Kate Upton has some thoughts about football players sitting out the anthem

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Football player Colin Kaepernick’s actions continue to reverberate throughout the NFL. Kaepernick decided, in the preseason, that he would stop standing for the National Anthem. For several games, Kaepernick simply sat on the sidelines, but he recently decided to take a knee during the anthem. While Kaepernick was widely blasted at first, many veterans came to his defense, as did many athletes and allies. It’s become a thing now, and at last night’s Miami Dolphins game, Dolphins Kenny Stills, Michael Thomas, Arian Foster and Jelani Jenkins all “took a knee” during the anthem as well.

Well, Kate Upton has some thoughts. Upton is from Florida, and I guess she’s a big Dolphins supporter/fan. I guess she’s also been living under a rock for the past three weeks, because it suddenly occurred to her last night that she has an opinion about this breaking news of “athletes taking a knee.” At first, she tweeted this:

I’m disappointed in you, Kate Upton. And I’m not alone – there were people blowing up her Twitter feed, telling her to “keep her Becky nose out” of it, and saying that she had no right to tell African-Americans what they can and cannot protest. So Kate Upton saw all of those tweets and decided to tweet this:

So now everyone’s arguing about free speech and Beckys and white privilege and patriotism. And it happened on 9/11 too! I think Kate Upton has every right to her thoughts about the anthem, football and what people “should” do, just as Colin Kaepernick has every right to protest, just as everyone has the right to call Kate Upton a clueless Becky. Personally, I don’t think this is something that has been building in Kate Upton for weeks and she only just now spoke up. I really do think she only just realized that some of the players from HER favorite team were taking a knee, and this was her #HotTake. Not that I’m excusing her, I just don’t believe she thought very hard about it, nor is she educated about her privilege or how to be an ally to causes that she doesn’t personally deal with. Maybe this will be a learning experience for her.

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176 Responses to “Kate Upton has some thoughts about football players sitting out the anthem”

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  1. Jessie says:

    “Kate Upton has THOUGHTS!!!!”

    There. Fixed it for you.

    • Sammy says:

      I still don’t understand how his actions are offensive to Veterans and the military please someone explain. The job of black people isn’t to make racists comfortable with their peaceful protest. You either engage and discuss the issues he’s trying to bring to light or you ignore him. But you have no right to tell him whether he can or can’t protest

      • Snowflake says:

        This

      • OhDear says:

        People forget that veterans served so that people could make peaceful protests.

      • greenmonster says:

        Thank you, Sammy. I never understand what one thing has to do with the other. I’m from Germany so this is a book with seven seals to me. I have the feeling that whatever people do (or don’t) will be turned into something disrespectful to Veterans.

        I never stand up when our national anthem is played. I don’t sing along, I’ll keep talking or eating. I don’t believe in patriotism.

        And I roll my eyes very hard at blonde, white, priviledged people who say “you should be proud of your country”. Did it occur to Ms. Upton, that things like institutionalized racism are very real. That POC make different experiences, no one ever can or should be proud of?

      • crtb says:

        It amazes me how we praise Dr. MLK for peacing protest. Made a national holiday celebrating his birth. Every major city inthe USA has a street named after him. His actions are taught in every school. But when other POC (not just African Smericans) potest in a peaceful demonstration (BLM, The Native Americans on the pipeline) everyong takes personal offence. How is what this man is doing any different than Rosa Parks? I find that very disengenous.

      • I think at this point it’s pretty clear it’s not about respecting the military, it’s about blacks not smiling and going along to get along and making others ‘uncomfortable’.

        Especially those who paid money to watch a football game and he indulged? Well they especially shouldn’t have to strain any brain cells thinking about complex issues like police brutality and how their position in society is paid through the suffering of others.

    • Nicole says:

      Damn you beat me because that was my exact thoughts.

      Dear Kate have all the seats. Until you experience a FRACTION of what any minority experiences in this country you don’t get to tell us how and when to protest. People found MLK disruptive too once upon a time yet everyone forgets that part. Or the part of Ali and Robinson not standing for the anthem either.

      As this photo I saw on fb yesterday read “if you want to live in a country where everyone must stand for the anthem how about you leave and go to North Korea”

      • Jessie says:

        Look, she’s entitled to her own opinion, just as we are entitled to think that she’s a privileged airhead. #freespeech

      • Flowerchild says:

        @Jessie

        Freedom of Speech definition:

        “The right to speak without censorship or restraint by the government. ”

        I don’t see the government playing a role in censoring Kate comment here.

      • K says:

        @jessie yes she is, everyone has the right to say whatever they want and she has. No one stopped her. We have free speech in America what we don’t have in America is consequence free speech.

        Upton said something that many find offensive, ignorant and disrespectful on a good day and they have the right to call her out on it. She chose to speak and put herself in this issue now she has to deal with the consequences!

        I hate when people say offensive or stupid things and are called out for it and cry free speech- that was never taken away you just have to deal with the consequences.

        And if anyone wants an example of the classy, PATRIOTIC, and graceful way to excercise free speech and accept the consequences take a look at Mr. Kaepernick, because he has exemplified what it means to truly excercise our first admendment right. He has taken the back lash and the praise and continued standing up for his beliefs regardless.

      • anon says:

        Kaepernick and the BLM do not represent all minorities. It’s Black Lives matter. I’m Asian and we face our own challenges, including from other minorities. I support the right of Kaepernick and Kate Upton to protest, as equally. However, I wish people would stop protesting in the name of all minorities-because they sure as hell don’t represent me.

    • MorningCoffee says:

      I’m still trying to figure out when the Anthem became about honoring the military. That’s not what it is about. The Anthem is not a military hymn. They have their hymns. It is the National Anthem. Not just for the military. There is no requirement to stand, hand over heart. There is not required pledge. All this faux patriotism and misguided efforts to paint people as anti-military just boggles my mind.

  2. Greenieweenie says:

    Yeah no. America is a good place for YOU, Kate Upton. But there are many people for whom America is not a great place. And what kind of jerk are you for telling those people it’s their duty to be proud of the country that exploits and mistreats them? That’s the language of abusers.

  3. Tara says:

    I really hate this “Becky” meme. I guess this is from the Beyonce song? I have no issue with these protests, I strongly believe black people do not get treated the same way white people do by the police, I hate Trump and agree with Hillary’s “Basket of deplorables”, if he does incite a race war, even though I’m white I won’t be on that side, and yet…if someone calls me Becky or “a Becky”…we’re gonna have a problem.

    • Nicole says:

      Becky has been around for ages in the black community. It’s just mainstream now

    • Dolkite says:

      What’s worse is that “Becky” is seen as just-desserts for “years of oppression and racism.” If a black woman acted up and started ranting and was told to quit being “such a Shaniqua” or dismissed her as “typical Laqueesha type with her five illegit kids and her food stamps,” there’d be an uproar.

      I admit, i can’t help but find it amusing that some people really DO think ALL white people are rich, entitled, successful, and aloof.

      • Tara says:

        No I don’t find the term racist…I don’t believe white people suffer as victims of racism ever. Maybe bigotry would be a better word, if that is where you are coming from, but it’s not where I’m coming from. I’m not complaining about it that way. And it is in NO way comparable to “such a Shaniqua” or any comments about food stamps in my view.

        It just pushes a button in me. So does “basic b*tch”. I think it feels sexist to me. It definitely would get my back up if someone said it to my face. Maybe it shouldn’t, but it would.

      • V4Real says:

        You know I made a similar comment weeks back about calling White women Becky’s . Would Black women take offense to being called Shanaynays with the bad weaves , of course they would.

        Then I realized there are some Beckys as well as Shanaynays in the world, so I let it go.

        As for Kate she needs to take several seats. I’m glad her career isn’t as hot as it used to be.

        I kneel with Kaepernick.

      • LOLADOESTHEHULA says:

        @Dolkite, ‘Becky with the good hair’ is the same thing as ‘Shaniqua with the food stamps’ in the same way that getting a paper cut is the same thing as getting your leg amputated. You can express your distaste for the word Becky without being ridiculous.

      • pk says:

        I agree, the Becky stuff is offensive.

      • Kitten says:

        Hmmmmm. Yeah the “becky” stuff doesn’t sit well with me either. I don’t find it “offensive” so much as I just find it really insulting, but I guess that’s the point?
        I don’t know…it’s a rude insult to me like any other rude insult, but it’s a bit different in that it’s specific to white women which….eh, not crazy about that.

    • Sammy says:

      As a Black woman I hate that term too. it’s as problematic as calling black women “Shaniqwa”. You can say so much about Kate Upton without calling her a Becky

      • Tara says:

        Sammy, I don’t feel it’s as bad as “Shaniqwa” because of obvious reasons. I’m not racially offended. I’m offended as a woman because it’s like saying all white women are the same, we’re cookie-cutter. Same thing with Shaniqwa, I get the racism there, but I feel there’s a double whammy. That carries lots of sexist stereotypes with it too.

      • caitlinK says:

        Exactly, you don’t need to call Upton a “Becky” when you are already criticizing/ condemning her. As a white woman and, especially, as a concerned human being, I find that word insulting and–more importantly–racially divisive. Racial slurs are never humane or productive, and have NEVER brought any of the races closer together.

    • Colette says:

      Becky is from Sir Mix A Lot’s 1992 song Baby Got Back.In the song and video a female voice says,”Oh My God,Becky look at her butt”.

      • FingerBinger says:

        Where did Sir Mix a lot get from? It was around before 1992.

      • Colette says:

        Well it sure as Hell isn’t from the Beyonce song as was mentioned earlier.Where is the term from because I had never heard it used to refer to white girls before that song.So please enlighten me to the origin of the term.

    • I am always really impressed by how people don’t know the origin of a phrase, don’t know the culture or context behind it, don’t know how it’s used or what it refers to but as soon as it enters the mainstream and they’re told ‘oh it’s this’ suddenly they’re offended with so many reasons why.

      Becky with the good hair is not and never will be equivalent with to Shaniqua with the food stamps because you don’t even know what Becky with the good hair means!

      Sheesh. This and basic and fuck boy are things taken from our culture, with meaning changed to adapt to some easy generality that all white people can grasp and then made into a big deal completely ignoring and erasing the actual way we use it.

      Becky isn’t about race it’s about ignorance, Privelage, comfort, detachment from black culture and isolation in a white bubble where the world is a very specific way and you can’t imagine it being different.

      Ironically you all complaining about it just proved its point, because Kate Upton IS a perfect Becky and it doesn’t have a thing to do with her skin tone.

      • Amber says:

        Becky is not equal to Shaniqua or anything like that, for sure. But I think the issue with Becky is that is meant to be derogatory. Yes it’s calling out white women who are ignorant their privilege, but it’s not a good way to do that. Using terms like that are inappropriate.

      • Kitten says:

        I get that but I don’t see it used that way anymore.
        I mean, I’ve seen the term leveled at white women who have done nothing to show that they are isolated in a bubble of white privilege. In fact, at this point it’s casually used to refer to pretty much every white woman, as if we’re some homogenous lot of boring, bland, unthinking she-bots.

        I think like a lot of slang, once it gets bumped to the forefront of our collective consciousness and becomes a term used by the masses, the original intention gets diluted. I’m not butthurt about it but if I’m being honest, I wouldn’t be happy if someone called me a “Becky”.
        *shrugs*

      • Amber says:

        You said it better than I did Kitten. It’s too generalized now.

      • “Yes it’s calling out white women who are ignorant their privilege, but it’s not a good way to do that. Using terms like that are inappropriate.”

        Except it’s not calling out white women specifically or exclusively, the very song you all are quoting was referring to a multiracial woman as Becky, yet again – the shorthand became ‘it’s all white women’ ignoring the actual meaning and use.

        In terms of publicity you are going to hear Becky referred to regarding white women more typically than other races because it refers to an understanding of the world and the treatment of others. Stacey Dash is one of the few out and proud Becky’s that aren’t white who are in the public sphere. Now in private individual experiences there are plenty of Becky’s of all skin tones, the biggest one I ever met was an African.

      • Sixer says:

        Ok. Someone please tell this haggard old Britisher what a fuck boy is!

      • JESS82 says:

        my understanding is that becky = basic white girl. is this really so offensive and upsetting to us? im starting to think those most offended by the term may be beckys themselves…

      • Lynnie says:

        @Sixer It’s a guy that plays/strings along women (usually a bunch at once) by pretending he’s deep and romantic, but really he’s in it for the sex. Has a very basic and superficial style and they’re typically not the most progressive/status quo individuals, so luckily it’s easy to spot and stay away from one.

      • Sixer says:

        Lynnie – I thank you!

      • Tara says:

        Well Jess you can “start to” think that all you want. To me, it’s an insult. I find basic bitch to be an insult as well. I like pumpkin spice lattes. That tells you absolutely nothing about me. You may think it does, but that’s about you not about me. For me, I listen when people tell me they find something offensive or insulting. That’s how I learn. I don’t explain to them why they shouldn’t be insulted or offended.

        It’s sexist. And I’ll tell you a perfect example of the sexism in the whole “becky” thing. Rob Lowe said something very similar on twitter yesterday and it didn’t get the play this did. Why is that? Does it just feel better to get that Becky?

      • QueenB says:

        #notallwhitewomen

    • ggggggg says:

      So, “becky” is also a term for *blow job*. By (dual)definition, the fluidity of the word—*white girl* and/or *blow-job*—is a reference to white womens’ presumed ultra-willingness to give head (as compared to black womens’ presumed unwillingness to do the same).

      Kate Upton is a fascist. But I don’t want us to lose sight of the very clear sexist origins of the term “becky.” It is, like so much language, a tidy way to dismiss us, to reduce us, to render us nameless. Bey was artfully capturing her own anger/fear/disgust in song, but in our discourse, I think it lowers the tone.

  4. HH says:

    Do people know that plenty of minorities fought when they didn’t have full rights? Blacks and other POC, LGBT, Native Americans, women as well. Also, I guess everyone is conveniently ignoring the veterans that supported the protest. There were plenty of them.

    • Naya says:

      Apparently not. Only white straight men have ever ever ever died for their country. And none of those white men ever ever ever cared about seeing their country grow into a better version of itself.

    • Nah, you’re always an other even when laying down your life for your country. Your service does not pay the debt of respect owed for future generations, they still have to worship and adukts unquestioningly or be told to ‘we’ll get out of this country!’

  5. Lynnie says:

    “Protest & speak ur mind whenever u want but during the 120 secs you should support the people who protect our freedom.”

    Someone doesn’t know the definition of whenever lmao. Also singing off key to a song for 120 seconds does absolutely nothing for veterans. Comprehensive medical care, a bigger government/public support system, not cutting the VA budget, and maybe a prudent analysis of when we should send off soldiers to war instead of the hawkish viewpoint we have now, does.

    • Esmom says:

      Very well said, Lynnie.

    • Patricia says:

      Love this comment.
      People are overly focused on the emotional aspect of pledging allegiance, yet what does that pledge embody? Does it embody caring for our veterans and upholding the liberties they fought for? No, apparently it’s just all about standing with your hand over your heart, and then going about your day free from all critical thinking. Ugh.

    • littlemissnaughty says:

      Someone also doesn’t understand the concept of a protest. My guess would be because she’s never felt the urgent need to protest something. Why? Uh, as an attractive white women … let me just stop there.

      A protest makes no sense if you do it in the “appropriate” setting when nobody is bothered by it. You do it because you want to bother people, you want them to pay attention. That won’t happen if you book a conference room at a hotel, serve some snacks and close the door. Good god. Some people are morons.

    • Naya says:

      Thanks for point out how she qualifies that “whenever you want”. You are free, when I allow you to be free.

    • Kitten says:

      Agree completely.

    • Lynnie says:

      Thanks for all the replies and compliments guys 😊

    • K says:

      Love this! 20 veterans a day kill themselves they need, help services and support not us standing to sing at a sporting event!

  6. Erinn says:

    I just don’t get why everyone has to control everyone.

    If someone is actively being disruptive, and causing a scene – sure, I guess you can say that it’s disrespectful. But if it’s a case of people quietly protesting by not participating – WHO CARES.

    They’re not running around saying “screw you troops, screw you America!” while setting off fireworks and streaking across a stadium during an anthem.

    • Snowflake says:

      Exactly erinn. I’m american, served in the military. Its not that hes being disrespectful, its that hes bringing up issues people dont want to talk about

  7. Crox says:

    Any thoughts on model citizen Chris Brown sitting down during the anthem for 9/11 victims ceremony? Either way, this is becoming a popular way of protest and is slowly loosing its power.

    • Why? Because you don’t like who sits and why they do it? That’s not losing it’s power, that’s just annoying you.

      Why would we judge the actions of a protest by a single gentleman who has not tried to do anything in relation to the topic at hand? Why did you have to go to an outside example to contribute to this topic?

      • Crox says:

        I have noticed, that while Colin Kaepernick made international news big time with his protest, the last few incidents were much less covered. That’s why I said it’s loosing its power. Like any unconventional behaviour, it’s big news when it first appears, but then people get used to it.

        I mentioned Brown because he was the one that made news here again (him, not the athletes and the same charity game kneeling) and instead of concern for black lives it was reported on his past sins. So no, it’s never good for the general public to be bombarded with bad instead of good examples for a cause. This obviously includes me.

  8. lilacflowers says:

    Patriots players Devin McCourty and Martellius Bennett raised their fists after the anthem. Here is what Devin had to say about it. http://nesn.com/2016/09/patriots-devin-mccourty-explains-why-he-raised-fist-after-national-anthem/

    Devin has a foundation to raise awareness of and funds to fight sickle cell, he is extremely active in charitable work in New England, and he is a great football player. Devin has my support. Kate Upton does not.

  9. Emily says:

    How did I know, upon glancing at the headline, that they wouldn’t be good/interesting thoughts? I hate this whole “they can protest at any other time” idea. Oh REALLY? Maybe while they brush their teeth? Or before they go to bed? In the gym? What other time would it have an impact? What that really means is: stop doing it.

    A counterpoint is that none of the players say out yesterday, though many took a knee or raised fists, or linked arms (I didn’t hear of any sitting out, correct me if I’m wrong). I think that was decided probably because it was 9/11.

    • doofus says:

      excellent post.

      all of the “well, I appreciate his intentions but I don’t like how he went about his protest…” crap needs to stop.

      no one liked how Rosa Parks went about her protest, and the white folk didn’t like it when black people started sitting at their lunch counters in protest…NO ONE has EVER “liked” the way people went about protesting. and they can suck it…this is how a movement starts.

    • Dara says:

      I was watching this game, and I found nothing disrespectful about the actions of the Miami players. What I did find extremely distasteful was how the broadcast crew, especially the sideline reporter, went out of their way to highlight who the kneeling players were and name them one by one – more than once. I think they even showed a replay of the ‘incident’. It felt very much like the players were being ‘exposed’ for their actions. I swear they were just one step shy of being placed on some sort of official enemies list. I half-expected to see their official team photographs made into a mug-shot type of graphic that called them the “Maimi Four” or similar crap like that. To me, that was far more offensive (and frightening) than anything the players themselves did.

      • doofus says:

        Dara, I follow Shaun King on Facebook, and he’s been posting every instance of protest he can find.

        this past weekend, a kid on some high school team didn’t stand, and people ON HIS OWN TEAM were calling him the N word and calling for him to be lynched. HIGH SCHOOL. HIS OWN TEAMMATES. 2016.

        it’s f-ing scary these days.

      • Justjj says:

        WTF????

  10. Pedro45 says:

    Ugh. What is it that people don’t get about this? Songs and flags are just symbols of our freedoms, which include free speech and the right to non-violent protest, they don’t mean anything in and of themselves.

    • Kristin says:

      I know, it drives me f-ing crazy! These people crying about how disrespectful this is completely miss the point that in order for this country to truly call itself free then the symbol cannot just be a flag, but also a citizen’s right to protest that flag in opposition. Without that, the flag or anthem simply become empty, meaningless gestures and symbols with no real weight behind them.

  11. adastraperaspera says:

    I for one am sick to death of the rabid, thoughtless flag waving that brought us the patriot act, ramped up the militarization of US society and has killed untold innocent civilians in Iraq and Afganistan. Not to mention how it refreshed xenophobia, intensified hatred of our President and fomented racist attacks on people of color in this country. Sorry if that hurts Kate’s feelings.

  12. Jess1632 says:

    Her thoughts and opinion on this topic don’t interest me. She also sounds really preachy here, like, let it go not all Americans have to agree on how to be and act American in a certain way

  13. Moon says:

    You can show respect for those on uniform who died on 9/11 in other ways. You can be a proud American in many ways. And anyway, who are you Miss White Privilege to demand that someone be proud to be ‘American’ when that same country has historically and socially repressed African Americans, when you refuse to even let African Americans call themselves Americans, when you define ‘americana’ by white blonde blue eyes?

  14. lilacflowers says:

    Maybe Kate should focus on Justin’s loss yesterday when his team really needed a win to keep its playoff hopes alive instead of trying to stifle the constitutional rights of football players?

  15. oya says:

    FYI, Rob Lowe also had thoughts. He thinks the NFL shouldn’t allow peaceful protest. Because football, a piece of cloth and the racist song celebrating it express our freedoms more than responsible exercise of free speech. ugh

    • Jessie says:

      What is this, Communist Russia? Rob Lowe needs to sit his privileged, old, statutory rapey ass down.

    • Tara says:

      You’re right, I forgot about that. Someone in TL retweeted that Rob Lowe tweet. He should get just as much flack.

  16. Kate says:

    What does the anthem have to do with veterans? Is there some real connection there or are people just dragging veterans into it to make it seem like they have an actual argument?

    In my country the two are completely unrelated and trying to tie them together would be an insane stretch.

    • lilacflowers says:

      The anthem is about a the Battle of Baltimore which occurred during the War of 1812 so it actually does apply to some veterans, those who fought in that specific battle to defend Fort McHenry outside Baltimore in 1812 but not to veterans in general. There have been periodic movements to try to change the anthem to something less about war and more easily sung but so far, this is what we have.

      • Sixer says:

        We have to sing a hymn (to what is, for the majority of the country, an imaginary being) hoping one particular old lady lives for a long time and sod all the other old ladies. And the tune isn’t even rousing.

        So y’know. It could be worse for you guys. Pity us instead!

        I’m like Greenmonster above. I don’t believe in patriotism. Find it to be a rubbish concept. Happy to love my country, for all its virtues and faults, in the same way I love my family. But it stops right there.

        For me, patriotism is the opposite of freedom. It shuts freedom down. As this issue is demonstrating rather vividly.

      • Sammy says:

        The anthem also had a third verse that proudly supported slavery. Whatever it was before isn’t what it is now. It’s the national anthem therefore representative of all the people of the United States, including the ones being oppressed today

      • Josefina says:

        @Sixer

        I agree on everything. I actually consider patriotism a negative trait.

        I just find it weird when people take so much pride in things they didnt choose.

      • doofus says:

        “It’s the national anthem therefore representative of all the people of the United States, including the ones being oppressed today”

        but not everyone feels that way. and it’s not up to you to determine how someone else gets to feel about it.

      • Nic919 says:

        Yes, the war of 1812, where the US wanted to annex Canada and ended up with a burnt White House #neverforget

      • Sixer says:

        Sammy – we have one of those embarrassing, pretend-it-isn’t-there stanzas in our national anthem too. Goes on about hammering the Scots. Then we expect the Scots to sing it (not the actual verse, but the song). It really is not surprising that not everyone particularly wants to see a national anthem as representing their identity. Especially if it has the history of either yours or ours.

        And in any case, why is any citizen of any country obliged to feel that that country is central to their identity? Why can’t they deem other things as more significant to them? I in no way feel that the British national anthem or flag particularly represents me. I don’t mind if other people feel it represents them. And I don’t feel it UNrepresents me either. I’m just indifferent to it.

      • ohdear says:

        @Nic919 except the white house was pink at the time ; )

      • SilverUnicorn says:

        “I in no way feel that the British national anthem or flag particularly represents me.” Yes, same with my original one.
        And I agree patriotism is not a positive value, it is right down the road to nationalism, which we all know where it leads…

      • Lucrezia says:

        I think you’re being a bit harsh on patriotism.

        The problem is excessive patriotism, where the attachment is blind and unquestioning. The proper term for that is chauvinism (or jingoism if you’re British and/or love Terry Pratchett).

        Patriotism itself just means having an emotional attachment to your country. What Sixer said, loving your country like you love your family – I’d call that patriotism. And it’s normal and healthy. It’s that kind of attachment that gives you social cohesion, community spirit. (And stops people going nuts from isolation.) It doesn’t have to be the main part of your identity, but if you’re missing it, you’re missing out on a big social connection. In a multi-cultural country, it takes on an even more important role, since it gives you an instant bond to people you might not otherwise have much connection with (due to different culture, different interests, different faith etc).

        I guess we could do away with country-specific patriotism and replace it with other geographical attachments (you might identify as part of your local town and part of Europe, and not care so much about your actual European country), but that’s still patriotism, just with the borders redrawn. In a perfect (Star Trek) world, we’d all identify as humans and bond that way AND we’d be able to easily move (teleport!) to wherever we wanted so we could choose to live among people who share all the same values that we do. But we’re nowhere near that yet, so at the moment I think patriotic bonds still have an important role in maintaining social cohesiveness and easing societal tension.

        TL;DR: I’ll co-sign if we can change it to from “patriotism is bad” to “chauvinism is bad”.

      • Sixer says:

        Lucrezia – I could concur… almost but not quite. Because it seems to me that there’s an unspoken element to patriotism, which is almost supremacism-lite. It always, always, always, comes with some sense that you’re patriotic because your country is somehow better than other countries. That’s what I don’t like about it and that’s why I avoid the word like the plague. I’m not saying it’s everyone, or even intentional half the time, but it’s still always that horrid little undercurrent.

        Even so, take on board what you said.

      • Lucrezia says:

        I know what you mean. And I know it can be bad, but it can also be good. Think of footy teams: obviously MY team is the best (even when they’re losing). Bad when it leads to fights between opposing groups of fans, but good when it leads to support of local kids teams, or building rapport with that annoying next-door-neighbour or just generally getting people interested in sport.

        I guess the difference is that I’m taking an within-group approach vs a between-groups approach. Patriotism is bonding within a group. It’s obviously divisive against outside groups. If we could get rid of the groups we could get rid of patriotism (see: perfect Star Trek world.) But getting rid of patriotism while keeping the groups seems like throwing the baby out and keeping the bathwater.

        P.S. I just realised that “football” was a really dumb example, since you’d read it as soccer and soccer has riots. There’s a lot less confrontation between Aussie Rules fans. Can we pretend I said cricket? That’s a much more gentlemanly game.

      • Sixer says:

        Now I can’t stop laughing! We try to not mention football/soccer and its connection with the nationalistic form of patriotism.

        I do get it. But not quite enough to apply the word patriotism to it!

  17. grabbyhands says:

    Hey Kate-see if you can find any remaining black or Japanese WWII vets and talk to them about what they went through. Like for example-black soldiers still being segregated and and treated as second citizens in their own barracks while Nazi prisoners had in many cases, access to things they themselves could not have. Or Japanese soldiers knowing that their families were being shipped off to camps in the US because they “couldn’t be trusted”.

    Ask how many f**king Americans supported THEM while they protected our freedoms. And then take a long, hard look at race relations in this country we’re supposed to be so proud of right now, and how not much has changed, and why so many people support and want to vote in a fascist like Trump and then maybe re-think your Twitter rant. If you’re capable of that type of introspection. Otheriwise f**k off. And take Rob Lowe (who has also been spouting off about “patriotism”) with you.

  18. Dani says:

    Why is it okay for Kaepernick to voice his opinion but not for Kate? It’s an OPINION, there is no right or wrong. People are entitled to feel any which way they want. I’m so sick of people trying to police others and trying to force everyone to be politically correct, but to their terms only. Good on Kaeprnick for standing up for what he believes in, and good for Kate for standing up for what she believe in. Luckily, we are all allowed that right in America.

    • OhDear says:

      I don’t think that people are saying that she has no right to voice her opinion. Instead, people are saying that she has a bad one.

      • Trixie says:

        They told her to “keep her Becky nose out”. To me that implies they don’t want her to voice her opinion, not that her opinion is bad.

    • oya says:

      It’s fine for people to express opinions. Kate’s opinion is that players’ having opinions is somehow un-American and other people have the right to drag her for thoughtless, stupid patriotism (which, as someone above said, is part of what got the US into several messes). CK actually thought about what that ritual meant and decided to start a conversation about that and the meaning of Freedom & liberty in the US.

      as far as I can tell, no one here has suggested that she be fired, lose endorsements, etc.

    • littlemissnaughty says:

      These players speak their minds, so to speak. She speaks her mind, also no problem. But she’s telling people what to do as well and she demands respect for the anthem. Well guess what, these people protesting demand respect for themselves.

      I’m always baffled by these “But she’s just expressing her opinion.” statements. Yeah, so? So are we.

    • Linda says:

      Whatever happened to peoples right to peacefully express their opinion. It is a personal opinion. If you don’t like it fine but it is not necessary to call people names for their opinion.

    • Dani says:

      I agree with every single one of you, but, it’s an opinion. It can’t necessarily be wrong or right. It’s bad for YOU (and I agree, I don’t think she gets the magnitude of things) but still, she’s not the only one to have this opinion. We shouldn’t shame her for it.

      • An opinion is based on information which can either be correct or uninformed, saying “It’s my opinion!” is usually the defense of those who don’t have the skills to actually back up and defend their opinion.

        If I say the earth is flat and the water flows off the edge into space I could cry out, “It’s just my opinion!” when challenged but I would be rightfully corrected by people who’s opinions are based on fact and informed science.

        That’s what’s happening to Kate here. People are using actual facts and logic to question why she and others of her mental persuasion have such allegiance to dedicate to a flag but not to extend to focusing on this country’s race issue.

      • doofus says:

        “An opinion is based on information which can either be correct or uninformed, saying “It’s my opinion!” is usually the defense of those who don’t have the skills to actually back up and defend their opinion.”

        I know I’m a broken record here, but…

        PREACH IT, ESE!

    • LOLADOESTHEHULA says:

      “People are entitled to feel any which way they want.”
      Say it again Dani, but this time looking at yourself in the mirror. You anti-PC folks are an odd bunch. Why do you not view what Kate is doing as policing, but see those disagreeing with her as policing her? She’s literally telling black people when they can and can’t protest.

      • Greenieweenie says:

        It might be your opinion that all women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. As a society, we have an obligation to shame you for that opinion because as a society, we are not better off if women are barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. That is an economic fact.

        It might be your opinion that we should all engage in mindless displays of patriotism at any cost. As a society, we have an obligation to protest and dissent when our civil rights are trampled on, even at the expense of mindless displays of patriotism. As a society, we are not better off if government oppresses any Americans. That is the logic of the rule of law.

        Hope that clears things up for you.

  19. Fran says:

    this whole “Beckys” thing leaves a real gross taste in my mouth. it’s just okay to group whole groups of women together by their skin color and use that against them?

    • Amber says:

      Agreed, the commentary about Kate isn’t cool. It’s derogatory and counterproductive. Kate doesn’t get what he’s doing and has rose colored glasses for sure, but she too can put her opposing opinion out there about this without being reduced being called a “Becky”

      • Amber says:

        For clarification Becky isn’t a term that is born of racism, it’s prejudice. There is a difference. Racism has to do with power. So let’s not get on the reverse racism train here.

      • Jessablessa says:

        Becky is a racial stereotype. The term Becky is synonymous with white female. Am I missing something?

      • Amber says:

        Jessa, yes you are. Racism is about power, privilege and social minorities. White people are in a position of power, privilege and social status that they cannot by the definition experience racism. Prejudice, yes. Bigotry yes…etc. Just how a straight person doesn’t experience sexual orientation inequalities the way someone from the LGBTQ community does. I’m white for the record. Do some reading on the subject of what racism is. It was crazy eye opening for me. I thought it had to do with skin color, but it’s not. Not trying to be snarky, but seriously, read this stuff, it’s good!

      • doofus says:

        QQ, that was a great link…

        This…?

        “the hip-hop equivalent of cucumber salad wrapped in a week-old chitlin”

        DYING.

      • UltimateAnon says:

        I watched a video discussing Taylor Swift and her white feminism. In the video the girl said something along the lines of ‘Taylor Swift does not have a problem with there being a king pin, she just wants to be the king pin.’

        I took this to mean it isn’t the oppression that is wrong, it is just the wrong oppressor.

        I’m wording this quite badly, I have never been good at debates – but with regards to the ‘Becky’ thing – it’s almost as if the segregation is ok it’s just the wrong people have the socio-political power.

        It seems intentionally divisive.

    • Becky is not synonymous with all white women, that’s just what paranoid minds came up with after hearing it for the first time, decades later, in 2016.

      It’s like when feathers were being ruffled about the dreaded racial insult of being called ‘basic’.

      • lexx says:

        The thing that really makes me laugh about this is that black women and other woc are called everything else and so much worse constantly. Consistently, with added violence, not just from black men, but WHITE WOMEN, constantly denigrating black women in order to make sure everyone is aware of their supposed superiority. Ms Epps knows she can’t beat her husband so she takes it out on patsy’s back.

        Listen up Becky if all you have to do today is cry about being called becky. Then you need more things to do. You need to go back to school. Find a new job. Or dump that dumb ass dude you have been dating.

      • Amber says:

        Lexx, this isn’t my biggest concern, but I have a valid point. For a person of color called me Becky as an insult, I would not take it lightly. I would know it was filled with hate and prejudice. I’m not saying the horrible things said and done to people of color are less important, just highlighting that respect goes both ways. Don’t use demeaning terms when you disagree with someone to belittle their humanity.

      • Kitten says:

        Ugh I’ve already commented more about something that I’m not invested in but I can’t help it.

        Yes black women are called far worse and I find that more appalling than the Becky sh*t but I’ve simply never understood this strong desire that people have to cling to any term that offends others, I just don’t. If someone tells me that they find a slang term derogatory and explains why in a rational, fair way, then I retire it. It’s not that big of a deal. There are over a million words in the English language–plenty of ways to express ourselves.

        And Lexx your last paragraph proves the point that a lot of people are making here that the term is a derogatory one leveled at any white woman, period. Amber and others aren’t demonstrating privilege or ignorance–quite the contrary, they are simply asking for the same level or respect they grant you and others, yet somehow we’re all “Beckys”…

        Oh, and people really need to learn the difference between whining/complaining/crying and simply pointing out that something isn’t cool.

      • lexx says:

        @kitten Oh i’m sorry maybe I’m confused. When has a WW being called becky led to her death? When has a WW being called becky led to her being raped or violence against her? When has a WW being called becky led to her being paid less? When has a WW being called becky led to her not getting hired for a job.? When has a WW being called becky led to her suicide? Show me the real world negative consequences to a word black people made up to designate a certain type of white woman. I’ll wait.

      • Fran says:

        I think for me, the part I don’t like is that a website that I’ve read and commented on for the better part of the last decade, one that refuses to body shame or slut shame, all of a sudden has writers calling every white girl “Becky” because of a term the black community uses to degrade white women. That’s really my issue. No one is crying or saying this is the worst part of our lives, but no one who comments on here really is discussing the truly devastating parts of our lives on here, are we? I’m not. This is a place for gossip and fairly polite discussions (more polite and civilized than you see most other places on the internet), so I was saying that I felt that the constant “Becky this, stupid white priviledged Becky that” was not sitting well with me.

      • Amber says:

        It doesn’t have to have tangible consequences. It simply is a word used negatively against certain white women. It’s not a good road to go down. I don’t care how the word originated, that’s how it’s being used now. You could argue about the word “gay”s original meaning, but it’s irrelevant now. And by you discrediting that negative implied meaning, you’re doing exactly what ignorant people said about solange, that because something it’s overt or obvious it doesn’t exists. What happened to solange was because she is a woman of color; it’s implied. Same here. The context of the word is meant to tear down a certain group of women. It’s not okay.

      • lexx says:

        @Amber “It doesn’t have to have tangible consequences.”
        Actually it does. To use your own examples. the f word lad to LGBTQ being discriminated at every possible intersection. LGBTQ people had their mental health called in to question, by real doctors. They were beaten to death.
        Oh and Solange HAD TRASH THROWN AT HER IN FRONT OF HER SON.
        But yes, Becky is ruining the lives of white women.

      • Amber says:

        This will be my last comment on the matter. No one is saying it’s ruining their lives. It’s not the same as the “N” word. No one is comparing. It doesn’t make it less wrong to say. Period.

      • Fran says:

        Amber is saying that the use of “Becky” to describe a group of women doesn’t have to have the “tangible consequences” like those that you mentioned for LGBTQ people to still not be okay – a group of people are using a term to group another group of people together in a derogatory way. Instead of fighting about it, maybe accept that people don’t like to be called names, and try to be better than that? Instead of doing the same thing others have done to you, maybe change the conversation. Because you well know that when you call a white woman Becky, you are doing it to put them down and feel better about yourself. In that sense, I see no difference in the name calling.

      • Lambda says:

        Lexx, nobody’s saying that the word is ‘ruining lives’. Actually, most posters were careful to differentiate between the effects words might have, depending on the direction they come from. So, are you defending your right to say words that express prejudice and contempt because those words are blunt in their consequences? If yes, how so?

        Personally, the word ‘Becky’ makes me laugh. I find it funny, I don’t know why, probably because I grew up in a family where good-hearted teasing was normal exchange. Teasing is welcome, prejudice, never. (Also, I’m not implying that black women should find the ‘Shaniqua’ names funny, cause there’s nothing funny about power imbalance.)

      • Erica_V says:

        Words can change in meaning.

        No one is using Becky as a term of endearment. It’s an insult with specific negative connotations about a specific group of people.

        It’s ok to be insulted or offended when someone uses insulting or offending words and phrases no matter your skin color.

        It doesn’t have to be on par to any other insult (racial slur or otherwise) to still be offensive.

      • deevia says:

        Lol @ you all trying to be super-PC during this black and white exchange. “Becky” is an insult period BUT it is referred to the ignorant people, which nowadays happen more often to be white people. The last part is what makes many uncomfortable because liking pumpkin spice latte is one thing and being described as socially ignorant is the death sentence to them. An added layer is that it is uncomfortable to acknowledge the celebrities of their racial group being conflicting with this ideal – the “one of us” subsconcious fight back. Becky is a brilliant term in this aspect because it highlights the problems in race relations that many would prefer to be the thing of the past yet it rears its ugly faces while not being part of their everyday experience. Being the definition of Becky while not intentionally acting like one has become a reality for many white people as it is the modern white experience in a country as large and as racially and politically divided as America.

  20. LilyT says:

    Another entilted white person telling black people what they SHOULD do with no real understanding of WHY. I’m shocked.

  21. Bianca says:

    Just because she is young and pretty, it doesn’t mean that her opinion is less important than anyone else’s. And she has the right to have an opinion about everything and everyone in her country, not just white people. She is an American citizen criticizing another American citizen. It’s her anthem, too.

    • Emily says:

      What’s your point?

      Sure, she can say whatever she wants. And so can all the people who are pointing out how dumb and wrong she is.

      So again…what’s your point? Because she’s expressing an opinion we all have to shut up and just accept it? That’s not only the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard but…why can’t she just shut up about people’s opinions on the anthem then?

      • Bianca says:

        Some people seem surprised that a blonde and very attractive model expressed her opinion on a serious topic. They disagree not only with what she said, but with the fact that SHE said smth (OMG, Kate Upton has thoughts!…) That’s my point, I hope it’s clearer now. Why should only Kaepernick’s opinion be out there? (Because it’s the one you agree with?)
        Would you still call her dumb if she wasn’t a blonde model?

      • Emily says:

        You can’t argue that people should be able to express an opinion no matter what while aruging that all opinions should be out there. Some people’s opinions are that she is a dumb model who should shut up. Why should only people who care about her opinion be allowed to comment on it?

        I hope you get my point. Being young and pretty doesn’t make your opinion any more or less valid than people who think that young and pretty person should shut up. If you’re going to argue that every opinion deserves to be heard…than they deserve to be heard.

  22. Amber says:

    I get what he’s doing and I think he’s accomplishing it bc we are having this convo. I still struggle with America as a whole being generalized as being racist. Be proud of America and the strides we’ve made, but don’t generalize all of it. Many white people care about social justice and do their part each day: acknowledge their privilege; demand more from the government. We are not the America he is talking about. We are the America that wants to be better. I’m not saying he shouldn’t kneel or sit, I’m just putting out there this one nagging thought I have throughout this.

    • K says:

      I fully support what he is doing and why he is doing it. I am a little worried that the media has changed the conversation from the very important issue at hand to are we disrespecting the flag by doing this, because I hear a lot of talk about his protest style and not as much about what he is protesting.

      He is doing something Nobel for a important cause I wish that was the bigger focus.

      Again this has nothing to do with Mr Kaepernick or how he has chosen to protest all of which I think are great it’s how it’s being covered.

  23. MellyMel says:

    I really would like a list, in full detail, of when and where and how to protest. Seriously… I keep reading comment after comment on twitter, Facebook,etc. about this not being an appropriate way to protest. How should black ppl and other POC protest in this country so it is not “offensive” to a certain group of ppl?? Because not getting up from a seat on a bus or a restaurant counter wasn’t okay. Marching loudly or quietly wasn’t & still isn’t okay. Using your musical talents to bring light to this situation is not okay. Raising your fist in the air is not okay. And now taking a knee is wrong. It’s like some ppl want us to be quiet and not say anything at all…oh wait..

    • doofus says:

      THANK YOU. you said it better than I did, but I feel the same way.

      has there EVER been a way that people of color protest that has won the approval of white folk?

    • oya says:

      well, people could go to church and pray for change.

      And hope they don’t get murdered.

  24. Marty says:

    When you read the history of the national anthem, not just the racist third verse that is left out, but how it came to be our national anthem it’s not exactly super patriotic.

    I just don’t see how standing or sitting during the anthem has somehow become synonymous with a person’s level of patriotism. If you want to support the military so much, there are much more helpful ways to do so.

    • doofus says:

      “I just don’t see how standing or sitting during the anthem has somehow become synonymous with a person’s level of patriotism.”

      and, apparently, it’s OK to sit if you’re at home on the couch and not at a stadium. seriously, how many folks watching at home stand with their hands over their hearts when it plays?! I guess it’s all about intent. if you do it at a game, and it makes people think about and possibly question their white privilege, and OMG maybe makes them UNCOMFORTABLE? well, according to some, you should be shot.

      I got no problem with it because I fully recognize that I experience white privilege every day. and it if makes other people aware of it, and more “woke”, then I’m all for it.

  25. poppy says:

    how did her “law suit” against uncle terry turn out?
    oh, that’s right, she signed a waiver, did her jiggly dance and then complained later after reaping all the benefits, so no law suit.

    STFU thirsty jiggle girl.

  26. Embee says:

    I get that taking a knee or otherwise not engaging in a patriotic ceremony makes people of this country uncomfortable. We want to see ourselves as a country worthy of soaring songs and a beautiful flag and see ourselves united in pride and strength for freedom. That’s the history we were taught and the way we self-identify. That’s also what makes Mr. Kaepernick’s protest effective. He is saying. “some of us are left out of these good things. We don’t feel free and we don’t feel like your brothers in arms.” It’s a call to his fellow countrymen and women to open our eyes and see what needs to be improved. No one likes to be told they need improvement; it’s insulting and scary and it makes us feel ashamed. I hope that we, as a country, can listen to our people and make the necessary changes. I really, really hope this doesn’t make us double down on the whole notion that if you don’t like it you can leave or worse, you go to jail for questioning the status quo. Really? Why not stay and make it better?

  27. QQ says:

    IDGASINGLESOLITARYF what Kate Upton Thinks is appropriate for black people to do to challenge the status quo… or really anyone for that matter, as a matter of course, as just another black man was Just killed this weekend legitimately eating chicken in his backyard here in broward county, I kindly informed my BF that it will NOT be likely that he will be seeing me standing for the anthem again in this lifetime by the looks of it, Unless I’m ever around a certain Barack H. Obama or his spouse.

    • Greenieweenie says:

      Me too. Making a point to not stand.

      I used to sit through it all the time–on base, in the movie theater, because they play it before a showing. I got up and danced all day long for flags and stripes and chevrons and taps, and I didn’t feel like standing up one more time. And nobody ever said a word to me because half the people were in the lobby buying popcorn or chatting themselves on a naval base where we were all active duty, so I am so over civilians telling everyone else when and how to stand for the military.

    • Nev says:

      WORD UP. (raises fist)

    • Yep!

      I’ll admit I’m not often in places where I’m expected to stand for the anthem but as of today if it happens, yeah I’m good with sitting.

      I’ve heard every bullshit reason why POC just keep mysteriously getting shot by police and Kate and her ilk can miss me all day day till Saturday with when, how, why, and where I can be angry about it so as not to interrupt their ‘America’ time.

      • QQ says:

        ALSO JUST cause i have time today: here is why we choose to sit, this is why Tons of Us are at breaking point because it’s not recent, is systematic and at the very least we get to call Attention to it

        https://twitter.com/Rambeling/status/775163619348738048

      • Oh Jesus QQ.

        I love you, I love the author of those tweets, I love the damn FACTS being presented with no filter…I KNEW this stuff and it still takes my damn breath away. Every single time. Whooo.

        Sometimes I really believe folks are lucky one way or another things are even this pleasant now, because there has been SO much damage and it’s so fucking amazing what gets people offended while they walk around with blinders.

        Smh, this stuff didn’t die out. Dilute? Yes. But you can find plenty of this ignorance still in many hearts and minds in this country.

      • QQ says:

        *fist up* Oh Eternal you think it took me what? 2 tewwets to follow her, she said she was writing a book, Interestingly enough, in news I can’t make up Twitter DELETED her thread ( she was getting all types of abuse online but for pointing out facts her thread gets deleted… Thanks god the quick thinking folks out there had it storified before Twitter pulled this stunt)

  28. Josefina says:

    I find American patriotism so extreme and weird. You dont even need a reason to sit out the anthem here. Standing up is just a symbolic thing. I just cant process how standing up for a song can become so important.

    When I first read about this I thought “wow, that’s about the lamest form of protest I’ve ever seen”. Color me shocked when I read the reactions to this and how somehow sitting out the anthem affiliates you with ISIS.

    This whole story is just so foreign and bizarre to me.

    • Greenieweenie says:

      ikr? I’d like black power salute during the anthem, thanks.

      Instead, you get the Seahawks standing…but linking arms. Wow. Such controversy.

    • Sixer says:

      Josephina – I think excessive patriotism goes hand-in-hand with being the world’s current superpower. It stirs positive emotions in most people and so it deflects attention from the often unpleasant things done to attain and maintain most powerful country status, and from the often inequitable domestic distribution of the resources and influence gained from that status. You can see that being played out here with this protest.

      It also takes a long time to decline. I’m in the UK and we are well over half a century from having that status as superpower. But you can still see traces of it and although nobody would be taken to task over not singing anthems or standing for them any more, it still taints our relationship with the rest of the world. And a significant proportion of the population will still tell you they don’t think the Empire was *that* bad. I believe it was one factor that led to Brexit. Roll on the day it’s gone completely, that’s what I say.

      • Josefina says:

        Absolutely. I agree with every single character in your post.

        The sentence “you should be proud to be American” struck a cord with me. I’m South American. American dominance during the Cold War meant a 20-year long dictatorship where many were tortured, murdered and literally erased from history. And nowadays Hollywood bombards me with films of American soldiers and their heroic acts, without even daring to acknowledge what happened over here (and maaaaaaaaany other countries). And I can’t even be mad – because whenever I express my completely justified hatred of these people (who tortured and murdered) people are quick to silence me and call me ignorant and disrespectful. Disrespectful. It’s disrespectful to hate murderers and torturers.

        So yeah, you could start questioning that pride a little. At least on international platforms. If you think people hate ‘Murica and it’s bizarre patriotism because they are loud and obnoxious, you should start reading history books by foreign authors. We have our reasons. And keep in mind all those acts are fairly recent (and current, even). Many of the people who lived them are still alive (unless they were murdered).

      • Sixer says:

        I kinda think I’m British so I’d best refrain from criticising anyone! Pots and kettles, you know? But I definitely think there is a correlation between levels of patriotism and superpower status.

        A long, long time ago I read a book called Requiem for a Woman’s Soul by Paul Riviera. It’s about the abduction and torture of the disappeared in those regimes. Had a huge effect on me but I’ve never found the courage to re-read it.

      • Greenieweenie says:

        The United States is a military empire. There are over 700 US military bases around the world. But it is an empire in necessary decline, for political and economical reasons. This is inevitable. So I have a tendency to connect this militant defense of the flag/national anthem to insecurity over the decline of American power.

        But people also used the Cold War, WWII, Communists and WWI as an excuse for rabid flag worship so…basically there’s always a reason for white entrenchment.

      • Greenieweenie says:

        Might be a long time. China still clings to the Ming Dynasty. The memory of power is long.

    • Lucrezia says:

      I dunno Sixer. Australia came out more patriotic than the US in the last “world values survey” results. (70% of Aussies said they were very proud of their nationality vs only 56% of Americans.) We’ve never been an superpower.

      These surveys can be hard to interpret across countries because there’s a huge confounding factor relating to cultural attitudes. (The Japanese simply refuse to give extreme ratings: give them a 5 point scale and your answers will range from 2-4; Germans score low on any expression of patriotism because of awkwardness over what happened the last time their jingoism got out of hand.)

      But this survey gets repeated every so often, and it’s reasonable to compare a country’s results to previous years. Back in 2003 the US was sitting at 70% in 2003. (Australia was just behind). So there has been a drastic drop in US patriotism in the last decade or so, while Australia stayed about the same.

      That leads me to think a couple of things:
      a) It’s not so much that Americans are more patriotic than others, it’s just that they’re more inclined towards visible displays, which can strike the rest of us as odd.
      b) BLM might be the proximate cause of Colin K deciding to sit out the anthem, but the general discontent has been a long time brewing. If Colin hadn’t sat over BLM, someone would’ve sat out over *something* sooner rather than later.

      • Sixer says:

        I guess I am talking about the expression of patriotism and the ritual involved and you’re looking at it more generally?

        It’s in my brain more now than usually cos Brexit, I think. Over my lifetime, I’ve witnessed the gradual decline of such ritual and the level at which citizens take it to heart or at face value, but we still seeing sharp spikes in reaction to events (at the moment, Brexit).

      • Lucrezia says:

        Oh, I see what you mean now! I did indeed miss the fact you were talking about the pageantry specifically not the general amount of patriotism. My bad, sorry!

      • Sixer says:

        No, my bad. It is what the word means to me. You are entirely correct that I am not the centre of the world and there are other connotations for other people.

      • Lucrezia says:

        Are we going to fight about this? It was definitely my bad – Greenie got it; I missed it.

        /start Kate Upton impersonation: And you can’t argue with me because I live in the most special place in the world. We should be all be grateful for the sacrifices of Australian soldiers that meant I could deign to read (and misinterpret) your words. /end Kate Upton impersonation. Urgh. I think I pulled my patriotic muscle trying that!

      • Sixer says:

        We could have a duel over it? Self-deprecation at dawn?

        (I’ll win that. I’m British. Snigger.)

  29. Tallia says:

    The players can sit and she can express her opinion and people may be disappointed in them all.

  30. thaliasghost says:

    I wish we would live in a world where we would listen more to people who have smart things to say. I once went to a lecture by Cornel West and my brain was working for days afterwards. I have no idea why we are listening to people who are neither educated nor socially aware in the slightest.

    • Embee says:

      Listening to Cornel West was a life-altering experience for me as well. I was alternately mute and mouth agape at his brilliance, and wanting to stand up and shout YES!!!

      His quote that love looks like tenderness in private and it looks like justice in public still takes my breath away.

    • doofus says:

      he lives in my town and I see him every so often.

      last time was at Banana Republic, of all places!

  31. Please, eye roll included with the package, simple minds think simple thoughts and then tweet them out for the whole world to hear.

    You’re right I don’t think Kate Upton has spent one second outside of her boring bubble to even think of this issue at all till she realized what was happening and even then she went for the shortest most simple response entirely focused on herself and her ideas of what America should be and how minorities should feel about it.

    Goodbye Kate, may the dragging of you on Twitter be filled with much intellectual discussion and hilarious memes.

  32. Colette says:

    Yeah Kate is a true patriot I just saw a pic of her in a bikini with an American flag in her mouth.
    #patriotism
    #sarcasm

  33. cr says:

    I wonder what Kate thinks of her uncle Fred Upton, who’s as US rep from Michigan. And voted against the 9-11 first responders bill three times. Because I find that a lot more unpatriotic than sitting or kneeling for the anthem.

  34. mellie says:

    To start an entirely different conversation…I wish we’d changed our anthem, this ‘song’ is just clearly so confusing to so many of us. God Bless America or My Country Tis of Thee would be much better National Anthems. I love it when they sing God Bless America at baseball games…it makes you realize the actual beauty of where we live.

    • Jenn4037 says:

      America the Beautiful is my preferred, I just wish we could find one that would leave out god.

      I always stand for the pledge and the anthem but that’s because it is what I’ve always done. We said the pledge at the start of ever school day.

      However.

      I don’t want to live somewhere where this is REQUIRED. Once you lose the freedom of choice – we’re no longer a democracy. Ask the Chinese and North Koreans and Russians what happens when they slight the governing party…

      • mellie says:

        Oh, I forgot that one, yes America the Beautiful would probably be the best choice. The God thing is kind of a touchy area. Agree with all that you stated above. Let’s just emphasize the beauty of the country, our freedom and liberty and get on with the game! haha.

  35. Puffs Mom says:

    Colin K. Lost all credibility with his peaceful protest the day he stepped out on the field with his sports socks depicting a cop as a pig. That is a thug like mentality that enforces exactly what most criminals use when describing a police officer. His response was “he is friends with cops” what kind of response is that? I would never insult another race, gender, etc… Then justify it by saying it’s okay I am friends with them. As an LE wife I am shocked at how that is just brushed aside and he is some sort of hero. There are others doing way more than he is and doing it right.

  36. Colette says:

    That song didn’t become the National Anthem until 1931 so what were people standing up for at events ,prior to 1931?

    • YourPedanticFriend says:

      Prior to 1931, My Country Tis Of Thee was one of the songs that served as sort of a place holder National Anthem. I’m guessing the fact that it’s the sung to the tune of the UK’s National Anthem (God Save the Queen) was one of the reasons the Star Spangled Banner made its way into our lives so that we could stand or not stand or . . . you know, whatever.

  37. Shark Bait says:

    She probably got a lot of praise on twitter too, from the ol basket of deplorables. It’s totes ok for the NFL to gloss over domestic violence but how dare they not bench or fine players who don’t stand for the anthem.

    I have a few family members (including my mom who thinks every American should stand for the anthem) and old classmates who feel very strongly about this. One lady said if you think that it’s ok to sit for the anthem go ahead and defriend her. I did not, because I’m enjoying that trainwreck. My aunt (totally goes in the basket of deplorables) shared a video of Ray Lewis calling out Kapernick and wrote “Ray Lewis is a class act.” Ray Lewis eh? Kapernick wasn’t ever involved in any shady stabbings but he doesn’t stand for the anthem so therefor he is scum…. ooookkkk. There is also the hockey coach who said he would bench a player for not standing. Oh oh and my mom shared a meme of a widow crying and receiving a folded flag at a funeral that said “don’t you dare disrespect our anthem or our flag until you’ve been handed a folded one.” Or the meme my mom shared from none other than Ted Nugent with flagged draped coffins that said “let us know which coffin contains the black soldier, so we can take off the oppressive flag.” Oh man guys, this is such a serious issue y’all! Forget systematic oppression and police brutality- no one better sit out the national anthem.

    • Jayna says:

      Ted Nugent gets more disgusting every day, but even for him that’s a new low. He’s not only a bigot but truly insane. I watched an interview with him somewhere on his property, and he is absolutely nuts.

  38. Jayna says:

    All of the “real Amur-icans” are offended, i.e. Trump supporters. I guess I’m not a real patriot, because I am in no way offended by a peaceful protest that stands for something.

  39. Amanda DG says:

    I don’t feel right with people sitting out the anthem, but it’s a peaceful (and apparently effective) way of protesting, so do what you gotta do guys.

    Besides that, there are plenty of ‘Merica lovin people who choose to buy beer at the concession stands during the anthem, so they need to STFU.

  40. Cinderella says:

    Kate’s dog took one look at this thread and said, “Ummm, can we go back inside now?”

  41. Trixie says:

    So people can insult her and call her names and that’s okay? If she were black and people called her names everyone would loose their minds.

    Personally, I think people can do whatever they want during the anthem, but I also understand why some people would take offense to that. I think Kaepernick’s protest is an interesting why to go about getting people to talk about the issue. BUT I don’t think people should be insulted for their views when their views are not insulting. So Kaepernick should not be insulted for his protest, and likewise Kate Upton should not be insulted and called names for disagreeing with his form of protest.

  42. Lisa says:

    So, it’s okay for her to say what she wants but not okay for him to do what he wants? Sounds free to me!