Jane Fonda has a new book, Prime Time, and she’s in the midst of a major promotional campaign for it, for better or for worse. In last week’s post about Jane, I gave my general thoughts on her Vietnam past, and many of you disagreed with me, so you’re going to hate part of this new interview where Jane discusses it. This new interview comes courtesy of Time Magazine, and once again, Jane’s topics range from the superficial to… well, she’s pretty superficial, but I find it interesting.
One theme of your life is gutsiness, which I guess is why you devoted almost 50 pages of this book to sex advice.
Fonda: I have never found a book that talks about everything from the psyche and spirit and wisdom to penile implants. So I decided that I’d write about as much of the research as I possibly could—everything I wanted to know as a woman who is 73 years old and still sexually active. I see people who aren’t traditionally beautiful, but if they’re having good sex, you can tell.Recently you had an appearance on the QVC home-shopping network canceled because of that photo of you in North Vietnam. Why is that one so hard for people to let go?
Fonda: That picture was a terrible mistake, and I’m prepared to apologize for it until I go to my grave, because it hurt servicemen and their families in ways that are very profound. But I’m getting comments on my blog from veterans saying, “I’ve hated you for years, and now I am able to forgive you and ask for forgiveness,” and I cannot tell you what that means to me.You have married three very alpha men, as you put it: Roger Vadim, the creative alpha; Tom Hayden, the political alpha; and Ted Turner, the wealth alpha.
Fonda: No, no, no, Ted isn’t a wealth alpha. Ted is an explorer alpha.O.K. Which is the bigger aphrodisiac?
Fonda: Ah. Well. [Laughs.] I would say someone who was an explorer like I am but in a different direction. I’ve never been turned on to a man who couldn’t teach me new things. They all taught me new things, but Ted taught me so much.Do you find you’re mellowing with age?
Fonda: Yes, and it’s wonderful. The natural slowing down that comes with age is really important. One of the reasons Ted and I split up is that Ted does not slow down. Ted lives horizontally, moving across his land and then across the world horizontally—chased, I believe, by demons. I wanted to live vertically, and I told him so, and he wasn’t able to change.Where do you fall on the spectrum of faith?
Fonda: I’m a Christian. I study the teachings of Jesus, which are that we have to overcome differences, we have to forgive. I was particularly drawn to black churches when I lived in Atlanta, but I do not now go to church.What would the older you say to the younger you?
Fonda: This too shall pass. It’s much more important to be interested than to be interesting.
[From Time Magazine]
Veterans write to her and say, “I’ve hated you for years, and now I am able to forgive you and ask for forgiveness”? Is the subtext that the veterans are asking for forgiveness because of Vietnam specifically, or that they are simply asking for a greater forgiveness, like a crisis of faith or something? I don’t get it. Are they asking for Jane’s forgiveness, or…? Eh.
CB wants to know what Jane has to say about penile implants too. Gross.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I think they meant that they now forgive her
Could someone please explain to me why this woman is so hated? I would like someone to tell me -for learning purposes- because for many years I have tried to find an answer but it’s not clear still for me (non-American commenter.)
I will never like Jane Fonda. These hollywood left wing pinko elites should just shut up and act. They get these big heads because they are big stars and they feel the need to advocate politics and foreign affairs. I hate war like the next person but when boots are on the ground we should support them and not throw more gasoline on the fire. You have an issue vote these politicians out but respect the troops. They are volunteers fighitng for your freedom if you like it or not so shut the hell up Hollywood.
Here you go, Kiki: http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
@kiki, the pithy answer is that fonda went to north vietnam and was filmed sitting on an anti-aircraft gun used to shoot down american planes, all the while laughing and clapping with delight. that is not pacifism. that’s not anti-war. it’s anti-american. i have never had a problem with anyone protesting a war. i have a problem when it’s one-sided and there is support for the war actions of another country while one’s own country is criticized. either one believes ALL war is wrong or one doesn’t. death is death, whether it’s an american dying or, at the time, a north vietnamese dying. the sheer hypocrisy of fonda’s position is what resonates to this day. hope that explains it.
Isn’t it abit strange that Jane Fonda would have to apologize for something she did forty years ago? Yes, there were
members of the US army imprisoned by the NLF, but isn’t the taking (and, sadly, brutalizing) of prisoners part of every war?
The atrocious acts perpetrated by both sides are a normal consequence of an armed conflict, and no one has the obligation to blindly support any side in particular. If Jane Fonda wanted to show her sympathies towards the Vietcong, she was more than free to do so. People should just stop whingeing about that, and maybe concentrate more on the fact that the US government wasn’t exactly compassionate to neither the Vietnamese nor its own veterans, who are still being treated really badly.
With that said, will Ms Fonda never stop milking the “Artsy/Pseudo-Intellectual Trophy Wife & Fitness Guru” image? It’s over 20 years old, and it’s well, precisely that: old.
@TL, for better or worse, the Vietnam era was a very different time in this country. Anti-war protesters were not at all ashamed to condemn the war and the people fighting it. It’s a lesson both sides learned the hard way, and I think we’ve seen that consistently since. You can oppose the war, but the people who fight it are brave men and women who have committed to something larger than themselves.
Jane’s repeated apologies over the years are for just this mistake – she made political statements that were also personal. I am happy to hear that at least some of the people she hurt are willing to hear her apology.
As for your inflammatory pinko crap, grow up. Turn off the TV if you don’t like it.
@Kiki
Jane was part of the elite Hollywood and America when the poor and middle class were sent to fight in Vietnam where her efforts to protest the war by sitting at an anti-aircraft gun was deemed to be treasonous considering our pilots were flying overhead and our boys were dieing in the jungles. She was painted as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Right or wrong it was a time of extreme passion. I think it was terribly wrong for her to express her opposition to the war by giving the enemy a propaganda tool.
I think she is to be respected in many ways for her daring and putting herself on the line, but she crossed that line. I don’t believe in “America, love it or leave it”, but her message of protest was lost and it turned against her. It had to be very hurtful to the boys in the mud.
She should keep apologizing.
A lot of people did horrible things on both sides of that war. It’s been 40 years LET IT GO!
If she apologizes, I’m ok. She was the equivalent of like drew barrymore going to Afghanistan and hanging out with the taliban and saying F America and supporting the deaths of American troops over there. She sees she was wrong with the way she went about her protests against the war so i can deal with that.
Yeah…I’m not going to get over it as long as she keeps bringing it up. It was different back then…people didn’t support the troops like they do now. My Dad came back from a war he didn’t volunteer for and was spit on in the airport. Sometimes wounds don’t heal…
You can say let it go, but that period formed a lot of people who are now only in their early 60’s. My husband is 63 and still remembers what it was like to sit in Vietnam and see that picture of an American woman hanging around and laughing with the people who were shooting at him everyday. He has no problem with the Vietnamese, they were a bunch of kids like he was, but he does have a problem with somebody from his own country who knowingly allowed themselves to be used.
When you watch close friends being shot in front of you, it’s pretty hard to just say never mind. The picture in your head of your buddy being blown up doesn’t go away after 20 years or 40 years.
The veterans have nothing to apologize for (unless they committed some atrocity) – Jane does and should apologize for what she did. That quote about forgiveness is worded poorly.
Wow, look at those lines around her eyes.
Love, the hairdo.
Hate both dresses.
50 pages of sex advice? Oh please, keep it to yourself.
“Hanoi Jane” had my utmost respect, as she and hundreds of thousands of anti-war protesters stood up and voiced what needed to be said during those years. Jane rightly spoke out about thhe atrocities of Vietnam and the global corporate political theatre being played out in Southeast Asia. She flipped the bird at Washington, and stated what many were thinking but were hesitant or afraid to verbalize.
It’s the same with Iran, Iraq, and other wars.
Jane Fonda is a two-faced, hypocritical, backtracking bitch who has sold out to the powers-that-be and sends a clear message that it is NOT right and just to speak out against the atrocity of needless wars.
TRAITOR!
@Disco
Vietnam is where we learnt to differentiate the men and women in harms way from our policy makers who put them there. That lesson was learnt the hardway by disrespecting those who had no choice in the matter. God bless your father but let us all never forget.
should she be held forever accountable for the crimes of her youth…yes…but a lot of people in that era did a lot of stupid things (soldiers killed innocent people, enlisted men fled to Canada, wealthy white men avoided the draft due to family connections)…so there needs to be a hefty dose of forgiveness – she at least apologizes..publicly…and often.
I can understand why Vietnam vets and their families would still have a problem with Jane Fonda- even after 40 years.
In many ways, I feel that this country is still fighting the Vietnam war.
Jane Fonda didn’t just speak out against the war, she told everyone to spit on US service men and women and not regard them as heroes. She accused them of being murderers and killers while saying that the North Vietnamese killing South Vienamese because they want their land was just. I’m South Vietnamese and I find her actions completely disgusting. South Vietnamese people hate her.
@ TQB, “As for your inflammatory pinko crap, grow up. Turn off the TV if you don’t like”
Sounds to me and you and Fonda should do a anti-yankee doodle dandy broadway show. I bet you voted for Obama too. Yeah, the change he has brought brings me hope that one day we’ll have another president change. But Obama is worse than Bush and I’m sure the next will be worse than Obama.
Well I am glad to see so many on here won’t accept the sincere apology of someone for something they did when they were young and stupid. How gracious of you all to believe that you are better than she is.
I am sure that everyone else on here has never done anything to be sorry for or ashamed about. It must be quite the burden to think so highly of yourselves.
I will take a sinner anyday who tries to make right what they did in the past. At least that’s honest.
You all who condemn her by pretending you are better than she is are the people I can’t stand. And I suspect all who are railing against her have skeletons in their own closets. So then not only are you mean, but you’re hypocrites.
I can’t believe someone can make such a comment. You are so blind – so naive. Obviously, you don’t know the stories of what was done to brave men in unfathomable conditions FOR YEARS. Can’t you imagine what 12 hours of that kind of experience (with no hope of rescue) will do to someone’s psyche. The TORTURE. These men had to fight ever-present thoughts of suicide, murder constantly. Would you even last a day in that situation? Yet, this excuse for a human being, publishing a book, when she met and forsook these men, informed on them, turned them over to their murderous, torturous, inhuman captors. She will *FOREVER* have to deal with begging the forgiveness of these soldiers. FOREVER.
Her apologies are too late for my taste. That aside-an apology is nothing more than words. And hers always seemed self-serving. Forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting or reconciling. She needs to move on.
And she did far more than look stupid posing on weapons used to kill HER countrymen. She was passed notes by a few prisoners that wanted to get word to their families. She turned those notes over to the enemy, denying these American soliders and their families some peace, and got them a good beating.
Sorry, Jane.
TL – if you want leftie pinko Hollywood to shut the hell up, why do you take an interest in celeb gossip sites?
Imbecile.
I don’t blame anyone for being pissed at JF, but time to get over it. They ought to be pissed at Kissinger, and if anyone should be apologizing, it’s HK.
Hanoi Jane was the tender age of 35- young? I think not.
“In 1972 Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden and others traveled to North Vietnam to give their support to the North Vietnamese’s Government. When she returned to the United States, she advised the news media that all of the American Prisoners of War were being well treated and were not being tortured.
As the American POWs returned home in 1973, they spoke out about the inhumane treatment and torture they had suffered as prisoners of war. Their stories directly contradicted Jane Fonda’s earlier statements of 1972. Some of the American POWs such as Senator John McCain, a former Presidential candidate, stated that he was tortured by his guards for refusing to meet with groups such as Jane Fonda’s. Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being “hypocrites and liars.”
The Democrats started Vietnam, Johnson made it what it is and Nixon took it from there. The dems once out of office polarized the nation backing left wing pinko marches, celebrity advocacy and hippy crap which divided this nation even more. They did the same thing with the Iraq war even though in the 90’s clinton was huge on bombing Iraq no fly zones and citing WMDs. He even signed into policy the US goal was to remove saddam. People lack knowledge of historic facts by mostly spewing opinion and that does no service to reality or truth. Being a homer to one political party instead of a nation is another problem. Gone are the good ole days of Presidents like FDR and reagan because they actually stood for something.
TL, are you also mad at commas?
Oh f you, America, and f you hard. This whole mentality of yours makes me sick in my stomach, and it’s coming from someone, whose country suffered terrible repressions under Soviet rule for 60 years. That fing sucks.
I accept her apology. You know why? Because MOVING ON is the only way we can actually mend the damage. But no, we choose to dwell in the damn past. MOVE ON, forgive, do not forget and make a better world. And people make mistakes and might regret them later. Should we hold them in contempt for their beliefs that they had, what, over 30 years ago? Nice, people. if you EVER wonder why there’s no peace love and acceptance in the world, take a look in the mirror. The answer is right there.
Again. It fing sucks to be persecuted, to be spat on. But there’s a time when you HAVE to move on, otherwise you’re feeding the same misery that’s dragging you all down. I hate what the soviets did to us, to my family, but if I dwelt on it forever, how on Earth could I move on?
Jane Fonda had tremendous influence in Hollywood at one point and she used it to contradict the stories that traumatized soldiers were coming home with. Soldiers who had suffered unimaginable torture in the Hanoi Hilton, soliders who had been beaten and abused- they came home and told what had happened to them and were so grateful to be back on home soil and telling their stories. Jane Fonda publicly refuted those stories time and again, accusing the soldiers of making up things up or outright lying. People have the right to their feelings and anger and if someone caused me so much pain I don’t know if I’d get past it, either. She is claiming they are asking for HER forgiveness. Does she SOUND sorry? As someone who lives in NYC and lived through 9/11, I don’t want to see a prominent person posing with the Taliban as though they’re friends, nor publicly proclaiming support for them. It’s more than insensitive; it’s cruel.
I’m the daughter of a Vietnam Vet & she’s a traitorous bitch! There I said it!
Any chance of removing #27 first line completely?
Anyway, Jane Fonda started regretting her behavior as soon as she realized it was affecting her ability to make money. That’s it.
She’s a complete phoney. Her “apologies” were a direct response to her desire to make a buck.
@mary jane: I agree 10,000%
@jc126: you’re hilarious!
@Danziger: please put your issues elsewhere, this is a debate, you are completely offensive and obviously do not know how to argue without acting like a child.
I seemed to remember that Jane Fonda was spat on recently. She was promoting her other book then. Perhaps the Vietnam vets should be angry with their gov’t. Many of these men are homeless and have psychology problems. I wonder who is the modern day JF? I think today stars are told to stay far away from politics.
Original Gracie (I deleted the mean thing I said). Would you tell a holocost survivor to get over it? Would you tell your grandmother to graciously forgive the Nazi bastards who gassed her family? Than what makes you think I give a flying f*#k about some trashy untalented whore who turned in prisoners of war for trying to pass her notes about their torture. American men died directly due to her actions. I would spit on her and her book if I saw her. I am better than her, and you too if you think I should forgive her. I was young and dumb once myself, but my actions never hurt other people. Even children have a conscience and can learn basic human decency. All JF did was be a spoiled destructive bit#h who didn’t care that she was killing American service men. F*#k her. She will always be trash.
well, it’s so much easier and comforting to denounce and attack a 73yo woman instead of holding to account the men who sacrificed 56,000 american lives — not to mention the hundreds of thousands of vietnamese, lao and khmer killed by american bombs, chemical warfare, torture — you know those good old american values.. why you can see them playing out today in yemen, somalia, iraq, afghanistan … booyah!
Original Gracie,
First off she was 35, not young and stupid when she buddied up to the N. Vietnamese. Nor was she young and stupid when she went to France with John Kerry to support a communist peace plan that was anti-american. She knew what she was doing.
Second, any skeletons in my closet did not cause people to die. Hers did.
She can continue to apologize, it is her right. She is just apologizing now so she can sell some books. Vietnam vets and their families have the right to tell her to pound sand.
I applaud her for realizing her mistake and publicly admitting it and apologizing for it. I dont think she is apologizing to sell books, i honestly think she is sorry or she wouldnt address it. She could simply say no comment.
e.non, please spare me the american GIs did this mentality. American GIs are not even close to the shit pulled by the Khmer rouge, Stalin/Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Kim Il Jong and family, the Taliban etc.
I grew up on Camp Pendleton. My dad was in Korea, and did 2 tours in Vietnam. He wasn’t home when I was born.
I DON’T CARE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THE WAR, BUT DAMMIT, IT WASN’T CAUSED BY THOSE FIGHTING IT. (And it still isn’t!)
Support your troops! They’re only following orders from higher-ups.
If someone handed me something as precious as a note with their name and/or SSN on it, to get to their families, you’d better bet your ass I would treat that sliver of paper like precious cargo.
Shame on her.
You applaud her. Geesh, when did young people become such spineless pussies. If you screw around and break up a happy family, you get to apologize. If you bully someone weaker, you get to apologize. If you lie, cheat, and steal, you get to apologize. If you willingly let your fellow man be tortured and killed, you do not get to apologize or be forgiven. You live with the shame forever. And just because I hold JF to task for her actions does not mean I would not hold any political figure or sympathizer who did what she did to task also. She’s just the bitch who wants to act like a simple “oh sorry” will do the trick and then go on selling books about geezer peen. Useless.
I would punch her in the face if I ever met her. She can apologize until she’s dead, I don’t care. She’s a traitor.
Yeah, yeah I know, now get off my lawn!
(I meant this as in my comment sounded grouchy, not at Beth’s comment which was awesome!)
The American Way.
No matter how many good deeds you do in your life.
You will be forever be judged for your biggest mistake.
And no one cares about all the good that you do.
Nor do they care that you have repeatedly apologize for the tragic mistake. And taken a very public flogging for it since it happen.
Not when there is so much personal joy in being hateful, about your tragic mistake.
Yes, that seems like the American way, doesn’t it.
I am not even stepping into the debate about what she did as Hanoi Jane. There are good points to be made on both sides, but I truly believe in forgiveness as a general rule. Not because someone deserves or doesn’t deserve it, but so that the aggrieved isn’t wasting time and energy on hatred. Any time and energy put towards hate is a waste.
To me, Jane is very cool. How many older celebrity women are as open and honest about their lives, warts and all, as Jane? She is still opinionated, sexual, healthy, intelligent, and even though I wish she had not had so much “dental work” (as Kathy Griffin would say), she looks great. I think that she is a great role model of coming back from the personal and professional brink. Jane’s values are quite different than mine in some significant ways, but as a women getting nearer to 40 than I’d like, I appreciate what she is trying to create for older women.
Exactly E.non.
This reminds me of a recent news article which stated that 30 innocent afghanis were slaughtered accidentally. Then the anchor went on and said in a tragedy today an American hero was killed.
I think the above speaks for itself and the attitudes many Americans have towards non-Americans.
Sam, you need a history lesson about the atrocities you’ve committed abroad. Just because you don’t hear about them on faux and cnn news, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t millions of people in the world right now suffering under your hands.
F Jane Fonda. She can take her guilt to the grave, she deserves nothing better.
I agree with Danziger. I also come from a formerly Soviet-occupied country and day to day have to deal with bad feelings toward the occupiers whose families still live here. JF at least apologized. Soviet Russia never apologized for violently occupying all those countries and the horrible genocide and repopulation (with russians) 10 times worse than Holocaust when it comes to the number of lives lost. The formal policy is still that we ourselves had ASKED for it.
JF is an old woman. She’s not the brightest. But she’s not evil. And she apologized. But if some of you have bad feelings towards her, I respect that and hope you deal with them in a healthy manner for your own sake.
Jane Fonda is one of many celebrities that reap the benefits of the U.S and then turn around and spit on it. A throwaway comment like “i will apologize to my grave” is hollow. Want to really express your regret? How about using some of your millions to help Vietnam Vets that are disabled, sick or the children of dead vets???
@ TL, funny, I never mentioned either political party. That was you (#20) who for some reason felt it would be insulting to me to criticize how I may or may not have used my very private right to vote in the last election. That’s rather “pinko” of you, my friend – that and suggesting that famous folks apparently have no right to political beliefs.
Thank you Danziger for your perspective. Your comment is one of the few that add anything to this ” conversation.”
There are some things attributed to her that never happened, and other things that did happen concerning the Vietnam war. Snopes is great site to separate fact from fiction.
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
What she did do and said was arrogant and naive all at the same time. She was used like a puppet by the Vietnamese and even said that the Vietnamese treated their U.S. prisoners humanely and those POW’s saying they were tortured were lying. It just shows how stupid she was about war in general and she was using her movie star influence to set the American public straight. She was not some kid, she was a woman in her thirties.
Nothing wrong with protesting a war, in fact she was only one of a very large crowd. Protesting is very American, although you don’t see the marches anymore like you did with the Vietnam war. It was a very unpopular war that divided the country and the veterans coming home were not treated as they should have been.
She had every right to be opposed to the war and be vocal about it, but she let her ego and arrogance be used by the enemy to spread their propaganda, which pissed off a lot of people.
She had a right to do that and others have a right to hold a grudge. I don’t feel sorry for her at all, she reaped what she sowed.
This is a very complicated issue despite those who want to turn it black or white.
Jane has been apologizing for this picture and its unintended consequences for a long time and her ability to make money was quite affected by it.
During the Vietnam war it was vital that people stand up and denounce it and our participation in it. That is nothing like Drew Barrymore going to Afghansitan and supporting the Taliban. The North Vietnamese were not the Taliban – there is no comparison to make.
Perhaps some posters should take the time to read the history of the origins and escalation of the Vietnam war. The U.S. was involved there since the late 1940s and we were on the wrong side.
It is a simplistic and jingoistic mantra to say you oppose a war but support the troops fighting it. I realize that people are trying to qualify their support but that can’t always be done. Support for the troops is too easily manipulated into support for the war. Support is fine if it is confined to ensuring their safety and care and proper supply. But once it crosses over into parades and public acclaimation and a pep rally mentality then it simply fuels the war.
While I sympathize with McCain and others on the receiving end of mistreatment and even torture, do not kid yourselves into thinking the U.S. didn’t turn around and use Fonda’s visit and pictures as propaganda to fuel their illegal and immoral war machine. And that includes feeding lies to their own troops about anti-war activities and activists.
Ms. Fonda has earned the ire and hatred she receives. She is someone who has strong opinions on various matters and isn’t afraid to speak her mind. She regrets the photograph, but doesn’t regret her protests. “In a 60 Minutes interview on March 31, 2005, Fonda reiterated that she had no regrets about her trip to North Vietnam in 1972, with the exception of the anti-aircraft gun photo.”
She continues to protest multiple issues even today. As an American she has the right to speak her mind and the rest of us of the right to agree or disagree with her publicly and privately.
@ the original bellaluna – “If someone handed me something as precious as a note with their name and/or SSN on it, to get to their families, you’d better bet your ass I would treat that sliver of paper like precious cargo.
Shame on her.”
Exactly.
Although I was not raised in a former USSR country, I did live in the Czech Republic for a good while and would like to chime quickly to agree with @Danziger and @KLO. Danziger’s comment in particular struck a chord with me.
For the record, I am an American. To be fair, I’m way too young to remember Vietnam and none of my family served in that war. So, I’m sure that this issue does not have the same personal resonance for me that it does for some of you.
However, I do have family in the Navy, and my grandfather was a WW2 vet. No matter what my opinion of how right or wrong any of the wars we have fought were, I certainly respect our troops.
That said though, I completely see where @Danziger is coming from. It’s been 40 years. Let’s all at least try to move on.
The only thing she’s apologized for was the anti-aircraft gun photo. Fonda did a lot more, including making ten radio broadcasts in which she denounced American political and military leaders as “war criminals”. She also visited American prisoners of war (POWs), and brought back messages from them to their families. When cases of torture began to emerge among POWs returning to the United States, Fonda called the returning POWs “hypocrites and liars”. She added, “These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed.” She further stated that the POWs were “military careerists and professional killers” who are “trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to the law”.
Prisoners like John McCain were tortured for years, and the N. Vietnamese even taunted prisoners with recordings of her radio addresses and the photos.
No forgiveness, especially when she’s only regretted one tiny part of her trip – the photo.
Jane Fonda was not directly responsible for the death of American troops. What is this – 1972 all over again? Such propaganda is noting more tan BS – sort of like celebrity tabloid nonsense.
Those directly responsible for sending those of my generation to their deaths in Vietnam were the leaders of my government. Not Jane Fonda and not anti-war activists. We were trying to save their lives by stopping a war. A feat which we finally achieved in the face of overwhelming and powerful and violent opposition by our own government and society which slowly gave way to reason and right.
As an Army brat for most of my youth I understand and respect the military. I am certainly not a pacifist and do not oppose all wars. My father’s heroic service dring WWII and later in his military career instilled in me great pride for those who serve this country – both in and out of uniform. I believe as a rich and powerful country that has reaped much from most of the earth that we have a responsibility to oppose tyranny and despots who abuse and deny their citizens human rights. That said, that was not the situation in Vietnam.
@ Katherine (#57) – Reading your post made me remember that military slogan, “Be all that you can be!”
It’s true, people who fight in wars suffer a great deal, physically and psychologically. Many of them lose their lives in pursuit of some rich bastard’s political goals.
That being said, I hold an ambivalent view toward military personnel. You never know what they might have done during the war and gotten away with. They’ll never tell.
I detected what I believed to be a veiled reference to our invasion of Iraq & Afghanistan in your sentence “I believe as a rich and powerful country that has reaped much from most of the earth that we have a responsibility to oppose tyranny and despots who abuse and deny their citizens human rights [sic].”
Am I right in highlighting this as a reference to our current involvement in Middle Eastern affairs?
I was a young woman during Vietnam. In fact, I grew up in Fayetteville, NC near Fort Bragg. My grandfather was career army and my father was in the reserves. I opposed the war early – but not the troops themselves. My father grew to oppose it too. During Kent State my university was the site of protests against the deaths of the students at Kent State and against the war. Jane Fonda came to speak against the war. I heard her and other speakers and although I think she passionately believed the war was wrong, I didn’t agree with all I heard. I think she made a huge mistake going North Vietnam, but I also believe that at some point you have to forgive people if they apologize and if they change. As a health professional in Atlanta I also know what an impact she has made in the state of Georgia with regard to teen pregnancy. She established and has supported with both time and money a non profit agency that has done much to address Georgia’s appalling teen pregnancy rate and to change the lives of many young girls with limited resources. I choose to believe she has changed.
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Nymeria:
I detected what I believed to be a veiled reference to our invasion of Iraq & Afghanistan in your sentence “I believe as a rich and powerful country that has reaped much from most of the earth that we have a responsibility to oppose tyranny and despots who abuse and deny their citizens human rights [sic].”
Am I right in highlighting this as a reference to our current involvement in Middle Eastern affairs?
====================================
Yea, as ambivalent as I am about this involvement, I do think we have to stay and help in Afghanistan and Iraq until they are able to withstand on their own.
When we create these situations we can’t just walk away. As opposed to the war in Vietnam as I was, I was appalled at how we exited and ashamed at how we left many behind. I am anxious to read a recent book about the final days and hope that I read something that gives a decent explanation – I’m not hopeful though.
A bit of confession – quite a while ago when I was a lobbyist for international human rights and health funding for women in the developing world there was a time I wanted to revolutionize the women of Africa to oppose their oppression. Something like Lysistrata African style. So I’m really not much of a pacificist in the face of oppression. Why can’t a military be used for humanitarian causes?
I know I know. It’s probably due to too much exposure to military life. What are you gonna do?
If the US government or the press gave the words of a Hollywood actress ANY weight about something as serious as the Vietnam war, then we should elect better leaders and demand better journalism.
And if the US military took her seriously for 1 second, I will eat my hat.
Jane, stop cringing about it for godssake. You’re not Henry Kissinger. Among other things, he wears less sequins.
Perhaps Jane, if she is sincere in her apologies, should donate the proceeds of her book to Vietnam Vets.
Jane can go home and cry in her millions (billions?) but I don’t feel the need to purchase or watch anything she is involved with. That image of her was used during the torture of our US troops as POWs. Suck it, Jane. Apologize all you want. I think the only thing you regret is that it continues to cost you $$ because some people won’t ever forget.
Kiki
The short answer to that question is Dolchstosslegende and mass amnesia.
She was of high middling importance to the antiwar movement. About at the level of John Kerry, Ron Kovic, Donald W. Duncan, or maybe former attorney general Ramsey Clark. But she was a wealthy female liberal, and thus fit in to the stereotype of a treacherous female more than a decorated naval officer, decorated Special forces Operatives, or a respected statesman.
There was a great deal of opposition to Iraq from former Foreign service officers, ex-generals, veterans, and prominent former DOD members, but you always heard of Sean Penn, or Janeane Garofalo, because that fits into the narrative the establishment wants.
Fonda killed no one, did not knowingly deceive anyone (her exact quote on torture was “I’m quite sure that there were incidents of torture…but the pilots who are saying it was the policy of the Vietnamese and that it was systematic, I believe that’s a lie.”), never encouraged disrespect for the troops (She had stated publicly “In my mind it takes a special kind of courage to risk your life in another country, for your own country. The men and women who came back and spoke out were a special kind of hero.”), certainly never denounced the troops (the closest she came was the supposed war crimes accusation in which she actually stated that those who were “ordering the bombing(s)” were acting illegally), and said less inflammatory things about the war than many of the veterans who served over there.
But she stupidly allowed herself to be photographed on an anti-aircraft gun creating a memorable photograph, and thenunderestimated the cravenness and vindictiveness of the ultra-rightists who had something to gain by attacking her and thus helping to cover their asses.
They are never going to forgive her, acknowledge the war was a lost cause from day one, or admit that their opposition to her is just a coping mechanism. They wanted someone to blame, and thus Hanoi Jane was born.
For more on this I recommend the works of Jerry Lembcke.
http://janefonda.com/tag/nixon/
@matt, dolchstosslegende, huh? my, my, aren’t we high-brow for someone who visits and comments on a gossip website? us’n plebians sho nuf is impressed with yer book lernin’.
“I’m prepared to apologize for it until I go to my grave”
Not long enough
In today’s world, imagine if there was a Hollywood starlit laughing with the Taliban as they shot down a helicopter full of navy seals. Different war, same effect. I think people,especially Vets and people who had to live through the Vietnam era, and especially those who lost loved ones, feel that the 34 year old Jane Fonda should have known better. Many people thought she should have been prosecuted for treason but instead she suffered no consequences due to her father’s huge celebrity status.-Just my opinion.
If people are going to be angry about something, it should be mostly directed at the US government and the asshats who decided it was OK to dump Agent Orange on their own troops.
That is what I am really appalled at. So many of them are sick with cancer and other diseases on top of the psychological damage they probably suffered.
Also, that is not mentioning the innocent Vietnamese who suffered birth defects and illnesses because of it.
“If you willingly let your fellow man be tortured and killed, you do not get to apologize or be forgiven.”
Damn straight. That’s why I will never forgive murdering scum like Bush the lesser & Darth Cheney for trying to turn this country into a poor man’s copy of North Korea – and Obama for continuing those disgusting policies.
The problem is she isn’t apologizing for all she did. She is apologizing for a photo. But she did so much more. She was 34 when she went to Vietnam. She wasn’t a kid. She knew what she was doing. She said POW’s were lying about being tortured. Several years later when they returned home, she again accused them of lying about being tortured. That’s pretty rotten and she hasn’t apologized for any of that. So that’s why 40 years later she hasn’t been forgiven. She hasn’t atoned. It’s no sweat off my back but if I were a Vietnam vet, I’d be pretty pissed too.
And she can keep apologizing … I can’t say I know one Viet Nam Veteran who would ever forgive her. As the daughter of a Fallen Marine I say she can rot … may not be my fight but anyone who can betray their country and their military is scum.
Mitch Buchanan, you truly do ROCK!
Katherine, of course it affected her ability to make money…why do you think she’s “prepared to apologise to her grave?”
Answer: Because she has a book coming out, and she wants it to sell!
FYI, All: Vietnam vets comprise a vast majority of the mentaly ill homeless in the US. If JF TRULY cares, why not put her money where her mouth is and assist them in getting the aide they need? Start a home; build a hopspital; do SOMETHING other than attempting to reverse the same lip-service you offered 40 years ago about the men who were fighting an un-winnable war!
So I guess everyone on this feed who condemns Fonda also condemns the Germans…the Russians….the Japanese…because my mothers house was bombed in WW2 so I should hate all germans for what they did…my sisters family is Jewish…so I should hate all Germans for what they did…where does the line get drawn with forgiveness….
I support the troops … to come home. We never should have been in Vietnam, Iraq, Grenada ….
On a totally separate note, I like her dress in the third picture. She sort of looks like Tootsie in the second one…
I don’t see how she should have to apologise. Should everybody who supported Vietnam have to apologise?Should everybody who supported America have the apologise? I’m absolutely not an expert on this but I can’t see what she really needs to be forgiven for. I’m sure both sides did disgusting things during the war. I don’t know, maybe I’m biased. I think I’ve always viewed Vietnam as a proxy for America to protect precious, precious capitalism.
People who are angry about this need to let it go. I can say this as the niece of a Vietnam Vet who never led a normal life due to PTSD. Fonda made a huge mistake but what really hurt the vets is the decisions that their own government made, the directives they were given to commit attrocities, the chemicals that they were forced to dump on both the Vietnamese and themselves, the illicit drugs that were made available to the soldiers so that many came home drug addicts, and the utter lack of mental health care that turned Vietnam vets into a lost generation. Most people would like to blame Jane’s ineptitude rather than the good old US of A eventhough many politicians including the former Sec. of Defense Macnamara admit they made HUGE mistakes. And BTW she did produce and star in Coming Home a movie specifically about the difficulites vets faced after returning from the front in 1972.
I’m Vietnamese-American, and I can’t tell you how much it upsets me when I hear and “learn” about the Vietnam War according to American textbooks and media. My dad fought for the South and my mother’s brothers did too. After the war, there was no choice for my parents but to immigrate to the US. We still have family suffering under the communist government there.
On behalf of all Vietnamese people who have had to leave their homeland, let me say that S. Vietnam wanted the US troops there. We supported them even though their own country didn’t.
We don’t hold any fondness for the media coverage during that time, nor those like Jane Fonda, who could never begin to understand what it was like in Vietnam. They visited with the knowledge that they could leave when they wanted, and they never understood Vietnam and it’s people. They could only see one face of the Viet Cong
The controversial photos and the “news” were superficial and never told the whole story. Any Vietnamese person who has had to leave Vietnam or was old enough to remember that time will tell you there’s more to the story behind the photo of the naked girl crying and running from her burning village, or the man shooting the Viet Cong prisoner point blank.
The media and Vietnam War protesters living in their safe homes, watching the news could not even begin to understand the Viet Cong, Vietnamese people, or even war. To this day it angers me when someone comes up waving today’s Vietnam flag, apologizing, “I’m sorry, we shouldn’t have been in Vietnam.” They don’t understand how offensive that flag is or what it was and is like for my family. Any Vietnamese southerner will tell you that they have little to no love for those anti-Vietnam War protesters and journalist, but hold the greatest respect and admiration to Vietnam Veterans.
When you have family and loved ones still suffering under a communist government because there wasn’t support for S. Vietnam’s only hope, you can tell us how to “move on.” I hope this is another perspective for those who protested that war. You should have gotten your news from the Vietnamese people, not from celebrities and American journalists looking in.
JANE FONDA DID NOT HAND OVER SNNs. Before you condemn why don’t you get your facts straight? The hatred you have for a woman who has apologized over and over again is really disgusting. And it does not make you any better than her and her political opinions. Get over yourselves.
So it can be inferred from your post that you support the role of the US as an international police force.
I don’t.
No one came out of this a winner. And if both sides were going to lose, I’d rather have had American soldiers stay home than go to Viet Nam and become a hodgepodge mix-n-match of monsters, mental cases, and drug addicts (pick one or a combination of the above!). They came back truly a lost generation.
I see the war in Viet Nam as a sad, ugly thing, no matter which way you turn it.
No, I don’t consider the troops to be some US international police force. That would be a dishonor to them and belittling their role and aid to South Vietnam. It wasn’t some silly dispute in Vietnam. You may wish to conclude that based on your own understanding, but that was never my opinion nor was it stated.
I’m as much American as you, I support our troops as much as the next American. I don’t wish any harm to come upon them. I too want them home and safe. I understand the split opinions and sometimes feel it too, regarding the Vietnam war when I think about the opinions on today’s war.
“Why interfere in a country that holds no concern to us?”
“Why fight when we are having hard times in our own country?”
“Why put our troops in danger on a needless war?”
“They don’t want us there, we shouldn’t be there”
“Will war solve anything?” etc.
I don’t hold a blind support for wars, but I do wish things were different for S. Vietnam. I only commented to show how Vietnamese-American’s felt, and to show that there is a great respect for US troops on our side. Please don’t belittle that respect by saying it was only as an international police force. One thing I love and find unique about America and American’s is that they never hesitate to help those who aren’t their own. Not every country does this, I know.
What she did went way beyond just sitting and laughing….when our POWS were made to speak to her, to tell her how “well” they were being treated, they gave her notes to pass on for them and she turned the notes over the ones in charge of the prison camps and our men were beaten for their actions. “Anti-American” may begin to touch on it….but not really.
My father was one of those men. Hate the war, hate the politics…but support your people.
I have a cousin who served 2 tours in Vietnam. He has struggled with PTSD, addictions, and depression since his return from southeast Asia in 1969. He is now, in just the last few years, gone on disability because his war-related problems have made holding a job extremely difficult. He has flashbacks. He cannot speak about what he saw or did even to his closest family. He CAN’T GET OVER IT because it lives inside him every day and it has become a part of who he is. People who say, “get over it” are the ones who just do not understand. Go read Tim O’Brien’s book, The Things They Carried. Try to get it. Then you’ll see why Jane Fonda will be loathed long after she is dead for her traitorous, unforgivable behavior.
I don´t really have an opinion about this Fonda case, as an europian I really don´t care, but DAM you americans like to go to the war even though i´ts half across the world and has little to nothing to do with you. That´s something us non americans will never understand…
I think she means that they ask her for forgiveness for hating her for so long.
@Sunday you know we Americans took over for France in Vietnam right? And you know about Europe’s history of colonialism and war across the whole damn world right? I thought Americans were supposed to be the ones ignorant of history.
I can’t stand this woman!
“One thing I love and find unique about America and American’s [sic] is that they never hesitate to help those who aren’t their own.”
Name one war America has entered / started out of altruism.
Exactly.
We can all agree to disagree
Americans have been fighting for their freedom since the beginning and we are fighters. Sorry Europeans. I know we like to scrap more than other countries but it is how we came to be who we are now.
Everyone has different opinions and as human beings we need to respect it. I don’t care for JF because my husband is military and I see first hand all the sacrifices that go into this way of life. I respect and admire my husband and am his biggest supporter. He didn’t decide to start a war but has had no choice in being sent to it and we as his family, had no say in it either.
If JF was sincerely sorry, she would make a little more effort like donating her time or money to helping out the vets that she hurt back then. A few “I’m sorries” don’t cut it as sincere. Since her book has come out and she is having trouble with sales, seems like she has been harping her her “I’m sorries” a lot more. I am a forgiving person but I just don’t see her as being sincere in this or being truly sorry. Sorry everyone…just being honest
Will people please stop acting as if she has apologised for her WORST actions? She has ONLY apologised for the gun picture. She has not apologised for getting soldiers killed and beaten by passing their notes on to the enemy. She has not apologised for rubbing salt into the wounds of POWs and calling them ‘liars’! I find both of those above to be MUCH MUCH WORSE than that harmless (in comparison) little gun picture. She has not apologised and REFUSES to apologise, for her WORST actions.
ONLY WHEN she TRULY apologises for the most CRUEL things she has said and done, will any ‘apology’ from her count. If you are not going to apologise for the harm your real actions and words caused, ALL of them, why bother?
tiki
I’m sorry, were you trying to be clever there or what? I mean that seemed like some type of weird appeal to anti-intellectual populism.
Are you actually mocking me for being…better read, I guess, than the average gossip site poster? You should consider what you are implying about your fellow posters next time you try to do something like that.
You realize you’re coming off as admitting you have no counter-argument other than to make an emotional appeal.
For all the people saying she committed treason; The Nixon State department tried to bring her up on charges, Justice told them they didn’t have a case.
Can anyone who believes she actually did harm explain what specifically she did? I guarantee you, whatever you find will either be a lie, or something less substantive than what other lesser known but just as prominent opponents to the war said or did.
Please post links. such as this one
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/11/blame-jane-falsehoods/
or this
http://www.library.vanderbilt.edu/central/Brush/fonda.html
And everyone posting might find this interesting. http://harpers.org/archive/2006/06/0081080
She can never make amends for the damage she caused to the prisoners in Hanoi, she should have been refused return into the US, TRAITOR
I am a former Soldier, and married to retired Soldier, I would not let her wipe his boots, and I would never put a dollar in her pocket by buying anything she sells or endorses
Laurie.
Again she did NOT commit treason, Nixon’s justice dept acknowledged that. 300 other major figures including Ramsey Clark went to North Vietnam.
“I am a former Soldier, and married to retired Soldier,”
And I’m guessing a current Free Republic poster?
“I would not let her wipe his boots ”
Oh, the hell with your stupid indignation. Jane Fonda has been eating crap for years because she took the long narrow path, and did the right thing.
McNamara, Kissinger, Westmoreland, all the rest who actually betrayed the masses, and the military. The ones who got people killed, they get to die as respectable members of society. They should be dealing with protests and boycotts, not Fonda.
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