Is Louis CK the one high-profile predator who has a legit shot at a ‘comeback’?

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Of all the “outed” perverts and deviants this year, there’s one famous guy who I think will attempt a comeback and probably be partially successful. That person is Louis CK. We’ve been talking about sexual assailants and harassers for months now, and there are clear patterns in how we discuss their crimes and how these men are being justifiably shunned. Like, I truly believe that Harvey Weinstein is completely over. So is Kevin Spacey. Some of the studio executive sexual harassers who have been fired or suspended will eventually come back, after a year or two. Beyond those guys, I’m worried that after a year, Louis C.K. will be back. Not only that, I worry that he’ll be welcomed with open arms by the comedian bros.

Comedian Bill Burr doesn’t think Louis C.K.’s career is over. After admitting to masturbating in front of multiple women, C.K. was dropped by his agents, publicist and manager Dave Becky, who also represents Burr.

“It’s such a crazy time right now — I love Louis C.K. and that was really obviously just a f—king hard thing to see happen to somebody,” Burr, 49, said on his “Monday Morning Podcast.” “He was definitely 100 percent wrong. I’ll just say this: He was 100 percent wrong, he did own up to it, and I think he will definitely be back.”

Though Burr conceded that C.K. was “100 percent wrong,” the “F is for Family” creator took issue with the backlash C.K., 50, received in comparison to other celebrities, including Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, who were accused of sexual assault.

“It doesn’t make a difference if it’s sexual misconduct all the way to sexual assault [and] rape, you’re getting the exact same level of punishment,” Burr said of the aftermath of C.K.’s scandal. “That’s only my question out of all of this. He was definitely wrong, obviously. But does the punishment match the crime?”

Burr was also unmoved by the increasing pressure on other comedians to fire Becky, as C.K.’s “Better Things” partner Pamela Adlon did upon learning that the sexual misconduct allegations were true.

“I stand by my f—king manager. I’m never firing the guy,” Burr fumed. “I’ve been with this guy since 2006. Dave Becky is one of the great people I’ve met in this business. I wouldn’t be surprised if [the media goes] after Louis C.K.’s mailman saying, ‘If you’re delivering his mail you’re part of the problem.’”

[From Fox News]

The problem will never be that we’re attacking a pervert’s mailman for delivering his mail. But if Harvey Weinstein’s mailman was complicit in sexual assault and rape, then f–k yes HE IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. The reason why people are asking questions about the people around these perverts and predators is because in many of the cases, there were managers, agents, publicists, assistants and executives who were complicit, who actively worked to procure women for abusers, then worked to silence and punish victims, and threatened victims to never speak out.

That being said, I’m sure Bill Burr is right. I think Louis CK will be back, because so many men in comedy feel exactly the same way. Some of Louis CK’s victims think he’ll be back too, because they’ve already been getting hate mail and hate-tweets from Louis’s defenders and fans. Rebecca Corry has been tweeting responses to people questioning her “motives” for coming forward, questioning her “need” to punish Louis CK for something so “harmless,” etc. She’s been posting some of the hate-tweets she’s gotten too. Yeah… Louis CK is coming back at some point. Don’t let him.

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75 Responses to “Is Louis CK the one high-profile predator who has a legit shot at a ‘comeback’?”

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  1. Nicole says:

    Again white dudes will always have their champions. Why are we surprised. Watch whiteness work

  2. slowsnow says:

    I guess it’s the talent thing, which explains Allen (I’m old enough to remember his good films), Polanski, even Spacey etc. These are truly talented people and good friends (see the amazing Sarah Silverman’s reaction to CK’s outing: she says she is angry because what he did is despicable and sad because he is a friend).

    However, one person on Twitter said something like: instead of beind sad that you’ll no longer see this guy’s comedy, be sad that you have never seen the comedy of all the women he/they intimidated.

    I loved this comment. CK making a come back is the least of my concerns and I was a fan.

    • zuzusgirl says:

      “instead of beind sad that you’ll no longer see this guy’s comedy, be sad that you have never seen the comedy of all the women he/they intimidated.” Can’t be any clearer than that.

    • Lahdidahbaby says:

      “instead of beind sad that you’ll no longer see this guy’s comedy, be sad that you have never seen the comedy of all the women he/they intimidated.”

      Oh my God, that comment says it all. How many women have been driven out of their chosen professions because of the harassment of sexual predators? I have quit good jobs because of these kinds of acts, including one boss coming up behind me at the copy machine and putting his hand under my skirt and quickly running it ALL the way up between my legs. When I quit a week later, HIS boss said to me, “You’re a nice girl, [LahdidahBaby]…but there isn’t much of a market for nice girls.”

    • flan says:

      That’s an amazing response.

      There is so much art we’re not seeing because it is hard for women to genuinely make art about ourselves without some man inserting a greasy finger into it (see the Amazons in Justice League wearing skimpy instead of functional armor for instance).

      The only way we can take power away from men and give it to women is by watching movies, theatre, series with a good women presence amongst the creators. Another way is to watch women’s sport both on the telly or at a field/rink/court, visit exhibitions by women, read women authors online and offline etc.

      And watching women comedians of course.

      I’ve been spending my money this way for a while now, and I don’t feel like I miss anything, but gain a lot.

  3. Jussie says:

    He’ll be back. I think it’ll take a long time for him to get back to HBO, headlining stadiums, his own TV shows etc. if ever, but the thing is he’s already in the habit of self-funding his work and selling it directly on his website, so that’s not as much of an issue for him as it would be for many others.

    In a year or so, if he films a show and does what he’s done before, puts it on his website for $5, it’ll sell. And if it’s any good, that’ll be the start of him creeping back.

    As completely messed up as it is, I think more stories need to come out for him to be truly done.

    • KBB says:

      Yeah, he never really relied on networking the way producers, directors, and actors do. I’m sure he’ll just put stuff directly on his site like he did before.

      I was a fan of his and I hope he actually takes a long, hard look at his behavior and steps away for several years. If he tries to stage a comeback next summer or something, I’ll just take it as proof that he was never sincere.

      His male fans are also using the “it happened 10 years ago” argument, so if it happened more recently I hope his victims find the strength to come forward. He hasn’t had the avalanche of allegations after the initial story either which also works in his favor in terms of people excusing what he did.

      What his defenders don’t seem to understand or accept is that this was compulsive predatory behavior. They keep framing it as consensual and it wasn’t.

  4. Luca76 says:

    i doubt he’ll be back at the same level, and I do think that’s a victory. What he did was disgusting immoral and unethical but not what Weinstein did. Weinstein and Spacey deserve long jail time. This guy deserved to loose millions of dollars and be knocked down several pegs in his career. I don’t foresee him doing SNL or having the same broad based audience ever again. Yes he’ll work but not on the same level.

    • emma33 says:

      I agree with this. Weinstein and Spacey are criminals who deserve jail, (particularly Weinstein, he should be in jail for the rest of his life). My personal opinion is that legally, Louis CK probably deserves to be charged and then to have some fairly lengthy community service. I’m not sure if his offences, although serious, deserve jail time. That is just my opinion though, based on what I’ve been reading.

      I think if Louis had had a ‘come to Jesus’ moment on his own and apologized to his victims, then a partial come-back would be OK. But the fact that he lied about what he had done for years, shut down stories and tried to call his victims liars?! No come back for you.

      • Imqrious2 says:

        “No come back for you! No come back for you! No come back for you!” Where’s the Soup Nazi when we need him?

        Joking aside, it IS a crime to whip out your genitals on front of someone when it’s not consensual. Didn’t LCK also block some women from leaving? He is a pig. There should not be a comeback for him, or any other man who does this. I am so sick of the excuses. Rape culture will never be eradicated until these a$$wipes are held completely accountable.

        This is a man with TWO daughters. What would he say/do to someone who put HIS daughters in the position he put those women?? No biggie, CK?? Wanna see that guy go Scott Free w/out consequence?? *crickets*

      • KBB says:

        The initial Gawker blind item (assumed to be about Dana Goodman and Julia Wolov because they’re a female comedy duo, it was in Aspen, and they were warned against talking by Dave Becky) said he blocked the door with his body and they couldn’t leave until he finished, but the NYT piece said he was sitting in a chair. They refused to cooperate when Gawker tried to talk to them, so it’s possible Gawker got the blocking part wrong.

        The other stories in the NYT involve a phone call, a woman he pressured into watching a few times, and the woman who refused and reminded him he had a pregnant wife at home. Gawker had a story about him doing it in Montreal and two women running out of the room.

        The thing is, he also mistakenly apologized for pushing Rebecca Corry into a bathroom, which he didn’t do to her. I think there may have been force at some point, just no stories on the record yet.

  5. Allie B says:

    Yes, the punishment fits the crime! God. I’m sure that many of us know the feeling of a man exposing himself and the fear that washes over you. Even worse is that he lied about it for years.

  6. wood dragon says:

    They are already discussing degrees of this problem, with Spacey and Weinstein being at the deep, worst end and Franken being at the shallow end of the abyss.

  7. Anastasia says:

    He doesn’t deserve ANY kind of comeback.

  8. lala says:

    Bill Burr is gross, I had to stop watching his “comedy” show on Netflix after about 10 mins because it was such misogynistic, body-shaming shit. Not funny, just gross and awful. I’m sure he has some skeletons in his closet that he hopes will never surface.

    • MrsPanda says:

      Me too! His anger toward women is so clear, women are all whiny b****** who henpeck, irritate and nag constantly with high pitched voices. Wow, what insightful and original material Bill, I’ve never seen any male comedians doing ”women always nag” material (insert eye roll). I’m not at all surprised he’s (somewhat) defending his BFF Louis, they are probably very similar at heart. Bill does have funny moments but the sexist jerk factor cancels him for me. I never found Louis funny or understood the hype around him.

      • CGF says:

        I actually love Louis CK’s stand ups and kept seeing Burr being compared to him. I checked out some vids on YouTube and was very disappointed; the guy is not funny AT ALL and the punchline in half of his lame jokes is “B!@tches be crazy, am I right? “

    • magnoliarose says:

      C.K’s actions were aggressive and full of hate and rage at women. There are different ways to humiliate women, and to me, this is one that should not be forgiven. He didn’t do it for sexual gratification as much as a deep hatred for women and needed to do the same thing a rapist does. He is watching the women’s horror as he forces them to watch him pleasure himself. It is about control and rage.
      He is sick and needs to go away.

  9. QueenB says:

    Realistically Louis CK can work without networks, he published his and others stand up through his website. So he probably does have a better shot than others and as I said in a different thread: He profits of being exposed at the same time as super predators. Next to a guy like Tobak with hundreds of victims basically every other perpetrator will look tame.

    Im not really interested in that discussion tho. Right now none of them can come back and they know it. Telling them now they wont come back does nothing really. Its something that will have to be done when they attempt to come back.

  10. anna222 says:

    I loved his show early on and while I wasn’t a hundred per cent sure something was wrong, once I became aware of the rumours I just couldn’t watch it any more. Given how close the character Louie was to Louis himself, and knowing what we do now, I could never come back from that. His brand of predatory behavior really hits home because it’s something I’ve encountered before and it sickens me.

  11. PPP says:

    I hope not, because he’ll remember who took him down and if (hahahaha WHEN) he does it again, women will have even less reason to come forward. It’s not a tragedy when you lose your career for egregious behavior, it’s just sad. The real tragedy is when you have to jump through masturbation hoops to get half as far in your career as those who view you as subhuman prey. If this tidal wave is going to make lasting change, it HAS to be permanent.

    Also, I don’t want to watch this guy laying his psychology bare the way he did his genitals while being applauded for being SO BRAVE.

  12. smee says:

    While Bill Burr has made me laugh in the past, he truly is a misogynist.

    And, yes, LCK didn’t physically attack those women, let’s turn the tables, Bill – what if a “fat chick” (he’s repulsed by them) stripped off and started to rub one out in front of you and your boys? What if she was the head of HBO, let’s say. How would you feel if you had to sit there and take it or risk losing your next stand up show? Hmmm, not so benign now, is it?

    Eff these jerk-offs – you’ll never get my $ again

    • Imqrious2 says:

      THIS!!! ^^^^👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

    • boiledeggs says:

      AND SARAH SILVERMAN’S SISTER TWEETED THAT HE MASTURBATED IN FRONT OF HER TWENTY TIMES!! (I would double bold that if I could). Twenty times. If a female comedian did that even ONCE (as smee said) she would be either a) blacklisted/called crazy b) sexually assaulted because obviously she ‘wants it’. Louis does it TWENTY TIMES to a fellow comedian and it’s all good. I was a Louis CK stan. Now I think he needs massive psych help and he should be held criminally responsible. The double standard is pathetic and the way we have been programmed to sweep this kind of shit under the rug for men HAS TO STOP.

      • magnoliarose says:

        What bothers me is that we are talking about the men and not the women. This about women speaking out and changing society. Why are we already discussing something that is not important. Punishing every individual for past deeds is less critical than teaching women what to do if it happens and preventing this culture to persist. It will turn into a weapon and then twisted to try to make the men seem like the victims.
        The identifying and calling out and being heard is the most important part of the movement.

    • dannii says:

      @magnoliarose “Punishing every individual for past deeds is less critical” pretty sure thats the excuse a lot of defenders of these abusers have used and still used. Why does one need to be more important than the other? Again this sort of reasoning puts the onus on the women who didnt come forward “well if it was that serious why did she wait so long to come forward” etc. So like, can we not.

  13. Talie says:

    Privately, a lot of his comedian friends have probably called him and told him it’s all BS. That’s just the reality. Instead of getting help, he’s probably just waiting it out because people are filling his head with nonsense of comebacks.

  14. T.Fanty says:

    I think he can, if he gets therapy, because I genuinely think this is a psychological problem that he has, and the entitled abuse of power comes from a specific source. I think that he has talked about it so often in the past, it is some kind of deep-rooted psychological issue that he has. I think that the reason he is so successful is that his comedy comes from a very real place, and that smacks of self-loathing and real damage. If that is the case, and I concede, that it’s a big if, I would like to see an example of a man genuinely confront what he has done, grow from it, and move on with his life. I also think that men need to see examples of other men growing and learning. If we are to grow collectively as a society, we need to understand how many men are raised in a toxic environment and offer models of change.

    I like Louis CK, and obviously, that’s coloring my thinking, but I also think he’s the best chance at someone who can actually critically engage with what he has done and potentially open up a healthy and real conversation about it in pop culture.

    • tealily says:

      See, I think men need to see that there is no coming back from this type of thing. It is a zero tolerance situation. And I think that if there is any risk at all, no more potential victims should ever be put in his path.

      • Sky says:

        @Tealily

        👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

      • Imqrious2 says:

        @Tealily: YES! Exactly my thoughts. As I said above, they need to know there are consequences.

      • T.Fanty says:

        I believe that people are fundamentally rehabilitatable. I have to believe that to stay sane in this awful world. Men are conditioned from babies to resist self-reflection, empathy, and to absorb suffering and assert their power in a world that is theirs. I think that a lot of male violence stems from an inability to square that assumption of entitlement with the realities of interacting with a twenty-first century world. Some men can get written off, but a comedian is also a cultural critic and I would rather hope that he can think about what he did and use the platform he will always have because of his past work to demonstrate the value of growth and taking responsibility. Times are changing, for the better, and if we can’t carve a space for men (and women) to grow and change, then we’re all in bigger trouble than we realize.

      • tealily says:

        I think it would be great if he could grow and change, but I’d rather he do it in a new, less public career.

      • Mannori says:

        Absolutely THIS! Men have been getting away with all kinds of gross and criminal behaviour for years! They’ve ALWAYS have been given the possibility of coming back. I wouldn’t be surprised that many of them will USE their arc of redemption to actually profit and reinvent themselves a career, without even being committed and genuine about their redemption. Just to make money and have all the dudes patting them in the back. Oh how virtuous these guys are. That’s why they always keep doing it: there has always been second chances countless of chances actually for white dudes. Mmmmm, nope: no coming back.

      • K says:

        Absolutely.

        You don’t get to do this, lie about doing it and blame victims, and then when finally the jig is up plead newfound social awareness and understanding, so please give me my high profile media career back.

        I don’t care if he’s sorry or resentful. I just care that we shift this cultural understanding so anyone doing this knows they stand to lose everything. If a conscience isn’t enough, we need a deterrent.

    • diana says:

      I agree with you T.fanty. I’m just not sure I’m interested in watching him or supporting him in any way. But for the sake of his kids I do hope he takes care of whatever‘s fucked up in him.

  15. Mannori says:

    No he won’t be able to come back so easily. Specially when his whole comedy schtick was based on the sarcasm on male/female dynamics, his own sex life, and his own experiences as a father of two daughters. That was basically his whole act, which he won’t be able to pull off ever again without looking like the assh*le he is.

  16. MTC says:

    Weinstein is the one I’m least sure about coming be back in some form down the road. Not only because of the jail possibility but because he wasn’t particularly well liked in the industry anyway and think there is a lot of glee he’s gone down in a big way.

    Louis CK I can see, probably sooner since he’s a writer and can do stuff under a pseudonym, then when he thinks the cooling off time is long enough, will do a slow rollout.

  17. Squiggisbig says:

    I think he handled his initial apology much better than Kevin Spacey and the volume of incidents weren’t as much as Weinstein. So there’s a chance. Plus a lot of comedians are just garbage individuals the bar might be lower. Like look at how long people knew about bill Cosby’s actions and the fact that Jerry Seinfeld openly dated a high schooler at the peak of his show or Chris Rock’s offensive jokes about rape. Or the fact that almost every famous male comedian is an unrepentant philanderer.

    My hope is that his temporary banishment is enough for fresh, female comedic voices, like Tiffany Hadish, to get a foothold.

  18. nikzilla says:

    He’s def coming back. Dudes will forgive him easily because he never actually touched a woman….

    • Mannori says:

      well there’s at least ONE victim he pushed into a bathroom and did to her who knows what, and he didn’t even remember who she was, she wasn’t the one he was apologizing to. He got his victims mixed, that’s the extent of his grossness. So there’s the huge possibility that there are more victims of actually violent behavior from his part but probably won’t speak out.

  19. Chaine says:

    Seriously? Are we ALREADY talking ’bout this? Because it was like, literally just last week that we learned about him forcing women to watch him ejaculate. Feel free to bring up the topic of his “comeback” (what an unfortunate word to use in the context of him), oh, I don’t know, let’s say fifteen years down the road and only then if he has in the interim saved children from a burning house, or donated a kidney or something.

    • Sky says:

      His fans have been writing his comeback from the time the New York Times story drop. I’m not talking about his male friends either, but his female ones. They’ve already said that he’s going to do great things for women’s rights and for men acknowledging our struggle across.

      It’s sad and pathetic he has not done one thing to show his remorse or that he truly sorry for what he did. Nor has he proven that he’s changed and they’re already giving him a pass.

      • Dragonlady sakura says:

        While he should be shunned and punished, society is quick to forget and forgive. Sadly, he will wait what he thinks is an appropriate time and slowly start doing comedy tours again. People like Bill O’Reilly still makes money and so will this gross creep.

  20. Va Va Kaboom says:

    It makes me sick but I’m pretty sure Louis C.K. will make a successful comeback eventually. His situation just isn’t as damning as it is for the others being outed.

    Men like Weinstein and Spacey depended on the rumors only being whispered about in gossip sites and among colleagues. People continued to support their work as long as their behavior wasn’t openingly acknowledged. Sexual harrassment and assault don’t sell RomComs and Netflix series.

    Louis’ comedy, on the other hand, has always been steeped in sex and how pathetic/creepy men become for it. His disgusting behavior actually fits in with his shtick and what people expect from him. Was anyone who’s seen his stand-up comedy honestly surprised by these allegations? Disappointed, sure. But surprised…. no way.

    But what really convinces me this won’t destroy his career is that from what I can tell the majority of his fans are remaining silent. The condemnation is coming from others in the industry, media, and people who were never big fans to begin with.

    • Originaltessa says:

      His standup, while always good for a few good chuckles, always left me feeling like he was a very sick and disturbed man with a lot of issues and personal baggage. He was disrespectful to his wife, inappropriate about his children… I was always left feeling very weird about him afterward. None of this is surprising. In fact, I’m a little surprised he hasn’t just straight up mentioned that he likes to whip it out and masturbate in front of women in his standup. I think he thought that because he made it so clear that he was a pathetic loser and desperate for attention that what he was doing was his problem, not theirs. Like, “Look at my penis! I’m so screwed up!” It’s gross, really. He’s really got some problems. And he’s brought a lot of bright young women down with him, and that’s just not ok.

  21. Mannori says:

    What the manager did was outrageous and he should quit managing himself. Bullying and threatening women to stay silent because he was protecting his client is the kind of protection and enablement which is at the base of all sexual crimes. Even his BS excuse that he was protecting CK from what he thought was a cheating scandal, that’s even more infuriating to hear. And yes, dear Burr, Ck committed a sexual crime. Might not be as extreme as rape, but those women have been damaged for life, both psychologically and financially.

  22. Mina says:

    I think he does have a shot at a comeback. His actions (as far as we know) don’t constitute crimes from a legal point of view, and his apology, while lacking in certain ways, at least was straightforward and not victim blaming or trying to divert attention to other things. Plus, unlike Weinstein and Spacey who were well known for not being nice people even beyond their predator actions, Louis CK is loved by many and he’s helped a lot of people get a break in the industry. So I think he might be able to come back, but I don’t think it can be too soon. I’m on the fence with him. I think he deserves to have fallen hard, but I don’t know if he deserves to lose everything forever for it, especially if he actually gets a treatment for his problem. I’d love to hear what his victims have to say. From the NYT article none of them seemed terribly traumatized (not unlike Weinstein’s victims, for example, you could feel their pain through the pages), but I could understand apprehension at being close to this guy as a woman.

    • flan says:

      He doesn’t have a problem in the sense of having a disease.
      He wouldn’t take it out in front of the wife of his boss, but only women he thought that would keep quiet. This was all calculated.

      Same as with bullies, who are suddenly nice to top dog.

  23. Electric Tuba says:

    Too soon to tell. Any thing terrible or good is possible. Speculation at this point only pisses me off and distracts me from things that are actually happening right now.
    Shitty people have to work too. You won’t catch me saying he should go work at McDonalds because I don’t believe working in a minimum wage job is some sort of punishment for the people who HAVE to work jobs like that. Look, life is unfair as fuck but you have to get up everyday ready to fight, change it, make it better, and not become a shitty person yourself.
    Just boycott hollyweird all together. And fight predators who are harassing people in minimum wage jobs and in your office and everywhere us regular people have to be and work.

  24. Reef says:

    CK has been “gone” at most a week and folks already trying to get him back? I wish these people were that quick to listen to the fact he was a pervert with the same speed as they’re using trying to absolve his sins.

  25. KBB says:

    Breaking Bad is where I know Bill Burr from. I couldn’t place him but knew he looked familiar.

  26. Devereaux says:

    Of course they’ll welcome him back! To (a lot) of them, he never should have gone anywhere.

    But here’s the thing about edgy Comedians. A lot of the tension in their comedy lies in the fact that we, the audience, believe they are ‘kidding’. That they would never ‘do’ any of this stuff.

    Imagine Charles Manson joking about hitting women, as Louis CK has done? Would we laugh? Or would we shudder, give the sign of the cross to ward away evil, and change the channel?

    What if Roman Polanski joked about pedophilia, as Louis has done? Or had made ‘I love you Daddy’, an apologia for sex with those who are underage? Would we laugh? Or construct specifically made throwing buckets, full of rotten tomatoes for throwing, and then throw them?

    He may still get up on stage. He may still joke.

    That does not mean he will still be funny.

    Because ‘funny’ is in the eye of the audience. And we’ll all be too busy making it clear we do not consent to seeing his wang, and have no interest in his masturbating, to have any time left over for ‘laughing’.

  27. Ozogirl says:

    He will come back because there are too many men who like him. I don’t believe someone like Harvey can be rehabilitated, but I think someone like CK could. I am willing to give him a chance. We will see.

  28. All_Damn_Day says:

    One of his first specials he talked about humping a friend when young and basically masturbating, and he told it in a “kids do the darndest things” way. In his 2017 special, he kind of goes on a tangent about being homosexual (kind of “if he was, but he’s not”) that was really strange. My husband and î thought he was going to end up announcing he had some terminal disease or something, but maybe he knew stuff was going to come out. In any case, it feels like his compulsion to masturbate in front of people is deeply rooted. Also, Laura Silverman clearly doesn’t want to be viewed as a “victim”, but if someone you have a relationship does something they know you don’t like, and you have to leave the room because they won’t stop, they are, at the least, disrespecting you.

  29. Misty says:

    He did a comedy routine on SNL once about molestation that I detested. It felt like a hard punch to the gut. He’ll never get a free pass in my book and anyone that allows him to get a come back gets a hard pass from me.