Oscar-nominated writer-director Richard Linklater seems like a really easy-going guy. There are no stories of Linklater blowing up at actors or acting like a douche or anything like that. He’s a Texan, born and bred. He grew up in Houston, went to college at Sam Houston State University and he now makes his home in Austin. Texas, like the rest of America, is complicated. There are parts of Texas which are quite liberal and progressive, and some places which are conservative and backwards. Back when Linklater was in college, in 1980, he was arrested and he spent a night in county jail in Huntsville. As Linklater tells GQ, he thinks he was arrested mostly for “driving WITH black,” as opposed to driving while black.
GQ: Have you ever been arrested?
Linklater: Only once. Back in college, in Huntsville, Texas. I wasn’t Driving While Black, but I was Driving With Black—my college roommate. I’ve had a bad history with cops. I’m the guy who never gets a warning ticket; they can’t wait to nail me. You know: Cops look at you and gauge if you’re friend or foe. I quickly fail the a–hole test. I’ve gotten a little better over time, but if I were black, I’d be dead four times over, just from the arguments I’ve had with cops.That night, past midnight, me and my buddy had thrown some cinderblocks from a construction site into the back of my truck. We were going to build some shelves in our college house. It was, like, $3 of material. But someone saw us and called it in. They saw us driving away—a white guy and a black guy—and pulled us over. It hit me years later that maybe if I’m with a white roommate, we wouldn’t have gotten pulled over.
Did they take you to jail?
Timothy Leary once said that the best education you’ll ever have is spending some time in jail. This was a Class C misdemeanor—theft—but yeah, we spent the night in county jail. It’s a good wakeup. You really get a sense for how the state owns you if you cross a certain line, and you come to appreciate your freedom. It’s not fun—but I think everybody should spend at least one night behind bars. County jail in some ways can be the most dangerous, because it’s often the least regulated. There’s very little oversight—people die in county because they’re not getting their medications and a lot of people are thrown in together with not much supervision.There was one guy in our cell who just screamed all night. Me and my buddy sat tight and did our best to steer clear of him. Later, we found out that there was someone locked up with us who’d murdered his family with an axe, but instead of shipping him off to state prison they were keeping him in county jail because he was really vigilant about washing all of the deputies’ cars. We always wondered if that was the same guy who’d been screaming all night.
I like that he acknowledges his privilege right up front by saying that he’d be “dead four times over, just from the arguments I’ve had with cops” if he happened to be black. That’s the point of the larger conversation Americans have been having about police violence against citizens: that respectability politics mean nothing, that white people will always be afforded a wider berth by police regardless of whether or not they’re arguing with police officers. Also: I’d be willing to bet that Driving With Black is just as much of a thing as Driving While Black.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I grew up in Houston and lived in Austin for 4 years. We go back every couple of years as my family are still there but yes doesn’t surprise me yes Austin is liberal but you can drive 40 minutes outside and it’s a different story. Took a friend from Scotland to some pretty little town we walk in to this diner and it was like a movie, forks with food mid air and mouths opened? My (white other half) oh I didn’t get that feeling at all I said of course you didn’t look at you? Unless you can walk in my shows don’t comment I said. I can only describe those sort of situations as if you were told you had to make a speech in front thousands and that weird anxious feeling comes over you. Well that’s me anyway. That said I can’t wait for his newest film.
I just had this exact same conversation in a restaurant with friends.
I figured out that when I try to explain privilege and how people are (understandably) oblivious to it sometimes, explaining how a left handed person has to make adjustments and navigate in a right handed world seems to connect well. Then I take it on a larger scale.
I had that same experience at at tiny little diner/country store that was part of/linked to a gas station in upstate NY.
BF and I walked in in our “fancy city clothes” (on the way home from a wedding), and everyone stopped and looked at us. it was, I kid you not, like a time warp. the people, clothes, hair-dos, decor…everything screamed out “1973”.
not a racial thing at all, but def a cultural Twilight Zone moment.
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I love Linklater.
I know exactly what he means about cops sizing guys up and determining whether they’re friend or foe–that was my big brother for the longest time. He was always a magnet for cops, even though he’s the nicest dude you’ll ever meet.
But I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for him if he was black. Instead of tickets, he’s probably end up dead or in jail.
It’s weird isn’t it? Cops just hate my husband and always have even now that he is 62 years old! He’s a tall good looking blonde, even still 🙂 but cops treat him like crap. He would certainly be dead or in jail. We live in Fort Worth btw!
Fort Worth is the best.
Reminds me of Eddie Murphy’s story about Texas:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vMpHqC5RyR8
My husband and I lived in the Dallas-Fort Worth area when we were first married. He is black and I’m white. We were driving from Houston where we had attended a wedding back up to Dallas, and I got pulled over for speeding. The officer had me step out of the car and go to the back of the car where he proceeded to ask me what my relationship was with the passenger and all sorts of weird questions. I ended up calling the police station the next day to complain about the unorthodox questions but they just blew me off. We now live in Arkansas. My husband was pulled over one night on his way to IHOP. The cop was going in the opposite direction but as soon as he passed my husband he turned around and turned his lights on. My husband was immediately pissed off because he knew he wasn’t speeding, he wasn’t doing anything wrong. He immediately had attitude with the cop and was challenging him on why he pulled him over and the cop said something like he was going to take his attitude as being aggressive towards him. My husband said “how am I the aggressive one when I’m just sitting here in my car, you’re the one standing out there with a gun?” and the cop just ended up saying “you know what, never mind” and walked away. Didn’t take his license or anything. I worry for my husband because he’s not one to back down from arguing and it makes me nervous.
That’s a scary story. Husband needs to ask/say only three things when pulled over: why was I pulled over? Am I under arrest? May I leave? That’s it. And if there are any extenuating circumstances, “I want a lawyer.” Those are only things that should leave his lips. Don’t answer any question any other way.
We had a similar experience on I-75, coming home from a concert in Detroit, in a rural stretch. BF changed lanes without a signal & was pulled over. They immediately made him get out of the car (” car matches description of _____”), questioned him about how we knew each other, called for back-up, and then questioned me about how we knew each other. Plus they shone their lights through the car, from the outside, to find something.
Scariest traffic stop I’ve ever experienced (and I’ve experienced previous stops with a black passenger). With them making him get out of the car, I had no idea what to expect.
FTR, my BF has no record, no outstanding tickets, etc. He’s one of the mildest-mannered people I know, which probably helped him not fail the attitude test of the cops.
And of course there was no ticket after all that.
Sorry, but theft is theft. I’d call the cops if I saw someone stealing cinderblocks, I don’t care if it cost $3 or $300. He got arrested for stealing, not for ‘driving with black’ and it irks me that he doesn’t acknowledge that.
“It hit me years later that maybe if I’m with a white roommate, we wouldn’t have gotten pulled over.” Call me naive, but I like to think he would have.
I think his point wasn’t that they were stopped and arrested, it was that they spent a night in jail for a $3 theft and what a good/scary lesson that was.
(Although, I have cousins in Texas and I agree. Two white good ol boys might have been stopped, and then given a warning and told to return the materials.)
The value of the theft DOES matter in the eyes of the court and changes the amount of fines, etc.
You’re right. Theft is theft…except that in neighborhoods across Ametican, white teens are let go with pats on backs and gentle warnings for the exact same infractions that black teens are jailed, sentenced, and/or shot for. I’d be more inclined to stick with your version of reality if every crime and infraction were treated the same, regardless of the person’s skin color. But they’re not so I’m not.
–TheRealPinky
Exactly, and that’s the point he was clearly making.
The cops were called because he and his friend were stealing, and I imagine the witness gave a description of his vehicle and possibly them. Why wouldn’t they be stopped? I’m sure there are many instances where that happens in the South, being stopped even if white while driving with a black friend or spouse. I just don’t think this was it. The officer was doing his job.
Eh, while I do agree that this isn’t the same as someone being pulled over for absolutely no reason (which happens all the time), one does have to wonder if the two of them would have been arrested for such a minor theft if they were both white.
My friend and I were arrested when we were 15 after she stole one tube of a drugstore brand lipstick. We were middle class white girls.
He stole from a construction site, and it got called in. End of.
I appreciate him sympathizing and understanding that things are not fair all the time. However, he was actually committing a crime. He wasn’t just driving. This seems mild compared to the things I’ve read.
The Washington Post has been doing stories on the cops of South Carolina and incredibly egregious offenses toward black people for which they are not punished and later are promoted. I mean…body cavity searches on the side of the interstate without probable cause (stopped because they had a temporary tag on their car) or forcing someone to undergo blood and STI tests at the hospital after pulling them over (black man in the car with a white woman).
This s#!t is real out here.
It’s almost embarrassing how hard he’s stretching here. He wasn’t stopped for “driving with black”. He was stopped because someone busted his stupid butt stealing from a construction site. It’s not the same thing and it actually kinda trivializes the actual experience. I’m white, so it hasn’t happened to me. But I can give countless better examples.
How about my ex-boyfriend who was pulled over for speeding? They found syringes in his glove compartment ALONG WITH A BOTTLE OF INSULIN. He was not intoxicated and there was no evidence of drugs, but he was charged with possession of drug paraphernalia. That was thrown out in court. He’s diabetic.
Or my current boyfriend. Sometimes it seems like he comes home with a story about the police at least once a month – always for no good reason. He looked “suspicious” or “matched a description”. There was even a time we were both drinking at Love Park in Philly and I guess a cop spotted us. YES – like Linklater we were breaking the law. We both had open beer cans in plastic bags that were tied off, but apparently his was too loosely tied and they could see the open tab. He got a ticket (almost $300!) for an open container. The cop asked me if mine was, too. I took a chance and flat out lied, “Nope. It’s a beer, but I haven’t opened it yet.” He side-eyed me hard, but let it go. That was a black male and white female duo. I feel like if he’d been the one to say no, they would have pushed it.
Or the time I was hanging out on a corner with him and a few of his black male friends. The cops came up – again one black and one white, it’s not just white cops who profile black men. They shook down a few of the guys and then basically asked me if I was ok. As if they’d kidnapped me or something?
I thought this was going to be a story about how he got pulled over and harassed just because he was with a black guy.
I think he probably would have been caught based on the make and model of his truck.
In my experience, a clean driving record has always been an asset when it comes to not getting a ticket. But I do agree with him about being dead due to the arguments he’s had.
Kind of a non-story, because they were committing a crime.
The bigger story with him is that Bernie lives in his garage apartment. Which reminds me, I need to follow up on his re-sentencing, which is going on now.
I agree with you- how “sweet” is somebody who murders another and stores the body? And let’s hope Bernie doesn’t decide to go “sweet” on Richard or his loved ones. I enjoy his movies, even Bernie, but yikes.
OT- we need a thread about that God awful article in the New Yorker about Gay Talese and the creepy voyeur/pervert.
The movie is fascinating in a terrible way. I started reading more balanced articles, and am not a Bernie fan. Matthew and Jack supposedly held a private fundraiser a few months ago to help pay Bernie’s new defense expenses, and apparently caught some flak. Apparently the once forgiving townspeople are not as warm towards Bernie now.
And the Talese article is just appalling. The motel voyeur guy just wants to increase the price of his card collection. He’ll probably get millions and a movie, too.
I live in Carthage Texas. NO ONE likes Bernie here and fear “that man will get away with murdering that poor woman”. So no, the townspeople have no love lost. I can’t even believe it, man…
@Angelica – I genuinely hope he serves more time. From what I understand, the movie didn’t depict the actual crime all that accurately, so it’s not surprising they may have also altered the townspeople’s general attitude. The movie made him seem like a hero.
I think some of you are missing the point on purpose. By pointing out that he was, indeed, stealing and therefore was pulled over justifiably by the cops you can emotionally detach yourself from the realization that punishment does not always fit crime when it comes to being African-American in this country. There is little mutual exclusivity here.
He makes three valid points here. He mentioned that stealing the construction materials was stupid. He makes it clear that the experience of spending the night in jail was not a traumatic one but rather, an important lesson. Looking back he can see that chances are high that they had to spend the night in jail for a $3 theft because he was with an African-American when he got pulled over. I would go so far as to say that the witness who called the theft may not have even done so had he been with another white guy. I mean can we even comprehend how much stuff white college boys get away with?
So his broader points do need to be acknowledged. And by pointing out that there are more catastrophic instances of racial profiling out there is to ignore the fact that most of those tragedies really do start out as something this innocuous.
Nicely put.
My friend and I got pulled over in New England years ago for black male driver with white female passenger.
One can try to say Linklater’s story was just about a theft, but it wasn’t. It was about racism.
I just googled class c misdemeanor in Texas and the current penalty is up to a $500 fine. No jail time. Perhaps it’s changed since this happened but I doubt that cop was going by the books.
Jerry Seinfeld had a web series ” getting coffee in cars with comedians when he and a bunch of comedians do just that get coffee and drive around in a car reality style
Well the only time he was stopped by traffic cop was when he had Chris Rock in the car and heres the kicker normally for a traffic stop the cop engages (at least first ) with the driver ,who was Jerry .In the case the cop ignored Jerry and made a beeline for the passenger side to Chris Rock ??? if its a traffic violation WTF does the passenger have to do with it ??
The Guy here is not saying he wasn’t wrong , he just saying that blackness and adjacency to blackness produces a disproportionate (sometimes fatal )response from the Law
THIS….. i just want white people to acknowledge everything as he just has and if you havent experienced that then acknowledge that you operate and benefit off of white privilege…. and I can speak for all black people and say that his story and his REAL empathy and story means sooo much…. and brings visibility….
Exactly. And some of the comments such as ‘well, I’m white and this didn’t happen to me” are really grating. Sure, let’s be specific when we clearly need to be general. Let’s throw up a smokescreen when we need to be looking at the broader, sadder truths in Linklater’s story. Let’s focus on the misdemeanor instead of the fact that doing anything while black can get you killed in America.
I’m so fed up with people privileged enough to go through life with blinders on. But now that i think about it, such vehement insistence that nothing is wrong clearly betrays their inner realization that things are, indeed, very wrong.
Ugh.
i won’t even drive through texas. so many scary stories from all kinds of people from all walks of life. if it means an extra 14 hours drive to avoid the state it is worth the peace of mind not to be harassed or worse. texas has an earned reputation their law enforcement is above the law. scary.