E!: ‘Zero chance’ of an Affleck Garner reconciliation: what is going on?

Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner have tense discussion at the Farmers Market
This photo is from last September

Yesterday People Magazine reported that Ben Affleck wants Jennifer Garner back and that he’s changed and done a lot of work on himself. They also claimed that she was taking her time making up her mind about whether to get back with him, but it sounded like a done deal. This was in People Mag and the story even got a side mention on the cover. However within a few hours E! had a story up which completely contradicted People’s account and claimed that these two are “absolutely” not reconciling. E!, US and People used to have stories about Ben and Jen which were basically the same insider quotes phrased slightly differently, and the Garner-Affleck PR team would contact Page Six occasionally, but this one just changes the story totally. Here’s E!’s report:

While some reports are stating the exes might find themselves reuniting in the near future, a source tells E! News that’s simply not the case.

“There’s absolutely no shot of a reconciliation,” the insider says, point-blank. Rather, the two are mostly focused on raising their three children—Violet, 10, Seraphina, 7, and Samuel, 4—under as normal circumstances as possible given their situation.

A second source adds, “They are just doing a really good job of co-parenting. They are working really hard to create normalcy for their kids. That is their focus…”

Affleck is currently filming the movie The Justice League Part One in London in which he reprises his Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice role of Batman.

“They were really excited to show their kids Europe,” another insider told us.

In April, we learned that Garner and the kids planned to visit Affleck while he shoots the DC Comics film and would be renting a property in London for about a month. Garner plans to travel back and forth between Paris and London while he films.

[From E! Online]

So are they playing both sides here to get more publicity or is this a case of Garner’s side vs. Affleck’s side? Like she thinks they’re getting back together and he’s given her indications that this is happening (i.e. sleeping with her) but he’s not committed enough to make that statement publicly and still plans to divorce her? I think the playing both sides explanation makes more sense, because if that’s not the case I just feel sorry for Jen. Like way to get egg on your face. And if it played out that way and he just shot her down in the press… that’s painful.


All these photos are from last September. Credit: WENN.com

Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner arrive at a building in Santa Monica

Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner arrive at a building in Santa Monica

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72 Responses to “E!: ‘Zero chance’ of an Affleck Garner reconciliation: what is going on?”

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  1. Carol Hill says:

    Your interpretation of this is different from mine. I thought that He wanted to get back with her and she is saying no. If she has not learned from her years of marriage to Ben, then she deserves him.

    • Sara says:

      That’s how I read it too.

    • Char says:

      Exactaly what I was thinking as well. Maybe he thought it would get her to take him back faster if it was out in the press.

    • Sarah(too) says:

      I’m glad I’m not the only one confused by Celebitchy’s interpretation. It seemed the other way around to me.

    • Zuzus girl says:

      I was confused by Celebitchy’s reading of the situation too. I think he needs her more than she needs him, emotionally speaking.

    • perplexed says:

      That’s what I thought was going on too.

    • WhatAmIDoingHere? says:

      Probably his team vs. her PR. He probably wanted it out there that he still loves her and she shut it down! Lol

    • TreadStyle says:

      I don’t think Garner would ever want it to officially be over. She’s put up w the same crap for years, it’s just this time it happened to go public so she had to act mad/done so she didn’t look like a fool. I 100% think her party put out the Ben wanting her back, so she could encourage that and show people “see he still loves me and our kids the most”. When Ben got publicly caught cheating he was still meeting use the girl and she was coming over to his place and he saw paparazzi and still did it. To me that is someone who is officially done w a relationship. You don’t get caught and instead of immediately trying to save face w your wife you just continue to see the mistress if you are actually upset about ruining your marriage. He knows doing stuff w his family now (trips & such) is the only thing he can try to save his public image. But I don’t think for a second he’s the one wanting to stay together.

    • A says:

      I’d trust People over E though – her publicist definitely gave the nod for them to run the story, and they’re quoting sources close to Garner.

  2. als says:

    Why would they play both sides? Why would Garner play both sides? Her narrative is how Ben wants her back and she is still not ready.
    It is more likely that Ben just reacted to yesterday’s article.
    I think they communicate through magazines, which is a special kind of emotional hell.
    This is not a life!

    • Sarah01 says:

      Yes I think that’s it. That’s is how they communicate. I believe Ben has issues and Jen enables him. They are toxic for each other. I think Ben should be a bachelor for life he really doesn’t suit the marriage setting.
      Jen if she was this ambitious and used this level strategic maneuvering I’ve seen from her she’d do rather well in Hollywood. Even if she’s a mediocre actress at best.

      • Boo says:

        Agree here. Jen has gone on record not long ago saying he’s the love of her life and what is she supposed to do about that? She went after him, got pregnant, he’s a good boy from Boston who loves his Mom so what does he do – he marries her out of obligation and thinking ‘why not?’ Meanwhile, Jen from that moment on was in hyper control mode and has been ever since.

        Ben is a bachelor, always was and will be. She picked him. But he’s had enough of her manipulations is how I read today’s latest. The public smackdown in the tabloids today is letting her know – finally – he’s done and she needs to quit trying to manage and control his life.

        At least that’s how I read it. lol I can’t stand Jen for what she did to both Scott Foley and Michael Vartan so any pain Affleck can make her wear is good by me. She deserves it.

      • als says:

        @Sarah: Exactly. If she used her abilities to make a name for herself in addition to Christian movies and mommy mafia and being Affleck’s wife she would be happier and more respected.
        @boo – ‘public smackdown’. Lol
        Agree, pefectly put!

    • Wren says:

      I think they’re playing both sides because this is simply a story line. Their press has been so carefully scripted, it’s almost unbelievable. They’re not sure which direction to take, so they’re testing out different endings. Or they want to pave the way to go either direction. Meaning they are actually toying with the idea of getting back together (love and family conquer all!) but they (Jen) want to be certain of an easy way out should that go sideways.

      It’s been too much like a Lifetime movie so far and so meticulously covered for me to be anything but cynical. We’ve seriously had regular installments of this saga for months.

  3. Mgsota says:

    I think they will reconcile. And while I think it’s admirable to coparent in a harmonious way, this is something different. It’s basically like nothing has changed. They still live together, they travel together, they spend holidays together. I’m sure it will be very confusing for the kids if they really are going to eventually divorce.

    • Embee says:

      I’m not sure about reconciliation ( I think he wants to want her but doesn’t) but Hell YES to the creepy way they are “co-parenting”. Co-parenting is facilitating the “separate households have same rules” concept and working together to not disparage the other parent or cause the children to believe it is their fault. Whatever they are doing it is NOT co-parenting. It’s basically cohabiting which begins to make sense now that I type it because they appeared to be doing exactly that for much of their marriage anyway. The whole thing screams dysfunction. They seem literally unable to get out.

  4. JoJo says:

    I don’t know, but I do want to know why the reconciliation rumors haven’t been shot down or commented on one way or the other by Gossip Cop. You know GC is trying to get a denial or some kind of official
    comment. As late as late April, GC got a reconciliation denial from Jen’s rep. Those two have been very quick to try to shut down all rumors and attempt to control their narrative via GC over the last year, so why aren’t they now? And in the past, GC has also posted when they aren’t able to get comment from either of them. Like during the split speculation media frenzy last April/May, GC posted a story saying that they weren’t hearing back from their regular Ben and Jen sources, which was not the norm, so even they were speculating that a split was in the works. It’s pretty bad – their older kids have to be aware of the media stories. How confusing. What is wrong with them, especially Jen. Someone somewhere recently said she’s made it her full-time job being Mrs. Ben Affleck – so true. Seems like a drug she can’t quit.

  5. HappyMom says:

    I figured it was the reverse. He wants her-or at least wants the public to think he’s “working on himself” and trying to win her back. I think she went to E and refuted the story.

  6. Lisa says:

    Why don’t all of these sites state who their “sources” are and what their relationship is to Ben and Jen, and we’ll decide who would be the most credible. Because some of these sources are flat-out making stuff up and the publications are still running the stories, unverified or not. I’m thinking that the E News source is the most credible here, because anything linked to the Daily Mail has to be garbage.

    • Gin says:

      Tabloids print stuff that is 100% fiction much of the time. That’s why they refer to “sources” because they can’t say “we just made this up”.

      How many celebrities should have extra kids by now given how often they’ve allegedly been pregnant?

  7. Mel says:

    They’re denying it to not embarrass her and make her look dumb. A few weeks or months later they’ll confirm their reconciliation and make it seem like he begged her and she had to be convinced to take him back and that he’s “changed”. In reality, he finally came around and she immediately said yes.
    Do they think we’re stupid? The minivan majority might buy it but I certainly won’t.

    • Mel says:

      Or maybe they’re still having sex but still getting divorced. Its weird but common.

    • Brenda says:

      So her people planted a story about how he wants her back, but she’s not sure, only to turn around and deny it to E News, so that strangers on the internet wouldn’t think that she’s dumb? What kind of Ringling Brothers hoop jumping is this? Farfetched. They’re divorcing. They reached the point of no return or she would never, ever have issued a statement about their intent to divorce. And anyway, plenty of people already think that she’s dumb for keeping him around for as long as she did, his cheating did not begin or end with the nanny. Her status as the World’s Biggest Doormat would be confirmed if he is the one who files for divorce, not her. She’s pathetic.

      • Mel says:

        No…i think they’re already together but she wants to set a certain narrative first.

  8. Jayna says:

    Jen, he’s just not that into you anymore. Give it up. The swift denial by Ben says it all.

    • Kitten says:

      I’m just here for your comments because you’ve been saying this since Day 1.

    • Magnoliarose says:

      So true Jayna. Because he does the thIngs he does and her Earth Mama image people can’t seem to get that he’s never been 100 percent in the marriage.

  9. lisa2 says:

    There is nothing I have seen in Ben that says he wants her or the marriage back. I just don’t see it. He looks miserable most times. And he was asked about her in an interview and he talked about them Co parenting.

    I think her and the kids being with him during filming will cramp his style. And maybe Jen wants to do that on some level. I find this whole thing just strange.

    Divorce or get back together; but stop confusing your children.

    • Jwoolman says:

      The kids might not be at all confused. They are used to their dad being elsewhere for long periods. Kids are more flexible than many people realize.

  10. Monica says:

    Battle of the unnamed sources! The Daily Fail has been running fake stuff about these two for a few weeks now, kissing… back rubbing… all without pics (really?), all from one source, of course, completely fabricated. Ben does not want her back and that’s what the E News thing is. He isn’t even bothering to pretend for the paps. He is totally checked out.

  11. Hudson Girl says:

    Or one of the stories/sources could be incorrect. The Afflecks could have gotten annoyed with all the negative stories (instead of feeding them like we assumed). Maybe they are giving different people different stories to find the leak?

  12. HH says:

    Everyone really goes hard on Jen, and I’m not sure why. Breakups and divorces are already difficult when you deeply love someone, add on the fact that this person is a great parent to your children and I’m sure feelings get very muddled, very quickly.

    • Kitten says:

      Hmmmm, a compassionate and fair comment about these two.
      You clearly don’t belong here lol.

    • anniefannie says:

      I totally agree! When I read the VF article and she commented that ” Ben sucks up all the attention and oxygen in every room” ( paraphrasing) I thought uhhh ohhh she’s not close to over him. It would be hard to deal w/ a cheating spouse if all your neighbors/friends knew let alone this macro level. I have a lot of sympathy.

    • Jayna says:

      Aw, I like Jen. I do snark on her too much sometimes lately. You make me feel bad. LOL I think she’s sweet and a great mom, but I still feel like she needs to loosen the reins on Ben a bit in their co-parenting situation since he looks so miserable a lot of the time and move forward as it’s now a year later. Although, for the most part, I think they are on the same page regarding the children.

    • Ashley says:

      I have a hard time feeling sorry for her. She knew who he was when she married him — that’s what she claims anyway. He’s been cheating on her for years, and she’s only divorcing him because his dalliance with the nanny became public and she has to or look like a massive idiot. If it hadn’t, I think she would still be with him, no question. I just can’t respect a person who looks the other way like that. Get a backbone and some self-esteem. She wouldn’t want her daughters to be treated like that by boyfriends or husbands, I’m sure. As it is, both girls are probably doomed to marry men like Ben.

      • Jayna says:

        They were separated. They waited until the kids got out of school and went on vacation and had the children away for them to announce it. They announced they were getting divorced. The nanny was with them. Within days of the announcement while on vacation she finds something out about Ben and the nanny down there and sends her packing.

        The nanny had nothing to do with the announcement of them divorcing, or she wouldn’t have been on the trip with them. I believe Jen on that when she said it had nothing to do with it as they were already separated, but bad form by Ben.

      • NotJen says:

        @Jayna The whole nanny situation is still weird to me. He took his girlfriend on vacation with them after they announced their intention to divorce. Then the pics of her on his plane came out. He denies everything of course, like he denies everything initially. However if it’s all innocent and the nanny was going to help with the charity thing, why was she fired? There had to be a reason that she was fired. I would loooooove to know all the sordid details with that one but they must have paid her off good for her to totally disappear like this.

      • Jayna says:

        Well, he didn’t take her. Jen did supposedly because the nanny had a fiancee down there also. Little did she know there was at the least a flirtation going on with them. There was another nanny down there also. Maybe the other nanny saw something and relayed it back to Jen and the shit hit the fan and she packed her off. Or the other story was the nanny was acting all weird because of a breakup or trouble with her fiancee and so she packed her off. because she didn’t want that drama around the kids

        Ben was leaving also for the charity function in Las Vegas. Of course, it got worse. Because he gave her a supposed lift back to California on the private plane he was in but never dropped her off, kept her on the trip with him. More insult to injury for Jen.

    • Leah says:

      I agree. He cheated multiple times not just on Jen but on other girlfriends. Yet she gets the worst comments as if somehow she forced him to stay with him all these years.
      I find it weird that he often gets a pass especially when you compare it to other celebrity men who are being trashed for their cheating. Take for instance Zayn who has been vilified because he cheated at 20 years of age, Ben is about 45, has 4 kids and a marriage and is still at it. Go figure, why commentators are so soft on him..

      • Celine says:

        Do people go soft on him? We have known about his bad habits, addictions, and his perpetual status as a cad for like 20 years. We know this man is not changing.

      • Kitten says:

        People are “soft” on him? Where?
        Certainly not in this forum.

    • Wren says:

      I agree breakups are very difficult. However, I don’t doubt for a second that Jen is the one in control here. Not of Ben’s behavior but of how he and their family are viewed. She’s orchestrated the whole media narrative and has done it admirably. She’s a master of making everything relatable and real, but without a blemish on her. Sure, people say she’s a doormat for keeping him so long, but then she just pulls out the love and/or kids card and really, how many of us haven’t been at least tempted to stay in a not great situation because of either of those things? Basically he’s the one with problems and her only flaw is loving him, if you go by the media stories.

      She’s smart and good at what she does. She’ll be fine.

    • als says:

      With all due respect, I’d like to punch love in the face and make it go away for a few decades. Garner may love her husband but love is not always a good thing, it depends on who is handling it.
      Today the concept of love has become so overhyped that everyone uses it as an excuse for the sleeziest deeds. Cheating is not cheating anymore, it’s called ‘finding your soulmate’ – implying that the spouse was a temporary distraction.
      In the name of love for her children, Garner made a career for herself by exposing them to pap walks. Why couldn’t she settle to her acting career?
      I’d like love to take a back seat and bring back concepts like loyalty, integrity, resilience, modesty, honesty, discipline. The world would be a better place.

  13. Amy says:

    What’s unfortunate is that publications that used to be reputable and would only print things that have been 2- or 3-times verified are now running anything and everything sent to them from anyone (People Magazine, I’m looking at you). Garner’s rep denied that she was pregnant and confirmed that they are still divorcing to Gossip Cop a couple of weeks ago. I don’t believe any war between these two is playing out in the media like some of you. I think some stans are pretending to be insider sources and the tabs are running with it because they’re getting clicks. I don’t buy that he wants her back for even a second. He looks totally checked out, like he has for a long time. If they start holding hands or wearing their wedding rings again, then yes. But until then? Co-parenting like they told us over and over again that they were going to.

    • Jayna says:

      He is checked out. I agree.

      And People Mag isn’t the reliable source it used to be at all. It’s scrambling to fill pages like every other mag these days.

  14. Nancy says:

    We are never ever ever getting back together. That would be my war cry if I was her. I can imagine there are scenarios where a discretion could be forgiven. But in this case, he so publically humiliated her. With children, especially so young, they have to be brought into the decision making, but at what price. I so wouldn’t want to be her. For whatever reason, when someone talks about Benji, I conjure up the imagine of him kissing Jlo as he was about to dump her, and he had that side eye going on, as if he was trolling the crowd. Just a big A hole to me.

  15. JoJo says:

    You don’t “coparent” by spending every waking moment together. Please! That’s such an impossibly lame excuse, I can’t even believe anyone buys it at this point. Coparents do not spend THiS much time together. Church, weekends, dropping kids off at school, dropping Jen off at gym, all vacations, birthdays, holidays, living together, etc. No way. No how. No. No. No. For those reading into the People story that Ben wants her back but she’s saying no, again, this is completely obvious. It’s not that she’s saying “no” at all. It’s just setting the stage for when they decide to be a couple again in public. It’s putting it out here that Jen isn’t sure, she’s making him pay, she’s not going to take him back easily. She wants us to know this so she doesn’t look like a doormat. The reality, as I think we all should know by now, is that she never had any intentions of leaving him even last June. She just just wanted shake him up and put him through the wringer a bit (and I’m sure he deserved it, even though I’m a Ben fan.) Jen will always always, always say yes and go back to Ben. She just wants us to think she’s not making it easy for him. Why do you think she has been so impossibly tight lipped and awkward whenever the subject of dating comes up. Because she never intends to date! As for Ben, hard to tell – I’ve never thought he was into her in the same way, always thought they were the a very odd match. Agree Ben looks miserable, and I think she has kept him very close under the guise of “you need to be here constantly for the kids.” There are millions of dysfunctional couples walking around, and I think they’re going to continue to be an example of one.

    • Mel says:

      I agree….but what about those sightings of them being affectionate? There’s 2 or 3 different sightings and they can’t all be eyewitnesses, which means its coming from her team. Doesn’t that contradict the theory?

  16. NotJen says:

    Just one of many couples who rushed into marriage because of a baby. I believe the wheels came off years ago but due to her low standards, blind eye and total infatuation with him, the marriage limped along for a decade. These two are such polar opposites, why did they think this would ever work out? The bad boy and the good Garner girl and neither one is smart enough to do what needs to be done. Lol. I feel sad for their kids. They deserve to grow up without being paraded in front of the photogs when their parents need good press.

  17. frivolity says:

    Throughout their relationship, she has been the one who has passive-aggressively pushed the narrative of the perfect couple and perfect family via the press. Ben could never disparage the perfect wife in the narrative, for fear of alienating all of the fans she so earnestly cultivated. But Ben gave all sorts of subtle and not-so-subtle hints publicly that the fairy tale was a lie. I think Jen is trying to force his hand to take her (and the family) back. I think he’s had more than enough, but cannot outright say so, so does it in the press. What a dysfunctional way of living. I feel for the kids. They are going to be screwed up because no matter what happens with appearances on the surface, many kids can sense what’s truly lingering below – and it’s not good.

  18. QQ says:

    Dear Freaking God Please STOPPPPPP they really need to stop this thirsty ass back and forth of dual leaks to the press ffs
    Jen Is sad
    Ben is devastated
    Jen Is Moving on
    Well I didn’t F*ck the Nanny
    Well Is Ok cause I’m moving on look I curse now
    *lets appear together in public but continue doing press salvos*
    Oh But Now Im Happy FYI
    Is Ok I Have a Movie and Im sad, You wanted me sad
    No Not really You were the love of my life
    Oh GOOD I was thinking we could get back
    LOL No

  19. Shayna says:

    Unrelated kinda but I was over on Ben’s imdb board and found a post titled “He’s a big ol’ LIAR.” He apparently dodged an NY Times interview by complaining of a migraine but really he was dressed up as Batman for his son’s birthday party. LOL. He has serious trouble telling the truth. I mean, I can’t even imagine what it was like to be married to this person for ten years. How could you trust a word out of his mouth, EVER? Fincher said it best, duplicitous.

    • Kitten says:

      LOL I love how your takeaway from that story is “Ben is a jerkface liar”.

      Dressing up as batman for his kid’s bday?


      I can’t even imagine what you would think of me calling in sick to work the other day.
      And I don’t even have kids–I just felt like going shoe shopping.

      • Shayna says:

        It’s a question of integrity. He lied to the man who was scheduled to interview him. This is not about the birthday party. Are you really this dense?

  20. Katy says:

    Jen and her kids move back to LA in June. When they leave get ready for stories from London of Ben carousing, drinking and partying heavily and hooking up with randoms, Ben was hooking up in LA too on the dl. People magazine went to twitter looking for a scoop, their sources are twitter users that had a sighting of ben and Jen in Paris and the hotel staff in Paris. I believe US and Enews before People, remember US is where jens pr went to give full on details of their break up last year AND they had the exclusive on the nanny too. USweekly is reporting “no reconciliation” just like ENews, there will be none. Ben could give two sh!ts about Jen, didn’t love her then doesn’t love her now.

  21. Gs says:

    Omg her rep said he want her back via ppl mag and his side said no to E? They are tiring.

    He doesn’t know what he want until he is sure he is safe like I said yesterday…
    She obviously wants to stay it’s said all along..
    But at this point the blame is on him he is pussssy. If he wants out he should file….him.If not stop playing media game. If they need time then act like you are actually a separated couple that way there will be no media game of a kind. There was no this with gp divorce.

    • Celine says:

      Their reps haven’t said anything other than they are not reconciling. Posters are speculating that their reps are behind all of these stories but that seems completely ridiculous and counterintuitive to me.

  22. Ana says:

    Ben should file soon! If he really wanted out so badly then, concentrate on removing one big obstacle in his life. His marriage! Then, he can concentrate on Batman and his other “activities ” without being an villified by the public.

    As for Jennifer, she had most of the public sympathy on her side but if this keeps going whatever sympathy she has got going will slowly decrease. She is just smoke and mirrors. It will backfire on her big time and she will be called one big B. Stop playing the public and the press! It is getting too old! Concentrate on getting movies, whatever they are!

  23. Magnoliarose says:

    They are both dysfunctional and their children are paying the price. He screwed around with their caregiver. She confirmed it. So when they are older, they will look back and wonder if they saw anything that was inappropriate. I know it is hard to let go of “the one” especially when they’ve decimated your balance and emotions. I imagine she’s tried everything to be what she thinks he wants but he’s always been unpredictable and at times so distant it most likely hurts.
    He is toxic for her and people like him can drive you to do things you know aren’t right for you. I think her love for him has always been deep and real and now she is devastated. She needs to forget these unhealthy attempts at co parenting and build a new life. He has always made it painfully clear (publicly) that he is miserable with her.
    Unless he gets serious help and therapy he is not going to change. This is who he has always been.
    Step back Jenny G and think of your children. He’s not all that. I promise.

  24. Ana says:

    They can’t protect the kids from the Internet. The will see that their life was a circus when they were young.

    Both parents are passive aggressive and love the tabloids! Both are narcissistic at the children’s expense. They are not good parents after all.

  25. Anna says:

    People are getting so sick of these two and I am one of them. Yeah I could just avoid posts like this one but I get sucked in. I will state for the record that I can’t stand Jen Garner, never could. I think her whole minivan persona is as fake as her upper lip and new boobs. What does she really do all day that she needs an army of nannies anyway? I mean besides the daily gym and coffee strolls for the paps and scheming with her PR team. I think she must sit around and google herself while other people take care of her kids and clean her house. Sweet Earth Mama from West Virgina, my foot. She willfully married and proceeded to have children with a dude who had sex with a stripper which ended his previous relationship. She is a total moron.

  26. Sandy says:

    I can’t believe I actually feel sorry for Ben Affleck for being married to this stalker!

    • Beatrice says:

      Funny, but pretty close to the truth. Jen is a total doormat to keep up this charade by calling it “co-parenting”.

  27. The Original Mia says:

    Zero chance sounds more like a Garner thing than Batfleck, who still needs his “happy family” image. Jennifer doesn’t need to portray that image to bolster her career. She’s got scorned, humiliated woman/mother going for her.

  28. Susan says:


    Sorry I just wanted to complete this discussion and it was missing a couple of key issues.

  29. Joy says:

    The People story seems like a Garner leak and Ben took the “E” route and shut it down. There’s no way in hell that dude wants back in on this marriage. Judging by some of her recent interviews however, Jen would be all for reconciling. Which is a shame because dude is so not into her.

  30. JoJo says:

    Ironically, Jen Garner said on Dr. Oz, “I don’t see people changing in some huge way. You are who you are.” Her point was that people remain who they are fundamentally, who they have always been, and they don’t change very much. Interesting that she somehow exempts Ben from this logic. #ofcourse