I do spend some time wondering what Queen Elizabeth really thinks of her granddaughter-in-law, the Duchess of Cambridge. I also would love to know what the Queen thinks of Prince William, and if she’s unhappy, whether William gets the brunt of the criticism. Someone threw out an interesting theory on last week’s jewelry thread that the Queen isn’t gifting Kate with major jewelry pieces because the Queen still isn’t sure that this marriage will last. Maybe it’s a natural concern, maybe it’s that the Queen sees William’s outright disgust with royal work, I don’t know. But I feel like the Queen is watching and waiting and judging. Anyway, this week’s Life & Style cover story is all about Kate going to “war” with the Queen – because Kate is following William to Anmer Hall so he can be an air ambulance pilot.
A tabloid has claimed that Kate Middleton is fighting with her royal grandmother-in-law, the Queen. The cover of Life & Style magazine’s 25 August issue says the Duchess of Cambridge is at “war” with the 88-year-old monarch, stating: “Kate Packs Up And Leaves!”
The publication further claims:”‘I want a normal life,’ she [Kate Middleton] says, rejecting the Queen’s attempt to control her.”
A source allegedly told the publication that the royal couple’s decision to move out of their newly renovated Kensington Palace apartment and into the 10-bedroom Anmer Hall house in Norfolk has upset the Queen.
“The Queen is furious. It’s a huge slap in the face. Kate, and now William, are sending the message that they refuse to be forced by the Queen to do anything,” the insider is reported to have said.
“The move can’t come soon enough for Kate. She feels utterly trapped in London and living in Kensington Palace,” the source revealed, adding that the 32-year-old royal is excited about moving her family to the countryside.
“Kate has lots of friends with kids who live in Norfolk, and she is already planning a very full social life for her and William and George,” the source went on. “George won’t have a shortage of playmates, unlike in London, where he doesn’t have much freedom.”
[From L&S via Yahoo]
Wait, George is the one who needs freedom? Hahaha. Way to throw your baby under the bus! William is the one who needs “freedom” – freedom from having a regular work schedule, freedom from undertaking royal work in a real way, freedom from having the press deign to ask questions about how he conducts himself. And I’m sure Kate and George are just along for the ride. But sure, Kate probably wants to live in a spacious mansion in the country so she can spend all of her time shopping, lunching with friends, etc.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I doubt she has a problem with where they choose to live, and I doubt she’s unaware that Kate does what William wants.
Agree…I also find it very difficult to believe that Kate is that stupid to wage a war with QE11.
HM is no push over, along with the Duke and they have the longivity of the monarchy at heart and life!
Workless lazy shop empress Waity doolittle don’t have the brains to tango with HM or at war, its ma carole and the muddleton hangers on family. The more hidden workless Waity and P Willnot middleton is hidden the more they can have their in law suite of rooms at AH to stay in with the family and society aristocrats for the other to hitch a wealthy husband and climb.
Remember the silly story that KP would have in law suites (not); the Firm BP had to stomp that straighten the news reporting. Now they want their chance to move in at AH hence, the scheme with Willnot to move there, using PGTips as the excuse for the country.
Its as if they can’t live at KP and weekends go stay in AH which is what the original gifting from HN was intended.
I also doubt that the Duchess of Cambridge wants a normal life.
If Kate Middleton and her whinging husband want a normal life, they can pay for all of it themselves out of his charity-funded salary.
Oh she does want a NORMAL life BUT with ROYAL perks (shopping, people curtseying to her and fancy bling bling).
Seriously Kate and William need to be dropped from the royal crew. She can have her “normal” life as long as the british taxpayer doesn’t have to pay for it.
GoodNames
This story, like most of L&S is BS.
Remember how they got Amner Hall to begin with? William missed Christmas in favor of the Middletons because he didn’t have a place of his own to stay while there. And granted it is said to be crowded, but still. Amner was a bribe the Queen was well aware of in paying off the current leasers.
Bridget
Normal with perspective. I think their normal means to live like their friends do. Off of family money. 1 day they will be the talking head or face of a company, but people will work for them and actually run everything.
So, their normal is exactly how they’re living now. taking without giving. And that would be fine if they weren’t public figures having the public pay for nearly everything.
FLORC, they’ll find a way to weasel out of Christmas Day with the Queen, even though Anmer is right next to the Church.
The home was a wedding present. It is a stretch to call it a bribe, imo. The helicopter, maybe.
Simply for inheritance purposes, I doubt HM deeded the property over to them. I think the “gift” is living there rent free, as she let the Duke and Duchess of Kent live there a few decades ago. I think it remains part of the Sandringham Estate and all of Sandringham will pass to Charles.
IMO the timeline doesn’t add up for it being related to the wedding. I also peg it as a later “gift/bribe” to make them 1) show up for work and 2) show up for Christmas. November 2010 engagement announcement. April 2011 marriage. News of Anmer hits January 2013. Everett family begins moving out summer 2013 (They lived there 13 years with four years remaining on the lease – originally through March 2017). September 2013 William leaves SAR.
Dame Snarkweek
Amner Hall came along well after the wedding came and went. The people living in Amner Hall at the time left the strong impression that until somewhat recently they intended to live out their lease. If that was a wedding present I think everything would have come along a bit sooner.
Timing seems off.
Although, some friends gave my husband and I gifts up to a year later and said to think of them as wedding presents.
Do you have a link maybe that predates that Christmas that says Amner Hall was always intended to be theirs?
I was mistaken about Anmer Hall being a wedding gift. Rather it was originally reported to be William’s 30th birthday gift. This negates the theory that the estate was a bribe, imo. William turned 30 in June 2012 well before January 2013, which is supposedly when many became aware of the queen’s intentions. William hadn’t even moved out of Anglessey yet and was residing at Nottingham Cottage when in London. It is possible that Kate’s pregnancy prompted the request that Anmer’s then current tenants vacate. Either way they would have been aware that they would not be able to finish out their lease and probably already had something lined up. Queen’s property = Queen’s rules. We could speculate as to why forever, I suppose. I believe it had more to do with Charles wanting his son to have a luxe country pile that would make him as happy as Highgrove made him. Everyone bends over backwards for William but this doesn’t mean it was a bribe. Even aristos enjoy spoiling their families – and Charles is notoriously generous.
FLORC
There are several problems with your timeline, as well.
William wasn’t given Anmer Hall as a bribe. There is no way he could have ducked out on Christmas with the queen when you say he did. News of Anmer going to William was public knowledge as early as June 2012 when William turned 30. He and Kate spent Christmas 2011, their first married Christmas, at sandringham with the Queen.
Christmas 2012 was spent with Kate’s family. She was pregnant, experiencing extensive morning sickness and opted to spend a quiet, low-key holiday at her parents’ home. As we all know Christmas at Sandringham is an age-old tradition with strictly adhered customs designed to make QE happy. In addition, hordes of press descend on the estate to cover the RF Christmas morning trek to the church. I don’t blame pregnant Kate for choosing pot roast and scrabble at mom and dad’s place. Besides, alternating holidays between families isn’t so scandalous, really.
Amner Hall wasn’t gifted until AFTER William missed christmas 2012 at Sandrigham , and the media about it was that it wasn’t available until 2017 with the tenants allowed to live out their lease.
He had already been given a house on Balmoral in the summer of 2012 as a birthday gift, so Amner Hall definitely came across as a bribe, and not something that HM had always intended to give them.
Fast forward to late 2013 and suddenly the tenants of Amner Hall had conveniently moved out and again, like KP charity, it was noted that HM had bought out their lease. It was noteworthy because the tenants run a business out of the barn, and suddenly had to move it elsewhere. The move was followed by strong rumours that William and the Middletons would be spending christmas 2013 at Amner Hall although that was also twisted to imply that the Middletons had been invited to the main house for Christmas.
The idea that it is a late wedding present isn’t entirely without merit because HM has tended to gift her family with homes after they wed, but there is a list of empty country houses to choose from, just like there was a list of empty KP flats to choose from. However, the gifting and renovation of Amner Hall seemed to have been done with indecent haste after all the chatter William’s skipped christmas caused.
LAK
Your dates are off, I’m afraid.
It was public knowledge as of June 2012 that the queen was gifting William the estate. I erroneously referred to it as a wedding present when in fact it was a 30th birthday present. William spent Christmas 2012 with the Middletons and his pregnant wife. So unless the queen is psychic she couldn’t have bribed William in June for something she didn’t want him to do in December. As for the Anmer tenants having to suddenly scramble away in late 2013 as you say, why would this be the case if it was published a year and a half earlier that Anmer was going to be William’s? Even if one allows that in 2012 no firm date was given surely by January 2013 the current tenants would have gotten a clue since plans for spring renovations were well known. A late 2013 upheaval simply makes no sense.
Notasugar
You and LAK seem to disagree on when the Anmer tenants left but as I’ve stated, the news that William would get Anmer was known in June 2012. The January 2013 timeframe you mention was merely another story written about it. It seemed connected to William not spending Christmas at Sandringham because the events were only publicized a few weeks apart. People drewv their own conclusions and endorsed it as the truth.
Dame Snarkweek
After doing some research on the exact dates and hunting down articles for reference points i’ve found that almost none agree with eachother on exact dates. Like most articles on the BRF or specifically W&K it’s hard to find 1 without a heavy bias. Either too much snarking or too much praise.
The articles I did find on the matter of when and why William received Amner Hall were dated after the fact. Nothing predated when William was informally given the building.
For those reasons I just can’t hold my own in this topic.
As many before me have said. The press plays fast and loose with timelines to promote the royals. And if there’s negative news out there the articles vanish.
I have a list of bookmarked links to reference articles on the BRF that now say webpage not found.
@FLORC. If you still have dates or partial titles (sometimes the link includes a lot of the title) you can try something like the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. Then save the text of the article to your computer, so you always have access to it.
I’ve found some “missing” articles by going through the free archive for some big sites (Guardian, Telegraph, DM). They have made it so some articles no longer come up when you do a search, but if you browse articles for certain time periods you can find them. ex. Articles by certain DM columnists can be found this way, or Mandrake articles on another site.
If they were published in hard copy and not just online, you may find them on microfilm or in a database at your library. Difficult to remove all evidence from those systems.
Notasugarhere
You just blew my mind. I had no idea of those routes!
Ultimately though, unless i’m hellbent on proving a point i’m not doing it. I’ve copy and pasted articles here before, but since they don’t come from a direct link they’re quickly dismissed. And to search by articles within a certain timeframe is not time I usually have. If I could post it a few times and be done with it I think I would. Here though every other person doesn’t believe this or that and demands a link while refusing to research it themselves.
I do appreciate the ways t seek out hard to find articles. I never knew that before!
“People drewv their own conclusions and endorsed it as the truth. ” As you are doing. Everyone gets to draw their own conclusions, yours are no more accurate or inaccurate than anyone else’s.
Dame: Notasugar and I aren’t off our timelines though we might differ on precise dates.
Based on everyone’s information about Amner Hall, I went back and had a look at available articles.
Firstly, my goodness there are so many articles about the place!! No wonder we all have such different pieces of the puzzle. And they are all pushing a different agenda for W.
1. Earliest article I can find is in the telegraph in June 2012 which says that W is to be gifted a cottage on Sandrigham to mark his 30th Birthday. Article goes on to say that no cottage has been earmarked because W is still in Wales carrying out his obligations to SAR and is unlikely to need a place immediately because he is so busy with SAR and also with all the changes going on with SAR, he is busy thinking about where his next future posting will be.
2. Amner Hall itself was announced early in January 2013 after William skipped out on Sandrigham christmas 2012. The reasons assumed were Kate’s need for a quiet christmas due to her alleged HG and yet the middletons and William managed to arrange a christmas pap stroll to church – this was noteworthy because it cause a mighty row in the UK, and i’ll wager is the point UK media started writing openly snarky articles about WK. The DM actually posted an editorial calling them out on the Christmas pap stroll.
The January 2013 articles make it very clear that Amner Hall would *eventually* go to WK. Lots of ‘earmarked’, ‘tenants will continue to live there until 2017’ phrasing across many articles. No suggestion at all that WK are to take it up immediately or even planning to live there on a permanent basis.
3. By September 2013, the first articles in the UK press appear saying that work had began on Amner Hall, the sitting tenants having been bought out during the summer by HM which meant WK were planning to occupy Amner Hall immediately.
4. By November 2013, the first articles appear with ‘Carole has been invited to Sandringham for Christmas’ headlines. These articles strongly suggest that Carole and the Middletons have been invited to the main house to spend it with HM…..i remember this particular phase of reporting because we discussed it here on CB and most people pointed out that Amner Hall was the more likely destination.
5. Most of the 2014 reporting has been primarily about the renovations and always as a bolt hole, not a permanent place of residence.
6. Only in the past month has the reporting changed to definitive Amner Hall as permanent place of residence rather than KP.
LAK
It seems the Telegraph should have had better sources because Katie Nicholl reported that William would be given Anmer Hall for his birthday. This was in the DM June 2012. So even though opinions vary widely on Nicholl there is no question she gets exclusive scoops. So the Telegraph didn’t name Anmer specifically but the DM did. And as you, yourself have stated, even the tabloids have well placed sources. It is there in black and white. The article also said Kate was experiencing morning sickness and didn’t want to deal with the Sandringham pace. Again, it is beyond dispute that Nicholl named Anmer and therefore anyone affiliated with the whole situation should have also known full well, especially by January 2013. Should we believe that the tenants were clueless despite an article written by a royal journalist appearing in a publication read by millions? Absolutely impossible. And if Will and Kate are being criticized for daring to spend a holiday away from Sandringham then the rf thinks too much of itself.will and Kate have spent 3 out of the past 4 Christmases at Sandringham.
Notasugar
You are quite mistaken. Where a fact is indisputable it ceases to be opinion. I’ve given facts as well as offered personal opinions based on my interpretations of facts and the opinions of others.
Dame: Katie Nicholl’s June 2012 articles about this issue doesn’t specify any cottage. It says, ‘ a cottage has been earmarked for WK to mark 30th Birthday’.
I’ve gone back to look at all her articles and she doesn’t give a name to the cottage until January 2013. Just like all the other reporters.
Her initial reporting about this cottage on Sandrigham is worded exactly like the telegraph article ie W is to be granted a cottage. In actual fact, she goes into detail about his other cottage in Scotland, and the fact that he had use of Wood Farm on Sandrigham. Wood Farm and Amner Hall aren’t the same cottages.
The cottage you are referring to in her June 2012 articles is very clearly stated as wood Farm which she says he has used in the past on many occasions.
Re: Christmas criticism of WK spending time at Middleton towers. They weren’t criticised for spending it there. Everyone had sympathy for Kate due to her alleged HG and the press had been asked to stay away, ONLY for WK and the middletons to arrange that pap stroll and the resulting pictures, exclusively controlled by them to appear in the papers – this pap stroll and resulting pictures is what drew criticism because the press had been respectful of their wishes upto that point. Being threatened for running the pictures that they had personally arranged (Ikon Pictures!), was too much and it caused an almighty row.
On a different note, I tend to take Kate Nicholls’s articles with a mighty shovel of salt because she’s a Middleton mouth piece. That’s not to say that she’s always wrong, but she’s always pushing a very transparent agenda and she’s frequently used as a canary.
As you clearly believe every word she says, especially about Kate, I should point you to her pre- 2008 articles in which she frequently said that Kate was a lazy, unambitious person with poor manners and simply existed to shop, party and vacation, in between waiting around for William.
In clear contradiction of her VF articles about the same period in which she says K is a wonderful person.
Previous reply disappeared. We are all looking at what “facts” can be found and drawing our own conclusions and opinions from those. We will all look at the same facts and we may all come up with different conclusions or opinions. No conclusion or opinion is right or wrong – can’t be.
I think LAK and I are talking about Christmas Day, the ONE day a year HM asks of her family.
Christmas Day 2010, spent apart, Wm in Wales, KM with the Middletons
Christmas Day 2011, with the Middletons
Christmas Day 2012, with the Middletons for the pap stroll
Christmas Day 2013, with the BRF
Freedom and play dates for George and his daddy! Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Seriously, if I were in my senior years still working a full schedule with two 30-ish do-littles acting like defiant children, I’d be miffed. But then again, none of this likely developed overnight.
The cliffhanger on the cover — How does the queen plan to punish HER? Shouldn’t it be THEM?
Me too….i want to know how HM plans to punish her.
And the 2 cover pictures!!! Oh my!
Yea, those photos are golden!
The Queen is notoriously bad at raising/influencing her children/grandchildren.
Charles messy marriage and even messier divorce. Williams messy academic education and his at best flaky working habits.
Anne divorced. She is the smartest one and got her children out of that royal mess.
Prince Andrew Randy Andy … daughters either don’t work or get nepotistic work. Sarah Ferguson…. . Oh dear.
Sophie and Edward seems to work as Sophie dedicates herself to her family and has given up her career. Both gave up their professional careers.
In one way William married somebody who seems to be the perfect wife – from his perspective: somebody even lazier and less devoted to anything professional than even himself. Kate sure drags down William.
How could the Queen ever agree to that marriage.
How comes Carole doesn’t grab her daugther(s) by her ears and gives her (them) a telling…
Chameleon
The York Sisters work real jobs. Or at least they did. Eugenie’s auction house job of course is because of what family she comes from. Have you ever tried to get a job at an auction house? It’s all nepotism and internal hiring.
Although, those girls have parents with really messy lives, but they turned out quite well. And their charity work is still mostly on their own dime and free time.
I tend not to judge people by their families mistakes and/or accomplishments. They’re their own and make their own paths.
And did the Queen agree to that marriage? Wasn’t she told minutes before the actual announcement?
And Kate doesn’t drag down William. I doubt anyone tells William what to do.
Christine NotsoSugar,
+1m Agree.
B*E York are hardworking, and they work with grannie HM a lot.
I doubt HM regret taking the throne, she was ready and seem brilliant even as a child. She also had very strong grannie Q Mary and QEi. Who trained and molded HM lifetime. Duty rule to the monarchy
Charmelon,
I see HM the Duke hands off the kids personal life _ as its their marriage /life. When it affects the monarchy the Firm BRF in a public then she buts in.
Millions wasted tax payers pounds, cooked up emergency job (not) to avoid royal duties and ease ma carole grand plan to social climbing (and Title husband for Pips lazy doolittle 2); POW stay out for PGTips and Willnot middleton, but now people fuming of the waste, HM stepping in or pretending.
I wonder if Prince Phillip the one who is the major supporter of Will and his desire to “be a man”, and have a career.
Kate doesn’t seem to care about anything concerning royalness. She just seems to be an ordinary girl…very ordinary!
All of them make feeble attempts when it comes to orchestrating public opinion. It’s hard to believe that they condemn KP as some sort of prison; it’s a royal lair! Oh well…they can do anything (because they are royal).
Isn’t Beatrice unemployed? She worked for awhile and then quit. I hadn’t heard of a new job. She is on the London and imternational party scene quite a bit. She and Eugenie were friendly (or maybe still are) with the Suki Waterhouse/Cara Delevigne group. (And speaking of dating royals–why doesnt Dave Clark ever get called out? He works for Richard Branson but the guy is always on vacation with Beatrice it seems and they’ve been dating for forever. He seems skeevy and I happen to like Bea well enough so i hope he’s not or if he is she dumps him and moves on.) Eugenie was an intern but the job is going to a permanent status. So it looks like she will be based in NYC for awhile longer.
Neither Beatrice nor Eugenie do genuinely work.
Both got several jobs / job placements through nepotism. Beatrice – not known for academic success – seriously tried to get into finance/banking some time ago.
Eugenie got that job with that auction house due to her families’ connections. They wouldn’t have taken her on if she wasn’t a granddaughter of the Queen.
Eugenie apparently managed two A-levels in Art and English Literature and a B in history of art. That is far from brilliant and those subjects are EASY. English Literature excludes anything English linguistics (Phonetics, Semiotics, Morphology, Syntax…) . It is like studying only half the language and it is the easy option. “English” is the more challenging option. And these were the best A-levels ever achieved by any member of the royal family.
And easy she continued. Eugenie studied English literature and history of art and got a lousy 2:1 degree. A very good one would be 1:1. A good one would be 1:2. Next is 2:1.
So Eugenie DID NOT get the grades to win a place at a famous auction house in a fair competition.
In the end: Somehow Eugenie managed to keep her job while Beatrice didn’t. I wonder what she does do there. Caring and entertaining clients or any actual work?
I hope W&K keep complaining about how horrible KP-living is just to see if QE2 calls their bluff & takes at least some of those 21 KP rooms back & leases them back to charity organizations.
I agree ChRistine.
Willy is part of the problem too. Willy get ‘royal’ pass 😉
Millions wasted tax payers pounds. And cooked up emergency job (not), make me feel P Willnot have something on dad POW: PC seem to have a hands off to spoil Willy, and that carole muddletons already added and corrupt. More Willy indulgence workless Royal. the duties to the people.
PC if hands off, thinking he is POW waiting, and Willy may be waiting decades: but PC could pass before HM or soon after.
PC hands off Willnot so unlike King (Prince) Harry, who embrase without question the royal dedication and hardwork from Di POW, HM. And the Duke PC. Other hardworking royals.
Recent shopping excursion write up must have bring things to head with HM -finally!! . No TIARAs for workless shop empress Waity doolittle! HM give them long rope then she and the Duke reel in when become seriously flawed and people start complaining.
+1000
HRH QE2 and the Duke make np bones about her legacy and the monqchy history with the people GB UK and Commonwealth, she is our Queen and no muddletons is gooing to run rough shot over what they know nothing about.
Ww just need to look at the wedding dress display and. HM resounding disapproval.
AH was given as holiday country reaidence not for hifing from royal duty for in laws advantage to hang on and social climb and not for Waity doolittle shopping sprees and hidden agenda. KP is understood to be the base for royals dutoes to be carried out. Even King Harry (PH). Seem blinded by willnot and lazy Waity new move.
Why did this silly girl marry into a life of service if she didn’t want to do the service?
She could have easily become the wife of a wealthy business man and spent her days decorating, shopping and lunching without anyone judging her. Her lifestyle isn’t offensive if you are a RHOC, but it is when you’re a princess living on the public purse.
Queen 1 Kate 0
Wealthy businessmen like wives with merits (and money).
Businessmen tend to admire merits and accomplishments as those often translate into a successful career and a well-developed and well-rounded personality.
Kate has no merits and no accomplishments and she doesn’t develop. She is a history of art graduate and didn’t manage to have the walls in her appartment painted in a nice colour. It turned out to be creamish-pink (colour of expensive bor__de**llos) and had to be re-done.
If she can earn her money herself there is a better chance she doesn’t marry him for the money but for love. I doubt Kate married for noble reasons.
If she can earn her money herself then she has some appreciation for paid work.
Kate doesn’t have any kind of appreciation for paid work which is astonishing given where she comes from.
Chameleon…I agree that’s one mold, but I think a lot of wealthy men seek docile wives with the illusion of pedigree (I.e. a prestigious college degree they don’t use). From an American standpoint, Kate could’ve taken her pick of wealthy men, but from a British standpoint the goal was to land a title, the true sign of upward mobility.
@Bettyrose Exactly. The wife should be educated and sophisticated enough to be accepted in aristo crowd but shouldn’t steal the attention from her husband. This is an unwritten rule in old money families. That is why they flirt with movie stars and singers but end up with a socialite.
Everyone has merits. Kate’s problem is that her determination to make it work with Will and building her whole life around him seemed to completely kill the promise she held before heading off to St. Andrews. People would be surprised to see who Kate used to be before she met Will. If I had a daughter there’s no way I could watch her do this to herself. Of course there is the possibility that Kate is quite content now. I could believe it were it not for my suspicion that she might have an eating disorder. I don’t think it is anorexia or bulemia but probably body dysmorphia. Boy am I off topic, lol.
Dame
You drifted off topic, but I still agree with your main points.
And no daughter she ever feel their worth comes from how well they marry. Or that they need to marry someone like that at all.
FLORC
Agree although I believe Kate married for status and love, just like her mom. Carole and Michael have a loving relationship but he brought a lot of goodies to the table. I don’t think her daughters would have ever dated paupers but I also think they need to love/admire their partners. I, however, think a girl should love herself first and most of all.
Dame
You’re on point with how people should approach relationships. Be happy with yourself and things will come along.
The way Carole raised her daughters, bought the flat, best schools, clothes, etc… She wanted them exposed to only the higher class. And I get that. What I don’t get is how it was common knowledge William wasn’t respectful to Kate and Carole reportedly by solid sources, helped Kate get William’s eye again.
I think a lot had to do with William had the best title, Kate invested the most time (and almost all of her 20’s) with him, and any children as well as Kate would be cared for should a divorce occure.
Lastly, I do think Kate loves William. Maybe in a dependent and not mutual respect way, but still love. William? I just don’t know. He loves her and her family, but does he adore her like so many couples in the public eye that ooze love with stolen glances and hand holding? No.
Sure, why would she take the advice of someone who’s been doing the job she’s likely to have one day, brilliantly, for over half a century? That silly girl just doesn’t get it. Acting as she does – throwing taxpayers’ money away and refusing to work properly for the country in return – spits in the face of every ordinary person in the UK.
If Kate wanted “a normal life” perhaps she shouldn’t have desperately clung to the future King of England and set her sights on someone else.
Whether this story is true or not, I think the queen may be somewhat disappointed in the golden child, William and his reluctance to do his royal part. He seems like he is just determined to do what he wants, and that’s fine, get out of the line of succession and be like the Duke of Windsor.
It does seem to be piled on. They got their KP apartment because the 1st one offered wasn’t private enough. They decorated it and then redecorated it quickly and spending more to hurry it along only to abandon it for the country because even George needs more privacy.
Really? I just don’t know how this is acceptable.
Kate looks like the Grinch in that pic.
I think that picture on the magazine cover looks almost exactly like her royal portrait. That’s not a good thing.
LOL Inconceivable! ITA
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/Portrait_of_Catherine,_Duchess_of_Cambridge.jpg
@Inconceivable/Sharon Lea – Wow… So do we think L & S doctored the image? Or is this just her without photoshop? If so, does mean the royal portrait we all thought was far from the truth, is actually accurate? Meaning, we’ve been seeing photoshopped photos for so long we have somewhat mislead about her true appearance….????
I wish FLORC was here lol.
Haha! Dame I have arrived! And you gave me a much needed laugh 🙂
That royal portrait was very well done. The artist had many photos taken and Kate approved of them. As she approved of the artist to make her 1st official royal portrait. He’s very talent and realistic.
http://paulemsley.com/works/
His work is incredible!
I’m going to let the portraits speak for themselves. And Kate’s skin has a fuzzy glaze over it, but she (like most of us) have moles, blemishes, pox marks, etc… To assume she has no imperfections is absurd. She’s human.
It’s unfair that Kate is getting the brunt of this. William decided they would move, W sets the pace in their (lack) of work, W owns Kate. If W wanted Kate to work more, shop less, and take fewer vacays, she would. Of course the fact that she’s a Stepford wife is troubling, but…. (sigh)
I don’t think Kate feels restrained by her not working more. They’re two birds of a feather when it comes to work ethics. I think she loves not working but loves just playing around & pampering herself. I don’t think he’s making her be like this. I think she’s naturally this way & wants this type of life to continue as is, with no force of change.
About jewelry: I think the Queen isn’t letting Kate to wear more of the grand state jewelry because it’s supposed to be worn for work and special occasions. Kate does minimum so there is no need for her to wear jewelry that has symbolic meaning.
Kate and William did a HUGE tour in East Asia and visited many heads of state.
Nevertheless Kate didn’t get any MAJOR jewelry except for that maple leaf brooch and that tiara and that necklace she wore once.
No brooches.
No rings.
No bracelets.
No necklace (except that one she managed to cover with her hair).
No pieces to be worn in her hair.
Kate has been to quite some glamorous events but she didn’t even get her wedding tiara let alone a brooch for those. That Ark foundation gala. That horse movie premiere (War Horse?). Those events in museums. It would have been perfectly appropriate to wear a brooch there.
I do believe that the Queen won’t give Kate any serious jewelry cause she is aware of the dislike for Kate.
Kate wore some jewelry when they went on a tour to Canada. Baby steps.
I think that it would be hard for the queen to respect Kate, after the surprise declaration of their marriage, just as it was to be released to the public. Is that how things are done in the BRF? Don’t they *ask* first? William doesn’t seem to play the game, that is, the traditions. (grrrrr – Christmas at the Middletons…or flip in the face with KP).
In most RFs the monarch has to give consent to the marriage – in some countries the government also has to give consent
The thing is Kate is NOT getting to wear Major pieces from the Royal vault. She’s getting to wear a few things but most of her jewelry is new jewelry which she can take with her, she’s getting things that the Palace is not worried about her keeping. Take away jewelry ,…just in case , for now. Even Sophie got more jewelry and the Queen has opened the vault for Sophie more.
As far as living at AnMer Hall, Kate basically will follow William.
But William is playing a game with the public, because he has no real intention of being ensconced as family man at AnMer Hall,,he will probably be staying at the AirA housing whatever that is.
I think Kate will be spending most of her time with her mother,either at AnMer Hall or at Middleton Manor,while William is busy during the week. It will be a weekend marriage, IMO.
I agree Frances and others-
Lazy Workless Waity have not earn respect, proven any worth for o access to the vault.
The Muddletons will want to hang on at AH, that’s part of the reason to move from KP. The Firm HM and PC may have objected to ma Carole and Muddletons hangers on at KP, not royal protocol.
Ma carole convince willnot middleton to move to AH. Out of public view. Workless Waity ma carole and social climbers hangers on muddleton fam will be the tipping of the House of Windsor the monarchy.
PC allow WillNOT with his non traditrion workless with royal duties, to avoid a showdown with his son. But will come to head eventually with his hangers on ‘muddletons’.
I don’t think the Queen’s not opening the vault and telling Kate to take whatever she wants is in any way a snub.
The Queen is big on rank and place, putting ladies of the Blood Royal ahead of those who marry into the family.
Camilla got her goodies because she’s wearing the Queen Mother’s jewels, and she’s married to the next heir to the throne. Charles was left quite a bit of the Queen Mother’s private property, including a castle in Scotland. Perhaps she left him her private collection of jewels as well.
After ten years or so of marriage, when she’s proven her worth, Kate, like Sophie, will get better jewels. Also, remember, all the the jewelry in the Royal Collection will be at Kate’s disposal in the future if she becomes queen. But for now, she the newest and least of the royal ladies in spite of who she married.
Hopefully she’ll know how to wear them by then. I think that it must take time to get the imperial and entitled look. She is getting lots of practice concerning entitlement.
Camilla’s interesting because EII has gifted/loaned her some very historic pieces including a brooch of Queen Victoria’s as well as one of the tiaras most associated with her beloved grandmother Queen Mary.
I really don’t think Kate has it in her to oppose anyone.
I have long since thought that Kate is very “uncomplicated”, shall we say, up there. She is not a person given to deep thoughts, or on pondering what purpose she serves in life. Most people, by the time they get into late adolescence or early adulthood, have moments of wondering about the purpose of life. Sometimes it is precipitated by a death of a grandparent, or some other event such as moving away from home. It usually marks the beginnings of the maturation of the young person.
Kate seems to have a very simple disposition- always sunny. I am basing this on before she married into the RF, where I realize she has to smile and appear affable. Both Pippa and Kate have always been very smiley.
I really believe this has been one of her attractions for William. She’s uncomplicated, turns a blind eye and knows better than to sulk when he strayed, and doesn’t complicate his life with demands which all wives are entitled to in a marriage, like equal share of child-care, fidelity, respect. With laser-like focus, she has made being his wife her #1 priority. That must have been flattering to any man – until it disgusts them.
Completely agree. And this is the thing I think makes her suitable not only to William but to the queen, Phillip and the rest of the RF. Diana, as much as I was annoyed with her approach to things and manipulation of the media, brought them to their knees because over time her independent will came to the fore and she was unwilling to just shut up. Besides taking up the spotlight through her work and natural charisma/X factor, she spoke out. Doing what she did with the Morton book would have gotten her beheaded in medieval times, it was that against the grain for royalty. So that’s why I think this story is bs. The queen, William, all of them are only too happy to have someone like Kate who knows not to make any waves.
I only wonder if Kate will have an awakening at some point, like once the baby-making years are done and she’s gotten everything she always wanted: title, tiara, mother of the King. It’s fairly typical, especially if you’ve never faced any life challenges until that point, in my view.
And yes I also wonder at point William will want something different.
I think Kate already had her “A-Ha!” moment in life & decided she just wants a life of fluff & nonsense. Even after she ticks off everything on her list of stuff she wants in life, there’s always going to be more ways to spend her time & money goofing off.
Kate will be sad and bitter. Many people who never attempted to make something within their means out of their life do regret it later on. Mid-life crisis.
Regarding medieval times:
There’s a great example of a queen that didn’t get the respect she deserved from her husband, who was busy with his male favorites: isabella of France, Edward II’s queen. She took a lover, rebelled against her husband, imprisioned him and most likely had him executed. Eleanor of Aquitaine divorced one royal husband (king of France) because he would rather pray than visit her bed and she rebelled against another royal husband (Henry II) because he wouldn’t share power (and perhaps because he took a mistress).
The beheading of royal wives was solely the the province of Henry VIII – for not giving him sons or being unfaithful.
History is often stranger than fiction – history is full of strongwilled and cunning royal ladies, who schemed and fought as they deemed necessary. The idea of a docile wife, royal and otherwise, is very much a product of Victorian times. Until then royal and aristocratic women often wielded power and influence in many ways, openly or underhanded.
Hi ArtHistorian
Just rereading biography of Mary, Queen of Scots. There’s a royal woman to scare the daylights out of a nation!….every step she took seems to have been the wrong turning. So in thrall to the worst romantic choices, to the exclusion of all sense. Last time I read it I was miserably depressed by her story….I hope another go will wash that away, though by gawd she was a rum one.
AH: the funny thing about Victoria is that she refused to share her power no matter how much she adored Albert and shared a desk with him.
Yet, she was a strong proponent of women being chained to the kitchen sink and was strongly anti-feminist, going as far as recommending that they be whipped – thank goodness no one followed through on that directive.
Going back to royal consorts/Queens, it annoys me beyond measure when people claim that Kate is following some mythical tradition of royal women being docile, something that isn’t true if you study history. It’s actually easier to count the docile consorts/queens.
I also think HM has been a very docile, dull, uninspired monarch no matter that I enjoy the pageantry and jewels.
Chris: Mary, Queen of Scots makes me so mad. Stupid, stupid woman who was always in thrall to which ever douche lord she was involved with. Catherine Medici had her number and said she would be trouble because she was so silly and boy was she right.
Chris,
I recommend Leonie Freida’s biography of Catherine de Medici. It is a fascinating read that puts this very controversial woman into a wider historical and political perspective. She had many flaws and made some really bad decisions, but for better or worse she held France together as a nation for 30 years, during a time of intense internal political and religious strife. During her time, France had about 3 religious civil wars and the country could very easily had been torn in half, into a Protestant and a Catholic part, because some of the Huegenot leaders were powerful nobles.
She also had another reason to dislike Mary, Queen of Scots: her mother was a Guise. The Guises were a very powerful and ambitious noble family and she feared their rising influence because the Dauphin (later Francois II) was married to a Guise (even though her last name was Stuart), Mary had been raised at the French court, surrounded by her Guise cousins, since she was a little girl. I suspect that Catherine was quite relieved when Mary left France after the death of Francois II.
In human terms, Catherine de Medici’s story is quite sad. She loved her husband intensely but he loved the elegant Diane de Poitiers, who was 20 years his senior – she was even given the job of overseeing the royal children’s upbringing and education. And she outlived many of her children.
Arty
Can I just bask in the warm glow of someone, anyone talking about the Plantagenets? These two were the tempestuous Edward and Bella centuries before Twilight, lol. Isabella was no long suffering saint nor was she the ‘she-wolf of France’ Reminds me all over again that history is written by the winners.
Or a well funded royal PR firm. I’m looking at you, Chuck.
Art Historian, please please turn your pen toward writing a mini series on the Diane and Catherine show? The story of France during the reign of Henry II, with these two strong willed women staring at each other across the landscape, is fascinating.
This is why I come to these royal threads!
Thanks! I love to find other likeminded people when it comes to my nerdy interest in history.
Dame,
Have you ever seen The Lion in Winter? Peter O’Toole as Henry II and Katharine Hepburn as Eleanor of Acquitaine going to verbal war against each other for 2 hours! It is epic!
Suze,
Sadly, I suck at writing fiction, but I have actually toyed with an idea of writing an English language biography of one of the most interesting Danish royal ladies – Leonora Christina, daughter of king Crhistian IV by a morganatic marriage, Married to the Chancellor Corfitz Ulfeldt, who embezzeled most of the state funds, fled to Sweden and aided the Swedish king in invading Denmark in the 1650s. He was then convicted for high treason (against the Swedish king!), where she led his defense in court. They fled to Denmark, were arrested by her half-brother, the king, put in prison, where they attempted an escape that almost succeeded. Later they were released, and when they travelled to Paris, her husband started plotting again – she ended up in prison in Denmark for 22 years, where she wrote two memoirs. One of her early life and one of her life in prison. The latter is now recognized as one of the great pieces of Danish litterature. Years ago I worked on an exhibition of a Danish painter that had illustrated her entire life story.
Queen Margrethe I would also be a great subject for a biography (though less source material in the medieval age). She ws the daughter of one of the great Danish kings. Married to the King of Norway, and when her father died she got her infant son elected as king of Denmark with herself as regent. She ruled Scandinavia until her death! She was also the architect behind the Kalmar Union that unified Denmark, Norway and Sweden under Danish rule (for a while). She was also educated by a daughter of St. Birgitta of Vadstena.
I’m currently looking for a biography about the Tigress of Forli, Catarina Sforza.
Here are two biographies of Caterina Sforza you might like, AH. One is “The Tigress of Forli” by Elizabeth Lev and “Caterina Sforza: A Renaissance Virago” by Ernst Breisach. And I’ve seen Lion in Winter several times and find that to be such an incomparable movie. I can’t see anyone else but Peter O’Toole and Katherine Hepburn in those roles. Such a loving family! 😉
Feesshalori,
Thanks for the recommendations!
Suze,
Princess Michael of Kent has actually written a novel about Henry II, Diane de Poitiers and Catherine de Medici! It is titled “The Serpent and the Moon”.
@Art Historian – OK, my brain just exploded. The convergence of Princess Michael, Diane De Poitiers and Catherine de Medici is insane. I’m off to look for the book. I’m off to look for it NOW.
Thank you very much!
(This is why I read CB – where on earth would I find out about these things otherwise???)
The series “The Tudors” is an extremely well-done production, and on Netflix. Henry VIII’s need to behead the wives, soon to be ex, only shows me his fear of their soft power.
I like the Tudors. The show generally gets things right (like the fact that Henry VIII was a hypochondriac) but it also takes huge liberties as well (the whole plot around the king’s sister murdering her decrepit old husband of a king). It has some great actors – Natalie Dormer was wonderful as Anne Boleyn and Peter O’Toole stole every scene in season 2! The costumes are to die for, however it did get a lot of the jewelry wrong – the Tudor royal ladies didn’t wear tiaras, but bejewelled hoods.
I wouldn’t want to oppose the Queen either though. Anyone who goes up against her seems to lose.
If that’s true I’m a bit jealous – I tend to over think things. I try to tone it down and Would be nice to have such a sunny disposition naturally.
@may23 – I think a “sunny disposition” comes easier when one simply just doesn’t “think”. Kate’s strikes me as someone who takes things as they come and doesn’t ask any questions. While I can also over think/over analyze things (and it has kept me up plenty of nights), I think people should be proud that they ask questions and have a natural curiosity.
HH
Agree. Only instead of saying doesn’t think I’m leaning more towards she doesn’t question. Keep quiet, keep the peace, when you’re told to do something you do it. That’s how you keep your lifestyle.
Smile, and she is successful (with those fake teeth, that I want). All she has to do is smile on the days that she’s on. Diana remarked about how she had to “put on a face” many times before her engagements…even that she had been in tears beforehand, and carried a make-up bag for said purpose.
This is what I see in her too, Becks.
They are both naturally ‘young fogeys’ too, well suited in that respect as well.
I can’t imagine William summoning up the necessary fire to pursue an extra-marital fling, and Kate knows which side her bread is buttered, so I imagine these two will endure. Gawd I hope so, we had enough drama with the previous generation.
Ingrid Seward once said that Prince a William is very sneaky and does a lot that goes unreported because he’s protected, even by the press.
I think William may surprise us one day with what he really gets up to. JMO
@Chris – which side the bread is buttered? Is it a British expression? I love it! Never heard it before. Keep ’em coming, please! Love learning new bits of wisdom from all over the world!
Itsetsyou
Yes! As you’ll have gathered, it means she knows when she’s well off, and how to protect that situation.
Another you may like, Irish this time, is ‘she’s not so green as she’s cabbage looking’…..meaning don’t underestimate her. (Not applying that to Kate, just thought you’d enjoy it)
@Chris Love it!
Come on Chris, we are up for drama!
I’m not so sure about her being uncomplicated and sunny. I read she was severely bullied at one of the colleges she went to. Sweet, sunny people who get along with everyone by not opposing don’t get bullied…
That bullying story about Downe was proven false. The story was that other girls put feces in her bed, but Middleton was a day student and had no bed. 1-2 years later, the family sent Pippa to Downe House instead of Marlborough (where KM transferred). If your older daughter was horribly bullied, why send your younger daughter to the same school? If KM *had* been bullied, they would have sent Pippa to Marlborough not Downe.
It wasn’t severe bullying. It was more along the lines of persistent and extreme meangirling by the aristo girls. Kate found herself in a world far different from the cozy, posh environment she enjoyed at Marlboro. Down House was harder to navigate. The girls were city girls from wealthy and powerful families. Fashion, boys and girl politics were more of a battlefield game than Kate was used to. Say what you will but the Middleton girls were raised in a wholesome, loving and rather innocent home as young girls. Kate was out of her depth, hadn’t blossomed yet, was tall, skinny and awkward and the school beauties delighted in tormenting her.
But despite later claims it was not a case of classic bullying, per se. Kate was simply unequiped to handle adversity. She was losing weight rapidly and becoming reclusive, a pattern she still repeats when unhappy. Her parents met with the school administrators and decided to pull the plug. Once she settled in at St Andrews Prep she really came into her own and fared well. But she was far from aggressive or even much of a stand out until her last two years.
Actually, she was one of the girls hand-picked by administration to be a Guardian – an older girl tasked with mentoring incoming girls who may feel awkward or nervous their first year. Kate was considered to be nurturing, calm and approachable. These factors coupled with what she, herself, had experienced at Down House made her a natural choice, according to school officials who were later interviewed.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – people would be surprised at how much Kate has gone downhill because of her relationship with William. It was her choice, of course, but if William thought about anyone other than himself he might actually feel guilty about his role in Kate’s unravelling.
Exactly the bullying story was said to be false, several the other girls and a teachers at the school said basically it never happened.
Was the bullying story something was actually stated by the palace or was it spun whole cloth by the press after her patronages were announced? I disremember.
In any event, my speculation was that if there was any bullying, it was more of a situation where Kate did not feel she fit in, rather than overt bullying in the sense of feces on the bed or pushing or screaming names at each other.
Kate went to Marlborough after Downe House. In terms of social circles, very little difference between the two. One can’t say what types of people favour one school over the other given that they are drawing from the same pool.
Boarding school life isn’t for everyone. Some kids don’t settle or take to it especially day students at a boarding school.
The fact is that whilst teasing and joshing does take place at all schools, the further step into bullying and or meangirling is very, very rare and very severely punished. There is no way Kate would have been allowed to leave Downe House without her tormentors also being asked to leave. Pastoral care in many boarding schools is excellent. School life is more Enid Blyton than Slytherin!!
I think in this RF, if you’re ambitious, you’ll chafe at the boundaries set for you. They don’t seem to ask for intelligence, this family. Just the ability to smile and look interested at even the most boring events.
After all, ambitious women in the RF tended to be dangerous to the kings.
It is pitiful, this lack of apparent intelligence or ambition of WK (other than their “selfish” ones). Of course they have the courtiers to make them appear more interesting. And the public seems thrilled if a royal merely smiles in their direction.
Excellent analysis!
It looks like the Queen gets styled at the same salon as her bichon friese- nothing like being able to get groomed along with your pets. And Kate could spice up her look with a spiral perm.
LOL! That’s just nasty. True, the Queen’s coiff IS a tad outdated, but, I rather like it.
Kate needs to CHOP her hair to shoulder length…it would much better suit her face. Those long, dry looking and boring locks do nothing for her.
Kate is not the queen’s daughter in law.
+1
Never ever would Stepford-Kate clash with any of the born royals. She knows the only way to stay part of the family is playing the passive wife who produces no big scandals.
IMO she doesn’t think at all about the royal family or her position in it, other than using her status as William’s whatever to bully Beatrice and Eugenie through the years. It has always been about the status of being with Prince William, not about William the person.
The idea of serving her country in exchange for the perks, or comprehending her place in the British Royal Family, doesn’t occur to her. Yes, William plays a significant role in that attitude – but she chose to make nothing of herself or her life. She was never going to change the world — she’s bone lazy and always has been.
These two think that whatever they do is just fine, because 1) it is what they want to do and 2) nobody matters but them. W&K are doing their best to alienate themselves from the BRF, not be a part of it.
Bully the York princesses through the years?? Since when did mutual dislike and moderate cattiness on the part of both sets of sisters equal Kate bullying Beatrice and Eugenie through the years? And I’m sorry but I’ve noticed that you often state the apartment in KP has 57 rooms instead of 21 rooms.these are exaggerations.
Allegedly :
Kate was mean to Beatrice at a party. Katie Nicholl was there and ended up in the bathroom with a crying Princess Beatrice and Bea told her exactly what went down. Beatrice was in tears and there are direct quotes in the story, Katie Nicholl made sure to give direct quotes of what went down that night.
If you look through the original designs and books when Princess Margaret lived there, it is listed as having 57 rooms. You can find maps of Kensington that show 9-12 rooms per floor in 1A, 5 floors in 1A. One difference is (guessing), that in the USA every room in the house is counted as a room, no matter the size or use. It seems like in descriptions of manor houses, only certain types of rooms are counted. Or they list the number of public rooms as the number of rooms in the property and list bedrooms separately.
The 9 staff bedrooms aren’t counted by some people, a “box room” isn’t counted (most people would considered it a small home office and count it). Overall, it has 57 rooms of varying sizes in that 5 story “Apartment 1A” all of which is “theirs.” Some rooms for staff, smaller rooms that some people wouldn’t count, but it is 57 rooms (including 3 family kitchens and one for staff). Pretending that those other rooms “don’t count” because their staff are in them is disingenuous and underplays the sheer size of the property they abandoned.
Notasugar
Thanks for the breakdown. I think the renovations are not excessive once it is itemized. They will make 1A modern, safe and appropriate for the Cambridges and any future residents. The apartment will also be a much more comfortable and amenable place for the staff that has to live and work there. One of the remodeled kitchens, a break room and new laundry center represent some of the niceties that benefit the staff directly. George doesn’t have his own kitchen – the smaller of the three renovated kitchens is for family alone and of course benefits the baby. Overall the apartment is now a showpiece and will only be a credit to the country. This is true even if the Cambridges deserve criticism. My only problem is that other national properties will have to wait even longer to get renovations. This is unfair especially in light of the fact that the Cambridges will not use it as a primary residence.
Dame
I think mutual dislike is absolutely what happened. When someone acts upon that dislike to humiliate another it’s steps up to bullying. That’s my understanding.
The York girls likely participated in William and Harry’s circle teasing Kate and her family, but the dates add up that it happened after Kate took action on her dislike of the Yorks. We can only speculate, but maybe the Yorks laid off the teasing until they had reason.
Francis
KN was great until she flipped her opinion on Kate. From disgust to adore so quickly.
All the fundraising and formal events take place in another space at KP, not in 1A. A “showpiece” paid for by the taxpayers and they will never be allowed to see it or use it. I wouldn’t call that a credit to a country where 23% of the people overall (and 31% of children) live in poverty.
The much smaller space that Prince and Princess Michael of Kent have in KP? Sometimes listed as five bedrooms and 5 reception rooms, other places seven bedrooms, nine reception rooms. Counted the Apartment 1A way, that would be billed as “5 rooms” or “nine rooms” total. 1A: Formal kitchen, family kitchen, nursery kitchenette, plus staff kitchen.
It is fitting that Kate has to curtsey to the York girls, by order of the Queen.
Notasugar
If you are going to talk about the poverty stricken people of the realm then I will have to just bite my tongue because the entire rf would let everyone starve before they would give up one jot of their stolen lifestyles. Cutting ribbons helps them sleep better at night but they are all culpable, imo.
Dame
But George does have his own Kitchen. Although, it’s not a true kitchen. It’s a bottle prep station. Steam sanitizers, storage, and meal preps. Not larger than a closet really. I’m sure their family kitchen also has the ability to handle this, but staffers do not go in there to do all of that. Kate can. William can. Staff has their own dedicated station for George.
The rest of the BRF are smart enough to realize that have to at least pretend to care, and through those efforts money is raised for charity and some people are made happier. Step up or step aside in the family firm. There is no justification for failing to step up, even if everyone else in the family firm is *almost* as spoiled as W&K.
That pic of the queen peeking out from the shoulders of those guys…omg hilariously perfect.
So good, right?
Well if William is that grumpy about having to be king, then let him abdicate and make Harry king. He’d do it with a smile. HARRY for KING!!!
Harry would make the best King, ever! He’s charming, has a personality, and doesn’t mind working. He’s established the Invictus games (yes, along with the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge (what a load of crap) and the Ministry of Defense, which is probably the most recognizable charity in GB. (IMHO: It was all Harry’s idea and he attached Will and Kate to it because he loves them.) I think when William becomes King he will abolish the Monarchy (has William ever said what he would have liked to do as a career if he were not attached to the RF?) and then second guess himself for the rest of his life …
Meself, I think it’s better the way it stands, (not that anything’ll change in the first place.)
Harry can get more done, because he’s more free, and he can attract positive reactions to the very idea of a royal family, and so he’s very useful in that respect, given the increased scrutiny/querying of the RF these days.
Were he king, I think his greatest talents would be wasted. As monarch, we may as well have the duller brother really, since his elevated position will surely be sufficient to make up for what’s lacking in terms of spirit. (HMQ’s never been a ball of fire, and her unwaveringly stolid character is greatly admired.) Of course I’m ignoring all the bad press against him and Kate, in saying this, but I do doubt that it will persist right up to his accession.
There’s a great saying, “Imitation is the best form of flattery” which Harry seems to be an advocate of by taking a good idea and tailoring it to suit his organization’s needs.
Oops, wrong place, meant to post it downthread.
Harry is sitting in a made up job organizing parades. He’s not really doing more engagements than William. He is more engaging and fun, which is easy when you’re not even the spare anymore. I’d bet that his interest in being King is essentially zero.
(He also should stop making fun of William losing his hair. Starting to thin a bit, himself, and nothing looks more ridiculous than the balding playboy. See Prince Albert for a perfect example. )
The Invictus Games are a bit more than a parade.
Yes, they are. However, they’re also simply a British version of the U.S. Warrior games, so I’m saving my kudos for whomever actually came up with the idea. He did do a great job selling the idea.
Maybe Harry will stop teasing William about losing his hair when William stops teasing Harry about being a ginger. Turnabout being fair play.
Harry continues to have a full-time job in the Army while William hasn’t worked an outside job in a year. On top of that Harry does royal duties, which William ducks as often as possible.
What is your opinion of Harry’s work with Halo Trust? Or Sentebale, the charity he co-founded at age 19/20 with Prince Seeiso of Lesotho?
That was quite dismissive, RobN. He freely admitted he stole the idea from the Americans as he thought it great and wanted to do the same thing. And he’s increased its scope dramatically.
We don’t know if it’s going to be a success yet, but I’m not going to slag the guy for trying.
RobN
Did you have words against Eunice Kennedy Shriver when she stole the theme of the Olympics for the Special Olympics?
Had Harry said he had an original idea in this we would have reason to give the side eye. Instead he took a good idea and tailored it to his charitable wants and desires. And he did play a huge role in getting this going. An event of this size conceived and executed within a year is madness. He didn’t just sit back and let other people do the work. He had to get on the phone and have loads of meetings
for this to take off like it did. His name and presence was crucial to the speed.
Harry and William are brothers that tease eachother. They don’t need anyone to make a big deal of these things and come to their defense when they act like it’s nothing, but a sibling joke.
Bluhare
I think it’s already a success. With money and support yes. Also, the participants, and the general feeling of wanting to be there for it. When you break it down vets come back needing so much. These events bring out a community of people you otherwise might not know about. So, people feel less alone.
I was with a medic crew for a few of these style of events. The same people come back. They’re having the time of their lives. After the games end the people don’t disconnect. They remain a community. It really was incredible to witness.
With that said if Harry wants to copy a great idea like this good for him. And as it stands he barely took credit for any of it. He (at the very least) threw his weight behind it to make sure it all got pulled together.
On a side note. I was a mess that whole event. Veterans who lost limbs, problem solving skills, family, etc could sulk, but they have such a bright outlook on everything. I was just a sobbing mess, but was giggling with them through it all.
FLORC – you’ll have me in tears and blubbering…
There’s the saying, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” and if Harry borrows from other successful organizations to adapt to his own and does good by it, then kudos to him!
Well… I believe A LOT of things written about the BRF… but not this one. The Queen broke the lease on Anmer Hall to give it to William. The Queen allowed them to choose their apartment at KP. And I think the only reason Kate isn’t being given (loaned) big guns jewels is because she hasn’t put in the work. I firmly believe that if she and Wills were full time working royals, she’d be decked out. I also think these two will never divorce.
She will never willingly divorce him, however Judging by his current behaviour (a distinct lack of direction and commitment to anything) he’ll eventually get bored of family life and stray. Give it a couple of more children before rumours of his affairs start. She’ll turn a blind eye as she is desperate to be Queen.
He doesn’t want to be King, he’ll either abdicate after a few years or asked to be passed over (thou this has never happened before but it could happen if the UK gov wanted it by issuing an act of parliament).
I think Prince William is very sneaky.
All this hiding will eventually serve another purpose for him. IMO
One of the Church Clergy men said on the day of the engagement, “I give it 7yrs. ” I think he was made to apologize later. 🙂
I always wished they had let him continue talking.
Yeah, I don’t think these two would ever divorce. First, they seem to be comfortable in each other’s company. Plus William is going to spend plenty of time away from home, recharging and whatnot, so it’s a win-win.
But more importantly even if William decides to stray, Kate will absolutely turn a blind eye. She had only once put her foot down and only because the picture of him groping some girl’s breast became public. I’m sure it wasn’t the only time for him. Kate loves him and loves her life as a duchess, so she will never divorce him.
Gigi
Agree. Divorce is unlikely. The benefits are too great for both. They appear to already know how to live seperate lives so that’s down.
IF they would ever divorce it would be an outside influence. Maybe the Middletons finances or shady dealings come out. Uncle Gary does something else that’s terrible. Who knows.
And it would have to come from her side. If William messed up she would only have to stick by him and crisis avoided. If her side messed up it could become a black eye on the BRF and they would disconnect themselves to survive.
Outside of those scenerios they will remain married.
I know right now everyone thinks and sees no divorce, but I still think Pr.William will end up shocking people. I think his loose -cannon ways are kept on the down low by the Palace pr.
I give it ten years.
Francis
Loose cannon by his “hunting trips”. Meaning those guys only trips where they do hunt, but then have some entertainment of a gentlemen’s club fashion?
I think William would want to choose to cut ties. Kate wouldn’t give up if things maintain. She’s adapted to it.
Unless you mean William screws up huge and the Royals have to deflect his scandal to have Kate as the root cause to save William and then cut ties.
As horrible as that is I think they’re fully capable of it.
They will divorce when/if William truly falls in love. As many have said, he may feel affection (or even love) for Kate Middleton and her family, but he isn’t IN love with her. I miss James Whittaker.
I think that you have a good point concerning their “in love” status, NaS. However, that may change and love will deepen as time goes by, with their small and growing family; perhaps Will, will develop greater respect for her. Still, William seems most comfortable when he is with his brother.
13 years in, how much deeper do you think these two shallow people can get? This is a manchild who has stayed as far away from KM and PGTips as he could for the last year. It would be difficult for him to respect her less than he already does, that’s for sure. I think the affection is there, he feels obligated to her because she hung in there for so long. He feels safe and pampered with the Middleton family, not realizing that they leak to the press like sieves.
But if he does fall in love one day, it won’t stop him from dumping them all. He wants what he wants, and he pitches as many fits as it takes to get what he wants. Ex. If the Middleton’s tried to force him to stay in line for the throne “For the sake of George,” he’d see their pressure on him as an enormous betrayal. As long as they parted on friendly terms and the Middleton’s played their cards right, the Midds wouldn’t be ostracized. If they put up a fight, or tried to make him feel obligated to stay in the royal family, all bets are off.
Notsugarhere, I believe the same, if William falls in love with someone else, he will divorce Kate. I don’t think she could do much to stop it.
I don’t see this marriage lasting , I never have.
Does anyone notice that Kate is barely ever photographed with Pippa anymore. Me thinks they had a major falling out when Pippa was disallowed by the palace when it was time to promote her book.
Huge Fiasco. I think Pippa blames kate.
That’s an interesting theory. I’ve assumed that Kate with Pippa photos are rare for the same reasons candid photos of Kate are rare i.e. RPO’s are taking extra steps to hide Kate when she goes out in public for non-official duties. FX, She managed to give paps the slip when she went to that Dorchester Hotel wedding a couple months ago.
Or maybe there are fewer chances to pap the pair because they get together less often b/c Kate’s so busy, not b/c they’re estranged? Kate has been busy decorating 2 new homes and spending 1 hour per day with George.
Or, maybe The Firm has completely absorbed her which means she is no longer recognizable as a separate being. They do eventually absorb all high ranking newcomers and it’s inevitable that Kate metaphorically speaking will eventually disappear all together. That family is like a giant amoeba that encircles the newbie, then they suck the life out of them followed by complete digestion.
Perfectly phrased! Boggles the mind that anyone would take on this deranged lifestyle.
One hour with George? Giant amoeba? XD!
Lol, perfectly phrased except the George part. I think she is probably a great mom.
Dame
I’m willing to bet Kate is a great mom. Not the mom who changes every diaper or is at every feeding, leaves him with nannies all day for shopping, redecorating, etc, but loves her child.
It was using George as a reason to clear her schedule that wasn’t ok.
I agree with all you say – although- like Dame Snarkweek I do think Kate is probably a good mother. Not that any of us will ever really know, but she herself grew up in a loving supportive environment and it seems she would want that for her children.
I do think that upper class parenting, including royal parenting, is *very* different from what most of us think of good parenting.
Don’t worry about Kate and Pippa. Kate is at her mums home a lot and she sees Pippa regularly. There’s no fallout.
She’s not in photos with her mum either a lot, but she visits her all the time.
I don’t know that anyone is particularly worried, but it is a fact that there are far fewer photos of Kate with her family of origin than there used to be. That doesn’t mean all that much, since the photos that sell are probably the ones of Kate on official duties or shots of her with other royals.
Suze!
*waves joyfully*
Hi Dame! Waves back, frantically ; ).
Kate is not a full-time royal and she is the wife of heir to heir. That’s why she is not getting gorgeous royal jewels IMO.
The cover is perfect. Both Kate and HM have their best bitch faces on LOL.
I’m trying to remember if Sophie Wessex wore state jewelry while she was still working in her PR firm… or if that only came after she became a working royal. Because she’s not an heir at all, but still wears gorgeous pieces.
But can Kate and Sophie be compared? I would put Sophie in the same category with Diana. They are both HM’s sons’ wives. Kate is HM’s son’s son’s wife.
Hm. I don’t know. I’d consider those with a direct line to the throne to be above the peripheral royals… LAK – want to jump in here? Diana was to be Queen. Sophie will be Countess of Wessex and no higher, I’d imagine.
I looked it up 😉 Camilla is above Kate, Kate is above Sophie. Kate is considered the third most important royal woman of the BRF due to the line of succession.
When Prince Phillip passes, Edward and Sophie will be made Duke and Duchess of Edinborough.
I know Kate is higher than Sophie according to order of precedence but AFAIK heir takes the most of inheretence (hence Diana got the most jewels) and other share what is left. And since there can only be one heir and Charles is not responsible of royal jewels (again AFAIK) I don’t think Kate is getting all that much jewels. I may be wrong but it kind of makes sense to me since Kate is not wearing jewels. She cannot be that much of a plain-jane right?
HM adores Sophie. And Sophie either genuinely or cunningly has ingratiate herself with HM with a combination of affection and hard work. Consequently, the vaults have opened to her in a way they haven’t been opened to anyone else for a while.
One might argue that she attends many white tie events, but so does Anne and other royals, and Sophie has more variety in jewels loaned to her than all of them.
Per the divorce settlement Kate received the majority of Diana’s jewels upon marrying William. Kate got Diana’s famous engagement sapphire only after Harry gifted it to William to propose to Kate with. The ring actually belonged to Harry and he could have actually kept it for his own bride soneday had he wanted to. Harry and William are very close. I would have had a jeweler turn the ring into two individual ones so both future wives could have one.
LAK called it correctly. Sophie is beloved ,adored by the Queen and works hard hence access to the vault.
Dame snark week I don’t think that’s correct concerning Diana’s jewels and Kate inheriting them….
Also what jewels were classified solely as Diana’s, we know the ring…I know the ring and a watch the brothers wanted, but does anyone know exactly what other jewels were considered belonging solely to Diana? I know she got a suite of sapphires for a wedding present, and Kate wore the earrings, but do wedding presents of jewels from other Royalty belong to the bride or the Crown?
Just curious. Does anyone know?
Sophie is also adored by Pr.Phillip and something tells me that’s not a easy thing for a royal wife to do, get on Phillips good side and stay there! 🙂
“Kate got Diana’s famous engagement sapphire only after Harry gifted it to William to propose to Kate with. The ring actually belonged to Harry and he could have actually kept it for his own bride soneday had he wanted to. ” That’s one version of the story, but not necessarily the facts of the matter.
She had at least one diamond necklace that was gifted to her from a Saudi prince as well as a lovely gold and diamond bracelet from Verdura called the Diana (not named after her though). There are also a number of rings and bracelets.
Notasugar
Other versions of this would be appreciated if you can recall them. I repeat my version via Nicholl. She waivers in tone but is undoubtedly an insider – introduced into young rf circles by Harry himself, so I have no problem with her version.
Francis
The divorce is public record. As well as I can recount there was some question as to what jewelry Diana would be allowed to keep – wedding gifts, state gifts etc etc. eventually the queen provided the divorce attorneys with a carefully itemized list of what Diana could walk away with under strict stipulation that she could never sell the pieces for private gain and upon her death the jewelry would be held for William’s wife. These terms excluded personal jewelry which Diana’s own personal will provided plans for. I have no idea, however, which pieces the queen itemized. It was also my understanding that the jewelry reverts back to the estate should Will and Kate ever divorce. The engagement ring is considered a personal gift and she would not be obligated to return that to Will. Should Will ever remarry his new wife would then take posession of Diana’s jewelry.
Hmm…
Didn’t Harry and William swap for the ring. Harry gave William the ring and Harry got a cartier watch?
Wasn’t there an interview where Harry said he didn’t think his brother would ever get married? And another where Harry said he really didn’t know Kate, but sine she would be his sister in law he was looking forward to it?
I think the swap happened. Their brothers. I doubt should a divorce occur Kate would walk away with those iconic jewels. A settlement or clause would take care of that.
There’s also the version that no one knew about the engagement ahead of time. Harry caught swearing in public when surprised with the news – including the news that she had the ring of doom.
Notasugarhere
Where’d you hear that rumor?
At least three different forums and multiple sites, FLORC, going back to the time of the engagement. Common knowledge and openly discussed. Considering that JLoP was on the job at that point, the Palace insider quoted that Harry gave the ring to William – that screams spin. I personally wouldn’t believe a Katie Nichols version, particularly if it was a William vs. Harry situation as this one is. She’s in the Middleton camp (Bill and Kate).
But…ArtHistorian
What I wanted to know was did those gifts of jewels from other royalty (The Sheik) received as wedding gifts to the Princess of Wales belong solely to Diana as they were gifts to the Princess of Wales or did the jewels suites from Sheiks (which came as royal wedding presents) belong to the Crown?
Many of the new pieces Kate wears are bought for her, so those she can keep like Sarah could keep her Tiara, which was purchased for her for the wedding.
Diana as Princess of Wales received gifts from Royals and dignitaries as a new bride The Princess of Wales ,do those belong to the Crown or solely to a Diana?
I don’t see where a Kate would inherit Diana’s jewels. Most of Diana’s jewels were the Crowns.
Francis
That was expressly why the queen had to formally and legally clarify which jewels Diana would be allowed to keep. She was not stripped of all state gifted jewelry. The queen saw no need and had no wish to take it that far but she was adamant that the jewelry could never be sold and could never be bequeathed to just anyone of Diana’s choosing. It was stipulated in writing and signed by Diana that those pieces would go to William’s wife. She was free to do what shee wished with her own private jewels, including her engagement ring, which was left to Harry.
Francis,
I honestly don’t know.
Some royal families have set up foundations for jewels, avoiding inheritance tax. I do not know if the BRF has such a thing. In Denmark, wasn’t the ruby parure left directly to Frederik, not to the royal family?
From what I’ve read, Queen Ingrid specifically left the ruby parure to CP Frederik – I don’t know if it was for tax reasons, but they were very close, and there’s a long tradition in the DRF that this particular parure is worn by the crown princesses and queen consorts. The parure came to Denmark with the Swedish Princess Lovisa, she gave it to her daughter-in-law Alexandrine, who gave it to her daughter-in-law Ingrid. Queen Ingrid didn’t have sons, so I guess that it was always intended for Frederiks’ wife.
– there’s actually a similar tradition in my own family (though the jewel in question isn’t quite as grand). There’s a diamond ring in my father’s family that has been passed down from mother to eldest daughter for generations. However, my paternal grandmother only had sons, so my mother wears the ring. Then it comes to me.
In Denmark, certain jewels, like the emerald parure belong the the Crown Jewels and cannot leave the country (and can only be worn by the Queen or a queen consort). Other items, like the Perle Poire Tiara is, as far as I know, part of a foundation. The DRF doesn’t have as many tiaras as other RF’s and Queen Ingrid were genereous with the tiaras, which were shared out among her daughters. The gorgeous Khedive tiara went to Ex-Queen Anne-Marie of Greece (though it is worn by all female descendants of Queen Ingrid at their weddings, along with the Irish lace veil – CP Mary is the only outsider who has worn this veil)
Pic of Queen Ingrid wearing the Khedive Tiara:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/175499716700494705/
The Alexandrine Drop Tiara left the DRF with the divorce between Prince Joachim and his first wife, Alexandra (now Countess of Frederiksborg). The tiara was a gift from the Queen to Alexandra and was deemed the princess’ personal property in the divorce settlement.
Pics of Alexandra and Margrethe wearing the Drop Diamond Tiara:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/394487248581796238/
This is why Prince Joachim’s second wife, Princess Marie’s lovely floral tiara is a loaner. Here’s a pic: http://www.pinterest.com/pin/463730092853120701/
@Art Historian – the Danes have the best jewelry, imo – if not the most extensive collection. Those rubies are to die for and the Alexandrine Drop is exquisite. I bet Daisy is gnashing her teeth over giving it to Alexandra – although it should come back to the main line through Alex’s sons.
I’m hoping that the exquisite Diamond Drop makes it back into the DRF collection someday. Maybe Joachims’s eldest son will realize (in about 50 years) that his wife doesn’t need something so grand, and will accept a quiet cash payout from the monarch to return the item.
The Diamond Drop isn’t among my favorite tiaras, but it is sad that it left the DRF in the divorce. Hopefully it won’t be sold off – and if it goes to one of her sons, then it is still in the family. As a little side note: Alexandra is apparently on very good terms with Joachim’s new wife Princess Marie.
I LOVE the diamond-ruby parure! The tiara is simply exquisite and it has a history that few other royal pieces can rival, perhaps on the Swedish Cameo Tiara, that belonged to Empress Josephine.
The Perle Poire tiara is also gorgeous – and very similar to The Cambridge Lover’s Knot, that we discussed not long ago – and with it goes a parure of giant pear-shaped pears that just makes me salivate: http://www.pinterest.com/pin/472807660853252732/
http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.dk/2013/06/tiara-thursday-pearl-poire-tiara.html
If any of you ladies ever stop by Copenhagen, then stop by Rosenborg Castle in the centre of town: http://parkmuseerne.dk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Rosenborg-Eksteri%C3%B8r-WEB.jpg
It houses the Danish Crown Jewels and both the Emerald Parure and the Perle Poire Parure (if I remember correctly, it has been a while). It also houses Christian IV’s crown, a gorgeous example of Renaissance goldsmithing! http://dkks.dk/assets/Genstande/Ros/_resampled/pageimageoverlay-C4-krone-header.jpg
Exactly.
Christine NotsoSugar,
+1m Agree.
B*E York are hardworking, and they work with grannie HM a lot.
Vava, agree +1k
Snake both ma and Waity doolittle. Ma carole poison in the way of scheming to s/climbing will be the death of P Willy and Windsors. THere is also marriage contract for PGTips and siblings belong to the BRF. Waity can’t have them when divorce.
I doubt HM regret taking the throne, she was ready and seem brilliant even as a child. She also had very strong G grannie Q Mary and QE who trained and molded HM to lifetime service, duty to the monarchy
Charmelon,
I see HM the Duke hands off the kids personal life _ as its their marriage /life. When it affects the monarchy the Firm BRF in a public then she buts in.
Millions wasted tax payers pounds, cooked up emergency job (not) to avoid royal duties and ease ma carole grand plan to social climbing (and Title husband for Pips lazy doolittle 2 in the countryside);
POW stay out for PGTips and Willnot middleton, but now the people fuming of the waste, HM the Duke stepping in or pretending.
Jewelry or not, because I think Kate doesn’t wear them ‘right’ anyways, her having them would be such a loss in showcasing them properly. It seems to me that she’s not much of a jewelry girl in the first place. Earrings & her ring. That’s all I notice in terms of what jewelry she wears.
Remember when she wore QE2’s necklace? Hair down covering it & if I remember correctly, the dress she wore didn’t emphasize the color of the gems.
To be fair. Kate would have to work more to learn how to display such jewels. When you only practice things once in a great while you have to relearn each time.
FLORC – I think that Kate just needs to study the bearing of the women who wear these magnificent pieces, and just copy that. Not so hard – chin up and imperial, and entitled, face on. “I am the queen of the realm”, type of look. Heck, if we could play dress-up with all those jewels, I think that we too, could become proficient with that bearing.
This would be such fun gossip if it were true, but I just don’t believe it. Kate would never challenge the queen. Ever.
Sorry but this story sound like total BS – the Queen gave Anmer Hall to William and Kate and the house is part of the Queen’s Sandringham Estate – so if the Queen didn’t want them there they wouldn’t be there.
I wonder if the current situation is more to do with Charles than William (although it is obviously PC to hate Kate at the moment) – it is well known that Charles is a pretty petulant Heir to the throne and hated Diana getting more attention so he cannot have been pleased for his son to be “stealing” the attention. It was telling that he didn’t bother to see his first grandchild on his birthday
I too don’t think the Queen is all that much upset. But I think she helped fund the KP renovations in the hopes that W&K would use them to do more charity work in London. But I don’t think she out looking to go after W&K.
Do I remember this properly, but didn’t W&K announce their engagement to the media before getting official OK from the Queen? I wonder if they discussed their move to Amner Hall & the pilot job with the Queen before they actually started all the changes?
HM reportedly found out an hour before the press conference, and only after the press conference had already been scheduled.
Reportedly, William told his grandmother early in the morning of the day they went public.
Kind of disrespectful, to share at the last minute, but perhaps the the queen was prepared. Will we ever know for sure? (not!)
Gordon Bennett, consider the source. Not exactly The New Statesman, is it?
Re HMQ’s coiffure: I do love the way it incorporates classical architecture. 😉
Brilliant observation about her hair – Ionic order-ha! I couldn’t remember the specifics about orders so I looked it up.
Total BS!
Love that photo of Kate. She has a mean look to her there. The eyes…….she got them from that snake, her mother.
I don’t believe she and the Queen fight, much less really interact with each other except at the family gatherings. I don’t believe Kate wants to live a normal life, either. She (IMO) is obsessed with William and I think some of that obsession is because he is the heir to the heir. Would she feel that way about him if he wasn’t? Only she would know that.
She enjoys the wealth, the status, and the fact that she will forever be imbedded in the history of the BRF, as mother of a future king. Kate seems to enjoy the pampered life of a rich royal spouse, that’s it. I am enjoying her current departure from the media glare, however it won’t last for long.
Snake? Folks are on a roll today! Where’s Abbott’s comments? I still got enough laughs today from this board to get me through weekend!
Name calling? Art Historian will not be pleased.
Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion, unless attacking other posters. My statement about snake eyes is no worse than calling Kate lazy, a slacker, shop-a-holic, camera loving, etc. (which I believe she is).
A snake? – wow, that’s harsh and mean. And I do think that calling someone a snake (with all the associations that such a person is evil and poisonous) is very different from calling someone a slacker and a shop-a-holic. The first goes to character, the other goes to behaviour. Frankly, none of us knows Ma Middleton’s personality, but some of Kate’s work-shy behaviour can be observed when it comes to her public role. See the difference?
Historical factoid:
Catherine de Medici was known as Madame Serpent (Madam Snake) because of her supposed use of poison for assassinations).
I generally like dishing on CB and I will be rather sad to see the tone of debate here go the way of other RF forums that shall remain nameless. I makes it much less fun to be here, and there are a lot of posters that I very much enjoy debating with.
Vava
Calling someone a snake and saying someone is unsavory is a bit different. At any rate I agree that everyone can express herself the way she chooses, but I do enjoy the moderate, deliciously snarky tone you usually use. If I stuck my nose where it didn’t belong I sincerely apologize.
I’ve often heard people refer to someone else as a “snake” and I don’t see that as beyond the pale as others seem to.
Well I don’t really want to diminish anyone’s enjoyment of this site and if my reference to Ma Middleton’s reptilian appearance offends people, then I sincerely apologize. I really do. Just want to say that although I think her eyes, and Kate’s jaw have the resemblance of said creature’s physical features, I never once implied that either of them are venomous, evil, unsavory, or poisonous. I think you’re reading too much into it. But what the heck, I’m not above apologizing if my comments are offensive. Sorry.
The thing is that it can be very difficult to discern such nuances in print and it is simply not just a queastion of reading too much into it. “Snake” is a heavily loaded word that instantly conjures up a load of negative associations. I had absolutely no idea from that post that you think that the Middleton women’s facial features resemble a snake’s anatomy so of course your very unique, idiosyncratic use of the word “snake” can very easily be misinterpreted.
I wasn’t seriously offened but I was concerned because I really wouldn’t like the delightly snarkiness of CB to devolve into something more vicious. I may also have been influenced by the memory of a gossip site where Ma Middleton and her children regularly are referred to as the Viper and her Spawn.
Thanks for your reply, and I’ll be more careful next time. I’ve never heard of a site where they were referred as the viper and her spawn, so I don’t have that feeling that you do.
Let me just say that the photo of Kate is …. disturbing.
@AH, I hear “snake” used in a similar tone as “you dog” so I don’t personally find it off-putting. If someone deliberately called a Muslim friend of my “you dog” then yes, I would see the offense in it. In everyday conversation, no I don’t see those animal-related terms as being a “loaded” term. Many here refer to William as “the horse” or horse-faced. Do you see that as being offensive too? Genuinely curious.
I’m with Art Historian on this one. I used to post her quite frequently because it was a sane place with some good discussion. I don’t so much any more and the general tone is a big reason why.
This isn’t directed at anybody, but you’re talking about it here so I thought I would interject. I’m a big fan of talking about what they do rather than what they look like, or using belittling names. There’s plenty to talk about without them, and they’re also human beings with all that entails, good and bad.
The Middleton women do have hardened snake eyes.
I love that artist painting , he got to the truth of Kate.
@vava,
I can’t for the life of remember the name of that site. They have a whole thread dedicated to what I prefer to call “The Great Foam-Belly Conspiracy”. It makes for both amusing and disturbing reading.
@notasugar..
Yes “snake” is a more loaded word than “horse” for reasons I gave above. This relates to cultural associations and meanings given to the word. Granted, words are used differently within different groups – context is important, and that also means that not everyone shares the same meanings and opinions about the usage of certain words. In my part of the world, horsey goes to appearance and snake-like goes to character, and that’s why I reacted strongly.
It isn’t nice to denigrate someone based on their looks but I actually think it is worse to insinuated something very negative about a person’s character when one doesn’t know that person at all. I get that the people using the term “snake” in this discussion didn’t mean that Carole M was evil, poisonous, etc., but that wasn’t actually clear in the post – and because of what these words mean in my part of the world, I read them the way I did. I have learned, by hard experience, that what we say very easily can get misinterpreted – sometimes with unforseen consequences. In this case, it wasn’t a big deal. But I have, sadly, been in at least one situation where something I said had very very bad consequences – so I just wish that people in general would be a bit more careful about what they say – and I think that goes especially on the internet, because I have seen many online-communities become tainted by flamewars. I know this is a particular hobby-horse of mine, so I’ll stop now,
As I’ve said before, I’m perfectly fine with discussing and criticizing the royals when it comes to the public image they present – their work ethic (or lack thereof), excessive spending, how they behave on offical appearances, how they perform their public duties, etc. However, I personally feel very very uncomfortable speculating about their private lives and their personalities, because, let’s face, we don’t know these people and we don’t know what goes one behind closed doors!
Notasugar
People referring to William as looking horsey does not offend me at all. Actually, Vava’s comment wasn’t personally offensive – just jarring and unnecessary imho.
The difference lies in the widely held impressions of the individual being spoken about. For example, it is difficult not to read negativity into Carole being called a snake when so many commenters here repeatedly express the belief that she behaves like one. The consensus gives credence to the insult. Calling William horsey stands rather blandly on its own because no one has ever stated here that he behaves/acts like a horse. So all one will assume is that he must look like/resemble a horse. Pretty inoffensive, most would say. Context is king.
Dame,
Let’s not forget how snake-like and reptilian are words that often have been used in literature to describe and characterize villainous characters. That is also an aspect that adds to the associations when a person is being called a snake. That is one of the ways that heavily loaded words and terms work – through chains of associations drawn from both a cultural heritage as well a common usage. Context matters, and all people don’t share the same contexts, so a heavily loaded term can very easily be misinterpreted, especially in print where inflection often gets lost.
“Context matters, and all people don’t share the same contexts, so a heavily loaded term can very easily be misinterpreted, especially in print where inflection often gets lost. ” Thank you, AH. Context and culture. Some people find offense in the term snake, others don’t, biblical or behavior associations or not. For some people, “dog” or “horse” are as offensive or MORE offensive than the term “snake.” We are all free to take offense or not to be offended.
Bluhare, I think there are some posters on here who are over-the-top on both ends of the spectrum, and they are mostly ignored. I don’t feel overall that this place is headed that OTT direction.
This is not directed at you: I’m starting to feel like we’re being policed as Jo polices over on HRHDuchessKate.
I hope CB doesn’t become a place where every word is questioned as offensive, where the link-or-lie demands continue to increase, or where it becomes sugar troll vs. vinegar troll with no logical discussion. We don’t need another RoyalGossip nor do we need another HRHDuchessKate or TRF site.
Arty
‘Chains of association’
Brilliant! My mother is very religious and I instinctively view snakes as terribly menacing, threatening and sly – now there’s an association lol. But your points remind me that symbolic manipulation is stock in trade for the media as well. We’re doomed lol.
I’ve requested that the moderator remove my initial comment and subsequent replies because I feel badly that I offended people. That really wasn’t my intent.
Vava,
You certainly sparked a very interesting conversation! Don’t feel to bad. I wasn’t seriously offended, just concerned – and I love debating stuff like this because I’m just a geeky academic 😉
Dame,
I have dipped my toes into comparative religion once in a while – that’s part and parcel when it comes to the study of symbols in art (iconography) – and because I love the weird and twisty roads this leads me onto. The snake is actually one of the oldest symbols in Western culture, and it wasn’t always associated with evil (that is mainly due to monotheism). It has functioned as a symbol of wisdom, fertility (Minoan snake godesses) and healing (the the Rod of Asclepius that is used by many health organizations today).
I find it fascinating how symbols and their meanings can both survive and change during millenia. There are actually a lot of Christian symbols that have their origin in pagan cults. A lot of the symbology of the Virgin Mary derives from the Isis cult, and some of the attributes of Christ are very similar to those of Osiris and Mithras.
notasugar: I don’t know what Duchess Kate has to do with what I said. My opinion about that site has been expressed there, just as my opinion about this one was expressed here.
Vava, you didn’t offend me. My comment really was a general one, and not directed at you at all. Honest!
Bluhare I was concerned that you said you were posting less, because it seems you felt this place was becoming vitriolic (a la Royal Gossip). While HRHDuchessKate and RoyalGossip have their place, I think most of us like CB being more of a logical, middle-of-the-road place. The extreme sugar and extreme vinegar have been increasing here, which concerns me, but most people ignore those posters (which is good IMO).
NaS, your comment about the “Jo policies” at HRHDuchessKate blog, explains a lot. I’ve wondered why some of my comments were not published. They were not offensive, I believe, but definitely without the spin of other posters on that site.
You should email Charlotte wolfpup. She asked me if I knew you as she was looking for your email.
notasugar, thank you for your response. No, I don’t think vitriolic is quite the right word, but people lose me when they either turn their disagreement personal by saying something about the poster, or demean the topic by calling them names (which you did not do, vava!). The poster might have a good point but it’s lost when they appear to be nothing more than a raving hater. That’s increased lately. But I so agree with you about “links please”. It is a gossip site, not a master’s thesis. Duchess Kate is a fan site, for sure, but there are more than a couple of pretty good posters on there now. You just have to wade through some blather to find them. I’ve found it preferable to here lately, which is saying a lot.
bluhare, I will contact Charlotte. Thank you for passing that on; oh, I wonder if I have to go with a bowed head.
I really like the level of critical thinking on Kaiser’s blog. There’s freedom here, and one is able to speak their mind freely. We don’t always agree on each point, but wow, do we learn from each other! I find regular posters to have very good manners, and that tends to spread the goodwill. I don’t like fitting into other people’s perimeters, that is Jo’s, and of course, who would bother with any hate site?
You’ve taught me a lot bluhare about posting, and speaking my mind. I hope that you’ll always be near, and commenting in the future.
I remember all of the stories about Diana fleeing the English and Scottish countryside for London every chance she got.
I think there’s a difference here. Diana visited the country while still working for her charities & helping to bring a lot of media attention to their causes. Kate is going to live in the country full time and then that’s it. I don’t think she’s going to do anymore charity work than she did when she lived in London. I think she’s going to do less work actually.
Yeah, no. Kate WANTS to be hidden away somewhere, not courting the press in London. Media was Diana’s only source of genuine attention and admiration. Until it became a nightmare.
Hard to say whether the Queen is against this move and any benefits it might have for their family life. She lost any time for a simpler family life herself because her father died when she was still a young woman and suddenly she was the Queen. I think she has expressed some regret over what that did to her family life, so she may be giving this young family the space they need to just live. There are plenty of people and theoretically, plenty of opportunities to handle official duties, so perhaps….?
Hard to say, since the Queen says nothing publicly about any of this.
Being QUEEN is very different from W&K being asked to step up their royal engagements. In addition to hundreds of engagements per year, HM actually has work to do with the government, being the informed mediator who tries to keep political fights from destroying the lives of the taxpayers.
There are NOT plenty of other royals out there to handle things. Some of the working royals have serious health issues. Andrew, Edward, and Sophie are the only other working royals who are younger than retirement age.
Why is it that in 2014 some people think that being a working parent means you’re a bad parent? Asking these two layabouts to do 1-2 days a week of charity work isn’t going to destroy a relationship with a child.
I agree ChRistine.
Willy is part of the problem too. Willy get ‘royal’ pass 😉
Millions wasted tax payers pounds. And cooked up emergency job (not), make me feel P Willnot have something on dad POW: PC seem to have a hands off to spoil Willy, and that carole muddletons already added and corrupt. More Willy indulgence workless Royal. the duties to the people.
PC if hands off, thinking he is POW waiting, and Willy may be waiting decades: but PC could pass before HM or soon after.
PC hands off Willnot so unlike King (Prince) Harry, who embrace without question the royal dedication and hardwork from Di POW, HM. And the Duke PC. Other hardworking royals.
Recent shopping excursion write up must have bring things to head with HM -finally!! . No TIARAs for workless shop empress Waity doolittle! HM give them long rope then she and the Duke reel in when become seriously flawed and people start complaining.
+1000
All our questions will be answered in a serious documentary currently in preparation.
(See Jezebel for more details)….but it has Elizabeth Hurley as the Queen (good exercise for her assumed poshness, at least) and Joan Collins (hooray!!) as some duchess with an axe to grind. Oh and the wrong heir becomes king or something. Yep, sounds like a winner.
That’s not a documentary,that’s a US remake of a British tv show called THE PALACE
It was quite good , the a British version, they had a William type character, a Harry type character , but the best character in the series was the Princess Anne type character but she was so cut throat…always undermining the William character. Hahaha
The Palace , the British version use to be on YouTube.
I know that!
I was joking: of course it’s not a ruddy documentary….more a pile of corgi poo I’m sure.
I think the Palace is also on Netflix in US. It is a great show.
Hahaha a pile of corgi poo…..:)
Who really knows what QEII feels about this, how much she knows, what she is told, or is lead to believe. I doubt very much that KM and QEII are at war. My guess is that QEII really doesn’t care at all about KM on a personal level. KM is expendable in QEIIs eyes. If KM was out of the picture tomorrow, PW would still be the heir and PG afterward. That is what she probably cares about. For as long as KM is in the picture QEII will go along with it. I also doubt very much that QEII is that involved in PW and KMs daily lives– where they live on any given day or what they do/don’t do as far as engagements. Would she like/prefer things to be different–probably, I would guess. As we know from past history, things would have to get much worse for anyone to step in. Imagine how different things would for QEII, the royal family, and the Commonwealth if both PW and KM were fully engaged and passionate about royal duty and charitable work or setting the bar high to make a difference. That is such a departure from reality that it’s hard to imagine.
As for the jewelry, I agree that KM isn’t given access. I doubt very much though that she would be able to pull it off if she was given access–sadly her lack of style, self-confidence, and poise makes everything she wears seem fake.
+1000000
Why are William and Kate considered slackers? Can anyone post details please??
Because they are members of the Royal Family and to some people, by default, that makes them
slackers, freeloaders, ugly blah, blah, blah. and incapable of doing anything right.
I’ve been having a good laugh at some of the comments on here – there is so much imagination the posters should go into writing fiction.
Research the Court Circular and royal family engagement totals. Look up a man named Tim O’Donovan who does the unofficial count every year.
Because the Queen, Prince Phillip, Charles, Camilla, Harry, and most of the working royals in Europe do more work than they do.
Prince Edward and Sophie also work very hard.
Harry also who doesn’t get recorded on the Official royal engagement lists when he does events many times, run circles around William and Kate.
William and Kate are the laziest royals but the press’s continues to give them a pass. I think in the end all the press soft handling of the couple will backfire on them. I really think Williams real goal is to not have to do anything for the royal house and just hide away or do his own thing for years.
I don’t believe he truly wants the role.
This story is from Life & Style, which means that it is utter BS. They write fiction about actual people. QEII almost never reveals her thoughts to the public, and Kate doesn’t speak to the press. Their source is fictional.
However, I find this story interesting on another level – that is, in relation to W&K’s public image. L&S seems to have caught on to the inconsistencies in what they say and what they do, as well as the increasing public debate on this couple’s work ethic. They have simply cast the different positions of this debate (“normalcy” vs royal work/duty) as a drama between two characters that also happen to be two actual people. In short, this story can be seen as a dramatization of some of the debates that goes on in the press and on the internet, on sites such as CB.
Even if the RF tells itself, that the future will wait for the Dolittle’s, time has a tendency to change everything we see, and can imagine. I don’t see Will ever caring for the common man anymore than he does now. What will open the largesse of his chest? Where will he learn empathy? I wonder about the perimeters and values of the kingdom we see it today, as compared to the one that he will inherit in the future. It doesn’t make sense to take it for granted. (those republicans!)
The queen could not be happy.
I doubt that she actually has a problem with the move. I also doubt that Kate really wants a so-called normal life any which way. She might not want to do the work but she loves the privileges. As does William probably more than Kate.
Kind of late to the board here, but I was recalling a strange thing in somewhat of the same direction as this story but not really. I was wondering if anyone remembered the big engagement announcement of William and Kate? She was done over very well make up wise. I simply thought she was a knock out because the make up was done so well. She impressed me in good appearance, and it appeared as if she were gracious for the new title, and I was buying the whole ensemble of her “playing the role”. However, when they were being interviewed and the press asked Kate something akin to what contributions she planned to make to the BRF and the society, and I remember her distinctively saying: “Well, I’ll assist in any SMALL way that I can.” When I heard this, I remember being taken a back, thinking did she mean to say that? And then I began to make excuses for her. I thought that maybe she meant this out of respect for William in the way that she wouldn’t try to usurp authority over him, or maybe she meant that she would only do assignments and support and advocate for causes approved by the Queen and didn’t want to send the wrong message by rambling off contributions she intended to make. Yet, something still didn’t feel right about her. I’m not saying that I believe this particular headline, but I am saying that Kate meant EXACTLY what she said. She would help in any small way that she could and by that she meant that she would only do the bare minimum. I’m not excusing William, but what I am saying is that I believe that her and William had conspired to do only the bare minimum from the get go.
Interesting insight. I firmly believe in “what you see is what you get” when it comes to Kate. All the PR spin of “she’s ramping up to do more duties” is just spin. This is who she is and will be.
I agree, to a point.
I think Prince William chose someone who he knew would do less than the bare minimum with him concerning royal position and duty to the Monarchy and never ever challenge him on many levels. He purposely conspired within himself to choose a nonstarter, a girl -woman who had no real core work-ethic or ambition except to wait and follow his path. IMO Williams motive in many of his actions is the slow destruction of his future Monarchy. I truly believe he does not want the top job, the role he was born into. It will take him two decades to probably admit it. IMO
I always felt that in some way He was also using the Middleton’s and he will lean on his closeness to them and want of a ordinary life, to one day vacate his Throne.
I’m not sure that Harry wants the job either. In their group of friends, there are jobs that come with far less scrutiny and pay about the same. Their friends have similar incomes, yet much more freedom to do what they want. In this day and age, they must feel sometimes that their friends got the better deal. Younger men only need so much money, but desire lots of freedom. I will acknowledge being followed by cameras in your 20’s would be pretty bad.
* All*
ITA, that Williams sought for a woman who lacked drive equally as much as he did. One who would not have any real expectations of bettering her society. One that wouldn’t really challenge him too much or “rock the boat” in their private life either. However, I also have to add this, any woman seeking to be a duchess has to lack some real ambition in work ethic because that criterion for candidacy of marriage is that she can’t hold any real working position, am I right? Yet, I believe William did court discussion with Kate in regards to her stifling any ambitions to really work. I’m pretty sure he made clear to her that his expectations were for them as a married couple, and members of the BRF , to only do the bare minimum. And that was fine by Kate because she has no drive anyway, is only in it for the perks, just like William. Hence the saying,” birds of a feather flock together.”
Francis
I can’t agree with your assessment of why William chose Kate.
William more likely chose Kate because he knew her. He knew she could deal with him in a manner he approved. He knew her family and in turn her family treated him like gold. And he knew that he loved her and she loved him. Maybe, as a few have stated he loves her like a friend and she adores him. I think there’s truth to both sides. William has affection for Kate and Kate loves William from a dependent standpoint. Even so, it’s love.
And lastly, Kate stuck around. When they split no one wanted to marry William. His wandering behavior was known and everyone had a title or loads of money. It wouldn’t help any of them to marry him.
Along with those the press turned on Will for dating Kate so long, not proposing, and then dumping her. Also, his age for taking a wife was getting there and reportedly Charles said something like “marry her or move on and take more royal duties”. So, he married her.
It was a big combination of factors. Not that he saw someone who would be even lazier than him. He saw someone that fit well and he knew she would do as he wanted. Hence the engagement interview of Kate saying she only cares about Williams opinion. I think that’s been proven numerous times since then.
@FLORC. “Also, his age for taking a wife was getting there and reportedly Charles said something like “marry her or move on and take more royal duties”. So, he married her.” It is terribly sad if this is true, because Philip pressured Charles to marry Diana because Philip felt he was risking her reputation, and look how that turned out? If this statement from Charles is true, William only married Kate Middleton to get out of doing his royal job.
@Leaflet. “However, I also have to add this, any woman seeking to be a duchess has to lack some real ambition in work ethic because that criterion for candidacy of marriage is that she can’t hold any real working position, am I right? ” No, categorically no.
Please go investigate Sophie Wessex, Daniel (Sweden), Mathilde (Belgium), Letizia (Spain), Maxima (Netherlands) as a few examples of royal partners who had great careers prior to meeting and marrying into royal families. Having a political job would have been a potential problem, but if she’d been gainfully employed for the decade she clung to William, it would have made her less of a laughing stock now.
@ notasugarhere, @ FLORC
” If this statement from Charles is true, William only married Kate Middleton to get out of doing his royal job.”
That’s what I got from reading FLORC’s statement as well. That he married Kate to avoid work. I believe he produced George in order to avoid work as well.
This question is going to sound pretty left field, but what if Williams is really homosexual? I mean, if he is that would make explain some of his resentment as well.
What if both heirs to the thrown are homosexuals and out-ed themselves in refusal to live in the dark? Would they then be both disqualified because of the production of heir purposes, and the next in line to the thrown take up the duty?
@notasugarhere,
Okay, gotcha, so the criterion for candidacy of marriage only forbids the candidate from previous political employment.
Leaflet: being gay is no bar to inheriting the throne. Extreme mental or physical disorder are probably the only bars and even so, parliament as well as the realms would have to agree. We’ve had gay monarchs before – see Edward 2.
If the monarch has no direct descendants, throne goes sideways to nearest blood relation in the line of succession who isn’t a catholic – sadly whilst the removal of the religion and gender bias law has been agreed, it’s not yet law.
@ LAK,
I briefly researched King Edward II’s reign and the effect that his homosexual life had on his reign. I have to say that his sexual orientation was not accepted at all after his truth was revealed according to both of the sources that I read. Edward II was shunned for his homosexuality, and his partner was murdered by those whom, supposedly, worked for King Edward II because they loathed Gaveston and his homosexual nature. King Edward I did not accept his son as the homosexual man that he was, and King Edward I died at odds with his own son over his son’s nature. Then King Ed. II lied to Isabelle to get her to marry him, and didn’t even want to sleep with her. When he finally did sleep with her and got her pregnant, he abandoned her in search for his exiled lover, which he was later forced to order the execution of Gaveston. England was invaded under King Ed. II’s reign and he was forced to relinquish his throne to his son.
How was there no bar to King Edward II’s right to the throne if his advisors and barons and father made his life a living hell for being gay? He was not accepted in the least bit. How is there no bar, if there is an unspoken bar readily in existence?
Leaflet
The version of Edward II’s life and reign you have described is the one popularly believed and has been passed down through the centuries. shakespeare and the Edward II depiction in Braveheart have helped to cement this version as well. But it is highly inaccurate for many reasons.
First and foremost it is important to realize that we unintentionally flavor the past with contemporary thought, values and interpretations. This often prevents us from effectively analyzing history in true context. Many excellent scholars have painstakingly examined the reign of Edward II and have mostly all agreed on the following points:
For most of Edward’s childhood, youth and early years on the throne his sexuality was never a topic of serious discussion. In the 14th century an individual who had same sex relationships were seen as heterosexuals who were inclined toward certain behaviors – there were no universally prevalent labels as we know them today. No one would have been upset that Edward was ‘gay’ He did, however, share an extremely close relationship with Gaveston that most scholars feel was likely a sexual one as well. Some historians are not convinced but in Edward’s day it was more a case of it being an open secret than a huge scandal.
Despite the nature of Edward’s relationship it is important to know that Edward I was not disposed to have any strong opinions about it one way or another until he saw how negatively Gaveston was affecting Edward II’s character. That is the thing the king could not tolerate – it had nothing with their perceived sexuality. The problem was that Edward I had raised Gaveston alongside his son in order to teach him civility, decorum, eloquence and deportment. Let’s just say Edward II was a bit rough around the edges. The plan backfired – as a lonely Edward II grew to admire and then worship the suave, handsome Gaveston a cycle of dependency began to develop. For his part, Gaveston was not the wicked, oily knave of depiction but he was extremely vain, egotistical, incompetent and materialistic.
Gaveston used his favor with Edward II to climb to the top of the aristocracy – enraging absolutely everyone on the way up. He lacked humility, openly mocked the noblemen sworn to serve and protect the king and managed to get a weak Edward to grant him land, titles and wealth he had not earned. It was only a matter of time before the kettle boiled over. The real problem was that Edward was an ineffectual monarch and often seemed unwilling to do much to improve. Unlike the modern view, however, he was not disliked personally and actually had a temperate, amicable personality. Until the Despensers came into the picture he was actually known for his generosity as well. But Gaveston’s foolish greed and impudence along with Edward’s refusal to deny him anything or even succeed in appealing his barons is what sealed Gaveston’s fate. Sexuality had almost nothing to do with it.
After Gaveston’s death the Despensers (father and son) filled his role as quickly as they could. Hugh Despenser the Younger proved to be far worse than Gaveston however. He was more calculating, grasping and manipulative and squared off detrimentally with the queen. At this point Edward II’s reign had gone flat, Bannockburn’s rout had humiliated and demoralized him and he lacked direction. Despenser availed himself of this and eventually no one could deal with, influence or speak with Edward unless they went through Despenser. Hugh Despenser was despised for his cruelty, greed and his hold over the king – again, sexuality being a present factor but not a consideration or variable in the growing displeasure with Edward.he simply seemed to lack awareness of the gravitas of his kingship and yielded power too easily to men crafty enough to ingratiate themselves with him for personal gain.
As for Isabella, you have to remember that royal marriages were contracted between princes and princesses even as they slept in their cribs. There were few love matches and if you got along with your chosen spouse you were lucky. Many couples met for the first time just before the actual wedding and it was not uncommon to need an interpreter to even communicate with them. As royals things were no different for Edward and Isabella. Their marriage was the result of a contract between their parents, King Edward I and King Phillip. Edward did not choose Isabella nor she him. They went through the formalities of the ceremony and basically went about their lives. Although both teenagers Isabella was barely 13 years old. Basically after the nuptial banquets Edward went back to his hawking, jousting and tavern hopping with his friends and Isabella resumed her prayers and her needlework. This was normal and not a sign of neglect.
Things appear to have been almost normal between Isabella, Edward and Gaveston. She had known him as long as she had known her husband and records indicate that Isabella was quite generous with Gaveston’s wife Joan. Scholars believe Isabella’s frustration stemmed from Gaveston’s deteriorating effect on her husband’s ability to rule. The period between Gaveston’s demise and the rise of the Despensers seems to have produced goodwill between Edward and Isabella – as well as a bandaid baby! They would have four children in all. But Hugh Despenser proved to be the real undoing of Edward for reasons stated above. It was during this period that Edward neglected everything and everyone, basically. He failed to see how this was impacting his family and friends and often seemed shocked/confused by their protestations.but failing to rule effectively and stay on the good side of his nobles left Edward vulnerable.he only took advice from Despenser and that added a lot of fuel to the growing fire. Isabella, tired of feeling frustrated, ignored and humiliated, made her plans.
The rest is history, lol.
Leaflet: that’s a very revisionist take on his homosexuality and how it affected his reign.
Edward 2 assigned favours, money and power to his lover above what was good for the kingdom and to the exclusion of the other nobles.
A monarch having favourites who were favoured over and above the other courtiers wasn’t new nor would it die out with him. The war of the roses has a lot of reasons that can be ascribed to it, but the spark that lit the tinder fuse was the king and Queen’s preference for their favourites.
Edward 2’s preference for his one favourite for whom he was willing to wreck the kingdom via favours, money, power even his own marriage was the cause of his troubles. He was overthrown by his wife, no less, who ruled as regent with her own favourite, mortimer, who was equally as unpopular as Edward 2’s lover.
His father didn’t lie to Isabelle nor would he have needed to do so. Marriage wasn’t the romantic adventure we have nowadays. No one cared what pecadillos any of the participants had, whether sexual, mental or physical. What mattered was the satisfaction of treaties and property through marriage and as long as heirs were propagated, everybody could pretty much do as they pleased.
If you look at every single royal marriage through the ages, across Europe, this was very much the norm. Henry 8’s marital adventures based upon romantic love were considered pretty abnormal, and that was before wife killing became his thing. Ditto Edward 4 and Victoria.
Even in society at large, the idea that a person could, would, should marry for love is a pretty recent development. It’s always been about property, status and begating of heirs.
@ Dame Snarkweek, @ LAK,
Okay, gotcha. So both of the pieces of material I read were over sensationalized and highly incorrect, lol. It was hilarious. Can you imagine me reading all of that sad material, which made King Ed. II and Glavestone a victim of love and war, and my heart plummeting, and my mouth not dropping fast enough to catch up with my plummeting heart? I was really feeling sad for both King Ed. II and Glaveston (although not so much Glaveston because he was somewhat rightfully portrayed as you listed him: highly incompetent, flamboyant, flippant, and without proper regard for proper behavior). Now that I think of it, both of the pieces of material I read was written a bit too much like a gay version of Romeo and Juliet. Although not exactly, only the romance part of it. Geez, I felt so sorry for both theses guys. Lmao.
Welp, I got a free history lesson, thanks guys, cheers!!! 🙂
I won’t add to the already excellent posts by Dame Snarkweed and LAK.
I just want to chime in with regard to the question of sexuality, because labels such as heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual didn’t exist until the 19th century because sexuality wasn’t seen as something that was an important part of a person’s identity (social class and family affiliation were much more important). The idea that sexual orientation is an important part of a person’s identity is a thoroughly modern one. In older time people and society distinguished between sexual acts that were socially acceptable and those that were sinful and illegal. Michel Foucault’s History of Sexuality is an excellent analysis on this subject.
@Art Historian,
Thanks a bunch for the credible recommendation. History is one of my favorite subjects. I enjoy reading and learning interesting credible facts about those who’ve come before me.
Late response!
Leaflet/Notasugarhere
I didn’t mean for that to be the main motivation. That William married Kate to get out of work.
I listed maybe 4 other reasons. All just as valid. He could have continued skirting by without a wife.
William is the one behind the move, not Kate. Everyone thinks William is “lazy.” What about angry? There’s a conspiracy theory about what happened to his mother. Does anyone think he may have bought into that? If so, it would follow that he would want his own family to get as far away from The Firm as possible. Just a thought.
Anmer Hall is not exactly “far away” though. It’s East Anglia, surely it wouldn’t be difficult to track them down. Even Scotland would be better, they could swim to Ireland in case of emergency lol
Snark Florc sugar Is on target,
Halina – you’re funny , I agree,
A King Harry will do as duty call, friend or no friend. He has respect clear duty to HM the monarch even if William is removed.
P William is grown to carry anger for his mom. If they agree with reports, then do something to bring to justice but avoiding duty enlisting ma carole and the muddletons to disrespect BRF, the monarchy HM, his duty of a BRF is disrespecting the powers establishment, GB UK and Commonwealth. (Like P Di drama!).
Waity and the muddletons will not allow him to abolish any monarch, by the time he is on the throne, Waity bare butt, shop spa hair flasher; lazy and workless to royal duties; will have weaken Willnot; and the powers to be will create another King Ed-like abdication.
Yea, Your theory doesn’t hold water because he’s well within the BRF still in Amner Hall. The only thing he’s keeping at arms length is his royal duties. The royal family, not so much.
He does bring up his mother when demanding privacy or more sympathetic treatment in the press.
And I do think he’s also angry. Not for the reasons you might think though. More because some people always feel entitled no matter how good they have it.
No theory…
Disrespect comes to RF HM….
from running away from royal duties, having a wife who ignores royal dress code, HM, is a multi flasher and bare b…. To booth: and disrespect representing the church (one of powers that be) – will lead to drama for a K Will.
Interesting! Thanks for weighing in, ladies. Pippa, you sure do think ahead; trying to wrap my mind around K Will/K Harry. I’m not a big Royal Watcher but learning a lot from all the posters, here. I’ve read more on Diana. Some scary theories out there.
True Santolina.
Completely believe this. Kate pretty much does what she wants (evidenced from a whole gamut of behaviors, from refusing to wear ‘proper’ attire/weighted skirts to insubstantial philanthropic duties) and never reconciled herself to the fact that she essentially sold her soul once she joined the royal family. The Queen controls everything so I find this completely believable. Kate has to remember SHE WANTED THIS LIFE, desperately – waited around years for it – and now she wants to change the rules. Sorry, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Queen has accepted Camilla and has grown close to her (if you believe some reports) then I doubt she has issues with Kate. Besides, even if she did not like her, what’s done is done. Kate is there to stay. She knows that The Queen and even Charles are up there in age. All she has to do is ride this one out and she could possibly follow in the foot steps of Queen Maxima and Queen Letizia by becoming Queen Consort in her 40’s. Even if Queen Elizabeth loathes Kate, there’s nothing she can do about her marriage to William. He picked her and she is not going to give up her role as a future Queen Consort, no way.
And as we know, waiting is what she does best!!
“He picked her and she is not going to give up her role as a future Queen Consort, no way. ” If William decides to move on from Kate Middleton, she will have no say in the matter.
@LAK 🙂
I still believe William won’t be King, I don’t think anyone will be able to stop him when he decides he really wants out. No one.
How much do the Royaloonies here want to bet that it will be a Middleton Christmas at Sandringham this year? Not at the main house or doing the walk of course but definitely at Amner.
I wonder how much money I can make on that? 😀
This cannot be anything other than obvious. If someone wants to bet on this, I’m with you Reece.
I’d lose that bet. I’m sure as well that the Midds will be established at Anmer for the holidays.
It’s interesting to consider what will happen to the English monarchy once the Queen passes. When William eventually becomes king will he have the drive, commitment, and skills needed to keep the system affloat? Will he and Kate be able to keep public opinion of the monarchy high so people can justify part of their taxes funding their livelihood (+ endless vacations and lazy schedules)? To be honest, given how beholden they are to avoid royal work and focus on their own private lives, I doubt it. I really wonder how it will turn out and I know it may seem like a stretch now, yet history can prove it is, indeed, possible. I just cannot see William and Kate as leaders, in any sense of the word. I have a strange feeling that we seeing the twilight years of it all. Man, it would be amusing as hell to witness them bring down the ancient *archaic* tradition of the English monarchy. Simply imagine the drama…
Yes, we like watching history enfold, and drama is alway entertaining. Just think of the stories the younger ones of us, will tell.