It sometimes feels like Lucy Liu is still vastly underrated. When she was coming up, there really weren’t many Asian-American women in movies or television shows. She’s managed to break all kinds of barriers throughout her career, as an actress, producer and director. She was also name-checked in an Outkast song, which is still one of the biggest “she’s made it” cultural moments. She’s 56 years old and still working constantly. She’s currently promoting Steven Soderbergh’s Presence, which is sort of a ghost story told through the perspective of the ghost. She recently chatted with the Guardian about Presence, her career, Asian representation, New York and the second Trump administration. Some highlights:

She’s never bored: “Sometimes I wouldn’t mind it. But it feels nonstop. I never get bored because I don’t have time.” If there wasn’t so much to do, she says: “I’m sure I could learn a language, you know, learn how to ride a unicycle. I mean, come on, the list is endless. So it never feels, like ‘What’s left?’ It’s ‘Where do we start?’”

Her childhood dreams of being an actress: “Television was really a form of escape and I think I wanted to just get out of wherever I was.” She would watch sitcoms such as The Brady Bunch, “those things that seemed so shiny, and how wonderful would it be to be so shiny?” She didn’t feel shiny? She laughs. “I was not shiny. I think coming from a place where you didn’t really fit in, culturally, visually, it was difficult to imagine being away from that. Or shiny.”

Liu didn’t see Asian Americans on screen. “I internalised probably a lot more than I realised. Almost to the point where you accept: ‘Oh, this is what it is.’ Nobody’s saying: ‘You can do that.’” But something inside her told her she could do it, she says. “And as soon as I could, I did, and against all odds at that time.”

Coming up in the dangerous ‘90s: “[I] was aware that some situations were not safe, and not to get involved in that. I think having that sense of self saved me from a lot of probably bad situations of either being taken advantage of, or what people would think is quid pro quo.” When you’re younger, she says, it is particularly difficult to tell the difference between “‘Oh, this person really likes me,’ and ‘This is not good. This is not what you think it is. This is not a relationship.’ Everyone has an instinct, and I don’t know that everyone listens to it, but that’s one thing that I’ve always been able to channel and connect with.”

Why she spoke out about Bill Murray: “I really didn’t think about it. I would have done that in any situation. I think when I sense something is not right, I am going to protect myself. It’s an innate thing to do if you feel there’s injustice, and I always feel that way.”

She could never be the person who keeps quiet & plays the game. “If I was, it would have been a much easier road. But because I’ve never been that person, we had to find a way. I think there has never been an easy road, for me and for us – and I say ‘us’, because I really think it’s a group effort.” The “us” she refers to are all the Asian American actors who came before her. “I would never take credit. My career has not been paved by myself.”

A second Trump presidency: “It’s complicated, and I’m quite miffed by the whole thing. That’s a very light word, by the way. I think there’s going to be generational damage, and I think in the world as a whole, there’s a lot of division and fear, and I think fear fuels extreme choices.” There is, she believes, “a backwardness to what’s happening; it’s going to only get worse, I believe, if we don’t really educate and understand one another.”

[From The Guardian]

“I think there’s going to be generational damage” – yes. She’s absolutely right, there will be generational damage. Frankly, there already is generational damage. It’s awful and, as she says, it’s only going to get worse. As for not playing the game… something I think about a lot is that “playing the game” is rarely an option for Asian women or women of color. The way so many powerful structures are set up, women of color often have to “break the rules” to achieve anything.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.