Pretty much everyone believes Tom Brady’s deflated balls are made of lies

wenn21320482

I still want to talk about Tom Brady and his Deflated Balls of Lies. With all of the lies piling up, you would think that balls would be super-inflated. Not so much. On Tuesday, Roger Goodell upheld Brady’s four-game suspension. Goodell’s reasoning seemed solid – while there wasn’t firm evidence that Brady colluded with Patriots’ equipment personnel, there seemed to be an abundance of evidence of a cover-up after the fact. The NFL report cited the fact that Brady destroyed his phone close to the time when he first gave testimony about Deflategate. I didn’t think there was a question about that, but apparently “the phone” has become central to this drama. This is how Brady explained Phone-gate in his Facebook post on Wednesday:

I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline.

Most importantly, I have never written, texted, emailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air pressure before this issue was raised at the AFC Championship game in January. To suggest that I destroyed a phone to avoid giving the NFL information it requested is completely wrong.

To try and reconcile the record and fully cooperate with the investigation after I was disciplined in May, we turned over detailed pages of cell phone records and all of the emails that Mr. Wells requested. We even contacted the phone company to see if there was any possible way we could retrieve any/all of the actual text messages from my old phone. In short, we exhausted every possibility to give the NFL everything we could and offered to go thru the identity for every text and phone call during the relevant time. Regardless, the NFL knows that Mr. Wells already had ALL relevant communications with Patriots personnel that either Mr. Wells saw or that I was questioned about in my appeal hearing. There is no “smoking gun” and this controversy is manufactured to distract from the fact they have zero evidence of wrongdoing.

[From Brady’s Facebook]

A few points about all of this. One, Brady claimed that he always destroys his old phones every few months. Except that the pre-Deflategate phone was never destroyed. In fact, it seems like the only phone he took pains to destroy was the phone he used to text the equipment people when the sh-t hit the fan. There’s a record of the uptick in communication between Brady and the equipment people, just not a record of what they were saying/texting to each other after January 6th. Also, Brady’s big plan for retrieving his texts was to contact the carrier, get his phone records and go through them one by one? That’s so reasonable, right? And finally, everyone just thinks it’s insane that Brady’s argument is “no one told me I couldn’t destroy my phone on the same day that I knew I was going to be questioned about my communications!”

The consensus among sports reporters – even in Brady’s hometown newspapers – is that Brady is made of lies and that his four-game suspension is more about the cover-up than the actual deflated balls.

Last thing: Donald Trump thinks Tom Brady should sue the NFL for $500 million. Trump is apparently a big Brady fan, which seems like the final nail in the coffin of Brady’s credibility.

But Brady is still going ahead with the federal lawsuit against the NFL – go here to read. It’s basically his only move because he can’t admit, at this point, that yeah, his balls are deflated AND made of lies.

Photos courtesy of Getty, WENN.

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120 Responses to “Pretty much everyone believes Tom Brady’s deflated balls are made of lies”

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  1. Tristan says:

    Could an American football fan kindly explain why this is such an issue? As a European, I have zero understanding of the game, but it seems to me that playing with a deflated or overinflated ball would imact both teams equally, unless the guilty team has spent a great deal of time practicing with suboptimal balls. It doesn’t strike me as something that ought to make any difference, unlike using performance enhancers like GH or steroids, for example.

    On a separate note, if I was in TB position & innocent of the accusations being levelled at me, I too would fight tooth & claw to vindicate & salvage my reputation. Especially, if I had spent my entire life working hard at becoming one of the most highly regarded professionals in my sport of choice

    • lisa2 says:

      It is against the rules.
      and some people believe the Patriots have a history of doing things on the undercover

      • Nick says:

        At a really high level – the nfl has requirements that each football is between a certain weight (ie psi level). Prior to the game, a ref will check to ensure that each football provided by the teams meet the requirements. The nfl says that after the nfl did their inspection, Brady had a Patriots ball boy deflate the footballs under the NFL requirements. The deflated may be easier to handle as you can better squeeze etc.

      • boredblond says:

        The Pats have been caught and fined before. This story was broken by a reporter (bob kravitz) who covers the Colts, but what most people don’t realize is he didn’t get his tips from them, but from people inside other teams who knew this was happening but couldn’t take a ball out of play to prove it. No one is saying Brady isn’t a great player, but there’s a lot of shady surrounding the team, and his reaction.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @boredblond, the Patriots had not been caught or fined before for tampering with footballs. Additionally, every single team in the NFL has been caught and fined for some infraction, including ball tampering. That does not excuse the Patriots or any other team for breaking the rules but this endless refrain of “they’ve been caught before” is really irrelevant.

      • bluhare says:

        Lilacflowers, I don’t think it’s irrelevant at all if there’s a pattern of cheating. That shows a pattern of cheating. And the fact that other teams have been caught doing things doesn’t mean another shouldn’t be punished if they’re caught red handed.

      • V4Real says:

        I was going to stay out of this but I just couldn’t mind my own business. Saying that they’ve been caught cheating before is relevant. It shows their lack of credibility. If a man was caught cheating on his wife with another man then the second time he’s caught cheating with a woman does that mean the first time he cheated is irrelevant because he cheated with a man? No, cheating is cheating no matter how many different ways you cheat.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        And just keep right on missing my point, which some of you are doing deliberately. People are running around screaming: “they’ve done it before!” as if they are the only team that ever has and as if nobody else ever did and that by pointing out the inaccuracies and irrelevancies of that, a person is defending cheating. Prior offenses are only legally relevant for assessing punishment for the same offense, so no, filming Jets signals years ago does not legally factor in here. By the way, Brady has never been cited for a prior offense of any sort and no, the argument that he benefited from the prior offenses of others does not work in the legal world of assessing punishment under a contract in the legal world. Sorry. Prior discipline to others for the same offense counts in court because the punishment must be consistent. Prior discipline for ball tampering has been written reprimands to teams and fines up to $50,000, no player was ever suspended – and that Minnesota Viking QB probably did know that the footballs he was holding were toasty warm on a cold day but the NFL contract provides no punishment for that. If there is cheating than punishment must be consistent with what has gone before and follow progressive discipline requirements – that’s the law. Sorry if you don’t like that.

      • Audrey says:

        Brady has never ever been caught cheating before. Never even accused.

        The main players in the video taping from the wrong location thing were totally cleared in this psi mess. The investigators were given all phones except for those belonging to unions (the patriots kicker also refused to give his phone but was not punished). Including coach Belichick, the main video taping person (which was fine until a 2006 memo changed legal taping locations)

      • bluhare says:

        I’m not missing anyone’s point deliberately if you’re referring to me Lilacflowers. People can nuance this any way they want, but for me it’s about cheating. No more, no less, and the fact that others do it doesn’t make it any less about cheating. Whether others do it is irrelevant here, and I hope they’re watching and held accountable if they do it too.

      • V4Real says:

        Perhaps it’s the other way around and you’re missing the point. @boredblond never said Brady himself was caught cheating before, she said The Pats were caught. Yet you’re saying it’s irrelevant. I don’t think she’s saying they were caught tampering with balls before. She just said they have been caught before then she went on to talk about the second time they’ve been caught involving the tampering of the balls. She’s speaking on the character of the team and the team as a whole not from a legal standpoint. It’s funny how you guys are missing that.

        It’s still very relevant because they’ve been caught before and now they have been caught again. You continue to use the argument of every team has cheated. Ok, so if another team that has cheated in the past is caught cheating again people can say they have been caught before.

      • Audrey says:

        V4real, brady has never been accused of cheating

        These are separate incidents completely. Brady had no involvement in video taping at all. And the people who were involved in video taping were totally cleared in the psi investigation.

        I get why people want to link them but totally different people are involved in incidents which are nearly 10 years apart

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Whether others cheated on different teams, same offense, is relevant to judges in assessing whether punishment is just or arbitrary. Everyone should get the exact same punishment. If not, then the one meting out the punishment is cheating too. That somebody else on the same team or company, since this really is the corporate world, cheated in a different way years ago is irrelevant to judges because different person, different offense of cheating. If same person cheats in different ways, than the past offense of that person matters for factoring progressive discipline

      • V4Real says:

        @Audrey ok, Brady was accused of cheating . Is that better at your play on words. Brady has been accused of cheating, maybe not caught. He was accused of knowing about and being a part of deflate gate. To most people that is called cheating . Regardless if you were caught at the moment you committed the act or caught days or months after the act, you still got caught, meaning you didn’t get away with it.
        You’re still missing the point of what @boredblond was saying. She’s talking about the team as a whole. Brady is a part of that team. So it doesn’t matter if he wasn’t a part of videogate, he’s apart of the team and that team has been known to cheat before.

        @Lilac you’re also missing the point. No one is talking about the law or judges on this particular thread. We’re talking about a team that has cheated in the past and now has been accused of cheating again. Yes other teams have cheated before and if they do it again shame on them too. You seem to be hung up on law. Well law found OJ Simpson not guilty but come on now. What about morals and the integrity of the game

      • Audrey says:

        My point is that the PSI accusations against Brady are not a team accusation.

        If it happened, it was an effort made by 2-3 people. Not something involving any other part of the team.

        The NFL and Wells investigation both said that nobody else is expected to have known or participated

      • Pondering thoughts says:

        Cheating is cheating. And it shouldn’t be done. And surely you need some kind of instrument to deflate the balls? And the ball guy had that kind of instrument on him then? So how did that go unnoticed by the NFL inspectors even if that thing is small?

        To be quite honest:

        why would it be so difficult to take up the ball after a touchdown of either side and throw it to somebody with a measuring instrument? There are quite a lot of people standing on the sidelines apart from coaches and other players and and and …

        Perhaps a solution would be an official NFL ball guard … standing and patrolling next to the ball …

        I don’t get why destroying your phone would destroy all your communication texts and calls. Cause there is both the sender and the receiver of a text or call. So all the investigators would have to do would be to check the mobiles of the ones Brady called / texted. Also there seem to be a lot of illegally / legally saved copies of all sorts of calls wiht telephone providers and with the respective secret service agencies. So destroying the phone wouldn’t help much, would it?

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @v4real, The integrity of the game argument was lost when Goodell unethically decided he could rule on whether he himself acted inappropriately. Unequal punishment is unethical. Again, I’ve never said cheaters shouldn’t be punished, nor have I inferred it but your repeated attacks on morals is quite amusing

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @ponderingthoughts, yes, the NFL got all the information it claimed it wanted from other sources and it had logs of every communication. Goodall wanted the phone itself

      • V4Real says:

        @Audrey you still don’t get it. When someone of a particular team or involved with that team cheats it reflects on the entire team. Brady and many others were not involved in videogate but it stilled reflected on the entire team. Just like with bountygate. Not every person that was part of that franchise was in on it but it reflected on the team as a whole.

        @Lilac. My repeated attacks on moral is amusing. Well color me happy because your entire defense of cheaters is hilarious. And no the integrity of the game as far as The Pats are concerned was lost when those balls were deliberately deflated. If that didn’t happen then we wouldn’t be here posting about it today now would we.

      • DIANE says:

        What’s really destroying Brady’s reputation isn’t so much the deflation issue as his vehement denials and whining and defiance and destroying his phone, etc….the cover up. If he’d just manned up right from the start and said yeah, I did it, sorry, he’d have gotten a slap on the wrist and case closed. But Mr. Golden Boy got right up on his pedestal with his entitled self and accused us all of being against him because he cheated and got caught and didn’t think he should have to suffer the consequences. Well, the NFLPA has already filed suit and they tried to file it in Minnesota because there’s a judge there who must be starstruck by players because he let that child beater Adrian Peterson off the hook. But too bad for the Brady Bunch, it’s gonna be heard in NY and I hope the judge tells him the same thing I’d like to say….18-1, baby. Suck on that.

    • Chibichchai says:

      Each side has their own set of balls checked by NFL officials before the start of the game. When it is each team’s turn to run offense, they use their own ball. Why? I never exactly questioned why but most likely so each team knows their same ball was not tampered with when they go to play.

      What the Patriots are accused of is deflating their balls after the NFL officials checked the game balls. This gives the quarterback a better grip on the ball. What makes thisnworse is that the game in question was the championship game that determines who, in one division, goes to the Super Bowl. So basically the patriots cheated their way into the super bowl and the NFL basically let them. They are facing fines but they were still allowed to play and eventually win the big game.

      Now Tom Brady is accused about knowing about the deflated balls so he is being fined as well as the patriots via a four game suspension. He said no and appealed. The commissioner said basically there is evidence that there is a cover up do the suspension is being upheld. That’s the issue here.

      I can see why he does not want this on his playing record. He’s a potential hall of famer like it or not so to have this in his career will really tarnish a lot of his work.

    • Lilacflowers says:

      Each team is responsible for the balls it uses in a game. The ball is supposed to be in a certain condition so neither team gets an advantage but, until just last week, the league had no policy on even checking the balls during the game. Other teams have been caught tampering with game balls and the highest punishment assessed was a $50,000 fine against the team – no player suspension. The league decided to abandon its past discipline policies and hit an individual player with a 4 game suspension.

      • bluhare says:

        I am usually right with you, Lilacflowers, but not on this one. From what I can read — which is statements from other quarterbacks past and present — Brady had to know what was happening with the balls even if he personally didn’t do it or authorize it, as they were in/deflated to his standards. And the guy who probably did goes by the Deflator or something somewhere?

        I’m not a football fan, don’t pay attention to it at all for the most part, but this one just seems egregious and frankly Brady looks like an egotistical jerk. Destroy your phone on the day you’re talking about it when you claim you’re innocent? Really?

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Knowing about something is not an infraction punishable with suspension (or even a reprimand) under the terms of the NFL collective bargaining agreement. The standards for progressive discipline are established in that contract and in our courts. I practice labor law (I represent employERS) and that is how I’m looking at this and after looking through the paperwork on this, I would advise people against working for the NFL in any capacity.

      • Chibichchai says:

        I stand corrected. The max penalty was $50,000 just to the team? No wonder Brady is mad.

      • Layday says:

        @Lilacflowers But correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t the major point of contention that the NFLPA agreed to ultimately let Goodell arbitrate such decisions in their CBA. If they negotiated it, and both sides agreed to it, then shouldn’t that be what’s enforced? As I mentioned yesterday, I don’t like the NFL. However I take issue with the NFLPA giving Goodell the discretion to dole out these punishments as he sees fit as judge and jury then because later on get mad because you don’t like what he does with the authority you gave him. I think the NFLPA association got a raw deal, but it’s one they negotiated. I think in the future they should change the terms of their CBA but I kind of feel on this they’re talking out the side of their neck. Btw I think I see the issue differently from you but I do value your opinion, and I think you bring tremendous insight into this issue.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @Layday, thank you. I followed up on your point yesterday on the other thread after I read the Union’s court filing. The CBA is a bit more nuanced than we thought and there is court precedence on this issue. The CBA mandates that Goodell, and only Goodell, can mete out discipline. However, in this case, he delegated that responsibility to Troy Vincent, who issued the suspension. The union grieved that improper delegation immediately. On this issue of arbitration, the CBA provides that, yes, Goodell can serve as the arbitrator but only in cases where his own actions are not the subject of the grievance. Courts have cited Goodell for violating this provision multiple times. In fact, courts have overturned Goodell’s decisions on that very ground twice this year. So, in this case, the union grieves Goodell’s delegation of authority, Goodell should have, per the CBA, referred that to an impartial arbitrator because it was his act of delegation under review, but he ruled that, no, he would act as the arbitrator on that provision and then ruled that his delegation of authority was proper. That’s a major portion of the union’s case right now. That and notice issues, which Goodell has also lost on several times in the past 12 months, and the new standard he used instead of “clear and convincing.”

      • Audrey says:

        A major issue is that brady was told that Ted Wells was an independent investigator. However:

        – Brady’s team asked for all files from the investigation to prepare his appeal. Wells said no and cited attorney client privilege with the NFL
        – brady was not allowed access to those files but the nfl had them and used them during the appeal
        – Wells’ partners at his law firm questioned witnesses for the NFL during the appeal
        – NFL general counsel Pash was allowed to give notes on and edit the wells report before it was released
        – brady requested that Pash be present at the appeal so he could be questioned about his involvement and contributions. Goodell refused to make him available for questioning

        Brady is, under the cba, entitled to a fair and unbiased investigation. He does not seem to have gotten that.

        The discipline also defies any past precedent

      • bluhare says:

        Well Brady certainly made sure anything that would have personally connected him to the Deflator was destroyed, so nothing could connect him.

        Being right legally isn’t quite the same as being right morally. And I guess I’m looking at it from that angle and you are looking it as a lawyer.

      • Audrey says:

        Bluhare- Brady’s phone records show that he never talked to or tested the guy accused of deflating the balls

        Any texts to the equipment guy were on his phone, which was team issued and thus given to the investigators.had texts to and from Brady from the season with nothing incriminating

      • Layday says:

        @Lilacflowers I still believe that the NFL has a decent shot of winning this case. My dad is a lawyer so I’m familiar with the fact that people can use al kind of nuances to try and win a case. The NFLPA can and should bring up what you mentioned but both sides have precedent for winning given the court venue. Knowing all that I still think the NFLPA should have just settled. Besides their proclaimed impartiality, judges aren’t fair. They make decisions and use whatever logic they want when rendering decisions (for example some of the logic by some of the judges in recent Supreme Court decisions). Why take the chance of ending up with a judge that doesn’t like New England (or even worst a management friendly judge) because there is room to rule whatever way you want. It will be interesting to see the outcome though.

      • Layday says:

        @ Lilacflowers In addition I don’t think the NFL has much to lose. Are we going to somehow lose even more confidence in an organization that has shown going back to the concussion issues and CTE that it is shady and engages in questionable behavior. The person that loses the most here is Tom Brady. Even if he gets out of this through legal channels it will forever tarnish his reputation and people will say he got out of it because he had a good lawyer whether or not he was innocent (especially given the cell phone destruction stuff regardless of the circumstances because let’s be honest to most people looks very shady). If the suspension is upheld he doubly loses because that to many people will be affirmation of guilt. I don’t think he should of dragged this out, he should have settled because he has now made it into a media spectacle that will follow him forever. People will hold a perceived coverup against you longer than an actual crime because if you admit to it people say ok they were punished now let’s move on. He has put himself in a place now, where he’s screwed in the court of public opinion either way and that will hit him in the pocket long after football.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @Layday, oh, I agree there is a strong probability the NFL will win this, for the simple reason that courts defer to arbitrators and the scope of appeal is so very narrow and the burden of proof on the party bringing the appeal very high. Brady did try to settle. I think the union has to fight this because of the new standard Goodell created. That is so egregious and onerous for all employees; they have to fight it, even if they go down in flames. As for public opinion, as you see here, that’s already gone. People are basically clueless as to what this appeal is yet they support Goodell because “cheater” even though the NFL admits there is no proof of cheating, and that’s not because a phone was destroyed, and the appeal is not on the subject of cheating at all. I doubt very much that any one screaming “cheater” would want to be subjected to a workplace run according to Goodell’s rules

      • Layday says:

        @Lilacflowers of course not but as someone who worked in an office where I couldn’t collectively bargain at all I get annoyed when people bargain their rights away. Had the CBA specified that Goodell could not be the arbitrator for these issues at all due to a conflict of interest then this wouldn’t be an issue to litigate. Nevertheless a judge in Minnesota just chastised the NFLPA for trying to move the venue to Minnesota so ultimately I think the problem is if the NFLPA loses it sets an even worst precedent. It’s kind of like while HUD was so nervous about disparate impact cases going before the current Supreme Court, because while it’s great that they won (the consequences of losing would have been devastating for racial inequality in housing). Anyway I read an analogy in regards to Brady that he’s going back to the card table that he knows the dealer is playing with a marked deck and he expects to win this time. Not saying he couldn’t but why when you know the odds aren’t in your favor. Um he could, but as the odds become more stacked against him it decreases his chances. Don’t get me wrong, I do not not like Tom Brady and the Patriots at all (I think they’ve handled this whole thing in a very suspect manner) or Goodell so I don’t see any victims here in regards to how this gets dealt with. In addition, I have seen cases where Goodell has not treated other NFL teams fairly either. Why did the Patriots, Brady, and the NFLPA think they would be treated any differently this time around? Unless the owners collectively and the players collectively work to have Goodell cede some of his authority then I think they are going to have to deal because guess when you have actual rights to bargain, you should use them so this doesn’t happen in the future.

    • belle de jour says:

      Because playing American football this way is not cricket.

    • Teri says:

      Tristian,

      What happens is it gives an advantage to the Pats receivers–the under inflated balls are easier to catch, especially in the cold, thus lowering the Patriots fumble rate. The most interesting thing to watch this season is what happens to the Pats fumble rate now that they will be closely watched on this.

      • Audrey says:

        Their fumble rate is normal. The data you’re thinking of was lost fumbles only.

        When you look at total fumbles, they’re good but not off the charts

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Will also be interesting to see the fumble rate of all teams playing in outdoor stadiums in cold locations.

    • LeAnn Stinks says:

      Tristan,

      Sports experts, and other NFL players, have claimed that once you deflate the balls, while playing in cold weather, it gives one an “advantage” to throwing and catching the ball.

      The Colts balls were all at NFL regulation weight, but the Pats balls were deflated, which was cited in giving them an unfair advantage in winning that play off game, that resulted in the Colts being eliminated from Super Bowl contention.

      • Audrey says:

        Only 4/12 colts balls were measured. 3 of the 4 were below regulation

        At halftime, when the balls were measured and reinflated, the score was 14-7. They ended up winning 45-7. So whatever people think happened, the pats earned the win

        PSI level being an advantage is down to personal preference. Some prefer balls to be overinflated, some prefer them lower. Brady said he doesn’t choose based on PSI really. he goes into a room of prepped balls and chooses the ones which feel best. Yeah they may be the smaller ones but he doesn’t just ask for smaller ones, he chooses based on texture and such too. A lot goes into how a QB likes their balls. There’s a long article about how much tie and effort goes into prepping balls for Eli Manning

        Some past QBs cared about PSI, some said they never asked about PSI and just picked based on texture alone

      • LeAnn Stinks says:

        Audrey,

        You can defend your team until the end of time, other than Pats fans, most NFL fans, don’t buy it. Where there is smoke, there is fire. There always seems to be something with the Pats. It’s either crap luck that they are the one team that keeps getting caught, or they are repeat offenders.

        To end on a positive note, I do LOVE the city of Boston,and have enjoyed myself immensely every time I visit. In addition, some of the best Comics have come out of Boston, including one of my all time favorites, Denis Leary. Who also raises a lot of money for firefighters, which is fabulous!

      • Audrey says:

        High profile, successful teams are targeted more.

        Nobody cares about what the Falcons and Browns were caught doing.

        But the Seahawks have become a powerhouse and now everyone fingers their PEDs and pass interference

        The Bengals have Pacman Jones on their team, who has a very long criminal record. But Everyone points the finger at the Ravens for the criminal issues of their players.

        The Steelers are pointed at for rape allegations against their quarterback

        The Broncos still get crap for cheating the salary cap in the 90’s

        The Colts get crap for suck for luck and crowd noise.

        Less successful teams have drama too but nobody cares. We hear so much about NE cause they’re a high profile team and people want to dismiss their success

        I see what you mean but I also see this happen to every highly successful team while the sketchy drama of other teams is ignored. I saw it happen to other teams back when my pats had won absolutely nothing yet.

    • LA Juice says:

      Tom Brady and his team have been accused (and I believe found guilty by the NFL to some degree) of cheating in the game before- stolen playbooks, I believe. Now he’s been found to have cheated by altering equipment that is- by regulation- required to be inflated to a certain psi level, to make the game fair. deflating the ball makes it easier to grip and grip more tightly- especially important in cold weather or if he takes a hit.

      Brady and the Patriots have won conference and super bowl titles by cheating on multiple occasions.

      Although the NFL has no “hard evidence” that they are willing to make public as to Brady conspiring to deflate the balls before the conference championship. he obstructed justice, refused to cooperate and destroyed evidence. That will likely be the argument the NFL uses to ask the federal court to uphold his suspension.

      even more telling is that Brady and the Pats WERE SO BELOVED by american football fans, that the playbook cheating was virtually dismissed as sour grapes by the other teams. The NFL had to be LOATHE to have to hunt down their golden boy and their most recent Super bowl winning team, on this matter, and I have no doubt the investigation was conducted in the extreme before Goodall (the NFL Commissioner) would risk pissing so many people off. The very fact that they suspended him at all, tells me that there is a lot of cheating and facts the public has no idea about.

      • Audrey says:

        Woah there

        Never stole a play book. They video taped hand signals from their sideline after the commissioner sent a memo saying you could only tape from the stands(to try to ensure footage isn’t reviewed during halftime, teams usually change signals from game to game but not during halftime).

        The memo banning sideline taping was sent in 2006. The patriots won their super bowls in 2001, 2003 and 2004. So no, they did not cheat to win their super bowls.

        It was also never forgotten, still brought up all of the time by opposing teams.

        I’m not going to argue underinflated balls much anymore. It’s dumb and been discredited over and over.

  2. Shambles says:

    BALLS OF LIES.

    That’s all.

  3. Sarah says:

    I will never get tired of reading the phrase “deflated balls”. Love the double entendre. 🙂

  4. C-No says:

    Bostonian here. Admittedly not a football fan — go Sox! — but OMG I don’t care! So. Do. Not. Care. A pro athlete (allegedly) broke the rules and (allegedly) lied about it? Observe my shock! Brady’s a terrific athlete, no doubt, but he’s not a god. He’s not a hero. The heartbreak and outrage is disproportionate to the situation, is all I’m saying.

  5. Lilacflowers says:

    Technically, NFLPA brought the lawsuit, which is an appeal of the “arbitration” decision. NFLPA brings it on Brady’s behalf but the union could have filed the appeal even if Brady didn’t want to do so because the NFL’s actions affect every other player in the league. It is extremely difficult to overturn an arbitration decision and the statutory scope in which to do so is extremely narrow. That said, several of Goodell’s decisions have been overturned by the courts in the past year, for the same reasons the union is citing in the Brady case and, apparently, instead of learning from the previous court orders, Goodell’s conduct has become more egregious. The courts have held that Goodell cannot appoint himself arbitrator in a case where his own actions are the subject of the grievance, which he did again here.

    The Brady case aside, given Goodell’s repeated violations of the collective bargaining agreement, the NFL is a bad employer. Yes, the players make millions but the people working in the league offices do not and if the public profile players’s rights are ignored, the NFL office workers must have it worse.

    • Marigold says:

      I know everyone else is quick to pile on Brady here, which appears to often be a result of their dislike for him or his wife, but I’ve appreciated your comments on these articles. They are very factual and include a lot of really pertinent information that most gossip sites don’t seem to think are worth mentioning. So, in essence, thanks for keeping it real. This is about so much more than how much air was in a football at this point.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Thank you! Yes, this is about labor law and employee rights versus management rights. Last night, I read the NFLPA’s court pleading, which could have been edited better but they were in a rush to file it to get a TRO in place and will probably file an amended version. Yes, of course, it presents things in the light most favorable to the union but the facts laid out pretty clearly that the league has been repeatedly found to violate certain terms of the CBA and did so again repeatedly in this case. Most scary to me is that they came up with a whole new standard of review for discipline. The accepted court upheld standard for suspensions is “clear and convincing” and they went for something far less in this case. I doubt very much that those cheering the league’s decision would want their employer using the same standards.

      • bluhare says:

        No. It’s about whether they cheated.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        The court will be assessing whether Goodell abused his authority under the CBA and relevant statutes, not whether anybody cheated.

      • Marigold says:

        @Bluhare, as Lilacflowers has adequately illustrated, it is not about cheating. If people would stop reading headlines and start reading facts, they would understand that. It’s far more complicated than how it’s being portrayed.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @Marigold, their emotion is about cheating, the legal actions are not.

    • jc126 says:

      You make excellent points, Lilacflowers, some people just want to read into things in ways that support their preconceived notions and biases. As a side note, GO PATS!!

    • Audrey says:

      Question

      The NFLPA suit was sent from Minnesota to New York.

      Their lawsuit heavily cites the Peterson ruling from minnesota.

      But this is federal court right? The New York judge should still care about that ruling right?

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Different district do different things

      • Audrey says:

        Will it depend on whether the New York judge agrees with the minnesota one?

        They also relied on bounty, don’t think that was minnesota though. Just an independent arbitrator (former commissioner)

        Perhaps bounty will be given more weight than Peterson

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Audrey, both sides are judge shopping. The NFL wants NY because it has won there. The NFLPA wants Minnesota because it has won there. The most logical venue for this is Massachusetts but neither side wants it there because they don’t know the judges

      • Audrey says:

        Yeah i know

        Ironically, the NFL drew a Clinton appointed judge while the NFLPA drew a Bush appointed judge.

        I was just wondering how a move to New York will impact the filing, which cites past rulings. I suppose we’ll find out later today when they file in New York and we see if they change things

  6. merski says:

    Entitlement at its worst.

    • Jane says:

      Exactly! Both he and that ridiculous wife of his have a entitlement issues to such an extreme they feel that they can do anything they want, and shame on anyone who contradicts them or questions their motives for any reason. I for one want to see him except responsibility for his actions, but it’s never going to happen.

  7. Kiddo says:

    I don’t know about Tom Brady, but Bill Cosby’s deflated balls are definitely made of lies.*

    * payback for that haar-ible photo you guys kept posting*

  8. Prairiegirl says:

    Anyone else catch how Patriots super fan @chrisevans tweeted support for Robert Kraft right after the owner criticized the league and defended Brady? Gotta love that meatball. Such a true believer.

  9. grabbyhands says:

    This all that translated from his statement-

    WAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH! But I’m popular!!! I have a supermodel wife!!! Everyone is so mean to me!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

    Even as someone who only pays a minimum of attention to football, I was aware of his, and the team’s reputation, so his rebuttal doesn’t hold a lot of water for me. I think he has been allowed to coast off being an NFL golden boy for a very long time. In his defense, I think the only reason Goodell is calling him on this one is because he has done such a disastrous job as commish otherwise and he needs something to make him look like he is making actual decisions. Too bad he chose this instead of you know, punishing murderers and abusers within his ranks.

    On a more petty, personal note, I am enjoying seeing him twist a little considering when the Seahawks met the Patriots in the Super Bowl everyone in Seattle had to listen to the Hawks described as a bunch of thugs who had been lucky to eke out an appearance while the accolades were poured over America’s perfect team of Aryan princes who were obviously just going to steam roll the cheating troublemakers from the West Coast. I may not be much of a football fan, but you have to have some civic pride.

    • Lilacflowers says:

      Vince Wilfork, Aryan Prince. Thanks for that.

    • Audrey says:

      The hawks were lucky to be there! Seriously, watch the final like 10 minutes of the nfc championship game against the packers! It was crazy.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        I like the Seahawks and I think they made it one of the most exciting Super Bowls

      • Audrey says:

        It was exciting and i was happy to have them be the opponent

        But people weren’t just being haters to say that they were lucky to end up in the super bowl. The nfc championship game was just a total collapse by the packers

  10. The Eternal Side-Eye says:

    The amount of confused logic that even goes into the defense of “Well I always destroy my phones anyway”.

    Come on Tommy, you had a few to think of something better than that.

    • Hawkeye says:

      I know! The verbal gymnastics he has to go through to explain his side makes him sound dim in addition to guilty.

    • FLORC says:

      It makes Zero sense to me a team of lawyers would say he can destroy his phone. It’s an object of communication. And much of this whole thing is about Brady’s possible communication with the equipment crew in charge of the balls.
      IF there was truly nothing to hide why destroy it. Like it’s a priority to do so. Why not keep it just in case you need to prove your communication with the equipment crew wasn’t anything shady?
      And that any lawyer worth their salt would advise that assuming there was nothing of sketchy, guilty actions on the phone.

      • Audrey says:

        Maybe because they had the equipment guy’s phone with all texts to and from Brady

        They were given all team issued phones, including the head coach. Any remaining texts on Brady’s phone were personal.

        Brady is in a union and union members do not hand over their personal phones. Favre didn’t and the patriots kicker didn’t either.

        When Goodell was investigated for the Ray Rice situation, he only gave investigators his league issued phone. He did not give access to his personal phone and nobody batted an eye at that

    • doofus says:

      I’m wondering if there wasn’t something ELSE on that phone that he didn’t want out there.

      the story is that he gave them all the relevant data from the phone AND offered to get the records from his provider, so…WHY did he destroy it?…

      theories:
      1) naked pics of him
      2) naked pics of his wife
      3) naked pics of someone BESIDES his wife
      4) “sexts” from his wife
      5) “sexts” from someone BESIDES his wife

      anyone else?…

      • Audrey says:

        Could be anything.

        I don’t have nudes or sexts on my phone but i always wipe them when i upgrade and dispose of my old phone.

        I simply do not want anyone who gets it to have access to contact information for people i know. The main reason though is that i have pictures of my daughter and family. I don’t need strangers to have access to those.

        Nothing incriminating. I’m just very cautious and protective of my family. I think everyone should do this

      • LeAnn Stinks says:

        Funny, I thought the same thing. If he cheats on the field….

  11. Samigirl says:

    I keep remembering that Conan segment where Drew Brees was handed multiple footballs and was correct on what psi(?) they were inflated to on all of them. Basically, BS Brady didnt know.

  12. NewWester says:

    “Deflated balls” that sounds painful

  13. Sammi says:

    As a New Englander I’m not pissed off because Brady can’t play. We have a bunch of great second-tier players, winning won’t be a problem. I’m more pissed off that someone’s under a 4 day suspension for deflated balls wholesome other players get 2 days for BEATING THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN.

    NFL needs to get its priorities straight, this is just embarrassing.

    • Lilacflowers says:

      And as Baltimore learned, Edelman can throw a touchdown pass. Some get 2 games for spousal abuse, some get $250,000 for murdering two people, and some get 4 games for PROBABLY KNOWING that other people did something to a football.

    • V4Real says:

      It’s like I said yesterday. Football is a job or career, just like acting. Chris Brown and Charlie Sheen are known domestic abusers but they didn’t get fired from their singing or acting careers, though what they did was dispictable. Rice job is a football player but unfortunately what he did didn’t impact his job. What Brady did directly impacted his job as a QB. There are cooperate guys who have committed acts of violence against their spouses but yet they are still working because what they did had nothing to do with their work. Fortunately Hernandez (another slap in the Patriots face) is serving time in prison for his acts of violence.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Hernandez’s acts of violence, which was murder, just like Ray Lewis, also didn’t impact his job and the Patriots cut him when the police began questioning him. They had to continue to pay him because, the union, as it is statutorily required to do, grieved the cut and the team was ordered to pay him. Not sure why the Ravens are still paying Lewis.

      • V4Real says:

        If you think about it actually it did impact Hernandez’s job. You can’t go to training camp or practice if you’re in jail for murder. I know he was officially released from the team right after the arrest.

        The NFL uses it’s own discretion when it comes to deciding what type of punishment to give the players and it’s unfortunate that Rice pretty much got a slap on the wrist.

        That being said Brady will be just fine. These claims probably won’t hold water in a court of law. The only thing that’s going to happen to Brady is that his integrity will always be in question. His image is now forever tarnished.

  14. Katie says:

    He needs to just take the suspension like a man. It’s 4 games. what’s the big deal?

    • Lilacflowers says:

      That’s a third of the season and millions of dollars.

      • doofus says:

        you seem to know the details of this, so I’ll ask you, as I’ve seen this possibility bandied about by sports analysts…

        …is there a possibility that appealing in court could wind up backfiring in the sense of WHICH four games he’ll have to sit out? people have said that he can still play while the appeals are in process, so let’s say the appeals process lasts several months, and he winds up playing in the first half of the season (or further)…the appeals decision comes down in mid-late December and it gets upheld, so does he now have to sit out the final games and/or a few (likely) playoff games? couldn’t that potentially be worse for him than the first four games?…

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Yes, it could backfire, depending when the court issues its ruling. If it doesn’t rule until late November, well, the suspension starts at the end of the season and into the playoffs. The union has sought to avoid that by asking for an expedited decision so that all is resolved by the start of the season – the court could decide not to do that. As I said above and on yesterday’s thread, Brady isn’t the actual plaintiff here, the union is. And the union could bring this case even without Brady because Goodell’s actions and the new standards he used affect all players. I’ve also said that it is extremely difficult to overturn an arbitration decision and the scope is excruciatingly narrow. Courts have ruled that arbitrators pretty much can make up their own “facts”. Seriously, there are court rulings saying just that. You don’t win an appeal because the arbitrator ignored major facts or key evidence or just made it up. So, I think the union must believe very strongly in this case – although I think they need to amend and clean up their filing.

      • LeAnn Stinks says:

        Sorry Audrey, I don’t agree. So, we will just have to agree to disagree. Brady’s “punishment” is a joke.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @Doofus, alternatively, if the court has not ruled by the start of the season, Brady could choose to serve the suspension while continuing the case. If he prevailed, the NFL would have to pay him for the lost games with interest

      • doofus says:

        not so sure that’s a better option, though.

        let’s say he decides to sit out the first four, and then they DO rule in his favor. yeah, he’ll get paid, but he’ll also have missed four potentially crucial games. I guess it would be better for him to miss the first four FOR SURE than taking a risk with the appeal and possibly having to be out the last four, or the last two and two playoff games…

    • LeAnn Stinks says:

      Agreed, especially since they are at the BEGINNING of the season, when it really doesn’t matter. If Goodell really wanted to make an example of the team, and Brady, he would have suspended him for the last four games of the season, when it actually counts.

      Goodell has been accused of being close, personal friends with the Pats’ owner Robert Kraft, and pictures of the two socializing together have been posted all over Deadspin for many years. So, I think he is trying to show that he isn’t “partial” by handing down this “punishment.”

      To me, it still screams compromise, and is a complete joke. If this was another team in NFL, I do think that the ramifications would have been far worse.

      • Audrey says:

        Patriots get way harsher penalties than any other team….

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Other teams HAVE been found to have cheated by tampering with footballs and the punishment was a $50,000 fine and the QB was NOT suspended

    • iheartjacksparrow says:

      I’m not a football fan, but if he had just said, “I’m innocent, but I’ll accept the four-game suspension so the team can move forward,” would this “gate” even be an issue now?

  15. Me too says:

    This is ridiculous. I watched that game and let me say, it was a blow out. They would have won the game regardless.

  16. Audrey says:

    They have all of the texts! None mentioned deflating balls. The equipment guy’s phone was team issued and turned over as part of the investigation. It had all of texts with brady

    Brady gave his records and they show he never talked to or texted the guy who supposedly did the deflating.

    Brady notified the investigators that he would not be giving his phone cause they had no right to it. They never warned that this worthy of punishment. No player has ever been suspended for this before. Most is a $50000 fine, not 4 games. Brady is a union and courts have ruled that players have the right to be notified in advance of punishment reasons. This is not in their CBA and he was not informed. He said he would have gone against lawyer advice and given it if he was made aware. And offered to help request texts from the people who received them. The previous phone was only used for a month so perhaps why he overlooked wiping it

    Brady has a good argument that the NFL has pulled another punishment out of nowhere and disregarded the CBA and past precedent.

    Boston papers have also hated Boston sports for a long time. Read pro football talk for better news.

    Great, another place spreading false information

    • Tifygodess says:

      Exactly! Voice of reason. Thank you.
      Everyone is making such a big thing about the stup*d phone. Last I knew No one has to hand over their cell phone EVER to anyone unless there is a court order. But let’s ignore that right ? Brady was asked, he said no but also gave them other methods for fact checking. It amazes me how normal everyday people are screaming that he didn’t give them access to his phone , he must be guilty – what’s the big deal BLAH blah , yet the same people freak out the minute someone even touches their cell phone or the thought someone could looking through THEIR private stuff. But that’s different right? Like I tweeted the other day the mass media only gives half the story just like they did with deflate gate. All the facts didn’t get placed out there either!

  17. Algernon says:

    ” Also, Brady’s big plan for retrieving his texts was to contact the carrier, get his phone records and go through them one by one? That’s so reasonable, right?”

    Yes, that is reasonable, as that is how subpoenas in criminal court cases work. When lawyers subpoena text messages, they don’t get the actual device, they get printed transcripts and call/contact logs from the phone company, which they then go through, line by line, looking for things that support their case.

    I’m not defending Tom Brady because I think he was up to something shady (although I think every team does shady stuff like this), but it’s ridiculous that he’s being held to a higher standard than an actual accused criminal. The problem with Deflategate is that even though clearly *something* happened with the footballs, no one has been able to actually prove what happened, when, and who knew about it. The NFL is going to get spanked in court because it’s going to come down to real evidence, of which there is none. I’m kind of shocked Gooddell pushed it this far, because he has to know once it’s in a real court and not kangaroo NFL court, the lack of hard evidence is not going to do him any favors.

    • Lilacflowers says:

      I would never advise my client to ask for an employee’s phone unless it was employer issued. The subpoenas you describe for criminal court is the same process we follow in civil court. We get the printed transcripts and logs from the service provider (same with emails). And there are time limits for how long service providers hold those records so if the NFL wanted them, it should have filed subpoenas AND litigation holds (which means putting Brady on notice) at the start of the investigation. Sounds like no subpoenas were filed.

      • Algernon says:

        The phone situation is so sketchy. Everyone is acting like it’s perfectly normal to expect a person to just hand over their actual phone, but there is established legal precedence for how phone communications, including texts, are handled in situations like this. I’m not defending Brady, but the NFL has acted completely over the top with this Deflategate stuff.

      • j says:

        i get him not turning over the phone yet destroying it makes it obvious he had shady stuff on there he didnt want anyone to see

        i get what you’re saying lilacflowers, but not sure about elsewhere, here in ny it’s a gray area if the phone is not employer issued but being used by the employee in the course of business

    • Nic919 says:

      Roger Goodell needs to be turfed. How can he give Brady 4 games for possibly giving an order to inflate balls which ultimately did not affect the game versus Ray Rice getting 2 games for punching his girlfriend unconscious? With video proof.
      I am no fan of the Patriots and think they should be penalized, but why just Brady? And none of this follows any reasonable process because Goodell reviewing his own decision makes no sense. There is no procedural fairness happening here.

      • Algernon says:

        I agree. Whatever you may think of Brady and the Patriots, the NFL is way overreaching, and to me this looks like flat out persecution. I hope a real court stuffs a deflated football down the NFL’s proverbial throat.

  18. FLORC says:

    Bluhare
    You are just nailing it.

  19. Kelly says:

    Tough. He’s a fricking quarterback.

    He needs to man up and take his punishment and quit whining. Maybe Gisele can wipe his little tears away.

    One good thing is it will give someone else a great opportunity on the field.

  20. inthekitchen says:

    All I know is that after “spygate” the Pats went undefeated (until the superbowl…still can’t think about that!) and were beating teams by like 40 points. So my hope is that they come out this season like raging monsters and kick the snot out of everyone on the schedule and then win the superbowl again. The Pats are the best in the league at believing everyone hates them and are out to get them and this will only add fuel to the fire.

  21. holly says:

    Last photo remind anyone of Herman Munster?

  22. Anon says:

    Seriously the whole NFL needs to be re examined including Goddell. This would be a huge deal if Brady were the only one. Others have admitted to same just not caught.I am no fan of Brady but I also feel he is a scapegoat. Goddell must go and soon.I also think with this federal lawsuit Brady will walk and I am not sure the NFL was prepared for it to get to this point. This is going to open up many things not Brady or Pats.. Be prepared. lol. It’s about to get wild very wild.nfl will be forced to divulge a lot more then they want to or well you know about certain oaths taken and the next scapegoat.

  23. TotallyBiased says:

    Can I just throw out there how sick I am of the phrase
    “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”
    Whatever the facts regarding DeflateGate (and thank you, Lilacflowers and others, for your so-cogent discourse on the subject–it has been an education) AND given that I really dislike the Pats, that phrase goes against THE most basic tenet of the US legal system and even our foundation of fair play.

    Not to mention how scientifically inaccurate it is.

    Yes, I’m especially sensitive these days due to a completely unrelated thread of gossip, but it pops up over and over again, as justification for all sorts of innuendo, accusation, and even character defamation.
    /donewithrant

  24. Dinah says:

    Call me stunned: Balls before ego.

  25. Anon says:

    Very interesting read going down today

    No idea if I am allowed to do this so if not moderator please delete

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/30/mortensen-to-address-initial-deflategate-report-on-weei/

  26. holly hobby says:

    What a waste of taxpayer money! Suck it up and serve your suspension Tommy.