I honestly kept forgetting to write about this story. Like, other things kept coming up and it really did slip my mind. DB Weiss and David Benioff are the well-known showrunners for Game of Thrones. They’ve been doing GoT since the beginning, and the show has become about their vision as much as G.R.R. Martin’s. Game of Thrones is not known for its inclusion or its sensitivity towards racial issues. So it’s odd to many people that Benioff and Weiss’s first post-GoT project is going to be a TV show called Confederate, a “what-if” Twilight-Zone-esque show about what America would be like if the Confederacy had won the Civil War, and become their own slave-based nation.
The end of “Game of Thrones” is on the horizon, but creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have already mapped out their next plan at HBO for when they officially depart Westeros. HBO has given a series order to “Confederate,” a new drama that hails from Benioff and Weiss, Variety has learned. The show has no ties to “Game of Thrones” and is not one of the many potential prequels in development at the network.
“Confederate” chronicles the events leading to the Third American Civil War. The series takes place in an alternate timeline, where the southern states have successfully seceded from the Union, giving rise to a nation in which slavery remains legal and has evolved into a modern institution. The story follows a broad swath of characters on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Demilitarized Zone – freedom fighters, slave hunters, politicians, abolitionists, journalists, the executives of a slave-holding conglomerate and the families of people in their thrall. Production on “Confederate” will begin after the final season of “Game of Thrones.”
Benioff and Weiss created “Confederate” and will serve showrunners, executive producers and writers, along with Nichelle Tramble Spellman (“Justified,” “The Good Wife”) and Malcolm Spellman (“Empire”), who will co-write the series and executive produce. “Game of Thrones” producers Carolyn Strauss and Bernadette Caulfield will also serve as executive producers.
The idea of two white dudes acting as showrunners for a show that what-ifs the existence of a confederate slave-based nation has obviously drawn some ire. Journalist Pilot Viruet tweeted: “Give me the confidence of white showrunners telling HBO they wanna write slavery fanfic.” Roxane Gay wrote: “It is exhausting to think of how many people at HBO said yes to letting two white men envision modern day slavery. And offensive.” Some actors are calling for a boycott of the show. It’s worth noting – as Variety did – that Weiss and Benioff are showrunning a show which will be executive-produced and written by the Spellmans, a well-respected husband-and-wife producing-and-writing team who just happen to be African-American.
Anyway, Benioff and Weiss have been reaching out to trade papers and other outlets, trying to calm everyone’s fears about this. You can read some of their interviews here and here. I’m not going to excerpt from them because… there’s nothing really new here. Personally, I was sort of offended by that “What if the Nazis had won WWII?” show, The Man in the High Castle, but I simply didn’t watch it. That’s what this is like to me – a mildly offensive product which I won’t watch. I get why people are offended. I also understand how a show like this gets greenlighted, because a lot of people love that kind of alternate-timeline history bullsh–t.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Game of Thrones is super racist, so this should work out grrrrreat /s.
Yea they can have a seat. People act like there isn’t modern day slavery and racism going on. FFS didn’t we just see Rep Lewis crying over seeing old photos of himself protesting and getting beaten?! This isn’t a fun way back when topic. It hurts a lot of people still. It’s only been 50 years and we are still fighting. I wish people would just stop with the BS
Why?
Hard pass.
You would think that these two would understand why this is so controversial, but then again, I still don’t think they get why all their multiple rape scenes were controversial.
Right? GoT was bad enough. Who though this was a good idea? Actually, perhaps I’d rather not know. UGH.
I really don’t have a problem with the concept and there are apparently black power players bhs. The test will come in the story. If they give us some white saviour crap or some story about whites teaching black peoples to fight for their own liberty ala Django and Maids, then they’ll catch it.
My first reaction was “are you f-ing kidding me?”
But then I started to wonder if this is what is needed, in today’s climate, to spell out exactly what people would have lost and might still lose, if trump and his minions continue.
Then, I thought NOPE. The people who would be affected byt this already KNOW, and those that might learn don’t f-ing care, they would see this show as the future that “dems” robbed from them.
So big fat f-ing NO from me.
THIS ^
Ripoff of Man in Castle, only a different war.
I mean that’s overly simplistic theres a whole genre of books that capitalize off of the “what if’ theme. Including “Underground Airlines” which is an acclaimed book about what if the slavery still existed today (written by a black man). ‘The Plot Against America’ which wonders what would have happened if the Anti Semitic Charles Lindburgh defeated FDR and on and on. The problem I have is with these particular show runners who barely if ever feature people of color on GOT aren’t really people I trust with this topic. Considering how violent and brutal GOT is and how they aren’t in anyway ‘woke’.
Unless Ben Winters is white passing…
The writer of Underground Airlines is a white guy, which is one of the reasons why the novel garnered a fair bit of attention around its release.
Ah I apologize I thought he was black I what an idiot I am (google is your friend).
You are thinking of Underground Railroad by Colson Whitehead. Both books, in my opinion are fine achievements. To view art or judge it’s merits through a purely political lens is dangerous–alternate timeline sci-fi may not be your thing, but none of us have seen this show and to condemn it out of hand is wrong. It may be a good piece of work, it may not be.
Thanks ELX yes I believe I am.
I didn’t say I wouldn’t give it a chance but it does make me nervous that these two are tackling the subject.
i agree with ELX. art is supposed to make you uncomfortable, to be controversial, and to make you think. art is not here to warm your heart and dry your tears, no matter your political affiliation. i mean, it sure can, but great art will always be transgressive. plus, one can assume with certainty they will not glorify slavery. i don’t care if you are conservative or liberal, calls to boycott art, to condemn it as dangerous, are totalitarian. and in advance no less! that’s much more frightening to me than a dystopian tv show.
The point of the book Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick is entirely lost on the Amazon show in its attempt to be all “Nazis in America! Soooooo weird!” and fetishize it with Reich imagery. The point of the book is the casual acceptance of fascism and how much of history comes down to chance and luck. There is no morally superior timeline and things don’t happen because they were supposed to happen.
This would actually be a similarly great point to make about slavery given the modern state of America. Too bad it would probably be bastardized just as much by these 2 white guys as with MitHC.
Difference is, MitHC is a true “what if?’ (Nazis never came to US), while slavery actually happened here, was horrific enough even though the North won, and it is still affecting race relations in this country to this day. Why make a series depicting a even WORSE scenario? Wasn’t the original historical event savage and degrading enough?
Of course, Benioff and Weiss will fill this series with what they do best: gratuitous violence, nudity, rape, torture, etc. As privileged white men, they can do whatever they want – including co-opting one of the most terrible institutions to exist in America just because they want to be “edgy” and “ground-breaking.” And because HBO is terrified of the huge hole that GoT will leave when it ends next year, they’ll throw money at whatever Benioff and Weiss want – no matter how offensive.
Benioff and Weiss are super arrogant though. Every criticism regarding GOT they described as keyboard warriors, haters or idiots who didn’t get the show. They didn’t even pretend to care or listen. So how are people like that supposed to adress a super delicate topic like that?
Yes, let’s give the racist and white supremacists fodder for their wet dreams. That’s exactly what’s needed right now in this political climate. FFS, the US has never properly dealt with actual slavery/racism & these fools want to show them what could have been? Hell no!
This is exactly the conclusion I got to, only you stated it much much better.
Exactly.
I was on another forum where this topic came up and the comments were well..let me put it this way you could tell who the ethnic writers were vs the non ethnic writers.
All in all this is a bad idea and you have summed it up quite nicely.
Thank you for articulating this. I wasn’t getting past )&@#%_!@%!
You really think the white supremacists need a show to influence them when the ideas are already there? Makes no difference to me and a lot of other black folks cause the oppression we face has not gone anywhere. As far as my grandfather was concerned the Confederacy won in a lot of ways. You can take away the institution but what good does that do when the values and beliefs that uphold it remain in this country today. All removing the institution serves to do is for the majority to give themselves a pat on the back, but the oppression just takes on other forms. Systemic racism and oppression are crafty like that.
I’m black and I live in the South. I know full well about racism. There’s no need to put out a show, where they’ll romanticize and glorify slavery and award its actors for going against their natural instincts.
Jesus Christ, this is the dumbest idea in the history of ideas and it never needed to be explored EVER, let alone at a time in this country when we have a president that panders to hate groups and stokes rabid xenophobia and racism every chance he gets.
I assume HBO is looking at the GoT showrunners pitching this and seeing dollar signs, but my god – SERIOUSLY???? They can’t even include POC in their own show unless they are secondary characters and now they essentially want to create a show that is slavery porn for neo nazis to circle jerk to??
And of course how the writers justify this is “But we have black people writing things!!”.
F*ck you. Seriously.
I couldn’t agree more!!!
@grabbyhands,i really wonder what has happened to the HBO executives who have greenlit the wire and treme.
Retirement? Firing?
The only black show they keep as a their equivalent to their only black friend is Insecure.
This show creator has explained in interview she had to fight, so the female protagonists could be dark skinned.
Westworld casting seems to show she tells the truth as both female and male black leads are fair skinned.
Sorry too close to home right now.
Wait, I thought the Confederacy did win, just this past November? #colormeshocked
THIS.
That was my thought too.
I feel like the past year has been a lesson in re-assessing history: the Confederacy won the Civil War, and the Russians won the Cold War.
Please stop. No one asked for this.
I think it could be quite interesting, especially if it doesn’t shy away from the reality of life for people who are still treated as “less than”.
People will deny it like they always do in front of horrors when they sympathize.
Holocaust is denied even with photos, people romanticize antebellum slavery with films, fashion blog or wedding on Plantation, rape victims are considered as guilty, genocides are ignored because history is made by their winning perpetrators, etc.
Letting free rein to white supremacist theorists and make them free advertising in gorgeous picture and esthetics and clothes has only suceed in helping them grabbing power on states and frail and opportunistic brains
Oh FFS, really?? Must be because that it is what this country, already a police state, needs right now.
“…slavery remains legal and has evolved into a modern institution.” Yeah it’s called the American prison system. Don’t need a television show to guess what would have happened. This is a hard NO from me.
This exactly.
Maybe an interesting show would be this: the confederacy wins, they form a separate nation. Slaves outnumber slave owners significantly (historic fact). A well coordinated rebellion succeeds, and former slaves take control of the south. The show would follow the formation of the new government, the desperation of former slave owners trying to escape to the north, the north refusing to take them and building a wall to keep them out, and the new African American nation negotiating trade deals with the north. It could take all of our current events and turn them on their side.
That would be cool.
As a black woman I already live with enough bullsh-t. I’m not going to voluntarily expose myself for more of it. I won’t be watching it.
Maybe this would work if this country wasn’t still dealing with the fallout of that war and what happened before it. Unfortunately, we are. And frankly, I’m tired of seeing PoC abused on TV and calling it entertainment. We see to much real s**t on our screens enough as is.
And why is it we never see these “alternate history” storylines that don’t involve minorities still being victimized? Why is there no story about what would happen if America wasn’t colonized? Natives weren’t almost wiped out? LGBT were easily excepted?
I don’t care if the writers are black, I won’t be watching this dumbass show.
THIS!
People said the same on twitter. Why can’t the what ifs have slave and the natives band together or what if there wasn’t a huge colonization movement.
Fact is these shows only profit off minority pain. Like others have stated we go through enough in 2017. We don’t need this BS.
THIS!! Say it again for the people in the back!
I was about to write the same thing. How about there is no usa it is still coutry of indians and slaves are whites who wanted to slaughter them.
I agree with what you’re saying about commodification of minority pain. I would just say that much of alternative history fiction (esp. books) is predicated on the argument that history is due to chance, and traits inherent to human nature like bias, subjugation, discrimination, etc continue despite changes in circumstances. That is why they continue to depict those things.
Btw, that isn’t a viewpoint I’d argue. I tend to look at progress as incremental but catalyzed by different events. Even if change is minor or imperceptible, there are significant gains that could be made through different choices. Take, for example, if Hillary had won. Sexism, racism, homophobia, etc would still exist, for sure. But there would be less of an enabling environment for them.
As if they’ll actually use anything the black writers contribute – they’re on staff just to show that there’s “African-American involvement.”
Can we at least watch the pilot before we criticize it?
NO !!!! Don’t come here with that racist crap. I am calling you out, right now.
No.
yes.
As an alt-ending fan i will say the plot is nothing new… the same story line has been told with variations probably since the war ended. ‘Bring The Jubilee’ is one example and im sure ive heard of more but the titles escape me…same goes for WW1 and WW11
I happen to be one of those people who didn’t watch GOT…. I’m not familiar with the writers either and so consider me less biased when saying im intrigued and would watch to see their perspective and outcome as so many have been presented
I am black, and I am interested in the spin they have to this. To me, it is racist calling people out before they have actually done or said anything. It is a disservice to me and others to sit there and assume what is going on in another man’s head, black or white or yellow. FOR SHAME! I will render my judgment WHEN the verdict is due, and not before based on what I THINK will happen rather than what ACTUALLY happens.
Ridiculous.
I do not even know where to begin. There are probably a handful of jokes to be made like “jeez, I wonder where do they draw their inspiration from?” But I will pass on that and just come out and say it: it is absolutely clear to me that those two dudes just enjoy endless violence. i know there are a lot of GoT fans around here, but I find that show oversimplifying politics and over-stressing and glamorising violence. And that is probably how they came up with the new show plot. Because it is a perfect setting to further indulge in that. Having said that, someone really should tell them they went too far: who needs a show at this point in American and the world history that indulges in alternative reality, violence and racism? Unless they are living in a bubble they should be able to see how reckless they are. I never liked those two, now I am sort of starting to hate on them.
One major difference between this and the man in the high castle, is that there was existing source material that gave people an idea of where things were headed with that show. This is just confederacy fan wank from two white dudes with a lets say “interesting” history.
i know im hypocritical, but i kinda love man in the high castle. but its prob because it doesnt touch be directly…. but Confederate is too much for me personally. I mean my grandmother was a sharecropper deemed attractive by the KKK so she and her family were warned during the KKK rideouts….she was just born in 1936 so this was the 40’s. I mean i still cant wrap my mind around that….I just cantttttttttttttttt
when i watch the man in the high castle its almost like watching the inner conflict of bigotry amongst white people….however more and more im disturbed by this good nazi rhetoric and should prob stop watching the show.
feel free to pulverize this comment …just being honest tho
No.
Thanks guys for the Alt Right’s future fave show.
How about a well-written story, featuring a predominantly Af-Am cast, that has NOTHING to do with hip-hop *or* slavery?
Please?
I can’t believe 90’s black tv series would be that subversive in the 2010’s
Agreed! I would love to see some of the classic novels from the Harlem Renaissance adapted for either film or miniseries. There are so many untold stories about African Americans that do not involve slavery or gangs, and I feel like society as a whole would benefit from having those stories told.
The difference between this and Man in the High Castle is that the latter was 1) based on a thoughtful science-fi novel and 2) when it came out it was before Jewish people came under fresh fire due to the racists unleashed by the election. This is the brain product at people who are kind of terrible at coming up with new material, and who when adapting material that is ALREADY rapey and racially problematic, ADD rape and racial problems. And it’s coming out in THIS context. When black people are being killed every week by police and seeing no justice, when the fire black Americans are facing is fierce. When there are millions of people who will see a show about an America that never abolished slavery, and see wish fulfillment. WE DON’T NEED TO GIVE THE ALT-RIGHT A ROADMAP TO THEIR DREAMS, for fucks sake.
thank you PPP…. i was like damn but Man in the High Castle is awesome but Confederate seems like KKK porn
I think this will be a major s-show, for many of the reasons people mentioned above. That said, I like alternative historical fiction and think it could work IF the Confederacy is shown as the North Korea of the American continents.
I don’t suppose these guys will mention it, but western civilization has benefitted tremendously from the contributions of people who (in this reimagining) will be dead or never born. The ability to type blood, for example, making safe transfusions possible. How would they show this sort of thing?
Nope. Nope. Nope. Their history with GOT does not inspire confidence that they have the subtle touch to do this show. It’s all going to be beatings, rape and throat-cutting. And because it’s them, more sexposition, I’m sure.
I find it interesting how so many shows nowadays look back eg mad men and even GOT (though its fantasy ofcourse). I believe there was an era (60s to 80s maybe?) where a lot of shows were imagining the future …not just shows but books too like the Martian chronicles.
maybe its not just nostalgia for the select few. maybe one day this era of entertainment will be cited in history books as one of the harbingers of the end of white supremacy. its hard to imagine what the world will look like without it and the capitalism it props up hence the failure of imagination in Hollywood.
I have zero interest in watching this. I have no idea why they thought this was a good idea.
There was a movie in which Hitler won. Bad idea.
This is even worse. I also don’t care for GoT. I’d rather watch sth meaningful. Or silly and funny.
Reading the blatantly racist and hateful comments on Faux News is enough confederacy for me. I remember how a key part of Chris Rock’s stand-up “Bring the Pain” was quickly commandeered by racist white people. And this HBO show would lead to more of that.
Not a good idea. If we were further along with civil rights then maybe I guess. No, it is better left in books. Skipping
If this get made I will be canceling my HBO subscription. I won’t pay to see that crap! There’s no need for a what if, turn on the news, open a news paper and then there social media. This is just ridiculous!
Wow I’m in the minority here lol. I liked Man In The High Castle in how it created this totally different world that I could “live” in for an ep or two, then say “phew, thankfully THAT didn’t happen.” I think there’s an opening to turn the whole Glorious Confederacy myth on its head and show what a horrible place the US would be had the South won, rather than a KKK wet dream.
AMEN.
The south was a lot more complicated in the Civil War than just believing everyone was pro slavery. Even if the confederates would have won, the South itself would had still been divided. Many parts of the South and families in the south fought for the Union. My family being one of them after our county left the state. The civil war was a very complicated battle map and from the sound of this show its basically the bad horrible slave holders versus “America”. Nope on this one especially when tensions and seperation is so high is America right now. Bad timing and a bad idea.
My research has supported this.
There is a great mock-umentary about this very subject on Amazon prime video already. It’s so over the top and outrageous, that the movie gets away with dealing such a taboo topic. For example, the movie pretends to be a ‘made for tv’ documentary about how the South won the war. The movie is interspersed with fake television ad spots. Like one for a new GPS runaway slave finder, etc. And an ad for the tv show “runaway”, based on the show COPS. Think it’s called “Confederate states of america”. But it does tackle some real life problems…like if the confederacy had won, the U.S would probably have sided with Hitler, and we would have a cold war with canada due to their lack of slavery.
The difference with Man In the High Castle is that WWII ended. I would argue that although the direct combat of the Civil War ended over 150 years ago, we have never actually ended the war due to the ongoing disenfranchisement of minorities in the US to this day. Makes it a lot harder to have a ‘what if’ show when we’re still living with the effects of that war still.
Kaiser- don’t forget the Spellmans are writing on this- Malcolm Spellman of Empire and his Wife Nichelle who also writes for TV. They are Black and very smart and I think they will do well by black people.