#KimDavis’ mug shot released.
Full updates on today’s developments: http://t.co/BRWb8CfLLE pic.twitter.com/ysz235kYlv
— Mashable (@mashable) September 3, 2015
You’re looking at the booking photo of Kim Davis, the county clerk of Rowan County, Kentucky. Davis’ story has been percolating and growing steam over the past few months. You see, when the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage in all fifty states, that meant gay couples could get married. Everywhere. In every city, town and county in America. Some people had a problem with this. One of those people? Kim Davis. Ever since the SCOTUS decision, Davis has refused to issue any marriage licenses (to gay or straight couples) because she says gay marriage violates her religious beliefs. Nevermind that she’s a county employee and it is her legal obligation to follow the law.
Davis’s case was taken up by the obvious anti-LGBTQ groups that wanted to make this some kind of test case for their new “equality restricts my religious freedom to be a bigot” argument. Keep in mind, no one is saying that every single American’s heart and mind needs to be pro-LGBTQ. If you want to hate, go on and hate. But if you have a civil service job, you have to follow the law. Davis’s case made its way through the court system and they even tried to get SCOTUS to chime in on it, and SCOTUS was all “nope” and “this is for the lower courts.” So yesterday, Kim Davis went into federal court and instead of just handing down fines and penalties for not doing her job, the judge sent Kim Davis to JAIL. The judge even brought in all of the county clerk deputies and asked them if they would be willing to issue licenses now that their boss is in jail and five out of the six of them were like “Um, sure!”
And in case you think Kim Davis is some poor, Christian martyr who truly believes that gay marriage will destroy all that is good and pure about the institution of marriage, take a look at this:
Ya don't say. #KimDavis #DoYourJob http://t.co/NgGeAOVls7 pic.twitter.com/BpdMGPQLzj
— eddie outlaw (@TheEddieOutlaw) September 2, 2015
That’s all true. She’s been divorced three times and she’s on her fourth marriage. She cheated on her first husband. Maybe her messy marriage record was a pre-emptive mess because she knew one day the institution of marriage would be destroyed by LGBTQ people. I have to wonder… was this really the best “test case” for the “religious freedom” crowd? Because it seems like you put money on the wrong horse.
As you can imagine, the GOP presidential hopefuls have been saying a lot of words about Kim Davis – you can read some of their statements here. It’s all pretty funny.
The pop culture moment has been brought to you by #LMAO and #ByeFelicia.
Photos courtesy of Getty, Twitter.
Separation of church and state. If your government related job duties differ from your religious beliefs to the point you can’t perform them, get another job.
Yep.
If she worked at WalMart or so “religious” ChickFil A, what would THEY do if she refused to do her job?
Yes, correct, they’d fire her ass. The most “conservative” or “Christian” businesses don’t let employees dictate what they’ll do and not do.
Same with govt. empoloyees.
She’ll be out soon, I’m sure — she won’t wanta be in there forever.
It is a simple as this.
EXACTLY!
I’m delighted the judge chose jail – except now she’ll be a right wing nut job martyr, and set up a GoFundMe account and make millions. Blerg.
Apparently you can’t “fire” elected officials. So how do you get rid of incompetent people?
impeach or recall.
Impeachment. But the Kentucky state legislature has to do that, and are so far unwilling to proceed. However, the deputy county clerks can pretty much run the office while she sits in jail.
Actually, the great news is, thanks to GoFundMe’s new policies, she can’t benefit from the nutters. http://uproxx.com/media/2015/09/kim-davis-gofundme/
GreenBunny, thanks for the link. that is GREAT news as I’m sure she was hoping to get some of that sweet sweet bigot cash.
She will get paid to do a slew of interviews. She sill write a book. They will make a TV movie about her life. She will become a post girl for all of those who are against Gay Marriage. We have not seen the end of her.
That’s what I think too. She’s doing this to become a right wing martyr and make a lot of money out of books and interviews.
The couple suing her should seek her post jail earnings. Or forbid her from earning money from this, as they do with other criminals.
She can be moved into a different position I would imagine. Legally if she does not do her job as stated in her job description, I (think( she could be fired. Also now she has been arrested and sent to jail, here in Canada that record would be enough that she would not be hired. So, that is my 2 cents worth. She is not a poor pious woman, I find her to be a hypocrite.
Belle Epoch –
If we could get rid of incompetent people in government, do you really think we’d have any of those positions filled? [/cynic]
I have always thought this was simply about coin & how to get some. By way of book deal, media tour etc. Freedom of religion simply means you are free to chose what you believe. It doesn’t not give you the right to use your freely chosen belief & bludgeon others with it.
This is a case of religious IMPOSITION. She is imposing her beliefs on an entire county. She is behaving in the least Christian (christ like) way possible & in the process holding an entire county hostage. If you don’t wish to do your job, resign. To think your signature on a marriage license states your “acceptance” or “permission” is beyond egregious
she may get millions in her gofund me, but that’s millions those whose civil rights she violated can sue her to get
wonder how all these folks supporting her right to “religious freedom” would feel if the person in question was a Muslim who worked at the DMV and refused to issue licenses to women because of religious beliefs.
or a Quaker clerk who refused to issue hunting licenses because of pacifism…
or a Christian Scientist who worked as a pharmacist and refused to fill ANY prescriptions? (I know, not a great example, but still…)
NO ONE is preventing her “religious freedom”. she’s free to practice her F-ED up version of her religion. what is happening is that people are trying to prevent her from forcing the rest of us to live by her religion’s rules. the folks that claim otherwise have it completely backwards. OUR religious freedom is under fire, not hers.
Exactly. Anytime someone says the US is a Christian nation and must live by those laws, I want to ask them how they would feel if Christians were the minority and forced to live under another religions laws.
If this woman wants to cry about the sanctity of marriage while searching for hisband number five, I don’t care. But she has to do her job according to the law, or resign if it conflicts with her beliefs.
Not to derail from the conversation but Muslim women aren’t religiously prohibited from driving. Saudi women, on the other hand, are based on the laws of their land.
But i get your point.
The “Christian nation” people drive me bonkers. They have yet to show me where “Christ” is referenced in the Constitution.
@Doofus-Totally. Couldn’t have said it better.
@lilacflowers-True but separation of Church and State is also nowhere in the Constitution.
…but that doesn’t change the fact that the founders wanted to keep religion out of government completely because they knew what happened in 16th century Europe, when millions of Protestants and Catholics killed each other in religious wars. They truly wanted a secular government, one that takes no religious side at all.
This American Life did a great episode called “Godless America” where they discussed how close the Constitution came to NOT being ratified because it was so…well, Godless.
The fight to inject religion into the Constitution didn’t start until the Civil War when Protestant ministers convened conventions to plead to amend the Constitution to put Jesus Christ and Christian government into the preamble to the Constitution.
thanks for the correction tifzlan…
@ Kitten
And those Protestant Civil War-era ministers wanted those amendments in the Constitution because there are passages in the Bible that say that slavery is A-OK, and they thought if they could amend the Constitution they could back-door slavery as the law of land. That’s why every time someone starts spouting off about the Bible in relation to our laws, I remind them that the first argument for that was to preserve slavery. “Are you okay with slavery? Because you’re basically saying you’re pro-slavery,” is what I say to these people, and it shuts them up every time.
My father in law shared some story about her and commented that “She has a constitutional right to refuse.”
No. Dad. No. Pretty much the opposite of what you said.
If you knew him, you wouldn’t even think he could possibly have said that. He *appears* to be a relatively bright guy. And that is what scares me. LOL. The fact that someone who appears to be as reasonable as him could THINK that.
She has the constitutional right to LEAVE her job and choose another job if she objects to issuing licenses for religious reasons.
So much wisdom in your comment, Doofus. When my Jesus freak relatives complain that there should be prayer in public schools, I’m always happy to remind them that Islam is a rapidly growing religion and that I look forward to the day when all our children can listen to the melodious sounds of the Arab call to prayer on their schools’ loud speakers. Somehow, this leads to the astonishing revelation that it’s not “religious freedom” that concerns them so much as “preferential treatment for Christians.”
@kitten, the words “separation of church and state” don’t exist in the Constitution, but it does contain the Establishment Clause, which has always been interpreted to prohibit the government (first federal and then the state’s via the 14th) from enacting laws and policies that prefer one religion (or any religion), and has had the effect of creating a metaphorical wall between the secular/public realm and religious/private realm. It is a big reason there will never be an “official” religion in this allegedly “Christian” nation.
Or in the case of her employees-THEIR right to be able to issue licenses? 5 out of 6 of them (except her son natch) all said they were fine with it. They all said they would do it. The judge gave this idiot a chance to stay out of jail by saying ‘will you let your clerks issue them?’ and she said NO.
So basically no one’s rights matter other than hers. Not co workers. Not people who want to marry. No one.
Or say you were a Fundamentalist Mormon who believed in polygamy. If you were elected clerk could you then issue marriage licenses to polygamist couples? Because your religion trumps the law, right?
@Lilacflowers Yes, exactly. But her personal mistakes are irrelevant here. Her bible is her bible and she doesn’t have to justify her life choices and religious beliefs to anyone, this is personal. Her job duties, on the other hand, are not.
I don’t care about how many husbands she racks up or the adultery, but it does suggest that she doesn’t actually care about following her religion and does not believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think that simply weakens her argument. She can and does degrade marriage, so I have a hard time swallowing the fact that she thinks she is defending it.
I’m not sure she can pick and choose like that. Her religion is also staunchly against divorce as well.
Again, another example of a religion of convenience.
I didn’t bring up her personal mistakes. I brought up her refusal to do her job while accepting tax dollars as her salary
I think it counts. She can’t cite personal beliefs as a reason she isn’t doing her job and expect those personal beliefs not be held up for the hypocrisy they are.
@bluhare: I agree with you. If you saw a pattern of poor decision-making, failure and hypocrisy on someone’s resume, you’d be wise to take their current devotion to being a model employee for your company with a huge grain of salt.
She “found god” 4 years ago which is supposed to make all the sh!te from her past not matter, lol.
ITA. Her job duties are not for her to pick and choose. I had a secretary who did that and it drove me crazy. It wasn’t a religious issue – she was just lazy and didn’t like to do job tasks that she didn’t enjoy.
@Lilacflowers You haven’t, the article has.
@Josephine “suggest that she doesn’t actually care about following her religion and does not believe in the sanctity of marriage” – to an outsider, it is impossible to judge how much she cares. This is personal. Everyone makes mistakes.
@qwerty There is a concept of redemption. To an atheist it is nothing, to a religious person it is worth the world and not something to be ridiculed.
Relationship with God is deeply personal. It is not completely impossible that she made mistakes in her past and regrets them now. God doesn’t read everything like a resume. You don’t have to carry your regrets and failures with you, if you understood your lesson and moved on.
People have right to change and forgive themselves for all the crap they’ve done in their past, and become a better person. I deeply respect those people, more than someone who never slipped up in their life and is so proud of it, he feels he has the right to look down upon them.
Having said all that, I don’t know this woman, just that her spiritual experiences should not be assessed by people, who don’t have much of a relationship to her religion, but know some quotes. The issue here is how well she performed her professional duties and she clearly hasn’t.
@captain
Well, she feels she’s in a position to decide whether people should be married so I feel free to judge her too. And regardless of any redemption she’s got from her god, she’s a sh!t person. Her religion is clearly not working.
And you know, there’s even a quote in the Bible that directs her to do her job: “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.” This is Caesar’s.
Lilacflowers: that was the first thought in my head.
I’m an atheist, but I grew up in religious households. Since they use the bible against us by cherry picking verses, let’s do the same.
@Lilacflowers, LAK: I was also raised in a conservative, religious environment… and, yes, the Game of Dueling Bible Verses is like that chess board that sits on the end table for almost a year. It is never ending, because you can easily find a verse or parable that either condemns, condones or commands almost any sort of behavior known to humans.
When I resisted some of the worst by citing the opposite right back at them, the duel usually ended at two points: either I wasn’t interpreting correctly, or it was a matter of my ‘lack of faith.’ Even as a child, I recognized an indefensible, illogical, intolerant & convenient discussion-stopper when I heard one.
Belle de Jour: there was also the invoking of the wrath of god and or hell’s fire and damnation when I dared refuse to accept the religious indoctrination.
@LAK: oh, yes, I got threatened with eternal damnation, too. And every time there was something like a school bus accident, a woman from church would call my house and remind my parents that had I been in it, I would have gone straight to hell because I hadn’t been baptized yet.
I was a pain in their ass, though, I’m happy to say. During the sermon, I would write down all sorts of theological questions for the preacher, based upon what he said, on the back of my church bulletin. God, he hated to see me walking past the pews and towards him after service was over. But he had to be enthusiastic and try to answer them, because I asked them in front of the congregation. Mwuuaaaa.
It really is that simple. I don’t know why so many people are having difficulty accepting that. You are paid to do a job. if you cannot do that job, you need to resign and find another job. I don’t care what people believe…worship however you please. But if your beliefs prevent you from executing the duties of your job, then you need to find a different job.
I don’t criticize anyone for their faith or for their lack of faith…but when it infringes upon the rights of others, well, that’s where your rights end.
Exactly.
She could have resigned in protest. She could have done her job anyway while privately objecting. People quit jobs for all kinds of reasons, and mostly nobody gives a crap why. Nobody is preventing her from practicing her religion or holding certain beliefs. She doesn’t have a right to her job. The whole free speech and free religion thing doesn’t apply to the consequences of your actions. You can’t be thrown in jail for an opinion. However you can be thrown in jail for breaking the law. Nobody forced her to break the law, but she did.
Her arguments are completely irrelevant and I’m glad she’s being made an example.
Exactly. Everyone is (thankfully) entitled to their own religion beliefs and viewpoints, but if it interferes with your civic duty then resign. She had the option to let her deputies issue the licenses but she wouldn’t even allow that to happen. Now she’s a martyr for her “cause”.
“Now she’s a martyr for her “cause”.”
Right. Her cause that is so important that she doesn’t follow the rules herself. Claims to be concerned about the sanctity of marriage, but has committed adultery and been divorced herself.
So infuriating. I don’t care if she has been married 30 times– whatever– her business. But the fact that she hasn’t followed the bible to a “T” makes it hard to understand how she could possible be justified in what she is doing. Sigh…
Exactly! But I think going to jail is what she wants – she probably thinks she’s a Rosa Parks-type figure and/or martyr for her faith.
Exactly.
Yes!!! This is a good reason why some government jobs should not be elected, and people should be appointed. Then if they can’t or won’t do the job they are just fired, and not thrown in jail and made a martyr for a cause. I always have to vote for judges and clerks, and I have no idea whether they are qualified or not. Most the time I don’t vote on that, and you know it is mostly friends and the party faithful voting, and that seems a terrible way to pick some of these positions.
You are spot on, Lilac.
Exactly you work for the government you’re religious beliefs don’t matter the law does.
Ah. You see, bigot love is not an ordinary love. It defies all reason and, it seems, secular law.
end of discussion
Agreed. The hypocrisy is strong with this one.
If anyone is looking for a good laugh, check out the “sit next to Kim Davis” twitter account (or an article about it). SO FUNNY!!!
“#KimDavis – DID GOD ORDER YOU NOT TO REFILL THE XEROX TRAY, TOO? GODDAMN IT SOME OF US ARE TRYING TO GO HOME TO OUR FIRST HUSBAND”
http://www.shewired.com/entertainment/2015/09/03/17-genius-tweets-person-who-allegedly-sits-next-kim-davis
Those are clever. Thanks.
Oh yeah. I feel sorry for her colleagues. Who wants the press in your face when you’re just trying to do your job?
So following the logic of Kim Davis, Muslim males working at the DMV could refuse to issue women drivers licenses because of their religious beliefs.
Please read Tifzlan’s comment above @8.37 am. Saudi women are banned from driving by state laws, not by virtue of their religion (Islam).
@sunnyeze, yes thank you. Women are not banned from driving in Islam. The driving prohibition is based on local culture/ laws, not religious beliefs.
Yes.
^^^^THIS, times 1,000 !
Note to Ms. Davis:
Oh, the irony is rich here. Get a haircut, get a life, and TAKE A SEAT. Clearly, she is not the sharpest tool in the shed if she believes she can be insubordinate about her revised Job Duties which were ruled on by the Supreme Court.
It is Federal Law now in how many States? Yes, separation of church and state but Woman, you of all people, need to step down from your position in the Municipality and read some self help books on how to be a better Wife and Christian—since that what you claim you are. A Christian. LOL
Wasn’t Jesus all about Love and Forgiveness? Why are all these Southern ‘christians’ full of hate and support of the death penalty? i strongly suspect that God and Satan were in a marriage before they went their separate ways- they always reminded me of a pair of old Queens-like Elton John. Satan was described as the most beautiful angel in Heaven-like Brad Pitt.
Jesus said ‘give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and give to God what is god’s’. These hate mongers have as much in common with Jesus as Howie Mandell has with ‘comedy’!
This is what I was trying to get across to my mother (who sadly seems to be getting less and less tolerant the older she gets) : you have every right to be anti-whatever. But if you work for the government and the law says you have to issue licenses, then issue the damn things!
Calling it a “religious test case” just makes me shake my head, because the law is the law and your religious beliefs should not give you the right to break the law.
Tell her that ISIS is also replacing secular law with religious law. That is their exact formula and strategy.
Heh, that’s a very good point and I think I might just mention it next time. The irony is that my mom isn’t particularly religious but now that she’s older it seems like she’s getting more intolerant.
Exactly. Somebody needs to continually point out to these people that by insisting on religious law, they are no better than ISIS.
Salon had an article by an author regarding his father becoming less and less tolerant and believing everything Fox News and Rush Limbaugh had to say and how sad it was. So many commenters posted stories of the same thing with their parents happening and said it was never like that for most of their adult life with them, but that it has progressively gotten worse. It was all about how far far right they had veered and about their obsessiveness over it.
The comments are a must read and are as good as the article with giving their experiences with their own parents. Great reading for anybody interested.
Here’s an excerpt.
“I don’t recall my father being so hostile when I was growing up. He was conservative, to be sure, but conventionally and thoughtfully so. He is a kind and generous man and a good father, but over the past five or 10 years, he’s become so conservative that I can’t even find a label for it.
What has changed? He consumes a daily diet of nothing except Fox News. If you consumed a daily diet of right-wing fury, erroneously labeled “news,” you could very likely end up in the same place. Again, this is all by design. Let’s call it the Fox News effect.”
http://www.salon.com/2014/02/27/i_lost_my_dad_to_fox_news_how_a_generation_was_captured_by_thrashing_hysteria/
I am so thankful that my 75 year old parents are STILL a couple of liberal lefties…
This could be describing my dad, too. My mom’s on board the same views now that she’s home all day with him. The Fox News effect is very real.
This makes me want to go hug my mom. She’s actually seeing the GOP for the woman hating misogynists they are becoming and she has become sickened by the misapplication of Christian principles by them, and the Kim Davises out there.
Everytime the news (not FOX, we watch regular news like Lester Holt) shows some nitwit spouting bible quotes to defend their hatred and bigotry my mom practically YELLS the rest of the verse(es) they are leaving off.
Mom isn’t perfect but she knows bigotry is wrong and she works hard to catch her thoughts and words. She uses Jesus’ teaching to do that and it boils her blood to see “Christians” using old school teachings (Old Test) instead of the words of the actual Christ.
Anyhoo, brb, gonna go hug Mom……
Same with my grandfather. The Fox News emblem on the lower corner of the screen became burned into his TV screen, so no matter what channel we watched, I could see the Fox News logo.
Oh Zeus. Yup. I shared a hotel room with my parents last year and my dad’s preferred news channel was Fox. After the second day, I demanded he change to another (real) news channel if he wanted to watch news and he asked me why I said that. I told him Fox was all right wing propaganda. So he said that must mean I’m left wing if I thought it was propaganda. I tried to get into the facts of their bias and lack of honest reporting, but he stopped listening to me. I’m sure he watches Fox now.
That, coupled with getting more deeply involved in church going, and I just have to sigh. It’s strange to me (probably both of us) how vastly different we are politically.
Sounds like my mom. She’s a very energetic, independent 80-something who is bright and completely with it. But it makes me crazy when she starts spouting Fox news and how evil Democrats are because, point by point, she’s actually pretty liberal. My mom is vehemently pro-choice, supports public schools, fair access to health care, LGBT rights, and was a feminist before the word was even in the social lexicon. By American standards, she’s a fiscal moderate.
But it’s this obsessiveness that the “liberal” label is wrong, just kills me. I think she still associates it with the 60s counter-culture…. She watches Fox News all day and votes a straight Republican ticket. When I ask my mom how she can vote for a party that does not represent so many of her beliefs — her response is just that you can’t agree with every single thing a party or politician stands for. Which is true, but I don’t get how you can vote for a party that doesn’t represent like 70% of your beliefs.
In the “Things I Never Wanted to Know about My Mother” category, I was over there a few days ago and she told me she’d vote for Donald Trump. I was aghast.
My father died three years ago, but the whole Fox News syndrome was very much a part of his last years. He watched it obsessively, believed it completely, and it scared him horribly. At the time I honestly worried if he was going to have a stroke or heart attack while watching Fox. I can’t say enough how much I resent Fox for robbing my father of his peace of mind in his final years.
@Doofus-Mine too.
@Jayna-Thanks for this link. This is my aunt and uncle, 100%.
I have to give it to my grandma. She was from up north but lived the last 30 years or so of her life down here in the Bible Belt, and even with my uncle watching FOX news constantly, she still remained a strong Dem! Go granny!
With one big exception: social security.
Some Fox bimbette named Michelle Fields said on the air that “we shouldn’t give money to old people just because they are old.” Her Facebook page blew up. Comment after comment with variations on the general theme of “You *bleeping* bitch, we EARNED that money!” Any republican candidate who advocates doing away with social security will find himself facing an infuriated mob of retired boomers. I’ll be right there with them.
That sounds like so many people I know (not my own parents, thankfully, but relatives and parents of my friends). My grandmother watched Fox News obsessively in her later years and would go on and on about the downfall of the country and how Obama was ruining it. She never even went to church, my dad never stepped foot in a church once in his childhood. Annnndd her husband (my grandpa) was black. I was like where is this coming from, and would try to encourage her to watch HGTV or something more calming. Nope, Fox News was on every time one of us went to her apartment.
Same thing is happening to my dad. He was always registered as an independent, but he grew up in the 60s and was very pro-science and environment, pro-equality when I was growing up. Now, he just parrots their talking points. It makes me very, very sad.
Just to provide a counter example to all of this to give you some hope.
My father died about 2 years ago at the age of 85. He had voted conservative all his life – but by “conservative”, I mean the Liberal Party of Australia – which throughout the ’70s, 80s etc. was more of a centre-right, fiscally conservative party. When the party took a swing to the extreme right, he bailed and he started voting for left-wing parties in his 70s.
By the time he was in his 80s he was anti-conservative and pro-gay marriage, probably due to the influence of his (much younger) children. He continued to change and adapt his views over time.
So it IS possible to get more tolerant as you get older…. but then, we don’t get Fox news here 😉
This sounds like my parents, who were always conservative but within reason, until the last 10-15 years, when they’ve gotten progressively further right and are now quite intolerant and only getting moreso with time. We had to ban all political/religious discussion in my family, because my mom didn’t speak to me for 2 months after I said I didn’t want a religious wedding ceremony.
I have a theory about this, though, which is that to some extent it’s just the natural progression of the generation gap. The baby boomers are aging and as they do so they become less relevant to the politics of the day, and further removed from popular culture, literally their time is passing. this happens every generation, old people always think young people are so wild and crazy, and young people always think old people are stuffy old bores. What’s exacerbating it with the boomers, specifically, is that they made the world so terrible and they *know* it. They’re facing retirement and suddenly there’s not enough money to support them. My folks are looking to retire within the next 1-2 years, but it’s going to be hard. Even with their 401ks and social security, they’re going to live on a tight budget and will probably have to have some kind of supplemental income, even in “retirement.” They are furious about this, they’re looking for someone to blame because they did everything “right” in life, and yet the American Dream isn’t working out. Fox News tells them to blame the gays, the poors, the brown people, the terrorists, whatever, so they do. It’s easier than just admitting, “Our generation was selfish and we rigged the system to benefit us short term but now there’s not enough resources to take care of us long term.”
I think you’re right about the generation gap. But sadly there seems to be a new generation who embraces the Fox rhetoric pretty wholeheartedly. I’d like to think they’re in the minority but they are out there.
I think that, the way they’re embracing Fox News and what it represents, is because the world they’re in now is not one they understand, at all. More than any previous generation, the boomers have been “betrayed” by the system. I grew up understanding there is no system except unfairness because I saw so much upheaval throughout my childhood (end of European Communism, AIDS, 9/11, etc), but my parents, and their generation at large, grew up in that calcified 1950s “dream America”, that “this America is the *right* America” nuclear family crap, but what they’ve seen as they’ve aged is that everything they were told as children was propaganda, and worse, none of the promises made to them as younger people are being kept. They feel alienated and betrayed and here comes a news network backed by a political ideology that allows them to blame everyone but themselves for the problems they’re now facing. When really, so much of the socio-economic issues we face stem from Reagan-era politics. It was white dudes helping other white dudes at the expense of everyone else, with promises of more for you later, but it didn’t work out like that. The “trickle down” never trickled down.
You are right.
Fox News tells angry people what they want to hear.
Esmom, yeah look at Chuck Johnson and Matt Walsh among others. Two twenty somethings who sound just like Rush. I’m not even sure if it’s genuine or just to be contrarian attention hos, but they are out there.
Yep, sounds like mine too. I’ve chalked it up to the “Cronkite Generation” phenomenon. They grew up, during the Depression, through WW I and II, Korea, Vietnam, and now all this endless MidEast stuff. They got the paper every morning (mine still do). Mine aren’t even Internet curious. They remember journalism when it actually WAS journalism — when investigative reporters like Woodward and Bernstein literally brought down a Presidency with actual news stories, vs. the nonsense that fills most of the “infotainment” hours passing as news today. They remember a competition between three major networks, all home to respected anchors who spoke on the most important issues of the day every day at 6:00, and nearly every home in the country was tuned in at important moments. You will never be able to convince these people that the world has changed, and that those in charge of the “news” outlets no longer care about news at all, but entertaining their target demographic. For Fox, that means fear and hate, because let’s face it, most older people fear change above everything else. The advertisers have left them behind, since they know they’re set in their ways in buying habits anyway — and if they’re retired, they feel abandoned by the society to a certain degree and relegated to insignificant status. Fox makes them feel as though they are the last bastion of Democracy, the only thing standing between us and unbridled Fasco-Communist-Kenyan Dictatorship, and many of them love the feeling of being “in the know” despite the fact that most people think they are out of touch because of their senior status.
Fox hits every button with that group — fear of rejection, aging, and change. Trump knows that too, and that’s why his campaign is all about a mythical American past as well. He appeals to the same demographic, and for the same reasons. Don’t like gay marriage? Foreigners? Non-White folks? Well, we’ll return to a glorious past where none of those things were an issue. And by the way, the economy will magically transform into a marvelous dynamo where there is virtually no unemployment, people will make great living wages and go on vacation every year, everyone will have health insurance (no matter if you have to pay for it, because you’ll make so much money), and Christian values will be the only ones respected by both government and citizenry. Wait, what’s that you say? There’s never been such a past? Minor detail. Besides, this demographic won’t have to live with the consequences of these nutty decisions anyway.
All of this.
yes, seconded!
Amazingly enough, the antics of the far right back in 2008 caused my mother to vote democratic for the first time in her 66 years of life. Four years later she changed party affiliation.
Maybe Fox News will hire her to moderate the next Republician debate? What a bad joke this woman is
She’s a Democrat.
She is a Southern Democrat in the truest tradition of the 1950s. And just because she is registered as one doesn’t mean she votes as one. Personally, I don’t see her being on the Obama Hopey Changey Squad.
What Mich says…this woman is what we call a Boll Weevil or Yellow Dog Democrat.
I think the term people call types like her is Dixiecrat.
Exactly, why people would assume that all democrats are good and law abiding citizen. Yeah, she is and has been since her voting rights. Another smack down covered by thirsty media and many to come. I think, there has been overreacting on both sides.
@mich…Obama Hopey Changey Squad? That is funny
ncboudicca PLEEEEASSSSSEE Come Back to Elucidate this Yellow Dog Democrat shit for me!!! I feel this is an Insult I want to Use, Know and Understand To its fullest extent!!
I always thought the slang term was ‘blue dog Democrats’, so this is a different variation?
Well, it’s an insult, but also has been appropriated by the people to whom it refers, as a point of pride. Basically, since Lincoln was a Republican – and the Republicans were the progressive party back in the day – many southerners only voted Democrat. They pulled a straight ticket all the way, to the point where they would vote for a Yellow Dog if it was on the Democratic ticket, as opposed to voting for any human calling himself a Republican candidate.
There aren’t a lot of yella dawg Dems left…most of them have switched allegiance to the Republican party.
Long explanation short, basically the Democrats (predominantly Southern) of yesteryear are more like the Reublicans of today, including pro slavery, segregation, etc. The Reps from back then are like no one today. The slow reversal of beliefs started in the mid 20th century.
Ex. The Roosevelts. Teddy R was a staunch Rep. Even had a black man over for dinner at the White House. Sadly, lots of people’s threw fits and he never did it again. His younger cousin, a generation apart, FDR was a Dem. This is like a Kennedy going Republican. Or like Ronald Reagans son, I forget his name atm, being as liberal as he is.
Ex 2. Reps from a few years ago liked to throw up Abe Lincoln as the great Rep example. That’s until every historian and 4th grader with a history book started calling them out on it. Because Abe’s Rep Party was nothing like these today.
I realize that this isn’t short at all. Sorry. Also for any typos as I’m on my phone.
Actually all of these explanations are incorrect. I’m a professor of political science.
A “blue dog democrat” is a socially liberal, fiscally conservative democrat usually found in southern states.
A “yellow dog democrat” is a voter who would, as the saying goes, vote for a yellow dog on the ballot before they’d vote republican. In other words, they are loyal democratic voters.
Kim would actually be a Dixiecrat, as someone mentioned up thread. This terminology entered our political lexicon during the Presidential run of Strom Thurmond, the segregationist, during the political realignment that occurred in the early 20th c. Dixiecrats were pro-segregation southern democrats (ie, BIGOTS).
When this realignment occurred, liberal republicans became democrats and conservative democrats became republican. We have not had another major realignment since that time, so the civil war era republicans (Abe Lincoln for example) would be democrats today and civil war era democrats would be republicans today.
Hope that helps.
GOOOODDD I Love it when I learn from the Bitchies!
But who will think of the children she had with her 3rd husband while still married to her 2nd husband?
Wait, I thought she had the kids with #3 while still married to #1! Then #2 adopted them.
Well, I suck at infidelity math, but my hypocrisy-dar is pretty well tuned. Why do these people keep happening?
“infidelity math” LOL!
I’m sure the way she is gonna play that nifty little fact is that maybe #3 was her first true love and she had to stay cheating on them all with him?? High school sweetheart something something??… *trails off*… But I think #2 Is who she remarried? I could be wrong or the hypocrisy could be making me dizzy
She already took care of one kid. He is a clerk in the same office and he reports to her. He was also the lone holdover when the judge questioned the staff about issuing licenses. He refused. Nepotism at its finest!
How is this a thing? Just fire the bitch.
ETA: Just read she’s an elected official. Ok. Impeach the bitch.
She can’t be fired. She can only resign or be impeached by a special session of the legislature. The Govenor refuses to call a special session because it would be on the taxpayers dime and would cost a lot. I appreciate that. The next session is in January. I hope she rots in jail until then!
Me too. I wonder if she has thought out the long-term consequences of her actions. Did she plan in advance to go to jail, or did she think it would never happen to her? I wonder if she has a special (enough donated money) day picked out to leave jail, or if she actually plans on staying behind bars until she gets her way? I wonder if she is surprised to be in jail. Merry Christmas, bigot.
how was she not fired for not performing her job functions?
She can’t be fired as an elected official.
I read that it’s because she’s an elected official. Apparently she has to be impeached.
She apparently can’t be fired as she is an elected official.
Unfortunately she’s an elected official, so she can only be removed from office if she’s impeached. And given the mindset of the people that elected her in the first place, she probably won’t be impeached. So I assume she’ll get to keep the job unless she resigns.
She has to be impeached and Kentucky legislature isn’t in session. Even if they called a special session, it’s unlikely there would be enough votes to impeach her.
Apparently, she and her family have had a hold on this position for decades. Her mother, I believe, used to hold this position before her. Those that work with her don’t agree with her decision but they’re also afraid of retaliation if they go against her.
Her son apparently works there too. Hello, nepotism! i’m also amazed at the salary for that job, given the location. No wonder they kept a hold on it for all these years.
Her son is also a deputy clerk,he is refusing to perform his duties as well
I am interested in how the son is able to report to his mom! That’s ridiculous.
I read that her deputy clerks–all but her son–were comfortable with the idea of issuing licenses for same-sex couples, but were too intimidated to do so. In fact, Davis has intimidated most of the employees working at the courthouse. No one disagrees with her to her face for fear of retaliation.
As to why she refuses to resign, maybe that has something to do with her paycheck, which comes to 80k annually.
@triple cardinal see this makes my blood boil. This is a prime example of why our goverment needs an overhaul and not just a overhaul in Washington – it needs to be everywhere. So much corruption and back door nonsense in all sections. Not to mention It is illegal to intimidate and harrass anyone on the job, especially in government. This Bish needs to go yesterday.
Her husband gave an interview today saying he took those 5 clerks out to dinner last night, after the ruling, and after they said in court they’d issue licenses. Clearly he’s picking up the mantle of intimidation. Happy to say, they did issue them today.
You would think she could afford a much better wardrobe with 80 grand a year.
I wish she would have been fired. Being seen in jail across the world only makes her more of a martyr which I’m sure she is thanking God for.
Well now she herself is married to Big Bertha in her jail cell.
She should just resign. I hear the Family Research Council has a job opening…
The family research council draws the line at adulterers and this women is an adulterer with 3 (4?) living husbands!!! 😉
Fun Fact: One of the couples she’s been repeatedly turning away has been together since she was on her 2nd husband.
the second husband being the one who adopted her kids she fathered with her third husband while still married to her first.
you can’t make this stuff up…
Nice one, this made me LOL.
But still–those people see divorce as a bigger sin than covering up child molestations so probably won’t work out.
Religious hypocrite.
This is what drives me nuts!! These “religious” people, that seem to pick and choose whatever suits them from the Bible! I guess, she just skimmed over the parts about divorce and adultery! I know so many people who are anti-gay marriage, who have six kids with six different guys, and have never been married to any of their baby daddies. But, that’s okay, because it’s them doing it! Hypocrites!
Yes but she “got religion” so she’s been forgiven by God!
Ugh.
She’s a cafeteria Christian! She can pick and choose what to follow!
The judge was not having it. She’s stuck in jail for contempt until she agrees to do her job, or you know – does the thing she should have done all along and resigns.
Her personal life is irrelevant – her refusal to do the job for which she was elected isn’t. Chances are good that she hasn’t been refusing to issue hunting licenses because the Bible says “Thou Shalt Not Kill.”
Her personal life is irrelevant to the legality of the situation, true, but fortunately these raging hypocrites always manage to break a law or two, failing to uphold an elected oath is not quite as vile as Josh Duggar’s crimes but the point is that hypocrisy, narcissism, and sociopathic tendencies tend to run together, so there’s no harm in calling attention to that pattern.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. Her marital history and out-of-wedlock twins are catnip to my less charitable self! And while we’re on that topic, it did occur to me that an ideal “rehab” scenario for Josh Duggar would be sharing a cell with Ms. Davis for as long as she wants to keep hanging on her self-constructed cross.
Being from Kentucky, I want to say that we’re not all like this vile woman! Plenty of us believe in equal rights AND have decent haircuts, I promise!
I was just about to write “Poor Kentucky. The people of that state deserve better than having her as their “poster girl”. As a Canadian traveling on the I-75 up Florida, I will always remember how beautiful your home state was and how friendly everyone was. Couldn’t understand a damn thing y’all said to me though 🙂 but I guess everyone thought the same about us.
She is embarrassing Kentuckians. Louisville Convention and Visitors Bureau recently launched a marketing campaign welcoming LGBT couples to get married in Louisville. We do have lovely people here, but unfortunately, this terrible woman, and now her son, grab the headlines.
@ Lauren and Deedee- My boyfriend went to Louisville for a relay race last year and he absolutely loved it. He kept texting me, saying that it was a “magical land”…lol
I’ve never been but we might try to go next year.
The impression my BF gave me was that it was a very fun and lively city with nice people and a good vibe. Whether it’s accurate or not, he made me think that this type of regressive mentality would not be considered the prevailing attitude in Louisville.
Glad your bf enjoyed Louisville, Kitten. “Magical Land?” That may have been the bourbon talking. LOL
mmmm…bourbon…
Ha!
I’m from Kentucky, too, and Kim Davis is such an embarrassment.
Kentuckian here as well, in a rural county to boot. I’m embarrassed and infuriated by this woman’s antics. Her behaviour perpetuates every negative, small town, small-minded stereotype in the book.
Yes! Seconded! I am a northern Kentuckian, and I almost always identify myself as a Cincinnatian b/c our area of Kentucky is vastly different from the rest of the state. And I missed out on the fun southern accent being from up here. But yes- so many of us are open minded, with better hair and jobs that are harder but don’t pay as much! I have a government job, and I make nowhere near $80,000. She, and our state reps/senators who are backing her, are an embarrassment. I hope Conway wins the next governor election.
It’s a lot easier for sure. Otherwise, people are like, oh, did you grow up with horses, on some farm? etc. etc. NKY and Cincy are basically all one place anyway.
Sadly, this will probably be the best decision she could make for her own bank account. Bigots across the country will line up to drop money in her GoFundMe. She’ll never have to work again.
That’s part of the reason the judge ordered her into custody. While she was on the stand, he asked her if she had started a legal defense fund. She said she hadn’t, but that people had been sending her money. At that point, he realized the fining her wouldn’t be any kind of deterrent and had her arrested.
Interesting. So what is the legal next step?
The bigots have short memories, though. Yes, they’ll dump half a million in her account NOW, but she’ll blow through it because she didn’t earn it. They won’t be dumping it again next year or five years from now. Look at George Zimmerman. He’s always teetering on the brink of bankruptcy despite receiving almost a million free dollars from the bigots after murdering Trayvon Martin.
Well, the fact that he keeps getting arrested for beating people up will take a toll on his savings.
This woman is gross.
The most satisfying “Bye Felicia” ever!!!
Michael K at D Listed said something really true yesterday and really sad about this case. Basically he said we’ve all seen the story before and we already know what’s going to happen… She’ll resign, someone will start a go fund me page on her behalf and by the end of next week she’ll be a millionaire. Unfortunately as we’ve seen in the last year bigotry is often celebrated… Just look at what happened at the pizza place in Indiana. Within a week over $1 million raised for them.
I wonder if that’s why she did it?
Unfortunately, you are not wrong. Very depressing.
Followed by a book deal and a Lifetime movie.
GoFundMe changed their policies in April. They no longer accept “campaigns in defense of formal charges or claims of heinous crimes, violent, hateful, sexual or discriminatory acts.” There is another crowd funding site out there that hasn’t made that change but I can’t remember what it is.
Thank you for that. And thank you Go Fund Me. I hope the other site follows suit.
This woman has some nerve pretending to hold marriage so sacred that her so-called conscience wouldn’t allow her to obey the law. Put her fat old arse in a jail cell and let her rot in there. Bigot.
Yeah, the hypocrisy is really, really astounding.
Yeah, we know lady, you think the law of God should be allowed to supercede the law of man.
So did Osama bin Laden. Nice company you’re keeping there.
but IT’S OK when it’s a Christian trying to force their religious rules on others, donchaknow? /S
No no no. It’s not Christians who are trying to force their beliefs on others, it’s all of us who are trying to oppress her Christianity.
heathens, the lot of us…
The only thing that would make this story better is if her cell mate is a very butch lesbian that develops a mad crush on her!
I loathe hypocrites like her…
She looks like a Duggar.
no, she looks like a love child of Dick Cheney and (Kathy Bates’) Annie Wilkes.
Lol! She does! I see so much of Dick in that face!
yeah, the Cheney is strong. I didn’t notice until someone pointed it out and now I can’t UNsee it.
Maybe she’s secretly Cheney in a REALLY bad wig.
YES! She has the cold, mean eyes of Cheney.
I thought Duggar too. I wonder if she is from the same religion as them?
She must be really good in bed to catch all those husbands because I can’t find anything good about her.
Replace the clerk with a school superintendent, replace the same sex couples with black schoolchildren and roll back the calendar 65 years – sad.
This is the point I always make. We’ve been through this before, except with desegregation in the 1950s/60s. Every single argument made today was made then, often citing the same Bible verses. I do not let people off the hook when I hear them talking about this in relation to LGBTQ civil rights. I remind me them we’ve already settled all of this before, we’ve already determined that people can’t refuse goods and services based on race and religion, now we’re extending it to include sexuality/gender. The only comeback I ever hear is, “Why should I have to support their lifestyle that I disagree with,” and my reply is, “One, it’s not a ‘lifestyle’, but even if it was, their ‘lifestyle’ isn’t hurting *you*, but yours is hurting *them*.” Then there is no comeback.
And at least three presidential candidates have either blamed this on Obama or claim that she’s right because gay marriage isn’t in the Constitution. Marriage of any type is not in the Constitution but apparently reading something they hope to pledge to uphold isn’t a job requirement to these people.
I’m wondering which candidate she’ll stump for first: Huckabee, Jindal or Cruz. Huckabee has more cred with that crowd, but Cruz could give her more money.
Yeah, marriage isn’t in the constitution but equal protection is!
Every American should be tested on the Constitution and its Amendments before they are given a voters card. The testing should be every two or three years and if you refuse to take the test or you fail the test you don’t get to vote or hold a government job. Any person running for political office should have to publically post their results. Every politician in office should have to take the test every year.
Well, unfortunately they used to use that kind of literacy test to keep people from voting, it was a way for conservatives to disenfranchise disadvantaged voters. There are always unintended consequences of well-intentioned policies….
Idiot woman. Can you imagine having your entire wedding planned and all you need to do is get your marriage license and this cow refuses to issue it?!
On the Support Kim Davis FB page, someone asked how they could help her out. Gofundme isn’t an option because she’s broken the law, so there’s an organization called The Family Foundation that is accepting donations on her behalf, but the poster advised them to mark the donation for ‘Religious Liberty’ and not Ms. Davis, to keep the IRS out of it.
I hope they rob her blind. A lot of these “foundations” keep an exorbitant percentage as “administrative” fees.
I hate when slang goes mainstream! Bye Felicia must end!
So the Governor refuses to call a special session to impeach this idiot because it would use taxpayers money, but isn’t taxpayers money being used to house/clothe/feed her in jail? Sounds like someone needs to determine if a special session would be cheaper to the taxpayers than her staying in jail until January when there is a regular session. Just sayin’…
I would be willing to bet that the Gov secretly wants her punished. Also, since this is in the Federal jurisdiction, maybe the state isn’t paying for this debacle?
The real issue is that the Governor doesn’t have the votes. There are plenty of politicians in Kentucky who agree with this woman. Rand Paul basically said she was being persecuted for her Christian beliefs (he’s in the US chamber so he wouldn’t be able to vote, but the statement is indicative of how many conservative politicians in KY feel.)
If the Governor calls a special session to impeach her, and the vote fails it will give her more credence. He needs to be whipping, though, because this could go on and on and on.
The state of KY is not paying for her to sit in jail. It’s a federal case. The federal government is, meaning all US taxpayers get to fund this fundie’s jail time.
By refusing to call a special session, the governor pretty much guaranteed she’s going to sit in jail until at least January when the legislature is back in session. Or she changes her mind. Whichever comes first.
But since she’s now going to be getting massive amounts of money via donations to sit in jail for the right wing cause, I doubt she’ll change her mind.
Her personal life aside, if Kim Davis believes that she is morally required to issue marriage licenses only for marriages that comply with Christian teachings, she’s been ignoring her moral code for years by issuing marriage licenses to couples where one or both partners were previously divorced without a reason for the divorce that is approved in the Bible. Unlike homosexuality, a topic on which Jesus was entirely silent in all teachings attributed to Him, divorces of convenience, and subsequent remarriage, were roundly condemned by Him. (Mind you, He didn’t suggest that the government of man prohibit such divorces and marriages, He just laid out that in the eyes of God remarrying after callously casting aside your spouse is adultery plain and simple.)
Now, I’m not a Christian, so I think all of this is wholly irrelevant to marriage and divorce laws regardless of whether Jesus intended that His thoughts on divorce should inform secular laws rather than just the conduct of His followers. But, if you are a Christian who believes that you have a religious obligation to defy the law and block marriages which are not formed in accordance with your literalist interpretation of the Bible, and say that you are refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses for that reason, then you had damn well better be interrogating every hetero couple who comes in about their past divorces and the reasons for them, and denying marriage licenses to couples whose marital history does not pass muster. Otherwise you are nothing but a bigoted hypocrite. And Jesus had quite a bit to say about hypocrites, none of it good.
well said.
Right on.
I hope jail time is slapping that smug look off of her face.
It’s pathetic that she can’t just be fired for not doing her J-O-B.
Jeeze, you mean Christian’s are not perfect human beings?? Go figure. Jesus didn’t come to save the righteous, after all.
But seriously, she should have stepped down if she was no longer able to do her job as the law requires. Trying to make herself out to be a martyr is ridiculous.
I don’t think it’s about expecting her to be ‘perfect’ because she’s a Christian, it’s about pointing out her hypocrisy. People probably wouldn’t know or care about her divorces or affair (which violate her religious beliefs) if she wasn’t trying to illegally abuse her power and discriminate against other people for marriages that ‘violate her religious beliefs.’ There are plenty of imperfect Christians (and people in general) who have made mistakes in their lifetimes but don’t try to impose bigoted attitudes about gender, marriage, religion, or morality afterward, and because of that, they don’t open themselves up to the kind of judgment that people like Kim Davis, Sarah Palin, and Joshua Duggar have (although Josh’s cheating is being judged not just because of his bigotry, but because of his history as a sexual predator.)
Girl Bye.
those commenters attacking her age or appearance are totally out of line
Yes.
I haven’t read any of the comments on this yet so please forgive me for this.
I have been SO ANGRY about this!!! Especially when the Judge asked if any of the other clerks under her would be willing to issue licenses or face jail. 5 out of 6 said they would. (all but her SON!) so….the judge told her she could leave jail AND not have to issue licenses as long as she signed off on the clerks below her to do so. She said NO!!! The licenses will be issued now but will NOT be valid without HER signature!
I have been ALL over Twitter like a maniac this morning about it! I want you all to know how DEEPLY I feel about this issue so…..
Ima out my Twitter self so you can see all the things I had to say about this if you want to. Posting everything I said there, here, would take up all of CB’s bandwith. LOL! My Twitter handle is VampKiraLynn if you want to see a mad mom of a Trans son reacting to this messiness. I may have gone a bit too hard on Huckabee….naw. The things he has been tweeting enraged me. Gloves off! Feels good to know I can come here to vent and escape the stupid.
Love you guys!
go harder on Huck. he’s scum.
we love you too!
Right there with you, it’s funny people often mistake my passionate responses on things for me being full of anger but NOTHING recently has gotten me as hot in fury as this woman.
I was actually genuinely surprised I was getting angry just reading articles about her, seriously how long do we have to wait for ignorant people to stop holding us back as a society. It’s so frustrating! We’re not a ‘United’ States anymore and we can’t be when people like this are the alternative.
It makes me mad too. People don’t have to like it, but they have to respect the law, and it’s time to move forward already. So much time, energy, and money is spent dealing with crap like this (bigoted people clogging up the system and stifling the right of others).
Thanks for the tweets. All the best to you and your family. Your son is very lucky to have you for his mom. I have been working a crappy job for too long because I couldn’t figure out what to in the last half of my life. Transgender issues speak to me and I really want to find work to create the legal foundation to support transgender rights.
@Cran- That’s awesome! Much LOVE to you! But don’t put too much pressure on yourself. This fight for equality has only just begun! And even if I don’t live to see a world where ALL lives matter, (black, LGBT, women, and especially women of color who have all too often been overlooked and not been listened to enough in the feminism world,) I know there are plenty of folks like YOU who will carry that torch when peeps like me are too old to make a diff….
I will hopefully be looking down on Earth from Heaven, and nodding in satisfaction at how the next generation kept fighting for equality for ALL!
This…these people…those….who want to deny rights to “others”, or those who benefit from priveledge and are just too dumb or numb to see how they do and have no ability to recognise that and humble themselves enough… I dunno. I’m ranting. ‘Tis been a long, sad day.
I just want hubby to come home so we can run to the river and splash around and forget…just for a moment….how scary things are. Everyone is equal. Why can’t politicions recognize that? The HUMAN RACE should band together, love one another, and save our planet! But….*sigh* politics and MONEY are all that matters to TPTB!
“Anything (anything) anything for money, lie for you- die for you, even sell my soul to the devil” MJJ
And apparently the lawyer defending her is comparing her to a Jewish person being persecuted in Nazi Germany and making a ‘Christian persecution’ argument. Because you know, a government official being arrested for abusing her power and breaking the law in the name of her ‘religious beliefs’ is totally the same as a group of people being abused and killed just because of the group of people they belong to.
By the way, the whole ‘freedom of religion’/ ‘it violates my religious beliefs’ defense that’s used to justify withholding services from groups of people always comes off as a BS defense, because nowhere in the bible does it say that Christians are not allowed to provide services in their places of employment to gays, fornicators, or anyone else who isn’t following their religious laws. There are plenty of Christians and other religious people who have no problem with not discriminating against people who don’t follow their beliefs. So clearly this isn’t an ‘oppression of Christians’ issue or an example of people being forced to violate their religious laws.
I love how the Internet responded with ” if you were nicer to the gays, they’d pull you out of 1992 and help your hair situation” LMAO!!!
LOL! That’s awesome.
I’ll never understand people who can talk so much bs about family values while having such a screwed up personal life.
I get people like Josh Duggar and TV evangelists who hire gay escorts and so on, the whole keep telling everyone how perfect you are so they never suspect thing.
But so many of these people are giant hypocrites in ways they can’t hide. I’d feel like such an idiot talking about the sanctity of marriage if people knew I’d cheated on a spouse or been divorced a bunch of times, but it seems like some of the biggest conservatives are the old guys on their 6th wife, who just happens to be a stripper. Then there’s the douchebags who rant about crime rates and junkies, when everyone knows they were/are addicts and they never even got a slap on the wrist. Most of the publically super conservative celebrities have spectacularly messed up personal lives, but they feel fine talking about morality and family values all the time. Are they delusional? Do the ‘rules’ not apply to them? Or do they think no one notices the dissonance between the way they say people should live and the way they actually live? I just can’t wrap my head around the mental gymnastics these people must do to be able to get on their high horse about certain things when everyone knows they’ve completely screwed up those things in their own lives.
Kim Davis’ excuse is that she did all those unGodly things before she was “saved” so it don’t count y’all! She’s free from that sin, just like Josh Duggar! She can now judge us unrepentant sinners! Grrrrrrr!
Exactly. She didn’t “find” religion until four years ago. So anything she did prior doesn’t count.
Agree completely…..seems the people who are so staunchly preaching “family values” are the ones who are more screwed up than the rest of us. I mean the hypocrisy makes my head hurt. Josh Duggar turns out to be a child molester, adulterer, porn addict and sexual predator and this woman who is refusing to do her job (hey here is an idea Kim…why not get another job that doesn’t interfere with your pick and choose religious beliefs) by not issuing a marriage license to homosexuals when she makes a mockery of marriage in her own personal life!! Married FOUR times??? Seriously?? Did it ever occur to her that maybe, just MAYBE, she doesn’t quite “get” the institution of marriage. You know, the whole “better for worse” “til death do us part” thing??? UGH….I am a divorced, single mother; don’t know if I will ever get re-married again, but I certainly would never judge someone else’s life. Maybe these people should start to focus inward on their own lost, tortured souls and stop worrying about other people so much 😉 I think God can be the judge in the end and that is fine by me!
If you aren’t reading @nexttokimdavis on Twitter, you are missing out!
Just read it and that person is HILARIOUS. He/she really nails down petty office culture and the memes are pee inducing.
just saw some of the tweets…I’m dying!
That twitter is hysterical!!! Love it
1. There is a brilliant tweet making the rounds: “No one is being jailed for practicing her religion. Someone’s being jailed for using the government to force others to practice her religion.”
2. I don’t think it is Bye Felicia time just yet. Her husband is saying that she will not resign “until something gives”. He is, of course, too stupid to realize that something just did give. His hypocrite wife is in jail and Teh Gayz is gettin’ married in Rowan County!
MICH- as to your 1. Hell to the YES! I saw that tweet and retweeted it too. That is PERFECTION and *should* shut people up. But peeps like HuckaLoogie will just put their fingers in their ears and say, “LalalalalalalIcan’thearyouLalalalalal” Derp.
I loved the fact that republican candidates who LOVEEEEE to preach about the constitution are defending this nut. I guess they skipped over that separation of church and state part. Only Jeb Bush has said outright that she has to perform her job.
But I love Fox News “poor white christians” slant. When you think they can’t get any dumber…they do
What’s really great for them is they can milk this until November and then seque into The War On Christmas foolishness.
The War On Christmas has already started on my newsfeed.
As I said at the top of the thread, there is no mention of separation of Church and State in the Constitution.
I was surprised when I learned that.
Not to take anything away from your sentiments, which I agree with.
> As I said at the top of the thread, there is no mention of separation of Church and State in the Constitution.
Exactly. People just assume it is there but it isn’t. I looked into it since this is important to me.
The situation is not clear cut in the US.
@ EN: The situation is clear. That phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson in creating the First Amendment and the US Supreme Court has consistently used the phrase in interpreting the First Amendment. It was a fundamental premise to the founding on this country.
Now that this troll has served jail time, I expect her to be immediately fired because now they actually have grounds to remove her from office.
Everyone needs to stand up to these religious fanatics until they finally get the message: a person’s religious beliefs dictates how THEY act, NOT how everyone else around them should act. The response to gay marriage being legalized is that these conservative nutjobs are crying out that they have no religious freedom and it’s just insane that they even think that. They’re entitled to think and believe whatever they want, but they’re not allowed to force things onto others and this really angers them.
If she doesn’t like gay marriage, too bad. If she can’t hand out marriage licenses, that makes her incapable of doing her job and she should’ve stepped down. She wants to be a religious vigilante, but not enough to actually step down because she likes collecting that check.
“a person’s religious beliefs dictates how THEY act, NOT how everyone else around them should act”
The problem is that religion doesn’t even dictate how these people act. I mean, they don’t even follow the laws of their own religion, yet they see fit to impose those laws upon others?
It’s that glaring hypocrisy that makes me stabby.
This is interesting.
A while back there was a Muslim woman who worked at a food department in a big store in Britain. She refused to serve a customer a bottle of alcohol because it meant she had to touch it – a sealed container.
The customer complained. I don’t remember the details but I don’t think her employers fired her, simply reprimanded her.
Social media was up in arms against the retailer, declaring the reprimand ‘racism’. People posted furiously about the lack of respect for this woman’s religious beliefs. Many declared themselves ashamed of a Britain that was so awful, so racist. All demanded the utmost respect for the woman’s religious beliefs.
I appreciate the civic duty argument in this case but it’s the reactions to the religious beliefs that are interesting.
I don’t think we can equate the right to buy alcohol with the right to marry, especially when you can just get another clerk to sell the alcohol, but gay people could not get another clerk to issue a marriage license. Workplaces in the United States can and do accommodate “sincerely held religious beliefs,” so long as those accommodations don’t impinge the rights of others or make it impossible for the business to run. You’re comparing oranges and apples.
We had a similar instance around where I live, of a Muslim teenager working at a Target (CostCo? I don’t quite remember) who didn’t want to handle the meat for sale in the grocery section, I think because it was not Hallal (this was a few years ago, my memory is spotty). The general consensus was that the store should try to accommodate her as best they could, but working in a store that sells meat means that at some point she may well have to work in the deli section, so she either needs to get over it or get a new job. People were sympathetic to the conflict, and wanted the store to be sensitive to her beliefs, but at the same time, the bottom line was, “Maybe you shouldn’t work in a grocery store.”
The only difference I see between the two situations is that that Muslim kid wasn’t being hateful, and so she inspired a more measured, reasonable response. This Kim Davies person is being incredibly hateful, and so people are not feeling the need to handle her with kid gloves.
That’s somewhat apples and oranges.
We have had a slightly similar case in the UK, where a woman registrar refused to carry out same sex marriages. She was sacked as it’s against the law to refuse to carry out a marriage on discriminatory grounds.
After a long, drawn-out tribunal, she was given her job back (although she didn’t take it up).
She wasn’t a licence issuer. She was the one of a team presiding over the ceremonies. She got offered her job back because in other instances since same sex marriage became legal, registry departments had made informal adjustments for registrars who objected – nobody was refused a licence or a registrar to carry out the ceremonies, but the odd objector just did other weddings instead. This particular woman’s registry department had refused to negotiate with her or accommodate her point blank.
Going forwards, it’s part of the recruitment procedure that every new registrar is prepared to carry out same sex weddings. And it remains illegal to refuse to do so.
So that is how we have approached this issue here in the UK. However, it’s still a bit apples and oranges since the UK is so much more secular than the US. There were only a tiny number of objectors already employed as registrars to deal with when same sex marriage legislation went through.
(I think she shouldn’t have got offered her job back, but I understand how the process worked).
They basically grandfathered in her beliefs? I could accept that as a compromise so long as any new civil servants are made to understand they *will* have to comply with the law, and if they don’t want to they need to find another job. And also so long as there is someone else in the office capable of signing off on the licenses so that these marriages are legal and in compliance with statutes.
Yes. Basically. The tribunal eventually ruled she *should* have been grandfathered as other regional departments had been informally grandfathering. So that was the “unfairness” in her sacking. It would have been ok to sack her if all objectors had been sacked.
Provided nobody’s being prevented from marrying – as they are in this US example – and providing the new hires understand the law, I can understand the grandfathering of existing staff. Might not like it, but it prevents all the dog whistles involved in cases making headlines while the change is being implemented. This woman knows that. It’s why she’s happy to go to jail. Delays the day everyone realises the world hasn’t ended because of same sex marriage.
I had a friend in high school who was (and as far as I know still is) a moderately devout Jewish person. When we were writing a paper in English class that necessitated the use of the word god she turned and asked me to type it for her. Because of her religion she greatly preferred not to write down the word god. We didn’t really get into the why of the whole thing, but suffice it to say I was happy to do it for her.
The issue here is very different. This woman is not attempting to personally behave in a manner that aligns with her personally held beliefs, the issue is that she has actively attempted to keep others from acting in a way that differs from her personally held beliefs either.
Good riddance! Well, for now. I hate that she is going to think that this makes her a martyr now, and as much as they say it is not discrimination it is. When someone is excluded from the same rights that others have, that is blatant discrimination. Just because she refused to issue licenses to straight couples she discriminates too, all in the name of God.
Yep. A person attacking another group’s rights just to justify their attack on the more marginalized group’s rights doesn’t erase the discrimination in their actions or the history of discrimination that that group faces. And her applying this to straight couples too doesn’t change the fact that her motive for doing it was specifically to withhold the licenses from gay couples.
I’m getting more and more infuriated every time I see someone supporting this woman on Facebook. I have people crying about how she’s been jailed for her religious practices an how it doesn’t matter if we think she’s right, she thinks she’s right and that’s what matters. No, douche, okay? She’s not been jailed for her religious practices, she’s been jailed because she is a government official who is in non-compliance with a federal law. The only person bringing her religion into it is her. If your religious views interfere that much with your job, get a new job.
I’d start deleting anybody on facebook supporting that woman.
I’ve unfollowed more than a couple. They’re all husbands family :///
why I deleted my Facebook account. Life is simpler and happier without it.
This woman is a real piece of work. Hypocrisy at its finest. And comparing herself to Rosa Parks??!! Beyond delusional!
In her mind, she’s Rosa Parks, but in reality, she’s the bus driver.
This!
Hope this hasn’t been repeated. I won’t be able to read the comments until later, but:
1. I smell a reality show coming:
2. This situations reminds me of pharmacists who refused to fill prescriptions for the one-day after sex pill. (I’ve forgotten both the technical and commercial names for it). However, their pictures (with insults) weren’t splashed all over the place but should have been IMO.
3. She is a clerk working in a public office. Issue the license.
Funny how these zealot-types don’t feel the same about gun licenses. A wedding license means you are participating in a gay marriage. But a gun license doesn’t mean you’re a party to any killings with that gun?
No, purchasing a weapon through legal channels does not automatically mean that you are party to any killings. You should educate yourself before you post things like this.
I think that was buzz’s point–Kim Davis is no more a party to a gay marriage than someone who legally sells a gun to someone who then kills is a party to that killing.
What I don’t understand is why she hasn’t she been fired? She has a job that she refuses to do, fine, you’re fired. Shes a clerk, not an elected official, right? Bye Felicia!
Nevermind, I just read that she’s elected.
The other person to object to giving out licenses to same-sex couples is her SON.
I’m waiting for him to go to jail, too. Or can he be fired? No idea if he were elected as well.
He can be fired. Mama hired him so he’s an at will employee.
B!t@h got SERVED!!! Hahahaha. If you can’t fulfill your legal duties than you need to remove yourself from your office, and get another job. I believe Walmart is hiring~
Really the most shocking part of this whole story is the fact that she got 4 men to marry her.
IKR? It was only three men total though. Husband #2 clearly has issues as he has now married her twice.
Well, I live in Texas. And I always assumed every Western country has separation of church and state. But the US actually doesn’t have it 100% separation, this is why people like the clerk here get confused.
We have “under God” in the pledge of allegiance. and kids have to say it daily starting at 5 y.o. What do they know about God? Mine don’t know anything.
I also had to swear to God , accepting the US citizenship. Nobody even offered me an option to opt out. Well, I said it, since I don’t believe anyway.
Most politicians finish their speeches with “and so bless you God”.
All of these are official governments things but God is everywhere and nobody objects.
We also have had many cases where pharmcists refused to sell Plan B contraception because it is against their religious beliefs. It is very similar to this clerk case. And they never get prosecuted. The person is forced to try the next pharmacy and hope that the next one will sell.
You do not have to swear to God to become a U.S. citizen. It is not always well-publicized, but you can take a modified oath or declaration of allegiance.
> You do not have to swear to God to become a U.S. citizen.
Well, I am 100% sure there was God mentioned in the oath, and I was mulling it over. But didn’t want to make big deal out of it.
I watched other people as they said it, nobody even flinched.
>you can take a modified oath or declaration of allegiance.
Yes, I imagine if I demanded I could’ve gotten a modified version. But the fact that it wasn’t offered speaks for itself.
And keep in mind, this is Texas, the Bible belt. I didn’t want to create trouble.
In the case of pharmacists, that is a private business. If they don’t want to give someone Plan B, they can get another pharmacist to do it. This woman is a government employee! And not only is she refusing to issue the licenses, but she is also forbidding any of her deputy clerks to issue them.
> If they don’t want to give someone Plan B, they can get another pharmacist to do it.
Well, except there is only one pharmacist on duty. The rest of the personnel are there doing the work and packaging the things but they have no right to dispense without a pharmacist approval
So, it actually means going to an entirely different pharmacy.
The issue of abortion is significantly different from the issue of gay marriage because beliefs about life and death are involved. People vary all over the whole nine months about when independent life begins and when the right of the zygote/embryo/fetus to continue to naturally develop begins to interfere with the woman’s right to her own body. But those who believe it begins at conception have a whole different level of moral dilemma when asked to participate in an abortion (which would extend to handing someone an abortifacient pill). Many years ago, I read a very thoughtful article by a Catholic doctor who could not in conscience perform an elective abortion (when the mother’s life is in direct danger is a separate issue, since the fetus will not survive without a live mother unless extraordinary measures are taken to preserve her body artificially, which Catholics do not generally believe is a moral mandate). There are laws and policies protecting medical personnel who face this dilemma, and provisions can be made for others to perform such procedures. A new problem arose for him when he was asked to do the pre-abortion examination of a woman. He really struggled with it. He did the exam, but decided he had come too close to aiding an abortion and would not do it again. Even if you don’t agree with his beliefs, you have to respect his right to not cooperate with something he feels involves wrongful ending of human life. Signing a marriage license hardly compares.
There are other options in the case of a pharmacist with similar moral conflicts. In particular, if the doctor is comfortable prescribing the morning-after pill, he or she should be equally comfortable stocking it and giving it directly to the patient. No need to go to a pharmacy, and many women would appreciate the extra layer of privacy. The doctor also should already know what prescriptions would be a moral issue for the local pharmacist and be ready to get around them in such ways. For items that are not so urgent and can be planned far enough ahead, online ordering is also feasible. But really the medical person who prescribes it should be prepared.
Separation of church and state isn’t actually part of the Constitution – though it as stated as part of the intent in some of legal exchanges in early lawmakers. As for the Pledge of Allegiance, the phrase “under God” was actually added in the 1950s. The original version doesn’t have those words in it, and there’s a couple of cases getting kicked around in the judicial circuit as to whether it’s a violation of religious freedom to make students say it.
The medical denial law has has also had its fair share of challenges. It’s a very grey area because the argument essentially boils down to – whose individual rights take precedence? Not quite the same as a government official denying citizens access to legal documentation. Unless they’re working for a federal agency, medical professions do not represent the government. Don’t get me wrong – I work in medicine and have MAJOR issues with that legislation because it undermines the intent of Hippocratic oath (a medical professional’s first priority should be the patient, not themselves), but it is a significant legal difference in practice.
> It’s a very grey area because the argument essentially boils down to – whose individual rights take precedence
If it is their job to dispense medicine and they are refusing to do it, they are in breach of the employment contract. And they should be fired for not doing their job.
But, of course, this happens in small rural areas where the owners /managers themselves are just as bigoted and they encourage it,
It wasnt there in the original pledge; it was added in the 50’s.
If you’re incapable or unwilling to perform the duties of your job, do the honorable thing and resign.
Don’t forget is she guilty of rampant nepotism – something that is against the code of conduct in any government job. She got her start in the office because her Mama was clerk. When Mama retired, she ran for her job and then turned around and hired jr. Jr was the Clerk who refused to issue licenses when the judge questioned the staff.
My whole thing is I don’t care how you feel about this issue. You’re entitled to your thoughts. However I’m a strong believer in the separation of church and state. She was paid to do her job and she neglected to do that when she stopped issuing licenses. So the taxpayer is getting ripped off. I wish they can fire her while she’s in the pokey.
I read she makes 80 grand a year. 80 GRAND! That’s twice as much as I make. And if I didn’t do my job I would get fired. She makes twice as much as me and isn’t doing her job and is a nasty, bigot, fugly peice of crap and I work hard and try to be kind and exercise and dress cute and take care of myself and make half as much as her… omg… I could go on and on… life is so unfair.
She makes literally seven and one half times as much as I do. I work in retail and all day long, at least one in three customers that I help proves to be so completely, cluelessly stupid that I wonder how they are able to literally, physically make it into the store. This is doubly frustrating given that since they shop in the store I work in, they are either massively in debt or making at least three times what I do.
It’s like someone was handing out cheat codes for life and prioritized the dumbest, rudest people they could find…
Some things that are getting glossed over in all of this:
1) Before she was sent to jail, she was given the choice of opting out of issuing the marriage licenses and having her deputy clerks do it instead, which would have directly addressed her complaint about being forced to participate in something that conflicts with her religion. She refused. So that shows us that this is not just about HER religious convictions but her desire to force others to live by her beliefs. Not okay!
2) Before this woman was elected county clerk, her mother held the position for 37 years. Also, her son is one of her deputy clerks! So clearly we have some nepotism going on here in a small town where one family has just been running the show. Which really shows how important local elections are!
“Which really shows how important local elections are!”
+1000
If you want to change the country and (not incidentally) directly improve your own life, vote in every election, people! The local judges, county clerks, school board, etc., matter a lot more in the day-to-day than the president does. Plus your vote counts for a lot on the small scale.
I think I just fell in love with you a little MSat!!! GREAT post~
@MSat – Regarding your Point #1, she doesn’t want the deputy clerks issuing licenses because her name is on all the licenses. So if someone else issues the licenses, by having her name on them, even if she’s not involved in any way, I guess in her mind that shows she is “approving” of gay marriage.
Also, if she’s in jail, that means she’s a felon, which, I would think, would be enough to get her removed from her position as clerk.
People like her get no sympathy from me.
IMO this issue is simple and finite (wink): you sign a contract with your employer, you respect it. If there is anything that sacred to you and you don’t feel you can honor your contract. if what is expected of you in terms of substantive and quality performance contradicts your personal believes, whatever those might be, you resign. Yes, simple and finite. You just cannot individually deny a persons’ legal right just because you disagree with the law. Just leave.
Well put! I 100% agree. This issue is so black and white. It’s hard to believe that any of these people genuinely believe that they will be on the right side of history. Or even that they are on the right side of their god.
If she disagrees with the court-ordered decision, she can resign. Oppression does not exist when alternatives are available that allow you to avoid compromising your own beliefs.
Impeach this hater! If any of us REFUSED to do our job duties, we’d be fired. This chick with 3 divorces is a total WACK job! have fun in jail! you are right where u belong!
The first amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not protect the right of a government employee to force their religious beliefs upon others. In fact, the First Amendment works exactly the opposite way, protecting citizens from the government enforcing a specific religious belief on them. If your belief system requires you to force your beliefs on others, you have no business working in government. Period.
Buh Bye, Felicia
Her personal life would not be an issue if it did not directly show her to be a complete hypocrite. Even that wouldn’t matter if she didn’t try to enforce her hypocrisy on others. Once you do something like this woman did, your personal life as it relates directly to what you did is absolutely fair game. Not only fair game, but totally pertinent.
What makes me so upset about this horrid woman is that she shares global news-space with real world problems such as the Syrian refugee crisis. Her smug, self-satisfied face shares space with the image of the drowned little Syrian boy washed ashore, facedown on the beach. It embarrasses and outrages me that SHE is even an issue. Gay marriage isn’t hurting anyone. Gay marriage isn’t starving anyone. Gay marriage isn’t suffocating men, women and children in the back of cargo trailers. My blood is boiling right now and it I’d because I feel like I live in a country full of idiots with stupid first world problems!
what if she was muslim…just wondering where the GOP would be saying then
This woman could have resigned for the sanctity of her beliefs, told anyone who would listen about it and started a kickstarter to make up the for the loss of income, and I still would have had more respect than I do for the way she has chosen to handle this.
You do not allow your personal beliefs to infringe upon the justifiable rights of others. End. Of. Story.
You do not nanny their immortal souls and you do not impose your beliefs upon those who do not invite your input. This is true in your personal life, and this is 200x more true in your professional life. Can you imagine what working for her must be like?
Da da ding ding ding ding ding ding diiiiing! ( dueling banjos)
Someone needs to remind this woman that the bible says “Judge not less ye be judged.”
I am glad she was sent to jail. She deserved it. She is an elected official and swore an oath to uphold the law. Instead, she chose to put her personal opinions and morals above the law. That said, she’s not the first person to do this. Countless others have done the same (Gavin Newsom comes to mind, as does the President), but I don’t see them being frog-marched into a jail cell. It seems that when it comes to the rule of law, people are rather selective when it comes to punishing those in public office who break it. Still – she is exactly where she deserves to be.
AND,,, she is laughing all the way to the bank
What does this one think about closet cases, married with children? Can you imagine being in the straight spouses’ shoes? We all know of at least one of these cases. Even NJ McGreevy or in your own neck o’ woods. By abiding and adhering to today, a written book of rules produced by many thousands of years ago, especially a woman. Challenging the,planet. Universe and mama nature
Let’s be real…I’m an agnostic. Not a sociopath who needs to immerse themselves in religion
Traditional stuff but I firmly believe in most of Christ’s teachings. Man, what a renegade he was. That just comes from my heart. I adamantly believe Jesup was higher evolved man of his kind. It’s painful to be on a higher plane today. You can relate if you express disbelief over stories in the news. Telling yourself ..but it’s 2015. That ain’t jack, Bs.
The alternative is to deny people their identity, dear hillbilly. Who adopts children, offers them a better life? The ones nobody wants? Our earth has a supply/demand mentality re: resources. The Brilliant Earth has it figured out. Control population with gays. Would this hillbilly twait in dire need of makeover prefer wars, plaques and cancers? Bet this bitch has only a HS degree at most. Oh and p.s.- not judging your unstable, slutty past, until you put children in the mix. I’m on a higher plane than you and Josh Digger
You’re so irreparably damaged and you’ll go to your grave as such. BYE.
Check your bible at the door honey and do your damn job! Everyone does stuff they don’t like everyday at work it’s our job! suck it up princess . I have never seen a more miserable looking woman in my life ! I guess she thinks her Bible is above the law! notttttttttttttttttttttttt
No, you can’t just check your religious or ethical beliefs at the door. We have too many people who do just that, following the most atrocious orders. Her problem is that she wants to keep her $80,000 a year job and follow her conscience when it directly conflicts with her duties as an elected official in that $80,000 a year job. She needs to either resign or agree to let others in the office handle the task that she cannot. Just like everybody else when their job conflicts with their beliefs about what is right and wrong.
As a scientific translator, I’ve had to turn down many jobs because I don’t want to participate in war in any way, which means no work that is paid for on military contracts (a big chunk in my areas). The only exception I’ve made, after lengthy discussion with the agency owner who was very aware of my beliefs, was work on translations for a project involving destruction of chemical weapons. After complaining about the stupidity and immorality of such weapons for so long, I felt it wouldn’t be right to not help get rid of the abominations. At one point years ago, there was discussion of a “specialist draft” in case of war, and translators and scientists (me on both counts) are among the specialists who would be affected. Even though my own thoughts on the inherent immorality of modern warfare (even “just war theory” can’t justify it) were not yet fully formed and I was reluctant to rock the boat (but even more reluctant to participate in mass murder and mayhem), I decided that in case of war against the USSR, the shock would drive all knowledge of physics, chemistry, and Russian entirely out of my head and I would be lucky if I even remembered any English. 🙂 I would probably have to hire out the cats as mousers to keep us going in my shock-induced state, escalating other moral dilemmas for a vegetarian. Life is complex.
Anyway – everyone has to draw their own lines in the sand concerning moral issues and that’s a good thing. But some decisions will have consequences, as this woman is finding out. She can’t have it both ways.
Wouldn`t surprise me, if she comes out as a lesbian. If she had refuse to give a black man and a white woman a marriage license and claiming it is against her religion, would she get the same amount of support from the GOP? I read she made 80000 dollar a year.
? So you call any woman you don’t like a lesbian?
With all the problems in this once great country, it is so troubling this is actually what gets everyone’s attention. Not that I agree with the woman, but let’s worry about the stuff that is threatening to destroy us as a human race and not this hillbilly woman that doesn’t want to issue marriage license to gay couples. Liberal news keeps everybody so distracted with stuff like this while the country’s economy is collapsing among other major issues. I think they call it the ‘dumbing down’ of society in the overall scheme .