When I watched Caitlyn Jenner’s 20/20 special last April, I came away genuinely moved. Caitlyn was still going by Bruce then, although she identified as a woman and was still in the middle of transitioning physically. While Caitlyn’s interview was interesting and even moving, the news of her transition was mostly fait accompli at that point. In fact, I was more surprised – and I said so at the time – that Caitlyn still identified as a Republican. And she still does! In the first season of her show, there were many record-scratch moments where Caitlyn was trying to hang out with her girlfriends and she would start spouting some GOP talking points and her girls were like, “Cait, you’re ignorant as hell.” Caitlyn’s consistent perspective seems to be that if someone wants to transition, then they should just be white and rich like her. Even after all that Cait went through, she was still being judgy about gay marriage as late as last fall!!! So, yeah, her politics are still more shocking to me at this point that her transition. And Caitlyn said as much during a speaking engagement at the University of Pennsylvania.
Caitlyn Jenner appeared in front of a sold out house of students Wednesday night and U. Penn students didn’t hold back in asking important questions. In response to one student who asked Caitlyn why she doesn’t belong to a more liberal political party, the 66-year-old E! star replied (via a local Philadelphia blog), “I have gotten more flack for being a conservative Republican than I have for being trans.”
Vanity Fair writer Buzz Bissinger, who was the one interviewing Cait last night, supported Caitlyn’s Republicanism adding, “Just because you change gender doesn’t mean you change your core beliefs.”
Bissinger, who wrote Cait’s famous Vanity Fair article last year, later brought up the media headlines suggesting Cait transitioned for publicity or profit. “I don’t need the money. So I don’t understand that claim,” Jenner answered. “No one transitions for financial gain. No way…You don’t do it unless you know deep down in your soul that it’s the right thing to do. If I can’t be honest with myself about what I’m doing, I’m no good for anything.”
Another student asked Caitlyn about her status as an LGBT role model.
“I’m not a role model!” Jenner replied. “I’m so new to this community I don’t expect to be one.”
Caitlyn also reflected on the fact she never told her father she was transgender before he died over a decade ago. Cait said she imagines her dad telling her today, “You know what, you’re doing a good job. You’re making a difference.”
“I have gotten more flack for being a conservative Republican than I have for being trans.” That’s because your political affiliation is a choice. Being transgender is not a choice. You can chose to open your mind, acknowledge your privilege and try to open yourself to the transgender community. Or you can just be a rich, white Republican woman complaining about how those messy trans people are living on government handouts.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet.
We should all judge eachother less because of our beliefs, but God, is that hard. I can’t help but subconaciously judge people when I find out they’re right wing, either fiscally or socially.
It’s so deep rooted and hard to shake.
I agree. Maybe it’s because I’m gay and black. I didn’t always feel this way, only since GWB was president. Now as much as I try to see the other side, all I see is a group who wants to disenfranchise me in every way possible and probably doesn’t even consider me an American.
And the only smart thing Caitlyn said is that she’s not a role model.
I used to judge people too much, and along similar lines – things seemed SO divisive when GWB was President, I couldn’t stand that guy – but now I’m not quite as judgmental. I’ve known people who vote R. that are gay, or atheist, and I’ve known people who vote D that hate this or that group of people. And certainly during the Iraq War, people in both parties who were for and against going to war. I also realize now that some people aren’t hateful, necessarily, they just may not believe government should be involved in certain things at all.
I’m amazed at all the comments about “Every conservative I’ve ever met was a totally awful person”, too. I’m glad that I know good people of all political stripes.
“We should all judge each other less because of our beliefs”
Should we, though? Political views are a choice, not something you are born with and impossible to change, and some of them are incompatible with others. If a person holds certain values, s/he has all the rights to think badly and not want to be around people who have the opposite values.
Caitlyn Jenner is ignorant and a hypochrite. She couldn’ t give a lesser damn about gays’ s rights (and being against them gave Bruce Jenner a lot of sympathy from the republican conservatives he wanted to impress and be pals with), but now that it suddenly bites Caitlyn Jenner in the ass she is all for learning and opening her mind. I know that it can be said that when she was Bruce she didn’ t have the ability to understand but now she has and a whole world opened for her, but given that I think she is a famewhore and only wants to please people because she likes the attention and doesn’ t like the criticism, I’ ll go for “she changed her mind because she would get backlash if she stayed the way she was before”. I judge her for that, and I don’ t like her for that.
I also don’ t understand why anyone would willingly support a political movement that goes publicly against his or her status. republicans don’ t like gays, women, transgenders and people of colour. I just do not understand.
💯
Yeah….it would be nice to see past that but the brutal reality is perfectly summarized by your comment.
Don’t get me wrong: I have friends (casual friends) who are Republican. They’re good effin people. But I’m not sure I could ever be super-tight with them, you know? Because it’s not just about who you vote for, it’s a whole set of beliefs that go along with that. It’s an outlook on life, basically.
That’ s exactly it, Kitten, there’ s an entire set of beliefs and attitude behind that you can’ t go past through, no matter how much you like that person: you might meet someone awesome who keeps telling you that s/he supports gay marriage, is pro-choice and whatever else, but if s/he votes republican because s/he believes in their ways even if not completely, it automatically means that s/he does not care enough about gays and women for them to choose how to live their lives and be given the minimum amount of respect.
And it’ s just wrong when enthusiastic supporting words come from someone in those categories that are constantly attacked or ridiculed just for what they are.
There’s a whole spectrum of Republicans, just as there is a whole spectrum of Democrats.
Talk about painting an entire group with one brush stroke. How about some tolerance
I’ve noticed that a lot of Dems preach tolerance but aren’t tolerant of anyone who doesn’t share their opinion.
I came here to make sure someone had said this. Being trans is not a choice IMO. Being a Republican…definitely a choice.
PK, I hear this a lot from conservatives and it’s so frustrating that they just don’t get what is meant by tolerance. Being tolerant does not mean tolerating bigotry – whether it be in the form of outright blatant racism/sexism/homophobia or in the form of reducing the rights of certain minorities and women (a hallmark of the conservative platform in the U.S., let’s face it). Let’s please put this “argument” to rest. It’s not smart.
Thank you Trillion.
We are not tolerant of injustice. We weren’t when it came time to abolish slavery and fight for women’s rights. I’m sure there were a lot of annoyed people angry the left couldn’t be tolerant of their desire for white’s only spaces.
*hypocrite
Caitlyn Jenner is the epitome of a hypocrite.
@Trillion I understand what you are saying but I am not a conservative. Actually I’m a lifelong non bigoted, non sexist, non-homophobic democrat who doesn’t lean that far to the left.
WORD! I agree with you completely. people who aren’t rich, white men and support republicans are a mystery to me. also, yes, we should judge people based on their political views. that tells a lot about a person. I’m not saying we should hate on somebody, but we should be able to criticize.
@Robin,
Yes, there is a broad spectrum, but the core beliefs of republicans is very intolerant to people who aren’t rich white males. One would think that if you disagreed with the core, then you’d stop self-identifying as a republican.
I feel you. But those same right-wingers are usually people who are very much in favour of others being treated like second-class citizens or human beings on the basis of race, sex/gender, sexual orientation, etc. In this case, I think the judgment is very much warranted. I’m not going to judge somebody for being, say, fiscally conservative, but I have zero tolerance for intolerance and close-mindedness. And yeah, I see the irony. 😀
Well, I totally judge them for being fiscally conservative too.
Why? Why is being fiscally conservative so bad to you?
@Locke Lamora, I’m not a big fan of it either, to be honest. I’m a die-hard left-winger. But at the very least, this is something you can have an actual debate about with people and find some common/middle ground. Hopefully.
@Mel M, fiscal conservativism disproportionately targets and affects marginalised and poor people. It advocates lower taxes and lowering state debt (a ‘have your cake and eat it’ scenario if I’ve ever seen one, IMHO), and to accomplish that, the first things that get cut are social and welfare programmes. That’s why I personally dislike it, maybe Locke Lamora has similar reasons.
True fiscal conservatives would be screaming at Grassley and McConnell do to their jobs instead of planning to shirk their duties for the next ten months while collecting pay checks and benefits from the tax payers.
Fiscal conservatism (or trickle down economics) is proven to not work, and that’s based in fact. Consistently, deficits balloon when supply side policies are put into place and reduced with more liberal fiscal policies. Perfect current examples are Kansas and California. Kansas has implemented tax cuts for the wealthy, cut services to the bone (schools are way underfunded now) and has a big budget problem. CA on the other hand went the other direction, raised taxes on the wealthiest (and not by much) and is now sitting on a $2 – 3 Billion surplus. Happens over and over again.
This is an important distinction because (I imagine) Caitlyn came of age politically during the Reagan era when the Moral Majority etc was still getting revved up and being a Republican was still more about fiscal conservatism and hadn’t been hijacked by the religious right. Many people in this country hold their political affiliation like they do their sports team affiliation–it becomes part of their self-image and can be hard to shake. (That said, that she is still a Republican boggles the mind and must involve some serious mental gymnastics.)
There is more to fiscal conservatism than just trickle down Reaganomics.
@susan. Yes, let’s include a burning desire to eliminate Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid, any assistance to the poor, no investment in infrastructure (who needs roads or bridges), ginormous defense spending, and privatization of prisons, while contractually agreeing to year over year prison population increases, while providing deep tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations. Those are the hallmarks of today’s brand of fiscal conservatism. Fiscal conservatism may have meant something different in earlier generations, but that’s what it stands for today.
@sugarquill, ok I hear youu on a lot of that. I have a special needs daughter who is severely disabled and we used to live in IL. We moved out a couple of years ago because we were being taxed to death (check out Chicago suburban property taxes) and moved next door to IN so we could actually survive. This is a state that has been run by democrats for years and years and they are severely in the red BUT the republic governor Rauner that took office a year ago is doing exactly what you said and cutting services to the most vulnerable like special needs children to try and save money which in the end will cost the state more but that’s a different discussion. Anyway, my daughters medical care cost for meds, specialists, therapies are unbelievable and even though we don’t live in poverty, after taxes and retirement savings, which my husband is truly only putting the bare minimum into which is also scary, we were truly living paycheck to paycheck and in the red most months but we were way outside of the income limit for getting assistance of any type and the waiver program waiting list was 10 years. So it’s really frustrating to be paying a crap load in taxes for programs that are supposedly in place to help people like us and you don’t get use them because they look at your gross income and don’t even consider what you pay out in taxes, everyday expenses and medical expenses. Our case worker said the same, we are right in that sweet spot of making too much for assistance but not making enough to not worry about money energy single day and how we will be paying for our daughters ever increasing medical expenses. By the way, our daughter didn’t have a diagnosis until she was almost 2 months old so we had no idea that this would be our life
@Mel M
I’m sorry to hear that. I suspect that a lot of families with special needs children or children with disabilities are in a similar position. Plus, in the US you guys have the additional burden of paying huge sums of money towards health insurance, which ultimately doesn’t offer remotely enough coverage, especially in cases like yours. I think the situation would be quite different if there was a more efficient health care system in place (and, of course, if politicians would stop cutting programmes designed to help and benefit the vulnerable). You’d probably be paying more taxes, but you’d save tons of money on meds, specialists and therapy. It’s a shame that the concept of universal health care and a single-payer system is still such a divisive issue. Anyway, I sincerely hope things look up in the future. Best wishes to you and your family!
@zinjojo: No need for the angry reply. I was not touting the benefits of fiscal conservatism, just simply stating that trickle down Reaganomics is/was one aspect of the concept. Keynesian economic theory is one aspect of liberal fiscal policy, not all encompassing.
PS hostility waters down your message, it doesn’t amplifiy it.
@sugarquill, thank you. You are so right, we had to switch healthcare companies this year and we are paying more in premiums, more copays, more in deductibles, they are cutting her therapy visits in half, and having to jump through hoops with pre autho and other things just to get meds or equipment that she need to survive all the while they are denying coverage for things that our old insurance covered no questions asked. So why am I paying so much more to retain your insurance when you don’t want to cover anything anyway! I hate it. Oh and moving to IN gave us a little break in housing costs and taxes but the programs are just as bad and we don’t qualify for anything, there is a shortage of therapists statewide, blah blah blah. It’s just so frustrating when you feel like you and an entire group of people are being ignored by your so called representatives.
Who are the “we” you are speaking of when you talk of abolishing slavery or fighting for women’s rights?
I will never understand why anyone would want to stay with a political party that truly HATES them. If the GOP had their way, people would not be allowed to transition and they would have NO rights. Hell, they use transgender individuals as a way to block city ordinates that protects the LGBT community by using the “we don’t want pedo men in women’s bathroom molesting our daughters”. I really think Caitlyn needs to get out of LA and try living in other areas of the country such as the south where she can see how truly intolerant Republicans are towards her.
Yes she is very disjointed to not understand why a group who is vehemently anti lgbt and other minorities is probably not a good choice of support. That man in a dress comment she made was also in bad form. I hated her before so still do! $#@& all the way off Caitlyn!
Everything ya’ll said this thread is IT!, sure we should judge on character etc, but it’s hard when the Right wing in this country tried so hard to intermingle belief/morality etc to their political belief too and it’s also hard as Neelyo touched when it’s a group of people that Also stays making a concerted effort to deny so many others their humanity and basic rights and a BRE said my biggest thing is struggling to understand how can you be part of a party that openly hates you, like to me Log cabin republicans or Minorities/POCs or poor whites voting republican baffle me, like these are folks in public that VOTE AGAINST YOU, HATE YOU, ACTIVELY DENY YOU so how Sway??!?
I don’t really have anything of value to add to this thread because you guys just said it all. I just came to say that I completely agree. It baffles the mind that anyone could support a group of people that unabashedly hates them. It’s the kind of rage-confusion I feel when women support Donald Trump, when it’s perfectly clear that Donald Trump really doesn’t like women.
Considering the way she covered for her husband every time he sexually assaulted someone, I’d say Hillary is the one who doesn’t like women.
He has been accused (by his political opponents, notably Brodderick, is a now a Trump supporter) of sexually assault. That’s it. Accused. If you honestly think these accusations outweigh the entire lifetime of Hilary Clinton’s well-documented support of women’s rights, you’re nuts. Hilary “doesn’t like women”. Pfft.
It depends on what they’re espousing. People are allowed to have differing viewpoints – it’s what makes the system work. The problem is when one person’s viewpoint infringes on the health or well-being of a other person.
Personally, the thing that drives me crazy is when people tell me “I know all about this, I’ve researched a lot”. No, you went to Google. That doesn’t make you an expert in anything.
The problem with the Republican viewpoint is that even if it’s on a “spectrum” as someone mentioned above, it’s still a party that actively fights to take away the rights of others. That’s really the bottom line, regardless of whether you pick and chose which parts of the GOP party line you’re on board with.
I mean, people like that…why not just say your Centrist or Independent? To me, once you say you’re Republican, then you’re inexorably tied to people like Cruz, Gingrich, Hannity, McConnell, and on and on. These people are the public face of the GOP. If they don’t accurately reflect everything you believe in, then you shouldn’t be subscribing to the same political party. There ARE options outside of Democrat and Republican.
But that’s the thing – it doesn’t ascribe to the entire Republican party, just the loudest, most vocal part. That many normal people don’t listen to and don’t believe (as evidenced by the far right wing’s inability to actually back a candidate that wins on a national stage). Look at the last two Presidential elections: both McCain and Romney really only shot themselves in the foot when they were pressured by the folks that are self-appointed “voices of Republicans” to move away from their own moderate, centrist viewpoints.
There are some deep, serious flaws in our American political system right now, but ultimately it has more to do with $$$ and manipulation, and vilifying one entire party over the other simply plays into the deep partisan politics going on right now.
I mean, George freaking Wallace was a Democrat.
I’m not sure if it boils down to who is the loudest though. Scalia, McConnell, Scott Walker, Jeb Bush…none of these guys are particularly loud or bombastic.
Take for example the cons in the Senate defunding Planned Parenthood in Texas. I actually think the quiet Republicans are more dangerous because while we’re all focused on the loud ones, they’re quietly changing laws in order to deny others their rights.
Where are the Republicans who are centrists? You named two examples: Romney and McCain. Problem is that nobody on the Right seems to like them or even give a sh*t about them. What that tells me about the Right is that you have to be loud and extreme in order to be popular.
These things don’t exist is a vacuum, you know? From my perspective it seems that the loud conservatives are consistently rewarded by their party, not denounced like they should be.
You say “demonization” and I say that it’s simply holding a political party responsible for the decisions they make. The defunding of PP in Texas is a perfect example of that, as the repercussions have been astounding thus far and it doesn’t stop there: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/wisconsin-governor-scott-walker-signs-bills-to-defund-planned-parenthood-affiliate
That’s why I can’t with the Right.
Seriously, I used the example of the last two Republicans that were nominated by their party as their candidate for president – it’s not like I referenced someone from Podunk, Arkansas city council. In fact, one could state that it better reflects the state of actual American Republicans that they rejected the more Conservative, Right Wing candidates. But for another example, look at all the Senate women; they are consistently the most collaborative, constructive group, be they Republican or Democrat.
“Seriously, I used the example of the last two Republicans that were nominated by their party as their candidate for president – it’s not like I referenced someone from Podunk, Arkansas city council.”
Exactly! …and NEITHER of them got elected. I think that proves my point, no? They had enough money to run sure, yet they weren’t polarizing enough to win the presidency. People on the Right HATED Romney precisely because (1) He wasn’t extreme enough or “too wishy-washy” was the term they used (2) He was Mormon and: (3) He was a Massachusetts governor.
The Right thought that maybe if they trotted out a McCain or a Romney that they might have a fighting chance, that maybe Obama wouldn’t dominate because some on the Left would be drawn to a seemingly moderate candidate. But they neglected to consider the possibility of their own base rejecting the candidates they selected. They also underestimated black and women voters, but that’s another topic.
We don’t even have to go back in time to argue about this. Just look at what’s happening now: John Kasich was the only moderate, seemingly reasonable dude out of the original 11 Republican candidates.
Where is he now?
You can call it bias if you want but to me it’s just stating the obvious. This is what I’ve observed: The Right does not like reasonable.
And if someone leans Right but doesn’t want to be associated with the main faces of the party then how about this solution: DON’T CALL YOURSELF A REPUBLICAN. It really is that simple. If you’re a Republican, then you have the likes of Trump representing you. You don’t get to have it both ways.
Myself? Well I don’t agree with a lot of what the Dems do so I don’t refer to myself as a Democrat and I haven’t been registered as a Dem for 15 years. It’s really not that bad to be an Independent.
Actually, the fatal error that both McCain and Romney made was succumbing to pressure to move further right – both were nominated because they were moderate, centrist candidates, who failed by getting more extreme. And I think your solution of “just don’t call yourself a Republican then” is unreasonable and unrealistic, to be honest. (I am really not trying to be rude, I swear!)
Spot on, Bridget!
There is choice involved in being transgender in the way that Caitlyn is. Translating one’s internal feelings into reality by undergoing surgical procedures is a choice. It’s a choice that I presume most poorer people don’t have but for those as rich as Caitlyn it’s a choice. I’m glad for her that she was able to make what she feels is the right choice for her.
That aside, if there is diversity in the GOP, it’s a shame that the current crop of presidential candidates doesn’t reflect that at all, with all the prominent candidates seeming to try and out do each other in the “I’m more anti immigrant / anti welfare / anti choice / pro religion in politics / pro guns and every other regressive policy than you are”. If there is Republican diversity, then those on the more moderate wing need to get their act together and make their presence felt, otherwise those of us who don’t live in the U.S. will continue to look on in amazement at the specimens put forward as nominees.
Gross. I don’t like anything about this woman.
She wants to be treated like the woman she is? And live authentically as a woman? And be viewed and talked to like a woman? I can do that for her. Here goes:
F*ck this b*tch.
-TheRealPinky
That was authentic, lol.
LMBAO!!!!!
Congratulations! You have won the internet!!!
+1000%
The highest of fives to you, madam!
Sometimes Caitlyn’s replies to questions have a similar tone to how the Kardashian sisters respond. Almost like generic or not really answering the question. Either all those years married to Kris rubbed off on her or Lucifer’s Homegirl is still pulling the strings.
OK, I’m probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but here it goes:
*takes deep breath* I cannot, for the life of me, understand why women, POC, the LGBTQ population or any other minority group would ever vote for a party that has a rock-solid record of not only not supporting, but attempting to completely and utterly take away their rights and oppress them in every imaginable way. It’s especially unfathomable nowadays, seeing how the GOP has turned into this hellish caricature. Rich white women, OK, I get that to some extent since the Republican Party is very friendly to the wealthy. But everybody else, why? I’m genuinely asking, because the only explanation I have come up with is that it must be a case of ‘The Stockholm syndrome is strong with that one’. Or self-loathing, internalised misogyny/homophobia, etc.
Be gentle, I come in peace.
No hate from me, shrugs, and maybe I’ll get hate too but I haven’t heard a single reason over the years that didn’t sound like attempting to be a part of a mob before they turn their pitchforks on you.
I don’t imagine you will hear a single voice of dissent or attack on you for this opinion. Not one.
-TheRealPinky
Only love here.
No hate Sugar, lemme tell you my boss who has what I call A Wall of Hate pics with all the Bigs on the Republican Party and Kid- You- NOT TP with the President’s face on his actual desk asked me last election cycle if i was a democrat and I looked at him like he had 25 heads i told him: What has the republican party in any way done for someone like me, I’m a Woman, clearly black, an immigrant with an audible accent, and last i checked Im middle class if I stop spending money??!??! Don’t make me laugh and also let’s not discuss the illegality of asking me this, then when he had to take out more off my paycheck he claims for insurance he actually tried to be the petty old B!tch that I know him to be and said ” This is YOUR president’s fault, you know?” I told him that it was cool I wasn’t titty crying about it unlike he seemed to be
He had actually no come back
Gah, your boss sounds infuriating. Is he even allowed to display HIS political beliefs that openly? I mean, considering the illegality of asking employees about that, shouldn’t the same rules technically apply to him as well?
Ditto what SugarQuill said.
At least you shut him up.
I would have sprayed that TP with pepper spray and let him suffer an itchy ass for weeks.
well you see Eternal, he doesn’t use it, he just likes to display for his clientele that he is an Out and proud racist A-hole.. I Guess?
I would like to say that all my beliefs have come from deep, rational thought, but the truth is, my parents have always been very liberal and I hold many of their same beliefs. I can imagine that many people who are conservative have always been surrounded by those thoughts and it is easy to justify why they must be right.
On the other hand, while my mother has always been liberal, my grandparents were super conservative, and my aunt and uncle were always Republicans. 50 years ago, the Republican party was not as focused on being anti-gay rights, anti-abortion, etc. My aunt (a lesbian) and my uncle have definitely drifted aways from the GOP in recent years.
Yeah, I guess that’s probably the case for a lot of people. I do wonder, however, whether conservatives are more vocal about their beliefs and therefore more inclined to pass them on to their children. These are some of my own musings though, on a purely anecdotal basis, so don’t take them too seriously.
A lot of liberal folks that I know grew up with liberal parents who never shoved their political views down their kids’ throats, yet the kids still didn’t grow up to be conservatives. Even some of the people who have conservatives as parents grew up to be liberals. I guess what I’m saying is that maybe people are more inclined to be liberals either way in this day and age. Whether that is rooted in social justice becoming an increasingly important issue for the younger generations or whether it’s due to the fact that conservatives seem to have lost it in recent years, I don’t know.
My parents are left-wingers and I suppose I could say that I ‘inherited’ that from them, but they aren’t quite as open-minded when it comes to social issues. I’ve heard some really cringeworthy comments from them over the years and I’m happy that that’s something we don’t have in common.
I don’t understand how someone could affiliate themselves with a party that has opressed their people for decades and still does. But on the other hand, I always see left-winger decribing right-wingers (especially young ones) as parrots that just repeat everything their conservative parents thaught them. And I just think, don’t you do the same? If it wan’t your parents, you’re just repeating whatever the cool rebel blogger of the moment says. On my personal experience, I’ve learnt critical thinking is something practiced by about 5% of the population.
Dunno, whenever I’ve seen comments like mine on the internet, there were usually quite a lot of Republicans (I assume) quick to accuse me of talking down to the GOP electorate or calling them stupid because I suggested that maybe, just maybe they aren’t voting in their best interests.
They *aren’t* voting in their best interests! There are so many studies that show that women, minorities, and lower-income people who vote republican are actively voting *against* their own self-interest. I have such a hard time understanding it, too, but then, if you look at most areas that are deeply conservative, they tend to be rural geographically, and often, not as educated as the average population. I don’t think that means the people voting are stupid, per se, but they are not as informed. And the republicans tend to not speak in terms of information, they speak in ideals. They say things like, “We’re going to make America great again!” and what those voters hear is “We will make things like they were sixty years ago, when independent agriculture and industrialization were driving the economy of the south and midwest.” The problem is, those jobs are gone forever thanks to the digital revolution and onset of the robotic revolution, but those voters can’t understand that. I’ve tried to explain to my GOP relatives, all of whom are farmers from rural Texas with no more than a high school education, that robots are taking over and we will soon live in a world with at least 50% unemployment, but they literally can’t grasp the concept. Robots are in movies, not real life. They don’t connect the GPS in their car to a robot and how that can change the delivery/freight industry. they just don’t have the awareness.
“There are so many studies that show that women, minorities, and lower-income people who vote republican are actively voting *against* their own self-interest.”
Let’s see those studies.
@ Alicia
I tried to reply with some links but it looks like that reply got zapped. Google “republicans vote against own interests/studies” and you’ll find plenty of results. Also look up the NYT US Assistance map. Almost across the board, the highest rates of people on government assistance falls within GOP states. Yet those same constituents regularly vote for the party trying to defund assistance programs (like SNAP, aka food stamps,the predominant user of which is white and rural, not urban and black).
No hate at all here. I completely agree with everything you said.
I will probably get a lot of flack for this, but I am so sick of the overuse of the word “privilege”. She came from a middle class family in upstate New York and worked her ass off to win the decathlon at a time when it was very much US vs Russia and was beloved for doing so. She parlayed that into endorsements and speaking engagements and got rich from that. Big difference between privilege and accomplishment from hard work. Privilege in my mind is people like Paris Hilton, the Smith kids, Hadid sisters, etc. People who were born into wealth with a sense of entitlement that contribute nothing of worth to our society.
She was born white, in America, in a middle class family. That is privilege. That doesn’t make her acomplishments any less impressive. But she wouldn’t achieve the things she did if she wasn’t given the opportunities.
^^^^THIS^^^^
Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
It has less to do with the access and opportunities granted to someone who is of a particular class or a particular level of wealth (although privilege doesn’t preclude wealth/class).
On its most basic, fundamental level privilege is dictated by social inequality and how that relates to gender, age, race, sexual orientation, etc.
I think part of being able to have an honest discussion about privilege with a large group of people, is being able to articulate and accept that there is a difference between enjoying a certain privilege (white privilege, male privilege, straight privilege, economic privilege) and being “privileged”. People hear “you have white privilege” and think someone is telling them that they are rolling around in a pile of gold coins. People are complicated, and many people are privileged in one aspect of their existence, but not in others (gay male, wealthy black woman, etc.), and obviously it is human nature to focus on your obstacles as opposed to your opportunities. The old definition of privileged was mostly associated with the 1%, where the newer sense of the word is much more relative. Defining what opportunities are unearned and what opportunities were earned will always be tricky.
She’s privileged now though. She wasn’t born into it, no, but the fact that she can’t or doesn’t want to relate to the trans’ community struggles shows me that she is an entitled person. She had a chance to really put a spotlight on this issue but instead she remains ignorant.
The reason she is less judged for being transgender is b/c she’s hanging out in that community.
Her former community of rich, white, “conservative” men don’t judge her- they just act as if she doesn’t exist.
Not so. Check out the comments on this same story on conservative blog Breitbart.com. They’re full of hate for Caitlyn because she is trans. They don’t care that she’s a Republican. They still hate her. It’s crazy that she’s laying it all on the line for a group of people who hate her, but I guess it can be hard to move past beliefs that you developed as a rich white man.
It does feel like a contradiction to me. The Republican party isn’t exactly a party embracing diversity. They’re a party that generally are pro upper white class christian male. What got me, and I think this was touched upon here was, how Caitlyn really wasn’t supportive of marriage equality. It thought that was such a contradiction. She wanted equality for herself and to be able to live her life the same as anyone else, but she didn’t feel the same for a gay couple. That was confusing for me because in my opinion, neither trans people or being gay is a choice. You are who you are, you know?
But anyway,yes, the Republican party probably doesn’t have Caitlyn or her interests at this point.
“The Republican party isn’t exactly a party embracing diversity.”
Well, neither are the Democrats. Hell, your average college has turned into a Stalinist, think-like-me-or-you’re-dead hellhole because of Democrats.
where I went to undergrad (and grad) it was nothing like that at all. In fact, it was quite the opposite. Gay people in particular were bullied and targeted and left with no recourse. And the “subtle” racism was palpable everywhere on campus. I’ve not encountered any “stalinist” “think like me or you’re dead” stuff you’re talking about but I’d bet it’s discussed in these exact terms on Fox News repeatedly until it seems like the truth.
You requested a link to a claim above, i’d love to see a link to your claim as well.
@Alicia:
This message board is starting to feel this way too. I’m neither Republican nor Deomcrat but I don’t appreciate the “if you are a Republican you should be shot” mentality on this board. Sheesh
I have watched both republican and democrat debates, because I want to know both view points. I was floured by the all out war against planned parenthood, and “Obama care” and other programs that are necessary for people who don’t meet their tax bracket. The Republican party also makes no qualms about their problems with LGBT and that they feel that marriage equality is going to ruin this country.
Then I watched the democratic debate and yes it’s boring, but it’s also civilized. They’re talking about issues that actually mean something. Such as income inequality and family leave, or at least Bernie has.
So the Republican party issues are planned parenthood, universal healthcare and LGBT. Democrats want more programs to help people out, social equality and family leave. It’s a no brainer for me.
The democrats need to put a little more focus on personal responsibility and family values which as a Democrat I feel is lacking.
Alicia, it’s generally a bad idea to invoke Stalinism – or the Nazis – for anything that does not actually involve the death of millions of people. It devalues the currency of debate.
It just ain’t right. (no pun intended)
Can she and the whole Klan go away? If she can’t figure out why she gets judged for that then she needs some serious perspective.
Caitlyn, you support a party full of politicians trying to legislate that you and other women like you can’t use the women’s bathroom. Of course people are going to judge you for that.
I cannot understand a person who thinks their sexuality, gender preference, marital status and etc. are unimportant to the cause of political change in this future.
If you are gay how much can low taxes matter to you vs. not being treated as s pedophile or have your choices linked to bestiality? If you are a woman how do you find value in a party that repeatedly believes you are unable to make the most personal decision a woman can make and would take away your right to make that decision?
To me it feels of “If I’m WITH them then I’m not a target for them.”. That is how Caitlin feels to me, that she thinks she’s still invited to the party when Republican politicians have made it quite clear they don’t want her endorsement or even to be associated with her.
If you don’t value yourself then do you not value others and how your party treats them? When they do say something is wrong with you, when they imply your mentally ill and shouldn’t be allowed near children, when they’d like to keep camps around that subject children to dangerous and destructive mental abuse to try and pray away the gay?
It seems selfish and especially coming from Caitlin who spends more time thinking about her makeup than the struggles of transgender women who can’t spend millions to become a Barbie doll.
Def!!!!!
You nailed it. I totally agree with everything you said.
Hear, hear!
I’m conservative. I say live and let live. How Caitlyn identifies has nothing to do with me. Her rights were bestowed on her by her Creator…not me nor the federal government. My interests are personal freedom for everyone. I can fully understand why Caitlyn or anyone else would identify as conservative.
@Meg:
You’re not truly a conservative.
Real conservatives are determined to make everyone else follow a conservative religious/political/fiscal/cultural agenda. They don’t know from “live and let live.”
You’re projecting. Big time.
What Alicia said.
I truly wish conservative people were like you, Meg.
If you proscribe to a live and let live philosophy and believe in fiscal responsibility, you aren’t conservative, you’re libertarian.
You believe in “personal freedom for everyone” except when it comes to women making their own health decisions, LGBT people marrying who they want, and so-called Christian values being forced on people when there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. Riiiight. Both parties are hypocritical but it always drives me nuts when Republicans say they believe in “personal freedom”.
There is a libertarian wing of the GOP that is drowned out by the religious conservatives you describe.
Basically, with the Democrats need to legislate everything under the sun, libertarian Republicans want to yack.
“Basically, with the Democrats need to legislate everything under the sun, libertarian Republicans want to yack. ”
But don’t they also ‘want to yack’ at the Republican need to legislate everything inside other people’s bedrooms and bodies, hearts and minds? ( with their attempts to limit and control what people can get for health care, who someone can marry, what constitutes a “family”, a woman’s access to reproductive services, etc, etc.)
I’m with you, Meg. I’m Conservative in the UK. I believe in gay marriage, abortion rights and the NHS. But no one is going to tell me I’m not a conservative. I want lower taxes (40% is about right, 50% is too much). I believe in private enterprise and getting rid of red tape. I’m skeptical about the EU, but will probably vote to stay in as that is the most conservative thing to do. I do not want the rail system, or anything else, to be renationalised. I’m a proud conservative. I’m just not a Republican.
Conservative is not the same as Republican. Many conservatives feel as you do. The American Republican party at this point, however, is a proto-fascist nativist, white supremacist party. A lot of less extreme people still vote for them out of habit. That should change if they really nominate Trump or Cruz, though.
Alexis: yes
. For those of you that don’t agree, do some more googling about Ronald Reagan, the rise of the Neo Cons and the history of the religious right, conservatives and the Republican Party. The relationship between the aforementioned factions were not always so intermingled until recently, American history-wise. Are there people that fall into all three categories (religious right, fiscally conservative and republican)? Yes. But as with all belief systems, they are not All-or-nothing. Think about it…don’t you know a few religious liberals? Or non-religious economic conservatives? I certainly do.
It will be interesting if the choices are Trunp or Cruz on the right and Sanders on the left. What a choice! I might just sit out the whole thing.
Your personal beliefs on her ability to live her life as she sees authentic and that relationship to her creator aren’t why her ‘rights’ are part of the political discourse.
The federal government has far too much (inhibitory) control over her rights, specifically equal rights under the law – medical, marital, taxes (in the form of marriage exemptions and death taxes), and therefor inheritance rights, adoption, to have a spouse or relationship partner make medical decisions, etc. She can afford her medication, procedures, therapy and so on, where the vast majority of trans people can’t. LGBT citizens of many countries don’t have the same access Caitlyn does to tax exemptions, lawyers to advise, trusts to transfer money through generations, etc.
Those are the ‘rights’ that make her political affiliation relevant and mind-boggling, and make her tone deaf to others who do not have equal rights under the law. Marginalized groups need the support of the lawmakers to ‘live and let live’.
Meg, amen.
You leave me alone, I leave you alone.
I am pro choice in that I beieve in an adults right to chose who their partner should be, marry, religion to practice, and what they do with their body. I will stay out of your bedroom and internal organs. It is not that difficult.
What always amazes me on this site is how most label those who believe in the conservative way as horrible human beings. You define as if everyone who votes republican is a hate monger of all others. That could not be more untrue for many “right wingers”.
Pretty sure it’s because we’ve all had horribly judgmental experiences at the hands of conservatives. My in-laws are conservative, and they are just as racist, sexist, anti-gay, and classist as you can possibly imagine, to the point where my husband has basically separated himself from them and tries not to spend time with them. Every dinner turns into “the muslims are doing this” or “that damn Obama, who isn’t even an american.” In my experience of 37 years living on thsi earth, I’ve yet to meet a person who identifies as conservative who doesn’t openly hate and/or talk shit about gays, Muslims, women, transgender people….I’d seriously and honestly love to meet one who doesn’t have these beliefs. Don’t get me wrong, I know people who identify as “fiscally conservative” and they make ABSOLUTELY SURE to let me know that they are NOT socially conservative. So if that’s the case, then ok, but otherwise? That’s simply not been my experience of conservatives.
My aunt and uncle (whom I love dearly) are on The Dark Side. They hate immigrants and think they’re ruining the country but have ZERO problem paying an illegal $30 a day to keep their house clean.
It’s shit like that….the f*cking arrogance, the hypocrisy…
The problem is what you’ve let your party become and pander to the far right wing Christian/Tea Party zealots. Look what you have to become to be a nominee for president in your party, fear speech, speaking to the lowest common denominator. Cruz is saying he does not believe incest nor rape is a reason for abortion. Mit Romney was moderate in some views when governor, but lowered himself and switched views on certain important issues in the primary to try to get nominated.
The candidates this election are a joke and frightening. So until you stop the inmates from running the asylum as far as presidential hopefuls, you have no chance of getting into the White House. My parents, who were about as conservative as you can get, Southern Baptist, and voted Republican and Democrat throughout their lifetime, were appalled by the state of the Republican Party. If they were, it’s pretty bad.
I would love to have an option during the election, but there is no option because of what the RP has become as far as ideology and presidential candidates.
It’s because they consistently are hateful towards people and holier then attitude is disgusting. There is nothing welcoming and their over zealous behavior with their bible is scary. I don’t see the difference between fanatical Christians and radical Islam. And I don’t want that in my government.
So let’s change that perception.
What part of Reoublican values do you strongly believe in that
make you vote on that party line and how do you wrestle those beliefs against the other documented abuses the party has done against more than half the population in some form or another?
stop trying to be logical 🙂
Abuses?
Is collecting tax money to distribute for welfare recipients “abuse”?
What the everloving F?
No Nymeria, but calling for the outright ban on abortion that disproportionately target the poor are abuses.
Taking money from productive systems we have in our country that benefit the disabled to put into business programs for the wealthy are abuses.
Having a police force that targets lower income POC for all crimes in spite of statistics showing that drug offenses on the other hand are committed by more whites is an abuse.
That’s the F, let me know if you need more examples.
I’ve never met anyone who calls themselves a “right winger” who wasn’t a gaseous windbag asshat. The most hateful, judgmental people I’ve ever met are self-described “right wingers,” including members of my own extended family who have caused terrible rifts to form over the years by throwing out LGBT cousins when they came out. My own mother didn’t speak to me for months last year just because I said I wasn’t planning on having a religious wedding ceremony. I haven’t been going to church for years, so I don’t know why she was surprised, but just my lapsed faith was enough for *my own mother* to cut me out *while I was planning my wedding.* My mom is a loud and proud “right winger.”
“I’ve never met anyone who calls themselves a “right winger” who wasn’t a gaseous windbag asshat.”
There’s a lot of hate and anger and ugliness in your heart. Sad.
Sad that her own family members put that hate and anger out there.
Please refer to the part where my own mother didn’t speak to me during my wedding planning simply because I’m not having a religious ceremony. Also, it’s possible to use words in a colorful turn of phrase and not actually feel all that much negative emotion.
Sounds like your mother’s issues go beyond her political affiliations.
Get to know some people who don’t throw their identity in your face. They’re usually the chilled people even if you don’t agree with their views.
If Republicans aren’t hate mongers, why are they voting for hate mongers in primaries? Where are the decent ones? That’s my two cents, my two cents.
What about killing people with her vehicle? Where does that fit into the flack trifecta?
I would appreciate republican’s “live and let live” attitude a bit more if the GOP wasn’t trying to enact legislation to force a probe up my vag when I want to choose what to do with my own body. Or wanting to deport the gays (per Ted Cruz pastor). And on and on.
It’s the hypocrisy that gets me. It seems Republican’s spend a lot of time on legislation to keep gubmint hands off: their money and their guns. But interfere constantly in the lives of people they hate: women, gays, poc, the poor.
You would enjoy the libertarian wing of the Republican Party. They’re the “you leave me alone and we’re cool” type of Republicans.
The people you’re describing are religious conservatives. Unfortunately, they drown out all of the libertarian or moderate voices in the party like Chris Christie or Jeb Bush. Looks like it is a race between the extremes with Cruz, Trump and Rubio on one side and Sanders on the other one. Yipes.
In my experience the people proclaiming to be the most open minded, diversity for all, are often the most close minded and say the most uneducated things because others don’t agree with them.
It doesn’t work that way.
I think because the Republican Party isn’t calling for the outright lynching of members of our population they believe that their views deserves a little respect.
But fundamentally saying someone does not have a right to make a decision for themselves because they are a woman, or that someone is incapable of being a parent because they are gay, or that they should not be able to get married not because of science, fact, or logic but because of something written in a book thousands of years ago that many of us don’t subscribe to isn’t worthy of respect.
Your party wants to discuss taxes eternally and cut them for the wealthy? Fine. I don’t agree with it but that’s a difference in opinion based on logic. Your party wants to torture gay people because they make them feel icky and scared and bible bible bible? That’s not worthy of respect.
You just proved Monica’s point.
No Monica’s point is that so long as it’s all gentlemanly we turn our back on injustice for the sake of preserving feelings. No one’s feelings are more important than someone else’s rights.
“No one’s feelings are more important than someone else’s rights”
I got chills and I immediately wanted to stand up and scream “YES!!!” Alas, I’m at work so I settled for a low-key fist pump.
You’re so good at cutting out the BS and getting right to the heart of things, ESE.
@ Kitten – Yep. A liberal’s feelings that my tax dollars should go to support someone else rather than remaining with me – because, you know, I earned them – does not supplant my right to not have to pay for someone else’s life or bad choices. Paying taxes for infrastructure is one thing. Paying for welfare or helping subsidize Obamacare is another thing entirely.
@Kitten
Thanks! Stuff like this gets me so fired up. I’ve been listening for years and I haven’t heard a reason yet that people don’t deserve their rights and that someone’s outdated feelings based on fear and ignorance deserves my attention instead. Nope. Pass on that.
Not to even get into the hypocrisy of half of the family values crowd carrying on in secret affairs or – GASP – canoodling with a homosexual intern or two.
Nymeria, because it would be much more preferable to let homeless and poor people die while the rich stay rich?
Your comment contained nothing “close-minded” or “uneducated” and therefore didn’t “prove Monica’s point” in the least.
Thank you, I love the cat in your ID.
Not all views are worthy of respect in a free society based on equality of opportunity and dignity between races, genders, and sexual orientation.
Exactly. There is no legitimate reason to deny people’s rights in a civilized society and the same people asking for their difference of opinion to be respected were on much more vicious courses in the past that we didn’t put up with.
You can identify as whatever you want, Cait. If you wanna be conservative that’s your choice. Just don’t fool yourself into believing these people care about you or your rights as a trans woman. Actually they do care – they fight for your rights to be as limited as possible.
Or maybe you’ll become the trans version of Stacey Dash.
Not all Republicans.
Anyone hear about her new make-up line? Only been a woman for a year and already making money off of being female. Actually, I think she’s been making money off of being female since she transitioned. Is her make-up that great? She’s no Kylie when it comes to make-up.
Bruce in womanface is as ignorant and self-centred as the old Bruce was. No change here.
Wow. Just, wow.
Can you not at least come up with something that isn’t a hackneyed Twitter cliche?
I feel like Kyle in South Park. I didn’t like Bruce Jenner and I don’t like Caitlyn Jenner. If I’m going to give her flack for anything it is for being a douche. It’s my fault, I know, for watching all those gawd awful episodes of Keeping Up with the Kardashians, but I couldn’t stand how her son/other side of the family just got shoved to the side. I couldn’t care less about her political affiliation…but it irks me that she says “I’m not a role model”. Guess what, Cait? You’re highly publicized and you received an Arthur Ashe Courage Award. You ARE a role model to people out there. Stop accepting accolades if you don’t want the responsibility that comes with them.
Actually as a liberal I am kind of glad that Caitlyn is remaining a conservative Republican. Here is why; It means conservatives can no longer put their head in the sand singing “Those Were The Days” and they can no longer legitimately claim that trans, gay, and questioning people are solely the domain of a liberal society and of the modern Democratic Party. The times have changed, they can embrace her or they can continue shrinking into smaller and smaller factions with a smaller and smaller demo to stand with.
I don’t know why anyone would be proud to be conservative or a Republican. To be either of those things requires thinking – and I use the word loosely – with a primitive reptilian brain. Repubs base all of their beliefs on fear and can’t think for themselves – they need religious texts to know right from wrong, whereas liberals know the difference by simply thinking critically about it and making their own decision. Republicans use their college educations to learn how to make a living, liberals use theirs to learn how to think critically. To be Republican is to be anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-everyone, and anti-progress. Nothing to be proud of, in my opinion.
you sound just as angry and ridiculous–not to mention painting with a broad brush–as your namesake.
Get a clue.
You must live in a liberal part of the country. Get out of the area to the Central Valley of California, to Alaska, to Arizona, to Texas, to upstate New York, or anywhere in the South or Midwest.
Anyway, I wouldn’t be so proud to not know any Republicans. That means you live in a very ideologically homogenous area.
I respect you for being a Republican transgender woman Caitlyn. That isn’t an easy road to drive in Hollywood or the Republican Party. I would make friends with Log Cabin Republicans. They can become a support group for you. They won’t give you s@?t for being transgender or Republican.
Clearly she’s not hanging out with any Republicans then. I wonder why?
The stereotypes and generalizations that exist along the political spectrum both annoy and bemuse me, A significant number of Americans are moderate and hold views from both primary platforms, There are issues of gay rights, women rights, environmental, foreign policy, fiscal policy, military presence, healthcare, social policy and on and on and on. I suspect Caitlyn is a foreign and fiscal policy conservative, a social liberal, and feels as if she has what she needs to operate successfully enough in this world……hence she votes republican. You may not agree…..you may judge……but seriously I have no more judgment for her than others. Politics,simply aren’t as simple or singular dimensional as this site sometimes presents.
I usually do not comment on this person but I’ll just say this: I don’t have time for clueless people muddying the waters surrounding women’s rights issues. And yes, of course she’ll get flack for being a Republican for the very reason that their record on women’s rights issues is abhorrent.