I don’t know much about Tinashe. She’s a singer/actress and the only time I’ve really paid attention to her is when she was reportedly going on a few dates with Calvin Harris last year, in the wake of his split from Taylor Swift. Well, Tinashe has a new album coming out called Joyride. It’s her first since 2014’s Aquarius, which is a pretty long interval between albums for most artists. To promote her new music, Tinashe chatted with the Guardian about how difficult it has been to carve out a fanbase when the music industry seems to only be interested in Rihanna and Beyonce. She also talks about colorism within the black community and what it’s like to be mixed race, and more. You can read the full piece here. Some highlights:
Why she quit school after her acting career took off: “There was a lot of misplaced jealousy, so I didn’t want to be there any more.”
Her entrance into the music industry & sexism: “There’s a lot of sexism in the music business. A lot of sexism. As far as female producers or female engineers … when you’re in these studios, it’s all men. It is so rare that they’d not even expect me to have an opinion. It’s so much easier for male artists, I know it is,” she says. In early 2016, months after Joyride’s announcement, a Twitter message, apparently from Tinashe, emerged claiming that part of the hold-up was down to her label focusing on “Zany”, AKA the newly solo Zayn Malik. “I sent that message, yeah, that RCA was focused on Zayn? They were! But I have nothing against him; more power to him.”
She’s gotten a lot of support from women in the industry but not men: “Male artists don’t really co-sign female artists like that, and if they do it’s always like, ‘Are they f–king?’ It’s never, ‘Oh, I really like her music.’”
Fan-tribes: “Recently, my cousin was with a friend of a friend, who was in high school, and she was like: ‘I’m a fan of Kehlani,’ but in a way that was like, ‘So I can’t be a fan of Tinashe, too.’ Then my friend posed the question, ‘Why not be a fan of both?’ It’s kind of like sport; people feel like they have to pick a side.. There are hundreds of [male] rappers that all look the same, that sound the same, but if you’re a black woman, you’re either Beyoncé or Rihanna. It’s very, very strange…. It felt like they almost had to sacrifice someone because there wasn’t enough room, which isn’t true. Ciara’s an amazing artist, Beyoncé’s an amazing artist, Rihanna’s an amazing artist, and they’re all very different!”
Being mixed-race, colorism: Tinashe’s mixed-race heritage, which was used “as another example of why I was different” during those difficult school years, also remains an issue. “There’s colourism involved in the black community, which is very apparent,” she says carefully. “It’s about trying to find a balance where I’m a mixed woman, and sometimes I feel like I don’t fully fit into the black community; they don’t fully accept me, even though I see myself as a black woman. That disconnect is confusing sometimes.” A shrug. “I am what I am.”
It’s the colorism thing that has become the talking point/controversy from this interview. I’m not a black woman, so I don’t feel like it’s my place to speak on Tinashe’s views of colorism within the black community. But as a mixed race (half-white, half-Indian) woman, I’ll tell you my views of colorism in general, because it’s a discussion with Indian women as well: women with lighter skin are seen as “better,” by society, by the media, by other women. Insinuating that she’s the victim of colorism is like Jessica Biel saying that she’s a victim of being too pretty. That’s not really a thing. The real victims of colorism are the darker-skinned women whose skin color is associated with lower education, lower class, lower intelligence and fewer opportunities. What do Rihanna, Ciara and Beyonce have in common? They’re all very fair black women. That’s not a coincidence.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I agree, Kaiser. She may have felt “other” in the black community, but not because of colorism. To the contrary, she’d be seen as “better” or “prettier” than the darker skinned women, who sometimes never get a chance to break into the industry. There’s a reason that 90% of black shows/movies/stories are cast with biracial actors; they’re considered more attractive and more palatable to the mainstream.
That whole statement is part of the problem.
Being fair and black does not instantly make you biracial. None of the female artists referenced are categorized as biracial.
Blacks, asians,latinos have a huge problem with skin color, eye color and hair.
How fair you are and the perceived advantage.
It won’t change because it is perpetuated by each generation.
It definitely is part of the problem.
“The real victims of colorism are the darker-skinned women” is both true and false. I believe everyone’s a victim when there’s colorism involved.
We’re Mexican, and my little sisters were actually told by their teachers they couldn’t take part in school activities (involving Mexican holidays) because they didn’t “look Mexican”. Can anyone say that kind of discrimination is not just as damaging? Both little girls came home crying and they didn’t understand why they couldn’t do what their friends were doing.
How the heck does a “real Mexican” look like? 90% of us are mixed to a greater or lesser extent. It makes no sense to make this distinction.
LaLa
Just no. I’m sorry that experience was painful for your younger family members but…no. Colorism doesn’t mean that sometimes lighter people get their feelings hurt or are denied access to rights and privileges.
It is. Not. Equal.
Erin, excuse you? It doesn’t matter if you act the victim (the other is better because genes, oh pity me) or feel superior (the other is darker, I’m better because genes, looky me), you are judging because of color. F that! It’s the judging based on meaningless measures that’s messing up society. You might be better at math because you’re interested in the matter and therefor more suited to be an accountant. Or you might stink at spelling because you could not care less about it and not be the best candidate to become an editor. But NOT because your skin has a certain amount of melanin per cubic inch.
Isn’t Beyoncé technically mixed? I thought she had a French (great?) grandmother and some Native American “blood” for lack of a better word. Maybe if confusing her with someone. Miss Tina has extremely fair skin. Does mixed race mean you have two cultures at home? I assumed Rihanna was “mixed” as well with Spanish / first peoples of the caribean.
@ Lala a teacher shouldn’t prevent anyone from participating in activities based on color or race, everyone is involved or no one at all. That’s standard for working with minors. But no colorism does not go both ways equally, darkness has literally been used to dehumanize people by denying them rights, holding them in bondage, associating it with ugliness and low intelligence. People who think you don’t belong to an ethnic group because of light skin and the dehumanization of dark skin IS NOT EQUAL. Race based societies, which includes Mexico after Spanish invasion, have used whiteness as the highest tier and darker as lower. While most of Mexico is mixed the indigenous ethnic groups and Afro-Mexicans still face discrimination for who they are. No secret that Latin America worships light/white standards. The fact that your family member’s skin prevents them from being racialized as “other” should be a clue.
Mieke,
You’ve got to be kidding me. First of all even the language you put in the mouths of the “victims” is problematic on every conceivable level. Darker skinned people don’t feel that lighter skinned people are better because of genetics. They are tired of being systematically and institutionally treated as if they are inferior. Let’s see if you would be so condescending and dismissive if it held you back from good jobs, homes in good neighborhoods or basic human respect. Your statement says a lot about how you feel about the “victims” here.
At this point I have to assume you completely missed or misunderstood my point. As in completely. Please see Littlestar’s comment above, which said what I wanted to say but more eloquently.
@Hadtochangemyname
+10000000
There are academic studies done by African-American scholars showing with all things being equal, in a job interview lighter skin minorities and tall people are always perceived as smarter, more intelligent, more capable and given more benefit of doubt than darker skinned or shorter people. This is not conjecture, it’s hard facts. This has a real impact on people’s economic, health, and social status. There are also many justice department studies that even Republicans can quote on darker-skinned individuals facing harsher and longer incarceration sentences. Dark skin equals dangerous and evil in the court of law. Check out who gets pulled over by cops more. That is what colorism is all about. What this lady is complaining about is REVERSE-colorism.
In Hollywood it has even more of an impact on Black women’s ability to have an acting career both in Black films and mainstream films. Even Denzel Washington brought this up in an Oscar round table a few years ago in regard to his daughter who is as dark skinned as him. He wanted to discourage her from acting because he thought she would have the triple disadvantage of being a woman, Black and dark-skinned. For some reason darker skin in male leads is good (but not in the real world) but women are supposed to be as faired skinned as possible (light and blonde). It’s the tall, dark and handsome line or “hot chocolate man” which we are programmed to view as more virile, romantically aggressive and having a bigger package. Whereas the actress should be a light, delicate flower. All stupid stereotypes.
So yeah Kaiser told NO LIES: “The real victims of colorism are the darker-skinned women whose skin color is associated with lower education, lower class, lower intelligence and fewer opportunities.”
Preach, Original T.C.!
Yes, specific instances of discrimination are devastating (like those referenced above with respect to the little Mexican girls and below, with being bullied for being light), but it’s not SYSTEMIC, like what TC has just spoken about and that is studied and proven.
So, yeah, while there may be instances where being fair might be problematic for the individual, it isn’t widespread, like it is for the darker skinned sisters.
Just wanted to add on to the point about what Denzel said he told his daughter in that Hollywood Reporter roundtable: he mentioned that he told her she’d have to be a triple threat like Viola Davis to really have any chance in the industry. And Viola Davis herself has talked about the fact of her being dark skinned limiting the parts she has been offered, despite her skills.
Think about it. The Oscar Viola finally won was in the Supporting Actress category. Not lead. The only black woman to EVER win a Lead Actress Oscar is Halle Berry, who’s biracial. (Though Viola did win a Lead Actress in a Drama Emmy at least, being the first black woman to ever do so).
It all stems back to the house slave vs field slave thing, where the house slaves were usually light skinned (and usually because they were mixed race, being products of rape of the slave owners towards their female slaves), and so sometimes didn’t have it as harsh as the field slaves. Unfortunately, the black community itself has continued in many ways to perpetuate all of this, with things like the Paper Bag Test and such. (Look that up if you don’t know what it is). I remember even seeing flyers once for a dark skin vs light skin party once, and that was in the mid-2000s.
That said, Light Skinned/Biracial black people (and women mostly) *can* get a lot of hate directed towards them by other black, darker-skinned people. When it comes to systemic racism, they are still *black* in the grand scheme of things, and the reason the One-Drop Rule ever became a thing in the first place. (And if you don’t know what THAT is, look it up as well). Even if it is still correct that they don’t face all same things that darker-skinned men and women do.
Seems all her problems are somebody else’s fault
Exactly!
I think her problem is that her sound and look is very generic. Hence, why she can’t attract a fan base.
You guys, Mike says racism and sexism don´t exist, we can stop talking about it now. We clearly have been wrong about our experiences all that time. Thank you, Mike. Have a cookie.
Nice shade @ Sendepause…I see what you did there 👍🏾
yeah, I just think that her music is awful and lacking, nothing to do with color-ism and what not. I like good music of any genre! Maybe next time blame it on the alcohol, boo boo kitty! lol
Pretty much. At some point, she needs to check the chick in the cracked mirror.
At first I was taken aback too because I thought she was blaming her lack of success on colourism and If there’s anyone who should complain about how colourist the music industry is it should be people like Jazmine Sullivan, Kelela, Kelly Rowland that get less exposure because of their shade. After reading it again I think the two different topics got coflated together and I actually found myself agreeing on the fact that some people think that there can’t be more than two or three black women on top in mainstream music at time. It’s the same thing with hip-hop and this new obsession for having one popular female rapper at time.
Some of the most innovative music made by black women hasn’t “crossed over” to mainstream yet: Lianne La Havas, Laura Mvula, Nao.
Yes, she seems to mix up two things: While mixed race people do often experience like they don´t belong to any community, this is not what “colorism” is. In terms of colorism she is on the more privileged side of the tracks when compared to people with dark skin (but not to white people).
Yea black twitter was not having it and neither am I. She BENEFITS from colorism so she can take her BS and shove it.
Girl bye.
Isn’t her arguement just Goops argument?
The old chestnut, ‘I’m so pretty that everyone hates me!’
Except you know, you benefit subtley from all of that beauty, and the benefits far outweight the costs.
I mean, there is something anti establishment to be said about wanting to pull down someone who epitomizes the current value system and doesn’t aknowledge it; and also the jealousy that comes with success, especially woman on woman.
The thing is no one is pulling her down. Black people are the reason she’s seen ANY success so far. But to play the victim (of an issue she benefits from) is what is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way
for sure, and I’m sorry that wasn’t quite my point, because i didn’t really have one, more the ramblings while I muse on this current trend of victimhood.
Where people claim that the strengths that contributed tp their success, are actually their weaknesses. I’m not sure if i’m clearly explaining this, its still kind of nebulous for me, and thank you for yout time and the insight.
Its very strange to point out the tiny negatives of a certain positive (being beautiful for example) as a huge downfall and position yourself as victim because of it. I completely understand people being frustrated and upset with this.
The point about black people supporting her success is bang on. It’s especially shitty to crap on the audience that got you where you are.
Okay I get what you’re saying. I hadn’t had my coffee at the time lol
But yea she basically sh*t on her black audience. Magically as a biracial woman I don’t see her complaining about her lack of a white audience…amazing.
If she wanted to speak about issues that light skin black women face (the way they are sexualized because of their skin tone and the fetish that is connected to that) then I think that would’ve been okay since there should be discussions about that. But to bring it up in the context of colourism and discrimination within the black community is ridiculous. It’s as if she thinks what she experiences is the same as (or worse than) the discrimination that dark skin black women experience.
I wanted to be a fan of hers and support a fellow black woman but now I don’t think I can.
^This @Anna! I tried to give her a chance as Black woman trying to make it in a harsh industry even though her vocals are clearly lacking. She’s a decent dancer. But this latest BS she’s spouting only reinforces why I’m not a fan.
She’s claiming reverse colorism but vaguely, deceptively narrows it down to feeling ostracized by others in the black community. What does that even mean? I call bullshit. She seems to be saying hey Beyonce and Rihanna are always at the top – I’m lights-skinned and deserve to be at the top, too. gmafb. It sounds she’s the special little victim snowflake who sees the black community as other, not the other way around. And for her to not be able to think of any other reason her label isn’t breaking its neck to release her album seems…Azalea Bank-ish to me.
I think I mislike this one.
+2…you and me both!
It is true that mainstream culture favors light skin but honestly we pay for it within the community, especially with our darker sisters. I can tell you I have faced inexplicable hostility from my darker sisters over this thing that I have no control over. I was pointedly ignored by the cashier where my mum used to send us. Spent high school being physically shoved aside by a clique who seemed convinced that I exist to steal their shine. I’ve had conversations in which it has been hinted that I have lightened my skin, that I am a “coconut” and my fav, that the ONLY reason that boy likes me is because of my complexion. Because apparently it cant be because I am fun person or smart or you know just pretty. And thats another thing, I had a cousin who told me that I am not “actually pretty, its just the coloring”. I spent school hanging with the white girls not because they were wonderful but because their hostility wasnt overt. My sister is now having a simialr experience of her own. Yes, its horrible that even within the community, there is a history of denigrating the darker girls but please also acknowledge that there are 10 year old light skinned girls right now paying very dearly for it.
Cherise, I don’t know what you look like, but, yes, there are plenty of light-skinned black women who aren’t actually very attractive but are considered as such simply because light skin and “good hair” are prized among some people. I would never tell a specific light-skinned person that she’s actually not very cute, but, yes, plenty of black guys have a fetish for light skin and wavy hair alone, no matter a woman’s actual facial features. The same men may pass over a beautiful dark-skinned woman or regard her as “pretty for a dark-skinned girl.” That’s how colorism works. Light-skinned people are deemed attractive no matter what they look like, while beautiful dark skinned people are viewed as exceptions to the rule. You may be a fun, awesome person, but that doesn’t mean you don’t attract light-skinned fetishists. I’m sorry that you have faced hostility, but I don’t think the hostility you’ve faced from dark-skinned women anywhere compares to the hostility that dark-skinned women face within the black community and in greater society because of white supremacy. You seem to completely overlook that many black people of both sexes love women who look like you. Anyway, I write this as a dark-skinned woman who’s been considered attractive my whole life and received praise for my looks from people of all races. I really have no reason to be hostile toward light-skinned women, yet it is crystal clear that colorism is a huge problem in society. Also, I tire of biracial or light-skinned people saying they’re not deemed black enough. I have two black parents and have repeatedly been told I’m not black enough by people who think the way I talk, present myself, or my interests are “too white.” I ignore these people. You can’t let other people define your blackness, especially those who view blackness in very narrow and stereotypical terms.
@WTW
Preach. As a light-skinned Black woman, I do occasionally face some hostility from the community but it is nothing like the overt hostility my darker skinned sisters face both in the community, the outside world, and from white folks. Yes, colorism hurts everyone to a certain degree but some of us unfortunately also benefit from colorism at the same time in a paradoxical way.
Also, I completely agree that you can’t let others try and define your Blackness. It is something I occasionally struggle with myself as people have (rarely) made the type of comments you mention in references to my interests or my hair but Blackness is a hell of a lot more multifaceted than one narrow term.
@WTW
You illustrate my point perfectly. Firstly I began and ended my post by acknowledging the challenges of the darker sisters. Nobody is denying that there is and has been a problem there. We are saying that it must not give you license to ostracise girls for being different from you. While it is hurtful to read you dismiss painful experiences in my life, it is not uexpected. Too many sisters think they have a right to use relational aggression to “even” some imaginary score with light skinned girls.
Also, if there are guys who are first attracted to me for my coloring how is that any different from them first bring drawn by my curves or your legs or her blonde hair? I know guys who live by the adage “the darker the berry” but I dont go around dismissing them as “fetishists”. They like what they like, good for them. Why do you feel the need to demean another persons attraction to me? As for the “you wouldnt be pretty if you were dark” line, we know where that insult comes from. Its born of the bitterness from having to hear that you are “pretty for a dark girl”. I sympathise with that but please dont put that on me. I would be hot, Tilda Swinton white, Mindy Kaling brown or Lupita Nyongo dark. Why? Because as all three prove, complection has nothing to do with being hot.
Cherise
She did acknowledge your particular struggle and apologize that you have been made to feel bad but she was also pointing out other valid truths. And you say complexion has nothing to do with being hot? Look around you, go to the movies, turn on your television or pick up a magazine and then tell me you feel comfortable saying that. Lastly, you fail to discuss the role many lighter skinned women of color play in their own treatment within the black community. It’s as true as any and everything else being discussed here. I learned the hard way. In middle school I had a light sknned friend that I considered a confidante and true bff. We shared secrets, discussed everything under the sun and were inseparable. But gradually I began to notice things such as her change in attitude when other people were around – namely any boys and people of any other race than black. Flipping her hair, flirting, using a flatter, more middle American dialect, failing to even casually acknowledge any interest in black movies, musicians or athletes etc etc. the worse part was how her treatment of me changed – disparaging comments about my inability to wear certain hairstyles, jokes about not needing to tan made in front of whites, asking me to carry things for her or go get things for her. It took my mother and another good friend to finally get me to see what was going on.
After that it was easier to spot and I learned how to cut off toxic relationships with people like that – from the light skinned girl who prides herself on being the one who can get free drinks for her darker skinned pals at the club to the one who came to my wedding in a 3 inch strapless bandage dress and clear lucite stilettos. I’ve also had light skinned friends and family members who are the exact opposite but both types exist. My mother, grand and great-grandmother were all very fair skinned and they were quite honest with me about the fact that light skinned women often use their complexion as a weapon – sometimes defense, sometimes offense.
Bullies usually are punching up to some extent. There is some little thing (or more than that) they are jealous of in their victims. If a kid is bullying /picking on another kid who has nothing in life “better” or luckier than the bully then the bully probably has some kind of psychological issue or mean bully parent(s) / sibling(s) at home.
@Cherise 👏👏👏
I’m sorry that this bitter woman wtw is dismising your experience.
1. Who is anyone to say what beauty is or isn’t? You can’t dismiss someone’s beauty because you think if they were dark they’d be ugly. Beauty is relative in every way
2. A lot of dark celebrities mentioned above aren’t that talented. Many many dark black women are famous (Whitney Houston,SWV,Mary J Blige,etc), and Beyonce and Rihana aren’t that light. They both look like women of Nubian descent
3. Shame on you for allowing the indoctrination and legacy of slavery to make you so bitter
Ugh. Oh Tinashe, no girl. At the end of the day, colorism is a huge problem and us light-skinned women (unfortunately) benefit from this inequality. A generous reading is that she was trying to say that sometimes she feels like people consider her too black or not black enough. The issue is if that was what she was trying to say, she needed to point out that she realizes her privilege and not seemingly place all the blame on the Black community. IF that was what she was trying to discuss, she went around it in the worse possible way.
Also, as a light-skinned Black women who fully recognizes that f*cked up dynamics of colorism….this type of conversation needs to happen in a particular context. I’m technically multi-racial and I get the feeling of sometimes feeling like I’m not “Black” enough…..but Tinashe is in an industry where her light color helps her tremendously unlike someone like Jazmin Sullivan. If she was going to discuss her personal identity issues, she really should have done so in a certain type of interview and stress her privilege. A standard celeb fluff piece was not the place to bring it up.
Also she reminds me of a manga character.
You hit the nail on the head. I completely agree Kaiser.
I side-eye people who blame their problems on others being ‘jealous’. Naw. It tends to be that you’re a self-entitled princess who treats people badly and is so self-absorbed you don’t know that you contribute to the problem. BTW-being light-skinned you benefit from colourism which means she not the sharpest knife in the drawer either.
There are a few things that bug me about this interview:
Tinashe is representing colorism in an overly simplistic and inaccurate way. What she experienced is undoubtedly hurtful but it is not colorism. I was called an “oreo” throughout my childhood because I liked to read and go to school. Both situations are just pure ignorance, not colorism. Her talking about colorism in such a personal way with not a hint in her comment or tone that she is aware that she benefits more from colorism than a darker skinned black woman in her age range is disturbing. Yes, both dark and light skin people get shit on due to the long term negative effects of racism and self-hate, but her comment is still lacking. It comes off more as a pity me statement.
She goes back and forth between calling herself mixed race and black, which one is it? You cannot really be both. You either acknowlege both cultures that you are a part of our only one.
Aren’t most of her fans black?
Lastly: the color divide amongst blacks and other non-white people is a worth while conversation within our communities but overall these conversations are not meant for all people’s ears.
@Aiobhan, yes you can identify as both mixed-race and black. The mixed-race experience has always been part of the black experience in America, so I don’t fault Tinashe at all for describing herself as both. She is black and she is mixed-race, one doesn’t cancel out the other.
No, you really shouldn’t use the terms interchangeably as they are not the same. One is embracing and respecting both cultures in her family and the other is singling out one culture for praise and leaving the other behind. She has nothing to be ashamed of for being mixed race. It is not the only thing that defines her as a human. Her being mixed race is not a setback and people should not try to make her feel inferior because her mother is white or that her father is black- even though some people do. She should not be erasing her white heritage to seem “down” with her black side; nor should she have to erase or degrade her black side to make the whites comfortable with being around her. She should not have to choose between the two.
“Lastly: the color divide amongst blacks and other non-white people is a worth while conversation within our communities but overall these conversations are not meant for all people’s ears. ”
I dont understand this, which may be part of the reason you feel these conversations shouldn’t be shared, but do you mind explaining? You don’t have to do so either, I can try to look up this viewpoint later, but I really enjoy your thoughts.
Is it just because people who don’t know what they are talking about will chime in with no real understanding (raises hand, prob me right now), or be hurtful? Or maybe just take energy away from the real issue?
For a very white lady, I find it incredibly enlightening (educational? its not fun, but its good to know) to hear whats going on in communities that I may not hear about otherwise. It gives me a window into some of the day to day problems WoC face and I hope allows me to be a better ally.
@ detritus
Honestly, yes, it really is because some white people have no idea what they are talking about. Some white people (not you) don’t think about the historical context of anything and just add their opinion to a converstaion because they were taught that their opinions matter in all situations. Colorism within the black community is a long, complicated, and frustrating topic to deal with and then to add outsiders ( wrong white opinions) to an already complicated situation is like adding molten hot magma to a city that is already on fire. Pick whichever disaster situation you can think of and then add something else destructive on top of that to get my point. Plus, I feel that some whites use these situations distract them from dealing with their part in ending white supremacy.
The difference between you and some of the people that I am talking about is you are not assuming anything and are just asking questions. Some people have a way of framing an assumption into a question and it becomes irrating to speak or type a comment to that person because you don’t know where to start: correct the incorrect information or try not to beat the other person’s ass for being obtuse.
Thank you for responding Aiobhan, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain. And honestly, I appreciate all the WoC around here who bring their voices to the table, its needed, even though sometimes it sounds really hard and painful.
To me this sounds like its one of those multifaceted issues that are incredibly complicated because they are so very personal, and in this case, steeped in historical context. As soon as you start telling someone they personally benefited from a privilege… its hard going. It becomes the oppression olympics and everyone has it worse and no one wants to believe that they got to where they are through extinsic factors.
I imagine when ignorant outsiders support certain opinions, it makes the fight to be heard even harder. Just thinking about when men jump in on womens issues, and how frustrating that can be. And like you said, then you just try to keep your cool so someone doesn’t call you a bitch and have that negate your entire arguement because tone seems to matter more than message.
Thank you (and those other strong voices) again for voicing this stuff here. I may not always comment, because I don’t want to intrude, but this is important stuff for us white ladies (and others) to realize and educate ourselves on.
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.”
@detritus
Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond to both posts! I appreciate it a lot.
There is really nothing to add to your comment because you have summarized my feelings in such a sophisticated and nuanced way that I cannot improve upon it.
Aiobhan: I meant to tell you weeks ago that I really appreciated your diligence in explaining and commenting on threads like this. Loving all your thoughts and expressions!
Really? Wow!! Thanks!! You as well.
I’m so over biracials (mixed with black) complaining about not being black enough pity party. I’m sorry but you have a parent who is not black, why do you feel like you should somewhat feel the same as someone with 2 black parents? Yes you’re black, but you’re just not black. You have a whole other culture/race that’s in you. Explore it too.
Always expecting black ppl to fall on our feet and worship them. Why do they only complain about the black community but never their other communities? Black people are so much more accepting and even place biracial girls above black girls sometimes. But all we get is complaints.
Agreed. I can understand the dilemma of not feeling like you fit in any one race as a biracial person, I am sympathetic to that feelin. However, I too get upset that biracial folks focus their complaints only on the Black community. The one that is the most accepting of them.
What about your White brothers and sisters who flat out reject you? Why complain about not getting a role meant for a Black woman and not complain about the same role going to a White woman? You don’t complain about Jennifer Lawrence getting the lead role over you who genetics you partially share. The answer I have gotten in the past is “well because I look Black”. No, you look like a combination of Black and White which means BOTH sides can equally be blamed for not accepting you. It’s 2017, your identity is what you decide not what was forced upon you 400 years ago.
The truth IMO is that you are more likely to be treated as “special” in the Black community. More likely to be viewed as “superior” to Black women and have more men desiring the White contribution to your looks. Whereas in the White community, your chances of being viewed as superior or more desired than a White woman is less. I have had MANY, MANY encounters of that superiority attitude (or entitlement) from some biracial women, because they are used to having that power in the Black community. It’s similar to those I face from some White women.
I agree with this assessment. Light skinned and/or biracial women (more so then men) have a lot of privilege is the black community because they are so close to white. The lighter the better is so ingrained that they are propped up and treated better. I must say I do like Zendaya because she has talked about how good she has it being biracial in the black community. It is quite frustrating though that some biracial people don’t acknowledge it and always come for the black community not excepting them while it’s more common that their other half isn’t accepting them at all.
I think the complaints about the black community occur more because there is no way in hell anyone would think she is white, or accept her as white.
SO – it would be plausible that black people would accept her as one of their own. But they dont.
It is just that always being cast out and rejected as the “other” hurts. No matter what privileges it might bring.
(no comment on the reasons why she thinks she is not as successful as she thinks she should be. I am a white eastern european gal, know many of her songs and have an impression that she is plenty successful by any standard……dunno….)
You . . . don’t know about the One-Drop Rule built out of systemic racism do you?
It’s the reason Barack Obama was always called and considered black even though he’s biracial. Because one of his parents is black and he *looks* black. Having one white parent didn’t stop the racist comments and other things said about him; and frankly, if no one knew his mother was white people would have just assumed his was black 100% based on nothing but on how he looked. So it goes for many biracial people.
Criticize the black community when you have an album coming out.Big Mistake! Big
Personally I didn’t know she was biracial until yesterday when I read her mom is white.
It’s about the music, not her racial makeup.Alicia Keyes,Mariah,Tamia,Faith Evans,KeKe Wyatt,etc are all mixed but had great success and support from black community when they put out great music.
Mariah has said, even long ago, how she grew up feeling displaced. Maybe her upbringing has something to do with all her insecurities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnyGcVk0Oo
I didn’t even know she was biracial tbh. She just looks like a light skinned black girl. Perhaps she isn’t successful because she isn’t impressive. She seems to have a huge sense of entiltement. Bey and Rih’s success didn’t happen oevr night. They have been in the game for 2 decades and a decade respectively. Did she think she would be an overnight sensation?
I’m tired of this woe-is-me attitude that some girls with lighter skin have adopted. Colourism does exist but she BENEFITS from it.
I also wonder why she is placing blame solely on the Black community if she is biracial. As far as I can tell, black people are the only ones bothering to listen to her music. Why not call out white people for not supporting you? They are half of you aren’t they?
#BeHumble
“I didn’t even know she was biracial tbh. She just looks like a light skinned black girl.!
Um…Biracial people come in many shades just like black and white people, there is no formula for what a biracial person looks like….
I’m aware. What I mean however is that she seems to think that is the reason why she isn’t successful because people don’t like that she is mixed race. Without being told many people wouldn’t have noticed. Alicia and Mariah are biracial and they have been embraced byt the black community. Clearly that isn’t her issue
That’s what you took from ElleBees’s entire comment, Alba? Um, okay. 😐
I work w 2 beautiful Indian women (born here, parents born in India). One put the slightly better looking one down by saying she was sorry the other had dark skin so she is less marriageable. I was like girl she’s gorgeous and we in America!
But damn it opened my eyes to this and was a learning experience.
Good that you got to witness this. The darker skinned lady probably has had to put up with those kind of comments all her life (probably from her own family too).
After a while it gets to you and actually makes you yourself believe that you are not as worthy.
Life-destroying stuff!
It may not matter that she is in America,I attended high school with many Indian kids and colorism is still an issue especially when comes to dating and marriage.If the darker sister wants to date or marry an Indian or Indian American guy she may still face discrimination.
My husband is African American, Native American, Japanese and Caucasian. Both his parents are a mix of two races. He has said that he has gotten jobs darker skinned men wouldn’t get and women chased him when he was single. But he also said he felt like he didn’t belong. If he was with black people, they would tease him because he was mixed and too light. But with white people, he was still considered black, no matter how light he is. He considers himself African American. But at the same time, he has felt at times like people tried to make him feel like he didn’t belong. But yes, he has definitely gotten more perks than darker skinned people.
Oh Dear God.. Honey You really are being “THIS Tragic one” really??! Colorism?? Does she demand the same support from her non supportive “white’ fanbase? Girl.. Hush you need New Management, some more schooling and a P.R Person STAT, Your problem is your management, music selection and general blandness when we have so many options, and I say this as a Person that likes 3-4 of the songs “she’s been featured on” which if we gonna be real Always hit a Million times harder than her solo stuff
Thank you! This girl needs to fire whoever advised her to throw the black community under the bus. Like who else is checking for her except us. Sigh. She needs to do better.
COME ON SAY IT! No One else even cares to put her on BUT Team Black so wtf she’s even on, Meantime her management is the one that gave final approval for them awful boots or those pics of her licking a Mini toilet, so really? Where is the correct Blame Allocation equation??
Why did this comment make me chuckle? You tell no lies…
QQ spitting straight fire as always 🔥
I specifically scrolled down to find what you had said, QQ, because I knew you would say what I was going to say.
Mariah, Alicia Keys, Drake. All biracial and in the same colorism boat as you, honey. The difference is that they put out good music (well, I personally can’t stand Drake’s music, but that’s okay). Black people are the ONLY reason this girl has any hits!
But where is the lie? You hit the nail on the head.
Yes colorism exists and it’s deeply rooted in our community… her comments are an oversimplification of it though. Colorism would actually be a reason for her success, not failure. But there are some things that don’t necessarily need to be talked about in mixed company.
Now Tinashe sis… the reason you’re not as successful as you’d like is because you don’t have IT. The It Factor. The music is bland and you don’t have much personality in interviews. There are lots of successful biracial women but the industry is jam packed with talent.. you’re feeding us dry versions of what’s already out there and wondering why we’re not biting 🤷🏽♀️
OK!? that is IT.. the IT isn’t there!, Like Moneypenny said: NO ONE HAS ISSUES WITH TEAM BIRACIAL IN MUSIC!! Especially when the vocals/catalog/fun sparkle is there
Half the Time i confuse her with Karrueche and wonder, Why is Kae being so Uncharism… Oh no no That’s Tinashe
Can I also add that in some of her interviews she puts on a bit of a “blackcent”. Like she legit reminded me of Igloo in a few of her interviews. She’s young and trying to make it, but again she needs to do better and stop trying to bite the ONLY hand that feeds her.
There are two really great documentaries on colorism in the black community. One is called “Dark Girls” and the other is “Light Girls”. I’m recommending both. They are available on YouTube.
I’m wondering if she had seen them.
Well, I’m white and I knew that. Where I’m originally from is very racially diverse. I worked at a company once where this dude (who hit on EVERY halfway attractive female, including myself LOL but I had a boyfriend) used to hit on this chick who was light-skinned black. And damned if he didn’t say, “Hey light-skin” to her all the time; it irritated *me* and I didn’t even get along with her LOL I’m sure it irritated her. But he was black too. So yeah, it’s definitely there. It amazes me the obsession everyone has with the amount of melanin in a person’s skin.
Yes, there is colorism in the black community, but this has nothing to do with her sucking as an artist, Beyonce and Rihanna would have the same issues then right?
Also, CIARA was not born fair like Beyonce…she has become fair over the last 7-8 years and is now considered more beautiful….Yes, if one is to complain it would have to be the darker girls. That sick Gilbert Arenas just recently said there are NO beautiful dark dark girls and when someone tweeted him a pic of Lupita Nyongo he said something like ewww or grossss….this is colorism girl *eye roll*
Tinashe may have been referencing being ostracized by her peers because the instant assumption is that the “thinks she’s better” and is “stuck up”. That’s most definitely a thing and when you’re young, that can be very painful. Imagine being denied friendship and camaraderie at a pivotal time in your development. Or being pursued sexually in an aggressive manner because you “look the type” aka video vixenish or some misguided fool wants you as a trophy. The fallout can shade how you perceive yourself and others for years. So let’s not pretend there’s no consequences for light skinned people at all. It’s different and not as insidious, but there’s negative consequences nonetheless. Colorism sucks for everyone.
Everyone has their trials, no matter how priviledged other people perceive them to be. If someone says that they have been hurt, or they have been ostracized, it is usually true.
We should all just hear each other out on those things and try to be more compassionate.
well said.
Okay I’m going to say one thing: being light skin & black is different from being biracial not in the black community. Colorism does exist but she’s not getting affected by it like dark skinned sisters are. There are a lot of biracial stars thriving in the black community (Kehlani, Mariah Carey, Jessie Williams, Halle Berry, etc). Tinashe just doesn’t have star power. BET, VIBe, Soultrain, Empire, Lee Daniels, Nicki Minaj- so many black people have given her HUGE opportunities. She’s not a stand out & will never thrive. Doesn’t have a identity music wise, and everytime she’s in the news she’s complaining. If a dark skinned indie artist like SZA have the no. 1 album on iTunes I don’t want to hear it. Imo she’s blaming the black community for a lack of support but I don’t see her going after the white community bc she is biracial. But it’s our jobs as black people to support & accept everyone. Sad interview: she’s gonna lose a lot of black fans which is the majority of her fanbase.
I hear what you’re saying – but you’re addressing racism from whites – Yes thats part of the reason the Halle Berrys, Jesse Williams, Salina Sotos do well – they are lighter and easier to accept amongst whites. Tinashe is talking about discrimination from darker black women. I mention “darker” because she’s having a colourism issue – another wrinkle of racism that trinkles down. Dark women do give light skin sisters a hard time sometimes JUST because they’re lighter. And I’m sure light skin girls have thrown shade toward darker women — BUT this “biracial women aren’t BLACK” ignorance is apart of the problem. It’s alienating
Everyone keeps saying that TInashes main fan base if African Americans. I very much doubt that. She is known all over the world.
Kaiser,
You’ve mentioned colourism before, AND while you’re accurate about favorism to lighter skinned women in cultures — what Tinashe is talking about — and which, no you don’t have any knowledge – not being a black woman – is that again, while there’s favoritism for light skin women, there’s a lot of ALIENATION and HATRED toward them too. And it’s MISPLACED just like Tinashe mentioned. As far as a “sisterhood” amongst black women – LIGHT SKIN women SOMETIMES have a harder time finding friendships. After all, the “sisterhood” is about being black, dark & lovely. It becomes a pack mentality- and those attributes SHOULD be celebrated but still not at the cost of someone who is a lighter shade. –this all coming from me, a biracial black woman (black & white)– who has experienced discrimination from whites & darker skinned black women.. AS WELL AS favoritism from both side (due to being mixed). As you can see it comes from different angles – mixed kids don’t know where the hate or love is going to come from.
I’m so tired of people who refuse to see how colorism negatively affects both light and dark people, especially women. Growing up i experienced the full gamut of attitudes because I look biracial. Black men, and men in general, would openly admit their preference for light skin. This didn’t make me feel pretty or superior, but embarrassed. On the flip side, darker black women were absolutely vile. All through high school and college (I went to an hbcu) dark black women made disgusting assumptions about me. Spread rumors. One girl I highschool actually brought scissors to school and cut my hair while sitting behind me in class. To price i had a weave – which i didn’t. A supposed friend told me she usually didn’t like light skinned girls but I was cool. I could go on and on. I have a friend who to this day says she thinks I’m one of the only light girls she thinks is pretty. Imagine if i said that about someone dark!
Blacks are so indoctrinated and filled with self hate. But light skin privelage doesn’t mean it’s ok to treat someone poorly because you perceive their life to be easier.
It’s happened a few times to me: “OMG, You are sooooooo dark, wow. Really dark.”
Awkward silence.
I used to feel shame, less than.
Now I just get annoyed.
I consider replying “OMG you are so stupid” but I don’t want to convey the impression that they touched a nerve bc so what if I’m so dark.
So I just nod now bc yes, I AM dark. Who cares? Do you have a problem with it?
Am I jealous of light-skinned women bc of their shade? No.
Do I resent when light-skinned people made an issue and point out my dark skin? Yes, it bugs me. I don’t know why.
Maybe it be the same if I stared at a woman’s chest and declared “OMG, your breasts are huuuuuuuuuge. Big. I mean, really big.”
I’m thinking maybe she wouldn’t like that?
“Insinuating that she’s the victim of colorism is like Jessica Biel saying that she’s a victim of being too pretty. That’s not really a thing. The real victims of colorism are the darker-skinned women whose skin color is associated with lower education, lower class, lower intelligence and fewer opportunities”
Yes Yes and Yes!