I’m not going to make fun of Gwyneth Paltrow in this post! Sorry, Goop-Love-To-Haters. This is one of the rare occasions where Gwyneth’s weekly GOOP newsletter is really interesting. In this week’s very special GOOP, Gwyneth and her dear BFF, her favorite fisherman, Jesus “H.” Christ tackle homosexuality (that was wrong, I apologize). Gwyneth – who is currently Jewish by blood on her dad’s side, and by choice because of Kabbalah – decided to focus this week’s GOOP on the various religious interpretations of Biblical teachings on homosexuality. It’s pretty good. Here’s Gwyneth’s forward, and you can read the full GOOP-letter here.
A few months ago, in the heat of the tragic teen suicides that came about from intolerance of homosexuality, I saw a man on television who was apologizing for wishing death on gays from his facebook page. This member of an Arkansas school board was contrite for the violence in his words, but maintained that his values pertaining to homosexuality would remain, as he felt homosexuality was condemned in the bible. This concept, while foreign to me, is interesting, as it used to justify so much judgement and separation in our society. When my daughter came home from school one day saying that a classmate had two mommies, my response was, “Two mommies? How lucky is she?!” What does it actually say in the bible that will cause some people to be upset by my line of thinking?
Happy pride.
Love,
gp
[From GOOP]
After that, Gwyneth and Jesus sit back and eat some grilled chicken, fresh from her must-have outdoor wood-burning oven, and Goop & JC let the scholars take over. Cynthia Bourgeault (Episcopal priest, writer and retreat leader), Michael Berg (a Kabbalah scholar and author), and Father Vincent C. Schwahn (an ordained priest in the Episcopal Church) all take on the philosophical, moral and religious issue of God and Gays, and then Gwyneth makes a point about “including a more conservative voice” and instead of simply contacting one of the many anti-gay religious people, she just excerpts from Dr. John Stott’s book, Issues Facing Christians Today. I’m telling you, this GOOP was a good read. I like the way Gwyneth handled it.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
ITA. Some Goops are a good read. I like most of them, the only crappy ones IMO are the clothing and destination ones.
Good for Goopy she’s earned some good will with this post 🙂
I’m loving her response to Apple about 2 mommies.
The bible refers to homosexuality as an abomination and then there is that situation of Sodom and Gomorrah where God had enough but Lot’s wife wanted one more peek of an over the shoulder glance for which she was turned into a pillar of salt..as opposed to the salt of the earth.
My point is that the word “abomination” is a very significant word and yet when Moses was given the top ten “Thou Shalt Nots”, homosexuality did not make the cut. It’s way behind adultery, lying stealing, killing and the like.
Keep in mind that there are very “good” homosexual Christians in this world, so don’t pound all Christians. As long as Christians put the “abomination” of homosexuality into the entire context of “good” Christianity, everyone will be just fine.
The verses in the Old and New Testament that deal with this topic are very explicit and direct. It is up to the reader to either accept or reject the verses as being from God. But the meaning of the verses is quite clear.
When I clicked on this link, I thought “You’ll be sorry” (sung in that sing-song voice). But, no further comment until I click on the link and read the full thing. (A first for me – I avoid the Goop when I’m able, but here goes!)
The Old Testament indeed does say homosexuality is an abomination… as is eating lobsters and wearing clothes of mixed fabrics. I can’t figure out why it’s now ok for some abominations to be dismissed or explained away, but the abomination of homosexuality still stands. I guess for some people some abominations are worse than others. I just don’t know who it is that gets to decide which ones are. And before anybody starts in with verses in the NT, I am only speaking of the OT verses that many Christians like to spew off to justify why they say homosexuality is wrong.
Whatever Christians want to believe is their business, just don’t push it on me or make policies and laws that apply to EVERYONE (including non-Christians) based on a religious belief.
It doesn’t matter to me what the Bible says about homosexuality because I’m not a Christian. Therefore, if I love a woman it is not an abomination in my eyes. It’s just love.
It was an interesting read-I disagree with all of them about various things but Goopy managed to come up with a post that was both relevant and balanced.
Truly amazing.
OK, I read it. I’m standing by my original position: “Judge not lest ye be judged” and “Love thy neighbour as thyself.”
When it comes to homosexuality, that is. I’m totally with @ Rita (well said, BTW) on her point about the Ten Commandments.
@ Jackie – We call that the “Christian a la carte” mentality. You know, just pick the ones to which you subscribe and let the others stay at the buffet or pretend they don’t exist. 😉
She should read a book called What the Bible Actually Says About Homosexuality. If, that is, she’s not actually so ignorant as to not have heard the many biblical passages used against homophobia. The book explains that there are just as many, if not more, ways of interpreting the Old and New Testaments to support relationships of any kind. It’s all very interesting, as the Bible can really be twisted to mean anything you want it to mean. It’s also archaic, but that’s another point altogether…
im not religius, nor have i studied the bible but im pretty sure theres something like this in there somewhere
“if you commit a sin you will be punished, however if you commit a sin out of love you will be forgiven”
So love good, lust bad.
Combine that with “you shall not judge”
and you got my life philsophophy
Wow, Goop done good with this one!
More stuff like that, and less macrobiotic cleanses with Jay Z while wearing thousand dollar t-shirts.
Thank you @Jackie.
I just can’t stand this woman!
@Jackie
Over the millennia some things have been lost in translation. One of those things was about lobster. It’s an abomination to eat it without butter.
Another mistranslation haunts the Catholic church to this day. The correct translation should have been celebrate….not celibate. Quite a difference.
(Hope my sense of humor doesn’t detract from the seriousness of this thread)
I never thought I’d see the day when I thought I liked Gwyneth.
Cosign with Rita all the way.
I’m a total fruit fly, and, despite my very southern redneck upbringing, I really don’t see why some people hate others based on their gender, race, religon, or sexual preference.
After just watching a segment on CNN about a camp where boys were sent to cure them of “acting like sissies”, I’m not feeling at all tolerant of those who are intolerant of gays. At least if you hate gays, keep your thoughts to yourself and don’t try to change them, please.
jc126 – I saw that! Anderson Cooper was doing a segment on it last night. It was so sad. That one kid committed suicide.
@Rita LMAO!!!!
What consenting adults do is none of my business. That’s always my bottom lime with this stuff.
Side note, my gay FIL sings louder in church than anyone, cracks me up each Sunday when he belts those songs out. If any of our congregation voiced an opposition to the other gay folks in our church taking the Eucharist, I’m pretty sure my pastor would commit the deadly sin of Wrath.
I figured she took the good stand on it, considering the article refers to her as Gwyneth Paltrow, and not Goopy or her highness and didn’t say anything about peasants. lol Well, who knew that she could be fair-minded on something. In Leviticus where it apparently ‘condemns’ homosexuals to death, it also says children who are disobedient should be stoned to death. If that was put into practice, I don’t think there would be anyone left on this earth! The bible was written by 40 men, none who truly knew Jesus. It should not be taken literally.
I may go read Goop for the first time ever. It sounds like and interesting post that she handled well.
Rita, your humor is always funny and always welcome…at least *I* think so…
and LOVE the comment about the ten commandments. funny how some of the most outspoken against homosexuality are liars, philanderers, thieves and killers. What would Jesus do, indeed…
Jackie, good post. I call that “cafeteria christianity” but the “a la carte” works too!
and Coffee Talk, agree completely. believe what you want (as long as you’re not hurting others or infringing in their rights) but keep your religion out of any laws that apply to both Christians and non.
For God’s sake there is no E in judgment!…I’m just sayin’
What a theologian.
Let’s see if I got this right. She is pretentious on her raising of kids, name dropping, and about life in general, but now that she says something about the evils of religious bigotry, something even religious folks reject, she is all good.
Ok, got it.
Well, Gwyneth is a noted Talmudic scholar in her spare time.
love the thoughtful and tolerant comments on here!
Actually, fannomore, there is, in the British English. Judgement is actually the correct spelling. Unfortunately, Americans have butchered the English language to the extent that people no longer recogniSe the true English.
Quite possibly this is the first time she’s opened her mouth and not gotten on my last nerve.
“Gwyneth and Jesus sit back and eat some grilled chicken, fresh from her must-have outdoor wood-burning oven, and Goop & JC let the scholars take over.”
But not before she asks who dresses him and where does he summer.
The funny thing about the bible is it was written by men and is supposedly the word of god. However, there is no original copy and many parts of it were changed, omitted and added based on the leaders of the time and what they wanted. It is honestly naive to think the bible is the word of god. God is probably thinking, “I didn’t say being gay is wrong! Some random guy did. I made gays and I love them.”
totally agree with you Kaiser. this Goop’s weekly issue was awesome, specially because I can picture that a good part of its subscribers may not be pro-equality, but more conservative
@ iloverabbits that’s pretty much my feelings in a nutshell. additionally, there are things in the bible such as “dont wear blended fabrics” and “eating shellfish is detestable” but most people choose to ignore those mandates as well.
June is my favourite month because it’s Toronto’s gay pride!
I dress up and always walk alongside my gay bff’s. My (very hetro) ex-boyfriend will be on this years main float. I party at the Barn and get covered in glitter.
Truth be told: I have never heard Gwyneth pander to the gays so I find this letter to be heartfelt. I cannot hate on someone who supports the marginalized.
Glitter and rainbow stickers for everyone!
(I was not raised religious, I don’t care to dispute the bible, I just believe in one love for all.)
It’s so easy to pick and choose what you want from the Jesus book. I personally love the passage that says I can own slaves from a neighboring country. So send me a Canadian Roma! 😉
It’s not just the Bible – what about the Muslim book the Koran. Recently in our city there was a deabte about teaching in the schools around this issue. Guess who showed up at the meeting about not allowing this to be taught in a public school? You guessed it. It was not Bible thumping individuals but muslims. I believe in some countires in the middle east this is punishable by death. At least we are beeter here in the US. Christians are not the only ones who have issues around this – it is a shame that Gwen brings out one religion and talks about them. Actually Christians are way ahead of this then some other religions.
This is the part of her article I take issue with, “When my daughter came home from school one day saying that a classmate had two mommies, my response was, “Two mommies? How lucky is she?!”
Luckier than having 2 loving parents at home that are of different genders? Because a woman is naturally a better parent than a man? By making the comment “How lucky is she” it draws attention to the fact that the lifestyle is “different”. The other day my daughter and I saw 2 women with 8 kids in tow. My daughter (7) said, “Wow, that’s a lot of kids.” And I said “Well, I don’t think they’re all one family honey, they’re probably friends with 4 kids each or something.” She said, “Well, lots of families have two mommies.” To which I said, “You’re right, and if that’s the case, this family is going to need two vans.” It really pointed out to me that deep down, on some level I still view that choice as outside of the norm, and I think it’s important to challenge our assumptions and learn. We need to treat same sex families like they’re common-place, not “lucky”.
@Sue: Unfortunately your view is the norm and not the exception. How many Muslims do you know? Do you care to know any?
What is conveniently overlooked is Orthodox Judaism. Goop didn’t solicit any Orthodox rabbi’s thoughts on the matter because she knows damned well they wouldn’t deign to even discuss anything, never mind scripture, with a woman.
Where’s a Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox priest for that matter? Episcopalians are what the Anglican Church/Church of England is called everywhere else. That Church in it’s moderate expression is very liberal and inclusive up to and including the ordination of women and will perform gay marriages. The High Anglican on the other hand is not, ritually and belief-wise it’s essentially the same as Catholicism, though their priests can marry. There’s plenty of fundamentalist dogma to go around that is just as rigid and sometimes downright hateful (Northern Ireland anybody?).
In the extreme expressions of these religions homosexuals aren’t the only motes smiting the eye of God. Nor are they the actually considered the greater threat: Women are. Homosexual men can closet and still receive an education and study scripture, and if they choose they can be ordained unlike women.
If we’re talking gay rights, there’s a way to go still for the lesbians and transfolk – within the LGBTQ community itself.
(Oh God Bill, where are you going with this…)
separation of church and state is such an illusion in the US. it sucks.
@ Bill Hicks is God – are you saying that Muslims believe in homosexually? I have worked with Muslims and they are great people. However, that does not mean that they endorse homosexually. Again you attacked Christians and if you are going to attack religions that believe this way attack all of them. Muslim included. There are many religions in the US Muslims included that are against it. Don’t just blame the christians. What annoys me is that people find it so acceptable to bash Christians and the US while with the same breath encouage other religions that hold the same standards.
And to Kazoo – perhaps you should look at some other countries if you think that the seperation of church and state is an illusion in the US. So far the States does this the best of any place in the world. Try some middle east countries that don’t even know the meaning of the word.
@Sue (36) To be completely honest, 2 or 3 years ago a Catholic bishop – who is a sort of an observer to the UN – claimed to be against the EU declaration which condemn any type of discrimination based on sexual orientation. In few words it’s like he doesn’t condemn death penalty in case of charges for homosexual behaviour.
Ah, the enlightened Vatican’s minds!
@kazoo: Yes and yes. Chin up.
@ Sue: The US is best at separation of church and state? You need to get out more. I’ve lived in France and the UK and both those countries’ ability to keep religion a private matter separate from politics is leaps and bounds better than ours. I hope that changes someday. Also, to echo Bill Hicks, why would Gwyneth, or anyone from our culture for that matter, discuss Islam and Homosexuality? It doesn’t affect us. That’s simply not an issue in the our culture that is predominantly Judeo-Christian. Do you think muslims sit around discussing Christian viewpoints’ effect on their lifestyles? Also, and pardon me for being obvious, one can disagree with the Christian stance on homosexuality and the Islamic at the same time. Both are cruel and primitive.
@Laughternrain
Whoa- we can’t stone disobedient children anymore? Damn. I guess I’ll just force feed them lobster with NO butter. 🙂
@Sue: *sigh* Yes, Muslims endorse homosexuality, everyone knows one isn’t a good Muslim unless they do because Mosques are really gay bath houses. *edit* um. It occurred to me that some would read that as ‘gospel.’ The same people who don’t know Colbert is a satirist.
If you’re going to put words in my mouth, please make sure they’re smart ones, you know, like comparative religion debate and I’ve read a book or two kinda smart.
Did I miss the Rube Pride parade? Oh, I must have because I wouldn’t have been there. “Homosexually.” Because I’m “beeter” than that.
Start questioning the meaning of words when you know how to spell them, m’kay?
p.s. Did you actually read what I wrote or did the stained glass, xenophobia and Fox news get in your way?
@Rita, loved your first post. The fact that homosexuality didn’t make the biblical top 10 is a point that I’m fond if bringing up to Christians. In addition, it’s interesting to note that the following DID make it into the 10 commandments: That the 7th day is Sabbath. It’s very specific. In other words, Christians who go to church on Sunday, (day 1) are breaking the 4th commandment every single week.
@Trillion, doesn’t it also say that anyone who works on the Sabbath should be killed?
I love how atheists tell Christians how the Bible goes.
First off, anything in the OT as far as laws go (sabbath, eating of shellfish, etc) does not apply to Christians because Jesus cancels out the law.
Trillion you are so witty. So it didnt make the top 10 so you we can do it yeah!! But you do note murder is right up there in the top 10, so you must be against abortion right? Im fond of bringing that up!
Bill Hicks – you bring up how awful Orthodox Judaism becuase they wouldnt even talk scripture to a woman (oh noes!)Then you move on to bashing Roman Catholics, but completely skip Islam who treat their women like second class citizens and stone adulters and gays a like, but you give them a pass.
Kazoo of course there is seperatio of church and state in the USA. Of course you do know that that is not even in the constitution and what little the founding fathers meant by it was they did not want a state promoted church like England, they wanted every body to be free to do whatever they wanted as far as religion goes, whcih we do.
Lastly, If a Christian says, no i do believe homosexuals are sinning. that is their right. They dont have to love the sin. they sin. We all sin. What they do need to do is love them (gays, all sinners). that is all Jesus asks of his followers.
There is no mention of homosexuality in the New Testament anywhere. So Some Christians say under “the new covenant” (aka post Jesus’ salvation via death on the cross) homosexuality is ok.
But most point out that Jesus said “man shall leave father and mother and cleave to his WIFE…” In fundamentalist Christianity the deal that is pounded into your head is God is the head of the husband, and the husband is the head of the wife. They draw diagrams, talk about it all the time. “Husbands, love your wives, wives, submit yourselves to your husband…” Marriage depends on that hierarchy, for Christians. And you are taught that the Church is the “Bride” and Christ is “The Groom” and is coming back for his “Bride” (the church). It’s viewed as very romantic and stuff. It comes from writings in the New Testament. So anyway homosexuality throws a wrench into the works because who is the “head” when it is the same sex?
Hey Emily, I’ve never come across that but of course, Sabbath breakers will be subjected to the harsh punishment of the sky-god who is apparently so insecure he demands weekly worship. Which is weird, cuz I thought he had the power to know our innermost thoughts anyhow so why the pomp? (scratches head)
this is just my opinion
The bible was written by man- not god. And that’s the old testament. the new testament was edited and changed to suit the whims of the people in charge at the time. For instance “I shall not suffer a witch to live” originally read “I shall not suffer a thief to live” and if we are to believe that all beings are created by god and in his and/or her image than that includes gay people. Therefore god made them just how he and/or she wanted them. I’m not gay but many people I care deeply for are and I can tell you they are not abominations. they are wonderful human beings who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Also the bible was written approximately 200 years after Jesus’ believed date of death. He had nothing to do with it. I personally think that Jesus would be saddened and appalled that his message of love and acceptance has been so derailed and would be probably be quite angry at all the horrible acts committed in his name. I think he would probably be quite ashamed of some of the people who claim to love him yet hate and judge others for being different. Differences are what make people interesting- life would be pretty boring if we were all carbon copies of each other. It shouldn’t matter whether you are gay, straight, bi, transgender, black, white, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan, Buddhist etc. All that should matter is that we are all human beings and that means we have more in common than we do different
Major kudos to GP on this one
@Shoe_Lover, Co-sign. I don’t understand using the Bible as a tool of judgment. IT’s giving an insane amount of power to men (no women) who were just scratching their heads trying to figure things out, with even less knowledge than we have. I am so frustrated I wasted 15 years of my life in “Bible Believing” churches…and once you’re out you cannot BELIEVE you took the book literally. It truly is brainwashing, at least if you’re a child. I used to be so sad for all the gay people “going to hell”…then again almost everyone was going to hell. Like whole continents practically.
“However, that does not mean that they endorse homosexually”
@sue: the term is homosexuality, not homosexually.
as for goop -ok, good on her for supporting gay rights, but this still doesn’t make me like her.
If I have to share heaven with a bunch of ranting, self-righteous right-wing evangelicals, I’d rather rent a room in hell.
Changing subject — love the yellow dress she is wearing in the second picture, what you can see of it.
jenni: There is no mention of homosexuality in the New Testament anywhere.
===========================================
Not by Jesus. But I think Paul goes on a rant against it in one of the NT books.
haha. I snorted laughing at her “reaction.” I doubt she said that. I bet it was more of an awkward pause between thinking about the words. Likely she just thought of herself as both moms- instant perfection. /sigh.
It’s always “well my friend is [blah] so obviously I’m okay with it.”
What ever became of Gwyneth’s brother? Is he gay?
the Goopster is now talking ethics and religion? how soon before she issues her own ten commandments? her sermon on the mount? her megalomania knows no bounds. if i want a thoughtful response to an important issue, i don’t go to goop. if i want to get over a bad day by laughing at someone, i go to goop. it is the natural order of things.
I’m glad she likes the gayz LOL I’ve always liked Gwyneth!
I’m not religious at all, but it’s amazing to me that every religion gets a free pass but Christianity. It’s as though those who think bashing Christianity make them hip, cool, or rebelious, that they are stickin’ it to the man. They’re not. They’re being pretentious.
Islam calls itself the religion of peace, yet if you say something that displeases them, they’ll chop your head off.
If you read the Talmud and what it teaches Jews on how to treat Christians (the goyim), it isn’t very nice either.
Ok, so I was a Women’s Studies major at one of the best colleges in the nation (I’ve caught a lot of flack in my professional career for that). I think it was cool of her to say that she told Apple it was cool to have 2 mommies. Its great to have 2 parents that care about you from a non-traditional background. Can we Please let goopy go on this? I honestly think she means well despite the fact that she is goopy.
It would probably be much better for the all around discussion to read Mircea Eliade’s “History of Religions”. We’d be more informed on what they each say on this matter. But with regards to why the Christian religion is discussed more than others, it’s because -at least in the US- Christian are the most vocal about these things. They are the majority, religion-wise. Are they not? I’ve never seen anything in the news or on the net about Semitic protests or Orthodox protests. But I know they do not look any kindlier on homosexuals.
However, don’t worry, the Orthodox clergy isn’t any better, neither is its flock. Over the pond, in my own dear mother country, people don’t even talk about homosexuality. Homo-what? They hear the word and they think “mythical creature”. The newer generations, by being exposed to the internet, gradually build a better cultural, political and societal awareness. But the parents who enjoyed the glorious benefits of the communist regime are still very much in the dark on many issues.
This could go on for ever. The point is, that no one is singling out the Christian religion. It’s just more in our face about this problem, so naturally we’ll discuss it.
You know what? Good for her. She’s not my favorite person ever but in this case she did good. Credit where credit is due.
@ iloverabbits, I love your post!
@trillion, thank you for your confirmation! i was going to say that the UK and France seem to do a much better job with it, but since i haven’t lived in either i was worried about stating that with absolute authority.
@constance @kasper, LOLOL!
@lisa turtle, no her brother (jake?) has a gf. it’s always creeped me out how much he looks like chris martin.
I bet Gwyneth hasn’t actually read what the Bible says about homosexuality. Until she does some research on the subject, whatever she says is invalid. It’s just like making a comment about the Muslim religion, without reading the Quran first.
@sam:
“First off, anything in the OT as far as laws go (sabbath, eating of shellfish, etc) does not apply to Christians because Jesus cancels out the law.”
Then saying homosexuality is an “abomination” is cancelled out also, since this is not mentioned BY JESUS in the NT.
“Trillion you are so witty. So it didnt make the top 10 so you we can do it yeah!! But you do note murder is right up there in the top 10, so you must be against abortion right? Im fond of bringing that up!”
Abortion is not murder. That’s all.
I don’t have a lot of tolerance for religion, mainly because it’s just plain ridiculous.
If your 30 year old daughter said she still believed in Santa(and meant it) you would be concerned about her mental health. Yet, it’s ok, no not ok a mandate that blind faith/love/fear and unwarranted worship in some mean man in the sky be unabashedly and continually acknowledged and welcomed by all.
I have no problem with God, religion – any religion — ah no thanks.
My point is that the word “abomination” is a very significant word and yet when Moses was given the top ten “Thou Shalt Nots”, homosexuality did not make the cut. It’s way behind adultery, lying stealing, killing and the like.
________
It was on the third tablet in Mel Brooks’ movie, but Moses dropped it.
I’m with danny, kasper, angelmay, emily; goopy says something that appeals to the faux progressives and suddenly she’s a theologian/philosopher nonsense as sais by Plato in THe republic :Opinions without knowledge are ugly. SHe’s a celebutard that has too much time and too little real education and scholarship in her brain when you combine intellectual vacuity with ample leisure you get someone like Goopy. Religious studies are a lifelong pursuit and require familiarity with languages (greek, hebrew, aramaic,etc.) to be done right. If she wants to spout off take the time to acquire some real credentials – if she were not a celebutard would we even care? Shoelover I believe the canon was established around 90-100 ad not 200 hundred years after the death of Jesus of Nazareth. THere is a vast literature on this subject start with R.G.Swinburne and ALvin Plantinga and John Hicks all much better than Mircea eliade.
@sam, if anything in the OT is cancelled out by Jesus, then homosexuality isn’t a sin.
@Trillion, I might be wrong, I just thought it was one of the things in the Bible that carries a really disproportionate punishment. And yeah, I’ve always wondered by God’s so insecure about needing people to be in church on the sabbath. And also worshipping other deities. I’m a pagan, and I’ve never heard about Zeus bitching about not getting worshipper’s full attention!
@Joe Schmoe, to me, it’s just because we live in a mainly Christian based society, so that’s what we make fun of. I’m sure if I lived in a Muslim or Hindu based society, I’d be making fun of that religion. But since my society isn’t founded on those, they’re not my main concern. Melbourne doesn’t have Muslim nutters protesting and filming outside abortion clinics, we have Christian nutters.
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