We haven’t talked about Rose McGowan since February. That was when she was on a promotional tour for her E! show, Citizen Rose, and her book, Brave. The headlines and interviews coming out of that tour were… not great. Rose was taking credit for basically everything that happened with #MeToo while simultaneously slamming everyone for not acknowledging that she was singularly the “architect” of all of it. She ended up getting into a huge public fight with a trans woman in the middle of a promotional appearance at Barnes & Noble, then blaming every person in the store and in her life for not stopping the fight, then she canceled the rest of her promotional appearances and said she was going away for a bit. Well, she’s back. And everything is still a mess with her. To be clear: I want Rose to be healthy and to do what she needs to do to get through her traumatic experiences. But I also need her to stop being such a white-feminist and a narcissist. You can read her Hollywood Reporter piece here. Some highlights:
On her reputation: “If I was Reese Witherspoon, would I be treated like I am? The answer is no. But [the press] feels I’m fair game. I think it’s because [Weinstein] paid off the media for 20 years to savage me.”
On what she did after canceling her book tour for Brave: “At first, I was staying at a farm with miniature ponies, but there was a wedding. So I went to a retirement community in Florida called The Villages, which had golf carts with Trump stickers. It was like paradise for old people.”
On why she helped kill Ronan Farrow’s NBC News story: “NBC took a lot of heat for killing the story. But I actually served Ronan with a cease and desist — two of them … I did not want my rape spoken about over breakfast cereal on the Today show. I’d heard about Matt Lauer. You can’t tell me the people at the top of NBC aren’t aware. Come on.”
Why she didn’t want her story on NBC: “I was never going to let my story be on NBC, but I wanted to ensure that the Times would do it, and everybody before had folded. So I pitted [Farrow] against The New York Times. I understand how men work and how Hollywood works and how power works. People are going to be much more interested in going down the line with something if they know they’re competing with somebody else.”
On her disappointing meeting with Barack Obama: “I was very disappointed in him. It was after everything had come out, the height of it … I was sitting right in front of him, and he would not meet my eyes, and then at the last minute, he asked for Naomi Campbell to be put in a photo with us.” [She says she was hoping she’d hear, “I’m sorry” or “Keep going, Rose.”] “All he said was: ‘You ladies sure know how to pose.’ I wanted him to be better.”
Again with how she’s the all-seeing architect of everything that unfolded. Ronan Farrow and the New York Times were investigating Weinstein separately, but Ronan was doing it for longer – it took more than a year for him to put together his Weinstein story. When he published it, he didn’t include Rose McGowan’s story. He included accounts from Mira Sorvino and Asia Argento, two women who were brave beyond belief. But Rose wants you to know that she was brave FIRST, that she is the all-seeing Oz, etc. As for Rose being the reason why NBC passed on this story – bullsh-t. She wasn’t the reason. The reason why NBC passed was because NBC executives are all about the Ol’ Boys Club, and Weinstein and Lauer are founding members.
Also, what she says about Obama… no. President Obama doesn’t owe her anything.
Cover courtesy of The Hollywood Reporter (via promotional email) and additional photos courtesy of WENN.
Why should Barack Obama apologize to her? Sorry, Rose, but no.
Yeah…um, excuse me?
Obama doesn’t owe you sh*t, Rose. Honestly, I appreciate her contribution to the #metoo movement but I think she should go back to the pony farm or the old folks home or whatever. Lay low for a while, Rose, and take care of yourself, because what you are doing now isn’t helpful. This is becoming an exercise in narcissism and she seems high on the stink of her own sh*t.
I’m sorry if that sounds harsh because I honestly do feel for her–she’s clearly very, very damaged–but the perpetual media blitz she seems to be on is not good for her mental health.
“I think she should go back to the pony farm” :))
The retirement community stay puzzled me. Villages is apparently one of those towns designed for 55-over (not a standalone facility).
The pony farm (animals/simplistic living) I can understand.
She doesn’t even say what this event was. Like maybe the former leader of the free world had something else to do at that event than hold her hand and apologize to her on behalf of every man who ever lived.
I posted down thread that it was at The Hidustan Times leadership summit in India. Obama was there to give a speech, not to meet Rose McGowan.
Minx, you are so right. Looooooool
Kitten- I’m not entirely sure her problem is narcissism. She seems so fragmented and at the same time explosive to me. Something else might be going on in her brain. Her view of reality seems very distorted.
@JWoolman- Ok, maybe not narcissism. Self-involvement? I mean, how else would you describe a woman who thinks that a former President OWES her some sort of special treatment? Regardless of what is precipitating her behavior, she is clearly struggling with reality. And ITA with your comments down-thread that there is something really intimidating and imposing about her. She doesn’t exactly exude warmth and hospitality, ya know?
I think she’s mad at the world because, initially, she took a payoff. she’s mad because at the time she took it, that really was her only option. I don’t fault that in any way… but now that its all come to light, she’s humiliated for having taken it & wants to play the triumphant martyr. it sucks all around, but she’s acting like a complete loon.
I believe if we were in her shoes, we would feel the same way. That asshole Weinstein hired goons to intimidate her, discredit her, set her up for a long time time. She was fighting against Goliath and for a long time she tried to uncover that floating turd in a rotting gutter. I personally understand her, because no Miras, no other were speaking up. I give her credit and she deserves the validation. The saddest part of it ,is that she must have a history of abuse from early age.
I have been in shitty situations over and over again, because of early abuse as well. It is like these creeps can single you out as if you are wearing a sign to be abused
Seriously – I want to like her and empathize with her, but she makes it so hard. Grow up Rose. Not everyone exists to service you and your feelings.
I get that she is clearly carrying some serious emotional pain around with her, but she’s very quick to attack, blame and name others..its not cool, and its not helpful. I wonder if it offers her catharsis to publicly point fingers at people – but is it worth it?
She says Harvey Wienstien coerced the media into portraying her negatively for years – I believe that – but this current media blitz…she is not coming off well, and it’s all on her.
Rose has been very good at presenting herself negatively for many years. She jumped the shark a long time ago & has a very narcissistic view.
I agree with Rose that had she been an American Sweetheart, like Witherspoon, she would’ve been treated very differently. But she never owns the fact she courted controversy and negative attention for years.
Walking an MTV awards show red carpet in a g-string is going to get you bad press. Making snide comments and infighting among a popular tv show’s cast is going to get bad press. Having a brazen and public affair with a married father of five is definitely going to get bad press. It wasn’t all Weinstein’s machinations.
I want to be clear though, I’m saying she should acknowledge that her negative image and reputation wasn’t constructed out of thin air and Weinstein’s money. NOT that any of those choices means she shouldn’t have been believed from the beginning
Maybe he didn’t know who she was.
That thought actually crossed my mind. He has to keep track of which leader is which, not who starred on Charmed.
With all that’s going on in the world,
and the expectation that he have commentary prepared about whatever it is Trump is doing, I’m trying to picture Obama having the patience to watch Charmed, and I just can’t.
I thought of that too. He may have known vaguely who she was and she assumed he knew all the details of her life. The expectations on Obama have always been galling anyway and this story plays into that. He’s been held to the highest, most impossible standards—unlike the illiterate venal slob who is currently parked in front of the White House TV.
She exudes such a crazy vibe, I would avoid looking at her also. Really. She’s scary, like a grenade that can go off any time. I don’t think that’s a result of all that’s happened to her, although the stress of that very likely made things even worse. I think she has underlying problems that predate that, so she was especially fragile. She seems to be getting worse more recently.
Minx – Rose seems to always assume that everybody knows everything about her and her life and then assumes that if they don’t react as she expects to her drama and trauma — they are rejecting her and lying etc. I think Affleck got caught up in that. She assumed he understood everything that actually happened from her cryptic remarks but I doubt that he did. The normal mind would not leap to think “rape” from what she said. She misinterprets people frequently.
My thoughts exactly!
Something is wrong with her, get some help. He doesn’t owe her anything, it’s not like their best buddies. It probably felt too personal to bring up.
Someone as careful as POTUS Obama…I’m not surprised at his response to her…That’s a response to someone who makes EVERY WARNING SIGNAL IN YOUR SOUL GO…”DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!” She can be the knife…and the wound….
This.
Exactly.
Agreed. What did she really expect from him in that situation? Her bitterness, while understandable, seems to be escalating. I wonder if she’s seeing a therapist to try to lighten that heavy burden.
+1. I was thinking the same thing
Exactly. I’m not surprised at all that he would be guarded around her- it’s more surprising (but then again, not so much) that she overreacted to it. Also, I’m not sure why she made the Reese Witherspoon comparison.
The Reese thing is puzzling to me, perhaps because it is so dated. Reese got bad press for a long time when she behaved badly on one occasion. No one is immune to negative media attention.
I took it as Rose saying if she’d been America’s Sweetheart when she came forward the reaction and coverage would have been very different than what she experienced.
I agree, this was the very thing I thought. He is so careful, respectful and circumspect.
This isn’t about Obama. This is about a woman on the edge who wants validation of her pain, her story and her crusade. The fact that Obama had nothing to do with her story doesn’t matter to her – she wants everyone to believe her with affirmations. Rose needs help or she is going to get stuck on the vortex of her experience and never get out. This isn’t someone who can tell her story and have a cathartic experience.
Exactly.
She is allowing it to consume her, and she shouldn’t. I hope she recovers from this.
CTGIRL- Rose seems like such a black hole – no matter how much sympathy and affirmation she gets, it will never be enough for her. I knew someone like that, she was exhausting. She ended up getting angry at everybody in her life eventually, including me, because nobody could possibly measure up to her expectations. Nobody could respond to her the way she wanted, and she could never understand that people have other issues in their lives that need attention and that it wasn’t always about her. She would get angry and then completely cut off the person and then tell any new acquaintances that she had been rejected yet again…. She rewrote history in her head also. Very dangerous person to be even a little kind to.
I would imagine she has PTSD, plus a lot of her behaviour sounds very like that of someone with borderline personality disorder. I cannot imagine what a burden dealing with both of these must be and I really hope she is getting the support she needs.
It’s challenging beyond belief to engage with a person who is a bit “off” from trauma. Rose needs lots of attention right now, but is not in a good place, and sending off “caution” vibes. I wish she’d go on a solidly helpful retreat for ALL she’s been through, then come back for a book tour in an healthier more grounded presence!
@MagicalDay you said it.
Exactly.
jwoolman: I know the kind of person you mean, and know someone just like that: one of my sisters. She reminds me of Rose, needy and angry, bitter, determined to be the center of attention and admired and praised and sympathized with at all times. B/c she is a very unhappy person, she makes demands and ultimatums on others that cannot be achieved, and, as each next person “fails” her—by having their own lives, their own traumas/problems–she becomes so outraged (and outrageous) that all attempts at a continued relationship with her are fallow. (She lost her last–and very important to her friend–16 months ago.) I think Rose is also a very unhappy, self centered, gratingly self righteous person, who wants attention as much for attention’s sake as for her cause. The thing I can’t forget about her (or forgive) is that she TOOK Weinstein’s MONEY, she let herself be paid off, and thus allowed dozens–or far more–women to more unwittingly fall prey to the ubiquitous Hollywood misogynist mega monster. She AlSO worked w a convicted child molester, knowing full well about his predatory history of pursuing children, and had nothing but kind words to say about him, nonetheless. For these reasons, I find Rose to be, at best, a spurious spokeswoman for her cause(which seems to be #All About Rose) and an embarrassment to the entire #metoo campaign. She is constantly, ironically attacking other women for being hypocrites, for not standing w the sisterhood, for daring to speak up about their own singular perspectives and experiences, and in so doing, she divides and weakens the strong, united sisterhood she claims to represent. She’s a terribly polarizing person, not a solid, unifying or strong voice for#Metoo. In fact, not only does she falsely–ludicrously, unjustly–claim to be the founder of #Metoo, she has also attempted to steal the spotlight from and to undermine other women on numerous occasions, by crucifying them on social media for their lack of true sincerity/true commitment to the cause—while conveniently forgetting that allowing her silence on Weinstein’s crimes to be purchased financially makes her the biggest hypocrite of all. Why is this forgotten?—that she allowed her silence about her rape by Weinstein to be financially purchased? Yet now, she is supposedly the original, self appointed voice raised against sexual injustices? When, in fact, she is closer to an enabler–or was–for an entire twenty years. It annoys me that no one ever asks her, publicly, why did you take his money, instead of speaking out two decades earlier? How does that put you in ANY position to be the “founder” and the (absurdly self righteous) leader of #Metoo?
Doesn’t she have anyone to look after her? She had so much public support before and hope she still has it. But she seems so alone and people are starting to avoid her. Really sad story.
Unfortunately she seems like the type of narcissist who alienates anyone who comes near her. I’m sure the trauma she experienced only intensified her issues.
That’s what I’m thinking. Two different issues that don’t mesh well. The entitled victim/martyr syndrome is apparently in overdrive with her right now. While she may not want to be labeled as a perpetual victim, that’s what is happening.
hmmmm….no she do not have hardly any support left.
She is so entitled. Obama does not owe her shit. Black people don’t owe you sh** Citizen Rose. But I’m glad to see she treats black men as badly as black women.
Exactly I’m so done with her. Look I feel for her but I’m not down with the things she’s done in the last year. Its all very ME ME ME LOOK AT ME. That and I’m not down with the racist crap she’s said trying to make false equivalencies by marginalizing people that are already marginalized.
Guess what Rose would people treat you this way if you were Lupita? No because she’s been ignored. My goodness she needs therapy
Yes to you both!!!
And if you have to call for Naomi Campbell to make you feel at ease…yeesh!!! She has no use for Black people and then expects them to be her personal cheerleader/life coach??
I think Rose does it to anyone in her orbit regardless of skin color.
I heard she grew up in an abusive cult which explains a lot of her psychological damage. Add to it Hollywood which isn’t a healing place for anyone who already is broken. It is a place that exacerbates all of your insecurities like feeling seen, validated and heard. I think that is what she wanted from the most powerful man in the room at that moment and happened to be Obama.
Bull****. I refuse to believe for a moment that Obama did that. She’s grabbing at straws. I believe that she was raped but she’s not the end all be all of women’s issues.
She is engaging in grief prolonging behaviour, she has been silenced for so long that now that she can speak she is screaming, right now she has no self regulation and is blaming everyone, been there and done that. She needs to step away from the media and get really good therapy and keep at it until. Until she heals, until she is balanced and until what happened to her has no more power over her.
I am not going to begin to touch upon her own problematic words and behaviour towards others.
I really agree with this. She’s finally been heard and believed, and now she needs to take care of herself and start to heal all those wounds before she can do anything else. I want her to remain a passionate activist, and her (occasionally misguided) anger and blame is understandable, but not healthy. So much of her life for so long has been consumed by this, I hope, now that people believe her and recognize what she’s been through, she can let other parts of her life come back to the forefront too.
Well said, Zapp.
Zapp – I think the rape is not actually responsible for her behavior today. That’s not typically the response to such a trauma. I would expect withdrawal as more typical, unless people here have seen similar reactions as Rose displays. The added stress can certainly exacerbate prior conditions, though.
Take a look at her life before that. She showed signs of deep problems long before that. Might actually be congenital. If she had not been raped with that particular aftermath, she could very well have still been exhibiting the same reactions.
In any case, we have to be cautious about believing her interpretation of later events. The rape is most likely real, but we can’t be sure of anything else. She must be a nightmare on sets, which would be a real career problem all on its own. Her perceptions of people and events seem quite distorted. That’s a real problem in any work environment. People are trying to explain her behavior as due to Weinstein’s actions, probably out of respect for others attacked, but who else among the #MeToo people acts like Rose?
It really depends. Responses to rape and abuse and other trauma are quite varied–although it’s not healthy, her behaviour isn’t unheard of for rape survivors.
She needs counseling. That is just reality. She has been through a lot of trauma as a result of being raped and then the cover-up. She needs help to focus on her health and so that she stops attacking people who have no role in her trauma.
Obama probably wanted to be pleasant and cordial, and he was.
It’s always disappointing to see the abuse a victim gets for not being the perfect, enlightened, noble victim who gets over their trauma in no time.
It’s clear as night and day that she is suffering and acting out. Is what she is saying problematic? Sure.
But it’s not yet time to have that conversation with her.
Let her scream and embarrass everyone.
And hopefully she’ll find her way to a good therapist who will help her reach an equilibrium.
Go Rose!!
Being a victim doesn’t give you a free pass to be an asshole.
Thank you!
It does not, but a victim in the midst of their pain can’t tell the difference.
What you are asking is for a perfect victim who will be an angel in order for you to be compassionate.
I can’t believe people are still defending her. One, two, three times okay, but my God every time she talks she is stepping in it. When she started minimizing the pain of other people and other victims, I was done. At what point is she just a jerk?
@LAK-you will always be in the midst of pain as a victim. It doesn’t go away, you learn to manage it, and yes, you can tell the difference. If you treat others with the same abuse that was served to you, you can never progress to a place of healing. At some point in the very near future, she has to lean she hasn’t cornered the market on suffering. Her pain is not a trump card to silence everyone, it’s a point to hold people accountable and start walking towards healing.
HK9: I hear you, but there is always room to recognise when a person is still at the stage of incredible pain and not demand that they pull their socks up just because we don’t want to hear this anymore and or it makes us uncomfortable.
I also recognise that when a person is in that stage, they are going to act out in ways that are problematic or ways that make me uncomfortable.
Shutting them down is not going to help them progress to the nuanced, less selfish, healing stage of their pain. And it’s upsetting that the reasons given for shutting her down are self-serving rather than helping *her*.
@LAK – no. Nobody is asking for a perfect victim.
We are asking, victim-to-fellow-victim, that she take a step back, remember that most people with a #metoo story is ALSO a victim who is suffering in their own way. In order to move forward, the in-fighting needs to stop. Check the personal sh!t at the door.
As @cara93 said, nobody gets a free pass to be an asshole.
I agree. I feel for her and don’t need her to be a perfect victim. I think asking someone to not be racist, transphobic and pedophile supporting is not a lot to ask. I give her a bit more of a pass because of what she is going through, but at the end of the day, do I know about EVERYONE’S trauma? There are lots of victims still suffering in silence, so do I just excuse everyone’s actions? Is it really fair to excuse her being a jerk more than other people who have been assaulted in their lives? Chris Brown was raped–do we just ignore all of the horrible things he’s done?
Yep. She needs a good therapist. The only people that “owe” her are HW and those who covered for him. Otherwise, what does Ronan Farrow and Obama have to do with it. I really am sympathetic toward her but her talking $hit about everyone isn’t really helpful.
It’s because she’s consistently publicly blasting people for what she perceives as major transgressions, AND because she is also consistently taking credit for the work of other and conveniently retconning her own story. I have a ton of sympathy for Rose, but we’ve gotten to a point where she needs to hold some responsibility for what she does and does not say publicly.
Bridget: I recognise all of what you are saying, and i stand by my statement.
Rose is in the screaming anger / pain stage right now. She’s inappropriate, short-trigger tempered, screeching at anyone who tries to help, refusing to accept an inch from those who might be sympathetic to her. And seeimg herself as the central, know it all victim.
And all of that is OK because she’s been living a nightmare for the past 20yrs.
Just because other people get over these things quickly and or behave with grace after the fact is not the standard we should accept where victims are concerned such that we expect them all to be perfect, noble and gracious. And say the right thing, at the right time, to the right person/ publication.
Some might react that way, and others won’t.
What was she like BEFORE the trauma? In her personal life and interactions with others? Was she always a bit self-centered and difficult and this trauma has intensified that?
I’ve reached my personal limit with her, but I think it’s been longer than a 20 year nightmare. She was raised in the Children of God cult and IIRC, was abused as a child.
On the one hand, she’s publicly processing trauma. On the other, she’s consistently publicly blasting people. At some point, she is responsible for being a crappy person. Personally, I wish that entities would stop giving her a public platform because it’s definitely doing her far more harm than good, but she’s also an adult.
@LAK thank you.
And sometimes it takes a LOOONG time.
When something like this happens to a person it basically cancels humanity for you. Because let`s be honest. They all kinda knew and no one saved her.
To realize things like that and not kill yourself is a feat in itself. So let het scream bloody murder for the rest of her life if that`s what it takes.
Her being a racist, narcissitic asshole has nothing to do with her being a rape victim. She’s always been that way.
Y’all keep talking about the fact there’s no perfect victim and I agree but you’re the one who are making her into a perfect woman because she’s been raped. Listen,she has shown incredible bravery and I applaud what she did to take down the disgusting perv whose name I won’t even type but I’m not going to give her a pass on all the other stuff she does.
Speaking of giving a pass, has Citizen Rose apologized for working with and defending a convcited pedophile?
I’m not making her a perfect victim.
I’m saying that *for the moment* let’s leave her to scream and shout and get all that rage out. It’s clear that is where she is, and trying to reason with her right now is futile.
Later, we can have that conversation.
Oh, no. She’s trying to insist nobody told her about the Victor Salva situation but she’s the one who defended him after it was pointed out to her all those years ago.
Lak- I do appreciate your sentiments and if she were my private friend I would take it to heart. But this is public. We heard you and believe you is all there is to offer. When she rages in ways I can not condone then it becomes difficult to support her.
LadyT: There is a phrase that alludes to the kindness of strangers. I can have compassion for Rose, a stranger, because i’ve had so many strangers be kind and compassionate to me.
Now, of course everyone has their limits, but we should always lead with kindness and compassion.
LadyT – I think you have articulated the struggle to reconcile letting her process her pain and the issue of calling out problematic behavior.
Where it is a friend who does not do this in such a public sphere, it is simple to prioritize the need of the individual to process their pain over the personal discomfort at their displaying problematic behavior. It’s not such a simple choice when the person is processing this pain in a very public forum.
Where the behavior is problematic on a larger societal level (here I reference the comments pointing out her taking credit and minimizing the contribution of Tarana Burke who founded me too and other behavior towards the trans community etc), then silence has the effect of not just comforting her and allowing her to process, but it can do actual harm to others by not standing up for those who have been marginalized.
In my view, where her behavior negatively impacts on those larger societal issues, then the individual gives way to the collective and it is incumbent on everyone who believes that marginalization of the black and trans community is wrong, must speak out against the message. Silence is complicity.
That’s not to say once must attack the messenger, but it is necessary to condemn the message.
Oh, LAK. That quote is “”I’ve always depended on the kindness of strangers” from Street Car Named Desire. Blanche says it after she has been driven mad after being raped, when men from the mental institution arrive to take her away.
Tiffany:)… i know it was used in the Tenessee William’s play in a very specific setting, but he didn’t have the copyright on it, and culturally it is used in many different ways depending on where you come from.
As an example, it’s a proverb frequently used by my tribal elders and i am pretty sure none are versed in Tenessee Williams or American culture.
kate: Exactly! I am most certainly am not asking for a “perfect victim”: Nobody here is asking or expectiing this of her. I simply agree w some others that her pain does NOT give her the license to be an unkind and bigoted, hypocritical, completely self centered person who seems to not think twice about subjecting others to condemnation, intense unkindness, and pain. All but one of my friends—scarily enough—were either raped or sexually or physically abused; I too suffered both childhood sexual abuse and was raped when I was 14. None of us have been anywhere NEAR “perfect victims”, many of us, myself included, lost many years to pain, guilt, shame, rage and despair, as well as self medication—alcohol and drug abuse were fairly rampant across the board w us, as well as quite severe depression. I did things which today I regret, no question. But,Rose is problematic for reasons such as her arrogance (gee, the President of the U.S. disappointed ME, he didn’t look into MY EYES) and because her “healing” takes the form of cruelly, unjustly tearing other people apart, her overt prejudice, and her shattering hypocrisy: the woman took her predator’s money, allowed her silence to be bought, thus endangering many,many more women: that’s where MY sympathy cannot be won. I care less about her than I would otherwise. . Anger and bitterness I understand, but when it is so frequently a part of someone’s behavior, though my sympathy for her trauma remains, I don’t have to like her, and I don’t.. A woman taking payment for silence about being raped is, also, in my opinion, not especially concerned w the welfare of other women–just her own. She is over 40 years old, and seems to lack any sign of humility; in fact, her rabid infatuation with attention for herself seem to overshadow her quest for—what? Justice for all women? No, I think, more than that, her motive is #Attention for Rose. To not like her does NOT make her rape any less harrowing or awful; or mean she hasn’t suffered as a result. in fact, it’s the one place I have sympathy for her. But just b/c someone has suffered immensely does NOT make them, automatically, a remotely sympathetic person, and Rose isn’t. Tired of the B.S.: No, I don’t dislike her b/c she is not “the perfect victim” (whatever that is) but b/c she is a narcissistic hypocrite who somehow is unconcerned w working w child rapists, or w not talking of her rape for twenty years–allowing herself to be paid off-who only NOW professes to be so concerned about women falling victim to sexual predators in Hollywood. I feel more as if she simply wants the spotlight—once again, as when she still was in movies—on herself.
Being a victim does not give a person the right to get away with racist and transphobic behavior. It is not the responsibility of everyone to be a punching bag.
Completely agree, LAK.
@LAK, I’m not asking her to be the perfect victim. I’m asking that someone in her life who cares about her intervene and point out to her that she is self-harming now, because she is, and help her find a better way to channel that pain and trauma in a way that helps her without hurting innocent people.
I think it’s admirable that you are supportive of her healing process and is patient with her lashing out. But I think you’ll agree that at a certain point a victim should no longer be excused for their bad behaviour simply because of their trauma. As you said in your comment, you believe she’s not ready to have that conversation.
The difference between us is that while you’re still in the permissive, let-your-rage-out mindset when it comes to Rose, I’m past that period. I’m at the point where I think her constant pain and rage fueled attacks on everyone and everything is not doing her any good, and she should move to the next stage of healing. Whereas you hope she will eventually migrate to a therapist, I think the schadenfreude and the public validation she’s experiencing from her very public fury and having people publicly making excuses for her poor behaviour is stopping her from progressing naturally into the next stage of the healing process. Some people need help in order to stop a downward spiral. I know I did. I think she does too.
I’m not saying either of us is right or wrong in our respective opinions, since I don’t think either of us really knows what she’s actually like as a person. And like I said, I respect your patience and empathy in this matter. I simply have a different opinion.
Okay, but it has been – what? – seven months since the public believes Rose about being raped by W.? Before that she was treated as the ‘crazy’ one. So, being finally validated for seven months after 20 years of fighting is not a long time for healing. It is so clear that she is still raw and hurting. I agree with LAK, she needs to get out her anger first. She is clearly not healthy. How can she be expected to act as if she were.
I do have a lot of sympathy for her, but there comes a point where supporting her means supporting attacks on other victims. I won’t support that. I am concerned for her well being, but I also have concerns for people that she might lash out at. It is a troubling situation, and i hope that she gets all of the help that she needs.
When a wounded animal lashes out, do we simply pull the trigger or do we approach with care and try to retrain into less harmful patterns of behaviour and only when that fails do we pull the trigger.
Where do you get trigger pulling from “i hope that she gets all of the help that she needs”?
I didn’t write that she a lost cause. I do think she needs to get care, but I also think that she can victimize others with her words and actions. If she was trying to shut down Rowan’s piece, her actions also had the effect of attempting to silencing other women who were victims of the same predator. She’s said terrible things about other victims. Putting her suffering above theirs isn’t right.
It’s a tragic situation all around.
Thank you for saying this. After what happened, she has every right to act crazy!
She doesn’t have the right to hurt other people.
I agree LAK, and especially with the wounded animal analogy
I think she was damaged way before the HW rape and the cult where she was raised was abusive
but the only thing what gets recognized and what people pays attention is the HW rape, so she is focusing maybe all her anger or attention to the only rape and only abuse which gets recognition from the wide public, which is the HW thing
as some other celebrity said, HW prayed on the vulnerable…. and Rose was and is vulnerable enough
I would like to see the cult people who raised her to be outed and persecuted, because clearly they did the most of damage, IMHO
something about this lady irks me.
Again-she needs to burn through her anger PRIVATELY. Because now she saying things that will hang on her for a very long time. Obama doesn’t owe you shit. No one owes her anything and you can’t process that and act accordingly in her current state. What she wants is always paramount isn’t it. She thinks everything is always about her-and it’s not.
No, he doesn’t owe her anything. He doesn’t owe anyone anything. However he is known for being an empathetic and caring individual so if it’s true he wouldn’t even make eye contact with Rose, that is disappointing.
I’m having trouble believing he made no eye contact whatsoever.
@minx I don`t .
Sometimes it is hard to look someone in the eye when you see they are going through a lot of pain. It just happens. Does not have to have any malicious intent behind it.
I think he would careful and polite enough to look someone in the eye when they first meet, shake hands, whatever. And then I can believe he might not after that for the reasons you mentioned.
This is a man who has met and comforted people in the most horrific of circumstances: people who have lost everything to natural disaster, people who have lost 6 year old children to gun violence. Sorry, but not believing Rose here. Obama owes her nothing.
They were like on a red carpet or something.
The photo is here:
https://m.rediff.com/getahead/report/rose-mcgowan-india-ht-leadeship-summit-rape-is-theft-me-too-harvey-weinstein/20171204.htm
I really don’t know what kind of meeting she was expecting in that situation. She seems to need validation and credit, maybe she was expecting that from him.
@minx yes, I agree.
And I think what you said is exactly the point Rose was trying to make.
Who cares?
Maybe Barack was busy engaging with others (Rose was NOT the only interesting person there) or maybe he tried to make eye contact when she was looking in the other direction. I mean, seriously? This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to come for Obama over.
Additionally, the fact that she seems to think he should apologize to her or acknowledge what she went through is arrogant AF. He’s a private citizen who can choose to associate and interact with who he wants to.
I mean, FFS maybe he felt that it was inappropriate or uncouth to bring up something so personal and emotional at a public event like Hindustan Times Leadership Summit??
Because I know that I would feel like that. This wasn’t a private meeting between the two of them. There’s a time and place for sh*t like that.
Yes, exactly.
What were her expectations? It’s not like this was a private meeting or even a meeting about her or #metoo. She’s already said that she wants to tell her story on her terms and she’s ripped into so many people that try to engage her. Why would anyone take the chance of bringing the subject in a public forum. It was a photo op. She didn’t want her rape to be discussed over breakfast tables but it’s okay for the former President to do so on a red carpet?
I know that she’s wounded but that doesn’t make her current behavior any less toxic. It must be exhausting to think that you’re always the most important person in the room.
GentleOrange- Precisely because Obama is empathetic, he very likely is more sensitive to emotional states. Rose gives off signals that mean “Danger, danger, Will Robinson!” to sensitive people. He has no trouble looking people in the eye who have suffered. But from my own experience – intense disturbed people like Rose are to be avoided. They are the stalkers and bunny boilers…. Really. They misinterpret the slightest hint of kindness and interest and then run with that to try to embed themselves in your life.
Alternatively, he really did look directly at her but simply not long enough to satisfy her unreasonable expectations and worst of all, did not engage her in conversation the way she wanted. People like Rose are so focused on themselves that nothing really satisfies them. He was undoubtedly preoccupied with other duties and meeting Rose was just a minor thing to him. She was looking for something that just was never going to happen.
The media really needs to stop giving her a platform now. It’s really not helping her, and at this point she’s not adding to the conversation in any way.
I feel bad for her, I do, but every interview she does now is purely about indulging in rage-fueled narcissicist delusions. She needs to sort through that with a therapist, not The Hollywood Reporter.
At best. At worst she’s becoming an easy target for opponents of the me too movement.
Sooo…
Obama didn’t- what? Bow down to you? Kiss your feet? Pat you on the back?
You “wanted him to be better”?
My can’t evens can’t even.
She stated clearly what she would have liked him to do.
She is squandering all her goodwill by being a narcissistic asshole.
Yes, and I’ve seen her be very mean to other women. I am not a “go Rose” person.
I just feel bad for her. To echo what Merritt said above, the rape and the aftermath clearly took their toll, because this is just sad to watch.
I feel bad for everything she’s been through, but she’s problematic as hell and rubs me the wrong way.
I’ve never heard of Obama being like that with anyone? He was even super courteous to Cheeto lol I think RG needs to take a break from being in the spotlight. I have a friend with a similar personality and it was so intense because she wasn’t getting as much help and support as she needed from her family and from therapy after a traumatic situation. I hope that isn’t the case with RG and she has enough support.
To expect to be validated by the POTUS and then to feel crushed when you are not – just indicates how much she needs support in the form of a good therapist. Or better yet, a treatment center where she can check herself in for a while and get some help.
Also, this is the same Obama who was very nice to Minute Maid Mao and his useless, waste of space, racist trophy wife even after everything those two clowns said about him and the plagiat. So I don’t see why he would behaved that way with Rose. And we know how she sees black folks…
You don’t think she’s projecting a bit? What exactly did he do that was rude? She seemed to have an idea of how she wanted to be greeted and was offended when it didn’t meet her expectations, but that doesn’t mean he did anything wrong.
ETA: my bad, I completely misread read your comment. We’re in agreement lol
No worries KB 😉
Yup. It’s a privileged position to give her the benefit of the doubt at this stage: Rose has issues with black people.
I’m confused. Why does Obama owe her an apology?
Based on what she says it sounds like she made him uncomfortable.
He doesn’t. It sounds like she was disappointed he didn’t have a heart-to-heart with her.
I dont think when she expected “I am sorry” it ment an apology, I think she expected him to say “I am sorry” meaning I am sorry what you went throu
that said, she was crazy way before the rape
I would persecute that cult people who raised her
*uck her. Seriously. I am DONE with this chick’s white feminist BS. Barack Obama doesn’t owe you ANYTHING. Black people dont owe you ANYTHING. And taking credit for a movement that started YEARS before white actresses decided to talk about it – a movement started by a black woman no less – is disgusting. My sympathy is at zero for Rose. She has commoditized her own victimhood and it’s disgusting.
The condescending way she said she was “disappointed” in him really grates on me. Like he failed to live up to her standards or something.
I agree with everything she says. She is so incredibly entitled, it’s breathtaking.
Agree
Too many blanket statements about her behavior are being blamed on trauma and that is not a good thing for the rest of the population who have endured trauma.
I believe she is making the stigma that comes along with being a rape survivor worse, as well as the stigma that comes along with mental health issues. I say that as someone who battled PTSD for years. I can’t sing the praise of EMDR therapy enough. Love and peace to everyone hurting.
“I believe she is making the stigma that comes along with being a rape survivor worse, as well as the stigma that comes along with mental health issues.”
^^THIS. She’s not helping.
Positive thoughts and best wishes for continued healing. Electric Tuba ♥
Hugs
As a fellow PTSD sufferer, I feel you (mine “only” came from head injuries). And you’re right, people are writing her too many excuses. I guess I just don’t want to be hard on someone who had so many difficulties and I don’t really want to kick someone when they’re down, but after a while a person is responsible for their own up.
Thank you. YES.
Compassion for what a person is going through does not mean you have to endorse all their actions.
I’m glad you found healing.
She creeps me out tbh.
Ok, Rose expected some validation from Obama? In 2008 she did not care too much about him. She did a segment with James Ellroy and Bruce Wagner (not sure if it was shot exclusively for a show in Germany called ‘Through the night with…’ or if it was just re-used here) and she called herself anti-Obama. She trashed the press for praising him. You can watch that part on Youtube.
So she never liked him to begin with and even trashed him, but she wants him to acknowledge her pain and her contribution to a movement, while she never believed in him or his contributions?
This is what some of us have been trying to say for months now. Rose’s being a racist asshole has nothing to do with her rape. This is who she is deep down: an narcissist, racist, entitled white women who is at the center of her own universe.
I didn’t know about that, but it is the least surprising thing I’ve ever heard. Enough excuses for this woman.
I found that interview and she (and those guys) sound really ignorant. She might vote for McCain because the press idolized Obama? That’s deep.
Eesh. I have to admit I barely dig into her story because although I have sympathy for her, I find her off putting, but this is just gross.
I looked the show up again and it seemed to be german with all kinds of german celebrities as well as international stars, authors, photographers, journalists and really interesting ‘pairings’ (as in Henry Rollins and Shirin Neshat). So I usually watched every episode I could catch, even if I didn’t know one or both participants. In this episode I didn’t know who those men were and got annoyed rather quickly, but I kept watching. I think they met with Rose for dinner or drinks at some point of the evening and I came away from this with an intense dislike for her for years.
Noone in their right mind could dislike Obama.
HA!
I see my comment was erased
HA!
I see my comment was erased
Who knows if it was a book store or coffee shop or something perhaps Obama would have engaged in conversation with her about that? But I am a sex abuse survivor too and I wouldn’t have brought it up to her at such an event and with so many around. That too could have been misconstrued as insensitive or inappropriate. Also I don’t buy that he wouldn’t meet her eyes.
Neither do I. The guy has no problem facing anyone down. I just don’t see him being afraid of Rose McGowan.
Rose has a fricking problem with EVERYBODY. I am so sick of hearing about it.
In light of the situation, Obama’s comment is pretty dumb. But he did not owe her an apology. I have a feeling that if he offered one, there would be a backlash against him attempting to speak for all men, or WKing. Like, “Oh, you think you can fix that with words?”
…also its a shame shes had to sell her house to fund legal stuff…still if A Costand can fight the good fight and win may Rose win hers too…
I think it’s possible for someone to go through absolute hell, and to simultaneously totally suck as a person.
Rose needs medication and therapy. She’s veering into Sinead O’Connor territory. I see someone who has mental health issues first and foremost. The sexual assault is secondary. And I’m not entirely convinced her MH issues stem from the assault.
Seems to me she has ‘victimitis.’ She will always be someone’s victim until she receives the help she needs and matures through her need to be the center.
Maybe he didn’t want to stare at her and seem creepy. Sometimes eye contact can be misconstrued.
She also randomly called out Gosling for naming the victims when he posted a sympathetic message to Weinstein victims and talked about regretting working with him on twitter
She didn’t call him out for naming the victims, she called him out for NOT naming the victims. Like she wanted to be mentioned in his statement. She is looking for notoriety or validation from it all. She also slammed Meryl until Meryl mentioned her by name and said she meant no harm and suddenly all was good. She wants people to acknowledge her suffering or something but in very a narcissistic way that centers her as the most aggrieved.
She’s at war with everyone. Alyssa Milano, Amber Tamblyn, Ben Affleck, Meryl Streep, Justin Timberlake, Ryan Gosling, Jill Messick (her former manager who committed suicide), and now Obama. I get what happened to her was traumatic but I almost think she’s bitter because she isn’t getting the constant recognition for bringing Harvey down like Ashley Judd, Gwyneth Paltrow or Angelina Jolie did. Maybe Obama had a lot on his mind and Rose wasn’t one of them. She acts like everyone should be falling all over themselves to give her pity.
Or maybe, I don’t know… Obama is hyper aware of the fact that, as a man of color, every single look he gives and word he says (ESPECIALLY to a white woman) can and will be scrutinized and used against him??? Jesus. Her white entitlement has nothing to do with her rape. Willingness to give her a pass on it is a marker of privilege. You can be a rape victim and an asshole. She sure as hell is.
ITA
Good point.
I cannot.
Delete.
I’ve never been fond of Rose. The entitlement is huge with this one. Some of us have faced similar problems and aren’t blaming everyone.
“It was after everything had come out, the height of it”
Err..so? I know many who still only know the broad outlines of the Weinstein story and wouldn’t be able to identify Rose or her role in it to this day. Not because they’re ignorant or heartless, but because their lives don’t allow them the time to investigate these particulars. Not to mention, even if Obama did know about it, he might have thought it better not to make mention of her recent travails. She is deserving of support, but she should seek it from appropriate sources.
She may be one of the loudest voices for the #MeToo movement, but she is certainly not one of the most well liked. She’s way too abrasive for most people’s empathy.
Get off the coke, Rose.
Can’t stand this chick. I do not stand by anything she says. She’s using all the victims stories for her own agenda. She is no feminist, she’s a loud mouth embarrassment.
I don’t like Obama, the poli-celeb, but this is a bit of a non-story.
If Obama is a “poli-celeb,” what does that make Trump?
Trump is a gold-plated and orange-coloured buffoon, but let’s not pretend Obama doesn’t court celebrity and was some kind of saintly Dem. He could have very, very easily punished Wall St for their 07/08-crisis-related fraud (as he exercised his exec-branch powers through the firing of GM’s CEO) but chose not to. In fact, Wall St leaders were expecting him to, but he didn’t. That’s his legacy, but people love his personality and gloss over it. I won’t condemn him for failing to rein in the military-intelligence industrial complex and its perpetual pursuit of war as that’s a task beyond any mere mortal (look what trying to do so turned out for JFK) but Obama is a corporatist technocrat deeply steeped in elitist propaganda of the 15% and some people still think he cares about the little people in the traditional sense. He probably does, but only if they’re led by the technocrats, the professional class.
Voted for Bernie, did you?
Exactly, Minx 😀
Minx and CairinaCat, care to reply on the facts? I’m of the 15% but income inequality as you guys have over there in the US is not sustainable. Which is why you have crazies like Trump in power. It’s a vicious cycle.
This! And besides everyone seems to forget Weinstein was one of the Democrat party’s most prolific donors. It seems so strange to me nobody knew of his disgusting behavior in the Obama’s entourage, considering he was a predator for decades.
I feel for Rose,as a rape survivor however, a good friend of mine worked as a PA on “Charmed”. Rose was a shitty person then. Her abuse should not be disqualified. Her intense “look at me” reveals a lot.
This.
Aww…what happened to my comment? Okay, I’ll try it again…
SMH @ Rose. Was Obama not Oprah enough for her? He should apologize to Rose for not saying, “You Go GIRL!” After all, that’s what people of color live for…/s. To be “The Help” stereotype…
Ehh… this is a woman who was raped, brutalized, and then deliberately mentally tortured for decades by a deranged sadistic psychopath with a lot of power and money. She’s very seriously mentally ill and people who are as mentally ill are going to present that way, not present as the perfect victim or anything close to it. I really don’t care how narcissistic she seems, I am okay with her presenting as “a mess,” I think people who are as mentally ill as Rose are going to present that way and expecting mentally ill people to present differently, act respectable. be courteous and behave themselves is not something a lot of them can really do. Plenty of mentally ill people walk down the street claiming to be Cleopatra or Julius Caesar, we don’t accuse them of being narcissists and to me this is the same. I just hope people see Rose’s weird comments for what they are and I just hope she can eventually be at peace.
You can be a victim and entitled at the same time.
She’s already been involved in a racial row so I’m not surprised.
When was she involved in a racial row? The only incident I heard of was a trans woman yelled at her, “what have you done for trans women in men’s prisons” when she was speaking about her book on her book tour, and then screamed at Rose until the entire event was brought to a stop, and Rose was on the defensive because she came to talk about a specific thing and was attacked for not being everything to everyone. She didn’t go looking for a fight with that person while she was doing her book event.
I’m not sure about a row, but people call her a white feminist because of this:
https://medium.com/@ameliastark_29849/replace-the-word-women-with-the-n-word-6979f9673846
I also hope Rose eventually finds peace.
I agree. But this is a non-story from her, really.
heh. Naomi would no doubt ably defend Barack from Miss crazy. He knows.
a serious topic, but I cant help to laugh at how right you are, lol
If Obama didnt look into her eyes (which I understand, you never know what can trigger a crazy person like Rose to act even more crazy) and requested the help of Naomi, its very telling
Urgh she’s really terrible…..I think the media needs to stop giving her a platform. It doesn’t feel productive for her to keep blaming and shaming people this many months later. What does this add to the MeToo movement now?
The reason why Reese Witherspoon would be treated differently – and difficult narcissist personality types will never get this – is because she is well regarded, sensible, positive, self aware, etc. (Whether you like her or not, that’s a fact.) When difficult people get into tough situations, they make it very hard to support them because their behavior is such a turnoff.
To me, that goes back to being the perfect victim and how women who already have shaky mental health are targeted for abuse because they are less sympathetic and less likely to be believed. All you have to do is look at the rate of sexual abuse and assault in mental health facilities by workers against patients. Abusers often target people specifically because they are vulnerable in some way, whether that’s their age, legal status, physical or mental health status, disability, poverty, etc.
Look at how often abusers get away with their acts by saying about ordinary women, “she’s just crazy / angry /emotional / bitchy.” That is a major way that abusers keep their power – by portraying their victims as crazy, unreliable, and UNLIKABLE. I think people often do talk about how abusers like to paint their victims as crazy. But we don’t talk so much about how they like to portray their victims as UNLIKABLE. To use relational aggression to get everyone to turn on the victim simply because they don’t LIKE her, even if they know the abuse happened.
We know that abusers do this to ordinary women. So doesn’t it make sense that a woman who is ALREADY suffering from shaky mental health and is ALREADY “unlikable” would be even more of a target and prey for abusers?
So many times just in my personal life I have seen an abuser get together with a woman with mental health problems, and trigger her to act out on purpose so that everyone around sees her as crazy and unlikable and unsympathetic, so they won’t believe he is abusing her, or even they do believe it, they sorta think she deserves it.
So no, I won’t perfect-victim Rose, and I hope she keeps saying what she wants to say even if she presents as unlikable and crazy.
I actually agree 100%, it is very hard for people to support others when they are difficult people whose behavior is a turnoff. I think so many abusive parts of our culture rely on that fact so I’m just gonna refuse to go along with it.
TL;DR Lots of mentally ill people aren’t able to behave likable, and women also get called “unlikable” when they are full of justifiable rage, and abuse against “unlikable” women is often swept under the rug, so I want to deliberately support “unlikable” women.
The thing is people who are as mentally ill as Rose and had so much trauma need medical help in proper institutions, not going to social events, book tours and whatnot.
I doubt Obama even recognized Rose. My parents know about Harvey, but I doubt they would recognize Rose’s name right off the bat much less her face. There’s also some white entitlement here from Rose that makes me uneasy.
“ I also need her to stop being such a white-feminist “ Wow, if a man had written this I’m sure he would have had a very negative response from his readers.
Rose was tap dancing around borderline personality disorder before all this happened. The trauma amplified it. She is unlikable, perhaps a bit narcissistic (and you can be narcissistic without having the personality disorder), but she’s a victim. And at the moment, she is a victim incapable of separating her victim-ness with that of others. She has to be the alpha victim, because that is the only way she has a sense of self at this moment. Being raised in a cult has taken away her sense of self from an early age. This raging, this #metoo?nomefirst attitude is her lifeline. She needs intensive therapy and she needs to find herself. And this will take time.
I am empathetic, but guarded where she’s concerned. I also don’t take everything she says at face value. Her world is shaped by her emotions, not necessarily by the “truth.”
Great, insightful take. Sounds on point. Thanks.
Thank you paranormalgirl; as the daughter and sister of women who suffered from borderline personality disorder – my mother at the “Queen” end of the spectrum and my sister at the “Narcissistic” end – my childhood was, shall we say, fraught with land mines. Mr. Jaded’s ex also suffers from it on the “Histrionic” side. It’s a horrible thing to deal with and requires life-long treatment, which none of the aforementioned believed they needed. A borderline’s attitude is that it’s everyone else’s fault, not theirs. They will go to any length, even ending long friendships and family connections, to prove they’re right and everyone else is wrong. I do believe this is a big part of Rose’s over-the-top behaviour and constant attention-seeking. She’s made her point and now needs to go quiet and into intensive therapy.