Yes, I knew this would happen. Lucy Flores was the one to break the dam. Now there’s a flood of women coming out to talk about Joe Biden being gross and inappropriate with them. Yesterday, we discussed the Connecticut woman who claims Biden grabbed her head and forced her to touch noses with him in 2009. This is what the next few weeks will be, if not the next six months if Joe Biden decides to run for president. Which I hope Biden knows should not happen at this point. He had his time as vice president, his record on women’s rights and women’s issues is not great, and frankly, he’s too old and too handsy for higher office at this point. Enough.
Yesterday, the New York Times published two more accounts of Biden behaving inappropriately with women. One woman was only 19 years old and a college student when this happened:
Caitlyn Caruso, a former college student and sexual assault survivor, said Mr. Biden rested his hand on her thigh — even as she squirmed in her seat to show her discomfort — and hugged her “just a little bit too long” at an event on sexual assault at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas. She was 19.
Ms. Caruso, now 22, said she chalked up the encounter at the time to how men act, and did not say anything publicly. But she said it was particularly uncomfortable because she had just shared her own story of sexual assault and had expected Mr. Biden — an architect of the 1994 Violence Against Women Act — to understand the importance of physical boundaries.
“It doesn’t even really cross your mind that such a person would dare perpetuate harm like that,” she said. “These are supposed to be people you can trust.”
I’m sure that in Biden’s mind, he was being comforting towards a young woman who seemed fragile. But surely another way of looking at it is that he saw a young woman who seemed fragile and he compounded her discomfort by touching her intimately on the thigh? There was also this incident from 2012, with a writer named D.J. Hill:
“When she and her husband, Robert, stepped up to take their photograph with the vice president, he put his hand on her shoulder and then started dropping it down her back, which made her “very uncomfortable.”
Her husband, seeing the movement, put his hand on Mr. Biden’s shoulder and interrupted with a joke. Ms. Hill did not say anything at the time and acknowledged that she does not know what Mr. Biden’s intention was or whether he was aware of her discomfit.
“Only he knows his intent,” she said. But norms are changing now, she said, and “if something makes you feel uncomfortable, you have to feel able to say it.”
I’ve seen various Democrats caping for Biden in the wake of these stories, and let me just say… those Dems are missing the point. No one is really making the argument that Biden is a Weinstein-esque predator. We’re saying that for decades, he’s made women uncomfortable because he’s always been too handsy. These Dems should not consider this new information either – we’ve known it about him for years. Enough is enough, and these women have every right to tell their stories.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
Go home, Joe.
I don’t agree. I had a therapist bear hug me in the 80s when I disclosed I was a sexual assault survivor. It was a “thing” back when to demonstrate “safe” touch, and some old school ppl still feel this way. We’re all getting more educated as a culture, and it’s a slow process. I’m sorry, I can’t get w Joes’ behavior as entitled AT ALL. Uneducated, yes, entitled mans’ club NO> If we give into the takedown of EVERY QUALIFIED CANDIDATE, we’ll have to present Mother Theresa’s ashes for our only option. C’mon peeps, use this as a teachable moment, not a cancellation. Ugh.
I would buy that if he did it to everyone but he only does it to woman and girls.
Velet, he does do it to everyone. Please google “joe Biden hugging men” or “joe Biden hugging Obama”. There are pages of results.
Everyone, please stop. This is what trump and the Russians want. Let’s not tear each other apart over hugging.
I see more unusual coments here. MeThinks the troll bot farm hath descended upon CB 🙁
Couldn’t agree more with this post.
Actually, Kaiser, the right-wing extremists, like Charlie Kirk, ARE saying that Biden is a Weinstein-like predator, while they continue to defend Kavanaugh for attempted rape and dismiss all claims of Trump’s misconduct.
The Republicans are shameless, and yet the Democrats have to still make clear that Biden’s behavior has been poor on its own terms. Thankfully he’s not the only gift under the tree.
So true Lightpurple. Compared to Trump and crybaby Kavanaugh this is nothing. Touching anyone in a weird way is wrong, but compared to those two assholes this is just nothing.
Trump’s behavior has been so loathsome for decades. God how I hate him.
And where trump retaliated w derogatory take downs & court sport threats, Biden has responded w admission of what he felt was human and authentic, yet w a willingness to understand & change.
Time for him to take a seat.
I really don’t think he’s a violent predator. I think he’s of that old-school men’s club mentality where he can put his hands on women because he’s “just being friendly” or because he thinks he gets to show his affection any way he damn well pleases. He treats women like pets to be petted.
There are a few men I know like this, older men. One man in my family thinks it’s OK to kiss female family members right on the lips. I avoid the shit out of him. He’s a father and honestly a loving and nice man, but he can not get his mind around the physical autonomy of women! So he grosses me out and I avoid him. That’s what Biden is like to me. He should have learned long ago…
I was listening to Pod Save yesterday and they were talking about how older people don’t understand why this is a problem. My mom is the same age as Biden so I gave her a call to ask her opinion on the matter. She said Biden’s behavior is creepy and that someone his age should know better. This is not an age thing. This Biden being handsy and creepy.
I agree, this is not a age thing, it’s inappropriate behavior that he had been getting away with for to long. He should know better but did not give a damn. Joe needs to sit down and let new blood in the party shine. We have lots of young up and coming in the party who are very smart. I notice BO did not endorse him, he knows joe has a lot of baggage and BO wants the party 🎉 to take back the presidency. Can’t wait for the first debate.
My late mother would have said it was a problem, too. A creep is a creep.
Also, if Biden continued to inappropriately touch just 3 years ago … um.
It is an age thing, on Biden’s part. Men of that age think it’s totally ok to belittle women in many ways. I’ve pretty much parted company with my father in law because I won’t stand for it any more. He likes to call me girl, I’m in my 40’s. He answers every fact I state with a “if you say so”. I could be reading from the encyclopedia and that would be his response. He calls me stupid for not padding my business deductions. “Oh you must be rich if you want to throw money away like that.” I’m not rich, I’m also not a criminal. I just call him on it every single time now. So much so that my sister in law wrote me a letter telling me to stop being “mean” to her dad, btw she’s in her 60s and still supported financially by him. I just avoid him now. I will also still support Biden in the general if he wins the primary. I was never going to vote for him in the primary anyway.
I asked my middle eastern father in law who is 70 about it too, and he said it’s completely inappropriate to touch women without their consent, even if its women you know. My father in law won’t even hug me unless I initiate it because he’s so respectful of boundaries. It’s not an age thing, it’s a privilege thing.
Yep, one of the pharmacists I worked with was like that. Very kind man, but he was definitely handsy – and not just with women, mind. He tended to dominate spaces without realizing it, and I suspect a lot of it was the socioeconomic class he came from. Some people are just used to being able to get away with anything without thinking about the consequences.
There are reasons that I am not interested in Joe as a candidate, but this isn’t really one of them.
Some men just think they can touch women anytime. True story: I was in a theater on Broadway a few years ago, sitting alone, waiting for a show to start. A handsome guy sat next to me, also alone. He was a businessman (or looked like it), and seemed safe enough. I decided to make small talk. I literally only asked, “do you know anything about this musical?” and as he answered my question he started touching me. After only 10 seconds of meeting me, he’s stroking my arm. I had to make up a lie about going to the bathroom to escape. I got an usher to give me a different seat. So many guys are like this, I am doubtful uncle Joe will suffer long term. But DT will sure milk this, cause he’s a hypocrite.
Rapunzel, I would have done the same as you in that theater, run to the bathroom. But what I am working on is learning how to say STOP. Like the woman in this post said: “Only he knows his intent,” but… “if something makes you feel uncomfortable, you have to feel able to say it.”
I can think of a few ideas of what to say to handsy theater guy. Anything from “Don’t touch my arm,” to “I feel uncomfortable when you touch my arm, cut it out,” to “Take your F*ING hand off my arm!” I’m trying to figure out words that I, personally, can say in such a moment, words that feel natural to me. And I’m practicing saying them out loud, to myself and with my friends, in hopes that they will come out easily in the moment of need.
Women have to learn how to speak out!! Obviously nobody taught us how to, just as nobody taught these guys NOT to be handsy. It’s our body to defend. We don’t have to run away and say nothing (which has been my default response). There are alternatives, but it’s hard to break patterns. Guys MUST learn. And in the meantime, I want to learn how to speak my truth, too.
This. Even if their intentions aren’t bad, there are certain realities girls and women worry about more, which is part of the reason why there’s a need to be mindful of not causing discomfort like that when it comes to touching and boundaries.
Twitter is going nuts because Rick Wilson (a republican with no standing on this issue or any issue that impacts women btw), made the claim that the Sanders camp is behind this. LOL I mean, he’s got no evidence, but the Sanders camp is besides itself.
Speaking of having no standing, Nutmeg McCain was on a real role about Biden yesterday. She loves him and loves when he hugs her. Oh okay, Megan with an H, as long as you like hugging him then we all have to be okay with his hands on us. I had to threaten my mother with Shady Brook again yesterday because I was trying to work and heard that McCain screech and my blood pressure shot up immediately. I told her, you better shut that View off or we’re going for a ride!
Rick was a GOP operative for years. It was literally his job to do this kind of thing so I wouldn’t just discount his claim out-of-hand. That being said, I wonder why he wouldn’t believe that this was Trump’s people or any number of Republicans who view Biden as a threat? Not every Rethug had a great working relationship with Biden when he was VP. Plenty still have an axe to grind.
That being said, Sirota is not one to be underestimated. Dude has been in on the dirty tricks for quite sometime now so who knows…
I agree, It definitely could be, and Sirota is everything you say. I just thought it was funny seeing a republican throw around accusations with no evidence, which is what they do. I do think it could be the Sanders camp though.
@kitten, did you hear Don the Con saying his father was born in Germany yesterday? The man lies so much he is denying his father was born in New York. His grandfather was German. I read a comment yesterday it says, “ maybe his grandfather is his father, it’s known to have happened a few times”. I thought that was so funny.
I follow Rick on Twitter and his comments about what Dems are doing wrong always make me laugh. Sometimes I agree with him but most of the time I just want to point to his party and remind him that he’s in no position to give advice. Like, Trump is the face the GOP now. That CLOWN who doesn’t know where his father was born and can’t pronounce “origins” is who YOUR people elected LOL.
@ B N A Fan-LOL we must have been typing at the same time 😉
My brother thinks that he just meant to say his granfather but FFS, STILL NOT OK!
My father is his age and I can’t imagine him making that mistake…nuts.
He said it on four different occasions, different month, so it’s not a mistake. He’s losing his mind, lol.
MM was completely unhinged yesterday
Only yesterday? ; )
See! She must have been because I am telling you I heard that screeching from my office in the house, and started yelling Shady Brook! so my mom knew to turn it off. LOL
Haha, that’s some funny stuff Darla!
Darla, LOL! I’m dying with the “Shady Brook” threat. Hilarious! I have to remember that one when my mom starts quoting Laura Inghram again. Your comment made my morning.
hahhha, just to be clear, she knows I am kidding and she gets the joke. But I am only half kidding because right now there are some things I just cannot tolerate, and Meghan is up there on the list. My mom is a dem, so she laughs…but she changes the channel too best believe it. LOL
Rick Wilson was saying that based on Flores being a Bernie supporter.
I’m no Republican but honestly Rick Wilson is one of the loudest voices constantly calling Trump out – and I think he fills a useful role in the media demonstrating that not all people who identify as Republicans support Trump. We seriously need all the help we can get and I’m not going to discount Trump-fighters who are Republican because those are exactly the people who IMO are necessary to sway whatever remnants of the traditionally Republican voting populace might vote against Trump in 2020.
Ha ha! I love Nutmeg McCain. My theory is if Kate is a Duchess who is a mastermind that can “vaporize” rivals, Bernie’s camp can come up with this evil plan and Nutmeg knows that if she loves someone it turns all others off to that person. They’re trying to vaporize Joe Biden! Kidding clearly, but Bernie is definitely another ol’ white guy, imo, who is privileged and can’t apologize sincerely. He buys the hype of his charm, which I understand there are true Bernie-stans/bros out there – but you should never buy the hype and still try and grow. He’s just too ick for me and the gracious, true leadership move, would have been to step aside this election. I may have had some affection for him at some point if he had, but I admit I haven’t forgiven him for campaigning against Davids.
p.s. I admire your relationship with you mom.
nope. no more creepers in the white house. and that he doesn’t see it as out of bounds is perfect insight into male entitlement.
He’s not our only chance to win back the presidency. The Con man wants us to believe he’s afraid to run against him but he was waiting to beat him over the head with the Anita Hill’s debacle and a whole lot of negative comments. Don the Con don’t care if he has done worse or say worse, his mo is to lie and repeat lies. Remember what he did to Hillary at one debate, he had Bill’s women on stage to look at Hillary, at the same time he was paying off Stormy Daniels for sleeping with her. The man is Satan.
^^^THIS!
Don the con as you say, would love it, and he KNOWS that he can use it to depress dem turnout. He has no shame and does not care one tiny little bit that he has done much worse.
And guess what? He will be able to depress dem turnout with this tactic.
Kaiser, I wish you would be a little more clear on Biden. He authored the 1994 Violence Against Women Act and headed the Obama administration’s national campaign to combat sexual assault on college campuses. He’s been a pro-choice vote. He says he regrets how the Anita Hill hearings played out, but looking back I blame the GOP who were determined to get Thomas on the court far more than I blame Biden. Put the burden on HW Bush.
For every one of these accounts, there are more women saying their photos with Biden are misinterpreted in the media and they had a positive experience, or that they had a positive experience with Biden. Why are Dems always so determined to kill our chances before we get off the ground?
He was also a Forced Birther for many years. Not even 30 years ago he voted to let states overturn Roe v Wade.
Look, there are candidates that are perfectly capable of doing the job–probably far better than Biden TBH–who don’t have the level of baggage that he has.
We don’t need the distraction of Handsy Uncle Joe’s parade of women coming forward every other week during primary season.
We don’t need to gift Trump and the Rethuglicans with an easy target.
Additionally, while Joe has apologized for the way he sabotaged Anita Hill and his anti-choice past, he needs to understand that he can’t just wave a wand and make this all go away. People don’t forget shit like that. And honestly, it’s flat-out insulting to both the Dem candidates and Dem voters to be pushing this guy as The Only Democrat That Can Beat Trump just because he has name recognition and people have sentimental attachment to the guy. What will he do to make this country better when Trump is gone? What are his policies? How am I supposed to trust someone who’s political career involves inconsistency and tepidness when it comes to something as important as women’s bodily autonomy?
Sorry but Kaiser is right about this. People who think that Biden is the best Democratic party can offer are out-of-touch IMO.
I’m not saying Biden is the only one who could beat Trump. But let’s have a primary before we “cancel” one of the most beloved members of the Democratic Party and the most recent popular VP. He has high name recognition and wins every poll right now. Trump is obviously scared of him. So let’s have a primary based on people’s *actual* records.
Debates first and then we’ll see. So much can happen … and he might not even run. If he doesn’t run, things will shift and there will be a new front-runner.
He’s also not as beloved as all that, given his awful record of legislation that does not line up with the current mood of many Democratic voters. Look at who Democrats have been electing coast to coast: Biden does not fit that profile.
PS Trump will be scared of *whoever* the current front runner is, and work to knock them out of position. That’s just political common sense.
I’m fine with Biden being in the primary. If he doesn’t run, then I think Sanders jumps to the top–at least until we have the debates. He’s running really close to Biden in the polls and he also had the name-recognition thing going for him.
That being said, I also think polls this early should be mostly ignored. SO much can change between now and 2020 and there are candidates who hit the ground running early on this year and have been busting their asses campaigning in Iowa, NH etc for months while Joe is sitting around and weighing options. If he runs will he refuse PAC money? So many questions….
I’m so bummed out about this. I had this idealized version of Biden as president in my mind – thinking that he’d be able to woo enough old rich men. But I really hadn’t followed US politics much until Hilary started running. And I’m SO bummed. But I agree – he really is not the best candidate, and his behavior is a troubling, easy target.
It’s strange. Because there are some people who are warm and kind of touchy feely who manage to keep it at a level that isn’t creepy. While other people can do the exact same things and just come off SO skeezy. I’ve had a lot of older men telling me to smile – that’s about the worst of what I’ve had when it comes to direct interaction, and I’m INCREDIBLY lucky that that’s the worst. Our director is about 12 years older than I am. He basically sniped me from another team to bring onto his team – but it was in a professional, mentor sort of manner. He’s someone who will quietly joke around with people, he’ll kind of cuff you on the shoulder as he leaves a conversation or something. But it’s not in the TINIEST bit skeevy – and it’s only done with people he’s very familiar with. He’s literally picked me up from my house in near blizzard conditions to drive me to work because my old car would never have made it, and he had a truck with AWD. But he’s also made that offer to ANYONE who needs it. He’s just someone who’s such a great guy and so well liked. But he also is a professional, good guy who knows where lines are. He doesn’t put anyone in a position like Biden does – but he still manages to be super warm, inviting, and someone you’re comfortable with bringing serious issues with as well as taking a minute to chat and joke around with to remove yourself from office stress. He’s really the ideal boss in my eyes, and I’m so thankful to have him.
But I’m still so bummed out by Biden. I genuinely think his issue is that he doesn’t look at this problem through the lens of anyone other than a privileged older-generation white man. I really truly hope that he’s not knowingly being creepy and overbearing. But even having good intentions is often not enough – and that’s where the disconnect seems to come from.
I’m putting a lot of my hope into President Harris, though I think Warren is lovely. I just want to see her really bite back, I think, and Harris seems to have a bit more of an edge to her (from what I’ve seen so far). I’d love so much to see a woman running the white house, but if that’s not possible, I’d be happy to see a man who’s GENUINELY progressive. It’d be a step in the right direction, even if it’s not the ideal outcome. But if a woman can’t be president this round, I’ll be so mad if there isn’t a woman in the VP role.
“I just want to see her really bite back, I think, and Harris seems to have a bit more of an edge to her.”
Hi Erinn, if you have time later you should watch these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX5JuIc3RUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cKTBy7_S_I
There are so many other videos of Liz kicking ass in the senate but yes, the woman is PURE fight.
Well said Kitten.
He’s an adult man responsible for his behavior toward others. This isn’t weighted scale measuring the worth of your heart against a feather. People can do good things, mean well, and still have problematic tendencies. That’s part of what I don’t think many men get about sexism and misogyny. One of the reasons it’s so painful for women to talk about at times is that so often the men who cross the line are people we otherwise love and respect. It hurts because you want to trust them. Uncovering the reality of how their actions impact others is how you fix this situation in the long run.
Yesssss!! I agree with you 100%. It doesn’t matter how many good things he’s done, he still has to be responsible for his actions – even if he isn’t a violent predator and meant no harm.
I agree with you 100%. I’m a Democrat and a liberal, and while I see lots of talent and potential among the field of possible candidates, my number one priority in this next election is getting Trump out of office. He’s rolling back EPA guidelines–doing irreparable damage to our already fragile environment–alienating our most important allies, and giving praise and support to dictators. We’re in crisis. Democrats have got to stop attacking their own and realize what is truly at stake here. Joe Biden being “creepy” doesn’t hold a candle to repeated sexual assaulter Trump. Would I like to see someone other than Biden on the Democratic ticket? Yup. (Buttigieg forever!) But if it turns out he is the guy most likely to pull in former Trump supporters and take that orange menace down, then he’s going to get my support. Period.
The Anita Hill thing:
I understand what the knock is on Biden regarding that debacle.
And I personally think Biden is past his prime and should make way for other candidates even before this latest media storm.
But what sticks in my craw is that while knocking how Biden handled the Clarence Thomas hearings in 1991, all I can think of is — Clarence Thomas is still on the Supreme Court. In robust health and will likely be on the bench for many many many years. Clarence Thomas, the guy who actually sexually harassed Anita Hill. Meanwhile the bench of the Supreme Court is being increasingly stacked with justices who are ready willing and eager to do the right wing’s bidding with all that entails. Trump will probably get a shot at adding even more like-thinking justices in coming years. Plus, now Clarence Thomas has a woman-harming buddy on the Court with him, Bretty K. Both guys animated with how wronged they were that they were held to account for what they did to women, and ready for vengeance.
Not to mention to complete slow motion train wreck which is the disastrous type of judges being installed by the Trump administration throughout the federal court system. Many of which in addition to being bats**t and of low qualifications are also VERY YOUNG and ready to make a lifelong stand as judicial culture warriors.
And as a postscript, if you are not familiar with Clarence Thomas’s lovely wife Virginia, she is a complete extremist nut (refer to her social media) who most recently was at the WH to lecture Trump and co. about how women should not be in the military. Oh, and check out how a few years ago Ms. Thomas left a voicemail at Anita Hill’s law offices telling Anita that she was still waiting for an apology for what Anita did to her husband.
So–I get the criticism of Biden on Anita Hill. But this is what I think of when I read her name in this context.
“But what sticks in my craw is that while knocking how Biden handled the Clarence Thomas hearings in 1991, all I can think of is — Clarence Thomas is still on the Supreme Court”
Totally! Totally totally totally. On top of that, it’s been made prfectly clear that Clarence Thomas has never cared to be an SCJ. He rarely writes an opinion piece and by all accounts, he does the bare minimum at his job. He’s basically just a guaranteed vote for the GOP.
Which brings me to some other news that has been bubbling for quite some time: Thomas may be retiring soon–BEFORE Trump is out of office–just so Mitch can get another replacement judge in there while they still have the executive and senate under control. So depressing but I bet it will happen.
Anyway, everything you said is spot-on. I don’t like how Biden handled Anita Hill’s case but holy HELL, let’s not pretend that the worst outcome was that, and not the fact that Thomas got his seat. I just can’t help but wonder what would have happened if Biden had allowed the other three accusers to come forward and tell their stories. I’m not certain things would have turned out differenty, sadly, but I do wonder…
@Kitten
OMG I had not heard that rumor about Clarence Thomas considering retirement.
This weekend Jonathan Swan in AXIOS had an item about how Amy Barrett whatever (can’t remember her whole name) was the top choice for the next Supreme Court opening but Trump was slightly lukewarm due to her having attended law school at Notre Dame instead of Harvard or Yale. The item didn’t mention Clarence Thomas it was more in the vein of if they need to replace RBG (sending all good vibes to the universe for her well being)
YES they’ve been talking about Barrett for quite some time. The reason that they said she’s been passed over is because she doesn’t kiss Trump’s ass and he hates anyone who doesn’t flatter him. I can totally believe that he looked down on ND as well though LOL #allthebestpriorities
I hope a story about Chicago’s historic election is posted today. Not only did we elect our first openly gay African American woman as mayor, the other top two political posts in Chicago, city clerk and treasurer, are all held by women of color it’s an exciting time in Chicago!
I saw that on Twitter. Fantastic news and congrats 🙂
Chicago is one of my favorite cities and Chicagoans should be very proud today.
Congratulations to the people of Chicago!
That’s so awesome! Yay for Chicago showing the way.
I am just wondering did these women just remember they felt uncomfortable? I am curious, I do believe them.
Read their statements to yourself once again, please. They are recollecting how they felt in the moment. There is a difference between how they felt in the moment and how they feel they finally have permission to speak in public about how they felt, and how they felt because of what they did. The problem is not that they just “remembered” but that they feel they will be heard because they are not alone. The problem with that behavior against women is that women have been taught to (a) feel they are the only ones (b) feel they did something to cause it. As even the young woman cited above says, she at first chalked it up to being ‘just how men act.’ That’s infuriating, to know young women are still getting these messages.
Because there is power in numbers. A victim who breaks the silence opens the door through which so many others were afraid to enter because of the public censure that could follow.
Hmm, I hope it was worth telling these stories when Trump is re-elected. I truly do.
It’s a year before the primaries, there are a lot of other credible candidates raising money whose profiles will be dramatically elevated once the debates begin, and Biden is coasting on name recognition from the reflected glory of the Obama years. He’s never won even the nomination on his own and he’s certainly not the Trump slayer.
And these aren’t just any “stories.”
I guess I was just expressing my exhaustion of Dems attacking every candidate potential and shooting themselves in the foot.
He’s been touchy feely with men, too.
I know, right? Why can’t these women just keep their mouths shut about a man making them feel uncomfortable. Don’t they understand that the only chance we have at winning is by electing an old white guy?
Criticizing a candidate does not mean people won’t vote for them. Candidates should be criticized. They should be forced to work for my vote. I want Joe Biden to apologize and commit to doing better for women. I want Kamala Harris to address her history as a prosecutor. I want Cory Booker to explain his ties to the pharmaceutical companies and his support of charter schools. I want Kirsten Gilibrand to continue discussing her past with guns. Mayor Pete needs to explain why he feels he’s the most qualified in spite of his lack of experience. They are all imperfect, and that’s okay. I don’t need perfection. I need someone who is willing to acknowledge concerns and talk about how they’re going to do better moving forward (or commit to their past stances even if I disagree with them).
At the end of the day, if Biden is the Democrat that’s been chosen, then fine. We should absolutely vote for him because he is better than Trump. I just think when the field is this full, we have the opportunity to select the best candidate, not simply the one who looks the most like the rest of the presidents. I am sick and tired of being told that oppressed people need to wait to get their concerns addressed because TRUMP. The Democratic party needs to do better, and this primary is their opportunity to do so.
He could’ve squelched a lot of this by being comprehensively exhaustively explicitly specifically sorry again and again without any limits, plus lots of evidence he’s stopped. But he didn’t go far enough immediately and now for me it’s too late. I don’t dislike him (yet), but go away.
Same. I get that he’s likely not horrible, but it demonstrates privilege and a reliance on certain (wrong) behavior as charming. I want a candidate who knows how to apologize (not never make a mistake), can give a sincere apology (not “I’m sorry you feel that way”), continue to grow and demonstrate that through policies (not apply the same ol’ same ol’), raise up others along the way (not threatened by others success) and various other traits that Joe just doesn’t have for me. He’s not my candidate, but he can go away and protect his legacy still.
Touching the thigh … that’s the crossover point, right?
Totally unrelatedto Joe Biden, but at a Teamsters rally I met Jimmy Hoffa Jr and when we posed for a photo he did this same kind of crap to me. I was maybe 15 that summer. And it IS creepy and it was obvious it was not just being “nice”. My dad’s closest friend also has this problem. A lot of men do and I have no issues with it being called out as inappropriate, men should know better, and they do know better, but because they don’t actually touch a private area there’s wiggle room for a denial.
I am grateful to the few of you who understand that his behavior is unacceptable and harmful. This guy is simply not a good person. He is a political televangelist: Dashing frat boy who talks a big game about women, yet has a history of failing them, of fondling them, and of being enabled by people who don’t unserstand that what made Harvey Weinstein so hideous was the magnitude of what happened. Joe Biden has been casually, publicly harassing and inappropriately touching women and girls for 7 decades. Don’t forget, Weinstein also thought he wasn’t doing anything wrong. He also thought the women were fine with it, and so did the entire industry.
Enough.
I know I’m going to catch hell for this, but I’m going to say it anyway.
I read Celebitchy every day, though I have never before commented.
I am a Democrat and, right now, the candidate who has me most excited and inspired is Pete Buttigieg.
I also live in the South.
Pete Buttigieg will not win this election. There are too many Bible-thumping homophobes who truly believe people like him are agents of the devil sent to destroy America. I’m not being hyperbolic. They truly believe that. In America. In 2019.
AOC has stirred up a vitriol I find astounding, and with it, drawn focus to the Democratic Socialist platform. The word “socialist” is no longer being dismissed or looked upon with skepticism; people are starting to fear a “socialist takeover.” Honestly, Bernie is not going to win this election, either. He might have won in 2016, but things have changed since then. Trump and Fox News have bred all sorts of new hysteria among his fan base. They truly believe the Democrats are working to end capitalism and, by extension, America. I’m serious.
Reading articles like this and the comments attached make me realize how easy it will be for Trump to get re-elected unless we Democrats stop eating our own. Joe Biden isn’t my candidate of choice right now, but I truly believe he is one of a very few who has any chance of beating Trump. He appeals to blue-collar workers. He’s plain-spoken and approachable. He’s willing to work across the aisle. THOSE are the sorts of things that attract people who otherwise might support Trump. And what are we doing? Trying to cancel him. Should he be touchy with women? No. Should that negate all the legislative achievements he has garnered over the years? NO! Whether or not he is the personal favorite you want to see on the ballot, why are we trying to destroy the chances of one of the few people who could actually BEAT TRUMP, when we all agree that BEATING TRUMP is absolutely imperative?
No one is perfect. No one is close to perfect. But right now we’ve got a sexual assaulter-in-chief, and literally NO ONE in his party is bothered by it. It’s disgusting. But keep that in mind when you’re trying to “cancel” a viable candidate who has unfortunately made some women uncomfortable. Which would you prefer in office?
Because, I’m telling you, no far-left candidate is going to win this. Not in 2020. Not against Trump. He’s stirred up way too much fear.
I have an honest question. When you say no far-left candidate is going to win, do you see any other Democrat contenders that you would not call far-left, besides Biden?
Kamala Harris is perceived as one of the most liberal members of the Senate, which appeals to Democrats, but her record as attorney general in California is far more centrist and pro-law enforcement. Even now, she’s definitely not as far left as Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. Those things could definitely work in her favor.
Cory Booker interests me because of his openness about his religious beliefs. I think that could possibly appeal to some wavering Republican Christians in the South. I know a lot of people who vote solely based on a candidate’s faith.
@Wren
thanks for your response.
I wonder though, like you said that Pete B. might not have a chance with what you call wavering Republican Christians of the South due to being gay, I wonder if the same people would also find their own twisted reasons to oppose Kamala Harris (for being a woman and black) and Cory Booker (for being black).
Do you think Amy Klobuchar would hold any appeal for the demographic you mention – what is your perspective living in the South? I am in Minnesota and one of her talking points is always how she does so well statewide in senate elections. Including in more “red” parts of our state. She always sells herself as moderate and someone who can do bipartisan work.
You will Not catch hell from me. I believe Mayor Pete is a rising star ⭐️ in the party but I don’t believe Mayor Pete could be elected in this country, at this time, because he’s gay. The Bible thumping hypocrites would tear him to shreds. The Con man would do the same. I do believe if we take back the presidency he could get a cabinet position. I believe he should run for senator.
I read Mayor Bloomberg is thinking about running if joe drops out. Bloomberg is old but not older than joe, I believe. For the people who wants joe, maybe they would vote for him, and he doesn’t have anymore baggage than 45. Also, he has more money than The Con man, so he would give him a real challenge. I really wants to see how they do in the debates, can’t wait.
Totally agree.
I’m so sick of this hand wringing narrative that we’re doing irreparable damage and handing the election to Trump because we might be alienating conservative, centrist, Trump voters who MIGHT vote for someone like Biden. What about the actual, Democratic base? How come no one is ever worried or upset about alienating them? How come no one wants to fire up the base by nominating a progressive candidate that will truly excite Democrats? Why must we instead pander to the handful of wishy-washy Republicans who MIGHT switch sides (but probably won’t if they haven’t denounced Trump already)? We have a huge base of Democrats who reliably vote Democrat WHEN THEY VOTE. These are the people we need to think about. We need them excited about voting. What’s the use of nominating an old, white, religious, “personally pro-life but politically pro-choice, kind of, at least right now” candidate who likes having dinner with segregationists and has been making women feel uncomfortably creeped on for decades? We’re willing to write off all the women who have been touched inappropriately , POC, feminists and pro-choicers, and anti-racist allies (which is like, most of our base!!) just so we can MAYBE gain the votes of these mythical centrist Trump voting Republicans who apparently think Trump is awful but not really awful enough to justify them voting for a woman, a POC, or a gay man if that’s who our nominee is? Stop pandering to these conservative, religious, quietly racist, quietly misogynist, quietly xenophobic, white “swing voters” (who happen to “swing” Repulican about 95% of the time). Politics and Presidents are not just for the “economically anxious” white people of America. They do not need to be centered in every conversation about politics. Their opinions matter so much less than that of our wide and diverse Democratic base. I’m flabbergasted that people are constantly worried about how to get Republicans to vote Democrat rather than how to get Democrats to vote Democrat.
Yes!!! YES!!!!!!!
*wild applause*
There are SO. MANY. PEOPLE. out there that feel the same as you. Yet a faction of the Dem party seem determined to ignore. Dems need to start rewarding their reliable base voters instead of allowing themselves to be baited by the moderates/centrists.
Honestly? For me, the goal of this election is getting Trump out of office. That may or may not coincide with getting the person who is the best choice elected.
No, Biden isn’t the only person who can do that. But he is (was) polling strongly. That and the fact that he has some crossover appeal are the reasons I think we need not be so quick to decide that his career should be over.
Yes, it was great to see the enthusiasm during the mid-terms. But AOC won a solidly democratic house seat in a solidly democratic district. Beto had a HUGE, record-breaking grassroots movement behind him and DIDN’T win. Enthusiasm is no guarantee of anything. And people feel differently when it comes to electing a president than they do when it comes to electing a representative. There have been women in Congress since 1917, and yet we have never had a woman in the White House. I hope that changes soon.
Your comment about those voters whose “opinions matter so much less” is the attitude that got Trump elected. They saw in him a candidate who did not feel they should be ignored. However you feel about their political beliefs, there are still a LOT of those people in America. Enough to wreak havoc in blue collar, Southern, and rust belt states. Whoever goes against Trump is going to have to have some sort of appeal for them. It’s not the popular vote that wins elections in this country, unfortunately.
Because the base doesn’t win elections for either parties. If it did, Obama wouldn’t have had to carry Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin & appeal to blue collar workers that weren’t normally in the base. He also had high turnouts of the base. 2016 also saw record lows for both parties. What I’m seeing here is people attacking people they don’t like & the primaries haven’t even begun. I pray Trump doesn’t get re-elected.
@ Wren-AOC beat a TEN TERM incumbent and incredibly-popular politician that she was never expected to beat which perfectly illustrates my point: the Dem base has changed. People are TIRED of the same ol’ white, male, corporate candidates. BTW, what does Joe Crowley do now? Surprise! He’s a corporate lobbyist.
“There have been women in Congress since 1917, and yet we have never had a woman in the White House. I hope that changes soon.”
Do you? Because it will never change with this self-defeating attitude of a “woman can never win.” Seriously.
HRC won the popular vote and was the more popular candidate by far. It’s because of our highly-flawed electoral system (among other factors) that she lost. And as I said the other day, keep voting for moderate candidates and that will never change. Keep voting for Biden-types and you will keep the filibuster and all the progressive changes that we want to have happen WON’T.
This is my problem with people who only care about beating Trump: your whole outlook is so short-sighted. If Biden gets elected and is merely an extension of Obama’s administration we WILL end up with another Trump in 2024. It will be the same cycle all over again because people will be disappointed in the Democratic party for recycling another establishment candidate. All that excitement and hope for change will have turned to cynicism for the Democratic party–the same cynicism we saw in 2016.
Also, Beto’s campaign was a phenomenon precisely because it WAS in Texas. Cruz’s people literally LAUGHED at Beto in the beginning (I know because my BF’s fiancée campaigned for him) and ended up freaking out because of how close he got. Sure, he lost, but what your comments ignore is that he got as far as he did by galvanizing people who were sick of Trump and working off of grassroots momentum and excitement. He INSPIRED people.
“Your comment about those voters whose ‘opinions matter so much less’ is the attitude that got Trump elected.”
NOPE. Don’t even try that “poor working white class narrative” BS with me, full-stop.
You know, in 2016 when every journo and pundit alike was trying to see if that shit would stick to the wall, people like myself were screaming that this was all a false narrative and that the catalyst was good old fashioned racism. It is now almost three years into Trump’s presidency. If you don’t see why these people voted for a racist, misogynistic, CRUEL bastard with ZERO political qualifications over a politically-qualified, polished, capable candidate like HRC then I don’t know what to tell you. We were NEVER going to get their votes which is why Trump’s base hasn’t left his side despite every horrific thing he’s done.
And if you think the mythical, aggrieved white working class are going to vote for Biden, you are dead-wrong. They’ll dig in their heels and vote for Trump all over again.
@Purplehaze-And you will see record low turnout again if Biden is the nom. This isn’t about being mean or whatever to candidates we don’t like–it’s about being SMART and strategic. It’s about LISTENING to left-leaning voters who are first-time voters or who sat out the last election.
Biden isn’t the candidate that can save us and for the life of me, I don’t understand why y’all believe he is.
I don’t understand why you think a progressive can beat Trump. Hillary didn’t fall for his shenanigans & he beat her in 2016. He’s baiting the 2020 crowd of candidates & so far very few know how to effectively to respond to him. Biden is handsy with everyone: men, women & children. That’s a fact. All of the women have stated it wasn’t sexual, none of them worked for him & so this leaves this it in a gray area of where it’s uncomfortable. It’s not criminal or harassment like the predator in Chief that occupies the White House. While inappropriate, that’s all it is. I mean he hasn’t announced yet. Personally, there’s quite a few people that shouldn’t have announced but they did. I’m going to wait until the primaries & the debates. This is why I think Trump will get re-elected…the comments on here. We’re ready to tear every candidate apart for any misstep they make. Republicans don’t do this.
It’s a double standard. Trump won with a very narrow base, Dems can too. But they start listening to Republicans and pundits on TV who say, they NEED votes outside the base. They NEED to appeal to Republican voters!
Just like when Obama was in office, Daily diatribes from the GOP and the media for him to be the president “of all” the people. Trump specifically sets out policies to benefit his supports. Where is the media to ask him why he isn’t reaching out to the Americans who didn’t vote for him. I’ll wait……
I hear your concerns, I do. We’re all terrified of a second term of Trump.
But I have to say it again: “Far Left” isn’t a thing. The left is a HUGE tent and not every candidate will be as equally progressive as the next but please, kindly stop using that term. It insinuates that 2020 candidates are the Leftist version of the Far-Right when that’s not the case. FFS Warren is a goddamn capitalist and former Republican. There is NO equivalent on the Left of the RW extremism that the GOP has embraced–NONE. Those people have no ideology beyond “burn it down” and the only issues they feel truly passionate about are tax cuts for the rich and controlling women’s bodies.
Also, Sanders is pretty much neck-in-neck with Biden in the polls, if you believe the polls. Sanders will likely win NH, IA, and maybe Texas in the primary. You’re making a mistake by assuming he can’t win. We don’t know that this early.
Additionally, there is literally NOTHING that tells us that Biden is a guaranteed win–NOTHING. In fact, the most recent midterm elections tells us VERY CLEARLY that people are sick of the same ol’ same ol. Why do you think all the current candidates are embracing M4A, the GND, abolishing the EC and other positions that would be considered too progressive even 3 years ago? Because they’re POPULAR. We HAVE to stop analyzing candidates’ platforms like it’s still 2012. The country is FOREVER changed and the US will NEVER return to the Obama/Biden days. We need someone to combat Trumpism, not another uninspiring candidate who will continue in the same vain as Obama’s administration.
ALL the grassroots activism you saw during the midterms was generated by candidates like AOC proving that they can do what seemed to be impossible. Hell, even just the diversity of the House should be a eye-opener in terms of what people on the left want right now.
And I’m telling you that Biden will NOT win with fancy black tie fundraisers and highly-scripted visits to IA and NH. He doesn’t have Obama to lean on this time around and he has a ton of competition with the other candidates. If he has a chance in hell he needs to do things completely differently than he has in the past.
I know everyone will keep repeating what you say here and plenty will continue to believe it but Clinton wasn’t the way (as much as I love her) and Biden is NOT the way. People are literally CRAVING change right now.
@Wren, I agree with you. I think Biden can actually help educate other men on this issue, by apologizing, continuing a thoughtful dialogue and changing his behavior. Aren’t we looking for change that comes from role models at the top? People in public life, like Biden? I don’t know who will end up being the Democratic primary winner. I’ll support whoever it is.
Would you feel the same if it were a female candidate getting handsy? I ask because Biden reminds me of a woman I worked with who absolutely could not keep her hands to herself. Did not matter if it was a man or woman, there would be shoulder rubs or running her hand down someone’s back or putting her hands on your arm while speaking to you or putting her arm around your shoulders. It was uncomfortable to me. I thought maybe it was overreacting on my part until another female coworker told me it also made her very uncomfortable when the woman got touchy with her. Is it different when it is a man versus a woman? I don’t think so because either way, it is a total invasion of your personal space.
It just seemed to me that a lot of comments were talking about how men always did this, but women can be guilty of the same behavior. I don’t think it is always sexual, but if it makes someone uncomfortable it is not okay. I just don’t get why some people feel the need to constantly lay their hands on someone else. I understand the desire for human touch, but some people take it to the extreme.
I don’t think Joe is some kind of sexual deviant but he definitely shouldn’t be so touchy feely with women and children. There’s a time and place for this type of affection and the workplace is not It. It’s not a matter of reeling it in, it’s about respect and professionalism. I hope he genuinely listens to the people he’s offended and learns from it. Unfortunately, I don’t think his career will come back from this.
As a woman, I’m tired of being touched and hugged and petted and consoled by other people without asking for it. Men don’t get to make that decision for me.
Honestly I don’t care about any of this with Biden because I don’t want him to get the nomination, or even run for that matter. I do think Biden can win but so can some of the other candidates (Bernie, Elizabeth Warren). We’ve known Biden is like this for a long time and it’s going to be an even more miserable run up to the election if Biden is the nom because he has years and years and years of political history to dissect that I simply don’t want to hear about.
Right now Pete Buttigieg is my pick and I hope he goes far with his campaign so that he makes it to the primary debates and can be considered a VP pick. I would vote for him as president based on his platform but his age and sadly, the fact that he is gay, will likely mean he isn’t a viable presidential candidate, yet.
PS: Can we get more Mayor Pete coverage, please?!
I always knew this would be a problem with Biden. Whoever the R candidate is going to be, they will dig up old footage of Biden and his handsy/hugging. Then the Anita Hill thing — they will play it all to the hilt. They don’t care about hypocrisy in the least, so. . .
Sometimes actions are obviously wrong and downright sick, & some actions are accepted or even liked by some but hated by others, but made with no ill intents, & I think Biden’s touchy personality is one of those cases. I think offenses such as Biden’s, as long as he acknowledges that his actions must change from here on, are easily forgiven and should not disqualify him.