Rose McGowan: ‘I was the architect’ of Harvey Weinstein’s downfall

Rose McGowan gets emotional at her book reading for ‘Brave’

Here are some photos of Rose McGowan at Barnes & Noble, doing a discussion/Q&A session for her book, Brave. She did this appearance after Harvey Weinstein called her liar and claimed they had consensual sex back in the 1990s, because I guess Weinstein thinks we’re all idiots. Weinstein’s statement also included a really strange “email” from Ben Affleck, in which Affleck allegedly denied that McGowan had ever told him she was raped. Can we just take a moment and really say this outloud: what a f–king bizarre way to deny something. Anyway, Rose released a statement about Weinstein’s statement:

After initially unleashing a profane tweet about the claims, McGowan released a new statement Wednesday via her representative. “Yesterday’s statement from Mr. Weinstein and his attorney Ben Brafman unequivocally proves a continued attempt to malign, smear, and ‘slut shame’ Rose McGowan,” it said in part. “It is an affront not only to Rose, but to the hundreds of women who have come forward with their stories of harassment, sexual abuse, and rape perpetrated by Mr. Weinstein and those like him. This is a sad, pathetic old-fashioned sexist attempt to undermine obvious truth, and the gaslighting will no longer be tolerated. … Mr. Weinstein’s attempts to discredit Rose is part of his 20-year-long campaign to silence her, clearly proving he IS the monster so many women have described him to be.”

The statement also said McGowan, like “so many other #MeToo’s,” will “continue to push back at ingrained thought and a corrupt power structure.” It added, “She will not be commenting further. The truth can be found in her work: BRAVE the book, it can be found in the rawness of Citizen Rose and in the music, lyrics and emotion of Planet 9. It is time true voices were heard and it is time for the lies to stop.”

[From EW]

There are moments when I think Rose does seem to be emotionally unstable, and like someone who is going to do more harm to herself than anyone else ever could. But then I remember that HOLY SH-T Harvey Weinstein really did go on a 20-year campaign to gaslight her, destroy her career and silence her. He hired Mossad agents to tail her, spy on her and meet with her under false pretenses. That would be enough to make any person go crazy. So Rose has been holding on to the few shreds of truth: Harvey Weinstein raped her, and she was telling her story privately for years. Rose also appeared on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert where this happened:

Rose McGowan dubbed herself as “the architect” behind for ousting Harvey Weinstein‘s decades of alleged sexual misconduct and assault. Wearing a bright orange hoodie sweater, McGowan, 44, discussed her past with the disgraced movie mogul, 65, during Wednesday’s episode of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

“Six months ago before you and other people had the courage and bravery to come out about Harvey Weinstein…,” host Stephen Colbert said before the Citizen Rose star interrupted him. “Mine was a year ago, I was the architect,” she said, adding, “But I didn’t talk … I wanted them to have a voice.” Then, when asked if she was called “crazy” for speaking out about her allegations against Weinstein, McGowan replied: “No. I always knew it was everybody else. No, I see things.”

[From People]

I go back and forth on how to judge the “start” of Harvey Weinstein’s downfall. It’s clear that Ronan Farrow was working for a year on the Weinstein expose, and the New York Times was working separately on the Weinstein story, so which one counts as the “first”? The NYT, because they published first? Or Ronan because he was working on it for longer? Why does it matter, really? As for Rose being the architect… well, okay.

Rose McGowan gets emotional at her book reading for ‘Brave’

Photos courtesy of WENN.

 

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90 Responses to “Rose McGowan: ‘I was the architect’ of Harvey Weinstein’s downfall”

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  1. Lela says:

    I think she needs help, all of this is clearly not easy and having a man try to ruin you for 20 years after raping you is just not something you get over. She needs a therapist and some time to reflect and heal.

  2. winosaurusrex says:

    I’m having a hard time with Rose. As in I appreciate what she has to say, she’s lived through an incredibly trying ordeal, however I don’t think she’s handling it well and she’s well on her way to a breakdown.

    I want nothing more for her to be healthy and happy. I want her to continue to speak out, but the way she’s going? I feel like we’re seeing her start to spiral. I sincerely hope she has or gets a therapist who can help her deal with everything emotionally, because using the public as her therapist is just going to hand the naysayers more (false) ammunition against her and others speaking out.

    • Hh says:

      I’m having such a hard time with her and that soundbite is exactly why. She clearly is hurting and (rightfully) angry. However, when she speaks, many times it’s not simply to tell about exposing harassment in Hollywood, but to remind everyone of her place in it. There was some tweet where her fan said they should have given credit to Rose or else all of this wouldn’t be happening. Rose responded and basically said the girl was correct and that it was due to her bravery. Rubbed me the wrong way.

    • Michelle says:

      I agree. I have mixed feelings about Rose. I appreciate what she went through and I can’t imaginet he toll she took, but her way of dealing with it doesn’t seem healthy and is off-putting, but then I feel bad because there is no such thing as a perfect victim.

    • PPP says:

      She doesn’t owe it to anyone to handle it well. She was raped and professionally gaslit for twenty years. Lots of women would be dead right now. And frankly, the fact that she’s opening herself up so we can see the damage this causes is incredibly brave.

      • Kitten says:

        I agree with you but I think OP’s tone was more one of genuine concern for Rose’s emotional health, not a critique of how she is handling what must be an incredibly traumatic (and perhaps cathartic) time on her life.

      • winosaurusrex says:

        Thanks Kitten. You’re exactly right.

        I would never tell someone to sit down and shut up for speaking out. I’m merely stating that she seems like she’s causing herself more pain by not dealing with her emotional health as well.

        I don’t want her to give her naysayers more ammunition because to me it seems she’s having a very real breakdown very publicly, and I don’t want that for her. I want her to say her piece, I want to give her that platform, but I also very very much want for her (and all victims around the world) to be able to be healthy and deal with their emotions in a private setting where they won’t be picked apart.

        I think the way she’s going about some of this is problematic for other victims, because while she deserves to be hurt, and lash out and speak out, some of her actions maybe be hurting other victims, because they are just as important as Rose. And I want all of them to be able to speak, and heal. They all deserve that.

        Everyone deals with it in their own way, they all have that right. I’m only saying that I hope Rose is healing as well, and if not that she takes a step back to do that. Not because what she’s saying isn’t important, but because it is. But if she has a breakdown, she may not be able to continue to speak out, and I want her to. I want ALL OF THEM TO.

      • PPP says:

        @kitten @winosaurus:

        see, I would agree with you, but then you’re still adjudicating what she said. I don’t think she needs to think about how this is going to affect other victims. It feeds into the pressure we all feel that we need to handle our traumatic incident perfectly lest it reflect poorly on others who’ve experienced similar incidents. How about we let he be selfish and messy and have a nervous breakdown in public if she wants to. You might not want it for her, but I have a growing suspicion that she wants that right. In her documentary at one point she’s breaking down about not being allowed to be a victim. Part of that is letting her demonstrate to the public how much this stuff has fucked her up. Part of it isn’t putting the good standing of every other rape victim on her plate of responsibility.

      • winosaurusrex says:

        I didn’t say she needed to think about them. I said later on she may think about them. But I AM thinking about them, and I think her responses are doing them and her entire cause a disservice.

        I’ve repeatedly said she is right to her feelings, her hurt and her lashing out. But that I think she also needs a therapist to help her work through this. I’m afraid that later on she’s going to hurt even more because she realizes what she’s done to others in her pain. That isn’t saying she should change her the way she deals with it, not if she doesn’t choose too.

        She’s allowed to be the victim she chooses. But that’s doesn’t stop me from thinking she should get help, that it will do her and everyone else a world of good. It doesn’t stop me from wanting better for her and the others. I never once said she should stop. Hell I want her to keep going, but I want her to be healthy more. And that is my right.

      • PPP says:

        @winosaurus:

        This: “But I AM thinking about them, and I think her responses are doing them and her entire cause a disservice.”

        undermines this: “I’ve repeatedly said she is right to her feelings, her hurt and her lashing out.”

        You can’t say person X has a right to do Y but also that doing Y is doing a disservice to other people who have experienced what X has, and that it’s ultimately unproductive. I mean, you can, but there’s a significant tension here. You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too.

        Personally I don’t think she’s doing a disservice to anyone. Literally hundreds of women have come out since this started and 99% of them have been poised, and articulate, and graceful, and everything they are “supposed to be”. If one person acting like Rose McGowan does ruins it for those thousands of women, something is wrong with society, not Rose McGowan. But I think it’s actually really good at society to see someone who is as angry as she wants to be, reacting in ways that make people uncomfortable. I think it’s helpful for victims to not feel the pressure that they have to react to their trauma in a way that doesn’t endanger a shitty society’s ability to believe thousands of perfect victims.

      • winosaurusrex says:

        I guess this is where we disagree. Because (as I’m taking it) you’re telling me that I can’t support Rose, want better for her, wish she would get some help, and feel for all the other victims and how this might be affecting them.

        But I can. I support her right to say what she wants and how she wants. But I think she should get some help before she has a full breakdown-because I don’t want that for her.

        I think that later on she may see how her words hurt other victims and that could cause her some additional guilt and trauma, so I want her to process privately, because her actions may her hurt later.

        Maybe I am trying to have my cake and eat it too. I don’t see it that way. I see it as seeing someone who is in a lot of pain and wanting her to get better, and not cause others pain at the same time.

    • lucy2 says:

      I agree – I think her reaction is completely understandable, but for her own sake, I hope she is getting therapy or something to help her with all this. I get that she’s finally being believed and has so much anger (rightfully so) but she needs to stay healthy for the road ahead.

    • Jayna says:

      I agree. I found her full interview with Stephen Colbert unsettling. She was rambling all over the place nonsensically. I felt she was high or drunk, but wasn’t sure. She seemed thick-tongued is why I thought that. Stephen Colbert handled the interview beautifully, though, so that it didn’t go completely off way off the rails. But it was concerning.

  3. JRenee says:

    That POS tried to destroy her. Yes she needs therapy. I can’t imagine having one of those things done to me, let alone all of the things one POS did to her for YEARS!

    • Anna says:

      What Harvey did to her is horrifying and awful.
      But just because we support all his accusers coming out it doesn’t mean we have to be their fan. I really want to love Rose, but her Twitter has always been pretty problematic and she’s said some pretty offensive things before.
      I hope she gets some hardcore therapy soon cause it seems like she’s about to have abreakdown

  4. Mela says:

    I think she found her calling and crusade in life.

    Rose is ANGRY. And fearless.

    Who wouldnt be? Hopefully the worst is behind her, she is on the path to healing and i think of all this is part of her journey to heal.

  5. Lucy says:

    Lately I don’t really like looking at pictures of her because…she looks like she’s had her life sucked away from her (wording?). It’s nothing about her appearance, I can see her in her eyes. And what I say to myself about that is, no sh*t, Sherlock. I, too, feel like she needs to get some help if she hasn’t already, ASAP.

  6. savu says:

    Calling yourself the “architect” feels like it will be co-opted by the MRA and opposition who believes women would just make this stuff up. “Look, she says she orchestrated the whole thing!”

    Rose needs help, and I hope she gets it. She is brave and strong and has every reason to be hurt, but at some point you have to start to heal. That doesn’t mean it all goes away, but it feels like she has some work to do to live happily and healthily.

    • PPP says:

      Given what’s happened to her, here are her rights:

      She has a right to seek help on her own time. And if it’s never, that’s her right.

      She has a right to be as angry as she wants to be, and sometimes her anger is going to hit some outside targets because it is a dragon that hasn’t been allowed to breath for two decades. If she’s lashing out, it’s because she her anger wasn’t heard, was suppressed and legally bound, and so now that it’s finally allowed to come out, of course it’s just going all over the place.

      She has a right not to worry about whether she comes across as stable, or cogent, or whatever, because she has been treated like she is crazy for two decades and you cannot expect anyone but a superhuman to emerge from that with poise, grace, and charm.

  7. Kate says:

    An Italian model went to the police about Harvey in 2015 if I remember correctly.
    Rose went through hell, I know that but she was not the only one. Yet she seems hellbent on disparaging other women who came forward as not being as brave as her. She dissed the women in black at the GG, even though some of them like Ashley Judd, Salma Hayek and Angelina Jolie had been victims of Harvey. And now …this. It makes me a bit uneasy.

    • PPP says:

      Notice that the people she seems to get angry at seemed to have managed their rape and clung onto successful careers. Notice they often have close relationships with the people we most suspect were complicit, such as Affleck and Damon (sorry not sorry). I think, ON HERE, on Celebitchy, a commenter was talking about how incredibly angry she was at other women who had been raped by the man who raped her, for not coming forward, leaving her to shoulder the entire burden of coming forward.

      Also, she’s been through two decades of pure hell. I am not about to hold her to unrealistically high standards.

      • Censored says:

        I feel for Rose and what she has endured for the last 20 years and can only imagine how it must feel to get some slight vindication after all this time

        That being said the notion Rose was a lone voice in the wilderness publicly shaming and naming Harvey Weinstein for the past 20 years is simply not true . Whilst it may have been an open secret or speculated by some in the industry Rose never named Harvey to the public at large as her rapist. Yes, she talked about the rape , hinted at to who it might be , but the closest she ever came till recently was less than two years ago with a tweet in Oct 2016 saying that her ex sold her movie to her rapist (Mirimax bought the film so people finally figured it out )

        Lord knows I empathize with her right to be angry and go scorched earth , I can do that and still find it disconcerting the way she seems to be making this all about her , and self righteously dragging everybody as less virtuous and more complicit than she is

        We can support Rose as a victim and still point out things about her that are problematic , the two are not mutually exclusive

      • PPP says:

        @Censored- it’s not about whether Rose’s statements are accurate or whether those she’s lashed out against definitely deserve her anger or whether her narrative is cogent. That’s really not the point. The point is this woman is clinging to fucking sanity and it’s just wrong to hold her to the same standards of someone who didn’t go through pure hell for 20 years. Is she messy? Is she being irrational? Any way you could describe her behavior is so laden with gendered judgement and also the idea that SHE has gone off course somehow because of her crazy brain. She was led off course and told the trees around her weren’t trees for twenty years. What do you expect? Why do you even feel the need to adjudicate what she’s said? The kind of empathy you need right now is the kind that recognizes that she’s going to fuck up left right and center coming out of what she has.

      • Censored says:

        @ppp
        Where exactly did I say or even imply that Rose has gone off course because of her crazy brain ???..I mean seriously
        Saying that Rose has every right to be enraged , and acknowledging some of how she expresses this rage may be harmful not only to others but to her self in the long run or that she may need some help in managing this pain is adjudication ? (Also getting help does not make one crazy)

        Rose wants people who may have known or suspected something to be held more accountable than she herself who knew first hand of Harvey’s criminal behavior and never named him publicly for years . What If any of the women that were subsequently assaulted by Harvey lashed out at her for not calling out his name sooner so that their assault could have been avoided would that be OK with you ?

        I guess so as apparently , Rose is a victim and as such however she processes her trauma , whatever double standards she espouses and whomever else’s pain she lessens or hurt must never be mentioned
        People are even on here excusing her insensitive remarks about working with a convicted CHILD molester whilst she is self righteously attacking people with #he/she knew #complicit etc

        Several of the posters here myself included are survivors of sexual assault and are thus even more in tune and empathetic to Roses pain , I am glad that she is being vindicated and that her voice is finally being heard but saying that pain does not give her the right to own a movement or lash out at everyone willy nilly makes you an adjudicator ?
        I guess only some people are allowed to “adjudicate”all they want
        Peace out

      • KBB says:

        @censored That’s part of my issue as well. I understand that she is a victim, and she can express herself however she feels, but when she is inflicting harm on others there has to be a limit. Otherwise we’re just infantilizing her. She should be held accountable for the things she says because she is an adult. It isn’t okay for her to accuse people she doesn’t know of being complicit or aware that Harvey was raping people unless she has explicit knowledge of that.

        She accused Meryl of “knowing” numerous times and didn’t let up until Meryl publicly acknowledged her. Then Rose backed off completely. So did she really think Meryl knew or was she just throwing around accusations until she was acknowledged?

        She has a megaphone that most victims don’t have. She has a responsibility to use it wisely, whether she or her supporters think that’s fair or not. She has chosen to be front and center with her show and book, so yes, that comes with a responsibility.

  8. Anilehcim says:

    Sometimes I think she seems unhinged, but ultimately I think that she’s just behaving like a person who was silenced and suffering for years, who has finally found her voice and feels empowered and emboldened. She’s going to seem wacky, she may say dumb things, but it’s got to feel incredible to be able to just spew and let it all out–which is exactly what she’s doing.

  9. Incredulous says:

    She’s had a tough life, even before Weinstein. Frankly, she’s pretty together, all in all.

  10. Natalia says:

    I had a hard time listening to her interview with Stephen Colbert. It was very awkward. In my opinion she didn’t do much to help herself. A shame because I believe her and I support her but it was very difficult to watch that interview in fact I stopped listening except out of the corner of my ear. It seemed like Stephen Colbert was happy to in the interview. I think he supports her but I think he was hoping that the interview would go better.

  11. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    This is not the kind of movement for hierarchy or chain of command as it can become yet another obstacle women have to overcome regarding each other and public optics. She clearly needs help as anyone would, and I hope her healing moves forward.

  12. Christina says:

    She is the architect of this. She is the one who kept beating the drum in Hollywood because she was victimized. The other victims were so traumatized or so intimidated by what he could and did do that they whispered or stayed silent or changed careers. She doggedly kept fighting back instead of changing careers. She is clearly very hurt and needs therapy, but standing up to something like this CAN kill you. My ex stalks me, almost killed our child, and has worked to ruin my career and my life for the past 10 years, in court, following my daughter and me, stalking us online by pretending to be other people. I’ve been in therapy for 9 years. Professionals have told me that women in Rose’s situation, and mine, end up addicted or dead frequently. Give Rose her propers.

    • Turtle says:

      I’m sorry that happened to you. People can be sympathetic but don’t quite understand how unnerving it can be to live with something like that. It’s like living with an unexploded bomb.

      Rose was on the RuPaul podcast last spring and talked about some of these projects then and how she’d been working on them for awhile. (RuPaul is very enthusiastic, but not a great interviewer and Rose really pushed him on some assumptions.) And she was interviewed by Ronan Farrow, one of the first women, I believe, before she withdrew her permission.

      So she may have been the architect or one of the first to get the ball rolling, who knows. It doesn’t really matter. I see it as someone who was victimized who is reclaiming some agency for herself.

    • PPP says:

      Absolutely, absolutely. You just cannot judge the woman unless you’ve been through something like it, and few people have been through an extended and fucking professional gas lighting campaign. I have been gaslit before over something minor and it honestly sent me to therapy because I thought I was crazy and remembering things wrong. This woman has not been told she isn’t living in reality for 20 years, and I remember her being vocal about her rape years and years ago. Another commenter put it well– she’s not abnormal. Her reaction is what you might expect from what she went through. Actually, she must be really fucking strong to be able to go out in public and fight for her truth, even if she isn’t poised or narratively cogent.

      And if anyone brings up the Victor Salva stuff, if ever I could understand a woman ignoring uncomfortable truths about a friend, it’s here. This lady was trained to overlook this kind of thing and punished for not doing so in her case, not just in Hollywood, but probably the cult she was raised in, which has been dogged by child abuse rumors for years.

    • magnoliarose says:

      I am sorry for your horrible experience. That sounds like a living nightmare.

      Rose IS the architect because she was the first one to use the word rape but didn’t name names though Gawker named him and some blinds did several years ago. Everyone knew he was awful but she was the first one to expose how awful he was and it gave the other rape victims some backup to speak out.

      She deserves the credit but it isn’t the kind of credit she probably feels good about. I am sure she would rather go back to a time before he raped and smeared her for 20 years. Rose has had substance abuse problems and mental health problems over the years. She has lived through a lot and survived her self-destructive behavior but not without significant damage.

  13. Hazel says:

    She’s mad as hell and not going to take it any more. Go, Rose.

  14. littlemissnaughty says:

    I really hate it when people (here as well) call her unstable etc. Listen, the woman has BEEN THROUGH SH*T. She can claim all the praise she wants if you ask me. I have no idea what her life must’ve been like for TWO DECADES. The man had former spies trailing her for god’s sake. I can’t even begin to fathom any of this.

    I watched her interview on The View and when you watch her body language, I mean crap. This is a woman who is fighting like hell to keep it together and sometimes barely manages. And I know it comes off as off-putting and a little weird but I recognize it because this is what I do when I have to talk about f*cking feelings. I hate it. I get all weird and flippant.

    • Turtle says:

      Yeah. We’re taught to apologize and keep it in line or just not say anything. No wonder people are unsettled by her.

    • Slowsnow says:

      Exactly. At this point, how is it going to help to take a statement and split hairs? Of course the interview was awkward. She was robbed of her integrity her life and her career and treated by Harvey as if she was the one at fault, followed, bullied and made an outcast. I am glad it was awkward for people to see what this kind of action does to someone. She is indeed brave to not hide her “awkwardness” and expose her battles and her issues. It’s amazing to me that she is trying to be the architect of her life (which is what I feel she deeply means) instead of giving in and being a victim. All those women mentioned (Paltrow, Jolie, etc) had it easy compared to her, they have their lives and their careers and thank the gods. But it’s not comparable. So, yeah, peace to you Rose.

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        Word. It’s not her job to make us feel comfortable. And if his other victims want to dispute her claims that she was the first, the architect, I’ll listen to them. I’m not okay with the judgment of her demeanor. I mean people have got to be kidding with this.

    • Juls says:

      I posted a long comment defending her. I didn’t curse or threaten anybody or say anything nasty about anybody, but my comment didn’t make it past moderator. I guess dissent isn’t tolerated here. I’ll show myself out.

    • jwoolman says:

      She can be both unstable and a legitimate victim trying to fight back.

      Weinstein put her under considerable pressure to shut her up, but that may not be the real cause of her behavior although such stress could exacerbate it. I wonder if she had been unstable before it happened. That might explain some of her distorted memories. Her own story about why she is convinced that Affleck “knew” does not make sense, for instance. Her words and his words, as she herself reports them, do not signal that he knew she had been raped. He knew she was upset, but obviously thought it was about the obnoxious behavior that Gwyneth Paltrow had told him about (but had also told him not to do anything about, that it wasn’t any big deal). The words Rose reports just suggest he had spoken to Weinstein about Gwyneth and was angry that the guy was still pulling such stuff. They do not indicate that he knew Rose had been raped.

      Her current accusations of others, claiming everybody just had to know about it, is not the normal reaction of a victim finding her voice. Who else have you heard talking like this who has spoken up about their experiences with Weinstein, Cosby, or others? When others say they had spoken to friends or family or colleagues about it, their stories check out with no problem. But Rose seems to see the whole world in a different way, where she is the lone fighter in the battle and everyone else is the enemy. That’s why she considers herself the architect when actually she’s one of many people building the house.

      Rose has acted inconsistently herself on this matter for years, and maybe she wasn’t listened to because people responded to the instability rather than the fluctuating but true message. I’ve wondered the same thing about Corey Feldman. His message may be true, but it’s been easy for people to dismiss him because his natural demeanor doesn’t inspire trust in the way he presents it. When the same message comes from people who appear more reliable, then things are more likely to get moving. How people perceive the reliability of the messenger is crucial in such matters, and people who behave like Rose in ordinary life inspire a “who knows if it happened” reaction, even on much less serious matters.

      • magnoliarose says:

        There is no normal reaction to victimization. When someone abnormal happens then, the response should be expected to be individual and abnormal.

        I believe her story about Affleck, and it makes perfect sense to me. The only reason it is questioned is that HARVEY put out this statement gaslighting yet again and smearing her word. He continues and has been harassing daily even now. He hasn’t stopped his foul behavior. He is trying to push her over the cliff and spread the idea that she is insane. He has always had people run around to blogs to comment, his wife does it too, to discredit people and lead the comments down a particular road.

        There is no consistency or clean way to process something like this.

      • magnoliarose says:

        “someone”=something.
        I hate my iPad.

      • PPP says:

        @magnoliarose, thank you, I don’t have the energy to respond to this fool.

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        How many times do we have to stress that there is no perfect victim? How is her consistency even debated? I don’t get this, these are not the issues here. She is being called “unstable” on this thread. Do you know what that must do to her? You know who’s been gaslighting her with most likely that exact word for 20 years??? Unstable my butt. It’s nothing but a faux concern buzzword used to discredit women. You may mean well but I would rather eat glass than call someone like her unstable or “in need of therapy”. People may think it’s just a helpful suggestion but on the receiving end it must be a slap in the face. It’s dismissive, whether you like it or not. Problematic, unstable, don’t like her demeanor, weird, needs therapy. Just imagine what that must do to her, reading it. I’m not saying everyone here wants to take her down. Again, people may mean well. But this is not the way to go.

      • Otaku Fairy says:

        “Her current accusations of others, claiming everybody just had to know about it, is not the normal reaction of a victim finding her voice.
        But she’s gotten so used to being lied to and on for the past 20 years or so that it’s kind of understandable why she might be mistrustful of other people in this situation.

    • magnoliarose says:

      @littlemiss
      What do you mean about talking about feelings? In general or about something in particular?

      I carried rage around for years from being bullied, and I directed in the wrong places. It became like a snowball that grew, and I lashed out whenever I felt cornered and vulnerable. But my lashing wasn’t unhinged looking or like a tantrum; it was worse because it would take the target time to figure out I was pissed off at them. I wasn’t very nice to my family sometimes. I wasn’t very nice to boyfriends sometimes. I was vicious in arguments because I would search for the jugular and then have no mercy at ripping the person to shreds. And feel nothing until later, and then the guilt would set in, and I would be frustrated with myself.
      This is on a MUCH smaller scale, but it did have a negative impact on my life and my marriage.
      Festering anger has to be dealt with sooner or later. A triggering statement from my husband would get my vicious tongue set to inflict pain and accusations that he was trying to control me and he was (fill in the blank). How he resisted picking me up and tossing me out of the window I will never know.
      Like I said much smaller scale and it wasn’t the driving force of my life and it wasn’t all consuming but I had to work through it to be truly happy. I have also been lucky to have a family that loves me and wonderful supportive friends.

      Rose’s life is not full of unconditional love from family and friends and her problems are thousands and millions times worse than anything I can imagine. She kept inflicting more trauma on herself with the choices she made. I don’t know how she could be “normal” with all that.

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        Feelings in general. I’m not good at expressing myself. If I have to, I come off super cold because even talking about them I refuse to show them. …. It’s super healthy. I lose my sh*t when people start crying during these conversations as well. I want to yell at them to keep it together. Relationships are … hard. I don’t carry rage, I just learned early on to keep your sh*t locked down, that way people don’t know where to hit. I mean if anyone is in need of therapy, it’s probably me. I admire Rose and all these women for being able to go out there and fight. I can’t even say “I’m sad.”

        So when people judge them for how they do it, I get angry.

  15. MissAmanda says:

    She is reminding me a bit of Jim Carrey. And this is my own opinion, but I think both of them are awake. They are awake in a way the rest of us cannot understand, so they sound and look unhinged.

  16. Purplehazeforever says:

    She’s angry but she’s also arrogant and that’s what comes across offensive to many. Victims shouldn’t be arrogant is how society views us. I don’t care what others think. I do care about Rose’s mental health, though. She’s not seeing a therapist. Every time I see her and/ or a response to Weinstein it’s almost triggers me so she has to be going through hell. And I went through two rounds of therapy…one in my twenties and one in thirties. It’s time for another. Rape destroys who you were before…survivors often describe a before and after person…I have one. I’d love to go back to the silly, naive 19 year old girl I was not the this jaded, hardened 46 year old cynic I am today. I can’t because of that act that took that away from me. Rose clings to that anger. I had to learn to let it go. I went back to the time to hug that young woman to tell her it was okay. Sometimes therapy doesn’t work the first time around, you have to keep going until you meet the right one.

    • Slowsnow says:

      My daughter was raped at 16. There is clearly a before and after. It’s not the same as with you because she just changed and also matured because she became an adult in the meantime. And I sometimes wonder what she would have been had it not happened to her. However, she is evolving into a lovely person who of course has trust issues and so forth.
      My point is: don’t be so hard on yourself please. Hang in there. All my love to you.

    • magnoliarose says:

      Your comment is heartbreaking. Hugs if you want them.

      This has always been the real crime of rape in my view. The robbery of a person’s sense of self and changing someone against their will in a brutal violation. I saw it happen before my eyes to someone and it is stark.
      She does need help, but in a way, I think it is appropriate to see what it looks like when someone is victimized by the system and by men in power. Not everyone is comfortable to watch or hear or perfect. It isn’t tidy.
      Women are taught to be a good girl and make everyone else comfortable. Don’t make waves and don’t be messy. The public wants women’s truths only in tidy, clean packages and only in small digestible doses.

      • Slowsnow says:

        @magnoliarose
        Your last paragraph is so true. When something like this happens to you your whole balance has to be redefined and the road to that is not a clear, pretty line. It’s hard to deal with for those around us and especially for the survivor who feels that the ground has suddenly disappeared and yet everyone else is walking.

  17. KBB says:

    I’m probably going to get slammed for this, but from my perspective, she seems to want everyone to know that she was hurt more than any of his other victims or something. That she was the most harmed, that she was the bravest, that she deserves the credit for taking him down. She disparaged the other women for wearing black, she points the finger at everyone, and she hashtags everything #rosearmy. Her “fight” is tinged with all of this narcissism and misguided anger at random people. Obviously there are no perfect victims, but I think she needs to work through some stuff in therapy.

    • Kaiser says:

      No, I agree with you – I want good things for Rose, I want her to be healthy and safe and successful, but she’s creating a hierarchy of victimhood and placing herself as “the most” victimized.

      • Christina says:

        Kaiser, she is still deep in the fight, and he is still discrediting her. She needs to work with a therapist, and that should be emphasized instead of a hierarchy of victimhood. Being stalked and having someone attempt to destroy your entire life is like an ongoing, continuous rape of one’s mind. She has endured years of people not believing her and of being gaslighted. She is going to come off as crazy. Mysogyny has forced women to stay silent about their anger. She doesn’t have a reason to hide how she feels anymore. She already lost everything. She is now on scorched earth. You are wonderful, but I wish we could accept that there are many more women like her than we realize. One trauma is enough to destroy many people. What is happening to her is designed to make her look mentally ill, and I don’t think that narrative should be pushed. She isn’t mentally ill: she is having an appropriate response to physical and psychological torture.

      • KBB says:

        I know you were responding to Kaiser, Christina, but I do want to say if it came off like I was calling her mentally ill that is not at all what I intended. When I say she needs to work through some stuff in therapy, I just mean that a professional can help guide her in the healthiest ways to deal with trauma so that she isn’t causing herself more undue harm unintentionally. I spent years in therapy for anxiety and depression, so I’d never suggest it in a disparaging way. It’s an incredible resource for those who have access.

      • Shappalled says:

        ‘she’s creating a hierarchy of victimhood and placing herself as “the most” victimized’

        I agree.

    • Slowsnow says:

      But it doesn’t matter does it? It’s only her opinion and her battle which, ultimately, whatever she may say, she is undergoing in order to remain sane. I guess she needs compassion.

    • Christina says:

      Thanks, KBB. I didn’t take it that way. Discussing this is a very good thing. IMHO, she IS suffering more than the others. So much was taken, and she still tried to work, and she stayed in Hollywood. The ones who continued to work tiptoed around him to save their careers, and who can blame them? The ones who left Hollywood chose to heal, which was their right. She strikes me as someone who really didn’t have many choices, like me. When someone views you as property and feels entitled to crawl into every aspect of your life without your consent, even after you have walked away deafeated, that takes a toll that causes such stress people abandon you for their own mental health. It’s too much for people around her. That tells me that Rose McGowan is one strong lady. She has changed the game for all of us, and I want to thank her and acknowledge her sacrifice. The only reason I kept fighting was for my daughter, or I would have committed suicide. I actually tried once and decided that killing myself would make it acceptable to my daughter, so I didn’t do it. Now we have a restraining order, but that’s just a piece of paper. It doesn’t stop him.

  18. sarah6 says:

    I believe Rose was the first person Ronan talked to. I heard him say it in her new documentary. He said she encouraged him to not give up the article after being intimidated. She was the first in that sense. She risked being sued. It is okay to give her props for that. I do wish she was more clear in her interviews. Yet somehow I understand what she was saying on Colbert because I watched her 2 hour documentary and got used to her way of speaking.

  19. Mary says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong. But this woman’s entire life has kinda been messed up right? Wasn’t she raised in a cult where a lot of abuse happened? And then she grows up to be part of hollywood, which is the biggest shit show on the planet. This woman really never had a chance at a normal life. That said, she really needs help.

    • Brian says:

      Well, she certainly couldn’t help what her upbringing was or her sexual assault, but working in Hollywood is 1. a choice and 2. a privilege. I mean she’s done pretty darn well for herself in her profession regardless of any conspiracy to take her down (a perusal of her imdb profile shows she’s work consistently over her career).

  20. Christina says:

    Purplehazeforever: thank you.

  21. Christina says:

    Littlemissnaughty: thank you, sister. You get it.

  22. HelloSunshine says:

    Idk if we should be crediting anyone as the architect of this.. I get needing to credit people but it feels competitive? Idk, it’s rubbing me the wrong way for some reason.
    I really hope Rose is getting help, she’s been through hell and deserves whatever help she needs to to heal. For some reason, I get the impression she isn’t getting help and sometimes she says things that rub me the wrong way but I’m trying to balance remembering how much stuff she’s been through and being sympathetic and also acknowledging that I think there are faults in some of her comments.

  23. JA says:

    Not a fan of rose as the things she does and says are pretty problematic. That said she’s a victim and she needs help as it seems like she is really close to going over the edge. Hope she gets it

  24. Christina says:

    Turtle, thank you. Thank you for understanding Rose, and by extension, many women like her and me.

  25. Christina says:

    Purple haze forever, wishing you happiness and peace. These experiences are so hard, and you deserve to feel better. This DOES permanently change you. I’ve lost people who didn’t believe me, or who were tired that I was always freaked out because he would report my movements around town to me, and would follow us on the freeway. Rape and stalking take away your autonomy, and people don’t always understand. Actually, most folks don’t get it.

    • KBB says:

      Thank you for sharing your story Christina. You make very good points about the psychological anguish that persists after the fact. Harvey targeted Rose in a way that most of his other victims may not have experienced. I do still have trouble with her making accusations about people she doesn’t know, but you’re right that she has gone through something most of us could never understand. Take care of yourself and I hope you don’t ever feel personally attacked by those of us who may not completely understand Rose’s reactions. You are incredibly brave and very strong.

  26. Michelle says:

    She’s probably still fighting, knowing he won’t officially be charged with rape. She can only start to heal, when she sees his true comeuppance with being charged & sentenced for being a rapist. Even now he’s still trying to plead innocence & discredit rose & the other victims. She needs closure before any real healing can begin.

    • jwoolman says:

      Weinstein’s ability to discredit anybody vanished quite a while ago. I doubt very much that he will ever regain any of what he lost. It may not be as satisfying to his victims as seeing him die in prison, but justice is already being served. Weinstein may not realize it yet.

  27. PPP says:

    “There are moments when I think Rose does seem to be emotionally unstable, and like someone who is going to do more harm to herself than anyone else ever could. But then I remember that HOLY SH-T Harvey Weinstein really did go on a 20-year campaign to gaslight her, destroy her career and silence her. He hired Mossad agents to tail her, spy on her and meet with her under false pretenses. That would be enough to make any person go crazy.”

    This is why I can’t hold anything against her. I just can’t, not even the Victor Salva stuff. This is a woman clinging to her truth, and yeah she’s self-centered and arrogant and whatever– what do you expect? Honestly.Being hyper-focused on yourself is a symptom of depression and PTSD. I have been gaslit before and you just cannot understand how crazy-making it is until you’ve been through it, and it was nothing like what Rose went through, nothing. And the thing is, when people finally believe you 20 years later, AFTER your career is ruined, I bet it can make you even angrier and make it even harder to hold on. It’s kind of like when you’re married to a neglectful husband for 20 years who denies he’s neglectful and when you finally file the divorce papers and he starts treating you like a human– can you forgive him, is it a relief, or does it actually make you a hundred times angrier than you were before because finally the fact that you were treated like trash, the fact that you didn’t need to be, has been confirmed. But again, what Rose went through is MUCH more extreme than that. AND she was raised in that freaky cult with tons of rumors about sex abuse following her around.

    I just hope she can ride this anger to a better place is all.

  28. Milavanilla says:

    “Righteous(adj): righteous feelings are caused by a belief that you are right to feel angry, for example because of something bad or wrong.” (Macmillan Dictionary)

    #Iamwithher

  29. deets says:

    I dislike the narrative of hysterical survivor.
    Her emotions are on show because she’s not a psychopath and she’s been hurt and silenced and the entire world did not believe her and supported her abuser. She had literal special agents sicced on her like spy movie.

    She’s finally feeling in control of her narrative, and while I don’t agree with everything she says, she’s allowed to be imperfect in her healing. And this is reclaiming her narrative.

  30. Shasha says:

    One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that abusers and rapists often target women who are mentally ill, mentally unstable, or substance users in the first place, because it’s MUCH easier to discredit or gaslight them. Already people think they are crazy, already they act out with cuckoo behaviors and statements, already they have alienated people, already others don’t like them, and already others judge or look down upon them. So, they can get away with MUCH more abuse towards these women and brush it off as “she’s just a crazy B” and everyone around agrees with it. This is also why many predators go into the mental health field as technicians, because it’s easy for them to abuse patient after patient, and write it off as, she’s just crazy and a liar.

    So, I don’t know if Rose is mentally stable or not. But even if she’s not mentally stable, then I believe EVEN MORE all the things that she says about her sexual abuse, just from my life observations of seeing mentally unstable women be targeted for sexual abuse.

    I also don’t care at all if she comes off as arrogant, egotistical, aggressive, or whatever unflattering thing that women aren’t supposed to be. You go ahead Rose, you call yourself the architect, call yourself whatever term you think you deserve, ALL THESE MEN ARE DOING IT!

    • KBB says:

      Your first point is exactly what I was thinking when I heard he raped Paz De La Huerta. There is also a clip I think from Rose’s show where Asia is talking about how predators like Harvey see a vulnerability or crack in the people they target, often people that have been abused in the past.

  31. Jennifer says:

    I fully support her for coming out and saying what happened to her, so don’t hate me for my following comments. I saw her interview on Trevor Noah and she seriously needs some help. Maybe she is getting it already? But she did not seem sane to me. I also felt she was taking herself way too seriously.