When I went to bed last night, the Brexit/Bremain votes were still being hand-counted in the UK. Rachel Maddow had analysts on saying that yes, the vote was on a “knife’s edge,” but pollsters said Bremain would likely win by a very slim majority. As it turns out, not so much. Brexit won. They had the votes. With the majority of districts in (as I’m writing this), Brexit has a clear majority of 51.9%. And as you can see from these photos, David Cameron has already resigned as prime minister. I feel sorry for Cameron. History will show that he was right about Bremain.
Celebrities in the UK and beyond have been reacting to Brexit online. You might think “who cares about what celebrities have to say about this?” but Brexit is a severe blow to the UK film and television industry. Producers, directors, actors and film crews in the UK almost unanimously came out for Bremain because UK productions get a lot of money, tax breaks and talent from EU countries. Michael Ryan, the chairman of Independent Film & Television Alliance, told media outlets:
“The decision to exit the European Union is a major blow to the UK film and TV industry. This decision has just blown up our foundation – as of today, we no longer know how our relationships with co-producers, financiers and distributors will work, whether new taxes will be dropped on our activities in the rest of Europe or how production financing is going to be raised without any input from European funding agencies. The U.K. creative sector has been a strong and vibrant contributor to the economy – this is likely to be devastating for us.”
250 prominent UK celebrities signed an open letter a month before the vote and the letter was widely derided (in the conservative UK press) as the “luvvie letter.” And not for nothing, but this is going to affect Game of Thrones too, the bulk of which films in Northern Ireland.
Many economic analysts believe that the UK is about to “plunge” into a recession, a recession which could have lasting (years-long) effects on the European and global economies. The pound has already plummeted. Some assorted tweets.
No matter the outcome, #Brexit polls demonstrate how quickly half of any population can be convinced to vote against itself. Quite a lesson.
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) June 23, 2016
I don't think I've ever wanted magic more. https://t.co/gVNQ0PYIMT
— J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) June 24, 2016
Congratulations exiters. Reverse is across and down, easy on the clutch.
— Hugh Laurie (@hughlaurie) June 24, 2016
BREAKING: #Brexit voters surprised that a vote for self-destruction is actually a vote for self-destruction.
— The Greek Analyst (@GreekAnalyst) June 24, 2016
Wonder if #Brexit voters this a.m. are all, "The pound did WHAT? And the markets… Uh, that was just a practice vote yesterday right?" -H
— Heather & Jessica (@fuggirls) June 24, 2016
Remain fought a shockingly deluded campaign. Refused to engage properly with immigration debate. Insisted it was about economy. It wasn't.
— Piers Morgan (@piersmorgan) June 24, 2016
Scotland will seek independence now. Cameron's legacy will be breaking up two unions. Neither needed to happen. https://t.co/4MDj7pndcq
— J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) June 24, 2016
Donald Trump, arriving in Scotland to visit his golf course, calls #Brexit a “great thing” https://t.co/kUFURPMwxp
— CNN (@CNN) June 24, 2016
Photos courtesy of WENN.
genuinely super depressed about this. At my work, we all voted Remain. (science/health researchers). Quite a sombre mood in the office.
I’m so sorry mlle. This will affect your field directly won’t it? Funding alone will fall dramatically. For every £1 spent by Britain on scientific research the EU were providing them with I think £1.40.
Yep — tell me about it. Most of our department is EU funded…I mean, nothing will change immediately, but…everything is up in the air 🙁 Thanks for the support, though 🙂
Now Britain can reinvest in their own country instead of into the EU. Britain will be stronger, safer and better.
Britain negotiated all kinds of advantages working within the EU. Now it won’t have enough money to invest in itself, because the EU was subsidizing its endeavors.
@michelle, the underlying really bad aspect the “leave” mouthpiece had a anti-immigrant sometimes racist message and it should scare everyone that type of person won the vote. It won’t make the UK stronger anytime soon, probably the very opposite of it.
Good news. I’m always happy whenever the march towards a One World Government is stalled. And that clodhopper David Cameron is gone too. Win-win.
Yes, because serving many governments has been such a blessed thing for the world, what with 2 world wars and some such…
Well, just reading that GoT might be axed is a positive! I’m trying so fine some GOOD in this !
OK Dangles, I’ll bite. Which One World conspiracy? The Masons, Illuminati, End of Days, IKEA, Disney, White Walkers?
The problem with this view, I think, Dangles, is that globalisation has already happened. Capital is now international. This comes at the cost of a reduction in power for national governments. What other counterbalance to the influence of capital is there but for supra-national institutions?
Sixer, you made comments a while back about the need for stability. I keep thinking about that as things have been falling a part.
Tiffany – stability was my primary reason for voting Remain. I don’t think governments across the world have done anywhere near enough to prevent another financial crash happening and crises such as Brexit (or, indeed, a Trump presidency) will make one more likely. Until we do have solutions to that risk, I think we should all be voting on the least risky option on everything.
Agreed!
@kiiten and GNAT: the poster u aimed to meangirl with “condescending, rude and pompous” … wasn’t. But you were.
No need to google those terms if you have a mirror handy. You’re smart people but not as all-knowing as you seem to think.
@Tara-Not sure why your comment is here nor why it is directed towards myself and GNAT.
I don’t need anyone to agree with me, but being rude and insulting is not necessary nor is it conducive to a productive conversation.
But thank you for your um, contribution to the discussion which was…..something, I’m sure.
I just read that the largest number of google searches by the British today are “what is the EU?” And “What happens if we leave the EU?” Sounds like our uninformed Trump voters – they jumped and then realized they forgot the parachute.
Hope, GOT isn’t being axed. They’re in pre-production for season 7 right now and only one season after that. It’ll be okay.
Other shows might have some problems. though.
@ Dangles, maybe brush up on your history with real facts versus crack conspiracy theories. Read about WW 1 and pre WW 2 & WW 2 history and maybe learn why the EU exists. Exercising the brain is a good thing.
My heart goes out to all Brits! I sincerely wish you – as a society and individually – the best possible scenario in the years to come. As a historian and a German I am firmly pro EU and hopefully my optimism will be justified in the long run. We must stand by you now. I truly hope that my government can resist the temptation to make an example of this situation.
Signed,
one of your neighbours.
Spikey, you took the words right out of my mouth. As a fellow German, a historian, a migrant (to Switzerland for purely economic reasons, btw) and Swiss passport holder, I never identified as German or Swiss but as European. The EU has many faults, but the European project gave us the longest period of peace since forever. I am old enough to have lived in a Europe of closed borders, multiple currencies and blistering ressentiments. I don’t want to go back.
I pity the young who will have so much more restrictions in their future. They voted 66% for “remain” and the babyboomers, who had it all and don’t want to share even with their own kids, dealt them another sh!t sandwich.
HB, you’re also someone who
1) has one of the most envied passports in the world
2) lives in a country that increasingly-and-sometimes-violently opposes immigration even for asylum seekers
3) lives in a country that isn’t an EU member
4) possibly left your home country because you didn’t want to pay the high German tax rate that supports the work of the EU
I’m not for or against, not my decision. Just noting that you appear far more protected in your situation than many who voted Brexit.
A poll of millennial voters in Britain showed that about 20% of them either didn’t know how they were going to vote or were not going to vote at all. The percentage was much lower among older people. If this issue is going to affect them so much, they should have voted.
Notasugar, and I am living in a country that is not quite as good as its reputation. Switzerland is an incredibly cold place to live if you’re not rich. And I am not. The reason for coming here was my husband wanted a higher paying job. I had two kids under two, so I came too. The worst decision I’ve ever made.
The tax rate would never affect my choice of place to live. I believe in paying your fair share. The low tax rate is eaten up by skyhigh costs of living anyway.
Switzerland may not be part of the EU but is associated via bilateral treaties. They have freedom of movement as much as the UK and yes they have a disgusting share of anti immigrant populists.
And as far as envied passport goes, I’d give mine up for a job in a heartbeat. I’m over fifty and age discrimination is legal here. One can be miserable in Switzerland, it’s the place to be only for the rich. My boys will have finished school in a year. Then I’m off.
That has been my outsider impression of Switzerland, too. Good to have it confirmed by another person who has lived it. I have a friend who lived there for 20 years because of her husband. The moved back to the US 10 years ago and she’s around 55 now.
She loved some aspects but that didn’t outweigh the cost of living. They were able to purchase about 40 acres here to run a small farm. She’s an independent contractor so her work was always dicey.
It does function as a tax haven for many with lots more means than you have, including many Germans who maintain German passports but live enough days in Switzerland to pay lower tax. As long as Germany allows them to get away with it, it continues to be the middle and lower classes who bear the heaviest burden.
notasugar, +100000000
I can only imagine. I’m a bit freaked too because of the global impact on the market. I have a feeling I’ll have some cranky clients today…
Also, you know if your opinion falls in line with Trump and most Yahoo commenters that you’re on the wrong side of the argument.
Are you a stockbroker?
Financial insurance.
Kitten,
I hope President Obama will give a press conference today to announce his sadness at the Brexit vote followed by reassurance that our special and connected relationship with the UK will continue. That will go a long way to stopping the markets from free-falling and also hopefully give our Brit friends a tiny bit of hope???
I personally will always consider Brits our friends and will try to visit in the next couple of years to give them my tourist dollar. Long live the UK. Virtual hugs and cheek kisses to our UK celebitches at this time of crisis. You ladies have educated us on this subject far more than the US press who greatly lagged behind.
I am SO freaked out as well and stayed up refreshing the BBC website every few seconds. For me the Brexit vote was not only a global and UK disaster but it reinforced that Trump has a very good chance come November. Leave & Trump share the same anger but lack any solid solutions.
Again disgusted by people and feel bad for all my UK friends (worked there for several years) and really p*ssed I left my money in my UK account!
I was about to post the same! Yes! You guys…couldn’t have voted remain just to give the middle finger to Trump? Come on….
@ Original TC- and you just reminded me that we’re coming to the end of POTUS’s press conferences.
As childish as it sounds, I can’t imagine another president being able to make me feel better the way he does.
To say that you are on the wrong side of an argument because “Trump says so” is maybe snarky but also stupid.
There were many reasons to vote leave for the Brits. The campaign had liars on both sides, but one thing about the EU is sadly true:
The EU in this day and age is more a secret society with contract negotiations behind closed doors where even the members of the parliament are not allowed to know about contents they have to approve! (TTIP, CETA – something which also hugly impacts the USA. This contracts are made for multinationals by lobbyists and not for “the people”).
In times of crisis they help the banks but not the poor (again: serving the 1%) Greek being the prime example (there is a lot of corruption going on but the price is paid by the poorest).
The migrant crisis is not “new”. Italy and Greek had to shoulder it more or less alone. Money for the refugee camps where not paid.
Merkel (not Germany, most people are fed up with her) and her “royal” “do as I say” behavior is off putting for other states…
Junker and Schulz … google them.
It is sad that nationalism is on the rise, but it is homemade by the elite.
scylla74-Eh. To you, it might be stupid but to me it’s the truth.
Trump is a moron of epic proportions who didn’t even know what Brexit was a couple weeks ago.
And your condescension aside, I don’t need a lecture about TIPP. My best friend is a standards program manager at the US International Trade Commission in DC and she’s been working on TIPP for the past year.
None of that changes my original point, which is one that I stand by, firmly. Siding with ignorance and self-righteousness is always a recipe for disaster. Nationalism wasn’t created by the elite, it was created by people who are fearful and selfish.
Scylla74
Google rude and pompous.
Original TC – Obama pointed out quite a while ago that realistically, priorities in negotiations will shift with Brexit. The European Union will be a larger focus than the UK because of the numbers involved. That’s one reason the UK was better off being part of a larger group. The vote wasn’t really a “clear majority”, it was just barely a majority. I suspect people are going to want a do-over once all the economic implications become clear to them.
My point was that people who voted out had different motives and just because Trump said he was pro exit made them not automatically on HIS side. This is really an easy way to dismiss all the out voters. What one would call a lazy argument.
GNAT: how does me pointing out that I do not think that 50% of the Brits are stupid and pro Trump because they share one point of view make me rude and pompous?
My main concern about TTIP are that very few people are allowed to know what the contracts involve even so billion of people are going to feel the fallout. And the possibility for multis to use a court of arbitration… Google this! How about some arguments about what I said instead? A lot of people are concerned about this.
Because somebody on the internet knows somebody who worked at the negotiation… wow …! That makes TTIP much better now….
I think that Trump is an ass and Hillary Clinton is establishment. For me the U.S. voters are between a rock and a hard place.
We haven’t stopped talking about it in our office this morning either – everyone was very much Bremain. We’re all so shocked at this outcome. Talk about chopping off your nose to spite your face …
You remain people keep saying that but failed to put forth a convincing enough argument. From what I heard it was just a lot of specualtion on both sides. Time will tell.
Wake up Dangles. I will respond to you with words from a reader of the FT:
“Firstly, it was the working classes who voted for us to leave because they were economically disregarded and it is they who will suffer the most in the short term from the dearth of jobs and investment. They have merely swapped one distant and unreachable elite for another one. Secondly, the younger generation has lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries. We will never know the full extent of the lost opportunities, friendships, marriages and experiences we will be denied. Freedom of movement was taken away by our parents, uncles and grandparents in a parting blow to a generation that was already drowning in the debts of our predecessors. Thirdly and perhaps most significantly, we now live in a post factual democracy. When the facts met myths they were as useless as bullets bouncing off the bodies of aliens in an HG wells novel. When Michael Gove said ‘the British people are sick of experts’ he was right. But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has lead to anything other than bigotry?”
“Secondly, the younger generation has lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries. We will never know the full extent of the lost opportunities, friendships, marriages and experiences we will be denied. Freedom of movement was taken away by our parents, uncles and grandparents in a parting blow to a generation that was already drowning in the debts of our predecessors.”
This honestly made me cry. That’s so sad! Ugh, I can’t imagine being a teen over there and seeing this destructive hand in my future. I know this is a long shot, but how long would the whole re-entrance process take if the UK decided it wanted to be a part of the EU again?
SnazzyisAlive: this response is in reply to your post citing a commenter from the FT:
Basically, that’s my take on the feelings around Brexit & what’s happening here in America too. Economic well-being hasn’t trickled down enough to the masses or it has simply straight stopped & slowed whereas the 1% (and people with upper incomes) have either expanded and/or solidified their wealth. One might say that the EU is a process. Give it a few more decades to iron itself out. Gains have been made. Those things may be true but if the gains and the perceptions of those gains only seem to flow to a privileged few then people will revolt. Unfortunately, they won’t / don’t target the sources of power that skew the game but target people who are less fortunate or victims of the same illiberal forces.
But the migration “crisis” for the uk will only get worse for the uk. Because why would e.g. France stop the refugees at Calais if uk is no longer a part of the EU
A decision based on ignorance and xenophobia. How disappointing and backwards.
I just want to say that it really hasn’t mattered who was in power in the UK for the past 30 years, the richest (tax-breaks) and the poorest (benefits) got at least some help. It’s the people who have “just enough to get by” who have been squeezed the hardest. They earn just enough to get taxed but not enough to receive additional aid from the Govt. Unfortunately, it’s those people who have used this referendum to make their anger clear to everyone.
At the time the EU was being solidified, I worked at an investment consulting firm & I can remember the discussions around “capital flow, etc.” and whether Germany would participate. Pacific Rim countries were supposedly going to form a similar alliance. However, during that time, the Japanese economy was tanking fast so the breaks (public reporting of it anyway) was put on it. So, imagine these giant enterprise zones and the free flow of capital (human and otherwise) coming into fruition. Here in the US, our alliance was supposed to be with Canada and across the Americas. Should the Carribean be a standalone? Etc. Anyway, I said that to say this: in some respects, the EU was never kind of popular (especially at its inception). Nations were reluctant to join and there were always natural concerns about sovereignty (etc). It’s only a few decades old. Everyone who followed the early talks knew that the top (big huge money) was always going to win and canabalize who and what it could (cause that’s what it does). That aspect simply wasn’t as transparent and readily felt as it is now under decades of globalization.
The problem, as I see it, is that direct monetary gains haven’t been shared enough with the folks just making enough not to be considered poor. They (we/I) are being too squeezed from too many sides without any real relief (or excess/residual cash). Ironically, people living in countries that were once designated as so-called emerging markets have always been financially raped & fleeced. It’s simply made it’s way to a town near you. Technology in the service of rapacious capital has most of us living on our knees–one way or the other.
@mickey – always good to have meaningless comments from the peanut gallery.
Heartbreaking, and terrifying. Good luck to you, truly.
So sorry mlle- it is a very depressing morning- David Cameron will go down in history as the worst UK PM ever . Where was he in civic class- its a representative democracy – the politicians are elected to make wise decisions not for rule of the mob.
@mandy, why is he considered the worst UK PM???? Wouldn’t you say this anti immigration feeling is due to all the problems with Isis, etc? Which to be honest is why Brexit won: fear.
He started this all to put an end to discussion in his own party. It was a power play and he truly deserves this outcome.
Honestly: I do not think it will be easy for the Brits. But I think the direction the EU is taking is very wrong so maybe this will be a turning point with a good outcome.
Ahead of Tony Blair? I don’t think so.
Did you forget about Tony Blair and Gordon Brown?
@mandy Neville Chamberlain handed Europe to Hilter and the Nazis, so he goes on my worst PM list.
Worst ever?!?! I can name 5 that are considered worse, but ho hum.
Thatcher will always be very near the top of the worst league for me.
Same here, Italian working in the scientific community in the UK and internationally. Not good.
really sorry to hear that, Fran. I don’t know about you, but I’m vacillating between sadness, anger, and exhaustion. Not *quite* ready for all this ‘re-unify the country!’ talk but give me the weekend to recover and we’ll see.
I was so disappointed when I turned on my tv today. Cameron really opened a Pandora’s box when he promised this, and now he’s made it clear he won’t stick it out and guide the country through this. I didn’t hear a single logical argument persuading me to leave and m a 30 year old female living in greater London. The majority of my borough voted to leave. I’m so glad I decided not to have children because this is going to be a mess. Those who say they want to put the Great back in Britain are deluded – Scotland will be off now and maybe even Ireland. I fear this will be the end of the EU as we know it. I know some are saying we’ll get some kind of deal, this is rubbish, the EU leaders have made it clear we’re on our own now, which I guess is what the majority wanted! I have never been so disappointed at a political decision in my life. Immigration was key in my opinion, if you can appeal to xenophobes in times of difficulty then you win the battle. I’m applying for an Irish passport now, I don’t want to be associated with this country any more, even if I do have to live here!
So true @laura about appealing to xenophobes in times of difficulty. I feel it happening here in the U.S. and I feel more dread about the future than ever.
“Put the Great back in Britain” sounds like a slogan worthy of Donald Trump.
@laura, Why don’t you stay and fight for your country? That’s what we Finnish people have done… Part of the problem are people like you (sorry to say this) who will always run and hide when things go wrong. No, you need to stand up and fight!
I saw a comment on ontd that said
“It’s kinda poetic that Britain started off the last century with the world’s largest empire, and in this one there’s a very real possibility they won’t even be able to keep the scraps of their home island together.”
I’m so sorry for any Celebitches who voted Bremain. This is honestly a disaster 🙁
I like David Cameron and I think he is a fine PM. On this very important subject I also think he was wrong. A great man will admit to his defeat, pick himself up and say, “I am here. The people have spoken, now lets move forward.”
I’m a bit disappointed in the man who 24 hours ago declared, “Brits don’t quit” and today he did just that.
I’m so sorry for all living and working in Britain today- I’m sending love and rage to you and yours. Younger generations do not deserve the turmoil and uncertainty and stress and insecurity this decision brings, a decision decided on largely by their arrogant/ignorant forebears who already profited off of a system designed in their favor. It’s a sad, sad day for Britain, Europe, and the world.
Seriously, you like David Cameron? I ‘ve never ever heard anyone liking him. Even the people who voted for him.
@rita, I am not British nor do I pretend to understand a lot of this. I do though wonder about someone who agreed to lead people but quit when things don’t Go their way. Seems like he should pick himself and figure out or help figure outout what the best move next is for the people he represents
We can’t be sure what pressures were put on him over this though. It may all be Cameron’s decision or others in his party may want the face of #Brexit gone while they try and deal with the fallout. With him gone he also provides a convenient scapegoat if they fight it in the House of the Lords and the House of the Commons. Having him lead from this point out may have just fallen into accusations and blame-spreading, I can’t see how he’d accomplish much more (especially since he isn’t all that popular) than to further muddy the waters. But who knows?
He did say that he felt Britain needed new leadership to negotiate the Brexit future. I don’t think he quit out of pique or spike but because he thought it was the honorable thing to do. Plus he’s not leaving till October, leaving enough time for a leadership convention.
I’m absolutely gutted!! can’t believe some of the ignorant answers of why we needed to leave the EU. I am despondent. I think Scotland will be to English what Canada will be to Americans escaping the TRUMPeter !
I stayed up to watch the results (American on the east coast) and every time a new result was announced, I couldn’t believe it. I’m still in total shock.
It really is shocking, right? The polls kept saying it’d be close, but the vote would be to remain. The pound is in free fall and all of Europe’s economies are in chaos. The US stock market may very well plummet when it opens. And we have Donald Trump saying what a great thing it is for Scotland, which voted to take it’s country back, even though Scotland voted to remain and is likely going to vote to leave Britain. A fascinating mess.
–TheRealPinky
Typical Trump. Every time he opens his mouth, in goes his foot. He probably forgot all about the Scottish independence referendum and never bothered to fimd out where the Scots stood on Brexit.
Trump also tweeted that after his visit to Scotland, he’ll be traveling next to the United Kingdom. Dolt truly has no idea about the world.
Pinky, I agree. And have got to add that today, within hours of saying Brexit was “a great thing”, Trump *blamed* Obama for Brexit.
Also, when asked this morning about the pound crashing, he said glibly, “It’s always good for me when the pound falls.” “Good for me” — Trump’s motto and the basis for all his opinions, even as people suffer devastating losses from it, he can only relate to how it affects HIM. What a president he would be (I can’t bear to say “will” be).
And Trump thought the falling GBP was a great thing because more people will visit his resort. Way to keep your eye on the ball but then again Trump only cares about himself despite the fact that many middle/lower class Americans have made him the Messiah of their economical future.
I am in shock too. I honestly thought we would get a remain result. I am Scottish and i am furious about the result. We voted to remain in but are being dragged out the EU against our will. I sincerely hope we get another indyref and get away from the UK (and hopefully back to the EU) once and for all.
It seems like another independence referendum is almost guaranteed at this point, no? It was close last time, but now that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if it passed now.
God, what a mess.
Booklion
Same here.Voted remain in the UK but will vote leave if we get another referendum. Apparently sources close to Merkel already indicated Scotland and Northern Irleland can stay in the EU.
Totally agree booklion, I live iin a city – Edinburgh – that voted 74pc remain. I am of English background but have lived on and off in Scotland for 35 years. I voted for Scottish independence in the Indyref and this has just strengthened my view. I feel very sorry for N. Ireland, where my brother lives, which also voted remain. I really hope things will not be as bad as I fear they will be.
@booklion,
what do you think it’ll do to England if they leave the EU, AND lose Northern Ireland and Scotland? Wouldn’t that be a terrible blow? Do they not consider that eventuality at all?
I stayed up watching this vote roll in last night from the east coast as well. When it looked like Brexit would win I played “What Comes Next” from Hamilton. It seemed appropriate. I hear Ireland will put forth the same since they voted to remain as well. This will for sure break up the UK as well.
America should take this as a warning. I know I did.
So we could conceivably be at the point where United Kingdom just means England and Wales? Britain what have you done?! There must be a sequence of events that would fix this……say maybe a snap election that brings Labour into power. Then that election is interpreted as a rejection of the Brexit result and a second referendum is called. That could all happen in under a year right? Before the real divorce gets properly underway. Gaah!
@timbuktu I’m not British, but from what I see going on here in the US during this election year, I know how easy it is for politicians, lobbyists, etc. to get people to ignore logic and rationalism.
I hope Scotland and NI do get a referendum and vote to leave. It feels so unfair to have such a close vote. My town voted remain. All this has done is driven a bigger wedge between London and the rest of the UK, and between Scotland, NI and England.
Anyway I hope Scotland manages to get out of this mess, and then I’ll be moving to Edinburgh!!! 🙂
Yeah, good luck financing independent membership of the EU.
I just read that you may get a sweet deal from the EU to be independent and stay with the EU because you have oil the EU could use up north? So England proper would lose that oil, also.
And the head of the EU wants England out ASAP. They are pissed.
I’m also Scottish and wanted independence. Now I hope it’ll happen for real and Scotland will stay with Europe. I’m so disappointed in the UK. Having said that, the difference in the count is so tiny I don’t know why it even is able to proceed. I don’t think half the people who voted to leave have any idea what they’ve done.
One good thing is that giant greasy dinosaur’s ass David Cameron is quitting. I’m pretty sure that man never evolved from slime.
I’m in the US on the West Coast, so I saw the results announced at about 9:45pm last night. All of the predictions were going the other way earlier in the day, so I was really surprised.
Then I watched Christiane Amanpour get delirious from a lack of sleep while the GBP took a nose dive. The line that represented the pound’s value was like something from a cartoon: a horrific steep angle going down to the right. Like falling off a cliff. I saw an article this morning that said this event was worse on the pound than the 2008 financial crisis.
I am hoping for the best, but bracing for the worst. We really don’t know what is going to happen in the world markets for the next two years as this reverberates.
So furious right now. And babyboomers have the AUDACITY to call millennials selfish. Good luck to all of the 60+ year old retiring to Spain or South of France. You won’t have Free Movement anymore. And the econemy is tanking. Thanks for nothing.
Agreed. An entire generation has lost so much of their future because of grumpy old racist coots. Heartbreaking
Voter turnout out was high apparently. Does anybody have the stats for age groups? (how many under 25 voted, how many under 35 voted, etc)
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/how-did-different-demographic-groups-vote-eu-referendum
Here is a small article on the demographics.
The higher educated younger population in urban areas voted remain.
Lower educated, lower middle class, rural voters did vote for leave.
Also, the babyboomers who are the big winners and are sitting in their well nurished nests are the ones voting for the Brexit.
Its all not a big surprise really.
+1000000
Mickey, am I to understand that you are not particularly fond of the British?
I pity the young Brits who are so not what you describe. The ones who just got their future made more difficult by the greed and stupidity of their own elders.
@ Hyacinthbucket, thanks for the vote of confidence! I saw the Mickey post and reported it as abuse it was so vile – I’m glad to see the moderators agreed with me and took it down. It’s unusual to see a comment like that on this site.
I’m heartened and touched by all the sympathy and support us beleaguered Brits are getting from around the world. We need it so thanks again.
Wow…thats classifying every single voter (the majority by the way) as ALL racist? You might be the one who is prejudiced..dont ya think?
I can’t wait till you and your cohorts are old coots and are callled disgustingly convenient names to explain away reality. Your time will come.
Frisbee, entirely my pleasure. I had the best times of my life in the UK and wanted to retire there. I’ve never felt at home anywhere else ever since I’m 15.
As a scottish twenty something who works in London i have to say i have hardly come across a single person who is pro Leave. So i was utterly shocked at this. It just shows how great the divide is in the UK.
Doesn’t it just? And also how unheard those people have felt. The rural communities of England and Wales have definitely had their voices heard today.
It’s like the north and the south in America. We really are two different countries.
I know my demographic voted out but some of us voted remain, and I feel for young people who will be living with the consequences of this for a long time to come. We are not all selfish, please don’t assume we are all affluent and self centred.
@Annetommy I know. I’m should have worded it better. I’m mad at people my age 18-25 who didn’t show up. This kind of thing should be mandatory.
No, it shouldn’t be mandatory. If people don’t care enough to vote, no one should force them to. But the non-voters shouldn’t be taken seriously if they complain about the result.
I think people past a certain age shouldn’t have a vote on certain matters, it’s not their future after all.
Wow Aren- maybe you can ship them off to a concentration camp or just shoot them since they have no future value. What age limit would you put on it? The age where anyone thinks differently than you?
Is that what you think Aren’s comment was about? People not agreeing with her?
I think the point Aren was making was a poignant one. Why should a group of people who aren’t even part of the work force anymore be allowed to dictate the outcome of something that has such an incredibly strong impact on Britain’s (and the world’s) economy?
Realistically, I know you can’t put a cap on voting age, but how frustrating it must be for Brits who are graduating from university, possibly hoping to get a job in EU or just hoping to get a job anywhere. Look at the mess they have to contend with–one that they never wanted or voted for.
@Aren- I’ve always had the same feeling toward American politicians. Pass a certain age, you should be forced from office.
It is their future, though. They’re the ones who will suffer horribly, unassisted and uncared for in nursing homes, since there won’t be immigrant labor to take low-paying, thankless jobs. It’s incredibly sad.
Why don’t we just kill everyone at 65? That way we don’t have to pay them a pension either. Win-win.
LOL @manjit. Nobody is saying that, snarky 😉
I was discussing Brexit with my French baby boomer mother (I won’t go into her thoughts about it) and she said: “Baby boomers are like mothers: they get blamed for EVERYTHING!!” lol
Ignoring the fact that some old people have the wisdom of experience and have paid tax for the past 50/60 years?
Democracy, or democratic government, is “a system of government in which all the people of a state or polity … are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly”, as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary.
ALL THE PEOPLE.
I’m so agree with you. In my country those old people, who left their youth in communism, still have a huge impact on future of next generation. They believe in some past greatness of USSR and vote against reasonable solutions. They still bring dead ideas to government, poisoning democracy.
Please stop the ageism. The logical extension of this argument is that no one has a vote except on issues which will directly affect them for the next 30 years. Totally unworkable and divisive. And not everybody is an old fogey. My view on the issue of abortion, for example, is more “pro choice” now than it was 40 years ago. You either have a democracy or you don’t. I agree it’s frustrating and quite scary what democracy has produced in this case. As a US politician said years ago – “the people have spoken – the bast@ards”.
Aren- I’d respond, but I need to book passage on an ice floe headed out to sea.
Jwoolman, I think I love you! Maybe we can rent our ice floes at the same “Lord of the Flies for Ancients” Agency.
I think those fortunate enough to retire to Spain or France were among those who voted to Bremain, regardless of their age. It’s the less fortunate who most likely voted Brexit.
You can’t feel sorry for Cameron Kaiser, it’s him who started this all mess. When you wanna dance with the right-wing…
Yes. He brought this on himself. I am terrified for the future.
I have zero pity for Cameron. He took an outrageous gamble that will have ramifications for generations to come.
All because piglover wanted to get reelected. Courting racists never works out. See US current Repulican Party.
^This.
–TheRealPinky
Exactly. I am more afraid than ever now that DT will win because the world has gone crazy.
GoodNames, My immediate thought was the same…that people previously on the fence about Trump will see this vote as a reaffirmation for reckless change here in the US.
Come on guys. For once it’s not Americans making dumb-ass decisions.
Let’s enjoy our moment and not think about President Pumpkinhead for a second.
Hopefully the opposite will happen and people will see what a disaster it would be. I just don’t get it. Happy I’m 40ish instead of retirementish.
@Kitten
Sorry, didn’t mean to make everything about us.
I think this is actually waking some Americans up. I am seeing on my social media that people realize they can’t sit this one out. They may not like Hillary but DT is way too dangerous.
Aw GNAT I was totally teasing 😉
I just can’t believe this though…when we went to bed last night my BF checked and said it was close but news outlets were predicting a win for Bremain.
Needless to say, I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the news this morning.
The world really has gone mad.
I don’t think the people voting for Donald Trump even know what a Brexit is.
For me Leave & Trump are the same so I can’t think of one without the other. The only saving grace (just barely) is that while the UK is 85% white the US is MUCH more diverse.
@Tate That’s my feeling as well. People are now understanding the ramifications of this brexit vote. Americans will understand brexit more if some how it affects the u.s. economy. They will remember hopefully that Trump supported it.
@Tate, that’s what I wish I could get across to people who hate Hillary. Drumpf is irresponsible and unqualified. Even if you loathe HRC, the alternative is terrifying. HRC may be a lot of things, but I don’t think she’s a dangerous loose cannon like Drumpf.
To all the Brits, I feel for you, and hope for the best for the global economy.
Actually, Bridget, just the reverse. My conservative friends (none of whom are Trump supporters, neither am I) all knew what Brexit is and have a basic comprehension of the issues about it. My liberal friends, all of whom detest Trump, had no idea what Brexit is, or even that there was a vote about it.
And Sadezilla, could you please explain to me why so many people call Trump “Drumpf” as if it’s an insult? It was the name of one of his ancestors and was later changed to Trump. Why is it okay to use someone’s ancestral name as an insult?
Piglover?
Using Drumpf is a reminder to the xenophobe that his opportunity and life came on the back of an immigrant as is the reality for all white Americans. It’s the reality that we are all here because someone in our family tree took a shot and left their home for a better life. I’m a dual American/Australian national and let me tell you the immigration process was the most difficult thing I’ve ever gone through. For me, if I would have been denied, I would have been sent back the States and would’ve resumed my life. I can’t imagine the stakes for someone coming from a developing nation.
Robin – I think (but am not sure) that people started calling Trump “Drumpf” because he (or more precisely, his ancestor?) tried to claim he was Swedish instead of German (not sure why, this was quite a while ago). Too convoluted for me.
Completely agree.
He held up the EU referendum as a means of rallying support and votes for a Conservative majority last year during the General Election, thinking Remain would manage to secure a narrow win.
Now it’s massively backfired on him.
The people I truly fear for are those in the low-middle to low income brackets who will have to face Boris Johnson and his ilk taking over in October.
came here to say exactly that. Agree with every comment above.
Spot on. He got lucky last time with the Scotland referendum, but this time it didn’t work out.
Switzerland has already intervened on the financial market because Swiss Francs are facing a record high as everyone is buying. some of my friends took the loans for their houses in Swiss francs (back in the day when this made sense) and they are freaking out a bit now.
It was the splits in his party as much as anything
Cameron brought it on himself due to his leadership ambitions he gambled with the countrys future. One of the most disastrous legacies of any prime minister in recent memory.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/06/prime-minister-resigns?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/theprimeministerresignsdavidcameronquitsdowningstreetwitharuinedlegacy
EU member states want to begin negotiations for the exit asap and are bashing Cameron for delaying them to this successor – here is one of the tweets by EU rep Reding:
So @David_Cameron you abandon ship and leave it to others to negotiate the exit, shameful and irresponsible #Brexit
— Viviane Reding (@VivianeRedingEU) June 24, 2016
Given what is about to come, I understand why he is waiting to hand the reigns on this to the next person. There is already going to be a massive mess with him leaving at this point and a normal change in government is a huge job. Starting the exit at this point really leaves too much open for the entire system and the next leader may want to handle it differently. There isn’t much point in starting a job when you basically will only get the box unpacked and then be off to leave the rest of the unpacking and set up to everyone else.
I have a lot of comments on this whole thing but I am not going to poke at people here. This is about to cost me a year’s worth of work that I now will have to go back to the drawing board on and have completed before June 30th. I’m not even in the UK and it has caused chaos over here. Fun times………
Completely agree. He is the only person I don’t feel sorry for today.
Hoist on his own petard.
I agree, no pity. A stupid question gets an equally stupid reply. History will be very harsh on Cameron and his legacy, and rightfully so. Selfish, idiotic fool
Cameron is a prime example of somebody who miscalculated politically. When the public doesn’t know what you stand for (because you choose whichever view of the moment you deem will make it most likely for you to be re-elected), they discard you at some point.
Boris Johnson did the very same thing, he’s an opportunist to boot, but he wasn’t as well-known as Cameron at the time and he screamed way louder, so his complete lack of political or moral spine got overlooked.
Gosh, I’m sure Boris Johnson and Donald Trump would get along mightily well. Both are narcissists who are not actually interested in politics. They just want to be on whatever stage they can find to give them their fifteen minutes. Liars, liars, pants on fire-s…
Frack it, I’m so angry this morning. The pied pipers won this round.
Amen to that. I voted Remain and so did everyone I know, and I watched the results like seeing a bomb fall in the distance. Cameron did this to out-racist the far right in the election, fomented hatred against immigrants and the EU for his own benefit and, now it’s all blown up in his fat smug face, he hasn’t even got the guts to stick around and clean up his mess. He gets to retire with his offshore fortune and we schmucks get to live with the chaos, the backward-looking xenophobic insular isolated mess he helped create. And now they’re touting Boris Johnson as his replacement? An animated Aryan dish mop in a suit? Well done, Cameron. “Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding.”
England is fucked. I’m scared for my future and my family’s future. We’re better than this. 😰
That’s something I’ve been wondering about, too: What’s a Boris Johnson going to do, once he can no longer hold the EU responsible for all of the UK’s woes? – Well, of course, he can shift the focus to another round of Muslim bashing, that’s always a viable option, right?
Also, I want to bake you a cake just for the “animated Aryan dish mop in a suit”. That’s pure poetry, dear.
@Londerland: re: “I watched the results like seeing a bomb fall in the distance.” That’s exactly how the US sElection 2000 felt. Sadly it just got worse from there.
@Tara – I was about to say “but in the end, you got Obama!” And then I thought, yeah, but you also got 9/11, Bush twice, the rise and normalising of the right, the constant assault on civil liberties and…we’re all up the same creek now, aren’t we?
@Sauvage – I’ve been wondering the same. (And thank you! :D) Blaming all the UK’s ills on the EU and immigrants might have propelled him to his current infamy – it may even bring him the premiership, and there really isn’t enough vomit in the world to describe how that prospect makes me feel – but when we leave, he’ll still need someone to blame. The reality is that even leaving the EU will not stop immigration, so there will always be new immigrants to blame; even if we manage to stop immigration, hooray, there are so many immigrants already here for him to blame.
I cling to the thought that this has all been a gigantic power-grab by Johnson and Nigel Farage. Neither of them really cares about leaving the EU (as evidenced by their flimflamming and backtracking all day today about how complicated it would be etc), they just used it as a lever to gain popularity. I genuinely don’t believe they expected to win. They are both frauds, they both know that it would be better for them to endlessly spin out the exit process (which still leaves them the EU bogeyman to blame for our failure to *actually exit*). I think both of them are only too aware of how much the UK does benefit from being in the EU, and they don’t want to risk losing that. But they will leave anyway, and fuck things up forever for the rest of us, if that’s what it takes.
If Johnson is PM and we really leave the EU, and we get a poor deal, and all our problems fail to magically vanish, then he will be held accountable and he will lose power, which is all he ever wanted. He doesn’t give a toss about the common man. As the English comic Jeremy Hardy once said of Johnson, “He is a loveable mop top, but you just know he would have absolutely no hesitation in corralling you into a football stadium and shooting you”.
I think that’s why Juncker is saying we have to exit quickly. I smell a bluff being called. If we don’t make it official soon, it will be so obvious that none of these idiots planned for it, none of them expected it, none of them has a clue what to due with this weapon now they have it. I hope to hell they are all exactly as craven and cowardly as I believe them to be, and they will say the exit plan is complex and will take too long, or the mandate isn’t strong enough, or they will negotiate a magical new deal that means we can stay – they won’t really pull the plug. It wouldn’t be the first time our politicians have ignored the wishes of the people, though it might be the first time I’d celebrate them doing so.
@ Londerland: I’m utterly torn over this, which makes the whole situation a good exercise at being human. On one hand, my vengeful side goes: Just kick them out and be done with it, that’s what they wanted afterall, so let them have it!
On the other hand, there’s my broader sense of compassion and, shall I say, the fact-oriented parts of my brain. 48% of the British people did NOT vote for this. Half the population get punished for some madmen’s hunger for power, and their complete disregard of the effect it will have on everybody else.
I just don’t see how it would be possible to get out of this sh*t at this point. I take the simplicistic view that you should look at countries as people, and treat them accordingly. In this case, you have a bully who miscalculated. Bullies need to face the consequences of their actions, and be held accountable. Again, my theory falls flat because HALF THE POPULATION of this country voted otherwise!
I don’t have answers regarding what to do now. My only hope is that the UK will learn from this experience over time. It just really hurts to think about who’s going to bear the consequences of this learning experience, if it even will turn out to be one.
I blame Cameron. He agreed to the referendum in order to get re-elected. I blame the conservatives who thought it was a joke to mess with the Labour leader election, resulting in a lame duck leader who wasn’t prepared to fight to remain. I blame Boris Johnson who is entirely focused on putting himself and his chums into power and couldn’t care less how he achieves it.
I do NOT blame the working class people who tipped the vote over to the leave camp, because they were sick and tired of a system that didn’t listened to them, that wouldn’t acknowledge how difficult the last few years had been for them and who, quite understandably, felt they were invisible if they didn’t live in London.
I hope Americans take notice. We will probably have Boris as PM, for god’s sake do not elect Trump, the thought of them working together to f**k up out childrens’ future makes me sick.
I’m in shock…truly. All my friends in the UK are fuming
My sister lives and works in Manchester and is fit to explode this morning. I am genuinely shocked at the result.
I can’t believe Manchester voted to Leave, that was predicted to be almost as safe a bet as Liverpool voting to stay in.
Completely mental.
I’m pulling a double at work today (newsroom) and it’s been complete madness since about 1am.
@Amelia – Manchester voted to remain with 60% of the vote.
Manchester and Liverpool voted remain. It was Birmingham that was the big let down for the remain side of the major cities. Ironically Birmingham owes much of its regeneration to the EU.
Most of the big cities voted Remain:
London – 60%
Manchester – 60%
Cardiff – 60%
Bristol – 62%
Liverpool – 58%
As did the majority in Scotland (62%) and NI (56%), and Oxbridge:
Oxford – 70%
Cambridge – 74%
It was everywhere else that voted out, Ironically Wales and Cornwall, which both receive EU funding voted Leave.
Clearly I’ve gone mad, I’m not entirely sure who I mistook Manchester for. Good to know some things are still reliable!
Cambridge has a really young population right?
It’s interesting looking at how all the poles are divided largely among age groups.
I visited Cambridge back in 2006…lovely area.
I voted IN and I totally thought we’d win, my jaw was literally on the floor this morning when I heard, i’m so horrified for my and my children’s future. It’s utter madness. My faith in humans has tanked out and i am FULLY expecting Trump to become the next president because morons outweigh everyone else sadly.
Oh Rose, it is so scary. But the good will prevail, eventually, won’t we?
“…because morons outweigh everyone else sadly.” Well said! It will be a bumpy road but ultimately ok. I think that those that voted to leave were simply giving “the finger” to the EU and everyone else but will soon figure out that we are no longer living in the 60’s & 70’s and you can’t put all of the advances back in a bottle.
Expat living in Cambridge. The only good news of the day is that our overwhelming vote to stay in makes me proud to live in Cambridge in this otherwise crazy country.
I think he’ll go down in history as having called the most reckless and destructive referendum ever and for party political reasons to boot. And I don’t even like the EU.
Financial woes across the board this morning. A looming second referendum for Scottish independence. Ireland may finally unify. Leadership uncertainty in both government and opposition. And that’s before we get onto scientific research and all the other sector-specific issues.
Years of total chaos ahead.
Even TIDDLES won’t make me laugh today.
No, I can’t even think about Tiddles. This is madness. I still don’t want to believe it.
Agreed.
I agree. This is a disaster.
I think the Greek Analyst put it best with his “surprised a vote for self-destruction is actually a vote for self-destruction.”
I’m so sorry this happened to you guys. I didn’t want it to happen either.
I saw another comment that this was the first time the commentor (a financial analyst, I can’t remember the name, sorry) had seen a country vote for recession. This is going to be so ugly.
Does Parliament have to approve the referendum results? Is that a done deal?
And good riddance to the dead pig-shagger but I think it a bit cowardly of him to leave such a mess for somebody else to clean up.
It’s advisory. But they won’t negate it.
However, already there are calls to hold off on invoking Article 50 (the treaty mechanism to secede from the EU) until after the Tories have chosen a new, pro-Brexit leader in October (who will be the new PM).
It’s *possible* a further referendum would be called on the eventual secession agreement – that’ll take 1-2 years to sort out. It’s also possible things will get so chaotic that a General Election gets called very quickly, which again would change the picture entirely.
I don’t think anyone can predict what will happen. And the instability resulting from that is what will do for us, rather than the actual issue of in or out of the EU, you know?
@Sixer: well, I am afraid holding off is not a matter of choice anymore
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683042/EU-referendum-Brexit-Britain-leaves
Tanguerita
That’s just what Juncker wants to say. The referendum is advisory. He can’t force the UK into invoking Article 50. HM Govt can do that when they want.
What is true is that any argument about the timing of invoking Article 50 will cause havoc on forex and stocks and all the other markets, which will be disastrous for every single UK citizen – except the rich ones who were shouting for Brexit whilst simultaneously moving their assets offshore.
The government makes the decision to invoke Article 50. In theory they can decide not to but that’s highly unlikely.
@Sixer
The problem is the die is cast, there’s no way the markets will settle if it stays in limbo, and you’d get a popular revolt if denied.
Extremely worried BTW, I am EU in the UK not yet eligible for permanent residency.
Exactly, Cookiejar. Instability every which way. This was my primary reason for voting Remain.
I’ve read something about Article 50… that the decision to leave can be overridden by an MP vote…? Is this really the case, esp. now that Cameron has abandoned ship?
ETA: I just read that Jean-Claude Juncker is basically saying, “You want out? YOU’RE GONE! Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!”
It does sound a bit spiteful, like a kid picking up his toy and leaving a game because he didn’t like a call, especially coming SO quickly after the vote.
My heart goes out to you all… Scary times here, too… I dread the November elections here.
ETA (again): Sky news Twitter says, “German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an “associated partner country” of the EU following leave vote”.
Could this soften the blow of Brexit?
@ Lilac
Disagree. If I were DC, I too would have left the greedy brexiters to do all the sh***y work. It is going to be painful as hell, why would I want to make it easy on them?
Hannan on Newsnight was already talking about maybe being an ‘Associate’ EU member, whatever that means, which will include the free movement of workers. Laughable!
I will go back to my movies for escape now. My sector has started to go into meltdown. JP Morgan is talking about moving, and the Bank next to ours in Canary Wharf has just announced it will move 1000 jobs from Canary Wharf to Paris. That will be approximately 900 people (middle managers /business and data analysts/admin staff) who have done nothing wrong losing their jobs.
Well done Brexiters! I can’t wait for the economic downturn to hit you because trust me, this turd that you have handed to Britain is going to flow down your way – just give it a few months.
I am in shock. I can’t believe this is happening, and I shudder at the economic ramifications. This is going to hurt everyone for a long, long time.
but @Sixer, Tiddles went on a date… c’mon, small smile… just tiny one
Sixer, see Lindsey Lohans twitter commentary on Brexit, it will make you smile at least.
I don’t . . . what is she trying to say, exactly?
It’s like she’s throwing British place names all over the place just to see which ones will stick.
Maybe tomorrow, when I’ve calmed down.
I was looking at that last night on an ONTD thread to distract myself and couldn’t work out what she was on about
I hope the people, who’ve just witnessed their life savings evaporate, think again about the ramifications of this vote and make some sane choices in the near future when it comes to elections and referenda. Maybe this is a wakeup call and there can be some way to reverse some elements of this disaster.
–TheRealPinky
@Pinky – Voters don’t make rational choices. They vote their values, their principles, and, all too often, their ideological view points. And when voters feel they have nothing to lose in an election, they vote their most radical ideology. If you want to change what happens in the voting booth, you have to change the lives of the people voting against you.
@Megan,
but if voters don’t make rational choices (which I agree with), then changing their lives won’t matter. Poor people, uninsured people routinely vote AGAINST their own interests. How can you change their lives if they tell you, time and time again “no-no-no, abortion is more important to me than my own well-being”, essentially?
@Timbuktu If I voted my economic interests, I would be a hard core Republican, but, frankly, I, too am an abortion voter (rabidly pro choice). Why do you not question middle class people voting against their economic interests?
@Pinky & @Megan
Well said. Its a very sad day
@Megan, I’m in a similar boat. I’m very pro-choice but I’m also economically conservative. And many other “contradictions”. It’s difficult to choose how to vote many times. “Let’s see, what is most important to me today: bodily autonomy or financial independence?” Because a lot of the time it’s one or the other.
People are going way too far with this. Whether or not the UK remains in the free market remains to be seen. Leaving the EU is not the same as leaving the free market. Either way the EU has been on it’s way out for a while and will continue that way. The UK jumped ship. The stock market has reacted but will come back. It’s a historic decision but not a stupid one and the US media has sold so much propaganda on this issue. Now people are afraid of the unknown.
600Purple, you are the first person I have seen who has said something like this. I admit I learning on my feet so to speak, so I am glad to see a more moderate reaction, and I certainly hope that you are right, for all of our sake.
Am shocked but there still could be some hope if the EU were to offer a deal that then forms the basis of another referendum. But that won’t happen, they’ll just screw us over with biased trade agreements that have free movement/immigration tied into them.
A lot of leave voters are now regretting that they did, particularly after the pound, as predicted, went throu the floor. Leave voters are all saying that they voted out purely because of immigration, this just shows us as a nation of racists and xenophobic morons.
And it’s all the baby boomers/silver voters fault as as more voting stats emerge it shows that THEY swung the vote as they were one of the biggest groups that voted to leave. Again, they have effed the younger generations over with their selfishness.
Well of course the pound went through the floor the day after the referendum. Doesn’t mean it will stay in the basement. How this will turn out depends on if the eu want to punish uk or not. If they do, it’s in eu, not uk voters.
so you say that 51,9 % of uk voters are racist? I love how democracy is valued even when the side you don’t agree with win. No namecalling, no claims of “the others are idiots, uneducated” and what not. Heartwarming <3
@Betti – I am crossing my fingers and toes for the UK. The EU has plenty of incentive to find a suitable compromise, let’s hope it happens.
@maria 2.
Democracy IS valued, though. No one is saying “let’s pick up guns and shoot the ones who voted for Brexit”. Those who voted Bremain will comply. That’s respect for democracy, is it not?
Yes, no name-calling could be nice, but frankly, that exists on both sides, and there’s usually next to none of it on Celebitchy. People present a lot of rational arguments for being in shock, not just insults.
“But that won’t happen, they’ll just screw us over with biased trade agreements that have free movement/immigration tied into them.”
ah?! not sure what you mean, but it sounds like you mean that the UK should maintain all the good deals on trading that the EU has established for its members and none of the joint contributions and obligations. No, it’s not the EU responsibility to offer a great deal to a country that was already benefiting of the best position and lots of exceptions in comparison with the other members…and was still not happy because “Immigration”.
This scenario is sad and bad for the all Europe if not the world, but it wasn’t on the EU hands, it was on the UK hands. I’m sorry for all the UK population who voted to stay.
@minime who said “No, it’s not the EU responsibility to offer a great deal to a country that was already benefiting of the best position and lots of exceptions in comparison with the other members…and was still not happy because “Immigration””
Completely agree with you! I am Dutch and my feeling is that we shouldn’t put the burden on the rest of us in the EU to beg the UK to stay, offering them even more privileges than they were already enjoying up to now. Because, for those of you who don’t know, the Brits were in fact in a privileged position compared to the rest of the EU.
I’m also, by the way, very sorry for the part of the UK population who voted to stay, I offer them my sincere condolences. I wish you could stay with us.
Thing is, there are a lot of people in other EU countries who also have reservations about aspects of the EU, including free movement. If the EU had had any sense they would have taken Britain’s concerns more seriously, instead they basically just reinforced the perception that the EU is arrogant and inflexible.
@maria 2
“if the eu want to punish uk or not. If they do, it’s in eu, not uk voters.”
Sorry, I am not going to be nice here but yes it will be on the brexit voters.
They are the people who married a pretty girl, asked for divorce when times were rough and still thought they’d get to keep a room in the house and have sex after diner.
@Betti, the UK has already lots of EU rules they don’t follow, it’s the only EU country with special status in various areas… What could the EU offer them?
They voted to leave, and sadly, they’ll leave as they wished.
I’m sad for many friends who live in the UK and that are now afraid of the consequences and for all the British who live in my country (40 thousand Brits just in the region where I live)… All this is going to change their lives to some extent..
It’s terrifying. And I don’t think Germans took this whole thing seriously before (because we’re as stupid as the rest of Europe of course) but yeah, this morning wasn’t fun. I can’t imagine a Europe without the EU, it’s how I grew up. And I also can’t believe that anyone is truly surprised. Shocked, yes. But surprised? I don’t think the established parties across Europe have realized what is going on yet. What their voters want and that they’re serious (and stupid). I hope they wake up before Germany and France hold elections next year.
I work for a big lawfirm and frankly, some of them always profit when sh*t like this goes down. Nobody was even remotely optimistic this morning. THAT is a truly terrible sign. My boss is close to retirement, he’s seen some sh*t. But he’s very quiet today.
So voters are stupid? Really?
Apparently.
Urgh Piers, it was about the economy you nitwit! Immigration will always be an issue.
People worried about immigrants taking their job is a moot point when there isn’t a job to take.
Trumps comment says it all.
I continue to wonder why the Middle East isn’t being held accountable for taking care of its own people so Europe doesn’t have to. The dialogue turns to the Europeans being racist and the US/West bombing the heck out of Middle Eastern countries, but the real conversation should be around the lack of accountability Middle Eastern/Middle Eastern Muslims holding their own countrymen accountable for their radicalism and inhumane treatment of others. Yes, there is racism in many countries in the world. AND I think that’s beside the point in this debate. The real is issue is that the world is expected to deal with Middle East problems, but no matter how they deal, they can’t do it right and the politics divide the reacting countries.
Because most of the things that went tits up in the Midlle East were the fault of the West?
Besides, Western countries won’t say anything against oppresive regimes it they keep economically benefiting them ( Saud Arabia, for an exaple? )
Of all the issues surrounding Brexit, the ME was the least of them, except for the possible accession of Turkey to the EU. You’re thinking of the wrong immigrants, supposedtobeworking.
There are ME countries who took in refugees years before they started going to Europe. Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan are examples. And you Muslims to hold their “countrymen” (FYI, Islam is not a country) accountable? How come a large majority of Muslims joining ISIS and other groups are coming FROM Europe?
And as Sixer said, of all the issues, the ME was the least of them, but thanks for trying to tie it together. It was…cute.
Interesting, and thanks for another perspective.
The news we are getting, the forums I have been reading and the theologian meetings I attended have been focusing on the immigrant issue as the main driver for those who want to leave the EU. The exit would make it easier to police their own borders. As for the root of the immigrant/refugee challenge, I understood it to be from the Syrian crisis, when neighbouring Middle Eastern countries were not taking in the refugees, and providing them shelter. Comments on here reference the darker skinned immigrants, and I guess that left me assuming middle eastern as well. I am aware that muslim isn’t a region. The point I was trying to make (and recognize I missed and could be very ill-informed about) was that radicals in Islam are the ones causing so much disruption to peace and safety in the region. My point was just that if ‘The West’ was always stepping in and trying to engage in conflict with the radicals, the rhetoric becomes the west is interfering, which breeds more division. In my country we have numerous muslim groups headed by an amazing lady who are trying to get those in the faith to be more engaged in holding the radicals accountable. They believe the local governments should be more active in fighting the fight against islamic terrorism, and allow bridges to be built instead of constant weariness and recruiting to fester. I agree that many of the ISIS fighters are from other countries, especially European countries. Many of the also still have ties to their homeland – whose countrymen could be trying to prevent more recruitment and sentiment that fosters radicalism.
But all of that is moot if the issue isn’t ME refugees and immigrants. I have much more reading to do on the subject, and I will. I am sorry for my ill-informed (and cute?) post.
It’s about free movement of people WITHIN the EU member states. Most of them are white. No apologies necessary!
Supposedtobeworking- well, if some huge foreign country bombed every city in the US and invaded and occupied and that resulted in chaos and corruption running free on a much grander scale than usual and the rise of “patriotic” extremist groups, not to mention all the funerals for friends and family, I would think that a lot of our problems afterward were indeed the fault of the huge foreign country. When you bomb cities and deliberately target clean water supplies, you do indeed drastically affect economies and encourage the worst extremists. So we can’t sit back and claim we didn’t have much to do with it. Doesn’t absolve local politicos from their own responsibilities, but definitely our actions have helped them thrive (and often they are on our payroll).
Americans in contact with Iraqis working for change before the first Gulf War were told that the saber rattling was making their efforts a hundred times more difficult, which I can believe because that’s what happens here in the USA. When people feel threatened, they don’t want change and they don’t even want discussion critical to the government’s dumb decisions. The local newspaper was getting letters from people saying they shouldn’t even print letters objecting to such wars, censorship was their patriotic duty.
I can’t believe I woke up to this decision this morning. The consequences of Brexit affect not only them but those of us in Ireland in a huge way. After years of free travel and trade where we could just drive across the border to the northern counties, we will go back to having our country separated by policed borders.
Not to mention the effect on trade in and out of Ireland as we are now effectively segregated physically from Europe by Britain.
Take note American friends, if this can happen, Donald Trump becoming POTUS can happen.
I know I live in London and work at a German Bank all shaking heads. One man said his 4 y/o asked do they not want us here anymore (: My borough voted remain about 70%. I guess it saves me £1100 no need to apply for citizenship as one reason was ability to have free movement
That poor kid that’s so sad. It looks like Scotland are going to split from the UK for sure now. There’s some big changes coming now. I wish you the best of luck and I hope your job remains safe.
I saw a very sad tweet wondering what this decision means for women flying to England seeking abortions. It’s a mess all round.
Rachel – excellent point. I hadn’t even considered that I am ashamed to say. The fact that we had to send our friends, daughters, sisters etc to the UK in the first place to obtain a basic human right is shameful, but at least they could travel there freely. Hopefully this gives the Irish government the push to final make a meaningful difference in Ireland’s archaic abortion laws.
This outcome is freaking me out here at the States because it makes Trump winning the Presidential election not seem like an impossibility. End of days!!!
Sinn Fein is already beating the drum for Irish reunification, and they actually might get it. Northern Ireland does not have the economy to survive as a standalone country. If they stay with the UK, they’re out of the EU. Voting to rejoin Ireland is not very popular, as I understand it, but they might have little choice, given that Ireland is an EU member and might simply be the better economic option.
A lot of people in the south don’t want a united Ireland. We can’t afford N.I.
Yea, please vote for Hillary even if you can’t stand her. Lesser of 2 evils.
Honest to God, I don’t know if I can bring myself to vote for either one of them. The whole thing is making me ill.
I read in an article last night that Ireland’s economy has been really good! Much better than Britain’s, which will probably drag you guys down with it now to an isolationist no man’s land.
Silver lining is that the two Irelands might finally unite and be in the EU, in the long term, years from now when the dust has settled?
I’m in shock as well, and I can’t help but fear this sense of oncoming doom for our US election.
I know, that’s been my first thought, too. But thankfully we have a few months. I think if the election were next week it could possibly tip towards Trump. But by Nov hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
That was my second thought. I got the ‘latest’ result at 4.30am and there went the rest of my sleep. And before I could even put the light on, I thought “If the UK can vote for Brexit, maybe the US will vote for Trump”. As a Brit, both possibilities terrify me.
The Brexit win has “validated” the Trump platform and his supporters are excited that if the UK could do it so can they. It is the unraveling of stability and rational thought. I can only pray that the US demographics are able to stop Trump.
I hope so, too, but we’ve got millions of idiots here.
Because of anger at the Supreme Court’s decision on Obama’s immigration policy which would have protected Hispanics who have lived here for a long time and allowed them to become legal if they jumped through some significant hoops, the Hispanic community leaders and organizers are registering millions of new Hispanic voters. They are going to be a very angry force to be reckoned with – and I’m so glad that they are!!
Crazy.
Scotland will now seek independence and the Sinn Féin (and others) in Northern Ireland have already announced that they want to reunite with Rep. of Ireland. Both Scotland and NI voted to stay within in the EU (NI agricultural industry is heavily subsidized by the EU).
I really hope that this will not end in another violent conflict in Northern Ireland. 🙁
And I wonder who the US will seek out as new partner within the EU – Poland?
That’s a very good guess.
In regard to NI, you need to look at the breakdown of the voting areas too. The East voted to leave, the West voted to stay. If the NI parliament try to unite with Ireland, the ‘leave’ areas may well explode (and in NI you may well be able to take that literally).
>>NI agricultural industry is heavily subsidized by the EU<<
Correct my, if I'm wrong, but Isn't Britain a net contributor of the EU – they pay more than they get back in subsidiaries and funding? Britain could subsidize them directly, and it would cost them less.
you are right, GB is a net conbributor. Politicians supporting Brexit promised to redirect the EU-contributions to the “suffering” health system in GB. Yesterday they already refrained from this promise. So it will be interesting to see how this will play out for the many other areas in GB that are heavily funded by the EU.
Also NI would now have a EU-border with Rep. of Ireland so it would no longer be possible for people from NI to easily cross the border – which many are doing for work etc.
Thanks Donald Trump for the comic relief, you goddam buffoon. What a bozo.
I feel so bad for those who wanted to remain. It’s not easy to have huge decisions that don’t make sense for your country and well-being made by idiots who happen to live among you. (In USA, similar to gun laws and effing Donald Trump in general as a political candidate).
Exactly. Bremain folks have all of my sympathy.
Not to mention that he decided on this visit this day so he’s be able to chime in, either way.
It’s also not easy to swallow the tight margin – what was it 1.5M people?
Trump is such an idiot. Scotland voted for Remain almost unanimously. I do hope they seek independence. The UK held EU membership over their during the their independence fight, and then rip it from them.
Northern Ireland is more tricky. But it’s almost certain Scotland will leave. It was such a close call last time, and people are pissed now.
Did it really all boil down to immigration in the end? I think for a huge part of the Leave voters that was the main point.
Sure did. It’s like the Leave campaign took a leaf out of the Trump playbook, edited out the “American English”, stuck some UK stickers on it, and ran with it.
They didn’t didn’t take a leaf out of Trump’s playbook, they used Boris Johnson’s playbook in full.
And it’s not as though immigration will even go down in this Bright Shiny New World. It’ll just be immigration from other countries. Like capital is going to suddenly say, “Oh, ok. We don’t mind labour costs going up.”
I’m afraid the Brexiters have been sold a pig in a poke, on immigration and on everything else.
Sovereignty was also a huge part of the Leave campaign. ‘Take back control’, inflated statistics about how many of our laws are made in Brussels, etc. There was a lot of inflammatory stuff going around about how Hitler wanted a European superstate, was this what we fought for in WW2 …
And to be very clear, I am not saying that trying to ‘understand’ means being mild and forgiving towards xenophobes. I see understanding as a necessary part of being able to do something about it, to fight it.
I don’t think it did. If you look at the debate leading up to this, you might think so but compare it to what’s happening politically all across Europe and you wonder what’s really at the root of all this hate. I read a very interesting article this week about how during the second half of the 20th century, for most people in Europe (with a few interruptions) the standard of living etc. steadily rose. Yes, the rich got richer but that was fine as long as everyone else also had a realistic chance to improve their lives. A good education and hard work usually meant a good life. That has changed. There seem to be no rules anymore. Job security is basically a thing of the past. Austerity didn’t help and most people are aware that their government runs only part of the country. The rest is run by large corporations, let’s be real. You have no control over your future in societies like that and that’s new to those of us who grew up very much post-WWII.
So yeah, in that situation who do you blame? The foreigners. And 2015 was a scary year for most people. Greece is still a big problem and the problems seem to just pile up in general. They feel f*cked over by their governments and suffocated by the EU and they’re not even wrong. The UK was just faster with this vote than anyone else because anti-EU sentiments were already stronger there.
Anyway, I’m sure there are many many more aspects to this but I think this is one that’s not talked about enough.
VERY good point @littlemissnaughty. It’s important to delve a little deeper when trying to see where this fear of foreigners comes from.
It’s for a large part born out of ignorance. But it is also very true that the enormous changes in our society and economy, and the feeling that the rules have fundamentally changed, cause people (especially the less educated ones) to feel helpless and confused.
And to be very clear, I am not saying that trying to ‘understand’ means being mild and forgiving towards xenophobes. I see understanding as a necessary part of being able to do something about it, to fight it.
The weird thing is that it’s the areas of the country that have experienced hardly any immigration that went for leave in a big way.
The stupid and the crazy are taking over the world.
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. 🙁
These are certainly interesting times.
‘May you live in interesting times’ – ancient Chinese curse.
The smart and sane better address the root causes of what is driving the stupid and crazy because they have arrived as a political force.
I know what drives them. Fear and hate. They feel threatened because their “rightful place” in the world has been challenged. They no longer get to dictate who does what to their body, who gets the job, who lives next door and who gets to marry. They feel unheard and irrelevant. And you know what? That’s tough. The same sort of people felt threatened and unhappy when slavery ended, when women gained the right to vote, when schools were integrated, when abortion was legalized, when birth control became available and on and on. Social change is never easy. And there will always be racist, sexist, homophobic people who don’t feel good when someone they hate takes a step forward towards equality. I’m tired of people saying “try to understand them.” I understand them perfectly. They cannot win. Pandering to them doesn’t work. They have to be defeated.
Exactly, GNAT.
Hatred and fear are powerful.
Hopefully the meteor is coming soon..
@GNAT look at Congress, look at state houses, look at the deadlock on the Supreme Court, the right wing isn’t losing, they are winning. Telling right wing voters to like it or lump it is not going to stop the rising tide of extremism in America.
@Megan,
so what do you suggest we do? Become racists ourselves, to feel better about the situation?
@Megan
I get your point. I just don’t see another solution. If you do, I’d love to hear it. Compromise? How? Ok, you can put “no gays will be served” signs in your window? I don’t agree that they are winning yet. It’s a battle, but what needs to happen is that people who disagree with this type of backlash have to stand up and say so with their vote. I’m going to vote for a woman I have spent twenty years loathing because this is more important.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
I agree about “trying to understand them.” They’re not trying to understand anyone else. If we’re all equal in the eyes of the law and at the voting booth, the door should swing both ways.
@Timbuktu Obviously that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that entrenched hate and scapegoating are often rooted in larger socioeconomic issues. Getting to the root of those problems is the long term solution to the problem. That does not negate the need for immediate actions, such as denouncing hate, enforcing civil rights laws, etc., but a deeper solution is needed and neither Republicans nor Democrats have put anything viable on the table. I am so sick and tired of rhetoric and empty promises.
@Megan
Ok, that helped me understand what you’re saying a little better. You’re not saying we have to try and make peace with racist or sexist or xenophobic ideals – but that part of the reason some of the people are frustrated is that nothing real is getting done by the establishment and some people are searching outside of that for answers? That makes a lot more sense to me. I think we have been talking at cross-purposes a bit. I thought you meant that we have to try to understand a racist/sexist/xenophobic person’s basis for being so and stop aggravating them. So I’m sorry I didn’t get your point. I agree that there needs to be a change. I even think we need a third party for many people like me who fit nowhere in our current system. I just don’t think Trump is the answer.
@GNAT That’s on me for not being more articulate. No, we can never make peace with racism. But we can address some of the root causes in the hopes that the reasons people cling to hate will cease to exist.
Megan, GNAT – here is a class analysis on Brexit from a ethnographer and academic at one of our top universities:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/brexit-working-class-sick-racist-eu-referendum
I think it illuminates your discussion with a bit of specific British detail. And the author was called a racist all over Twitter for writing it.
SIGH.
ETA: Here she is again, post-vote – https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/eu-referendum-many-dont-care-what-happens-next-they-just-wanted-change
@Megan I very much agree with everything you have said!
Sixer – those are good articles that really underline the discussion we should be having, not just in UK but all over the world. Technology was supposed to liberate us, instead the profits have ended up in the hands of the few and many have very little or next to nothing. How can that not be a problem? I am so sad about the results this morning, but it is not true that it is all about fear and hate. It is also about hopelessness and exclusion and these are certainly topics everyone should be concerned about.
@Sixer very Interesting reads. Thanks for sharing.
With a heavy heart , I do have to agree with you and it’s scary. We live in a world where, logic, reason and the ability to have a bigger picture, greater good of all mindset, is discouraged and cast aside in favor of following the loudest liar, because the people that suffer the most are fed up. The sad thing is those that are justifiably fed up are the the ones that will lose the most from extreme measures like these. It hurst my heart and my head that we have devalued humanity and have essentially allowed big business to dominate and dictate how this world moves and it’s just blatantly inhumanly. UGH…
I need a cocktail and a cookie 🙁
Me, too.
The funny thing is that conservatives use the exact same phrasing about liberals. Both sides are too entrenched in their own BS to look at anything objectively anymore.
@Scotchy
“We live in a world where, logic, reason and the ability to have a bigger picture, greater good of all mindset, is discouraged and cast aside in favor of following the loudest liar, because the people that suffer the most are fed up.”
Keyword being bigger picture. People have lost their reasonings to see the future, to think ahead.
@Cynthia
Sadly that is so very true, it’s all immediate and RIGHT NOW, has usurped the yes right now, but be aware of a bigger picture, just think ahead, but rationally think ahead. Emotional reactions hurt everyone and unfortunately we don’t encourage people pressing pause on the emotional response, take a breathe think about it, then proceed. At least here, we reasonable humans are a plenty.. Thank the heavens for that !!!
It’s time for that 3rd cocktail right about now… ssiiiiigghhhh
They’re multiplying and everyone has one vote.
Sadly I’m watching Donald Trump on the national stage showing the entire world that he is unfit and uninformed about what is happening around the world. He is so ridiculous and I am shocked that people can’t see what this fools is doing to this country. Britain just made the biggest mistake of their existence. And I hope that the people in the USA will see the downfall in the next few months and see that this is what Trump will do to this country is elected.
I am so offended and SMH.. I want to throw up..
Donald Trump and those who support him are not our only problem. We have Speaker of the House who believes himself King and utilizes censorship, turning off our tax dollar funded cameras, to silence opposition to his violence loving rule.
As despicable as I find Ryan, and as much as I support the Dems protest on the gun vote, House rules state the cameras roll only when the House is in session. He turned the cameras off when the House recessed which was appropriate, albeit rage inducing.
Ryan is a f*cking monster.
@Kitten Agreed. He is a heartless shill for corporate America.
“When asked for comment about how Paul Ryan compared to political foes he’s encountered in the past, (John) Lewis thought for a second and replied ‘He doesn’t have the range.’ “
Lisa2– most Americans don’t pay attention to the national stage and know very little about the European Union unless they have the money to travel. This is a huge country and it’s quite possible to live your whole life in many areas without ever seeing a foreign citizen. Foreign tourists are rare to non-existent in many areas. Europeans live much closer together and so have had to think more about other countries even before the EU.
This is why international opinion doesn’t have much punch here, even if people know about it. When other countries disagree with our government’s penchant for dropping bombs everywhere, that is actually a plus for the government (if foreigners don’t like it, then it must be the right thing for us to do). The fact that Trump is ignorant about the world doesn’t bother many people, especially his core supporters. We have had many equally ignorant Presidents. President Reagan visited Central America and expressed surprise that “they are all different countries down there”. While visiting France, President G.W. Bush openly ridiculed a US reporter who asked a French official a question in French, and that played very well to his audience back home. This is why candidates who reveal they are fluent in another language or who have (gasp!) actually lived outside the USA as civilians (on a military base is fine) are at a disadvantage. It’s a strange dynamic but very real and very long-standing.
It’s a measure of how fed up people were with the previous Administration that Obama even got elected, a man who actually spent part of his childhood in another country, had traveled as a young man, actually knew people who were (gasp!) Muslims, was even the offspring of a (gasp!) Muslim who admittedly didn’t have much to do with him, and most likely knows more non-English language than would ever be safe to admit. He not only got past the racism, he outran the hackers (who can actually decide the next election unless Hillary gets an overwhelming majority, as I suspect Obama actually did). Our voting machines are downright scary to those who know anything about computer programming, and they are not manufactured by neutrals but rather by those who are closely associated with the Republican Party. The weird court decision in 2000 that put G.W. Bush in the White House was just the beginning, before we knew it those damned machines were everywhere, making recounts virtually impossible. They are far easier to hack than most people realize, so the bipartisan precautions we’ve had in place to deter voter fraud pre-machine don’t really work any more. People tend to trust machines if they haven’t worked enough with them and don’t know any computer programming.
Not to make light of a dreadful situation, but I vote we start a #youkilledthedragons hashtag when the people who voted “Leave” inevitably start whining about the declining production quality.
Am an American working in the UK at the moment, and everyone in the office wanted to vote Remain, so it’s incredibly somber here right now. It literally took me an hour to write a three sentence impartial press release without shouting expletives at my PC.
Meanwhile, my retired English in laws (older generation) voted leave. Good luck to them, they don’t know the hell they hath wrought.
Pardon my ignorance and all.. But Im confused. How choosing this Brexit person means breaking away from the EU? He said he was gonna do that? Or what?
Nevermind. Google is my hero.
Now I realize this is quite embarrasing but I’ll leave it up. Perhaps my cluelessness might give a chuckle during this gloomy day.
Seriously? You live in a cave?
Apparently I do. Didnt know about this referendum happening. No chocolates for me today.
One of my coworkers yesterday asked me who Brexit is. I almost fell over, I was so shocked. We are Americans, but this has been covered extensively in our news. I couldn’t believe she really had no idea.
Trump does, apparently! When asked about Brexit weeks ago, he had no idea what the interviewer was talking about. If this buffoon is elected, it’s the second horseman of the apocalypse. Then all we need is for Canada and Australia to do shockingly stupid things and the entire Anglophone world will be in a special level of hell, for who knows how long. ARRRRGH.
Until he was asked about it by a reporter three weeks ago, Trump had never heard of Brexit, either.
Goats, I believe it. Yes it’s been covered by the news extensively but consider all the people who worship the Kardashian culture. Hard news is not a part of their worlds. And those who look to Fox — did you see the Fox headline about Brexit that said the UK was leaving the UN???? I’d laugh but I think I’m just numb.
Because Americans generally don’t GAF about things that aren’t happening on our soil. Only in the US do we have 3 hours of local news every night. When you go to other countries, it’s mostly world news with local stories here and there.
@Lolabones- Don’t feel bad though! I did get a chuckle so thank you 😉
@Alix oh Canada is always doing shocking and stupid things, we just keep it quiet 😉
Scotchy is correct. We do a mountain of stupid s**t up here and you guys never notice. Hell, a large percentage of your population doesn’t even know we are here thanks to classroom maps that have a white space between the continental US and Alaska.
The only time the US noticed us is when we voted in a hot Prime Minister. I say that drew too much of your guy’s attention and we need to slip back into the shadows.
All of my conservative friends knew what Brexit is. None of my liberal friends did.
You said that already, Robin.
I admit I wasn’t familiar with the term “Brexit” when I first heard it a few months back, but I was aware of the UK’s rumblings about wanting to leave the EU for a few years now and managed to figure out it was regarding secession. We Americans can be rather myopic at times when it comes to world events.
I feel your pain. I’ve been focused on school so much lately that the details of a lot of events have flown right by me.
I too am trying to catch up.
You’re not alone!
Sending support to all of my Brit friends who are sad today. It’s sad for the rest of us in EU too. Hold on.
Thank you. I am distraught today, as is almost everyone I know. My husband’s already looking into potential career moves overseas but we’re just heartbroken.
All of my friends in UK are feeling the same. Wish I could say something to make it better. We’ve had horrible couple of months in my country with the fascist goverment but they managed to fall apart and new elections are on the way. We’re pulling through. The damage is done but there might be something to make things easier, juts wish I knew what it was.
I have already mentioned to my boyfriend that working abroad (in the EU) is a real possibility for me. I’ve done it before, I have a couple of languages under my belt and a transferable career. what about those who can’t ? Zero-hour contracts will become the norm, I fear.
I can see other EU nations having their own vote to stay or go. This snowball rolling down the mountain will become an avalanche in the near future.
There have always been discussions whether to go back to a core EU (consisting of France, Germany…) so that might happen.
But not all countrys have this kind of vote-possibillity. Thank god.
Always the right wing parties want to do so.
It`s all about immigration.
I live in Germany and it`s a shock here, too. The EU is weaker without GB.
I don`t understand it. They alraedy had special treatment. We all have to suffer because of many immigrants – but you can`t just close your boders and let the People die!
would have never thought that this would happen. this is going to get really ugly for people in the uk, the economy is not going to recover soon.
i hope this is not the start of something alike in the netherlands and france.
I don’t even know what to say. I feel bad for Scotland, who voted remain. Actually I feel bad all around. UK will suffer and so will the rest of Europe.
The Dow was up yesterday because people had “shaken off fears that Brexit would win,” so it will plummet today, as will other global stocks. This has worldwide repercussions., though of corse our friends in GB will feel the brunt of it most.
Yeah, I’ve been watching the GBP fall by the minute all day. The next couple of weeks will be tense until we learn just how far reaching the repercussions will be.
What news to wake up to 🙁 and of course Donny Drumpf sticking his nose in it and not understanding a lick of the implications, just trying to pander to the side that got the most votes. The world turned upside down. People from the UK I am so sorry.
I just don’t get this vote at all. What could possibly be the benefits of leaving the EU?
You can keep the Brown people on the other side of the barrier. Unfortunately along with that comes the lack of JOBS, MONEY and Support from allies.
It was more about keeping other Europeans out ( Eastern Europeans mainly), wasn’t it? Or was it about the refugees?
amen. Racists be racists. They can dress it up in arguments about ‘sovereignty’, or ‘funding’ but…..it’s just about immigration. I genuinely can’t even. I seriously thought we’d edge out the Leavers and REMAIN.
re: Locke — UK ppl are also racist against other Europeans. You should hear what some people say about Polish/Romanian/Hungarian immigrants — it’s deplorable.
Oh, I know. I’m Eastern European-ish, and I have a friend who almost got beaten up in London. While he was on vacation no less. He didn’t stick to the usual tourist places.
But that’s xenophobia, not racism, that’s all I’m saying.
Locke:
It was about: 1) immigration (xenophobic racism rather than colour-of-skin racism), 2) perceived sovereignty due to lack of understanding of EU structures and how they interact with UK structures, and 3) about a bunch of people at the bottom feeling disenfranchised and impoverished since the 2008 crash and wanting to give a ruddy great kick to the Powers That Be.
Don’t underestimate (3): if you feel you have nothing to lose, you can do what you like, no matter how destructive it is.
Most racists voted Leave. Not all Leave voters are racist.
Sixer, minus #2, you could be describing the forces behind the rise of Trump. Especially this: “if you feel you have nothing to lose, you can do what you like, no matter how destructive it is.”
Esmom – precisely. I think what is driving all this stuff all over the world – it’s not just the UK and the US – is the failure of our governments to fix what went wrong in 2008. They’ve just been applying sticking plasters and the people at the bottom have been losing out. No surprise that they retreat into racism and take any opportunity to kick establishments in cries of a kind of inchoate rage. Even if they are basically kicking themselves.
I think we are living through the end of a stage of economic development – call it the Washington consensus, Thatcherism, Reaganism, neoliberalism, whatever – that has delivered everything it was going to deliver, for good or bad, and is now irretrievably broken.
We’re all waiting for the new ideas that will get us started forwards again. But they are taking far, far, far too long to appear. I worry about what will be left when solutions are eventually found.
I think for you guys, Clinton represents the last of the old order still clinging on, just, to the old order. Trump represents the apocalypse, not the solution to the old order.
There was also the funding issue, that the UK gives millions to the EU – a figure was flouted by the Leave campaign which was incorrect, when accounting for the rebate the UK receives.
The UK gets an unknown amount back wth a boost to its economy, trade, jobs, tax breaks etc. IMO this issue wasn’t put across strongly enough.
@Esmom- this is exactly what I’m afraid of. That people see Trump as “well he can’t make it any worse”.
@Sixer- sending you good vibes today. Thank you for the great job you do of keeping us informed on this subject.
Esmom says:
June 24, 2016 at 8:34 am
Sixer, minus #2, you could be describing the forces behind the rise of Trump. Especially this: “if you feel you have nothing to lose, you can do what you like, no matter how destructive it is.”
I couldn’t disagree more.
I live in NYC. I work with some Trump supporters. They’re all upper middle class. They have nothing to gain. Plenty to lose, but, they’re too damn stupid and uninformed to understand…SCOTUS, taxes, Social Security, Medicare… they don’t understand how this election will affect them. Sanders supporters, too… if they sit it out. People are just fucking stupid and/or naive.
Those with nothing to lose (lower class, etc.) are mostly Democrats in the U.S. They understand which party is more beneficial to them.
Trump supporters, mainly, fall into two categories (not necessarily, but, often, mutually exclusive):
1) The 1% who want to protect their money
2) Morons who don’t understand what the hell they’re supporting. These include the racists. Snowden is 1000% correct…
Edward Snowden
“No matter the outcome, #Brexit polls demonstrate how quickly half of any population can be convinced to vote against itself. Quite a lesson.”
LinaLamont. Agree to disagree. I think you vastly underestimate the morons supporting Trump.
Google will solve this debate! Esmom is right, actually. While I have no doubt that there are some educated, one percenters who will vote for Trump, I absolutely believe that they would vote for anyone on the Right so it doesn’t make a difference in terms of polls.
What makes the difference in Trump’s popularity are the groups of people who NEVER vote who are now voting for the first time in their lives and they are voting for Trump.
They’re not voting for Trump because he’s running on the Republican ticket, they’re voting for him DESPITE the fact that he’s running on the Republican ticket. The fact that the majority of the GOP have denounced Trump’s candidacy is what appeals to them–they are convinced that he’s a political outsider, a rebel. These people–the nationalists, white supremacists, biker gangs, and other Americans who wax nostalgic about the good ol’ days when Muslims weren’t living side-by-side with white Americans and black people had to sit in the back of the bus, when men could “tell it like it is” without being scolded by feminists.
Anyway, here is Google with the numbers: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/upshot/the-geography-of-trumpism.html?_r=0
I wanted to add that it’s interesting they reference Revere in that link. Revere is a “suburb” of Boston and has a Hispanic population of 23%. They say in the link that in Revere “Mr. Trump won 73 percent of the Republican primary vote”.
The census info for Revere tells me that there are a decent amount of older white folks living there (a working class town that has a history of economic struggles) who probably aren’t thrilled that the Hispanic population has more than doubled over the past 20 years.
Enter Trump….
@Marty Isolation. The same thing Trump wants for the u.s.
The EU is a non-democratic elitist institution. It will fall now like a row of dominoes unless it reforms to meet the will of its member states. God bless those Brits who can still see that the farther away you get from democracy, the closer you get to tyranny.
I am no great fan of the EU.
But Britain has a first-past-the-post system that creates rotten boroughs, a legislature entirely held hostage by the executive, and an un-elected second house.
This sovereignty lark seems entirely fixated on the EU Commission. But it is as much a civil service as it is an executive. Since when did the UK, or any other prominent nation, elect its civil servants?
I have yet to meet a Brexiter who could even name all seven major EU institutions, let alone accurately describe their functions. And it’s to the shame of both campaigns in this referendum that NO effort at all was made to explain them.
Not to mention changing boundaries through Gerrymandering.
‘legislature entirely held hostage by the executive’
That’s not true – we actually have a better Legal system for Law creation than the rest of Europe, the Judiciary can and DOES change and even kick out statute.
I didn’t criticise our judiciary. I like it! I criticised the strength of the executive over the legislature in a cabinet system. Although I am, for example, acutely aware that the opposite problem exists in the US. Nothing is perfect.
My point was that any perceived democratic deficit in EU structures has a counterpart in UK structures, and that this is not a point acknowledged by the “get our sovereignty back” element of the Brexit argument.
Rita – you are hilariously misinformed. Sixer has answered in a much better way than I could, so I will leave it at that.
Yes of course. Everyone who doesn’t agree with you are misinformed! Can’t be that they have come to another conclusion than you.
Differing conclusions are fine. Like I say, I’m no great fan of the EU myself, despite voting Remain.
But maria2, could you compare and contrast the various democratic deficits in the EU and the UK and explain how those deficits can apparently be overcome more easily in the UK than in the EU? With reference to the institutions concerned and their comparative processes?
If we understand how you came to your conclusions, you might even persuade us. You never know.
Well, Maria2, when people vote for something that will do them harm, what conclusion would you like me to draw? Calling the Welsh (net beneficiaries of the EU) misinformed is a far kinder conclusion than others I could draw.
The regions of UK that got most money from the EU are the one who voted to leave. You have screwed yourself over. The EU will survive without you.
Let’s hope so.
Oh we will. We’ll move forward as a stronger EU without the moans and whines of the UK which has blocked every single reform the EU has wanted to implement. Meanwhile the UK will be on its own, isolated and you’ll have nobody to blame but yourselves. The UK has shot itself in the foot and they know it.
In the past year, both Iceland and Switzerland withdrew their applications to become part of the EU. The Swiss foreign secretary said, “Only a fool would want to be part of the EU as it currently stands.
By the end of next week, the markets will have adjusted nicely to these unexpected events, as they always do…… real money never loses.
Next up will be the Netherlands with their own referrendum and then maybe France. If the EU is to survive, they better listen because this is no more and no less than the people’s revolt……….its the Eric Cantor effect who thought he could ignore his constituents and still get elected……WRONG!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry to dispoint. It took only one day to get past the first shock a
oups. wrong move and shorter than intended comment. What I wanted to say that tonight, people are starting to think about the best way to “pick over the remains”. As in what benefits are we going to have from brexit. And they are finding a lot. Just not for UK.
Non-democratic ? We have MEPs you know ?
…and bankruptcy. But who cares right ?
I am angry, upset and disappointed in my fellow countrymen especially the elders who have just ruined the younger generations future.
Millions will now become unemployed, international companies have already warned that they will close offices in UK if voted out of EU, people who have lived her for years and paid taxes have now lost their pensions, welfare benefits and right to vote. NHS will become privatized and medical treatment will now stop being free thus putting millions of lives at risk.
The Leave campaign said a lot of bs to get the votes and they have already backtracked on some not even 1 hour after the vote. Leave votes have proven they are idiots for believing the lies and for revealing their hidden racism.
Only one thing can save UK now and that is article 50 which Cameron has already said he will enforce. That gives UK 2 years to try and negotiate with EU and also allow time to have a second referendum.
Why should there be a second referendum? I am British, and the British public have voted, and that needs to be respected. It doesn’t matter if I personally agree with the result. Britain is a democracy and we have had a democratic referendum and the public have spoken.
My understanding is that it’s an advisory, i.e. non-binding, referendum. I know it’s not common to disregard the vote of the people, at least in the US, but it’s not illegal and it has been done.
*England and Wales have spoken.
+1
Democracy only seems to be working for some when the side they are on wins
Well Scotland has also spoken, it looks like we will hold another independence vote. This may not only be the end of British EU membership but also the end of the United Kingdom. That is also democracy.
Eh, I don’t really see how a second referendum would be “undemocratic” provided it’s done the same way. Frankly, it’s probably a good idea to have a second one farther down the road once people become more familiar with the pros and cons of leaving to ascertain if that’s still what they want. If people are certain of their vote, the results will likely turn out the same.
Cameron’s decision to invoke Article 50 isn’t surprising. No one is going to let Britain leave. That was a given before any votes were cast and whatever the outcome.
Over the next few months and years, there will be negotiations and more negotiations and slowly and surely we shall remain in the EU as if we never voted out.
That’s what I think is going to happen too.
Cameron has resigned, so he’s not even going to do that. Christ, what a mess he’s gotten us into.
@LAK
Your conspiracy theories are so wrong.Cameron has resigned.
You know what LAK I’m incline to agree with you on this. I’m gutted that we voted out, I’m a Remainer even though like others I am not a huge fan of the EU but I can’t see them letting us go without a fight. If I’m going to be very Pollyanna I’d say this kind of shock is exactly what’s been needed for the EU to reform itself, and we all know it needs to do that. Alternatively I could just be talking bollocks out of a desperate attempt to keep going today instead of falling into a never ending pit of despair.
Mira, it’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s how this works. And that fact that this was a non-binding vote, irrespective of outcome, was a known element prior to voting.
I wrote my comment knowing Cameron had resigned. Sorry i didn’t make that clear. That said, he is remaining in office until the new leader is elected, so he will remain in charge of our negotiations until then.
I repeat, the govt’s going to negotiate our stay in the EU. Watch and learn. The exit is supposed to take 2yrs to conclude, but considering this vote, no matter the outcome, is non-binding on the govt, you watch as we negotiate to stay.
I don’t think LAK is a conspiracy theorist. How many times did Ireland have to vote on treaty change because TPTB considered they kept getting it wrong? What was the point of the Greek referendum on bail out?
All establishment forces in the UK want us to stay in. If they can find a way to persuade the population of that between now and when Article 50 negotiations are finished in two or three years time, they will.
That I believe the current best option is to stay in doesn’t preclude my understanding that.
Mira@ LAK is right, look at France.
@Lak
Juncker said there will be no more negations this morning.
Mira: of course Juncker said that. And yet, they will happen. It’s not up to him to decide, it’s upto a council, and an exit process will have to be followed.
…but watch as that process takes forever and a renegotiation happens that keeps us in Europe takes place.
We’ve been here before with the Irish and their referendum to join the Euro. They voted no to begin with. Several months and negotiations later, they had a 2nd referendum in which the answer was yes.
The European project has always been like this.
The big problem is that now the EU is very angry and wants England out ASAP. They are not going to be in any mood to hear about how to negotiate to keep England in. Like a spurned lover, they aren’t going to share any of the benefits of that love with Britain anymore.
A respected legal blogger here, outlining what LAK is saying.
http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/why-the-article-50-notification-is-important/
Sixer: Thank you. I feel like Cassandra about this.
I’m going to copy and paste that article everywhere.
I wasn’t born in any EU country but I’ve lived in London since 2000. Because I haven’t changed my passport (admittedly it was my choice but) I can’t vote. The same for all my friends from EU countries living in Britain, this is our home too, this is our lives too that are being affected. We can’t vote. And yet the immigration issue was brought up again and again. How does that not feel like a kick to the backside ‘you are not wanted’? We could only watch it go down from the sideline. How is Brexit not an insult and a betrayal?
After close to two decades in Britain, today I feel like I don’t know this country at all. Today Britain don’t feel so Great.
I feel exactly the same. Also EU.
I’ve lived in the UK all my life (born here) and I don’t feel I know this country at all either. You are definitely wanted, please don’t think you’re not. I have had people who are voting Brexit tell me to my face that the country is overgrown with immigrants when they know full well my mum was one of them. Look at Farage – he’s married to a German ! People are thinking of faceless hordes (that damn poster) but they know when it comes down to individuals, the UK is better in the EU, and with foreign workers bringing in their energy and ideas.
“Look at Farage – he’s married to a German.” But that’s not the same. Germans are the “good” Europeans. The good immigrants. There is a devide in Europe, not just in the UK, and we are regarded as second class citizens. Always were, probably always will be. And I fear to think what people think about immigrants who are from Asia or Africa.
Locke Lamora – I know, my mum came from a non-EU country. She was relatively lucky, quite rare at the time. My cousins have had it much worse and lo and behold, none of them live or work in the UK anymore.
I want you, Grace.
And if it helps, in my tiny little west country corner of the UK, which voted 54-46 for Brexit, immigration wasn’t a factor at all. People voted on the CAP and on distrust of the metropolitan Westminster culture.
The British Film industry has been able to stabilise and do better than any other sector every time there has been any changes to political or economic climate.
They are the most vocal about issues, but usually for their own industry as opposed to rest of the country.
These doom laden massages were the same when the UK film council was shut down or when Gordon Brown closed down tax loopholes that had previously benefitted the industry.
That said, this referendum had so many people fired up that voter turn out was a record high of 72%.
There has been a demand for a referendum since i can remember. It divided the Thatcher govt to breaking point. This referendum was always going to have this outcome unless Bremain showed the advantages of staying. Instead, they kept up a doomsayer campaign whilst not pointing out the advantages.
Exactly, the pro campaign was basically ‘stay with the EU or you will burn in hell’.
Juncker and Hollande’s reactions (I don’t know what Merkel said) to the results are appauling as well, they basically told the UK to get out as fast as possible without thinking for one second that so many people have voted against the Union they run. This is on Cameron, no doubt, but it’s also on the rest of EU’s leaders that are mostly loathed due to their stupid financial and immigration policies, their corruption, hypocrisy and general lack of respect.
If this referendum happened in any other EU country, odds are the results would be very close, if not the same.
I probably would have voted to stay if I was a Brit because a decision like this must be made rationally, taking into consideration all the financial implications but I respect this result, it was a vote of rage IMO (and no one is asking where this rage is coming from). I refuse to believe that half of UK is crazy.
Still, the percentage difference between the two camps is so small, too small to determine such a huge change for so many people but this is democracy.
By and large, Merkel’s silence on the issue was deafening. I didn’t vote for her and after I warmed to her last year during the refugee crisis Germany found itself in, I was reminded why I could never vote for her. She reacts, she’s never proactive. She never has a clear plan, a position on the big issues before she’s forced. Same sh*t different day with Brexit.
Kinda like “vote Hillary or you will burn in hell…”
Precisely, the Bremain campaign was a total disaster, they tried to scare the British people into staying, they should have remembered our history, try to scare us and we automatically go into an ‘up yours’ response, it’s not rational and it’s not advantageous but it does exist and Boris Johnson took full advantage of it.
You’d think they’d learn from the London Mayoral contest a few weeks ago.
Yeah LAK exactly. The definition of insanity is to perform the same action over and over again regardless of the outcome. This is what these ‘elites’ are then, basically a bunch of nutters.
The stupidity of human beings will never cease to amaze me.
99% of the people I know who were voting for Brexit were doing so on the basis of a sound bite. ‘Make Britain Great Again’. They had zero concept of anything beyond that and a vague idea that this will keep brown people out (‘illegal’ refugees manage to get from Indonesia to Australia in broken down boats, somehow I don’t think the distance between France and England is going to be the deterrent people think it is).
I’m at work right now and a bunch of morons are just now realising the implications. No, you won’t be able to freely travel around the EU like you do know if we aren’t part of the EU. Yes, the pound is crashing, just like everyone bloody said it would the second the idea of Brexit came up and yes, that is rather going to f up your Disney holiday. Yes, this will affect your children’s future opportunities. No, you’re probably not going to get that job in Germany now. Maybe you should have done 5 minutes of research before making such a huge decision, huh.
I’m really hoping sanity prevails and nothing comes of this. The vote alone is meaningless, it doesn’t compel the PM to actually do anything. Cameron retiring isn’t a good sign though.
Completely agree with all you said. The Government doesn’t have to act on the referendum, as it is not legally binding, but I doubt the politicians will want to sacrifice their leather seats in Parliament just to do the right thing, that would be too much for them! SMDH
My dumbass husband who voted LEAVE was actually surprised this morning when Cameron quit, he said “Hey, that wasn’t communicated to us, if I had known he was going to Leave I would have re-considered”. I had to resist the urge not to smack him upside the head.
Your husband sounds like many people I know here in the US. We’re living in a slogan society where few actually think for themselves, let alone think of genuine cause-effect scenarios.
The Leavers peddled one fantasy after another, just to see which stuck. One of the fantasies was that a leave vote was a step to further renegotiation.
Incredibly depressed.
Hugs.
Lemonade? I’ve been avoiding London as too expensive, maybe I’ll pop over this fall if the pound drops more. Ireland may finally unify. That’s all I’ve got. And I fear this may be a predictor of good things for Trump in November. 🙁
That was insensitive. Hardly lemonade that now YOU can afford a trip.
Ireland will not unify over this. Northern Ireland is it’s own country – it can remain it’s own country and join the EU.
The NI economy is nowhere near strong enough to sustain it’s own country. NI still have a sizable agricultural economy, much of which is subsidized by the EU. Scotland is in a better position to be independent, and even they would have a rocky time of it. Most NI residents don’t love the idea of a reunified Ireland, but they might be forced to do so, given that it might be their best shot at economic survival.
The NI economy is also heavily dependent on the Republic of Ireland, an EU member. Brexit will have a severe impact on its economy. Those who are born in NI have the option of having an Irish passport or a British one (some even have both), and there has been an enormous surge of Irish passport application requests all over the region.
Irish reunification took a huge step forward today.
GNAT, the comment was meant to show that there is very little good to come from this. I am horrified by this vote.
Oh, sorry. I’m in a-hole mode today.
I’m sorry I wasn’t clearer. You have every right to be on edge today. 🙂
You are very sweet, thank you.
It’s clear that Scotland will seek independence again — soon — and this time it will happen. 2016 is wild, man!
I voted for scotland to remain in the UK last time. I will absolutely support scottish independence this time around.
I voted for Independence in 2014 and will do so again should it come around. Brexit is not in my name,
What a depressing day for Britain. I voted remain as did my partner. I woke twice in the night checking the BBC website hoping it was all a bad dream…but no. Look I was no supporter of all the EU did but we were stronger together. It’s horrendous watching the usual right wing suspects crowing over their “victory”. I suspect it will be the polar opposite for the lowest income bracket of our country…they will suffer the most.
Look at everything that has happened on one day. We leave Europe, lose a prime minister, potentially lose the leader of the opposition, Scotland now pushing for Independence as are certain sections of Northern Ireland.Chaos.
We need to take a long hard look at ourselves. The right wing media have demonised immigrants for decades, as have the Conservatives. How did they expect the electorate to vote? We’ve been sold the lie that the EU and immigration are the cause of all our ills. Cameron used the referendum for selfish reasons. Now look where we are.
I find it so hard that 4% was all it took to cause this mess. Now we are all being asked to play nice and unite. How do you do that when the views of the British people are split almost 50/50? Answers on a postcard please.
Co-sign all of this.
I know.
Politicians spend years making people take sides radically, then when the damage is done, they ask people to stick together.
I saw on the news this morning how the younger generation wanted to stay, but the older generation voted to leave. This is the type of voting we see here in the US. There are so many old people who want America to stay white and have people speak English, that’s they’ll vote for someone like Trump. Doesn’t matter the major consequences. They’ll be dead soon, so what do they care?
That’s why it’s so important to make sure that younger generations go out and vote.
Another black mark for Cameron, this is. 16-year-olds were allowed to vote in the recent Scottish independence referendum, but Cameron blocked it for Brexit. Bear in mind that 18-24s voted 70-30 for Remain. He scuppered his own side, the fool.
The under 25s. Sigh. Too sad.
The Guardian are blaming the “Northern working class”
This is so important, I can’t understand why didn’t open the vote for 16-years-olds. I’m in such rage right now for my generation.
The Graun spends entirely too much time sneering at the working class. As if racism is entirely the preserve of poor people. Did they not notice the London mayoral campaign, FFS?
Well I always wonder what, these days, is the actual definition of working class.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-Class-Century-Pelican-Introduction/dp/0241004225/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1466771532&sr=1-1
I thoroughly recommend this, spidey. From the team at LSE. It’s very readable.
I am surprised by the results. Sincere good luck to everyone who will be affected by this, I hope there are ways to lessen some of the damage.
I’m not. I’d hoped for the best, but I live in one of the most Eurosceptic areas of the country and the Conservatives have been stirring up anti-immigrant tensions for years now. This is anecdotal, but here the rhetoric stuck. They don’t feel listened to.
I wasn’t.
The strides UKIP has made in the past 6yrs, based on leaving the EU and anti-immigration has been astonishing. You’d have to gave lived under a rock not to see/feel the national mood. Cameron, like Gordon Brown before him, misunderstoid this one.
I am so effin depressed by this. Never thought i would say this but Scotland now needs to leave the UK.We have a completely different political spectrum and interests that are not served by whitehall. If ( middle )England and Wales wants a to put their faith in Farage, Gove and Boris so be it, don’t drag us down with you please, let us go! (honourable mention to London, Liverpool, Manchester and Northern Ireland)
I agree with this but for selfish reasons I want Scotland to stay. But self determination should be a right. As has been stated in the media today, it seems like it may be the end of two unions not one.
It was a difficult campaign to watch. There was so much done wrong on the Remain side. Where was the positivity? Nobody could say we actually benefit for immigration as they had been bashing it for years. Nobody could be positive about the benefits of the EU as they has been bashing it for years. David Cameron actually criticised the EU heavily before negotiations where he tried to limit the free movement of people and suddenly we are to believe he passionately believes in the union. So couple this pessimistic view of EU of people campaigning for staying within it to the jingoistic xenophobic “make Britain great again” nimbyism on the other side and you have a recipe for disaster. The other side had something to believe in.
Never underestimate the stupid, the under-informed and the willfully ignorant. If Britain does leave the EU, how long before it can eat cr- I mean, re-apply?
I believe that to rejoin all other member states would have to approve. Not sure I see that happening.
That’s not an option, once we’re out there’s very little chance we’ll ever be allowed back in.
Or you would have to beg and pay dearly. Even now, I see people strating to say that the longer the Uk will try to take to actually exit, the more insulted/pissed the UE ie harsher will be.
This is equivavelnt to southern US states voting for the GOP.
When uneducated, uninformed masses are allowed to directly influence politics shit like this happens. It’s dangerous.
If UK think the EU will let them negotiate some sweet deal they are delusional.
yep, the times of sweet deals are over as this will fuel independence movements in other EU countries and the EU will (hopefully) not risk that.
I don’t think the chancellor would allow that, she will make an example of Britain for other EU countries who would want to leave. UK is in for very difficult times ahead.
They won`t risk it. The GB had a sweet deal…
And “in is IN and out is out” …..
What does “out” mean if you reject the Norwegian or Icelandic model? These countries pay hard cash to be able to participate in the common market. Yet they’re not allowed to vote what happens with said cash. If Brexit is taken seriously “out” must be totally out. Look what “out” can do to … say the Russian economy … when the EU really means it.
I *so* hope they don’t overreact!
@Toni. Interesting. I’m sure you don’t mean everyone in the southern states are idiots, but that you want both sides of political debates to be fairly shown to people who are about to vote (unless I misunderstood you?)
It’s interesting how each party tries to convince people to choose them and their party’s ideas. Bremain will have to reassess their failed tactics.
The UK had it’s sweet deals for a long time- they obviously weren’t good enough. They are now on their own.
Thank you for referring to the southern United States as uneducated and uninformed. Speaking of uniformed, it might interest YOU to know that Trump won in California, New Jersey, Delaware, Montana and many other states that would be hard to find on a map of the southern U.S. But do continue to stereotype and blame the south for our country’s failings. It has been done forever, so don’t bother to give it any real thought.
Come on!! The south is very very red – conservative, for those who don’t know. Most southern states hate taxes so those of us who pay federal taxes in wealthier states like the northeast and western states know that our federal taxes are redistributed and given to southern states, who hate us and still call the Civil War the “War of Northern Aggression.”
No state has a monopoly on ignorant and racist, but the south does win that contest every single time.
google is publising UK search results:
https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/746303118820937728
+250% spike in “what happens if we leave the EU” in the past hour
would have been a nice idea to search that before, eh?
Oh god, that’s unbelievable. I’m literally shaking my head.
The British can no longer make fun of us in the US for being the stupidest voters in the world. They just gave us a run for our money.
I’m in an office with a bunch of leave and omg the comments they had said about how happy the UK is leaving is down right rude and hinting on racism big time. This is the future we have now in the Uk….
I feel for you, in France the right-wing is saturing the media with smugness, I can’t stand it.
Honestly they are dancing up and down with glee and congratulation themselves on being master of the universe. I was a remain and they don’t give a S*** about my opinions. I’m just burying my head down and ignoring them. I’m also the oldest person in the office as well!!
I’m sorry you have to hear that! Hugs from a EU neighbour!
I am terrified. Terrified. 75% of the 18-25 year olds who voted wanted to remain- and this is the future they’re left with.
Sigh. Sigh. Sigh.
Not necessarily in that order, two things really made me sad right now: a) how immigration card was used time and time again throughout the VOTE; b) the under 25 years, how unfair is it for them?
It’s hard not to feel that the baby boomer generation-who were given everything- have just deliberately opted to take that away from their children and grandchildren based on misinformation and for the flimsiest of reasons. It’s deeply unfair.
Yep, there’s a viral post going around and one of the points was about how British youth are now robbed of experiencing living in one of the 27 other countries. What a waste.
Honestly, I have no idea what to say, I wish you the best of luck these upcoming months.
Several of my friends are regretting taking a gap year from school, they might have to return and study in France instead.
My uncle, who is a Dutch born biologist, has been living in the UK for a few years with his family, and he’s said that no matter how much he loves living there, the funding would go down the drain and he might even lose his job, so he’s thinking of moving already.
In any case, this just turned up my fear of a Trump presidency for the USA.
I know it’s going to be tough for a while, but maybe it will work out in the end. Won’t it take a couple of years to leave?
It’ll take around 2 years apparently.
Up to two years. But already they are shown the door.
Honestly, as powerful as the UK economy is, I doubt it’ll have dire long term effects. It might have some economic fallout for a bit, but nothing to the extent of a complete collapse. More of the frustration might arise from having to renegotiate things they could take for granted before – i.e. international travel and tariffs. The leaders of the EU are the ones who I think should really be worried right now. When a major player like the UK pulls out, it starts make others reexamine their own concerns about the EU.
So sorry British friends. How quickly things can turn due to the misguided actions of craven politicians. Cameron=weak. Racism=destructive and ignorant.
For those worried about implications for Trump’s election prospects, remember the US has an electoral college system filtering the popular vote to try to balance the interests of the 50 states. It is highly imperfect but it means there isn’t a direct popular vote as there is in a referendum.
The Brits sealed the fate of the UK and EU yesterday. The Scots and N Irish are going to run for independence now because they know not to bite the hand that feeds you. The glory days of the UK are over. I work as a German to English translator and my primary client a UK firm based in Birmgham has a contingency plan for the Brexit scenario. It is pretty simple: move its headquarter toIreland I imagine you can multiply this scenario exponetially for numerous other companies and industry. The Brexiters are such fools. But then again people who follow populist movements usually are.
Elite boomers’ fault. As always. They voted for something millenials rejected. Jo Cox’s sacrifice was all for nothing. Boris Johnson is favorite to replace David. Then this November, American boomers turn to vote for Trump. Year of the Monkey indeed.
First, Jo Cox wasn’t sacrificed, she was murdered. She did not make the choice to die. In sacrifice, a group will select a member to kill to appease the gods. But her death, if anyone wants to find meaning in it, was for nothing, and it’s horrifying to think that awareness that the Leave campaign drove someone to kill was not enough to change the minds of Leave voters.
Second, I don’t know about the vote breakdowns, but I know plenty of people over age 50 in the USA who resoundingly reject Trump and all he stands for.
Wow, I am shocked and saddened that so many of you are calling 51% of the people who voted racist and stupid.
Maybe the 49% that voted remain are the stupid ones.
You don’t know much about this, do you?
And maybe nobody is stupid.
Oh, a handful of people ARE racist and stupid. But I’m with Spidey. Most aren’t stupid-they’re scared and making rash decisions.
But when their actions are stupid…
Apparently if you vote the way the elites or trendy people want, then you are clever and informed and if you vote the other way then you are stupid, ignorant and racist. Or the vote was rigged.
See all the comments on this thread.
And they wonder why people lie to pollsters and are shocked when results never align with their way of thinking.
@LAK
“Apparently if you vote the way the elites or trendy people want, then you are clever and informed and if you vote the other way then you are stupid, ignorant and racist. Or the vote was rigged.”
Are you being serious?? Gove, Johnson and Farrage are just as elite as Cameron and Osbourne. They are all from the same background. And Leave campaigners where talking about rigged votes before the election, see pencil gate. So i don’t think thats a great argument to bring this up if you want to demonstrate how unreasonable Remain side is.
Yes! Thank you LAK. The only people I know who voted ‘remain’ are on this board. Everyone I know was an ‘outer’. And before you shout at me, I’m a person of color.
Look, people travelled abroad before the EU. People studied abroad before the EU. And yes, people worked abroad before the EU. Its called a visa.
If you had to choose between having a government you elect or having to fill out a form for a passport/visa which would you choose? Would you give up your sovereignty so you can visit easier?
Would you mind having to wait 2 weeks for a doctor’s appointment?
How about when you’re pregnant and in labor, would you be peeved when turned away from the maternity ward, because its shut, because its overcrowded, because you can’t control who you’ve let into your country? Would you be miffed?
Those were the arguments for *controlled* immigration. If you do not believe my examples, think I am exaggerating about the pregnant women turned away from closed maternity wards, do fact check.
I am sorry for those who are frightened. We are in a period of change. That’s normal. Things change. Even the EU is itself, not static. Look up the riots in France. Or the riots in Greece. Or the riots in Calais. All within the last week. Nowhere is perfect.
We voted for sovereignty. Now let’s pull together and try to make this work. Because we can. Because we must.
@Mira + 10 000
Mira, i haven’t offered a detailed argument on why Bremain lost beyond pointing out that they should have concentrated on positives instead of scaremongering.
It is fact as present on this board and elsewhere that Bremain is dismissive of Brexit result as one by ignorant, stupid, racists.
This is the root cause of why Brexit results happen. 52% of a very high voter turnout (seriously, only tinpot countries tend to this high a voter turnout. West tends to apathetic abstainers), chose Brexit. Why is that? Calling them stupid, racist and or ignorant doesn’t answer the question.
Every election/referendum has ended with the losing side calling the winning side stupid, ignorant or racists as applicable. And every recent election/referendum has seen an overturn of the expected status quo result by the people being called stupid, ignorant or racists.
If the status quo doesn’t listen, you get these protest votes.
What is it with the British working class and it’s dislike of money and intellectualism? While I understand that the Conservative govt has cut benefits etc and that the working class is rightly angry, surely the answer is aspiration rather than tall poppy syndrome? And voting in favor of inclusion rather than the xenophobia/racism circa 1933 does not make one elite or trendy; it makes one human
Elaine, EU countries do not give up their sovereignity.
And your NHS doesn’t work because the government doesn’t invest enough money in it. They decided to give 200 mio less to the health sector this year, but sure, those damn immigrants are to blame.
LAK, if the US ends up with Trump, it will be the less educated and racist. The exit polls show the less educated and those against immigration supported BREXIT. Pointing that out isn’t calling everyone racist.
Sigh.
I think people fairly regularly vote against their own interests. I think some people are racist.
This does not mean that I think Brexit voters are, by default, stupid and/or racist.
Anyone know how the vote was distributed along class lines?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/
There you go. DE classes big majority for Brexit.
Thanks. Prior to the vote I got the impression that it was the members of middle class who were making the most noise about staying. Hence my inclination to want the leave vote to get up. Of course in their arrogance the middle class will put it down to the working class being too uneducated to make the right choice.
You’d not be alone. The sneering liberal middle class are as much to blame for the Brexit vote as the right wing xenophobes are. They had from 1997 to 2010 to address the festering areas of deindustrialisation that bred the Brexit sentiments and they failed lamentably.
Wow. Disastrous. I honestly didn’t think it would go this route. I work with European markets for a major American tech company and my colleagues and friends and I are pretty depressed about this. My partner is Scottish and is pretty convinced that Scotland will be leaving to stay in the EU. And no pity for Cameron. His theatrics caused a lot of this.
I’m British and voted to remain. I live in London and glad the majority voted to remain but very sad my hometown of Birmingham chose to leave as well as the majority of other towns and cities. I can’t believe smug faced Nigel Farage and clueless Boris and co have deceived so many people. It really is the blind leading the blind…..
I’m going to drown my sorrows later.
Why wait? It’s what, 4:00 there?
That’s beer o’clock, my friend.
I’ve just bought 2 bottles of red wine. Will be starting very soon. I should have started drinking earlier come to think it. Cheers!
Sorry I should have said “wine o’clock”.
I’ll be thinking of you guys when I crack my beer tonight.
Cheers, Jeo 😉
I started at 11am (I have a day off today)… Voted Remain but two of the councils in my county (Essex) featured in the top 5 Brexit counts.
All I can say is that you guys better be back here, booze in hand if/when Trump is elected. Deal?
I was surprised the remain vote in London was only 60%, that is very low for the major metropolis and probably the major beneficiary of the UK being in the EU.
This is just terrible, so disappointed.
I’m heartsick, I just can’t believe my country has done this, based on dreams of ‘Making Britain Great Again’, and some Rule Britannia bullshit. I don’t even know how to express all my feelings about it, apart from the deepest disappointment and the most anger I’ve ever felt rolled in to one
David Cameron is going to go down in history as the knobhead who pulled the UK out of Europe, ended the Union (Scotland and probably NI will surely go for Independance now) and possibly sparked off the beginning of the end of the EU as well.
I’m embarassed to say I really did not pay attention to this. Have a lot going in with one of my ASD kids lately so I’ve been distracted. But when I read that Donald Trump said it was a great thing that they left the EU I knew it was bad.
The sad thing is that the communities that voted to leave are the ones that will suffer the most when the EU money they rely on dries up. Money that funds the baby boomers services and pays for the regeneration of those northern towns. Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot.
Little englanders have a lot to answer for. City jobs are already being moved out, more jobs will go over the coming months for other industries. I hope u find comfort in ur narrow mindedness when u r struggling to any bills and find a job.
Is this how we Usher endtimes? Like No Joke Is this what we invent the Time Machine For? Middle East broken up fighting Isis South America Goes down in Hunger and Zika corruption and Oil Prices and The Rise of Trump and his Ilk?? Like these past few weeks have been just a f*cking Pile up
Throw in rapidly accelerating global warming and I think it’s safe to say we are all f-cked.
Seriously. Hold me, QQ.
I didn’t even know about all the stuff happening in Brazil (yes I am the American stereotype that I complain about, apparently) until the BF sent me a bunch or articles yesterday. Holy sh*t.
us today though https://36.media.tumblr.com/488e6d8f3214f689725ea25140534924/tumblr_notbb5J6IA1qa9oovo1_400.jpg
I once heard someone remarking that the Western World now looks like the last 100 years of the Roman Empire looked before it all came crashing down.
This is the exact same thing I said to my coworker in the UK, it’s like the end of times is coming
The US definitely looks like Roman Empire from the inside. I don’t think it is the end of time. It is just the end of the cycle. One Empire falls, others will rise. The only way to avoid a collapse is to learn some humility to counter arrogance and hubris. But nobody learns humility willingly, it comes as a result of a shock like WW2. Many people learned humility in WW2, unfortunately those lessons are now being forgotten.
American here, but I understand why this happened. You can see it in this thread. Calling everyone who didn’t agree with your vote stupid, racist, uneducated, low class, working idiots. While there was definitely some of those voting to leave, I don’t believe 50% of the U.K. are stupid.
This is what you get when you elevate the top 10% and decimate your middle and lower middle classes. This is what you get when you get all of the uber rich people and the lying politicians in your country to tell the masses what’s good for them and that if they don’t vote a certain way that they’re stupid and racist. Why on earth should these people believe the Eton boys club knows what’s best for them? Could it be that the stagnant wages and rising inflation over the past 30 years hasn’t been great for the whole country? Could it be the long lines for the NHS and school places are all in their heads? Their inability to buy property?
Nope. They’re all just racist and stupid. If you keep poking and taunting the bear, the bear will fight back.
There’s a similar sentiment on this side of the pond, but it’s not all Trump. It was also Sanders. It’s not a class thing. It’s an anti-establishment thing. The establishment have been screwing up for decades now, (yes, including the EU), and they are reaping what they’ve sown.
I agree 100% with you.
How anyone is shocked at this outcome is beyond me. And clearly lessons are not being learnt if the conclusion is that 52% of the voting public are stupid, misinformed racists and that’s why they voted this way.
Uh, there is correlation between ignorance and voting for Brexit. Both the Telegraph and Guardian confirm that those with a degree (a proxy for being less ignorant) tended to vote stay, while those without degrees voted out.
There are plenty of ignorant, educated people and likewise many wise, “uneducated” people.
There are many people, the world over who fall on both sides of intelligent or stupid with or without degrees.
I’m not quick to accept that only stupid people voted Brexit and only educated people voted remain or that a vote in either direction makes one more intelligent and the other way stupid.
I don’t know the statistics on this, but I imagine they are similar to Trump voters. The majority of them are uneducated or poorly educated. That doesn’t mean they are stupid, but I believe an educated, informed person can make a better decision about a complicated issue than an undereducated, uninformed person. If that’s elitist, so be it.
The stats say people with higher incomes, higher social class, and degrees were more likely to vote to remain. But yes I’m sure, the stats don’t reflect the thorough reasoning that clearly the out voters engaged in.
I thought the whole point of a good education was to make good citizens. “Low information voter” is just a euphemism for someone who doesn’t read, doesn’t think, wasn’t taught how government works or didn’t care when taught, and thus is easier to influence with propaganda and last-minute appeals to the emotions.
+++
@Lostmymind There’s lot of truth in your comment, but some other bits are quiet demagogic. And as a black woman, I have an irrational dislike for this new trend, “i’m not racist, i’m just anti-establishement”. When your vote is on the same bucket as Boris Johnsson and Nigel Farage, you know what are the consequences.
PS : I think, Johnsson is a member of the “Eton boys club”.
@ Lostmymind — I understand anger against the establishment, on both sides of the pond, but this vote seems akin to protesters who loot and burn their own neighborhoods in riots. If people feel that they have nothing to lose, and believe that they have no voice unless they (collectively) take drastic measures, is dousing and burning themselves the best remedy? I understand the history and impetus for change, but I don’t understand the “bear fighting back” by burning his own forest.
You can’t read my tone, so let me say that I pose the above question honestly, with no snark. I would really like to understand.
(While these elections expose a massive divide within our countries, I suspect that the divide is not in whether or not things need to change, but in how to bring it about.)
Oh, I get your tone. I ain’t mad. Lol. I don’t think they’re looking at it as burning their house down. More like….having to downgrade to an apartment for awhile until they get themselves sorted and can work their way back up again.
I don’t doubt it’s going to be rough for a bit. I don’t think any of the leavers are expecting rainbows and unicorns today. I think they just want a change. And they’re willing to risk it being rough in the short term for long term stability.
I think the EU is going to have a rocky time. I also think Scotland should hold off on the referendum and see how the EU is going to go before they jump into the ether. I also think the EU wants the UK out ASAP because they don’t want any of the other countries getting ideas, especially if the UK manage to pull off some trade deals in the next couple of years.
It’s going to be very interesting. I do feel for all the people who don’t work in their home country, though. That’s going to be messy.
^^^this! A million times, this! When I saw the letter that all those bankers and business leaders signed for Remain, I knew it wouldn’t make a bit of difference. Those same people drove the economy off a cliff in 2008, and continued to pump money into zombie economies like Greece (and some helped Greece cook the books to get into the EU in the first place). People just had enough of it. Watching businesses fail, house prices rise, NHS lines get longer and longer, and so on. This is a vote giving the elite politicians and their bed buddy business leaders the two-finger salute. Farage and Johnson simply tapped into the discontent and stoked the flames.
Exactly. It’s not just the elites. It’s the rich celebrities and bankers and corporations. All of these extremely well off people who are not overtly affected by free movement except in a positive sense, are trying to tell people who are on welfare, are losing their pensions, losing their kids school places, can’t afford to buy a house, had to move back in with their parents, have to wait 6 weeks to get a GP appointment, that everything is GREAT! We’re so much better in! Look at all the benefits!
Well, yeah, it’s great for them. Instead of addressing their issues, they told them that they were stupid and racist and they would be idiots to vote out. The upper middle classes get great lives and the poor get…..access to cheaper holidays? That they can’t afford? The middle class is dying a death and people are angry.
This does remind me a bit of 2008. Trustfunders were crying in their PBR, bemoaning their deflated accounts and that they’d have to get jobs now. The rest of us were like, “welcome.” Kept our heads down and got back to work. Just another day.
It’s also foolish to overlook the very real issues the EU has in terms of its bureaucratic and financial obstacles. If anything good comes out of this, it may be that the EU leadership gets a kick in the rear when it comes to addressing some of the legitimate issues brought against it.
What a depressing turn of events. As a liberal Democrat living in the very reddest of states, AL, this is pretty much how I feel anytime we vote on anything. I truly feel for all of our fellow commenters who voted remain.
Who cursed 2016??? We truly must be on some kind of tipping point, I just hope it isn’t toward a modern dark ages.
I’m devastated! Part of the 48% remain. What a mess we’re in. It’s the end of the United Kingdom. Don’t think that EU is perfect by any stretch but this decision makes me feel very sad.
“The end of UK”???
Jesus… kindly take it down a few notches. Switzerland and Norway are doing fine. So are the US and China. They are non members either.
You will not starve to death. The UK was bleeding too much money to Brussels from the looks of it.
Well, guess what Norway has that will soon go away along with Scotland? It’s oil.
realist – but it likely WILL be the end of the UK. Scotland is likely to secede and Northern Ireland may do too. The UK will then simply comprise England and Wales.
@Lambda
Norway is also integrated in europe in the sense that they are part of the european economic area. If the Uk was gonna follow their example i don’t really see the point as we would pretty much be paying as much money or more as if we had remained but we would have no say in what goes on in europe.
China and US were never in the EU. Norway and Switzerland have strong treaties with the EU.
What you seem to forget or don’t understand, is that brexit is seen as “jumping ship”. As in Rats are…. This morning comments were about the shock. Now they’re ..not so nice.
So if the tide doesn’t change, UK will have a very hard time negotiating treaties half as good as what Norway Switzerland, USA or even China have.
I’m completely heart broken for my country today, I’m heart broken for the mess my children are going to have to clean up largely because a lot of Leave voters voted that way because they thought it wouldn’t happen. I’m not convinced it was taken seriously. We’ve brought it on ourselves.
Learn from our mistakes 😬
Whoah! I’ve mostly been following Brexit via commentators on CB. Condolences to youz Bremain regulars.
One positive side to this, I can schedule my dream trip to London now because the dollar is strong on the pound.
@Melly; I know it’s bad, but that crossed my mind. Not that I have the money now anyway…
I agree with you completely lostmymind.
I woke up this morning, looked at the newspapers and saw a photo of Nigel Farage triumpfing and exsulting over the result. What the hell happend?
I live in Wienna, Austria, and here we’re shocked and sad to see UK live the EU.
This has very little to do with xenophobia or racism. But the terrorism permeating every day like now in Europe, and quickly becoming the new normal, doesn’t help.
Michael Caine voted for Brexit. He is a dumb ignorant racist too???
Attempt to reply to above post.
Well God forbid we ever have a rational conversation about terrorism without people screeching “RACIST! RACIST! RACIST!” If we could have done that Donald Trump for President might never have happened!
?
Does anyone know what will happen to the British Monarchy?
@ Kitty – Nothing.
How do you know that?
….wrong place
In response to Kitty:
Here’s an article that explains what would happen. The answer is nothing as they do not have political power at all, however, it could lead to a vote of the other Commonwealth’s to abolish QE as the head of power, which in this day and age is mostly symbolic.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/21/what-queen-elizabeth-thinks-brexit.html
That is what I was talking about. Will this make other countries in the Commonwealth leave Britain? Is that bad for the monarchy?
I don’t see Canada bailing anytime soon but I can’t speak for the country or the rest of the Commonwealth. It also really doesn’t make a difference to the Commonwealth countries as the royals are figureheads only. The UK may vote to abolish the monarchy but I think that they have more pressing matters to worry about at the moment. Will this happen in the future? Who knows? It might. If they added us Commonwealths in, we may vote to toss them as it really makes no difference to us. Right now, they are the last thing that anyone is concerned with.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the monarchy will be abolished in the future.
@Kitty – Me either but I think that that has moved a bit down the list of priorities as of today.
Today was a huge blow because the breakup of the UK may happen and that’s not good for the monarchy at all. Also Daily Mail readers are idiots don’t read the comments on BREXIT
Won’t somebody think of her majesty!
I wish Canada would bail on the Commonwealth. Then we could reform our political system and change our money. I mean wouldn’t it be great to have a Celine Dion $20 bill??? 😉
Why do you have to come out of the Commonwealth to reform your political system?
And Justin Bieber: loonie?
Except that if economic conditions get dicey, Bill and Cathy Cambridge flying around in their special helicopter to go to Wimbledon is going to cause a LOT more anger than it does now – and it already gets a lot of people mad.
Then its a win-win for all of us!
It did make a difference several years back when former PM Harper asked to ‘prorogue’ (shut down) Parliament early, basically to avoid inquiries that could have brought him down.
He appealed for permission to the Governor General, an appointed official intended to ‘represent’ the Queen’s interest as head of the Canadian state. The GG gave Harper permission to prorogue Parliament and he stayed in power quite a few years longer than many people desired, ultimately gaining a majority government. That’s why the vote to throw him out last year was so big and unified, it was pent-up rejection.
So yes, the Queen or any British monarch is more than a figurehead at times like that.
We did have a monarchy before we joined the EU or the EEc as it was. The monarchy doesn’t come into the equation.
If Scotland goes independent, maybe the Queen will be frisked at the border when she vacations there?
Agree with Amy ^
@Realist, go check Caine’s comments on #Oscarssowhite. In short, yes.
Uh…http://www.theroot.com/blog/the-grapevine/_oscarssowhite_michael_caine_thinks_blacks_should_be_patient_charlotte_rampling/
Terrorism is INSIDE Europe. You have to remember that the people who have been making the attacks, as well as the person who killed Jo Cox were born and raised in Europe.
The problem with radicalism is not die to migration, it’s with society.
Edit: this was @ “realist”.
Realist, 1000000+.
BS
And how does Brexit help?
The UK wasn’t part of Schengen to begin with. And if they want to access the single market (EU), they’ll have to accept immigration from EU countries because that will be one of the main conditions.
I am not British and I confess that I am deeply confused about what all of this means. So please pardon my ignorance when I ask questions about it!
First of all, what is the long-term economic damage? The media here in the U.S. makes everything into a catastrophe no matter its importance or consequences. That makes it harder to figure out if this is a true economic disaster or CNN/MSN/Fox News are just needy for ratings again.
Secondly, do the voting results mean that free movement is stopped immediately? Or can people still move freely from the UK to the EU for the time it takes to adjust or make new laws? Are the people who voted to remain instantly “stuck” with Britain or can they simply choose to move to another EU country to live?
This is a true economic catastrophe whose ramifications will hurt for a long time. The world changed overnight
It’s up to the UK to leave and they have a couple of years to make the divorce final. Maybe there will be some negotiation during that time but for the time being, great uncertainty and instability, and the EU has no reason to be kind and cooperative.
Nothing happens yet – in fact, legally, the referendum is not binding. It’s simply an opinion poll and if he chose, Cameron could just say, “Well, thanks for your input, but this is a dumb decision based on nothing and I’m not going to honour it”. Of course, any party who ignored a referendum outcome like this would pay for it in the polls when the next election rolls around, so in real terms, his hands are tied.
When they formally notify the EU of Britain’s intention to leave, then the negotiations begin – to iron out exactly how we disentangle ourselves from forty years of EU membership while continuing to interact with it, and trade with it, and travel within it. It could take years to reach a satisfactory arrangement – the fact that no exit strategy was presented by the Out campaigners prior to the referendum is a major criticism of the campaign: people literally do not know what they’ve voted for, because it doesn’t exist yet. The fact is, though, that unless we literally isolate ourselves from all trade with the EU, we still have to accept *their* terms. And the Out campaign has been saying “Oh, we’ll still be able to travel, trade, we won’t lose out, we just won’t have to pay in so much, nothing else will change”. Which is idiotic. If nothing will change, why have the referendum?!
Maybe it won’t change all that much day-to-day, but the loss of prestige and the little inconveniences will hurt over time. When the people of Britain discover that their weekly grocery shop is going to cost twice as much because of additional EU tariffs on goods for non-members, or that they don’t get the same statutory sick pay because we’re not subject to EU worker’s rights anymore, or that they have to wait in the non-EU member line at airport security for five hours and get their bags checked while EU members waltz past (and have to pay more travel insurance because they no longer get healthcare in other EU countries), or that their EU-based parent company is pulling their operation out of England because of the additional headaches involved in having non-EU offices subject to different standards – and that we are still not “independent” because we HAVE to comply with SOME EU regulations just to be able to trade with our neighbours, even though we will have given up the right to influence those regulations – when they realise that we have no doctors or nurses or midwives anymore because college is too expensive and there are no more bursaries and grants, but there are also no foreign doctors coming to find work here (and currently the NHS is very dependent on immigration) – when they realise that the aid given to flood-hit areas of England by the EU is no longer available, and our economy is not strong enough to fill the gap because let’s face it, we just don’t *produce* that much anymore, we’ve long since sold off most of our industrial concerns, we import more than we export, nobody *needs* us because it’s 2016 and the Empire is long gone – by the time they realise all this, they’re going to be pissed, and it will be too late.
Thank you for this very thorough explanation of how this vote will affect every day people.
I don’t really know a lot about this but
I feel like the EU while good have to many laws that allow bad people to get more rights and benefits than they should. All I know is they allow radicals to preach hate in the UK and they can’t reject them and their human rights court said the Norway govt were not giving full human rights that that guy who murdered all of thoes children who were on camp.
Is it an overreaction with the economy?? yes everything has crashed but isn’t that more s knee jerk reaction. The market and the pound will be up again soon. I’m sure of it. People trade currency will be buying the pound cus it’s so cheep now.
I don’t know like I said i know nothing on this, I hope next week can read the news that can shoe what the long term effects are. I know it will take 2 yrs to leave the EU and for the UK to make new laws.
I just find the whole thing confusing.
Why did UK wanted the ref in the first place ?
How about Googling “Brexit” for some background?
I’ve seen several reports so far about Brits Googling “what is the EU?” wow.
This referendum, just like the one in Greece last summer, was total bullshit to begin with. It’s throwing your responsibilities as a politician to the people, who are much less informed of the possible consequences of their vote. We voted “no” to a deal with the EU and IMF which terrified me. I voted for yes. But the aftermath, when our prime minister ignored the vote, was even more bullshit, even if I didn’t agree with my fellow Greek vote.
I don’t think the British PM can afford to ignore the vote of the people. He shouldn’t have gambled the future like this. Now my fellow British will have to live with the outcome. Sad day for all of us in Europe.
I will go back read the comments in a minute but here is my question:
Can you Brits do a re-do? Can another vote be presented to the people at a future date? Say 5 years now once London is done burning.
Possibly. To secede from the EU, the UK must invoke Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon. Negotiations on an exit package should be concluded within 2 years. At that point, it’s possible the government could call another referendum to agree the exit package. If that referendum was lost, the possibility of staying in is then revived.
Do you think that is very likely Sixer?
That was the last post I was just reading Sixer. I couldn’t figure if that was for this situation or if Scotland and/or NI were to leave the UK. What a mess this all is.
LAK does, spidey!
I think everything is in flux and predictions are like pinning tails on donkeys.
For all we know, this vote will be like a domino topple and exacerbate all other frictions in the EU – eurozone woes, other rightist populist movements in other member states, etc etc – and by the time we’ve negotiated an exit, the whole EU will look very different indeed.
What bothers me – at the risk of repeating myself for the gazillionth time! – is not so much the in or the out, but the instability ahead.
M.A.F. – not just a mess either: a chaotic, unstable mess. Imagine this one for global financial markets – the London and German stock exchanges are about to integrate. Two of the world’s largest financial centres – right at the moment the UK decides to leave the EU. The instability is multi-faceted and bloody dangerous. For everyone, not just the Brits.
They were going to merge their stock markets?!
I’m surprise there isn’t any rioting, at least not yet anyways. I see a lot of regret though.
What Sixer said.
And i shall be very surprised if we go rather than lots of posturing whilst we negotiate to stay.
And when we have the next referendum, it will be a resounding IN.
At Sixer, my prediction predicates on the EU remaining rather than falling apart completely.
I dont think it’s possible…
Article 50 specifies that “The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.”
So if there is no agreement, in two years, UK will be out of the EU, for good. Article 50 simply enable the membres to agree on specific terms. If there is no agreement on those term, in two years, the treaties won’t apply anymore.
Lilou: It happened with Ireland and the Euro. At first they said no, but that wasn’t the right answer for Europe. They held another referendum, which returned Yes. And wouldn’t you know it, that one stuck!!
LAK : maybe Ireland didn’t notify the decision? And I don’t think it was the same (leaving UE). The way I read this article, once a country took this decision, there is no way back, unless EU agrees to do so…
Lilou
A great many UK lawyers are suggesting that the Article 50 notification isn’t going to be sent any time soon – the Brexiters don’t seem to have an agreed template to begin negotiations with (whether to negotiate on the basis of staying in the EEA, etc etc etc). And nobody can force the member state to send the notification regardless of what referenda they have. Hence, presumably, why Cameron went so quickly.
Thus there will be a delay while they decide whether it’ll just be the government or a cross-party argument about the basis and aims for negotiation.
There are a good number of qualified and sensible commentators who think that if the Article 50 notification doesn’t go in almost straightaway, it probably won’t go in at all and some fudge of a compromise will be made, which we will then be asked to vote on again.
Like I say, I don’t think anyone can predict what will happen next.
From what I’m reading and seeing, the EU is angry and doesn’t want the UK back. They told them to get out ASAP, not take two years. Kind of like a spurned lover. Go away.
Not good. Not good at all.
I keep thinking of a Hamilton quote this AM:
“You’re on your own. Awesome. Wow. Do you have a clue what happens now?”
World turned upside down, indeed.
I feel so bad for all of you in the UK right now. No matter what side of the vote you were on, there is a massive kick in the teeth coming. In the end, will it work out for the better? No one can know for sure but I do know that it is going to be an extremely rough ride for everyone before it is over. I commented up thread that this has cost me a year’s worth of work but it has cost the world years worth of work and effort in agreements and treaties. It is not only the EU that the UK has separated itself from, but from the rest of the world. All of the trade agreements that were tied up with the EU are going to be null and void and the UK will need to negotiate on their own. This is going to be extremely difficult as the EU has much more to offer and huge negotiating power that the UK will not be able to match on it’s own.
Whether you agree with the TTIP or not, it is coming and now the UK will be left out. The TTIP covers trade for most of the world. For good or evil it is on the table. It does remain to be seen if it passed through all of the governments of the countries involved, but I have a feeling that the big players are in.
Generations of people will be dealing with the fall out from this and it is going to get ugly. Not trying to joke, but Canada can always use more people if you need a place to go. One of my closest friends is from the UK. I have not spoken to him this morning yet but I can imagine the language in the office this morning. I suppose I should go call him and find out. Oh boy….
Don’t feel sorry for Cameron. He’s the one who started this referendum. He wanted to gain some short-term political points for himself. and now it shat on him. Unfortunately not only on him but the whole country. He will be remembered as the guy who created Small Britain. Scotland will Scexit the UK and a united Ireland might follow pace.
So who looked at the seal on that podium and thought they saw the Lannister lion and the Baratheon stag? I’m sure it’s the American in me, but it’s so strange to see the leader of the country speaking before a seal of a lion wearing a tiara, and a unicorn. Lengthen his hair and put him in a dress and it’s Game of Thrones.
In utter seriousness now – WTF? It’s always unnerving when our countries de-stabilize so I feel for those posters affected – which I fear will be all us. God help us now. With your Donald Trump in power and our Donald Trump seeking power …….. where will the rational people go?
The only positive from this the forgotten generation who are being drowned in debt, unable to escape and create a life of their own like their parents did will learn not to treat their own children with the same contempt.
I am heartbroken. I am lucky to have my long term partner still an EU member so we can still travel and work abroad. Millions have been deverstated though. A dark day. Truly scary.
Or they’ll just be smart and not bother to have any kids. I do feel like babyboomers hold A LOT of contemptment towards their children and young people in general. I mean many of them ended up with good jobs without a degree. How many of us can do that? They had jobs upon jobs readily available to them…we just don’t have that now. The next generation will have it even worse.
Wow. A guy shouting “Britain First” murdered a lawmaker in cold blood, and the country just shrugged that off and voted for the xenophobic, ignorant path anyway?
It must be terrifying to be a POC in Britain right now, the morning after the vote, seeing that racism and xenophobia actually won. Seeing that a white woman, who seemed to be universally respected, was murdered for coming out against Brexit and working for a unified future, and the country didn’t even care! Her death didn’t even make a dent on the national conscience!! POC today must feel like they can be murdered, at will, by right wingers, and their deaths would not matter to the country at all. It might even be cheered over.
I feel like Britain really needs to protect POC in the coming years.
In England it isn’t about the skin color. It is xenophobia more like.
@Hmm – sorry if I come across as rude but your post is so full of hysterical flawed.
And the reactions of you two confirms for me that POC really do need to be protected in the U.K. because of how flippant you are about genuine concerns.
The U.K. is xenophobic AND racist. You don’t build an empire off the backs of brown people and then magically get to declare race is not an issue.
Yes, they sure did build an empire off of Brown people. The UK still holds on to very expensive jewels that belong to India. They refuse to give them back !
yes and yes.
Hmm
While I wouldn’t want to minimise the worry of racism and Islamophobia in the UK – both are alive and well and as poisonous as ever – you need to understand that the issue of immigration in the UK operates on more than the axis of skin colour.
Anti-immigration sentiment in the UK equates to an objection to free movement of people (or, more accurately, free movement of cheaper labour) within the EU. What people are objecting to is no limits on people from poorer EU countries (usually white people) immigrating to Britain and driving down wages – whether or not you think this is what is actually driving down wages is what is likely to mark you out as a Brexiter or a Remainer.
In fact, many POC communities, particularly working class POC communities, came out strongly for Brexit. This is because free movement within the EU has meant more stringent controls on immigration from black and brown countries – many in the Indian, Pakistani and Caribbean heritage communities resent this immensely and therefore went for Leave.
Older POC communities in the U.S. have also turned their backs on their young people in order to cater to the establishment in recent years. What POCs do to ensure their survival should not be conflated with how a society treats them at large.
And I don’t get how anyone can say with a straight face that anti-immigration sentiments aren’t about race in the U.K. when your politicians actually used ads akin to Nazi propaganda — with Middle Eastern refugees, the brown hordes invading white Britain.
Wake up and face your imperialist demons already.
Really sad for the youth in the UK especially. I woke up in the middle of the night and ended up listening to the BBC which is my usual comfort listening when I can’t sleep needless to say I didn’t get any rest last night. The sound of shock in the commentators voices and the possible global ramifications are scary. I really, really hope this ends up ok for everyone in UK and EU.
I go to England every few years. I have so many pounds leftover from my last trip. Wish I had converted them back to dollars before this ! Damn it. The UK in general has a lot of issues. So much racism and separatism. It’s really disgusting. It’s a tiny country…does it really think it will do better on it’s own? It was already having so many issues…no jobs already. This is not good.
I do hope you are in the US
I’m in Canada. I have dual citizenship Canadian/British. I always loved the fact I could go work in France or Italy without a work permit. That dream is gone now.
Actually I meant so say I hope you aren’t in the US because I didn’t fancy a lecture on racism from an American.
@ spidey
Haha nope. Sorry didn’t mean to come off as “lecturing”. Just giving my opinion. Just as a side note, Canada has plenty of racism here too.
No worries. Canada can definitely teach the world a few things about racism. The only reason the majority of people don’t think about that is because we are the only country on the planet that apologizes for saying sorry too much. It out shadows a lot of the negative crap that happens here.
Eden75
I don’t appreciate the stereotyping on any level. Easy to say, though.
@me
thank you for stating that yes Canada has tons of racism.
As a mixed 1st generation Canadian, and I have had to and continue to at times face horrible intolerance, as have both of my parents ( Nigerian and German).
I sometimes feel that people romanticize Canada and think it’s this fair, kind, place.
It isn’t. It is dark and messy, we just tend to not make waves, so no one hears about it.
Oh well, this world on a whole needs a fix.. A big ol fix.
@hmmm
See Scotchy’s comment.
Mine was meant tongue in cheek. I am mixed race also, Metis, and see it from many sides.
My comment was exactly as Scotchy said. People see us as this polite nice country but it has a very dark side that gets ignored on the world stage. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing but it is the truth. And the whole world really does need a fix…..
No problem
The push on here to paint those who opted to leave as some lumpen mass of ignorant xenophopic bigotry is way more depressing than the news I – as a Remain – woke up to this morning.
I went to bed at 11pm last night and early predictions were remain. I was relieved. Waking up to this was an enormous shock. The only positive was my town Stockport (northwest England) voted remain. So at least I don’t live with lunatics. The woman who works in the canteen at my job said she voted leave because she fancied a change. That’s like me saying oh I’ll quit my job because I fancy a change and have no other job lined up to go to. My best friend, who is only 21, voted leave purely on the absolutely false statement that the (made up) £350 million per week going to the EU would now go to the NHS, which by the way if was actually true wouldn’t happen in a million years. And these are just two examples of why we should never have had a referendum in the first place. A decision that effects us so profoundly, left to people Who are misinformed or bored or protesting against the status quo. I went to work feeling disappointed but philosophical about the result, a sense of the world isn’t going to end because we aren’t in the EU. But going home now I honestly feel pretty depressed. A brexit come down. I hope NI and Scotland leave now, we might as well burn the whole thing down and see what happens.
“A decision that effects us so profoundly, left to people Who are misinformed or bored or protesting against the status quo.”
Well, we elect our Presidents in a similar way. No wonder we had Bush for 8 years, Reagan and may end up with that idiot Trump.
I’m glad we had a referendum. We’ve been demanding it since i was a tween and that was over 20yrs ago.
We don’t live in a dictatorship, we are supposed to live in a democracy and the results of a democratic vote won’t always please everyone, but at least we get to vote. The alternative is dictatorship.
And with a vote, people will vote for all sorts of reasons that i may not agree with, but that’s the risk you take.
Calling people who don’t agree with you lunatics as you do in your post isn’t the best start to get them to vote your way.
If they’ve changed their minds or realised that one vote *does* count and they better be informed before casting a vote, then it’s a good lesson learnt for voting and it’s highlighted why voting is important.
That said, 72% of the eligible voters actually turned out. Do you know how rare that it? We never get anywhere near that high a voter turnout in general elections!
One newspaper said that level of a turnout for ANY election hasn’t happened since 1992.
It shows that whether people were informed ir not about the issues, they were nonetheless determined to vote.
And that in itself is amazing.
I am about to come back home from my year abroad in England, but I wanted to do my PGCE and PhD in England and live there- after finishing my teaching degree in Germany.
But now, I might have to pay twice as much for that and I would end up with a teaching degree that might end up being worthless in Germany (unlike now) and I always wanted to have going back to Germany as a plan B.
So in a way, tht referendum might ruin my future.
Let’s be real the BREXIT VOTE was more a vote against immigration than a vote against the European Union.
Oh, maaaan, here is my ignorant Canadian opinion.
First of all, all I see is panic. The markets seem to be the powers that be, the gods that manipulate public opinion.
Second of all, if I, as a Canadian, were offered the choice to join in a union with the US I would be voting hell-to- the-no. I believe in sovereignty, and identity. There is always going to be a power imbalance in this sort of union. Moreover, Free Trade has done nothing for us little people that is significant or even obvious. On some high fancy level, the markets and money do the dance, and we, the little people have to swallow whatever the consequences.
So I say, YAY to the little people, no matter how ignorant we seem, for rising up and saying, “hell-to-the-no”. This is a challenge to governments to examine what the hell they’re doing. Dissatisfaction and alienation is rife. Governments are doing something wrong. Understand it and fix it and stop attempting to invalidate it.
I hope the UK sees this as a challenge to change things for the better. Because that’s what it is.
yeah, that’s ignorant. Go educate yourself and come back before you comment on something which is actually devastating millions of peoples actual lives. ‘Kay, thanx. From an upset and spinning Brit.
Devastate millions of people’s lives? Tell me about it when it happens. Over half the population certainly felt their lives were devastated enough. But I guess that counts for nothing because they’re all ignorant and stupid, right?
Yeah… it’s actually going to devastate millions of people’s actual lives…as in: job losses, welfare cuts, environmental protection, human rights protection, funding for scientific and medical research, trade subsidies, educational grants… so many other things… And how much do you imagine it will cost to arrange the transfer of the ”United” Kingdom out of the EU over the next couple of years? Billions. It is going to be an immense, painfully intricate and huuuuuuuuuugely costly process, make no mistake. Maybe if your first sentence contains the word ‘ignorant’, spend a while googling before submitting comment? A challenge to change things for the better?? Today I am just so very, very sad and angry for my country and this just makes me see red. I hope you can see why.
@hmmm
This Canadian agrees with the fact that your opinion is a wee bit ignorant.
However you are entitled to it. This makes me want to ask you so many questions about your feelings on Canada’s state of affairs.. perhaps another time on a another topic…
Thanks for reminding me why I love Canadians!
@hmmm
I actually didn’t say anything about those who voted Brexit, or speculate on their reasons for doing so. I used the word ignorant only about you because…well, you yourself confessed to being so and then proceed to waffle on with authority anyway and make a completely inappropriate and pointless hypothetical parallel with Canada being in a fictious AmeriCanada union.’ Sorry, WHAT now??
What I WAS commenting on was the real and devastating impact Brexit will have – this is what I am sad and angry about. I’m not shitting on the ‘little people’ here, it’s the little people who are most vulnerable right now as the £ has plunged to a level not seen since 1985 and we teeter on the brink of recession. Huge job losses are looming as large European companies discuss pulling out of the UK and many more stop trading with us – it’s not so much the fat cats that this is going to hurt, is it.
And yet the sterling was back to it’s pre-vote level by 4pm tea-time.
Nothing catastrophic is going to happen immediately.
Also, we are not going to Brexit despite this referendum. Despite all the posturing, no one is going to allow Britain to leave because it is in no one’s interest for that to happen.
Here is an opinion from a political blog to explain better than i ever could
http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/why-the-article-50-notification-is-important/
I was shocked by the outcome. I was convinced Brexit wasn’t going to happen, I thought majority wouldn’t be willing to risk it.
Now I am worried about the US and Trump. There are too many parallels.
Yes, there are!
Britishers, we’re getting some reports here that London is now making noises about independence so it can stay in the EU (which would allow the banking industry to survive). What, if anything, is happening with that?
What an awful mess?
I don’t see how a city can just break away & form it’s own country.
Well, I imagine it would be difficult but London is larger than Lichtenstein, Grenada, Malta, the Maldives, San Marino, Monaco, and the Vatican, all countries. But I just don’t see Britain letting that happen, especially as the seat of government is there.
There is something about London having a LOT of autonomy going back to William, Duke of Normandy. I just read about this on another site. London may actually be able to do this. Wow.
I don’t think most people have recovered from the shock yet, including me. The streets are so quiet. When I walked them one by one trying not to cry – I am not European but I lived in London close to two decades – even the people drinking in pubs seemed downbeat on what would be normally a roaring Friday night.
My mother is visiting and she doesn’t understand most of it, bless her. She asked me today, why no one celebrates on the street if this is (Vote Out) what British people want. I had to tell her too many of them didn’t know what they wanted until the result came out.
And as a foreigner living in Britain, like many of my European friends, this VOTE would affect our life too but we weren’t allowed to be a part of that decision.
I can’t even
Sigh.
Longtime reader but first time commenter.
Today has been such a gloomy day full of dread for what is yet to come. I am not British but I live and own a home and business here and it is hard to imagine what awaits.
I know the EU is far from perfect but at least it would have continued to allow us to thrive financially.
It is such a shock to realise just how big the societal divide really is and how uninformed and intolerant people really are. I don’t think anyone really expected for Brexit to happen, many of the people who voted for Leave included, as some of them are already expressing their regret over their choice. Sadly, there is no way back.
Scotland’s departure from the UK seems imminent as well, which just adds insult to injury.
There will be a very steep learning curve until the country gets back on its feet and even then with all of the local and global impact it will have had it just doesn’t seem like it will have all been worth it.
Hugs to everyone and it is so refreshing to see so many thoughtful and intelligent insights on this thread. This is why I keep coming back to Celebitchy.
I find it really interesting in reading comments that obviously everyone who voted for Brexit is “uninformed, old, selfish”. Like they don’t have a single brain cell between them, and are only thinking of themselves in their cushy environs. There have to be scapegoats and clearly they are stupid, old, selfish, oh and racist. There could NEVER be other reasons. Jesus.
Well, all 17m who voted out can’t have been old can they?
Yes, it’s always stupid, white, old racists on the wrong side of any issue that comes up here, including casting decisions for movies and magazine covers. Although usually someone makes the comment “I can’t wait til all those old white people die out” as well.
You can’t make this up: the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/?postshare=4831466780696037&tid=ss_fb
I know. I saw that earlier. What the heck?? Kind of like closing the barn door after the horse has left, eh? They sound like our uninformed Trump voters.
Perhaps I’m overly optimistic here, but I do wonder how many of those people actually had a more reasonable question (what is the EU going to do about Brexit result?) and were just lazy about typing it out fully. I do that with current events. Especially if I’m on my phone, since I can skim down half-a-dozen headlines quicker than I can tap out a specific question.
To test my theory, I just googled “what is the eu?” to see what results I’d get. The first is an explanation of what the EU is, but the second is an article on Article 50 and what happens now. More importantly, the next section is “in the news”, which is what I’d normally be looking for. Obviously at the moment, most of the news is now about Brits googling the phrase, but if you ignore those, the other results are all about what is going to happen.
Perhaps this answers a little bit about the reasons:
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153842562976939/
This is now not funny,,, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE
Oh, I love Yes Minister. It’s utterly amazing how relevant it continues to be be. I came across the show as an Australian, about 10 years after it was first aired, and yet it still made sense. That clip must be what, 20 years old? And, if anything, the satire is *more* biting than it was when it was first aired.
Moody’s has just lowered the long-term UK’s debt from stable to negative… because of a long period of uncertainty, UE maintains its debt in stable…
As I understand it, it will take two years to work process the exit, at which time another referendum will be taken. Two years is a long time, hope voters reconsider.
People weren’t looking at the big (read complicated) picture, because none of the elite bothered to explain it, both sides ran their campaign on fear and loathing. The average person was looking at the small every day things that the EU had imposed without any consultation, ridiculous inconsequential things that they dictated were necessary, such as straight cucumbers and bananas (yes there is actually a 12 page edict on banana shape/size/bunch size guidelines) banning high powered vacuum cleaners and hairdryers, grannies can’t bake cakes for fetes any more without an industrial kitchen, teddy bears eyes even have a three page judgement. The list goes on and on 100,000’s of thousands of pages meaningless tripe. If the EU had just stuck to the big picture there would have been no problem but when they start telling people what kind of vacuum cleaner they can buy it really is the last straw for most people and sadly that’s what the vote was based on.
BTW…Northern Ireland is in the UK , makes no difference to GOT.
UGH…. Do you have any idea why EU edict those rules??????
It’s to create an united free european market.
Those rules makes that your vacuum and your bananas are less expensive, but I get it’s too hard to understand.
This looks like some kind of Celebitchy record? Almost 600 comments? Has there ever been more? I’m kind of a little proud that we’re more riled up about political stuff than gossip!
Benedict & Sophie had a couple of threads with 900+ comments.
But this would rank in the top 10 I think.
@Lucrezia
I’m actually a fan of BC, so I sort of followed those threads, and I don’t remember any with 900+! And TH, another favorite, usually caps out at 300.
I think it reflects really well on Celebitchy that it has an international community of readers, that its readers get along really well with frank exchanges of views but very little actual conflict, and that the site acknowledges that in its coverage.
We should all probably run the UN or something!
Worth noting that it’s mostly women on this board, as well.
Agree with both of you ladies! That’s why I got hooked on this site – and I rarely do, Internet is usually quite a nasty place. I love that I can read so many informed and civil opinions here. It’s probably the ONLY place where I read REASONABLE opinions on guns (as in “pro-gun”)!
I am very impressed with this site as well, it provides me with a productive escape from studying, where i get to learn from lawyers, historians and professionals. I am so glad to be here.
As dearly beloved chutney says, ” keep the ideas coming”
This is a complicated issue.
I want to see an independent Scotland and a united Ireland. Brexit paves the way for those things. I hate the way Scotland and Ireland have been subjugated by England.
However, I also know how dearly this is going to cost a lot of industries, not just the film/tv industry but also science and economics. The funding the EU provided for British research (It was more than double every pound put in) will be withdrawn and that is a huge blow for science. As a Commonwealth country, we are always effected by what happens in Britain.
I honestly can’t say how I would have voted had I been in Britain.
Bit a shock to see this when I logged in at nightshift. I doubt this will be Britain’s downfall by any means, but…it’ll certainly take time to iron everything out politically and economically, and a lot of people might be hurting in the meanwhile. Cameron exiting right after this goes through is the definition of rat bastard politician moves. At least own your political maneuvering.
Brexit is basically going to screw over the very folks who voted it. And I would imagine at this stage that France and Germany are going to fight tooth and nail to keep the EU going. Especially France (and probably mostly out of spite), and then they can sit around and watch while GB ceases to exist as it does now because The Scots want independence and the Irish (Northern) voted to remain and are pissed as well. How ironic.
@Kitty and others: actually, the Brexit DOES make a huge difference for the British monarchy, the Queen and Prince Charles being really wealthy land owners… Let’s all remember that the Queen gets approximatively £500,000subsidies a year from the EU. The Prince of Wales, more than £100,000 a year.
These subsidies will probably be cancelled now.
So… yeah. IN is IN, OUT is OUT. Maybe the British taxpayers will have to contribute a little more? I have no idea…
I think the reaction is a bit over the top and melodramatic. But then the media always are.
It’s as if Britain will pack up and disappear from the face of the planet suddenly.
Firstly the exit process will last two years minimum, and then it’ll probably end in a favorable deal like with Switzerland, Norway or Iceland. So no need to predict the apocalypse just yet.
I’m more worried about Trump becoming the US president than about this.
As someone who’s lived in Europe but outside of the EU their entire life, I gotta say don’t worry, there is life outside the EU and it’s just fine.
It’s easy to say this but this decision will destabilize the economy everywhere in Europe.
So deeply disappointed in Britain. Sure the EU is far from perfect but it is the sum of the efforts of all its members. It is an ever evolving pitch drop of a mechanism and because of its size requires a lot of patience and effort. Flouncing off instead of putting the hard work in will not serve us well.
I for one thank the EU for all the benefits, big and small, it has afforded me throughout my 41 years. I wish I had known better how to defend you.
I think some things are unfair for european people for example , here in Spain there are 400.000 english expat 80% are older people who use our NHS however in Uk there are 250000 spaniards most of them 80% young people with degrees and studies working paying taxes and studing in uk , we are one of the collective who demands less benefit in uk , so I think if Uk wants brexit they have to accept all the consequences , You can’t use the exit card when you want , so you have to assume your choise. You want to control your immigration , all right, you want people have visas to work there and to know english so i think the rest of europe we can demmand you the same, i want english older people who live in spain learn spanish, be integrated , pay taxes as a foreign and be integrated in the spanish community instead to live in their Communes .They are twice than the Spanish people living in their country, i don’t want to see my compatriots are treated with fewer rights in UK and instead English people living here with privileges and live a good retired , I do not think is fair.If Uk wants out of the European Union they will have to accept all the consequences specially if the want to treat european people in unfair way.
i love europe and european union but i think the last 5 years the brussels goverment made deccisions without ask other countries, you just have to see the horrible immigration policies of Merkel, she commited to grant asylum to millions of refugees without the opinion of the other countries. they have been wrong with some economic measures and There is a large bureaucracy that is useless
Anyway i just say that if uk wants to leave europe they have to accept it with all consequences and do it quickly
UK wants to get treated specially. They want all the benefits and none of the bothering with the refugee crises. Merkel didn’t give a toss about the opinions of Germans about the crisis. The part where i live, there is a little resentment in people towards refugees. Alright, we cant let them die but to be a little practical, what about the resources say their education, the infrastructure, jobs and what not.
First, it was sadness that Brits choose to exit but now it is annoyance. If we can share our wealth with them why cant they share to lessen the growing immigrant load with us.
In Germany, there are loads of British citizens who enjoy the fanciest jobs here. My fathers colleague is Scottish(kindest person ever!) I really hope Scotland gets independent, they don’t deserve this.
EU has some major flaws but overall they keep us stable, peaceful and truly united in diversity. Lets hope Brexit doesn’t cost us EU breakdown.
All of you in the UK, the only thing i can say about this is that im sorry our national embarrassment had to swoop in and put his ignorant two cents in.
I don’t feel sorry for Cameron at ALL. He precipitated this mess for a short-sighted political gamble just to gain re-election and quiet the right wing of his party, and now it’s blown up in everyone’s faces. I feel terrible for all of my British expat friends here in France who may now have to leave.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster
Thank you. I totally agree with it.
I live in the American south and Brexit is being hailed as a near miracle by my evangelical acquaintances down here. Apparently the anti-christ will rise if there is a “one world government” and voting “leave” helped thwart satan. I’m sure that’s what everyone in the UK was worried about when voting. /s
From what I’m reading, I suspect that Cameron forgot that this was a non-binding referendum, and it would take an Act of Parliament to invoke Article 50. And with the number of people signing the petition for debate, Brexit might not happen after all.
That’s not going to help all the people whose savings have already been damaged by the plunge of the pound and the associated economic effects, but it might wind up with a more educated electorate (judging by the number of people doing searches on the subject). I understand Yorkshire has joined Cornwall in demanding that the UK make them whole for the lost EU subsidies.
Good riddance to him then.