Many celebrity women have been tweeting and posting stuff on social media about Harvey Weinstein. Brie Larson is one of them. I’m a big fan of Brie’s social media skills, mostly because her online presence reveals that she’s quietly savage (in a great way). She’s all sunshine and roses in her public persona, but online, she’s putting Rob Lowe in his place with one tweet. Well, Brie was on Twitter throughout Thursday afternoon, talking to her followers and telling her own story. First and foremost, Brie said this:
As always, I stand with the brave survivors of sexual assault and harassment. It's not your fault. I believe you.
— Brie Larson (@brielarson) October 5, 2017
That’s something she’s done time and time again: tell victims that she believes them. It’s an important first step. So, obviously, when Brie shared one story of a recent incident, people couldn’t wait to jump down her throat. This is what she wrote:
I merely smiled at a TSA agent and he asked for my phone number. To live life as a woman is to live life on the defense.
— Brie Larson (@brielarson) October 5, 2017
When I first read that, I did think “well, that’s not so bad, but if it made her feel uncomfortable, so be it.” But when I really thought about it and how I would feel in that situation, no… that’s wrong. A TSA agent has power and authority over you, your body, where you can fly, whether you should be detained, whether you will be arrested. As someone pointed out to Brie (and she retweeted): “It’s inappropriate for someone in a position of relative power to try and pick you up in a situation like that. Like a cop pulling you over.”
Of course, another person wrote: “OH NO! A guy asked for your number. You poor thing. Women be complaining they don’t find a good guy, but complain when dudes ask for their #.” Brie responded, “You do realize you’re blaming me for a situation I did not ask to be in? A situation that made me uncomfortable? I hope you take the time to learn more about the experience of women. It’s real + scary sometimes and people like you can make it better.” She continued:
First step: listen. I don't need you explain why my experience is invalid. I need you to listen because I am not a liar and I have a soul.
— Brie Larson (@brielarson) October 5, 2017
Second: ask questions. If you don't understand, believe in us enough to learn more. This can be challenging if our perspectives differ.
— Brie Larson (@brielarson) October 5, 2017
Third: speak from a place of love. Remember that we are (hopefully) just trying to make the world a safer place for all.
— Brie Larson (@brielarson) October 5, 2017
Fourth: social media can broaden your world view. It can bring us together to learn. Don't miss this opportunity to grow in unexpected ways
— Brie Larson (@brielarson) October 5, 2017
I do like her. This advice is good for all kinds of social media and real-life interactions.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Yea sorry I’m consistently creeped out by guys that ask you out in inappropriate situations. Its so uncomfortable.
Also Brie walks the walk for sure. When the company she just worked with was accused of something similar she immediately put out a statement standing with the victims. She was in the middle of press for a project she did with them and did not hesitate. Plus last year’s awards circuit. Did not let up on Affleck for a second. She’s awesome
https://www.instagram.com/p/BYJ0J-5DIZI/?hl=en&taken-by=brielarson
The trouble is what is and isn’t an appropriate situation is subjective and varies from person to person.
I’m sorry but a TSA agent hitting on you and/or asking you for your phone number is never appropriate.
I doubt any woman would want that.
The TSA situation is fairly obvious but there are other situations where it’s not as clear.
which is why, if there’s a question about “appropriateness” and whether or not you might make someone uncomfortable, you err on the side of caution and DON’T ASK.
simple, really.
But it might just be your nerves telling you it’s inappropriate when it actually might be OK
Not so simple, really.
It is not that difficult.
Not in a situation were the Person asked, and/or the Person asking for the number has to stay. Not if the Person has to stay polite for professional reasons. Not if the Person asking is in any position of power.
There are some that are clear. The ones I’m thinking of is when I’m in a professional capacity and I get interrupted doing my job. It makes me look bad and I’m not here for that
So what about the work place. Assuming the person doing the asking is not in a position of power?
Or what about the gym? When asked one person might get upset and be like ‘I come to here to exercise. Not to get hit on’. Whilst another person might be fine with it especially if they think the person asking for their number is attractive.
um, if your “nerves” are telling you it’s inappropriate, it probably is.
but way to mansplain a woman’s own feelings to herself.
be a professional at work. at work act professionally. most companies would rightly frown on any employee behaviors that suggest the employee is focused on non-company pursuits during the duties of their work.
seeing this is the TSA they might not have had a policy against this behavior but they will now!
because it is very unprofessional to pursue sexually or or emotionally intimate relationships at work. when you should be focused on work. try to think of one “professional” group that does not frown on dr/patient attorney/client etc situations and most enforce strict penalties if these “codes of conduct” are disregarded.
so, at the very least, don’t do it at work.
hopefully that clears the confusion regarding the work environment situation.
It is never appropriate to approach a woman who is a complete stranger and ask her for her phone number, unless you are at an event that is set up specifically for hooking up with other people.
Workplace is inappropriate. Especially if you have to work together afterwards.
Gym is not as bad, but still problematic.
But especially in places, where you see a person you are interested in regularly, it should be possible to strike up a non threatening conversation without asking fot the phone number directly.
I had a guy follow me around a drug store cat calling me and then he waited outside to follow me to my car. I told some of my female coworkers and they all asked me if I got his #. I told them it was annoying and inappropriate and they all acted like I should have been flattered because the man told me I was beautiful. F that. I want to buy my T Gel and Fabreeze in peace.
Point being, I agree with you that this is subjective. I always felt the interpretation was left to the two people involved but apparently I was wrong because the only person that was as bothered by at as I was was my little brother.
If you are doing a job, asking someone out is always inappropriate.
When someone is doing a job, and you ask them out, it is always inappropriate.
When you are in a position of power, this is magnified.
I love how Brie encourages people to listen and come from love. Its a great thought. However, I do feel what is appropriate behavior from men towards women and what isn’t is really blurred these days. Honestly, if a TSA agent asked for my number, I don’t think I would be insulted….at all. But I see how some women might be. There are some behavior I feel are flat out offensive, and some are not quite. The spectrum of bad behavior is wide. It’s much more complicated and not so black and white.
“Honestly, if a TSA agent asked for my number, I don’t think I would be insulted….at all.”
I think people have forgotten how much power TSA agents have. I once had a guy nearly punch me in the face because i told him I had a boyfriend. Retaliation for rejection is a real thing. For me, as a white woman from the US, I might not fear the TSA agent as much. But for a woman in a hijab, or a woman arriving from abroad, they might feel that the TSA agent could use their authority to detain or search them without cause if they decline the advances.
“Honestly, if a TSA agent asked for my number, I don’t think I would be insulted….at all.”
That’s great for you. But as women and (presumably) feminists, we collectively set the standard for how we are treated. If even one woman is not ok with being hit on by a TSA agent (just ew) then we have a responsibility to present a united front.
Women shouldn’t have to feel uncomfortable simply because they are existing in public spaces.
It’s important to be able to discuss these issues in a civil and respectful way. If men feel like they can’t ask clarifying questions without being attacked then the lines of communication break down.
@Agent fang, actually women – especially the commenters on here, or any woman who has been harrassed, assaulted or otherwise – owe you nothing. There are lots of books on womanism, feminism, and how to be a person. You can even read aziz ansari, IDC.
The basic question should always be: am I being as respectful of this person as I can possibly be.
1) If someone can and does retaliate, act angry, Etc when they give a compliment that goes unacknowledged, or angers when they ask for and do not receive a number it is not really a compliment or request, is it? it is the demander feeling entitled to a response. No one owes anyone their number, a smile, or having to compromise their feeling of safety.
2) just because you think someone is attractive does not mean you have to tell them. You can have a feeling and act completely different.
3) relationships are built on trust, empathy, and respect. Try some therapy to understand what that means.
4) imagine you are a 100 pound guy and you are fetishized by many 200 pound athletes who can, and have, bashed People’s heads in when angry (though, not you), stalked them, or offered help only to later say it was clearly a sign you wanted them sexually because you accepted the help. This is women’s lives all the time. Listen, learn, and don’t comment until you have read some stuff. We are not your teachers.
Also – It is very like a guy to hear that a man was inappropriate but then ask ‘but what about me and my dating life??’ And your other comment “some people are okay with it, some are not” – The answer is, always be empathetic. Put yourself in the other person’s shoes, consider if what you are doing could be scary, making someone uncomfortable, or feeling disrespected and like a piece of meat. Women are human and we do not have to explain our humanity to you.
@Tata: to be fair you attacked AF for saying things he never said.
Hi. I get what’s going on here. I’m sorry men have harassed you in positions of (relative) power. Totes inappropriate! It’s sad, for the longest time though, i did not realize how this can be intimidating. Men (who aren’t rapists/abusive) do not get that women can be intimidated by us. (Because “nice guys” don’t view themselves that way). But I get it. But know that it has taken me many articles, anecdotes from my partners etc to finally come to this (apparently obvious) realization. It might strike you as “dumb”. And I get that too. But sadly, I had no idea because I don’t view myself as intimidating. Make sense? I’m sorry for every time a man has been inappropriate & guys we need to understand a woman’s vulnerability. A “non-skeevy guy” simply doesn’t see how an “innocent compliment” under the wrong circumstances can be a red flag. No you don’t “owe us” explanations I guess, but I’m telling ya…..there’s a crap ton of men that are still oblivious. To which there is probably a collective outcry of “oh FFS! How could you not know”??? But no one ever ‘taught’ me. I had to (very) slowly peel the onion layers.
@Tulsi2020 I didn’t attack anyone or put words in this guy’s mouth. Agent Fang’s comments were not ones of empathy, they were basically “well okay, but what if I am in this other situation where I want to ask a woman out. Then what?” So right away – he made it about himself, and he was making commenters have to repeat themselves to explain to him how not to be creepy. Women doing emotional labor of socializing men is not our job.
if you are a man, and you accept that women are humans, and deserve respect while in public spaces, it’s pretty clear that most women do not want to speak to you while working out/walking down the street/in their office just because you think we are attractive. Relationships take more than that.
And if you scroll down, you also see a suggestion – a man can always leave his phone number. Agent fang could have read that same as me, or come up with that on his own, why do we have to spell it out for him? Men can Give a woman the agency to decide, not ask her to give up her safety and information because a man feels an attraction.
Some women were also dismissive of Brie, and commenters took them to task as well. But Really, if agent fang had read comments besides his own he would have seen that women don’t feel safe and his what-about-ing for this and that situation to ask someone out, isn’t acknowledging what men do to make us feel unsafe, he is part of the problem of men feeling entitled to women’s time and attention as far as I am concerned.
I think what annoys me most was his comment – ” It’s important to be able to discuss these issues in a civil and respectful way. If men feel like they can’t ask clarifying questions without being attacked then the lines of communication break down.”
because no one was anything but polite and civil to him. He clearly wrote that before I commented, so if you are gonna say I attacked him then why not call out the other commenters who supposedly attacked him? (i am not angry with you btw just angry with weinstein, et al)
Prior commenters were more than polite. Was I a little harsh and firm? Yes. Attack? No. But why do you feel sorry for this guy, anyway, when his fragile ego is asking for dating tips that he will probably ignore because HE felt attacked in a conversation about Weinstein assaulting women, and women feeling scared when men have poor boundaries. And he saying it is OUR fault communication is breaking down is rich.
@ Tiffany: Nailed it. I’ve only entered the US once, I’m a white woman from the EU who speaks English, and still many people who had visited a lot over decades told me BE NICE. Don’t get sarcastic, loud, impolite, and for god’s sake don’t get upset (they know me well obviously). They can do whatever the hell they want. I’d be PISSED if I was hit on in that situation. That’s not okay.
Agent Fang,
The last time I was in an inappropriate situation I excused as nerves I was stalked home and assaulted.
It’s dangerous to excuse the discomfort of women as “nerves” and harkens back to pseudo-psychological efforts to diminish women’s senses and perceptions as being more skittish and less developed than men’s.
I agree with you Agent Fang. She feels uncomfortable and others wonder why. Both are right.
Oh, and as a former airport worker, i don’t agree that a TSA worker has much power over you but i can see why someone would think otherwise.
I agree on the subjectivity point. Not everyone sees it in the same way. Each perspective could be valid. The fact that she didn’t like it means it should stop. But that is not the same as saying that it was inherently immoral behavior on the agent’s part.
Perhaps it was boorish behavior. (that’s what it sounds like to me.) Or perhaps it’s that a celebrity thinks an ordinary person has no right to make an overture to her.
@Carlo: Great post.
@Tryannosarahs: that’s awful and I hope you got the support you needed. However I wasn’t talking about women’s nerves I was talking about mine.
Ok, here’s how to gut check the situation. Ask yourself how you would feel if it were your teenage son or daughter. Uh huh. Thought you’d understand that it’s creepy to be put in a situation you didn’t ask to be in.
As someone who (back in the day) was hit on by cops who pulled me over (LAPD are scary MFs, but a polite “I have a boyfriend/I have a fiance” always put them off) and by bosses (Weinstein types who made me want to puke, but who always went away when I said a very firm “NO” to any of their hideous advances), I agree totally with Larson. Men who do this are scumbags, full stop. You can be like Bill O’Reilly and quibble and “but what IF” all you want, but when someone wants an invitation (for a phone number, date, whatever) from someone else, IT WILL BE DEMONSTRATED CLEARLY, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. A smile is NOT enough encouragement, although I can see how men addled by porn images might imagine it does. Neither is eye-contact. Neither is simple politeness/friendliness.
When did everyone stop being able to pick up actual, real social cues/come-ons? I blame this on our lack of everyday human interaction. And of course, het men’s addiction to ridiculous, unreal, sexist and misogynistic porn.
I had delivery guys from The Brick (Canadian furniture company) telling me how beautiful I am, checking me out, asking if I’m treated right by my husband (who wasn’t home at the time) and telling me to give them a call if he doesn’t… Thank goodness my mom was there, but they did the same to her, “oh this must be your sister!” Gee, thanks for making me feel uncomfortable in my house. Just great.
Preach brie.
I hope you reported those skeezebags.
I would report that. That’s unbelievably creepy. I wouldn’t feel safe at home!
@Margo
There is nothing flattering about it is there? Even when guys try to use that as an excuse.
This is something that can’t be stated enough. It doesn’t feel safe when a man makes advances, and you have done nothing but exist. I have reported men before, and I have felt that panicky palm sweaty feeling that makes me feel tiny and angry at the same time. I begin to question myself, and it is not fair. She is absolutely right.
Please report them to The Brick
i am so sorry because i know that feeling.
you were violated and it is unacceptable.
it makes me literally sick to think about paying someone money to come into my home, my sanctuary, and terrorize me.
and then because as women we are fed so much BS we don’t want to call the situation by the clear precise words like TERRORIZED because we fear. fear being thought of as a hysterical weak overreacting whatevers because we think to ourselves “well it could have been worse -i might’ve had to submit against my will or he could have actually raped and killed me. people will think i’m making a big deal out of nothing because only my feelings were hurt.”
there are myriad reasons excuses we make and are force fed ad nauseum she deserved it dressing that way etc it is complicated the hoops we jump through even in our own minds.
the truth is he assualted your feelings of security and sense of well-being by coming on to you and your mom in your house while delivering furniture.
this person might never had intended to cause fear or panic but it does not matter.
the owner the manager whoever is in charge of delivery needs to know.
he could just be:
a misguided idiot that does this at every house because compliments=tips
a creep that hits on hot ladies at home looking for afternoon delight
a rapist and killer
-regardless of reason intent whatever it is unacceptable behavior. completely unacceptable behavior, as you described.
the first step in making it unacceptable is reporting it unacceptable.
i support any of you all extra extra if you make a note on the record.
it is so hard but I’m rooting extra because your perseverance MAKES A DIFFERENCE for all of us.
the more we communicate what we experience and the more we educate ourselves the less confusing all this BS about women being the property of men will be. we are mired in a lot of BS. yes it has been this way for an eon but it doesn’t make it right.
it is pervasive and we are fed a lot of propaganda and fantasy to keep us in our place. so all encompassing it creates a horrible inner dialogue.
god i can’t stop ranting sorry.
Margo, that is SO gross. I am so sorry. I would definitely report him-you aren’t the first or the last woman to receive that treatment…*shudders*
There are too many men who think “But what about my horniness?!?” is a valid excuse to treat women however they want.
@Margo, that’s terrible and I’m sorry. I see that everyone is advising you to report it — which I get — but I’ve been in that situation, and did not report it, because by that time, the guy knew my name, cellphone number, where I lived, had been inside my home + was familiar with the layout…I decided to drop it because I would have been far more nervous about some sort of retaliation if I had reported it.
Sometimes there are just no good options. But it’s still creepy and wrong and I’m sorry you had it happen to you.
Just omg, thats awful!!! And I totally get how even reporting that could be a scary thing coz they know where you fucking LIVE! *SMH* it IS a scary world! I remember walking along the central business district here in HK and a guy asked me if I could take a photo of him and his brother, so I obliged, then they asked me “Oh, you live here? You know, you are very beautiful! Are you married?” I was kinda…like…er, thank you? I guess? Yes, I am married with 3 kids! Like, what the fuck! How is this even appropriate? They think you ought to take the compliment, but eeewwww.
Why are we doing this? Why are we “but what about” every situation we can think of? Are we incapable, as people, of determining when something is uncomfortable or inappropriate? Do we, as women, now feel responsible for writing every situation down where we are/have been/ will be uncomfortable and explaining power structures and body language? Do we need to establish a step by step guide book for “how to interact like a human being?” Here, I wrote it, and it’s super short: Don’t be a creepy asshole who takes advantage of any situation. There, that covers rape, date rape, too much too drink, anyone in a position of power, anyone who sees a woman who looks uncomfortable or alone, and pretty much everything else I can think of in the world.
I’ve dated a few people I met publicly, including my husband-who got my business card at a professional event and eased in to spending time around me before initiating a more personal interest. There was body language indication on both sides that we were interested in spending more time together. However, there have been many, many more who put me in uncomfortable or unwanted situations because they were in a position where I needed their resources, personally or professionally, and was hesitant to alienate them. I’ve written before that one of the great things about being the boss is no one really f*cks with me anymore. I’ve also helped women who feel creeped on or uncomfortable, and made it clear that it is not tolerated in our department. This is bullshit.
Brava!
I think whenever you are at work, you need to behave professionally and think twice before hitting on someone, especially a person who you have power over in any way. For a TSA official, they have been allowed in the past to do some pretty nasty things to people which include groping, harassment, and even a cavity search. What if he had gotten angry once Brie refused to give him her phone number? Would that have given him the right to detain her? What if she wasn’t rich, white, and famous? An immigrant, perhaps? Then what? Depending on the TSA agent’s demeanor, I would either take his question as a joke or feel very uncomfortable that if I did not flirt back, I could possibly be detained and miss my flight.
I agree. She’s fantastic.
Ugh, that’s a really gross thing for a TSA agent to do (especially if they’ve just watched you go through the body scanner).
They have the ability to completely derail your plans and cost you enormous sums of money, not to mention subject you to violating searches.
Would think it would be against their employee standards as well. Not only inappropriate but he crossed other boundaries.
I follow Brie on Instagram and find her interactions in the comments really refreshing. She heavily moderates the vitriol, but will encourage debate and sharing of ideas. People don’t tend to dog pile on each other as a result. It would be great to see that elsewhere.
Sacramento County girl will get in your grill if you try to disrespect her. She’s representing the 916. Enough said.
Hey neighbor, 530 and former 916’er. And yes, we don’t tolerate bullcrap
That’s out of bounds. You don’t hit on customers or clients or people you pat down at work. My 16 yo was recently cat called by the garbage man as she walked our dog and he asked if he could have her snap chat. And she looks 16, not 20. She came home crying and scared. I called the sanitation dept and told them I never want to see that guy on my street again. Men need to stop.
I’m glad you reported that. the more that women “look the other way” and try not to “make waves” just emboldens these pr*cks…they keep doing it as long as they get away with it.
That is awesome.
I don’t think I would have the strength to do that.
I’m now inspired.
Ugh that’s so terrible just b/c of her age. I remember being a really awkward looking 15 yr old and creepy men would still pull that gross sh*t. To this day I get anxiety walking up to the plaza by my house b/c it brings back memories.
But really any catcalling can be very distressing. I’m 35 and I walk to Starbucks during my work hours for exercise. For whatever reason I decided to forgo the ear buds on this particular day. Well sure enough b/c I wasn’t making it plain as day that I was ignoring them I got catcalled like 3 times. Its safe to say I will never walk out without them again. I almost had a full blown panic attack. I get that in broad daylight I am pretty safe but its very unsettling and embarrassing. Guys don’t get it can completely screw up our comfort zone and sense of safety. I get some women like attention but a good portion of us don’t, especially if you are yelling from a block away.
I will say I get annoyed when my mom and the older generations see it as boys being boys. There is a difference b/w trying to be nice to someone in hopes they may be responsive and acting in a predatory manner. And catcalling a 16 yr old should NEVER happen.
“Guys don’t get it can completely screw up our comfort zone and sense of safety.”
actually, that’s exactly why some of them do it. a feeling of power of a woman.
I want things to be different for my daughter and other young women than they were for me. I just took it, felt scared or uncomfortable, and kept my mouth shut. I was loudly called a dumb cunt in front of a bar full of people because I wouldn’t give the bartender my number after he gave me a free shot. I was groped by a Prof that hung out at a college bar and offered drunk girls a ride home. I was too scared to even report that, because I thought it was my fault. I want my daughter to know that she has a voice, can say no, and that it is never her fault. People like Brie, with a large platform, do more good than they can ever know.
Ugh I’m so sorry you had to go through that!
I had a gang of 10 construction workers just finishing work for the day surround me and pick my appearance apart. I was covered head to toe, it was fall and cold and i had on a loose jacket and non tight jeans, i was about 19 and looked it. This was just a few years ago. They commented on my legs and face and whether it was up to their standards or not and how they would rate me. That experience left me hating men and ive cried many times thinking about it and its not like I havent experienced street harrasment since but it was something about seeing middle aged men, normal looking white bread men, who probably have families of their own , maybe even daughters, that made it even worse somehow.
They know. Men are not neanderthals incapable of reading social signals. They just choose to ignore them when it comes to women.
@Veronica: Damn straight they know.
And age doesn’t begin or end it. I’m in my forties; was walking down sidewalk in NYC with girlfriends, when a guy started following us, trying to single me out from the herd (“Hey, you, Blondie!” – attempting to butt in physically, in between me and the rest of my friends, etc.)
Believe me that he got an earful from five NYC women who don’t take crap from anyone. But did that make him hesitate, for even a moment? Nope.
The only thing that made him stop was same-gender/peer embarrassment – when he was called out by another guy (“Hey man, she don’t know you, man. Just drop it, dude.”
That said, I think many men still do NOT have a visceral understanding about the double-disrespect-whammy of being targeted for unwanted predatory behavior, then having it be made clear that your vocal opinion and words and consent don’t matter as much as some random (if welcome) other dude’s disrespect towards them.
Every single day a girl or woman steps out her front door, no matter what her age, she has to steel herself for the possibility – all day long – of this sh*t invading her personal physical and mental space… all with the clear understanding that her feelings, words, desires and actions against it simply aren’t ‘important’ – and often won’t stop – the man who knows damn well he is harassing, not flattering her.
I know you said it’s uncomfortable but after reading the book The Gift I stopped wearing headphones outside. You are completely closing off one of your majors at first, and it makes you much more likely target for predators. By the way if you haven’t read that book I highly recommend it! I read it after seeing someone recommended it on here a year or so ago.
In college, the nighttime security guard at the library I worked in would ask me to “keep him company” because he got “so bored” at work. I had to start cutting my shift short to not overlap with his.
My husband teaches civics to 16-year-olds and got into a discussion on feminism with some of the male students. To illustrate his point my husband asked the female students to raise their hand if they ever had felt unsafe because of a man and they all raised their hands. Men really need to be called out on this behaviour.
It’s crazy how great the gender divide is on this. I was taking a cab home one night with my (then) boyfriend and his roommate. We were dropping off a woman the roommate had met at the club. He tried to get out of the cab with her, and she turned him down. He got back in and was like “Don’t women want sex too?”
He was a good-looking really nice guy, but I was all “she doesn’t want to be raped and murdered by a guy she just picked up.” He’s all “Do I look like a rapist and murderer??” and I was like “all unfamiliar men do.” That was a total shock to him.
There was a discussion about the way men and women objectify each other, in the comments section of an online newspaper. Posters were contending that in both genders, the first thing that pops into someone’s head when they see someone is “is this person attractive?”. I posted that at least when I was on my own in a not very busy place, my first almost subconscious thought is “is this man likely to pose any danger to me?” And I don’t think I’m unusually paranoid or fearful at all. I hadn’t even realised that I did this. It’s quite a sad reflection I think.
good job calling them directly. too many times we allow ourselves to fall into the thinking that we are overreacting and its no big deal. you’re a good mom. there is no excuse to sexualize a child. so many disgusting men out there who dint hesitate to get aggressive and suggestive its appauling.
Watching the people responding miss the point was so depressing and not surprising. Is it really that hard to understand? When you’re in a position of authority, don’t put the moves on people you have power over. That goes for every gender, orientation, age, and colour of skin. TSA agent spots you in a coffee shop away from the airport after work and asks for your number? Fine. TSA agent is on the job and has every right to search all your belongings, have you submit to extra screening, and view your ID? Not OK.
It’s not rocket science children.
oh, but according to Agent Fang, it might just be your “nerves” telling you it’s inappropriate.
never mind how the target of your come on might feel, just worry about how YOU are feeling. male privilege and mansplaining at it’s best.
The one thing you’re always told is to listen to that gut instinct because it’s probably right. We try to rationalize and downplay our emotions so as not to be dramatic or hysterical. The fact of the matter is men rape and kill women at appalling rates. If you feel unsafe, you probably are. If you feel like a man is skeevy, he probably is. You should always trust your intuition. It’s our best defense against predators.
KB: I always told my mom I have a knack for knowing if someone is a potential threat and I still maintain it to this day. Everyone I red flag ends up proving I was right. So much bad sh*t can happen to women I rather come off as a rude b*tch and just take the lashing from men and others than end up in a bad situation.
Even now that casual sex is totally acceptable, any guy who acts like a woman is unreasonable for being cautious is probably better left alone. If you don’t feel completely safe with a guy, he should generously offer you his phone number and let you decide if you want to make another move, like meeting in a public place to chat.
Angela82, i’m totally with you. i feel the same and i always trust my gut now.
A cop asked for my number after he pulled me over. I must have looked so dumbfounded that he immediately apologized. It could have been so much worse.
After investigating a robbery at the business next to my friend’s office, one of the police officers returned, on his off-duty hours and out of uniform, and asked my friend out. She said yes, and it certainly didn’t hurt he waited until the case was concluded and approached her as a guy, not a cop.
You said it – he approached her as a civillian, not a policeman. He didn’t approach her at the crime scene, even if she wasn’t the victim. He actually did it right.
Now that guy was professional and obviously understands boundaries.
My very first job was at a guest house. It got robbed one night and I got hit on by one of the CID officers that came to investigate the next day. Kept asking me inappropriate questions. My name and number, if I had a boyfriend and when I said yes, who he was etc.,. He only quit it when I said loud enough for my boss and his partner to hear, I don’t know you and I don’t want to go out with you. Don’t you have work to do?
To this day, I don’t get how he could not know how out of line he was.
Someone asking for your phone number is comparable to harassment and sexual assault. That’s a tad ridiculous.
Now, if he had taken her personal information, stalked her, called her repeatedly or shown up at the front door of her home then I could see a problem.
Disagree. As I said below, I was getting my tires changed and while sitting in the car waiting for my GUY friend before leaving the tech leaned in over me, holding my steering wheel, and asked for my number. Made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable…it’s aggressive and inexcusable to pressure a customer or a person you have power over to give you her PERSONAL information
If you’re chatting with someone somewhere, sure, fine, asking for the number is okay. If the person is working such as a TSA agent, a sanitation worker, a cop. No, they should absolutely NOT be asking people for phone numbers. There is an unequal balance of power and it is just wrong. They’re supposed to be working.
I once had to write a check at the post office, and of course put my phone number on the check.
The postal clerk took my phone number and later called me to ask me out. Holy shit, that was invasive. I didn’t give *him* my phone number; I gave the USPS my phone number. Jesus.
WTF
Now that is creepy!
I was a clerk in the post office for years. That is unacceptable behavior. I am sorry you had to deal with that. I hope you reported it. Sadly, I doubt it would not have been taken seriously. The overall climate at the post office is not the friendliest to women.
wow….yeah that was really inappropriate. Hope you contacted his employer?
Who was asking for her number? Context matters.
Boundaries are essential, and in a setting like that, it is very inappropriate. If she had been flirty and friendly in an inviting way, then she would have said that, but she was just going about her life, and he had no right to put her in that position. It sounds petty only because we are entering a new era of asking for respect beyond equal pay and choices. We want to be respected in our day to day life doing mundane activities too.
he is not there to get dates he is there to PREVENT acts of terror. not to hookup or fill his social calendar while armed, and basically in control of your RIGHTS at this point, you know cavity searches, arrest that sort of thing.
sorry, when someone that is armed can take you, against your will and for whatever reason, into a closed screening room to do whatever they want under the guise of doing their job, asking for anything personal beyond their line of duty is HARRASSMENT.
she did not say he stalked her or assualted her but the description she gave totally meets the criteria of harassment AND SHE NEVER USED THE WORD!
I 100% agree poppy. My sister and I were travelling to Seattle once (from Canada) to visit my cousin and were stopped by a customs agent who couldn’t stop exclaiming “Wow! She doesn’t have a boyfriend!” to my sister… He was at least 15 years older than her – we were both in our early/mid twenties.
It was EXTREMELY uncomfortable and he was basically keeping us at the desk just to exclaim this…So instead of sternly telling him to stop I was forced to smile and laugh and basically be “in” on this. It makes me rage and feel sick to think about it to this day.
You should be very cautious about handing out your phone number. Perhaps you have never had obscene or threatening calls, but I have. I wouldn’t give my phone number to a man I didn’t know for the same reason I’ve had to duck into stores or even a neighbor’s house to avoid letting a guy harassing me on the street or from a car know where I live. It’s just asking for trouble. It’s personal identifying information that lets them into your space. And you can easily make a mistake about which strangers to trust with that information.
I like her and she is right! Is not ok for a TSA agent to ask for her digits… very inappropriate. Something like this happened to me, I was cutting it short for my flight and felt forced to smile back and interact with the agent because I was afraid he was going to derail my plans and I would miss my flight and consequently a big work meeting. It was so uncomfortable and I felt so impotent.
It feels a burden sometimes to be a woman specially nowadays. We get constantly harassed and abused and somehow we get blamed for all of it…. I just don’t get it. I’m happy she shared her experience.
Good for her. Glad she is speaking out. No woman should be subjected to getting hit on by someone with any measure of power to make her life hell.
I hope she got his name and filed a formal complaint.
I was getting my tires changed and while sitting in the car waiting for my GUY friend before leaving the tech leaned in over me, holding my steering wheel, and asked for my number. Made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable…I know how she feels
When I first read her tweet, I thought to myself that “this is going overboard, it’s just an annoying thing, not that bad.” But then I actually pictured myself trying to respond to a TSA and I realized why it was bad and worth mentioning. I guess the problem with men not sympethazing is that many can’t do the picturing part, even in cases that are far worse, like sexual harassment.
Also, I didn’t really like Brie at first, but I respect her now. She is one of the first to speak about Weinstein when most are still quiet.
I was walking down the street yesterday, and a guy I’d never seen before, yelled out of his car that I had sexy legs. He pulled over, and asked if I wanted to go out. When I said no, he wrote down his phone number and handed it to me which I threw away as soon as I got to Subway. Lots of creepy pigs out there
Yep this happened to me (I mentioned it above) except I got so upset I just bolted back to my building ASAP without even catching his eye and promised myself never to leave my office again without noise cancelling headphones. No woman should have to be uncomfortable or fearful going through life. 🙁
I also notice some women think if the guy is good looking its A ok but if he looks creepy than its a red flag. Its like no any harassment is disturbing, I don’t care if they’re a supermodel.
Two words Ted Bundy
@Who ARE these people? : My mom thinks I am a paranoid nutcase because I grew up studying psychology and the criminal mind and I don’t trust anyone lol. I can probably blame too many Bundy docs on why I don’t want any random guy walking up to me no matter how good looking or intelligent/professional he seems. I tell my mom all the time I can’t believe you continued to hitchhike in the 70s when that madness was going on.
I also blame too much true crime docs for my irrational fear of cops. I remember living in Boston and coming out of a store with a bottle of wine (I was 23) and turning a corner and some cop came out of an alley way behind the store and starting asking me questions like: if I was of age, did they card me, let me see your DL, where do you live, why is your DL MD and not Massachusetts, do you have a 2nd ID, etc. I finally managed to answer enough questions that he gave up and bolted but he definitely wasn’t in uniform and came across iffy at best. At the time I was just paranoid he would try and arrest me but afterwards I was just thankful I hadn’t been persuaded to go away with him for whatever reason.
Spot on! Good looking men get away with it and we even are agreeable toward it sometimes. Average looking or below average looking men often get called “creepy” but the behavior of both are the same. We women need to not be charmed by the looks and be consistent in those boundaries regardless of the looks.
isabelle, I was waiting for someone to bring up this point about the perceived attractiveness of the men in question. People are very biased towards looks and often are more than likely willing to dismiss (or even be flattered by) such behavior in good-looking people as opposed to not so good-looking people. Yes, the behavior is the same and sometimes very annoying.
I have a job to where I work with the public . My co worker was in the bathroom crying and I asked her if she was okay. She told me that a man came up to her, handed her an envelope full of money and asked her out on a date . She was horrified , embarrassed and she quit that day. She did nothing to provoke that and I felt horrible for her .
What’s wrong with that? A polite no is all she needed to say. Always make yourself the vulnerable victim, I guess. I view myself as far more empowered.
wow, good for you! if only all women could have your outlook on life.
Or, how about we acknowledge people’s experiences without diminishing them/putting them down? Having a person in a position of authority hit on you can be incredibly uncomfortable, as many people here, and on twitter, have attested to. Just because you view it differently, doesn’t invalidate her experience. And it doesn’t make her any less ’empowered.’ Her speaking about it and refusing to bow to the sh*tty comments telling her to get over herself and stop playing the “vulnerable victim” is pretty empowering to me.
when there is an imbalance of power, like in this case, it’s harassment. that’s what’s wrong with that.
how empowered would you be if you said no to the TSA guy, and he decided to pull you out of line for a more “in-depth” screening? made you miss your flight? detained you with no access to your phone or a lawyer? told his supervisor that you made a comment about a bomb or some other suspicious thing?
Since when did politely telling a TSA no about anything, much less wounding his pride by turning down his advances, result in a good day?
It’s wrong because a TSA agent is in a position of power (not to mention ON THE JOB) that could seriously impact her ability to move through her day should he choose to abuse that power in retaliation to her rejection. Like, this isn’t difficult to understand as to why it’s inappropriate. She’s not comparing it to more seriously forms of assault; her point is that women are expected to move through their lives disregarding casual invasions of their integrity and person because “it’s not that bad.” It also taps into the issue of the double-edged sword of female socialization where women are punished for not being outwardly friendly and open (“She’s such a bitch!”) but minor acts of courtesy are seen as invitations for sexual interest.
Empowerment isn’t purely individual and impossible to sustain it if it’s expected to be as such. (Not to mention it strips men of their responsibility for their social behaviors – WOMEN are not the problem here, so they are not the ones who should be expected to fix it.) Empowerment is about creating a society where women don’t have to put have to tolerate this shit on a regular basis.
A guy asking for your number at a BAR where both of you are on equal ground and there is reasonable ambiguity where he might read interest and who takes your rejection respectfully is not a problem. It may be uncomfortable if you’re not interested, but it’s not a violation of personhood. A man exploiting women’s socialized empathy and kindness for sexual maneuvering is a completely different issue.
Veronica , you nailed it. You’re spot on and agree with your whole post.
Veronica you are spot on with your comments – PREACH IT!
Excellent. May I add this for men who don’t get it:
Women are unwilling to give out their phone numbers to complete strangers for good reason. How does she know you’re not crazy, an addict, a sex offender, etc.? Why would she want to give you her personal info that would allow you to stalk her? If you are truly interested, and the setting is appropriate, give her YOUR name/number/email. And if she says no and is not interested – LET IT GO. Badgering her to say yes will not work out for you.
Well said, Veronica.
I work for the Federal government so we have armed guards at the door 24/7. They are all nice people at our new building, but before we moved there was one super creepy dude who would literally hit on any woman who walked into the door. To make matters worse they used to make you go through a screening every single day even if you were a full time Fed. Anyways if you didn’t flirt or at least acknowledge him he would keep you there asking you questions. he even stole my friend’s bottle of wine (she wasn’t allowed to bring it in a Federal agency but she assumed it’d be waiting at the front desk when she got back, she was wrong). Obviously in most cases people just walk away but b/c we had to get in the building people had to be respectful even with his shitty behavior. I think finally enough people complained that he got fired. But I can see where a normal situation can be abnormal when someone is in a position of authority.
That “polite no” garbage was what they preached in my youth. It was the corollary to “the boys won’t like us if…” I am now 65 and I”m damned if I will accept it in 2017. Many thanks to Veronica.
I agree with you, @HoneyBear. I don’t find TSA agents intimidating and asking for a phone number is in no way sexual harassment. Just say no and walk away. It’s not a big deal.
Was it inappropriate to ask for her number while he was working? Absolutely. Was it sexual harassment? Absolutely not.
I’m sorry, but in what airport can you “just walk away” from a TSA agent? In that moment, in that place, they have ALL the power. I dare you to ignore a TSA agent the next time you go through security. Enjoy the subsequent body cavity search while you miss your flight.
I very much doubt the guy wanted her phone number so they could go bowling together – ergo, an unwanted sexual advance. Maybe that doesn’t meet the legal definition of harassment, but what else should we call it?
@jetlagged By walk a away, I mean she will walk away after their interaction is over and that’s it. It’s over. I’m sure she’s not still standing there with her “harasser” days later still tweeting about. Girl, come on! You know what I meant. 😂😂😂😂😂
It’s a one-time encounter for her, but how often in a day is that TSA guy bugging women for their number? How many times does it take for his behavior to cross some sort of line?
Sure, most of the time women will just brush off something they find personally uncomfortable (we almost don’t have a choice about it) and continue with their day, but it bugs me that the conditions exist where we have to do that – repeatedly, and for most of our adult life. How many times is a guy put in a situation where he’s fielding unwanted sexual advances simply because he happens to be standing somewhere breathing in and out? I’m sure it happens, but I’m also sure it’s far less frequently than what women encounter.
honeybear, that is a deeply ignorant statement to make. your response is a reflection of the big picture problem we have in our society. we victim blame, and project that internalized misogynistic outlook onto other women. very sad
You have lived a charmed life.
Some guys get very angry and abusive when they hear the word “no”. Has happened to me with coworkers and it is extremely awkward, to say the least. They only do this when they are alone with you, in my experience, although I suppose if they figure no one can overhear them then they might.
With strangers, it’s even worse because you have no idea what the guy is going to try next out of revenge. I’ve had unknown guys stop or slow down their cars while I’m walking down the street (as covered up as an old-fashioned nun) and oh so sweetly ask if I’d like a ride. If I ignored them or just said no and kept on walking, I would be treated to a stream of abuse as they continued to drive slowly down the street. I considered taking down the license plate numbers for such guys and reporting them to the police. But I figured the police wouldn’t care, and there was too much risk that the guy or guys would get even angrier and really try to hurt me if they saw me taking down the number.
Any woman who has walked by herself long enough in public likely has such stories to tell. If you walk with a man or a child, the men don’t bother you (indicates you are already owned by another guy who might clean their clock).
That’s why it’s so uncomfortable being asked out on a date out of the blue in inappropriate circumstances. It raises all sorts of valid alarm bells and raises fears for your own safety, based on very real experiences.
No one has ever asked for my number. 🙁
I got a phone call once from a cardiologist who took my phone number from my patient chart. He wasn’t even my doctor. I was creeped out and angry but worse, my violation meant absolutely nothing to anyone who mattered. The doctor was smart enough to call from the hospital so I had no proof he called me for personal reasons. For women the struggle is always and forever real.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I had a similar experience with a guy from the bank. When I went to the manager to complain, he basically just smiled and nodded at me but I knew he didn’t really care. So frustrating.
As a former hospital worker and a pre-med, that infuriates me on a profound scale. That is literally an illegal violation of your medical privacy. HIPAA law bars medical staff unrelated to your care from even looking at your documentation, much less contacting you in any form. GOD, it makes me so angry somebody did that to you. What an utter abuse of power and authority.
@MKP
@Veronica
Thank you both so much. It was a horrible experience and being patronized about it made everything so much worse. This doctor was consulting for the patient I shared a room with and saw me sleeping one morning. From there he decided to pull up my information. This is what he told me by way of explanation but there was no proof I could submit. A few attorneys I contacted told me there was zero chance in hell anyone would touch that case. I just wonder about all of tbe women who weren’t aware enough or respected themselves enough to not be taken in/flattered. He said he’d never done anything like that before but that’s classic abuser-speak, imo. The feeling of insecurity and vulnerability afterwards was the worst part, as if a peeping Tom had been at my window or something. It still bothers me sometimes.
oh my god. that makes me livid. and the fact that there were zero avenues to challenge him. Thank you for sharing your story. I hope that guy is found out one day and reprimanded.
I am so sorry EA.
Recently I was out running, and I do love to do it. I feel free, and my mood is boosted, and I work out problems as well discover new things in my surroundings. I had a new route, and I was having such a great time, and then a guy decided to run next to me and invade my space and chat.
He thought he was charming, and he cocky as h.ll because he was good looking and I figured he was accustomed to expecting that he will always get his way. We become experts at sizing up a man to decide how to make him go away but maintain safety at the same time.
I tried to brush him off and, but he wouldn’t leave me alone and kept badgering me. Finally, he stopped but seemed to think it was funny, and my coldness was some kind of joke.
A few days later I figured the odds of him coming around again were low, so I went on my new favorite route again and lo and behold the jerk was there, and I knew this was going to be a horrible experience. Everything about him told me he would not take kindly to rebuffs. You just know them when you see them.
He thought by telling me he came mainly to catch me and since I showed up it was a sign that I was just playing hard to get. Just like I anticipated he became nasty when he realized I wanted him to go away for real.
He called me a stuck up bitch, and I shouldn’t dress the way I was dressed if I didn’t want attention (running clothes) and I thought I was so hot and on and on throwing abuse at me. I sprinted away from him, but I felt tears in my eyes because I was angry and hated the way he made me feel.
Running is my thing that centers me and beats back depression, but he ruined my little peace bubble twice, and it wasn’t fair. I can’t run that way anymore, and it pisses me off. I had to wonder if he was a stalker or a rapist or if he followed me. Now I am afraid I will see him somewhere, and he will scream at me again or worse.
I asked for none it yet it is my burden to carry now. It does stay with you EA and it isn’t always easy to figure out all the reasons why it does.
For the record, if something like that ever happens again, report it to the hospital anyway and mention your desire for legal action. Even if you never take it that far, hospitals do not generally f*ck around with HIPAA violations. The mere suggestion that something like that could happen and make it into the media might have prompted them to action.
@magnoliarose: OMG that sounds so horrific. This is one of the reasons why I never leave home without my phone and ear buds. Its sad that in order to feel safe I have to tune out the world. I am not saying its 100% effective, but I have noticed it definitely deters a lot of them if they think they have to work at getting you to listen to them. My friend regularly goes out without them and has a much tougher time avoiding the comments and harassment. I think only once or twice has some guy come up pretending he was asking for the time and after I gave it to him he tried to introduce himself and bc i have no issue being rude I just ignored him and put the ear buds back in. Honestly that usually chases them away. But I also have a phobia of running alone so I have no idea what that’s like. 🙁 I live very close to where Chandra Levy was murdered so ever since I just don’t jog alone unless I am on a busy street in daylight.
@Angela
I am going to start doing what you said with earbuds again. I stopped, but I am going to do it again as a barrier.
Is it my imagination or is this behavior worse lately? Or it could be I have no tolerance level left. idk
That is sad you feel you can’t run alone. It is my joy, but I do understand why you feel the way you feel. Feeling threatened isn’t what it looks like in the movies, and catcalling does feel invasive. You are right to handle it as you do.
Magnoliarose
Your story made me hold my breath and not in a good way. Thank you for sharing this but please take a moment and email your story to yourself, relatives, a best friend etc. a time-stamped paper trail is never a bad idea, God in heaven forbid. Also if you decide to run with earbuds always leave one out. It’s amazing how the ear/brain can differentiate/multi-process inputs. Be safe and know that adapting has nothing to do with your agency. Keeping yourself in a good place by giving up your favorite route is unfair but being constantly triggered gives that creep more power than he deserves.
And oh yeah, you should totally blog 🙂
@magnoliarose: I am not sure if its worse or not. I remember men in my area being super bad when i was around 16 which was 19 yrs ago. But thats also about the time I learned to start traveling with ear buds all the time unless I was with someone else. I take public transit everywhere so all the more reason to wear them. As I get older I have tried a few times to try and be friendlier to the world and made the mistake of forgoing them on short walks, but that was when I ran into the catcalling this summer. I am hoping maybe with winter approaching and layers being used I can try again but then who knows with men. They don’t always get deterred easily. I also notice that when I am with my boyfriend I am never catcalled. He will say so and so checked you out, but I will never hear anything. However, if I am with another female friend around the same age group again they seem to come out of the woodwork more often.
I also notice it seems to depend on where you are at. To me DC is more frequent and atrocious than Canada, Boston, and Seattle have been with honking and catcalling. Maybe its a coincidence or maybe its an area problem.
And sometimes I do wish I could go without the ear buds when I walk and run, but hey it could be worse I guess. I agree that maybe its a good idea to leave one out if you are running alone. I am generally always out in day time or on the train around people so I don’t really worry. I am happy with whatever makes me feel safe. My only complaint is I am very fearful at night being alone and that tends to be when the cooler weather makes it nicer to be out exercising. Its kind of the reason I get sick of the outskirts of DC and wish I lived in more populated area.
Angela82
A female running buddy group sounds like a great Meetup idea if you think people in your area might be interested. Stay safe 🙂
Angela82, a woman was jogging in a nice neighborhood near where I lived, on a busy street in the middle of the day and she got attacked, dragged into the bushes and raped. Earbuds can prevent you from being fully aware of your surroundings and who is nearby who may be following you. Please be careful. My daughter runs and it makes me sick with worry every single time.
Aww guys thanks for the concern. ☺ Honestly I am not into running alone outside lol. I usually listen to music on public transit and walking to and from work. I totally hear the concerns about running alone and not being aware of surroundings. My strategy is more to block out men during a busy rush hour commute if anything. That being said I know the world is a scary place so I try to stay as aware as I can be.
I just notice that while waiting for the subway or even jogging to get coffee you are far more likely to be harrrassed if they see you without them. Stay safe everyone!
@EA
Thanks for the compliment! You are right about the earbuds. I did consider that later, and I am going to give it another try without them. I can’t let that cretin win, but I am not going on my route anymore. You and OTHER RENEE convinced me. Yikes.
A blog would be fun, but I would be the worst trying to keep it up. Lol It is easy to pop in and out here around my children and their schedules although my son saw the header Kaiser used for 45 and said No Mama! Lol Maybe I have been a little too vocal about my feelings. He likes to sit on my lap when I post because of the pictures.
@Angela82
Rock Creek Park is a beautiful park. We have family friends who live on the park, and as kids, we used to play there but only with adults because it was sketchy in areas. It is a beautiful place to run. My brother takes me there when I visit him; he lives in DC. I wouldn’t run there alone merely because of the quiet areas and thickets of trees.
@EnoughAlready: That is ENRAGING! Omfg. I’m so sorry.
I’m also curious as to why no lawyers would want to take on that case. I am a lawyer, and this one is a no-brainer — the guy broke HIPPA laws, and I think basically anyone would agree he was wrong no matter what.
It is especially infuriating that he admitted he was watching you sleep FFS. Such a violation.
@Angela: It is also out of control in NYC.
@Lorelai Yes, it is. One thing I prefer in LA is that you can run in so many places and never be bothered by anyone except a friendly dog trying to make friends. In NYC the dogs are the two legged variety.
I was told that I could not prove that the doctor even called me and that the call was personal and that I was harmed. He called me from a hospital land line so the call could have been from anyone and about anything. I also suspected that because I had successfully filed a HIPAA violations claim several years prior that I looked like a “problem” patient. The circumstances were completely different and I did not ask for or receive a dime but two attorneys I contacted told me it came across as problematic. Lastly, I was made to understand that it is always, always difficult to go after a physician and unless it’s iron-clad no practice will glance at it.
Literally the amount of women who apologize for this kind of behavior is just mind blowing for me. Y’all are going to be real surprised when the doors to the boy’s club get shut in your face after all that hard work you did throwing other women under the bus.
But they’re Cool Girls, not like those whiny, thin skinned harpies who expect men to respect their personal space.
Absolutely. Try being conditioned that it’s “flattering” and “means you’re pretty.” That’s what I was taught as a young woman-being hit on by men and stared at by men is a compliment. WTF? I love my parents, but my mother has some f*cked up ideas about male attention. I avoid that shit like the plague these days, and if it happens, I’m obnoxiously rude whenever possible. I asked my husband last night how many times he thinks I get called a c you next Tuesday, and he said probably at least once a day by some man or another, but I don’t think so- I think you’re wonderful. I guess that’s all I can ask for at this point. If women reclaim their spaces, their time, their bodies, and their focus, we’re all b*tches and c*nts.
veronica! you are on fire damn! impressive. you nailed it!
I woke up today to find out the House had used the shadow of the Vegas tragedy to shove through an anti-choice bill while simultaneously rolling back coverage on birth control. I’m over it. I’m over this administration, and I’m over the women who support it through their active participation or willful ignorance. They want to be controlled, that’s their own choice, but you’re not dragging me down with you without a fight.
Just the other day on the subway this dude sitting across from me took my picture with his phone. I obviously had no idea but the woman sitting next to him saw it and got up and told me. To make matters worse I was with a 10 year old minor. It’s one thing if I’m by myself but not okay at all since I was with a child. For all I know he was a pedophile. Confronted the guy and made him show me his phone and sure enough there I was and the child was in it too. Made him delete it and told him he had no right to go around taking pictures of people like that without their consent. He just sat there and didn’t say anything, clearly unrepentant and probably does this all the time. Laws governing picture taking of people in public spaces is weird and while technically legal maybe it doesn’t necessarily make it right. Thanked the woman who told me and we got up and sat on the other side of the subway car.
Not sure if this is relevant but the woman who told me was black. (I am white) Not sure a white woman would have told me upfront the way she did. In general I think black women are way more aware of this since they seem to get harassed way more (in my own anecdotal experience watching women get cat called in NYC). In any case I appreciated it especially since I was with a child.
Oh jeez I just realized I have another creepy story lol. I was sitting outside having a cocktail at a DC outdoor festival a few years back with a group of friends. All if a sudden this man, who looked like a Chinese tourist, came up to the table and actually started to take my picture with his photographer type camera and I was so shocked that my brain took like 2 minutes to process what was happening and one of my friends hadto yell at him (although he pretended he didn’t speak English) before he finally went away. But its terrifying that someone out there probably has creepy disturbing photos of me even if its just my face. 🙁
I had something similar happen to me. At my high school graduation, one of my classmates uncles was taking pictures of me, instead of my classmate. My best friend noticed it and told me, we both started giving him stank faces and he just sort of walked away. I was 17, and he had to be in his 30s at the very least.
This!! I was on the 7 in Queens with my then four year old niece when I realized a couple was taking her picture with a cell phone. I asked them if that was what was going on because I was incredulous and they confirmed. I told them to stop in no uncertain terms and insisted they delete the photos. They apologized and said it was because my niece was stunning. I was angry and creeped out – I felt that word to describe a child was sketchy in addition to everything else. I repositioned my niece on my lap just in case they were only pretending to comply. The funny thing was the reaction from other people on the train. It seemed like older people were sighing and rolling their eyes at the black woman on the subway who was being a drama queen whereas younger women on the train definitely nodded their heads in agreement with me. I couldn’t react strongly because my niece would have felt insecure/threatened but still, in how many ways are women not in a place of vulnerability ffs?
Good luck to her. She is in for a long uphill battle. Just look at the comments here
the other day i was walking down 6th ave and got catcalled from firemen in their truck, presumably going back to their station. i probably wouldn’t have even heard or saw their leering eyes if it weren’t for their horn since i always walk with my headphones on. anyways, it took me by surprise so my only reaction was to give them a nasty side-eye. but the more i thought about it, the more it annoyed me. because aren’t my tax dollars going to pay them. shouldn’t they be working and not catcalling random people.
Call the fire department and ask to file a complaint. If the FD won’t take it, call the mayor & your counselor. You may not remember the engine number but you know where you were and the time of day. The FD will have a record of which truck was where and who was working the shift. Include any physical description you can. By law, they must investigate and take disciplinary action. Follow up in 2-3 weeks. And no, you aren’t getting someone fired. They’re union protected. The City will have to retrain every employee on that truck not to behave that way and what to do if they see a coworker behave that way. Discipline must be progressive and based on the individual’s prior disciplinary history and can range from verbal warning, letter of reprimand, suspension, transfer, demotion and, only if all those other methods have been tried, finally termination.
SLAY bitch SLAY
Nicole made the perfect comment in #1: “Yea sorry I’m consistently creeped out by guys that ask you out in inappropriate situations. Its so uncomfortable.”
And this made me think of a fiction book I just read, Wives and Sisters, by Natalie Collins. It’s the story about a little girl who witnessed the kidnapping of her best friend, and how this impacted her life. Also impacting her childhood was an abusive father, who was a strict Mormon, and her attempt to be an obedient “perfect” female Mormon in Utah, but also be the outspoken, bold, strong woman that she was, who knew this was patriarchal BS from the get go. And it was almost perfect until . . . .
The character is raped, which brings back the memory of her little friend, and coincides with her antagonistic relationship with her brother-in-law. Still all good, but – the cop who discovers her there on the ground after her rape, hits on her so persistently, asking her out until she finally gives in about a week after her rape. When that goes South, she immediately connects with an older, ex-cop, who although he understands she’s traumatized, constantly ends up in sexual situations with her that she really, really wants to follow through, but . . . . And then he’s tragically killed roughly one week after their “affair” begins, and she just knows he was the love of her life. So, she quickly falls in with the original cop, and immediately begins a sexual relationship, which she doesn’t enjoy at first and is even reacting negatively to, but asks him to just ride it out (ugh, which works). And in between these two guys, there’s an unrequited love directed her way from a cop she knew in childhood. And while the character clearly knew that she was repressed sexually all through high school due to her religion, then rebelled by having sex with any and everyone in college, she never seemed to know that her relationship with these cops was wrong. And it bothered me because not only are we supposed to believe that this character has finally come to grips with her abusive childhood, and straightened her head out, therefore the reader is supposed to buy into this cop stuff, but the author is a woman. It really threw me because the first half of the book was phenomenal.
*And better yet, her rapist was her brother-in-law, because he was obsessed with her, too.
Cheryl Strayd touches on that a decent amount in “Wild.” Yeah, she gets a lot of kindness and generosity because she’s a cute blonde girl, but man, some of the men she encounters in that story are just absolute creeps who are clearly taking advantage of her isolation. It’s sobering to realize how much of female existence can boil down to gauging your personal safety around strange men.
This is why I don’t apologize for resting bitch face, because I don’t need to smile or say hello to anyone. Common curtesy and respect always given, but I don’t have to be nice. Always give off a frequency of, I will kill you and stay away from me while walking alone. Don’t be afraid to make eye contact, looks can kill, and I will too.
preach
Isn’t that kind like openly hostile. I mean it’s your right to be, of course, but why intentionally try to be unfriendly to everyone, male or female? Maybe, it’s situational? I don’t know.
This situation is definitely not okay. That TSA person is in a position of power.
I think I was around 22 or 23. I’ve since gotten better at taking no $h1t from anyone, but back then I still felt conditioned to see it as flattering and give him a chance. I work for a small business in a small town. Word gets around if you’re rude or not helpful.
I had a customer that I sold a washer, dryer and microwave. When he was in the store, he was crowding me, always as close as he could get, making comments about how cute I was and generally just made me feel uncomfortable. But I deal with public everyday, and was told to just deal with it. We are hourly and commission based, so when I sell pieces, it bumps my paycheck. About a week later, he came back in and started making comments about how he knows I made money off him, since I’m commission based, how he wants to buy more pieces to help me out, how cute I was, etc. But I had to go out with him, and he wanted my number. This was made worse at least for me, that I was alone at work.
I said I wasn’t interested, he got irritated, stated how I made money off him and I owe him. I started to get a little scared, but he was getting mad, I was alone, and it’s always there in the back of your mind as a woman. I’m alone here, what is he going to do. I finally lied and said I wasn’t interested because I had a boyfriend. Which was a lie, but hey, what does he know. And that’s what worked, that I had a boyfriend.
That experience has stuck with me because of how uncomfortable I was, and that fact he was trying to use his position as a customer that was spending money in our small business to influence me in to going out with him. I know now how inappropriate it was, but I won’t take that from anyone anymore, but it took a long time to work my mind away from what I learned growing up.
and it’s bullcrap that you had to tell him you had a bf. like, THAT is a reason for him to stop, but the fact that you were uncomfortable and simply NOT INTERESTED wasn’t enough.
more male privilege.
I remember when I was 17 years old and a hostess at a restaurant, this man in his 30s asked me out. I told him I was 17 and he said “would your parents not be okay with it?” He didn’t even consider the fact that I wasn’t okay with it, that I wasn’t attracted to or interested in him. It must’ve been my parents that were the obstacle. So disgusting. And of course I was in a position where I had to be respectful to him and I couldn’t just tell him to fuck off like I wanted to. Thinking about it still makes me angry.
I have no idea who she is….I’m sure he didn’t either.
She was in The Room.
So it’s okay he hit on her while he was working in a position of authority because he didn’t know she was famous? Okay then. 🙄
I am liking Brie Larson more and more.
If one of the parties is at work then its not appropriate.
I agree that him being a TSA agent (assuming it happened in an airport, during a security check obviously) makes it very inappropriate but in general, I don’t think men should be demonized for asking a woman for a phone number. I realize that makes many of us feel uncomfortable/anxious, I certainly don’t like it, but it doesn’t make it wrong. How else would he create an opportunity to know someone? And he’s asking, not demanding. He’s giving a choice. Of course, how he behaves if there’s a negative response, may change things.
It’s totally inappropriate to ask for her number while working but does this really qualify as harassment?
When it’s someone with the power to pat you down, detain you and use a full body scanner – yeah it is.
…put you on a no-fly list, detain you for 72 hours without charge, cause you to miss your flight.
I know a few (unmarried) women who will wear fake wedding rings in certain situations just to avoid shit like this. They shouldn’t have to, but it seems to work — most of the time.
I’m a female and when I would go out to bars or clubs with certain male friends we had a pact that if either of us were getting hit on and it was unwanted we were to act like the other one’s boyfriend/girlfriend until the situation was over. Kind of like the fake wedding ring thing but just having a person there instead. Both of them saved me many times from creepers that I didn’t want to talk to. In fact my friend Ben, who is 6’3″, was luckily paying enough attention when I left the bar one night after two guys would not leave me alone to realize that they had followed me out and were following me to my car. He came out and scared them off – thankfully!
In regards to the fake wedding ring thing working most of the time, that reminded me of shortly after I got married and I was walking into a gas station. A guy hollered at me “hey baby, whats up?” so I showed him my ring and said I was married. His next question? “well, do you cheat?”. Umm…no. Disgusting.
If a person is in a situation where they cannot hand out their phone number (hello, TSA agent & I’m looking at you, cop who pulled me over to hit on me) then they should not ask for the other person’s phone number. There’s a lot of good boundary markers, but that seems to be a clear one for me.
This is why I walk around with perpetual bitch face. Too often any kind of normal human kindness is seen as an invitation
I think feeling “insulted” by the approach depends a lot on how the guy approaches: what he says and how he says it.
But honestly I think a lot of people who are seemingly against being hit on would look at things differently if they were available and the guy talking to them was very attractive-TSA agent, gym rat, work colleague or not.
No, I would not. Even when I was single or when I was separated and available I didn’t like being hit on no matter who it was, including well known men or how good looking he may be. It is insulting to think women are always looking to meet someone and desperate like we just exist to catch a guy.
A man can be nice as he wants but if he is in a position to make my life a little less comfortable then absolutely leave me alone. If I am giving off a “leave me alone” vibe no matter what, I want to be left alone and will be brusque to make sure the message is clear.
In social situations, it isn’t as annoying, and I have made friends that way but only if the guy is respectful and not invading my personal space or persistent.
I agree. I’m sensing a lot of outrage here because these kinds of unwanted behaviors happen to women all the time. But I wonder how many of you meet or have met your romantic partners. Also, if the person seeking the attention from you is attractive wouldn’t you be more inclined to be less offended? I’m just a bit of a cynic about NO ONE appreciating attention.
Of course, it’s perfectly justified that Ms. Larson feels the ways she does- she has every right to not want to be hit on and be able to live life with having to be- but are there situations where you would actually like the attention? Honest question.
I think part of the problem is that we’ve been conditioned to accept it. There are so many ways that I was harassed in the past where I didn’t report it or say anything because I didn’t fully appreciate how wrong it was until much later. Women have been taught that this type of attention (asking for phone numbers, etc) should make them feel “special.” I spent most of my 20’s dismissing a lot of really blatant harassment (being asked out by two of my law school professors repeatedly while I was their student for ex) because I thought that I was special for being singled out. This is one way that predators operate.
I like her too. She’s smart.
A long time ago, my phone (landline) rang and I answered it. This WAS a long time ago. It was the tow truck driver who AAA had hired to tow my car earlier that day. He asked me out on a date. This utterly stunned me. There has been no flirtatious banter plus: “how did you get my phone number?” I asked him (after declining). “From the Triple A computer info – got your address too! Do you live alone?” I hurried up and said no, my boyfriend lives with me. Complete lie. I lived alone. It does suck to feel like you have to be on alert from attack. Being a woman comes with the perception of many others that you’re vulnerable.
“Do you live alone?”
I got shudders reading that.
I’ve learned to always use the plural “we”, “our” etc. to give the impression that I’m not the only human in the house. I’ve warned friends not to talk about me as someone who “lives alone”. Once I even said I had to get home to relieve the babysitter, not mentioning that the baby was a 10 week old kitten and the babysitter was a 13 year old cat….