John Legend recently chatted with the Times of London to promote his new tour, which is a “20th anniversary tour” of his album Get Lifted. Reading this Times piece, I got a little bit mad at him – John comes across as such a decent, thoughtful, politically savvy man. I just can’t believe he ended up Chrissy Teigen and all of her childish drama. But it’s been years and it is what it is. While he talks about Chrissy a bit, the most interesting parts of this piece is John reflecting back on Get Lifted and the music scene back then, and he ended up speaking extensively on his ex-friend and ex-colleague Kanye West. Some highlights:

Meeting Kanye West in the early ‘00s: “Back then Kanye was very passionate, very gifted, and he had big dreams not only for himself but also for all the people around him,” he says of his former friend, who first signed him to his label. West has since appeared to have sunken into a wormhole of hate, from selling swastika T-shirts on his website to wearing a black Ku Klux Klan hood to an interview. “He had so much optimism, so much creativity. It does feel sad, sometimes shocking, to see where he is now.”

How Kanye helped his career: “Kanye blew up after producing Jay-Z’s album The Blueprint in 2001. Then he experienced a buzz as a solo artist and the whole time I was travelling with him, doing shows with him, getting exposure not only as his singer and keyboard player but also as an artist myself. I had been turned down by labels everywhere. Then The College Dropout sold 400,000 copies in its first week, everyone wanted to know what was happening in our camp, and all those people who turned me down suddenly decided that my music sounded a lot better than it did the first time round.”

Back then, John had no idea that Kanye would turn into this: “I didn’t see a hint of what we’re seeing now, his obsessions with antisemitism, anti-blackness, and it is sad to see his devolution. I don’t think we’re qualified to psychoanalyse him, but after his mother passed in 2007 there was definitely a difference. His descent started then and seems to have accelerated recently.”

On Trump’s America: “It’s extremely dangerous in America right now. If the government can kidnap you, take you to a foreign prison, and claim they have no way of getting you back, the entire rule of law is meaningless. If you can just be abducted by the government without any evidence or proof, then the whole system is done and we’re living in a system based on the whims of a mad dictator. That’s what we’re sitting on the precipice of right now. We’re a nation of entrepreneurs. Who is going to want to start a business here, or come to university from another country, if they don’t have the protection of the rule of law?”

He will continue to support Democrats & hopes Dems win big in the midterms: “The Supreme Court and executive branch are currently under Republican control and we’re seeing what that produces. We can make a convincing case that it isn’t what we want for the country. We’ll fight for Democratic control of the House and Senate, and put people in place who are pro justice, education, free speech and protecting people’s rights from a federal government that would like to become autocrats.” Who does he see as the next leader? “I don’t know yet, but generally with the Democrats they succeed with someone who isn’t part of the Washington establishment, like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. I think that’s what it will take — an outsider — to get us in.”

[From The Times]

I agree that the next big Democrat is not going to come from the Senate or any Beltway power system, but some governor’s mansion. You know who’s saying all of the right things right now? Illinois’s Gov. JB Pritzker. I’m keeping my eye on him! As for what Legend says about Kanye… what’s happened with Ye is so sad, especially for the people who have known him the longest, like Legend, Jay-Z, all of the people who were there for his come-up. I understand why that sadness is lost in the larger conversations of Kanye these days, because so much of what he says and represents is despicable. But for Legend, he lost a friend and he’s lost someone who believed in him really early on.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.