Prince Harry: I’ve ‘seen how this whole thing works & I don’t want to be part of this’

harry armchair2

There were so many big headlines from Prince Harry’s Armchair Expert podcast interview, we only scratched the surface yesterday. To be fair, the podcast dropped rather suddenly and with no warning, and outlets were scrambling to transcribe parts as soon as it came out. Now that more people have gotten a chance to listen to and absorb the interview, this sh-t is BIG. It’s a big, important interview and Harry covers a lot about his own mental health, his feelings on royal life, his thoughts on moving to California, and a lot more.

On therapy: He went to therapy on Meghan’s advice, “[and] suddenly it was like the bubble was burst…I plucked my head out of the sand and gave it a good shake of. I was like, ‘OK. You’re in this position of privilege, stop complaining or stop thinking as though you want something different. Make this different, because you can’t get out. How are you going to do this differently? How are you going to make your mom proud? How are you going to use this platform to really affect change and be able to give people that confidence to be able to change their own lives?”

Royal life: He summarized royal life as “a mix between The Truman Show and living in a zoo… It’s the job right? Grin and bear it. Get on with it. I was in my early 20s, and I was thinking I don’t want this job, I don’t want to be here. I don’t want to be doing this. Look what it did to my mum. How am I ever going to settle down and have a wife and family, when I know it’s going to happen again? I’ve seen behind the curtain, I’ve seen the business model and seen how this whole thing works and I don’t want to be part of this.”

Inherited risk: “The biggest issue for me was that being born into it, you inherit the risk. You inherit the risk that comes with it, you inherit every element of it without choice. “I think it’s a really dangerous place to be if you don’t have a choice… Then people will, quite rightly, turn around and go, ‘So what if you didn’t have a choice? It was privilege!’”

Meghan helping him get therapy: “She saw it. She saw it straight away. She could tell that I was hurting and that some of the stuff that was out of my control was making me really angry. It would make my blood boil. Prior to meeting Meghan, it was very much a case of — certainly connected to the media — that anger and frustration of, ‘This is so unjust.’ Not just about me, but about all the stuff I was seeing.”

On the move to California: “Here, I can actually lift my head and I feel different. My shoulders have dropped, so has hers. You walk around feeling a little bit more free. I get to take Archie on the back of my bicycle. I never had the chance to do that.”

He has felt helpless in his life: “The three major times I felt completely helpless: one, when I was a kid in the back of the car with mom being chased by paparazzi; two was in Afghanistan in an Apache helicopter; and then the third one was with my wife. Those are the moments in my life where feeling helpless hurts. It really hurts. And that’s when you think to yourself, ‘S—, I’ve got the privilege, I’ve got the platform, I’ve got the influence and even I can’t fix this. I can’t change this. And when you start getting in your head about it, that’s when it starts sort of taking a toll.”

Unconscious bias & the time when he wore a Nazi costume in his early 20s: “I thought I understood life, especially bearing in mind most of the countries I was going to and the communities I was going to were people of color. I had to uncover and understand more about unconscious bias. I thought since I screwed up when I was younger and then did the work, I thought I then knew but I didn’t. And I still don’t fully know. It’s a constant work in progress and every single one of us has it.”

The genetic cycle of pain & suffering: “There’s no blame. I don’t think we should be pointing the finger or blaming anybody. But certainly when it comes to parenting, if I’ve experienced some form of pain or suffering because of the pain or suffering that perhaps my father or my parents had suffered, I’m going to make sure that I break that cycle so that I don’t pass it on. There’s a lot of genetic pain and suffering that gets passed on anyway. We parents, we should be doing the most of we can to try and say, you know what? That happened to me. I’m going to make sure that doesn’t happen to you.”

[From People & Entertainment Tonight]

I legit-gasped at several moments, especially this: “I’ve seen behind the curtain, I’ve seen the business model and seen how this whole thing works and I don’t want to be part of this.” Put that on a motherf–king t-shirt and I’ll wear it every day of this hot girl summer. That’s the thing about calling a family a “firm.” Family members start examining the actual business model and how the whole thing is held together by a handful of Tories and some string. Royalty is invulnerable until it isn’t, until the house of cards collapses because the business model was always bullsh-t.

The “genetic pain and suffering” conversation is so much about his father, his brother and his niece and nephews too. Harry couldn’t figure out a way to work within the system or break the system. So he’s opting out and trying to break the cycles of generational trauma in the family he’s created for himself. And he just keeps owning that he was the one largely propelling all of this. The British media want to create the storyline of “it’s all Meghan’s fault.” Meghan fell in love with him, encouraged him to be a better man, and helped him process decades of grief, pain and trauma. He, in turn, was like “let’s GTFO.”

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Photos courtesy of Armchair Expert pod IG and CBS screencaps.

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182 Responses to “Prince Harry: I’ve ‘seen how this whole thing works & I don’t want to be part of this’”

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  1. GuestWho says:

    Impossible to go into all the nauseating headlines this has generated in the UK – because of course it did. But the one that really made me furious was how Meghan has “radicalized” Harry. Cause now she’s a terrorist…

    It was an incredibly thoughtful interview, and, despite the bleating from the UK press, he didn’t bash his father/family. You can absolutely tell that 99.9% of the people raging about it on twitter didn’t listen to word one.

    • Jane's Wasted Talent says:

      Wow, the English media are just getting more and more blatant. Although of course, questioning privilege *is* radical to those who are fighting tooth and nail to remain oppressors. They just can’t stop telling on themselves.

    • Dunlap says:

      But isn’t that the purpose of the British Media. It’s the Murdoch formula. Flood the echo chamber with false information so that even the truth is questionable. Harry was brilliant! As I listen to him speak I began to reflect on my own mental health. He was very motivating.

    • Calibration says:

      Harry said a few times not to click or repeat the stories. Don’t click. I haven’t read the tabloids in years. I’m respecting his wishes. It makes us all unhappy.

      Whilst I read the headlines here, I never read the stories from the tabloids.

      • lucy2 says:

        Good points – half the clicks are likely H&M supporters reading it in outrage. Hit them in the wallet.

    • Meeagain says:

      King Harry & Queen Meegan🙌🏿

  2. Brittany says:

    “Harry couldn’t figure out a way to work within the system or break the system. So he’s opting out and trying to break the cycles of generational trauma in the family he’s created for himself.“ — every time you point this out, I remember how beautiful and powerful and inspiring this is ❤️

  3. Becks1 says:

    I thought it was an incredible interview. He was fairly specific during the Oprah interview about what happened specifically between him and Meghan and his family, this was obviously more general but also covered his whole life. He was clear that he was basically unhappy as a royal for most of his life. The “royal experts” talk about how he misses the pomp and circumstance – I think its pretty clear that he reached a point where he realized how the pomp covers up something very messy.

    I love that he talked about breaking the cycle. And that he said it wasnt about blaming someone – my guess is with time he has more sympathy for his father (outside of the whole “cutting security and funding with no warning” thing…) because he understands more about his father’s own pain. I think many of us can relate. My mom is a really good mom, but she does have some issues, as we all do, and as I’ve gotten older I’ve come to understand how those issues are a direct result of her own parents, or how I’ve been affected by some of her issues.

    I also loved what he said about unconscious bias, and how people need to admit they have it, we all have it, and that someone saying “that’s your bias speaking” or something doesnt mean they’re accusing you of wearing a white hood.

    • Merricat says:

      Agreed on all points.

    • GG says:

      Agree on all points! I like that Harry is recognizing how his fathers pain and trauma impacted how he raised Harry and his brother and Harry is committed to doing what he can to prevent repeating the cycle with his own children. While Charles may feel like he’s done more than his parents did to be more present or emotionally supportive he has obviously failed Harry in so many ways.

      I think so many of us can relate to what Harry is saying about that. I have great parents, but they both were raised by parents who felt “negative” emotions should be shoved down, way down, and never brought up again. While they did their absolute best to be more emotionally available and supportive to me and my siblings, they often lacked the emotional vocabulary to recognize more complex emotional needs as a result of their own upbringings. As a result, I’m committed to teaching my children how to recognize their complex emotions and validating their feelings so they can learn how to acknowledge them within themselves and move forward positively.

      I also loved how Harry talked about unconscious bias being something we have to continually work on. I think it really helps normalize being corrected when our bias does show through.

      • Wiglet Watcher says:

        The Firm clearly doesn’t let you leave quietly and I’m sure they would unleash all the dirt they could. Unfortunately for them they already tried to drop the dirt on Harry, but being the spare… there was very little left and nothing new. The heir though. You’re trapped for your own self preservation. And it poisons you.

        The more Harry talks the easier it is to better know his life’s struggles. And the happier I am for him and his.

    • Vizia says:

      As a therapist, I always view each individual session as a family session, because we all carry our families around inside us all the time. The voices of generations past echo constantly in our heads, telling us things that no longer apply or work in the present, and often never did. They just feel true and normal, thanks to how our brains process repletion and reinforcement, but they aren’t, and in many cases, never were.

    • Liz version 700 says:

      Everything you said here is spot on. The Royals have so many fancy jewels and uniforms to cover up a messy painful empty existence. I’m glad he chose better for his family.

    • I haven’t had time to listen to the podcast yet. I’m looking forward to it. But, love your comments BECKS1. And KAISER’s opinions are always worth the read. Harry and Meghan are thoughtful, intelligent, cautious, and well spoken whenever they do something like this, so, I’m looking forward to him articulating his truth. Despite what his family, the 🐀Rota, and those baying for his blood say — Harry has the right to his own memories, his own truth, and his own voice. Every one of these clowns would fight if others constantly told them they had no right to speak their truth. They want to deny the Sussexes what they would never allow to be denied them.

      • MerlinsMom1018 says:

        Lowcountry Lady
        Everything said is so true. One thing that strikes me is the fact that Harry actually LIVED what he’s talking about and to me unless a person has been in his shoes what would they know? All we ever see is the outward appearances which the RF try very very hard to keep up

    • lucy2 says:

      I got sick of Dax and stopped listening to it in general, but I’m going to listen to this particular episode.
      It’s really refreshing to hear someone talking about all that, about breaking the cycle, recognizing the privilege, generational pain, all of it, and doing the work for themselves to make their own life better.

      • Gail says:

        Interesting that it’s similar work an addict has to do to get to sobriety..
        Dax & Harry (an unlikely coupling to me) have more in common than I ever might have/could have thought.
        I have found Dax & Kristin over the top and extra (except for their Toto/Africa video which cracked me up even though it was over the top and extra) so don’t follow them
        But his conversation w/Harry was thoughtful and intelligent so….seems to me the lesson here is not everyone is everything to everyone all the time.

    • Susexxxy says:

      When will they launch onlyfans? I’ll subscribe

  4. truthSF says:

    Now this is actual growth! I’m glad he was able to being the work. Recognize his faults and privileges. Understand that he’s a work in progress, that he still has a looooong way to go, but is committed to making that change (for the better)!!

  5. Cecilia says:

    Isn’t it fascinating how the so called experts have always said that harry found the constraints of royal life quite difficult, much like harry himself has said multiple times. But since he’s married to meghan all of a sudden that narrative has shifted to “ harry thought royal life was great and its her fault that he left” it sick

    • lucy2 says:

      They’ll still find a way to blame Meghan, even though he felt this way a decade before they met. Maybe she’s a time traveler!

  6. Snuffles says:

    I feel like this was Harry’s “No More Drama” Mary J. Bilge at the Grammys moment. He’s free. He’s well and truly free.

    And bless him for having the compassion to see that his father is the way he is because of how Philip was which was because of his traumatic upbringing. I think Harry has made peace with that but I doubt Charles has. In fact, he’s probably furious Harry is even talking about it.

    And I don’t think Meghan was the first person in his life to say he needed help, she was just the one who inspired him to do it because he wanted to be a better man for her. Of course, I’m sure this will piss off William and the rest of the family because 1) They want to take credit for it 2) I’m sure it hurts to hear that Harry didn’t want to do it for them.

    It’s so fascinating to see how triggered this is making the institution and the whole country.

    Harry is letting the world know that being a royal isn’t the fairy tale many have imagined it to be. That the entire institution is basically a terrible business model and not worth the money the public pays for it. And he’s demonstrating that it IS possible to make a living without relying on the public purse AND also live a life of service. Then cutting off access to the royal rota is slowly destroying the cottage industry that has built up around the royals.

    Harry is exposing a lot that people aren’t ready to accept and acknowledge yet. And quite frankly I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the monarchy.

    • Jais says:

      @snuffles- the triggering part is fascinating and you described it well. The royal family and monarchy is a big part of England’s identity and to have this fairy tale shattered…well it does feel like by the response that a lot of people are taking it very personally as if they are the ones who are being shattered.
      Harry talks about the media feeling like they own him and this triggered response shows that to be true.

      • Liz version 700 says:

        That has been so creepy to watch. The possessive ownership that the trashy tabloids seem to feel…like a jilted lover omg it is so bad.

      • Rnot says:

        Wow. Penny drop moment there. You’re absolutely right. It’s part of their own personal identity. Harry and Meghan are threatening to their very sense of self. The monarchy plays a role in how they see the government, the nation and their place in the world. H&M are undermining the whole social order. That’s why they’re treating them like an existential threat.

    • L84Tea says:

      Snuffles, your last two sentences gave me goosebumps. I think you are right, and I think the RF and the RR might know it too. If the RF is a row of dominos, Harry just flicked the first one.

    • equality says:

      Charles shouldn’t be mad. He has talked about his childhood himself. As many twitter users pointed out, Charles’ sad childhood is no secret.

      • Tessa says:

        Charles cooperated with both Dimbleby, his official biographer and later Bedell Smith. It was “poor” Charles and how “badly” he was raised. He was the one who complained the most.

    • Myra says:

      It really was. He was so calm and you could tell that he is at peace with all that has happened. He is only now forging a new path for himself and by sharing his story, perhaps he can help others.

      You are right about Meghan not being the first person to encourage him to get help. As he said, it’s all about timing and how you say it. Simply telling someone “You need help” might be more damaging than helpful, as it might appear hostile and judgemental.

    • Fawsia says:

      Everything you said is right on!

    • Margaret says:

      @Snuffles: Interesting point you raise about Meghan probably not being the first one to suggest to Harry that he get help, but being the first to inspire him to do it. I think she may have been the first to see him and relate to him as just Harry, the individual human being, and not Prince Harry the spare, or my son or grandson Harry, the one who needs to help William, or my brother Harry, the one who needs to help me. She treated him as an individual person with his own rights and needs who would benefit from therapy for his own well-being, and not because it would help him do his job for the “firm”.

      That bloody “firm” concept has always irritated me. I think it blurs lines between family and royal role, and treating it as a business model overlooks the fact that its hereditary CEO system is fundamentally flawed because its senior office-holders are selected not on merit but on birth, and order of birth. On reflection, I am now wondering whether when Meghan said she went to “HR” she was speaking metaphorically and didn’t mean she consulted the staff’s HR officers but someone in the family or one of the courtiers.

      I think that podcast is very revealing in many ways, and interesting, and I think people should listen to it rather than just read extracts quoted out of context.

  7. Lemons says:

    It’s so telling when he said that he saw “behind the curtain” and decided NOPE.

    This is all we need to know about those familial relationships. Even about Will and Kate’s marriage which should have been an example for Harry on bringing your “commoner” wife into the fold. Instead, he decided that way of functioning was not compatible with his happiness, and it doesn’t sound like it’s compatible for anyone in that family the way he speaks.

    • tammy says:

      The interview was amazing and he came off so smart and relatable. My husband is going through a similar situation of trying to break the cycle and it’s been tough. Going back through all the childhood trama (even when you thought you shad a “normal” childhood) as an adult is not easy and I wish Harry and family all the best.

  8. Nina says:

    It becomes clearer and clearer how toxic that family/firm is. I’m soooooo happy they got out. Also, I think the only reason Kate is able to endure it is because she has huge emotional support of her family. And she still looks miserable living that life

    I adore Harry for speaking about these heavy issues

    • Snuffles says:

      She’s enduring it because her momma groomed her her entire life for it. And probably pushed her back in every time problems came up whispering “You’ll be QUEEN one day! It will all be worth it!”

      I have to wonder if the royal family is actually listening to these podcasts or watching the Oprah interview for themselves or are they letting their people summarize it for them and refusing to look and listen. Harry did crack a joke about living in a royal echo chamber. He probably feels like most of the family does.

    • Cecilia says:

      The gag is. Harry didn’t really “expose” anything that wasn’t already out there. He’s always been very open with the fact that he loathes the media. He has been equally open with the fact that royal life isn’t what it seems. And several “royal experts” have made several documentaries about the fact that harry struggled as a young man growing up in such an institution and the spotlight.

      • Snuffles says:

        True. But the difference now is, he did the unthinkable and left and the ramifications are huge and continuous.

      • Cecilia says:

        @snuffles right before meghan and harry got married there was a documentary on harry and his wife to be. In it someone said that the monarchy will probably be more defined by what haz&meg do, then by william & kate. Im beginning to see that there was a truth to that.

      • JT says:

        @Cecilia That’s an interesting point about H&M defining the monarchy more than W&K, the future heads, will. The Keens are more or less interested in the same old, same old. They aren’t trying to rock the boat regardless of what their PR says. Nothing was going to change with them.

        Even if H&M had stayed, they were the ones defining what the monarchy could be. How they worked, their type of work, and even how Meghan dressed became changing points for how the monarchy was spoken of. Them leaving has brought new questions to how the institution is run and now the RF have to bring in crisis managers to figure out its next steps. They are the ones flailing, not the Sussexes, and it’s fascinating to see. The royals should have kept their “enemies” closer. I guess now the monarchy will defined as before the Sussexes and after.

      • Brielle says:

        Cecilia please do you remember the documentary’s name or do you have a link ?

  9. Case says:

    It’s really inspiring how he broke the cycle to give his children a better life.

    Can’t wait to see how the British media spins Meghan urging Harry to get therapy into something ugly.

    • ABritGuest says:

      Apparently royal sources told the BBC that Meghan had radicalised him, was stirring the pot& how he was happier in the royal role. This despite interviews since he was in his 20s talking about struggling being a Prince, hating the press intrusion that came with the role, preferring being away in the army & being persuaded by the queen not to quit earlier. Despite that & the way the firm & press behaved when Meghan married in, they still proposed to serve the queen but reduce their role..

      Really good way of showing the firm isn’t bigoted royal family sources!

      • Sure says:

        Gold standard crisis managers showing their work!

      • JT says:

        I guess it’s back to the usual bullsh*t with the firm, crises managers be damned. Firing Jason seemed like a turning point, but as always, the royals are going to royal. It seems like they only let Knauf go because they absolutely had to for legal reasons, not for anything to do with a new plan going forward.

      • Lady D says:

        These people don’t plan, JT. They react and they react poorly every single time, it seems.

  10. Jessie says:

    When Harry talked about breaking the cycle it reminded me so much of the ending to Wuthering Heights. Just like Hareton and Cathy, Harry and Meghan refuse to let the sins of their parents define the rest of their lives. They chose love instead.

    • TeamMeg says:

      The love between Harry and Meghan is iconic. (Reading this podcast transcript gave me John & Yoko vibes. Epic!) I love them both so much. Go Harry! Committed to personal growth and lifelong learning, to using his privilege and platform for the benefit of all, to deeply loving and protecting his wife and family… What a man.

      • livealot says:

        wow @TeamMeg that’s a good comparison. Wasn’t Yoko Ono also relatively “hated”? I was not born yet but remember reading about their relationship. I think if a highly revered white man gets with a non white woman the racist attack dogs will always come out.

      • Nyro says:

        Yep. I believe John Lennon never returned to England after he and Yoko settled in New York in the 70s. They loved NYC and were very much embraced there. The British tabloids did to him and Yoko what they are doing to Harry and Meghan. I’m sure they felt rejected and couldn’t believe one of their Fab Four chose to leave it all for an Asian woman. I think they didn’t initially like Paul’s American wife either but they mostly got a pass because at least she was white.

  11. Merricat says:

    Harry knows how the poor sausages are made. I think this interview is Harry underscoring that HE is the one who rejected royal life, that HE is the one who decided to protect his family by leaving England, that blaming Meghan for any of it is a Baldingham face lie. In fact, I think Meghan has said all she means to say about it, but Harry may have a few things left to say. Lift your face to the sun and feel the freedom, Harry.

    • Bren says:

      Yep. The British media has always put the focus on what Meghan would say or do, but it’s really Harry that they should have been more worried about. He’s going to bring it all down, especially now that he’s no longer fearful of the press or his family’s judgement.

      • Liz version 700 says:

        Yep, they way they treated him at Phillip’s funeral made me wonder if that might be the last straw for Harry. He walked back into that mess and must have thought, when I am done with this, I will make sure no one is confused about why I wanted out of this mess

    • swirlmamad says:

      He’s said this so many times — that it was HIM driving the decision to leave — and the RRs are like 2-year-olds with fingers in their ears, “LALALA”-ing and continuing to bash and blame Meghan for their exit. But all he can do is keep on saying their truth and offsetting the narrative of lies.

  12. Sigmund says:

    Just listened to the episode yesterday. I was shocked how honest he was about a lot of stuff, and as former victim of domestic abuse, so much of what he talks about really resonates with me. It’s an amazing interview, and I applaud Harry for all the work he’s obviously put into himself.

  13. Myjobistoprincess says:

    loved that that the interview was just dropped, no trailers etc. It gives it an authentic feel. Harry at this point doesnt care anymore who he might offend with words. He’s just saying his truth. So be it. People are going to love him for it.

  14. Ginger says:

    This interview was amazing! The British media never wanted Harry to shine. They wanted to label him as dumb, a partier, etc and he is proving them wrong. He is clearly very very intelligent and his knowledge on mental health is amazing. You can tell he is in a MUCH better place and it bothers the British media. They want us to believe they have control over him and they don’t. Not anymore. Like Dax said, Harry confronted the abuser.

    I could listen to Harry speak on mental health all day. He really knows what he is talking about.

    • Lorelei says:

      I think that’s also a big part of what’s triggering them — hearing him speak like this makes it so clear that he is so much smarter, more thoughtful, more insightful, etc. than their FFK. And that’s not the way it should be! In their minds, Harry should always remain a fckup so William looks better no matter how mediocre William actually is.

      Hearing Harry speak for so long like this just emphasizes how inept William is at relating to people for even short periods of time. Look how he mishandled his trip to the gardening engagement last week — he can’t even prepare and act appropriately for one short engagement. And this is who they’re stuck with as their KING, while we here in the US get Harry.

      When they controlled the narrative, they could paint Harry as a dim party boy against all evidence to the contrary (Invictus, Sentebale), but now that he speaks for himself, the world is seeing that he isn’t that way *at all.*

  15. Mooshe1 says:

    I loved the entire podcast. The media is angry and scared. They’re mad because Meghan beat them when the whole system, the institution, some family members, and the media tried to break her. They’re mad that not only didn’t Harry break down and go back to being the spare, but he is flourishing, and if he’d married someone else he wouldn’t have been secure enough to leave, it’s not a secret that he wanted to leave the royal life. They’re also scared because H&M are their money makers. The remaining royals don’t have the loyalty that the Queen has. She’s been Queen for some people’s whole lives and IS the monarchy, who can follow her? Without something to keep the royal relevant Will might be out of a job

  16. Likeyoucare says:

    I thought that the BM clowns 1st language are English.
    But the way they reported the podcast was like they didnt even understand what harry talked about.
    English is my second language and i understand perfectly what harry said.

  17. Brielle says:

    Why Meghan is always blamed? Homegirl is nesting and being super quiet at home but she is stil blamed…England is rotten with misogyny ,it’s crazy!I always thought France where I live was full of it about feminism and misogyny and England more progressive…boy I was wrong !!!

    • swirlmamad says:

      Like he said in the podcast (and I also read elsewhere) that’s the trap of social media….you can be nowhere and yet everywhere at the same time. Meghan could hide in a cave for 6 months and the way they talk about her, you’d think she’s out in these streets strutting and preening like Kate at a funeral.

    • lanne says:


    • heygingersnaps says:

      some of them hide it well until they can’t and all the ugly is out there for all to see.
      my son’s paternal grandmother is like that with me, she thinks she’s not a racist because she talks to people of colour but she has unconscious biases that she won’t reflect on. She has all these micro aggressions towards me but no way is she racist or prejudice, no way at all.

    • Tessa says:

      The bots constantly trash her accusing her of “henpecking.” It is sexist because an intelligent woman is derided this way and it is demeaning to all women. Harry knows his own mind and I am so tired of the bots putting out this “image” of their marriage.

  18. Harper says:

    I thought the whole podcast was amazing. Harry is so articulate and sharp–he stuck to the mental health theme but added so many revealing bits about his own life. I wonder how Kate will feel listening to it–because you know she’s going to listen to it. Harry repeating Meghan’s advice that you can make your own life better than a princess’ has got to be a kick in the gut to Kate. All the princess-y things, like dressing up and attending events and services are probably really boring and tedious. The appearances are not as fun and amazing as Kate thought they would be, the crowds that are there for her are not as big anymore, her husband is more checked out than she ever imagined and the press has to be constantly managed. And then on top of that, she has to fake interest in social causes for the rest of her life. Harry is leading a campaign to reveal that royal life is a terrible trap and all the cool people seem to be willing to listen and see it his way. Also, did we get the article yet that TOB is incandescent about Harry’s latest?

    • JT says:

      If you look at Kate’s life and then at Meghan’s, you have to ask is there really a difference? There is nothing that Kate has now that Meghan doesn’t have currently. Meghan has a large estate, that she actually owns. Meghan has millions of dollars, while being accountable to no one. Meghan lives a life of service, but actually serving and happy to do so. Meghan has a prince too and he actually loves her. Save for some royal jewels, which are borrowed really, Meg has the better life.

      Even when Kate becomes QC, Meg will still be living a similar life, but Meghan won’t be beholden to the BM or the public. She could f*ck off for a year and it wouldn’t matter. Kate, on the other hand, will always have her feet to the fire. Ditto for William. He has nothing that Harry doesn’t, but he wants everything Harry has. The adulation, respect, charm, looks, wife and the freedom.

    • GuestWho says:

      ” Also, did we get the article yet that TOB is incandescent about Harry’s latest?”

      I have an image of the new crisis managers literally sitting on TOB to stop him from calling Dan Wootton this morning in an incandescent rage.

  19. swirlmamad says:

    I won’t even look at the garbage the BM is assuredly churning out over this. I listened last night and it was truly insightful and enlightening — I really give Dax credit for being an interesting podcast host — I admit that I’ve always WANTED to like and consistently listen to podcasts, but my attention span usually doesn’t agree. This one, I was engaged and attentive through the whole thing. I’ve always liked Harry, but this has solidified my opinion of him and Meghan even more — they are officially my favorite public figures to follow (I know that sounds a bit weird but it’s true)! He’s truly doing the work he needs to do to undo generations of familial trauma — he isn’t and won’t be perfect, and will always be a work in progress (as he himself says) but the fact that he is aware and DOING IT is commendable. And he has a great woman by his side — they will uplift and support each other. Sussex Stan forever and ever!

    ETA: And I LIVVVE for the points where they so directly and succinctly called out the British Media for the gutter trash they are (esp Dax and Monica at the very end after Harry left). Amazing!!

  20. LaraW” says:

    Harry is really putting himself out there. It seems like his ambitions and visions have exploded since leaving the UK. We’re seeing the relationship he’s always wanted to have with the media but was never allowed because of his status and the invisible contract with the tabloids. And he was so enthusiastic to be open and talk about his struggles with mental health as a means of furthering his advocacy goals, talk to people who understand and empathize with him, and know the conversation would be taken seriously and not used as fodder for purient speculation and feeding a vicious gossip news cycle. I was really pleased to hear the podcasters talk during their debrief about how impressed they were with his intelligence, instead of grinding him down to the ground like the UK tabloids would. The tweet literally says he’s an intellectual.

    I know there are always a thousand stories about Kate coming into her own, but it feels like Harry has really come into his own in an incredibly powerful way. I’m not saying that he wasn’t a complete person before, but there’s a difference between being an adult and decent human being and being a person whose deep well of potential is being recognized and used to its fullest extent. There’s this energy around him and what feels almost like a hunger— like this freedom and power is what he always truly wanted and now he has it, and he can really throw himself into advocating for his causes. More than that, he’s seeing the impact.

    Also, I know that we’re in a pandemic and that Meghan is pregnant (and a high risk pregnancy at that), but it feels like she’s taken a bit of a back seat in terms of being out among the public (and I mean in terms of physical visibility, seeing her out and about, doing more public engagements like zooms or podcasts). She was forced to do so much and be on all the time during her pregnancy with Archie, yet at the same time was isolated and suicidal— I really hope this is a time of healing for her.

    Bodies remember trauma. I hope she’s happy, and I hope she’s able to grieve for what she lost while forced into the spotlight while pregnant with Archie.

    • lanne says:

      The stories of Kate coming into her own were always fairy tale projection. The public knows little to nothing about her. She’s skinny, pretty, shiny-haired silent broadmare. She’s the blank slate that people can project their princess fantasies onto.

      That didn’t even work in Diana’s time. Kate needs a story, a voice, and identity if she wants to be loved. There is no “her own” to come into because she has spent her entire life molding herself into this image of being whatever William wanted her to be. We know superficial things about her–she likes the outdoors, she likes photography. We don’t know any more about her than could be written and shown on a dating profile. We know she’s a terrible public speaker–she can’t say 3 words without looking down at notes she didn’t prepare and likely barely glanced at, her accent sounds forced–almost like what a mediocre American actress would learn from a mediocre speech coach to film a mediocre costume drama. Her image is surface deep, and in an age where people want more authenticity from public figures, she falls flat. Alarmingly, her image has been co-opted by the Brexit/Maga crowd, which is highly problematic for anything other than an insular England.

      The British media can shout Kate’s imagined virtues from every rooftop on England, but unless she creates a more engaging narrative for herself, she’ll persist in being the anti-Meghan for racists. That’s not fair to her, and I can’t imagine that she likes that. But she’s absolutely complicit in this image that’s being created for her.

      I can imagine Harry seeing that over the years before Meghan and thinking, not my style. Any woman who groomed herself for the position would likely be another Kate, but would also have to be “lower” than Kate in some way to satisfy. Such a woman would still be treated like garbage, and maybe also targeted for removal to keep the “merry trio” image going. He decided to choose a woman who suited him as a man, rather than as a second-born prince.

      Ironically, Meghan is better suited to be a wife of a first born royal. She could have fit right in with Queens Maxima and Letitia–coming to the royal family with a career and accomplishments. That is, if the UK 1st born wasn’t a jealous insecure rage-fuelled narcissistic racist mess of a man.

      • Nick G says:

        @Ianne That’s incredibly well said. I wish more people were reading these posts.

      • Sean says:

        Isn’t this the truth. I frequent another message board that’s non-gossip oriented. A frequent poster on that board is British and lives in the UK. This person follows the RF religiously and genuinely believes William/Kate is a storybook romance come to life and are truly in love. Meanwhile, Meghan is the homewrecker that brainwashed and stole Harry away from his family.

      • lanne says:

        @Sean–what interests me is why the Cambridges stans need to believe that “storybook romance”. What do the Cambridges represent to them, and why are they holding on to that image with such a tight grip? As a black woman, my first thought is that the Cambridges represent white supremacy itself, and many white people need that anchor in a changing world. I believe I’m right about that, but I also think the answer is more nuanced, and I’m not the person to recognize of even appreciate that nuance because what’s blatantly obvious is so offensive to me. I think a lot of people are walking around with unexamined white superiority complexes–I think there are a lot many more people doing that than there are outright racists.

        But there could also be something else related to tradition, order, conventional marriage roles. Maybe it’s also the familiarity of their association with the Queen–I mean, the Queen’s ever-presentedness reflected in her descendants. Maybe it’s the fear of the loss of the Queen, and clinging to anyone else who could continue her legacy of being a comfortable presence in their lives. The Queen has been the only consistent public figure who is “above” politics and represents the country–she’s someone that many Brits could unite behind no matter what their background, even if just superficially. I think that when she dies, the idea of an apolitical head of state dies with her. Both Charles and William have definite, undeniable political stances that are impossible to ignore.

        People are afraid of change, and the illusion of the Cambridges as continuing on a nonchanging tradition must be appealing to people. But living up to that image is going to be a tall order if it doesn’t come with a strong sense of duty. Which of course, Workshy Willy and Duchess Doolittle haven’t shown us.

      • Sean says:

        @lanne I think you’re on to something there. The commenter I mentioned is a white boomer (I’ve learned this through other conversations with them) and often rails against the changing socials tides when it comes to BLM, right-wing ideologies as well as the idea of the monarchy losing esteem (does it still have esteem when it’s purely ceremonial at this point?).

        I feel Harry and Meghan are breaking the mold so to speak; showing what IS possible. That scares people who prefer the status quo even if they don’t directly benefit from it (or benefit from it at all).

      • Nic919 says:

        I often wonder if the ones who think the Cambridges have a storybook romance are in miserable marriages themselves because there is no way that someone with two eyes can think those two interact in a functional way as a couple. I don’t know any long term married couples who act as awkward around each other like they do.

      • Fawsia says:

        Loooool Meghan is suited for her husband, they complement each other. However, every word about Kate is right on.

    • Gah says:

      What you’re talking about is spot on- I talk w my therapist about this concept a lot.

      When I recovered from an eating disorder about 20 years ago I had a massive rush of energy and productivity that filled the vacuum once occupied by the ED.

      Ditto with dealing w Complex PtSD and a very sick child the past four years. As we both healed I discovered reservoirs of energy. Lol I have like 8 hobbies now.

      So the energy and productivity and impact of H and M I think we are just starting to see because their capacities will continue to expand after the birth of their second baby.

      Really it’s amazing because they have already done so much and while under incredible internal and external pressure.

      I suspect we ain’t seen nothing yet. :) ) I’m here for it.

    • Lorelei says:

      @Laraw and @Lanne these are both such great posts!!

      It’s like a “show, don’t tell” sort of situation— every day we get a new article about how Kate is “coming into her own” while at the same time we see that Harry is the one who is actually quietly DOING IT. Interviews like this with Harry just make the contrast between him and the Cambridges so stark.

      I feel like the week Meghan’s book was announced (was that last week or the week before? I’m losing it) was sort of symbolic of all of the differences between the Cambridges and the Sussexes and how each are covered by the media.
      Kate was being lauded for signing the foreword to a book that she really didn’t have anything to do with (I know she was involved with the actual Hold Still campaign; I’m referring only to the book) as it’s announced that Meghan actually wrote her own book. It’s just a perfect representation of the two couples; Kate’s involvement was minimal and the praise for her is empty but plentiful; the press is reaching to give her a ton of credit for what little she did, while the media’s attention around Meghan’s book was genuine— that was actual “news,” about something she created herself.

      It just shows how hard the BM needs to work to try and make headlines out of whatever W or K did that week even though there’s absolutely nothing noteworthy there and not much to report on except whatever Kate wore.

  21. Amy Bee says:

    “Harry couldn’t figure out a way to work within the system or break the system. So he’s opting out and trying to break the cycles of generational trauma in the family he’s created for himself. And he just keeps owning that he was the one largely propelling all of this. The British media want to create the storyline of “it’s all Meghan’s fault.” Meghan fell in love with him, encouraged him to be a better man, and helped him process decades of grief, pain and trauma. He, in turn, was like “let’s GTFO.””


  22. heygingersnaps says:

    I hope the bitter british media implodes with incandescent anger. Also radio 4 is showing their asses again with how they are making it to be Meghan’s fault by “radicalising” him. Jeebus!!

    • swirlmamad says:

      It’s just pathetic at this point. That’s literally all they have to sell their craptastic rags — “weak man with no capacity to think or decide for himself is badly influenced by BLACK American harlot, and isn’t it all just like Wallis Simpson all over again?!?!’ It becomes more inane the more they do it, and it’s really getting to the point that only short-sighted ignorant fools are swallowing what they are shilling — the same people who think MAGA talking points are real news.

      • JT says:

        What’s even more pathetic is that Meghan didn’t even say sh*t! This is more than living rent free, she is their obsession.

    • MsIam says:

      Weren’t some of these same people telling the Sussexes to go if they weren’t happy? Now they’ve left and they’re considered “radicalized”? Make it make sense!

  23. Over it says:

    Well I have listened to it twice now , Harry keeps me coming back for more. This is a man I 💯 respect and admire. A husband and a family with compassion for the world.even though you definitely don’t deserve it.

  24. aang says:

    I could not be more impressed with what Harry said in this interview. Disrupting patterns of generational trauma is so important. I didn’t even know what that was until I was a decade into parenting and saw the harm I was causing my own kids. My great grandmother was taken from her reservation and put into a residential school, that trauma has reverberated through my family like a bomb. on the other side of the family centuries, literal centuries, of Appalachian poverty made things just as dysfunctional. I thought that by not drinking, engaging in domestic violence, being financially stable before I had children, and raising them away from my community I could make their life different. But it is a lot more than just surface changes. I had to change my entire way of viewing myself, others, and the world. Therapy helped me do that. I can’t do much about the inherited epigenetics of the trauma but I can control my behavior.

    • Lindsay says:

      Wow, that’s an immense amount of pain and work condensed into one paragraph. You’ve come a long way and should be proud of the gift you’re giving to your family.

  25. Jane Doe says:

    Narcissistic families are so hard to recognize and leave-you don’t know it’s a cult because it’s all you’ve ever known. It’s devastating when you start to unravel and discover all your programming and you spend the rest of your life undoing it. The truth teller (H) is severely punished by the family, and the family projects all their dysfunction on to the scapegoat. M is also a scapegoat plus the racism that is misogynoir.
    I know they’re incredibly privileged, but I’m fascinated by what they’ve built since escaping.

    • Midge says:

      Yes, this is exactly what is happening to Harry. There is another term, “identified patient”, which through therapy, I learned this was my role in my family dynamics.

      From wikipedia “Family member in a dysfunctional family who expresses the family’s authentic inner conflicts. Usually, the “designated patient” expresses their physical symptoms unconsciously, unaware they are making overt dysfunctional family dynamics that have been covert and which no one can talk about at home. Occasionally, the identified patient is partly conscious of why and how they have become the focus of concern in the family system.

      As a family systems dynamic, the overt symptoms of identified patient draw attention away from the “elephants in the living room no one can talk about” which need to be discussed, such as a pending separation or divorce. If covert abuse occurs between family members, the overt symptoms can draw attention away from the perpetrator(s).

      The identified patient is a kind of diversion and a kind of scapegoat.”

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        Midge, wow, did I identify with this. I was/am the “identified patient”. Fortunately, I was in therapy when this became a problem with my family. That was hard enough, so I can’t imagine how hard this has been for Harry. Everything he does gets picked apart very publicly. He has an amazing amount of strength.

  26. Midge says:

    Generational trauma is real. You would think parents who suffered would want to make things different for their children, but that’s often not the case. Because my mother was physically abused and beaten, she didn’t think it was a big deal when my father did the same to us. She would say, “oh you think you have it bad, you have no idea what I went through. This is nothing.” This is an overt example, but it’s true of neglect and other more insidious forms of trauma, too.

    • Lady D says:

      I made it so flipping clear to my ex that hitting/spanking our soon-to-be child even once would be the end of us and his involvement with us.

  27. Abby says:

    I’m still working through this interview. I’m beyond impressed with Harry. I’ve never heard him speak so much (Oprah interview aside) and he sounds incredible intelligent and it’s very clear he’s done the work in therapy, examining his privilege and biases, etc. I am rooting for him and Meghan to rise and thrive even more now.

    I was shocked at how honest he was. But left with an overall feeling that he’s a smart and compassionate man, and the royal family really lost the two best assets they could have ever had to bring them into the next era.

    • MerlinsMom1018 says:

      On an EXTREMELY shallow note, I could listen to him talk all day. His voice is deep and that accent is killer!!

  28. Dunlap says:

    The fact that Harry said he feels free in America and basically not as stressed will hit the Brits right where it hurts.

    • lanne says:

      As it should. The ownership they have felt over him and his life’s choices is utterly despicable. None of us would stand for being treated the way Harry was treated–to have all of our accomplishments downplayed and undermined, told we have to be “less” so that a sibling can be “more,” to have our mistakes amplified and used to glorify other people, to have our spouse bullied nearly to death while pregnant, to have our own family conspiring to make our spouse leave us, to weaponizing the media of an entire country against our spouse. And for what? What was the gain for Harry? What “duty” would be be fulfilling other than playing the role of scapegoat in a toxic family?

    • swirlmamad says:

      YES. I loved that he said those words out loud — that his shoulders have dropped as have Meghan’s since they moved to CA, and he can enjoy Archie as a father in a way that he never could have in the UK/part of the Firm. They will be apoplectic over that and you love to see it.

    • SofiasSideEye says:

      Lol! We got our princess back, and we took their prince! Oh well, should have appreciated them when they had them.

      • Lorelei says:

        I wonder so frequently who in the BRF actually realizes deep down what assets they lost when the Sussexes left (even though they will never, ever admit it) and how they feel whenever any news comes out about either one of them; last week it was Meghan’s book, this week, Harry’s interview.

        I think William is angry and miserable on every possible level, and the fact that Harry is basically living the exact life William would prefer for himself must just *kill* him inside every single day.

        To us, it’s poetic justice, since we could see how he used Harry as a scapegoat for all of those years, and now Harry is the clear winner between the two brothers. But William obviously won’t see it that way and I’m dying to know if he really knows, deep down, that he caused this mess himself because of his own petty jealousy.

        The entire rest of William’s life, and those of his wife and children, is going to be so much worse that it would have been had he been able to treat Harry and Meghan decently.

  29. Bess says:

    Didn’t Harry also go to therapy as an adult to deal with his mother’s death years before meeting Meghan?

    • Becks1 says:

      That was something that I had trouble following – because he talked about going to therapy, “shaking the sand out of his eyes” or whatever the quote was, and how he was going to try to make a difference in his role, and then he went right into talking about Invictus, which he started before he met Meghan. And then later he talked about how Meghan was the one who encouraged him to go to therapy. So I wasn’t sure of the timeline. It’s possible he went in his early 20s specifically to deal with his mother’s death, and then went again later to deal with his overall life.

      • swirlmamad says:

        I took it to mean that he may have gone to therapy earlier on, but it didn’t fully “take” — and he went back again at Meghan’s encouragement, this time in a better headspace to really absorb and examine the things he needed to have a breakthrough.

      • Sigmund says:

        Yes, that’s kind of how I took it too. He went to therapy earlier in his life to work through his mother’s death specifically, but Meghan helped him understand the need for more therapy, because he had additional/broader trauma to work through that was about more than just his mother’s death.

    • Rnot says:

      Harry did an interview with Bryony Gordon in 2017 and said, “I can safely say that losing my mum at the age of 12, and therefore shutting down all of my emotions for the last 20 years, has had a quite serious effect on not only my personal life but my work as well. I have probably been very close to a complete breakdown on numerous occasions when all sorts of grief and sort of lies and misconceptions and everything are coming to you from every angle.”

      He also said, “My brother, you know, bless him, he was a huge support to me. He kept saying this is not right, this is not normal, you need to talk to [someone] about stuff, it’s okay.” In the newest interview we learned that at some point someone told him “You need help. I don’t know how to deal with this. You’re unhinged, you’re not very well, go and seek help.” His reaction was to “object and run away.”

      It sounds like his first round of therapy was primarily focused on the loss of his mother. Probably with the goal of “fixing” the spare so he could serve the RF. He wasn’t prepared to look at the whole toxic family dynamic at that point in his life. He was young and didn’t have a safe place to work from. When he married the daughter of a social worker he finally had the support to be vulnerable and work on his emotional health. Meghan saw his pain and didn’t weaponize his need for help.

      • Agreatreckoning says:

        Right @ Rnot. In the podcast with Bryony in 2017 it was clear he was talking about getting therapy for the grief/feelings related to the loss of his mom. He did state that William and others encouraged it-that therapy took place in 2013. The Byrony podcast is a pretty good listen can tell he is much more comfortable discussing all of this now in the Armchair podcast.

  30. Nancy says:

    The first part I found most powerful was how PH and Dax riffed off each other, and how their pain manifested itself in different but still self destructive ways. I thought that was so powerful and insightful. In my own experience with therapy it was mind blowing to pinpoint the the moments in childhood that were directly connected to destructive behavior. It was so simply so revealing.
    And honestly, the second powerful part was listening to Dax and Monica afterwards discuss what is prompting the British outrage. I think he is right about that, and even though some might not like it because there is no one person to blame, I think he largely right. The biggest reason for British outrage is national pride. The media doesn’t help because it is creates an echo chamber, but it is something to think about.

    • Brielle says:

      I understand british pride but why put everything on Meghan? I mean it is the Prince who is doing the clear rejection not her,that’s where I disagree with him when he said that his friend didn’t accept a foreigner critisizing the royal family but I mean the brutal things came from Harry…and I also I always heard that majority of british ppl don’t care about the royal family?

      • Legalese says:

        Leading up to their exit it was just a lot of racism and misogyny. I think the national pride element came into play when they announced their exit and began speaking about their experiences. Brits were especially bitter about Harry moving to the US – they feel ownership over him and they see it as an attack on their country, like Harry chose the US over them. I really think people underestimate the level of anti-Americanism in British society. IMO, they’re immensely insecure about their diminishing influence in the world and compensate by telling themselves that their culture is superior.

        And then of course, they put all of that on Meghan because she’s biracial and American. It doesn’t help that the mainstream media over there is right-wing. Like yeah, we have Fox News and Newsmax, but those are more “fringe” compared to the likes of CBS, NBC, ABC, etc. Murdoch pretty much IS the media in the UK.

      • Celia456 says:

        Adding to what Legalese said, blaming Meghan requires no introspection or acceptance of culpability. Recognizing that it was Harry’s choice inevitably leads to why, which leads to BRF disfunction and possibly more important, to the BM’s impact.

        Blaming Meghan lets the BM imagine themselves blameless. That’s why they’re so frantic to blame her

    • Agreatreckoning says:

      The media doesn’t help because through the “invisible contract” they think they own him.
      Read that Angela Levin is trying to make it seem that Harry lied about who suggested therapy. She’s confusing (on purpose) the situation. People do go to therapy for different things and at different stages in life. Meghan encouraged him to go for reasons that will probably remain between them for the most part. He was raised in a system where all these other hidden forces had power over his life-the courtiers and British media (through the invisible contract). In an odd, sick way the courtiers/BM/royal experts believed themselves to be a parent to him(and William) with Diana being gone and Charles being physically and emotionally absent-unless it was time to put on a show. Per a link PrincessK provided in the 16 bathrooms thread, I learned Angela Levin & Alyson Corner?-have a website:
      I’m just really surprised AL would criticize him at all if she really believes in what her site says and if her own story is true.

      • Linda says:

        You have to remember that it’s also about money. These people will lie on purpose because they know where the clicks and money come from. They will continue to lie, twist the truth as long as people keep clicking and it benefits them just like we see with Fox News and some republicans currently in the US. Like Dax and Harry said it also comes down the the dollar and pound.
        As long as there’s someone giving them attention it will continue

  31. Becks1 says:

    I think national pride plays a part. H&M are pulling the curtain back on the royal family and it’s making other countries wonder why the UK is supporting such a toxic institution, and I do think that may hurt the national pride a bit.

    ETA sorry this in response to Nancy at #30

    • Nivz says:

      @becks1 and nancy- These same people who find their pride hurt by Harry will also binge-watch The Crown, and read any and all garbage about them coming out of the tabs.

      I can’t overstate the importance of The Crown in giving people easy and immediate context for the Sussexes’ decisions and statements. It ripened the fruit for them, and they just had to pick it. End of the day, it may be fictionalised, but it ain’t fiction, and it tells on the whole sad Wizard of Oz nature of the monarchy charade.

    • Brielle says:

      But Becks I always heard that majority of british ppl don’t care about the monarchy? So do they care or not? Does it mean that they care about the monarchy?

      • Becks1 says:

        Oh I dont know, I’m not British, lol. Just in context of why some people in the UK may have felt “betrayed” by the Oprah interview etc. If the big point of the monarchy is to bring in tourists, soft diplomacy, general PR for the country – then having that institution outed as racist and toxic is going to hurt those goals.

      • Legalese says:

        The mainstream media cares because it’s mostly Tories. Which ends up being enough.

      • BritDebbie says:

        Brit speaking here.

        English culture is really fragmented. So my feedback might not be useful. In the 90′s our school had a debate on whether we should keep the monarchy. This was made up of working class and lower middle class pupils (yes we definitely do still have a class system no matter what people say). The outcome was “It was only worth keeping as long as the tourists kept on coming and spending money because of them”. If they stop bringing in the money then the monarchy is in trouble.

        Unfortunately England is getting really right wing and nasty. The government has just announced that is gong to start voter suppression by forcing ID cards to vote as well as banning protest marches if it might make people feel uncomfortable or cause disruption! The government is also slowly taking over control of the BBC and media by putting specific pro conservative people incharge of OFCOM (our media regulator) and important BBC positions.

    • Emmitt says:

      A great many of the Harry and Meghan haters are white Americans, though. It may be national pride on behalf of the Brits but it’s pure white supremacy on the part of the white Americans who hate Meghan.

      • teecee says:

        This flavor of British national pride is directly tied to white supremacy, though, so it makes sense that the MAGAs would recognize that and gravitate towards it.

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        Emmit, teecee is right. They MAGAs and identified white supremists are jumping on the hate bandwagon. Since the foundation for the hate is the same in either country, I’m not surprised. But here in the US, the percentage of our population who are in that group is NOT the majority. And, I don’t believe that it’s growing. In fact, some of what’s going on here have resulted in a few jumping ship. I think in both countries we’re going to see the desperation reach new peaks and the disinformation will get worse. The desperation comes from their fanatical goal of winning over the majority. When they realize that’s not going to happen, I wonder what they will do?

  32. Cee says:

    I hope he continues to talk about mental health. I hope he carries on. And I hope every single so called reporter who make up lies and contributes to an already corrupt and broken system, chokes on his words.

  33. Calibration says:

    He clearly eluded to that toxic relationship between the royals and the tabloids. No wonder he left.

  34. Yeahwhat says:

    Generational trauma is something I only learnt about after I turned thirty after recognising toxic parental traits . My dad had a dysfunctional childhood and a crappy father and he carried over some bad traits he learnt from him. It’s a hard thing to recognise but I try to check myself on toxic behaviours that I learnt from him. Often these toxic behaviours are me being unkind to myself i.e feeling inadequate, self sabotage, pushing people away by being hurtful and bottling up feelings until I lash out. It’s healthy recognising inherited behaviours and putting a stop to them and I wish Harry and Meghan the best as they have taken steps to do this.

    • Demi says:

      You described my life 100%.. What Harry talked about resonating with so many people growing up in dysfunctional families

  35. betsyh says:

    I loved the interview. Harry was so charming and down to earth.

  36. Jane Doe says:

    I have to side eye the summing up of some of his past actions as “unconscious bias”however. Let’s call racism racism. His name calling in the army and the Nazi uniform costume were racist. Be honest and move on.

    • Nivz says:

      @jane doe – that wasn’t my interpretation of his words. His screw ups were indefensible, stupid racism and he wasn’t talking about that when he said unconscious bias. To me, it sounded like- I screwed up when I was younger (for stupid racist actions), then they sent me to diversity training and I thought I was good because now I knew not to say the N word or the P word. But then I understood how much deeper the unconscious bias runs in everyone and the work to be done to address that in myself.

      I’ve come to realize that most people who scream that they’re not racist, how dare you, are still in stage one above. Speaking from experience.

    • Brielle says:

      It was definitely racism but he didn’t adress the nazi wearing in particular,he said he messed badly and later he addressed unconscious bias..

      • ennie says:

        he did, in a way.I am not a native speaker, but I inferred that some of his travels to work with CW countries with majority of POC was due to that incident of him using that costume, so he wonton full dive into working with POC.
        It is commendable that he seems so honest and open. Of course I think he is not perfect . Who is? But he really has come a looong way from the assigned role of party spare prince, he really has found his way.

      • Brielle says:

        @ennie Agree to disagree.I am not a native speaker either but he didn’t talk about the nazi costume…and working with the Commonwealth is just his work and duty: I mean others royals go also on tours in Commonwealth countries ….For me,he was just saying that before Meghan he was. not conscious about unconscious bias

    • Becks1 says:

      I don’t think he was calling that unconscious bias. He talked about screwing up when he was younger and learning from that and he thought that was that – basically saying that he was like most white people who think that because they aren’t using a racial slur (or dressing up like a nazi….) they aren’t racist. THEN he started talking about unconscious bias, and how everyone has it, and even with learning from his mistakes, he still had that unconscious bias.

      • Greywacke says:

        I agree that didn’t call his past actions unconscious bias. You described what he did exactly Becks1.

  37. Jules says:

    I like how he speaks of trauma being passed on genetically and that this concept is going mainstream more. There is more and more research in epigenetics showing how trauma leaves a mark on someone’s genes. It’s legit. Now we need a major shift in consciousness to change how we treat others.

  38. BusyLizzy says:

    Good for him for walking out from a toxic environment. Not everyone has the resources / means but it also takes a lot of courage to remove yourself from something you’ve know since birth. His mental health (as well as his wife’s) comes first.

  39. MerlinsMom1018 says:

    IMO the Army brought out the adult in Harry and showed him the “real” world as it were. He had an up close and personal experience with “common” people he wasn’t allowed to have growing up except in controlled doses at specific times.
    The military laid the groundwork, Haz put in his own effort and then Meghan gave him full unconditional love and support to really be who he always wanted to be. He said it best. His shoulders dropped and so did hers.

  40. Stacy Dresden says:

    Yea Harry!!! I am so happy to have him and the glorious Meghan here in the USA doing their wonderful charitable work.

  41. Lboogie2020 says:

    I just wanted to say that I listened to the Podcast and was very impressed by Prince Harry. The Daily Fail and Co are completely unhinged. They are big mad that he exposed how they profit off of the hate. They are also furious that he is standing up to them (bullies) and blowing up thier fake narratives. And of course, it’s all Megan’s fault. 🙄

  42. Gk says:

    I don’t understand the obsession with his leaving with the British press, he was way back in the line of succession when he left, he & his wife did not like the job/co workers/ media there. I guess it’s about rejection?

    • Roo says:

      I think so. Rejection and, more importantly, loss of huge amounts of money from all the clicks on articles on H and M!

      Poor TOB and Keen Karen are going to be so mad. Now they have to add podcasts to their list of to-do items. They will be exhausted now that Harry and Meghan are full steam ahead – podcasts, children’s books, massive fundraisers, ugh. When will Keen have time to shop and when will Baldimort have time to garden? 😂

      • Shazza says:

        You do realise all
        You people dissing Will
        And Kate threat Harry is actually fond of them both , no matter what trouble that they are having Atm Will is his brother and I’m not so sure he would think highly of the way he’s talked about on this page . Most
        Of you are way to invested in this whole scenario in my opinion 😂

    • Greywacke says:

      $$$$$ – H&M get clicks and bring in revenue. The BM got a huge boost from covering them, which is why they are so pressed about not having Archie photos that they can publish. Penny Junor even wrote in the NYT that H&M could heal the rift with the British press by allowing photos of them and Archie. Once they left and their sources dried up, they are stuck with royals who don’t get clicks and advertising revenue goes down. If Meghan’s trial had gone forward, it would have generated so much money for all the tabloids, and now one of them, the MoS, has to pay the profits from the story because of the summary judgement. And this will set precedent for other lawsuits, meaning they can’t print lies, profit from it, and then say “my bad” afterwards because the costs of doing so went up considerably. The Royal Rota has made a lot of money off writing and talking about Meghan, which is why I don’t think they in particular wanted her gone unlike the BRF. That made their gravy train have less gravy. And that is why they will continue to trash H&M because that still makes more money for them than praising W&K.

  43. DMG says:

    You know who I would like to hear from regarding Harry’s treatment from the BM and RF? The Spencers. Let’s talk to Diana’s family and close friends on what they think of how all of the UK is treating her son in light of how she died. Better yet, let Oprah interview them.

    • L4frimaire says:

      I don’t need Oprah to interview these people. What for? They didn’t cause this and it’s none of their business.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Not sure why you think the Spencer’s would be of any use here. Diana felt most of her life that her family had failed her, lamb to the slaughter, and refused to help and support her after the separation. She wasn’t speaking to most of them at the time of her death.

  44. Jaded says:

    I admire Harry for being so forthright about his mental health struggles. Looking at your own upbringing, admitting that your parents didn’t get it right, understanding the effect that it’s had on your own personality and self-esteem (or lack thereof) is a painful process. I’ve been to that well and first you have to realize that in many ways you’ve f*cked up, but then you go deeper into the well and uncover the reasons WHY. That it isn’t just you, it’s the parenting you got, and that your parents got, and your grandparents got. The seeds that were sown generations ago can still haunt you. So it can be a painful process at first — we bury so much that isn’t pleasant to face, it’s sort of like opening Pandora’s box. But once it comes out into the light of day it feels like a huge burden is taken off your shoulders. That’s when the forgiveness process starts to happen and I think that’s what he’s going through now. He no longer has to hang onto bitterness and self-pity because he and Meghan are forging a great life and doing what they’re both born to do.

  45. NotSoSimpleTaylor says:

    Even now, they’re trying to spin this on Meghan.

    Someone said this on Twitter yesterday and I feel the need to repeat it here because it stayed with me: but what did the media and royal family expect? For Harry to just forget about the 35 years of his life he spent in that bubble and not talk about it? It just gobsmacks the mind that they think this treatment of him is okay for speaking his truth. This obsession with secrecy by the media and royal family is just the most toxic thing I’ve ever witnessed and coming from a similar background, that’s saying something. I’ve struggled with some of Harry’s openness but that’s a reflection of my own upbringing than anything else.

    • DMG says:

      @notsosimpletaylor Isn’t that what abusers do? Tell you not to tell anyone? I’m pretty sure that is rule #1 in the gaslighting handbook. Rule #2 being, if you do, this is how it is your fault, not mine.

    • Lorelei says:

      It’s also so interesting to people like us, who follow royals much more closely than the average citizen, because we know how much more there is that Harry ISN’T saying but could. He has actually been quite gracious toward the family if you ask me!

      I cannot fathom why they think it’s a good idea to continue to trash him and his wife, to continue to poke them and try to antagonize them, when they must know how much dirt Harry has but has kept quiet about so far.

  46. Jane Doe says:

    Funny how when you name racism there is always someone eager to reframe it as unintended, or something else entirely.

  47. Athena says:

    I can’t wait for the Archwell podcasts, not because I expect Harry to talk about himself more but because he’s such a good conversationalist. I expect his conversations with guests on the podcast to be interesting, informative, funny and real.

    Prince Phillip’s early life was traumatic and he had to learn to put on an armor to protect himself. Because this is what he knew, he tried to toughen up his son and failed. Charles had to grow up with emotionally and physically absentee parents with unresolved issues. I don’t think he had closure with his father and now the father is dead and I doubt the queen is the type to have a good honest heart to heart conversation. George strike me as a sweet emotional child and Will seems to be trying to toughen him up in the name of FFFK. The Cambridge children will be shipped off to boarding school because that’s what Aristos do. Kudos to Harry for wanting to break the cycle. If Archie goes to boarding school it will be because he wants to not because that’s what’s done. Archie won’t be totally free of the trauma but with each generation working on it, it should get better for each future generation.

    • AnonyCat says:

      I know that this is not my place at all, but I honestly wish all the best to those Cambridge kids. Their parents do not inspire a sense of … emotional maturity? So I don’t know how they can share a sense of good boundaries and not repeat the dysfunction of the “heir vs the spare” when it seems like they dearly wish that that was the dynamic between Harry and William.

      Hopefully, the children pull through.

  48. Dierski says:

    I’m so happy for the two of them! Amazing interview. Breaking negative familial/historical cycles is what I’m working on doing with myself and my son as well. It’s a hard realization and reckoning process to come to grips with all the leftover mental trauma and baggage from your childhood as an adult, but it’s so important to do the work and not to pass that trauma right on to the next generation. In my opinion, this is one of the best things for humanity in general that will come of this (newer) age of openly discussing mental health struggles: that we all learn to process our own sh*t openly and honestly, and we work to not pass it on to future generations.

    Mainly, I just love hearing about them getting out and being FREE! We love you in the US and California is so happy to have you!!! Go H&M!!!!

  49. Katie says:

    I haven’t listened yet but I just wanted to say I love how wee Monica looks between those guys. Super insightful comment, I know.

  50. i can't even says:

    All I can say is, the whole Apache helicopter thing explains *someone else’s* whole helicopters ambulance stint.

  51. Fawsia says:

    William’s kids are very young and Harry was very visible on the world stage representing the Monarch. He was the face of the monarchy on the world stage. They needed him another 15 years to keep the interest.

    • Carmen-JamRock says:

      Too bad so sad. Harry has his own life to live (YOLO) and son and daughter to raise. His days of being the RF Scapegoat & Footstool and the BM chew toy are over.

  52. Curious says:

    Harry needed help for lots of things. his parents wasn’t there for him in his everyday life. he was at boarding school.. i truly don’t know how he and William manage to go through life, with the public knowing their father was a cheater,their mother dated other men while still married. the paps hunting his mother down anytime she leaves their home. not a moment of peace. the tape that was played. good lord, the whole world saw his parents marriage and heard Charles sex tape. .father going on tv saying he never loved Diana. so much was happening and these boys knew their friends knew. these children needed help fast plus all they had to go through in private with their parents. and they had to also accept the mistress as their step mother.. god,i don’t know how Harry still manage to to be sane.but he grew up into a great man full of empathy for others..

  53. blunt talker says:

    If the British media tabloid or otherwise cannot sum up the podcast the way Celebitchy has then journalism in the UK is in the toilet-they constantly write about things already stated in the press before. How many times are you going to tell world how bathrooms Meghan and Harry have-How many times are you going to tell the world it is Meghan’s fault when Harry has stated before meeting Meghan he was thinking about leaving in his 20′s-how many times will you tell the world how much Meghan’s clothes cost with no mention of the cost of Kate’s clothing-How may times are you going to tell the world Harry is a dimwit and don’t know what he is doing-How many articles will you write daily about the Sussexes-Someone wrote I bet the Daily Mail cannot go 3 days without writing an article about Harry and Meghan-It shows how desperate the UK media is for money and clicks-There is a lot more going on in the UK than Meghan and Harry who don’t live there anymore-Harry has made it plain and clear why he left and happier away from toxic people and news-Because he says or does something here in America does not mean for you to write or comment about-Most things they do not concern the royal family at all but the Brits write about it-Harry did vax-live concert and this did not have anything to do with the royal family-Meghan did a zoom meeting with young girls for empowerment-this has nothing to do with the royal family business-both these things were written about and dissected to pieces-when something they are doing does not involve the royal family-LEAVE IT ALONE

  54. Curious says:

    Harry know how the firm works. his job was to work for William, help William be popular . have no income and depend on Charles for money.(Harry is aware how fast they cut him off when he was in canada, so one never knows in the future what they might do to him, so he made a clean break). when Charles becomes king, he gets rich by taking over the queen Duchy of Lancaster ,which is their nest egg in case the king gets deposed.William inherits the Duchy of Cornwall.Harry inherits nothing and have to live at the mercy of William. happy they left to make their own money and not have to depend on William.. when one looks down the line, after Charles dies, William will only have his family to help him.his 3 children.Princess Royal might be dead by that time, Edward and his wife might be retired or gone too.Princess Royal ,Andrew grandchildren will not be working royals.Edward children will not be working royals. Harry is with his wife and children in the usa. so William will have to try and be king with his wife and 3 children..William will not be able to keep up with all those charities. sometimes when i read about William plans for when he becomes king, it makes me think Charles must be ill.

  55. SusanRagain says:

    Look, if Harry had his chance to make a huge change in his life to try and be happy, WTF does anyone have a problem with him doing it?
    Takes real guts to risk completely changing everything in your life.
    I wish H&M and their kids years of good health and happiness.

    IMO, The Firm, the RR, the paps are pissed off because once the public realize royalty is a sham then they are out of work.

  56. L4frimaire says:

    It’s good that a lot of people are listening to it, and it’s getting good feedback from mental health professionals. The podcast is charting for the first time in the UK and is number 1on Spotify, so people are listening to it for themselves, not letting some tabloid distort it. Some people who obviously hadn’t listened were trying to frame it as Oprah pt.2. The UK press is once again whining about overshadowing and trying to say Harry insulted the Queen. Someone said recently whenever the press whines that Harry did this or that to the Queen, it’s just them voicing their own feelings and insecurities. Anyway, really good podcast, Harry really is such an engaging guest, which is something the Rota will never,ever,get from him.

  57. jwoolman says:

    I wonder if the British monarchy will end with Charles. He seems to actually want the job, but I don’t think William really does. He would be happier as just an ordinary rich guy with inherited wealth, and his wife would be happier with that also. They seem to be going through the motions as “working royals”. It just seems so pointless.

    The whole idea of a hereditary monarchy seems so 19th Century, and the British version today doesn’t even have any real political power. I just don’t understand the appeal. I’m sure British charities will manage with normal untitled rich people as patrons, and other ceremonial duties can be managed with the untitled commoners as well.

  58. Monica says:

    Honestly, the more I hear of Harry’s experience, measured against the ridiculous overreaction of the BM, the more I believe he has escaped a cult.

    • Bloemheks says:

      He did leave a cult. I left Mormonism at 32 after I had my daughter and the parallels are undeniable. It’s not appropriate or feasible to describe all the details on this forum of how difficult and painful it is and how horrible the fallout can be. To be in the public eye like he is, I can’t even imagine. Leah Remini has gone through hell and back leaving and speaking out about Scientology. Harry’s exit is next level. It’s truly awe-inspiring that Harry is not just surviving this exit, but thriving on a global scale.

  59. LiveLaughLove says:

    The podcast is a must listen. I enjoyed it so much, I listened 3 times & each time I learned more & more. Dax Shepard is a good interviewer and he was able to get Harry to feel comfortable enough to be at ease to open up. Highly recommend giving it a listen.

  60. lili says:

    Very smart move on Meghan’s side. This podcast was brutal but even British media magazines do admit now that it’s not M. who changed him and overall the hate towards Meghan subsided. Well done. She exposed them all (Harry’s outtake included). She was his ticket to freedom.

  61. Curious says:

    what i keep forgetting is Camilla his trusted friend,wife and companion is the one supporting Charles.Charles is stronger because of Camilla. He was once weak in every sense.he was beaten down so badly he wasn’t allowed to have his own mind..his friendship with camilla build him to be a stronger man.Harry at his worst was mentally stronger than charles at the same age.Phillip did not have much of any power. if he did he would have stopped the nasty things coming out of the palaces about Meghan..Phillip had retired and moved out to live on his own.just turning up if there was anything official he was needed for by the queen.i doubt Charles/Anne really know each other, they lived different lives since they was children and away from each other. but since charles is cleaning house, i believe strongly its with Camilla leading him …charles was mind screwed since he was a child. he was bullied badly , not one of his class mates respected him. i guess that’s why was jealous of Diana. he is jealous of Harry/Meghan and not scared of william/Catherine.

    • Curious says:

      William/Catherine has never been an exciting couple. even their marriage looks fake. william had like yeah,i have to do this. don’t know if they had any loving way of looking at each other. but when they got married it was like a dud for me ..i saw their wedding video 2 weeks ago. nope whatever love they had it wasn’t there, seems like he was doing his duty to produce a heir. nothing exciting about it …Harry wedding, even after living with meghan, his face lit up.his eyes his cheeks ,harry /meghan face was like in heaven. .everything was like gosh they so in love with each other. william was more like ok.

  62. Curious says:

    Prince Phillip parents was not in his life.his father died as an alcoholic an some said he was bi sexual. that’s what i read in researching Prince Phillip parents. his mother was born deaf and later became a nun.. Phillip hardly knew prince Charles as a child. but he decided to toughen up Charles cause Charles liked girly things.acting , music, he was shy, so by putting on plays for his grandmother he manage to show another side of him that he was not allowed to be. the queen mother was over ruled by Phillip. and Charles was send to the punishment(school) no child should go through, did Prince Phillip think Charles was acting more like a female than male,hence why he send Charles away.? anyways , Harry was also hardly home. harry knows more than us for why he made his choices in life. the army taught harry a lot about human connection. in 2021 i will say Harry is more street smart by meeting an becoming friends with normal people. he was friends with black African people. his world came down when his family don’t mind using black people to make them popular,but he was not allowed to marry a black or biracial person. but mind you the laws of the Monarchy men should only marry white women and women only white men. so the question is why did the queen gave them permission to marry? it got global interest, the common wealth was celebrating. in nearly every country in the world they was celebrating the queen giving permission, which means she is going with the time. but it all changed very fast even before Meghan was married. it all went to hell. the queen gained nothing, and i am wondering , you are the queen and you never spoke out to protect Meghan.

    • Nyro says:

      I had no idea that Philip’s dad was possibly bisexual. That would have been incredibly scandalous in Philip’s day, socially crippling really. And I think it reveals a lot about his treatment of Charles. I honestly think that because Charles was more sensitive and into the arts as opposed to sports and other rugged things, Philip probably thought his son was gay. He essentially spent Charles’ youth bullying the boy in order to toughen him up and “straighten” him out. Lots of generational stuff going on there but heaven forbid Harry dare speak to it in passing in a interview about mental health.

  63. Nedsdag says:

    The British Media has brainwashed its readers so much that it is extremely difficult to have any sort of legitimate discussion about what is going on in their country. A prime example is TikTok. I try to reason with those who say, “he’s left all that he knows” or “she’s a greedy, manipulative woman”. After a while, it makes you wonder if the UK will ever rid itself of this rigid system. I try to reason with them, but I might as well just grit my teeth, and once in a while comment. But it has become a hopeless cause.

    I will say this: there was actually a TikTok video made by a girl who found an interview Harry in the army where he stated he did not want to return to England because someone had leaked where he was stationed. This was WAY BEFORE he met Meghan. But don’t tell the English sheeple this. Even the more sympathetic BM who are sometimes pro-Harry when they’re not spousing republicanism, you still read comments spewing how “Meghan has gone to his head”. I tell you, it’s a losing battle, even when H&M is doing something good.