Yesterday, we talked about how Hunger Games star Amandla Stenberg exchanged words with Kylie Jenner about her new cornrows. I predicted the Saturday hairstyle wouldn’t last long for Kylie because she never sticks with any ‘do for long. That’s exactly what happened. I’m including pap photos of Kylie out and about yesterday with loose hair. And she posted this picture ^^^ of herself looking like a Kim-esque real doll.
Several follow-up details have emerged. Andy Cohen labelled Amandla as his “Jackh*le of the Day” because Cohen is a terrible person. He called a 16-year-old girl a jackh*le!
Meanwhile, Kylie ignored the fallout of her hairdo in favor of keeping up with her usual Kardashian routine of shopping and self promotion.
It’s almost time. Get on The List at http://t.co/rl4eaLDC2h
Some @kendallandkylie surprises real soon!
— Kylie Jenner (@KylieJenner) July 12, 2015
Amandla chose to continue the conversation in a civilized manner. She posted more statements on appropriation to her Twitter page.
words by me pic.twitter.com/g0HapkvfAt
— Amandla Stenberg (@amandlastenberg) July 13, 2015
End the "angry black girl" narrative. It's just another attempt to undermine certain perspectives. I have strong opinions. I am not angry.
— Amandla Stenberg (@amandlastenberg) July 13, 2015
Amandla behaves much like Zendaya does on social media. She’s calm and collected, and she takes time to research and craft responses just like Z does. Kylie’s not listening, but perhaps Amandla’s words will have an impact elsewhere.
Kylie received some celebrity support from none other than Justin Bieber, who has no business lecturing anyone about racism. He’s already forgiven himself with a bathtub baptism for his own bad behavior, so Swaggy wrote, “Guys leave her alone … Saying she’s racist because she wants her hair in braids is ridiculous. let’s focus on the bigger picture and instead of fighting over something stupid let’s do something about equality.”
Oh, and guess who has cornrows now? Miley Cyrus coincidentally (?) showed off her new hairdo on Sunday.
Photos courtesy of Kylie Jenner on Instagram, Amandla Stendberg on Twitter, Fame/Flynet & WENN
Poor Miley. No one noticed her for five minutes …
IKR? She might as well carry a sign that says Pay Attention to Me!
Well finger banging her new girlfriend didn’t work.
Seriously. This is exactly what I mean by using facets of other people to adorn and make yourself seem exotic. All these amazing causes she could support and let speak for itself she tarnishes AGAIN and AGAIN with her stunt shows.
Geez Miley, you could have waited a week and not looked quite so desperate.
It could HAVE been a coincidence and not a decision related to Kylie at all, since Miley had her hair done like this over the weekend and it doesn’t look like she’s actually ‘flaunting’ anything, just on a day to day errand and not dropping an “I woke up like dissss” caption of herself with the cornrows on twitter or instagram.
When can we expect Bristol Palin and Donald Trump to weigh in on this?
Oh but why would they need to? Justin Bieber, America’s beacon of integrity and grace, has already spoken. Even so, Sarah Palin is probably spackling on some bronzer as we speak, getting ready to film a YouTube video from her bathroom about how this is all Obama’s fault because PETA.
And the liberal media. Don’t forget the liberal media.
I wonder how all the people from yesterday’s thread who didn’t get it because “it’s just a hairstyle” feel about The Biebs sanctioning their stance? That would be enough for me to do a 180.
Kitten, he’s just TELLING THE TRUTH! You can’t handle the truth! Gawd, you’re so sensitive.
Please, he belongs to Canada not America.
HA! Great point, Kit. If Bieber is endorsing something you know it has to be at least a little bit asinine.
As a Canadian I will once again apologize for Beiber. Miley is all on your guys.
Nope, don’t blame Canada, he was just born here. YOU made him a star, so Peace Out.
No Kylie does not have to respond but I have seen her interviews and her pap strolls ,she looks like a trouble unhappy young girl. Completely unapproachable compared to the rest of her family ,maybe this is just her defense mechanism, but it looks like something deeply disturbs her.
There is something about her that makes my heart go out to her.
Being abandoned by her parents at such a young age is probably what deeply disturbs her.
I don’t wanna poor little rich girl Kylie but she has chosen this path.
Apparently people have spoken with her about this and she does it anyway. kim and her mother have said she doesn’t listen.
Feel bad for people who don’t have family and friends as knowledgeable and helpful as her. she has chosen to take a hard path.
But what choice did Kylie have other than to fend for herself and try to make her own way? Her parents – her legal guardians – as well as older siblings, abandoned their responsibility to finish raising her.
If we buy the line put out by Kris Jenner and Kim Kardashian are we not buying into everything about Kris and Kim and gee…they’re such good people at heart? Do you see the narrative they’ve constructed about a minor in their own family and how you are already jumping on buying it?
Kylie is too young to have her entire life in her own hands. She likely doesn’t listen to Kris and Kim because they’ve not shown they care about her fully anyway so why would she trust them now? I say this as a now middle aged woman who was in a similar upbringing in a horrible family.
We need to be very careful about attacking Kylie. She is not the problem here. Despite her looks and actions she is a child very much still and she needs guidance from others since her family doesn’t seem to care.
Her family – her parents, acting like children desperate for attention themselves and ignoring their minors still in their charge – they are the problem.
What the heck are you guys talking about? In what world was this girl ‘abandoned’ by her parents and siblings? Was she swaddled and left on a stranger’s doorstep? Did they toss a Striper Pole out the car window and then drive off when Kylie got out to retrieve it? Was she forced to go out on the stroll to survive because her parents refused to feed and clothe her? Did they ‘abandon’ Kendall Jenner as well?
Kylie will be 18-years-old on August 10th. It will be interesting to see if she breaks away from her ‘families abuse’ or nestles deeper in the Kardashian fold.
Great job for being informed and eloquent about the topic, Amanda!
Oh thank you little white boy! Now the women folk know what to do and what to think! 😉
I don’t have a daughter but if I did and she was a fan of these Kardashan people (no I don’t know how to spell it and no I don’t care) I would be deeply disturbed and questioning my parenting.
I’m sure by the time I have kids there’ll be a new brand of reality family but seriously, agreed. I had a cousin I’d never met visit my house during a family reunion and I died a slow death (because we were getting along so well before this) when she turned on the TV and excitedly sat down to watch the Kardashians.
It’s a sad state of affairs when Bieber is the voice of reason.
No one is surprised about Miley. She is using every minority/community for her own interests. And she gets rewarded for it.
JB’s ignorance is shocking.
Can’t blame it on growing up in Canada.
Just shows people have such a narrow view of life.
Google “Justin Bieber tells racist jokes on camera.” His ignorance is disheartening, but not all that shocking, sadly.
He is another one that uses POC to increase his street cred. He has no clue and doesn’t care to find out about anything.
Not to mention to take the fall for him when he gets himself in trouble
Co-sign forever, Swack and Amy.
Yup.
Well, if JUSTIN BIEBER says to stop, then we all should. Or risk the egging of our lives.
LOL
hahahahahaha
eggsactly!
I don’t agree with racial or cultural copyrights on clothing, hairstyles, jewelry or anything else. People should be able to wear what they want and not be attacked for it. Having said that, Bieber is the last person I’d want coming to my defense.
I agree with this. The whole of 90s and 2000s hairstyles and fashion should be considered racist then.
It’s not just about the hairstyle. There are plenty of comments in yesterday’s article that discuss what Amandla is getting at
I understand her point, but everything in America now is about being too politically correct, and I think “cultural appropriation” is thrown around waaaay too easily.
It can be a good thing, not just negative. i hate the Kardashian, but i wouldn’t crucify this girl for her hairstyle.
Agreed, so are you equally as defensive to the black women who do get attacked for wearing their hair that way? Such as the black meteorologist who was told she could not wear her hair natural and either had to wear a wig/perm her hair or quit?
She quit.
I would support the meteorologist equally. Even in an industry where people are expected to change their appearance all the time (TV news in all forms is the worst form of manipulated homogenized entertainment.)
I don’t think much of Kylie, but I think shifting the blame for incredibly racist acts of discrimination against black women and their natural hair onto a silly girl who wore braids is also displacement. Use her as an example, if you like, for how society may tolerate things in white girls that it doesn’t tolerate in black girls, but she isn’t the problem. At least, not in this one little instance. Amandla differs from Zendaya in that respect.
ETA: And Bieber is a giant asshat in this as in all things.
I would guess that Amandla and Kylie “know” each other socially and this may not have been the first time this came up between them. Racial appropriation is something Amandla has spoken passionately about on more than one ocassion. Check out her YouTube vids.
Amandla needs to stop dealing with the Stupids. Her future is waaaaay too promising for them and they won’t ever ‘get’ it. I can’t wait to see what she does in a few years when she comes into her own.
God bless her for speaking out though.
The absolute last thing anyone needs is some overpriveledged, undereducated twat like Beiber weighing in on this. He needs to learn to shut up. However, I do think it’s far too much fuss about hair. If white people think black hairstyles are beautiful and want to try them why is that a bad thing? It’s a sign of an integrated culture. Also it would be like condemning Beyoncé and co for wearing long blonde straight hairpieces. Hair is about self expression and it’s up to the individual.
There was a lot of discussion about this on yesterday’s KJ/Amandla thread. You may want to go back and read some of it, because a lot of other posters put this much more beautifully and eloquently than I could. Basically:
There’s a problem with white people “trying on” elements of black culture that have a deep cultural significance. Corn rows are a type of protective style that is sometimes necessary to keep hair intact, and to Kylie Jenner it’s just a trivialized fashion trend, as evidenced by the fact that she’s already changed her hair. But while Kylie has the benefit of being able to take out her cornrows and move on, a black woman cannot take off her blackness and stop being profiled, discriminated against, or killed. As far as Beyoncé wearing straight, blonde hair, this was discussed yesterday too (and I learned a lot– I had never thought as deeply into this particular aspect of the discussion myself). It can represent something problematic when Beyoncé wears straight, light, “white-looking” hair, because a lot of times women of color have to do this to look more “acceptable” in society. To assimilate, as many posters yesterday said. To keep from being fired or harassed or discriminated against for wearing their hair in its natural state.
I hope this doesn’t come off as condescending. There was simply a lot of great discussion about this yesterday. I learned a lot myself, and I wanted to share. My apologies to any posters if I butchered the points you tried to make yesterday.
But how about the braids that the Dutch people used to wear in the early days? Is this now only something that the Dutch can do? Or the kilt, can only Scottish wear these? This is confusing. Next to that, I always thought that copying is the ultimate compliment. I don’t think Kylie (or Miley for that matter) wear the braids to put black women down.
Shambles: wasn’t yesterday’s post eye opening in so many ways? I found many of the comments disheartening, but I’m so glad that many of us chose to learn something new and educate ourselves as opposed to continuously arguing about our rights. I’m glad Amandla sparked this discussion.
ILoveKate, if I’m a Scottish person living in America, wearing my kilt, I know the entire structure of the country I’m in wasn’t built to systematically oppress me. I know that this particular country wasn’t built on the slave labor of my people, who were then treated like sub humans for hundreds of years. I feel pretty confident that I can walk down the street without having to worry about being harassed by law enforcement simply for wearing my kilt. The difference is that here, in America, there is a racially-charged history that demands sensitivity and respect. That’s just the way it is. And by trying to make these comparative arguments, we miss the point. Even if Scots were the only people allowed to wear kilts, that really has nothing to do with this situation and doesn’t make Amandla’s points any less valid.
Almond Joy: absolutely! I’m really grateful to posters like you, Tifzlan, the Eternal Side Eye, Dee, and all who provided such great insight yesterday. I learned so much.
@almondjoy, I agree. I very rarely read all the comments on a particular article, but yesterday I did and learned quite a bit. I did not know people were not given jobs because of cornrows or told not to wear them. I think cornrows are beautiful and see nothing wrong with them in a business setting. It’s better than some greasy, dirty hair I see on people (and I mean all people) when they are working.
Well said, Shambles
@shambles I really appreciate what you have said, can a regular white person who genuinely likes cornrows wear them or is that considered cultural appropriation? I only ask because there are so many parts of other cultures that are so beautiful and would love try and perhaps embrace but certainly don’t want to insult anyone. Would lover to hear your thoughts.
@shambles I asked you question below but replied to the wrong comment. Would love to hear your thoughts
@Sarah “Also it would be like condemning Beyoncé and co for wearing long blonde straight hairpieces.”
This was discussed ad nauseam yesterday.
Beyonce’s appearance, hair and all, is largely what has contributed to her success. I have seen with my own eyes comments being made that mocked Beyonce when she wears her hair in box braids because apparently she looks too ethnic. Beyonce’s career has been able to become amazingly successful largely in part because she is a light skinned black woman with fair features who wears her hair straight and blonde. When is the last time we had a super successful dark skinned black woman in the music industry? Society doesn’t respond well to dark skinned black women, and Lena Horne, much like Beyonce was another celebrity who can credit her fair skin and features to her success. Lena Horne was quoted as saying, “I was unique because I was the kind of black that white people could accept.”
I hope this helps get the point across. THIS is the message that Amandla is trying to get out there. Kylie’s behavior perpetuates the idea that it’s good to only be “kind of” black. It’s also not just about hair because the Kardashians are the biggest offenders out there right now when it comes to appropriating black culture.
Even a busted clock is right twice a day. I never thought I’d agree with anything Justin Bieber said but for once he’s actually making sense. White women wearing cornrows is no more offensive than black women straightening their hair and dying it different colors. It’s hair, for Christ’s sake. Do whatever you want with it.
Yep.
@Shambles – You are amazing. That is all. 🙂
Ilovekate – these days you won’t find many of my fellow Scottish citizens taking issue with anyone wearing a kilt. HOWEVER if during the days when the English had outlawed our language, dress and culture, stolen our land and slaughtered, imprisoned and subjugated Scottish people, then YES they would have absolutely would have taken issue with some privileged English twat swanning about in a kilt. In short when there was active harmful prejudice and persecution of Scottish people by England, it would have been a problem.
When you compare apples with cucumbers it suggests that you don’t have a very strong argument.
Kylie Jenner has a bunch of problems, agreed? But, she is also 17 and having fun with her beauty and fashion looks. I don’t see a problem there.
Kylie’s fashion is not really the problem. It’s a symptom of a bigger problem.
You can’t see what you don’t look for.
or what you refuse to even look at.
Yes you can. But you can also be smart in picking your battles and also not ganging up on someone who everyone pretty much agrees is 1. too young, and 2. ill informed. That’s just meanness disguised as “educating”.
‘Ganging up on’
Let’s examine this choice of words. People discussing this topic amongst themselves or a young woman politely addressing Kylie is apparently ganging up on her. So what method exists to address this issue? Or perhaps the solution is this topic shouldn’t be discussed, we should pat Kylie on the head and give her a cookie? Wasn’t Amandla being ganged up on when an adult man referred to a 16 yr old girl (I’m guessing you didn’t know that she is actually younger than the Jenner you’re so worried about) as a jackhole in a mocking TV segment?
There’s a longstanding pattern of white people becoming the victim no matter what they’ve done wrong. Your concern over Kylie and your perception she’s too young to act with intelligence or compassion when a girl YOUNGER than her wrote a well researched response speaks volumes.
Wow that is one vacant and plastic looking teenager. Her life is so sad.
Intelligent young women like Amandla and Zendaya give me hope though.
+1,000,000
Amen Lucy!!!
She’s more intelligent and socially conscious then people twice her age. She’s an amazing young woman for sure.
Seriously, nothing good in her life so far. I hope one day her future has something of substance. Someone who truly loves her, someone who supports her and thinks she’s better than selling her sex.
Tizflan’s comment on this topic from yesterday has really stayed with me. Viewing through that lens, I love that Amandla hasn’t simply let it drop. Her comments are intelligent and articulate, and those people on Twitter who are calling her angry are simply lazy (like Kylie’s response). She is thought provoking and they don’t want to think, they just want to pass judgement.
I think my generation (gen X) was probably the last that didn’t grow up with a culturally sensitive education. I remember dressing up as Pocahontas in 1st grade for Halloween, and being proud of my long black braids, beads and feathered headdress. However, neither I , nor my parents, understood the cultural significance of that costume. I thought that since I am Jewish, I understood racism because I have experienced anti-semitism. But I see that that’s a very simplistic view – they aren’t the same at all. My skin is white, and if I choose to, I can conceal my cultural heritage. Others don’t have that luxury and are subject to a completely different set of standards…I can’t relate to that at all. This is an issue that should not be causally dismissed, and I am really glad that these younger generations are being exposed to women like Amandla, and that even a gen X’er like me can learn from her.
Awesome comment, and I agree with you entirely.
Another Xer here. I remember dressing up in a parody of indigenous dress for football games because our school mascot was “the Warriors.” I wore a stick-on bindi sometimes in college and thought I looked so cool. We grew up with Schoolhouse Rock and “the Great American Melting Pot”, and were taught that the best and most enlightened way to be was “not to see color.” While I still believe that everyone should be judged according to his or her own merits, the “oh, I don’t see color” approach covers up a lot of social inequalities that we have to face in order to move forward.
I’m proud of my generation, but I’m even prouder of the next one coming up. Today’s teens (obviously with some exceptions ranging from Kylie Jenner on the “relatively harmless” side to Dylan Roof on the frightening and extreme side), for the most part seem to be more accepting, more compassionate, more open minded and more socially conscious than any other generation so far. I’m not worried about our future when “the kids take over.” I’m optimistic and think we’ll be in pretty good hands.
This x1000. I’m a Korean immigrant and my husband is white, so my daughter is mixed. We both want to make sure she grows up understanding that she is going to be afforded things that I and others in my family before me were not.
I agree with this, I think a lot of these issues stem from people being sheltered or having the freedom to do something in their youth and suddenly finding out its now not acceptable. It’s hard to think outside of the frame of the world you grew up in without effort. I still remember the slow horror look on a friend’s face in my childhood when she laughingly called someone a wigga and then looked at me and seemed to realize exactly what she was saying.
What I can say is she apologized profusely, was brought to tears, and learned from that moment. Whenever people dismiss Zendaya or Amandla for making these intelligent comments I know they don’t understand, because long before social media was huge I had to hand write a letter to this same girl explaining the past and history to her. Making her aware of the legacy that lay at her feet. It can positively break you back sometimes and God knows some days I’m too angry to muster but I always believe in fighting ignorance with words and education.
Even if you cover your ears and shut your eyes maybe my words will echo to the ear of someone who is ready to learn.
We are all going to make mistakes…that is a given. I think the true test is whether or not we choose to learn from them. I’ve lived almost 40 yrs with a certain point of view, and it’s an odd thing to have it turned on its head by a complete stranger, when I least expected it. But I think that’s the beauty of the Internet – we can’t be sheltered anymore unless we actively choose to be.
I haven’t heard the term “wigga” in a very long time, and it’s interesting that you bring it up. It struck a nerve. Growing up in (mostly white) suburban New Jersey, I never gave the origin of that word much thought. I knew what it meant, and had heard it used on several occasions, but I only applied it to black culture and history in the most cursory way. I didn’t think about the “igga” part, and all the awful weight it carried, just the “w”…that the white kid was trying (and obviously failing) to be black. I see the arrogance now, but I had no real frame of reference for it back then. And perhaps this casual form of racism is more insidious because we don’t even see it for what it really is.
Someone above mentioned the “melting pot”, and that was really the foundation of my cultural education. The idea that all cultures melt together into one beautiful soup is lovely, until I think about what it really meant. Then it becomes oppressive….give up your cultural identity, and mold yourself to what white people consider acceptable. Oh, and since we are all now so open minded and color-blind, I’m going to freely use the sacred imagery and history of other cultures however I want. Even if it’s blasphemous or deeply insulting, because we are all just people, right? Let’s remove any stigma by exposing it. It somehow made sense at the time.
I’m really sorry for your experience, Side-Eye. I hope you check back on this thread…thank you for sharing it. I also hope you see my comment in the “thinking out loud” spirit that it was intended. I’m just trying to reframe my thinking, and this seems like a safe place to do it.
Wow Shannon, that truly touched me.
I think I got lucky in that the young woman didn’t argue with me, she didn’t get defensive, as a woman the same age as me she could admit she’d never seen it that way and that she had learned. Seeing her tears really gave me an appreciation that sometimes it’s not maliciousness but just ignorance.
I try to keep that perception that for many it’s misunderstanding and not maliciousness, but I can admit the years have taught me for some it is malicious but NOT ALL. I agree we all are learning more about the world and getting more informed, before I used to be pretty down on how well things were going but with the recent Supreme Court decisions and the removal of the Confederate Flag in many spaces I’ve recently started to feel so optimistic about the way the world is changing.
People ARE making efforts to help make the world a better place for different groups. I think once the greater world at large says, “Hey this isn’t how we treat people” we’ll see other more stubborn people hopefully start to evaluate.
“they don’t want to think, they just want to pass judgement.” … do you see that you’re doing the very same thing…?
Personally, i’ve got a life threatening illness that’s a bit active just now. I see an articulate young woman using someone else’s actions to give herself an opportunity to speak up, shine, be heard, get attention…classify it as any one or more of those motivations, they all work. Good for her. It’s the last thing I need just now however. I’m not ignorant, i’m prioritizing where I put my energy and these days, it’s more about empathy than fighting.
I’m concerned for Kylie Jenner whether she would appreciate that or not. That other one seems to have her ass and her issues covered pretty well and doesn’t need my concern. Especially seeing she has the majority cheering her on and piling on Kylie. Way to go adults. Good job. Not.
Kylie’s main purpose in life seems to be becoming the Instagram version of a cam girl. Show her butt, pout her lips, take plenty of pics and sexualize herself as much as possible. That’s absolutely fine, there’s a million and one tragic cases in the world and she’s doing better than the children who don’t have food and a roof over their heads.
Now her participating in her family side show is totally okay, but when she leaves that lane to make other’s culture a costume she’s gonna get called out. Now, you’ve made up your mind about this issue because you haven’t mentioned anything about it so clearly it’s not something important to you but for many of us this issue takes a front seat before the typical Kardashian idiocy. Kylie has millions to educate herself and she’s old enough to be challenged to be a decent human being. If she can’t do that then she can deal with the comments. No one owes her sympathy for using others.
Looking at the main photo of Kylie, I am curious as to how much money that family spends on cosmetics in a year and how many gallons/litres etc they go through. So much makeup can not be healthy for a person’s skin. Kylie looks much older than her age
Leave Kylie alone. People can wear whatever hairdo they want. This is stupid.
As much as I loath Justin Bieber… I don’t really disagree. Yes, Kylie is ridiculous and undereducated. Kylie is also a minor and given her upbringing… Do we all really need to shame her for her hair? There are actual problems in the world to worry about… Syria, Sudan, Equality… for sure. She’s just a vapid little girl, but public humiliation isn’t how understanding and acceptance is reached. Choose your battles… is this even worth it? I don’t think humiliating a child is going to progress equality at all… when has targeting a child ever done so?
I’m not sure anything that has been said publicly to Kylie on this issue constitutes an “attack.” At least not from Amandla or from us; maybe from some other people. I don’t think she’s been “targeted.” More like, people are trying to educate her and her followers. It’s not “humiliating.”
Also, we can care about Syria and the Sudan and also care about the issue here, which is way bigger than just hair.
I hate to say it too, as I can’t think of anything Justin Bieber has said or done in his life that I agree with, but I agree with his statement. Amandla’s comments pose an appropriate question and dialogue about the media and society in general and it’s treatment and belittlement of African American women. Although, I do feel her commentary is a bit my side is abused more than yours, and let’s be honest until women in general make more than 70+ cents to a man’s dollar I wish we all would work together on the discrimination and the over-sexualization of all women. Amandla’s comments to Kylie are the wrong place and person. Kylie is just a vessel who happens to be young and uneducated. Just because it gets you attention doesn’t mean it is a good thing or the right thing to do either. She needs to aim higher, perhaps her comments would have been better if she had aimed it at the NYT and article on Serena Williams?
I wouldn’t expect a 16-year-old to read the NYT, and I wouldn’t tell her she needs to “aim higher” (although with her intellect she probably could). ITA with the issues you raise about gender inequality. I’d like to see more cooperative work between disenfranchised groups. I’d like to see women’s rights activists working more with queer activists working more with POC, because a rising tide lifts all boats. When one group is benefited, we all benefit from having a more equal and understanding community. Working for women’s rights and working with POC should not be mutually exclusive. I’d like to see more of a “Yes, AND” as opposed to an “or.”
@Amy Tennant I guess I just have a problem with giving any more publicity to the Kardashians which is what this does too. It bothers me that something this important could be attached to them. It also bothers me that a very intelligent 16 year old is so aware of what a stupid Kardashian is wearing for a nanosecond, than media trials of a great American athlete who happens to be an African American women. Yes I guess I am telling her and everyone here to aim higher. Please let’s all not drag the stupid Kardashian into this at all. They make their living off of this we are only helping them.
Fair point.
@Noway-I think you’re looking at it the wrong way. Kylie was hardly the focus of yesterday’s story. Her behavior was just the catalyst that sparked a discussion about an important topic. If anything, this was the rare occasion that a Kardashian’s actions were actually useful in the sense that it generated a conversation about cultural appropriation and racism. Many of our black commenters took the opportunity to educate, and if you read through the comments you saw several people with the light bulb turning on, being illuminated by things they hadn’t thought about before. Kardashian or no Kardashian, that is a great thing.
I think if someone read yesterday’s thread and came away from it thinking “oh no here we are talking about a Kardashian again”, then they missed the point entirely.
My personal opinion? Posts like these are the reason why I’ve been commenting here for five years. I don’t have a ton of f*cks to give about what celebs do in their private time, but I do love to learn and I love topical subjects. Yesterday’s thread is what makes this blog head-and-shoulders above the average gossip site.
I get that it might not be your thing, but don’t ruin it for the rest of us.
@kitten I went back and read yesterday’s topic and most of the comments, and I see what you are saying. Don’t mean to ruin it for anyone, and you are correct the topic is important and the comments are educational.
I still have a bad taste in my mouth as these threads and comments made also help the Kardashian/Jenners as this is how they make money. Celebrity and social media is their brand, and like it or not Amandla and these comments are now helping them in their very shallow world. Sorry if that is distressing, but it is reality.
I’m pretty sure Justin Beiber doesn’t get the issue at all, but in the end I sort of agree. I think Amandla was spot on in her assessment, but it is just an illustration of how internet outrage and backlash work in a not terribly helpful way. She says something intelligent, it goes viral, one fairly oblivious minor become publicly shamed over something, that while part of a much larger problem, is not a huge transgression, and then Kardashian fans and defensive white people try to shame Amandla for her observation.
Amandla is entitled to her opinions – and I do not like or support the Kartrashians so defending any of them is a sad day for me, but Amandla’s attack on K is ‘one’ classic example of why race relations can never move forward. While her ‘attack’ is being praised because it is ‘calm, informed, and eloquent’ it is still attacking someone simply for a style choice.
And since when did ‘black culture’ own cornrows? Bo Derek rocked cornrows a few decades ago and did not suffer this attack. Back in the 80’s plenty of white girls rocked cornrows and nobody gave us grief. I feel like this attack is a big step back – no single culture owns that hair style and to say white people can’t wear then beacause we don’t understand is a bogus farce. This is another situation if ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ where we will always get our hand smacked and the double application applies. There is no defending Amandla on this.
This is simply a manufactured argument to get some attention and it worked.
Race relations will never move forward because people like you continue to be dismissive. Instead of trying to listen and understand you try to shut down the discussion by saying you’re being attacked. Is it really that hard to listen and try to educate yourself?
OMG, it’s so not an attack, and so not about a style choice either. Didn’t we all thrash this out yesterday?
Superficially it might be about hair (and more about some racists who happened to respond to Kylie’s picture), but under the surface it’s about deeply ingrained social problems, of historical subjugation, prejudice, identity, appropriation… hair is the very tip of the iceberg. The problem is a lot of people seem unwilling to look beyond the superficial here to see the underlying issues.
And Justin Bieber, I just can’t with him. Maybe we should have a new axiom. When Bieber agrees with you, it’s a warning sign that you are on the wrong track!
Exactly. It’s the same people over and over again saying “can’t you focus on what’s important?” as a way to silence others. This IS important to people, along with all the other issues that affect how black people are perceived in this country. Ugh. It’s like talking to a wall.
It was depressing because there were so many thoughtful commenters like Tifzlan and Eternal Side-Eye who came out to patiently explain and engage with people who refused to hear them. Sad to see all those incredibly thought-provoking comments wasted on prideful people who had zero desire to understand, only a desire to assert how right they are.
Okay, I see the importance, but not with Kylie she is just a superficial celebrity, and it bothers me that such an important issue would be even attached to a Kardashian at all. Everyone is unwillingly giving Kylie more publicity. Plus, whether you think you are doing it or not by making this much larger point it sounds like criticism of her hair choice, and you are creating people defending her.
I said it in another comment, I think it would be better if she had attached this to the NYT awful Serena Williams article. You have an exemplary athlete who may be the best woman tennis player of all time, and we talk about her body shape. That sucks on so many levels.
Can’t argue about that last point.
Also consider though, regarding your NYT comment, that Amandla and Kylie probably know each other socially. They seem to run in the same circles and probably dated the same boy. You said elsewhere that it’s a shame that that a “very intelligent 16 year old is so aware of what a stupid Kardashian is wearing,” but in this case I’m guessing she’s aware of it because she knows her. That would be another reason Amandla might have chosen to engage on Kylie’s instagram (and remember, she was actually talking to another poster to begin with) than confront the NYT. That said, I would LOVE to see that ignorant NYT columnist get schooled by a 16-year-old, so I hope Amandla does address that article too! I agree that that article is also offensive and disturbing and should be looked at.
I agree. America is supposed to be the “melting pot” of the world… let’s melt already.
Let’s not melt and instead try to coexist while respecting and preserving each other’s cultural identity.
Melt means everyone gives up their unique identity to disappear into the acceptable whiteness of Anerica.
Gotta speak English, gotta have the right textured hair, gotta say please and thank you no matter how you’re abused and insulted.
Yes race relations can’t move forward because a teenager made a comment and everyone else would rather bury their heads in the sand rather than talking about the issues. Oh and it’s so nice on how you insist that Amandla ATTACKED poor little Kylie. This is another problem with race relations everything a black child says is seen as an attack by an angry black adult and not valid commentary, while Kylie sits there and is treated like a toddler (guess which on is actually older).
The “angry black” trope is just another way to disregard anything that someone says. It’s like when a woman says something a man doesn’t like, and he says, “Oh, she must be on the rag.” Dammit.
+1. Spot on. Like Amandla said, “End the ‘angry black girl’ narrative.” Anytime a black woman has something relevant to say, it gets chalked up to, “oh please, not this again. What an angry woman” The funniest part is the word “Attacked” was used and Amandla has been nothing but classy, intelligent and eloquent the entire time.
YUP. Spot the trope in 3…2…1
As if my anger on the absolute racism is somehow a problem. Yea I get angry because in 2015 the fact that this is a problem IS my problem. Please spare me…my anger (and everyone else’s) over racism is valid. Yet we rush to coddle white people because they “aren’t racist” and they “feel attacked”.
Lord take the wheel I cannot
It’s true there is such a thing as “white guilt.” It’s certainly not a good feeling to think your ancestors enslaved others and worked to put them down. It hurts (not as much as the one being subjugated is hurt). It’s uncomfortable. I understand the temptation to bury your head in the sand and say, “everything’s fine, we’re all fine now, that was a long time ago.” I hear people say, “well, my ancestors owned slaves, but I never did, so why pick on me? Your ancestors might have been slaves, but you’re not. This doesn’t affect us now.” The problem is it DOES affect us now. White people still benefit from an unequal system, and it’s going to take a LONG time to get over. (No, electing a black President isn’t the fix. We’re not a post-racial society). We have to be honest and look at what’s really going on and not stay in denial and nurse our hurt feelings.
Well said all, and yes the angry black woman comes up anytime a WOC feels passionate and expresses herself no matter how nicely. There are days I feel like Amandla and I just have to grit my teeth and be as polite as possible so I don’t give anyone anymore fodder for their ignorance, and then there are days I just don’t care anymore.
You’re going to be labeled an angry black woman for something, might as well make it something that counts.
There’s so much more to it than hair though. It isn’t just hair–it’s the entire Kardashian lifestyle. It’s the fact that they seem to believe it’s OK to dabble in another culture as long as it gets them attention. It’s the fact that they only date black men. Even their mother, who has had relationships exclusively with white men until about a year ago is now dating a black man. I have no problem with this, but when your entire family only dates black men and you’re famous for it, it becomes pretty suspect behavior. In the case of Kris Jenner dating Corey Gamble, is it because she actually liked him most out of any other men, or is it because it garnered attention because he’s black? The shtick with this family is that they all only date black men, and that is gross and really exploitative behavior.
It’s the fact that Khloe has been photographed wearing a red bandana and throwing up gang signs. It’s the fact that Kylie wears a grill sometimes. They run in the same circles as Amber Rose and Blac Chyna yet mock them both for being “ghetto” and strippers. It’s the fact that they come from such a privileged background but somehow want to pretend that they’re the “hoodest” of them all…that is until they want to safely fall back into the comfort of their gated community and life of luxury and privilege.
Khloe posted a picture of herself wearing a hat that said “Compton” on it and people went nuts because it was only a day after her sister was accused of appropriating black culture. You may not see anything wrong with that, but I do. Do you think the people of Compton live there because they actually want to, or because they’re bound to the area because they’re poverty stricken and can’t afford to go anywhere else? Who really wants to live in a place filled with sky high crime rates and poverty? What right does this rich, privileged white woman have to try to rep that city in an effort to make herself look hard? It’s disgusting behavior and they do it ALL the time.
Kim married that white basketball player – what was his name? He plays for DC now. Chris… And the other K sister is married to the Scott guy he is white so they all do not date exclusively black guys. You did not prove your argument.
…nice try, cowgirl, but Kris Humphries is half black!
I don’t watch the show or follow them closely outside of blogs and such so I (mistakenly) thought he was white.
@cowgirl27 – Kris Humphries’ father is black, and even if he wasn’t that is only one guy Kim has dated who is even half white. Kris Jenner is dating a black man, Khloe only dates black men with the exception of French Montana but now she’s back to dating a black man as she is currently seeing James Harden. Kendall’s first boyfriend was a black kid she went to school with, and Kylie has dated Jaden Smith and now Tyga. Kourtney is the exception, not the rule. And I actually believe I did a pretty good job of at least coming close to prove my point. They exploit black men for attention. Their shtick is that they date black men. Literally every person in the United States knows the name “Kardashian” and even for people who know nothing else about them, they are famous for 3 things that everyone knows about them: 1) they date black men pretty much exclusively, 2) they have big reportedly fake butts, and most of all 3) Kim has a sex tape. I don’t buy it that this is a coincidence. They know it gets them attention so they keep doing it, hence why Khloe’s butt keeps growing and Kylie is now messing with hers as well. It’s all about whatever can get them the most attention.
Khloe got a lot of heat for trying to joke about this by posting a picture of her and her 2 sisters with the words “The only KKK to let a black man in” written on it. KKK jokes obviously are not funny, and if she cared at all about black people or their history or anything pertaining to them, she wouldn’t make callous, ignorant jokes.
How is this such a massive issue? Forgive me for being ignorant, but I don’t live in America, and I am neither black nor white. How is wearing cornrows an offense to black people? I get that it’s used to “preserve” black hair, but come on, it’s not like every single black person who has cornrows does it like that to maintain their hair. It’s a nice hairstyle, so why can’t people be allowed to appreciate and enjoy it without turning it into a race issue? And at the same time, there have been instances where Amandla has straightened her hair. Is that not cultural appropriation too, since African Americans do not naturally have black hair? I don’t mean to defend either the Kardashians or Bieber. But I’m confused as to how anyone has the right to call someone racist for having their hair in a certain way.
Please look at yesterday’s thread or watch Chris Rock’s Good Hair or read ANYTHING Amandla has posted. She explains it quite well
It’s just not fair to borrow the trappings of another culture and then not say or do anything to help members of that culture or at least try to understand it. Don’t back away from the issues as soon as they become inconvenient.
I can understand that this might be a confusing concept for people who don’t live in the U.S. It’s not about a hairstyle really, although it may seem to be. It’s about owning up to our troubled past as a nation and figuring out how to move forward together.
@Toliveagain, I don’t live in the US (Jamaican) but I am black and I do think it’s a bit silly. I did acknowledge the feelings of the “other side” because I do know that black hair is considered “ugly” and “unprofessional” by a lot of people and that is unfair so work on getting equal treatment. But I still don’t think saying a white person can’t wear braids because it’s considered unprofessional on a black person is the right approach.
Is this argument limited to just a specific type of braid (more than one or two??) because didn’t Chris Pratt recently brag about being able to do french braids in his wife’s hair (which means she wears them), is that cultural appropriation?
Like I said yesterday, Rastafarians have been treated terribly because of their hair – in Jamaica they can’t even join the police force because they would have to shave their hair. But there are people who wear dreads because they like it, and not because they’re a part of the religion. So was Zendaya recently guilty of cultural appropriation? Did she speak on the plights of Rastafarians before she rocked it (for a quick minute)?
It wasn’t just the cornrows though. Like if it was just her with cornrows, maybe it would be different, but the fact that she accompanied with it the caption, “I woke up like dis,” it’s just a white girl appropriating black culture, probably she think she’s very cool and ghetto because she has a black boyfriend. Her boyfriend is just an accessory, like how Kim K. used Reggie Bush as an accessory for years.
I don’t think it was about the hairstyle. If Kylie had just styled her hair that way and then just gone about her daily life as usual (as Miley did with the same hairstyle) rather than posting that disturbing instagram – I doubt it would have triggered a response. It was the pose and the caption that was just the last straw. Amandla wasn’t “overreacting”, she saw exactly what was happening.
When I first read this, I thought Andy Cohen had called Kylie a jackhole. I thought, “OK, that’s a little harsh because of her age, maybe.” Then I reread it and thought, “Wait. He called AMANDLA the jackhole? What?”
I know next to nothing about this Cohen person. Is he the one who had Brandi Glanville on his show, and she threw a glass of something at him? I’m not playing dumb; it’s just there are a lot of people that I only know through Celebitchy coverage. Including, actually, Kylie Jenner. Whoever this guy is, his thinking is shockingly screwed up.
Brava to Amandla. She sounds like an exceptionally smart cookie for one so young, and someone who is using her public platform for good. If she ever tires of acting, I think she should go into journalism, or politics, or become a college professor. I think she’d succeed in any of those fields and would actually contribute to the public discourse. If Kylie doesn’t smarten up, change her ways, maybe get an education and finally distance herself from her family (as an adult), I fear to think what she will become.
It’s not too late for you, Kylie Jenner. A lot of us were pretty clueless teens once upon a time. Listen to your peer here. Learn more about the world than what you can see from your deck chair in Cali.
Andy Cohen is the douche behind all of the Real Housewives. It figures that he would defend Kylie Jenner because he is masterful at exploiting others as well.
Seriously, dude is the newest member of my ‘worthless’ list. It’s such a waste how so many support the big famous name no matter how wrong they are.
Unfortunately, tabloid culture is appropriating the real discussion that needs to be had about racial issues in America.
Instead of focusing on the fashion follies of a handful of overexposed Hollywood teens, can we please get back to holding our educators, legislators, law enforcement and court system accountable for evolving our real society to reflect, what I believe is the sincere desire of the majority to move forward constructively?
Yes, please can we do that.
Amanda is smart, thoughtful, and bold. I totally applaud her.
Amandla’s whole take on this situation has been spot on and much like Zendaya, she appears to be wise beyond her years on this topic. The first two sentences that open her statement, “Black features are beautiful. Black women are not.” are both such strong, important sentences that unfortunately aren’t getting the right attention. This is the bigger picture that people seem to be missing. Again, as I said yesterday in the other post on this topic, the Kardashian women have proved themselves guilty of appropriating black culture repeatedly–whether it’s wearing cornrows, which they’ve all done, or wearing a hat or a shirt that says “Compton” on it, or using black men as a way to garner media attention as being “those daring white women who love black men” which is now their shtick. When faced with Amber Rose or Blac Chyna in a confrontation, they’ve all been pretty obvious that their sentiment is that they’re better than these women. So what it boils down to is that they think they can “dabble” in black culture, but return safely to the comfort of their privilege. How quickly did the Kardashians try to throw Amber Rose under the bus for being a stripper when their entire enterprise is thanks to the fact that Kim had sex on tape and willingly released it to the masses? There is a double standard.
The issue here isn’t just a hairstyle, it’s about the fact that these women think “dabbling” in black culture is fun and a source of entertainment and a way to garner attention, but when it comes down to it, they’ve shown such little respect for many black women who run in the same circles they do. I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it: These women need to stop with their BS and grow up already. The shtick is old. Don’t wear your hair in cornrows and post a caption saying something like “I woke up like DIS” or wearing a grill, or standing on top of a Mercedes truck in Timberland boots wearing a red bandana throwing up gang signs. It’s all so fake and it isn’t their culture.
Wait a minute. Just to preface I hate the Kardashians because I can’t stand celebrities who make money with no definable talent other than their ability to create publicity. However, they can act anyway they want to, and even by your own admission their attire and actions of Timberland boots, red bandanas, grills and throwing up gang signs isn’t African American culture so why does it matter.
I agree with Amandla’s comments that it is disturbing that some African American women’s traits are considered beautiful but the African American woman aren’t. However, I think cornrows probably is really the wrong item, as a lot have said they have been used over the years by others than African American. Maybe a larger booty, but then you run into the point of physical stereotypes, plus many African American women, Nicki Minaj for example are praised for that. It disturbs me to think you feel they are dabbling in black culture, as if anything they may be dabbling in stereotypes which is what they do all around.
Still I think calling out Kylie for this is just a wrong example and to some extent belittles her point by stooping to notice the Kardashian hyper publicity machine.
My noting of Khloe throwing up gang signs and wearing Timbs and Kylie wearing a grill was to support my statement that they try to portray themselves as something they aren’t to garner attention. Poverty and crime isn’t black culture either, but I also noted that Khloe wears a hat that says, “Compton” on it because she tries to pretend she’s something she isn’t. It was another example of them hijacking things that they have no business pretending they can relate to. I also noted that Amber Rose and Blac Chyna were strippers–that isn’t black culture either. I used a lot of examples to express my point. I actually think you missed my point is that’s what you came away from my comment with. Ultimately I was saying that YES, they appropriate black culture to gain attention, but they also are guilty of constantly pretending to be something they aren’t and then when it comes down to brass tacks, they call women who associate with the same people they do and live similar lifestyles to them “ghetto” because at the end of the day it’s all a big act and they still get to go home to their mansions and live lives of privilege.
Of course we can all act anyway we want to, but that doesn’t mean we should and really doesn’t serve as a valid excuse or argument in this debate. There are plenty of people in this world who would be rightfully offended if I wore a dashiki because it is culturally meaningful to them, so just saying that I can wear it because I can do anything I want to is really silly in this instance. The whole point behind this debate is that it should be as simple as this: If something is culturally important or meaningful to someone else, other people should respect that and leave it alone, especially since it means nothing to them.
My entire post is about the fact that these women are guilty of being exploitative and appropriating other cultures that don’t belong to them, that they can’t even relate to.
It disturbs me that it seemed like you were correlating black stereotypes to black culture. If that is not what you meant I apologize. I see your points, just wish this wasn’t attached to the Kardashians as this is how they make money with publicity, and I hate that we are helping them in any way.
I hear you. It’s definitely a much larger issue that deserves to be dealt with without them being attached to it.
@Cait
“Do we all really need to shame [kylie] for her hair”
The irony of this statement has me god smacked. I hope you realize that there are many African American woman who get shamed for their constantly. Because of the texture of our hair, some woman aren’t allowed employment or education. Western media has treated AA hair as ugly and strange.
So please don’t ask others to not shame Kylie. That’s not what’s happening. People are trying to explain their culture and experience so that those who don’t understand have a better view on the situation.
In the end so long as the skin tone is right the guilty party always seems to become the victim. Poor Kylie, getting a thoughtful response from a young lady. Poor poor thing.
For freaking real. So predictable.
Don’t mind me. I’m over here beating my head against the wall.
Those that don’t get it don’t want to get it Amy. I know, frustrating as hell but the discussion must continue. And I applaud Amandla for keeping it going. Her thoughtful, insightful words are not going into a vacuum. Thanks to her words and the discussions had on yesterday’s thread, I for one am more informed than I’ve ever been.
Like I said before there are a few posters I can name by name because it’s remarkable how much effort they’ve put into understanding even if they’re not directly effected. Everyone else is a symptom of the problem, but hey…these people are their real life counterparts. If you wonder who the people are who continuously defend the ‘Redskins’ title, wonder why they can’t wear headdresses, and vote in favor of those desperately trying to take our country backward then you’ve met a few of them on this topic.
I am white – I have a degree in African American studies. When people find out about it they ask me ‘why’ I studied this. I tell them if I had studied French or Spanish they would not be asking me ‘why’. I think Amandla is wrong for calling out Kylie. Black women do not ‘own’ cornrows as a style and if people on here to do not ‘get’ what I am trying to say – which is white people are damned if we do try to integrate and damned if we don’t. I am not defending the K girl. i have never watched one episode of their show and don’t ever plan on doing so in the future but I have always been concerned about race relations. For any race or culture to think they own or have privy to a hairstyle is ‘the step backward’ we cannot afford to support and we cannot let our youth who are figures of celebrity continue to perpetuate divisiveness and expand what already exist. As I posted earlier – Bo Derek did not get called out on her (very famous) cornrows from the move ’10’ and it made her famous. If Amandla wants to pick on the K girl she has plenty to pick on, but she should not try to call ownership on a hairstyle for an entire culture – it really is moving the needle back not forward, regardless of how calm and mature her argument may seem – it is really an immature and damaging thing to do especially with everything going on in our country. We need healing and helpful statements – not statements that tear us farther apart.
@cowgirl27, based on this post you wrote I will ask you why you have a degree in AA studies. With your statement you completely marginalized black women by ignoring the obvious Kardashian sin…I do whatever I want regardless of who or how negatively it impacts a person. I truly doubt that anyone actually cares that she is wearing cornrows, but the fact that she and her family put other cultures (not just black culture) on like a coat is problematic (in the least). Saying that people are overlooking the bigger issues is simply deflection. It’s like a pyramid, yes there are big blocks, but in between are smaller pebbles and sand that are equally as important.
@Tdub30 If cowgirl27 really has a degree in AA studies then she wasn’t paying attention in class. Her only argument seems to be everyone should be free to do what they want regardless of its effect on others.
It is hard to remain calm when people choose to stay ignorant.
that selfie of hers.. wow.. just compare her past picture http://i.imgur.com/wGXCp8X.jpg to that. she got eye-lift, nose job, lip injection and just looks like a complete different person.
It’s so sad. I really think she has body dysmorphic disorder. I know people say that she’s just like Kim but I think she’s a lot worse and I can’t imagine what she’ll look like by the time she’s Kim’s age. So scary and sad for her soul.
She basically aged herself 20 years. Too bad because she really was a cute, fresh-faced girl.
…and breast implants and butt injections. It’s so sad. Her parents are the freaking worst.
+1
I agree, but I blame her older sisters more than I blame her parents. I don’t think Kylie would listen at all to her parents at this point, but she would probably listen to Khloe or Kim if they told her to cool her jets. Instead Khloe seems concerned with trying to be her little sister’s friend and Kim is just loving the fact that Kylie wants to look just like her.
There is a YouTube video clip of Keeping Up with the Kardashians featuring Kylie swinging around on a stripper pole in her parents’ bedroom when she was like 9. Her sisters just stood there laughing like it was cute as she put her finger in her mouth in a pose she actually still does today, and slid up and down the pole. I know we all say it over and over again, but they’re sooo disturbing.
So today’s thread has taught me that either
A. No one read yesterday’s comments
B. No one GETS it yet
C. Some people choose not to care
Yup racism is alive and kicking in 2015. Kudos America
Some people will always choose not to care or feign ignorance, you could plop a thousand word paper down in front of them and they’d sign pitifully and ask why we can’t all get along.
Sadly societies change with generations, not education.
Can’t wait for my generation to get the ball rolling then!
Pretty much.
BEHOLD, the white boy has spoken.
I can’t wait for the day when no one will care about what a Kardashian / Jenner is wearing or doing.
Yes!!!!!!!!
Kim’s pretty much there now. It’s the Jenners that are getting all the attention now.
The only white chick that has ever looked good in cornrows is Bo Derrick. I didn’t think the braid thing was a big deal till I read today that I’m agreeing with Justin B. !! Nooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slightly OT but is there any adult in this girl’s life looking out for her? She is 17 years old and seems to be completely alone. There were pics of her ( that she posted) on the DM website yesterday ( yes I’m ashamed) that just made me so sad for her. I’m not pearl clutchy and am all for “free the nipple” and owning your sexuality, but at 17 – with a 25 year old boyfriend – this is just wrong.
I hope her boyfriend isn’t the only adult around.
I think he is. I honestly believe that is why she has changed so much. Tyga is a predator and is most likely using this girl for money because he barely has his own. I think he started paying attention to her while everyone else in the family was dealing with their own issues and living their lives. She idolizes Kim and sees what kind of women her boyfriend likes and since they are similar, she started changing herself. Very sad.
She comes from a family of self absorbed, vapid morons. Sadly, there is no one looking out for her which is why she looks 35 at 17 years old and has had a laundry list of procedures done to her face and body. Her nipples are always hard in her photos because they’re pierced–she confirmed that in a SnapChat video.
I’m not pearl clutch-y either, but this new age of social media has me feeling really weirded out by that whole generation. Kylie lives for the attention she gets on Instagram, as do so many girls in her age group and it’s not a good thing. A poster noted yesterday that in the background of one of the pictures Kylie posted on Instagram she had professional lighting set up in her bathroom at her house. That is how far her obsession with social media and taking selfies extends now, and at this point she is most famous for her Instagram account. Without it, she would be irrelevant because no one really pays attention to her. Kourtney, Kim and Khloe are the famous ones, Kendall models now, and Rob and Kylie are the forgotten ones. It’s just such a sad existence to build your entire life around the Internet and taking pictures of yourself for comments telling you that you’re gorgeous and perfect. I think once this girl turns 18 all hell is really going to break loose because she has a thirst for attention that an ocean couldn’t quench.
I have a bigger question about cultural appropriation as some are so passionate about this on here. Why is cultural appropriation in this essence so bad? In general isn’t it a better step in race relations if at least now parts of African American culture are so beautiful that they want to emulate it even if it is for publicity purposes. If only African Americans, because they lived the background, are allowed to style a certain way isn’t that a bit of separate but equal which didn’t work too well ever. I could see if you feel it is more of a costume and making fun, but I don’t see how in this essence it seems that way. Also, I understand the problem with the Kardashian’s and how they have treated at least two African American women, Black Chyna and Amber Rose, especially on social media, but these are just two people and mainly social media feuds which only the feuds ever get published. When it comes to the Kardashian’s/Jenners I have a problem because I see the issues, and I certainly am ashamed that they take anyone’s style at all. If this was just some white random starlet with corn rows would it be okay or would it still be inappropriate?
If the white random starlet were getting disproportionate praise for the look as opposed to an African-American with the same style, yes. If the random starlet doesn’t have an appreciation for where the style came from, yes. At least that’s what I think. Although the cornrows alone would perhaps not be as big an issue, because part of what’s informing this particular situation is a pattern of cultural appropriation in Kylie’s family.
It is probably not a better step in race relations for the aspect of African American culture being desirable if it ONLY attracts positive attention when a light-skinned person wears it and if it attracts derision in a darker-skinned person. If the style is praised equally across the board, it might be different.
As far as the Black Chyna/Amber Rose thing, I’m actually less likely to see that as a racially motivated feud. They seem to be more between individuals who happen to be of different races. I think if BC and AR were white, it would still be a feud. I could be wrong though.
Isn’t amber rose white?
Because even when it’s labeled respectful and appreciative there’s always some essence of trying on a costume. Of trying to take the ‘exotic’ from another culture to make the whiteness more acorns and special. Furthermore credit is frequently not given and depth is ignored, past, history and truth don’t exist so long as the person can brush it off and enjoy their token traits that they have the option of abandoning whenever they see fit.
I guess I am just kind of torn. I see people’s point, but I just think if we see each others styles as more desirable we might all be more accepted. America is such a white male powered country, and the media and society in general see only certain styles as beautiful. I feel that people of all races and ethnic backgrounds should incorporate what makes them feel beautiful and then maybe all will be thought of as beautiful. For the longest time a lot of African American women did not feel comfortable wearing their hair naturally, and to this day a lot still don’t. Not all are because of the abuse some receive wearing it naturally, but some are because they feel it makes them less beautiful and that is upsetting to me that perhaps society has led them that way.
When my daughter was very young her BFF was an African American girl, and she wanted her hair so bad. I had to explain to her a ton of times it wasn’t possible, this was pre Rachel Dozel (sp). I also made her watch Good Hair, and she realized how much work it took to upkeep the hair and she decided sitting at a hair dresser for hours wouldn’t be fun. She also was with her friend who was worried about her hair in the rain after she had just gotten it done, and she didn’t want to worry about that either. Still to this day if she sees an African American woman wearing an afro she loves it because it is the most beautiful hair to her. I have to be honest, I grew up 70’s -80’s and didn’t think too much about African American women hairstyles, but my daughters innocent love of the hair made me see the beauty. I wish all women could see the beauty in it, and it makes me sad our society has made people think otherwise.
This is where I struggle. I’m white, I consider myself pretty progressive with regards the race relations (while also acknowledging that I have some baggage I’m not completely over due to Appalachian semi-rural upbringing, despite (and sometimes maybe exacerbated by) having a black stepmother and mixed brother) and I truly am working towards recognizing and correcting that in myself. But, this is one area where it just makes me more sad and confused. I LOVE fashion and style. Love it. My fine limp hair would look terrible in braids, so I would never try it, but otherwise it makes me sad that I couldn’t without being accused of cultural appropriation. I love the look on black women. I love close cropped short hair and big natural afros and braids twisted into glorious updos. I think it looks amazing on black women. I do see the point about how that appreciation of black features by other members of society does often praise white women who adopt it and criticize black women who continue it, but I really really don’t.
I just bought the most gorgeous skirt by a Native American designer (plugging her – B. Yellowtail). I bought it because I loved it, but also felt a little better because she has called attention to cultural appropriation when another designer copied her work (clearly also ripping off a design, which is another issue of exploiting artists.) And now, as I’m struggling with this issue, with my skirt at home ready to be worn on Friday, I’m growing increasingly worried that someone is going to look at me, clearly with minimal to no Native American heritage, and think I am stealing someone’s else’s culture. Who wins in this situation? Should this lovely designer only sell to other Native Americans (or limit to her own tribe)? Do I need to carry a sign explaining how I purchased it from an “authentic” designer?
It’s not that I don’t think we should be talking about these issues. I just really don’t like it when we automatically assume bad intentions on the part of an individual when the problem is societal. Even when the individual is a Kardashian.
If anyone side-eyes you about the skirt or says something, just explain what you told us. Your friends will know who you truly are, and any outsider who questions will soon learn as you tell them.
On the part of Kylie people assume (quite correctly) that she only superficially likes the fashionable parts of black culture based on her and her family’s past actions. If Kylie had been reppin the streets from Day 1 people might be weirded out, but you couldn’t really accuse her of posing because that would be what she’s grown up with it. Instead it’s a very obvious phase designed to go with the Kardashian-Jenner marketplan, and that’s what makes people upset with them.
You should wear a sign around your neck that says: “Credit: Native American People, Designer: B. Yellowtail, An Authentic Native American. She gave me permission to wear it”
Otherwise people will accuse you of appropriation, not giving the culture credit and being a privileged white girl who doesn’t get it. A sign will save you from having to explain it over and over again.
You’re welcome.
@Lynnie, true. I suppose I need to take Kylie’s actions in context of her being Kylie. Her history is different than a random white girl posting a pic in braids. I am concerned about the random white girl, though, and hope she doesn’t get made an example of. (Concern for RWG does not preclude concern for black girls and women everywhere, hope that goes without saying (though I guess I”m saying it, too.)
Ugh. Life is hard. Need pictures of kittens, now
@Palapa ZING!!!
I see what you did there!
I get what you’re saying S. Personally in the case of RWG who I do see wearing box braids/dreads/cornrows, etc I just roll my eyes and move on. Too many of them for me to go and make examples of them all. For me, the line crosses when RWG or society will go and be all “Look how trendy I am/she is,” if she/they act as she pioneered the technique first, or they are very clearly going through a phase and being inconsiderate. I think it’s like that for many other people as well.
Life is hard, but I do sincerely think it will get better once we get past our discomfort with the hard topics. I wish I had a kitten, they’re so cute!!!
Justin needs to shut up. He was caught on camera making racist jokes and using the “n” word remember? So of course he’s going to defend Kylie. I don’t think Kylie is racist. I do think she is very very misguided and uneducated and perhaps even ignorant.
I’m really happy for the folks taking their racial and cultural understanding cues from Justin Bieber, Kylie Jenner and Miley Cyrus. Seriously, good for you folks.
Also F Andy Cohen, what an immature twip.
So, it’s like when people with glasses for necessity get offended when people with 20/20 wear glasses to look cool?
Except you also add the years and years of opression of a certain group?
Sorry, I’m kind of slow.
Also, is it wrong if a white girl with curly kinky hair uses this protective styles? I’ve seen videos where they also get called out.
I asked that question yesterday, because I do have a lot of thick curly hair myself. The answer I got was do what you want, but be prepared for comments.
Tbh I’m not sure how well white hair despite its texture would benefit from this protective style.
When you see corn rows on black women it addresses multiple points white women tend to not experienced. Black hair tends to be more fragile, especially the ends. If you notice typically the ends of any hair style are protected in an effort to maintain length.
Furthermore while black women differ totally in how often we wash our hair many of us don’t wash it every single day. As a result we can wear these styles for longer periods of time again reinforcing their purpose as protective. The healthy sebum we get from our scalps helps to nourish and moisturizer our hair without complaints since it tends to be on the dryer side whereas most white women complain about greasiness and with the texture of their hair (I know some white women can have the same curls as black as women, but it tends to be a smaller amount, white women typically have large corkscrew curls) it can cause a certain amount of ‘slip’ which can make it difficult to maintain cornrows on white hair.
But hey, dry shampoo can help with many of these issues.
When I was in my 20s, I bought a box of hair relaxer , because I thought my hair was probably similar to an African-American’s hair. I even got the one made for kids just to be careful. Well, it totally fried my hair (and this was shortly before my wedding), so I had to go to a stylist to fix it. She was laughing at me and said, “Did you not see a picture of a black person on the box?” That was when I found out that no, our hair really isn’t the same (although that box certainly did straighten my hair out)! So I don’t know if cornrows would really work for me. The main reason I wanted to try them would be just to kind of give this mess some organization. My hair is also pretty dry, so I condition more often than I shampoo. I probably am not going to try cornrows ever, but I have been tempted, I certainly don’t want to do it if by doing it I am offensive to a large segment of the population.
You know what’s funny?
You’re like the fifth white person I’ve met that has done a box relaxer, lol, and yes results for all five were pretty bad in their own words. I’m so sorry it was before your wedding! Knowing how strong relaxers can be I can only imagine the damage that was done but I’m sure you still looked beautiful.
That is funny! Thank you. At least I know I’m not the only idiot who tried it. It was a learning experience!
Here’s a thought. I just looked it up. Malala Yousafzai and Kylie are less than a month apart in age. One of them had nothing, and one of them had everything. One of them risked her life to have an education while one of them is a dropout. One of them is the youngest ever Nobel Prize laureate;the other one famously has had lots of plastic surgery at a young age.
Now, it’s not exactly a fair comparison because most adults haven’t accomplished what Malala has (I certainly am not a Nobel laureate and I’m more than twice her age), so maybe it’s unfair to expect Kylie to live up to that standard. But imagine how much influence Kylie, with all her advantages and her fan base, could have if she chose to use that platform to address real issues!
“Just a kid”? Sure. But food for thought.
Exactly.
I forgot who said it but Kylie Jenner is an example of a child who has been given so much she can do nothing. Usually I support entrepreneurs but with the Kardashians I don’t see it. They lease their name to other people’s work and effort, great when they’ve got the money and name-power to do it but nothing’s eternal.
One day the company that makes Kylie’s hair extensions won’t renew her contract, what then? That big ol’ mansion will require some big ol’ mortgage payments. Same with all the sisters, their success is so fragile. Even Kendall has a career that has a lifespan of 5 more years at best. All these women have achieved nothing lasting that they’be created themselves and can lay claim to.
Eternal— That’s why they keep having babies. Use them to promote new things. Kylie will have a kid soon I’m sure. You are right. They lend their names. Their own clothing lines have already failed horribly.
Kylie said her mom signed the papers and paid for the house and Kylie is “supposed to pay her back”. I’m guessing her mom paid cash for the house, it’s in Kris’s name but Kylie will be living in it and paying her mom whenever she feels like it lol.
Come on that’s really not a good comparison. First of all Kylie wouldn’t have nearly the followers she has if she said anything intelligent like that, mainly because people wouldn’t believe it was her. Some of the more intelligent kids follow her just because she is so shallow; it’s like eating the candy instead of the vegetables. Same reason I comment here instead of just hanging out at NYT comment section, still you do occasionally get the more social stimulating topics. Can’t expect kids though to do that. I also think the influence she has is over stupid stuff, and if she did do something intelligent it probably just wouldn’t connect.
Yup and let me add to another thing about this “just a kid” BS
1. Michael Brown was shot and he was quickly labeled as an adult
2. Tamir Rice was “mistaken” for a 20 yr old. He was 12
3. Trayvon Martin was 18 and labeled an adult
4. Dylann Roof is 19 and shot up a church and was labeled as “a shy kid”
5. Kylie Jenner is just a kid
6. Amandla is an angry black girl
Someone want to tell me racism doesn’t exist…please look at how people fall all over themselves to paint white people as the victims, sweet, innocent, in need of protection. Black people never get that consideration. Think on that
Racism most certainly exists, and I would be one the first ones to say white privilege is present in our society. This young white comedienne did this you tube video where she went around and did all these things she felt her African American friend would get arrested for. She actually went up to a cop and tried to sell her prescription drugs and nothing happened. Look it up it is really hysterical and sad at the same time.
Saying that people see what they want to. First the just a kid comment on here mostly is she is just a stupid kid, and not really meant as a compliment. You could take it as she is so inconsequential that what she does really shouldn’t socially mean anything, because she is so shallow and stupid. I know I mean it that way. Amandla seems like an intelligent and smart young girl, and I would expect a lot more from her than a Kylie Jenner, and that is a compliment. The thing about intelligence is it does make the public expect more of you, but that is a good thing.
Now I agree with most of the other comments on the racially charged crimes above except Dylan Roof. He was said to be a shy kid by one of his friends from school when he was younger. All these lone gunmen are shy mentally disturbed kids in their youth, because honestly I think that or the devil made them do it is the only thing that people can grasp on to try to understand such heinous acts. Although he hasn’t gotten the mentally disturbed too much yet which is surprising.
I get that some people mean to say she’s stupid but not everyone will. “Just a kid” is a magical pass that lets you get away with things. A pass never really afforded to a POC
I guess my point with including Dylann is he WAS labeled a kid by the media. Something that was not afforded to people of the above shootings. People bent over backwards trying to pretend that this wasn’t a racist hate crime (the war on Christianity was my favorite). Its just another thing about how racism ISN’T overt like in the 60s…its present in magazines, in the movies, in how we see news stories framed, etc.
“The real issue here isn’t that white women receive praise for something black women are derided for, but what can be done to stop the prejudice against black women”
I can’t disagree with this. I think it should be the ultimate goal. However, I don’t think we are anything close to that point yet.
Shut up Bieber! Andy Cohen is just a dimwit
Also, where is DTX? She was making the most sense yesterday
I really hope this is sarcasm. Because if so, you my friend are very funny.
@Lynnie. Hi sweetie. Please do share why you don’t think I made any sense because I cannot recall anything you contributed.
Dtx’s comment was brought to you by the letter “O” and the word “Snap!”
I did not contribute much that’s true, but that’s because Eternal Side-Eye, Kitten, Amy Tennant, and many others wrote eloquent posts and contributed information much better than I could to people like you.
While your story about your friend was sad, when others continually showed why your striped shirt analogy was false, laid out their viewpoints, and explained REPEATEDLY why this whole situation was offensive/why people were being offended you went and basically did the written equivalent of “La, la, la I can’t hear you, but here’s another dumb analogy and can’t we all just get along?” That and the fact that your replies and metaphors got more elaborate in your efforts to ignore and believe whatever you wanted to ultimately made me come to the conclusion that your comments (on this topic at least) were nonsensical. =)
“People like you” what does that mean exactly? My “metaphors didn’t grow more elaborate” because I only used one and I didn’t have to get elaborate at all, I think I was pretty clear and simple. You’re thinking of the person I was discussing with who was comparing being put-down for a hairstyle choice to the extermination of 6 million Jews. And it wasn’t just my Indian SIL that was assaulted for the crime of wearing cornrows, I took some hits too…by black girls wearing Indian hair weaves which was pretty ironic, don’t you think? But I am aware that most people don’t behave that way. I was merely questioning why black women call out non-blacks for innocently wearing a hairstyle commonly associated with their culture when they themselves contribute to a hair extension market that is cruelly sourced from the suffering of women of other cultures. Or perhaps, other people’s suffering doesn’t matter, too? If that is non-sensical to you, then maybe I should draw you a picture.
@Palapa how old are you? Better yet do you yourself have anything to contribute besides dated references?
Perfectly said Lynnie.
DTX and her sister-in-law being attacked was not acceptable and yet DTX tried to conflate a single isolated incident into a broader issue. Not once did I ever tell you how to feel about being attacked and yet you have repeatedly tried to tell others how to feel about this topic. Everytime someone tried to calmly inform you of their perspective you slammed the conversation down refusing the discussion and instead demanding focus on you and your SIL as victims. Then you made several repeated weak comparisons to further your argument (hey today why don’t you try to find a way to compare rape to pants).
You keep making posts about us sharing and why it shouldn’t be us. vs. them but people like you are why. You don’t want to engage or share and as such there’s no emotional connection. The time for the burning of crosses has passed, now so much of the fight on discrimination is about microaggressions and when someone refuses to believe those exist they become part of the structure that’s defeating us. THAT’S how it becomes us. vs them.
You believe that I am demanding that you focus on me & my SIL as victims, but isn’t that what you are doing too? And please point out to me where it is that I told you how to feel about something. And you did say that you would have “understood if they sat me down to discuss their issues” or something to that effect…as if they had the right to force that upon me. I still don’t think they did, not a “talk” and much less an attack. That is what you don’t understand. You cannot tell other people how to act, behave, what to wear because unless they are directly hurting you or breaking the law, it is not your business. Unless you want people to conversely bring up a rhetoric back at you. Letting people live their own lives and make their own choices is much more conducive to a peaceful society than lecturing others about things that are you own issues and creating “fences” around certain things.
And I am aware that discrimination exists, I have experienced it plenty myself so I am not pretending it is nonexistent in anything I have posted. I am simply asking why the rules shouldn’t be the same for everyone if we want to create an equal society. Simple question. If you can’t answer it, then don’t. If you don’t want to converse about the unethical hair weave market, that’s fine too. But I have engaged you and answered your questions with my honest viewpoint.
@DTX last time with this nonsense.
“People like you” means people who are willingly obtuse for the sake of protecting their argument. Take that however you want.
Again with the whole “Black girls wearing Indian hair in weaves, lol pretty ironic right.” Give it up already. Plenty of people have explained that black/African American women straighten, wear weaves/extensions, etc to fit in with the Eurocentric beauty standards and because their own natural is reviled/not acceptable in their workplaces, schools, armies etc. Some just wear it as protective styling so their own hair can grow. If given the choice and if they were accepted for it many black women would just wear their hair naturally. I know I’m one of them.
With anything that’s mass produced and sold on scale you’re going to have unethical markets. Everything from what you drank to what you’re typing on. Telling people about these markets and their alternatives is great! Trying to conflate it with the discussion that blackness is not a costume and shouldn’t be treated as such isn’t.
“Give it up already” You sure don’t like that when it is directed at you though.
And you’re making excuses for why black women can engage in hairstyles that come from the direct suffering of others because “society made them do it”. No, everything is a choice. You don’t have to buy weaves to wear straight hair. But I got you, you don’t want to live up to the expectations you have of others.
@DTX You seem to think since your relative was assaulted for wearing cornrows then anything anyone has to say is moot.
As for this: “I am simply asking why the rules shouldn’t be the same for everyone if we want to create an equal society. Simple question. If you can’t answer it, then don’t.”
The simple answer is the rules aren’t the same for everyone. They never have been. There is a hierarchy in this country and minorities are at the bottom of it. Until people like you are willing to stop, listen and reflect on what people are saying things will never be equal. People have repeatedly tried to explain the significance of AA hair and the struggles they face day in and day out but you’re still not listening. You just keep saying, “But, but, but…” Yes, there are ton of other things going on but for AA their hair is just one piece of a much larger puzzle.
Also thanks Eternal! I really like all your posts! Do you have a separate blog where you write more stuff like this?
@DTX
But I and others can tell you how what you do, what to wear and how to act when you’re using others cultures to their own offense. That is literally what the civil rights movement was made of. The world doesn’t change with silence. Yes, I would have supported those girls politely trying to speak with you since 1. You still have no clue about the history of corn rows and 2. I think most people are reasonable human beings that can be engaged on an intellectual level and learn. Since even an online discussion fills you with revulsion I’m sure you’d have learned nothing but I fully support adult intelligent conversations.
I explained the, and as Lynnie has said it’s hardly unethical across the board, hair weave market. You can barely listen to what I am saying and it printed in written word for you to check. The weave market exists because of the same colonization that made women’s hair unacceptable for them to function in a professional level in society. You think these things exist in a bubble? THIS is what I mean by microaggression, these structures in the world effect us on a global scale and aren’t contained to one individual or on incident. Since you’re so concerned about things being equal why don’t you reflect on the majority of skin lightening products coming from India and being sold to not only those women but women all over the world?
@DTX
When it comes to black women’s hair there are only two options for straight hair IF they’re not born with straight hair (some are) relaxing their hair or buying weaves/wigs. Markets grow as a result of a demand in the world. Some Indians use other Indians for their resource as a way to gain economic growth because they know many women want to use straight hair. I hope you don’t think ‘all’ hair comes from shaving women in a temple? Thats not feasible. Comparatively some Indians sell Toxic ingredients to the world at large as a result of a legacy of self-hate for dark skin.
@Lynnie
Haha, no. I don’t have a blog. I’d just wear down my keyboard to a nub if I wrote about this topic regularly. This is a topic I’m passionate about and I was lucky to have parents from a young age who tried to expose me to the problems in our world so I could be armed with the tools to confront it. It’s so easy to simplify different things and say ‘this isn’t impkrtant’ or ‘let’s focus on something important’ but these little issues all build up to the major problems we have in society.
Someone said this yesterday about feminism and it resonated with me. That whenever women have an issue and try to talk about the way their companies effect them they’re told. “Well this is a private company and they have a right to run it how they wish, you need to deal with the larger companies and problems” but every single company makes the decision to pay women less than men. It is those companies, one by one, who create the average that leads to use trailing 20-30cents behind men (and that’s if you’re white, if you’re a minority woman you can be trailing as far back as 50-70cents). If we do not fight these companies one by one then the average remains the same. It’s the same with this topic.
If hair isn’t important and names aren’t important and economics aren’t important then in the end what are the building blocks to this discrimination we still face?
It is very presumptuous of you to say that I would have learned nothing and from an event you weren’t even present at and “have no clue” about any topic or that a discussion “revulsed me” when in fact, it did not at all. You just don’t happen to like what I’m saying nor do you want to admit to your double standard, maybe you are the one feeling revulsion. At least, the other poster Eternal straight up admitted that she believes that there are different rules for different people (even though I see that as part of the problem) but I can at least see why she thinks how she does. I just don’t have to agree with it but I can at least respect her opinion without having to resort to making broad and demeaning assumptions that “she is revulsed” by me or that she’d “never learn anything anyway”. And yes, I happen to be well aware of the skin lightening issue prevalent in India, I had my wedding there and had salons try to sell me lightening creams along with my bridal supplies, which I refused because I happen to love my tan skin and feel badly for people who don’t love their own. But their creams are a problem within their own country, created by their own demand. They are not exporting those creams to the US because they wouldn’t pass our FDA standards. But they ARE exporting their hair to us because of the high demand over here and just because it is not all sourced from shaving girls heads in temples, doesn’t mean that it is not obtained at the expense of unfair prices or demeaning methods such as whole families digging in the garbage for hair strands from combs and brushes for mere pennies. I don’t think that my view of holding people to equal standards is microagressive either. But you have consistently made excuses or downplayed black women having a “pass” to not get questioned on the weave market at all, while questioning others on their hair choices. It’s fine. I can grasp your thought pattern and respect your right to feel any way you choose, however I still don’t think you have the right to publicly shame a complete stranger or lecture them and expect them to take it, for wearing something that you may not like.
Well first of all I think there’s some confusion, because renee28 is who said the world was unfair. I’m Eternal Side-Eye. I’m not sure you fully realize how double standards work either. Just like I never supported you and your’s being attacked I also never claimed that the hair industry was acceptable. I said it existed because of a disparity in the world you refuse to admit exists. Guess what? There’s an black market for organs that exists in the world too. It’s not right but we are able to discuss why it exists and why failures in the legal system have prompted it’s creation. How many sentences do you wish me to devote to saying something is wrong? Or do you want it to be wrong full stop, no deeper exploration, no further examination?
Second…you think Indian Skin Lightening Creams aren’t being sold IN the U.S., IN U.S. stores, ON U.S. Websites? …you’re out of your league on this topic. All of the above is happening. You think they’re exporting the hair but keeping the creams tucked away in their own country? Honey… It’s sad that you can’t understand that merely explaining something doesn’t mean condoning it, that’s just a basic exercise in explaining. Things can be wrong and we can also explore why things exist. The blind man doesn’t hold a special triumph over the deaf. It’s a series of people suffering and yet you can’t explore even past a single sentence ANY of the topics I’ve mentioned. Your entire focus is on Indians, out of curiosity what is your own race or nationality? You want to lambast and punish black women because of your own past issues with them, you don’t care about why they’ve been made to feel like some of them HAVE to wear wigs or weaves and in fact haven’t responded to ANY topic discussing those women being punished for NOT supporting the Indian hair trade and the punishment they’ve been dealt as a result of not compromising. Shouldn’t you have been the main one supporting and bringing up those women? Yet you haven’t responded to or created any topics addressing it, interesting.
This is a serious topic on a serious issue. I’ve consistently tried to be nothing but polite but the reality is you’re not engaging on anything more than a shallow level. On some level there can’t be more than disputes because there’s no compromise or give and take. You have your point and you refuse to see anything beyond it. That isn’t my judgement, that’s the reality. You’ve tried to argue your point with clothes and I’ve engaged. You’ve tried to argue your point with weaves and I’ve engaged. You’ve tried again and again to say that no one should ever speak to you with their cultural issues or concerns, that they shouldn’t wear weaves, that there’s no issue with skin lightening because it’s not sold in this country (go to any store that sells these weaves you’re so passionate about and tell me what you see in their glass counters), and that in the end the focus shouldn’t be on this discussion. There is no meeting in the middle.
Let me preface by saying that I am a WOC living in a third world african country, I am well acquainted with racism as well as the prejudices left behind by the old colonial “masters” .
We are all privileged compared to someone else, the whites are privileged compared to the blacks, pretty much anyone living in the west is privileged compared to the people around me.
The concept of cultural appropriation, however seems to be uniquely American and yet America is hardly the only country to have experienced slavery. Culture is not rigid and cannot be boxed, it is and will always be subjected to external influences.
Coming back to the hair debate, it seems to me to boil down to this: black women face discrimination when wearing corn rows, white woman receives praise, therefore white women should not be allowed to wear corn rows. The real issue here isn’t that white women receive praise for something black women are derided for, but what can be done to stop the prejudice against black women. Telling Kylie not to wear her hair in corn rows does nothing to improve the situation for black women.
What could however help to eradicate this notion that black hair in its natural state isnt professional, or attractive enough is for the prominent black women to stop relaxing their hair and put down their weaves. Why arent more people calling Oprah, Michele Obama, stars like Kerry Washington etc. to show the ignorants that black natural hair is every bit as beautiful as caucasian hair?
WTF is Kylie wearing? She is a Bratz doll come to life like her sisters.
So … a Canadian white boy, lingering has been pop star with street creed from Usher, has stepped into the frey to explain to “angry” presumably WOC to “calm down” about a privileged white girl playing black and her followers signing on # white girls do it better. And then an older, rich white guy (he’s gay, so he knows about “being different”) gets on TV and calls a young biracial black girl a mean name for daring to say something about our dear, harmless white beauty (who’s sexy and exotic for her purchased black features and black sex partner). While all these good, white arbitrators of common sense, intelligence, peace and decency have never publicly stood up for any Black human issue, they were quick to jump up and tell blacks to shut up, calm down and minimize and ignore an issue many W/POC, obviously felt strongly about.
M ‘ okay.
Sounds ’bout right.
Only in Amerikkka, folks.
WOC – women of color
POC – people of color
Not just the States. Bieber was belched up from my country, which also likes to pretend it’s something better than what it is.
Of course Kylie didn’t respond. She tuned out after “Black Features are beautiful…”
Kylie turned back to her mirror….”Like, I know right?!”
Ok… I can’t believe I am going to type this but I am… I kinda like Kylie Jenner’s style. I mean she’s 17 and dresses way too old for her age but I find myself looking at her instagram to see what she’s wearing and how she styled everything. I find myself wanting to adopt some of her bolder choices. I can’t stand her relationship with Tyga or her family but I really think she has fun taste!
Yeah, I kind of like Kylie’s style too and at this point, when she’s nearly 18, I feel like her style/being revealing is the least of her ‘problems.’
Kylie is taking a page out of Kim’s book. Just tweet or post something offensive and get attention. Works every time !!!!
Hang on … why are corn rows suddenly racist? They were a trend 2 years ago. I remember Cara Delevinge wearing them to the MET gala! Amanda is a very articulate young girl and i applaud her for speaking on racial issues as she has a young following, but i don’t get the issue with Kylie wearing corn rows. Do white women get to claim straight hair as theirs and their only?
A group of friends were discussing how black artists take so much offense at white people ‘stealing’ their music or whatever. Like white people cannot sing soul because it is a traditionally black genre? Same goes for rap. It gets me pretty angry. How are we supposed to get anywhere if we claim ownership over a certain genre? It has to be universal. If you are good at rapping, or can sing the blues – then bloody do it. Who cares what color your skin is?
my, my, we’re quite the cultural appropriation apologist today, aren’t we?
Do white women get to claim straight hair as theirs and their only?
uh, guess what, white people aren’t the only race where a lot of women have naturally straight hair. And if anything, many black women even today are FORCED to adopt a straight-hair look that is more acceptable and familiar by white standards, or else suffer negative educational and professional consequences (like Afros being seen as a ‘political statement’ at work and therefore unacceptable, or black children with cornrows being sent home because their hair is also ‘unacceptable’)
I don’t recall a single person speaking out against Amy Winehouse (RIP) or Joss Stone singing soul music, or Eminem from being a rapper while white – they were lauded for their talent and Eminem specifically addressed the question of his race in context of rap. And none of them attempted to adopt stereotypical images of black people as costumes/trends.
Exactly! So much yes to your last paragraph.
AND THIS: “uh, guess what, white people aren’t the only race where a lot of women have naturally straight hair.”
I am gonna stab myself in the eyes if I have to read someone making the SAME. F*CKING. COMMENT. about straight hair being equivalent to braids.
It doesn’t work as an analogy for EIGHT MILLION REASONS–and It’s been explained over and over and over again.
G is just raising a series of logical questions. When non-blacks raise these questions don’t you ever stop to think that it could be coming from a clean place in their heart? From someone who doesn’t focus on RACE, RACE, RACE? Try to explain cultural appropriation to a child and they wouldn’t understand because they are innocent and don’t see stark definitions of races, this has a lot to do with the fact that the number of biracial children is growing exponentially and their generation IS the true melting pot where everyone is just a human being.
I saw a focus group broadcast of a group of children being shown the now infamous “Biracial Cheerios” commercial in which a small, adorable biracial child is being told by her white mother that Cheerios are good for the heart and she then runs into the living room where her black father is napping on the couch and dumps Cheerios all over his chest. Very cute, right? Well this video was shown to this group of children who were then asked why they believed so many people had a negative reaction to it and called for it to be pulled off the air. They truly had no clue. When they were told that it was because of the mixing of races, some of the children started CRYING. I have hope for the next generation, because this one is still too divisive and no one takes others seriously when they ask questions like “Why is this hairstyle bad?” They just accuse them of being facetious, obtuse or an “apologist” and that is a damn shame. Yes, people shared the background of hairstyles and that is a great thing to learn, but we are making a conscious decision to allow it to CONTINUE to divide us by saying, “This is mine and you can’t use it or you’re a bad person no matter if you’re not doing it to mock me.”
@DTX – I am not black, but frankly, why are you so focused on people’s rights to take something that originated in, and is strongly associated with, a minority culture that is not their own?
Is having the thing that important, and POC speaking out are the big meanie party poopers for saying “this is ours, back off and leave our culture alone” to white people seeking to appropriate whatever is the ‘ethnic’ fad of the day? (it’s cornrows here, it could be Native headdresses the next day, bindis the day after that, the list goes on)
People have been explaining all over this thread why white girls using cornrows to seem ‘edgy’ is not cool but you conveniently keep ignoring that and saying we’re not answering the question to your satisfaction (i.e. with a ‘yes, wear what you want! Whatever you want!’ endorsement).
And why, again, is it so important for white people to be able to use these trappings of black or other minority cultures as a “trend” without the actual people of said minority cultures questioning it? You want to use our culture and use it without guilt or being questioned (or indeed, any engagement with that culture or its people beyond a “clean heart”), talk about having your cake and eating it too.
And you don’t like how we’re all so focused on RACE, RACE, RACE, right? Well, here’s the newsflash: people of colour do not have the luxury of ignoring race in a white-majority country. Even if they’re not being gunned down in the street by police, or not being singled out for extra so-called “random” searching at the airport because of the colour of their skin or the sound of their last name.
Children as young as four and five know when they’re treated differently because of the way they look or speak, so this claim of ignoring race to preserve childish innocence is pure hokum.
I remember Jennifer Lopez wore corn rows in a music video. I honestly can’t remember anyone having an issue with it…but I could be wrong….it was a long time ago…around 1999.
Yeah and at the time Jenny was trying to appeal to a hip hop audience. She also used the n word. Funny though how as soon as they became less of her target audience her hair never found itself in cornrows again.
Iroquois women would have traditionally worn their hair in a single braid down the back. As an Iroquois woman I would never in a million years think that a white person with a braid was appropriating my culture. Lots of whites come to the reservation and buy beaded hair clips made by local woman. We are happy to have the business, not worrying that they are trying to make their hair look like ours. Some native Mexicans wore/wear their hair in two braids, sometimes with ribbons woven in. I styled my daughter’s hair like that, sometimes with a ribbon to match her dress, when she was little. I never even considered it a “Mexican” hairstyle. Lots of little girls wear braids. Why are some braids ok for white people and others not? To me braids are a class issue, worn by woman of all colors who do manual labor for practical reasons, sometimes dressed up for special occasions. So really this is more class appropriation than anything else.
Women of almost all ethnicities/races have historically worn some type of braid, but a single plait down the back (which was also traditional in my culture) is worlds away from a style originated by black people to deal with a problem specifically faced by black people’s hair (easy breakage).
As a child, I myself wore my hair in that long single braid but was mocked as ‘ethnic’ and ‘lame’ for it. Fast forward to about 2010 and suddenly that same kind of braid was on all the runways as a ‘trend’ and the (white) girls who chose to wear it and be photographed were declared the coolest and most ‘carefree’/’boho’ of them all. I can imagine black people who see looks and hairstyles originated by them and widely associated with them, being ripped off for cool points as a ‘trend’ (the automatic implication being, you’re not good enough to last) feel even more annoyed than I do.
That’s what I was waiting for. The single braids don’t belong to natives argument. I think that it shows the ridiculousness of my argument. People all over the world wear their hair in many different ways. Ancient Egyptians wore cornrows, while African, they are not “black”. So if Kylie was Arab/Mediterranean it would be ok? Race is a social construct used by the ruling class to divide the rest of us so we don’t demand our fair share of the wealth we create through our labor because we are busy arguing about who can wear a braid. It is nothing but a distraction.
@aang. +1000!
I agree with everything you said. This is just a distraction to mask a bigger issue that is causing the slow decay of this country. People don’t realize that there are too many mice and not enough cheese to sustain us long-term because they feed into the negative race relations being implanted or magnified into society that is being used to misdirect us.
@aang that argument still doesn’t work because Egyptians originally were Kemetic people, Kemetic people were Sub-Saharan Africans who migrated towards that region. In other words “black” people. So the fact that hairstyle can be contributed back to “black” culture. People are choosing not to get it, as it was expressed on several occasions, between yesterday’s post and today, that it wasn’t just the cornrows- it was the cornrows + the clothes + the hideous caption. On top of which Amandla was more commenting that it’s poor taste try and adopt black culturally images when it’s fun but not be for the cause when it’s important. To not use your power, money, and influence for change concerning a culture you “care so much about, that you are constantly hijacking.” That was the point of her original post. Lastly, why aren’t we discussing Laverne Cox’s disturbing behavior of co-signing what Andy Cohen is saying? This is why I have issues with Laverne Cox– def not cool, or brave, just awful.
Amunet ma
In regards to Laverne Cox she at least posted on Twitter today that at the time she didn’t really understand the context of the discussion and that she fully agreed with Amandla. She also reposted her chart which I appreciate but yes ironically it often seems to be darker-skinned blacks in the media who bite their tongue and go with the flow in regards to fighting against misperceptions. It’s frustrating.
@ Eternal Side-Eye
Thank you for the correction. I did not know any of the most recent social media stuff from Laverne Cox.
Like I said it is hair let it go
I am a bit confused on the braids appropriating a culture. I am Hispanic and have had my hair in braids in this way too since my hair was long enough to be in one. Someone educate me please. Also as far as Bieber saying he is not racist because he grew up in Canada, let me tell you racism is alive and well here too.
I also grew up with braids, but let me put it this way, the braids that we wore as children have as much relation to the specific style of braids being spoken of by Amandla, as Shirley Temple’s curls do to a full afro.
But they do have a relation to the braids I spoke of. Why is it ok for a white woman to wear braids that mimic the traditional hairstyles of native women but not ok for a white woman to wear corn rows? Because we were almost exterminated and are not represented in the entertainment industry in large numbers so don’t have a soapbox? If whites can wear any braids they can wear all braids. No double standard.
Why can’t people get this?
How would you describe cornrows? I know that if someone asked me what they were I would not automatically say “braids” as an answer, I would say “cornrows are a black hairstyle”.
That tells you everything you need to know. It’s a protective hairstyle used by black people. It’s not the same as a French freakin braid.
But it is so much more than just a hair ‘do, it’s steeped in tribal customs and is traditionally a signifier of social status within a community– different braid patterns and styles indicate marital status, wealth, power etc. Now it may not mean the same thing in modern American society, but that is the cultural *root* so to speak, of braids like cornrows.
I feel like there’s this huge disconnect where people can’t understand the sacredness of something if it’s not theirs. Do you know what I’m saying? If it’s theirs then “don’t you dare touch it!” but if something doesn’t belong to them or their culture, then it’s a free-for-all. They get it if it’s their flag being burned, or their religion being mocked, or their heritage being derided, but if it’s not theirs, they don’t give a f*ck. They’re entitled to take whatever it is and screw the cultural traditions that have been tied to said object for thousands of years. They don’t need to acknowledge that because they want what they want.
This is such a huge blind spot for some people.
Traditions, heritage, culture, history, these things MATTER and they’re so integral to forming our own unique identities in an increasingly diverse and diluted American culture that is largely too young to have ancient traditions (except for NAs). This is so….human to me. It’s so human to me that people would want to hold tight to that.
Even if you can’t understand what our black commenters have explained about being stigmatized and denigrated for black hairstyles while white people are lauded for doing the same thing, how can you not understand the importance of a culture retaining traditions that are singularly theirs?
EDIT: @V1-I wasn’t directing my comment to you, I was just adding on to what Teacakes said . Just a general sentiment towards some of the astounding ignorance I’m seeing.
@aang – that single braid down the back is not a hairstyle exclusive to Native American culture. I’m Indian and that was the style traditionally worn by women in many areas of the country (my Korean, Russian and Pakistani friends have also mentioned the three-strand plait as being traditional ‘grandma hairstyles’ in their own communities/countries, and may well be common in other countries too – I doubt 17th century Korean women were culturally appropriating anything from Native Americans, looking at some classical depictions/descriptions of women). Hell, Chinese men wore single plaits too, at one point in time.
That kind of hairstyle is not even close to being as culturally specific in origin and evolution as cornrows to black people, so please don’t draw false analogies here.
I don’t think a lot of white people realize the privilege that they have. I know I didnt. Being raised in a white area around white people, I didn’t realize the difference in treatment that POC get. I wasn’t really around POC until I started dating my husband, who is mixed. I date Hispanic, English, bikers, you name it, I dated it. Except for black men, never really been around that culture. It was a real wakeup call for me. Quite a difference in treatment between us going out together and me going out by myself.. People stare quite frequently. My point being, sometimes people don’t realize the privilege they have, they think it’s that way for everyone. I mostly thought racism existed, but not her on a major scale, I thought we had come a long way.
I don’t kylie or the kk’s realize how offensive they’re being by borrowing from black culture. I can see how it would be offensive, however, sometimes you don’t know what is ok to do. Since a photo shoot put Kylie in cornrows, she prob thought it was ok.
I’m not saying that cultural misappropriation isn’t an issue or that heritage should be lost… We just need to stop with the “us” and “them” mentality… We all should just bring what we have to the table… Respect those who fought for our rights before and those who still do… Kylie Jenner or whatever hairstyle she chooses is not important… Racial equality is…
I don’t understand white people telling black people they need to focus on the “real” or “bigger” issues of racism. Because black people wouldn’t know what those are? Instead of looking at black hair in isolation, maybe think about connecting the dots and see how the little things like denigrating black hair and style and body shape and language etc. all add together to reflect racism in society towards black people. The message is the same across the board – black people are not refined, sophisticated, smart and attractive like white people, so they have to be filtered through whiteness to be acceptable. And then white people get the credit for it. How is that not insulting? So it’s about the hair but not just about the hair, and the Kardashians/Jenners/whatever deserve to be called out for whitewashing black people for money. As a palate cleanser, Amandla is awesome!
“The message is the same across the board – black people are not refined, sophisticated, smart and attractive like white people, so they have to be filtered through whiteness to be acceptable.”
I really liked the way you phrased that.
Yeah Beiber is not one to be lecturing on racism. And nobody said that any non-black person who wears their hair in cornrows is automatically a racist, or that it’s always wrong for a non-white person to wear braids/cornwrows in their life. It’s like he didn’t even read what was said. I don’t think what Amandla is doing can be called an attack or ‘anger’ either. She was calling out non-black people who deliberately use elements of black culture to look ‘rebellious’/turn a profit but have nothing to say about any of the issues that face black people.
There have definitely been elements of Miley’s career in the past- like twerking- where she used elements of black hip hop culture to draw attention to her career for profit without acknowledging its roots. But if this is how someone is styling their hair in their personal life while they’re trying to grow it out, and they’re not using it for profit and street cred attention, then it might not be seen in the same way.
Ugh Bieber, the same kid who has used the n word multiple times. I feel like people are being purposefully obtuse with Kylie/Amandla situation. It’s not just about hair, it’s about a family who are always fetishizing, racist, and hypocritical about black culture. They want to be black but not black at the same time. They attack Amber Rose for her past, when Kim has a sex tape, etc. They make fun of girls for being ghetto yet use that same language. Kylie isn’t even a Kardashian, she’s a jenner and is getting so much plastic surgery in order to look more curvy. Again, they are praised for their body types, magazines talk about how it is “the new hot look,” when women of color for ages have had that body type naturally. Amandla is YOUNGER than Kylie and for people to say Kylie is just a kid is ridiculous. Amandla is an intelligent, smart young lady who it appears educated herself more on racism in America, due to all the backlash of her being Rue in THG (which was stupid, if you read teh book, you knew which district and how they looked). Kylie is just stupid, that’s not an opinion, it’s a sad fact, she couldn’t even respond properly, and has never done ANYTHING to help any sort of cause. Sorry lots of feels lol, will step away now 🙂
Unpopular Opinion: Seems to me plenty of white male musicians do things that are blatantly cultural appropriation and don’t get flack for it, yet women are always held up to intense scrutiny, no matter what their race.
… sorry, but my inner feminist rages at this.
@ Katijia what are you implying in this particular situation b/c males have most def been called out. I know black people have discussed for years how Elvis Presley ripped off black culture, Vanilla Ice, Justin Beiber, etc. Let’s not bring “feminism” in this, when I don’t think that dog has a chance in this race. A matter of fact, I’m not seeing any shred of feminist issue being explored in this case. This is purely a racial issue.
That is a very true observation that has been lost in all this bickering and rule-setting. Guys do get called out but it seems that women tend to go at each other harder in general.
Okay, this will be long winded and may be taken as me being ignorant. .I truly do not intend to be, so here it goes. I am a white Canadian girl, so our race issues are different here. I understand and fully accept that we’ve, to be frank, treated our native community pretty poorly. My friends neighbor is a native, and he tried to explain to us the troubles the native people faced and are still facing. I never had a problem listening to him, I didn’t always know what to say. . . Ill never understand. I am ‘white trash’ so I have experienced/seen police brutality, I have seen how the system caters to certain people and not others but ill never obviously know the full extent of those things. The reason I started to get mad and feel attacked because it came to be that every time I was there I had to listen to him rip apart MY people, stereotype, talk about how white girls deserve to be raped with a knife and then they can’t complain because ‘it happened in the past’ how were all the same, dirty, thieving ignorant white people. I feel whenever racial issues come up and people try to tell us why they are angry, its always you white people, white people white people. Of course I’m going to feel attacked after that.
I’m going to use my place of work as a point of reference; I apologize again if I am being ignorant. At my place of employment, we have a lot of poc. . . There are a lot of hardworking ones, but there are also several that literally do nothing then pull the race card anytime someone says something about it. There are a few that wear hats (talking about casual ones), have pink/blue other such colors in their hair. . . But us white folks get repermanded for it. A girl had to re dye her hair, I got talked to by a supervisor for wearing my pikachu hat in the basement where no guests could see us. I’ve had east Indian girls clearly make fun of me in their native tongue.
I am all for equality, I have never treated anyone differently because of their skin. I truly do not want anyone to be oppressed, put down for the colour of their skin, or their natural features. However, constantly being told that I have everything, you have nothing, my race is scum and the root of all evil while I’m experiencing forms of discrimination based on skin and ancestry I didn’t ask for gets really disheartening. White people can experience racism and discrimination to and I wish people saw that rather than point the finger and say I deserve it.
Speaking as a black Canadian, we have Stop and Frisk. Sometimes we’re just too exhausted to bother with someone else’s confusion. Uncomfortable to whites? I guess, but you’ still get paid more and some days you’re just going have to deal with the fact that there’s too much history, history still happening to be bothered.
Yes, I know as a white girl I will never face the same treatment from the police as someone who is black. I have a slightly better understanding being considered low class, but its apples and oranges it will never be truly the same.
But do you not understand that was the point I was trying to make? That its okay for me to deal with certain things, because I’m just an ignorant white person. And at my place of work at least, everyone gets paid exactly the same wage for the various jobs we employ people for. I truly hope one day we can all just be ourselves without the us vs them mentality. I would like to see everyone sitting together, able to enjoy their cultures without segregating ourselves into groups. I do not want to be any better than you are, so why do I have to be put down to boost someone up?
Amandla is lovely and smart and everything but lecturing a Kardashian on anything of substance will never produce anything. If anything, Kylie’s proud she made headlines without even trying.
So I have read all the comments and understand cultural appropriation as someone white utilizing an aspect of AA culture for their own gain without paying homage to the history of AA culture. But my question is as a white female with very fine thin hair that tangled horribly I opted to style my hair in dreads as it’s the only style that doesn’t require heavy duty daily styling. It has nothing to do with attention or thinking it’s cool, it was just either that or a bun daily. Despite that I have no poor intentions is this cultural appropriation?
Tbh, I think very few white women have “poor intentions” when they emulate black culture. I think you have a good explanation if you ever get called out for it. But you would acknowledge where you got the idea, would you not?
Yah, I teach at a 99.5% AA high school so the kids and I have discussions constantly about different aspects of race relations and discrimination and why I’m a white chick with dreads lol (it’s an all male school with very small class sizes, so we are able to build much better relationships with our kids than traditional schools) but I honestly think that my hair makes the students more comfortable with me because I will have real discussions with them and I don’t have the outward appearance of the stuffy old white lady. Of course I’m also heavily tattooed so I break that mold in more ways than one
Amandla’s a really outspoken kid. I appreciate that. She’s probably frustrated. She must have gotten awful comments for her braids, the disgusting comments about her in the hunger games (where no one defended her or spoke up for her), and Kylie’s probably getting hundreds of compliments for her braids. I feel her. She stands by what she says and isn’t apologetic nor is she bending over backwards to please people. I like that. Her response was thoughtful. I used to not be a Zendaya fan, but yeah both these young women have won me over by how thoughtful they are. They present their opinions carefully and intelligently. I can’t manage to do that on a regular basis at all. I do feel bad for Kylie though. I wish she had been encouraged to do more than what she does.
Slightly off topic. I’m wondering how people see yoga though? Isn’t it kind of the same? I don’t doubt there are people who are absolutely phenomenal practitioners, but for the most part it’s not that much different is it?
I can’t speak with depth but there’s a lot of discussion of how Asian teachers and practicioners have been pushed out of the public Yoga teachings/community. Furthermore how sacred teachings have been reduced to “Now let’s blast those abs class!”
So yeah sadly every culture has the gripes with how they’ve been excluded from aspects of their culture that in turn have been monetized.
If we want cornrows to be acceptable for POC to wear in a white racist society then cornrows HAVE to be adopted by white people first. Otherwise cornrows remain just POC territory and in a white racist society that leaves cornrows on the outside of white racist society acceptance. Bit by bit, adoption of the culture of POC by white society as far back as the Blues has contributed to greater freedoms and rights for POC (I’m not diminishing the actual hard fought and gained battle for equality and self determination by POC).
Our cultures engage with each other, swap ideas and make new connections and synthesis. It’s how white society has changed, is changing and will change. Stupid, ignorant, racist white people start to figure out that POC are actually people and not sub humans or animals by being infiltrated or infected by items of POC culture- from liking the music or the clothing or whatever.
IMPORTANT ideas like privilege, appropriation, equality and sensitivity piggyback on cultural items like cornrows or Blues or Rap – these ideas are discussed and become part of social discourse when white people adopt POC culture. White people are not informed by the cultural items like a musical style or a hair style by themselves, they’re educated by the interaction between those items of culture and the discussions they open up.
I’m not saying it’s right or good that black culture is only acceptable when whites adopt it- that’s just how it is, though. Wanting POC culture to be left in a vacuum and “hands off” to other skin colours only ensures that POC culture remains isolated and unacceptable to the white culture.
I’d argue that adoption by whites has frequently been shown to not actually help members of minority groups with greater respect and understanding which is why appropriation became such an important topic.
People wearing Native headdresses, adorning themselves in turquoise, and buying tee pees for their back yard did not help the Native people receive a greater amount of understanding. All it did was monetize a culture and lead to such a pattern of repeated disrespect that these items simply had to be banned from ignorant use.
I guess Kylie’s instagram photos had to be funny? It’s so sad instead, I don’t even have words anymore.