The Hollywood Reporter has been playing a little fast and loose this year with their Brutally Honest Oscar Ballot. Usually, they publish four or five ahead of the Oscars. But by Saturday, only two were published (you can read Ballot #1 here). Ballot #2 is from an anonymous woman in the Actors Guild branch of the Academy, and man, she has some issues. At one point, she talks about her memories of Kay Graham flying to see Lyndon Johnson in Texas, which means this woman is easily… what? 60 years old or so. Keep that in mind when she starts in about “the race card” and Get Out. You can read the full ballot here. Some highlights:
On The Post: “I eliminated The Post first. To me, it was the most boring movie. I remember that era, and that Kay Graham flew in to LBJ’s parties every weekend down on his ranch — that I would have liked to have seen! I give it nine yawns out of ten.
On Three Billboards: “Then Three Billboards — there were a lot of things about it that bothered me. I heard the writer-director [Martin McDonagh] talk, and he seems like a very nice guy, but his film offered an awful take on what middle America is like. It was pretentious and false. If it was meant to be a farce, I didn’t find it funny — I don’t find bigotry funny, I don’t find a grownup hitting children funny, I don’t find someone blowing up a police station funny. These people were just caricatures.
Get Out & the race card: “Then I eliminated Get Out. It’s a good B-movie and I enjoyed it, but what bothered me afterwards was that instead of focusing on the fact that this was an entertaining little horror movie that made quite a bit of money, they started trying to suggest it had deeper meaning than it does, and, as far as I’m concerned, they played the race card, and that really turned me off. In fact, at one of the luncheons, the lead actor [Daniel Kaluuya], who is not from the United States [he’s British], was giving us a lecture on racism in America and how black lives matter, and I thought, “What does this have to do with Get Out? They’re trying to make me think that if I don’t vote for this movie, I’m a racist.” I was really offended. That sealed it for me.On Call Me by Your Name: “One guy [Armie Hammer] comes off as a 35-year-old hitting on a 17-year-old [22-year-old Timothee Chalamet], and that just bothered me — although I loved the cinematography and that house in Italy, which I understand is up for sale now.
Dunkirk & The Darkest Hour: “Then came Dunkirk. It was impressively made, but there was no heart or humanity in it, and I learned more about Dunkirk from five minutes of Darkest Hour than I did from the whole movie Dunkirk. Next out was Phantom Thread, which was beautifully made, but there was no one to like in the film. Lady Bird I liked quite a lot, but not enough to vote for it at number one. That left it down to Darkest Hour and The Shape of Water. Darkest Hour was pretty much a perfect movie to me — well, maybe not the subway scene, but it was really well done overall, and you really understood from it the courage that it took from Churchill to save that country. I wish we had more politicians today who were as courageous. While I thought it was the best movie of the year, I didn’t think it would have a chance of winning, so I put The Shape of Water, which I also liked a lot, at number one. It’s a beautiful film with a good story well told — horror meets love — and I’ll be very happy if it wins.
On Best Actor: “I eliminated the guy from Get Out [Daniel Kaluuya] first — it was a very entertaining movie and he did a good job, but it wasn’t Oscar-worthy. Then I eliminated [Call Me by Your Name’s] Timothee Chalamet. He’s a charming young man — I met him at one of these luncheons — but he’s so much like he is in that movie that I don’t think his acting was that stretched. Then I eliminated Denzel [Washington, of Roman J. Israel, Esq.] — I thought his work was really good, but the movie was not. Next out was [Phantom Thread’s] Daniel Day-Lewis, who I absolutely adore, but God, did I hate his character — there wasn’t one thing likable about the guy, which isn’t Daniel’s fault, but I couldn’t get past it. I found him more romantic in There Will Be Blood. [Darkest Hour’s] Gary Oldman was simply superb. For me, nothing beats this performance. He really hit a home run.
On Best Actress: “…They forced Meryl [Streep, of The Post] on us again. I’m just sick of her. To me, it was the most boring performance that was nominated, because I’m just so aware of her technique after the last few years, and I never care for the human being she’s playing. Saoirse [Ronan, of Lady Bird] is very sweet and lovable, but she was much better in Brooklyn. I thought Frances McDormand’s performance [in Three Billboards] was absolutely awful. The easiest thing for an actor to portray is anger, but to portray what’s underneath the anger — pain or guilt or whatever — is harder, and I felt like she didn’t do that at all. I loved her in Fargo, but in this one, to me, her performance was one-note and inauthentic. At one of the talkbacks that I went to, she said that she based her performance on John Wayne, but John Wayne had charm. Sally [Hawkins, of The Shape of Water] is absolutely wonderful — I love her, I think she’s great in this part, and I think she was also great in that Maudie movie. This is a phenomenal actress. But in the end, I chose Margot Robbie [for I, Tonya] because she had an even harder challenge that she conquered: playing her character through her teens and twenties and beyond, and evolving physically and mentally along the way. That was the best performance of the year.
This is one of those cases where I completely agree with someone on one particular movie and then I absolutely loathe what they have to say about everyone and everything else. This woman is totally right about the criticism of Three Billboards, and she’s utterly wrong about The Darkest Hour, Dunkirk, The Shape of Water and Get Out especially. This voter is one of the reasons why the now-former president of the Academy actively tried to bring in more younger voters and diverse voters, so the Oscars wouldn’t be decided exclusively by people who remembered when Kay Graham hung out with LBJ and thought that Get Out unfairly (???) “played the race card.” What the everloving f–k?
(All that being said, I do think Margot Robbie should have been a bigger Best Actress contender.)
Promotional images courtesy of IMDB.
This woman talks like a Trump supporter. Are we not allowed to talk about race? Is any discussion of racial issues automatically playing the “race card”???
Yeah. I think the whole Meryl-hate hammers it home that this person is a friend of trump. I didn’t see The Post, but it looked tremendously boring from the trailers, so I’m not surprised about that. But the “so sick of Meryl” shtick – total red-hatter.
Eh. You don’t have to be a Republican to be sick of seeing Meryl Streep nominated year after year after year. Trust me.
It’s not that Meryl isn’t good (she is) but she is often a lazy choice.
I thought Meryl was fabulous in the Post. She is just so overrated I am not rooting for her. Get Out is a movie abouy race, so it’s playing with a full deck, not a single card.
I’m with Boxy. I’ll add to that, that MS has made a career out of being attached to bad, bland, or forgettable movies. She has ONE real classic under her belt (Deer Hunter). Looking at her filmography, little holds up (don’t start me on K vs K or made-for-tv-like dingo-baby crap). Great actor, yes. Mediocre script choices. It’s weird to me how she’s put on such a pedestal.
I don’t think the Meryl Streep hate automatically means this person is a Trump supporter. I think people are just sick of seeing her nominated all the freaking time. Her nomination should have been Annette Bening’s. Many people have said that. Streep *is* the lazy choice.
Total Trump supporter.
From the lack of self awareness, to the lack comprehension skills required to assess what a movie is about from the previews, and the tone-deaf irony of whining about their perception of bigotry.
The epitome of absurd.
But this got me thinking: Get Out is about kidnapping and “murdering” people so that better-off people can live forever and also enjoy the physical superiority of their new, young, more talented body. Unless the therapists’ hypnotism could work only on black people, why did the rich people limit themselves to orphaned black people? They could have had a much bigger pool to pick from, and a new white body would blend into the “scenery” better.
luna, the whole point of the movie is that they’re fetishizing black people to the point where they don’t see them as people anymore. Unless I’m way off base, but that’s what I got out of it.
Naw, she just sounds like your classic law and order older republican. Not all Republicans support Dump. I read her full ballot and her opinion on the documentary Traffic Stop proves that she is a card carrying rethug.
Sorry, AT, this in answer to KGEO — thank you for replying. I’m going to look up fetishize. But even before I do, let me say that I am very shy and nervous with most people and I think they sum me as a simply boring person, when I am actually complex … boring … and scared to death to be in a social situation … and interesting! On another board someone mentioned the similarity to Skeleton Key movie, with Kate Hudson, I think. Sehr interessant (curls mustache).
Eh, I’m totally sick of Streep, and I DETEST Dump and his complicit band of corrupt criminals with every fiver of my being. I saw the post, and it was BORING. Streep definitely phoned it in. I wasn’t impressed with Hanks either. I do think Sally Hawkins gave a perfect and nuanced performance using only her expressions and body; THAT, to me, is acting, not putting on an affected voice.
This.. Streep showed up and the whole movie was exhausting.
I do get her angle on Get Out. Don’t yell at me! It felt a bit campy as a psychological horror. I enjoyed that. And I do think it rode the coat tails of the shift in our nation. It was good marketing and promotion to do so.
I liked it. I didn’t care for Allison William’s character at all. There was no character. It was AW trying to act.
I skipped The Post because I saw All the President’s Men however many years/decades ago. THAT was a great movie & I just assumed, rightly or wrongly, that The Post covered the same territory.
Then again, how many WWII movies have been made?! At least the other movies in this category are more original.
When I read the race card comment, I thought this person just missed the whole point. They said the actor was giving a speech on racism I America and Black Lives Matter and this voter could not see the connection. I think they honestly thought it was just a horror movie with race used as a theme, but it was actually a race movie with horror used as a genre. I think they missed the metaphors in the movie because they don’t know enough about the current race discussion. The movie showed white people who idolized black characteristics while at the same time did not value them as individuals.
@Katie
Yes, you nailed it! You stated it perfectly
Meh. I felt like I was watching an M. Night Shyamalan movie.
Okay, glad someone else got this. I replied to someone above that the whole point of the movie was about the fetishizing of black people, but then I worried I missed the point.
I think something to always keep in mind with these pieces is that The Hollywood Reporter and the other outlets who’ve copied them are specifically going looking for controversial opinions. They’re looking for people who’ll say stupid and out of touch things, they’re looking for people who’ll gossip and bitch about the nominees and they’re looking for people who have different opinions on the nominated films than the majority. They don’t want someone who just gives well-considered, film-centric opinions. That doesn’t get people talking.
This definitely felt that way, almost like trolling.
This person is still an Oscar voter, which is ridiculous! Can’t they find better people? Who doesn’t vote for the one they think really was the best movie because it won’t win? If you don’t vote for it, it definitely won’t win. Ugh.
After reading her statements, I can’t take the Oscars seriously anymore.
This is the type of person that votes?
She called Daniel Kaluuya ‘the guy from Get Out’, while she could name all the other actors.
And her complaining about the talk about race… ehm, the movie IS about race. It’s about the horrors that have been inflicted on black people more than it’s just a horror movie.
@jussie, So true. And it shows how flawed the process is. But it is the same in Real life. Like selecting Jurors for a trial. The people that can be thoughtful and render decisions based on REAL WORLD reasons are not the ones being selected. They sadly opt out. Same with the Oscar voting. She votes. She votes. And sad some of the voices that can actually look at a picture and vote for the best don’t bother. They give their ballots to family, friends, employees. The Hollywood community needs to take more interest in making this process better.
I *kind of* see what she was saying if the actors’ talking points at industry events were how she summed it up- “if you don’t vote for our movie you’re racist.” Definitely not the best way to ‘sell’ your movie to the awards circuit. Especially since the talking point should have just been this is an extraordinary movie with a unique take on race relations and the “harmless” microaggressions many of us deal with on a daily basis, and the movie was flat-out amazing and the best film of the year.
Yeah she sounds like an old out-of-touch lady but she *might* have a point there. Ps both my brother and I have white partners (we’re Afro-Latino) and took them to see Get Out, led to some really amazing conversations and deeper understanding between us. Such an awesome film.
.
Actually that’s not what they said. That’s *her* processing the information dishonestly “They’re trying to make me think that if I don’t vote for this movie, I’m a racist.” I was really offended. That sealed it for me.”
As a matter of fact, the lead actor says it’s funny that people go out of their way to say they like the movie so that *he* doesn’t think they are racist. He said this on Colbert and other talk show that the thought never hit him until it kept happening. To him you either like the film or you don’t. Fiscussing the social issue the film is trying to portray is what you do at a film viewing and discussion.
Exactly.
EXACTLY.
You summed it up perfectly. I think that she is complaining about how it was being marketed in the awards campaign, not the actual film itself. She says she was bothered afterwards by the way they were pushing it.
Well, she calls “Get out” a “good B-movie” which is definitely not true. I think her inability to recognize the intention here outs her as a dim-witted bigot she is. Peele and Kaluuya didn’t try to sell it as something it wasn’t – “Get out” is indeed a reflection on race relations in America, dressed as a B-movie, which represents a unique take on the issue.
Dim-witted is right. “…they started trying to suggest it had deeper meaning than it does” …seriously?
Given white people’s history of history of immediately getting defensive when race is brought up, how do you even know that she is telling the truth of what happened and not just a biased and bad take on what happened with Daniel and the promotion of the film in itself?
I’m with Aiobhan. I think it’s a lot more likely this woman felt defensive at the mere mention of race relations in America and accused them of marketing it in a way that they probably weren’t.
Jordan Peele and Daniel Kaluuya were always well-spoken and on point when they were promoting the film. I’ve seen them talk a lot about the film’s nuances and themes and it was nothing like what she is claiming. So unless they completely threw that out the window and changed their approach for Oscar voters, I think she’s projecting.
She seems to not want them to broach the subject of race at all. Taking that position after seeing a movie like Get Out? The issue is her not them.
I wonder if she saw the same movie that I did? How can you distinguish the issue of race from Get Out? Part of what made it so powerful, funny, scary, and real for me (a white woman with a black child) was the context of the pervasive racism in this country. So if she gets “lectured” by a black actor he decides not to vote for the movie? What a telling story….
“Lectured” = a black man sharing his opinion
She was thisclose to saying “uppity.”
Though I like her thoughts on Meryl Streep, 😉 this person should have been calling a bingo game, not voting the Oscars.
The academy needs an overhaul.
Bingo! ITA.
…and Billboards & Dunkirk I agree with her on those…but she in the end sounds like a crank period that hates most things in life.
Heh—ITA with her on Nolan. His movies are increasingly schematic and emotionally dry. Can’t figure why—he knows characterization and has awesome casts, but you get the feeling he’d rather make his movies games than dramas.
Sounds like the voter doesn’t want to be told that a movie’s subject matter makes it inherently better/more worthy than the other nominees.
It’s like back in the day (too lazy to look up the year), when Bette Midler’s “For The Boys” didn’t win anything. She seemed to think that the subject (patriotism, basically) and all the heartfelt effort of the cast and crew made it more Oscar-worthy than anything else, and she acted as if the Academy had punched her in the face.
I think “Get Out” is an incredible movie, but like the voter, I wouldn’t appreciate being told that not voting for the film is the same as not supporting its message. The fact is, not every film with something important to say says it well, or is brilliantly made. Not the problem with “Get Out”, but I totally get the voter’s irritation with the movie’s Oscar campaign, IF in fact it’s leaning heavily on white guilt to capture votes. Who knows.
Alix, can you elaborate on the Bette Midler stuff? That movie came out when I was a kid so I wasn’t really aware of all the campaigning that went on then.
@PGrant’s Girl: Sure. It was a comedy-drama musical soap opera about an actress-singer who entertained American troops in WWII, and worked on/off with a partner for 50 years. Midler won a Golden Globe and was nominated for an Oscar for her performance, and I think the soundtrack got a nod, but overall the film met with tepid reviews. (See Roger Ebert’s here: https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/for-the-boys-1991)
I can’t find anything online about Midler’s reaction to the general snub given her movie by audiences, critics, and award shows, but I remember clearly several interviews in which she stated that the film’s “message”, and heartfelt patriotism of everyone involved, should’ve meant more. I don’t know what the movie’s actual Oscar campaign was about, but it wasn’t enough to get people to vote for a mess of a film. But yeah, she was bitter.
Alix maybe read some of the comments up just thread. The Oscar campaigning for “Get Out” was not about pressuring for white guilt votes. The film was about race in America and so discussions about the movie are going to about race. This wasn’t an unrelated treatment of the film for the sake of pushing a race politics campaign.
I like this site, but the writers seem to not understand that things like this are opinions. To say someone else “utterly wrong” about their thoughts on some movies reeks of ridiculousness. It’s all we’re all right and everyone else who disagrees is deplorable. It gets tiring to read after a while.
I haven’t seen Get Out, but it seems to play the race card bc all I know about it is it has something to do with black people. It’s how it’s been celebrated. If it’s such a great movie, then let it stand on its own merits, whether the movie is a larger commentary about race or not. I love everything Jordan Peele does, so I don’t doubt it’s good.
Moonlight was about black experiences, but was celebrated for being good filmmaking, no just because it was about black people.
By the way, old people are people too. They’re just as entitled to share their opinions as everyone else.
Can you explain what playing the race card is to you? What is wrong with talking about experiences that have happened to you? What does “playing the race card” get you that offends you so much?
You haven’t seen the movie but want to make a large generalization about what it is about? Also you are wrong about what the movie is about. I would say more but I’m not going to waste my time.
You shouldn’t have wasted your time responding to this idiotic post.
“I haven’t seen Get Out.”
Next.
Exactly. Bye.
THIS.
I laughed. “I haven’t seen Get Out, wah wah wah…(Charlie Brown teacher’s voice). Smh
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. Why can’t people accept that it is perfectly legitimate to have differing views on movies, and to call them “utterly wrong,” it is ridiculous.
And yeah, old people are people too!
Because when your “opinion” is clearly couched in racism, guess what? It’s no longer an opinion, and you are in fact wrong.
You all can miss me with this “it’s just my differing opinion!” shit.
I don’t want the opinion of someone that hasn’t seen it but “heard” about it on a deep topic like racism. Its hugely narcissistic hogwash believing your option is that important and very arrogant to think we care for it.
“I haven’t seen the movie” but let me tell you about a movie I haven’t seen and agree with someone who doesn’t understand the movie. Sounds like she was offended by this movie because it may have hit a nerve. This is exactly what the movie is about micro aggression that myself and black people face everyday. The “oh no, I can’t be racist” crowd can’t relate or refuse to relate to this movie. I would like to specifically know from someone who hasn’t seen the movie how the race card is being played? And this movie was far from a B movie that made a lot of money.
Commenting on a movie you haven’t seen if like talking about you spent a night with Brad Pitt because you looked at his picture.
Good one
I would highly recommend the movie.
The reason people are talking about the race aspect, IMO, is because it was about the subtle racism of liberals, not the conservative, in-your-face racism. It was a unique take. The movie put an uncomfortable mirror in front of the everyone who claims to be progressive allies.
It was a brilliant movie, not a horror movie with gotcha jumps. Acting, directing, writing, everything was perfect.
But at the end, since racism is such a terrible scar for our societies, the fact that it explored the subject in a such a masterful and novel way and opened new topics of discussion is what most people are talking about. And it did that on top of being an absolute 5 star movie.
I haven’t seen the movie, but I would like to respond to your comment, and not the movie.
I think 99% of whites in America are racist. I am a flaming white liberal – I work with racist people now, I have taught racist kids when I was a teacher. They often have the overt form of racism. I think that the racism I and other white liberals possess is much more underground, deeper. We have all been raised in a deeply racist society, and it is our shameful inheritance.
I was just in a diversity seminar for educators. There was a chart presented that showed the likelihood of you seeing someone who looks like you when you go out your front door, depending on where you live. After we all studied it for a few minutes, the presenter, an African American professor, said, “This chart says I should have over a 90% chance of seeing someone who looks like me in my city – but my city is 6% black. So no way will I have a 90% chance of seeing someone who looks like me.”
We all stopped breathing. I was stunned. The chart in US News and World Report was written from the perspective of white people and didn’t note that. It was just assumed. This is why I think we are all racist and have to check ourselves everytime we can.
I saw Get Out and didn’t like it. Catherine Keener was miscast & Allison Williams wasn’t very good. I got the point but didn’t think it was well-delivered. It lacked any subtlety which could have elevated it to a more incisive commentary instead of second-rate horror with too much of eye-rolling.
That’s my opinion, to which I am entitled, just as others can have theirs.
I am not trying to sound harsh when I ask this because I sincerely want to know: Why does the movie being about black people bother you? I want to understand why that would turn you off.
But in the future don’t say “race card” if you don’t want to sound like a racist. It is only used when white people don’t want to listen to black people and want to dismiss what their issues are. The film touches on racism so it would be hard to do that without addressing race.
You should see the movie and decide for yourself.
You should have stopped your comment at “I haven’t seen Get Out.”
There is literally no reason to keep talking after saying that. You can’t contribute to a discussion if you don’t know what the discussion is about.
there is always this underlying theme when it comes to any movie with a black cast. YET no one digs that deep into the thousands upon thousands of movies that come out with a cast that is mostly white. I feel like more and more of this is going to happen. Black Panther is kicking ass. I have seen so many nasty comments on some sites because it is doing better than the usual fare.
WMGDHtoo—wait till A Wrinkle In Time comes out. Several of the comments on the NYT’s recent Ava Duvernay profile were dismaying, to say the least.
Yeah, this person is an old-fart Republican, and one with no redeeming culture or artistic sense. So many tells, including “John Wayne had charm.” Lol, no. He had about as much charm as Bill O’Reilly: just a big, arrogant bully. But it’s a right-wing marker: John Wayne was known for his right-wing views and was an ardent supporter of Nixon.
Also all that stuff about Get Out. My god. Daniel Kaluuya doesn’t get to have an opinion about race in America (while promoting a movie about it)? But she gets to pontificate about Churchill’s handling of the war in England? I guess she didn’t think the Stepford Wives in the 1970s wasn’t about misogyny either? What a privileged, navel-gazing dope.
I’m glad you brought up Stepford Wives because when anyone has asked me to describe Get Out , my response has been Stepford Wives with racism instead of misogyny.
Yes! I came here to say the same. John Wayne was a bigoted asshole with the screen presence of a 2 x 4. Charm, my ass.
John Wayne was a White Supremacist. His racism was just that virulent.
I would say this voter is older than 60s. Probably late 70s.
Agreed, and I said as much below. I’m 60 & I hadn’t heard of Kay Graham during the LBJ presidency. I was vaguely aware of LBJ being president by the time I was in third grade (his picture was at the Post Office), certainly knew of him by sixth. Her? No.
Time for her to retire from voting in the Academy.
Well, the AFI named Wayne 13th greatest male star of all-time, so yeah, he had to have had some charm and overall appeal. Just because YOU don’t like him – what is that worth?
James Stewart was known for his right-wing views too. Are you now going to say he didn’t have any charm?
Not everyone finds racists charming.
That the AFI named him such, does not make him so. Especially not if the people there are similar to this voter.
James Stewart consistently picked projects where kindness, integrity and altruism were emphasized.
John Wayne consistently picked projects where his characters exterminated Native Americans.
I see a difference.
I agree that the Academy is hardly perfect. They have celebrated plenty of horrible people as long as they were bringing in the bucks.
This person is out of touch and racist. Also what evolution did Tonya go through? She never evolved and still blaming everyone but herself for her failures. She still hasn’t gotten over her creepy obsession with Nancy Kerrigan.
She’s talking about the actress NOT the real life Tonya.
Except there was no evolution of the character in the film, so there was no evolving for the actress. So again, what is she talking about?
In my opinion I, Tonya was the best movie of the year, and Robbie was the best actress (Though I didn’t see Call Me… or Dunkirk.) This movie could have gone wrong so many ways but it didn’t. It’s technically very tricky too. I thought it was great and everybody in it was very good.
As a long time fan of figure skating I thought “I, Tonya” was garbage and full of lies and half-truths. I originally wasn’t going to see it but finally did.
“…full of lies and half-truths…”
Well, duh. The screenplay is structured to show multiple points of view, with many scenes of characters giving their view of events to the camera. Allison Janney’s character thinks Tonya is an ungrateful brat; Tonya thinks her mother was a bitch who pushed her too hard and never praised her. Tonya says Jeff was an abusive boyfriend; Jeff says she was violent and he never beat her as bad as she claims. Despite the grim nature of many scenes, the POV scenes are usually the funniest in the film as each character tells the story in a way to make themselves look innocent.
Way to miss my point. The film never bothers to tell the truth outside of those characters. They have just continued on with the same lies and pretend that the truth is somewhere in the film.
I’ll be bummed if Robbie wins. (but not mad like when Julia Roberts won for Erin Brokovich. Barf. The Academy does love an “ingenue” – so she’s v.s. Ronan if it comes to that. I thought Robbie did a really good job, but I don’t see how anyone could be more mesmerizing and bewitching than Sally Hawkins in Shape of Water. I also think Hawkins had the more challenging role.
@Merrit,
“Way to miss my point. The film never bothers to tell the truth outside of those characters. ”
But what is the accurate truth in the I, Tonya story? We don’t know and will probably never know. Obviously Tonya, Jeff and Lavona all have differing “truths” but the objective truth is unknown. I thought that was the whole point of the film.
What insider knowledge do you have that the rest of the world is missing?
Except there are things that are known. It is not insider knowledge. It is about looking at objective sources of information.
1. Her claims about the way the skating community treated her are demonstrably false. You don’t win two national titles (only one is still counted) and a world medal, if they are trying to keep you down. Her placements only went down after 1991 because she was no longer training the way she needed to. She also couldn’t land her triple axel in competition after that time.
2. Her former coach Dody Teachman is on record about both Tonya and Jeff being violent towards one another.
3. We know her mother was abusive because it was witnessed by other skaters.
4. We know she was involved in the planning of the attack on Nancy because of the phone calls she made and because law enforcement said it was her handwriting on papers that she or Jeff left in a dumpster. All of that was in the 30 for 30 about the case.
@Merritt “As a long time fan of figure skating I thought “I, Tonya” was garbage and full of lies and half-truths.” & “The film never bothers to tell the truth outside of those characters”
That was the point. In the film, after one of the competition, she goes up to one of the judges to ask why she was scored lowed. At the bottom of the screen a sub-title pops up saying “this never happened”. Then when they get to the part of Nancy, another title pops-up saying something along the lines of “this is where their stories divert”. And to all your points 1-4, they show all that. It may not be the “here is what actually happened” story you were looking for but they never marketed it that way. The truth of what happen lies somewhere in the middle.
And yet all the Tonya supporters continue to repeat it as though true. Robbie and Janney did it too.
Didn’t you read the opening shot stating the movie was based on the interviews with each person? Who missed the whole point of the movie. Sheesh.
Sigh. Except it wasn’t, otherwise certain things wouldn’t have been deliberately left out. It was garbage.
The Oscar is not supposed to go to the “best message” or “the best truth,” though, but to the best filmmaking. Or there should be “the best message & truth” Oscar.
This film was far from good filmmaking.
Hoo boy, moronic cranky Republican.
Thanks Minx, for making laugh – signed a cranky cause I got up too early this am – Democrat.
Dear Brutally Honest Voter –
Re: Get Out
That sound you heard was the point rushing over your head. Jaysus.
I feel like a hypocrite because I throw an Oscar party every year, although it is more of an excuse to hang out with friends and make fun of how celebrities dress. But the total cluelessness, while not at all surprising, is frustrating nonetheless. While I am under no impression that the Oscars has THAT much much to do with actually awarding the most deserving movie, I keep hoping the Academy will actually come through with their promise to instill new blood.
I’ve watched interviews with Daniel Kaluuya and Jordan Peele and I never thought they were lecturing people about race. I don’t think she has a point. In my experience, some people hate any talk about race. It makes them feel uncomfortable so they talk about playing the race card.
Saying someone is “playing the race card” is a completely defensive comeback, imo, and in my experience something only someone who’s racist will say. It’s just utterly dismissive.
Exactly, @Jade. And the reason those people feel uncomfortable talking about race is that they know on some level that they themselves may have some kind of racial bias.
It is striking a nerve and she is projecting that on the actor and the movie. She probably only likes racism addressed when it is back during slavery or an issue like voting rights in 60s.
This woman completely missed the point being made in Get Out and it’s both annoying and unsurprising.
I think she gets the point being made, but she her job as voting about the film made about it, not the point per se.
I’m not understanding what you’re saying here, can you clarify?
No, she didn’t get the point of the film and her comment about the film even hints at it. Anyone who can so easily pull out that phrase does not get this film and what it was trying to do. You are trying too hard to rationalize what she is saying.
Making a statement about race or being about racism is not the same as “playing the race card.” The only time I’ve ever seen someone “play the race card” is when it’s a white person being offended by a POC pointing out the racism that they see. White people are the only people who play the race card.
She also is not good at her job. Her reasoning for dismissing films is all over the place. It is a combination of anecdotes from functions AFTER the movie or irrelevant personal thoughts on actors, etc. The whole comment about the Allison Janney in I,Tonya makes no sense. She is not voting on the films based on technicalities, if she was, she would have focused on that in her comments. Her comment on Phantom Thread is stupid; she didn’t vote for a film because she did not like the characters. Not the acting, she had no opinion on any of the actors, which you think she would since she is a part of the acting branch. She talks about how she did not like the characters. You do not judge the merit of a film based on whether or not you liked the character.
@Tanesha86: My interpretation of the voter’s comments is, she wants to vote on the quality of the film itself, not on its message. The screenplay, direction, plotting, casting, the whole ball of wax from a creative perspective, and NOT the “racism is hurtful, horrible, heinous” message. The message we can all agree on; the execution of the film presenting that message is what voters want to focus on.
In other words, movies calling out atrocities — racism, genocide, you name it — should still be based on their creative/technical merits, with no extra points for the subject matter. (It’s roughly the equivalent of figure skaters dedicating their routines to ailing/deceased family members, recent victims, etc. People get incensed when this emotional layer isn’t factored into the score. But the judges can’t award more points to a ‘dedicated’ program over one that isn’t, as dedications have nothing to do with the actual performance.
Agree with you completely. The message is important, but it won’t make a movie a better movie. There are tons of movies with important messages that are not great as movies.
I feel you’re giving this voter way too much credit, Alix. She didn’t vote for DDL because she didn’t like the character he played. She said nothing about his craft, she even said it wasn’t his fault. “Next out was [Phantom Thread’s] Daniel Day-Lewis, who I absolutely adore, but God, did I hate his character — there wasn’t one thing likable about the guy, which isn’t Daniel’s fault, but I couldn’t get past it.”
She’s voting based on her emotions there, which doesn’t go along with the, voting only on the quality of the film, argument you’re making on her behalf. She’s allowed to dislike a film, and think it wasn’t any good, but her votes were based on her emotional reactions to the campaign, a character, or feeling that someone’s personality shows that they weren’t “acting.” I do give her credit for watching every film she voted on, and agree about Meryl.
@Sophia: Oh, she’s clearly a stupid voter, all right. But even a broken clock is right twice a day, so I can’t automatically dismiss everything coming out of her mouth as nonsense. Tempting, though!
LOL.. she didn’t vote for DDL because he wasn’t “Romantic” like he was in There Will Be Blood.
she needs to stop voting. because her emotions get in the way of any logical thinking. She is an Actor that doesn’t care about the actual acting in a film
I thought Get Out was OK. I’m not really into horror movies. But a lot of the stuff was spot on. My husband is mixed. He’s like a quarter African American. But I’ve noticed, even my own family, they mention black people they know to him. My mom mentioned Ben carsen and how great he is. That’s a whole other subject, Ben Carson. But some of the stereotypes are right. When I tell people about some of the stuff that has happened to him, I get told he’s making it up or it didn’t happen. We get so many looks when we go out together. He says he doesn’t get that many looks when he’s by himself. I think its because we are together, I don’t get that many looks when I’m out by myself. He dresses rea! Preppy so its not that.
Did you catch when Idiot Trump asked April Ryan if she could set up a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus?? Cause all black people know each other, right?? Just like all Asians know each others, and Latinos, too. It’s only whites who aren’t familiar with all the rest of us.
/CantMakeThisUP
Yeah, that was ignorant.
She sounds very uneducated, which makes one wonder why she was invited to vote
Jennifer Lawrence gets to vote and she dropped out of middle school apparently; so why not this lady? The Academy is (supposed to be) about long service to the industry. Period. They’re not a highly educated bunch. Period.
Look what she said was dumb and obviously the filmmakers are more nuanced than her nonsense. But the PR people in charge of Get Out’s Oscar campaign? I guarantee you, GUARANTEE you, they have subtly floated the “importance” of voting for Get Out and how you, I don’t know, stand against Trump if you do. Remember the Oscars are about public narrative, backstory, and who is “owed”, not merit. And it is ugly, all about back stabbing. Oh and of course it’s not just Get Out that pulls the offside tactics. It’s a long Oscar tradition of spouting over the top nonsense about your film.
Oh and this lady IS the Academy. The vast majority of it. That membership push just nudged the needle. Barely. I just hope younger members who are embracing these awards are doing it for the publicity (rightfully so!) and not because they honestly believe the Academy “validates” their work.
Why are you screaming? And since we don’t know you at all, instead of guarantees, what about proofs? Can you prove your statements?
I have highly educated friends who sometimes have stupid and narrow minded opinions, uneducated friends who are self-taught and brilliant. I wouldn’t disregard people’s opinions based on education alone.
This is about movies. I assume someone who’s worked long enough in the industry to be invited to be a member of the Academy would have a more informed opinion than I would have. Why diss Jennifer Lawrence because she is a high school dropout? She has reached the top of her profession at such a young age instead of going to school. Though I disagree with her on The Phantom Thread, I loved that movie!
I like Meryl Streep but come on, can we all agree that it’s time for her to step over and give a chance to other actresses or the academy to stop nominating her for everything she does even the most boring and not so great performances of the last decade?
Or the industry could have more roles for women. Less than 40% of speaking roles go to women.
I wonder how many speaking roles go to fat people.
She didn’t deserve it this year. Her movies are so Oscar baity it is getting very old.
I don’t want Meryl to step out completely, but she is everywhere, I think she should dose better her presence on screen .
Good grief. Now we know why anything not done by older white guys has such a hard time getting Academy recognition.
Every time Get Out is on HBO, I’m watching it. It’s an amazing movie and has a completely original premise that includes gore, horror, comedy, and racism. The idea of the sunken place, while visually pedestrian, was so horrifying it could cause nightmares. Tea anyone?
But I’m a movie nerd so there’s that.
“was so horrifying it could cause nightmares” Exactly why I won’t be watching it or any other horror movie. I can read the books, love reading horror. Stephen King probably owes me a 2 years of sleep, lost because I couldn’t stop reading. Not watching the movies, though.
I would enjoy all the voters pointing out the age difference much more of I felt there wasn’t an element of gay panic involved in it.
I agree with her final two sentences, although I haven’t seen I, Tonya. Sally Hawkins is excellent, so excellent that I feel a lot of Oscars voters are like, don’t worry, her time will come, and ignore her.
Sally Hawkins is so great always!
Maybe for some. But I really had a hard time with the visual age difference, gender had nothing to do with it. It looked like a gay Woody Allen flick.
I have seen all the Oscar contenders. I liked Get Out, but don’t find it worthy of an Oscar. It was, of course, all about race. I think that was the whole point of the movie from the opening moments. So to not understand that as a voter is surprising.
I like Meryl, but her performance in The Post underwhelmed me. She sounded a lot like when she portrayed Julia Child and that distracted me.
My favorite was 3 Billboards. I think Frances McDormand did a great job. But I’m guessing Shape of Water is going to win a lot. I thought it was a good movie, but didn’t love it. Honestly, I didn’t really love any of the movies this year. It was a bit disappointing compared to last year when almost all the movie were wonderful in their own way.
This is why Jordan Peele made Get Out. He made it for the supposedly woke people in Hollywood to push a button. It reveals a lot.
The race card line is rich though. I seriously want to punch someone when they utter that stupid statement.
That movie was ABOUT race you frigging idiot. Tells me everything I need to know – if talking about race offends you and you think it somehow implies you’re a racist then guess what… you are a racist!
I read the whole article and I feel like it was an enlightening look into the brain of a racist. At one point, I actually started laughing because I couldn’t believe this woman’s lack of insight.
1. Did the definition of a B-movie change somehow? I certainly don’t think of Get Out as a B-movie. It seemed pretty mainstream to me. It had a $4.5 million budget which, granted, is less than most of the other Best Picture nominees. It had a bigger budget than Call Me By Your Name but Get Out is the only film she refers to as B-movie. I suspect this woman may think “B-movie is short “Black movie”.
2. When she says she enjoyed Got Out but that she was bothered by the suggestion that it isn’t just a horror movie and that it actually has something to say about race … I just don’t know how to take that. If you don’t think the movie has a lot to say about race relations, why did you enjoy it? Do you find the subjugation of black people entertaining? You don’t understand what Get Out has to do with Black Lives Matter. You litterally didn’t notice the group of white people who were targetting black people and ruining their lives so that the white person can live forever (because black lives don’t matter to them)? Seriously, how does a racist person enjoy Get Out? How do they process that movie?
3. I liked that she was offended by the suggestion that she’s a racist. It made it so much more entertaining for me to watch her dismiss all of the black people first. “I eliminated the guy from Get Out [Daniel Kaluuya] first.” Yeah, no shit. In the Best Supporting Actress categories, the first two people she says she isn’t voting for just happen to be the two black actresses. In the Best Documentary Short, the first movie she eliminated was Traffic Stop because she didn’t like the woman in it. I haven’t heard anything about the movie but, at this point, my suspicions were raised so I googled her. Guess what? She’s black.
Yep, how dare anyone suggest she’s a racist.
Bam.
You nailed it, all of it.
Very obvious.
She also said she doesn’t think the bigotry in Three Billboards is funny lol maybe she thought it should be revered.
I think at this point we can say with certainty that anyone using the term “race card” is a racist or racist-adjacent, at the very least.
Millie- you nailed it, I just read the whole thing. Holy hell, her full comments on Traffic Stop were beyond telling.
SMH when she said a non-America doesn’t understand anything about American racism, b*tch who do you think traded slaves to us and fought to get rid of it through the courts? Its hard to believe Americans that dumb live to be old and continue to bury their racist heads in the sand their entire life. Age doesn’t bring wisdom always it sometimes just makes people even more set in their awful awful beliefs. .
Yeah, that comment stopped me in my tracks, too. What a stupid point of view. I guess since I’m an American, I can’t understand the Holocaust was bad. Right????? /dumb
“Gary Oldman was simply superb. For me, nothing BEATS this performance. He really HIT a home run.”
And she said all that without sarcasm! Woman beater: OK. Black oppression: nope.
If Shape of the Water’s creature was a black man, she’d have never chosen it, because “race card”. Sad sad old white privileged sounding person…
Wow. There’s so much bias in that woman’s opinions, I’m not even going to try to unpack it. I’m 66, and I didn’t know that Graham used to fly to Texas to party with LBJ. It’s highly likely I was so absorbed in college and law school that I had tunnel vision, plus didn’t travel in the right circles, but I’d guess this person is older than I. Maybe significantly so. Her views are certainly outdated. Jeez.
C-Shell, I’m 65 and also trying to peg this woman’s age. I’m guessing she’s at least in her 70s, judging by her comment about John Wayne’s “charm.”
I am in my 30s but tried to think back to my parents, and I don’t think they would have been paying attention to that kind of thing at the time.
I say late 70
@minx and @magnoliarose, I think we’re all on the same page … that level of social and political awareness has to peg this woman in her 70s at least
Could you guys tell me how much horror is in Get Out? Daily life is already filled with more horror than I can bear, yet I love Key and Peale.
If you mean gore, it’s really not bad. I was hesitant over this too. But I took a chance and watched it, and I have never seen a film like this. I would not have wanted to miss this. Give it a try.
It’s real life horror. Which is the entire point. I thought I would be too exhausted by life to love this movie…but I was wrong. It’s super layered and nuanced. Defs a movie that sticks with you.
Not a lot of jump scares or outright gore. It’s more psychological thriller
It’s a lot more psychological than anything else. There is one gory scene that I looked away for, but you see it unfolding so you can look away, it doesn’t sneak up on you. There is a lot of humor in it too.
You should give it a shot, you’ll be happy you watched it. It stays with you, but in a good way.
I read the entire interview yesterday. This person is an idiot. I still think about Get Out.
ive seen all the movies. i would vote for shape of water for best picture without hesitation, which is the same thing this voter did. i dont get invited to squat so none of the round table stuff influences me. i did enjoy get out but isnt my choice.
i am also sick of meryl being nominated for being meryl. i didn’t not care for the post much and would give that nom to someone else. and i volunteered for bernie and then hillary and have an impeach trump sign in my yard for the record.
all opinions on movie, tv, etc are just very subjective. some people are jerks, some people are stupid, some people only vote for friends, some people dont see all the movies. i appreciate that this voter saw all the movies and some of her opinions are very well thought out. ultimately, she picked the same movie i would have picked. if she had liked get out more, i have no reason to think she wouldnt have voted for it, regardless of the campaign. maybe she wouldnt have. but i prefer her to voting for casey affleck because you are friends with his brother or whatever led to that mess,
I was LIVID just reading her comments. What a loathsome smug pig of a woman. I wish she were Id’d so people know what they’re dealing with as far as dealing with her.
Her pearls have more brain cells than she does.
It’s a shame the voters only vote on the movie as a whole or on the celeb acting the part rather than the actual role itself. If she felt Darkest Hour was the best movie, then why vote for Shape?? Or if Denzel was good in his role, why eliminate him because the rest of the movie sucked in her opinion? Makes no sense.
And I agree that I, Tonya didn’t get enough love.
I never get that either. But if it is a poor movie in all other aspects, that often seems to be the case. I guess because they realize no one votes for a best actor performance in a bad movie, so rather than it being a throw-away vote, they vote for another performance that they really liked also. I haven’t seen Denzel’s movie, so I don’t know if it was bad or not.
I do feel Denzel deserved the Oscar for Fences I wasn’t all that impressed with Casey Affleck’s performance and just don’t see why his performance got so much praise at all of the award shows. I mean, Casey was good in it, but I wasn’t blown away by his performance. I also didn’t like the movie as much as other people did. I guess there was too much hype, so by the time I saw it at home, it was always going to be a letdown.
I think she misunderstands what the race card is.
I think she is upset that she feels manipulated to choose Get Out- that she will seem racist if she doesnt. That the cast and crew promoted it as such.
At least thats how I read it. She’s totally wrong of course.
It’s true that Moonlight for example was promoted very differently from Get Out. And nobody gets called hater of all women if they say they didn’t like Lady Bird that much.
Of course not. But this lady was clearly insulted by the way she viewed the people behind the movie presenting it- I dont feel shes right or anything.
This is why Academy membership shouldn’t be for life. Besides White people tend to go through life with the blinders on. The vast majority of them have convinced themselves that race doesn’t matter and therefore whenever someone even dares talk about race they are playing the race card.
Also respectibility politics and that whole line of thinking that basically says it must be something black people are doing is still alive and well. One of the commentators just said something along the lines of her husband dresses preppy so it can’t be that; don’t know if she realizes it but that’s a very troubling statement. It’s as if to say other blacks are harassed because of how they dress or how they look, i.e. “if they dressed better, didn’t wear hoodies or saggy pants they wouldn’t be a target”. You know if they just weren’t so damn black! If only they tried harder to fit in and assimilate and not stand out.
Truthfully, I don’t even get upset or surprised anymore. In fact I expect that line of thinking from most White people and a helluva lot of black folks too. I’m more surprised when someone actually gets it.
I just said that because before when I’ve commented about my husband being discriminated against, people have implied that he must have been looking like a “thug.” And thats why he was treated like that. But I will be really honest here and admit that I have been more or less afraid to approach people depending on how they are dressed. Of course, that was wrong. I grew up in mostly white areas so I have not had much interaction with POC until I moved to where I’m at now. And started dating my husband. Through him, I have realized some of the stuff that I have internalized and didn’t even realize was from a racist POV. For example, that thing about dreadlocks and being dirty. That’s not true. Things here and there that I didn’t realize came off a certain way. In no way does anyone deserve more or less respect because of how they are dressed. I did not mean anything like that. I’m saying we get a lot of looks because we are a mixed couple in our area. No one deserves to be stereotyped.
@Snowflake, I was just using your comment as an example and you proved my point. White people in this country have the ability to go through life with the blinders on. You can retreat to all white spaces and avoid contact with POC and make assumptions and believe stereotypes about people you never interact with and not think twice about it. Non white peope, especially black people can’t do that. My point was simply white people always want to say someone is playing the race card when a discussion about race becomes uncomfortable for them. For black people it’s not a card, it’s our lives and existence.
And I’m glad dating someone part black enlightened you but that also proves my point. Had you not started dating that man or moved to another town, odds are you’d probably still be oblivious. Again not a personal knock, just an illustration of what I meant when I said white people tend to go through life with the blinders on when it comes to race in America. It is a generalization but it’s also pretty damn true. Good for the ones who become enlightened but it’s also sad that it tends to take a personal experience for that to happen – because far too many whites don’t see the humanity of black people as a whole, and even when dating and befriending black people it tends to only extend to that person as in they’re a good black – they’re not like other blacks.
Ok
“Besides White people tend to go through life with the blinders on.”
But we’re not overgeneralizing or anything. LOL.
But it is true. White people don’t have to think about race and get to go through life thinking that every time someone brings up race it is to divide people. They don’t seem to understand the subjective and object violence that create systems of institutional racism. They can only seem to relate to me as a black woman once they have a black spouse or a black friend. But you can’t seem to point that shit out without them getting in their feelings.
You can be old and modern; you can be old and have empathy. I have no problem with lifetime membership with some restrictions relevant to being active in the entertainment industry.
My issue is this person is bringing their own biases into how they are perceiving the movie; they aren’t even trying to empathize with a character that thinks differently than them.
Did you ever read the essay, “Black Men and Public Space.” It has to be 25 years old, but it is still good and valid today. The author talks about how people have crossed the street to avoid him, how his friend was delivering a story to his editor in the building where the newspaper was located and he was hunted down by an “ad-hoc posse.”
Now, when he is with scared white people, he whistles classical music so that they know he is no harm. He doesn’t address the unfairness of this – just that he knows that to be black around scared white people with guns is dangerous.
Your comment reminded me of this. It isn’t how people of color dress that makes people treat them differently. It is just that they exist.
All your comments have been spot on, Patty. You always speak so much truth and don’t sugarcoat anything.
Well, at least she watched all of the movies . I will give her that. It still boggles my mind that many voters don’t see every movie.
I haven’t seen most of the movies, so can’t comment, But she’s not wrong about Meryl on the whole. I don’t know about her performance in The Post. I haven’t seen it. I do think she is one of the greatest actresses of all time. BUT she keeps getting nominated every year, and it’s not always deserved. And I do see her acting technique now. I know all of the ways she moves her eyes or tilts her head, on and on. And in some movies I’ve seen with her over the last decade she overacted.
I’m 60; LBJ was president (Nov 63- Jan 69) when I was in grade school, so this woman had got to be with in her 70s or even 80s.
Personally I’m tired of Meryl being nominated just for her existance and brand.
Oscar worthy? I don’t’ know what that means anymore.
She’s totally wrong on everything, except for Call Me By Your Name – that’s the vibe I got from it. I couldn’t get past it – Hammer really looks way older and Chamelet looks llike a child. It creeped me out, it’s almost as creepy as American Beauty.
Can we please not paint every old person as some out of touch person who needs to be replaced by someone young and fresh?? I know lots and lots of old people who are lots more intuitive, creative thinkers, bright, intellectually interested and wise than many young people I know.
It is not age that makes this woman a horror. It is her narrow-mindedness and that comes in all ages.
I loved Get Out. However, I didn’t have the feeling of this is the amaze-balls movie of the year with a side of awesomesauce (quoting my son’s expression for great, great things). I didnt find Darkest hour all that enlightening..and if you’re going to make a period piece, it better have some draw to it IMO.
Tha being said, in the break room at work (where the magnificent completely necessary coffee is located) I did hear some discussing the Oscars. I overheard “If Get Out doesn’t win, it’s because Trump is president and the country is racist.” I haven’t heard, read, or sensed it from the cast and crew in interviews, but it is an attitude going around.
Get out doesn’t deserve any Oscar’s sorry, it is not good enough film.
I guess she feels about ‘Get Out’ the same way I feel about Gweneth Paltrow’s performance in Shakespeare in Love-nice but not Oscar worthy. And BTW if you’re not racist you can comfortable not vote for it and your conscience won’t bother you…you can’t possible like every movie, really it’s not that deep.
I am sure POC are sick of the race card being played every day too. You know every time someone is pulled over because of being a POC? Or when they are passed over for hiring or a promotion for being a POC? Or hmmm, let’s see when you have to have a equity/inclusion rider. Yep. Sick of the race card. Hey, Old, White Oscar Voter – why don’t you channel that angst into becoming a WHITE ALLY.