The British network ITV has done a documentary marking the twenty years since Princess Diana’s passing. Quotes and stories have been dripping out for weeks, so we already knew that the documentary had the approval of Prince William and Prince Harry, both of whom sat down together to reminisce about their mum. There’s a surprising intimacy to this conversation, and it feels at times like it’s “too much.” You know why? It’s because William and Harry rarely just sit down and talk about their mother just in the context of talking about their mother. They usually talk about her in relation to other things or people or causes, or they use her passing as a cudgel to beat the press. At one point, William says that this is the last time they’ll ever do anything like this, because… well, it’s been twenty years and obviously they need to move on. Here are some quotes from both princes about their mom (you can read more extensive coverage here at The Telegraph):
The last phone conversation they had with their mom: “At the time Harry and I were running around minding our own business, you know, playing with our cousins and having a very good time,” he said. Prince Harry continued: “As a kid I never enjoyed speaking to my parents on the phone. And we spent far too much time speaking on the phone rather than speaking to each other, because of just the way the situation [the divorce] was. And the phone rang and off he [William] went to go and speak to her sort of for five minutes.” The Duke said: “And I think Harry and I were just in a desperate rush to say goodbye, you know, see you later and we’re going to go off. If I’d known now obviously what was going to happen I wouldn’t have been so blasé about it and everything else. But that phone call sticks in my mind quite, quite heavily.”
Harry on the phone call and his regrets: “It was her speaking from Paris. I can’t really necessarily remember what I said, but all I do remember is probably, you know, regretting for the rest of my life how short the phone call was. And if I’d known that that was the last time I was going to speak to my mother the things I would have said to her. Looking back on it now, it’s incredibly hard. I have to sort of deal with that for the rest of my life. Not knowing that that was the last time I was going to speak to my mum, and how differently that conversation would have panned out if I’d had even the slightest inkling that her life was going to be taken that night.”
William on how they won’t be opening up about Diana again: “We won’t be doing this again. We won’t speak as openly and publicly about her again, because we feel that hopefully this film will provide the other side: from her closest family and friends, that you might not have heard before, from those who knew her best, and those who want to protect her memory and want to remind people of the person she was. The warmth, the humour, and what she was like as a mother. Harry and I feel very strongly that we want to celebrate her life, and this is a tribute from her sons to her.”
William on how Diana would have been as a grandmother: Saying he is “constantly” mentioning “Granny Diana” at home, he has also mounted more photographs so that Prince George and Princess Charlotte learn about her. “It’s hard because obviously Catherine didn’t know her, so she cannot really provide that level of detail. So I do regularly put George or Charlotte to bed, talk about her and just try and remind them that there are two grandmothers – there were two grandmothers – in their lives.” Asked how she would be like had she lived to enjoy the next stage of her family life, he added: “She’d be a nightmare grandmother, absolute nightmare. She’d love the children to bits, but she’d be an absolute nightmare. She’d come and go and she’d come in probably at bath time, cause an amazing amount of scene, bubbles everywhere, bathwater all over the place and then leave. I want to make as much time and effort with Charlotte and George as I can because I realise that these early years particularly are crucial for children, and having seen, you know, what she did for us.”
William on feeling his mother’s presence at his wedding: “When it came to the wedding, I did really feel that she was there… there were times I looked to someone or something for strength – and I very much felt she was there for me. They always live with you, people you lose, like that. And my mother lives with me every day.”
I often think of the What-Ifs of Diana, the alternate-timeline, alternate history of the royal family if Diana had survived that trip with Dodi Fayed. I don’t think she would have stayed with Dodi, obviously. I don’t think she would have gotten back with Hasnat Khan either. But she would have moved on and fallen in love with someone, perhaps even remarried. Mostly, I wonder what Diana would have made of the Middletons, and whether Diana would have shut them down early on in William and Kate’s relationship. I don’t think Diana would have approved of Kate, quite honestly. And I definitely don’t think Diana would have approved of Carole Middleton.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Eh I don’t like what if speculations so I won’t make any. However it’s good that this will be the last time (publically) they will do this. I doubt it will be the last time in private because I don’t ever think you get over the loss of a parent. Esp one as involved as Diana was. Esp now that you’re a parent yourself. Brings up old wounds. If talking about her to his kids gives him comfort then I can’t even find fault in that
Completely agree, none of us knew Diana. And those that claim to all have pretty differing takes on her!
yea i think that’s normal as well. Part of grief is maybe overestimating or underestimating a person’s character depending on your ties to them. pretty common and memories are a funny thing
My mom died before my nephews were born, and the grandparents (her parents) were gone, too, obviously. But from the time they arrived the boys knew they were each named for them: one has the name of his maternal great-grandfather, with his middle name starting with the first letter of my mom’s name (in her memory), and one is named for his paternal great-grandfather-as his grandfather is still alive-and his middle name begins with a letter in memory of his paternal great-grandmother. There are pictures up, and we always made reference to them, esp. when we see mannerisms pop up in the kids (they claim it as someone they can blame for the behavior lol).
They always enjoyed hearing the stories, even now, at 17 and 19. It’s comforting to us, as well 😊
I definitely do not believe Diana would have approved of the Middletons. She would have Jackie-O’d them in a heartbeat.
Def would not have allowed the Middletons the wide berth they have been given by Charles and Co.
I think the reason the Middleton clan came for Kates ride is because William both needed and wanted them there. They are clearly a surrogate family. The place where he goes for love and warmth, which is why he is with them at the big holidays. I don’t think he would have needed that hearth and home feeling as much had Diana been alive. They just wouldn’t have had an opening.
I do sometimes think it’s interesting that all of the Diana ‘what-if’ing does ignore the fact that she wouldn’t have magically stopped suffering her eating disorders and mental health issues had the crash not happened. It’s very macabre, I know, but she may not have ended up meeting the Middletons, car crash or no.
Eating disorders and mental illness (which I’m not really convinced of) don’t mean you aren’t a loving mother. She was obviously a really strong loving presence in her kids lives.
By all accounts she had overcome the eating disorder and publicly discussing it was a good guard against relapse. Relapse occurs in the shame afterall. People overstate the “mental health issues”. She had emotional dysregulation which is extremely common and is rarely pathologised. Its simply referred to as a “high strung” personality. She also had what appears to have been situational depression because when she finally took back the reigns of her life, it seemed to fade. In any case her openness about these common struggles tells us that she had the personal insight to seek help when she struggled. Dont fall for that “crazy beyoch” narrative the badger pronce and his cohorts keep selling to delegitimize her very existence. Her own children say she was a fantastic mother and that 20 years on they continue to struggle with her absense.
I don’t think Diana was crazy, but I think she had somewhat jealous tendencies in her youth (like how she was jealous of the nannies). Maybe she would have outgrown that, but if they remained, I’m wondering how she would have reacted to any woman who became a permanent fixture in Kate’s life.
I’m not sure how much of Diana’s weaknesses were exacerbated by the presence of Camilla though. I know I wouldn’t have reacted well to her, and I don’t consider myself insane or anything like that.
My take is that the Middletons made Wills feel warm and welcomed. So he would not need Kate if he had his mum.
I liked Diana, cos she was thrown into that family and managed to find her way out. She became a person sth Kate will never be able to do.
I still think there is more to her death than just an accident…
Diana was not wearing her seatbelt and the guy who did wear his survived. There is no conspiracy here. People who don’t wear seat belts die in most accidents. It’s why they were added to all cars.
Agree L84Tea.
Diana became a master manipulator, especially when it came to using the press to advance her own agenda.
That isn’t to say that she wasn’t a loving mother, but she had myriad personal issues that she was dealing with, and in my opinion, that can cause enormous, if unintended, collateral damage.
It’s hard to deny that the Middletons give William something he’s hungry for: a family life. But I do believe that the Middleton’s close family would have been perceived as a toxic threat to Diana, who, paradoxically, appeared to have been starving for the same thing.
I think she would have used the press, and any other tactic available, to fend off the threat of Kate and her family to Diana’s central position in William’s life.
It would have been a real brawl. It would have been a Lollapalooza !!
This interview was definitely more open than I expected. And yes, sometimes it felt a bit much. One interesting point was made: the boys hadn’t seen their mother in over a month when she died. Is this an aristocracy thing? Have you CB mommas ever gone a month without seeing your kids? Because I freak when I have to do work week trips, but that’s just me perhaps. It surprised me a bit, what with her resources.
I don’t think that was unusual for the British Royal Family, though, as William noted, the divorce undoubtedly made things even more complicated.
I don’t have a problem with anything he said. I lost a parent as a teenager and much of what he says resonates.
As for whether or not Diana would like the Middletons, I suspect not but I suspect she would have disliked anyone who took the attention off of her. She was a very good princess in many ways but it is also pretty clear she manipulated the media to project the image she wanted to project and I suspect she would have felt threatened by anyone vying for both her son’s affection and the media attention.
My husband lost both his parents when he was 8. He talks about them at various milestones, like our wedding–wondering about what they would do or say. William sounds very normal here.
I hate to say this, but I can’t help but recall that the month leading up to her death was a whirlwind relationship with Dodi. They were seen all over on his yacht and other places. The tabloids were going nuts because it was her first public relationship since Charles. So while yes, she was an adult and absolutely had a right to live her life, it does make me a bit sad to think that she hadn’t seen her sons in over a month because she was busy doing other stuff. I understand they went to a boarding school, but it still feels sad. 🙁
When I was little, I went without seeing my mother for a month. Almost every summer, I would visit my grandmother, aunts and uncles who lived in another part of the country. I was an elementary school kid. I don’t think it’s that weird. I think our culture of child rearing has changed.
My daughter went to summer sleepaway camp for 1 month, her choice. I know many people who send their kids for 6-8 weeks.
The month long absence was because the boys were with their father, on the annual Balmoral break. Diana had them for the month of July.
Exactly right. I remember this well. Also remember the mention of last phone call with William at time of her death. It was reported William was asking Diana to speak with Harry for some reason because William felt Harry needed that. It is very sad remembering this as a random person so I can on,y imagine what their feelings were that summer and that phone call importance.
That sounds pretty normal to me. My mom and dad divorced when my sister and I were young, and my dad moved out of state for a big job opportunity. Every summer, my sister and I would spend a whole month at our dad’s house, and my poor mom would get a break from being a single parent. Worked out great.
The what-ifs if Diana had lived are tough. I’m sure a lot would be different, but it is what it is. My mom was killed in a car accident when I was in grad school, and it was absolutely devastating, and there were times when I felt like I would have literally given up my limbs to have her back. But six years on, I know that my life, one that I like, would be different if she had lived. I wouldn’t be with my current boyfriend, I wouldn’t have my pets, I probably wouldn’t have the job I love, because a lot of decisions I made in the wake of her death and in the midst of terrible grief are what got me to where I am now. It’s weird to think about.
If you send your kids to boarding school, that’s 8-9 months of the year that you don’t see them consistently.
Most schools, particularly the ones that cater to 8-12 age range are week boarders ie the kids go home every weekend.
For William and Harry, who were sent to board at 8yrs of age, they will have been used to not seeing their parents for most of the year by the time they were 15 and 12.
In terms of this divorce, Diana had spent July with the boys, and August was their father’s turn.
She was at a loose end for august, so might as well go on holiday.
That 6- or 7- week summer vacation to Balmoral is sacrosanct for the royal family. So given the timing of her death, and the princes’ ages at the time, I’m not surprised they’d not seen each other in a month.
This interview made me look ay diana differently as a mother. She hadnt seen her kids in a month before she died. Wtf? I know upper class parenting is different and i know the kids were older and in boarding schools but again wtf??
Ive got 2 little ones, i cant imagine… but im a pleb i guess.
She just comes across flighty, eccentric and a bit self absorbed in their stories. Like she was great fun when she was around, very present, but then she was gone.
The BRF goes to Scotland for the month of August, and that was Charles summer time with his sons. Diana had taken them on a well publicized vacation earlier that summer.
Say what you will about her, and there is a lot to say, but this was completely in line with the boys summer schedule and the Wales divorce agreement.
@Suze, thanks for clarifying .
This is not just an aristocracy thing. It is not unusual in families where there is a divorce. Especially if the parents don’t live in the same state. I had a friend that lived with one parent during the school year and then would go spend the summer with the other parent.
They were 12 and 15. I know lots of kids who go to camp for several weeks over the summer at that age.
My sister an I went on sort of a “camp” vacation (it was a farm, basically) without our parents for 3 weeks when we were 11/13 respectively. There were lots of kids our age. It’s not really all that outrageous. We loved it.
I went to camp for four weeks every summer from age 8 -14. It was the highlight of my year.
No, please don’t dump on a mother whose child(ren) are gone for holidays with their father. This happens in divorced families. My parents split and my mother had primary custody. Legally, my dad got us every Sunday and for a month in the summer. Violating that agreement could have spelled trouble for my mother. Perhaps it was like that for Diana. I don’t judge her, nor other moms who send their kids off to school.
BTW, I begged to be sent to boarding school. My mom hated the idea, but let me go anyway. Longest year of my life, then I begged to come home. 😉
Its royal thing. No one asked her what she wanted or even what their father wanted.
My friend works abroad and twice a year her daughter is with her father for a month and over 2 months during summer. Its divorce deal.
I never deeply thought of it before William probably got w the middletons bc carol fills his mother figure need. She’s strong, dominant. He may have been attracted to another women and family type if Diana had lived. Bc Diana would have wanted to remain dominant.
I suspect that he would have found it difficult to find a partner. It would have been a challenge for any woman, who likely would not want to compete with Diana and I have a feeling she would have expected both her sons to put her needs first. Still, it is a tragedy to lose a loving parent so young and I can’t help but feel for both of them.
And from every account, Carole Middleton admired Diana tremendously. So she gives the family life he craves, and also supports and encourages conversation about his mother. And doesn’t have to compete with her either! If Diana were alive, and even if he married Kate, the Middletons would not be as involved as they are now, I think.
Whether that’s viewed as a positive or negative (I actually think positive from an emotionally caring side of things) depends on how you view the involved parties.
I mock the idea that Middletons are “typical middle class” but I agree that Carole M provides that family structure that William perceives as warm and middle class. There is nothing wrong with it, either. ‘
I actually admire the balancing act that Carole maintains between propping up Party Pieces, striving for a position among the aristocracy, and catering to Williams need for that warm family environment. That’s three full time jobs there.
I agree, Suze. I’m not a fan of Carole Middleton from what I’ve seen, but she and Michael certainly seems to have created a close knit family and included inlaws. At least I assume Terribly Rich James is included. We’ll have to see with Donna Air. That’s the one I’m waiting for!
I can honestly see where Kate’s family was probably a big attraction to him. I personally lost my mother unexpectedly at 16 and still feel her loss painfully 22 years later. Without her around, my family kinda sucks sometimes. We just don’t reach out to one another, we don’t spend much time together. We don’t have that close family that I always wished we had. Hell, I have 2 children–a 2 and 4 year old–and my oldest sister has only ever met my oldest once at 8 months old. My husband on the other hand has a family who gather quite often, aunt and uncles and cousins and all, and really value one another and enjoy spending time together. I will admit, that alone was a huge bonus for me when I married him because I now feel like I have the big happy family that I still can’t seem to get within my own.
I had no childhood and my son’s dad had seven siblings. You get to know them, the married in ones, and even the in-law’s parents and siblings in most cases. I loved it, it was incredible. Even after being split up for 2 decades, most of them still welcome me. (there’s one or two in every family)
Weren’t they in Scotland with Charles when she died? I feel like I read that at the time but I can’t recall now. ETA meaning that I could see it being a month if they had been in Scotland with the RF for a long time by that point, since the queen usually goes for an extended holiday over the summer.
anyway I’m sure their schedule with their parents was fairly unique, with the combination of royalty and divorce. I imagine without the divorce it would have been different. I wonder how much time they spent around Charles after Diana’s death. Like I wonder how much Charles was around or how much they were just at one of his houses with staff.
I tend to think that for his personal needs, William used his mother to pick the opposite in the Middletons. And judging by their final summer and phonecall, i think Diana, like Charles, would have been set aside for the Middletons. Unlike Charles, i don’t think Diana would have let it go. She would have made it very difficult indeed for the Middletons which might have made it harder for them to join the royals no matter their determination.
In terms of the differences as i speculate William sees them, Diana was a star, a charmer, a drama Queen, a workaholic, a busy person in lots of ways with a million things on her plate. For all her victimhood, she was willful, a risk taker, difficult and refused to be put in a corner or be pushed around.
Kate is the opposite of that in every way. Not a star, not a charmer, not a drama Queen, not a busy person, has only one focus – William, is demonstratively willing to drop everything to be at William’s beck and call, is quiet and compliant, will never be difficult or take risks.
So William chose the opposite for a quiet life of no strife which panders to his needs in every way. Something that was missing from his life.
I think this is very true.
That sounds pretty spot on!
That’s a good take, LAK. I just talked about it above. Now I’m going have to rethink what I just said! I think I still stand by it, but you just put a different flavor on it.
Yeah I think you’ve nailed it.
@Lak, an interesting take. Makes a lot of sense.
@ lak if you remember video of william when he playing in the garden, also when he playing at the piano he wanted all diana attention and i think she said fine i am playing with harry. I just think that’s William, personality and kate not having a job or not having star power i think she just want to please william.
Agree. She did suck all the attention up and was selective in where and who or when she would give her own attention to someone. Those boys needed stability to inherit and capably fulfill their royal duties. I can hardly believe I’m saying this but i think it’s true.
I’m still sad tho about how Diana was used and abused.
I don’t object to anything they said or to any way any person wants to deal with grief.
That said, I’m British enough to find the whole interview a bit distasteful, if I’m honest. Let the woman rest in peace and let’s all give up with the prurient rehashing of her death.
If this is a one and done, I will be fine with it. They may be trying to get ahead of the cheesy “Diana has been DEAD twenty years” specials sure to turn up at the end of August.
Well see if f they are still talking about this in ten years.
I hope so. Because I won’t be adding to the viewing figures of any Diana Specials.
Content of this interview is fine by me. It’s doing the interview that isn’t fine, you know?
I am totally with you, Sixer. I’m finding it all a bit much.
Same here.
I understand that it can be seen as distasteful. I think the only reason that the Princes did this rehashing at all is to combat the recent books and articles on Charles, Camilla, and Diana in which Diana gets trashed while the other two are highlighted as an epic love story. Also,I do think this is a conscious effort to stop the Royal Family from erasing Diana completely.
In short, I think this is just two men publically speaking up for their mother because she can’t anymore. Everyone else involved is still here and able to write or re-write history as it suits them. While I think they would rather not have to defend her, I’m glad that they are willing to.
I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who has lost a parent little less so young. Having lost both of mine, I feel a kinship with others that have suffered the loss. There really is nothing as life-altering particularly if you were close.
Pity the boys let the Diana foundation shutter its doors.
You know the best way not to erase Diana entirely? Continue her hard work on various causes.
Agreed. I know we all crack jokes on the princes all the time, but this is one area that I truly feel for them.
Agree with you. As I’ve posted before, I speculate the trashing of their mothers memory has caused some tension with Charles behind the scenes as well, how could it not?
But it’s not a soap opera, Tulip. At some point, the last word has been said. And I think it was said some years ago. For everyone like you, who says that this is a response to public stuff about Chuck and Camilla, there’s another who says they’re only doing it to distract us from how useless they are at their jobs. Because what it’s actually about is a media that wants viewing figures, column inches, comments and clicks and isn’t bothered about inciting public prurience to get them.
Diana has been dead for twenty years. She’s been hashed and rehashed in every prurient way possible and, in the end, a line should be drawn. I really do find it distasteful now.
Yes, I see the differing viewpoints which is essentially what you and I have. I do agree that it best if Diana is allowed to rest in peace if for no other reason then the last word will be had by her via her children. Their relative youth in comparison to everyone else will assure that in the end they will be the writer’s of Diana’s legacy. As it always is the “winner” gets to write the history books and right now that’s Queen Elizabeth and much more so, Prince Charles.
It’s not even that you and I think differently, you know? As I said above, I don’t object to anything the Windsor boys said in this interview. I just object to the interview being conducted in the first place.
@Sixer, there is a part of me that objects to the interview having been done at all, too. I guess I just lean toward understanding how it is that you want someone (in their case, the public) to know and appreciate your deceased loved one as you did. Maybe, it shouldn’t matter to them but obviously it does.
I am an incredibly private, almost too much so, person so I get and feel the cringe factor too.
Its unbelievable to me that anybody would object to this. How cold. Theres been a constant barrage of anti Diana propaganda from persons linked to their father and his wife for years. The “angel Camilla; poor Charlie; devil Diana” book that just came out is written by a woman who was photographed on an overseas trip with Camilla just last year. How do you think that feels for these guys? To know that your father and his wife are actively working to trash your mothers legacy?
The beauty of this is that its coming from HBO. It will hit a far wider target audience than their fathers and wifes surreptitious slandering. And it will live longer than a silly book destined for the bargain bin. Game over. Not that C and C wont keep at this disgusting game.
Dem – you’re deliberately misunderstanding. It’s not about Bill and Harry. It’s not about Chuck and Camilla. Truth be told, I don’t have a side in this tiresome, twenty-year-old soap opera. I’m only interested in the BRF as an institution, not a celebrity circus. I think ITV is the distasteful party here.
Then call me unbelievable because I also think it’s a bit much. It’s not even August yet!
Diana needs no honoring, nor do we need to be reminded that she was remarkable. Her work stands on its own.
“As it always is the “winner” gets to write the history books and right now that’s Queen Elizabeth and much more so, Prince Charles.”
Both Queen Elizabeth and Prince Charles do their charity work, so in that sense I think they will command some level of respect.
I think Diana is also respected, despite whatever is written about her.
Each of them has their place in history as people who did what was required of them work-wise.
William and Harry will always garner sympathy because they lost their mother, but I think their parents’ legacies will stand on their own, and the sons will be seen as lazy people who had hard-working enough parents who got trapped in a bad situation by unusual circumstances.
I’m laughing so hard at that. Don’t be mad at me but yeah, that is SO British. 😉
I only lived in the UK for 6 months but I recognize the attitude. And people say Germans are cold. I think not. I do hope this is a one-off and I honestly believe it will be. It really isn’t their fault that until now, they had to endure 20 years of (sometimes revisionist) history written about their mother. It must’ve been hell.
I find it a bit much how William talks about her, he’s obviously put her on a massive pedestal but then again, he is talking about her as a mother, not as a public figure or wife or Princess of Wales. Harry sounds a bit more subdued and like he’s had to actually examine the entire process of grieving much more than his brother.
Off topic: I laugh every time William tries to foist “Catherine” on us. Does anyone call her that?
Haha. Mr Sixer spent a lot of his time in the army stationed in Germany – near Hamburg. He spent time off either with Germans or across the border with Danes. If you ask him even now, years later, he will say the thing he misses most is the directness and bluntness of both nationalities. None of this more said by not saying anything stuff. And one of the reasons he first liked me was that I was more like that than most Britishers. Clearly, not entirely like that! You made me laugh too, m’dear!
The Catherine thing is SO passive aggressive about something SO trivial, ain’t it?
I don’t understand it at all, does SHE even care when people call her Kate? Honestly, it’s a lovely name, why the insistence on Catherine? He’s such a conundrum to me, that one. Like a stuffy, controlling manchild.
I have to say, Northern Germans are a so different than people from the Rhineland for example (where I’m from) and again so different from Bavarians etc. I guess it’s not unique to Germany but whenever someone says “Oh I I know Germany, I lived in Munich for a while.” I think “Yeah, they’re weird.” Probably very very similar to the UK. Feels like different countries sometimes. But I guess overall and especially compared to Brits we are quite blunt. One thing we do not have is a stiff upper lip.
I think HE thinks it’s more um… stately?! I also think it makes him look daft, constantly pushing it.
Mr Sixer is an open sort, so he completely fails at all the stuff that VeryBritishProblems Twitter accounts takes the mickey out of. I think that’s why he loved Germans and Danes so much. If they said something, that’s what they meant. No translation required!
He might be one of those people who likes calling people by their full names as a form of affection. I do it.
Willie also said in this interview he would never dress his kids in the type of silly clothes his mother chose for him and his bro. WTF, is he ignoring the various parade of replicas waity and ma Karole have single white male’d and put george in?????? God he talks chite sometimes.
Is she with you telling you to work, Willy?
*crickets*
Lol
in all honesty, i don’t think wm. is a mentally stable person. even with cameras rolling and his game face on, he always seems to be just one step away from completely losing it, and seems to struggle with about 90% of his existence here on earth both despite and because of all his notoriety and wealth. he is truly a troubled man and i do feel sincerely sorry for him and harry regarding diana. i think we can all agree she was not a stable woman and i firmly believe that many of her mental instabilities were genetic and have sadly been inherited in wm’s case. it’s highly possible that if he were to become the ‘work horse’ that diana was, we’d be seeing a male version of diana playing out in the media. he would be a nightmare, constantly lashing out publicly and pulling stunts on a much grander scale than what we see now. the constant reassuring presence of the middletons and his lack of princely duties might be the best way to contain his mental health issues in the long run. being born a prince was the worst thing that could’ve happened to a man such as he. the time may come where abdicating might not be a choice in his case, but a necessity.
That just made me sad, especially how he went into detail about how she’d be as a grandmother…
What I don’t get is how Diana would have been so involved with the kids and they talk to the kids about her all the time, yet Charles by many accounts hardly sees his grandkids.
I hope this decision isn’t one that William will regret some day, when it’s too late.
I think Mothers are usually (not always!!) closer. And let’s face it, even though it’s put out that H & W “like” Camilla, I’d bet a LOT that there is residual resentment/dislike because of her part in his parents’ divorce. Don’t forget, William is the one who pushed tissues under the bathroom door to a crying Diana. He was definitely old enough to know what was going on, even if Harry wasn’t (or he shielded Harry, as an older sibling will do).
Kids do what they need to do to survive. I’m sure they weren’t emotionally wanting to alienate their only living tampon…er…parent.
Having lost both of my parents, to hear him imagining how she would be and what she would do….that’s all he has. Every life event affects you (wedding, birth of children, graduations, etc). It breaks my heart that all he can do is dream and I think it was pretty brave of him to share those feelings (I know that I tend to not share my thoughts this way about my parents because it either makes people feel uncomfortable or people think that I should just move on. But when a parent is gone, you can never completely move on.)
Kaiser – I agree with your point, that had Diana lived, I don’t think she would have gotten back together with Hasnat. He seemed so against it. To see him at the funeral and how hard he cried, in hindsight, he would have chosen differently I am sure. Charles is the father of her sons, but I think Hasnat was her deepest love.
Obviously there is a lot of history there, but I found it interesting that he emphasized the kids having 2 grandmothers. What do they call Camilla? Does she see the kids when Charles sees them? Or only for formal events?
We made the executive decision to consider step-parents grandparents- even though my husband did not have a step-dad until he was in his 30s and he would never consider him “dad”. (I suppose it helps that we like the guy and there is no bad blood.)
For our kids, they never knew any different.. so it just made sense to call him Grandpa. So our kids have 3 grandfathers. When they are older they will understand the difference better… but in our minds, it was one more person to love and spoil the kids with grandfatherly affection.
My heritage is such that you have lots of grannies and parental figures.
If i sat down and thought about my blood relatives, it would be only a handful, but as far as ‘relatives’ are concerned, it’s an entire village or town.
To that end i have 6 grandmothers on my mother’s side and 6 grandfathers. A mixture of grandparental siblings and or their friends. We don’t distinguish. All are referred to as grannie or grandpa.
As for the parental generation…..i’ve lost count of how many ‘aunties’ and ‘uncles’ i have. Strictly, i know which ones are blood relations and by what degree, but if i dare address a friend of the family as anything less than auntie or uncle, there would be consequences.
Ditto cousins, nieces, nephews.
All my mother and father’s siblings are also my mothers and fathers and referred to as such though we distinguish them by calling them mamma and pappa rather than mummy or daddy.
Further, we do not acknowledge step- relations. Infact, no word to denote such a relationship. If we acknowledge it, we use the english word. And everyone assumes you must have an irreconcilable falling out to call someone a ‘step- relation’ publicly or privately. It’s considered a slap in the face of unforgivable proportions caused by unforgivable behaviour on the part of the step-relation. No respect is given to the so-named step relation.
I had a hard time explaining this to my english friends because they kept referring to step-relations infront of my family. And i had to repeatedly explain to my family that this was the english way and not meant as an insult nor was there bad blood in the family.
Yeah thats common in polygamous societies. But thats not whats happening here. The context here is that he makes the children aware of their grandma Diana.
Dem: We are not a polygamous society. Please don’t make that assumption based on the ignorant notion that including the entire village in the family structure means we must be.
The western model of family isn’t the only way nor does it mean that the only alternative is polygamy. I’m sure my comment makes it very clear that i’m discussing siblings at every generational level NOT inlaws, plus people who live in our ancestral lands aka the village.
Further, i understand the context of William’s dilemma. I was adding a note to say that in my heritage, this sort of dilemma would never occur unless there was an ergregious reason for it. And cheating wouldn’t be considered a good reason.
I have a friend from Cameroon, and in her family there are no such people as in-laws. Her DIL is her daughter, her sister-in-law is her sister etc. I find that really nice.
Exactly Maria.
One of my cousins married an American lady who took awhile to adjust to all of us calling her our sister and the mothers/ aunties/ uncles calling her daughter especially when it happened in company and she was introduced as such. Without the qualifier that she was an in-law.
It also took her sometime to understand that calling any of her relations ‘step-relations’ no matter the technical truth of such a description, was being interpreted as her being on very bad terms with those she described thus.
I am of the opinion that the boys are not that close to Camilla. They appreciate that she makes Charles happy, but that is as far as it goes. She made their mother unhappy, and I’m pretty sure they feel she had a part to play in the breakdown of the marriage. I’m not saying it did, but it could be their perception. Anyway Camilla has five grandchildren of her own, she doesn’t need more. But Charles should be allowed more access to them.
I agree with all of this. Unfortunately, the one person that Prince Charles couldn’t do without was the one person that almost assured a rift, even if subtle, with his sons. I don’t think they feel a sense of family at the Wales, more a sense of relation if that makes sense. The duty and some affection without the ease and warmth of ideal homes.
Did anybody else get creeped out by the fact that camilla was the 2nd witness at willies wedding? I mean, there were lots of other relatives who could have stod in. His mother would have turned in her grave at that choice.
I’m pregnant at the moment and this is causing me anxiety. My father has a partner I don’t get on with. She played a similar role as Camilla – she was a family friend/acquaintance for years before she and my Dad got involved in an affair, resulting in a complete shit-show tearing two families apart. It all happened relatively recently. They’re both still denying any responsibility, claiming things had to be done that way and they had no choice. Dad and I have a fragile relationship now, we stay in touch and that’s basically it. I do want him to be present in my kid’s life as a grandfather, but I hate the thought of my child thinking of his partner as something akin to a grandmother. I will do everything I can not to transfer my bitterness to my child, but I still dread having to play family with them.
If Camilla and Charles have any decency, they don’t expect his sons to consider Camilla anything more than Charles’s second wife in terms of family. I don’t think they owe her any inclusion in their inner family circle, or any titles such as grandmother.
My father-in-law (himself a difficult, self absorbed person) was married to a woman none of us could stand. He didn’t make it a priority to see us, and we felt the same way in return-we lived on opposite sides of the country. If they had lived closer or cared about seeing us, it would have been much more difficult. My kids called her by her first name-and I certainly never referred to her as their grandmother or encouraged a relationship with her. (Luckily she had her own grandchildren to focus on.) Their grandmothers are my husband’s mom, and my mother.
My mother did not like my grandfather’s second wife. There was no scandal; her mother died 6 years before he remarried. But my mother didn’t like her anyway (she and her mother were very close), and we were not allowed to call her granny. We had to call her auntie and we weren’t particularly encouraged to have a relationship with her either.
I find it sad now; didn’t know better than. She might have been a lovely woman; I’ll never know. This is to say, from where I sit I think it would have been nice if I could have made my own decision about whether she was a nice woman or not.
If you can take the high road here, for your children’s sake I would take it. I can certainly see how that might be difficult or impossible for you right now, but think about it down the road. That might be a bit easier.
I think your anxiety is a good indication that you need to handle this in a wY that doesn’t give you anxiety. High road be damned. This sounds like it was a deliberately selfish and hurtful situation so I don’t fault your feelings. Teach your children truths in life, as far as you think that’s not fear inducing for them.
My best to you and your family. Do what’s right for you and your own kids.
My mum lost her’s when she was 16 and her father remarried some years later. So my mum’s stepmother has been in my life since my birth. I love her as a grandmother, and she has certainly behaved like one, but she has never been referred to as abuela (grandmother) out of respect for my actual maternal grandmother. However she IS my grandmother in all but name.
I am so sick of the deification of Diana! I am remembering interviews about the divorce and always thought it was horrible that she made those young boys continue to have to reassure her that they would take care of her. She wasn’t protecting them if they were having to slide notes under her bathroom door promising she would be okay. I smell parental alienation on her part.
I don’t get it either . I remember the months before her death, the media scrutinize the tremendous amounts she spent on gym, hairdresser, clothes, trying to paint her as vain. And then a 180° turn, Diana the saint. I think that the truth, as often, is more nuanced than that.
That being said, had she lived, I feel that she would have gone Jackie O. Being on her 2nd or 3rd billionnaire husband/companion, another socialite with too many facelifts .
Diana made the boys reassure her… ? This is news to me. I’ll google. Wow.
I get the feeling this special was rubber stamped the Monday morning after the Dad-dancing pictures from France were released.
These endless dedications, memorials and remembrances really make me feel for Charles. My kids also lost their father during their later teen years and while they didn’t have a particularly close relationship he was their father and they loved him. Or maybe they loved the thought of him, the thought of what could’ve been? As the surviving parent, who tried to so hard to comfort and support them through their grief, I can say that the beautiful poems dedicated to their dad, the memorial tattoos, the naming of the grandchild after their dad, kind of hurt a bit. Of course, I would never say anything to my, now adult, children about this but as the years go on and the tributes continue I’m left to wonder do I have to die to get some recognition?
I’m not saying that Charles was a perfect parent, I know I certainly wasn’t but I just hope that William and Harry, in a rush to canonize their mother don’t forget that they have another parent who loves them very much and I am sure tried to do the best he could under what must have been incredibly difficult circumstances.
I totally agree. I feel sorry for Charles-clearly William doesn’t prioritize having his children spend time with him. And this program certainly won’t do anything to help their relationships with him. I’m sorry you feel like perhaps your children don’t recognize what you’ve done for them. I would guess that because you’ve always been there, they don’t even realize that you would appreciate some visible recognition.
Hi Ann,
In my more reflective moments I understand that my children love me and appreciate all that I’ve done for them over the years and I usually don’t need or want any big, visible recognition but all this talk about Sainted Diana, while saying nothing about Charles has me feeling a bit sad for him and a bit bothered by William and Harry. Thanks for understanding.
I’m sorry your children had to live that. And I hope they got all the space they needed to memorialise their dad without any guilt trips. As for these two, I think those annual father son photo ops were just that. I think they connected with him on the outdoor stuff but not on an emotional level. As a man but not as a father. I mean when they both say that they never fully dealt with the loss until they were adults, and that they had to seek professional help, thats a major indictment on Charles as a father. When they say that they could only discuss her between the two of them, thats beyond tragic. I dont feel sorry for Charles. He wouldn’t be in this boat had he cultivated deeper intimacy.
Lauri, I was always struck by Barack Obama’s preface to his book about his dad in which he mentions his mother’s unexpected illness and death by saying, “I think sometimes that had I known she would not survive her illness, I might have written a different book – less a meditation on the absent parent, more celebration of the one who was the single constant in my life.” Yes, sometimes we forget to honor our loved ones before the eulogy.
Hi Ramona, thanks for your kind words. No, my kids don’t need to pack their bags for guilt trips, my mother did that tons with me and I don’t believe in doing that to my children. 🙂 Actually, this is the first time ever that I’ve expressed my feelings about being the surviving parent to anyone and will never express these thoughts to my kids. I guess all the news and such about this documentary has stirred up things that I haven’t thought about in quite some time.
Thanks Carol for sharing that lovely quote, it brought tears to my eyes!! Yes, it is better to say what you feel now rather than at the eulogy.
Lauri,
I’m sure your sons appreciate that you picked up the pieces after their father died.Things like naming the first grandchild after him is a nice tribute. My son wore his dad’s shoes, watch, and tie at his own wedding as a way of including his late father who had died when he was 14.
I know how hard it must have been for you, and it must have been hard for Charles after Diana too.
I found Diana so charismatic and still read articles about her. However, I can’t stand her sons. I just don’t think Wills or Harry interesting, particularly Wills. Too entitled, spoiled, self important, lazy. Won’t be watching their special on Diana.
How do you find the interview here in the U.S.? I was looking for it everywhere. Does anyone have a link to the interview? Thanks!
I found it on Directv (I set it to record so I don’t remember the station), so I imagine most television providers will have it.
HBO is airing the documentary tonight I believe.
Got it. Thank you 🙂
I saw a preview this morning expecting it to live up to the hype, but it was the same canned “safe” revelations we’ve always had.
What else can they say, but the truth? surely, they can’t make it prurient, like a soap opera, just to keep people interested?
William probably would have been attracted to someone else other than Carole Middleton and her chocolate treats on his pillow if Diana hadn’t died.
I think Diana might have approved of a young freshly-university-graduated Kate when they would have met. She would have seen a well-educated sporty girl from a seemingly stable middle class family.
But as soon as Diana would have gotten to know Kate I think she would have disapproved very much. Because Diana knew her sons very well and she knew William’s weaknesses. She would have understood that Kate wouldn’t have been a supportive nor inspiring nor motivating partner but that Kate would worsen William’s behaviour with her lazy habits and entitlement attitude problems.
I think Diana would have helped William to “grow” and develop real interests and encouraged him to take his time till he found a better woman than Kate.
Maybe Kate would have bowed to Diana’s influence in order to keep William.
@ perplexed
The problem with that idea is that Kate didn’t develop career-wise or interest wise because she had to be available for William and that interfered with her working hours. Secondly if Kate had developed then William would feel inferior intellectually and in personality. I think Kate and Carole understood that and that is partly why Kate is so inept.
I just don’t think Diana would have liked someone that lazy being with William.
Diana probably wouldn’t have liked William being that lazy either. So, in order, to get Diana’s approval for marriage, perhaps Kate would have changed her behavior accordingly to keep him.
On the other hand, William might have rebelled against both Charles and Diana, and we’d still be stuck with lazy Wills and Kate would have been lazy to keep him. Who knows.
Wow. That’s a lot of projection.
From all appearances, they have a lovely family, growing all the time and they seem very happy. They talk openly about their emotions with each other too – the heads together promo stuff. And Harry lives close to them and they’re all supportive of each other. As for Kate inspiring and motivating …. William and Harry both said it was her idea for them to combine their work and that Heads Together arose from that. I mean… it’s on video and in audio. Can’t miss it really.
Maybe dial back that projection and see what’s really there. I don’t think William would have as stable or happy a life if not for Kate and her parents influence and support.
@ Carrie
There isn’t much of a loving family. That video was advertising and pr at its best.
Why does a lovely … or loving (?) … family need so many nannies for the children? Such a need exists only if you don’t spend much time with your children. So I doubt that there is a lovely / loving family.
William spends lots of time away from his family. He did that before he he married Kate and before he had children with Kate because he had that excuse to be a pilot. He attended safaris and cruises and weddings and hunts and social functions without Kate. And he still does that now. He just doesn’t always get caught. Basically it is the case that William did keep Kate on hold for 10 years. And that included a lot of humilitations for Kate. I doubt he stopped just because they married.
Carole is a schemer. Can’t be nice to have such a mother who always tells you to make the “right” friends and to be nice to that little as….e who happens to be the son of Lord soso or the daughter of the Duke of thisthis. And “we spent money so that you could attend this school / social function so do make some friends here.”
Carole still influences her daughters a lot and still seems to organise their lives.
Michael Middleton is probably under Carole’s control and does as she says.
William skipped Easter with his kids to go to the wedding of an ex girlfriend. What close family ever does that unless there is an unavoidable work obligation. But yes let’s pretend everything is normal.
Harry seems to be closer to Charles because they are seen together more often. I think the anti Charles thing is William being a petulant baby as usual. He is 35 and needs to get serious therapy. To have what he has and still be such a whiny baby is a disgrace. Harry has gotten help and he seems more mature than his older brother.
William’s and Harry’s comments in the clip (I have yet to see the special) seemed ok to me, not too over-the-top. I have wondered how they have coped and it is not my business to know, so appreciate they made some effort to say something on the topic.
The timing of Camilla’s 70th birthday and release photos by Testino seems over-the-top to me. And then Clarence House released a 2nd photo over the weekend of her. Was it to combat this special on ITV? Still can’t get over the book Penny just released, tooting Camilla’s horn, basically saying Charles is hard to live with 7 days a week, has a temper, is easily flattered by women that she has to shoo away and how she make a lovely roasted chicken. What the heck was all that about?!
I can understand them wanting to honour their mother but Lord, this is so mawkish and sentimental and typically self-absorbed and self-indulgent on the part of both brothers.
It always surprises me how inarticulate and ok yah they both are.
Ain’t that the truth!
My take on all this Diana stuff is that the Queen and Phillip ailing over the past year probably led to some talks about duties and succession activation. Meaning Charles. Meaning Camilla is about to be prominent. Given how Camilla acted and spoke toward Diana, and her disrespect for Diana and her marriage, those boys probably tolerate her at best.
I think it’s unfortunate that the 20 year mark of Diana’s death coincides with Queen ailing but I have a feeling this is what’s partly going on. Charles PR campaign to prepare for accepting his Camilla on the throne by his side was surely discussed within the family. I wonder what
Was said about their Mom because these boys seems to be hitting back rather hard.
I’m glad William and Harry have shared this and also glad they’ve said it’s last time they’ll do so as publicly. It helps healing for all I think and in a way may even help Charles in his efforts to have Camilla accepted. She’ll be tolerated tho, not loved, which seems fair to me. Woman was a shrew to Diana and her marriage and by extension, those boys and their sense of family.
Exactly.
Lately there were some articles which tried to throw Diana under the bus in favour of Charles and Camilla. It is an absolutely disgusting. Such pr tactics make me think that Charles isn’t suited to be king.
I hope that the British people will tell Charles what they think about him trying to put that homewrecking psychopathically scheming bully on the throne.
Charles has been an outstanding POW which speaks well of his tenure as King.
and as for your last sentence, we’ve had some real horrors on the throne that Charles barely registers. Ditto mistresses.
Wow-that’s a lot of anger for someone you don’t actually know. I think calling Charles or Camilla (not sure which of them you mean) a psychopath and a bully is a complete and total stretch.
Will’s fantasy about his mom making bathtime a “nightmare” is just really weird. It sounds like he’s describing Lupo more than his children’s grandmother.
You too? Yeah, I was thinking that sounded strange too, especially since everyone has always said how great Diana is with kids. She used to be a nanny — why would she be a nightmare that leaves behind a messy bathroom? I didn’t get that either.
Maybe the documentary will show more, but I actually thought what they had to say here was kind of boring. I thought they would be better able to articulate their love for their mother a little more…poignantly? I don’t know what I’m trying to say. Maybe actors have a better gift for gab, but although I will admit to finding actors like Michelle Williams kind of annoying sometimes, I think what she has had to say about grief more eloquent and moving. Everything William and Harry says here sounds…I don’t know…bland. I DO think William and Harry love and miss their mother very much. I just don’t think they’re good at saying things in a way that is particularly moving and touches you, even when they’re the sons of one of the most beloved figures of all time.
Edited to add:
Maybe what Harry has to say about the last phone call is poignant. Everything William says is dull, dull, dull.