Y’all know that I’m not a Lena Dunham fan, nor am I a Lena Dunham apologist. I think she’s a navel-gazing narcissist, a terrible example of millennial feminism and a high-level attention-seeking troll masquerading as a pop-culture icon. She does, says and writes countless problematic things. But this week’s Lena Dunham story has left me feeling… a little bit sorry for her. Just a little bit. Don’t get me wrong, she absolutely said the wrong thing in the wrong way. But if you read her full comments, I totally understand the point she was trying to make, which makes the “outcry” and “backlash” against her comments all the more ridiculous. Lena was chatting on her podcast about a trip she made to a Planned Parenthood in Texas several years back, and how one woman asked her to share her experience with abortion:
“I sort of jumped. ‘I haven’t had an abortion,’ I told her. I wanted to make it really clear to her that, as much as I was going out and fighting for other women’s options, I myself had never had an abortion. And I realized then that even I was carrying within myself stigma around this issue. Even I, the woman who cares as much as anybody about a woman’s right to choose, felt that it was important that people know that I was unblemished in this department.”
She commended her loved ones, who have had to have abortions, for their “bravery” and “self-knowledge,” adding that she has realized her need to put her own stigma surrounding the issue “in the garbage.” She concluded, “Now I can say that I still haven’t had an abortion, but I wish I had.”
As I said, she said the wrong thing in the wrong way. Her point was about how even she, a full-throated defender of women’s reproductive choices, still has internalized the perceived stigma of women seeking abortion. That she might even be offended that someone thought she had an abortion at some point. That’s how we, as women, internalize society’s misogyny. That’s how men get us to vote against our own interests. That’s the point I think Lena was trying to make. But instead she started trending on Twitter with self-righteous anti-choicers telling her that she should be ashamed of saying that she wished she had an abortion story to tell. Basically, a bunch of people are telling her that having an abortion is awful and no one should want one and that’s why abortion-seekers should be stigmatized, right? In any case, Lena offered this long-winded apology on Instagram:
My latest podcast episode was meant to tell a multifaceted story about reproductive choice in America, to explain the many reasons women do or don’t choose to have children and what bodily autonomy really means. I’m so proud of the medley of voices in the episode. I truly hope a distasteful joke on my part won’t diminish the amazing work of all the women who participated. My words were spoken from a sort of “delusional girl” persona I often inhabit, a girl who careens between wisdom and ignorance (that’s what my TV show is too) and it didn’t translate. That’s my fault. I would never, ever intentionally trivialize the emotional and physical challenges of terminating a pregnancy. My only goal is to increase awareness and decrease stigma. I take reproductive choice in America more seriously than I take literally anything else, and therefore own full responsibility for any words I speak that don’t convey this truth clearly. I know plenty of people will never like a thing that leaves my lips, mea culpas or no, but this apology is for the women who have placed their trust in me. You mean everything to me. My life is and always will be devoted to reproductive justice and freedom. You know how in some households you curse and have to put money in a jar? Well in mine, if you mess up your pro-choice messaging you have to give a sizable donation to abortion funds (https://abortionfunds.org/need-abortion) in New York, Texas and Ohio 💰I look forward to fighting with you all for the next four years and beyond.
Okay. I don’t think she should have called it a distasteful joke? That’s sort of offensive.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
She tries too hard. Hurts true liberal cause.
That was my first thought too. She tries so hard it makes her look pathetic, not helpful.
I’ll give her some props for trying (other celebrities would likely avoid this topic like the plague), but… damn, girl, what the hell?!
This is exactly how I feel about her. I do sometimes think she gets a bum rap… she’s talking about this stuff, so good for her. But god, Lena, you don’t make it easy.
+100000
This, exactly this!!!
OK no more using THIS. Has to stop now.
Exactly. What kind of person would think “I wish I had an abortion” was a funny joke? Women who have made this choice certainly don’t.
Exactly right. She makes herself pathetic with that statement, but beyond that, doesn’t it mean more to have fought for something she has NOT had need of, simply because she believes it’s right? Abortion is a profoundly serious decision for so many reasons, and in so many ways, and some women are traumatized for years adterwards. In some inadvertent way Lena trivializes a decision that many women have made of necessity and with great angst.
She really doesn’t have either a filter or any common sense.
Ugh.
Just STFU.
OMG. So many words. Everything she said is SO not helpful. It always ends up being all about HER. Can’t stand her.
She keeps proving that she’s a marginal human being.
Hopefully now that her show is in its last season, she’ll just go away.
Fingers crossed, but unfortunately don’t see her fading into the background :/
How did this annoying woman ever become a thing?
I was just about to ask, “Why is she famous again??” but you answered it. Ugh.
Admittedly there is an interest in the mis-guided “liberal” minded millennial. This type of person may have lost us a democracy that hinged on the last election. One voice I’ll NEVER unhear is an interview on NPR with an equally nasally condescending 20 something saying, “we toooold you we OOONLY wanted Bernie. We didn’t even vote because you gave us Hillllary instead”. My point in this painful recounting is that Lena’s show was more of a “jersey shore” voyeuristic glimpse into the painful not funny entitled worst of the urban millennial. However, Lena (and others?) mistakenly markets herself as an “Icon” rather than a spectacle.
Well said, LoveIsBlynd!
Sometimes it is best to leave your thoughts unspoken. In my opinion, this is a prime example of that statement.
She needs to go to verbal rehab.
Best. Comment. Of the day! She is vile.
The older I get the more I realize, unless you know exactly what you’re saying, it’s usually better to stfu and listen. Lena just needs to keep it quiet and research this stuff on her own. She really is so privileged and exhausting though.
Thanks Lena for a such a choice phrase for the next Fox News Headline. Please go now.
Exactly.
Yeah fox news loves when limousine liberals give them this type of fodder. They are already riding high on the Trump win. No woman I know who had an abortion thinks of it as a merit badge. They were grateful to have the option! Keep The government hands off our p#$$! @$
Yeah… I can see what you mean, Kaiser. She just has a really bad way with words. And she’s annoying, so we all assume she meant it in a worse way. I don’t regret mine, but I still would have supported pro-choice just fine without going through it.
“She just has a really bad way with words. ” nothing we can hold against her being a writer and all.
I know. It takes two seconds to say, “I haven’t had an abortion myself, but I support the right to have one completely and without reservation. ” That is how a grown up pro choice supporter responds.
Instead Lena Dunham babbles nonsense and pretends she is a super cool feminist. No lena you sound like an idiot, once again. Stop navel gazing and get out in the real world. So much privilege with this one.
Exactly. I wish I had one?! Is she serious? Because its not like the pro-choice crowd has to fight the belief that women just LOVE getting abortions. Yet again she says something offensive and makes it about her. What a special snowflake
She is the worst and I’ve never seen so many on the left and right united until yesterday when people were (rightly) dragging her.
Seriously why isnt she canceled along with her bff Amy?
I see what she was going for as well and the fact that it was spoken and not written makes it a bit more understandable that she worded it so poorly. Unfortunately now we get to see this quote from every pro-life defender ever.
I disagree. I don’t have any sympathy for her. She could have stopped at the end of the first paragraph of her statement about stigma. The context does not make her comment any better. Either she knew exactly the kind of attention this would bring (because she has done this so, so many time before) and was wanting that attention or she is just that dumb and she should have learned by now to just shut up. So she is either arrogant or willfully ignorant, She has had way too many opportunities to learn and grow to get anymore leniency at this point for her incredibly stupid and insensitive comments.
I know, right? I wish we all got as many chances as Dunham. That’s privilege right there. Ugh so sick of her. Please let her stop (just like Schumer) with the whole, I don’t care–but I do care–look at me–don’t look at me schtick.
Her idiocy is painful. For as smart as she thinks she is, she says a lot of stupid crap.
She’s an entertainer. Taking risks is inherent in such a role. What really is *that* wrong with what she said? It was a joke. Subversive and off-color. You know this kind of language policing is a big reason why Trump won. People are tired of feeling we have to walk on eggshells all the time. Lighten up perhaps? Just a touch? Perhaps?
But who is she entertaining? The one thing both sides of the argument can agree upon about abortion is that no one wants it. Even women who have had abortions and don’t regret that choice would probably have preferred to never need an abortion at all which could happen if we simply had better options out there than we currently do. There are jokes only certain people get to make. You don’t get to joke about being black if you aren’t black. You don’t get to joke about abortion if you have never been in the situation where that was your only option. She isn’t just “taking risks”. She is willfully stomping all over people in the name of “being an ally” just so she can get this kind of attention because she does seem to subscribe to the belief that any attention is good attention. I’m not big on outrage but I will call out stupidity and cruelty any day of the week and this woman is just a jerk.
I don’t think those who found what Lena said to be entertaining voted for Trump.
@lightpurple
I don’t think most people who DIDN’T vote for Trump found what Lena said to be entertaining.
She really needs to go away now.
Her words hurt the causes she claims to value. All she does is come across as an out-of-touch, judgmental, privileged white girl who keeps putting her feet in her mouth.
I hate that she always comes back with “it was a bad/distasteful joke on my part.”
I tend to be fairly vocal about the fact that I’ve had an abortion, because I was lucky and had an “easy” experience and know it was the right choice for me. If people start yammering on about how God will judge me, I just say “well that’s my cross to bear, not yours.”
Agree Meghan – I’m vocal too. I really “enjoyed” the part where she says she’s “unblemished” in that regard. So, I’m blemished now? God, for someone who makes a living with words …
I skimmed her words and totally missed that. That’s awful, and no, you aren’t blemished.
How hard would it have been for her to say, “I haven’t had one, but I feel viscerally that abortion rights are human right,.” or something similar?
In terms of whether some women are lucky with their experiences–I cited this in a comment further below, but there have been recent studies that show women don’t actually experience long term psychological trauma from abortions; they experience more from being denied them. We feel like we OUGHT to be ashamed or regretful, but is that because it was a hard choice or because society tells us we should feel that way? I tend to think the second given the recent evidence.
@Pandy It wasn’t the best way to phrase the argument, but I think Lena’s trying to draw out how even the most pro-choice women can still internalize shame over abortion and wrongly see themselves as “unblemished” if they haven’t had one.
“…there have been recent studies that show women don’t actually experience long term psychological trauma from abortions; they experience more from being denied them. We feel like we OUGHT to be ashamed or regretful, but is that because it was a hard choice or because society tells us we should feel that way?”
No big surprise there. This seems to be a recurring truth about A LOT of people and choices that the right, misogynists, and other types of bigots like to stigmatize and pathologize: That almost all of- if not all of- the trauma/damage experienced by the people they vilify is due to how society treats and views those groups of people, what’s taught about those people, and the ways society attacks their rights and safety, not from the choice that the bigots are against themselves. But the ‘those people are making an inherently wrong, soul-damaging choice and liberals/feminists should not defend or promote such sinful harm” narrative goes better with their prejudices and superiority, whether it’s homophobia, the anti-choice misogynists, other types of misogynists, etc.
Yeah, I thought she was trying to be subversive and a little sarcastic with “unblemished.” I find her very try hard overall and not witty at all. I think she’s a half-baked passive-aggressive troll in the end and she does turn everything into something about herself. In an alternate universe, a successful Lena Dunham is more biting, witty, smart, and sarcastic.
Despite the seriousness of this subject, I’m biting my tongue so hard. Something about her bangs and an abortion…
sorry.
Her narcissism Is wearying. Her so-called apologies are always phrased to divert attention back to her favorite subject – herself. She’s a tiresome poseur.
^^THIS. FREAKING THISITY THIS!!!!
Just like Donald trump
I don’t see how you can say she’s a poseur. She’s an extremely accomplished writer, producer and actress, particularly given her age.
jfresh you’re entitled to defend her all you want but she is neither funny nor comes across as “smart” half the time. She puts her foot in her mouth endlessly because she speaks from a place of privilege and she doesn’t seem to want to see the “experience” from anyone but Lena’s eyes (which is why everything always comes back to her in her “apologies”) Anyone who has had an abortion will tell you if effing SUCKS it does a number on you mentally that stays with you forever so, no, she’s not funny and it’s not a joke.
@mar_time Thank you
She’s not accomplished at anything except self-publicity and molesting her sister. She got started because of nepotism. Her show sucks and she is a terrible actress. She has no accomplishments worth anything.
Agree with Mar_Time, Donna, and Robin. She is not 10% as witty as she needs to be to make what she wants to do actually work (and about 10000% way too self-involved).
“She puts her foot in her mouth endlessly because she speaks from a place of privilege and she doesn’t seem to want to see the “experience” from anyone but Lena’s eyes”
People like Judd Apatow so wanted her to happen and she’s still not. I think she puts her foot in her mouth these days also due to a creeping sense she’s about to finally fall back into oblivion with Girls ending. Trolling and controversy is what she’s after now.
Mar_time I agree that Dunham is insufferable bevause she constantly makes every issue about herself and when she’s called out on her idiocy she falls back on to “a bad joke” each and every time and doubles down on the making it all about her BUT you are very very wrong about anyone who has had an abortion viewing it as “effing sucking” and feeling that it did a permanent mental number on them. In all but one exception, every woman I know who’s had one, including myself saw it as a MAJOR RELIEF not something that scarred as forever and whilst we wouldn’t do it for fun most of us agree that it sucked no more (and certainly for me way less) than most trips to the dentist.
Study after study has shown the majority of women who choose to terminate a pregnancy are not scarred by the experience.
She is an accomplished writer and successful actress. I’m tired of all the negative comments that accompany almost everything she does, from her actual statements to ripping apart her apologies. She is entitled to her opinions and yes, everyone else is entitled to disagree but it feels like a dog pile, and negative comments on her appearance come up repeatedly.
Ugh I just wish she would zip it she’s exactly the rare,special snowflake privileged idiot that gets weaponized against us.
Exactly that one statement did more to hurt women’s health then anything Trump has done so far because it gave them proof they were right that women loved doing it, that it was fun, that we just see it as a convenient form of birth control. Every hateful negative lie they say to paint women, pro-choice and women’s health issues in a negative light she gave to them in a single sentence.
Exactly. White women’s privilege…ugh…and it always comes back to her, never really a true apology and if she does, she still manages to show that she doesn’t really get it. Please, Lena, just stfu for once and stop using your platform to objectify, shame and attack the very people you claim you give a shit about. All she cares about is Lena.
I don’t know why some people think she’s the best thing since sliced bread, she’s distasteful, not funny, offensive a lot of the time and this is just another example…
Clear example of a “crusader for women’s rights” we don’t need. Lena goes on and on without even keeping her privilege in check and almost always, ends up throwing together a half-*ssed apology on some sort of social media. Wishing she had an abortion for the sake of saying she had one is disgusting. Women who have had one or are planning on having one are going through perhaps the most awful period of their lives. It’s the hardest choice. It’s not something you wish for, like a venti at Starbucks. She really annoys the living crap out of me.
people have abortion for many reasons. health, unwanted pregnancies etc..
what she said was really offensive .. its disgusting..
you dont do abortion just because you want to be called pro choice whatever..
for real ! she is disgusting
Yes, whether she intended it to come across that way or not, it totally comes across in a “I wish I’d HAD an abortion so I had some legit credibility when speaking about this topic.’
Which is an incredibly selfish thought to have.
So Kristen do you not have selfish thoughts?
I have to get off of this thread. The mud slinging is so misplaced. Do all of you just stay inside all day criticizing people who are out there doing things? It’s an extremely complicated world out there. Good luck trying to accomplish any more significant cultural contributions than Lena has. I’m pretty certain none of you ever will.
@Jfresh
I can’t speak for Kristen, but I can speak for myself of course I have selfish thoughts. But I always try to think before I speak and think of how my actions and words impact other people. I also don’t have a massive platform in which my words are going to get covered or heard by millions. So if I and I am sure many others take time to think about what I say then someone with a platform has to take extra care because their words have bigger impact.
She needs to think before she speaks, it is ok to have selfish thoughts everyone does but if you don’t think before you speak you can hurt others and that is wrong.
@JFresh Ha! You have no idea about what we will or won’t do or what we have accomplished. You come to a site called “Celebitchy” and don’t expect the snark? Also, this is *not* the first time Lena has done this kind of thing. She wants to be seen as a writer but constantly says and writes the most offensive things for which she is then apologizing as if the wording was wrong. Over and over. For a writer who claims that title…? And what she says is always starting from a neoliberal stance that ends up maligning the very people or causes she is trying to connect to in what ends up looking like an attempt to steal fire or objectify her way into being perceived as something other than a privileged white woman who was always told she was a special snowflake or at very least encourage and supported–still!–to get where she is. Her platform is huge but if she were talking about hair removers or nail polish, it wouldn’t matter. The problem is that she continually inserts herself in these misguided attempts at relevancy to issues and individuals that she ends up hurting because of her “misplaced” words. And then wants us to feel sorry for her.
I agree that part of her reason for making this comment was about wanting some kind of credibility boost that she thinks having actually gotten an abortion would add to her stance. Part of it was also her going a little overboard/tryhard in trying to prove that she’s free from the abortion stigma probably. It was a dumb statement that the Trump/Pence snakes are going to manipulatively spin as something that represents all pro-choice/feminist people.
This. Also, an abortion is not the current fashion trend it is a tough decision that women make for different reasons, in my opinion that is why it is so important for women to be able to chose what to do with a pregnancy.
does she NEVER learn anything? if this was the first time we could have a debate if its that bad and that everyone says dumb and offensive stuff at least once but Lena does this now for years. she is also not a 16 year old dealing with the media for the first time, she is 30. let that sink in, she is 30.
i mean she also said she is sad she isnt homosexual…
also why does she have to make EVERYTHING about HERSELF?
on the other hand, kudos for pulling it off being hated by both MRAs and PoC feminists. the only people in her corner are…surprise…white women.
This white woman is NOT in her corner. I think she is an idiot.
Old white woman here. Dunham sets feminism back decades and arms the right with a perfect stereotype. Who made her famous? Critics who live in a bubble and thought her show was “relevant.” Now we have the classic “halo effect” A celebrity known for one thing gets asked about EVERYTHING, as if that person has some special insight.
Another white woman here. I am in the opposite corner, the corner where I can throw a rotten tomato at her. WTF. As others have said, we can now look forward to seeing this inane comment repeated on every right-wing site out there.
Regarding everything being about her…over the years I noticed this about my mother-in-law. It almost became a test, but then it just became incredibly annoying. And guess what?! Total narcissist. She’d also suffered a terrible trauma as a child (me justifying?). But you couldn’t discuss ANY topic without her telling you how it applied to her. Or was it just poor breeding? Idk.
So she said she is sad she is not gay? I hadn’t heard that.
What’s next ,she is sad because she wasn’t born Black so she could really understand what’s it’s like.SMH
Agreed. This is just who she is! She is simply a narcissist who will continue to default to self-centeredness every damn time for every damn issue! People keep giving her the benefit of the doubt when all she does is affirm that out suspicions about her are true!
Yeah, I’m not sure Lena has the majority of white women either.
Older white woman here and I can’t stand her. Don’t want to hear her or see her at all. I know there much be some white women that enjoy her, just not anyone I know or have ever spoken too.
She needs to just go away.
She still sounds like an a**hole, and as usual, it is just another excuse for her to post a long paragraph about her poor, misunderstood life and make sure all the attention is focused on her.
She can’t even champion a cause without making it about her.
60 seconds of internal dialogue and self reflection before she opens her mouth might help this constant problem she has for saying stupid, thoughtless things, but then she wouldn’t get anywhere near as much attention.
I get what she was trying to say in her poorly worded way and I’m not going to slam her for it. I’m Pro-Abortion. You want one? Have one. That is your legal right and none of my damn business. Period.
Maybe that is what she should have said. Bringing faith or morality into it is where we get messy.
I wish folks would stop accepting her lame apologies and posts about it all being a misunderstanding. This is like the tenth time she’s done something like this just this year. She’s ignorant and racist. And I hate when folks try to say she’s not self-aware. No she’s self aware. You wanna know who isn’t self aware? The celebs who have lived their whole life in the bubble of Hollywood. Those folks aren’t self-aware. But Lena knows exactly what she’s saying and doing but doesn’t give a crap. Lena always likes to get on us about how she went to a liberal arts college and how intellectual she is so she clearly knows better. And for someone who claims to be this great writer she has a poor way with words. If 2016 could do us a solid and just make Lena irrelevant, that would be great.
That would be just about the only solid 2016 has done for anyone besides Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, but what the hell — I’ll take it.
Nope, I don’t feel sorry for her. She did not have to say,” I wish I had one”. I understand that she felt she was adding to the stigma by always saying, ” I have never had an abortion”, but her trivializing or trying to say that in order for someone to understand someone you have to have gone thru their journey is just plain dumb. We should be able to have compassion for our fellow human beings and fight for each others rights with out having to be in their shoes. Just imagine if she was standing up against racism and said,” I wish I was black, because what you go thru is so brave”, she would deserve to be called out on it. Stop making it about you Lena.
THIS…all day long!!!
“We should be able to have compassion for our fellow human beings and fight for each others rights with out having to be in their shoes.” This. Her well-intentioned but self-absorbed way of looking at being an ally aside, this is also why it’s always so infuriating when people try to shut down conversations about rights, progress, inequality, and oppression with the tired, “The only people who would defend x group of people ARE x group of people. Dismiss!” argument. Not only does it just reinforce those groups’ positions as unequal in society and erase peoples’ voices, but it’s also a very shitty, dangerous, and selfish way to look at human rights. It’s a projection of that person’s own narcissism (among other things) because they think the only people are empathetic and willing to advocate for anyone is if those rights are something that directly applies to them, or if the person is exactly like them.
She didn’t even have to talk about this. It’s a hard concept for a narcissist like her to understand, but not everything has to be spoken about in terms of “lenas experience” and “lenas personal thoughts on this” and most especially “what does this all imply about LENA?”.
She should stick to talking about the cause and for once FOR ONCE just leave herself out of it. But that’s impossible for her to do, sadly, which is what makes her such a sucky advocate for any cause at all.
Yes, this is her problem – she’s an insufferable narcissist and everything has to be about her. It totally killed what was actually a valid message.
But isn’t she’s like a fake narcissist though? Her narcissism is her way of saying I’m not physically in that supermodel mould but I deserve to be narcissistic anyway because I’m an (pseudo) intellectual and I have hipster cred and I come from art royalty.
Oh for the love of . . . I’m not one for telling people what they can and can’t say but can somebody ball gag this woman already.
It’s clear to me that she thrives on attention, negative or no. Well there you go Spotlight’s on you, you narcissistic, thirsty, shitty bangs wearing a-hole. Except you’re alone on the dance floor. Because nobody’s got time for you and your usual baity bullshit.
Gawddamn but I can’t stand this woman.
if you want, i’ve got $20 on that Ball gag … she is so absolutely f*cking Tiresome
This has got to be one of the more appalling headlines I’ve read here. I’m glad there’s more context behind it. I also see what she’s saying but there are a million other ways she could have expressed compassion and empathy.
Next thing you know she’s going to say she wishes she was one of those children in Aleppo who have become orphans.
She’s already wished she was gay. Now she wishes she had an abortion so being an orphan is next on her bucket list.
When you go too far in either direction, you become a parody. An example on the right would be Ann Coulter and Tomi Lahren. They all look like cartoons.
Oh lena… why must you make everything so difficult. I think many times she’s just over explaining things and it’s not necessary.
Pro choice is just that. You either would have an abortion or you would not have an abortion, however you support either one. You don’t need to have had an abortion to be pro choice. At this point in my life I wouldn’t have one, but I sure as hell support any of my friends and fellow woman who do choose. Regardless of their circumstance it’s their decision and I fully support it! Always will!
Yep. Pro choice is exactly that. It’s believing an individual should have autonomy over their own body REGARDLESS of your own experience or personal choices. I have always been 100% pro choice, no ifs, ands, buts or exceptions even though most of my fertile life I felt I would probably personally not get one. As it happens, when I was in the situation rather late in life I didn’t even have any comflicted feelings. I knew instantly that abortion was what I would do and I have not regretted for a second. Maybe if faced with the choice again my choice would be different (though it’s now thankfully an extremely unlikely thing, there is one upside to aging!) maybe it wouldn’t but what would never change is my view that my choice applies ONLY to my body and no-one else’s.
She is a text book attention seeker, just like Amy Whatshername. Both like to say or do things that will get them attention in the media, doesn’t matter if its positive or negative – media attention is media attention.
Their immature antics are damaging to Feminism.
Why does she think we care about every single thought she has?!?! I know women who’ve had abortions (and men who’s partners have) and are pro-choice, but none of them were flippant and all of them were sad about the choice in some way. Acknowledge this is a hard decision with lots of feelings attached, don’t wish you’ve gone through it. Dang this woman.
But sometimes it’s NOT a hard decision with a lot of feelings attached. Why should everyone be required to treat it that way? Assigning moral weight to abortion is one way of internalizing shame. I know you anecdotally cite a few women as evidence of the weight of the decision, but there has actually been a recent 5 year study (by some of my colleagues) about this which suggests women don’t experience long term psychological harm from obtaining an abortion. Actually the greater harm comes in being denied one. http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2592320
Lena was making a rather intelligent point. Too bad she had to dilute it with flippant jokes.
Thanks for posting this. I like that it was a longitudinal study, rather than cross-sectional. I understand for *some* women, it’s a hard decision with a lot of feelings attached, but for many, it is not. Agreed that continually allowing anti-choicers the authority to frame the debate along moral lines, we do a huge disservice to women’s right to choose. So that you for sharing!
In other news, I can’t stand Thursty Dursty Lena.
Not me. Not sad at all. Not happy about it any more than I was happy about getting any other medical procedure but not at all sad and the only “feeling” attached to it was the feeling of “thank goodness that’s done”. Possibly because I live in a nation that is far less religious and far far less judgey about a woman’s control over her own body, but I only know one woman who has any sadness over her abortion. She doesn’t regret it though just wonders what might have been. Everyone else, and I know many women who’ve had one aged from late teens to my late grandmother who had to suffer the illegal variety, reports no sadness or difficulty with it. The assumption and myth that most women feel sad about it just buys into the shameful/morally dubious playbook.
So she was talking to another woman going through a challenging time, and it’s still all “me me me I I I”. That’s what I find offensive. It’s not about the cause or the human being in front or her. “Me me me I I I. I wish I had an abortion. I like to play Delusional Girl and say stupid things and not get called on them.”
I cannot with this broad.
I’ve never had an abortion. That’s my choice. Every woman is entitled to theirs. My mother had an abortion a few years before I was born, at a time when having another child (my parents were separated, in relationships with other people, etc.) would’ve meant I wouldn’t be here (if she didn’t end that pregnancy & work on her marriage).
She had a choice, & I’m here today because of it. I don’t want to have an abortion, don’t feel as if I’m missing out on an experience, & don’t think I have nothing to contribute to the cause/conversation.
Lena Dunham is the worst.
She constantly makes things about her (that never ever are) then defensively makes light of, belittles, or invalidates other peoples experiences that she doesn’t or “can’t” relate to. Then back peddles with a standard issue insincere non-apology apology.
Rinse, repeat.
The. Worst.
It’s offensive to all the women, who lost a baby against their will. Or had a stillborn.
That’s no pro-choice support. That’s short-sighted, self-righteous narcissism.
Didn’t she molest her little sister? How is she even a thing?
I wonder this every time I see her name. The Duggar son got all sorts of crap (rightfully so) but Lena fully admits all sorts of horrible things in writing and people yawn and make excuses.
I am neither a fan not foe, I have no strong feelings about her. But taken in that full context, I absolutely get what she’s saying. I’ve found myself prefacing pro-choice arguments I make with, “I’ve never had an abortion” and yeah, it’s wrong and I’ve got to stop doing that. She made a good point that unfortunately will be completely misconstrued in a nation that elected Donald Trump.
+1 I agree. Even though she annoys me too, she made an excellent point about recognizing her role in attaching stigma to choice. That made me stop and think.
Can’t stand her but I absolutely agree with you that the one great point she made is getting lost in all the hand-wringing.
I have a bad habit of prefacing my comments about being pro-choice with “I’ve never had an abortion myself..” and I’ve never stopped to think about how I’m contributing to the stigma. I will NOT do that from now on.
It’s a real shame because she made a really important point but she just had to ruin it by following up with an ignorant statement.
This is her pattern though.
Agreed. She ruined it by making it all about her and putting her foot in her mouth yet again. She does constantly and seems to never learn. And of course she and all her little fan poodles go on about “haters” and what not.
She could have even just said “I have never had an abortion, but would not be ashamed if I had” or something along those lines.
It is nobody’s business whether I have had one or whether you have had one or whether the Moron Known as Lena has had one. And that should be the point.
There is an argument at the root of what she said.
I’ve had an abortion. I don’t feel any stigma. I don’t regret it. It wasn’t a hard decision. I had no emotional trauma. I’d get another one tomorrow if I accidentally fell pregnant again and I wouldn’t grieve or even think much about after the second it was over. I don’t care who knows. I don’t give a monkeys if A N Other thinks I murdered a baby or some other anti-choice nonsense.
I understand that this is just me and I also understand that abortion is a traumatic process for many women and I believe with everything I’ve got that they should receive love, understanding and care for that trauma and never, ever, ever be stigmatised.
Lena Dunham cannot make this argument because the stupid cow LIVES to be faux-stigmatised. And because she gets off on being faux-stigmatised, she is the worst, worst, worst person to ever speak for women suffering ACTUAL stigma.
I wish she would GO AWAY.
Sorry. Ranted!
I still do sometimes find myself mentioning the fact that I’ve never had an abortion or even been pregnant before when the abortion subject comes up, as a preemptive strike against the “Only women who are having abortions are pro-choice anyway” card.
Very good point, which is why she should never, ever, ever be the person making these kinds of points! I’ve prefaced my pro-choice advocacy with “I’ve never had one myslef,” more for accuracy’s sake and to not co-opt an experience that isn’t mine, but regardless of my intentions, that statement could be read as going along with the stigma of abortion, so I will stop too. But, she also needs to just shut the hell up because I did see her point even on my first pass, but she just can never help her thirsty, self-righteous ways and muck it up! We need to bench this idiot and substitute Amandla or Zendaya!
I don’t think saying you’ve never had one, or even never would have one in the context of being pro-choice, is necessarily stigmatising. I certainly could be depending on wording but most of the time I don’t think it is. In the same way as noting that one isn’t gay/black/disabled isn’t stigmatising when stating that discrimination on any of those things or denying anyone else’s bodily autonomy (a big thing when it comes to many disabled people) is wrong.
I agree with you. If she wants to be taken seriously as an advocate, she needs to speak more carefully. Her stupid “joke” totally derailed the really good point she made. I do what I can to support groups advocating for reproductive justice but I would feel really uncomfortable making public statements about the issue because I often say really foolish stuff without thinking.
Ugh…can’t feel bad for her, she’s her own worst enemy
I know a lot of people who wouldn’t personally have an abortion that believe it is still necessary to keep that option open for other women. And it isn’t internalized mysogyny that makes them opposed to it for them personally.
What Lena and some “feminists” need to understand is that all women are different. We don’t all have the same ideas about how life should be or the same priorities. And that’s ok. It doesn’t mean some of us have been brain washed by men.
Maybe Lena wouldn’t choose to have an abortion. Maybe that wouldn’t be the path she would pick. That wouldn’t make her any less of a believer in her causes. The fact that she is 30 and doesn’t understand that is kind of sad.
+1
Her bangs are driving me crazy
I was just wondering if she trims her own hair with a weed whacker.
Whoa Commenters. Such a harsh response to Lena Dunham. She’s damaging to feminism….!? I get her point. At least she’s having a conversation about something.
As I person who had had multiple terminations in the past, I can read and understand context enough to not be offended by her comments. Do I think they are somewhat juvenile? Sure. But having these conversations should not be yet another reason for women to jump all over women. We are trained to do so by our internalized misogyny. As mentioned I have had 4 terminations. The overriding feeling I can recall after each was relief. The sadness associated was hormonal,, and not a minute of therapy has since been required to get me over it.
Come at me if you wish. (misogyny wants you to…)
Well that’s you experience.Obviously for many woman is was a traumatic ,emotionally painful experience.So if you can’t recognize that for some women “therapy was required”,I feel sorry for you.
😶 the trolls on this site have just been so weird lately…
It’s a sign of the Trumpocolypse!
Almost as bad as when Tom & Kate split, they came out of the wood works then as well. We are living in another era of trolldom on gossip sites.
See the problem is that she was making it about her and you now are making it about you. I don’t judge you or think that you should feel bad but I hope you can understand that for some people it is a hard experience. We are all different and things affect us all differently, that doesn’t make anyone better or worse. Women’s rights should be about women being able to make decisions that are best for them and their bodies without being judged or stigmatized for it.
I could not agree with your last sentence more.
Lena Dunham, an essayist, was asked about her experience with abortion and answered honestly, speaking in a personal context about her firsthand experiences with the stigma of abortion. Such a bad feminist.
SHE WAS POINTING OUT THE STIGMA AS IT EXISTED IN HERSELF , a self decribed feminist.
I commented, and I spoke in the context of how her words affected me, a woman with personal experience of abortion.. I made it about me because thats the insight i have.
Dissenting opinions on this site bring out the name callers pretty quick. (I am not a troll. I am a regular commenter.) That is not feminism that is called a hive mind.
Krakken, her intentions were probably good but the argument here is mostly about the execution (though obviously she’s very self-absorbed in how she sees the world). On the execution, she doesn’t have the wittiness to carry it off.
I am going to go at Lena Dunham over this because for the next dozen years or so, possibly long after Dunham herself has lost any relevancy of any sort, the fascists are going to quote this statement of hers and claim that her words express the views of all who are pro-choice, that all who are pro-choice wish they had had an abortion just so they could say they had an abortion – and they will spin it into more rhetoric about joyfully killing babies. That is not what is needed in this country on this issue or any issue and that moron Lena gave them ammunition.
I don’t think I get your point at all. We aren’t trained to jump on other women only because of internalized misogyny (social competition is also a common evolutionary adaptation among mammals, and humans aren’t immune to our genetic predilections simply because of a superior intellect). And even if misogyny were the sole reason women attack other women, I’m not sure how some women would find themselves significantly more immune to it by virtue of their recognition of the phenomenon alone. Baiting others to attack you because of your confidence in internalized misygony doesn’t seem like a very charitable (or particularly feminist) method of communicating on a site for which the readership is obviously heavily female-leaning. And while no thoughtful or sincere person could judge you for having a relatively untroubling time with your abortions, there are those who don’t have the same experiences as you, and it’s their right to feel hurt by Lena’s flippant remark and/or air that frustration on a platform that has generally aimed to be a safe place for women to have dialogue.
God, she is so tone deaf, she is pretty much a caricature.
Most ridiculous comment I have heard in a long time.
I’m a pro-choice feminist and I can’t stand Lena Dunham. She’s too stupid to be a real feminist. No sane woman ever wants to have an abortion or wishes she could. It’s actually a painful medical procedure and some of us make the serious decision to have it done. Lena should be grateful that because of sex education and better birth control that she and millions of other women will never have to get a abortion. And she needs to stop giving so many interviews!
Almost every period I’ve had was more painful than my abortion. It wasn’t emotionally painful either. The unwanted pregnancy was but not the abortion. Numerous studies have shown most women view the societal stigma more difficult than the actual abortion.
If a celebrity gossip blogger has to explain to us what she actually did mean, then she did a really bad job expressing herself. I’m pro-choice, and even I was staring at her words hard strangely. Why didn’t she just outright say that she had internalized the misogyny of the culture rather than putting out her words in such a convoluted way?
I think she knows exactly what she’s doing when she says things like this. Her whole agenda is that of a covert narcissist. She makes a stupid statement, gets attention, then backlash, and then she can play the victim once again to get more attention. “Poor feminist ally-to-women me, I try and help and I get kicked for it. Wah Wah Wah”
I have to agree. This has happened too many times. She is one who always whines about having haters.
Great summary. She’s super thirsty for those headlines and clicks these days.
Everything about her is excruciatingly painful…to read or hear anything come out of her is like nails on a chalk board. I wish she would stop already. She’s marvelous at making people hate her.
As someone who did have an abortion, I found what she said so offensive. It’s not a feminism badge of honor. I am so grateful I had the option to have an abortion and I think everyone deserves the same. However, I didn’t feel strong or empowered afterwards. I felt relieved, scared and in pain. I’m not ashamed of my abortion but I don’t feel the need to discuss it all the time. There’s a saying that goes along the lines of “a woman wants an abortion like a bear stuck in a trap” and it perfectly describes it
And honestly, the damage she is doing with this kind of statement in giving ammunition to the “alt-right” fascist regime just installed here (as someone who grew up with military regimes and coups, I call it like it is) is very problematic. I still remember what I went through at this horrible location (not Planned Parenthood) and the rabid pro-life (if ever there were a worse term for who they are) protesters outside the gates…it was horrible. So it’s really dangerous for her to use her platform (as a “writer” no less) to say things that could make it harder for PP and other places like it to continue the work they do in caring for women.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.”
Abraham Lincoln (or Mark Twain)
I find Lena Dunham exhausting in every way — she is at the top of my permanent eye roll list — and the phrasing she made here was extremely poor, utterly self-centered and not even slightly jokey.
But the overall message better extolled in this story, is an important one: Women’s choices should NOT stigmatize them. No one should ever be made to feel embarrassed, ashamed or less than because of a difficult decision they likely agonized over. (And, yeah, even if you didn’t find it a difficult choice; you still shouldn’t be vilified.) You should be comforted and cared for, for making a heartrending choice that was best for you, instead of being humiliated and scared to “admit” to a legal medical procedure. … All that, was spot on. Like, whose business is it of anyone else’s if, or why, a woman chooses to terminate a pregnancy? All the qualifiers people have to make to “explain” their support of women controlling their own bodies is ridiculous.
For instance, I’m a mom of three who had multiple miscarriages, each one devestating, before both my first, and second, much-wanted children. Each of my three successful pregnancies felt like miracles to me because they are less in number than the pregnancies — all wanted, all planned — that my body failed to take to term. I’m also an adoptee, born in a post-Roe v Wade world, so my teen mother made her choice, as well. Additionally, my (biological) brother is an adoptive parent x2. He has his girls because of the generous choices two young women made. So, I’m pro-family, pro-adoption AND pro-choice. But, the thing is … None of that preamble should be necessary to be able to just say that last bit. I shouldn’t have to clarify that being pro-choice means I want the right FOR MYSELF to CHOOSE to be pregnant and give birth, and that I want the right for every pregnant woman to make the choice of adoption, parenthood or termination FOR HERSELF. Oh and, she should also be able to talk about that choice, whatever it ends up being, or not, as much, or as little, as she wants. That’s how all personal health should work, IMHO.
Geese, I can appreciate what she was trying to do with her podcast. It’s important to try to remove some of the shame from making this choice which is hard to do when nobody talks about it. There are so many reasons that women choose to terminate, I’m happy she is putting it out there, regardless of her thoughtless comments.
Sorry it wasn’t just anti-choices coming at her for this one a lot of pro-choice people were, including a lot of hollywood people. This comment was beyond offensive, she was basically saying I wish I was part of the abortion click so I could say I had one as if it was a hand bag instead of a decision women take very seriously. It made that decision sound flippant and like women who made it are selfish and caviler which they aren’t.
If she was trying to make a larger point she did a horrible job because in one statement she mocked every single person’s POV. And yes before I was outraged I read her full statement, and if she had ended it before the I wish I had had an abortion it would have been very compelling and thought provoking but she didn’t and she even admitted it was a joke.
Sorry people coming for her weren’t self righteous they were on both sides asking for respect, how dare she be so flippant about people who make that choice, I haven’t ever but I know people who have and it wasn’t an easy thing they did it not because it was cool or trendy or a feminist thing to do but because in their hearts they felt it was right for all involved. I also know people who couldn’t bring themselves to do it and they made the same difficult choice not to, not because they are some how more righteous but because they felt it was right for them.
Lena needs to STFU and go away. It is not that hard to think before you speak and consider other’s feelings and yet she never does that.
I can say, I don’t think anyone ever wants to get an abortion. It is often not an easy decision, let alone people wanting to experience it. That is so offensive. Then to turn around and call it a ‘joke’? STFU.
It’s more true to say no-one wants an unwanted pregnancy than to say no-one wants an abortion. I wanted mine very much, as did many of my friends.
It’s like no-one wants cancer but if they have it most people absolutely do want medical treatment that will help. So technically no-one wants to HAVE to have an abortion/chemo rather than no-one wants abortion/chemo.
Sometimes I wonder if Lena was the rumored gerbil that Richard Gere allegedly gave birth to back in the 90’s.
Alright, my distaste for her is such that I came into this thread fully ready to dislike her even more and make it clearer. Well, now I have to say, even I can’t. I get her point and, for the first time ever, fell sorry for the backlash. What she said is still as wrong as can be, but she did mean well. This time, at least.
No doubt she meant well but the dislike/backlash is about how she communicated it and the likely impact (giving more ammo to anti-abortionists).
Well she tried to explain herself and did not work out. Seriously, probably someone had to explain to her what exactly was wrong with her original comment. She is so self absorbed she doesn’t even understand that not everything is just about her feelings and her self exploration.
“My words were spoken from a sort of “delusional girl” persona I often inhabit, a girl who careens between wisdom and ignorance (that’s what my TV show is too) and it didn’t translate.” — If it didn’t translate, then it’s maybe time to, I dunno, retire that persona and create one that’s better at communicating simple concepts. Or maybe she should stop using her tired, useless comedic shtick when she’s trying to make any sort of pertinent social commentary, especially something as sensitive as abortion rights. Or just stop using the whole, “This is how I do my comedy guyzz, lolzzzz,” excuse like she did before when she was joking around about how that one person she sat next to in an awards show didn’t, “want her.”
At any rate, while I’m glad that she’s attempting to be introspective about herself and where her prejudices come from, she’s still a fucking idiot in terms of how she dealt with it. It bothers me mostly that she turned around and tried to center the conversation about herself and her experiences, yet again. “I’ve never had an abortion, but I wish I had.” Nobody cares about you in this situation. The person who is by far the most affected by anti-abortion stigma is the person who’s had or is going to have an abortion. I get that this was her way of expressing solidarity, but something I’ve learned over the last little while is that this is a messed up way to go about it. It kind of forces the conversation away from the problem and instead puts to focus on how you wish you could relate to the cause you’re supporting. I get that people think this is a way for them to show how much they stand in support of another person, but this doesn’t work. And in this case, it’s made a number women who have had abortions angry as well.
People who need support for a cause don’t care about whether or not the people supporting them have been victims. They care about, and need, your empathy. You shouldn’t have had to go through their experience to understand why something is important to them. There are so many ways she could have handled this better, and yet, she continues to use her comedy routine as a way to deal with issues like this. It’s so fucking frustrating.
She started off so well and then it just all went downhill. I do think it is important to recognize & call out prejudices we find in ourselves. Without self recognition we can not change.
My issues with this is her saying it was a joke because I didn’t thinks he was telling a joke when I read the first comment I thought she was trying to say ‘I wish I had so that I could really understand how these women feel” that she wanted to be able to experience empathy not just sympathy for the situation.
When the show first came on it was a fresh take on the millennial generation mocking themselves, self-deprecating humor, making light of the so called frivolous narcissistic generation. The longer the show went it on, seems they were the characters themselves and were trying to justify their behavior.
Media, stop trying to make Lena happen! She’s not going to happen!
So tired of her . Every time she opens her mouth, she sets back women’s causes and makes herself look like a fool.
I really hate it when people say what I am about to say, but in this case, it is so true. I honestly don’t know a single person, liberal or conservative, who likes this woman. Seriously, what is the demographic of person who loves her?
Why is she being covered by anyone? Her 15 minutes have been over for quite a long time. Please go away!
What a piece of work this woman is. Just sociopathic.
All I can think about is the Simpsons episode where the aliens Kane and Kordos disguise themselves as politicians and run for office.
Alien Politician: “Abortions for all!”
American people: “Boo!”
Alien Politician: “Very well. No abortions for anyone!”
American people: “Boo!”
Alien Politician: “Hmm. Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!”
American people: “Yeah!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0aNxzF7MAk
Sounds about right.
I wish her mother had.
I don’t really. But she left herself open for it, so i obliged.
Delusion knows no bound.
Why does she think she has to personally experience an event to show empathy? Just empathize and support.
Being shock by a thoughtless comment Lena Dunham has made is like being upset that Oscar the Grouch lacks positivity or surprised that Kayne lacks humility. Lena Dunham is the Kale of celebrities. Both are really popular but I personally don’t know anyone who likes either.
I live in Europe where Lena Dunham is literally a nobody. I have never watched any of her shows nor listened to her podcast. But the things I read about her, she seems just like Gwyneth Paltrow. Rich white girl coming from a sheltered environment, trying really hard to be edgy, to pretend that she is concerned by various social issues.
I don’t see how you can be pro-choice and yet joke about wishing to have an abortion, like it’s so easy, like it’s a walk in the park. On the contrary, when you know all that it entails, when you are informed, that’s when you realize how incredibly hard it is and how important it is that women should be supported in their choice.
Youth is wasted on the young, Lena. Some day you’ll know.
I sincerely cannot stand this troll.
Just wow. Way to be an asshole AND provide anti-choicers with ammunition. How in the world does one think ‘I wish I’d had an abortion’ is a joke? Does she think all the women who have died because of abortions are amusing?
Generally I don’t have a stick up my ass about this sort of thing but she’s revolting and has used up all her get out of jail free cards.
Incidentally, that lopsided fringe is a crime against nature.
Lena is like many people who can’t understand that you can be pro EVERY human being having basic inalienable rights even if you have never had to fight to have those particular rights recognised personally – see white feminists who say stupid things like they wish they were not white because “bravery” vomit that is barfed up all too often.
I’ve had an abortion and I understood exactly what she meant and appreciate her explanation. I think it’s a very good point in fact that most women have internalised a huge amount of misogyny, it’s frightening. Also: so sick of mostly MEN claiming that abortion is horrific and one of the worst things a woman can experience. I’m sure for some this is true, but for me I got pregnant from idiocy and carelessness, was with entirely the wrong man at 21 and there ain’t NO WAY I was birthing that child. It was a practical decision, I still adore babies and have zero emotional scars.
Lena Dunham is exactly like her character on Girls. She is one of those people that doesn’t think before she speaks and when someone calls her out she gets angry and defensive. I don’t get her.