This past weekend was different than other weekends following a national tragedy. Last week there was yet another school shooting, this time at Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida. 17 people died, adults and children. There were prayer vigils planned alongside funerals for the dead. There was the sense, on cable news and by pundits around the country, that this was just another sad chapter in America’s horrific gun violence epidemic, and that nothing would change. But then an odd thing happened: the children spoke. The kids of Stoneman Douglas started telling their stories, and telling the adults that the status quo is no longer acceptable. It was not about thoughts and prayers anymore – they were no longer enough. These children are prepared to tell their stories and to demand action. They are planning school walkouts and marches. They are organizing on social media. They are angry and they have every reason to be.
The anger of American children, and the fact that those same children are now leading the way to make changes is a great thing. The Fox News people – who are as bought-and-paid for by the NRA as they are the right arm of the Trump Administration – don’t even know what to do or say about these kids. Thankfully, the New York Times’ columnist David Brooks knows what to say to these kids: shut up, be polite, not now, and children need to treat gun-toting Trump voters like gentle, trigger-happy babies.
If you want to stop school shootings, it’s not enough just to vent and march. It’s necessary to let people from Red America lead the way, and to show respect to gun owners at all points https://t.co/BBrlNIlzY3
— NYT Opinion (@nytopinion) February 20, 2018
I think we should start collecting all of the New York Times’ f-ckups into a book called Bad Takes: The Stupidest Moments of the NYT. Here are some chapter titles:
The FBI wasn’t investigating Trump-Russia in 2016.
Children who just witnessed their schoolmates being gunned down should remember to always be polite to old, gun-toting Republicans.
BUT HER EMAILS.
Nazis are totally regular people who deserve to be normalized like a quaint trend.
Women over 30 shouldn’t wear yoga pants because those women are gross and fat.
The New York Times should have offered Emma Gonzalez an op-ed column. But it’s really too late.
"They say that tougher gun laws do not decrease gun violence. We call BS!" Florida high school shooting survivor Emma Gonzalez calls on President Trump and lawmakers to tighten gun restrictions in impassioned speech at an anti-gun rally in Fort Lauderdale https://t.co/DgnqrrVs9x
— CNN (@CNN) February 17, 2018
Emma Gonzalez’s instantly historic speech got the nation to stop and listen about gun reform. Now she’s taking her message to Washington D.C. in the hope of making Parkland America’s last mass shooting. pic.twitter.com/7p069Wy7dA
— NowThis (@nowthisnews) February 18, 2018
Photos courtesy of Getty.
The fuck?
You have to read the oped with an open mind. He is saying that real change won’t come from just marching and yelling (and he never says to shut up). The author posits that real change will have to come from gun owners themselves, and demonising them and lumping them all into a ‘crazy murderers’ category won’t effect change. It’s like saying that in order for Time’s Up to work, women need the men on side. In order for real gun reform to work, we need the gun owners on side – and making them all out to be the enemy isn’t the way to accomplish anything.
“You have to read the oped with an open mind.”
I find insulting that you jumped to the conclusion that I didn’t.
Also insulting the way you tried to patronize me by “explaining” what the author meant — and using a ridiculous analogy on top of that.
Again: What. The. Fuckity. Fuck?
His argument is actually wrong and so are you for trying to defend what he is inaccurately talking about. He is making up an extreme argument and deflecting from the real issue that we are trying to have an conversation about. Most gun owners actually believe in common sense gun laws just like Dems and independents do.
Why should we, the majority, have to cater to the small minority of Americans who are obsessed with guns? Only one third of Americans own a gun and only 3% of adults own half of America’s guns. As of 2014, 55% of Americans favored stricter gun control laws. Why should the gun rights of the minority of the population, American gun owners, be prioritized over the majority of us who don’t own a gun, but simply want our children to feel safe in a classroom?
Again, this has NOTHING to do with the Second Amendment and it is so disingenuous for the Right to frame it that way. This is a public health issue. Most of us are pushing for sensible gun control laws. I mean FFS we wouldn’t do this with say, smoking, would we? We banned it in public places to protect those of us who shouldn’t be forced to consume second hand smoke because a smoker needs their fix. Why is it more acceptable for some people to conceal or open-carry a gun in a shared public space than for someone to light up a cigarette in a public space?
Change is not brought about through respectful deference.
I am tired of the burden placed on us as women, as victims of gun violence, as receivers of racism, to respect and educate and honor and tread carefully. It’s how abusers talk.
Brooks is a hack.
@Kitten This is triumph of the NRA. They have made gun ownership a right as inalienable as free speech. The right views gun rights in much the same way the left views pay equity and marriage equality. It was a long, difficult fight to get those rights and no one is taking them away.
I admire these kids so much because they are taking on the toughest issue in America.
Oh cmon, I live in Jacksonville FL. No matter how you articulate your argument, gun owners are not going to agree to tighter regulations. Fu ck them!
@snowflake From my childhood bedroom window I could see the Remington Arms gun factory. The cruelty I have seen on FB from former classmates when it comes to mass shootings is astounding. There really is no talking to a certain segment. Their guns are more important to them than actual lives.
@Snowflake — I am a gun owner and I am *fully* supportive of gun control laws (and have never given even a penny to the NRA). It simply isn’t true that gun owners don’t want laws to change. I would happily give up my own handgun if that was included in any sweeping change of the law. The current state of things is an outrage and it is not an issue of gun owners v. everyone else—It’s an issue of big money buying what they want via “our” govt representatives.
David Brooks is an idiot and always has been. He shilled for the Bushs and carried their water for 8 years. His delicate sensibilities are hurt that the GOP HE HELPED CREATE is full of cretins and racists.
I am tired of everyone pandering to the fragile egos of self-proclaimed victims on the right with their fake outrage and their outsized sense of entitlement and white privilege. GMFB. Be nice to the wounded WASPs they don’t understand this brave new world. They keep writing this nonsense because the twinset Republicans are lost, adrift at sea and now want the left to throw them a life preserver and help them correct their mistakes.
Women, minorities, LGBTQ+ and the disabled have had to deal with the patriarchy and take it. Now they can too. Hurts but so what. I have pain for decades and I take it. I have had to watch my back my whole damn life. I am used to not getting what I want or the world the way I want it. Being born a woman made sure I learned early and being Jewish just meant I really got the message.
Now I am supposed to play nice to people who are clutching their guns like security blankets? Never. These are the same people who passed laws that got that psychopathic menace George Zimmerman off for murdering a child.
David Brooks can take his words and false advice and smug punchable face and eff off.
@Mumzy – why don’t you give up your gun? If you would be down with giving it up with a law passed, why not give it up now? No shade, just curious.
I’m a gun owner. I own a 38. I shot it once for the concealed weapons class and not since. That was 6 years ago. I’m thinking about selling because I don’t want to be a part of this crazy gun culture. Who needs an AR 15? This kid had one! Gun owners should not be against tighter gun regulations. No one needs anything other than a pistol or rifle for hunting. There is no need for semi and automatic weapons or bump stocks for civilians, IMO. Sorry if I offended you and I guess I’m being a bit of a hypocrite because I own a gun. I’m sick and tired of seeing kids dying. If this murderer had had a pistol, someone could possibility have gotten him down before he killed 17 people. And/or people would have had time to get away. I am against high powered, military grade weapons being in the hands of civilians. The fact that the people who took him in allowed to keep the guns in a locked safe, shows you that guns, even locked up are not safe. He had a key to the gun cabinet, which they didn’t know. Now they will live with guilt for the rest of their lives.
I agree with Snowflake, and I think there is a difference between supporting “Gun Regulation” and “Giving up your gun.”
Now, I don’t know what mumzy owns (and I’m not a gun owner) but there is a difference between owning a “Saturday Night Special” revolver and an AR-15 rifle.
An AR-15 – the “gun” or rifle to be more exact is the leading weapon used for these mass shootings. It is a civilian replica of the M-16 used the USMC and Army. They are lightweight. Able to fire multiple rounds (bump stocks, etc). Have the capacity for large magazines and virtually no kick-back/recoil. It is a dream to use compared to other rifles/larger handguns.
No one, no civilian, not even former military should have these outside of a combat zone. And I think this is what needs to be addressed and clarified.
We, those of us wanting gun regulation, are not going to get anywhere by demanding a full-scale ban on any and all gun/rifle weapons. Especially, as there are people that do need some sort of firepower as a defense for themselves (members of law enforcement, and others with “special defense needs) and (those living in the more rural areas) their livestock.
@snowflake – I used to live near Jacksonville (Fernandina Beach)! And you’re right. I live in Kentucky now and omfg it’s even worse if you can believe it. I have zero doubt some of these people really DO love their guns more than their kids, and definitely more than OUR kids. They aren’t changing their minds, there isn’t any way to ‘talk this out’ with gun lovers (separate from normal gun owners). None. It’d be like arguing with a Trump supporter (which most of them, if not all, are)
“In order for real gun reform to work, we need the gun owners on side”
Why the F*CK do we need to hold their hands and guide them to a reasonable position? What does “being nice” do that hundreds of mass shootings does not?
If the deaths of children won’t make them ****advocate**** for common sense gun control legislation, why would you think that being nice to them would help?
It isn’t demonizing to hold people accountable for their actions. Gun owners have failed in their responsibilities to stand up for reason, and have ceded control of gun rights the NRA.
I put the word “advocate” in stars above because it isn’t enough for gun owners to silently support common sense gun control measures. They must also SPEAK UP and call representatives, the NRA, etc. These representatives are vetoing/passing legislation on behalf of America citizens. If those American citizens held them accountable, we wouldn’t be here.
@MostlyMeghan – there are actually a LOT of sane, normal, gun owners who ARE on our side. As a real estate agent and small female, I’ve toyed with the idea of at some point getting a hand gun, and I’m on the side of gun control. People who don’t want gun control are scary because – why? What are you trying to hide/planning to do? And literally nobody who’s not in the military or on a SWAT team needs an AR-15. Nobody. But those who want one? There is no getting them ‘on our side.’ Sometimes, you have to have a line in the sand, sometimes there’s no compromise and for me, this is one of those times. I homeschool my ASD son now but was hoping to put him back into public school. Now, I feel like I can’t until something changes. Our students, our CHILDREN, cannot continue being sitting ducks at school, little bullet sponges. NO. There is no compromise, no open mind for me, as a mother, at this point. None. My child’s life is worth WAY more than someone’s “right” (cough) to own a GD assault rifle.
Eve, wasn’t that just a tad uncalled for? I mean “the fuck?” is a pretty terse statement that could easily be interpreted as “can someone explain this madness?” So while you may not agree with MostlyMegan’s explanation don’t jump down her throat for daring to offer one. It wasn’t an unreasonable interpretation of your two-word post.
I’m not seeing a ton of gun owners being demonized for being gun owners, I’m seeing a lot of gun owners going off the rails at any comment they (mis)perceive as someone making any suggestion for research or changes that the gun owners decide themselves mean we’re taking their guns away.
Two examples from the past 24 hours
in one convo noting how closely monitored sudafed purchases are a response was that meth kills and destroys lives that’s why there are such tight controls and limits on purchases of sudafed Seriously? because guns don’t have that sort of impact?
in another (in response to an article in which the shooter’s host family said they knew he was depressed but didn’t think anything about him having guns in the home) I commented on twitter about the problem with gun culture in our society leads to a lack of common sense when it comes to giving emotionally labile/depressed people unfettered access to guns. My comment was met with a storm of how I was denying people their rights to gun ownership. It got worse when I pointed out I was not talking about laws, I was talking about common sense parenting – responsible people don’t leave guns laying around and easily accessed by curious children or depressed/emotionally labile pre-teens/teens who may have an emotional (over)reaction and make a stupid impulsive decision that leads to injuring themselves or others with that gun. That explanation was met with a response along the lines of “that’s not what you’re saying, you’re telling people to lie to the authorities to say people are crazy so they can’t get a gun and then they’ll be at risk when there’s a home invasion or the person who lied about them decides to murder them”
There are a lot of people – even those of us who don’t have guns and have little experience handling them – who just want some friggen common sense and steer our culture away from this pornographic fetishism when it comes to guns. I don’t give a fiddler’s fart if you want to use guns for hunting (tho I don’t like hunting purely for sport, that’s another issue), personal protection, or to go to a range for target practice but let’s make sure people actually are responsible, licensed, safety classes taken, all weapons registered (perhaps renewals like we have for cars would help with those pesky unreported lost or stolen guns?) and there are background checks for purchases even if you’re already a gun owner (after all, you can commit a crime after your first purchase). How many kids have to die because so-called responsible gun owners leave their loaded weapon in their purse and that purse next to a toddler, or leave their loaded gun in a place easily accessed by kids who then accidentally shoot themselves or a friend, etc.?
I think his point applied to a different scenario might work, but in this case it sounded almost ridiculous. First, what else needs to happen for gun rights defenders to open their eyes and realize that maybe gun control is necessary? History, statistics and the stocks market show that whenever one of these shootings happens, they response is the exact opposite: buy more guns.
Second, the patronizing tone of the article is like telling someone that you should treat racist people with respect and love because that’s how they will respect you and stop being racist! It’s like this man has never met a human before.
Unfortunately, a big chunk of the American people have been led to believe that owning guns makes them safer, when any study you’ll ever look at shows that having a gun at home very rarely works to defend yourself, especially compared to the number of people that die through gun shot. People are not going to change that mentality, so the authorities need to take some action. But they won’t, so all this is moot. Kudos to those kids, though, if they were in a different country I’m sure their march and protests would work.
I posted about car/vehicle registration compared with gun registration. Gun nuts jumped all over me, responding that gun ownership is a constitutional right, whilst cars are not? Assault weapon owners will not voluntarily give up their irrational justifications; we need laws to override this small percentage of paranoia.
@Pandy— My gun is a 9mm handgun that I use for sport shooting (target shooting..like archery) and otherwise it is stored in a biometric safe that only I can access. There is no point in giving it up now, as my doing so would accomplish absolutely nothing of benefit to anyone. I know guns won’t be banned entirely, but my point is that for the good of everyone, I (and I expect many, many others) would willingly change the 2nd amendment, even if it means not having access to any kind of gun. The idea that anyone can buy a weapon of war is insane. Buying it without any kind of controls is way past insane. I have to file yearly papers to register my dogs in my city, and the same to have a home alarm system each year—to dispose of an old car even takes formal paperwork with my state. Bans on certain kinds of weapons, serious background checks, and mandatory licensing with training or proven competency should be the minimum of controls in place.
David Brooks argues that he knows best how to tell oppressed people how to deal with an oppressor. He’s wrong. Oppressors never voluntarily give up their power. I am a teacher and I have children in school, and I will not politely ask old white gun loving men to please eventually think about no longer holding me and my children and students at gunpoint. He is as bad as the “white moderates” MLK wrote about in “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.”
“First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”
Brooks is a pseudo intellectual has been whose brand of conservatism has always been ridiculously Pollyanna.
Exactly.
Friday night, my “law-abiding neighbor (a favorite NRA catchphrase) accidentally discharged a firearm inside his house. The bullet exited his house (not sure it went through a wall or window); traveled diagonally across the street, 4 car lengths; through my porch window, leaving a hole I can easily put my fist through; dented the wall of my house; and ricocheted back to the opposite wall. Fortunately, nobody was on the porch.
I’m not feeling like I want to be all that respectful to gun owners today.
And Rick Scott and Marco Rubio need to shut up and listen to those kids, their constituents
Can you press charges against your idiotic neighbour? He could have killed someone! Even a pet! WTF is wrong with some people in the US and their demented relationships with guns, I ‘ll never know.
EDIT to add that I am glad your story didn’t have a different ending.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad everyone is ok, but Jesus that’s scary! For someone watching from another country, sh*t like that sounds insane.
OMG I’m glad no one was hurt! And yes, I hope you can press charges! Imbecilic fool
LP,
Glad you and yours are safe. It’s a shame you didn’t also have a gun so that you could have protected yourself from that stray bullet, because we know the only way to defend yourself against a bad guy with a gun is by being a good guy with a gun, amirite??????
i’m so glad you are ok.
@ Lightpurple:
Glad you’re ok.
For the record: I’m not against people owning guns. I’m simply pro more strict laws concerning gun control.
Jesus LP please please please press charges. That is so dangerous anyone in your house or on the street could’ve been hit!!
I’m so happy that was not the case
Thanks, everyone. Yes, we’re all safe. Our state law assesses a fine or jail time for such incidents and the police charged him the fine, which my neighbor paid immediately. He will also repair my window. He was more upset than I was so I believe this will be a strong lesson for him.
I have kids and pets at home. If that happened to me I would be unleashing some fury like that guy has never imagined. Pressing charges would be only the beginning. So glad you are ok.
Jeez that’s just awful.
Of course that taking a stand and getting involved will get results. Democracy is about majority and majority is against the insane gun laws.
It’s like pink elephant in the room. Health care and gun control are problems USA could change somewhat easily. But things stay the same, and my mind cannot understand it.
Glad you’re okay! And that’s in the Boston area, right? Listen up, blue state people, these things affect you too.
(Lightpurple, I know you know this, but some people think they’re still in their safe bubble).
This visual of a stray proves my point, BECAUSE we share air/bullet space, we need laws that protect US ALL, and NOT solely the people who own said firearm.
I haven’t read the piece – yet – but I’m with Eve. The Grey Lady has made a series of utterly baffling moves in the last few years. Kaiser lists them nicely.
We need a free media that’s not Stupid McButterface. Yes, small outlets are out there, but I mean like we need the big channels and outlets to be Intelligent and truthful.
I made the mistake of reading Fox News on Facebook yesterday. The comments mocking the sit in and students being upset by their peers and friends being gunned down was shameful. Comments telling these students they should be protesting at abortion clinics if they really cared about human life. Blaming Obama. Blaming the FBI. These are the people who’s lead we should follow? Really? These representatives of Red America were advocating for the removal of gun-free school zones and students and teachers should be allowed to carry. Comparing those of us wanting background checks to Nazi Germany and Hitler confiscating all the guns. Disgusting. I’m in school. I subconsciously check the exits when I’m in class or at the library studying. It’s a very real fear. Screw these people for mocking them and mocking all of us.
They mock because they are afraid, and rightly know that the kids will become emboldened and vote against them. They are trying to tear the children down as a means of self-preservation.
I don’t think it will work in the long run. Accepting murder as a real, tangible possibility for walking into school is objectively insane and I think we will see real change.
If you’ve seen the NRA ads on Youtube (can’t seem to escape their vitriol) you know where these commenters are getting their talking points. Big-time fear-mongering. Umm, who was it brought the guns to Charlottesville??? Umm, which side experienced vehicular homicide?
I just tweeted the NYT and told them to f-off. Not like it means anything but I feel better
Good. 🙂
Yeah, that’s about all I could think to say, that & what happened to the NYT?🙅♀️
These kids are amazing and 100% justified in their outrage. The majority of Americans including the intelligent, thoughtful people on this site support reasonable gun control… Yet, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act just sailed through the House of Representatives! Money rules. Every tragedy…they say “not the right moment to discuss gun control”. Yet, that entire time the NRA has been behind the scenes pushing this aggressive attack on gun control (and the constitution, states’ rights, etc.). If this passes, someone from a state with the loosest regulations (no background check, no training required, etc.) would legally be allowed to carry a concealed weapon even in states where this is highly regulated (but the residents that actually live in that state would still not be allowed to). WTF. The disaster for law enforcement alone is almost unthinkable. How can anyone rationally defend that?
One summary of the issues: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/12/the_gop_s_new_concealed_carry_law_is_as_unconstitutional_as_it_is_unprecedented.html
See some of the creepy dudes defending this:
http://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/4P0Ghk0z5590APlQkP_jNVBAihasAP_q/the-showdown-over-the-concealed-carry-reciprocity-act/
It’s just dumb david brooks. He has become a joke. No one serious reads him for an intelligent point of view.
@Snowflake – please don’t sell it. Just turn it into the police station. That is what many responsible gun owners are doing. If you sell it – are you going to do a full background check? If not, you’re just contributing to the problem.
I am in awe of these children. They deserve our respect, support, and sympathy. I’ve been disgusted by the adults telling these kinds how they should act, feel, and think. These kids will change our world for the better, I am sure of it. And the NYT is trash.
NYT broke the story on Don Jr & Co meeting with Russians to get dirt on Hillary during the campaign as well as the Weinstein story. I don’t agree with all of their editorial decisions, but it is the paper of record in the US for good reason.
I don’t disagree with you on that, I guess I’m just immensely frustrated and unable to think logically about this right now. I grew up in Florida, these high schoolers are in my home town right now at the Capitol, lobbying the incredibly craven and intractable Republican legislature for gun reform, and it hasn’t even been a week since the shooting. I can’t even imagine doing that now as an adult, much less at 16. So no, the NYT isn’t all trash, but I’m having a hard time even giving some of these gun supporters the time of day right now. We’ve been held hostage by the NRA and second amendment nuts for too long.
It still has some quality investigative work. But it also gave us the Wen Ho Lee bs, Judith Miller and the lead up to the Iraq War, and the 2016 election coverage. The national and DC coverage can be deeply flawed and their current Opinion editors are privileged twits.
@Laugh yes I’m so proud and in awe of these kids coming up here to Tally, trying to make sure this doesn’t happen again. It’s not going to be easy since our Gov. is spineless, but I have hope.
‘NYT is trash’..why, I believe that’s a quote from our jack-ass prez…
I mean, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But, seriously, it’s pretty obvious from both my original comment and my follow up comment that the prez and I share no common ground on this. I do, however, believe that this particular opinion piece run by the Times is trash, and their choice to run it at this moment it time and to give the author space to make his points by criticizing child victims of gun violence, is trash.
America is on the verge of another Civil War.
The evil people can’t expect to win all the time and now, the next generation is ready to fight the older generation.
I agree. I’ve been saying this for the past year. I truly believe it’s necessary.
No, it’s not. Let’s not hope for that bloodbathagain.
I hope not because the other side has all the guns.
Who’s the ‘other side’? Because there’s the belief that only Republicans/conservatives have guns. This would be incorrect.
Judging from what I’ve seen we’re heading for something much bigger. But yes, I think a new civil war in the US will be a part of it.
omg, I read that and thought it was satire! I am speechless that it wasn’t..ugh. just..ugh.
Liberal-leaning publications like the NYT are so paranoid by this “fake news” culture that they’re giving a voice to the most monstrous ideas in the interest of seeming “balanced” and “unbiased.” I still support the actual journalistic efforts of the NYT, as opposed to its garbage opinion page, but they need to get their shit together in regards to OP Eds. Stop publishing trash just because “free speech.”
I see your viewpoint but I disagree. I think we’re at risk of being silo’ed if all we read are opinions and news articles that align with our own views. The NYT doesn’t publish fake news in these op-eds and I think it’s refreshing to read a new perspective even if it’s diametrically opposed to my own.
@Shambles Brooks has been a columnist for the Times since 2003. He has been saying stupid sh-t for 15 years. His claim to fame is that ridiculous book Bobos in Paradise, a vapid marketing study disguised as social commentary.
I didn’t know who Brooks was when he popped up on Charlie Rose (sigh) one night a while ago. The smug, superior attitude that wafted off of him was so bad I turned him off after 2 minutes. My God, he was insufferable. You could just tell that he thought it was only natural everyone should worship his enormous intellect, even if what he was spewing was utter nonsense.
I wish they’d stop with the op-eds all together, because nonsense like this does take away from the actual journalism. Wasn’t there just one recently that was pro-Woody Allen?
Just report facts. Please.
Let people from red America lead the way?! I have two thoughts on that. First, I think they fail to see how unintentionally funny it is. I know they mean people from red states, or Republican gun loving voters in general. But if they paid attention to history they’d realize that the red scare, the red threat, turning America red etc. used to refer to the fascist McCarthyite paranoia that America would be taken over by Soviet communism. And ironically, here we are decades later with our democracy*actually* under threat from the Russians. This is where we ended up when red America led the way.
My second thought is pretty much Fu*k off, New York Times. I’m not interested in respecting gun owners. Even the “responsible” ones. Not anymore, not at this point.
yas! if they were so “responsible” they would be all for changes to make everyone safer. i have no respect for anyone willing to argue they desperately need an AR-15 or other semi-automatic assault weapon to make their dick longer. i can’t think of any other reason to have one.
Oppressed people don’t get equal rights when they listen meekly to oppressors. Never happened, never will. Look at the myth that men ‘gave’ women the vote. Women had to damn well fight for it.
The only way things change is by challenging the status quo; protesting, raising your voice and point out where the other side is wrong. And it has to be done by large groups of people supporting each other.
You can see how Native Americans (and indigenous people all over the Americas really) are treated. They are often too few to make a serious challenge or trounce politicians with their votes and they are mistreated to the point that even their clean water is taken away from them.
Also –
THEY ALREADY ARE. THEY WON THE LAST PRESIDENCY. THEY WON CONGRESS. THEY NOW HAVE THE MAJORITY OF THE JUDICIARY.
And they’re still angry! Because they’ve been had by a party that told them minorities and uppity women were the reason they weren’t successful, yet they’re too proud and belligerent to admit that’s not the actual problem. Their idea of democracy is that when you win, the other side falls down and let you trample all over them. The violence is an expression of what happens when they realize it isn’t that easy.
Red America is not leading the way though, is it? And I’ve had it with this entire discussion. “You don’t understand our culture!” That is a correct assessment. I don’t. This is so far removed from how I grew up, there is no common ground. If a culture involves the phrase “gun culture”, I fundamentally do not understand it. And I don’t need to respect anyone whose reaction to dead children is “But what about my hobby???”
Yep. It’s not a difference of “culture” (because apparently gun-crazed white person is a “culture” now). It’s not a difference of political opinion. It’s a difference in morals. In capacity for compassion, empathy. It’s straight-up “I care about dead children and other human beings in general and you don’t.” Not a political issue at all, despite what the NRA and the asshole in chief would like you to think.
i stood up and clapped at your comment.
I need to stop watching The View. Meghan McCain is getting on my last nerve with her “You don’t understand.” My mistake.
That is so they can feel put upon and disenfranchised and wallow in self-pity. They have to have a title of some sort.
The same fake patriots that support the Tangerine Swamp Monster as he hands the democracy over to Thug Putin so he can destroy it. The NRA is in bed with Thug Putin too, but you know MAGA.
@magnoliarose, indeed! They love to play the victim. As you can see even to the point that having their guns taken away from them is worse oppression than their ‘rights’ causing countless of shootings and kids dying.
And as for that argument “if they didn’t have a gun, they would use XYZ weapon instead”: if the weapons were so interchangable, why don’t they use those weapons now?
The answer: because they use the weapons that cause most casulties. So those are the weapons that should be forbidden. Simple logic.
Uh oh, Flan that is too logical for the MAGA crowd.
A maniac with a knife has a chance to be taken down before murdering someone much less a lot of people.
They thought their anger was about minorities and are now finding out even with they have everything they aren’t happy they lose their minds.
Amen.
People need to read the op ed and then decide for themselves if what he is saying is reasonable. The CB headline is misleading in my opinion.
I’ve read it. It is actually worth a read. This, for example is concise and spot-on: “We don’t really have policy debates anymore. We have one big tribal conflict, and policy fights are just proxy battles as each side tries to establish moral superiority.”
However. It is gross at best to get people to read it by leading with a criticism of the survivors of a school shooting. The op-ed itself is misleading that way and the title doesn’t help. The writer makes a few good points about the political discourse in the US but for god’s sake, don’t use dead children as clickbait.
The title and lead are both gross. Basically, “Sure we can talk gun control but first you must kiss the ring”.
Fuuuuuuck off, Brooks.
Also, that op-ed isn’t even really about gun control either. He seems like a d*ck.
Whenever this respect bullsh*t comes up, I remember that episode of The West Wing when Sorkin tried hard to give us a respectable Republican with solid arguments in the form of Ainsley Hayes. She shuts down Sam by shouting something like “you just don’t like the people” who like guns. And it always felt wrong that it worked as an argument or an indictment. Because yeah, at this point, I don’t like the people who like guns or rather, I don’t like the people who STILL fight harder for their guns than for their children’s safety. And why should I?
I did read it and I didn’t see anything new or interesting or compelling. It’s the same set of arguments I’ve been seeing for decades. Why should those of us on the left continue to bend and compromise and listen and try to understand when the right is uncompromising and has repeatedly shown their cynical willingness to use the good will of a more tolerant and open-minded left against them. Look, I really wish we could still have bipartisan dialogue and compromise, but the right has worked for years to ensure that’s no longer possible. To use an awful but relevant metaphor, we need to stop bringing a knife to a gun fight. As a mom, I’m done listening when their response to dead children is basically #notallgunowners.
This completely. Your other comment up-thread is spot-on as well.
I don’t know why the burden is always on the Left to listen more, to be more open-minded, to be more respectful, to be the bigger person in every political debate. We have been doing that for as long as I can remember and look where we are now? The days of “they go low, we go high” died with the inception of a Trump presidency. Now is the time to fight to protect every damn thing we hold dear. Because the Dems have proven they won’t do it for us and we know that there is no limit to how low the Republicans will go in terms of using human life as a bargaining chip for NRA lobby money.
Lindy, you summarized my thoughts exactly. It’s become crystal clear that people care more about their guns — and pols care more about their NRA funds — than they do about human lives. This weekend I heard someone on a podcast talk about how “they go low, we go high,” as noble as it seemed at the time, has crippled the left. She said from now on when the GOP goes low, the left needs to go “subterranean.” I tend to agree. The time for compromise and rational debate is long past. And if I hear any more disingenuous concern trolling about “the mental health problem,” I’m gonna lose it completely.
One of the FL teens had a great point, “If you can’t get elected without taking money from child murderers, why are you running?” Thank goodness for these kids.
“The days of “they go low, we go high” died with the inception of a Trump presidency. Now is the time to fight to protect every damn thing we hold dear. Because the Dems have proven they won’t do it for us”
The Dems weren’t doing it even before Trump.
I read it. It’s bullsh*t. And I grew up in a small town in a western state so I “get” the gun culture. And I think that is bullsh*t too.
Guns are tools for killing. Full stop. That’s all anyone needs to know about them. And it’s repugnant that a broad swath of Americans think that guns are worth more than the lives of their fellow citizens.
I live in a city. I am almost 39 years old. When I was I’m primary school, a boy who failed the semester went home at lunch, took his father’s gun and shot himself in the head. My friend’s mom had picked us up for lunch and had to tell us. I can literally still remember the song playing on the radio at the time. The teacher had a breakdown, as students, we were stunned and afraid that we knew a boy who shot himself. Thirty years later, the gun that kills children is still the headline. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
@nancy
What a sad story.
As I said above, I find Brooks to be ridiculously Pollyanna-ish on social issues, but this column really takes the cake. Thoughtful conversation is not going to convince someone who is full of hate and fear that military-style assault weapons have no place in a civil society. The issue is so much deeper than a red/blue disagreement on the issue.
Well, let’s start with the title: “Respect first, then gun control.”
That alone is worthy of derision as guns are still killing people now. So why wait with taking them off the street to mourn? The people mourning and shot at want them off the streets, so who is the writer to say we should have ‘respect’ first? Doing nothing will only cause more casualties and mourning.
The only thing they want is us to shut up long enough for this to become less relevant. I think we’ve finally reached the tipping point where this will not happen anymore
Respect to gun owners?? Please tell me what they have done to earn respect. You’re going to tell people who are about to bury their children or friends that they’ve got to respect gun owners?? I wonder how much the NRA paid for that. This. is. insane.
Oh. My. God.
The New York Times has been sucking for a while now so this is not entirely surprising but still totally unbelievable.
By “Red America” do they mean MAGA conservatives or Russia?
These students looked death in the face, and they are fearless and they WILL succeed in getting gun laws changed. Sooner rather than later, most of the old fart NRA diehards will die off and the gun lobby will weaken.
But even before that happens, this brave, young generation will face down those politicians who are bought and paid for by the NRA and expose them as sell-outs to the gun lobby.
Bravo to these heroes and heroines!
Kids at school will be of voting age soon enough. When the younger generations get angry they get out and vote. They need to carry their anger into voting stations and change things up. Politicians are only there as long as they get the support they need to keep their over-priced seats.
Let Red America lead the way? Thanks, but I’ll pass.
Seriously WTF to NYT.
We have been letting red America take the lead on this for 20 plus years and look at where we are at. Brooks’ entire article is the same straw man argument that has been peddled by idiots like him for over 20 years and I am sick of it. IOne straw man argument after another and deflection. Why is he making it about red and blue? Who isn’t giving someone from a red state respect? He thinks just because I value my life and the lives of others over him and his ilk have a gun that somehow we aren’t respecting him. Has be drunken so much of the koolaid that he cannot see anything else. What a sad little man with little hands and a smaller brain?
We should have the same type of gun control there is in Japan. They have to jump through hoops to get and keep a gun and their gun deaths (both by suicide and murder) are relatively low.
No, we are not going to stop every murder/suicide but there is a better way to handle it than what has been going on. And I bet this mouth breather would not be saying the same thing if his family and friends had been treated to a spray of bullets like in Vegas, Columbine, Aurora, Syria, Afgahnistan, Yemen, Somalia, etc.
Old white dudes, baby boomers, are really panicking aren’t they? They are losing (have lost?) all credibility. Step aside fellas.
It’s as if they really believe they will live forever.
Yes. I guess we should have seen it coming. The Wash Post ran a piece recently on how blocking immigration will keep whites the majority just those few years longer…the years that older white people want to ‘enjoy’ until they die.
Catherine, my brothers are old white dudes and babyboomers.
They protested the VietNam war so lighten up a bit? There are
plenty of young white panicky dudes out there as well.
Jared and the Trump Jrs. willingly jumped in to help: not of my generation.
I had to cancel my subscription, which was hard for me because I love the arts section, the weekend section, the science section, and oh, the book review! But honestly, I can’t take it anymore. They have done SOOO much damage to this country. They have yet to explain that “The FBI says there’s nothing here” regarding Trump and Russia 11 days prior to the election. They have destroyed us.
I cancelled my subscription about 8 months ago. I am all for opposing viewpoints, but some of their articles have really veered into irresponsible.
I admit I cancelled it about ten years ago after they read an op-ed that tried to do a “balanced” opinion article on the gang-rape of a 13 year old.
Since our current political officials are spineless I hope that this generation puts an end to this bloodshed. I’m sick and tired of hearing senseless gun violence. I have two kids in high school and everyday I worry that some nutjob will go into their school and cause a massacre. People are losing their lives and nobody seems to care.
Well there is happening in this country right now, great divide in ideology between those who want closed bothers, guns, the last stand of white privilege vs the liberal open borders gun control, and they are just giving a platform to the former, which pissses me off. I read the Times and I didn’t read this and I don’t think the readership over there is going to buy into that at all. The Times comments section is broad based, east coast, older liberal types with 20 percent bot like alt right responses to pro gun control comments. They need to stand for who they are and not bend to the dark side!
That’s really distasteful.
You can support current gun laws (I don’t) yet still appear compassionate in the face of tragedy.
Again cancel your NYT subscription if you have one. They’ve run the dumbest stories in the last 3 years that it hurts. Stories about your friendly neighborhood nazi, Op-Eds from climate change deniers and they tried to hire someone who dropped every slur in the book online and is best friends with known white supremacists.
NYT is trash.
Agreed, I subscribed to the Washington Post instead for just these reasons!
I also do not think everybody is lumping all gun owners together. It is about gun control for people who have mental problems, who are accumulating weapons like we are facing the end of the world and who think nothing of owning a machine gun that is used in military battles.
Nobody is talking about taking away the guns from hunters or people that feel they need to protect their houses or what not.
And I feel that these gun owners should be the first ones to agree to stricter gun laws and show the respect to the rest of the citizens who worry about mass shootings etc.
@MariaF – EXACTLY!!! tHE GUN OWNERS NEED TO AGREE TO STRICTER GUN LAWS AND (oops, sorry) and show the respect to the rest of the citizens…It’s about keeping guns away from folks with mental illness. It’s about stopping the accumulation of weapons. It’s about stopping guns that kill many in seconds, repeating machine guns. A handgun for protection (which I disagree with, as statistic prove it’s often turned on you) versus a machine gun for killing as many as possible in the shortest time.
Wow wtf
David Brooks has always been a despicable smug self-satisfied pompous ignorant ass. Nothing new.
I own a gun, a small handgun I keep by my bed. I use to be in an abusive relationship and was sexually assaulted so if some fucker breaks into my house and makes it to my bedroom, he’s asking for it. With that being said, it never leaves me room and rarely leaves the box. Other then a handgun and a gun for hunting (rifle or shotgun max 2 shots before reload) is all I see as acceptable for any American to use. I still don’t see why anyone needs an assault rifle or any high firing gun. For those that say “it’s fun to shoot” I seriously side eye them.
Thank you for being a gun owner with some common sense. I’m not a gun owner, but I come from a family of hunters and your comment is what I’ve been saying for years. A handgun for protection and guns for hunting should be the only thing allowed. Assault rifles should only be used by the military.
I hope this doesn’t come off as combative because I 100% understand why you would keep a gun for self-defense given your past experiences, but isn’t the gun more effective in terms of giving you the ILLUSION of safety than ACTUALLY ensuring your safety?
I ask because as someone who watches way too much Forensic Files and ID, I know that most intruders attack women when they are sleeping. It’s the easiest way to guarantee that you won’t be able to fight back because you’re in a state of extreme vulnerability, one that allows the perpetrator to easily and efficiently overwhelm you before you even have the second it would take to grab a gun.
I also ask because I’ve been assaulted twice and I am 100% convinced that a gun would have made absolutely no difference in terms of protecting me in either scenario.
I don’t know…I just think all these arguments (not yours in particular, just generally speaking) about self-defense and The Good Guy With a Gun are mostly just fantasies. I truly believe that most people keep guns to make themselves feel safer, when the reality is that statistics show that a gun in the household increases the risk that someone could get shot, most likely the gun owner.
If gun ownership could guarantee personal safety then a country that has as many guns as we do should be one of the safest in the world, but instead we are one of the most violent.
As usual, Kitten, you are right. I worked in law enforcement for 7 years. I have more training and expertise in handling a weapon than a majority of citizens. I am no longer in that field. And guess what? I do not own a firearm. The fantasy of the good guy with a gun is just that, a fantasy. I have wracked my brain trying to find a good reason to own a firearm, and I cannot find one except hunting, which I don’t do. Most people that break into houses do so to steal. This will primarily happen when people are not home. Less risk. Duh. If the goal is to attack someone, this crime has also been thought through and the perpetrator will attack when there will be the least resistance in order to take someone by surprise, ideally when they are asleep, like you said. A gun would be useless to you. Your brain/wits are your most powerful weapon in such a situation. The stories of “homeowner shot intruder” are actually pretty rare. Where else do people carry guns? In their cars? Gotta fend off a road rager with a gun? Good luck not shooting another innocent motorist. In public places? Nah, too many bystanders and the cops have to figure out where the threat is truly coming from when they arrive. There is really no reason to have a gun, period. The risks far outweigh the benefits. If you truly want to feel more safe, take a self-defense class. That type of training is far more useful in most scenarios that an average person might encounter.
Oh GEEZ. It’s David Brooks. OF COURSE. He is SUCH a moron. Old white man, Baby Boomer, idiot.
As soon as I knew this was him, I rolled my eyes so hard, it hurt. Consider the source.
When you reduce it to old and white it says just as much about you. There are plenty of old and white enlightened people just as there are plenty of young and non-white idiots.
OK, so no, not every white person is like that. But….many are. I’m white and I’m amazed at the things I see and hear from fellow whites. And let’s be real, how many of these old white people have any contact with minorities? They don’t have a clue about the racism minorities experience. My husband is mixed and the stuff I’ve seen done to him are just appalling. One of my neighbors saw my husband at the mailbox and told him he had a nice setup. My dumbass had talked to that neighbor and mentioned I lived here before we got together. So my neighbor assumed my husband was a bum living off me. I could go on and on. And the sad part is that when I tell fellow whites about some of it, I get told whites experience racism too or that I misunderstood, etc etc. I guess this is similar to what POC encounter when they speak about racism. Then when you look at congress, its mostly old white men. No wonder things don’t change!
@Snowflake
“And let’s be real, how many of these old white people have any contact with minorities?”
You’re talking about a specific group of people–these “pundits” and Congresspeople. I hope redistricting, starting with PA, changes this.
It may shock you to know that many people in their 60s, like me, grew up in multi-ethnic cities. The scenario of most older people growing up isolated and insulated isn’t reality. It’s a caricature. The Rust and Bible Belts are not the majority of this country. The rest of us are. If you have any doubts, I suggest you look at the Popular Vote count for the 2016 election. The vocal, right-wing minority is just louder and has a bigger real-life screen presence, so to speak.
Also, parochial views cut many ways. It’s not just old whites.
Ok how about “it’s David Brooks”? How’s that? He’s been a blowhard for at least two decades. And I find his editorial incredibly disrespectful. As noted above, those young adults have stared death in the face. They’ve lost their friends to senseless violence. They shouldn’t have to. And they certainly shouldn’t have some idiot telling them to sit down and let gun nuts lead the way. Gun nuts led us HERE.
Except that by and large, older and mostly white people are who put Donald Trump and his ilk in office.
White men commit the vast majority of these mass shootings.
White people, and particularly those with less education and who live in rural areas, make up the highest percentages of gun owners.
That’s not a generalization. It’s backed by actual demographic and voter data. You can twist around all you want screaming “NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE!!” but as a fellow white person? It’s bullshit. We are the problem. We have to own it. If black people have had to spend the last century being told they were dangerous because of (highly selective) urban crime data, if Muslims get accused of being terrorists because of a series of scattered attacks in America, if Hispanics get to be the scapegoats for job loss and wage recession, then white people can sure as hell own this one. I’m tired of it. Time for us to get over ourselves.
@Veronica
Coming from a family of Holocaust survivors, I don’t want anyone EVER to lump me in with the people you blame or tell me to own this one or get over myself.
I do understand how you feel SuzyQ we have a similar background.
White but don’t get the full white experience and privilege. It is a strange place to reside sometimes. I always take the position they aren’t talking about me but the kind of white people who DO behave that way. I try to say “some” when I use qualifiers for that reason.
@Anastasia
“Ok how about ‘it’s David Brooks’? How’s that? He’s been a blowhard for at least two decades. And I find his editorial incredibly disrespectful. As noted above, those young adults have stared death in the face. They’ve lost their friends to senseless violence. They shouldn’t have to. And they certainly shouldn’t have some idiot telling them to sit down and let gun nuts lead the way. Gun nuts led us HERE.”
Look at comment #22
TOTALLY agree with you!!!
He can’t stand these young people having a voice. He wants to be the only one with a voice.
Hence, he finds an excuse for why they should shut up (“respect first”).
Maybe he should have some respect for the people who actually were shot at, shut his mouth for once and listen to them.
I’m afraid that without campaign finance reform we are banging our heads against a wall. Gun control, healthcare, global warming, perpetual war. All at the mercy of big $$$$ in Congress. We need pols that can vote common sense without worrying about $$ for the next election.
I agree and I believe we need to start with term limits. These fat cats sit up there collecting a salary most of us can only dream of, getting bloated on dirty money and blood money from the NRA and big oil and wall street, and the longer they are there and the richer they get, the harder it is to boot them out on their asses.
Start by voting them out. And not just out of the White House, but every small post where they have some power.
That op-ed reads as though he was desperate to meet his deadline and churned out some random unresearched sh*t and cliches to make his word count. It sounds like he didn’t even attend the meeting he described.
i’m white and i’m from a trash town in ohio and i live in a trash town in PA . people open carry where i grew up and there are guns everywhere. where i live now people conceal carry and there are guns everywhere. i feel extremely qualified on the impact of economic strife on white people when i say this:
poor white people are always going on and on about respect and being looked down on. it is rooted in DEEP insecurity. no one respects their job or their guns. you get into an argument with one of these people and they will immediately start droning on about respect. they are human embodiment of “what are you lookin at – you think you’re better than me?” but they never, ever, ever respect anyone else. ever. its their way or the highway. i don’t feel bad for someone who lost their job and stubbornly refuses a state funded education to enter a new industry. i don’t feel bad for someone economically left behind b/c they vote for people who legislate to further oppress the middle class and those in poverty. i don’t feel bad that gun ownership is stigmatized b/c they insist on a culture of violence and try to blame POC for the gun stats that white people cause. i am fucking DONE caring about these people and their opinions. they are the minority on this gun issue. as POC and women have been told since the beginning of time – being in the minority sucks….get used to it!!! its their turn in the barrel and i for one, would like to kick it off a cliff.
thanks for sharing. I am with you.
I currently teach in a small conservative town in West Texas and see so much of what you shared. I am so tired of the weird empathy for angry racist white people whose security is linked to an odd fetish of guns. many of aggressive male students have come to office hours after an introduction to world regional geography or sociology course, trying to find out if my real agenda is taking their guns away. the campus I work on is open carry and every pick up truck in the parking lot has gun bumper stickers and crosses (the linking of Jesus to firearms takes a leap of logic that is hard to stomach).
the students have even done research projects on open carry and guns on campus and their own research reveals a microcosm of wider national trends, the majority of female and POC students don’t want an open carry campus, the far right white male straight students are passionate about this ‘right’ in an educational environment. these are the same students who in discussions about ‘symbolic interactionism’ on how the confederate flag means violent things to many parts of the population, return to class wearing their stars and bars baseball hats and putting confederate flag covers on their iPhones, so when I am teaching and they want to ‘take photo notes’ of the board, i see the flag. as you aptly put, get over your insecurity and ignorance, that is the only hope for this insanely violent and greedy country.
and NYT—we are on a break up for now. good grief, fanning the flames with false equivalencies? these young people are speaking truth and because of their intelligence and passion are a threat to power holders who are soulless and trying to undermine them. I can’t believe how disgusting to trash the speeches of young people who lived through a trauma and are responding with intelligence and political action. how dare old people to do this to this young people?
Agreed! That’s what I’m finding most infuriating at this point- all these adults– politicians, pundits, authors– telling these child victims how they should feel, react, process their grief and rage. As if they know better, as if their discourse hasn’t hastened our society to this place where teenagers are forced to take on our battles because the adults have failed them.
@mack
Another great comment.
Some of us don’t live in those areas so it is interesting to read from an inside perspective.
@Lizzie
your post really enlightened me, thank you.
One of the best comments I have read on here since I have been commenting. You explained relatives I no longer talk to in a nutshell. I could never articulate this nearly as well.
Thanks.
I have cancelled my NYT subscription. Seriously WTF?
You’d think NT Times would know how to screen for Russian Trolls.
Just cancelled my digital subscription and politely told them why. These kids are amazing. They don’t deserve to be talked down to or reprimanded.
I think the smoking analogy that someone posted above is spot on.
People always go on and on about gun rights and the constitution. Well, maybe the guns they should be allowed to own should be from that era.
As for lawmakers, I always think it’s rich that they think guns should be allowed everywhere except for where they work. If there were in schools they would have enacted stricter gun controls eons ago.
We have speed limits, seatbelts, banned cell phones whilst driving to reduce accidents. We banned smoking in public areas. After 9/11 we have to show ID and boarding pass to get to the gate. After the show bomb attempt, we have to take off our shoes. After another attempt, we now can’t carry liquids over 3 oz in our carry ons. After someone laced Tylenol with cyanide and killed seven people, we got tampered resistance packaging. But after years and years of school shooting, all we have are thoughts and prays.
Spot On here and you’ve made the point more eloquently than I could. I’m gonna use these examples next time I talk about this
I cried watching Emma’s speach. She is amazing and I agree with everything she said.
The silver lining to baby orange fists is that it has made us angry and that anger has empowered us to stand up. Time’s up on a lot of $hit. We are living through history. It’s going to be tough but we cannot give up.
TIME’S UP!!!!!!!!!!
The New York Times needs to fire David Brooks. His views are so flaky and he’s so out of touch. I met him once and he seems to be a nice, gentle guy, but there is no excuse for that clueless, descpicable editorial. He needs to go. NOW.
Love Emma, what an amazing young girl with so much passion, cant wait to watch the Townhall on CNN on Wednesday night, believe she is going to be on it with other school survivors.
Agree, Emma’s speech was so powerful and brilliant.
To paraphrase her spectacular speech, BS to backing down to the NRA buying politicians to do the gun lobby’s business while children die in their classrooms.
I will watch too. Thanks for the head’s up.
When 3% of Americans own 50% of the guns, isn’t that really just stockpiling? And for what? Fetish? Anti-gov insurrection? I don’t have to respect that! And to my shame, my brother caved to peer pressure after the assault weapons ban was lifted over a decade ago. He got his kids into guns and they have AR-15s. So do their friends. They display and brag on their guns. It is sickening. They do love these guns more than the kids at Parkland. I have seen this behavior up close. They will not change. David Brooks is tragically misinformed.
Huh, that’s odd. Gallup indicates that, as of 2011, 47% of Americans state they have a gun in their household or on their property. http://news.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx I wonder why there’s a discrepancy?
That 3% has lots of guns, while the other 44% only have one or two.
I think it’s good that a mainstream media like the NYT runs op-eds with different opinions. It should be clearly stated that they don’t represent the thought of the actual newspaper, but anything that encourages a healthy debate is good. BUT there needs to be a balance. Like if you’re going to publish an op-ed like this, you NEED to run it with the contrasting view.
That aside, it made me sad to read that column. I don’t know why it’s so hard for some people to understand the issue here. I have no idea who David Brooks is, but he seems to be mixing the wrong ingredients there.
I prefer that too. It is much more responsible. They seem to be missing that element. I stopped reading Brooks because he got on my nerves.
He did say He missed the class and elegance of the Obamas. So do we.
But his views are wishy washy and often wrong.
Is the NYT living in an alternate universe? WTF was this all about? I am glad these kids are documenting what happened. No one can deny these murders didn’t happen. After all these inbreeders were saying Newtown was a hoax. To this day I’m still raging over that.
Keep poking the bear. All these kids are eligible to vote come fall and they will go after all the NRA apologists and toadies.
His articles flies in the face of the reality of countries that have legal access to guns by a fraction of the gun violence America has. The reason? Strict gun laws. Laws that require you to go through significant education programs. Extensive background checks. Restrictions on what kind of weapons are accessible to the public. These countries still have hunters. They still have carry laws. They just don’t have 28 mass shootings in the first two months of a year.
The reason this one feels different is because it rides the wave of the anger over Donald Trump. Nobody cares about the rights of guns owners when they put a man in office that doesn’t care about the HUMAN rights of women and minorities. Angry white people got their man in office, and they’re still taking it out on the rest of us. Clearly, nothing will actually make them happy. What the, quite literally, desire is for the rest of us to die.
(You know what a lot of national media sources are leaving out about this, by the way? The fact that Cruz was associated with a white supremacist group. Parkland’s school district is nearly 40% Jewish.)
Ok Red America, lead the way on gun control then.
Today we had a lockdown drill at the community college where I teach. The text message said “go to your safe place”. The 10 minute training we got at the beginning of the year apparently didn’t sink in, because I had no idea if/where such a place was. My students all fit in our inner lab, so that’s where they went, while I watched out the full wall of windows whose blinds were all stuck at the top. Not a great feeling, even though we knew it wasn’t real.
This, along with the most undemocratic inhuman and aristocratic health care system you can come up with in the history of health care, is why the rest of the world just stares dumbfoundedly at the USA and wonders how it continues to remain so far behind the rest of the world.
That was probably the work of a Russian troll. Trying to keep the conversation divisive.
“David Brooks is back on his bullshit. Ever since Donald Trump was elected president, the New York Times columnist has become an outspoken proponent of ideologically vacant centrism as the one and only solution to toxic partisanship and intractable tribalism.”
This.
Come on Trump ban guns and you’ll get what you always wanted…Hollywood’s approval.
In what we now consider the Civil Rights era a majority — MAJORITY — of Americans believed that the protestors, marchers and those that participated in sit-ins were wrong. That they were disrespectful, dangerous and going about their goals incorrectly. That they should, instead, politely respect those that wanted to limit their rights as human beings, discuss and understand the racist’s perspective, etc. 60-ish years later, we know how very incorrect they were. That it if they waited to obtain basic human rights until all the racists agreed with them, well, we’d still be looking at separate drinking fountains today, at a minimum.
A cultural change never happens via polite request. Those in power will not yield it to please and thank yous. The vast MAJORITY of Americans believe in common sense control. In fact, recent polling shows it’s more popular than at any time in modern history. An NBC poll out yesterday found that 97% of Americans — let that sink in: 97 percent — are in favor of universal background checks. 83% support a nationwide mandatory waiting period for purchases. And 63% support a ban on assault-style weapons. All those numbers, except the last, include a majority (50%+) of gun owners, and more than 40% of gun owners surveyed support the assault weapon ban, too.
Arguing that the majority must politely subsume to the whims of the minority is not how democracy works. The second amendment was added to the Constitution in 1791, but wasn’t legally interpreted to refer to an individual’s absolute right to own weaponry until 2008 — yep, just a decade ago — in the Scalia-led Supreme Court decision of DC vs Heller. This is not a long history of unfettered American access. We’ve done most of this damage since the Brady Bill expired in 2004. We’re talking decades of history, not centuries.
Gun regulation restricts NO ONE’S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and has occurred from day one in America. Anyone who tells you differently is ignorant, or intentionally lying.