Lena Dunham covers the new issue of Paper Magazine. The editorial is meh, but the interview – conducted by Jane Fonda – is actually sort of interesting. If you read the full piece (here) you have to get through a mountain of Lena’s self-involved BS, but there are some genuinely interesting quotes. And while I still don’t care for Lena as a person, even I have to admit… she’s not wrong about everything.
How women are not welcome in film: “Something happened where suddenly 14-year-old boys started running our economy, and I don’t know how that happened considering it’s not a realistic reflection of what the population is or what the population wants. But, nonetheless, here we have it and so suddenly a studio doesn’t understand the use for a movie with a strong, complicated female lead like Coming Home or Klute.”
Asking the feminism question: “This year there was a huge rash of journalists asking young actresses, “Do you consider yourself a feminist?” and some of them said “No.” Like, “I’m more of a humanist” or “I’m interested in equality” and it really did feel like the journalists were trying to do this “gotcha” on young women who maybe hadn’t been educated about the term and I think that’s the thing, you don’t naturally learn about what it means to be a feminist. You need to receive an education from, preferably, a really smart woman older than you who really has an understanding of what the movement has meant.”
Being a size 10 in Hollywood: “What I always say about the characters I play is that they have a lot of problems and none of them have to do with them being a little overweight….Anyone that’s ever gone on a diet knows that losing 5, 10, 15 pounds isn’t the thing that sends you barreling towards a stronger sense of self. And so for me, I felt like I wanted to play these characters who were held back by things, but none of the things that were holding them back were from being chubby or being short, and they dressed in a way that didn’t hide it. All the characters I play always dress like they’re a size 0 when they’re actually a size 10. Some might call it “delusional” and I like to think about it as this sort of rocket confidence that’s a little unearned but better than the opposite.”
Her own body image: “I think that it was important to me also to announce that “this is what I look like. I don’t have an interest in changing unless it’s on my own terms” — I won’t say I’ll never lose weight in my life, but it’d have to be for reasons that made sense to me and weren’t to try to meet some industry standard. So many women — young women, older women, even men — have said to me that it was in some way empowering for them just to see someone who would allow themselves to go on TV looking the way they do.”
She might adopt: “In terms of adoption, I’m amazed by it. I have endometriosis, and I’ve said to my boyfriend, “If fertility ends up being a challenge for me, I’m not gonna be the person who spends six years in IVF” because while I’m really intrigued by the possibility of carrying a child in my body, and I don’t judge anyone else’s choices, for me, years and years of hormones and body manipulation wouldn’t work for my psychology and my body and it’s not important enough to me that my child come out of my body and it’s not important to me, really at all, that the child belonged to Jack and me on a genetic level. It’s important to me that we have the right child for us and take the right kind of care of them. There’s so much talk of infertility like, “Am I gonna be able to have a baby? Is my body broken?” and once that fear was gone, the whole prospect of having a baby actually got so much more exciting to me.
I’ve actually never thought about the psychology behind Lena dressing like she had a completely different body type. I think there’s something to be said for confidence and owning that part of herself and not being ashamed of not looking perfect, especially when she’s playing a specific character. But… how does she then explain her terrible red carpet looks? Because in real life, it often feels like Lena is trolling for attention, like she wants to be part of a conversation of “Why did she wear THAT?”
As for her talk about young women getting the “feminist question” – I’ll give her some begrudging credit, because there really was some of that happening, where “Are you a feminist?” became a gotcha question. To be fair though, some not-so-young women were screwing the pooch on that question too, and they didn’t have the “oh, she’s too young to understand!” excuse.
Photos courtesy of Ellen Von Unwerth/Paper Magazine.
Wait, a miracle just occurred. I didn’t hate what came out of her mouth!
I know. I fell out of my chair at the thought of it.
I respect what she said here but I still want her to go away
I want her to go away so badly. GO AWAY.
Yeah that’s it for me too. She’s not wrong here, but my gut reaction to her is not favorable no matter what.
Yes can we put her and Kanye on the same ice floe, let them duke it out for the most intellectually superior?
For a minute I thought that was Johnny Depp…..
Me too!!!! Weird.
ME TOO!! Ugh.
I think she’s finally found her look. It’s the most attractive I’ve ever seen and I don’t mean the chocolate-licking pic. She does the Victor-Victoria thing very well.
LOL!
i thought it was a busted gene kelly
OMG, me too!!!
You don’t have to hide the fact that you’re a size 10 ( which btw, is not even remotely large), but there’s a thing called dressing for your body. There are clothes out there that showcase curves in the right way. It seems like she’s being counterproductive-focusing on the size rather than feeling good no matter what you look like.
+1
i thought the editorial looked great… she has the type of face like kstew…. without makeup they look blah as FFFFF…. but throw on some almost kizz drag level makeup and they can really shine and bring into character for that shoot….. i call this a win for lena
I agree with Lena?!?! I hear four horsemen galloping fast down my street.
I love everything she said here. I love how she’s not afraid to go nude on her show and dresses ‘like a size 0’. Screw the dressing for your body type, dress however the eff you want.
Whitney, I agree with you- loves what she said, how she looks and her fearlessness.
I disagree very strongly that one needs to be educated about feminism.
What’s so hard to understand that everyone is equal, that one half of the population are humans, just like the other half?
Being self involved is where people, no matter their level of privilege or lack of, become blinkered and start to say things like we have to teach people that other humans deserve the same privileges as other humans.
It didn’t take education to see that civil rights were a no brainer. Ditto any other system of inequality where one set of people hold all the power and using that power to subjugate the people without power.
You can’t tell me that an 11yr old child from Pakistan, Malala, needed to be educated to the fact that she couldn’t go to school on the basis of her gender because otherwise she couldn’t see that for herself or other girls. To name one extreme example in the modern world.
The idea that feminism is some complex issue is exactly why women’s rights are being held back or repealed or not advancing.
I think she meant educated on what the word actually means. So many young ladies say they are not feminists because they want everyone to be equal and they don’t even realize that’s what feminism means! But when I look back to my own younger days, I realize there has always been a louder group proclaiming feminism is man hating in some way, and I have to admit I didn’t really grasp it until I really paid attention and saw people trying to take women’s rights away, and then was infuriated.
I have to disagree with you here. Firstly, I think she was talking specifically about the term “feminism.” Which, is true. From personal experience, calling yourself a feminist can result in quite a bit of animosity being directed at you. A lot of the people who say “no, I’m not a feminist” like to follow up with things like “I believe everyone should be equal” – kind of like what was mentioned in the quotes above. But that’s what feminism advocates for – equality, eliminating inherent privileges that serve to oppress those from marginalized groups. Clearly, the people who say things like that need to be educated on what feminism is. For too many people, feminists are man haters and believe women should rule everything etc. etc.
I also think you’re wrong on the point that “it didn’t take education to see that civil rights were a no brainer” for many people, it did. Many people grew up in households that reject the idea that all people should be equal and spew animosity towards oppressed peoples based on their race, religion, what have you.
The problem isn’t that civil rights and feminism are complex ideas, the problem is pervasive beliefs about the inherent superiority of one group over another and also the stigma attached to words like “feminism.”
And I disagree with both of you. So what if people grow up with values that encourage self involvement.
For every excuse one gives to hold up a power structure, that excuse merely serves to emphasise the self involvement.
Men as a group (to use one example) aren’t brought up indoctrinated that they are less than. On the other hand women are. And that’s why they fail in the face of a challenge which asks them to identify with a simple concept.
No man ever says he doesn’t believe in his own rights, how ever said rights have been labelled.
I am actually so tired of the question being put to celebrities. It’s gotten old.
Not understanding the definition is one thing… I’m way more baffled by the apparent lack of real-word experience in people who don’t even seem to grasp that they are treated or perceived differently because of their gender.
I almost got fired from a job once because my mysogynistic older male boss asked me to sharpen his pencil, so I brought him a pencil sharpener. I didn’t go to school to learn how to sharpen pencis and he would not have asked a male assistant to do that. It was a request meant to oppress and put me in my place. That was my first office job with a real estate developing company. My second office job was for the Department of Ag. I worked under an African American man who was in his 50’s or 60s. I remember a farmer coming in and asking “where’s that boy?” I asked, “Are you referring to Mr. Hicks? He’s no boy.” That farmer looked like he could shrink right into himself. What an ignorant f–k!
Can’t believe it myself, but I actually agree on the feminism thing.
When my parents marriage ended as a young child I understood that if Mom didn’t have a job, and there was no one to babysit me we’d be in trouble. Her ability to do that safely and on par with others was necessary for our survival. If Lena thinks that you don’t naturally learn about feminism she can speak for herself because I figured it out by the age of seven.
But you did learn about it from a strong, wise woman (your mom) that’s exactly what Lena’s point was!
I don’t think she is a size 10, more a like a size 14/16, maybe 18. Which is fine, but if you are being you blah blah blah, own it.
I agree. I’m a size 10 and there’s no way we are the same size. Although I am taller than her so there’s that.
But then again, really expensive clothes are sized smaller…and…well…my clothes aren’t exactly expensive…
She’s extremely short, so I think she can look heavier and still wear a smaller size. My sister in law is much chubbier than I am, but I’m almost a foot taller than she is. She wears the same size or smaller sizes than me in some things. Everyone’s body is different.
Thanks for this. People fail to understand that height plays a huge role in sizing.
I thought she wasn’t doing promotion for Girls.
Also, in no world is Lena a size 10. That’s some wishful thinking right there.
Depends on how tall she is. Also, the camera adding 10 lbs is no joke. Also, people really do carry weight differently. People are always shocked to hear my size/Weight. They think I’m smaller than i am, and I think it’s flattering clothes and how I carry my weight. And to be fare to lena, she makes NO effort to video herself in a flattering fashion.
Honestly, Lena looks big in photos…But then again, you’re comparing her to size zero tiny wee things. Of course she’s going to look like an elephant compared to them. I believe 100% that she’s a size 10. She’s probably a very average/normal size if you saw her in person. The camera really does add 10 pounds.
I agree that it became a gotcha question, but I’m glad it did. This is how I see it:
Almost all the women who were asked were white, from upper-middle class backgrounds and successful actresses. They have all the opportunities in the world for education. Even if they came from a background where they didn’t have a great education, they have zero excuse to not educate themselves now.
They know they’re going to be asked topical questions, and the ‘are you a feminist’ question became topical. Why-oh-why, then, didn’t they, or their publicists, or their agents, say ‘hey, this is becoming a pretty big thing and I might get asked about it. I should read up on it’. Alternatively, it is extremely simple to say ‘I don’t feel as if I’m well-informed enough about X to give an intelligent response’ or ‘I believe women and men are equal’.
If you’re a privileged white female with money you have no excuse to not know the very simple definition of feminism. Unless you’re an MRA, you almost certainly are one.
It is SO important that men and women identify as feminists. If you let people buy into the feminazi/man-hating narrative then THEY get to define the word, and the meaning of ‘feminism’ will change from ‘women gaining equality with men’ to ‘women who think they’re better than men and/or dislike them’.
Your last paragraph is everything 🙌🏼