stabby.
Yeah, but on the flip side, I’m really sick of places like Salon that blame everything on ‘other’ generations, whether it be the ‘greatest generation’, ‘boomers’, what have you. Everything that happens is the result of history and the present. The present becomes history. And so on.
Could not agree with her more. Love her. She speaks the truth.
I agree with Bette 100%. Every female artist using her body for ratings and sales is whoring herself out. They’re basically saying ‘I Know my talent isn’t enough to get me anywhere so I’ll use my Tits and ass, too’. And it makes me want to puke when these same women want to wave their ‘feminism’ around at the same time they’re sashaying in their panties. Feminism is the exact opposite of using your body as a tool.
Yes, I almost fell over watching one show where Beyonce, while gyrating in her skivvies in a routine fit for a stripper, flashed “FEMINISM” on a screen behind her. Until I see Ed Sheeran or Sting or Usher gyrating on a stage in underwear, with their scrotum in danger of falling out, I won’t see her or Ariana’s or Miley’s or Nikki’s antics as “feminism.” No matter what you want to call it, you are still being exploited for the sexual pleasure of others.
Only if you’re someone who automatically views sexuality and immodesty as exploitation. To exploit, by the way, means to harm someone or take unfair advantage of them.
Feminism is not about women having to meet any particular standard of sexual modesty in order to prove that they have talent or anything else, and it’s certainly not about policing and scarlet-lettering women for doing what they want with their own bodies and physical appearances. Feminism is not a chastity club, a dress code, or any other type of traditional values movement- and the modesty movement is certainly not feminism. It’s about human rights and equality, and bodily and sexual autonomy are definitely a part of that- not just in the legal sense, but in the societal sense as well.
There’s nothing wrong with saying that being sexual doesn’t automatically equal feminism. But calling women whores for being immodest or arbitrarily deciding that a woman can’t call herself a feminist just because you dissaprove of her clothing and sexuality is not.
If we really believe that womens’ worth and status are not to be determined by sexuality and physical appearance, we’ll prove it by not participating in sexual bullying. Otherwise, it’s all just talk.
Thank you for the lecture on feminism; however, it was totally unnecessary. At its core, feminism is about equality. And until I see men having to strip down naked to garner views, sell records, etc., I will not buy into any of these women’s so-called “feminism” while debasing themselves. It has nothing to do with sexuality. Beyonce, Nikki, et al can be as sexual as they want to be; it should have nothing to do with singing a song and/or selling a record. Sick and tired of people pretending to be above it all and/or insinuating others are prudes if you don’t want to see other people’s bits while hearing a song. Yes, I said it and I stand by it.
You say it’s not about sexuality, but you said yourself that they’re debasing themselves- which means lowering themselves in value- by being sexual in a way that you don’t approve of. When we say that someone is lowering themselves in value because we don’t approve of their sexuality, the implication is that that’s where peoples’ value lies in the first place- on what they do or don’t do sexually. And we all know what kinds of problems have resulted when people and societies decide that the value of a person or group of people is raised or lowered by sexuality.
I didn’t call you a prude though, and the thing is, you don’t have to approve of anything. If you don’t approve of nudity, semi-nudity, or revealing clothes, prefer that singers and people in the entertainment industry abstain from those things, there are always plenty of places, artists, and sources of entertainment you are free to turn to that are within your personal comfort zone, and that doesn’t make you a prude. That part only comes in when a person starts dictating to others what they should and should not be doing with their bodies, insulting them for it, excluding them from movements (like feminism) because of it, or deciding that people are less than based on sexuality.
I agree with both of you in part Santia and Otaku fairy. I don’t believe women have to live up to any prudish idea of modesty, or that we should police women for being sexual.
BUT, here we aren’t talking about their sexual expression. They are using their bodies and sex as a way to sell records, pure and simple. And I think that is why it bothers a lot of people in a way that they can’t quite put their finger on it. They might do it out of their own free will, but the truth is that the REASON they are doing it is because it will get them further, faster. More records. So in a way, it plays right into the “system’s” hands, no? They tell us they do it because it “empowers” them; except I don’t think it gives them power so much as attention.This is the way I see it, at least.
So, as horrible as the word is, I think when Bette said they didn’t need to make a w*ore out of themselves, what she was telling them is: Don’t sell your sexuality to get ahead because you are a SINGER.
Some singers are more sensual, others are less. It can come across or not. But don’t SELL it to get ahead. That’s what I got from it, anyway.
Have always loved Bette- and still do. What a voice! I think what she said has merit. And totally off-topic- what is it about AG’s brother??? He really wants his 15 mins!
I love this woman, she is right on all points. there is a different with sexual scenes before and now. now we have striptease shows and the song is only serves as a background.
That ‘fabled’ trash island in the Atlantic most certainly does exist; I’ve worked on the research boats that collected samples and data. You can’t throw a net into the ocean without pulling up plastic. So I commend her dedication to reducing plastics in her life. I need to do the same.
Bette Midler does not live in a glass house. Distinctly remember her at the Greek Theater in Fall of 1973 using the F word repeatedly, over and over, echoing thru Griffith Park. She also did a portion of the show in a wheelchair in a blue mermaid suit that was just unnecessary. Most tired performers grab a stool. This was after she was relieved of her show in Vegas for the foul language. Nobody wanted to listen to her there either. She was trying to boost her career. The way I see it, it’s all the same thing. People trying to get ahead or hold onto their career. I’ve always loved her, her singing, respected her; but her comments this week border on the hypocritical. She’s forgetting how hard she fought to get where she is today.
What bothers me about Ariana Grande isn’t that she’s slithering around stage, its that her team very purposefully play up the Lolita look in my mind. It also doesn’t help that she looks about 14 naturally.
Exactly. I was shocked when I looked up her age and saw she was over twenty. Grande’s team is clearly playing up her appeal as jailbait. I think it should be called out.
I really, really wish everyone would refrain from using wh_ _ _ and sl_ _ in their vocabulary.
I agree with you, but internalized misogyny is one hell of a drug, and sexual puritanism is probably the gateway drug. (Or is it the other way around?) You can be a liberal and a feminist, but still internalize purity culture, rape culture, and the message that women have not agency, and it shows up in the things people say. When you don’t base your worth and status and that of all women on sexual purity, you don’t go around calling other women things like that, you don’t spew slut-shaming tropes and expressions or try to exclude other women from feminism based on sex, and you certainly don’t feel the need to use wh-re or prostitute- you know, a group of marginalized women- as an insult. And even when you don’t care for a woman’s decision, you don’t take on this “Any woman who does X is forced into it and exploited’ stance.
I’m going to the library today and researching the history of feminism and the women’s suffrage movement.
She’s right on the money with this. Love Bette!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it’s strange that she’s calling out Ariana Grande. Ariana has one of the best voices in pop music right now. If she wants to slither around on stage like a harlot why shouldn’t she? Because at the end of the day, Ariana can still bring a whole stadium to its feet simply by standing at a microphone and singing a song.
Exactly, and the same can be said for other women in the music industry as well. I know we all have different opinions about which singers are talented and which ones are not. Some have legendary voices, and others don’t, but are still good singers and not what I could call talentless. Mariah Carey, Patti Labelle, Christina Aguilera, Beyonce, Jennifer Hudson, and Pink are examples of female singers I’d put in those two categories. They didn’t have to be sexually modest and avoid putting sexuality in their stuff in order to prove to people they had some talent or that they had more going on than sexual shock, and I don’t think Ariana has to either.
I suspect she called out Ariana precisely because she has real talent. It’s perplexing why someone who can actually sing has to resort to selling sex. Ariana isn’t another JLo or Madonna with just modest talent
How else would you describe Ariana’s Lolita persona or some of these other starlettes who fe they DO have to behave that way? If you wouldn’t call it wh-reish and say that they don’t NEED to present themselves that way, what would you call it and how would you suggest to them?
Semantics aside, I think the larger issue for me is that Bette is making a value judgment on another woman, period.
In other words, it’s only her perception that these women are “whoring” themselves out when many of them might be perfectly comfortable with expressing their sexuality in an open way. She’s projecting and it’s not really fair.
Others here and elsewhere have had no trouble talking about women being pressured to be more sexual than they want without slurs and personal attacks, without implying that every single woman who wears sexy clothes or is sexual is automatically an exploited little victim, and without the use of whorephobia. It’s not that hard. I think intent is an issue- if the messenger’s intent and belief is “Hey, I think what women do with their bodies should be a choice, that women are capable of making these decisions for themselves, don’ t want people’s worth based on either sexual purity or cookie-cutter sex appeal, and don’t want to see women pressured in to doing things they don’t want to do- or not doing things they want to do- just to make others happy because that’s their only option,” that will be the message they get across.
That’s very different from someone who’s belief deep down, whether they’re fully aware of it or not, is “Women who do x are not feminists, women who do X are exploited victims being made to do what they do because I say so and can’t possibly choose such a thing without being coerced and pressured, women who are sexual in a way I don’t like are less than and to blame for our problems, and ew, wh*res. I already feel that women who aren’t sex workers are above those who are to begin with anyway, so I have no problem using wh*re and prostitutes as labels to criticize with anyway.” And it shows in what they say.
Wrong place.
“Trust your talent. You don’t have to make a wh-re out of yourself to get ahead. You really don’t.” Spoken like a true hypocrate. I know everybody just luuuurves Bette Midler, but she doesn’t have a good voice, she isn’t a good dancer or writer. She barely carries a tune and her voice is so nasal, no good vibrato, so……she gained popularity when she was young slinging around and purposely jiggling her giants boobs for horny soldiers!! Wow! I can’t beleive she said that. Talk about denial. That’s as bad as JLo calling out female singers on AI for having a weak voice – HA!!!!
Totally agree with Bette
Zzzzz. Women have always been sexualized by the media and the entertainment industry. This is not something new.
Stanning for her TLC love, though.
Ariana has responded on twitter to Bette Midler’s comments, and I think she did it in a totally classy and spot on way. She tweeted a picture of Bette Midler in one of her skimpy mermaid outfits from back in the day and wrote: “Bette was always a feminist who stood for women being able to do what the F they wanted without judgment! Not sure where that Bette went but I want that sexy mermaid back! Always a fan no matter what my love. All love here.”
Here’s a link to it: http://www.etonline.com/news/154412_ariana_grande_s_classy_response_to_bette_midler_always_a_fan_no_matter_what/
Glad she wasn’t afraid to stand up for herself.
Otaku Fairy you are fabulous. That is all.