On Friday, a Democrat named Lucy Flores made some claims against Joe Biden, the former senator and vice president. Biden has been performing his Hamlet act for months, refusing to just come out and say that he’s running for president. I understood why he didn’t run in 2016, so soon after his son passed away, but at this point, I just want him to stop dithering and make up his mind. Not that I would support him if he ran – I feel that Biden’s time in public office is just over at this point. I also feel like his campaign would not withstand the current #MeToo era, and the conversations about consent and what is and is not appropriate.
Which brings me back to Lucy Flores. For years, we’ve known that Joe Biden can get creepy when he’s around women. He’s a touchy, grabby guy – he likes to hug, he likes to touch someone’s face, he likes to get really close to people (to be fair, to both men and women). Lucy Flores was running for lieutenant governor of Nevada in 2014 when then VP Biden came to campaign with her just a few days before the election. Flores describes what happened in the holding room before they stepped on stage for the rally:
I found my way to the holding room for the speakers, where everyone was chatting, taking photos, and getting ready to speak to the hundreds of voters in the audience. Just before the speeches, we were ushered to the side of the stage where we were lined up by order of introduction. As I was taking deep breaths and preparing myself to make my case to the crowd, I felt two hands on my shoulders. I froze. “Why is the vice-president of the United States touching me?”
I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual f–k? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?” He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head. My brain couldn’t process what was happening. I was embarrassed. I was shocked. I was confused. There is a Spanish saying, “tragame tierra,” it means, “earth, swallow me whole.” I couldn’t move and I couldn’t say anything. I wanted nothing more than to get Biden away from me. My name was called and I was never happier to get on stage in front of an audience.
By then, as a young Latina in politics, I had gotten used to feeling like an outsider in rooms dominated by white men. But I had never experienced anything so blatantly inappropriate and unnerving before. Biden was the second-most powerful man in the country and, arguably, one of the most powerful men in the world. He was there to promote me as the right person for the lieutenant governor job. Instead, he made me feel uneasy, gross, and confused. The vice-president of the United States of America had just touched me in an intimate way reserved for close friends, family, or romantic partners — and I felt powerless to do anything about it.
Flores goes on to describe how she felt that Biden’s actions were “demeaning and disrespectful,” and how inappropriate the whole thing was in a professional setting. I believe Lucy Flores. I believe her and I believe any and every woman who comes out and says that Biden made her uncomfortable. We’ve seen that time and time again with him – it’s like he has no personal space, or he doesn’t believe women should have personal space. He doesn’t understand what’s appropriate and professional.
Anyway, the immediate reaction from the Biden camp to Ms. Flores was that Biden’s spokesman dismissed her and claimed that Biden had no idea what she was talking about. Then Joe Biden offered this statement: “In my many years on the campaign trail and in public life, I have offered countless handshakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort. And not once – never – did I believe I acted inappropriately. If it is suggested I did so, I will listen respectfully. But it was never my intention.” I believe that HE believes he never acted inappropriately. But that’s because he’s done it to countless women, many of whom were too uncomfortable to say much of anything. Plus, it happens to women more often than men understand – I’m sure every woman has multiple stories about a guy who stands too close, who hugs when he should handshake, who invades our personal space, and on and on.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
Yup. I am glad this is coming out now. He’s totally inappropriate and he needs to take a step back and not run.
I don’t think he’s a predator, although sadly as we know anyone could be. I do think he has absolutely no awareness of personal space, no respect for people’s bodies, no common courtesy with his hands! So yeah, he’s done.
Frankly, I’m torn. Yes, he’s creepy AF, but he may be the most experienced candidate and the one most likely to win against Trump. And then you look at Trump and other Republicans and how the Republicans propped them up. Then I get angry at myself, because I think that my own implicit bias (against women of color or women in general) may be making me think this way.
At this point I think Biden is the ONLY candidate who can win against Trump despite with the Bernie Bros are trying to sell. I live in the deep South and my entire county went for Trump in 2016. I see Trump signs all the time, and because I run my own business I run into a lot of Trump supporters. I don’t dare talk about my political affiliations for fear I’ll lose a customer.
And while I may have white privilege because I’m a red-headed person of Irish descent. I’m also LGBTQ and Jewish. If most of my clients knew that I wouldn’t have a business down here. At this point I will vote for Satan himself if he gets Trump out of office.
The reality is Bernie cannot win in the Midwest and the deep South. While there are pockets of progressiveness most of the good old boys will never vote for Bernie. So unless we want another 4 years of Trump the Democratic Party needs to get behind a candidate who can crush 45.
I just feel like the more people keep repeating this notion that only a white man can win, the more it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Left loves to hamstring ourselves with that kind of rhetoric.
I remember a couple years ago when my only requirement for a 2020 candidate was that they beat Trump….
….that’s no longer enough for me.
If we nominate Biden or a more moderate candidate we might score in 2020 but we’ll be right back to Trumpism in 2024. Right now in this very historic (and horrific) time in American political history, we have the perfect opportunity to vote for someone who has a progressive, thoughtful and FEASIBLE platform. We finally have the grassroots enthusiasm needed to collectively shift the Overton window away from rightwing extremism and further towards progressivism.
And *IF* we are able to get a candidate in the White House, I want someone who’s gonna to go to work fixing the mess that Trump will inevitably leave behind. That person HAS to be willing to take bold, calculated, potentially divisive/unpopular steps to clean up this disaster and start to put a stranglehold on GOP power.
Given that, IMO Biden’s candidacy is not the one we need right now.
There are a lot more candidates out there – good, quality candidates – than Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Beto O’Rourke. Gosh I wonder why all the focus is on them.
Also, it’s still a year out.
Looking forward to the first few debates and all the subsequent debates, too.
@Kitten
I wish I felt like you, but I don’t because I strongly feel Trump is going to win again unless the Dems put up someone who can beat him. Trump’s supporters forgive, overlook and justify every mistake he makes. The election is his to lose, not the Dems to win. The Dems need to find someone who can win. I’m not sure it’s Biden, but hopefully someone will emerge.
The Reps know that the Dems don’t have a prayer’s chance in hell of winning with a far-left candidate, so I smell a big Rep rat in amongst the voices calling for the Dem party to go far left.
@FHMom- I don’t believe it’s his election to lose. He’s more than halfway through his presidency and his approval numbers are still stagnant, despite the stock market trending upwards. People are sick of his sh*t.
Also, if you want to repeat your anxiety every election from now till eternity then vote for a moderate candidate who doesn’t believe in abolishing the EC. There is so much we can do if we take advantage of all the energy that’s been generated from the most awful presidency of our lifetime. The absolute BIGGEST mistake we could make is voting for the same ol’ same ol’.
@Himmiefan-What you call “far-left” is just LEFT, straight-up. Only in the United States is moderate neoliberalism considered “left” and right-wing extremism considered “right” SMDH.
I agree with you, Kitten. I reject the idea that we need a white man to beat Trump. And that even if it were true we’re not really that much better off. As for Biden himself, between the Hill hearings and this creepy touching stuff, and his unwillingness to admit that he was wrong, I’m really against him. I believe Lucy and am glad she spoke up.
Biden isn’t creepy. A few selectively edited clips doesn’t make you creepy. This is a concerted effort to make the Democratic front runner look bad.
Biden has been in public life for decades, in a business where it’s to your advantage to slash and burn you opponents, and this is only coming out now?
@ Muffy-People have been talking about Biden’s touchiness for years–YEARS. A LOT of us have been warning that he would face a reckoning about his inappropriate behavior should he seek a 2020 candidacy.
This is not unexpected at all.
Now, I don’t know how much of it is benign and just Biden being a “touchy” guy or if it’s indicative of something more sinister. But for me it doesn’t really matter. If women feel like he overstepped his boundaries or didn’t respect their space then that’s wrong. Doesn’t mean that Biden is a terrible person, but he SHOULD have to reconcile his past behavior if he’s going to move forward.
@Kitten: I totally agree. A Biden presidency would, at most, briefly staunch the bleeding (especially re: judicial appointments, which continue at an increasingly alarming rate)
Even before 2024, we’d have the 2022 elections and….I mean, given how poor Dem turnout tends to be during midterms, do we really think that Biden, his policies, his vision (LOL), his “sue me, I like Republicans!” attitude would inspire Democrats to come out in droves? Get usual non-voters to come out because he’s managed to inspire and engage them? Because it seems more likely to me that a lot of that grassroots enthusiasm will have dissipated/turned to apathy & complacency and a far more energized Republican base would hand control of Congress to the GOP. And well, good luck getting anything past McConnell or whatever demon replaces him.
Agree with every single word, D, all of it.
Kitten, you can shake your head or you can be a realist. You’re not going to beat Trump with a left candidate, only with a centrist.
How do you define centrist though? I personally feel bernie cannot win, but is that because he is too far left or because of the literal communist background he has, much of it on video? I mean, once his breadlines video hits, he is done. He is one news cycle and done, and I’ve always said that. (I have also, like Kitten, long said Biden cannot survive the metoo awakening).
But if too far left means, comes out for abolishing the EC, for stacking the supreme court, I say bring it on, I am ready to have that fight.
Joe Biden couldn’t even beat Sarah Palin in a debate. We need a fighter in 2020, not an aw shucks push over.
@ Himmiefan-Repeating that over and over again doesn’t make it any more rooted in reality. I’m not voting for a candidate because you or anyone else tells me to. I’m voting for the candidate that most inspires ME and that is NOT Uncle Joe. Sorrynotsorry.
There’s so much video of him doing this repeatedly to tens of women and CHILDREN in who look frozen in their tracks, awkward smiles plastered on their faces, surrounded by other powerful people and several cameras who are further making them “behave” because they don’t want to be the one to make a final, especially since he’s like that with everyone and it’s “just Joe”.
I liked him before I saw those videos, but I cannot ever vote for him if he ran, based solely on those videos. No way.
The photos of him kissing women on the lips are so skeevy. I can’t believe someone hasn’t schooled him on how inappropriate that is.
There was a video of him doing this handsy stuff with young girls that circulated on tumblr years ago. It was so utterly disturbing to me because the incidents were very blatant and public. It’s vital this kind of unacceptable behavior be exposed. Those of us on the left really need to do a better job of seeing past the surface level feel-good manipulations of the neoliberal machine and criticize our ‘favs’ at both a personal and policy level.
Uncle Joe also has a bad habit of swimming in the nude in front of an all-female Secret Service detail. Masher.
I agree, CharliePenn. I know one can never really tell, but he seems rather old-school, and not deliberately being inappropriate. I’m in Australia, and saw the footage this morning. While in his old man head it might be entirely innocent, it still looked pretty creepy. Whether in professional or social settings, this is just not on. Keep your hands to yourself, stay in your space and there will be no ambiguity.
On a similar note, I was watching the early morning news on our national broadcaster today. They showed footage of Queen o Everything, Jacinda Ardern, the NZ Prime Minister, greeting dignities after the official memorial ceremony last Friday. As our scumbag prime minister approached from the side, JA extended her hand to shake his. Nah-uh. The gronk took it upon himself to dive in for a hug. Not a gentle, sedate embrace to convey compassion, sorrow, understanding and solidarity, either. Noooooooo. He went the full bear-hug, as if he were celebrating a winning goal with one of his beloved boofhead footballer mates. How bloody cringe. Just like a true bogan. What an embarrassment. This prompted an pn-going discussion about whether it’s appropriate to hug everyone you meet or think you know well enough to do so. No. Family and close friends, fine, although a couple of mine are not into hugging. Anyone else? No. Shake hands, pump fists, high fives or whatever, until your relationship develops to hugging, if it ever does.
“How bloody cringe. Just like a true bogan.”
AnnaKist: I love you.
Signed, a fellow long-suffering Australian.
He had to get that hug to one-up Waleed 🙄
Biden’s got a long, problematic, patriarchal history of lacking appropriate physical boundaries, rather than being sociopathically predatory like Trump, Weiner, so many others. As he and his people get dismissive and defensive about his behaviors instead of owning them, he loses my respect and I feel like he loses a significant shot at redemption and rebound from this. Although I prefer a different Dem for president, I truly like and admire Biden for many reasons, and I’d readily forgive his highly inappropriate actions — if only he’d fully own them and apologize like a courageous badass. Why is that so damn hard for so many?
That’s it I am beyond depressed now. I think Canada is looking like a good idea, because Donald Trump is going to be President till 2024. This isn’t a story, and shouldn’t be a thing. Democrats will kill their own way before the grab em by the P**y Trump even gets a chance to attack. Even she admitted it wasn’t sexual harassment or a metoo moment, but yet here we go. Unless the US wants to install a Kindergarten no touch rule for adults, which eliminates all hugging, touching it’s not a thing. Guess what I don’t want the Kindergarten rule for adults. You know why as an adult I can speak up and say don’t do that, and I’m fine with that being the way to, and bet most of America is with me and not with you. I’m not a young child who doesn’t understand. I like hugs from co-workers and I don’t mind the kiss on the head either. However, oddly considering my hugging stance, I can’t stand when people get too close to me for more than a short hug, and if Donald Trump did what he did to Hillary Clinton to me at the debate I would not have liked it. You know what I would have done though, tell him to step back, and if I didn’t I would say that was on me some too. When did we abdicate people communicating. You need to communicate, and I feel a lot of independent voting people think this way. I’m sorry if people are going to regulate everything even human communication, I find that crazy beyond belief. Trust me I’m as far left as you go on almost any scale, and this is nuts. There are reasons to not vote for Biden, this isn’t one of them. This is sad as we need to discuss real issues, instead we are just falling into the same trap. This scares the crap out of me, and not cause I want Biden. Guess what Kamala won’t be black enough, Mayor Pete is not gay enough, Amy is too strong and mean, Bernie is too Vermont white, etc. There will be something wrong with all of them, and we are stuck with Trump. Thanks, I now need more valium.
“Guess what Kamala won’t be black enough, Mayor Pete is not gay enough, Amy is too strong and mean, Bernie is too Vermont white, etc.”
If this is how the average Dem voter is viewing a candidate’s electability then they deserve what they get.
Look, Liz Warren made a very public misstep and was rightfully criticized for it. She took responsibility, atoned, and apologized. She has made it a point to consistently elevate the various plights that affect the NA community. I decided that was good enough for me in light of her platform, which out of EVERY candidate is the most detailed and comprehensive in terms of bold, progressive policy that addresses the issues that most matter to me.
The more minor point I’m making here is that I didn’t cancel her because of her DNA shitshow and the major point I’m making is that she’s getting my vote because of POLICY not because “she’s not ____ (Native American?) enough”.
This is a wild concept but maybe instead of voting for the person that the media, Twitter pundits, or useless polls (remember the Gallup had Obama losing to Clinton at this point in 2007) tell you is *The Only One Who Can Beat Trump* you vote for the candidate who’s policy platform (“what’s THAT?”) most appeals to you. That might not be the person who is MSM’s shiny new object or the old guy that reminds everyone of the Obama years but actually the candidate that you think–that you TRUST– will make this country a better place.
@ Kitten- we both live in fairly progressive areas…at least I believe you do & I hope you’re right. But I honestly don’t share your optimism. I know too many Democrats that say unless it’s Bernie Sanders, they are either voting 3rd party again, staying home or voting for Trump. That’s a reality. Biden leads both Bernie & Trump right now in the polls & I wouldn’t be surprised if the timing of the Flores speaking out wasn’t engineered in an attempt to knock Biden out. Any candidate will have to expect this & I doubt few of them will have the experience to handle Trump. He fights dirty. That’s a reality few here realize. I do understand what you’re saying about policy & what’s good for the country. Getting rid of Trump is 100% what’s good for this country, though.
There’s video of Biden doing this, over many years. He’s aggressive and handsy and there was coverage of it. People just finally care to notice. His record and actions continually show his contempt of and disregard for women. Just watch some of the Anita Hill hearings.
He very much plays the touchy feely grandpa and its extremely uncomfortable. I say this as someone who loved Obama and Biden together. He should not run, there are so many clips that did not age well at all, and never should have been okay to begin with
Please do not run, give us a chance
As “benign” as his problem with boundaries may be, I hope that we all address these issues with the men that we encounter who invade our space/sensibilities and educate them…e.g., “Joe Biden: I need to let you know that it’s not ok for you to kiss me anywhere or put your hands on me at all other than a greeting or parting handshake”. I make it a point to. I have words no matter who is in ear shot. It can be done quite diplomatically or in my case matter of factly. One creep even did this when I was pregnant 25 years ago. It was a vendor in our firm that I had to deal with daily. He was constantly trying to pick me up in a skeevy way. When it was crystal clear that he wasn’t going to stop, I told him “I am in no way interested in you. Beyond that I now have contempt for you given the fact that I am married and pregnant. You have made me uncomfortable in my place of business and I am going to recommend that you be fired”. The partners of our firm gave me the green light to get rid of him. My only regret, is that I didn’t blow his doors off with my dragon mouth the first time he spoke that way to me, so when this type of inappropriate behavior came up later I just straight up say, “keep your hands off of me please!” or “you cannot speak to me that way–stay away from me and do not speak to me at all”
Truly you must be able to see the difference between speaking up to a vendor at your firm and the Vice President of the United States. I mean, a vendor for christ’s sake…not even a client or whatnot.
While every woman deserves to be heard, the MeToo movement is being used as a weapon against Democrats. The comments on reddit, Twitter, 4chan, etc are all the same—“go to YouTube” and look at videos proving Biden is some kind of perv (which I don’t believe). There have been doctored photos passed around those channels, too.
The Russians/GOP know that dems take this issue seriously, and the GOP does not ( hi, Roy Moore!) and has all of these attack lines ready to go against a man who has been in the public eye for decades and is one of the Dems strongest candidates. Any claims have to be viewed through that lens, too.
I ain’t scared. I know my footing here, and I am on concrete ground. When it comes to women’s bodily autonomy, it doesn’t matter if it’s the ruskies or the gop rat***kers…like Captain America, I can do this all day.
But you should be aware, that we are not much up to ruskies and gop rat***kers yet. Most hit jobs you will see are coming from other dems in the field.
The Bernie camp for one huge example, has hired some of the most vile, dishonest, hacks on the left, Sirota being only the most obvious of those. And they are hitting other dems all day long and twice on Sundays. When the attack looks so slimy you think it might be Ruskie, that’s when you know it came from the Bern camp. And even with all that, my feet are still standing on concrete ground and I ain’t scared of making a mistake.
To your last paragraph– for me, Briahna Joy Gray is the worst. I used to follow her because I liked some of what she has to say but unfollowed her a while ago (before she got Sanders’s comms position) because of her incessant hit jobs on other Dem candidates. I recently saw on Twitter that she had an old (and now-deleted) tweet in response to a picture of John Lewis playing with his cats. She replied to him something like “Come on, John, you know would throw those cats under the bus if the DNC asked you to.”
She came for JOHN EFFIN LEWIS AND HIS CATS. Cancelled forever.
Yeah she is awful Kitten. I did not know about that tweet to Lewis though, wow.
The movement should be used to expose bad behavior everywhere, even against my “beloved Democrats”. Just because it Renee to side that way doesn’t mean u will ignore someone touching strangers so much and clearly stomping boundaries.
I voted for Obama Biden both terms, but after I did indeed “go to YouTube” and watch undoctored video of photoshoots, I have to suck it up and be fair, and expect the same thing from either side, no matter who they are. I won’t overlook someone’s bad behavior because they are liberal, and condemn someone more conservative for the same behavior. That’s denial, and it’s unhealthy for everyone.
Thank you!
Amen, Wilady. Bad behavior is bad behavior and we don’t have a chance of stopping it until we call it out all the time, even when it’s someone on “our” side. A lot of the religious right has apparently made that kind of deal with their willingness to support Trump and it’s going to hurt them in the end.
As a woman, I’m not interested in candidates who don’t consider my bodily autonomy important. The violation of boundaries is the start of the dehumanization process for most women. The Democratic party has plenty of sexism, racism, etc. it needs to work out in the coming years, or we’re going to be going nowhere in the long run.
I am in complete agreement with this. I will never vote for Joe Biden in a Democratic primary because of his actions during the Anita Hill hearings and because of his record on abortion rights and criminal justice and education system integration (and failure to atone for same). A no-go from me. Of course I will vote for him if he is the Democratic nominee, but I absolutely refuse to help him get there.
#MeToo is being used as a Weapon ur right. I still can’t believe the double standard the GOP has holding Dems responsible for this behavior but when a GOP is accused they overlook it and still vote for them. Im so disappointed the GOP kept supporting Roy Moore. Not surprised at all but so disappointed
That’s understandable. Some of the ways they’ve tried to exploit the #Metoo movement- like with the Jacob Wohl situation- do have me a little nervous. It was brave of Lucy Flores to speak up about this though and I believe her too.
So many men are like this, no respect for women’s personal space and body autonomy …ugh.
Yup, totally agree.
Flores is on the board of Bernie’s Our Revolution. They are working to weaken Dem candidates so Bernie can get traction. Sorry, but I think it’s a setup. Even something as important as the MeToo message can be used to smear candidates.
Yes, but both things can be true. Unfortunately I have watched creepy joe be, well, creepy, for way too long. He is a hard no from me. And no means no! (also I believe she WAS on the board. From what I understand she no longer is. She also came out to support the woman who says she was harrassed on Bernie’s campaign, so…)
i believe flores is stumping for o’rourke now?
Is she? That would make this even worse, because I have seen so many dems framing this as if she is a current OR board member.
What if I told you she were politicking for Warren? Would that be even worse? Surely, she is planning on supporting *someone* who is not the man she believes was too handsy with her, so I don’t think that can really be used against her…
Is this new news? Anyone who has seen creepy Uncle Joe in an official setting surely has seen how inappropriate he is. Most if not all the times, the women are leaning away from him when he moves closer, body language always gives it away.
The shoulder rubs, the whispering near the ear, the leaning in….never liked creepy uncle Joe then, do not like him now. The man has no concept, or he chooses to ignore personal boundaries with women, shame on him!
I am so happy she said something, he is beyond offensive and it’s about damn time someone called him out on his inappropriate touching. There are so many videos out there of him acting like this.
Google “joe Biden creepy”. He’s been like it for years with many women, from elderly to children. I honestly don’t think he sees a problem with his behaviour. Someone needs to sit him down, show him all the videos and pictures of his interactions with women over the years and really point out how inappropriate he’s been. He shouldn’t run for president, too old, too much baggage
This goes back to the argument of how the MeToo movement often excludes WOC. Yes you can have times where you allow people in your personal space but you can also have times where that invasion is unwanted. If she felt uncomfortable she should be allowed to expressed that without being dragged about it. I’m sure there’s women out there that will meet this with a shrug but it doesn’t mean it’s okay.
Uncle Joe’s gross behavior aside, I find it interesting that this issue is arising so soon after reports surfaced that Trump was asking advisers if Biden was a candidate to fear in 2020, and a hypothetical poll showed Biden leading Trump by 7pts. Add in Trump calling Joe a Low IQ individual, and it’s clear he’s got Trump shook. Curious that this old news about his problem behavior is getting loud coverage at exactly this moment. Not defending Joe or saying he should run. Just find this interesting timing.
And Kellyanne Conway conveniently had her Biden-bashing comment ready for TV on cue right after Flores’ claim. Horseshoe in full effect? We all need to study disinformation methods and how they’re used to create faux left and right sides who share the same messages. It’s significant that in both the 2016 campaign and now we are seeing the Democrats attacked with this method, and never the Republicans or Independents. After they get Biden shoved out with this method, which Dem candidate is attacked next?
Bernie had to shade him as well right after the story broke of course.
Bernie and his gang rape essays and medical advice to teenage girls to have sex to prevent cancer can take a seat. Oh he was a kid? NO he was not. just because Bernie didn’t get a job till he was 40 dont make 37 youthful indiscretions.
@Darla – LOL!!! Bernie has not worked a ‘real job’ in his life.
True.
He has a history of smelling people’s heads. Just looking for a new hair donor.
I feel like there are a lot stories like that about Biden. He just has no concept of personal space. And there are a lot of people like that and not only men. I have a female acquaintance who is like that. I feel like she just oversteps each time to show her appreciation but this not how it come off or feels to me. Also while we are at it, can I just notice that many grownups also completely ignore the space of kids. My kid asked a neighbour yesterday, why is he touching his hair and it was the first time I realized toddlers probably have some intuition about personal space but then grownups ignore it and overstep it all the time. Fast forward to when toddlers become men and they start doing this to women and can’t understand why it is wrong.
I loathe the idea that women just have to put up with this because on the “scale” it’s not “that big a deal”. I had a superior who constantly touched my shoulder when I was first working as a lawyer and I fucking hated it. But I stayed silent. Because he was “of that time”.
I have 3 daughters and heaven help any man who thinks they can lay hands on them in any environment where they aren’t consenting.
I knew his behavior would raise its ugly head as soon as he announced, however, it did not take him announcing for this to come up. Considering we have a sexual predictor in the White House 🏠 it should not. My opinion is, his behavior is really creepy to the receiver, I would be creeped out by a man coming behind me and kissing my hair and blowing in my hair, creepy! Everything considered, I would not want joe to enter, I’m thinking to let the younger people in the party shine. I’m thinking in about 3 months we will have a good indication of whom will be running and then we can pick the best candidate.
This is precisely the reason why I’ve hoped Joe won’t run. I keep seeing in my mind that clip of him doing the same shoulder squeeze to Angela Merkel at a conference—her reaction encapsulated every woman’s reaction in that moment. Google it.
Both Joe and Bernie need to sit down. They missed their windows of opportunity. It’s time for new blood.
I thought it was W who did that? Did Creepy Joe do it too? My gawd per Angela.
It was George W Bush who decided to give Merkel a little “shoulder massage” and it was gross. But Biden has a long history of this behavior toward women, and we have to remember, sexual harassment and assault can begin with a “hug” or a “hair kiss” and escalate over time. His behavior, by normalizing these first stages, enables much worse.
I would have been shot by the SS for giving him an elbow to his gut. And screaming for him to F off out of my space.
And I pray Sanders goes far away. Sick of him and his routine. We need good solid NEW blood in the Whitehouse.
Hilarious! The Secret Service already knows about dirty Joe so they would probably look the other way.
I’ve seen the videos and I don’t know how he gets away with it. There’s video of him stroking a little girl’s hair, whispering in another one’s ear and then kissing her, kissing a child 2-3 times who clearly wanted nothing to do with him, etc, etc. I hope to heavens he doesn’t run. My mom thinks he’s just dandy because of his Obama bromance and is forgiving of him because he lost a son. I tried explaining to her about his inappropriate behavior, but I got nowhere. 🙄
At least he doesn’t “grab ‘em by the p****” like Mr. President
Do not be surprised if other revelations surface. Just because he’s not bragging about it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.
I love Joe. I BELIEVE Joe. I support Joe. Joe is the only person who will get my vote!
Okay Jill.
*snort*
Joe should just call it a day and not tarnish his legacy. He’s ahead because of name recognition but it’s early and I really don’t see him getting the nom.
His legacy of putting Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court, no, let’s not tarnish that.
Voted to let states overturn Roe. V Wade.
Anita Hill.
….shall we continue?
I think two women at this point whose pics of interactions with Biden have been used to duke the creepy Joe narrative have stepped up and say the pics are being taken out of context. They say that they felt supported in a stressful moment by Biden’s shoulder grab / pep talk ear whisper. So there’s that. I just don’t get how someone from his staff didn’t tell him to knock it off a long time ago. It’s so inappropriate. I also think Flores is in bed with Bernie’s or Beto’s people. So Biden need to keep his hands to himself, and the Dems need to stop eating their own. No one’s hands are clean here.
It’s not “eating your own” to say that a powerful man in your political party took advantage of his power to get inappropriately close and touch you in an unprofessional manner. There are norms, and he repeatedly violated them.
The misogyny rampant within the Bernie and Beto bro camps is disgusting and way worse than Binden’s tone def, old school, touchy feely problem. I won’t be surprised if this was orchestrated by one of the two. And I’m not a Biden fan by any stretch.
I’m not sure that it’s orchestrated but if it is, I don’t think it’s Beto’s camp. From what I’ve seen, attacking other candidates isn’t the Beto MO.
I agree with kitten, I don’t believe Beto is into that. I bet it’s more 45 trolls pretending to be Beto. Bernie gave Hillary such a hard time 2016 I’ll not forget . Btw, he has not showed his tax returned in 2016 when he was giving Hillary hell about Wall Street money. Btw, his wife has lots of underhanded money 💵 problem, another Don the Con but not half as bad.
@Kitten, Mayor Pete received over $7m last month, I have to watch him more. Kamala is falling and Elizabeth is stalled. It will be interesting in about six months.
Liz got a (small) bump in the polls last week actually. Still trailing Biden, Sanders, and O’Rourke though. Sigh. 🙁
Let’s also not forget Saint Bernie’s wife and son were using their foundation for their own personal pocketbook, just like “someone” else’s family. They had to shut it down pretty quickly when this came to light. Bernie is just as scummy in his own way as Don the Con. Don’t fool yourselves.
The problem is the norms don’t apply to both sides..the repubs will overlook every bit of misconduct, and the dems will accept none (and no, I’m not defending uncle Joe’s history)..but as mentioned before, Bernie’s fans (and much of the press) are following the right’s playbook by shrugging off his questionable $ pattern/campaign tactics. Both sides are playing the same game using a different rule book..we need an outbreak of common sense and decency to fix the problem.
@Aang – Ash Carter’s wife, Stephanie, has stated that Joe was supporting her in her stressful moment at her husband’s ceremony for Deputy Secretary of Defense. I call bull on this as the woman was leaning so far away from Joe’s lips I am surprised she did not fall out of a nearby open window. She is now being kind because the families know each other but I also would not be surprised if she was asked to make this statement to let him off the hook. Joe is a predator.
It seems to me like a different concept of personal space. I’ve had this reaction to both men and women in the past; I have a need for more personal space than a lot of people, and I used to work with a woman who was always trying to hug me and made me feel really uncomfortable. I also have had that feeling when interacting with people from other cultures who hug and kiss on the cheek when greeting (don’t feel it’s their issue though). This doesn’t rule out Biden for me.
There are people who are predators and there are people who express themselves by being physically affectionate. Let’s not be quick to lump them in together. There will be times when people unknowingly make other people uncomfortable and sometimes you just have to deal and forgive them. I’ve had both good men and women to this to me and I tolerate them because I know they are good people.
Swedish Chef – totally agree these are two separate things and some of this is a cultural form of expression, and we should cut people some slack (but still does not make it okay, if unwanted). It’s also ok/preferable to school those overly “affectionate” folks (often of an older generation) when they are crossing lines, making us feel uncomfortable.
I grew up (I’m 57) in a household/culture where all kids had to kiss/hug all relatives/visiting friends hello and good night. The kissing was endless! LOL. At times, it made me really uncomfortable, but I never doubted anyone’s intentions. My 90 year old mother (and I admit sometimes I do the same) was very affectionate and would put her arm around people to welcome them into our homes, pat our heads, etc. My mother was adored for many reasons, but I do believe her physical contact/comfortableness was part of her charm.
In my household culture, my 27 year old daughter and all children in our house were always asked if they would give a hug or wanted a hug and NEVER forced to do that or kiss anyone. We raIsed them with the understanding that it’s their body and their personal space and it’s okay to say “no.” Saying no for young kids is so important and if anyone/anything makes them feel uncomfortable they have a right to reject it.
‘There will be times when people unknowingly make other people uncomfortable and sometimes you just have to deal and forgive them.’ Nope. They need to be told to keep their flappy hands to themselves before they get punched.
My good friend is very active in FL Democratic politics and has been to the WH twice during Obama’s administration and whenever something big happened in the Miami area where Biden or Obama was present…so was she…and in picture AFTER picture over the years with Biden…he ALWAYS has his hands all OVA her…to the point where I was like…
“Seriously…you need to knee him in his netherlands…because THAT’S A BIT TOO MUCH!”
I would have been at the top of my lungs…”JILL…COME GET YOUR MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!”
He’s GROSS regarding women…he’s ALWAYS been gross regarding women…inappropriate AF…right for EVERYBODY to see…and he need to go someplace and sit down….
Ugh. This is so awful to hear. I mean, I’ve seen it, but Im sorry it happened to your friend.
Imagine a grandfather doing this to a grandkid, you’d think it was affectionate and cute. But he doesn’t see a difference between an adult woman he doesn’t have a close relationship with and a grandkid? That’s part of the problem. Again I love that this will ruin his campaign but people still voted for Trump despite his numerous allegations, love the double standard
And for folks THINKING AND SAYING that the Joe Biden is the ONLY way Trump can be beat…please remember THIS fact…
Trump didn’t beat Hillary…Trump CHEATED when (3) Republican states committed ELECTION FRAUD to give him those mysterious 77k votes that swung the electoral college his way…just like Bush 2.0 cheated over Gore…unless we SECURE our voting rights and processes…the GOP will continue to cheat by losing the popularity vote and getting Republican led states to commit election fraud…
A piece of FRUIT could secure more votes than Trump at this point…so stop thinking that Biden or any OTHER man is the only way….PLEASE!
^^^
THIS
I still recall how voting machines in Detroit were reported to be broken in many precincts the morning of the election. Detroit is a strongly democrat city… and Michigan was lost with only 10k votes. That was always fishy to me. The governor at the time was republican Rick Snyder, the guy behind the Flint water crisis.
Only five US presidents in history have been elected despite losing the popular vote: John Quincy Adams in 1824, Rutherford Hayes in 1876, Benjamin Harrison in 1888, George W. Bush in 2000 and Donald Trump. I remember so well the Gore upset and so was not surprised by the Trump outcome. It is essential that the democratic party come up with a viable candidate or history will repeat itself. Hillary won the popular vote and many did not vote. I’m not sure she could win this time if she decides to run…it IS a precarious situation, because while Trump has lost some supporters, he has also gained some and a good deal of his all time supporters have doubled down.
This really doesn’t surprise me at all. I feel for Flores – what a creepy thing to have happen.
I spoke above about confronting men with no respect for a woman’s boundaries and inappropriate behavior…now I wanna say that this is an obvious hit job from the other dems. Flores is a dem. I find the reporting of this incident appropriate, what I do not find appropriate is that she didn’t confront him so he can have an excuse. “I never acted inappropriately”. What should have happened when he was confronted by the press is he should have said “Yes, Ms. Flores and I had a conversation about my touching her in a way that made her uncomfortable. I will respect her and other women’s boundaries in the future”. I realize that one cannot always confront someone who is inappropriate, but in this case she absolutely should have. I do not believe it was her interest to change the behavior but rather USE the info to malign and blindside. He was/is wrong for his lack of boundaries, but she’s using it in an unclean way.
I don’t think it is a hit job because his inappropriateness would have come out anyway.
Right. If Flores were a Republican, this wouldn’t have been a hit job, but a benevolent request to reconsider inappropriate behavior (??). Yes, when a woman is trying to do her damn job, it’s incumbent upon her to immediately clap back at one of the most powerful men in America, who surely has had access to all the best PR, etiquette, and professional grooming coaches, and set him straight on how to professionally treat women. When she’s trying to run her own damn campaign and worry about herself. It’s quite the take to actually think Biden’s behavior was was inappropriate and STILL blame it on the woman.
Killjoy: Yes, yes it is incumbent upon women to change the status quo. Men aren’t going to do it because their perception of our body autonomy has been wrong. Your perception of me placing blame is incorrect. There is no change unless someone changes. Unless confronted, and as you have seen with the #MeToo movement it must be confronted at the highest level of power, we get more of what has historically harmed us as women. I would have no problem turning to the POTUS himself, republican or democrat, while he is kissing my head, and saying right then, “Please do not do that. You are making me uncomfortable.” Every woman has the option to whistle blow instead of confronting the person. Me, I have lived a LONG time and prefer to confront men head on. It has happened to me, my mother, my friends and sisters, my co-workers and my daughter and her friends for a lifetime…I’m not worried about any ass hat that thinks he can invade my body. That’s just me. No blame coming from me to any woman…and no shame in my game.
never forget that supposedly great candidate Joe Biden has never apologized to Anita Hill
I love Biden and she is a thirsty Bernie supporter.
It is difficult for me to reconcile this well-documented behaviour with Biden’s longtime advocacy for women’s issues. But people are complicated, and I believe he can have a personal space/improper touching problem while simultaneously being a proponent for women’s rights and equality.
Another woman, from Connecticut, has come out with an encounter with Joe. He’s cooked.
Just plain weird and creepy. Well before #metoo it certainly would have been easy for any sensible male adult to understand this behaviour was creepy and weird. He’s done; agree with everyone on here.
Here’s a novel thought: women need to start calling out men on their inappropriate, creepy and even unintentionally “benign” touchy-feely behavior when it happens!!!
I don’t for one second excuse Biden’s or any man’s bad behavior. And I have no doubt that she’s telling the truth. However, as women, we do ourselves no favors by waiting months, years or decades to go public with these episodes and say how uncomfortable and demeaned we were at the time. IMO, it undercuts the argument. Another thing that is problematic: is that with the increasing number of past misdeeds like this circulating about elected officials, actors, doctors, sports figures, etc., there is a real danger that the public at large will just shrug and dismiss it UNLESS it’s something really vile. These men need to get a comeuppance, when the deed occurs.
Well, Evie, it isn’t that simple. A lot of times it’s a boss in power who does it. There’s A lot of ways they can sabotage you if you piss them off. Or the boss is buddies w the big boss over him so you know if you complain nothing is going to happen. Yeah you can call HR. they’ll tell you retaliation is not allowed but slick men can get retaliation without breaking any rules. I once complained about a male boss to a female coworker. She and I had a falling out and I suspect she told him what I said about him. He was on my ass until I quit. But it was stuff that wasn’t against the rules. For example he would tell me to do stuff we regularly did but he wouldn’t make anyone else. He was often the only boss in my department so he could pretty much do whatever he wanted. Another time, it was slow and everyone was playing around inside. Out of 10 people, he chose me to do some shit. Etc etc. They want revenge they will get it. Telling them no doesn’t do a damn thing. Jmo
@Snowflake: Yep, I get it…it’s not easy and it’s not comfortable. And yes, if someone — male or female — in a position of power is out to get you, HR isn’t going to be of much help (except in rare instances). I’ve worked in TV news and in high technology where sexual harassment, gender bias and pay inequity are rampant. I always reacted very quickly and forcefully to stop unwanted advances — including smacking one guy in the face. And I also wasn’t afraid to take my complaints of gender bias and unequal pay up with management. Yes, it cost me advancement at several workplaces, but I prefer that to the alternative. I do believe in saying “No” loudly and forcefully. Trust me, they back down when they think you mean business and aren’t afraid to stand up for yourself — especially these days. There is recourse in terms of litigation or the threat of it. And that too does come with a price. Women who stand up for themselves often get a bad rap and the reputation of being a “troublemaker” or “high maintenance.” But sometimes it pays to advertise and let people know in no uncertain terms that you won’t put up with s**t. Just my $0.02 worth.
@evie, i think I’m slow to react. When I’ve been surprised by unwanted advances, I’ve frozen, not knowing what to do. I wish i had thought faster before and smacked the guy like you did. My husband says I dont stand up enough for myself snd I guess he’s right. There are times where i should have complained to HR. i guess it’s partly my cynicism that makes me say nothing will be done if I complain. I think i was just too scared to do it also. I’m glad you spoke up though. You’ve got some good points
I can’t believe there hasn’t been more comment on the fact that in that photo in The Cut article, Biden is also helping himself to a big grope of Eva Longoria’s underboob:
https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html#_ga=2.137750963.20869144.1554112377-1375681010.1543758559
Well, Evie, it isn’t that simple. A lot of times it’s a boss in power who does it. There’s A lot of ways they can sabotage you if you piss them off. Or the boss is buddies w the big boss over him so you know if you complain nothing is going to happen. Yeah you can call HR. they’ll tell you retaliation is not allowed but slick men can get retaliation without breaking any rules. I once complained about a male boss to a female coworker. She and I had a falling out and I suspect she told him what I said about him. He was on my ass until I quit. But it was stuff that wasn’t against the rules. For example he would tell me to do stuff we regularly did but he wouldn’t make anyone else. He was often the only boss in my department so he could pretty much do whatever he wanted. Another time, it was slow and everyone was playing around inside. Out of 10 people, he chose me to do some shit. Etc etc. They want revenge they will get it. Telling them no doesn’t do a damn thing. Jmo
Sure. Fine. Listen respectfully. Then tell me that you learned something about how others perceive your behavior. Tell me you will make conscious efforts to change your behavior now that you’ve learned something about how your actions make others feel. Say that. And mean it.
…
I am so ashamed of my gender. Why are we going public with, oh he touched me. I thought the female gender was stronger and smarter than all this. When a man does anything that makes me feel uncomfortable I tell him and ask why he did that and to not do it again. I do not let it go
and later whine about it . Come along ladies are we really all this weak. When women start communicating how we feel about what men are doing, men will stop…. All this about Biden is political. Face it ladies….. And I am not even a democrat.