Before Prince William and Duchess Kate announced Prince Lou’s name this morning, William tagged along to one of Harry’s events. It happened yesterday evening in London: Harry was scheduled to open the Greenhouse Sports Centre in Marylebone, and at the very last minute, William was confirmed as a tag-along. Maybe William just wanted to get out of the house/palace? With three kids under the age of five, I guess who could blame him? But still, I’m absolutely shocked that William is not away on holiday somewhere, getting full use out of the “paternity leave” excuse. Perhaps that’s his summer plan. Meanwhile, on the eve of the baby-name announcement, the Daily Mail’s Richard Kay made some interesting observations about why Charles hadn’t stopped by Kensington Palace to see his new grandson, even four days after the birth (you can read the full piece here):
When George was born: On the day Kate’s labour began at St Mary’s Hospital in Paddington, Charles was on a train en route to a day of engagements. He had offered to cancel his duties, but was assured it was not necessary because William did not want visitors to come to the hospital immediately, fearing they would be disruptive. Instead, George’s first visitors were the Middletons, which established a pattern that, tellingly, repeated itself this week.
When Charlotte was born: When Kate’s due date with Princess Charlotte emerged, the same instruction not to visit and not to cancel engagements followed. But as a royal aide noted: ‘The Middletons don’t do engagements, so it didn’t apply to them.’ In the event, Charlotte was born at the weekend and Kate quickly went home to Kensington Palace. When it became clear to Charles that the Middletons would be visiting, he made an immediate decision to go, driving himself and Camilla from Highgrove.
Charles wanted to keep up with the Middletons: According to a friend, he felt it would ‘look awful’ if he didn’t visit his new granddaughter at the same time as the Middletons. He was said to have ‘hared’ down the motorway to London, and even radioed ahead to London for an aide to collect a gift from Clarence House which Camilla had chosen for the baby, to be sent over to Kensington Palace. In the event, Granny Carole and Grandpa Charles arrived at the palace almost at the same time.
William is a brat: ‘When it suits him, William can be friendly and welcoming, but he can also be aloof and icy,’ says a close figure. ‘With his father, he can be cordial or effusive, especially if he wants more money, as he did for work on Anmer Hall – his house in Norfolk. He dispenses niceties like he is the owner of a sweet shop to a small child.’
William complained about Charles using a photo of George on his desk: Nothing illustrates this wilful approach better than William’s reaction after Charles included a picture on his desk of him with George – alongside photographs of William and Harry – for one of the regular in-house videos the Prince of Wales makes for his charities in Commonwealth countries. William complained bitterly, even though the picture was one that had been issued publicly.
William is a Middleton: Nor, say friends, has he made any secret of the fact that he views the relationship that Carole and Mike Middleton enjoy with their children as being just what he covets for his own family. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that he doesn’t think he has had that kind of relationship with his father. For Charles, who wants only to be a mentor and sounding board for his sons and his grandchildren, it is not just a puzzling situation. It is also a sad one.
I tend to believe that this was Charles – by way of Richard Kay – putting William on notice to a certain extent. This was Charles telling William: you’re a father of three now and you’re still living off my largesse, so you better behave and stop with all of the Middleton nonsense. Or maybe I’m reading it the wrong way. Maybe this isn’t Charles messaging anything to William beyond “IDGAF anymore.” The way Charles went back to Scotland after his trip to France for Anzac Day was really interesting – almost like Charles has just given up, like he doesn’t even give a sh-t anymore.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
the windsors (i.e Hanoverian/Saxe Colburg) are always antagonistic towards their heirs and vice versa
it really does seem that way, from what I’ve read of them since the Georges (Hanoverians) took over!
Didn’t Charles famously not get along with his own father? Yet, it seems like he may have made the same mistakes in his relationship with his own son.
Not a lot of boys enjoy watching their father treat their mother terribly.
William believes if Charles had have been better to Diana, she wouldn’t be dead. It’s not surprising he’d hold some resentment.
Well, Phillip was a notoriously shitty dad to him, so there’s that.
From what I’ve read Charles and his mum didn’t (maybe still) have a close relationship, but I was always under the impression Phillip and Charles are close and always have been.
Philip was born on a kitchen table, abandoned by his father, mother put in an asylum at one point. Ended up like an orphan living off the good graces of his UK relatives. He learned you survive by just getting on with it and surviving. He was essentially homeless and is said to consider Her Majesty his “home”. Had to use his mother’s one remaining thing of value, her tiara, to make HM’s engagement ring and wedding present, because he had no money in the bank.
He was a man of a certain era, Phil the Greek, gritting his teeth while walking two steps behind his wife, and decided to raise the future king His Way. Send him to Gordonston, toughen him up, require Charles to learn to survive as he did.
Was that the best way to raise Charles, who is uber sensitive? He’s ended up as the most useful, productive Prince of Wales in history. Ultimately much of Charles’s work (sustainable agriculture, making historic estates be self-supporting, career training), are inspired by projects Philip did.
Very different situation to be in, where Charles has a son who goes out of his way to disrespect him frequently.
Philip was a different father to Edward, the baby and his favorite. He was in a different place in life, in their marriage, in his role. And this son wasn’t the future heir. Philip went a completely different direction in raising him, and as a result, Edward was allowed to fail at pretty much everything.
Amazed Charles doesn’t resent Edward instead of Andrew. Speaks to Charles and Philip reaching detente and peace through the years.
@Whatabout,
Yep, when it comes to Charles and both parents, words like distant and prickly are used.
I also agree with the sentiment that the relationships between sovereigns and their heirs are often difficult.
Theres a lot only here to support the narrative of Charles being a bad dad and grandfather. He never visits. Never hugs. The reality feels more to favor he just doesn’t showboat showboat it. George always has appeared very comfortable with Charles and Charlotte too. Not something that happens when he’s never around.
But William put his own spin on it and hated his father first. He really sounds like a petulant teen here, doesn’t he? Maybe he can sort out his daddy issues in counseling. I’m not just being snarky here, I really think it would help him be the father he wants to be if he can get along better with his own.
Not only that, but William’s own children will be affected by his dysfunctional relationship with Charles.
A trio of workshy, royal Howard Hugheses.
The relationship between a child and their parent is very, very different than between a child and their grandparent. Not sure the right place to place the focus or the blame is on the child.
The Windsors are most certainly all emotionally stunted humans and any immature behavior by any of them is not surprising to me in the least. You cannot be born and grow up for generations in a lifestyle like that and not have some long stemming issues.
@ccc8888, word. I think that regardless of family issues, when you grow up, you work through them, at least on your end, no? I generally fall on the side of children when it comes to how much access grandparents have with their grandkids, but I think it speaks poorly of William that he only shows up for his father when he wants money and not at any other time.
@queenE that name was changed over100 years ago and ths last 10 generations have been born in the Uk. Time to let it drop methinks
Spider: irrespective of the name change, the behaviour remains. It’s a detail very particular to the Hanoverian saxe coburg Windsors. Only 2 pairs of sovereign/heir pairs in the entire line didn’t show this behaviour namely George 4 and his heir Charlotte as well as the current Queen and her father. George 4 mostly ignored Charlotte, but didn’t actively dislike her. It’s been loathing and or outright hatred between the rest for over 300yrs.
Sorry you need to explain thate
@Not a – Exactly. Huge thumbs up.
I don’t know how these people survive in this fishbowl with strangers constantly up in their business
Easy, they get everything paid for and have never had to do a days actual work in their lives. They have every luxury at their whims. When they really want privacy they get it. It’s not that hard.
But Clare, my impression is they can never win. Oh wait, they’re too busy crying into their money to care.
I with you OnSet, why would anyone want to be part of the Royal Family? Especially after seeing what Dianna was put through by the media. No amount of money is worth it for me personally.
They have plenty of expensive, vast places to hide. And they get enormous privilege. Spend an hour at a charity being fawned upon = work.
Oh you mean the media that Diana herself called to pap her or the media she gave stories to. Including stories about other family members?! William (and Charles) learnt that lesson from her.
Yes. Their “work” is a joke. Pampered poodles, all of them.
That’s absolute blatant rubbish. The Queen and Phillip work very,very hard. Charles has had to carve out a meaningful life for himself with all his good works in farming, and looking after the environment. I’ve no time for Andrew but Edward and his wife are always busy and Princess Anne is incredible. I’m not fond of William but Harry is amazing with all he takes on.All the Royal men have served in the military,not an easy task, so why should they be criticized by people who probably were never prepared to defend their country. Royal bashing seems to be clearly down class lines,except that on big events, thousand upon thousands of people come out to take part and cheer. Only the miserable minority’s get onto social media to gripe. I wouldn’t want their life,always being griped about, having to open events, attend parades,visit hospitals and be a visible presence, no saying no if they’ve got an off day. I’m British but have lived abroad for 50 years now. Maybe because of that I can see clearly what an asset to Britain they are, how they define it so much more than its cheap celebrities, who earn millions more and yet are worshipped. (Katie Price, etc)
I agree it is not easy living in a fish bowl and the burdens that go with it. Just because you are rich doesn’t mean that you don’t have feelings. The RF are very popular and have a huge amount of support locally and internationally. They want to do their duty, not one of them really wants to drop the ball and break with tradition. They are human beings and they would definitely prefer to be living ordinary lives. I feel for them.
Looooooooll !!!!!! You feel sorry for them ??!!! Really !!?? They have everything paid for . They get 3 million pounds for redecorating for every kid they push out. They get 420 million for renovating Buckingham. All from tax payers . And all they have to do is to shame us by snobbing us, refusing to get an education many of us can only dream of ( both Will not and Harry were poor students who got passed because of who they were and Waitykatie is still famous for her copy/paste assessments), showing up to trying to read some speech written for them once in a blue moon…and don’t even start me on Diana and her string of lovers,the families she broke ( ask Julia Darling and her kids how much she loves that stinky whore), how she played the media card, and her famous friendship with Mother Theresa who was a missionary (Look up the term in a dictionary) .Charles had always and only been after Camilla when Diana had her fare share of intrigues and shaming the RF for not giving her her dream fairy tale. Lol ! Diana thought she could get it all, fame,money and glory and all that came crashing hard literally.well you get what you sow. And her kids didn’tlearn the lesson and still take everything for granted. Yeah I feel for them …. not at all
I agree 100%
I am sad for the kids that, for whatever reason, they are missing out on a more normal grandparent relationship. The Queen and DOE seem to have managed to be supportive grandparents, within the confines of their role in the Firm. I believe that Charles could also manage both roles. So that leaves me thinking this is all on William. I think this will end up biting him later, as George especially will need the mentorship of the older generations. So few people understand the burden (and the benefits) of the position these kids are in. They need all the people they can get in their corner.
Relationships are two-way streets.
Yeah, all of this just makes me sad. I imagine there are a lot of old family issues and resentments and those can be hard to overcome.
I’ve also noticed that many people who aren’t great parents make great grandparents, but they’ve burned the bridge with their children and don’t get that chance. A good lesson for all of us, I think, to not think that we get a “second chance” when the next generation comes around.
This is very true. My mom didn’t have the happiest of childhoods, but her parents (my grandparents) were absolutely wonderful to all of us grands.
While I don’t care for Charles, I think I care for William less. He always comes of as a spoiled baby.
@ Millenial : I once worked for a child protection agency and there were cases where we apprehended from the (terrible) parents (drugs, booze) and placed the kids with the grandparents. Some of these people were bad parents but they learn from their mistakes. They got older, wiser and became better at parenting or caregiving. Some don’t but some do.
Agree, Millennial! It’s hard. My mom was raised in a pretty dysfunctional home. She wants nothing more than to be a sweet grandma to my kids, but she never learned what normal loving relationships are like. As a result my kids’ visits with her can be stiff and awkward (not even getting into my own baggage with her.) There’s a lot of tentative gestures and full-on retreat. It’s exhausting. I know I’m projecting, but I really imagine that this is the situation with Charles/William/grandkids. And while I feel for poor Charles I also can’t blame the new parents for preferring the Middletons if their interactions are more warm and natural.
This is not all on William. Family relationships and drama are always complicated and never one-sided. I’m fact, I tend to side with children over parents, but I realize that is because of my own background and prejudices. Regardless, none of us knows their dynamic or the reasons behind it, and should not judge either side. And FWIW, why are we trusting the DM says anyway? There is a reason people call them the daily fail.
Richard Kay seems to have really good sources. He is probably the only writer over there with any credibility when it comes to the royals.
It came via Richard Kay, which gives it much more weight than say, Sebastian Shakespeare.
^ Or Katie Nicholls.
All royal writers are credible as far as they’re not writing about Meghan.
@Bessy – LOL, yes indeed, i have noticed this too 😉
@bessy
They’re credible only if they’re writing positive things about Meghan. They’re not credible if they’re writing non-positive things about her. 😉
Chucky must be jealous. William and Harry have normal wives and public approval and the Queen seems to love them. His kids were more mature than him the second Diana died…
I think that Richard Kay has good sources and I tend to find his stories credible, but every now and again he writes stories that look like he is just meeting his contractual obligation to the Daily Mail and this to me is one of those articles.
That was my first thought at the headline, it’s from the Daily Mail, so no thanks. I have some family, of the in-law variety, in the same situation. The birth mom died in a car accident and the step-mom was already in place, due to their affair while married to others. He’s nice to his dad, but is much closer to us. The step-mom is okay-ish, but she puts down the son at times. My read is resentments about his dad having a previous life. He doesn’t cut the dad and step-mom out of his life, but he was immediately welcome and we are strongly into unconditional love, communication and close-knit family ties. I’m not saying this is what is happening here, but I know how complex it can be. If this is Charles driving the article, and I think it is, that shows where their relationship is and I don’t think he’s ever matured much and still feels sorry for his portrayal in the divorce.
I wasn’t researching, but came across this today: Their divorce was finalized in August 1996, but some drama surrounding her title ensued. Queen Elizabeth reportedly wanted to let Diana keep the style of her royal highness, but Charles was “adamant” that she give it up — instead, she was given the title Diana, Princess of Wales. The loss of the honorific separated Diana from the rest of the family in such a way that she had to curtsy to those that had it, including her own children. Heartbreakingly, a 14-year-old Prince William is said to have comforted his mother after the loss of her title by saying, “Don’t worry, Mummy, I will give it back to you one day when I am king.”
@Lilly, Divorces are messy and if the couple are not well disciplined, there’s a lot of mudslinging that goes on. There’s not doubt in my mimd that PoW PR machine was juvenile compared to that of Lady Diana Prss of W and I’m taking this account of events with a grain of salt. I’ve read rumors (on a couple MBs) that the agreement between Lady Diana and prince Charles were that she was going to lose the HRH title but retain the princess of Wales in exchange for a substantial amount of money. Now whether that is true or not, I have no idea because we don’t have all the details of the divorce settlement. However, I’m guessing that since they both were high profile figures, they both must have had a bunch of lawyers on either side who each shrewdly negotiated for the best portion for their client. With this in mind, I believe the loss of HRH but retaining princes of Wales would have been mutual since Lady Diana became both HRH and Princes of Wales by virtue of marriage which probably meant that if marriage was being resolved she would have no claim to either title, IDK for sure.
Another thing to consider is that curtsying is by choice. Example, on one of HM’s visits to Australia, the Australian PM did not curtsy to TQ. In response to all her critics for not curtsying, the PM argued that one chooses to curtsy or to just bow, whichever works for one, and she bowed which, she felt, was what worked for her. Now, lady Diana knew this fact and I doubt she fretted over curtsying to any member of the BRF, she could have chose to do so or not to do so if ever she met any of them anywhere. Consider this video below in which when William is being introduced at the ANZAC service, only one person curtsied to him while the rest of them didn’t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu1uawjnido
George and Charlotte seem to have a conventional grandparent relationship with the Middletons. Carole has taken George out on her own many many times (to the beach, to the playground, picked him up from preschool earlier this week). If anything I think Carole is the quintessential grandparent that we are all used to seeing, that has established enough of a relationship with the grandkids that they can be left alone with her without feeling awkward. I think that kinda comes with being a normal person and not raised royal, like Charles was. While William was close to the Queen in a formal way I really doubt the Queen was the type to get on the floor and play with him when he was little, and I guarantee she never drove him home from preschool in her car. William is probably seeing what a hands on Grandma looks like for the first time and finds it new and intriguing.
Agree Someone. They are all a “victim” of the protocols of being royal. I suspect William is looking at the Middletons for parenting instruction. Sent off to boarding school doesn’t teach you how to parent your own children. Can;t fault him for that really. Charles doesn’t have that model either, so he’s likely not the best grandparent.
How to raise workshy, lifelong adolescent children who cannot survive away from the money mummy, daddy, and uncle gary give them?
The issue is that George will need to learn his role somewhere and I think Wills is a terrible example. George is not going to have a normal life. Keeping him sheltered as they do, and away from Charles, will hurt him when he is old wnoughto see what the expectations on him are.
I honestly think after the Queen dies, the family will be way scaled down. People hate Camilla still and william is just so,lazy!!
Charles has also raised workshy lifelong adolescent children who cannot survive without daddy’s money. At least with the Midd’s the kids get to experience a relatively normal grandparent/child relationship, something they can’t have with Charles who is too busy to spend much time with them.
Charles is working, keeping alive the family firm that pays for every penny W&K spend. From the stream of stories we’ve gotten through the years – from Charles mouthpieces – he wants to spend time with the grandkids. But W&K aren’t letting him. Same games Diana played all those years ago.
As for maturity level? William remains a manchild, Harry not. From the comments of his co-workers and superiors, Harry was full-on committed to the Army for 10 years. He created his own nonprofit at 10, it stumbled, now it thrives.
With William it was years of moving from place to place, and stories direct from co-workers about how he was a slacker. The only ongoing charity he hasn’t flaked on is Jecca’s.
If they had to become normal tomorrow, Harry would survive.
Yeah mentorship, george better get it from chuckles as william surely does not have a clue about being a working heir.
Charles for all his hard work and successful initiatives is a significantly less popular heir than William, so Charles being the better mentor is not a given. I think that Charles is a good mentor and role model when it comes to either getting things done either directly or through other people, but he is not the holy grail of being royal.
How is William popular? He is only ‘popular’ because of the way Charles treated his mother. I don’ think that William has done or said anything to make him popular. If the Diana situation was taken out of the situation Charles has all of the accoutrements to be a very popular King.
i can believe it about william. he prefers his inlaws for sure and has made no secret about that – he knows that he can keep holding how charles treated diana over his head and make charles feel guilty for that no matter how long it takes. that is why his wedding his choice of kids name etc all have a pro diana tint to it. but william is still an idiot cos he still hasnt learned that he is part of the royal family and that no matter what he thinks abt daddy dearest the money is coming from dad who is working a lot more than william and kate ever have. i know that kate has kids which is fair enough but she hasnt exactly shown her willingness to adjust herself and neither has william. very disappointed in william is behaving
I agree. William is a slacker and petulant to boot all this talk if bypassing Charles uis rubbish.hes got much more loyalty to Britain and the position than William who has openly admitted as much.William has a lot of growing up to do
It’s hard to follow the details as translated through multiple sources. Charles was told that he didn’t need to alter his schedule and not to go to the hospital? But does that include once they go back to Kensington? Because to me, those are two very separate sets of instructions.
For the first set of kids, Charles saw them at KP. He didn’t go to the hospital.
Meanwhile the Middleton parents went to the hospital within hours of the birth of the first kid and were seen driving into KP within a few hours of the second kid arriving at KP.
It seems Charles is told to stay away from the hospital, and waits to be invited to KP. For years it’s been clear that he waits on William rather than the other way round. They don’t have the same easy relationship he has with Harry. I don’t think he will wait on Harry. He will be there like a shot regardless of an invitation.
I agree. As it’s likely that Harry and Meghan will have children shortly, we shall see Charles have a much closer relationship with them.
No, Charles and Camilla definitely went to the Lindo Wing with George. I think the Middletons were still first though.
I can understand her parents being there, and Charles meeting the baby later. Birth is pretty physically traumatic for the mother and I can’t imagine wanting my FIL around while I’m still wobbling around trying to have my first post-birth pee. But my mom was right with me. So until Mom has recovered, I get it. I don’t think it’s the big grand diss the media makes it out to be.
@Bridget,
Becks is right, Charles and Camilla visited St. Mary’s when George was born.
A bit off-topic, but quick thank you to @LAK @Nota (@sixer where are youuu??) and the Celebitchy writers, et al for all this insight over the years. I’m American and justify my celeb gossip reading here for its “educational” (lol) value. Y’all make it pretty fascinating. The tiaras are honestly my favorite part, I have read up thoroughly now. All the Brits must find those awful Miss America tiaras just insanely tacky (I’m sure everyone does). But the real stuff, wow.
Mira Bella, thank you, that is very kind. Have you found the Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor blog yet, which is one of my favorites? Her website is a wealth of info about royal fashion and tiaras.
I stand corrected. Thank you all.😊
We’re also getting so much of the Diana spin on this thread. Charles was hands-on with the boys to the point that Diana complained about it. She also pulled tricks where she’d have the boys served dinner early with her, when Charles had arranged his schedule to have dinner with all of them.
William didn’t fall far from the Diana tree when it comes to emotional manipulation, particularly when using children against Charles.
And, it does seem like he was relatively close with them after Diana died. I’m sure there was hurt and anger there, and I’m sure Charles is not extremely emotional or open, but there are enough pictures where they are all smiling and laughing and looking genuinely comfortable with each other, which is hard to fake.
You don’t really see that anymore though with Charles and William.
Chuck always was involved in the boys life, they were all close until the boys became men and went their own ways. While he is still close to Harry, the relationship with William really went sour after he left uni. Its all fine and well that the Mids are a close family unit and thats something that he likes but to go to the lengths of cutting not only his father out but the rest of the family really is something else.
I agree that this article was Charles putting William and the Mids on notice – Chuck is basically going to be Regent now and if the DoLittles want more money to fund their lifestyles then they are going to have to play ball. Charles is not his mother – it will be very interesting to see how things play out when TQ passes. My tin foil tiara prediction is that Chuck will force William and his family out of the line of succession after they fail to step up as Prince/Princess of Wales, making room for Harry and Meghan. He as to know that the Monarchy will die if its left to Williams line. If those kids are being raised the Middleton way, then god help us – you just need to look at Kate, Pippa and James to see the future of the British Monarchy.
I don’t know if he’d push them out, but definitely push them to work harder. That’s why I circle back to the idea that Charles needs to take over all communications and scheduling. Enough of these battling PR courts and setting one’s own schedule. Make work minimums, publish the schedule 6 months out, and if they balk or fail to meet minimums, have consequences. It would have the secondary impact of decreasing costs and eliminating duplication of effort.
I also tend to think something “happened”. Charles seemed close to both boys, then William got married and things seemed to cool off quick. My guess is that Charles doesn’t like the Middletons and made it known.
LOL Charles pushing anyone. You all believe this stuff?
Camilla the current Princess of Wales did 26 engagements in 2018 so far. It’s almost may. He isn’t pushing anyone to work more. Not his wife nor his sons. Charles loves playing the “hard working” royal among the others.
Good point @Ollie. Only 26 engagements so far this year? That’s pretty shocking. William has already done 3 x as many engagements as Camilla so far this year. You’re right though, if he is not pushing Camilla to work more then he is not going to be pushing anyone else.
Charles has far more control over William now than he will when he becomes King because Charles controls the purse strings, William will have his own purse strings when he becomes Duke of Cornwall.
@ Ollie,
+1000!
Not only do I agree that Charles likes playing the “hard working” royal, I think that he prefers to parent by checkbook.
I think that Charles is a loving parent, and tried to be an involved parent until Diana made it difficult for him.
I think that he could have become a more involved parent after Diana’s death but by then William and Harry were in boarding school and the energy that he had to attend to his personal life he chose to spend on Camilla. I think that for Charles it was easy to focus on Camilla because his side of the relationship was to pay her bills and to pay for spin doctors to improve their images, while Camilla part of the relationship was to be available to soothe, mother and buck up Charles.
I don’t think that it is clear cut that Charles has a great relationship with Harry, but I can see that being the case because Harry’s temperament, at least in its current iteration, is more complaisant and deferential.
I used to be a fan of Diana until I saw that documentary where they played the tapes from the Andrew Morton book. She comes across as borderline (personality), a narcissist, a sometimes liar and cold. She didn’t mention her sons at all, IIRC. She’s no saint by any means. I think there could be some degree of parental alienation as well. It really shows in William. She’s been gone 20 years. His only parent deserves more respect that William gives him. Do I think Charles is perfect? Of course not. But I respect his work ethic and the causes he supports. William just seems like a petulant prick most of the time. Is it SO hard to let the grandfather to see the baby? My parents wouldn’t stand for that for .000001 seconds. They’d be in the hospital like a shot. My dad (a physician but not an OB) would probably try to deliver the baby! But I’m really close with them. I dunno. That whole group is a mess.
I’m team Charles on this one. I know I’d be exhausted and totally IDGAF anymore. The description of William could have been that of my sister: pull you close with one hand then push you back with the other. That’s exhausting. You can never please that type of person or even win. So, for me/us, it’s all “you do you and i’ll do” with me no longer going out of my way to appease her or have a relationship with her. Any moves or overtures have to come from her. So, if this is Charles giving William (and Kate) the middle finger and saying I’m done with the games you play then I’m glad for him.
I feel the same way. If he takes the IDGAF approach, he’s won and William no longer has any power over him, and I’d like that. I’m fairly sure Harry won’t play those same games with him and that he’ll see lots of Harry and Meghan and their children.
i think that having carole middleton influencing william and kate shows how weak willaim appears to be – whether he likes his dad or not he is still the prince of wales and he needs a working relationship which he doesnt seem to have with charles – maybe if carole middleton were encouraged not to come over that often and let kate manage her life and her kids things would be better
Honestly, I just think Charles generally wants to spend his time with Camilla and William wants to spend his time with the Middletons. If they have to do some multi-generational photo ops, they will.
I think you have it. The Middleton’s get a lot of flak here, but I think it’s great they weren’t shoved to the back burner like the families of everyone else who married in (I realize that might not be the reality, but it’s certainly the perception). Maybe with her family as a good support system for her, Kate &Wilkiam’s marriage will actually last.
The other families are welcomed if they keep their mouths shut and do not trade on the royal connection for fame and money (a la the Middletons and Charles Spencer). Sophie’s father has spent holidays with the Queen for years, quietly welcomed because he doesn’t splash it all over the papers.
With the royal family, William is someone who never lives up to his responsibilities, who isn’t top dog, and Willy the Whinger doesn’t like that. William chooses to be with the Middletons, who treat him like King William, do everything for him, and let him get away with his behavior. Like dumping the wife and kids on the in-laws frequently while he goes off and does whatever he wants.
@ Nota, yeah like Meghan Markle’s family.
Like her mother and father, both of whom have said nothing aside from a joint statement about the engagement?
Or the disturbed, jealous, estranged 16-years-older half-sister who has never been part of her life?
I expect Doria to be welcomed by Charles and the royal family because she is being the soul of discretion. Her father would be welcomed too if he wants it, but he seems to want to avoid anything that raises his profile.
Nota, family is family. No need separating Meghan’s siblings from her parents, especially since you routinely bring up ‘Kate Middleton’s’ dodgy uncle. And honestly, I’d pick the Middletons over Meghan’s.
I’d pick Doria. I’m not that into wearing pinky rings.
Meghan didn’t take favors from her dodgy Markle relatives. That’s part of the reason Uncle Gary keeps being mentioned.
If Will prefers to spend time with his in laws, i think its a testament to them and the relationship they’ve been able to build over the years. If anything its reflects badly upon Charles’ parental skills that his son doesn’t want to spend much time with him.
Then again, i wonder how much truth there is in this story, given that he has just named his son after his dad, but stories about happy families don’t sell papers..
Or course Kate and William’s marriage will last lol. Where would Kate and Middletons “go”?
while i think Doria looks like a wonderful lady, i think i would pick the Middletons too, they seem like a really tight knit family. Even fame hungry Pippa is no match for Meghan’s half sister, yikes ! Poor Meghan must be mortified, i really hope none of them turn up as “commentator” to her wedding.
Natalie, in that case I’d pick Kate’s dad. And I’m not fan of pinky rings OR coats of arms.
The Middletons treat William like King William, bow and scrape, and let him live like a single man whenever he wants. The family that has planned and paid for William’s vacations for the last 15 years. Of course lazy, cheapskate William would prefer that to a family that involves the work responsibilities he hates.
Bees, the family you embrace vs the family you personally cut off makes a difference.
The Middletons openly embrace Dodgy Uncle, live off him, used his money for years, vacationed with him at Maison de Bang Bang. William played PR games to take the heat off Uncle Gary’s drug sting.
vs. Charles Spencer being paid to do tv work for a royal wedding (Fergie and Andrew or Edward and Sophie?), abandoning Diana when she needed him by refusing to let her live at Althorp after the divorce, using his sister’s memory for PR and money for two decades. He’s pretty much been cut off by William and Harry. Harry is close with the Spencer aunts and cousins, but Earl Spencer is cut off.
@Bees. Speaking of Coats of Arms, are you a fan of skiing?
I am, actually. I’ll admit, the Middletons seem like they could be fun in small doses.
But I’d be out of there when they started with their imitations of being royal or an aristocrat, like that shoot they put together for William.
@nota – I had forgotten what a sleaze Earl Spencer is… good points…
William clearly likes the Middletons but I wonder how much Kate likes Charles? It seems like a lot of times after marriage the wife sets the tone with the husband’s family and determines the involvement of the husband’s extended family. If there are invitations to private family events the wife usually does the arranging and planning and inviting. If Kate wanted things better between Will and Charles she could easily make it happen – that’s why I think Kate doesn’t care if they are close to Charles, for some reason.
Then again, William might be a bit of the histrionic personality (and maybe a touch borderline personality) like Diana was and Kate may have her hands full just dealing with him without taking on the Charles issue…..
Carole is the duct tape that keeps the W&K relationship together, for better or for worse, and has been for years. Without her constant interference and cheese toast making for her darling willy, this college romance would have died swiftly.
I don’t know why women are always placed as the family gatekeepers for peacemakers. If William wants to see his dad he will. That’s on him, not kate.
@Danielle, my thoughts exactly. This isn’t on Kate.
kate doesnt like charles or more importantly she doesnt care for camilla – i never see them together
@ minx,
I think you nailed it, both Charles and William are living the lives they wants to lead. In Charles’ case, it is his work, his interests with Camilla being there to cheer him on and buck him up.
In William’s case, it is his family life, his leisure pursuits and trying to define his role as heir and “royalize” the areas that interests him.
I honestly think there is some unknown gossip here. Something went down. Or things.
Am with you. I was also sensing a weird vibe btwn will and harry on the last engagaement.
Spot on Amy! I noticed that too! There are tensions going on behind the scenes. Harry was very subdued. William was not supposed to be at that last engagement, it should just have been Harry. Why did William step in? Two of them were not needed and Harry did the speech anyway. And William was his usual snide snarky self when asked if he was happy to be best man, he turned around and grinned and said, ” Revenge time”….🙄….Why Oh why can’t William just say something nice when it comes to Harry without turning it into a joke. William in my view is very passive aggressive, especially towards his younger and much more popular and charming brother. I am hoping that Meghan will help prevent William undermining Harry.
It’s not surprising this father-son relationship has turned out this way. From everything we have read, it was William who comforted Diana when she was in distress. He must have known what was going on in his parent’s marriage and decided to side with his mother. Harry, I think to some extent, was shielded from the fallout of the marriage because he was younger.
William and Harry were at boarding school during the War of the Waleses.
Always find this interesting, Oh Poor William seeing the dangers of cheating (as both his parents cheated). Yet he cheated constantly on Kate Middleton, even got with her bed-wise through cheating, as he kept dating his public girlfriend for months afterwards. William has also taken to throwing Diana under the bus in his quest to Never Work.
IMO William only cares about how things impact him, not how they impacted people around him.
William lives in the house that was notorious for Charles/Camilla trysts.
He is also besties with the family that sided with Camilla against his mother. To extent that one of the sons is George’s godfather.
These two facts always get me. If you had a problem with infidelity, you wouldn’t raise your kids in the house where your father and step-mother had their relationship. If he had refused Anmer, they would have found him a different country house. But he chose to accept Anmer.
Yes LAK and Notasugarhere, these two points have left me dumbstruck in ways and I thought it was just me. As you say, these should be sore points for William. But then maybe he is stuck there, returning to ‘the scene of the crime,’ to try to sort it out on some psychological level?
Was Anmer chosen because it is more remote ie not easy for prying press to see what WK are up to? That seems to be William’s aim: to do what he wants on someone else’s money (Charles or public) without being observed.
There are other properties at Sandringham, including Wood Farm which was empty until Prince Philip moved in last year. If he had a moral objection to Anmer, a different house would have been found that was just as private.
At some points in our lives we all have love/hate relationships with our parents
The gossip media sometimes acts like William & Harry only had one parent, Diana. But William named his new born son Louis Arthur Charles. This name must mean a great deal to him to name him after his father. I am sure Kate drives the relationship between her parents and William to be a positive and this has nothing to do with Charles. There is no competition, only competition between the two families are at the Daily Mail.
Absolutely. Happy families don’t drive website traffic.
I agree with this. Each adult child is responsible for their relationship with their parents. It is completely unfair, and typical, to blame the wife if her husband has a less than perfect relationship with either of his parents or other relatives. Those relationships were well in place long before William and Kate married.
This irks me on a personal level because I think that my FIL blames me for the lack of interest his son, my husband, takes on spending time with him. It has nothing to do with me. My husband can visit his father as often as he wishe. I certainly maintained contact with my parents when they were alive without my husband at my side overseeing it. It does have to be something that is important to b the adult child. It was too me and I made time for them. Often I visited alone because my husband had other things that he would rather do. If he now wants to visit his parents alone, there are a lot of things i would rather do by myself in that time. He chooses not to do that. Is that my fault somehow? His relationship with his father was never great thanks to an early divorce between parents with cheating and remarriage to said mistress. Further, FIL fundamentally preferred his first son that idolized him to my husband. I’m rambling and aggravated. I will Stop now.
Projecting? Yes, probably. It just drives me crazy.
william stuck the word charles for the new baby as a token and r\probably because quite a few people were wondering if charles would be involved –
Remember when he rang up a Mustique owner for a free villa to holiday in?
I bet he is super nice to the Grosvenors. Free jets are essential to his life!!!
Yes, and now he can lean on India Hicks for access to her Bahamas mansion because, hey look, named my son after your grandpop.
Remembering W&K approaching Charles for money for the $100,000 tennis court in the middle of a public engagement.
I’d forgotten about India, but yes.
And yes vis a vis the tennis court that took land from a tenant farmer.
Yes and am sure he is super nice to the Matthews for freebie to their luxury hotel.
@Nota: I hadn’t heard the story about the tennis court and a public engagement. Do tell?
iirc it was a church service attended by loads of royals.
I hadn’t heard the tennis court story either, that is some interesting tea.
Wales v Wales part deux? lol
I’d love to see how Wiliam reacts if/when Charles starts financially and publicly favouring Harry and Meghan. They make good PR and Harry seems like less of a twat towards his family.
With the exception of George 4 and Princess Charlotte of Wales as well as the Queen and her father, the entire Hanoverian line starting with George 1 have been at odds with their heirs. Parent and child hated and fought each other publicly.
Willian must be heard during all his life that his father had more important things to do than spending time with him. Now because Charles is getting older, he probably wants to play the great father/grandfather game and Willian is not having any of it. I really doubt that him and Harry doesn’t have some sort of sadness for their mother not being there anymore and having to deal with Camila. I’ve seen too many parents that were not good ones, even abusive, but after they got old, they thought their children had to take care of them and meet their needs.
Diana was known for changing up the family schedule last minute to exclude Charles starting when the boys were very young. Her PR games were public too. She urged Charles to go to his scheduled event when one of the boys had surgery, then Diana played the Evil Charles Doesn’t Care About Our Sons card publicly. So much of the residual ideas of Bad Parent Charles are based in Diana’s games, not fact.
Maybe I’m jaded but I don’t think the dynamic sounds much different from lots of families of divorce. There are often resentments and grudges. If they can be civil at all, good for them. My family actually has no divorces but half of us are barely speaking to the other half.
Sounds like my family also. Several of the siblings actually moved from the state and let the rest of us know by Xmas card. Families = they which buttons to push because they installed them. Thankfully my life isn’t all over the Net.
William and Harry were in boarding school since age 8. Diana played lots of public games to make herself appear hands on whilst obscuring the fact that her children were away in boarding school.
LAK I was already in boarding school at 8, too. That doesn’t mean the dysfunction didn’t go with me to the dormitory, or that it wasn’t waiting for me when I went home for holidays. And Charles and Diana weren’t unknown like my family, and I would assume their kids heard stuff from their classmates and teachers. I’ll all for calling them out on their laziness or whatever, but blaming William for their dilapidated relationship is well, celebitchy-esque
Point stands. William and Harry were away the majority of the time. They weren’t front and center every day seeing the impact of Charles and Diana’s relationship dissolving. So much of the residual resentment and Charles bashing comes direct from Diana fans believing her lies about that period of time.
William is nearly 36 years old and still acting like a whiny teenager, mad because his parents aren’t letting him do what he wants. He uses his mother as an excuse for his unlawful privacy obsession. He was going after Diana a couple of years ago, all in an attempt to excuse his laziness. Long past time for him to grow up and sort out his serious issues.
Bees: Getting a respite from the dysfunction is what I learnt from going to boarding at 4yrs old. I was very aware of it even at that age, but school was an oasis from it.
In my experience, there were a few kids that reacted like you did, but in the main, most were glad to be away from the dysfunction and only the holidays / impending holidays brought on the stress of having to navigate that dysfunction.
William was born in 1982 and Harry was born in 1985. While there were good times and even love, the Wales marriage was rocky from the start and by 1986 Diana was having an affair with James Hewitt, and Charles undoubtedly had resumed his affair with Camilla, this would have been long before William and Harry started boarding school. I would not be surprised if most of William’s conscious memories of his parents as a couple were of a marriage in disrepair.
Even if Diana and Charles marriage did not become toxic until after William and Harry started boarding school, and I do not think that was the case, some of the antics that they witnessed, particularly by Diana, would be scarring. And Charles did his part after Diana’s death when he used his sons, particularly William’s popularity and Harry’s follies, to rehabilitate his and Camilla’s images.
Charles was raised in the Victorian/Edwardian style in which the aristocrats of that era raised children. So he probably is a bit stiff when it comes to children. Charles also has been totally pampered and may not know how to pamper others. But I think he will try harder with Harry and Meghan’s children.
And why the four-day wait to announce the name when they’ve always announced after two days before? Perhaps they were waiting for Charles to come visit and he decided not to? There seem to be some really hard feelings on either side here 🙁
Partly to keep the press interested (who are actually more interested in Harry’s upcoming wedding), they probably changed the name as Arthur was the press and bookies favourite (and previously the press had been correct with the names – i think) and lastly, he likes trolling the press and public.
I think there was a last minute wobble over the name.
The detail about William wanting more money for Anmer Hall is truly interesting. That sounds like a detail that could have only come from someone inside their circle or Charles. I also wonder why William did not just pay for that on his own. He did not have to pay for the house obviously. I am not try trying to be nasty, just an observation.
William is as emotionally manipulative as Diana ever was, and like with Diana, neither Charles nor HM know how to deal with it.
William is also a known cheapskate. He doesn’t pay for anything, even a engagement ring for his fiancee. W&K leaned on Charles about the $100,000 for the tennis court during a public engagement. W&K wasted loads of money on that house, as they did with Apartment 1A, because they spend money like water when it is someone else’s money.
‘Oh yes Charles, we will use the architect you pay for to build a new sun room to connect the live-in nanny quarters to the house. We will use your money to build a new indoor pool and cover so Katie Keen can sunbathe topless at the house. Yes we will use your money to move the driveway and disrupt church access because we are obsessed with privacy. Yes we will demand $100,000 for a new tennis court. Yes we will have you pay for all of it. Oh you want to see the grandkids? Sorry, nope, we cannot fit that into our busy schedule. And Mummy Carole has that all taken care of, she’s serving the cheese toast right now.’
Or maybe they demanded taxpayer money for the driveway as “security upgrades”…
As one reporter put it, when you see them doing things that cost no money eg budget flights or trains, that means they are spending their own money. Otherwise it’s always someone else’s money.
Lets not forget the £1million upgrade Middleton Manor got all in the name of ‘security’, rumour has it that it was whinging William who demanded that as well as access to royal antique furniture that was in storage.
He found the perfect match with the freeloading Middletons.
wow you guys are on fire today, I bow down!
No kidding @ porcupette! Think I’ve gotten whiplash trying to take this all of this in, before i hit the sack.
I do believe in my heart that William blames Charles for Diana and he never Forgave him.
I don’t want to project much, but William so attached to his mom even more than Harry.
The kind of attachment of first baby, maybe the eldest kid in family will understand what I mean. That special bond with mom.
I am the youngest but always felt there’s is a precious place and relation between mom and my oldest sister. It was special and love to see them both together .
I also do believe William do care about Harry.
The boys were away at boarding school for the majority of the War of the Waleses.
William cheated constantly on Kate Middleton, even cheating on his girlfriend with Kate Middleton. He doesn’t appear to have a problem with infidelity.
Ditto his bashing of Diana a couple years ago, with the whole “she worked too much, she was a bad mother, working parents are bad parents” mantra during the Throne Idle media blitz.
William doesn’t have a problem with X behavior or how it impacted anyone else; he has a problem with how X behavior impacted him. Walking definition of self-absorbed and selfish.
Tell it, nota! This narrative that William was so scarred by Charles’ cheating that he decided to be a better man than him is laughable. He cheated on Kate and with Kate. He lives in Amner. William’s biggest problem is that he is and has always been a brat that has been overindulged to the point that he’s now a petulant adult, who uses his kids as bargaining tools against his family.
Why would you think both his sons have no problem with infidelity? Why do you think they cares only for themselves . Who does that reminds you of?
William is the known cheater, not Harry. It is the tumblr fan fiction that Harry was the cheat. William is, unfortunately, very similar to Diana in temperament. He didn’t get her human touch, her caring, or her work ethic – but he definitely got her whiplash temperament.
Both children had a rough time with the war of the wales. One was coddled and one wasn’t and the results are obvious.
How could you say Harry did not cheat lol he did and will keep cheating. Just like his father.
@notasugarhere
Harry’s no angel either there have been rumors going around for years that he frequently cheated on Chesly and wasn’t he dating Cressida around the time he was pictured butt naked with other girls in a Las Vegas hotel suite? hmmm….
We had multiple, public, photographic proof of William’s cheating plus all the on-record statements from their social group about William’s straying.
Rumors but nothing from Chelsy or from anyone in their set, unlike multiple people talking openly about William. I think Harry dated a lot more than was ever seen, but it was serial short-term monogamy. As for Cressida? I don’t think they were together that long, but dated casually after he returned from deployment (after the Vegas trip).
All we can do is wait and see. We’ve seen that behavior from William for 15 years, even his behavior post-marriage. We’ll see what happens with Harry and Meghan,
Even Stevie Wonder could see that Harry was up to no good in Las Vegas. I’m not saying that William hasn’t cheated but let’s not make Harry out to be an angel.
“As for Cressida? I don’t think they were together that long, but dated casually after he returned from deployment (after the Vegas trip).”
^ hmm, you’re trying to fit that into the narrative you’re trying to push. You say you *think* they didn’t date for long but you don’t actually know for sure, for all you know they could have been dating at the time of the Vegas incident.
Oh and please give proof of William cheating …and I mean actual proof, id love to see it.
My big piece disappeared. It boiled down to, I’ve been watching them for decades and do your own research. Try the archives of the older royal forums, where they saved the photos and full-text stories that disappeared in the great White Washing. Photos of William taking girls to his barracks, KM confronting him in public, other men at the barracks sharing info about the number of women, stories from the set, women openly saying on the record William was a cheat and they weren’t interested in him.
That just isn’t the story with Harry. Plenty of dating, more than we’ll ever know, great non-disclosure agreements, but serial monogamy.
Harry has not cheated on one or more girlfriends, now that is fan fiction!
aaa Harry has only had three public girlfriends, Chelsy, Cressida, Meghan. The cheating stories, for years, with photos and talk from the set, has always been around William not Harry.
We’ll see what happens in the future.
Harry had three public girlfriends and is rumored to have cheated on two of them, when he was with Chelsy he was papped with three different women by Niraj Tanna. I am not saying that William has been completely faithful but your assertions that there is open gossip and photos of William cheating, while Harry’s cheating is tumblr fan fiction is far afield.
All the reporters, biographers and the paps who stalk them, straight up say William has a roving eye, but not Harry. Infact Harry sued the one paper suggested he had cheated on Chelsy and won. This was during a time when he wasn’t beloved by the public and the Palace was allowing negative stories about him to run, and wasn’t invested in covering up his misdeeds.
Now does Harry shag around in between girlfriends? Yes.
His entire circle AND the Bransons are clear that Harry and Cressida were not together at the time he went to Vegas. She was part of his party holiday whilst they were on Necker, but they were just friends at that point. They all insist he got with her after Afghanistan.
NOTA, I’ve just googled and my keyword expertise has failed me. I don’t want to make you do the research but what are the names of the forums you mean? I’d like to browse through those archives but nothing is coming up.
Obviously none of us know the dynamics in that family ( or really ANY family outside of our own ) but a tendency among some parents enduring an unhappy marriage or bitter divorce seems to be bringing the kids –usually the oldest —into a lot of problems that should have remained between the adults.
I have no problem seeing Diana making William her “confident” and putting him in a position no child —of ANY age —should be put in. Now, did she do that spitefully? No. I think Diana was, in many ways, emotionally immature and suffered from not really have a strong support system of her own.
I think Charles is as close to his sons —and his grandchildren –as he knows HOW to be. Charles’ own childhood was …..beyond strange. So how would he magically learn relationship skills?
If you think about it, William never knew a family life that wasn’t fought with drama and tensions. It’s not a stretch for me to see him really craving that “normality” he sees with the Middletons.
Children are blank slates we write upon and, intentionally or not, Diana and Charles both wrote a lot of complicated things on William’s. And yes, I DO think his experience was different from Harry’s in that he was the oldest and was, imo, the one in whom Diana confided.
At the end of the day, he wouldn’t be an heir in this family if he wouldn’t benefit from some pretty intensive therapy. LOL
+1
You said it better than I ever could.
Thanks for your lovely reply, you said some of my thoughts in better way.
+2 well said @Tommy.
Well said Tommy
And the cat’s in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you coming home, dad?
I don’t know when
But we’ll get together then
You know we’ll have a good time then
That’s going to be George’s song someday. 🙁
I’ve always believed wills cosies up to Charles when he wanted money, never thought I’d see the day where the British press actually published it.
I really have to wonder what happened for the press to actually print this. It’s been speculated for a long time now, but this seems like a warning shot to William.
Coming from Richard Kay, a warning shot seems likely.
ITA and its more than keeping the press waiting for the baby name, something has been brewing for a while. This article has to have been given the nod by Chuck or someone close to him.
I agree, Richard is a great source.
William plays a lot of games with the Press. It was a matter of time before they started to tire of them.
I don’t believe this is anything more than another beat up from the Daily Mail. If it was indeed a “warning shot “ from Charles then it confirms that he’s pretty disfunctional as a parent. Surely if there are issues between father and son he should figure out a way to deal with them privately, not through the media.
Exactly, Polly. Well said.
or maybe because he has tried the quiet word with william and william still hasnt listened –
This is just sad to me. I don’t know if William harbors resentment towards his dad for cheating on Diana but Diana was no saint either. She cheated on Charles as well though the argument might be made Charles did it first (which is impossible to know). However this shouldn’t get in the way of Charles spending time with his grandchildren. If Harry and Meghan have children, I really hope they give him easy access to their kids. I’m also secretly hoping it’ll make William look bad.
Diana didn’t cheat until she found out that Charles had never broken ties with The Rotweiller, emotionally and then physically. Even after Diana went to C’s party and asked her to her face to leave her husband alone, and C refused. That’s when Diana started to check out.
Sorry… C may do “good works” with DV charities now, but she is and always will be a POS in my book. And Charles is barely a step above. He is a spoiled, petulant man-child.
And how do you feel about Diana, who constantly targeted married men for her affairs?
Diana had Boatloads of Issues before targeting Charles and going after him in a big way. She went after him because he was the one man in the UK who wasn’t legally allowed to divorce her. She learned.
End of the day, three humans who did and didn’t do great things. All three are at fault.
Diana confronted Camilla in 1989, by then she was on her second, if not third, extra-marital relationship.
Just think if Charles had actually known Diana he wouldn’t have married her.
“I love Balmoral, it’s the best place in the world”. Yet as soon as the ring was on her finger that changed.
A good book to read is by Wendy Berry/their housekeeper. It was banned in the UK. She mentioned Diana was as sweet as pie in public but could be rude to the staff especially her dresser.
Everyone gets amnesia when it comes to the affairs Diana had with married men.
Tracy: i know someone who worked for Diana. She had same experience with her as Wendy. Sweet in public, horror behind closed doors. Sweet to people in her good books, malicious and rude to those who were not.
“Just think if Charles had actually known Diana he wouldn’t have married her.”
Pretty sure that sentiment would work both ways. Doubt Lady Di would have married the two of them, either.
yeah charles is to blame for everything unlike diana who is the saint. the mistake was that charles married diana for his own reasons like she married for her own reasons too. it didnt work out and diana being the savvy princess she was decided to blame charles for everything while she was the one who was cheating on charles as well.
William strikes me as extremely manipulative and shameless and even proud about it as if behaving that way makes him clever and in control. I think he wants everything to revolve around him and his needs.
This is why he showed up last minute to two of Harry’s events this week. He really enjoyed all the attention that came with the birth of the new baby and knew that he would draw focus.
I don’t know how anyone can reasonably explain away the oddness of a father of a new baby showing up to things he didn’t have to attend in the first place. It’s obvious he didn’t care to be around to help Kate, Nanny Maria and Carole with the baby. And really by baby number three Carole should not have to be there to help. Of course she has her own reasons to be there, but this isn’t a new routine for Kate at this point and Carole is there because William isn’t around to help. He shouldn’t be unfamiliar with dealing with infants by baby three. He just doesn’t want to help.
^ Kate let slip at a public event that William wasn’t around much for the first 6 months of George’s life – that tells you all you need to know about him and what he thinks are his priorities. I think Carole being around a lot is not really to support the kids but to support Kate and to keep that marriage going – its long been said that if it Carole hadn’t kept pushing Kate at Wills then they would never have gotten married as he would have moved on. There are many stories of Carole calling William up on one of their many breaks to invite him to family gatherings and then shoving Kate at him.
According to KM’s own words, he disappeared for 5-6 months after George was born. The Middletons let him do whatever he wants, including being away from the Normal Family Unit for stretches of time. As long as he gets what he wants (freedom to live however he wants, often like a single man), they get what they want (money, status).
“The Middletons let him do whatever he wants, including being away from the Normal Family Unit for stretches of time. ”
Let him? Will is a grown man, i’m not sure what you expect the Middletons to do ? Are they supposed to shackle him to the cot? If he doesn’t help out, that is between him and his wife. i wouldn’t expect the in-laws to interfere.
Also i dont see how Will is trading his freedom in exchange of giving the Middletons money and success. Will doesn’t owe his freedom to them, i’m pretty sure he does what he wants and has always done so. Hence whatever money/status you think he is giving to the Middletons, he is giving freely.
William hasn’t traded his freedom; he’s kept it all while getting the PR image of dedicated family man that is so useful in deflecting negative stories about his laziness and wandering eye.
The Middletons choose to let William act like a spoiled child, act like an unmarried man, and escape his responsibilities (both personal and professional). Kate was the only one willing to put up with that kind of bargain, the only one to always Be Waiting and put up with William’s cheating, immature behavior, selfishness. IMO that isn’t in the best interest of anyone in the situation. Not the family, not the kids, not the self-development of the “adults”, and certainly not the nation.
Through this marriage, the Middletons get what they’ve been chasing for years. Status and money. Taxpayer upgrades at their home, taxpayer security for Pippa’s book tour, and the ultimate prize of all the private Windsor lands going to their grandchild. Oh, and all the times they’ve continued to make money off royal-related occasions with their party tat company. Tacky thy name is Middleton. All in exchange for enabling a temperamental ManChild to keep acting like a spoiled brat.
Benefits also include huge discounts on many things including new vehicles. Both Pippa and William were seen driving the new LandRover Discovery this past week.
its long been said that if it Carole hadn’t kept pushing Kate at Wills then they would never have gotten married as he would have moved on.
…
So neither Charles nor the Queen, who are tied to William through blood, the family business and financial support, can get William to do anything that he does not want to do, but Magical Carole Middleton managed to get William the Unwilling to marry her daughter and put her in a position to be his life-long mate, mother of royal heirs and future Queen.
Aaa: it’s been evident for years that William checked out of his family once he went to uni. The Middletons figured out how to keep him onside.
Charles and HM don’t know how to deal with him because he inherited Diana’s temperament which they couldn’t deal with either. Plus he has been using the diana card against them for years. You should follow Darren McGrady on twitter. He was a royal chef in Charles and Diana’s household. Every so often he has a conversation with other people close to / inside the palaces. They all confirm this screwed up situation and why it exists.
They put up with it because he is the heir. They don’t want an abdication on their hands. At least not in their lifetimes. They think that if they placate him and deal softly with him, he will fall in line. So far not working out so well. If the press didn’t cover him, pretty sure he would be worse.
And he baits and switches them all the time. Like the time, 3yrs ago when the palace tried to spin the bad news of his 6M refurbishment of his homes + a new helicopter as necessary because he was going to start royal duties that september only for him to get EAAA to create a job for him and make himself unavailable for royal duties. Whilst keeping the refurbed homes + helicopter. The EAAA job announcement came as a surprise to them. But they fell in line and made it as cushy as possible for him in order to get him back on track.
Philip retiring is the first time in a very long time he didn’t get his way and we all saw the little tantrum he had by having a rival christmas pap stroll with the Middletons complete with the never seen children which pulled focus from the Queen’s own christmas pap stroll.
^This. So much this.
nota, unicorn and lak: still on fire with telling it; prince poor pitiful pearl is so like his mother. It doesn’t bode well.
I agree. He seems like a child.
I think William is self-loathing. He is so much like his father that it probably really bothers him so he punishes his dad by withholding love/kids/family etc.
Get some therapy! Or better yet remove yourself from succesion and live that private life you crave so much.
I think he is more like him mother sans work ethic and looks. lol
Daily Fail LOL
This is a harsh article. I don’t know how much of it is true (it certainly seems there is SOME truth to it, there are never stories of Will and Kate spending time with Charles the way they do with the Middletons, and they don’t seem to go on family vacations together, etc) but the fact that it was written so soon after the baby’s birth is telling to me. William is on thin ice in terms of goodwill with the press, and I feel like this article was because they took “so long” to announce the name of the baby.
I know the financial situation is different with royals, but if I was hitting my parents up for money and then saying “too bad, so sad, you cant come visit the new baby” my parents would stop answering the phone when I called.
It also says a lot about someone if a grandkid is used as a bargaining chip. William’s parents got divorced decades ago and his mom has been dead since 97, and then Charles was the only parent. If William still has issues about his parents’ divorce at 36 then he needs to get psychological counseling. Plenty of people have divorced parents and don’t use their kids as leverage on their parents.
Bingo, Nic!
i think that william has accepted his mom’s death years ago but it is just used when he needs something esp money related. if he was that great why hasnt he pulled his socks up and done what he is supposed to do like taking over more royal duties – esp since his grandfather has retired. he cant have it both ways. i think that charles is just fed up with all this
I always felt eh Cambridge’s lacked goodwill with the press, at least goodwill they truly gained on their own. Most of it is left over Diana goodwill and “future King” goodwill but I do think they will get irritated and are getting irritated with the family.
As for the money, It pissed me off beyond words when they wasted millions on renovating not one but TWO of their homes in a short period of time. Charles controls the money so I do not doubt William buttered him up to get more. However, it’s pretty obvious he does not have a relationship with his grand children. he probably sees them when we see them.
Carole on the other hand is living at KP! Go Figure!
@LEYTON, I felt that the Cambridge’s lack respect not goodwill. They are popular I guess around the globe with those who know who they are but they don’t garner respect. Whenever they go on foreign tours does their host web respect them?
Charles maintains a separate home for Camilla too, where she goes to relax from his rigid ways and see her own grandchildren.
I will never feel sorry for Prince Charles. Ever. William has his own money from Diana, he will have more money than Prince Charles when he becomes the Prince of Wales. Full stop. William needs to grow up, but please don’t ever feel sorry for Prince Charles.
Thank you, I am some how. In the middle of this article I do believe William is abusing his father. As away of revenge . You know when we grow older and with more power we tend to hit back at the people who hurt us in different way. I think William is abusing his father emotionally an d act selfish just like Charles did . Harry also was and still doing what he wants,
I think Charles could not control his boys now or even when will becomes a king.
william has money that is great but charles pays a lot esp for kate’s clothes – if he stops paying for it then will william step up and do that on a weekly basis ? i doubt that –
William has zero respect for Charles and Charles still tries to use William for good press.
Is that why one of the new baby’s names is Charles?
Charles seems to have a much better relationship with Harry. Can’t you see Camilla & Doria bonding over grandchildren? Maybe Charles is like fine – I’ll get the relationship I’d like to have with grandchildren when Harry & Meghan have kids…
Given Charles’ tendency to slip in racist remarks, i don’t see him getting along all that well with Doria. I hope she keeps the hell away from them lot. Meghan gets a pass since she looks more White than Black, but the same privilege may not be extended to her mum.
Honestly, i can see it go both ways. Charles seems really supportive of Harry and Harry with him. It was reported that Charles and Camila were there during Meghan’s baptism for instance. I think Charles will have a closer relationship with Harry’s kids.
I always felt Charles had a better relationship with Harry. William is definitely a Middleton. The way he freezes Charles out of his kids life though is upsetting to me. I don’t know what Charles is like behind closed doors but I never took him as a terrible father or a potentially terrible grandfather. William always seemed spoiled and he likes his ego to be stroked. Charles doesn’t seem like that kind of person and I can see where they clash; William doesn’t like to listen either.
Harry on the other hands, while rowdy in his own nature, seems more calmer around Charles. He would probably listen to him and look to him for advice. I have no doubts that Meghan and Harry’s children will be seen more with Charles and Camilla than William’s. For one, Meghan’s family is not in London and two, Harry would have no reason to freeze him out. I even suspect we’ll see a happy Grandpa outside of the hospital when she gives birth.
I’d like to see Charles escort Camilla and Doria up the hospital steps if H+M have kids (Mr. Markle clearly wanting a private life away from the press).
Oh, that would be lovely!
That would be very nice and very modern to see!
Is that likely? Really? The same charles who made a racist remark just a week ago? The news cycle spins really fast if suddenly now Charles is a stand up guy. If anything i dread the sort of remarks Meghan and Harry’s kids will get from grandpa.
Yes, I think it likely. Charles is smart in some ways, ignorant in others. Just like everybody else, especially those who bask in white privilege. I expect he is going to learn a lot from his new in-laws in the next few years.
I doubt that a man in his 70s who has been revered his whole life is going to learn anything from his in laws. He’d have to treat them like equals first. Given that we’ve seen basically nothing of Gloria since the engagement, i expect the same to happen post the wedding. Which is sad, i hope Meghan’s kids get to see lots of their grandma, it wont be easy for them being the only biracial kids in the privileged bubble they will live in. In this instance i wish Meghan was as close to her mum as Kate is, but i cant blame Gloria for staying away from those people.
Her name is Doria, not Gloria. She appears to dislike the limelight almost as much as her ex-husband, unlike the Middletons who lap it up. As the only child of single mother, Meghan appears to me to be very close to her mother.
We see very little of Sophie’s father, as he also shuns the limelight. As a result, he has spent years spending all of the big holidays with the royals. He stays with HM at Windsor, Balmoral, Sandringham as a welcome member of the extended family.
I think Charles has learned plenty in his 70 years, and that has included learning something about how the other 99 percent lives. We’ll see if he and Doria build a relationship through the years, or if Doria turns out to be as jealous, off-putting, and controlling as Carole.
Go research Gary Lewis, then come back and tell us these will be the only multi-racial kids in the Windsor family.
Apologies to Doria for getting her name wrong.
We see very little of Sophie’s dad because there is very little media interest in Sophie herself.
To think Charles will change is just wishful thinking, Doria staying away is a good indication that she’s a start woman
Sophie’s father has never sought the limelight, which is part of why there is less interest in him. There was plenty of Sophie interest back in the day, especially when Diana was attacking her publicly. If he had gadded about trading on the royal connection like the Middletons and Earl Spencer, he wouldn’t have been embraced by the Windsors.
Doria does not seek the limelight, that is clear, so staying out of the limelight for the past year is a reflection of that. If she has already met Charles, we wouldn’t know. I see her visiting the UK for long vacations in the future, especially if grandkids arrive. She’d be welcomed and embraced by Charles *as long as* she doesn’t act like Carole and try to cut Harry and his line off from Charles.
That isn’t about her avoiding Charles; it is about Charles being hyper-sensitive and wanting to be part of sons and grandchildren’s lives. Harry doesn’t have the combative relationship with Charles that William does, so I see less tug-of-war in the future over holidays, time with grandkids, etc. More likely Doria would be incorporated into Windsor holiday celebrations like Sophie’s father.
I think Charles loves his children and grandchildren, but he recognizes that this is the relationship William wants and isn’t going to push it anymore. It’s sad for the kids, especially when Harry’s kids come and they have a much closer relationship to Charles. Because I have no doubt Harry is closer to Charles and that Harry wouldn’t use his children to punish Charles for Diana.
William has developed a sudden interest in showing up for engagements that he’s never cared about before over the last few days. I feel like articles like this one are about to get more frequent now that him and Kate aren’t the only game in town. Spoilt lashing out William is my favorite William; he’s always seemed like such a jerk, i’d love to get a peak at all the PR machinations that have gone into making him pass for a semi nice guy.
They both developed a sudden interest in their patronages when Harry’s engagement was announced – Kate was far more visible during this pregnancy than her previous 2. The DoLittles don’t like being overshadowed, esp by little brother and Charles.
It has also quieted the rumor about him taking paramedic training. As it came straight from the mouth of a doctor at one of his engagements? William might have been lying, as he tends to lie/tease about many things in his PR games. The doctor might have misunderstood. Or William really has been doing that training program because he’s planning on avoiding royal work for another few years.
William is passive aggressive and will not like the star power of Meghan and Harry. When William kissed Meghan in public he knew it would be front page news , and it was.
Oh this made me a little bit sad: “the picture was one that had been issued publicly.” Getting an image in my head of Charles searching Google images, then downloading that photo of George and sending it off to Shutterfly to print so that he can put a picture of his grandson in a frame on his desk
And then William pitching a fit about it! Yes, that made me sad, too.
Yeah, I got that impression too. Although can you imagine the shit-fit William would have pulled had it been a private picture? Does Charles even have any private pictures? William sounds like an ass-hat. I’ve never liked him and like him less after reading this. Team Charles!
Most likely a staff member did it to give the image of “Grandpa” Charles.
Charles would have never stooped to handle such a detail and William knows it.
Oh my goodness this is so messy!!!
I have a soft spot for Charles because he had a rotten childhood, let’s face it. And his marriage was a mistake. I think he took Diana’s death very hard, and tried his darndest to be a good dad after she died. But he was a single parent. And now, his childish older son is still throwing tantrums because of what he did to his mother. William is 35, old enough to realize that life isn’t perfect, and that there are two sides to every story. Time to get over it, suck it up!!! and appreciate the effort that Charles put in bringing up his sons. This must really hurt Charles.
It’s going to be ugly after QE2 passes…
Tale as old as time…
its going to be interesting as hell
the public will probably insist that william take over instead –
I think the Middletons are viewed by W&K as excellent caregivers. Remember when W&K were on tour in India and Bhutan and William stated to the press his children were in good hands (with the Middletons). Charles needs solitude, he strikes me as a rather lonely figure, and not so good with small children…I can imagine Charles becoming stressed by long visits with his grandchildren. I think Charles frets over many things, it’s not easy for him to relax. Isn’t it the reason Camilla hosts her grandchildren at her home???
Doting grandparents are a wonderful thing. The Middleton’s are a strong unit.
And it reminds me in this saying:
“A son is a son ’til he gets a wife, but a daughter is a daughter all her life”
It’s unlikely that Charles has no contact with George and Charlotte.
Camilla and The Queen both talked about the kids. Calling Charlotte the bossy one etc.
So the kids aren’t hidden from their paternal family. There are just no photos so the press makes things up.
Carole Middleton is a total control freak. She wants to be seen as the perfect mother who is so into her kids. None of her three children have ever made a life for themselves. They all lived in the Middleton flat until they got married,never stood on their own two feet. Charles has allowed his sons to make mistakes, she is constantly hovering over her children. Ridiculous really, nice to be close but at some point you have to let them go. Meghan’s mother, on the other hand has allowed her daughter to develop into a mature human being.i’m sure they are close, but there is close and there is claustrophobic. Apparently, it was was Carole who intervened when William broke up with Kate and told her how to dress more provocatively and extracted a promise from him that he would marry her at some point.
I think EVERYONE who tries to pit William and Kate against Harry and Meghan are all indulging in a bit of fanfiction. Let’s be real —people here actually speak of Charles deciding to disinherit William ( and his three children ) and make Harry and Meghan the next king and queen. That is just…..delusional. But I would read the hell out of your work over on AO3 if you ever decide to write it.
The truth is that no matter how much we THINK we know about what goes on behind the scenes or what rags like the DM report, all we see is a sliver of these people’s lives.
For instance, maybe Will is tagging along to some of Harry’s engagements because he wants to spend some time with his brother before the wedding. Between wedding plans and the honeymoon, it will be a while before they have a lot of time together. And even then, once you marry and start building your own life, that changes the amount of time you have to spend with your family and friends. Or maybe he really DOES just want to get out of the house and away from the kids.
OR maybe that is my own pure fanfiction. But it amazes me that when a perfectly normal, plausible explanation could be had, people will rush to twist things into these bizarre theories and intrigues. Sometimes the hoof beats really are horses and sometimes the pasta really is pasta. LOL
Or a man who constantly uses his kids as an excuse for not working but then is proven not to be with the kids? Whose own wife let slip he disappeared for six months when their first child was born? Who ditched his daughter’s first Easter to go to his “close friend” Jecca’s wedding? Who has complained repeatedly in public about how loud babies and toddlers are? Who has never been photographed in public with the kids in off-hours, while wife, nanny, and granny have been?
Maybe he took the excuse to get out of the house and crash a few of his brother’s engagements, for PR and because he wanted to get away from the wife and kids. Track record over the last 8 years indicates he does that a lot.
@Tommy +1
@notasugarhere
I know you like to imply that William doesn’t spend time with his kids but both George and Charlotte looked very comfortable with William outside the Lindo Wing this week and other occasions in the past. You can’t fake that, you actually have to spend with them to get that level of ease.
He may not have spent a lot of time with George in his first 6 months but I do believe he spends a lot more time with both his older kids now.
And that time doesn’t mean it is 24hours a day, 365. To go against William’s rant, working parents are not bad parents. As long as kids are fed, changed, warm, and happy they tend to be pretty easy going. And as long as parents are engaged with the kids when they are with them, bond forms.
With the squad of nannies, they don’t lack for any of that in the Anmer household and that doesn’t mean it comes from the parents all the time. I worked with kids for years. As long as they have their basic needs met, they are happy, comfortable, and at ease with most people.
W&K feel free to spend plenty of time away from the kids to do what they want. Shop. Vacation. Go skiing. Go on a beach vacation. Just not work. But the kids are always the excuses for them not working, when time and again it is proven they aren’t with them 24/7/365. No photos of William out with the kids, despite the ones that get out with other family members in spite of his privacy obsession. I’m sure they spend time with the kids, just no where near the amount they project for PR.
Carole Middleton is a total control freak. She wants to be seen as the perfect mother who is so into her kids. None of her three children have ever made a life for themselves. They all lived in the Middleton flat until they got married,never stood on their own two feet. Charles has allowed his sons to make mistakes, she is constantly hovering over her children. Ridiculous really, nice to be close but at some point you have to let them go. Meghan’s mother, on the other hand has allowed her daughter to develop into a mature human being.i’m sure they are close, but there is close and there is claustrophobic. Apparently, it was was Carole who intervened when William broke up with Kate and told her how to dress more provocatively and extracted a promise from him that he would marry her at some point.
+1 Maria
If Charles ever withdrawls his favor upon William and co, it will be a very interesting day for the Middletons.
Of course they love their grandchildren and are excellent caregivers along with the team of nannies and staff. Do we really think Carole and Michael are doing the heavy lifting in that house when the W&K are away? The fiction that comes out on these types of stories are hilarious.
I was reading another site about the birth of Louis and the fan gurls were gushing over what a great dad William was because he drove his kids to the hospital! All by himself! Got them out of their car seats! W&K have only one nanny to help! They are totally hands on! and my favorite…Kate does loads and loads of charity work! See they are just like us LMAO.
Their ardent fans are firmly rooted in fan fiction.
Charles is said to be quite close with Camilla’s grandkids; it’s no accident that they’ve appeared on the couple’s personal Christmas card photo, but the Cambridge kids haven’t.
That was a warning shot to the Cambridges. Charles’ personal Christmas card pic without the royal grandchildren.
I bet William didn’t hear that shot.
I bet that Meghan’s and Harry’s children will be on Charles’ personal Christmas card pic.
One of Camilla’s five grandchildren appeared on a Christmas card in 2011, it was a picture from Will and Kate’s wedding and the granddaughter served as a bridesmaid. Have there been others?
I think that a Christmas card with grandchildren would be nice.
I wonder if at least some of the ill-will is rooted in some of Charles’ press manipulations that came during and after the period he was trying to rehabilitate Camilla’s image. For example, didn’t he leak the fact that William was meeting Camilla for the first time? Maybe he suspects that Charles will use the kids for PR (to bolster his image) so he limits his father’s access to them. And yes, I know W&K have a definite PR strategy around their children and releasing/withholding images and info, but that’s their right as parents to decide how that works.
I agree with everyone who says William tries to control too much—that will only continue to blow up in his face in the long run.
“For example, didn’t he leak the fact that William was meeting Camilla for the first time?”
I completely forgot about this, but I vaguely remember reading something at the time that William was absolutely furious that this meeting with Camilla was made public. It was obvious the leak came from Prince Charles and his team.
You could be on to something there.
I think it’s at least consistent with his hatred of the press and his control over unsanctioned images of the kids. I’m sure he recognized when both of his parents were using him as a PR prop (a lot of folks here on CB will argue Will and Kate do the same thing, but I would disagree that it’s anywhere near as bad as it got with Diana and Charles).
It seems like their relationship goes in waves and recently worsened again. It might have something to do with the negative Diana press that came out around the anniversary of her death to counterbalance the glowing tributes that I’m sure Charles feared would remind people of how much they hated Camilla. The sad thing is that by leaking this to Kay, it might only confirm to William that he can’t trust his father not to take everything to the press to get his way.
Overall, it just seems like this family really struggles with communication and it makes the Middletons feel “easy” in comparison.
In the Royal Family William is a child / junior Royal who ain’t got much to say as he is “just” the Duke of C. And likely the Royals do shot him down quickly whenever he comes up with some nonsense.
But in the Middleton Family William is both an equal and “THE PRINCE”. I bet he likes that very much.
Lexa: your last comment about William not trusting his father to go to the press is really ironic because Charles felt that he couldn’t trust Diana not to go to the press and refused to have any meetings with her after a while.
There is a famous news article about a family therapy meeting arranged by the Queen and Philip for Charles and Diana to discuss their differences. When they turned up, Charles refused to engage. When pressed, he said he didn’t want to engage because the entire meeting would turn up in the press the next day because that’s what Diana would do. Lo and behold, Diana promptly leaked the meeting to the press for the next day’s headlines!!!
By the end, entire family avoided Diana because she kept leaking all their interactions to the press.
I commented about this same incident (Charles making the boys meet Camilla, then leaking the details to the press) below. I think William and Harry didn’t find out about the betrayal until more recently, hence the distance in the relationship.
I think the royal drama of this era is more interesting than we think, it’s just a lot of it isn’t being aired in the press like in the Diana days. Of course, it would appear Charles is behind this story, so maybe he has not learned his lesson.
Meh, the excusing of William’s bad behaviour because daddy’s PR outed the his and Camilla first meeting are just absurd, the media manipulation did more damage to Harry’s image than they did to William’s. They also constantly threw Harry under the bus to boost William’s image but you don’t hear Harry whinning about all this. Both William and Harry were equally affected by their parents’ divorce and subsequent death of their mother, but one chooses to treat those around him with disrespect while the other chooses kindness. Wlliam chooses to be the person he is because that’s what he wants. I have found the excuses “my parents divorced so that’s why I act out and/or manipulate others” or “so and so was abused as a child that’s why he/she kills or rapes people” just that, excuses for bad behaviour. There are many people that grew up in broken homes who don’t act out or treat others with such cruelty or disrespect. There are tons that were abused as kids but never actually turn into serial killers just because.
+1
I think that both William and Harry were understandably devastated by their mother’s death, but William was used as a pawn in the War of the Wales much more than Harry was.
There are numerous real and perceived actions by William that I don’t condone but the guy is not a rapist or a serial killer, at worst he’s a run of the mill jerk.
I like Harry but in his case there are real and alleged actions regarding him being used as a patsy by the likes of William, Charles and royal PR hacks, and that does not impress me either.
@aaa, I never said William is a serial killer or a rapist, kindly don’t twist my words. I used the analogy of serial killers or rapists committing heinous crimes and using “childhood abuse” as an excuse, as if everyone who was abused as a child turned into a serial killer or rapist. Same here, when people use excuses of how prince Charles’ PR leaked stories about his sons and that is the reason why William is the way he is. I called that BS because Harry’s image was damaged the most by this PR guy but Harry is not petty nor disrespectful towards his father nor grand parents.
People are holding on to too harsh criticism of the family out of respect to the Queen. When she goes, most of us won’t GAF either and the family will cease to be relevant.
I’m sure Murdoch has a dossier on the Middletons as well as the enormous one he has about the Windsors.
@Nota, what must be hard for Carole is the business with Pippa’s father-in-law, because it something she can’t control. And yes, many posters have emphasized that is not Pippa’s business, but it has be affecting her has well as her helicopter mother.
It also impacts the future, should he be convicted of the charges regarding a minor. And not just because Carole won’t be able to sell the access rights to Hello Magazine for the Just Happened to Catch Them On the Slopes shoots.
No group in-laws skiing vacations, trips to the Matthews Scottish property with Pippa and Kate’s kids, discounted Royal Boxing Day Shoots, or beach resort stays with the Middleton-Matthews-MiddletonCambridge families. Especially if the royal grandchildren are involved, as he’d be legally forbidden to be around anyone under a certain age.
Don’t any of you have two sets of grandparents for your kids and struggle with one of the grandparents feeling jealous of the other grandparents closeness to the grand kids? In many cases it’s where the one set of grandparents lives physically nearer to the grand kids or is retired and therefor has more time to spend with the grand kids than the other side does. I see it a lot. Generally it is the wife’s parents that are closer to the grandkids from what I’ve experienced – but sometimes it is the husband’s family that is more attached to the grandkids. Rarely do I see a perfectly balanced family where the maternal and paternal grandparents are equally close to the grandchildren.
The father’s side of the family provides all the money, houses, expenses, staff, etc. Because the father’s side of the family works, scheduled 6-9 months out, so do not have flexible schedules. They have to rely on the good graces of the parents (who have the world’s lightest work schedule) to grant them access to the grandkids.
The mother’s side of the family no longer works, provides the 15 years of vacations, the fun, the PR cover, and never uses the four letter word “work”.
Maybe Charles has decided he’s got Harry and Meghan now, so screw William. And maybe William has that figured out, and is worried about Harry getting a bigger share of Daddy’s money, hence naming the baby Charles, because that is puzzling, given their relationship.
We don’t actually kbow theie relationship
William needs to grow up. Charles needs to grow as well. This is poor judgement on both William and Charles. Kate, as a Mother with a backbone, should tell her husband get it together for the sake of her young children…Whatever!
Personally, I don’t think it’s Kate’s or any partner’s job to manage someone’s relationship with their parent(s). And if they tried, it would likely blow up in their face spectacularly.
In a vast majority of cases it is the mother who has control over the relationship her kids have with the paternal grandparents. That said, the dynamic between Will and Kate has never been one where she controls him but instead she remains flexible to his wants. And as it stands, he doesn’t seem to want his kids to have a close relationship with his father. I don’t blame Kate for what is happening here because it’s obvious William is stubborn and she couldn’t tell him what to do if she tried.
It will be interesting once George, Charlotte and Louis get older and decide they may want to do things differently from their parents.
Kate doesn’t exude a good influence on William in matters of social relations with the Royals. She doesn’t try to correct nor does she try to improve things. Yes, William is an adult and should be able to manage his relationships. But a spouse (Kate) is also supposed to at least point out the other party’s irrational behaviour and offer help when needed. That is the whole thing about love and support through difficulties in a marriage.
I doubt that Kate manages that. I doubt she is a sounding board (equal partner in a discussion / talk) for such things to William. I bet that Carole has more influence about William’s social relations than Kate. It was Carole who pointed out that after nearly a decade of on-off-on dating it would be a matter of decency to marry Kate and only then did William propose.
Harry does not need William to tag along.
William Dolittle, please stay in your dolittle lane, Harry does not need you attempting to steal his thunder. Thanks
Netherlands Royal Family out in force today for King’s Day. A-Team all wearing clothing their mother Queen Maxima has worn through the years.
Crown Princess Victoria, back from her latest 40th birthday hike with the public, has picked up Letizia’s bad floral obsession.
I wish Celebitchy would cover more Royals and not just the BRF.,
I’m sure Kaiser would have much to say about Maxima’s fashion sense, or lack thereof.
I just saw the photos in my favourite paper and I am stunned at how much Alexia resembles Máxima. And when did Amalia become so tall?! She’s almost Máximás height.
The older two have sprouted up recently, the youngest hasn’t had her growth spurt yet. Both Maxima and W-A are tall, but the youngest might take after Beatrix in height.
And new pictures of Princess Adrienne of Sweden out today.
Once The Queen is gone, they are all screwed.
Well, perhaps some, certainly not all. I think Prince Andrew will feel quite miffed with his brother as King……and the streamlined effect on the Yorks. The Wessex family may also not be too pleased by the actions of Charles the third. It’ll be interesting to see what exactly happens.
Are we supposed to be surprised by this ? Isn’t it what the Windsors always do ?
George V was deadset against the idea of ever doing a Christmas speech on the radio, deeming it beneath him to speak directly to the nation. It was only after his advisors made clear to him that the effects of the Great Depression could lead to a French/Russian revolution-style scenario (the grossly empoverished population resenting the lavish lifestyle of their monarch and rising up against him) that he relented and deigned wish his subjects a merry Christmas in 1932.
Whenever the royals are in a tight spot and their unspeakably expensive yet thoroughly undeserved lifestyle is threatened, they turn “delightful” and oh so very compromising. William, Harry, Charles, the Queen herself… They’ve all done it, time and time again. They have to. After all, they are people who are paid to wave. That is their job, regardless of whatever work ethics smokescreen some of them desperately try to project.
As for the relationship between William and Charles being dreadful, it is not unexpected. The Windsors have a longstanding tradition of animosity between monarchs and their heirs. That is possibly one of the few things the show The Crown got completely right. British monarchs have a tendency to resent their eldest who will, one day, replace them and said eldest usually fight back in the most vicious of ways. Queenie did it to Charles and he to her; now it’s Charles and William’s turn…
Well, The younger royals are not good at understanding their roles which is there to SERVE THE PEOPLE. It’s not the other way around!
The royals’ role is to “serve the people” ? No it really isn’t. Their role is to reign. The whole “serving” schitck is something they hid behind when every objective political power was stripped away from them and they had to find a reason to justify their continued existence.
How do they serve the people, eXactly ? By patronising charities ? All non-monarchical countries everywhere have charities that work perfectly fine which proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a royal family is neither necessary nor particularly effective when it comes to charitable endeavours.
They serve bugger all.
As for what the people thinks, well… https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/william-and-harry-are-the-most-liked-royals-since-records-began-a3756191.html
Those are the latest approval ratings as published in the British media. And it appears that the approach of the younger royals does not hurt them one bit. Harry and William, aka a guy who dressed up as a Nazi for fun (and served an “I’m sorry if you were offended” apology when he got caught) and Sir Vacations-a-Lot, are pretty popular, aren’t they ?
@42istheanswer, I see your point, but once The Queen goes they are in trouble.
@42istheanswer, high approval ratings do not negate the fact that the princes/royals purpose is to serve the British people, not the other way round. Now whether they serve or not is a different story but their purpose is NOT to reign and be served. Prince Harry honorably served his country in HM’s armed forces for 10 years, and continues to serve his country through his charity work. I believe thats one of the reasons his approval ratings are really high in this particular poll (now whether this poll is to be trusted is another different story). And high approval ratings don’t negate the fact that William is behaving like a douchebag, behind closed doors, towards those close to him.
Will be interesting to see his relationship with Harry’s children, and how much space Charles gives Harry and Meghan vs William and Kate.
This does not bode well.
What do I know? But my impression is that Philip, having to play second fiddle to his wife, wanted absolute control when it came to parenting. Not a good idea since the Queen had very loving relations with her parents while Philip was essentially an orphan. (His mother was put in a mental institution by the father so he could pursue his mistress. She is buried in Israel with a high honor for saving a Jewish family during WWII). I think Charles tried to do a better job of it, but he, of course, had his damage and the fallout from Diana. Now William seems determined to also be a good father and perhaps a better one. Hopefully that is how it works–each generation doing a better job than the one before.
If it is the Dm then I think a large pinch of salt is required!
Diana and Charles had such a toxic relationship that even now in 2018 there is still fall out. Charles was older and didn’t treat her right. It is of course true that Diana wasn’t a saint in the situation but she was the victim. Also she tragically died BEING CHASED BY PAPARAZZI. The royals didn’t protect her. That is just fact even 20 years later. It is natural for WIlliam to have resentment toward his father even though Charles in someways the victim as well. Also, they like to pretend that William and Harry have embraced Camilla but I can’t help but think that, they aren’t very close with her either. They probably try to avoid the whole situation.
Yes, exactly! To have to publicly accept Camilla – my God.
Please can we stop this fanfiction that the royals didn’t protect Diana from the paps.
It is very well documented fact that she often called the paps on herself and teased them to a frenzy especially that final summer.
It is also well documented fact that the palace tried several times to restore her RPOs in order to prevent this type of harassment and she refused their help and the offered security.
It’s sad that she was harassed to unbelievable degree, but she was offered help and she turned that help down.
That help offered by the Royals wasn’t free of a charge. Diana was supposed to be less open with the press in exchange for help against the press harassment. Diana was practically supposed to sign a non-disclosure agreement and that would have put her at the mercy of the Royals. Diana used the press to press her causes and to defend herself. Unfortunately the press harassed her, too.
Imagine having lived through the divorce of your parents, find out your Dad was cheating with another woman likely his whole marriage with your Mom, then they divorce, your Mom dies, and you live the rest of your and your children lives without your Mom and having to publicly accept this other woman and your Dad?!
Ugh, I don’t know how he does it.
I’d be so tempted to tell them all to go to hell 🙁
As stated above, he chooses to live in and raise his kids in the house where Charles and Camilla had their relationship. He’s close personal friends with the son of the family that enabled and encouraged the relationship. He doesn’t appear to have the same attitude and opinion of infidelity that you do.
None of these people have good poker faces, and when you see photos and videos of them, Charles, Camilla, William, and Harry seem to get along fine.
@HKK, exactly. I’m confused as to why it’s all ‘ooh this fallout is ALL William’s fault’ or similar. It’s a two way relationship.
Charles has done things, a lot of things, that would be hard for William (and Harry) to accept. I’ve never once seen either Will or Harry conversing (like informally) with Camilla and vice versa. Maybe it’s just how they act behind closed doors to?
Regarding grandchildren – maybe it’s the same. Maybe Charles **and Camilla** want to be joint grandparents to the Cambridge kids like Michael and Carol are. But obviously, why would William want Camilla as the kids ‘grandmother’ at all? That would just be one harsh reminder of just how much Camilla has replaced his own mother. I really think if William has/is going to set up a grandparent schedule at all for Charles, he would tell him to come alone and not with Camilla.
Do we think Charles would accept that? We know how much he wants Camilla around everywhere after all, even as queen.
Neither William nor Diana appear/ed to share your opinion on infidelity, given their own personal behavior.
When it comes to royals, Charles works hard and William doesn’t. Why is it that W&K, who barely work, aren’t held responsible for making the effort to schedule time in their empty schedules to get the kids to Charles who has a work schedule 6-9 months in advance?
Plenty of photos and videos of them interacting happily. As I wrote, IMO none of them have good poker faces. If there was lasting dislike there, it would show. BTW in the new documentary about Camilla, she admits the grandkids (including W&K’s kids) all call her Gan-Gan.
@KKK, You know? When I think about this, yr logic doesn’t sound very plausible. Diana and Charles separated 4-5 years prior to the divorce. During those 4-5 years th,eyes each lived separate lives with the boys living in between parents. 5 years is a very long time. And prior to the seperation, the mother had had multiple relationships so there were more people than Camilla in the mix. I find the notion that they look at Camilla and resent her for wrecking their home very unbelievable.
Charles was too daft to wait and too daft to be more discreet. He wanted Camilla introduced to his children very quickly after Diana’s death. Camilla WAS the reason why that marriage did break. And Camilla did do some mobbing against Diana behind the scenes. So Camilla was the reason why Diana had a lot of these psycho issues. And I think both boys do know. But what were they supposed to do? Their father had a mistress during the marriage and a new de-facto-wife shortly after their divorce and Diana’s death and all the boys could do publicly is smile and hide their disgust.
I think at some point William and Harry just resigned and gave in to the notion that Camilla was there and wouldn’t leave.
@Grinning mama bear, the only people that wrecked the Waleses’ marriage were Charles and Diana, they were the ones that made vows to each other etc. I have no real deep feeling for Camilla but I don’t blame her for the Waleses’ marriage issues. Diana said herself that her affair with Hewitt started in 1986 while prince Harry was just a toddler, that is just 5 years after their wedding. But there had been affairs prior to Hewitt and those rumors go as far back as 1984 (by Diana’s own admission). 1984 was just a couple of years post their wedding and they both (Charles and Diana) were sleeping around left right and centre on each other. So the notion that Camilla is the big bad lone wolf that destroyed the Waleses’ marriage is not only inaccurate but just plain ridiculous. I am one of Diana’s most ardent fans but I strongly believe she herself played a very big role in the destruction of her marriage which resulted in her boys being raised in a broken home. And lets not pretend that Charles was not affected in any way by Diana’s extra marital affairs, as much as Diana was affected by Charles’ infidelities (there were more than Camilla), Charles too was hurt by his wife’s numerous extramarital affairs. I place the blame equally on both Charles (+ Camilla and all other women he had affairs with) and on Diana (+ the multiple men she had affairs with) They all are to blame but mostly blame is on Charles and Diana. And Charles was not the cause of Diana psych issues, they pre-existed Charles courtship and subsequent marrying her.
perhaps william sd also remember that his mother had her share of lovers as well – but he will forget as it doesnt fit the image that he has of the saint diana
My theory: after Diana died, Charles had the boys meet Camilla. A tabloid story came out soon after about how the boys met her and accepted her, a “Camilla isn’t so bad” PR piece.
Fast forward to a few years ago when that documentary on Charles came out. It came out in that documentary that Charles was the one who gave that story to the press.
Ever since then, I have noticed a frostiness between Charles, William and Harry. If you recall, Wills and Harry used to do engagements with their father. Now it seems as if they have nothing to do with one another.
So, if your father manipulated you into meeting the woman who made your mother miserable right after your mother died, if he sold the story to the tabloids and lied about it, I can very well see where Wills isn’t excited to have his children around that. We already know he’s paranoid about the press–I’m sure its 10x as intense when it comes to his own children.
Anyway, just my theory.
Harry has done multiple engagements with his father is the very most recent past and they seem close. There are also rumors of how well Meghan gets on well with Camilla and “Charles has noticed”. If Meghan and Camilla get along, there is only one reason for that: Harry saw fit to introduce the 2 and upon intro they hit it off. If Harry was “frosty” with his father and step mother, he wouldn’t introduce his fiancée to them long enough for them to form a friendship. There are rumors that Kate was getting along with PoW and DoC too in the beginning but that somewhere along the way, she decided to stray away from that and just stick with her side of the family. That tells me that William saw it fir to introduce Kate but she probably did not just click with any of them or something.
This sounds more like this whole family needs therapy. I do believe there are still left over issues from the parents divorce (maybe even issues from when they were married) that effect William. And with his mother’s untimely death & him being a farther, these issues (and possibly others that weren’t quite at the surface before) are boiling over. I’m sure they can get a group discount for a family therapist.
Lol.
And you are so right.
Let’s start with William being a spoiled , self-absorbed, mean-spirited, entitled brat of a man boy and take it from there.
It speaks to a significant lack of maturity that William behaves the way he does with his father. I think that you can have a troubled relationship with your parents and still have a mature understanding of the situation and assert your boundaries in a way that balances the interests of everyone involved. William has yet to realize that, for better or for worse, his family is in the public eye, which comes with certain responsibilities. I’m all for children setting clear limits when it comes to grandparents, but this is a fairly inconsistent way to go about it.
I think Charles, for his part, expects to emulate the relationship he had with his grandparents. He was very close to the Queen Mother, who indulged him in ways that his own parents wouldn’t have if they’d raised him and had the time to do so. He recognizes the importance of that relationship and how it can shape you as a person, hence why he’s particularly annoyed that the Middletons have basically become that for his own grandchildren. The Middleton influence isn’t going to stop with just Carole Middleton’s lifetime, I think. We’re in for a lot more than what we can see right now.
When a new baby is born, isn’t the right think to pay a call, and why can’t Charles pop in and spend half an hour? They are not going to-pretend they are not home. This seems like the same Charles that didn’t like attention Diana got. Charles need to suck it up and pay a call. But likely there will be a big Christening. I am not getting bad William & Kate from this. They are likeable , they try. Charles is so much the PRince of Wales that he comes across as little more.
Yes, I find it unusual Charles hasn’t shown up for a visit at KP. But perhaps he did later yesterday and it wasn’t reported??? I also find it unusual the photos of Carole arriving at KP have her son James at the wheel. Have Michael and Carole quietly separated???
Cutting out the Royal Grandparent(s) isn’t smart neither smart of William nor a smart move of Carole.
With the last two, KM went off to Middleton Manor for several months. If Charles and Carole have a contentious relationship, he has to go bow and scrape to Granny Carole to see his grandkids? Just another William game.
With William coming unannounced to Harry’s engagements not once but twice in 3 days with a baby less then a week old at home, the timing of this article is very interesting. Carole has been living with them way before the baby was born. i hope his not struggling with the new baby like he did the first one. And if he his i hope he start working for real now instead of going away and living his family behind.
William simply should accept that his father can be his mentor. Considering William is over 30 it is more a relationship between two equals / two full adults anyway. Nothing wrong with William having both a Middleton-esque family and Charles as his consigliere 😉
@Nota, “Why is it that W&K, who barely work, aren’t held responsible for making the effort to schedule time in their empty schedules to get the kids to Charles who has a work schedule 6-9 months in advance?”
And how do we know if William does that or not? We have NO idea what and when and how William schedules meetings between Charles and the kids, nevermind how often. We don’t even have an idea on when exactly the Middleton’s meet them apart from when Carole’s at Kensington Palace or when they are at Middleton manor. Maybe we should have a photo of every time Charles meets the kids, don’t matter about the kids privacy, since we all seem to be entitled to know their private family issues after all.
“Plenty of photos and videos of them interacting happily. As I wrote, IMO none of them have good poker faces. If there was lasting dislike there, it would show.”
Yes, photos and videos of Will, Kate and Harry having fixed smiles on their faces whenever they are around Charles and Camilla. They talk to Charles, and Camilla is just there joining in. Trooping the colour, Royal ascot, Christenings, they are all events where W&K and Harry are seen **talking** to the Queen/Philip/Charles but hardly ever Camilla even when they are close together. Kate would be seen talking to her, but then again she’s always been placed in them carriage thingys with Camilla and Sophie. It would be rude not to talk to them.
“BTW in the new documentary about Camilla, she admits the grandkids (including W&K’s kids) all call her Gan-Gan.”
That’s funny – in the documentary for the queen on her 90th birthday, Kate said that the kids call the Queen Gan-Gan. George was even seen calling the Queen as Gan-Gan at Charlotte’s christening, when they were both photographed outside the church. There were even articles about it at the time.
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Yes, and now they call Camilla Gan-Gan too. Sorry if that upsets the ardent Diana fans, but there it is. Camilla is in the grandmother role.
We know that Kate went off to her mother’s house for months after the other two kids were born. Just another way for William to call the shots, by making it extra difficult for Charles to have access.
We’ve had all the leaking from Charles’s side since the grandkids were born that shows how he tries to see them but is denied. With him being scheduled out so far in advance, because he’s doing the job W&K refuse to do? Yes, it is on W&K to accommodate Charles’s schedule and work with him to find times for him to spend with the grandkids.
Add in the constant stream of stories and pap shots of Granny Carole out with the kids in public. Funny how William complains about other pap shots, but never the ones showing Granny Carole and the kids. Obvious PR is obvious. Plays up the Good Carole, Evil Charles theme that is so popular with their fans.
I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle. However both William and Charles are products of their upbringing. Charles felt unloved and neglected during his childhood and William was used as the confidante of a very upset and often manipulative mother. So it’s not surprising their relationship can be strained at times.
I get the impression that Charles has to wait to be invited to KP whereas the Middletons can drop in whenever they want. The war of the Wales’ has taken its toll but as an adult and a married man himself, William should realise there are always 2 sides in every relationship.
I have always felt quite sorry for Charles which i know is not a popular view and I hope he enjoys a much better relationship with any future grandchildren from Harry and Meghan
I hope he has a much better relationship with H+M and any potential grandchildren. While Harry has his own boatload of issues, they aren’t generally a boatload of Attack Charles at Any Cost like William’s.
Same. I have a fondness for Charles, unpopular opinion though that is. I also think Charles is intellectually curious and intelligent, and wants to use his role for the greater good (his forays into diplomacy, his championing of environmental causes). Will was famously disinterested in his university coursework. I wonder if on an intellectual level, he and Will struggle to connect.
LAK, bluhare. A moment of silence. ELF is leaving.
It was rumoured for some time. I thought he was leaving last summer.
Sad face.