Does Kit Harington believe that Ned Stark is Jon Snow’s father? (spoilers)

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Minor SPOILERS for this season of Game of Thrones.

I wasn’t expecting everyone to love yesterday’s Kit Harington story, so here’s another one! HUZZAH. It’s part of our ongoing series, “Celebitchy Presents: Kit Harington Says Words.” In today’s episode, Kit Harington says words about Jon Snow as a political leader. Kit – like Jon Snow – knows nothing, really. But I think it’s cute that he tries. Kit also doesn’t know what to think about all of the speculation regarding Jon Snow’s real parents (SPOILER: R+L = J). You can read the full Daily Beast piece here. Some highlights:

Kit on Jon Snow’s shaky leadership: “He completely splits the Night’s Watch down the middle—those who support him and love him, and those who don’t. I don’t really want to compare him to a real-life politician, but in American politics, he’s like certain people. They really love him or hate him at the Wall, and it’s the only democracy there is in Thrones.”

Is Jon Snow like Pres. Obama? “You know what, I was going to… and now I’m going to not! But he’s divisive, you know? And that’s because of the mercy he shows to the wildlings by referring to them as ‘Free Folk.’ He’s trying to change minds and change the way things have been done forever at the Wall. He’s trying to diplomatically and politically change people’s opinions for the greater good, but that’s never easy, and it’s going to put him at risk.”

Whether Jon Snow lost his V to Ygritte: “We don’t strictly know he did get laid in the cave—I’d like to point that out. We know he did other things, but we don’t know if he fully went there.”

Jon Snow’s parents: “Well, I think it’s Ned, isn’t it? I’m pretty sure it is. But, yeah, I’m just assuming until proven otherwise!”

Jon Snow’s severe loneliness: “Where he is this season is he’s acutely aware of imminent danger—which is all around him. He’s not wrapped up too much in trying to get over Ygritte, but at the same time he’s in a place of severe loneliness. As he climbs the rungs of becoming a commander and leading other men, he starts to realize how isolated it makes him, and there’s a point at the end of the season where we see that very clearly. It’s the lowest place he’s ever been, and that’s going to push him to do quite extreme things in the future.”

[From The Daily Beast]

Extreme things like what? Like riding one of Dany’s dragons to capture Kings Landing?! I’ve actually had the books spoiled for me when it comes to Jon Snow’s temporary (?) fate so far, although it’s worth noting that most readers believe Jon Snow is going to be in it until the very end of the story. And no one believes Jon Snow is like Pres. Obama. And no one believes Ned Stark is really Jon’s father!! Kit Harington knows nothing.

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Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet.

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298 Responses to “Does Kit Harington believe that Ned Stark is Jon Snow’s father? (spoilers)”

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  1. kri says:

    I think the more important question here is “As an actor, shouldn’t he have more than one facial expression”? He always has resting cry face, and it’s irking me.

  2. Bridget says:

    Phrase I never thought i’d see: “Is Jon Snow like President Obama”

  3. paola says:

    Kaiser you can’t post something about GoT every day because out of the window goes every attempt I make to work without distractions!!!

    I think Jon did lose his V in the cave. he wouldn’t tell anybody because of his oath to the Night’s Watch but we all know the truth. Ygritte wouldn’t have been happy otherwise. She knew what she wanted unlike Jon that knows nothing!

    • Abbott says:

      I had an overly involved conversation with a stranger in the Starbucks line about the Others this morning. Kaiser is enabling us.

      • paola says:

        Oh Abbott. I feel you. My life is revolving around GoT already too much.
        What did the stranger say?

      • Abbott says:

        I was asking my book-reading coworker the difference between the Others, The Children of the Forest, and Cold Hands (I always confuse them). Guy behind us overheard and we all started talking. He’s a book reader too so I didn’t understand most of what those nerds were talking about.

        The stranger thinks they’re Children of the Forest who split into another group.

      • Bridget says:

        @Abbott: Cold hands is a wizard and I think a warg.

      • Abbott says:

        Bridget, who do you think Cold Hands is (if anyone at all)? Some people think he was formerly someone of importance.

      • paola says:

        He’s probably a dementor.
        :D

      • mimif says:

        I think Cold Hands* is actually dead aka reanimated a la Lady Stoneheart.
        *not Benjen

      • Abbott says:

        Which reminds me *ahem* what do you think happened to Benjen?

      • Size Does Matter says:

        I have always thought Coldhands was Benjen Stark, Ned’s brother and first ranger who went missing in the first book after going ranging north of the wall. He wears all black. He would be Bran and Jon’s uncle.

        There is a missing Lannister uncle, too. Tyrion’s favorite uncle who sailed away and never came back. I bet he’s coming back.

      • mimif says:

        @Size, GRRM personally debunked the Cold Hands/Benjen theory. I havering no idea where he is, wish he would come back tho. He’s kinda hot.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        I didn’t know that! There goes one thing I’ve clung to as fact. JHC, how do people keep up with everything? He has to be a former ranger, at least, right? He can’t be a warg because they can go south of the wall (remember when that one tried to kill Lord Commander Mormont in Castle Black and Jon/Ghost saved him?) and Coldhands couldn’t.

        I can’t believe the amount of time I spend thinking about all this, and how minimal it must be compared to the people on the major fan sites.

      • Bridget says:

        Cold Hands is a Targaryen wizard from a couple generations ago. I can’t quite remember which one, but it’s a pretty anti-climactic answer because it was such an obscure character. The whole point of him is as a guide to Bran and his powers and unlocking the Heart trees.

      • Abbott says:

        Dang. I should probably just woman up and read the books?

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Aren’t the Others zombies? People the White Walkers have killed or turned into zombies? Two of the dead Nightswatch turned into Others in the first season. That’s why they burn bodies North of the Wall; so people don’t get turned into Others.

        I initially thought Coldhands was Benjen Stark and he had somehow been turned into an Other or a. White walker but was still rebelling against it so he was able to help Bran but Martin has denied that theory

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @Bridget, you are confusing Coldhands and the Three-Eyed Raven, who is a Targaryen (Aemon’s half brother) who has been waiting to train Bran so he can replace him. He’s part tree at this point so he wasn’t leading Bran and his group around. All we know about Cold Hands is that he wears black, which indicates he was Nightswatch

      • Size Does Matter says:

        @bridget re: Coldhands. Does that info come from one of the side books? Or a GRRM interview?

      • becks says:

        I think Cold Hands indeed is a wizard/warlock of sorts. The children of the forest have been living since the First Men appeared. My question is what is the difference between the wights and the others (white walkers)? Or are they the same thing?

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @sizedoesmatter. Martin said in an interview that Benjen is not Coldhands. The information that the Three-Eyed Raven is Bryndon Targaryen was in a side book

      • mimif says:

        @becks, the Others/White Walkers are the big ass frozen things that scare the shit out of everyone, wights are reanimated corpses that they warg.

      • Abbott says:

        @mimif I thought the Others and White Walkers were two separate groups? I swear, I will never get this part straight.

      • Lucrezia says:

        The Others (book name) are the White Walkers (tv name). On TV you can’t hear the capital letter so the producers changed the name so it’d be clear who was being spoken about. (“The Others are coming” = oh, sh*t! “The others are coming” = oh, cool. Can they pick up some more beer on their way?)

        Wights are the zombies they raise.

        Based on the book, I always assumed Coldhands was a wight … somehow mysteriously free of the control of the Others. But they left him out of the TV show, so I’m not sure on that theory now. If you could “rescue” a wight it’d almost have to be an important plot point, right? So now I’m leaning towards the idea that he’s more like Lady Catelyn.

      • mimif says:

        @Lilac, I said this somewhere else on here (I’m so lost) but I think Cold Hands was brought back like Lady Stoneheart, etc., and not a wight. That would be interesting if they melded those two story lines tho.

      • Abbott says:

        Ahhh. Thanks, Lucrezia! White Walkers might be terrible to have at a party, even if they did pick up more beer.

        They completely skipped the Lady Stoneheart storyline though, yes? I wonder why they did that, considering a similar situation seemingly happens to Jon (I think, according to Wiki).

      • Bridget says:

        @lilac: I thought Cold Hands and the raven were the same individual?

      • mimif says:

        @Bridget, Three Eyed Raven is the last greenseer (he’s literally part of the weirwood), formerly Lord Brynden (a bastard Targ). Coldhands is an unknown (as of now) dead dude, most likely a former Ranger, but not a wight.

      • Bridget says:

        Well clearly I know nothing.

      • Sapphire says:

        Cold hands is likely Ned Stark’s older brother who took the Black, went to the Wall and was a Ranger lost on Patrol. Book nerd here *raises hand*.

      • M.A.F. says:

        @Abbott- the producers said they left out Lady Stoneheart because the part in the book was small and she only appears in the 4th book and that is it. Therefore, they felt the part wasn’t up to the actresses acting skill which would be a waste.

        I’m still only on the 4th book and every Sunday I get just far enough ahead of the TV except for this past Sunday. Who were the ladies at Winterfell?

      • mimif says:

        @Sapphire, Ned’s older brother, Bran, was killed during Robert’s Rebellion. His younger brother, Benjen, took the black and was lost on patrol, but GRRM has publicly stated that Coldhands is not Benjen.

        @M.A.F., those were Ramsey’s consorts, I believe, and just as f-cking psychotic as he is.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        @MAF – the ladies at Winterfell in the receiving line when Dark Sansa arrived? The main one was Myranda, Ramsey Snow/Bolton’s girlfriend/torture partner. Not sure who the others were.

    • mimif says:

      I was laughing about “I wasn’t expecting everyone to love Kit’s story yesterday” because paola, Abot and I went ham on it, making up half the posts at least. (Thanks for giving us a safe play room to geek out on, guys.) :)
      Anyway, a few things: Kit knows what he’s doing, and he’s playing the game. He’s not going to spoil it for those people that aren’t quite as deep into the theories (cough, looking at you paola). I thought his comments on Jon’s divisiveness were spot on, too. And lastly, you know nothing because the dragon Jon will be riding/Bran will be warging is made of ice, and it’s under the wall. The End.

      • paola says:

        ahah!
        I’m giggling like a fool.
        Yes I am down the rabbit hole… I need someone to come and save me.
        I am now reading the italian forum rooms too.
        I am beyond salvation at this point.
        Can you imagine how epic it would be if Bran would warg a frakin DRAGON???
        Oh. my. GOD.
        An ice dragon that spits fire and burns everyone that we ( me, abbott and you mimif) don’t like.
        The end.

      • mimif says:

        Bran will fly, it is known. I wish I could speak Italian, because I want to know ALL the theories!
        @Abot, yeah what did they say about the Others, and how the hell did that come up, anyway? I’ll have a double tall half caf-decaf mochaccinolatte with a twist and a drizzle of White Walkers…

      • paola says:

        Or..
        I need a really hot mochaccino because WINTER IS COMING!

      • Abbott says:

        I read they hadn’t planned on giving us Bran’s storyline this season, but I’m wondering why not? He’s doing his Jedi training like Arya and it’s probably hella interesting.

        How do we know Bran is going to fly?

      • mimif says:

        The Three Eyed Raven told him so. :D

        Also, sorry I’m posting all over the place, but the children of the forest are little assholes.

      • paola says:

        Uhm.
        If I’m honest I think there are not enough episodes to cover the whole story properly. The producers should rethink the lenght of each episode and give us more.
        i mean.. I miss HODOR ( HODOR! HODOR!) and I want to see his training as a warg pro.
        All this time wasted following Danaerys that does absolutely nothing apart from proving us that she is a stupid graduate Angry Bird and no Bran in sight.

      • Abbott says:

        I was glad we got a break from Dany last episode. I felt the same way about Jon Snow for a long time but then his story picked up. Maybe Dany’s will, too? I can’t wait for Tyrion to tell her what a doof she is. Can you imagine those two together?

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Without going fully into book details, Bran’s “flying” doesn’t involve actual physical flight but has a lot to do with the religion of the North and the trees

      • mimif says:

        I want details, Lilacflowers! I was just hoping he’d warg the ice dragon.

      • becks says:

        Yes, but Jon is also a worg….he’s just not aware of it. He warns into Ghost all the time, but he thinks they are just “dreams”. Arya also has the ability.

      • paola says:

        Abbott
        I’m not sure Tyrion will make it to Danaerys any time soon. I’m sure some stuff will happen between now and then.

      • Lilacflowers says:

        @Mimif, maybe he will. He’s a talented warg. The Children give him a potion to drink that enables him to see through the eyes cut into the weir wood trees all over Westoros.

        I want to know where Nymeria is. And why they’ve left Arya’s wolf dreams out of the show

      • Abbott says:

        Wait. Is there another dragon besides Dany’s dragons or are we just wishful thinking? Cause in that case, I want Falcor to make a surprise appearance with Sebastian. Aaaatraaaayooooo!

      • mimif says:

        Lmao Abot, and now I’ll be singing that theme song all day long. There’s a theory that there is an ice dragon under the Wall.

        @Lilac, don’t they give Bran Jojen paste? *shudders* Re: Arya, I think I said this yesterday too, so forgive, but it makes sense that they would drop the Nymeria storyline, because essentially “Arya” is disappearing.

      • Bridget says:

        @lilac: you clearly read book #5 closer than I did, because you’ve caught a bunch of details I totally missed. 1,2, and 3 I know backwards and forwards, but 4 & 5 don’t really inspire me to re-read.

      • QQ says:

        to Back Lilac Up, Bran even Talks to That Bastard Theon Greyjoy in the Winterfell Forrest through the trees and gets to “see” all their history

      • M.A.F. says:

        @Abbot- they have caught up to Bran’s story.

  4. gilly says:

    Of course he lost it.

    • Liv says:

      Did I dream about it? Seriously, didn’t Melisandre asked him straight away in the last episode and he confirmed it?

      • mimif says:

        I think he did his little shifty eye thingie and confirmed it.

      • Liv says:

        They talked about it, right? I didn’t dreamt it? I remember he actually said no (when she asked if he was a virgin).

        I assume the interview took place before the episode aired.

      • littlestar says:

        He confirmed he wasn’t a virgin when Melisandre asked him. Was this interview done prior to this season airing?

  5. Paleokifaru says:

    He needs to read the books and stop commenting. Because everyone who’s read the books knows that Snow did go that far with Ygritte.

    • epiphany says:

      Harington did read all the books, years before he was cast on the show – one of the few cast members who has, BTW. His father owns a bookstore in Worcester, and he read them when he was a teen. He’s just messing with you when he says things like that.

      • mimif says:

        Thank you. Give the guy some credit already, he’s not an imbecile.

      • Paleokifaru says:

        Mimif I don’t know why I would need to give credit to him when he’s going on the record with such ridiculous statements. Even the Harry Potter kids were better with their interviews and discussing source material.

      • paola says:

        Honestly I think he likes to play dumb.
        He can’t say anything because anything would be a spoiler at this point.
        I’ve seen the first 4 episodes before they were aired on tv and i had to tiptoe around people for 3 weeks because I couldn’t keep up with the aired storyline.
        My bf at the moment is not talking to me on GoT because he knows i’m going to blab.
        Kit probably feels the same.

      • littlestar says:

        I agree with mimif, I think he’s being kind and not spoiling anything for those who haven’t read the books. He’s being a tease and having a little fun at it too! He knows what he’s doing :) .

    • CFY says:

      But the show is now veering so far away from the books that it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that they decided there was no actual penetration. D&D are doing their own (substandard) thing now.

      • Ennie says:

        I hope this post gets in the correct place. Tyriom seems to get to Dany soon enough. As far as I know SPOILERS???

        …he was digitally erased from the final trailer when Dany and her entourage are surrounded at the fighting pit. Someone was looking at the trailer frame by frame and found a a boot and no Tyrion, and there were pics of the actors all together, including Dinklage.
        I wish Old George would hurry, I am worry about his health (and most of all, the series TBH)

      • mimif says:

        Oh…muy interesante!

    • mom2two says:

      You are correct that he lost it in the books. The show left it unclear, or to the viewer’s assumption. They included the “Lord’s Kiss” scene but showed nothing else, so Harington is not wrong in saying this. The show version could be Jon and Ygritte messed around but never went all the way like CFY said.
      Epiphany is also correct that he read all the books, he’s not only said that but other cast members have said that about him. I am sure he has his beliefs as to who Jon’s parents are but he’s not giving them up and he shouldn’t because people could (and would) take his opinion as fact.

      • mimif says:

        This exactly. Dude gets piled on when there’s not really much room for him to comment either way. That’s why he’s “going back to being a little hunk”. Lol

  6. Lilacflowers says:

    Is he incapable of smiling?

    As for Jon Snow’s parentage, the dragon has three heads. Viserys is dead and 100 year old Maester Aemon’s dragon riding days are over.

    • mimif says:

      What about (fake) Aegon?

      • Size Does Matter says:

        I’ve been so deep in the fan sites that now I’m hopelessly confused. And since show plot and book plot have diverged in several ways and I haven’t gone back to reread or rewatch everything, I’m finding myself with more questions than answers. And I think it’s a bit pointless to guess exactly where GRRM is going and the internal motivations of a bunch of fictional characters when GRRM can kill or revive or invent new ones on a whim. But I keep trying to do it anyway.

        Question – does the dragon have three heads on TV or just in the books? I’m pretty satisfied with who two of the heads are, but the third?

      • Bridget says:

        @mimif: The original fake baby.

        @size: i like the other big fan theory about the 3rd head. It makes a lot of sense.

      • mimif says:

        Hm, good question. I can’t recall the dragon has three heads in the show, but since it’s a fairly important detail to the entire story, I would assume that at some point it will be addressed. There’s also the theory that the three heads are already dead, and what’s playing out is the end of the prophecy.
        I’ll show myself out now. Oh but wait, we might see Ned again!!

      • Bridget says:

        @mimif: if that’s the case, wouldnt that mean that the series would end with the King of Winter winning and perpetual winter winning out? I would be PISSED.

      • mimif says:

        I just saw your OG fake baby comment, Bridget. 😄

        Nah, here’s the deal (stole this theory from my future husband from reddit): The North Remembers. Winter is coming because Dany and her stupid dragons are going to torch the world (think of the Doom Of Valyria). The Others are coming to put out the fire. The Starks are the buffers between the Others and Dany/fire/Lannisters. Jon is a Stark AND a Lannister, so who better to negotiate? And then HODOR wakes up and it was all just a dream.

        *screams into tin foil*

      • paola says:

        mimif stop it! It CAN’T be just a dream.
        I retract it. I will delete your memory.
        I like your summary though. Very effective.

        (Jon is a Stark and a Targaryen though. You got confused. all these name are driving us nuts!)

      • mimif says:

        Shit, that was bad, I meant Targ, sorry. *sips mochaccinolatte for strength*

      • paola says:

        I know you’re just doing it to see if I pay attention to what you write
        :D

      • mimif says:

        Lol paola, I think at this point you’re the only one who knows how deep I’ve gone. 😝

      • paola says:

        At this point I think people are not even reading what we say anymore. I keep writing on every free inch of this page taking more room each passing post.
        I’m like a virus.

      • mimif says:

        Tomorrow, there will be a Sansa Stark post and everyone will be all meh, and we’ll be like (a hundred posts later) BUT DID YOU READ THAT ONE THEORY?!

      • Lilacflowers says:

        Yes, Aegon. But Aegon plus Dany only equal two and there need to be three

      • paola says:

        Ahahah mimif!
        We are starting a movement. We’re capable of big things. All we need is for Kaiser to give us a little empty page to play on. :D
        a Sansa’s post sounds good to me. But I’d rather have a Boltons’ post if I can choose.

      • mimif says:

        How about Dorne? When do we get Dorne! (this Sunday, yay!)

        Aegon is a fake Targ tho, right? If you believe the Blackfyre theory, that is. So then we would need two, unless the three are already dead.

      • paola says:

        I don’t like Ellaria Sand. She’s seeking revenge and she’s completely different from the books.
        Dorne looks beautiful and i already love Doran.
        I hope he won’t disappoint me.

        My favorite place so far is Braavos. It reminds me a lot of Venice.

        Aegon is a fake Targaryen i think. But at this point I’m so confused i don’t even remember my own name. And which house I belong to.
        ahah
        I always felt like a Stark though. :D

      • mimif says:

        Oh paola, my friend, you are a wildling through and through! ;)

        I totally think Aegon is a fake Targ, and probably Illyrio’s baby (??) that he and Varys are trying to get on the throne (re: Blackfyre theory). I think the Targs are bad f-cking news and everyone knows it. Who really wants Dany on the throne? Name one person not in her circle. I can’t think of one.

        The Sand Sisters are sssscary cool tho! And ditto to Bravos, totally thought it was modeled after Venice when I saw last week’s episode.

      • paola says:

        I suppose I could be a wildling despite not having ginger hair!!
        But I do like the cold.
        Yeah now that i think of it I am no lady. No Stark for me.

        The sand snakes are cool-ish.. Arianne my favorite is not in the show… but we’ll see what happens.
        They’re accents drive me up the wall though.. they sound spanish and Ellaria is no better. She speaks spanglish and it’s very very distracting. It was sexy on Oberyn but not so much on Ellaria.

        Illyrio has got so many secrets that he’s overshadowing varys at this point.

      • Abbott says:

        Where is Illyrio anyway? Raising his and Varys’ secret baby?

      • mimif says:

        Yeah some of the accents on the show are mind numbing. I love Jamie Lannister, but even his…what is he, Dutch? I can’t remember, but even he slips up on his accent at times. I miss Oberyn…

        http://img.pandawhale.com/121718-Oberyn-headache-excedrin-migra-6FId.jpeg

      • paola says:

        I think Jamie is danish while Melissandre is dutch.
        The thing is that Ellaria is english! she speaks english not spanglish in real life.. so i guess in the fantasy land of Dorne they all speak spanglish because that is their accent.
        It is very distracting though.

        LOL to that link of pedro Pascal.

      • mimif says:

        Where is Illyrio? Good question. I forget who has Aegon, but I know at some point Gilly’s baby and the two get the switcharoo. OR SOMETHING. Shit, I just flashed forwarded way too far.

        I did not know that The Red Bitch was Dutch, thought she was French. Can’t stand her accent, as I might have mentioned three thousand times previously. Did not know that Ellaria was English, holy sand snakes, her accent is bad too. Let’s talk about the awesome accents then! Tyrion does really well, IMO.

      • Abbott says:

        I can barely understand Natalie Dormer since she uses only one side of her mouth to talk.

      • paola says:

        Where is Illyrio?
        I have no idea.
        We know that Varys and Tyrion were hiding in his house. I’m sure we’ll see him soon.

        Awesome accents it is!
        Tyrion has a great accent considering he is american. Peter Dinklage plays his character very well in my opinion. I love Tyrion.

        I love the wildlings accent.. i find the nothern accent to be very sexy on a man.

        Daario Naharis sounds convincing too. He’s dutch but he’s way above Melissandre. Accent wise.

        I hate Greyworm’s accent. he sounds retarded when he speaks english.

      • mimif says:

        Greyworm is so freaking hot, but yeah dude needs to keep his mouth shut. Daario looks like Fabio to me, so I can’t even with him. And lol @Natalie Dormer Abot, she used to but the ever living shut out of me, but her character is growing on me. Even tho I’m worried she’s gonna go Full Cersei on us.

      • paola says:

        I love the way Danaerys and Missandei speak valyrian.
        the most glorious moment was when Dany got her dragon back from that guy in Yunkai revealing herself as a fluent valiryan speaker.
        ‘Drakaris’ she said.
        That was enough. Epic moment. EPIC.

        Missandei is such a gracious actress. I just wish Greyworm had his ‘stones and pillar’ back for just one day. But then I realise they can get busy in real life where I’m sure he has all his body parts. They seem like a hot couple. Maybe they’ll get together at some point.

      • mimif says:

        I almost said the same thing! Those two are smoking hot together and I too wish he still had his sausage. And earlier today too I meant to say the only thing I like about Dany is that she’s multi-lingual and pulls off Dothraki & high Valyrian equally well. HODOR!

      • paola says:

        When you say dothraki all I think about is Drogo.
        He went away too soon.
        I wasn’t ready to not see his six pack ever again.

    • Bridget says:

      Interesting. Except the Others are all-consuming. They’re scary enough that the Wall was made to keep them out. Here’s my theory (delightfully unoriginal): obviously Dany’s dragons are the only thing to stop the Others, and she’s what’ll stop the civil war since she’s essentially the only neutral person. Also, she’s sterile, so Jon will marry someone and have children that’ll be Stark, Targaryen, and someone else. The (as of yet to be revealed) 3rd person will help rule.

      See, totally unoriginal.

      • mimif says:

        But are the Others scary? Or is just that what we are told? Personally, I’m a helluva lot more afraid of a petulant wanna be queen with a few uncontrollable dragons, than I am of a frozen white dude riding a dead horse. Maybe the wall was put there to keep the men OUT of the north. Just saying, 50 shades of what if and stuff.

      • paola says:

        I don’t think they’re scary. This is what Martin wants us to believe for a subsequent change of plot.

        What if the wall wasn’t built to keep the White Walkers in but to keep all the other people out of their frozen land?

      • mimif says:

        Classic bait and switch, right?

      • Bridget says:

        The White Walkers turn and consume everyone in their path. They want endless Winter. But as you guys stated, it could be that GRRM will change his mind!

        Also, I don’t know why my last reply started a new sub-thread. Computer.

      • Bridget says:

        Plus, don’t forget that there’s a whole notion of fate – Rhaegar only kidnapped Lyanna as a part of a prophecy he thought he had to fulfill, which set the entire events in motion. It seems really convoluted to have the White Walkers ultimately be the good guys in this event and Dany the bad guy, as it was essentially the prophecy that created Dany’s position in the first place.

      • mimif says:

        Do they want endless winter tho, or have they risen from their slumber because Dany hatched some dragons that threaten their (and everyone else’s) existence? I think the point is, nobody really knows who is “good” and who is “bad”. Except for the maesters, the maesters know that dragons are very, very bad, and that’s why they are so anti-magic. Magic brought the dragons back, right? And probably the only thing that’s going to temper them is something like a big ass frozen white dude on a horse that consumes everything in it’s path.

        I feel like I need to buy you a coffee, Bridget, for putting up with me. Or maybe a margarita.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        Somebody help me. Wargs = ice zombies. Others = Wargs? Or Others = Night’s King (right, who took the babies and turned their eyes blue?)?

        Gah! Others = white walkers = night’s king? Wargs = throwaway ice zombie soldiers (with exception of Coldhands?)?

      • paola says:

        I think the White Walkers are rebuilidng their army and they’re now not strong enough for a war. That’s also why they get hold of all the Craster’s babies. I believe in the past there’s been a pact where the Starks and the White Walkers were frenemies. They agreed to not cross each other’s path and now that pact is destroyed. I think Jon is the one that will restore the pact and he’ll be the missing link between the north and the south in order to re-establish the quiet in the realm.
        I’m not saying WW are good and Danaerys is bad.. at this point everybody is everything. They’re all fighting for their own territory in their own right. I can’t blame any of them.
        The only ones I can’t stand are the Boltons and the Greyjoys. They are exactly where they shouldn’t be.

      • Bridget says:

        @mimif: they were around way before Dany’s dragons hatched. Remember the story of Craster’s sons?

      • Bridget says:

        @size: Wargs = shape shifters/skinwalkers. It’s why the Starks’ pairing with their direwolves is so important.

      • Abbott says:

        But didn’t the White Walkers/Others start coming around before those dragon eggs hatched?

        So what was the tipping point for the Others? General breaking of the treaty? Euron’s dragon horn? That zombie in the Winterfell crypt? Buy 1, Get 1 fro-yo deal?

      • mimif says:

        Somebody help me. Wargs = ice zombies. Others = Wargs? Or Others = Night’s King (right, who took the babies and turned their eyes blue?)?

        Wargs = anyone who morphs into another body
        Others = Ice Zombies
        Wights = corpses warged by Ice Zombies
        Night’s King = Stark who took an Other bride in the olden days and made the Stark line

        @Abot, its kind of hard to follow the timeline because there are so many sub-stories, but I think the Others started coming back with the return of the dragons/magic.

        @paola, you go girl. I’d still do Roose tho, even if he is a vampire/faceless man/Other.

      • Bridget says:

        Mimif you’ve got it.

        And Abbott is correct, the Others pre-date Dany. They’ve pretty much always been behind the Wall, but the whole point is that they’re building their numbers and trying to breach it. Its also why the Wildlings amassed their armies and are moving South.

      • paola says:

        mimif you make so much sense I want to cry!
        (I think I’m going crazy now.)

        I’d do Jon Snow if I’m honest. he seems dumb but he’s hot in those stinky furry clothes.
        macho macho maaaaan.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        Good lord, I had confused Wargs (shape shifters = Bran, Arya, Jon) and wights (zombie ice soldiers). And I call myself a fan. *hangs head in shame*

      • mimif says:

        @Size, not to worry, we will get you caught up in no time, and then you’ll be wishing we hadn’t. ;)

        @paola, I’d totally do Tormund. Shit, I’d probably do a White Walker, I’ve got a thing for the tall guys.

      • paola says:

        I was thinking that Ed Sheeran would fit perfectly with the wildlings. Too bad he wasn’t cast for a role in this season.
        I’d bang Loras Tyrell big time.
        He looks like a young Jude Law but with a head full fo hair.

      • Abbott says:

        I’ll take Theon. I cannot put into words my fascination with him.

      • paola says:

        Yeah but he has no penis. Or fingers.
        Good luck with that.
        *giggles covering her mouth with her hand*

      • mimif says:

        😂😂 I kind of love you for that, Abot, even if it’s the most insane thing I’ve read here today. Did you know IRL Theon is Lily Allen’s brother?

      • Abbott says:

        I know, and he thinks his name is Reek and he has severe Stockholm Syndrome and he too far lost to be of anything but a burden on his loved ones and society but he’s cuuuuuute.

        IRL he looks kind of doofy. He’s awful pretty on the show.

      • Lucrezia says:

        I’m terrible at names, so I constantly confuse the 100-odd minor characters, but I don’t have a problem with wight and warg because they’re not made up by GRRM – they’re old words, often used by fantasy authors. I read a lot of fantasy, so they’re familiar to me. So maybe it would help if you know where the words come from in the first place?

        Warg = old Norse word for wolf. (Sometimes spelt varg.) That’s why it’s sometimes called “warging” and sometimes “skin-changing”. If you wanted to get ultra-technical, “warging” would just be shifting into a wolf/direwolf, and skin-changing would be shifting into anything else. (But I think there was only one book character who used it the language that formally.)

        Wight = undead. Like wraith or ghoul.

      • paola says:

        I can’t stand Lily Allen so I hope her brother is nothing like her in real life.

      • mimif says:

        @Bridget, I just saw your posts about Craster’s “offerings”. Yeah the WW were around, but they kept to their side, right? I don’t think they started moving south until the eggs were presented to Dany. That’s how I understood it, anyway.

      • mimif says:

        Lily Allen can piss up a rope. Remember when she was trying to ride Theon’s coattails?

        Lucrezia, I think I love you and I’m glad you showed up to the party. :D

      • Abbott says:

        mimif, I loved how Alfie publicly shut her down when she said she was offered the role as the sister. heh.

      • Bridget says:

        @mimif: consider the prologue of the very first book. The Others were quietly making their movie long before Dany got the eggs.

        @Lucrezia: in the books, wargs can inhabit any animal (including humans)not just wolves.

      • paola says:

        Abbott

        Lily Allen was trying to steal Alfie’s moment and he put her right where she belongs.
        I can’t believe she wanted to milk that for her own sake. Geeeesh she has some nerve.
        If she ended up in the show I would have probably fastforwarded the parts where she’d be in.

      • mimif says:

        @paola, you’re still here! Yay, I was starting to miss you. :D

        @Bridget, I seriously can’t remember shit (CRS). Maybe the Others started making the move when the Targ kids weren’t killed? All I know is that there were rumors he was into field hockey players…oh wait, wrong thread. What I *think* is that the Others reemergence is directly related to the reemergence of the possibility of magic/dragons. So maybe when the Targs survived and were secretly shipped off OR when Lyanna gave birth to Fire & Ice aka Jon, as maybe they needed that particular combo to war against Dany. Both of which would have happened at the same time. Catch my drift? Am I making any sense? NO.

      • paola says:

        Yes! Still here with the head full of new ideas! Went out for a pizza with a friend but he had to go back home early so here I am :D

        I want to see Cersei’s 3rd prophecy. It’s really intruiguing.

        Her ‘super-eww face’ was already there even at such a young age.

      • mimif says:

        OH SNAP! Did we talk about the theory that The Hound is the “little brother” that kills Cersei when he takes on the resurrected Gregor Cleganestein??
        P.s. Super jeal of your pizza.

      • Bridget says:

        mimif: Hey, it’s your theory. We still have an entire two books worth of material that hasn’t been covered, anything can happen!

      • paola says:

        mimif!!!
        Tell me more!!
        The hound is the valanqar??

      • mimif says:

        I know nothing! :D

      • Bridget says:

        I hope so, if just because otherwise the Hound had such a crappy ending. He was such a great character.

        Though still, doesn’t Tyrion deserve to give Cersei just a little payback?

      • mimif says:

        ***SPOILERS*** The Hound is not dead. I love love love Rory McCann and think he did such an awesome job as Sandor Clegane (I think he’s hot too).

      • Bridget says:

        YES!

      • Lucrezia says:

        @ mimi: I found my peoples! As a book-reader I was avoiding the GoT threads in case I accidentally spoiled for the TV-only people. I’d never give away an obvious spoiler like the Red Wedding, but it’s easy to slip a little if you’re talking about obscure fan-theories. Everyone here seems cool with a bit of vague hinting, so yay!

        @ Bridget: I just double-checked … GRRM clarified that “warg” technically means wolf-only and that “skin-changer” is a more general term, in an interview. All wargs are skin-changers, but not all skin-changers are wargs – they might have a bond to a different animal. Kind of like werewolves (lycanthropy) is specific while werebeast (therianthropy) would be general.

        It’s only a tiny little detail, but it adds to the Norse symbolism, which I always find really fascinating. The books are chock full of Norse links, too many for it to be a coincidence. Just one example:

        Ragnarok is an epic battle between gods and icy invaders, preceded by 3 years of winter. In the lead-up to Ragnarok, Tyr (warrior god associated with glory and justice) binds Fenrir (a giant wolf). As a consequence, Tyr loses his hand. Fenrir goes on to eventually eat the sun and then kill Odin – wise sorcerer, blind in one eye yet capable of mystical vision, associated with 3 ravens.

        Winter is coming, heralded by icy invaders. Jamie (warrior dude associated with glory and justice in the sense that he’s famous for breaking his oath and killing the Mad King) cripples Bran (who’s associated with wolves) and eventually loses his hand. Bran goes on to meet Brynden Rivers, a wise sorcerer, who tells Bran that “Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.” Brynden happens to be blind in one eye yet capable of mystical vision, and called either BloodRaven or the 3-eyed crow.

        If that kind of thing interests you, check out http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html (Be warned, big book spoilers!) I don’t agree with all the ideas/conclusions, but there sheer number of Norse links he/she identifies is staggering.

      • mimif says:

        I need to be more careful about spoilers, darnit, but it’s so. much. fun.
        That link looks interesting, I’ll check it out. The sheer volume of mythology period that GRRM uses is amazing. I mean, he pulls a little bit from everything, right? Fictional mythology (LOTR) or not.
        Re: Bran, little worried about the guy. All the bones at the base of the Three Eyed Raven, almost if the bleeding Weirwood need human nourishment to communicate. Just saying….

    • Lilacflowers says:

      @Size, the dragons only have one head each, both in the book and show, but they come in threes so there need to be three Targaryen riders. And not all Targaryens can be dragon riders. They have to be able to have “dragon dreams” (no clue). Rhaegor had them; Viserys didn’t

  7. FingerBinger says:

    Having never read the books my theory has always been that Robert Baratheon was Jon Snow’s father.

    • mom2two says:

      I am coming around to this theory of late myself.

    • mimif says:

      And Robert and Ned didn’t know (obviously)? But why would it matter if he was a Baratheon?

    • paola says:

      No it can’t be.
      If Jon is the son of Robert Baratheon and Lyanna Stark, Robert would have kept him and raised him because he was with Lyanna before he was with Cersei. The whole point of Jon Snow is being a bastard and that’s why Ned kept him and raised him along with his other 5 children. All the mistery around his story tells me that Jon is a Stark and Targaryen. It makes perfect sense because he is the one who ( I presume) will moderate the Icy north ( White walkers) and the Firey south (Targaryen).
      Also i believe that In the Starks veins runs some White walkers blood. The Starks don’t feel the cold even in the coldest times and in the past they probably mixed their blood marrying each other.

      • mimif says:

        You sound completely insane and I love it.

      • paola says:

        I am afraid of myself. I truly am.

      • mimif says:

        I know. My bf is afraid of us both.

      • Bridget says:

        Plus, the whole point is that Rhaegar’s kidnapping of Lyanna set in motion this whole sequence of events – Robert would never have taken down the Targaryen’s, Dany would never have been exiled, she would never have found the dragons, and more importantly, Robert and Lyanna were already engaged. They would have just gotten married early.

      • paola says:

        Exactly Bridget. Now I’m scared of you too. :D

      • Bridget says:

        And this is just scratching the surface!

      • jc126 says:

        I am not sure about the Starks having White Walker blood – can someone point me to the source for this? I thought they had some of the blood of the First Men. I didn’t think the White Walkers could reproduce with humans but it’s impossible to remember every detail, to say the least, ha ha.

      • becks says:

        Paola, interesting theory about the Starks and white walkers! And I do believe that Jon is the embodiment of fire and ice.

      • Liv says:

        Yep, I agree. Jon Snow is the key – he’s both, ice (Stark) and fire (Targaryen), so he must be the key figure of the story (Song of ice and fire).

        I wonder what Tyrion’s role is in all that. He’s a Lennister, but what about Cersei and Jaime? Is it true that their father was also a Targaryen?

      • paola says:

        I didn’t come up with it though!
        mimif gave me a link to a website where every theory is well explained and after reading that i couldn’t agree more with this dude’s opinions.

        here’s the link:
        http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/23p48r/the_true_nature_and_purpose_of_the_others_and_the/

      • mimif says:

        There goes the neighborhood!

        There is also a rumor that Aerys fathered Tyrion, so there’s your third dragon head, Lilac. ;)

      • Size Does Matter says:

        Jon has to be part Stark or he couldn’t have a dire wolf.

      • paola says:

        Lyanna Stark is his mother.

      • becks says:

        I don’t think Tywin Lannister is Tyrion’s real father.

      • Liv says:

        I thought Tywins sister told him once that he only got one son – and I assumed she was talking about Tyrion, because his father hated him so much. His mother apparently cheated with a Targaryan. Also Jaime and Cersei look more like Targaryens with their blonde hair – and the twist that their children would be legitimate then, because the Targaryens always marry their siblings, would be amazing. ;-)

      • Bridget says:

        I didn’t want to be the one that brought up the Tyrion theory (just so I didnt accidentally ruin it!) But there’s a lot of very compelling evidence. The break between Tywin and Aerys was over Tywin’s wife Joanna, and literally Tywin’s last words to Tyrion were “youare no son of mine”.

      • becks says:

        Yup….the mad king (Aerys) was infatuated with Joanna (Tyrion’s mother). It’s a crazy theory, but very possible. Tyrion might possibly be the third dragon rider.

      • paola says:

        I always thought that Tywin didn’t want anything to do with Tyrion because he ‘killed’ his wife.
        But this makes sense. I remember a scene though were Tywin says that Tyrion is a Lannister and he’d be treated as one.

      • Bridget says:

        It was a smart way of covering it (if this is true). We already knew that Tywin was bitter about Tyrion and didn’t really think twice about it, especially with how sparsely they discussed Tywin’s original stint as the Hand of the King. Because Tywin loathed Tyrion. Utterly loathed him. It actually fits better this way – not only did his wife die in childbirth (with a disabled son no less) but died giving birth to another man’s child.

      • paola says:

        If Tyrion was a Targaryen than he would be.. what? Danaerys’ nephew? Cousin?
        I’m lost.
        I can feel a question mark lingering over my head.

      • Bridget says:

        He would be Dany’s brother. Rhaegar, Viserys, and Daenarys were siblings (the children of Aerys). Aegon was Rhaegar’s son (and therefore Daenarys’ nephew).

      • paola says:

        Ok thanks for the clarification.
        I’m not digging this theory though.
        I like Tyrion to be a Targaryen and be the only poritive thing about that family.

        Do you think the 3rd prophecy from Maggy the frog to Cersei will be shown in the tv show? I still don’t know who is the valanqar.

      • mimif says:

        Can we all meet for Comet Sophie’s somewhere? I feel like we are about to break the Internet.

      • paola says:

        Ahah I want to break the internet. Kim Kardashian usually breaks it sitting on it but we geeks do it with the power of words.
        I am available any time. I’ll quit my job if necessary.
        :D

      • Bridget says:

        GRRM better come up with something awesome to live up to our theories.

  8. Abbott says:

    Aw man, Kit is such a freshman at Game of Thrones. How can you be on the Jon Snow Wall Sadventure for this long and not know who his real parents are?!?? It’s arguably one of the biggest plot points out there that everyone agrees on (Read: Reddit).

    Pull it together, Harington. You’re giving me a contact sad with your know nothingness.

    • Bridget says:

      The story doesn’t make sense otherwise. But then again, don’t all the GOT cast members say something similar?

      • Abbott says:

        Do you think GRRM told Kit Jon’s whole story? I dunno if I’d trust him with that information.

      • Bridget says:

        No way. He pretty much had to be forced to tell Weiss and Benioff. But I think most of the cast has avoided reading the books, and none of them appear to be interested in any close examination of the plot. ETA: just saw someone upthread said he’s actually read the books.

        Confession: I’ve had a really hard time watching the series after reading the last book (it’s turning into a slog and kind of a downer) but I’m going to have to pick it back up now thay they’re forging ahead of the books. It surprisingly doesnt bug me at all, either.

      • mimif says:

        @Bridget, I said this yesterday, but I listened to the books so I tuned a lot of stuff out. This season is doing it for me tho, especially since the producers know the ending. I think they’re cutting a lot of bullshit filler out and getting to the nitty gritty.

      • Bridget says:

        Those last 2 books were a chore.

    • paola says:

      I rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself a migraine.
      even I know who his parents are!! Come on Kit Pull it together!
      Yesterday I was praising you so much..don’t ruin it for me!! You can’t be Lord Commander and come up with the idea Ned Stark is your father at the same time.

      You know nothing Kit Harington.

      • Abbott says:

        Maybe in the next installment of ‘Kit Harington Says Words’ he’ll blow us away with some insider knowledge about the crypts at Winterfell or something (Probably not).

      • paola says:

        At this point I’m not even sure he is aware of what’s happening around him.
        Maybe he thinks he’s in Hodor’s dream.

        Hey! Now that comes to mind.. where the heck is Hodor??

      • mimif says:

        HODOR! Paola, you sound as fussy as Ygritte right now. 😛

        @Abot, you really did read all the theories, yay! Not enough tinfoil in the world for us right now.

      • paola says:

        HODOR!

        I just hope that in the end the story will NOT be just one of HODOR’s dream.
        If that’s the case you’ll see me hunting down GG Martin soon enough.

      • mimif says:

        *dead* Best fan ending EVER and I’m sticking with it.

      • paola says:

        NO way!
        I will never accept that.
        All this has to happen for real! for REAL!!
        *ignores the fact that the whole lot is fan fiction and none of this really exists in real life*

    • epiphany says:

      He’s read all the books, and he knows the guy who wrote them – he knows much more than we do – think of the trouble he would be in if he gave everything away. He’s just being coy.

      • Paleokifaru says:

        Perhaps it’s his bad acting but he comes off more obtuse than coy.

      • Bridget says:

        You really think GRRM is telling the actors what happens?

      • khaveman says:

        KH has said he read the books, so he’s being coy. :) And he has gotten into hot water saying things to the press, so there goes any trust between the two. Coy.

  9. mari says:

    Gag. He’s totally ruined Jon Snow for me. I really like(d) the character in the books and watching the show and Kit Harrington’s milquetoast mug irritates me to no end!

    • EM says:

      I feel the same way about the actress who plays Sansa Stark. She really gives me the sh!ts.

      • jc126 says:

        Poor Sansa. She’s so tragic – like to the point where I get angry reading/watching her scenes – and yet simultaneously dull. I wish she’d just find love with some peasant, in a way.

  10. Fonzieface says:

    “Celebitchy Presents: Kit Harington Says Words” this had me laughing so hard for so long that I think I blew some stitches…

    • I Choose Me says:

      Me too. Except for the stitches part. I think I farted a couple of times though. Good thing I’m alone in the office today.

  11. EM says:

    I’m beginning to think his father is going to end up being Rhaegar Targaryen and his mother Ned’s sister, which probably seems idiotic, but hey, it’s Game of Thrones and anything is possible.

    • mimif says:

      That’s not idiotic at all, that is actually the number one theory about Jon’s parentage.

    • jugstorecowboy says:

      From the beginning, the books completely support this theory. I’m a season behind on the show, but still haven’t seen any hints of it in the show.

  12. Morse0412 says:

    My boyfriend is utterly obsessed and I do enjoy the show and I think Kit isnt allowed to give his own theories due to how much insider knowledge he has. I know GRRM had to reveal the ending to HBO just incase something happens before the book series is completed. I think Kit knows who Jon’s parents are but how could he possibly be allowed to comment. If he said anything other than what is already known in the series people would take his words as almost law. IDK if im making any sense, hopefully I am.

    • jc126 says:

      I bet the actors don’t know yet, just David Benioff and the other writer/producer, whose name escapes me.

  13. lila fowler says:

    Are he and Rose Leslie still going out?

  14. jc126 says:

    I would endorse having daily Kit Harington stories. Featuring words he says, or not, I could stare at him all day.
    I think if Jon Snow’s character wasn’t in it until the end, I wouldn’t care as much about the books and show. He is by far my favorite and not just because Kit H. is so hot.
    ETA – I cannot fathom how GRRM will finish this story in 1 or 2 more books. Not with the way the first 5 were written.

  15. shizwhat says:

    My theory has always been that Dany and Jon are brother and sister, probably twins… of Stark/Targaryen blood (Lyana and Rhaegar.) Jon is not just “fire and ice” but Jon and Dany are literally “fire” and “ice.” It’s THEIR song.

    • Lilix40 says:

      Now that’s an interesting twist!

    • Abbott says:

      Ooooo That’s interesting!

    • paola says:

      I think Jon is way older than Danaerys though. In the books Danaerys is about 14 now and Jon 19 or so.

    • littlestar says:

      THAT is exactly what I believe too!!!!!!!!!!!! They are such polar opposites that somehow they have to go/belong together (whether twins, half sister and half brother, maybe possibly marriage?). Jon is dark looking and in a cold climate, Dany is light looking and in a warm climate. And opposites ATTRACT!!!

    • Caz says:

      I’m on this train of thought too.

      All of the characters would know their endings…they’d never be allowed to talk about it though.

      My boyfriend is only mid way through Season 2. I can’t talk to him about a damn thing about it yet!

  16. mimif says:

    And with that, this is the number one story commented on today. Good job, fellow geeks!

    • paola says:

      I’m very proud of us.

    • Size Does Matter says:

      Okay, so can us geeks please recap what we’ve concluded here today?

      Jon is not part Baratheon. He’s probably R+L=J and one of the three dragon riders. Ice dragon, maybe. Dany is another dragon rider. Third rider? Maybe Aegon (so far missing from TV) or maybe a bastard child of the mad king who doesn’t know it yet. And Aegon may be a Blackfyre fake in the books, so maybe “third rider” is both.

      Show Jon may not have done the deed with Ygritte, but book Jon totally did.

      Benjen Stark is NOT Coldhands. Three-Eyed Raven = some old Targaryen waiting around to help Bran.

      Others = White Walkers. They bring the cold. Was the wall built to keep them out of the south? Or to keep regular humans out of the north? We don’t know.

      Wargs = skinchangers. White walkers can warg corpses into zombie ice soldiers. Jon, Bran, Arya can warg.

      • mimif says:

        *dons Size with most improved GOT geek medal* Seriously, nice job.

        Ice dragon is something I keep throwing out there just for fun, because ICE DRAGON. Also, just to really f-ck everyone up, the crypt of Winterfell contains the Queen Other, who is going to warg into Lyanna’s dead body, or perhaps take her body, and then totally hook up with Jon. The End.

      • paola says:

        And Hodor wakes up and he is the true King on the Iron throne. And Cersei is his wench bitch.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        Awe, shucks! I’m happy to have you all to discuss this stuff with. My husband hasn’t read the books or any fan sites.

        There is another GRRM book called the Ice Dragon, but I haven’t read it. And I don’t know if it is a Westeros ice dragon or completely unrelated.

      • Abbott says:

        mimif but that’d be his unMom or something, right? Ew.

      • Miss Melissa says:

        Here’s my theory on Aegon: they are dropping the entire Tyrion journey to Dany plot from the book. What they’ve done is shortened it and eliminated the scenario which introduces Aegon. And no one has been cast in the role, have they?

        I think that decision by the producers should tell us something about his legitimacy right there.

      • Bridget says:

        Go us!

        So here’s something to ponder: Howland Reed was so trusted and close to Ned Stark that he helped take on 3 Kingsguard to get Lyanna back. But where is he now? Why did he only send his children to be a part of the fight? I’veonly read one pretty far-fetched theory, but he’s going to have to pop back up in the story to finally explain what happened at Lyanna’s death bed.

      • paola says:

        The secret Ned took in his grave about Lyanna has to come out at some point.

      • mimif says:

        @Abot YES, someone called it/her the Mombie on Reddit and I seriously almost wet my pants.
        @Bridget, commented downthread on Howland Reed, please advise.
        @Melissa, but isn’t Tyrion on his way to Dany right now?
        @paola, agreed especially as it’s one of the most important twist of the whole series IMO. If not the most important.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        @Bridget – good question. I have read no theories on Howland Reed. I always assumed he was just hanging out in the crannogs, which IIRC are supposed to be basically impossible to penetrate. Jon’s parentage has to be revealed somehow. Bran flashback thru weirwood? Do they even have a weirwood near the Tower of Joy where Jon’s birth could be witnessed (assuming it happened there). Or return of Howland Reed?

        Reading up thread re: Aerys fathering any of the supposed children of Tywin. I’ve always thought the twins were the more likely candidates. Cersei is somewhat mad, the twins are into incest like Targs, the reference by Ser Barristan to liberties taken during the bedding part of marriage ceremony, and Tyrion has the Lannister-style name (Ty). Maybe Jaime is the third rider?

      • Lilix40 says:

        Ladies, one serious question regarding Jon Snow’s parentage. I believe it is certain he is a Stark, and most likely Lyanna’s son. But if he were Rhaegar’s bastard, wouldn’t he have some Targaryen trait? If you look at the Targaryen family tree, there was some genetic input from other families, which did not dilute their distinctive white hair and violet eye (I believe that’s the correct color scheme, correct me if I am wrong). I always assumed that was a dominant trait.

        If you look at the Stark children, however, you might assume Stark features are not that dominant at all, as they have mixed Stark/Tully physical traits (except Arya, I think).

        Is it possible to be a Targaryen and look 1000% like a Stark? I am honestly confused.

      • mimif says:

        @Lily, it was said a few times in the books that Arya very much favored Lyanna in looks and that Arya & Jon looked similar. I believe Ned said this but I have officially lost all articulation because this is about my 100th post here today. :D

      • paola says:

        @Lily
        How can we know?
        Targaryen kept inbreeding for centuries and they all kept having silver hair and purple eyes.
        God knows what could come up if you mixed a dark haired woman with brown eyes with a silver haired man with purple eyes.
        Maybe nature couldn’t wait to get in and change the course of things color-wise.
        Genetics is always a bitch.

      • Lilix40 says:

        @mimif, @paola, @Paleokifaru:

        Nah, that’s probably it. Indeed, they inbred so much that one wedding out of the family wouldn’t do much to dissolve Targaryen features, you are right. I thought their genetics was akin to the Baratheon’s (that whole the seed is strong thing).

        One more question: I haven’t read the books yet, but I did read somewhere (AWOIAF, I guess) that Lyanna’s kidnapping might not have been an actual kidnapping, that she might have gone away with/to Rhaegar willfully. Does that make any sense?

      • Bridget says:

        Lilix40: YES that is definitely possible. Rhaegar was dashing, and the only reason why folks were willing to put up with mad king Aerys was because Rhaegar was going to make a fine king. If you aren’t familiar with it, Rhaegar was a scholar as a young man – he was constantly reading and not particularly into the martial side of things. One day after reading an obscure text he just put away the books, went out to the martialing yard and essentially said “Okay, I am supposed to learn how to fight” (pardon my paraphrasing, hopefully you get the gist). There’s very little written about Rhaegar and Lyanna, but while it’s made clear that Rhaegar was besotted with Lyanna, it’s very subtley implied that Lyanna ran off with him.

      • mimif says:

        Excellent point, Bridget. That text he read that changed him is the whole basis behind why he possibly kidnapped/ran off with Lyanna. Almost as if he knew what was going to happen (prophecy) and decided to do something about it. Like make an ice/fire baby with a Stark that will save the worrrrld!

      • Bridget says:

        The flashback is really the best evidence: Lyanna tearing up over Rhaegar’s song, him crowning her queen of love and beauty over his wife, and her holding those same type winter roses when she died. She definitely wasn’t in love with Robert, who was essentially the one that declared her kidnapped and assaulted. And Rhaegar was dashing and handsome and was drawn to her (was the wolf maiden a part of his prophecy? We dont know) and Lyanna had her share of the wolf’s blood.

      • Miss Melissa says:

        Mimif… I don’t want to give away too much, but they are getting him to Dany’s country in a different way than they do in the books. And that takes out the Aegon storyline.

        If Aegon is the third head, why would the series omit him?

      • Lilix40 says:

        Jesus, what a mess. Poor Elia. Thanks for the info, Bridget, mimif and Miss Melissa!

    • paola says:

      Geeks in the realm this is me now leaving.
      Speak tomorrow (probably later) on another GoT post.
      Kaiser I believe in you. All we need is a teeny tiny input…we’ll do the rest.

      • mimif says:

        HODOR!

      • Paleokifaru says:

        Lilix40 the Targaryens married each other, typically siblings, so there traits wouldn’t necessarily be dominant. It would just be people with the same recessive traits having 100% probabilities of passing those on.

  17. Amy says:

    They probably avoided the term The others because that term is heavily associated with Lost, referring to the inhabitants of the island before the plane crashed. I also don’t remember the Others being used in the books but it’s been awhile since I’ve read them. I just remember wights.

    And I don’t believe Jon is Rhaegar or Lyanna’s son. Doesn’t Ned come back with Jon from some war campaign way after Lyanna and Rhaegar are killed? Anyways Jon is not the lost Targaryen to the throne. That comes up in later books and it is not Jon (sorry!). I’m not sure whether they will get to it this season since they have been deviating from the books this season or they may eliminate the character altogether (kind of like how they got rid of Princess Arianne in Dorne, King Doran Martell’s daughter and Oberyn Martell’s niece).

    • Miss Melissa says:

      Lyanna on her deathbed made Ned promise, promise, promise to keep her secret. And then came home with baby Jon.

      Even Robert didn’t know anything about it, and in the GOT book he asks Ned about Jon’s mother.

    • Bridget says:

      You’re assuming that Aegon’s presence immediately rules out Jon, which isn’t necessarily true. We don’t actually know if Aegon is really who he thinks he is. Also, all allusions to Jon’s birth and Lyanna’s death have been deliberately hazy in the books. GRRM has yet to fully portray what happened between Ned (with Howland Reed in tow) and the 3 remaining Kingsguard.

      Speaking of which, is anyone familiar with the Howland Reed theory?

      • Wren33 says:

        No. Do tell!

      • Miss Melissa says:

        Hadn’t heard of it until your mentioned it. Just looked it up. Very interesting.

        He needs to publish that book!

      • mimif says:

        Yasss! Two things: does HR have Children of The Forest blood in his family (like Targ dragon blood and Stark Other blood, etc.) and is HR the High Sparrow?!

      • Bridget says:

        He’s gotta be somewhere. WHY couldn’t GRRM have talked less about Tyrion’s stupid trip or wasted all that time with Quentyn and just gotten on with the story?

      • paola says:

        I’m sure he’ll come back when one of the Stark kids will be in great danger. he is hiding somewhere. he’ll come out eventually.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        Re: High Sparrow. In book 5 Dany asks Ser Barristan if Rhaegar married for love. SB basically says no. Rhaegar was fond of Elia, Elia find of someone who became very pious after her marriage and death. I think that guy is the high sparrow and he totally has it out for the Lannisters since they’re responsible for the death of his love, Elia.

      • Bridget says:

        Paola: he has to be hiding somewhere!

        @size: Am I remembering correctly that Elia was way more into Rhaegar than he was in to her?

      • paola says:

        Honestly I have no idea how GG Martin manages all these information.
        This story is so freakin’ complicated and with so many layers and generations that I am amazed and gobsmacked at the same time.
        How does he do this???

      • Size Does Matter says:

        @bridget – I believe you’re right, Elia was way more into Rhaegar than Rhaegar was in to her. But I got the impression she was kind of a frail, weak person, not his type. And apparently everyone in the kingdom wanted a piece of Rhaegar, including his “companion,” John Connington a/k/a Griff.

      • mimif says:

        GRRM has to be a savant, there is no other way.

      • paola says:

        I think he is Master of Nerds from Incestrly Rock.
        He likes the ‘incest’ subject a bit too much for my liking.

      • mimif says:

        Think about the Russian dynasty tho, same thing. I think he just has a really good knack for dipping into horrible historical happenings (how’s that for alliteration?), because all that nasty shit went down for reals back in the day. And lol at Incestrly Rock.

      • paola says:

        yeah i know but it is still super gross.
        Just at the thought of having sex with my brother I feel my vagina packing up and leaving for good.

      • mimif says:

        Can I have sex with your brother? Although now we are GOT sisters so that might be gross too. Lol I gotta quit commenting, I’ve totally lost it.

      • paola says:

        I’ve got two brothers. You’re more than welcome.
        They might do with learning some english and you seem like a good teacher :D

      • mimif says:

        Lolz, I love Italy, it’s my fave & would love to learn Italian. Your English is awesome, btw. *books ticket for paola’s brothers*

      • paola says:

        Thank you but I cheated!
        I have been in the States for a long time and now I live between the Uk and Florence so I get better and better every passing day.
        And you’re awesome by the way.
        My brothers are not as clever as me..but they do their best :D

      • Bridget says:

        @size: you’re right! She was of delicate health.

      • Bridget says:

        @size: You’re also right, that whole Jon Connington thing was weird. I’m assuming unrequited love?

    • Lilacflowers says:

      Sigh! The dragon has three heads. Danerys is one. Aemon and Bryndon aren’t going to be riding dragons anytime soon since the former is 100 and something years old, blind, and sworn to the Wall and the latter has turned into a tree. Martin introduced a possible second ( a new character not yet on the show) in Book Five. Unlikely that he would introduce the third as a new character in the remaining books – the book fandom would rise up and hunt him down like a direwolf after Joffrey. So, it has to be somebody we already know.

      While the Baratheons insist that Rhaegor kidnapped and raped and unwilling Lyanna; the Martells have a very different view of her: believing that she lured him away from Elia and ran off with him willingly.

      Ned never expressed an opinion about what happened to his sister either way, but he swore to keep her “secret” and he has never revealed who Jon’s mother is, not even to Jon.

  18. Bridget says:

    Wow, we really went Full Nerd today.

    • Size Does Matter says:

      The day’s not over!!! Aaaaand, the night is dark and full of nerds!

    • paola says:

      My god you’re so right.
      I feel dizzy from all the thinking. I’ve been reading posts on english and italian forums all day long. I’m supposed to be sick so I didn’t go to work today ( I went out for pizza though. You’re never too sick for pizza. at least not me) but tomorrow I’ll be working and if there’s another GoT post I’m screwed.!

      so… is the Valanqar of Cersei’s 3rd prophecy the Hound??

      • mimif says:

        If there’s another GOT post tomorrow, I’m going to have to change my internet plan to Full Nerd.

      • paola says:

        ahah!
        mimif you crack me up!
        I think we’ve covered most of the subject though.
        Now.. if GRRM would crack on with the writing instead of wasting time on Instagram it would be amazing.

      • mimif says:

        I know, I was thinking we might have covered all the bases!! how will we entertain ourselves now?
        *skips off to reddit to find more crackpot theories*

      • paola says:

        We’ll have new material to discuss endlessly after the sunday episode.
        Which I have already seen and I’m dying to talk about it. sunday can’t come soon enough.

      • mimif says:

        I might watch it tonight, if I can find it. Then we’ll have to find a stupid post to discuss it under, like Hilary Duff or something. Somewhere where we can go Full Batch but not upset the regulars.

      • paola says:

        Poor Hilary Duff. She’s on Tinder now, at least we waste our time in a constructive way.
        PAmela Anderson got 17 comments today.
        I’ll look for you on the stupidest post :D
        I’ll have to discuss it with you tomorrow.. it’s almost 1am here.
        Are you sure you want to watch it though?? You’ll have nothing to do on Sunday night!!

      • mimif says:

        I’ll watch it again! I’ve watched last week’s like 4 times already (nerd who can’t remember shit, bad combo). Okay looking for you tomorrow and Buona notte, paola! Did I say that right?

      • paola says:

        I keep watching the 3rd and 4th episode. there’s always something i end up missing!!
        Yes you said it perfectly!!
        Buona notte anche a te :D

      • Bridget says:

        It is truly amazing what kind of hole you can fall down with this stuff. Have you guys gone to the big fan forums? It’s crazy! And I have some show watching to do!

      • Bridget says:

        I need to catch up on my GoT TV show. It’s on the list of things to do this weekend! There’s a giant bottle of wine, some cheetos, and HBO Go with my name on it.

        And this thread has cracked me up.

      • mimif says:

        @Bridget, I’m glad you and Lilac are here to be the voice of reasons to buffer the tin foil insanity that paola and I are spreading. Catch up on the show so we can drop more bombs!

      • Bridget says:

        Mimif: fortunately, I don’t mind show spoilers :)

      • paola says:

        Reason has left my body. I need help. Clearly.

  19. M.A.F. says:

    Alright, someone in this post needs to create a cheat sheet because starting somewhere around post #6 I got left behind. Who the heck is Illyrio? Aegon? AHHHH!

    • mimif says:

      I could actually link a PDF right now, but I’m afraid that would tip the nerd scale on an already completely geeked out thread. ;)

    • Lucrezia says:

      Do you mean Aegon Targaryen I, II, III, IV, V, or one of the 6 others who are simply called Aegon Targaryen?

      I read with my phone near me so I can check the wikis.

    • Lilacflowers says:

      Illyrio Mopatis?

  20. Size Does Matter says:

    I doubt anyone will read this at this point, but I dub us House Celebitchus. We need a sigil and words. And a daily open forum to play in. Otherwise we should all shout HODOR in every Kardashian post and refuse to say anything else.

    • mimif says:

      HODOR!

    • Bridget says:

      Hodor!

    • Lucrezia says:

      Hodor!

      Sigil: orange female dog on a green field? Maybe something like this: http://www.heraldicclipart.com/catalog/dog-sejant-with-ball.gif

      House words are obviously “escapism can be smart”. Which kinda makes it sound like we’re cowards, but I’m fine with that. If Winter is coming, you’ll find me hiding in bed with some hot chocolate and marshmallows.

      • Lucrezia says:

        * meant to add that the dog sigil should involve an arc of dark-grey/black stars. (I’m not sure if I’d call the CB logo green/grey or green/black. That’s the colour I mean anyway.)

        Not sure how to make a dog that’s sitting down look obviously female. Perhaps painted claws? Bit of bling on the collar?

      • mimif says:

        Lolz I love it, Lucrezia. Awooooooo!

    • Size Does Matter says:

      I love you guys, seriously. Who else can help me not feel like a crazy person for waking up at 4:30 in the morning worried about how Jon Snow can be legitimized?

      Re: sigil. Maybe a tinfoil hat on a field of popcorn?

      And yes, I have the authority to dub us House Celebitchus. I’m the third rider. But unfortunately the only things from the book I care to ride are dead – Khal Drogo and pre-beheading Ned Stark. Sads.

      • mimif says:

        Ha, tin foil hat sigil, you’re killing me. Who is left alive that would know Jon’s true parentage?? MAKE IT STOP.

    • Caz says:

      House Celebitchus :) And so say we all.

  21. paola says:

    HODOR!
    My favorite character still remains Ned Stark.

    • mimif says:

      Me too. Even tho I knew it was coming, I screamed when I watched the show. HODOR!

    • paola says:

      He was kinda hot too. Runner up Robb Stark.

      • mimif says:

        I love Sean Bean’s face, even when he’s all greasy and puffed out. Because obviously, I am gross. Robb is so pretty, no? Nice guy too. Sigh. I won’t mention Drogo because I know you still miss him.

      • paola says:

        Of course I still miss Drogo. Who doesn’t!!!
        Robb was really hot in GoT but then I saw him alive and well in Cinderella and his too tight-pants-on-crotch-area put me off for good.
        I was embarassed for him. i mean.. they were really too tight.

        Sean Bean was/is/will be a hottie. There’s no woman in the United Kingdom from age 5 to 95 that doesn’t have a crush on him.

      • mimif says:

        Oh! Speaking of, how awesome that you get to spend your time between the UK & Florence. I was a nanny for three months, Italy and the UK being one of our destinations and Florence in the spring was definitely one of the highlights of my life. I seriously dreamed of running away or getting kidnapped so I would never have to go home.
        Also, WHERE IS GENDRY?

        *runs off to look at Robb’s crotch*

      • paola says:

        I know.. spring is the best season! But in the past few years all it does is rain from april to June. I can’t stand the summer though.. too hot and humid. You’re welcome here any time :)
        If you on the other side want to have sex with my brother ( you pick the one) they both live in Rome. So.. you’re settled for the summer holidays.
        eheheh

        Gendry?
        Told you. He’s practising for his role for ‘Life of Pi 2′.

        Honestly a 60 minutes episode cannot cover all the stories, the sub plots, the depth and the variety of characters. Producers should really reconsider the lenght of every episode.

      • mimif says:

        Haha I forgot about Life of Pi! It feels like oceans of time have passed since that convo (what was it, last week?). I’m taking both brothers, although Rome in summer time sounds…hot and touristy and IM NOT LEAVING TIL THIS GETS 300 comments.

      • paola says:

        well my older brother lives in a house practically on the beach so you’re sorted.
        And when you’re tired of him ( he can be a pain in the ass) you can come to Florence to see your sis.
        I am so lame I know.

        You know we could make it to 400 in no time ;)

        did you check out robb’s crotch?

      • mimif says:

        What…how…WHY? That’s like…a medical condition, right? I can’t stop looking, poala! I feel like we need to start a band and call it Robb Stark’s Crotch.

      • paola says:

        Seriously..How is that not distracting!!! I swear to god i was embarassed for him.
        http://advancedgraphics.com/product/prince-charming-disney-movie-cinderella/

        You know.. if the jacket was a tiny bit longer it would have been not good but at least better. That is the male version of a camel toe.

        The name of the band sounds awesome!!

      • mimif says:

        Lmao I just posted the same thing over in ‘links’. Maybe it was to compensate for photoshopping the shit out of Cinderella’s waist? Or maybe Robb’s junk is so ginormous he needed a huge cup to make it work with the jodhpurs. I must get to the bottom of this immediately. HODOR!

        😂😂😂 I did this for (because of) you:

        https://instagram.com/p/2HcxlfPC2B/

      • paola says:

        I’ll immediately stalk you on Instagram!! :D

        that bulge will give me nightmares tonight. I forgot all about it and now is printed in my brain forever.
        I need brain bleach.

      • mimif says:

        You’ll be sorry, paola. It’s just my burner account for CB, but I’m going to take it to the next level and…

      • paola says:

        Your dedication to this site is admirable ;)

      • mimif says:

        *criminal. There, I fixed it for you. ;)

  22. Janet R says:

    Best comments ever! Some of you might want to check out the podcast “Game of Owns” wonderful for those of us who enjoy to think about, talk about, dream about GOT/ASOIAF. I highly recommend it.