Former child star Raven-Symone has been doing the press rounds. I think she’s promoting her role as Iridessa in The Pirate Fairy (the movie where Hiddles voices Captain Hook). Raven mostly does voice work these days, but that says nothing of her on-camera abilities. She was very charismatic during her television era. Voice work is a great way to keep paychecks rolling in and still maintain a relatively low profile. Raven is all about avoiding the clichéd Hollywood trappings — she shaded La Lohan during her recent Oprah interview.
In another new clip from this same discussion, Raven tells Oprah that she doesn’t like being labeled as “gay.” She’s “a human who loves humans.” She also doesn’t consider herself African American. She’s tired of labels and is simply American. Oprah nearly fell out of her seat: “Oh, girl. Don’t set up Twitter on fire…Oh, my lord. What did you just say?” Here’s how it went down:
On privacy: “People in my family, they’ve taught me to keep my personal life to myself as much as possible. So, I try my best to hold the fence where I can. But I am proud to be who I am and what I am.”
When she realized she was gay & shunning the label: “I knew when I was, like, 12. I was looking at everything. I don’t want to be labeled ‘gay.’ I want to be labeled ‘a human who loves humans.'”
She’s not into any label at all: “I’m tired of being labeled. I’m an American. I’m not an African American; I’m an American.”
Her response to Oprah’s shock: “I mean, I don’t know where my roots go to. I don’t know how far back they go…I don’t know what country in Africa I’m from, but I do know that my roots are in Louisiana. I’m an American. And that’s a colorless person. I don’t label myself. I have darker skin. I have a nice, interesting grade of hair. I connect with Caucasian. I connect with Asian. I connect with Black. I connect with Indian. I connect with each culture.”
She’s “a melting pot in one body”: “Aren’t we all? Isn’t that what America’s supposed to be?”
[From E! Online]
Raven has to know that her statements will create an uproar. Oprah even warns her of the backlash. I feel uncomfortable hearing anyone use the “colorless” in conversation. Raven’s performing a whole lot of verbal gymnastics here to convince herself.
Screencaps courtesy of OWN & YouTube; photos courtesy of WENN
You’re both, fool.
I could see her point if she said I’m not an African American, I’m a human being, but calling yourself an American is still a label.
So much for being tired of labels…
Although, to be honest, I have Hungarian roots from my father’s side, but because I was born and raised in a different country (I don’t even speak Hungarian), I don’t identify myself as one. In her case, I guess African-American sounds just too broad – she can’t pinpoint from which part of Africa does she come from, being only certain of the place she was actually born in.
Yeah I know what you’re saying and I tend to agree, but I think she was just drawing the distinction in where her roots are. To me, she was making the point that she identifies more with America than Africa.
Yes, that’s the way I see it too.
That makes sense. I interpreted it differently at first.
I look at it this way, I’m Irish and Comanche Indian by ancestry, but I have never been to a reservation, nor Ireland. I can only speak English and I have no connection with full natives or full Irish. My family maintains no customs of either group so we don’t identify ourselves as such. Why would I run around calling myself a Native American or an Irish American as I hold no identity or relationships within those groups. I’m a plain old American mutt. I am roughly the same age as her and my Irish side came over well after slavery ended so the American ancestry of any African American most likely predates my families American history on the Irish side. It’s possible she feels the same.
I agree with Raven I’m Black, not African American.
I have a very good friend who is Black – He has taken issue with being called African American also, for several years – because he says he is not from Africa, he is originally from Illinois, nor does he know if any of his family’s family has roots from Africa, most are from California – but he and his family have always been Americans.
I can understand, no one calls me an English, Scotch, Irish, Cherokee, other mixed heritage American
Exactly on point, Kitten
@ onthedownlow
I agree me too. I consider myself Black.
That’s what I got out of it too
Yes this.
I agree. Most African American have never nor will ever in their life set foot on African soil. They are Black Americans of African descent just as White Americans are of European descent, but most of these groups no longer have immediate ties to their ancestors’ countries of origin. I think people should first and foremost consider themselves to be American and try to find a bond with other Americans regardless of race and religious differences. We all live in this country now so we might as well get used to each other (here’s hoping).
Yes, exactly.
Onthedownlow
Raven is not actually saying she’s black either if you watch the interview She wants NO labels not just issues with the term AA
I think, Raven have right to her opinion and the way she feels about heritage. In the perfect world, maybe one day we will all feel the same way.
I am more surprised how Opah reacted….om we got you . Her spiritual quest didn’t take her to those place of universal one.
@elo,
I think the difference is that looking at Raven, people are going to see her black skin and deduce that she’s black. Few people can look at a white person and deduce that they’re Irish. Therein lies the difference.
As for what she said, one can be both, which is why both words are used. African AND American.
I don’t see how or why that makes her a fool. And I don’t understand Oprah’s supreme shock and warnings, falling out of her seat drama. She IS American. Where is she creating a firestorm or being foolish? Black people built this country off the skin of their backs for over 500 years. To be labeled as some “other” kind of American is part of the reason why racism is so persistent here- the “othering” of people so as to say they are not one of us.
No one said she wasn’t American. Being black or being called an African American isn’t denying anyone of an American identity.
Your statement is incorrect. The first (white) settlers arrived in the 17th century.
I think Oprah probably behaved like she was shocked because some people will take Raven’s remarks to mean that she’s trying to distance herself from being black. That’s a capital offense in the black community, and Oprah doesn’t want to see her being accused of self-hatred. I don’t think that’s what Raven meant, but some people will certainly take it that way. My problem with her statement is that “American” is a label as well. Also, while she may not know directly which African country she comes from, West African culture is an influence in the foods and customs of Louisiana and the American South, whether she acknowledges it or not.
There were white settlers in what is now the US earlier than the 17th century, Evie. I live about 45 minutes from St. Augustine, there are 16th century buildings there. And one of my own ancestors came here in the 1500s as well, a young Irish man who was conscripted by the King’s Army and chose to desert in what is now roughly South Carolina, where he married a person known in the records only as “Indian Woman”, thereby giving all of us our high cheekbones and skin that tans, not burns.
Come to think of it, no one calls white Americans, European Americans. I’ve read several gossip rags calling Idris Elba, African American.
How can she see herself as “colorless” with that hair? She’s spectacularly colorful.
Maybe she was being ironical
Hair is a pretty superficial attribute of a human being.
I know a lot of women (and SOME men too) who would take exception to a dismissal of hair as superficial. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I agree with you, but the multi-billion dollar industry built on human hair says otherwise!! 😉
She doesn’t see herself as colorless, but the word ‘American’. I think she means that you can be American regardless of your color, because the identity ‘American’ doesn’t pertain to a certain skin color?
^JOKE^. I thought it went without saying.
Yeah, my joke-radar is off today
It did Kiddo!!
Well, I tittered, anyway
😉
What can I say? Sleep deprivation is the enemy of humor.
Mrs. Slocombe would approve and if she’s on board, you can’t go wrong.
Syko. ^ ^ ^
(OT, just a meander)
What a thrilling discovery! Capt John Smith’s voyages, the earliest settlements…..I’ve long been fascinated by that period, imagining men’s lives. Like ‘stout Cortez’ upon a peak in Darien, staring about in ‘wild surmise’
Kinda obverse to that sailor ancester of yours is an inference in my family tree too…Although Ireland has only very scanty records, we appear to be, to the last corpuscle, entirely Irish, with not even any 12th century Norman blood.
However…..one look at my great-uncle does suggest ancient dalliance with a visiting sailor: a shipwrecked Spaniard, after the Armada, washed up on the western coast in 1588, and leaving behind him sporadically appearing jet black eyes and hair, and a robust tan even through winter.
Returning to labelling ourselves…..though thoroughly, DNA-speakingly Irish, I have also British citizenship, thanks to birth here. I identify myself as English because it’s in my blood in another way: through my education, and through cultural influences. I do get pulled up re this by relatives who feel I should be vociferously Irish, and so (to finally get to my point) perhaps this is Oprah’s position: that a hard-won, independent identity should not be sloughed off. (Answering my own query, there!)
She’s my little pony!
I keep thinking of a mermaid in the water. Not Ariel of course but one of the background mermaids.
Why do you have to label her a “pony”??!!
Sheesh, everyone and their labels.
What color pony are you, Mitch? Or is only females who get to be “my little pony”.
That is a very rude comment. I’m sorry Mitch. You are female, I forgot. Sometimes I get snappy and snippy with men.
I like this hair on her. When I first saw the picture on the site though, I thought it was Nicole Richie for some reason. There’s something similar about their eyes.
You know what? I’m with Raven. I reject the label “African-American.” I’m an American, who is also black. My ancestors may have “emigrated” from Africa centuries ago, but because they were property and not people records haven’t been kept that allow me to trace my roots back to that continent, let alone to a specific country, region or culture. I’m an American. I have no ties to Africa other than my skin color, and there are PLENTY of Africans who are white, so skin color isn’t really a reliable marker either.
It’s sad that she has to expect backlash for stating her opinion on her own self-identity.
+1
Good for her for seeing herself as a person first, and a skin color/ethic group second. I wish more people would have such senses of self.
+ another billion
^^^ x infinity
+1,000,000,000
I get both sides of this argument. Black has always had a negative connotation and in the 60’s and 70’s many Black people moved away from that word and started embracing the term African American because it identifies with a place.
Why has black got a negative connotation? In my opinion people of color is much more racist. People are not colored, they are white or black or whatever. But maybe I just don’t get it because english is not my first language.
@Liv
Same here, when I think “of color” I think of red, blue, purple. Not shades of pink and brown. I have black relatives in Brazil, and they refer to them just as “negros” (blacks). As far as I’m aware, there’s no offensive connotation to it.
Though it doesn’t surprise me, really. There is something more… sensitive about the English language. It seems like countries that speak that language attach more feelings to words. I’m not saying we’re better or worse for not being like that, just pointing out an interesting difference.
I agree.
Also, when polish,ukranian, russians etc can come to America and nicely slip into just being “American”, heck sometimes even “All-American”, that’s offensive to me. If you have ancestors that can be traced back to the damn boats that got us here and still be considered a second class immigrant while “others” who are white get to just arrive and be “just” American…yeah, nuff said.
And how many can say they have ancestors who came on the mayflower. Right, exactly.
But we know this already. We knew it with the irish immigrants, we knew it with the italians who came through ellis island and we for damn sure knew when it came to every other 3rd gen immigrant.
if you’re black you will never be considered “All American”.
I am able to trace my roots back thru the mists of time, but I am most proud to be an American, where we can change the face of what it means to be fully human.
I identify with my roots both good and ill. Yet, like *all* others, my roots were born of struggle. I am anxious for the victories of those who are engaged in appreciating their own history; certain that if they were to know their ancestors in full, they would find the same gifts, that are within us all.
At some point, history is about the past.
Do you have something against people from Central and Eastern Europe?
@Joanna
No (!?) Why do you ask?
@observer, Life was not rosy for immigrants…Italian, Scottish, or otherwise. The English looked down upon them. The English sold the irish people into slavery starting in the 1600’s, and there were irish slaves in Virginia and New England. Italians and Irish were not viewed as “white”.
Wolfpup
Absolutely. I can trace my roots far back and have dual citizenship with Greece. Still, I am an American. This culture is made up of many cultures. We’re a true melting pot.
And I love Raven’s points here. She only knows a part of her ancestry comes from a very large continent. She has no specifics and hasn’t connected to it.
I like Raven. She’s grounded and a thoughtful, well spoken person. Twitter might have a freakout, but I read nothing wrong with what she said.
@ Elle Kaye
I am well aware of that and American history in general.
The fact that Italians, Irish, and even jews (ashkenazi) are now ‘white’ in America kind of goes back to what I was saying in my earlier comment about the privilege of only being ‘American’. African Americans will never be ‘white’ in America and thus not enjoy the full privilege that white “passable” skin gives you. It’s interesting we don’t refer to Italian-Americans etc as European-American even though so called African Americans first stepped foot in the New World way before any italian, Irish Amercians.
Again, that was my point.
@Observer,
If you understand the reasoning behind Jesse Jackson pushing the the usage of “African American”, then it might make sense. He was trying to move away from the racial construct of “black” and move toward the ethnic heritage of “African American.” His intentions were noble, but they are becoming lost as we move forward. Change is inevitable. Some will continue to embrace the term, and some will move past it and view it as antiquated. That is to be expected. It is progress, and that isn’t a bad thing. It keeps the dialogue flowing.
What is wonderful, at least to me, are the people on this thread who are proud to be who they are…black americans, african americans, gay italian asians, etc. Whatever term they use, they are proud. That just makes this scottish/irish/nordic woman very happy.
I was about to say the same thing, just with ‘African-Canadian’. Plus, you could be Andorra or Monaco and the distinctions will be made, or you can be talking about second-largest continent in the world and get the same level of nuance. Granted, there are reasons as to we don’t have specficity on our side, but it still seems to smack of the ‘undifferentiated mass’ rhetoric pertaining to Africa. Heck, some fools still think it’s a country–I’ve met them.
So, I get why the term ‘African-‘ came about, people like to have a sense of place and history and to understand their places in a greater shared narrative, but it does, pardon the expression, ghettoize blacks. It suggests they are from the places where they are from, but with a bunch of asterisks and an appendix reminding everyone why they’re not. You don’t really belong here, you’re a transplant. But if you’re white, you get to be part of family the second you lose the accent, no qualifications necessary.
It’s a strange position because I do want to bear witness to those who came before me, but I don’t think that it should completely define what I am today. The term is tossed off so automatically, I get called African-American by people who know I’ve not been to the continent or country
I’m with you bendy. I refuse to call myself African American. Just because my ancestors originated from Africa doesn’t mean I have to be labeled as African. I don’t see some Caucasian people refering to themselves as Anglo-Saxon American or European American. Look at the census they get to use the word White. It makes it seems as if they are the founders of this country and have claim to it. Why is that?
If you notice Black people have the option of Black or African American. Most Africans consider themselves Black and so do I.Even on other forms I will never put African American. I am Black. I have never been to Africa and as far as I know my great great grandparents were born in America and the rest of my recent paternal and maternal family.
I’m white, and I feel the same way about the census form. Like – white is a color, not an ethnicity or nationality, when compared against all the other options. I feel like that word diminishes the complexity of a family’s history. That’s interesting that you see that category as a privilege with shades of “I belong here, you don’t.” Knowing the history of this country, you’re probably spot-on.
England colonized America, Spain colonized South America, slaves were delivered to both continents. Colonizers are there for the bloodthirst of adventure, but more importantly they came to put money into the coffers of Kings and Queens. These “colonizers” had to be insane in some sense, to do what they did to other humans – sociopaths actually. The only reason that they were able to subdue the populations they invaded ,is because of guns… Guns and money and insanity.
If one looks around the world to the places that were colonized, or were attempted to be as such…big problems exist. Look at the Middle East for a current example, colonized by blustering folk, who felt they had the right to take land (Palestine), and oil (money). Africa is another good example of bad colonizing…so much unrest, displacement of populations, but also the land with great character, shown as such by Nelson Mandela.
Even though Jefferson (a framer of America’s Constitution), did not feel as though he could stop the slave trade personally, he provided a victory for all people. Hopefully, all American’s recognize the opening statement of our Constitution, “We believe it is self-evident that all people are created equal”. That is why we are all Americans, regardless of race or creed.
“It’s sad that she has to expect backlash for stating her opinion on her own self-identity.”
I agree.
I’m not American , i’m not from African ancestors , and i’m 100% with you and Raven on this .
This.
I’m a second-generation American. My older brothers are immigrants – I’m the only baby born here. Even growing up in a Russian household, even speaking Russia, even having been Russian, I get sick of being a “Russian-American.” I didn’t grow up there. I don’t feel at home there. Quite frankly, I’d have more in common with a black American woman from a different state than me than I would with a Russian woman from my parents’ home town who looks just like me. My American experience has defined me more than my genetic ethnicity. I know “my black friend” is an annoying thing for the white girl to say, but I have a black friend who went to Kenya as a volunteer. She said that she expected to have a feeling of “home,” but just… didn’t. Hell, I feel the same way in Russia, and I’m only one step removed from Russia. We’re Americans.
“It’s sad that she has to expect backlash for stating her opinion on her own self-identity.”
This so much. She shouldn’t be bothered for something like this. It’s just the way she feels and she’s not offending anybody.
ita, she’s only talking about herself. she isnt telling anyone else how to define himself or herself. i have no problems with raven. although oprah’s OTT response gets my side eye.
I’m down with what she’s saying as well.
I prefer to be called Black. I don’t like African-American. It seems odd to me and I don’t like it.
I feel like I get what she’s trying to say, but I think she’s articulating it poorly. Colorless, along with “I don’t see color”, is problematic and implies a nonexistent racial utopia.
Technically speaking, since the theory of life has its origins in Africa, everyone in this country is likely African American, regardless of the shade of tone.
We were actually doing some genealogy research this weekend (we’re cool like that) and technically my ancestors are from East Africa. 79000 years ago, before eventually settling in Scotland and Britain and eventually America/Canada. I’m glow in the dark white – because 79000 years ago is a hell of a lot of time for characteristics to change when procreating.
I participated in a genetics study and I’ve got loads of Viking DNA! For some reason, I felt utterly tickled by that when I got the results.
Well, you as a Viking and me as a lizard monsterzilla can have a fine weekend of raiding and pillaging. But I can shoot fire from my mouth, so there’s that. Maybe we come from a long line of bad-breathed salamanders. I’ll have to look into that.
I’m jealous of your Viking roots. I’m also jealous of people who can do genealogy research on themselves. I can’t since I know nothing past my biological parents names (I was orphaned at aged 2.) All I know is that I was born in ireland and moved to the United States when I was in University and that I hold dual citizenship.
And another glow in the dark Viking, I’m so English I’m almost entirely Danish! I read somewhere that we are all descended from six African woman and the white skin tone is the result of the Ice Age and resulting genetic mutation.
Paranormal Girl – there are companies on the internet that will test your genes and tell you where you are descended from, you just send them a swab in the post. I know National Geographic did a huge study but there are bound to be others.
Also, have some Viking roots! Although it was hard to trace with 2 adoptions in the family line. My brother’s light hair and bright red beard though… a bit of a give away.
Paranormalgirl,
Google 123andme.com. You might be surprised what you can find out through a simple saliva test.
I always just use black, too.
I’m trying to recall which writer addressed this some time ago, from a comedy angle anyway…….perhaps William Boyd
There’s a black British businesswoman in the book, whom this chap does not dare describe except by using ‘African-American’……much to everyone’s confusion.
I was always uncomfortable with “African-American” denoting all dark-skinned people in America. There are plenty of “black” people who are Haitian, Jamaican or West Indean but not American.
Good for her! I like her comments.
I agree with her. Unless your parents are immigrants from another country, anyone born here is an American. Plain old, colorless American. I’m of Irish descent, but I can’t call myself Irish American, because I’m 4th generation born here.
+1
Exactly what she is saying and I agree 100%. My grandfather was from Lithuania but I do not identify as Lithuanian-American. I look like him but I’ve never been there and he died before I was born. So how could someone whose roots go back hundreds of years identify with being African?
Both my grandparents on my dad’s side are Lithuanian.
Labas! 😉
Hey, I’m 100% Lithuanian, labas to you both!
No way, Esmom! Awesome 😀
1+1 with you and Raven.
How is one African when the african part is related to some far far removed ancestors ? I could understand it from someone with double nationality, but in this case it is a label I never understood.
Do you celebrate St Patrick’s Day ? I see by your name that you do acknowledge in some way your Irish Ancestry
Said in a comment above – I’m the only person in my immediate family born in the US. But I’ve known a life of Wal-Mart and the pledge of allegiance and baseball and camping vacations. If you take me back to Russia tomorrow, all I’m going to do is spend one day sight-seeing and then start figuring out how the HELL I can get back to Chicago ASAP. 😛
So funny, Katija!
i care NOTHING about what she said, all i want is every hair anglr amd her colorist to give me a cheat sheet to how to do that to mine!!! (And also info on how her brows got to prospering…cuz!!….)
Additionally im here for letting people self label or not however they choose to for themselves and I’ll follow suit when addressing em irrespective of if it’s this particular cis gendered heterosexual latina afro caribeña’s personal preference
Yes!! Well said.
Now, those eyebrows…I have autoimmune thyroid disorder, and the older I get, the more they disappear!
Rave Symone’s position is not new. There are a lot of black people that don’t like or want to be to be referred to as African American. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/05/black-or-african-american_n_1255679.html
I understand what she means being tired of labels – so am I. This need we have to define ourselves and each other is exhausting. I do think she did a poor job of articulating her point.
Oprah’s reaction is priceless. BTW, I just spent one hour of my work life perusing this site. I have to go earn my keep.
Oprah was soo funny. I get what Raven is saying. I agree with her in a way. Whites are not labeled European American as much as Blacks are labeled African American, yet Whites are called All-American? It seems strange.
Not at all strange – it is part of the deep history of this country in which white skin offered privilege — Irish, for example, weren’t always considered fully white, but over time and in part because Irish people vehemently denied being non-white (often resorting to intense prejudice about blacks with whom they shared a lot of things including jobs, neighborhoods, and social stigma) the Irish came to be considered white. Indeed, for most white ethnics, the ethnic part was easy to hide after a generation or two. Being considered white brought a lot of privilege, hence a great desire to make ethnicity invisible. I say this all as someone who is part Irish-American and as an historian. It is interesting to hear that people don’t want to identify by race now, which I understand, but as an historian, so many social inequalities spring from our nation’s racial past that we have to talk about race in order to understand them. This is a really interesting conversation.
I once heard another talk show host say similar.
the thing is when Americans travel their PAssport just says United States of America ,citizen, no classification of race.
I believe Reagan Era brought those classifications in.
Do people always say Italian American a lot, sometimes, but not all the time.
Irish American, Polish American , French American, German American, No! It seems odd that African American and Latin and Asian groups of Americans are usually classified first by a different country or continent but the European groups aren’t usually. Just saying. The European descendants don’t get the prefix label.
And many African Americans have been in the U.S. much longer than many other American groups and many African American families are a mixture over 300-400yrs of Americans blending,even though it was not rounds acknowledged in earlier days.
Just saying. I agree with her.
That’s pretty much what I was going to say. I hate being called Asian American. It’s as though I have to qualify my citizenship, whereas whites do not. I feel as though I’m reassuring people that I’m American despite my Asian face, it’s just so awkward and enraging.
But they all used to (and in some places, still do – my Irish-Am relatives in the Detroit area describe everyone by their ethnicity). The fact that white ethnics become just white is part of a long history. Certainly before WWII that was not at all the case, and even afterwards. It is great that people feel that these lines are disappearing, but we have to understand the past in order to understand the inequalities of the present. And to understand that, we have to know how race/ethnicity worked and continues to work in our country.
It was Jesse Jackson who championed the change from “black” to “African American”.
There were always labels…growing up, I remember the term, “colored” being used. As a young girl in grade school, I remember hating this word. If I was white, why were they “colored”? It seemed like an insult. When my father would use it, I would ask him, “what color are they?” The term, “black”, was then the accepted word. Until the term, “African American.”
Change happens. I will embrace whatever positive changes need to be made to advance society. I remember when it was taboo, and downright dangerous, for a mixed race couple to date, let alone marry. I may have been a little girl, but I knew it was wrong. We have come a long way, but we still have so far to go. I understand what Raven is saying, she just wants people to be seen as people, regardless of their religion, sexual preference, or skin color. She is coming from a unique perspective, and I would love for us to get to that point in society. But with the polarization the media pushes on us, I worry.
No not true, it was the US Governmentwho created these labels.
It was Ronald Reagan’s Adminsitration who wanted to label Americans by groups during the huge censuses they did during that era.
The Reagan Adminsitration brought these labels to fruition on Government paperwork with that Census.
Americans were asked to clarify their ethnicity and the arrival of
Asian American, Latin American , African American came into usage on government paper work.
Although it was on the census, Jesse Jackson created a movement that pushed for the use of “African American” to be the accepted “label”
I think it has to do a lot with the history of this country. In other countries I have visited they are not labeled for instance : Afro-Dominican or Afro-Colombian… they just call themselves Dominican or Colombian. I am third generation Puerto Rican and second generation Colombian but to be honest when I visit either country they tell me I am American and I can see the vast difference in so many ways because although my parents tried to keep the culture going and I speak Spanish I am very much more American all the way down to the way I dress and cook it’s very different from my families over there.
She has a very dangerous way of thinking about identity and I don’t encourage it. Be gone, girl.
Dangerous? How? Is her saying that she’s American, not African-American going to cause someone to die?
“Dangerous” means “causing someone to die”? I do not think it means what you think it means.
Well, I’m not prone to hyperbole. I’m trying to figure out what’s “dangerous” about her comments or her way of thinking. I don’t think I’m the one who’s unfamiliar with the word.
Raven is referring to the idea of racial colorblindness. She doesn’t want to see race. Not “seeing” race would also have to coincide with the idea of not seeing the advantages and disadvantages race brings to people, not only in the United States, but in countries abroad. The idea of racial colorblindness would have been great centuries ago, but since people have benefited from the color of their skin rather than “being human”, we have to see color. You can’t benefit from what your skin color (gender, sexual orientation) has given you and then, ask that we all be seen as equal when, clearly, you have life better than others because of it.
I hear you. I cringe when people use “colorblind”. I’m not excusing her comments, but I think as a queer woc in the spotlight she’s probably just over it. It would have been awesome if she said being black and an American are not mutually exclusive.
Charlize Theron is an African American woman. Now I get the point she was trying to make. Thanks Blythe
Charlize isn’t an American citizen. I think she has a green card or visa of some sort.
Charlize became a US citizen in 2007 according to her bio on IMDB. Dave Matthews, the singer, is African American as well.
Nothing dangerous.
She sounds perfectly well thought out. She’s also not the first to say this.
I just find it a bit racist that African American, Asian american and Latin American citizens seem to be the only ones to usually get classified with another prefix but most of the Europeans immigrants or European descended Americans do not.
I’ve even read that some Native Americans find Native American term offensive.
It is “a bit” racist, but who do you think distributed those labels to those groups? You think Asian-Americans called themselves “Asian-Americans” after coming to America? These were diverse groups in Asia that were categorized as one class of people. Who do you really think made those labels for non-whites?
Blythe, if you’re saying that white people made up these labels, you’re just wrong. The only reason I ever used “African American” was because I was told (years ago) that it was preferred by black people. I never liked it especially, because it’s long and not always accurate. But all of a sudden, all black people were referring to themselves as African American, and it was politically incorrect to say “black.”
Blythe, it was Jesse Jackson who pushed for the use of “African American” It wasn’t meant to be divisive.
Wrong! It had not one thing to do with Jesse Jackson. This was all done by the U.S. Government during the Census during the Reagan Adminsitration.
It was during the Ronald Reagan Adminsitration when the Government did Huge Censuses to count American citizens. A census had not been done on a huge scale for years and the Reagan Admninstratiom decided to break American citizens up into groups by labels on the Census data sent around to homes across the USA. People were asked to label themselves, there were pre written labels
With boxes to check African American, Latin American, Asian American, …then there were Americans of European descent. But no prefix was given for Americans of European descent,
After that Census suddenly almost all government, educational and personal paper work asked for clarification of the newly assigned Ethnic group.
Not being American, I am not 100% clued up here but certainly thought it was deemed more courteous to replace ‘black’ with ‘AA’. (Not in Britain, where this never arose)
But comments cite other potential labels, such as Irish/Italian etc-American, as never being used….well yes they were! (The Sopranos, just as an example, or of course the Kennedys, often amusingly and wrongly also referred to as WASPy….)……Perhaps it was an 80s/90s zeitgeist under which clubbiness-cum-distinctiveness was valued.
Whatever….
It feels saner to pick up ‘black’ again…..the double-barrelled business was on its last legs, to judge from the varied responses here.
(By god this is a gobbledegook comment. My apologies.)
someonestolemyname
If you google it, you will see lots of references to Jesse Jackson leading the movement to refer to blacks as African American. You may be right about the census thing, too. Maybe it was simultaneous. My only point was that I was around when this happened, and I started using AA because that’s what I was told POC preferred, and I believe that was true of other white people. It was meant as a courtesy, because I felt that groups have a right to decide what they want to be called. Just as we no longer call Native Americans “Indians.” I don’t want to get in a big fight about it, as it’s a trivial point, but I think you misunderstand the origin of the term and the motives behind it if you think white people just decided it was a new way to oppress black people. For once, I think we were just trying to be nice. Lol
@someone…questions about race have been asked since 1790 on the census. There is no reference to “African American” until 2000.
The census was never meant to hurt people…that is not the goal.
I have been around for a while now…this topic isn’t just something I heard about…I lived it. Along with ERA. There is a great deal of misinformation, I understand. But Jesse Jackson wanted to do the right thing. Times are simply changing yet again. It happens.
@GNAT I think this is one of the very few times I disagree with you. That label was made up by Whites. It was during the Reagan Administration. Jessie Jackson then jumped on board to use AA as oppose to Black. The gov’t gave us an option by including AA and Black on the census. Also as a Black woman living in urban NY most Blacks hate the term AA and prefer to be called Black. One of the reasons I gave upthread is why. We were not born in Africa. Why do Whites get to say White and not Anglo-Saxon American or European American. Look at the census it says White. It’s more of a privilege. But Blacks have to list themselves as foreign by saying AA. No, I’m Black American, like Whites are White Americans.
Onthedownlow or Someone,
Can you please show me where you find these references to Reagan and the 1980 census…for African American does not show up on a census until 2000. Also, why is it you find the census so distasteful? What do you think it is being used for? I really am curious. Jesse Jackson used this term widely in the 1980’s…I know, I was there.
Wow, onthedownlow, I am really, truly shocked by that. I honestly only ever used it because I felt that, until the past couple of years, it was preferred by black people themselves. Thanks for telling me that. I feel really bad now. Of COURSE you’re just as American as a white American. I’ll never use it again.
Elle Kaye, I’m talking about who created these labels for non-White groups in America; not who pushed for it. That’s where you are confused. Jesse Jackson certainly did not create the identity “African-American”. You got that right.
Blythe, he pushed for it and main-streamed it. It was also more common place than you think. Those highly educated preferred the term.
@ Elle, people on this thread are trying to have a mature discussion . Don’t think I didn’t pick up on your well hidden snark when you say highly educated people preferred the term AA. There are plenty of highly educated Black People who prefer to be called Black. This is not the first time this topic has been debated.
Google some response to this and you will find Blacks from all walks
of life prefer to be labeled as Black if labeled at all. Jesse Jackson pushed for it but Jackson doesn’t speak for an entire race of people.
Oh and I never used the words census and Regan in the same sentence. I just pointed out that AA terminology started during the Regan Administration, google it, and I just pointed out how White is on the census for Caucasian, while Blacks have AA and Black. A quick view of my comments will prove that.
@GNAT
Nothing to apologize for
Its sees to me @onthedownlow and someonestolemyname are too young to remember when the civil rights and PC police were insisting that the name AA be used instead of black .I vividly remember as there were many West Indians , Panamanians etc that didn’t like the view that America is the world and therefore all black people are AA
its 2014 people may choose to either embrace or reject AA but it came from a place even if misguided of claiming American citizenship and giving people a sense of identity /community
@OTDL…Your inferences are unfounded and have no place in civil discussion. I have no idea why you are looking for the worst, but there was no ill intent, and what I wrote was based in fact and not meant to be taken as “snarky” or put anyone down in any way. People in higher education, in colleges and universities, did prefer the use of the term “African American”, and it was used there before it was commonplace in society. This can be researched, I can assure you.
I am curious as to your age, because, at the time, Jesse Jackson did speak for a vast number of people. He tried to break down the racial divide by using ethnicity (African American) instead of race (black). I’m not re-writing history, I’m just explaining it to you because I was there.
Thanks, Andypandy. I of course could be wrong, but at the time, as I said, it was my impression that that black people wanted to be called AA. In fact, I remember rolling my eyes at my parents and correcting them, like the obnoxious twit I was. I thought I was doing a good thing at the time.
@ONDL, please read…
http://www.virginia.edu/woodson/courses/aas102%20(spring%2001)/articles/names/bennett.htm
@Elle I stand by my comment. By saying highly educated people preferred the use of AA is indirectly saying that the less educated are ignorant and therefore that’s why they might prefer to be called Black. There was no need to bring education into this at all. It’s mainly about people’s opinions.
I read and do you really think Jesse Jackson would have came up with the term AA on his own. The gov’t coined that term. He tried to make it a positive and no, not every Black person was on board.
As far as the person who mentioned the Civil Rights Era, yes I am well informed. That still doesn’t change that a lot of Black Americans of today are not fond of being called AA. Being called Black means something and it dates back to the history of slavery. But go ahead and call yourself AA if you wish; I am Black. It’s my right to label myself as such. Who are you ou to tell me I’m wrong.
I can remember the days of my dad driving from the North to the South and him telling me of seeing the Segregated signs for fountains and hotels.
I’ve visited the old markets in the Carolina’s and read the actual ships log books and log lists of people brought in on ships being placed up as chattel or property for sale and the horrible, nightmarish terms written for them.
I also remember quite well the Martin Luther King I Have A Dream Speech, as a child.
I am quite schooled on the civil rights movement ,as my father a lawyer took part in it.
I know very well of what I speak.
I also have family that currently works in Washington.
I have full knowledge of paperwork brought into fruition during Reagans administration which began the official use of classification of people using prefixes or labels.
That’s all I’ll say on it.
End of
Jeez, give the kid a break. We all get what she’s saying. She didn’t intend to insult anyone. She just wants to be a modest celebrity American girl WHO HAPPENS TO BE black and gay. It doesn’t define her as a person. Those who care sooooooo much about race and p-ssed over this are the racists.
And also, it’s OK to identify as an American people. She can identify however she wants.
+1
Oprah really brought the extra in this interview. Reaching for the smelling salts with one hand and a fainting couch with the other. “Oh, girl. Don’t set up Twitter on fire… Oh, my lord. What did you just say?” UGH.
Speaking for myself, I cannot stand it when us gays are asked “when did you know?” We don’t one day wake up and while brushing our teeth have a moment of clarity and exclaim “A-HA! So THAT’S what’s different about me!”
Yes well Oprah does know how to sensationalize. Always reminds me of when she pretended to be all nice to the author of “A Million Little Pieces” and totally tore him a new one on TV.
A breath of fresh air – an independent thinker! Stars and stripes forever! This is the ultimate truth of humanity – we are all the same. In my mind, those who identify as African American do so because that is what they have learned from others. I’ve been with folks who are black but they were not been socialized by those who wish them harm; such as trying to posit them as inferior or unworthy. Those folks were color blind, really. The experience of those who still push back against being treated with disrespect, are right to do so, as the struggle for human rights is the struggle humanity has been engaged with, since the beginning of time. and in all countries on earth. Perhaps this is part of the evolution of homsapion sapions. Ultimately, the goal is to be comfortable in each others presence, and with the ability to establish harmonious ties. I hope so.
I deeply appreciate her statements, as it is my inner truth.
Oh and That’s cool if she isn’t African American, I hope this also applies to any roles calling for an African American woman. Hope she remembers that when she is auditioning for roles and doesn’t apply for any African American roles. *rolls eyes*
My guess is that she would just apply for roles looking for a woman in her late 20s to early 30s
+1000
Roles should be colourless.
“Roles should be colourless.”
Hahaha – yes and NO. I’d be a little uncomfortable with “In the role of a lifetime, Blake Lively is… Rosa Parks,” but for movies that don’t demand anything specifically, screw it. Let whoever play whoever.
Ok good point.
It would be another example of Blake Lively’s excellent choice in roles. Savages always comes to mind.
If she doesn’t want to label herself,that is her right.She realizes others will label her because some people like to put people in a box and label them.
“What are you? Are you Black or White? Are you Straight,Gay or Bisexual?
As long as she doesn’t box herself in, that she lives whatever is true to her, who cares what othes have to say about her. She should live her life, so should we all.
I get what Raven was trying to say. I don’t consider myself African American either because I don’t know what country in Africa my ancestors were from. Her saying her people are from Louisiana, and that it is colorless(meaning the state) is technically true.
I’m a black American, and don’t wish to be called African American.
I absolutely agree with her. I don’t think she is stating it in the best way but I completely agree with the sentiment. I’m not African American. African Americans are people like Charlize Theron, imo who have a connection back to Africa. I have none.
I myself am “light skinned” Black woman and the multiple lanes of color that have come down through the years to create me go back for generations in America. I’m American.
What? Charlize Theron is the legitimate African-American and 40 million Black people in America with west African ancestry are not, huh? Charlize Theron has absolutely no African DNA. Whites in South Africa are of Dutch and British ancestry and refer to themselves as Afrikaners not Africans. They speak a Dutch and English blended language called Afrikaans.
Please read about the Boer wars.
How many generation does it take for someone to have the right to belong ? If being of english or dutch ancestry means she ‘s not african, are you implying that so called ‘african american’, being of african ancestry are not american ?
If you’re born there and have citizenship you ARE African, it doesn’t matter what colour you are. It’s not the DNA that counts, we are all made up of countless DNA strands from all over the world. I’m Canadian but I have everything from English to Irish to French to Scandinavian in my background, but I am 100% Canadian as I was born there.
I feel like you are trolling so I wasn’t going to reply this late but I’m in a mood.
1. According to your logic, Brionne, 90 percent (just a number I’m throwing out here) of people from Northern Africa are not “African”. I don’t want to speak for entire countries here but I would guess most if not all Egyptians, Moroccans, Tunisians, etc would also consider themselves African, despite their skin color.
2. Charlize Theron is merely the first name I could think of while typing. It’s called an example. 2b. I know about the Boer Wars.
I’m speaking to the common occurrence of people trying to say a white woman of Dutch and British ancestry is legitimately African-American while so-called “Black” people in America with west African ancestry are not. Why are people insisting that she is correctly called African-American while those of us with actual AFRICAN ancestry and who prefer to be called African-American rather than labeled by a color are told we are not legitimately African-American??? I find it strange and irksome
Charlize Theron is African.
Africa happens to be the continent she was born in, so she is African.
Besides no one knows what is in her full family tree. As I noted earlier both Reese Witherspoon and Heather Locklear’s familial lineage was at one point said to be descendant of Southern slaves who had children and crossed racial lines to go on to live as white.
Just as American is not a race, African is not a race.
America is a continent
Africa is a continent
Charlize happens to be a Caucasian who is African. Caucasian is her race and she is African.
Technically Africa is made up of varying racial backgrounds, even though one racial background may be more predominant to the Continent.
Also no one knows what DNA Charlize may or may not have in her.
DUDE she is a South African, born in Africa. She was born and raised in South Africa, and is a Boer who speaks Afrikaans as her first language. I would never consider her American since she was neither born nor raised in the US.
I’m (obviously) assuming that she would identify as South African.
In the US, you can say you are half this and a quarter that when someone asks you about where your family is from. But when traveling abroad and you were either born and/or raised in the US, you are and will always be American. I’m not really sure why that is considered a “label” in some of the earlier comments.
+1
Good for her! I wish more Americans would look at each other as fellow humans instead of compartmentalizing each other by race, political party, or religion.
+1
I think a lot of people will misunderstand what she is saying. She doesn’t relate to Africa because her roots are so far back. You can’t get mad at black people for not wanting to identify with a continent that they are so far removed from. People who get mad at her comment need to get mad at Caucasians who don’t identify as European. I’m saying this as an African.
Just in a technical sense, an African American is someone who immigrated from Africa and became an American citizen. Just as, say, a German American is one who immigrated from Germany to become an American citizen. Only pointing this out to illustrate why I can understand her shying away from that label. That being said, it’s all about personal truth. If someone else’s personal truth is to identify as an African American, more power. It’s obviously just not Raven’s truth.
That is not what African-American means, in a technical sense. You will never find that written in a high school history or social studies textbook. It is an ethnic identifier CREATED by people who wanted to be known as something other than Nword and something other than skin color. It refers to a specific group of Americans with a common history culture and political experience.
Exactly. People saying “I don’t know what part of Africa I’m from” don’t understand that this is exactly WHY African American applies, rather than Ghanaian or Kenyan American or whatever. IMO, African American is synonymous with American blacks who are not of recent immigrant decent.
Nobody has a problem with people calling Asians, Asians-no matter how long they’ve been in America, so there goes that point.
I get Raven’s point but she sounded like an idiot. American is just as much of a label as African American, but you don’t like labels? Ok.
@ Tiffany27 & BendyWendy
As I see it, it’s not necessarily about a tie to Africa per se. However, that is an element. I see it as more definitions & demands for personhood & citizenship & dignity & respect—especially if u look back at the historic labeling of African Americans. For example, African Americans as slaves were legally counted as 3/5 a person (not even a whole being). With the march of history & the demand to be treated with dignity & along with notions of self-concept & the demand to be treated with integrity came the progressive name changes, i.e., n*gger, negro, colored, Afro-Americanblack, and finally African American.
Re: Raven – I think that as part of the process of getting comfortable in her own skin she thinks she is renouncing all labels (but, of course American is a label). But we all label ourselves: mother, daughter, friend, etc., according to whatever we think is accurate and even those evolve & change over time. Perhaps in a few years time, she will find one that fits her best/better.
Good for her.
In the US we are currently and will increasingly continue to live in a multicultural society. Because of this, younger generations, who grow up in this reality, are less likely to use labels as a means to separate/divide one another. And if that’s her point, labels used to seperate, then I kind of understand what she trying to say.
However, more than ever these labels are being used to define the different things each group brings to the US culture, to celebrate and as a point of pride and differentiation.
So the idea that one would no longer want to define themselves by those unique elements that contribute to our evolving American society seems wrong to me. I was born and raised in the US, but I definitely define myself just as much by my Hispanic culture.
Yes, Labels can and have been used to divide, marginalize and stroke hatred in this country. And we have a long way to go in some areas of society that still use differences in harmful ways.
But if there was ever a time to be proud to define ourselves, I feel this is it. To show the power of our differences and how these differences fuel a better US culture overall.
ITA. The 3rd generation from the latest will have different labels with different meanings from now.
Sorry for not playing your gender/sexual preference/race drawer game, Oprah.
To me an African-American is someone who was born in Africa but has immigrated to the U.S. and received their American citizenship. Period. Black or white. I wouldn’t call myself an “English-Canadian”, sure my grandparents came over from England but that’s it. I was born in Canada and am Canadian. So I get what she’s saying – that continuing to apply labels to people that pertain to their ethnicity is just one more way of compartmentalizing the races.
Most Africans I.D. with their country so they would call themselves Ethiopian-American, Nigerian-American etc just like someone from Europe who immigrated to America would call themselves Irish-American, Italian-American etc instead of “European-American”.
Black Americans are so divorced from our African roots that we can’t pinpoint where we originated any more. Just out of curiosity I sent in one of those Ancestry.com DNA kits. The results were all over the continent — Togo, Benin, Congo, Cameroon, Mali, Senegal, Ghana, Nigeria, and southeast Africa — and that was just 41% of the total. The rest of me came from England, Ireland, Germany, Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, and Central Asia. I just call myself American and have done with it.
Keep living Raven…..keep living.
I agree with her totally. And I am impressed with her willingness to face the backlash. We’ve become such a sensitive, easily offended lot these days. Opinions are like a$&holes, we all have them. I’m too old to have known her work but consider me a new fan, Raven!
I’ve been a fan for a while. She really has always conducted herself with an air of class her peers have lacked and has been a positive role model for young girls.
I agree with her on that. People don’t refer to caucasians as caucasian Americans. Why would they refer to people who weren’t born in Africa or likely never been to Africa as African Americans. I’m of German descent but people don’t call me German American.
I’ve ran into people who ask me what I am and I respond..I’m American!
It’s not like I just got a boat here OR rode an alien space ship down from another planet. I get her point.
That’s so Raven.
I use the term African American because that where my ancestors are from. I don’t understand why African American aka black people don’t like to be associated with the word African like it’s something bad. I also don’t call myself black because my skin isn’t black it’s brown, why call a race of people black when they’re actually brown.
My sister’s friend does not like being referred to as African American because his ancestors are from the islands. My grandparents are from Germany,so I should insist on being referred to as German- American. Personally,I am fed up with the hyphens. We are all Americans…period!
Well, but by the same logic, I’m not “white,” I’m beige.
Raven is right. She is an American. The US is extremely divided and it is about time that Americans lose the hyphens and unite as a country! There are too many political groups who seek to divide this country into their special little groups and not enough groups who find the many things we all have in common.
Just a question for white South Africans…how do the colonized population view their colonizers, who are white, usually from England? Is there a sense of entitlement from the riches that they harvested from other’s property, including their bodies?!!!!! What are your thoughts about Mandela?
Hi Wolfpup. I am of Dutch descent white South African. British colonies do sometimes refer themselves as British but Afrikaners don’t. It would actually weird me out if somebody called Dutch-African or European African. F-ck no! That ship sailed (literally) 3 generations ago. My mother is white Kenyan, she is from a British colony and she always refered herself as Kenyan. I cannot talk for black people in America since my situation is almost completely the opposite but i wouldn’t like being labeled as European- African. I have been to both Germany and England and they were nice to me. There aren’t discriminations on both sides but Afrikaners won’t refer themselves as German,Dutch or any other thing anytime soon.
Oh, by the way, we love Nelson Mendela. Apartheid was of course mostly harmful to black people but many white people weren’t happy with it too because of isolation from other countries. I was born in 1992 so i did not experience apartheid. All i know is from my parents and they say it was a jumbled mess.
Thank you kindly, maybeiamcrazy.
This is such a tricky issue…I can certainly sympathize with not wishing to label oneself, that doing so just creates further divisions among people. HOWEVER, I do see some importance to acknowledging one’s roots, especially if you’re part of a community or communities with a history of oppression and/or marginalization. I’m third gen. Canadian with a Ukrainian background, but I do have trouble calling myself “just Canadian”, because of the discrimination Eastern Europeans in Canada faced in the 19th century. I just feel that I need to acknowledge and respect the crap they put up with so that their descendants could have a better life. I’m not a chauvinist about it, but I like to tip my hat to my roots, because they’re part of who I am.
I am too lazy to watch the actual interview, but it seemed to me that she was more tired of constantly sporting labels to point out her differences, i.e. a “gay” actor, an “African-American” actor, as opposed to actually being ashamed of or denying what she is. It is not my place to tell her how or how not to identify, being a straight, white female, but I certainly understand her desire to claim my privilege of just being a mostly unlabeled American.
I understand where she’s coming from. I’m personally very tired of people questioning my heritage because I don’t look Anglo nor is it obvious what other ethnic group I am from. I have also started to say American.
irish mexican and because my mom didn’t speak spanish to us her side treats us like crap.
my mom was totally born into the wrong famiy and in the wrong era!!!!
On a personal note it is a non-issue; she will be defined wither she likes it or not. But many will see her comment as none of their business.
Don’t people have any interest in knowing, why the term “African American” came into being?
It wasn’t a segregation tool. It was Jesse Jackson attempting to give people a sense of ethnic identity in the late 1980’s.
Therein lies the confusion, in my opinion. Race is our physical characteristics. ie, skin color, facial type. The major races being; white, black, native American, Hispanic/Latino, Asian. Ethnicity is where we come from…our ancestry. Mr Jackson went from a racial identifying term, “black”, to a ethnic identifying term, “African American.” But I believe that is what he was attempting to do…move us away from racial identifiers. Sadly, years later, people do not understand his motivation and it brings about speculation on where it came from and why.
However people wish to be recognized is their own choice…but we should at least understand the basis.
Interesting… I’ve never made that connection before. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Said something similar down thread not a fan of the term but understand the historical context in which it was introduced
Wrong.
I made similar comments upthread about definition & self-concept & dignity. Historical context is key when understanding anything about race (particularly) in the US.
For me, black /African Americans are interchangeable descriptors that I apply to myself. My grandmother would probably say colored folks. The progressive terms were / are steps forward, i.e, 3/5s of a person / n*gg*r, then negro/colored/ Afro-American then black / African American.
Perhaps the last frontier is simply to be labeled American. However, America and Americans have a lot of psychological & emotional work to do before we can say forget that history, it’s divisive or that it doesn’t matter.
Where it becomes interesting is when a black (racially) person who was born and raised in say Sweden (nationality) moves to America….they are classified as ‘African American’. Shouldn’t they be classified as “European-American” or “Swedish-American”.
Charlize Theron is African. She is born and raised in South Africa and moves to America…this is where white privilege comes in…..she has a choice.
She can say she is African-American or South African-American and no one will say a thing, but usually she doesn’t have to I.D. as anything other than ‘American’. That’s white privilege.
Im black Not an American and used to find it irksome when people would call all black people AA when in fact they could be Trini , Brazilian Panamanian etc.
That being said one needs to understand the historical context , there was at time that people used to refer to blacks/ colored/ negroes AS if they were outsiders and didn’t belong in the USA. Civil right leaders came up with the term African-American to remind people that they Are American Citizens just like everybody else been here for 400 years and that they didn’t fall from the sky their roots were in Africa similar to Italian Americans root being in Italy Etc.
(And its not true that European American don’t honor their roots as their would be no Columbus day St Patrick day etc)
Yes! This! It was the first time black people chose an identity for themselves and it defiantly declared them American. Afro-American and then African-American. You are right. Not every black person is African-American. There are Afro Caribbeans, Afro Latinos, and as my sweetheart likes to point out Africans in America.
AFRICAN-AMERICAN describes a group of people with a unique history and culture via the slavery experience in America. It’s why it’s ridiculous for people to say “it was 150 years ago. Get over it!” African-Americans still sing the songs that slaves sang in the fields when they sing spirituals in church. African-American grannies and aunts still cook a certain way. Dance, song and speech patterns are still influenced by that era. It informs who African-Americans are. It cannot be gotten over. Of course Raven is free, as an American to define herself or not define herself as she pleases (it’s what all those ancestors protested, sat-in, marched, faced dogs, firehoses, lynching, and picking cotton for after all) but it seems like she has no sense of history. Is an amorphous undefined self concept really the ultimate state of being?
If you don’t want to get over it, what do you want? White privilege will become obsolete. What do you want to build? Share your vision…
Wolfpup I really don’t understand what you are asking me. I’d like to. I’ve tried to explain how the experience of a couple hundred years of bondage in America has affected the way so-called Black Americans talk, cook, sing, dance, tell stories, preach, etc. I proudly take from that history resilience, ingenuity, doing the best I can so the next generation doesn’t face the same obstacles and so many more lessons. Why would I want to forget that and get over it.
White privilege isn’t becoming obsolete any time soon with law enforcement able to kill unarmed blacks with impunity, lawsuits are filed every time someone thinks they didn’t get admitted to the school or job they wanted because of some other persons identity, politics is filled with polarization based on racism, and banking practices still include redlining minorities. These are things we must all work on but I don’t foresee them becoming obsolete any time soon.
Brionee: It is because we are are focusing on these injustices that I have hope, because I have witnessed change. I believe in voting. The will of the people has caused tremendous change around the world.
Although old bad ideas must become obsolete, in all the ways that you describe I am hearing some of my favorite things about many black people . As a girl, I was impressed with the strength and dignity of black women. Now I see the signature of womanism; the strength revealed. Don’t let the experience of your life be affected by any variety of psychopath, especially the garden variety… We all deserve to be happy, and to whistle while we work. Don’t become embittered because of other’s behavior, so much as you are able. I’m not speaking to you directly Brionne, but I think most Americans envy black people for lots of reasons,
Totally agree. Plus the US didn’t really start allowing African immigrants (Nigerians, etc) full-scale entry into the country as citizens until the mid-1960s.
I don’t know anything about this woman but she’s done everyone a service by forcing a reflection on current terminology. There’s a very uneven grasp of the reason for ‘African-American’ here, and presumably the same applies in the street.
What surprises me is that Oprah W should be taken aback in this manner. (Not so much as a black person, but as such an important public bellwether. There’s clearly a serious discussion awaiting an airing)
Oprah grew up in the deep south and understands how hard black people fought for the right to declare themselves as something other than Nword. Perhaps it’s a generational thing and seniors haven’t done a good job of helping juniors understand the historical context of African-American as an identifier. I’m willing to bet Oprah feels Ravens stance is a slap in the face to all those who came before and wanted to give Raven an opportunity to save face. Maybe Cliff Huxtable should give Raven a call.
In terms of import and context, this is tantamount to an obviously ethnic Jewish actor saying oh I don’t define myself by old labels, I’m just American. I connect with Russians and Germans and Arabs.
There would be a collective gasp from Israel heard round the world.
Brionne
Of course, re Oprah’s background and so on, I do see what you mean.
Even so, to an outsider it seems that there’s a blœdy great elephant in the room, while a proportion black citizens are against the term discussed.
I’m just surprised it was a surprise, since one gets the idea that she is fêted because she’s reliably in touch with any wave of feeling among the general population.
There is a generation of people who grew up in the 60s and 70s with Black Activism and would view people distancing themselves from their blackness and African ancestry as a disappointment. This especially after so much of the psychology of the civil rights movement and black power movements were about claiming blackness, viewing blackness as beautiful, embracing African roots and rejecting all the negativity about Africa and Africans that had been steeped into black people over the course of a couple centuries.
@Brionne – I agree.
I am adopted and was given up at birth. I have absolutely no idea what my ethnic heritage is. And maybe because I have never known, I couldn’t care less. And just because I don’t identify with any particular ancestry I don’t feel less connected to others, but in fact I identify more with everyone. I think she was just trying to say, stop celebrating our differences. We are all people and regardless of what our exterior appearance is, we are more similar than different. We are all people and everyone deserves respect. How that can be considered shocking or controversial I don’t know.
I don’t even claim “black.” People are not black or white, they are various shades of beige and brown. So in my house, we are brown. I agree with those about the “othering” of African Americans with that label. I’m glad Raven has rejected it in such a spectacular fashion.
Nobody else has a right to dictate to you how you should imagine yourself, what you should call yourself, or how you should understand your place in any society. If you want to let them do that, great, that’s your choice. Leave me alone to decide for myself.
I saw a show on the History channel that discussed race and it said both Heather Locklear and Reese Witherspoon are descended from African American Southern slave heritage. Slaves who bore children with White owners and eventually passed into white society.
The problem with our American labels are that they are not really completely true, of the current population.
Americans are a blended racial society, even those we assume to be all one thing or the other,are not if we dig deep enough in our historical roots
Reese is an American citizen standing on American soil.
LLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLL
🙂
Yes, she is American, no one said she wasn’t. Her slave ancestors were also on American soil in the south.
The show just revealed her and heather Locklear’s familial lineage going back to their Southern familial heritage. They both had slave ancestors who bore children and crossed over into white American life.
I also hate the lables for race. My husband and I are both mixes of white and asian im half Chinese hes half fillipino, but I look mostly white because I have light blue eyes and he doesn’t look mixed at all. I dont identify as white at all because I was not raised in America, he has lived in Arizona his whole life, served in the Marines and has no Asian identity.
Why cant we be what we feel? Identify with how and where we were raised? I can understand how she doesn’t identify with something 7 or 8 generations removed.
Im a Chinese American because I became a citizen after I got married. My kids are American because they were born and will be raised in America. Its that easy.
I don’t think so for some groups—especially for groups who have been historically denied the rights & privileges of citizenship for extended periods of time. It’s not that simple. It’s about the psychological as well as the political.
Since she’s talking about herself and no one else, how about we butt out? No one got up in arms when she didn’t want to identify as a lesbian. Oprah, you’re giving Lindsay the crackhead another season. That’s what’s shocking everyone on the planet.
Since she’s talking about herself and no one else, how about we butt out?
Exactly. I enjoyed the reading the discussions taking place but Raven is speaking for herself and no one else.
She needs to go on that show where they figure out peoples’ heritage, cuz this girl sounds mighty confused.
If you’re from Louisianna and you are not white… YOU ROOTS ARE AFRICAN! She needs to learn about her family’s history and embrace it. She could probably find some incredible stories about her family’s journey.
What are you talking about she never said she was white she said she American. If you listened to her she was saying she mixed with white, black, Asien and so on so she identifieds with all those races.
Totally with Raven on this one. What an articulate person she is.
Here’s the deal IMO:
She gets to determine for herself what she is. If she says she’s an American–she’s an American.
If she said she was AFRICAN American–then that is what she is.
You don’t get to tell other people what they are.
That is all.
Why is this an outrage? We call a white American an “American” not a “European American”.