Sally Field is 70 years old. I know I should realize this based on how long she been working on television and film, but I still assume she’s in her mid to late 50s. She’s my mom’s age, she’s seen and been through some sh*t and she’ll tell you about it. Sally is promoting the independent film Hello My Name is Doris, in which she plays an older woman who develops a crush on a man half her age, played by Max Greenfield. We previously saw Sally make out with both Stephen Colbert and Max Greenfield (I’m jealous of her for both) to promote the film. She has a new extensive interview with Buzzfeed and she has a lot to say about struggling to find work in a male-dominated industry and about diversity in Hollywood as it relates to feminism. Here’s some of what she told Buzzfeed, and the piece is long and well worth a read:
On playing an older woman falling for a man half her age
If he were the woman and I were the man, this wouldn’t be so odd in people’s eyes.She started a production company in 1984
It was extremely difficult to get really interesting, diverse projects set up. They weren’t interested in seeing nurses in Vietnam; this was before Platoon. I’ve got news for you, audiences would have been interested in seeing it and it should have been made. We were beating on the doors. But in those days, the Sundance Film Festival hadn’t happened like it is, independent film wasn’t available… there wasn’t the same kind of drumbeat to find a way to get a film made that’s so unique.On speaking out about the lack of opportunities for women in Hollywood
I remember when Diane Keaton commented on this because she too had a development company and it was impossible for us to find projects or get them developed. She said, ‘This is not fair! The difference between projects available to men and available to women is not fair!’ And they slammed her for that. They called her a whiner.On diversity in Hollywood
A sign of progress is when the proof is in the pudding. Show me where that is, folks. I don’t know. There’s a huge conversation about diversity happening across the boards — which is what it always should have been — that has to do with color and race and gender preferences and men and women. I think perhaps the fact it’s not just women now, that there’s others involved… I have to say, honestly, the fact men are involved. Thank god for African-American men. You go, boys! We’re right behind you. Because the women would still be shut out. It’s sad but true. If it were just Jen Lawrence and Amy Schumer — bless their beautiful, talented hearts — they would be shut out. I know it. It would be, ‘Oh, poor little rich girl.’ You know? So I’m standing right behind Beasts of No Nation. I’m with them. Maybe that’s because of my generation of women, who kind of went, ‘I already feel beat up, so I am accepting it.’ I [didn’t] head right towards them and say, ‘Ef you and the horse you rode in on.’ Which, you know, might not have been a bad idea.
At first when I read Sally’s thoughts on diversity I thought that she was saying the men were paving the way for us, but Kaiser and I talked about it and she thinks she’s saying that black men are helping us have a larger conversation on diversity and that she’s praising them for their intersectionalism. When we have more diversity in film we all benefit, and more of our stories get told. I grew up in a different generation and I had more opportunities thanks to the work of women in Sally’s generation. We’re talking about the wage gap and about representation in media and it must have stung when it was so much worse and yet it was taboo to publicly acknowledge it.
All women are White and All Blacks are men. The Oscar so White hastag was made by a Black woman , Jada’s video took the conversation to another level. Most people talking about the discrimination in Black hollywood are Black women. Everyone else just piggyback on and hijacked movement (including Black male). Just like affirmative action, White women will be/are the biggest beneficiary of the diversity talk.
huh?? How does affirmative action help women? If you are talking about schools, as far as I know women are actually at a disadvantage- more qualified women than men apply, but they want to keep the gender ratios 50/50 at most schools
I don’t think she’s talking specifically about affirmative action. I think OP is saying when diversity is allowed, white women will be the most likely to benefit versus other minorities. Because they are white.
What nubiahbella writes about white women and affirmative action is actually true: http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/
Speaking from my experience of working for the federal government for ten years.
While there, I witnessed a lot of hiring discrimination against Black men, and a lot of positive hiring discrimination for Black women.
The way I noticed this ongoing process was that it was pointed out to me by my Black male coworkers. We would be chatting, and the subject of some job opening would come up, and these guys would be like, “I’m applying for it, but I’m not going to get it. I can’t get promoted. The white guys upstairs will promote Valerie whose office is right next to mine, but they won’t promote me.”
And you know what? I started paying more attention to the hiring announcements and I realized they were right. Basically, the older white guys in senior management find Black women to be much less threatening than Black men, plus they get two diversity plus-points and not just one for hiring a Black women – leaving the next job opening available for their white male friends. Win-win!
SMH.
All The Blacks Are men , All the women are White
And here I stand, an alien.
And there are no Asians?
Latino/as and Native peoples, too!
It’s like they don’t understand that race and gender (etc.) are not mutually exclusive!
Apparently not …..sigh
Nice comments. But what I’m reading is that black WOMEN still don’t exist.
Apparently not. That was just weird.
Trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think she was saying that. I think she’s saying that it’s helping to have men join the fight that women have been fighting for so long for more opportunities in film. I think she was remiss not to mention black women but in context her remarks aren’t deliberately excluding them.
I think that’s what she was trying to say too – that men pushing for diversity helps because the old white guys in charge don’t listen to women. It’s a little vague and not well worded, but I think that’s what she was getting at.
I can see how you would take that and it does sort of come across that way, but what I think she meant was that if men didn’t say anything then the establishment wouldn’t have listened. That when it was just women regardless of race and she used two white women because well they got the most attention recently, it has been dismissed as whiny and unimportant. Less then a real issue.
However, when it became about this happening to men too then oh yeah now we have an issue. She could have used Traci Ross, Viola Davis as examples instead of JLaw but I think she just went with who was in the news.
That’s how I read it too. She is saying we wouldn’t have a discussion about feminism right now if a discussion about diversity (which includes men–albeit non-white men) didn’t precede it.
And she may be right. The first atypical president was a black male, not a female. She’s saying male privilege outweighs white privilege. I’ve thought this before. I’m not so sure that this is generalizable but I think there is substantial evidence (post Civil Rights era) to make you wonder.
My take is she meant it like voting – first black men (really any race but until then it was just white men) and then, eventually…..women as a whole. She might even have said that and it got edited out.
I thought she was referring specifically to the Oscar snubs that are making diversity a conversation right now. She said she stands behind Beasts of No Nation and African-American men, as in, Idris Elba, Abraham Attah, Ryan Coogler, and Michael B Jordan.
(Obviously this version of her argument should still be criticized.)
I get what you guys are saying. I still feel that in a conversation about racism and diversity, black men aren’t the only ones who should be mentioned.
Definitely agree. I have to say, I found it a little odd that every time OscarsSoWhite came up, people would list black male actors who had been overlooked, but no one brought up black actresses, or actors/actresses of other races. That’s really telling about the opportunities that are out there. There weren’t even other contenders because the roles aren’t there.
It still blows my mind that women in the US were given the right to vote less than 100 years ago.
“It still blows my mind that white women in the US were given the right to vote less than 100 years ago.” #fixed
In Switzerland they were given the right to vote in 1971.
Yikes. That’s unbelievably late.
Canada – 1918 (Manitoba in 1916).
In Portugal it was in 1928, during a fascist regime, that considered the women’s role to be mother and wife… Go figure..
(but only to those who were head of family and that could read and write, and this was also applied to men)
Sh!t so she is one of the ones that got it right??!!
Firstly,I want to thank women of her generation for fighting for women. She and my mother’s generation fought to be taken seriously and because of them, my generation has reaped the benefits of that. I will always be thankful.
Secondly, I agree with some of the comments above. Where’s the acknowledge of African-American women? When talking about diversity you need to include everyone in that conversation.
I do think she is lumping all women together, viewing their struggle as the same in Hollywood which is true and not true at the same time. Viola Davis has it much harder then Sally Field, just like all women of color do but I don’t think Sally is trying to exclude or ignore I think she is trying to bring strength in numbers and have women stand as a group. Its the right ideaif they are willing to address that there isn’t just one set of problems facing women and work intersectionally, but there is flawed logic.
There is a very real issue of not acknowledging black women or only assigning the struggles of AA to our men. I wanted so badly to cheer for her comments thinking she’d mention us but no…just totally absent. Again.
Sigh.
Are black women not included in “women?”
@Jay no, black women (or any non white woman) are not usually included when some people say women. I said this down thread, but when most conversations come up about race and inequality when they refer to women, they really mean white women. Non-white women get lumped into the “minority” category.
Exactly Aiobhan.
Jay If she can specify black man that what is stopping her from specifying black women? Our struggles are alike but not identical and yet many times we find ourselves some nameless faceless figure in the face of the discussion which always focuses on white feminism.
And it is always about white feminism. It is about issues that either do not reach us or hits us twice as hard than the level it’s being discussed at.
Small rant: please stop saying women when you mean white women. For example, women and minorities. White women do not represent all women. I don’t stop being a women because I identify as a person of color.
Sally means well but some of her comments are… cringeworthy at best.
Since when did ‘women’ NOT encompass ALL women?
ffsakes people are LOOKING to create hatred where is isn’t – someone up thread is claiming when women say women that ONLY mean white women – wtf? of course they don’t.
It’s attitudes like yours that cause a black male journalist to call out NOW because there were silent about the way a cop brutalized a 14 year black girl at a pool party.
Give us some examples of how feminist movements are including women of color. Show us where they’ve addressed cultural and socioeconomic issues of women of color. The suffragette movement did everything they could to make sure black women DID not get the right to vote.
What pops in your mind when you hear the word “woman?”
Thank you, Bunnybun. These are facts.
Im noit engaging with your poisonous attitude – I have NO attitude Lady – when a women says WOMAN she is reffering to women as a group-NO exclusions – throw your deeply fucked up at someone else.
The Feminist movement – ALL of its ‘results’ affect all women – Yanks like you have a really fucked up way of looking at it – the cognitive dissonance is off the charts – if you think feminism has done NOTHING for black women. The resy=t of the world is frankly far more sane on the subject – take responsibility for your Countries very different take on things -the rest of the world DOESNT think like you.
@soirse
I am not an American and even I know this that this is a blind spot for many
did it ever occur to you that ” yanks ” think that way because that is their reality?
For Instance should someone who doesn’t live in Norway embrace the Norwegian perspective on feminism as their reality ?
It is always interesting to me how people love to discredit other peoples lived experiences
Even with all the words you spouted you STILL failed to address anything Bunnybun said. It’s nice that you can close your eyes to the fact that white women were afforded certain privileges before those of color and also that you can deny the fact that black women have been shut out of certain conversations and movements. Those of us who are living it can’t. Your response shows that you don’t care about the experiences of others.
As in many other cases, white is the “default setting”. “Women” nearly always refers to white women – whether intentional or not. Black women often fall into the semantic gap between “women” and “ethnic minority”. Other POC barely get a look in at all.
Thing is, white women and black women (and women of other races and heritage) face vastly different problems. Hence the whole need for intersectionality.
Thank you, AlmomdJoy, censored, and Forgottenusername.
Siorese, I’m sure you flounced off and passed out on faintimg couch, kercheif in hand, after you wrote your response. It’s responses like yours that many women of color (and I mean all women not of European dececent, which I hope you DO understand a lot of American white women are). The unfortunate thing is that your response is not uncommon. Instead of trying to prove me wrong and back up your claim, you go into a mascara-running, foot-stomping tirade and try to act like you’re the victim.
Maybe you try to get to know some black, latino, asian, and middle eastern women. Because it seems like you don’t know or talk to any of them outside of work.
Because historically, ‘women’ has meant white women in most people’s minds and in public conversation. For example, when (white) people in the 19th century said things like ‘women can’t do hard work, their constitutions are too delicate’ they meant white women and completely ignored slave women doing damn hard work in the fields, etc.
Also, it never hurts to listen to other people when they try to explain why they are frustrated. Just because you may assume that your experiences are universal doesn’t make it so.
Aye dios, this is horrible and exactly why Beyoncé’s video was so great. Where are the black women?? Who’s fighting for them??
And what about black women?
She is saying that it’s all about men, and that the whole ridiculous diversity discussion doesn’t actually mean diversity, but it means “MALE” diversity. Or, in other words – let’s all talk about including men who ware not WHITE and be proud of it, but oh, there’s women too? We forgot about that. Who cares.
I couldn’t understand what she was saying, if I’m honest. I need other people to parse out what she meant.
black women…. the most non-visibility group on the PLANET
we get shut out of feminist talks…. shut out of black lives matter discussion mostly… shut out of sexuality liberation talks…. shut out of entertainment diversity talks….
-signed a black woman
If you think black women are “non-visible” then spare a thought for native american, aboriginal and asian women.
We’re all invisible… But I’m assuming each person is speaking from their own experience.
May I please express my great gratitude to so many, so smart fellow Celebitchy commenters who continue to broaden my worldview and educate me on subjects that I otherwise just wouldn’t hear about? Thank you.
I’m a white Middle-European woman and some things simply are not part of public conversation here (yet). I was always far from being racist, but you Celebitchers made me realise that I’m f***ing ignorant regarding many everyday struggles that people of colour are facing. I feel pretty naive, in retrospect. It never ocurred to me, for example, how WHITE feminist discourse is in general. I have come to regard my own privilege more open-eyed as exactly that: white privilege. I realise more and more how many important things I didn’t give another thought, because I was used to living in my white, middle-class, Middle-European bubble. It wasn’t even malevolence, just ignorance. And I understand more and more just how hurtful that kind of benevolent ignorance is in itself.
Yes, we’re all women. That doesn’t mean that I know about other women’s particular struggles. What I took away from reading Celebitchy (along with a lot of laughs, and gossip knowledge), is this: Sometimes, as a white person, you just need to shut up and listen, and not out of guilt, or courtesy, but out of necessity, because YOU DON’T KNOW SH*T ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS.
So thank you, ladies.