Alan Moore: Comic Culture is infantilizing & often a ‘precursor to fascism’

I’d never really put it together that Alan Moore, a British comic writer, wrote Watchmen, V for Vendetta, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, From Hell and Swamp Thing. Genuinely did not know that he created ALL of those comics. Alan Moore is currently retired from the comics business and he lives a quiet, peaceful life in Northampton, England. He’s currently promoting a short story collection – like, real prose – called Illuminations. Thus, he chatted with the Guardian about books, history, the internet and comic book culture. His comments are fascinating.

He’s done with the comic industry: “I’m definitely done with comics. I haven’t written one for getting on for five years. I will always love and adore the comics medium but the comics industry and all of the stuff attached to it just became unbearable.”

The superhero genre has eaten the culture: “Hundreds of thousands of adults [are] lining up to see characters and situations that had been created to entertain the 12-year-old boys – and it was always boys – of 50 years ago. I didn’t really think that superheroes were adult fare. I think that this was a misunderstanding born of what happened in the 1980s – to which I must put my hand up to a considerable share of the blame, though it was not intentional – when things like Watchmen were first appearing. There were an awful lot of headlines saying ‘Comics Have Grown Up’. I tend to think that, no, comics hadn’t grown up. There were a few titles that were more adult than people were used to. But the majority of comics titles were pretty much the same as they’d ever been. It wasn’t comics growing up. I think it was more comics meeting the emotional age of the audience coming the other way.”

He thinks Comic Culture is infantilizing. “I said round about 2011 that I thought that it had serious and worrying implications for the future if millions of adults were queueing up to see Batman movies. Because that kind of infantilisation – that urge towards simpler times, simpler realities – that can very often be a precursor to fascism.” He points out that when Trump was elected in 2016, and “when we ourselves took a bit of a strange detour in our politics”, many of the biggest films were superhero movies.

He’s glad to see the Guy Fawkes mask has been co-opted by protest movements: “I can’t endorse everything that people who take that mask as an icon might do in the future, of course. But I’m heartened to see that it has been adopted by protest movements so widely across the world. Because we do need protest movements now, probably more than we’ve ever done before.”

On the internet: “When the internet first became a thing. I made the decision that this doesn’t sound like anything that I need. I had a feeling that there might be another shoe to drop – and regarding this technology, as it turned out, there was an Imelda Marcos wardrobe full of shoes to drop. I felt that if society was going to morph into a massive social experiment, then it might be a good idea if there was somebody outside the petri dish.”

[From The Guardian]

I mean… he’s not wrong. I’m sure the comic bros and comic girls are already preparing their dissertations about why Comic Culture is brilliant and everyone needs it, but yeah… I genuinely find the wall-to-wall comic franchises to be infantilizing and I think Moore is making strong points. From what I can see, superhero films and “comic culture” are not treated as pure “family/kids entertainment” anymore. They’re actively sold to adults as some kind of panacea. I’ve been waiting for the f–king bottom to drop out but it probably won’t happen. Again, I’m not saying – and Moore is not saying – that people can’t enjoy things. If you love those movies, God bless. But I genuinely think Moore is correct, that there’s an over-reliance on simplistic superhero narratives and that it doesn’t bode well for society or culture.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.

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32 Responses to “Alan Moore: Comic Culture is infantilizing & often a ‘precursor to fascism’”

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  1. Lady Baden-Baden says:

    Never thought I’d see Alan Moore on Celebitchy! His Watchmen and From Hell are both brilliant!

    And yes – he speaks a lot of sense. Will read the interview – thanks.

  2. TIFFANY says:

    I see where he is coming from. It went from being an enjoyable two hours to turn off your brain to the volatile behavior we see from ‘fans’ on social media.

    • Betsy says:

      If I’m reading him correctly I think that his larger message isn’t that people turn their brains off for two hours of la la land time, it’s that they never really turn their brains on and engage in a mature way with adult issues and expect everything to be fun and dumpy like a super hero type movie. Fair enough. How many people don’t vote or pay any attention to current events?

  3. Hannah says:

    Couldn’t agree more with his sentiments.

  4. Delphine says:

    I think his work transcends its medium. Watchmen particularly. However, I have zero interest in any of the comic book franchise movies. The only reason I watch is because my kid wants to see them. Which after reading Alan’s comments I’m less inclined to think is a good thing. All of these movies contain straight up propaganda.

    • mauve says:

      I think if we’re able to teach about propaganda *first*, then dive into comics with awareness, then there’s no reason to block the entire genre. Might seem daunting to teach the youts about propaganda but the alternative is scarily knocking at our door.

      • AMA1977 says:

        This is really interesting to me. I have an almost 15 year-old, and he has kind of almost “outgrown” the genre already. He’ll still go see the latest superhero movie with friends (but he and his friend group see just about EVERY movie on offer, just like my friends and I did when we were kids) but he doesn’t idolize any of the characters. I do think that adults who immerse themselves in these fantasy worlds *are* seeking an escape from the realities of adulthood, and absolutely is not healthy for life to be nothing but escape. We are responsible for creating and maintaining the world we want to inhabit, and if a significant portion of the population refuses to carry their weight, well, look around you.

        We’ve always talked to our kids (10 and 14) about how to evaluate trustworthy sources of information, how delicate our democracy is and our responsibilities to each other, the importance of educational curiosity and the harm that comes from “othering.” Tradeoff of having two parents who make their living in the legal profession. These are important lessons for everyone to learn. Two hours at the movies is fine, great, enjoy!! Living life like Captain America is going to swoop in and save us all is…not.

  5. dawnchild says:

    Thanks for covering this…thought-provoking…and largely true of the relentless onslaught of Marvel stories, spinoffs, prequels and what not.

    This throwback/infantilization of issues by using a comicbook narrative for mythology is happening everywhere. For instance, the hazy image of the ‘ideal Indian kingdom under a righteous Hindu king’ underpins what Modi’s fascist regime is trying to create…and the storytelling in Bollywood is complicit… see, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/10/17/when-the-hindu-right-came-for-bollywood

    • Shak says:

      Totally agree Dawnchild. Also, the New Yorker article was a real eye opener for me. I’m a non practising Muslim and couldn’t put my finger on why I was feeling icky watching Bollywood films the last few years until I read that article which contextualised my feelings.

      Incidentally, I live in Northampton too and used to see Alan Moore in town every now and then. He is a local legend for sure. So articulate and gets to the crux of some issues facing society today.

  6. Nyro says:

    He’s right. I’ve always found it completely strange how enraged MCU fanatics get anytime their precious little movies are criticized. These people wanted Scorsese’s head on a platter for saying Iron Man wasn’t cinema. It’s ridiculous.

    • Erin says:

      Agreed but I also think there are a lot of fandoms out there like this and I will never understand it. Getting on the internet to attack/rant/throw a tantrum because someone doesn’t like the same entertainment/art that you do is totally effed up and bizarre imo. IMAGINE if these people put all of that energy toward something worthwhile like childhood hunger, homelessness, human rights etc. There’s people that are dying.

  7. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    Because the shit we’re facing as adults is too big for our brains to wrap around, escapism in any form is preferable to the masses. Batman did not make half of America think Democrats are eating children. Superman did not encourage millions to endorse a tyrant with a first grade education. Superheroes solve problems. Who’s actually solving our problems? I’m no superhero or comic book advocate, but there are far more villains walking the streets than superheroes. And the reason more adults are into the genre is because parents actually do things with their kids. In the 50s, parents didn’t do shit. They drank, took pills and judged. Women and MEN are raising their kids together as teams and watching movies together has always been fun. Duh. Conflating entertainment with politics is a problem.

    And personally, I have seen a slight reduction in superhero watching. In fact my 16yo son asked to be dropped off at a comic store for reading. Reading!

    • Ellen says:

      I mean, I think he’s saying that the issue with the comics genre is exactly that — in comics, the only people who can solve problems are either genetically superior (Superman, Spiderman, etc.) or astonishingly wealthy (Iron Man, Batman, etc.). In comics, reality is so simple that one “special” person can solve all the problems, and this sort of thinking is what can be viewed as a precursor to fascism.

      • Mabs A'Mabbin says:

        I remember a similar conversation with my mother once lol. Certainly not about comics but rock music. Like statistics, reading between lines can make any possibility feasible. The bible promotes fascism.

  8. maggi says:

    Thoroughly enjoyed what this man had to say about the internet. I had a similar feeling when cel phones came out. I resolved not to get one and have stuck by that. Even though society is making it harder and harder to function without a pocket-babbler, it has become an operating principle in my life to live with a landline. Hey iPhone social experiment, here’s me living without you and doing fine. (Luddite humble brag).

    • Lizzie Bathory says:

      “pocket-babbler”! I’m dying.

    • Betsy says:

      I held out as long as I could, but christ if having the ability to look things up/be in contact with friends (especially during covid and when I lived away from friends and family)/in general feel like I have a lifeline isn’t great.

      Still have my landline though! I refuse to talk on my cell phone (except to my elderly uncle who just dials the first number for me his phone offers). And I still write snail mail letters, too. Luddites for the win!

      • maggi says:

        I cannot remember the last time I received a handwritten letter and it used to be a forte of mine, including personalized envelope. I am going to dig around for a stamp and send one off. Thanks for the reminder Betsy!

    • Desdemona says:

      Three years ago in a school we had a project in which my students who were learning German exchanged “snail” letters with kids from Germany… It was really interesting and the kids (8th graders – 13 yo) really liked it… They would write letters and glue information about our country, their hometown, typical cooking recipes …

  9. MaryContrary says:

    I totally agree. The only reason I’ve ever watched Marvel movies is as a family outing with my kids. My one friend who is really into all of it totally has black and white thinking, is a right winger, uber Catholic.

  10. Lizzie Bathory says:

    I agree with him, though I think comic culture is only the latest iteration of this problem in storytelling.

    The idea of centering stories on supermen/heroes goes back a long time–to the myths that eventually became the first recorded stories in many ancient cultures. And then there was the “great man” version of history most of us are taught. It’s no coincidence that Greek myths (for instance) & more contemporary history often feature men triumphing in violent conflicts. Fascist tendencies are a feature, not a bug, in the white western storytelling tradition.

    • Betsy says:

      I’m not super familiar with Greek mythology (took a high school class) and only have a passing familiarity with Norse myths, but I feel like characters in the Greek pantheon were constantly getting tested and failing and being punished? Icarus springs to mind for one. Lots of cautionary tales.

      • Lizzie Bathory says:

        Yes, many were, but the gods, of course, were all-powerful at the end of the day. And (forgive me, I studied ancient Greek & Latin) I was also thinking of the heroes from the epics, which were sort of proto-comics in that they had their own universes populated by great heroes like Achilles, Patroclus, Ajax, Hector, Odysseus, etc.

  11. Anony83 says:

    I’m not going to get into it but I’m not sure why people get so worked up about adults having fun. Not everything has to be deep.

  12. Petra (Brazen Archetyped Phenomenal Woman) says:

    Sadly, the sci-fi genre is going the same way. Most of the recent sci-fi movies are an action pack explosive spectacles.

  13. Dahlia says:

    This seems like an incredible amount of overreach. Seriously, people enjoy superhero movies and comics culture and then expect the world to be simplistic? I’m a 50 year old left wing political junkie who also happens to love superhero movies. They’re fun and a way to spend a couple of hours enjoying yourself. I seriously doubt if you went to a Trump rally and asked a bunch of MAGAs or Q nuts about their ideology, it would all be about Iron Man or Superman. Is this country in serious need education, hell yes, but blaming it on some fluff is kind of ridiculous.

  14. Franklin B says:

    Whenever I get invited to go see a comic movie, in my head I always think ‘no thanks, I am a grown up…’ However, in real life, I just say ‘no thanks, I haven’t seen any of the other ones, so I won’t be able to follow the plot’

  15. SammiB says:

    I love what this man is saying! He’s absolutely right. Firstly that superhero movies are basically good guy vs bad guy & good triumphs. Usually with violence & lawlessness. There’s no nuance. In times of hardship humans are prone to follow a charismatic saviour who provides a bad guy for us to blame for our wrongs. It’s a short march from there to fascism.

    I wish I had his strength of will because I’m writing this on my iPhone lol but the internet is a Pandora’s Box. It 100% has turned out pretty shit but it’s too late to close it now

  16. Beana says:

    “I’m sure the comic bros and comic girls are already preparing their dissertations about why Comic Culture is brilliant and everyone needs it, but yeah…”

    This is my favorite online community and I come here to start my day with the latest gossip and a great group of gossips. I love comics and comic book movies; I think they explore things about humanity AND I find them escapist and entertaining. I’m definitely not a fascist (I see the rise of fascism in our society but I don’t see these stories promoting it). I think it’s a bit mean-spirited to call that enjoyment “infantile.” And if I try to say, “hey, I like this thing, let me tell you why I like it,” then I’m a “bro.”

    I’m sorry, but I was that nerdy, bespeckled kid in school that was mocked by the “cool kids” and this kind of pokes that old sore spot. A lot of us “nerds” grew up loving comics because they deal with people who feel different. If you don’t like them ..can you just leave it alone? Why does it feel good to insult it?

  17. Gil says:

    I totally agree with him. I like superheroes movies but they are just the popcorn I have at the movie theater: totally forgettable. Movies should make you think, should make you question yourself. We need big films like the Korean film “Parasite” , which I think about time to time. But we are currently stuck in the Marvel narrative that has already shaped a whole generation.