Fidel Castro died over the weekend. He was 90 years old when he passed, and it’s still a little bit crazy to think that after everything that went down between Castro and the American government, that at the end of the day, he died of what amounts to old age. Castro’s passing came right in the middle of Prince Harry’s two-week Caribbean tour, and it’s good to remember that some nations and some people actually had good relationships with Castro and Cuba. St. Vincent was one of those small nations that had a decent relationship with Cuba and Castro, and St. Vincent’s governor general wanted to mark Castro’s passing with a moment of silence during a reception for Prince Harry. This was sprung on Harry and I guess he felt like he could refuse or walk away. So now it’s a thing. People are yelling about it.
Prince Harry was left in an awkward position when he was asked to take part in a moment’s silence after the death of Fidel Castro – despite some describing the Cuban leader as a ‘murderous dictator’. The silence was observed when the prince attended a drinks reception on the island of St Vincent, during his Caribbean tour. He had been at the reception as the guest of honour to present Duke of Edinburgh awards to young people.
But the country’s governor general Sir Frederick Ballantyne, who was hosting the event, asked his guests to mark the death of the international figure. A source close to Harry said that the silence was not planned in advance and was called for by the Governor General.
Tory MP Alec Shelbrooke told MailOnline that forcing Prince Harry to join the minute’s silence was ‘very unfair’ and the government should make clear it was unacceptable. ‘Castro was a murderous dictator. He is dead, and good riddance,’ he said. ‘This endless stream of people excusing him, especially Labour MPs like Jeremy Corbyn, is ridiculous. It is very unfair to put pressure on members of the Royal Family to take part in this kind of tribute. Prince Harry shouldn’t be put in this position. I think it would be desirable, through the usual diplomatic channels, to make sure this kind of thing does not happen again where Royals are put in this situation.’
Ralph Gonsalves, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines’ Prime Minister, described Castro as a ‘good friend of the island’. He went on to tell of how the Cuban leader had invested in the country, which has been a trading partner for decades. And Harry was faced with no choice but to listen to the tributes to the controversial political figure and join in the silence in honour of the man who led Cuba for more than half a century. The 32-year-old stared straight ahead expressionless during the silence which lasted around 20 seconds.
So far, neither the Queen nor the Prime Minister Theresa May has officially made any statements about the passing of the Cuban leader, who some regard as a ‘revolutionary’ while others see him as a communist dictator. Kensington Palace declined to comment.
Most of the criticism isn’t being lodged at Harry directly, probably because he didn’t directly say anything about Castro. All Harry did was respect his hosts and stay quiet for twenty seconds. He was put in an awkward position, but surely it would have been even more awkward if he had flat-out refused to participate in the moment of silence, or had followed up the moment of silence with a scream of “Castro was a murderous dictator!” Rock, hard place.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
I actually saw people discussing how his death was sad, blah blah free Healthcare blah blah. I can’t imagine being so I’ll informed.
Yes excellent universal healthcare, high literacy rates, and an excellent education system. Also terrible human rights abuses. It is possible for the two to coexist. We lock up millions of nonviolent citizens, have many children living in poverty, a failing education system, and healthcare that exists to make insurance companies and big pharma wealthy. That doesn’t negate the good things about the US.
Thank you, Aang! Acknowledging the good with the bad isn’t being ill informed, it’s being well-informed and realistic.
There is no such thing as “an excellent education system” in a country that doesn’t allow for freedom of expression and the free exchange of ideas. And what is the point of having high literacy rates in a country that doesn’t allow you to read or write what you want? Knowing how to read in a country like Cuba is like knowing how to play guitar in a country that has banned guitar playing.
Some truly excellent aspects of Cuba under Castro, as Aang says. It would be nice to be hearing a more balanced retrospective from the media at the moment. My father worked there a great deal (in agriculture) & was a great fan of the place & people.
This is another of those “greatest country in the world” discussions: name me a single country which doesn’t have a mixture of good & bad – there isn’t one.
The fact that Cuban Americans have consistently opposed any normalization of relations with Cuba tells me that whatever “good” Castro may have done is heavily outweighed by oppression, murder, poverty, and fear.
Exactly. Castro did many terrible things, but he also did some good things, and its sure as hell not like Batista was any better.
It’s worth remembering the American narrative around Castro was largely shaped by the wealthy Cubans who had benefited enormously from Batista’s own brutal dictatorship and who fled here when they started getting a taste of their own medicine. America took in more than a few war criminals and monsters because all they actually cared about was communism, not human rights.
@Jesie This forum doesn’t seem to have a function to directly reply to someone. Just thank you for mentioning the historical and societal context why we have seen so many Trump supporting white Cubans celebrating in the streets.
As a German it really annoys me how Batista’s elite is so righteous without ever exposing their own role in history and how American society lets them get away with it. For anyone who didn’t know this, Gloria Estefan, as much as I love her music, is actually the daughter of Batista’s bodyguard. Her family fled Cuba on a private jet, not a raft. Context, people, context.
Nat it doesn’t negate all aspects of education in my opinion . Didn’t they recently have some interesting scientific discoveries maybe even cures for something ? I can’t remember but I think they did. China has bad human rights and better results in education than the USA without paying teachers well (well everything is affordable anyways) or having fancy classrooms. They also have forced abortions and More corruption
+1 Jesie and thaliasghost
Megan – if there are two radically opposed points of view, you do yourself no favours at all by completely crediting one and completely discrediting the other. Therein, ignorance lies.
Agree with Jessie. Thanks.
Thank you Aang, Sixer, Jesie et al.
I’m always astonished at how quickly folks are ready to paint with broad strokes, denying the complexity that is human behaviour.
Acknowledging the good things Castro has done along with the bad does not excuse or condone his crimes but it does give perspective and let’s you understand why some might genuinely mourn his passing.
@Sixer – I think people who actually lived under Castro’s regime and have spent decades supporting improverished relatives in Cuba are in a better position to judge if the pros outweighs the cons. As part of my work, I have interviewed Cubans who have sought asylum in the US. My opinion is informed and fact-based.
Universal Health Care =/= excellent healthcare. The extremely high rate of infection in Cuban hospitals, the requirement in many that patients who want clean bedding, personal cleaning supplies, or even better painkillers such as Percocet must bring their own (as well as be prepared to tip surgeons, nurse, and floor staff) negates much of the benefits for Cubans who lack those resources.
I’m sorry, but there’s nothing blah blah about Healthcare. It is a basic human right in most civilized societies and forcing your citizens to choose between getting better and ruining their families is inhumane and hardly the high moral ground from which to judge others.
If we compared how many people died because of inadequate health care (and I don’t mean medical mistakes, but just waiting too long to seek treatment or delaying going to the hospital because not covered) in the US during Castro’s reign to the amount of people he killed, which number is going to be bigger, I wonder?
@Timbuktu – that is a false equivalency. Summary executions of men, women and children by the head of state is not the same as failed domestic policy.
Well said Timbuktu. Castro was an enormously influential revolutionary. Viva la revolution.
@Megan
well, very few things are “the same”. But when you’re dying as the result (or worse – losing a child), I’m not sure that knowing you died because of a failed domestic policy, rather than a violent purge, makes you feel all that better.
In fact, in some ways, it can be worse, because your story is far far less likely to be heard, no one is going to embargo your country and, therefore, there is very little hope that it will ever change, especially since you’re up against the system, and not just 1 dictator or family.
@Megan
You do realize what national holiday just passed, in the USA? how many Natives have been slaughtered on US soil? How many slaves?
Not to mention um, Standing Rock, 2016.
You don’t get to hold up the USA as some sort of virtuous place. All the dirty secrets are exposed, world wide.
@Timbuktu and Original Kay – Here is some helpful background on Castro. It discusses how many Cubans were slaughtered on Cuban soil. And how the entire country was enslaved to meet sugar cane production quotas.
http://www.therealcuba.com/?page_id=55
@megan that is not helpful information. It is a Cuban dissident emigre site. Castro and the Cuban Revolution is of historic importance and requires the attention of academia. Castro said, famously, history will absolve me. Why don’t you read more widely?
@ Megan
Sugar cane, cotton, it’s all the same, right?
@Kail – executing people without a trial at which they have been found guilty is the very definition of summary execution.
@Original Kay – I am struggling to follow your logic. Are you saying that crimes committed in America justify crimes committed in Cuba?
No Megan, that is not what I am saying.
I know you are struggling. The US has fallen and it must be very hard to recognize that, as a country, you are now classified right alongside countries like Cuba, Saudi Arabia.
Like I posted below, glass houses and all that.
@Kali – Please stop putting a lot of words into my mouth. When did I say that Castro was not worthy of study? As a long time human rights worker, I have studied Castro extensively and history will not absolve Castro anymore that it did Trujillo or Duvalier.
Also, the Dalai Lama is also a dissent emigre. Does that discredit him as a human rights advocate for Tibet?
@Original Kay No, America is not like Cuba and Saudi Arabia as evidenced by the fact that I am freely spouting my opinion about my country and my government.
American is not a perfect nation, and I don’t think anyone is claiming that it is. In less than three hundred years it has undergone incredible change and growth and continues to change and grow.
The candidate I voted for as president was not elected but that does mean I will simply capitulate to Trump. I, along with ten of millions of my fellow citizens, will continue to advocate for equity and justice and fight against proposals that threaten what we believe in. As a democratic society, that is my right and I intend to use it.
@Megan
With all due respect, you come from the only country that has effectively launched a nuclear attack on other nation. So it’s pretty hilarious that you’d call out another government on being ruthless and murderous.
@Josefina Unfortunately, a lack of free speech prevents Cubans from speaking for themselves. If people of conscience and citizens of the world do not speak for them, who will?
@Megan
The problem is, you want the world to see America’s ugly, yet recognize its good as well, but reserve the right to label other countries “bad” and anyone who tries to acknowledge the good in them – as delusional, ill-informed, and brainwashed.
America has done plenty of horrible things, yes it goes around telling the world that Castro is a monster, Saddam is a dictator, and USSR is the evil empire. Basically, who do you think you are? I honestly don’t know any other country that routinely espouses that kind of rhetoric on the state level.
@Timbuktu – stop putting words into my mouth. I have said nothing about how I would like the world to view America.
As for who do I think I am? I am someone who has devoted the past three decades working for human rights, social justice, economic justice, and environmental justice in my home country and abroad. As a person of conscience I have every right to do so and will not stopped by the narrow minded notion that people are defined by their country’s history.
@Megan
I was just trying to give some context to you. For an American person to talk crap about a dictator anywhere is terribly hypocritical, because the USA itself has financed and encouraged countless dictatorships. If you want to get your point across clearly, then please do take the time to acknowledge and criticize all those dictatorships, and acknowledge your own history. Because right now, you’re just coming across as a ‘murican bigot who feels the need to hate on every regime that doesn’t adjust to your own interests. Maybe that wasn’t your intention. But that’s how it’s coming across.
@Josefina – Castro’s crimes against humanity are well documented by the UN, numerous human rights groups, and countries that report on such atrocities. Human rights are universal and borderless. To say that I am bigoted because I refuse to applaud a man who overthrew a brutal dictator in order to install his own brutal dictatorship shows that the real prejudice lies with you. I’m guessing you think I am some white girl who fits your stereotype of an ugly American. My hijab wearing grandma is shaking her head at you.
I suggest you check out your local Amnesty International chapter. You clearly don’t understand that we all have a role to play in advancing and protecting human rights.
@Megan
My own country has lived 20 years of dictatorship, human rights violated and all. This dictatorship was because of Americans, for Americans, and sponsored by American money. When YOU, American person (I can’t care less if you’re a white straight guy or a trans muslim woman), come to this place and talk about how much you repudiate dictatorships, I can’t help but to roll my eyes. Because from where I’m standing, you guys love dictatorships more than anyone else in the world. If you care about victims of human rights violations as much as you say you do, then this shouldn’t be hard to understand.
I’m a lawyer myself and unlike you I come from a country that has suffered the consequences of a de facto regime (I have a “disappeared” aunt myself), so I can’t begin to explain how offensive and patronizing it is for you to claim to have a deeper understanding of this than I do (but then again, Americans always know what’s better for developing countries, right?). I never told you to applaud Castro. I’m just telling you you’re not exactly in a favorable position to be judging things like that, or at least not in the way you are doing it right now.
@Josefina – News flash – I don’t run the US government, but I do use my first amendment rights to oppose what I consider illegal actions by any and all governments, including my own.
My father’s family came to America as asylum seekers after every door in Europe, Asia, Central America, and South America closed in their faces as we a very rare religious sect. We will be forever grateful that America took us in when no one else would.
I am curious about you. What country do you live in?
@Joy
You are correct Castro was a ruthless dictator. He just wasnt Americas chosen ruthless dictator like Batista who he overthrew
it is you who are “ill informed” about America and the West role in propping up leaders as bad as or worse than Castro in Cuba , the Caribbean and Latin America
Also I am no supporter of communism but please inform yourself of what Cuba was like before Castro, it was only paradise for a few and certainly not the world greatest democracy
@Megan
I just wanted to say I believe you have come across very well in this debate, contrary to comments.
@Rae – thank you. I appreciate it!
I imagine he would have respected it if he’d been informed in advance. That’s the way of things, whichever side onlookers plonk themselves on vis a vis controversial foreign leaders. Buck House had the flag at half mast when the Saudi king died. Nobody sprung that on them.
The Saudis can do no wrong with our royals, it seems.
Saudi Arabia has oil. Apparently that trumps everything.
Similarly the conservatives went apeshit over Trudeau’s statement about Castro when if you read it, isn’t massively laudatory and certainly isn’t any worse than Harper calling King Abdul of Saudi Arabia a “proponent of peace”.
Although the trudeaueulogies hastag was funny.
He was definitely between a rock and a hard place on this one. He did what he needed to do and I see no problem with it.
First impression is he had to be diplomatic or cause a scene.
At the risk of getting yelled at or in a fight (the latter, I’m not looking for), I’ll just say: good for Harry for keeping it classy, y Descanse en Paz, Comandante.
I respect your right to express your opinion, so no yelling from me. But your Rest In Peace, Commandante is my Good Riddance to a Dictator. You know, potato potahto.
I appreciate it. Still, I’d suggest reading some of the other comments made here.
I kept listening Pablo Milanés “canción por la unidad Latinoamericana” the whole weekend.
… Bolivar lanzó una estrella que junto a Martí brilló, Fidel la dignificó para andar por estas tierras…
It would have been worse if he had walked out, he behaved properly respecting the country he was in regardless of his personal opinion on Castro. Castro was indeed a controversial figure, who led to an oppressive regime but some countries still respect the way he stood up against American imperialism in a time when C.I.A was overthrowing governments in foreign countries every other day
This is the thing with Castro, isn’t it? Many of the good things internationalist lefties say about him are entirely true. Likewise, many of the bad things righties and Cuban Americans say about him are also entirely true.
And yes. Harry was appropriate. BRF supposed to be apolitical.
Exactly this, Castro was not a black and white person. He was complex, just like the rest of us. Yesterday, I saw a news panelist talking about how the “f*ck Castro” mentality is very USA-centric, because there are a lot of countries who had good relations with Castro. I thought she had a point.
That goes for a lot of dictators. American thought on these people is very black and white, but the rest of the world tends to take a more nuanced approach, as does history.
Many Russians are quite fond of Stalin for example. They acknowledge the bad, but also acknowledge how he unified Russia and how it all went to hell for a while there once he was gone. Similar views on Putin. Mao is widely seen as a great leader for a certain period, who would probably be far better remembered if he’d died 20 years earlier than he did. Che is recognized as a deeply f&*&$% up person who nonetheless started something amazing. Mussolini took Italy from a third rate nothing country a second rate world power, and despite everything else that lives on. Franco is still appreciated by many in Spain for the post-war economic boom. Iraqi’s hated Saddam, but also knew that adherence to his cult of personality was keeping a lot of things in check.
Then there’s the Genghis Khan’s and Alexander’s of the world, who we acknowledge as mass murders of the highest degree but celebrate for their enormous impact on the world.
As another good point, not mentioned above: Cuba’s military aid when South Africa attacked Angola was a pivotal moment in the fight against apartheid. Cuba did more to end South African apartheid than the US or the UK ever did.
Does this make suppression of human rights ok? No. Does acknowledging this provide a bigger picture? Yes.
I agree completely and will add that it’s dangerous to either laude or vilify a figure like Castro he both was a freedom fighter and a demagogue who for instance put gays into work camps. He deserves respect for outlasting 9 US presidents then retiring and dying of old age.
“but some countries still respect the way he stood up against American imperialism in a time when C.I.A was overthrowing governments in foreign countries every other day” i agree with you completely @Brea this is one of the reasons the man was so beloved i loved respected and admired him… he also escaped the numerous assassination attempts by the US and lived up to a ripe old age
What was Harry meant to do? Sing and dance during the minute silence. It’s an awkward situation he managed as best he could.
I agree that he did the right thing. It’s not like he said a few words about Castro, said a prayer, etc. Staying silent for a few seconds is just about the most neutral thing you can do.
Good grief, why would people be yelling at Harry? He had no advance knowledge so what was he supposed to do, pitch a fit? Looks like he did the only thing he could when put in this position beyond his control.
What was he supposed to do?
he has manners and he did the right thing.
Precisely.
The British and Americans need to realize that the rest of the world does NOT think like them over everything and anything. Your countries have very much installed and/or propped up dictators throughout modern history when it served your governments of the day. So the “tut tutting” of these countries and how they view Castro rings very hollow and hypocritical. Yes he was a dictator, but if they are friendly to the west, hey..they have no problem overlooking that little fact. Smh…..
Say it again for the kids in the back.
*Applause*
Look at our screwed up history with Assad – he was our best bud for a long-time. Then we didn’t like him. Then we did again. Now not so much, but not enough to do anything significant ….. As you say, caty, smdh. The hypocrisy is head-swivelling.
Exactly! The same with Saddam Hussein. In the 80s, the U.S. was BFF with him and Iraq but then he invaded Kuwait in 1990 and all of a sudden it was “He gasses and tortures his own people! Oh my God!!!”
Well, he was doing that stuff in the 80s and the government knew all about that, but we didn’t give a damn because he was our buffer from Iran. All of a sudden he does something we (the U.S.) didn’t like and he became Public Enemy #1.
No one is saying Saddam was a great guy but the hypocrisy was/is astounding. We’re fine with dictators oppressing their own people as long as they stay on our good side. If Castro had been a friend to the U.S., we would have turned a blind eye to the terrible things he did.
Bingo! The U.S. and many of the European countries have propped up dictators who did inhumane things to their citizenry (Pinochet in Chile/ most Central American, South American and African dictators/ anyone in the Middle East – *cough* Saudi Arabia*cough*), but turned a blind eye because they claimed they were anti-Communist and basically did whatever the U.S. and Brits told them to do. Or in the case of the Middle East, sold us oil.
Castro did some great things but he also did some terrible things. But others have done far worse but were buddy-buddy with the U.S. so what they did to their people was A-OK with us.
Thank you for saying that.
Yep, not exactly a small number of dictators with a horrible human rights record installed and propped up by the US in this very region, sometimes assassinating democratically elected presidents for that. Not to mention that a large part of today’s Islamic terrorism was brought to us by the same process. Americans really do not have a whole lot room to point fingers at dictators.
I’ll always have to chuckle at Michael Moore’s part in Sicko when Cubans where the only ones supporting people fucked over by the American health care system. While there are many, many reasons to condemn Castro’s regime, some seem highly hypocritical. A pet peeve of mine is people going on about homophobia in Cuba. Cuba is now one of the most LGBT friendly countries, while other Western industrialized countries are still lagging behind.
+1 again about LGBTQ issues. From the dark days of re-education camps in the 1960s, Cuba is now leading most countries in this area. And exactly how were the US (and the UK, where I’m from) doing with gay rights in the 1960s?
I’m German. Gay men were still forcibly chemically castrated in the 1980s under the guide of psychiatrists by the state. The paragraph sentencing queer people to jail has only been abolished in the last few years, people are still fighting for rehalibilation, and same sex marriage is still unthinkable with Merkel’s own party making it an issue in the last election that it is incompatible with their party. So while this is all going on in Spanish class I had to learn about homohobia in Cuba while nobody said a word about what was going on in our own country. Now, Cuba is indeed one of the leading countries and people still trying to score points by saying “but Castro was a homophobe.” Don’t get me wrong, there is a horrible history there but also one hell of a double standard.
This comment should be engraved and pinpoint throughout the Internet.
I’m reading these comments with a smile on my face. You all are on point today.
Ladies, thank you so much for your comments on here. I really love reading these threads because I learn a lot.
I’m amazed at some of the things I find out that I didn’t even think about i.e. same sex marriage in Germany.
Thank you.
No equality in marriage, don’t call it same -sex people, call it equality of marriage, that is how many people of LGBTQ call it as i have learned from friends.
Sadly there is discussion to legalize child marriage, for people that came here as migrants, to say it like it is :
Fu##Ing A##hole ADULT MEN that married their little child brides back home in their country and then came here as refugees, most of the girls between 12 and 16.
Till now more than 1500 of such ‘marriages’ are known now.
Sorry, ranting hatefully here, hate child rapists, because of my own childhood.
These marriages have a Million times better chance to become legal here, than marriage equality for LGBTQ.
About CASTRO, are there any where in the world really good State leader?
I never heard of anyone. SOME OPPRESS MORE, SOME OPPRESS LESS.
HARRY was doing the right thing, showing Respect as much as was needed to the wishes of his guest country.
Hey, don’t be too quick to cast stones. You don’t know what people will say when Trump finally kicks the bucket.
You know, living in a glass house, and all.
Chin up! at 71 and his present state of health, it shouldn’t be too too long.
As for Harry, he did what he had to do, in crappy circumstances.
I mean the whole Castro is THE WORST is a very USA mentality. He is a very respected figure in the Caribbean and for a lot of other smaller countries who have tried and been trying to resist American imperialism. And you can talk about white cubans in miami, but talking to white exiled cubans in miami about castro is like talking to former white slaveowners about general grant and the burning of atlanta. You’re only getting one side of a complicated story.
^^ this right here.
Exactly
The Cuban missile crisis and Mariel boat lift dominate older Americans’ views of Cuba. Soviet nuclear missiles pointed at your country and only 90 miles offshore would taint your opinion of Castro for a long time. I understand why my dad despised Castro. But many Americans including my dad also saw some of the positive things Castro did for his own people. So give us Americans a break please.
“Power corrupts.”
That’s it. (economy of words).
Absolutely.
(see what I did there?)
🙂
Poor Harry, this tour is just a disaster! Between the Meghan distractions, the lack of coverage, now this…
In this case, I think he did the right thing. But overall the tour really needs to be put out of its misery.
Poor Harry or any royal for that matter… yes they live a comfortable life but man, they pay for it in many ways.
I would say in this case, unfortunately, Harry was caught (politically) between a rock and a hard place.
I’ve visited Cuba and there were plenty of British and German tourists and they didn’t seem to mind the restrictions several years ago ie- there was the special Cuba tourist money only (not sure if it’s still in use), armed officers equipped with machine guns were on patrol all over the airport tarmac and inside the airport, a woman passed toilet paper to me as I walked inside the airport bathroom (extreme rationing) and when we arrived en masse (controlled travel on the island) to the hotel, we immediately had to surrender our passports to hotel mgmt until our departure back to the airport.
It must have been a little nerve-wracking to hand over your passport like that. Did you know beforehand you would be surrendering it?
Lady D: no, the travel agent didn’t advise me in advance of having to surrender my passport with hotel mgmt. I was in the south of Cuba ie- Santiago de Cuba. The beaches were rocky and small so most guests stayed by the pool. The little bit of freedom we had was a day when a small group of us (five) rented mopeds. It was sad to see how the Cubans lived in such extreme poverty.
I know I’ll probable get stones for this but anyway, here it goes:
Latin America is polarized in the aftermath of Fidel’s death, half are celebrating the end of a tyranny while the others are mourning the end of an era of hope. Yes, hope. Why? Well it is extremely complex to explain this in a single post and in a foreign language. I’ll try my best.
First some facts:
According to UNICEF, Cuba is the ONLY place in Latin America where there are not malnourished children. It also has the lowest rate of infant mortality in the Americas (counting Canada and the USA).
According to the UN, Cuba is the ONLY place in Latin America without drugs problems.
According to ONEC, Cuba has the highest life expectancy in in Latin America along with Chile.
According to UNESCO, Cuba has a schooling rate of 100% for primary school and 99% for secondary school.
According to WWF, Cuba is one of the few countries in the world that is truly sustentable and ecological.
And it also has the double of doctors than England for a smaller population.
Now, let’s note that Cuba has done all of this despite of an embargo from the most powerful country on the planet.
I’ve been to Cuba. I have a Cuban uncle so I was able to see no-touristic places. Yes, it is a poor country, yes people live in not great conditions
(less technology, practically no internet, less space, etc. Still I’ve seen way worse in my own country). Yet, you have to always remember they have an embargo over them. Most Cubans I’ve met were conscious about the fact that they were sacrificing away commodities for freedom. Yes, you read right, freedom. Now, freedom doesn’t have the same meaning everywhere or through history. For the Cubans I know, freedom includes not being a semi-colonial nation to the USA, as are so many in the world (including mine).
Cuban Revolution didn’t just made an impact on the island and the US, it caused a shift in the mind of many people in Latin America. It encouraged the Latin American brotherhood. It gave the feeling that is was possible to not being completely oppressed to the USA. Cuba supported the end of Apartheid, Palestine State and the end of Middle-East war (another controversial topic itself), they always condemn terrorists attacks and have lend their top level medics when they’ve been required because of different tragedies.
And yes, I am fully aware Fidel mistakes. I’m also not diminishing the pain of those who lost loved ones, have suffered the regime, or the political views of those against him.
Personally, I don’t support Communism but I just wanted you to see another perspective of this issue, because from my own experience, most people outside Latin America can’t really understand the implications of Fidel, Che, Camilo and the Cuban Revolution in our countries. Here, and for the Cubans I know, it is way more complex than you think.
Perfectly said.
So well said, Saks. Appreciate this and Kaiser’s well-balanced article. As someone from the Caribbean, whose island has benefitted directly from Cuban aid, we have a very different perspective on Castro. And if I’m being honest, my island used to be a slave colony of the British Empire, so I’m actually having more problems with the symbolism of Harry’s visit than anything else at the moment. Reallllly tired of the European civilization fairytale.
& just to put a bit of context onto how every country has good & bad points:
“The number of hospital beds in England taken up by patients being treated for malnutrition has almost trebled over the last 10 years, in what charities say shows the “genuinely shocking” extent of hunger and poor diet.”
This was reported last week so we are certainly in NO position to throw stones.
Pip – cos I can get free books (I’m an editor), I always get tapped up before Christmas by a local children’s charity which makes up stockings of presents for the children of families in crisis/on the breadline. Since 2010, the number of stockings they’ve needed to make up has quadrupled. Most of the parents are working. And it’s not all single parent families. How can we have families with two working parents that can’t even afford to buy their kids a Christmas present? Anyone who thinks I, Daniel Blake is an exaggeration really needs to take a seat.
I mean, we’re Britain. In terms of double standards, we’ve got the colonial legacy, the current foreign policy AND our own people dying of bloody malnutrition. And that’s before I start on the web monitoring bill and Prevent and all the rest of the freedoms stuff.
Where on earth we get off criticising other countries, I just don’t know.
@ Sixer, this is bloody depressing. The world’s 5th largest economy and this is happening in our cities/towns. Really sad.
I know.
Just so that you don’t go away completely depressed – I emailed all the publicists I know and the response was just fabulous. I got picture books, nursery rhyme and fairy tale anthologies, early readers, sticker books, annuals, activity books. And even a pile of mini teddy bears left over from some promotion or other. Every child on that charity’s list will get at least one story book and at least one annual/activity book.
I think people are often much too happy to stay oblivious to what’s going on. But when it’s put directly in front of them and they can’t look away, they almost always respond with generosity.
@ Sixer,
Well Done! Truly……I’m really impressed. We do something similar at work for Citizenship activities but only in November each year. We can all do more.
I just visited Cuba a few weeks ago. There were definitely hardships and limitations, but I saw no homeless people in all of Havana, and a member of the group who had to get emergency medical care said it was excellent, although the supplies were limited. The support of the arts was impressive as well. Castro achieved that through brutal means, literally killing people who didn’t support his ideals, but some of his ideals were worthwhile. I would never support him as a leader, but it’s weird to celebrate someone’s death.
Really enjoyed reading that, thanks for taking the time to post
*sees Thread* *Remembers where she lives* *promptly exits* I’m not about to discuss Nuance and what right US forfeited fairly recent about stone casting and totalitarian types, Nope, Not today Satan!
Yuppers.
Seriously, what is wrong with some of you guys? The guy had mass firing sqauds for dissidents, forced abortions on women that would have mentally disabled children, banned religion, created self-imposed embargoes against medical aid and food from swedish and Canadian governments and then blamed it on the US embargo, killed dissenting journalists like it was a game of tiddlywinks, has many accusations of child abuse against him, destroyed smalls farms, but Yay! Free healthcare. Christ almighty you guys. Btw, before I get “well, you’re an American blah blah blah”, i’m a citizen of the british commonwealth.
And the British “Commonwealth” has such a stellar record of human rights?
Because being British somehow makes it better? 🙂
What I don’t understand is this: do you not realize that we can rattle off a list of British sins just as long or longer than this. So, should we celebrate when your Queen dies, then? Why not? I’m fairly sure she was either first in line or even ruling when gays were prosecuted and chemically castrated in the UK, and, if I remember correctly, she is still refusing to recognize them? So, honestly, how is this not a double-standard?
Yep, it’s the worst, too! But to compare them to a man that mirrored Hitler in many ways with his own concentration camps. Bahahahaha you guys are disgusting. Bet you just think Nazi’s are poor and misunderstood. Probably call them the alt right and everything!
@Zeddy
The problem with every single person who is, so to speak, anti-Castro on this thread is that they are so damn sure that they have THE right answer.
All of the people on the other side are readily acknowledging the atrocities that he committed, but you completely ignore that. I guarantee you that NOT A SINGLE PERSON who pointed out some positive sides of Castro regime is a Nazi sympathizer and it’s quite insulting that you’d insinuate something like that.
But I’m sorry, you’re not getting your black and white answer from me. Sue me. I still fail to understand how putting people in concentration camps is worse than, say, slavery and brutal colonization. Again, the latter must have taken far more lives than Castro did. Again, shall we celebrate the passing of the Queen when it happens? I mean, she’s the direct descendant of the family that benefited from blood and sweat the most…
Timbuktu
Notions of exceptionalism in ex-superpowers take a LONG time to disappear. YouGov conducted a poll earlier this year, asking Britons whether the British Empire and it colonialism was a good thing or a bad thing. 43% said it was good, 19% said it was bad and 25% said it was neither.
In 2016. Almost half of Britons think the Empire was benign. Only 1 in 5 think it was harmful. In 2016!
People’s selective blindness to actual facts on the ground because of some perceived moral superiority over others never ceases to depress me.
Yes Rock meet Hard Place.
And that’s all I’m gonna say.
I always roll my eyes when Americans shit on Castro’s government. Don’t get me wrong. I’m aware of the human rights violations and everything that comes with dictatorships. My country lived 2 decades of that under Pinochet, a dictatorship endorsed and sponsored by American money. Books were burned, dissidents were tortured and murdered, children were sexually abused like crazy, and, well, basically everything you’re calling Castro out on.
Chile is just another random example of the USA messing with foreign politics, replacing a bad governor with someone equally bad if not worse.
I’ve always wondered how and what Americans are taught about the Cold War.
A Russian friend once got verbally attacked by an American over the Cold War. Taken aback, she tried to reason with him, but he refused and shouted “do you realize how many American troops lost their lives in that war???”.
Very little. We’re taught that the cold war was a result of the US entering the global stage after WWII and not wanting anyone to ever use nuclear weapons again. That turned into an anti-USSR stance because the big worry was that the USSR would get and use them because they’re godless communists who won’t let their people keep their own money. High school students generally learn that we tried to extend our influence economically, then politically, and only militarily as a last resort (Vietnam) in order to halt the spread of communism. Only university level history classes mention Latin America, Africa, or the Middle East as areas of contention. We do learn about Senator McCarthy’s crusade against Americans as being a dark moment in US history, but not much about how the US gov’t’s crusade against communism affected the rest of the world.
I’d be surprised if the average American high school graduate had more than a fortnight of study of the subject. 90+% of what I learned wasn’t from high school.
Americans are taught very little about the cold war. Most Americans are also ignorant about America’s meddling in Central and South America.
Google about Danilo Maldonado aka El Sexto and many others who have been wrongly imprisoned
So, we have a lot of people from all over the world here, and I would really love to hear: if you’re from a country with good social safety net, free education, free healthcare, are you people really ok with it? Are they appreciative of it? Is it more or less a universally accepted fact that it’s a good idea? Or are there plenty of people complaining, but not actively enough to implement changes on state level?
It’s just that the idea of free health care and free education is met with SO MUCH FREAKING HOSTILITY in America, often from the very people who would benefit from it greatly, with so many people either unable or unwilling to see beyond their immediate best interest, lacking empathy to imagine themselves disabled, sick, that I honestly struggle to imagine a society where working towards the common good is a consensus.
UK:
Universal healthcare, free at the point of use: absolutely everyone supporting.
Welfare benefits for unemployed/disabled: half in support; half supporting for the “genuine” and by “genuine” meaning not those nasty immigrants/single mothers.
And I would add that in the UK people support free public education. We disagree on issues like selective grammar schools, but virtually no one here supports a voucher system where the voucher can be used at independent (private) schools. If you want to send your child to Eton, you have to pay for it.
Australian here. We are so used to having all those things, we complain about waiting lists. I personally don’t know anyone of any age ever, ever saying universal health care is a bad idea. Shelter, education and health care are basic human rights.
(Of course it’s not perfect; and human rights in Australian history, and in fact now regarding asylum seekers, is beyond appalling.)
Universal education and health care, not free. Supporting all members of society typically through taxation and the social compact.
I am all in favor of it. I have seen it work, not, alad, in my own country.
How do we get there, as a society? How did YOU guys get there? It wasn’t always the case? Where did your countries get the collective will to do it?
I mean, to me it’s common sense, so I may be getting too americanized and feel like it requires an effort whereas it’s taken for granted elsewhere?
I just don’t see universal healthcare in the US in my lifetime, and that really scares me. That issue alone is almost enough to make me want to move. I don’t understand how every American isn’t constantly terrified of getting sick or hurt.
In the UK, it’s referred to as the post-war settlement. Introduction happened pretty quickly: the NHS, the welfare state and social housing were brought in by a Labour government following WWII and there was a general consensus among the population that these were things the country deserved after 6 years of sacrifice.
So um… not sure you’d want a war and millions of dead citizens to create the conditions for introduction!
@Sixer
Yeah, let me find out more about the Australian model. 🙂
I grew up in Germany.
Tax-based Universal healthcare: never met anyone who thinks that’s a bad idea. Some might say that the German system comes with too much bureaucracy and they’re not wrong about that, but everyone supports the system. A couple of years ago, there was a law that required you to pay about $4 / 12 weeks I think for visiting a doctor. So much resistance that they got rid of that law some time ago.
I’ve lived in the UK for a while and I prefer the German system over the English one.
Free education: Everyone okay with that. Same as above: there was a law allowing unis to charge students up to 1000 Euros/year in fees. A lot of unis refused to do that and that law existed for 3 years max because people were not having it-
Social net, welfare etc: Most or pretty much everyone supports the system, but some people differenciate between “genuine” and “not so genuine” (as Sixer has said).
@Valois
Well, I’ve never experienced the German medical bureaucracy, so I suppose it *COULD* be worse, but it’s not like the American system is bureaucracy-free, especially when they are trying to screw you out of money. For example:
I got pregnant the same month I got my insurance (it was a planned pregnancy, that was the plan all along – to wait until we have insurance, then get pregnant, we just didn’t expect it to happen on the first cycle, but it did). The doctor at the student clinic backed me up 100% and dated the pregnancy after the beginning of insurance, and yet they STILL put me through hell refusing to pay my bills for 6 months. You wouldn’t believe the time and tears I spent figuring this out. The only way it actually got resolved was when we got an insurance representative on campus. I met with him, he happened to be a decent person, so he personally went and sorted it out for me. I’m really not sure I would’ve pulled it off on my own.
@Timbuktu and Josefina
Wonderfully summed up. I always roll my eyes whenever I am reading nonsense in the media coming from American politicans.
Wow, I really wish you guys were there in the Dlist comment section for the post about Castro’s death. I had basically said he was a complex figure who initially had good intentions for his country, but became an authoritarian figure who did abuse his power. And I got fucking eviscerated by people when I said that Cuba had free health care. Someone there started yelling at me and basically concluded their comment saying that I was clearly some welfare-leeching bum who should work for themselves instead. O_____O And then someone else defended that individual bc they were from Venezuela and their country is going to shit right now so it makes it okay for them to yell and attack me. It was pretty crazy. I appreciated the nuanced view a lot of you guys have toward Castro.
That’s why Castro and his revolution failed. It made people think that capitalism equals freedom.
As a latin american woman myself, I can tell you it’s very, very hard to find people here willing to discuss this with a pragmatic point of view. My facebook is flooded with praise for Fidel Castro from leftists. The same people who (rightfully) attack Pinochet and say that the economic growth achieved under his government doesn’t justify human rights violations, are now overlooking all of that to praise Castro.
And the truth is I can’t exactly blame them for not being pragmatic. The Cold War left Latin America extremely shaken and divided.
Yeah that second last picture pretty much sums up Harry’s awkwardness in this situation.