Prince William’s press office is in shambles because he ‘does not take advice’

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Slowly but surely, “sources” have been leaking interesting details about the inner workings of Kensington Palace/Clarence House, meaning Duchess Kate and Prince William’s people and how those people interact with Prince Charles’ people, and how good all of these people really are at their jobs. My take has always been that Charles actually learned a lot about the press machine when he was with Diana – you could call it trial by fire, because anyone engaging in a press battle with Diana always lost, because she had an otherworldly gift for media management. But Charles took what he learned and he put it into somewhat good use, like getting the public used to Camilla and at this point, getting the public to gradually accept the idea of a Queen Camilla.

But what about William and Kate? The problem, I’ve always felt, is that William thinks he has his mother’s gift for PR and he just doesn’t. So much of what William and Kate try to do in the press is often blatant propaganda spin and/or lies. No nuance, no give and take, no sticking to an accessible press narrative. I think William is a temperamental man and he doesn’t understand why the press won’t just do as their told, and so he yells and throws tantrums about it. So, guess what? As it turns out, NO ONE wants to be in charge of Will and Kate’s press office.

Polishing the images of the popular Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry should be one of the plum jobs in PR. But I hear their appointment of a new communications secretary has proved such a fraught process that they have drafted in a highly paid firm of headhunters. Former BBC producer Ed Perkins quit Kensington Palace more than seven weeks ago, after only two years as their press secretary, and Prince William, Kate and Harry have still not found a suitable candidate to succeed him.

‘It’s a nightmare,’ claims a senior courtier. ‘Prince William does not take advice readily — let’s put it like that. Several well-qualified candidates have been ruled out.’

William has a reputation for being strong-willed, but a Kensington Palace spokesman denies suggestions that the Prince has made clear he does not want anyone who has worked at Buckingham Palace or Prince Charles’s office at Clarence House.

‘The recruitment process is ongoing,’ says the spokesman. ‘It has been straightforward and we are close to an appointment being made.’

Plans were announced in January for a unified media operation based at Buckingham Palace for all members of the Royal Family, but they have been shelved amid some tensions. Prince Charles’s staff have returned to Clarence House while William, Kate and Harry have their own office at Kensington Palace. The plans are said to have caused friction between Buckingham Palace press chief Sally Osman, and Kristina Kyriacou, Prince Charles’s outgoing communications secretary. Kyriacou, a straight-talking former PR for pop singers such as Take That star Gary Barlow and Bjork, favoured a more dynamic, modern approach to promoting the heir to the throne, but she is said to have come up against resistance from traditionalists.

Perkins, who has left to join the PR firm Portland, succeeded Miguel Head after he was promoted to the role of William, Kate and Harry’s private secretary. Head was at the hospital when Kate gave birth to Prince George and is said to act more like a friend of William than an employee.

[From The Daily Mail]

So, everything is in shambles, it sounds like. The Queen tried to ease Charles into some kind of power position and it sounds like her staffers at BP were in open revolt. It also sounds like Charles’ people weren’t up for the more difficult task of actually firing some of the “old guard” men in grey who have been there much too long. As for William and Kate’s press office… “Prince William does not take advice readily — let’s put it like that.” WOW. Let’s put it like this: William thinks he’s a genius and everyone should just do what he says and then when it all blows up in his face, he yells and blames everyone for doing what he said.

Oh, and as for William and Kate’s NYC trip December 7-9… they will attend their first basketball game! They will watch a game between the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Brooklyn Nets. The game is in Brooklyn, and Page Six says it will be the second time ever that a member of the royal family has visited Brooklyn. Princess Diana was the first to go to Brooklyn (before it was COOL TO GO BROOKLYN), back in 1989. I want to see Will and Kate rock some hipster style for their jaunt to Brooklyn. Kate can break out her skinny jeans, maybe an “ironic” flannel and trucker’s hat and some horn-rimmed glasses. William should grow some ironic facial hair. Maybe a soul patch. Last thing: Prince George will not be coming on this trip. Probably because he would have punched Mayor de Blasio in the face.

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Photos courtesy of WENN.

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124 Responses to “Prince William’s press office is in shambles because he ‘does not take advice’”

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  1. Loopy says:

    Wow if he really is that hot tempered and tantrum prone, he hides it well. He always seems so chilled, not that i expect him to have a hissy fit in public but if you told me Harry was the same I would believe that a lot quicker.

    • notasugarhere says:

      The narrative that has been spun in the past few years to make people believe the fairy tale is interesting. To those who have been around awhile, none of this is news. Charles and Diana both admitted that Harry was the easier and easier-going kid. William had many ‘hissy fits’ caught on camera as a kid, far more than Harry.

      Stories have been emerging, slowly but surely, of what has been covered up about William since he was a teen. Entitled behavior, reckless driving, partying. In a public interview William admitted that William is wilder and more of a partier than Harry and always has been.

    • FLORC says:

      Loopy
      It’s not really hidden that well. There’s just a lot more pro William stories out there to hide those instances. And the very opposite for Harry. His good deeds aren’t covered like Williams while Harry’s mistakes get brought up like new news for years. Moreso if William is caught doing something not great. Remember hunting with Jecca instead of being with his son and wife? That’s when the Harry hunting photos from years prior resurfaced.

      If behavior stayed the same and roles were reversed William would be painted as some sort of devil’s spawn.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •Florc•

        I think hidden is a great word. I do. Try googling or going directly to the DM to try and find the stories about William almost losing his wings due to a lack of hours. They were published in July-Sept 2012, with a follow-up article in Jan 2013. I couldn’t find them after hours of searching. Hours •Florc•, hours. And I knew when and where they were published and I still came up with nothing. They might be found but they are buried or removed — if that’s not hidden — what is?

      • FLORC says:

        LadySlippers
        I remember those. And he was given such special care. There’s no other way to say it. He did not prioritize his duty over his downtime. If that was anyone else they would have lost their wings time and time again.

        I will say there’s much to be said for the massive white washing. Articles we talk about here and provide links to a year or 2 ago now don’t work. If you can find the articles they’re well buried. Even Google loads the 1st few pages with pro results.
        In that way it’s hidden.
        I think I meant to make my point to say as William does this it comes out in real time reporting via twitter. Published articles coverig the same topic have time to rewrite the events for a spin.
        There’s no hiding what he does now in that way. Does that make sense?
        We all remember the articles and how the events came, but articles covering that information are tough to seek.

      • India Andrews says:

        I remember some mention of losing his wings if William didn’t put more time in the cockpit as a paragraph attached to a different story about William. I remember thinking that’s interesting, why is it attached to this story. I used to read a Tumblr called Princess Diana’s Place that was written by a Scottish lady who really noticed how William would put down Harry in public and how William’s stories would overshadow Harry’s, Her Tumblr still is up even though she stopped writing after Scotland decided to remain a part of the UK.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •India Andrews•

        Just to be fair, William has LONG been the brunt of Harry’s jokes too. They both do it.

  2. Hey, hey, my, my says:

    I think he is bothered he can’t go hunting exotical animals with his ex-girlfriend/mistress because the peasants expect him “to work”.

    • bettyrose says:

      Accusing him of killing exotic animals and having a mistress in the same sentence just makes it sound like he’s an run-of-the-mill entitled aristo. When, in fact, he’s an entitled royal. ;)

  3. Mindy says:

    I would have paid good money to watch little Prince George punch De Blasio in the face…

  4. Talie says:

    Yeah, his mother was far more giving than he will ever be. When he talks to the media, he looks pained. He just seems like he can’t wrap his head around anyone needing to know anything — even though he lives off tax dollars, primarily.

    • Nuzzybear says:

      If the media had killed Diana’s mom, I’m guessing she would have been a little less giving and a little more pained when speaking with them.

      • Penny says:

        The media isn’t what killed her- what killed her was getting in a car with a drunk driver and not wearing her seatbelt.

      • BoredAndExtremelyDangerous says:

        Thank you, Penny. Sure, some media people might have given chase, but essentially, that’s exactly what happened: a drunk and speeding driver, and a passenger not wearing her seat belt. It happens to ordinary people, too.

      • India Andrews says:

        And driving 100 miles per hour through a city.

        My uncle used to live in London and had a lot of upper classed friends around the time Diana was estranged and divorcing Charles. The rumor was she did that sort of racing around town thing often. Paris wasn’t the first instance.

      • India Andrews says:

        Sometimes I wonder what would happen to someone if they told William the truth about why his mother died. It wasn’t the media, it was a common car accident caused by drink, speeding and physics coming to bear on a woman without a seatbelt and a car hitting a stationary object. I wonder what would happen to the person who says that to William.

      • Kate-the-Great says:

        India, I’m sure William knows all that, I’m guessing both boys were informed about the findings and both boys were aware of all the theories and guessing surrounding the death of their mother. However, it is much easier for William to blame the press because he already disliked them way before Diana’s death, he was pouting already then, just remember the pictures of the three of them on holiday at some island, if looks could kill… William is blaming the press just as an excuse to get them off his back, for them to leave him alone to do what he pleases – which he does do because the paps know they could be prosecuted for reporting on him. He’s got them where he wants them.

    • Pippa Mids says:

      PR in shambles or dismantled – one in the same.
      Honesty, duty to HM and the people would go a long way.

      As to Di visits to Brooklyn – that part of NY turn out quality sons and daughters – the likes of – Joan Rivers, Babs Stresand, Stephanie Mills, Chris Rock Tcomedian) , etc.

      I agree Willnot is no Di P’essoW and forget common workshy Doolittle. Speaking of regular – ‘just like us’. LAdy Di was that and then some – humble, honest, hardworking, and the people princess- qualities King Henry possess – wuillnor all about himself..

      Wills unregal, PR video from what seem like the wall space background was so onsincere and unregal from a royal rep for HM GB. The same with doolittle next door event at KP, waity seem bored and very little effort by both – . Vacation plans already in place for taxpayers funding.

      W*W look no further than Lady Di Spencer as nanny, while dating POW, inspite of schooling with royals and fellow aristos at exclusive Swiss boarding school.

  5. Ruckhappy says:

    I don’t remember Princess Di coming to Brooklyn when I was living there, but I doubt she made it out to Flatbush.

    Prospect Park is a much nicer park for kids than Central Park, so if they need to let Georgie frolic….

  6. Jaded says:

    it appears that the over-protectiveness that was demanded for Wills and Harry by the palace after Diana’s death has back-fired, at least for William. Even though the hands-off behaviour of the press ended when he graduated, he seems to have got it in his head that he doesn’t have to play nice with the media/P.R. machines and just does what he bloody well wants and everyone can b*gger off if they don’t like it. He really is fast becoming one of the most disliked royals and, by extension, so is his lazy doormat of a wife.

    • HappyMom says:

      I think a big part of the problem is that he irrationally blames the press for his mother’s death and just can’t get past that.

      • Jaded says:

        For sure – it was actually Dodi who created the disaster. He demanded that they leave the Ritz for his apartment by which time Diana was so frustrated with him she was crying and didn’t want to go, and then he egged Henri Paul to drive faster and faster despite him being over the limit alcohol-wise. Henri Paul wasn’t even supposed to be the driver that night, hence the drinks, but Dodi insisted he drive. So at the end of the day, it was Diana’s unfortunate choice of boyfriend who brought about their demise.

      • HappyMom says:

        @Jaded-and not wearing her seatbelt.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •HappyMom•

        The fact that Diana didn’t have her seat belt on was proof to Ken Wharfe that she was just THAT rattled by the whole evening’s series of events. It was a disaster from the word ‘go’.

      • mayamae says:

        @LadySlippers, do you mean that Wharfe claims she typically wore her seatbelt?

      • LadySlippers says:

        •mayamae•

        Diana was a fanatic about wearing her seatbelt. She would chide her RPO’s when they weren’t buckled up and was super diligent about the boys buckling up too. Wharfe was stunned that she didn’t have hers on that night as it was VERY out of character for her. Very.

      • GildedCage says:

        Silly people. Her seat belt was jammed that night.

  7. Dena says:

    From the movie The Madness of King George:

    Dr. Willis: I have You in my eye, sir. And I shall KEEP You in my eye until You learn to behave and do as You’re told.
    George III: I am the King. I tell, I am not TOLD. I am the VERB, sir, not the OBJECT.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      I love that movie! Nigel Hawthorne was magnificent in in the role of George III, both as a bull-headed monarch with silly speech patterns but also as the wretched sick man in pain.

  8. L says:

    To me this sounds less like William being difficult but rather a power struggle between the different press offices. Buckingham Palace vs. Prince Charles’s office at Clarence House. “He doesn’t listen to advice” sounds like one of the old guard saying he doesn’t listen to OUR advice, but instead goes with the advice from the other office. From the way I read the article, the senior sources are using William as the fall guy.

    Hence why I think William, Kate, and Harry all want someone unaffiliated with either team. A outsider to be at Kensington that won’t have a agenda with one side or the other.

    • notasugarhere says:

      William has always had this attitude towards the press, since he was a toddler. As has been written before, the press office staff are just desperately trying to find a positive spin for anything W&K are doing. How is William the “fall guy” when he openly lies to the paraolympians and sneaks off on vacation? It is W&K’s actions that are the problem, not the low-paid staff who are trying to convince the public W&K aren’t spoiled beyond redemption.

      Trick is, Harry PR image doesn’t need polishing. No matter how much the media tries to build up the heir and damage the spare, it isn’t working. It is W&K who need the spin doctor, not Harry.

      • The Original Mia says:

        William is playing a dangerous game. These stories are coming out and that’s because the press are tired of him and his high-handed ways. They won’t feel the need to protect the heir if the heir won’t work with them. Then, when he does, he only wants a specific story told. Yeah, that doesn’t work when royal sources are being scooped by average Joes on twitter and IG.

      • FLORC says:

        Original Mia
        That’s the key piece here. To act 1 way and have your pr try to sell another image of you is tough in this age of instant reporting. This works against William and for Harry.
        William needs to at the very least do more good. Otherwise there’s nothing to counter the reports he’s not where he’s said to be. To lessen the blow of bad news with good reporting.
        He needs to give something besides threats and press bands.

      • India Andrews says:

        Kate Middleton Report a blogger figured out Kate turned down her recent Art Room appearance for shopping and then a quick jaunt up to Scotland to Balmoral. Some people on Twitter (as usual) saw her out shopping and then, it was reported in the Daily Fail and elsewhere that Kate and William went on another “babymoon” in Balmoral.

      • FLORC says:

        India
        This was covered here. There were unconfirmed reports they flew to scotland and it was picked up from there. Nota here pieced it all together rather quickly.

        And there were Twitter reported spottings of Kate shopping all throughout her too sick to work days. It was tough though. Many shots supporting this showed a thin brunette dressed in tight black clothes surrounded by tall men. Assumed RPO’s.
        Tweeters only had distance and shaky shots with a general agreement by fellow shoppers it was indeed her.

    • LAK says:

      L: What surprises me is that they are laying it on the line in stark terms because William’s pig headedness has been a problem since he was a child, but he has been protected and different words used to take the sting out of the correct word to describe him. Even now, ‘strong willed’ is a nicer way to describe a person who is being starkly described as a ‘nightmare’.

      And one can’t say William is being badly advised since Harry has been receiving same or similar advise and he has had a spectacular Year since the press offices merged. And the press have begrudgingly started to write positive articles about Harry only in the past 18mths due to the public response to him.

      It’s easy to blame Charles for a lot of things because his negative qualities and his difficulties have been so public, but honestly, courtiers within reason carry out the wishes of their charges and for the most part look out for the good of the Monarchy.

      They would not willingly put it into the public arena how difficult their charge was unless there *was* difficulty ie too much! or there is an agenda at play.

      We shall see in the long term which of the 2 things applies to William, but let’s also remember that William’s handling of his own public image has been either complete suppression of information via press bans and legal threats or tone deaf when he engages.

      I’ve often felt that William’s reliance on the institutional ‘golden Child’ PR has been a disservice to him because he really thinks he knows best rather than he’s been protected. I feel that was the painful lesson Charles had to learn when Diana came on the scene. And I feel the same dynamic is playing out with William and Harry where William ‘the Golden Child’ is seeing the also ran (Harry/Diana) outstrip him.

      • notasugarhere says:

        LAK, that was brilliant.

      • The Original Mia says:

        Well said, LAK!

      • Sixer says:

        LAK, I couldn’t have said it better.

      • Elizabeth R says:

        @LAK – I was hoping you’d weigh in on this; I always look forward to your insights on these threads.

        I’m curious which of the two reasons you think is more likely driving this into the public sphere , i.e, there is an agenda at play, or there is *too much* difficulty in managing William / William’s PR. As you said, time will tell, but really interested in knowing which you personally think is more likely the case.

      • FLORC says:

        LAK
        As usual very well stated.

        And loving those positive Harry articles. He’s doing great work.

      • LAK says:

        Elizabeth R: at this moment in time i’m leaning towards an agenda fuelling this public laundering of William’s bad habits.

        And as the ‘bad William’ image overtakes the ‘golden child’ image, the agenda will become clear OR with time the reason for the agenda will disappear and they’ll pull it all back and whitewash it back to the ‘golden child’.

      • Elizabeth R says:

        Returning late to the conversation so you may not see this, but @LAK: Thanks for the reply! I appreciate your perspective, and that theory makes the most sense to me. It will be interesting to watch how this develops, for sure. ;)

    • Sharon Lea says:

      L – I agree, there is something to be said that William does not want anyone that has worked at BP or Clarence House. Diana didn’t trust them and with good reason.

      I wonder what they have been trying to ask of him, was it to do more or do less, try to be less popular (to not upstage Charles & Camilla)? Maybe its all the stuff we’ve been discussing on this board, his gap year, the lack of engagements compared to Diana & Charles at their age.

      Really wish Ed Perkins would write a book like Dickie Arbiter, but I’m sure he’s signed a non-disclosure.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Are you suggesting that W&K are fighting to work harder and do loads more engagements and Charles and the courtiers are preventing them? LMFAO.

        Charles needs W&K to be popular. Period. Charles and the courtiers are not holding them back to make Charles more popular. Proof: Harry.

      • FLORC says:

        He does need that Nota. If he’s going to slim down the working royals to the core group of his family and have W&K still be seen as slackers of sorts it isn’t helping him. If Charles could or wanted to there’s no way he’d scale back W/K’s appearances. They need to be seen as contributors and not wasted expense.

        This really all falls on William. If he’s not working, if Kate’s not working that is because they choose to not work.

        I wonder. If things get really bad and Charles needs them to be seen as workers would he push them to do so or remain hands off working a pr angle?

      • MinnFinn says:

        ‘Publish photos of George more frequently’ – is advice I’m sure William gets and refuses.

      • FLORC says:

        MinnFinn
        George and what the public sees is a huge issue that William is not handling well.
        George will never be out of the public eye fully. It’s better to have full control like Estelle’s social media pics. It’s controlled and will not only create goodwill, but also help to introduce George to his life as a royal in a gentle way.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •Sharon Lea•

        The problem with your example is Diana’s situation post separation/post divorce couldn’t be more different than William’s. Diana was only a spouse of a direct heir whereas William IS a direct heir. Direct heirs and heiresses are treated WAY differently than any other Royal. Direct heirs/heiresses are the lifeblood and future of the monarchy — people in the various press offices want to promote them as that’s job security. No monarchy — no palace staff or press office staff. Anywhere. No BP, no CH, no KP, no SJP.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      Well, he has said in an interview that he listens to the courtiers and then does the opposite!

    • Bellpepper says:

      Yup, hard to believe but it’s true. This is why Harry’s partying is constantly being fueled to take away focus from William. He and Kate were not highly regarded in St. Andrews because of their smugness, too much partying, and arrogant behaviors. Their laziness is starting to be noticed by the public, a testament of their sense of entitlement . They don’t care about their royal duties but just after the perks of their status. They seem nice but things are not always what they seem to be. Princess Diana once said that Harry will be a good king.

    • LadySlippers says:

      •L•

      As a direct heir, William gets far more leeway than other Royals (true of Charles as well). So if this were a power struggle between different PR offices, why is it that people that have no connection to any other Royal Household are still calling William ‘difficult to work with’? In fact, Ken Wharfe described William as ‘petulant and stubborn’ when dealing with the press in his memoir about working with Diana. And William was a child and a pre-teen during the time Ken was around the Waleses.

      Sorry, so while I don’t 100% agree (it’s more like 95% agree with) with •LAK• or •notasugarhere• they are closer to the truth than most. This IS a core issue (as they have said) with William and not the people he works with.

      William, at about 7-8ish began his life-long hatred of the press. I don’t think it has anything else to do with it then (and now) other than, he finds the press parasites that feed off others, and he wants nothing to do with it. William wants to be left in peace and not bothered by the press. I honestly think he wants that elusive ‘normal life’ that most of his friends have.

      Check out Ken Wharfe’s book and you’ll see his present attitude has not changed much since William became really aware of the press. Diana’s death only solidified those feelings, as did the relentless press attention that was now directed at both himself and his brother. So his ‘protectiveness’ towards his family is totally understandable but his execution is lacking. William, more than anyone, needs to have someone channel his feelings in a productive manner rather than a destructive manner than he currently employs.

      • wolfpup says:

        The sad thing about the perceived laziness of Will & Kate, is that their usefulness to Great Britain as ambassadors is diminishing. I do not look forward to their appearance in the states, because they are so annoyingly self-centered and entitled. People do not admire others who behave in this way, and will tire of them soon enough, if they haven’t already. As members of the royal family, their “job” should be considered an honor, to represent Britain and it’s Commonwealth to the world; which seems to be something that they care little about. This is just another holiday, with a few meetings set up for William that could just as easily be carried out elsewhere (e.g. Jecca’s wildlife fund). Perhaps they’ll grow out this attitude, but it may be hard for them to recapture the global goodwill that was initially extended to them, when they married. They are idiots, short and simple.

      • Jaded says:

        Well said LadySlippers. One can see the roots of William’s disdain of the press from an early age, but after his mother’s death and the ensuing veil of “no press allowed” at a formative age, he got used to being special, unapproachable and having pretty much the freedom to live a fairly normal life. He should have been getting some coaching on how to deal with his higher profile once the protection was over after graduation. It’s unfortunate, and in a way I understand why he’s the grumpy, selfish and conflicted person he is, but he’s a grown-up now, he occupies a very important position in the BRF but doesn’t seem to either understand or respect the fact that as a royal, he has a JOB to do for the Firm, not just for himself, as does his wife. He can’t create his own isolated little fiefdom from which he does the occasional appearance, and clearly feels he’s stooping to complete the minimum of public work amongst the peons. It will be interesting to see how this situation evolves over the years, especially when the Queen finally passes.

      • anne_000 says:

        I can see why William wants “to be left in peace and not bothered by the press.”

        I think he wants to go back to the ‘good ol’ days’ when Royals would spend their lives just pleasing themselves and not forced to do constant charity work and be very public about it in order to justify their privileged life and status. I’m thinking Edwardian and before that when the Royals didn’t need to count their hours per annum of ‘working.’ Just a life of parties, yachts, hunting trips, visiting & staying with other rich folk, safaris in Africa and India, etc. and showing up in public to ‘work’ only if it was fun for them. When ‘Royal duties’ meant mostly ceremonial involvement and not forced charity work.

        William no doubt would find the press “parasites” if he’s worried about their criticizing him for his shortcomings. I think that’s why his PR team keeps pushing out the bull crap that he & Kate are such “keen” workers. It’s to keep ahead of any press story that might come out of what he’s actually doing, which is playing more than working.

        I think his “protectiveness” is more CYA than worry over his family, because imo his family doesn’t need protecting. Charles & Harry are doing good in the press. Charles handles his own press and Harry’s charm, good looks, and good works make him a natural in the media. It’s just William and Kate who have the most liability in terms of press coverage.

        Anyhoo, jmho.

  9. HoustonGrl says:

    I’m not surprised. What life/people skills have Kate and William acquired, when everything they’ve ever needed or wanted has been handed to them? What skills would they have picked up, like how to manage people, address the press, and “deal” with the public? These two sheltered people know nothing of the workings of an office. Oh, and Charles is wiser since Diana, but he’s still a buffoon overall. The Columbia incident recently?

  10. misstee says:

    Lets get something straight because with respect you arnt British and don’t live here…

    ‘getting the public to gradually accept the idea of a Queen Camilla. ‘

    Never going to happen!

    • Sixer says:

      Says you.

      I’m British and I couldn’t care less what title Camilla takes when Charles succeeds. I don’t know anyone who does, either. Although I know plenty of people who disagree with me that we should be rid of the whole monarchy altogether.

  11. Jaana says:

    He seems really conceited and I notice some ways in which he speaks to Kate. “STAND BACK!” or “Go ” ! He thinks he knows it all and he really doesnt.

    • may23 says:

      When was that? I’ve never heard him talking to her like that?

    • FLORC says:

      I remember a ffew of these times, but not recently. Kate seemed very unsure on what to do so William would direct her. At times he also seemed frustrated that he had to do that. In this sense I blame him a lot for not teaching Kate the ropes. She trotted out, dressed up and smiling. And William would say something quickly and walk away from her. Kate left alone looking lost and seeking direction. A few of those times were caught on video. It’s quite easy to lip read “go” and “stand back” when his body language supported that as well as Kate’s reactions.

      • wolfpup says:

        In my mind, Kate isn’t charming, nor lovely as Diana, but I’ve sincerely felt for her (even while thinking that she is a little too giddy); but because of the nasty and high-handed ways in which William has treated her in public. I believe that she turns a blind eye, in many respects, but certainly she is not aware of the pain that lies ahead of living with a man so crippled.

        It’s a very bad bargain she has made in exchange for her families fortunes, and the perceived well-being of her own DNA. Money does not change the chemistry of happiness that exists amongst all peoples. Stuff only gets a person so far…

      • FLORC says:

        wolfpup
        Some people can make that trade off. They never have to worry about money. The trade off being your spouse does as they like and you make sure you’re ready and willing when they’re around. And that it’s understood there’s no public shaming of the other.
        To a certain extent I think Kate is at peace with this. She might get jealous when she knows William is with someone he’s emotionally attached to (Jecca), but otherwise understands. William will keep Kate as his wife and love her as he has been. In return finances and jobs are not things Kate needs to think about and her children/family is guaranteed success.

        Maybe she’ll find that isn’t enough. For now I bet she does.

    • anne_000 says:

      I can understand why William would have to instruct Kate from time to time. I wrote a long paragraph of why Kate needs such instructions, but deleted it because all of what I wrote is already well known and has been said repeatedly. In short, she’s not very bright.

      • may23 says:

        I don’t think someone who wasn’t brought up in the kind of environment Will
        grew up in, can instinctively know what to do and what not to. Her not knowing doesn’t make her “not very bright.”

      • LadySlippers says:

        •may23•

        Agreed.

        There is a lot of subtly that takes some time to get the hang of — same is true of being a military spouse. It’s not an overnight thang (although it is helpful to have a good teacher which I’m not sure William is).

      • FLORC says:

        may23
        Even Harry at 1 point on a video was seen asking William where to stand. A large part I would think comes from you doing research. Kate may have given the impresson she has reached all she cares to regarding academic learning or applying her education. At this point that she appears to have not understood her role or protocol that not very bright assessment can be applied. William being a poor teacher aside she’s had time to adjust and still falls short. At least we’re seeing more improvements that are really wonderful. Still, her mistakes are getting more revealing and frequent as well. 2 steps forward 2 steps back.

      • wolfpup says:

        I already despise William for hurting a woman, so setting my personal prejudices aside, it must s**k to be Kate. I know, without a doubt, that wealth means little; and is minuscule to our real feelings. Someone needs to love her unconditionally, because it looks as if her mother could be using her, and that the younger Kate was too unprepared (I mean how could you really see it with a cool eye?), to see what she has agreed to, in marrying a jerk, regardless of any high fluting, highborn, so-called last name!

        There are so many individuals telling her what to do, and what could be most advantageous, that one day all of the trying for everyone else, will not be enough for her. God save her heart.

      • notasugarhere says:

        (Entrapment thing with the fake sheik aside), Sophie has learned how to function at these events and in the BRF just fine. It doesn’t have to do with how you are raised or if you are middle class. It has to do with how hard you are willing to work to learn the family business. That’s where W&K fall down on the job. Members of the BRF have said you can only learn this job by doing it. By refusing to work harder, doing basically no prep, and not caring about what they’re doing – W&K are guaranteeing they’ll both fail.

    • Elizabeth R says:

      @LadySlippers – I concur; the intricacies of protocol, rhythm of interactions, sequence of events, etc at events are not second nature to those who haven’t grown up with them.
      As a military spouse myself, I think it’s a great analogy. (And God knows the closest I’ll ever come to having to master these types of things. ;)

      So, while Kate might not be very bright, I don’t think that her needing some direction in these situations is a case in point.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •Elizabeth R•

        I use the military analogy because royals are historically just extensions of the military. Hence the rules and protocol that baffle civilians until you draw a comparison to something they are a tad more familiar with (and sadly those numbers are diminishing as well).

        I actually don’t think either William or Kate are stupid — I think both are probably average in intelligence or possibly slightly above. However, as a former Navy spouse myself, most of the intricacies we are talking about are rather dry. I knew and know many women, even after years of being a military spouse, have no more idea of the rules/customs than the day they met their spouse.

      • Elizabeth R says:

        Yes, I’ve met a few women (and men) who are relatively oblivious to the intricacies of military subculture, despite having been long married into it. I appreciated your comparison especially because of its historical relevance – thanks for bringing that into the conversation!

        And just to clarify – I didn’t mean my last comment re: Kate’s intelligence as an argument for / against any particular level of intelligence – just that I wasn’t sure her needing direction in these situations was indicative of *low* intelligence.
        However, FLORC makes a great point about how after a certain period of time, failing to learn IS revealing – of either attitude, aptitude, intelligence, or…other.

        As an aside, I have to say I really appreciate how nice you all have been to a newcomer. As a long-time royal watcher, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed these discussions from the sidelines, & have only just started chiming in. Thanks for being so welcoming!

  12. Louise says:

    Prince Petulant.

  13. Dena says:

    Both of them (W/K) seem to pretty much be immature for their ages due to lack of life experience and swaddling by parents and/or circumstances. At 32, they act like 16 year olds. So if we go with the formula of actual age divided by 2 = developmental age & maturity then I’d say it’s a good thing that Windsors live well into old age and the heir apparent having to wait an extremely long time for the crown (give or take a few exceptions).

  14. Sarah says:

    Unfortunately Prince William becomes more and more unlikeable. He has definitely misjuded the public’s perspective of him. The more stories I hear like this, the more I actually feel sorry for Kate (I’d feel more if she hadn’t been so determined to get him at any cost!) As much as I believe she really wanted and fought for this role as William’s wife and probably considers she played a blinder in getting it – is William the man now that she thought he would become? Does she have any regrets? Probably not, I think her position in life was more important to her (her mother?) than her true happiness.

    • Bellpepper says:

      Well, she and her mom wanted the royal status badly. William treated her like a doormat but she clinged on with all her might until her mom had that talk with William. William was easily swayed because her family schemed on giving him that “warm” family feeling which he lost after Princess Diana. If she was still alive Will won’t be manipulated like this. Mark my word, the Middletons are going to milk this connection, it will not be always be published but they have already gone a long way. Why is Pippa and James suddenly being featured in the US media lately? Just a matter of time, wait when Will becomes king, all Middletons will have titles and of course the royal perks. I would not want a gullible and damaged king.

      • Olenna says:

        @Bellpepper, your comment “Why is Pippa and James suddenly being featured in the US media lately?” I’ve asked myself the same question. Somehow, I don’t believe it’s just a coincidence that that within a matter of days, all three, along with their visits to NYC, are being talked about in the US national and local news media. One thing is for sure: this family sure loves the limelight.

      • Helen says:

        Actually I think that Pippa and James and the Middletons are behaving unwisely. They are setting people’s backs up by their ‘opportunistic’ behaviour rather than blending into the background in a dignified manner. Their behaviour is not helping their cause of bringing Kate to the throne. If people dislike her family this may never happen.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        Olenna,
        I do think that the way her family is so obviously milking their royal connection is to some extent hurting her and her husband PR-wise. That is a danger when royaly marry someone “local” as we have seen from history, i.e. the Wydewilles, the Boleyns and the Seymours. Granted that was a very long time ago but that doesn’t necessarily mean that issue isn’t relevant today, just that is takes different forms. I believe that was the reasopn That Queen Margrethe II specifically advised her sons to find their spouses abroad. Of course the heart wants what the heart wants but I do think that it is a good policy. The dangers already mentioned certainly played out in a smaller scale with the Danish girlfriends of her sons, especially the ones that the Crown Prince dated. At least one played the game with the tabloids for her own benefit and others already were in the public eye due to their careers in the entertainment industry. While it was not expressed directly, there was an undercurrent in public opinion that these women were not deemed suitable as a possible future Queen Consort.

        In this respect I really think that her own family is hurting Kate’s position as a future Queen Consort because they so obviously seek to cash in on their royal connection. While it certainly isn’t fair to expect them to give up their careers I do think that they might go about it in a different way. It would also help if her family doesn’t accept freebies or use public officials to park their cars, not give them tickets, etc. In order not to hurt their daughter and sister’s image and position they need to conduct themselves with the utmost propriety in matters like these, which they don’t.

    • may23 says:

      I wonder about that myself only from a slightly different perspective – I think Kate is genuinely in love with Will.

      • GildedCage says:

        She’s in love with the “prince” not the man.. If he didn’t have his title, she wouldn’t have him.

    • Olenna says:

      @ArtHistorian and Helen, ITA that they are conducting themselves as unmitigated opportunists . Both have gone about furthering their ambitions and building public profiles with no subtlety, no finesse, and certainly no shame (using charity events as PR props is, IMO, pretty crass). That Kate and William see nothing wrong with their behavior is perhaps a message to all of us that only one perception of the monarchy and it’s image is important and that’s theirs, not the public’s.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        If that is so then they might get a rude awakening someday because in reality it is the public’s perception of the monarchy that is important – in a constitutional monarchy like Britain that is.

  15. embertine says:

    Well, bear in mind that his father successfully lobbied and threatened the Secretary of Health to include homeopathy and other transparent charlatanry in the NHS, so William has probably learned from example that if he throws enough childish tantrums and uses his privilege to bully people, he will get whatever he wants.

    VIVE LA REVOLUTION!!!

    • EM says:

      Homeopathy is not ‘transparent charlatanry’ its a tried and true alternative therapy that has been around for a very long time . As a registered pharmacist who deals with the charlatanry of big medical companies every day , I can attest to its many benefits, on adults , children and animals. it is not the be all and end all but it is a valuable tool for everyday ailments, non toxic, side effect free and relatively inexpensive. It is the constant put downs by the billion dollar drug companies that will do anything to kill their competition or discredit anything that challenges their allopathic medical view that results in ignorant remarks such as this.

      No doubt you are one of those who also sees acupuncture, reflexology, aromatherapy and salt therapy as bogus and would rather get a prescription for a drug that just masks the symptoms rather than put a bit of effort and time into working on your own cure. Bruises, sinus problems, sprains, cramps, headaches, neuralgia, shingle pain, carpel tunnel pain and indigestion are just a few every day problems that can be dealt with very simply using homeopathic remedies. Of course it will not cure cancer or set a broken bone but neither will a main stream drug.

  16. Dany says:

    A public person who doesn´t take advice is an idiot. Image is important when you have a public role. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. So taking advise from professionel PR people is smart. Sadly William is too arrogant, he doesn´t understand that the old “Diana´s son goodwill” won´t be there forever. William is now a grown man, but does only the minimum. His biggest achievement in life is being Diana´s son. But Diana is gone for almost 2 decades and the newer generations have no real connection with her. He isn´t the young pretty golden Prince anymore and he lacks charisma. People won´t overlook his attitude longer.

  17. Reece says:

    Anybody who chooses not to be blinded by the fancy knows all of this. Once you start really looking you see all the cracks in his/their facade. It’s just annoying that Harry gets lumped in with them because he does very well on his own but oh well his choice.

    Who is taking bets on JayZ and Beyonce being at the Nets game that night? They get to hang out with (fur wearers aka contradiction to his supposed ideals???) celebrities!

    No George, then not interested.

  18. bettyrose says:

    Who is the major hottie that Kate’s talking to in the seconf pic??

    • FLORC says:

      Harry Styles? Oh BettyRose, no. Or Simon Cowell? Yeesh!

      • Bucky says:

        Hahaha, Harry is better than Simon! At 30, I’m an old lady to the boy-banders, and I couldn’t tell you anything OneD sings, but I think Harry is cute as a button (and teeny tiny, he looks so wee!).

      • bettyrose says:

        Is that who Harry Styles is? Sorry, I didn’t know. He’s lovely. :-)

      • FLORC says:

        BettyRose
        Harry Styles is Taylor Swifts ex bf from 1 (one?) direction. He’s the only 1 I know from that group and that’s only because of this site.

        Harry was the ex who broke ties with Swifty and she would show up at his tour stops, right?

      • Orly says:

        Harry & Taylor had a brief PR fling. H is a gay man who’s more or less in a glass closet these days. That’s why Taylor has reset her PR recently re: selling the songs she wrote about their fauxmance. At first, she was piling on the Harry hints in interviews, now she’s withdrawing from that since H has started creeping out of the closet.

    • MinnFinn says:

      yep

    • bettyrose says:

      After seeing a different picture of him on another thread, I’d like to withdraw my earlier comment. He’s sweet looking but by no means a major hottie. I think it was the contrast of seeing her with a smiling, stylish young man rather than the drab crypt keeper she’s usually photographed with that got me.

  19. Hautie says:

    I have mention this many times…. but this family of Royals… they are there as the ultimate tourist attraction for the UK. And there is not enough money in the world to convince me, that it is a luxury to be a Royal.

    Not when every day there is a half dozen bullsh*t articles tearing me and my love ones apart. For entertainment only. To sell newspapers. Telling the truth has never been big on the agenda, with the UK press. Now has it.

    You live everyday knowing that there is no end in site with these media hacks. To add to your daily grind, you have a entire office full of people telling you the same thing.

    YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN ENOUGH!

    You have not “earned your keep” because you are tired of playing some dumb ass media game. And refuse to continue with the crazy. There are lots of people that live for this stuff. Half of Hollywood would kill for this kind of attention.

    So as a obvious minority here…. I understand why William wants to skip out on this whole spectacle of crazy.

    None of it is real. It is all manufacturer for the media. So what if he wants go back to the country and work at a daily job. Hang out with the wife and kids. I don’t blame him. His own Father hated all of this too, until the last decade. But Charles as he enters his 70′s is finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So his mood has improved.

    This Royal family makes no decisions on how the country is ran. They are the PR faces for the tourist board. They are there to generated income for the country. By having their allege private life sold to the magazines.

    So I don’t begrudge them the income and all the perks. Because if I had knew from the very beginning, that my entire life had been decided for me. Simply because I was the first born. I might be a little pissed about it too. All William has heard from infancy is “what will the people think!!!” You must be this… you must be that… and you must follow all orders from the PR people.

    What would it take for you to give up all personal privacy?

    To find out that all your phone calls were hacked. That every time you sent an email it was intercepted? Which happen to William and Harry just in the last decade. And was done by the media. So those same newspapers and magazines could sell more prints. There is not enough money in the world to have all my privacy invaded for the amusement of others.

    So if William is a cranky ass, who is tired of it all. I do not blame him. I hope he decides to annoy the sh*t out of everyone…. as long as he lives. :)

    • The Original Mia says:

      There’s an easy remedy for William. Take himself and his kids out of the line of succession. Become a semi-private citizen like Peter Phillips.

      • Flower says:

        He actually can just take himself out of the line of succession, he has to wait until he is King before he can abdicate his right to rule. However there is a neat loophole he can slip through if he really, really wanted to opt out right now…….convert to Catholicism.

        Peter Phillps (12th) and his sister Zara (15th) are still in the line of succession, they just doesn’t have a title.

      • anne_000 says:

        Imo, because there’s still probably another 25 years until he becomes king, meaning he’ll be in his mid to late 50s, he’s not going to step down. He’s going to use and enjoy as many perks as possible, have his PR team keep telling the world what hard workers he and Kate are, and how deserving they are of all their down time.

    • LadySlippers says:

      •Hautie•

      Agreed. I *get* why William reacts the way he does because he’d like to decide his own future and can’t. I don’t envy him one iota.

      •Mia•

      It’s a common statement that William should ‘just remove himself’. However, it’s not that simple. In order to remove ANYONE from the BRF’s line of succession, a bill needs to be introduced and passed in the UK *and* all the Commonwealth countries. The recent bill to alter primogeniture has hit a snag and cannot be ratified for years because of that snag. Anyone other bill like it would have to go threw a similar lengthy process to get approved and become law. So it’s hardly an ‘easy’ legal solution. On top of which are the emotional and familial ramifications…

      Personally, I think the snag of the primogeniture bill should prompt a rewrite of the whole process. The primogeniture bill should be pulled and a very comprehensive overhaul of the succession process should be created (which includes absolute primogeniture and removal of self from line) so IF anyone wants to more easily bow out — they have a legal route to do so. And then resubmit total overhaul of the sucession to the UK and the Commonwealth countries in a way to avoid a repeat of the snag of the ‘old’ bill.

      • The Original Mia says:

        I know it’s not easy, but no one wants a grumpy sour puss who won’t work as heir to heir either. Start the process. Put the seeds out there so that when Charles ascends the throne, it will be easier to allow William to go on his merry way. Harry is already doing things that William should be doing and isn’t. When the time comes for him to take up the mantle of PoW, he will have to lean on his courtiers and his advisors to keep the status quo. What is he going to do then? He won’t listen to anyone now. Is he going to become like his uncle, David? Piss around until he becomes King to abdicate? Nah. Man up. Take a stand and move on for the good of not only the monarchy, but his family.

      • LAK says:

        The simplest solution is still available to him. He should covert to catholicism. As long as the bill isn’t yet signed into law, with all items agreed, including religion, he can still step out of line.

        Actually, since CoE is the crucial religion as far as the monarchical oath, he should convert to any religion from CoE. The loophole that exists for the other religions can be closed citing need for the monarch to be head of the CoE. That particular point is causing problems at the moment.

        Family would be upset, press would have a field day, but that shall pass especially if he pulls the mummy card which despite overuse still carries potency.

      • bettyrose says:

        He could move stateside. Leave the Commonwealth and get a paying job. There are ways around a parliamentary decree for someone who actually wanted to be a private citizen.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •Mia•

        Got it. Thanks for clarifying! 😊

        •LAK•

        I think the meltdown from all around keeps him ‘stuck’ (especially from Granny). I think it’s the *perception* of how everyone would react that paralyses him. That’s incredibly powerful too — the fear is mostly created and not real.

      • LAK says:

        Ladyslippers: I honestly don’t think it’s ever occurred to him to step aside, even IF he found the gumption and a cunning plan to do so.

        Stepping out of line requires effort and as Dame Snarkweek once pointed out, it appears that when effort is required, our dear William is the first to jump ship!

        He is far more likely to take the easy route and for him, no matter how much he loathes it, staying in the line is far easier.

      • Sixer says:

        I don’t think it’s occurred to him to step aside, either.

        The thing is, he *does* have an awful lot of freedom. The “Royal role” isn’t writ large in tablets of stone: all it requires is some aspect of public service. William could find any area – health, homelessness, sport, diplomacy, the arts, youth, the list is endless – and carve out any public service role within it that he chose. He could have just about *any* interest and create a suitable Royal role for it. And the British public would accept and support him in it.

        The only truth that I can see is that he really doesn’t have *any* interests other than the life of a spoiled rich boy. He has to be dragged kicking and screaming into duties that he doesn’t care for, not because they’re the required duties, but because he lacks any interests of his own for which he could develop duties that he actually enjoyed.

      • MinnFinn says:

        In my limited knowledge of how the BRF operates, it seems to me the Palace (I use the time broadly) is the the only entity responsible for and capable of enforcing all that must happen in order for Wm to have the relatively high degree of freedom, privacy and few press headaches he now enjoys.

        He’d quickly go broke just from security and media litigation bills if he were to cut ties with the BRF and try to live as a private citizen. I’d bet money that public and press interest would remain very high for the remainder of his life.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •LAK• •Sixer•

        Even if he HAD thought of it — who could he talk to without giving them the inevitable heart attack?!??? Very few in the BRF and certainly even fewer of the courtiers. Stepping away from the line is an idea fraught with terror for most people…. (needlessly too, it could be handled in a manner not to create panic or issues).

        And I think there are several avenues that William could succeed in. I think giving him the much desired feeling of control would calm him down — much as it did Diana.

      • LadySlippers says:

        •bettyrose•

        That wouldn’t matter as several peers or heirs of peers live away from the UK and still come into their title regardless.

        •MinnFinn•

        Therein lies the rub, doesn’t it? He might gain control of his life by stepping away but media fascination with him will likely never die. He’s weathly but probably not weathly enough to afford the kind of security he would require. Unless of course, he moved to Africa. One huge reason both William and Harry adore Africa is the anonymity it provides them — they are as close to ‘normal’ there that they’ve ever experienced.

    • inthekitchen says:

      IMO being a royal is the very definition of “luxury!” It is a luxury to never have to worry about paying the bills or to worry about money for food, shelter, healthcare, your children’s education, or any of the other normal worries that the average person deals with. And, honestly, they barely work. The queen takes months long vacations several times each year. They go out and “work” for a few hours a day (if that) – by showing up, smiling, cutting a ribbon, making a brief speech (sometimes), and being applauded and petted by everyone in the room. They take foreign trips where walking across a tarmac or “arriving back in the UK” counts as work…it’s really ridiculous.

      It IS a luxury to – literally – grow up in a palace and know that you (and your children, and probably grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grands, etc.) will have the best, most healthy food that can be grown or bought, will have the best education in the country (or any country, if they so choose…especially when they may not even be up to admittance standards!), and will have the best healthcare available. Let alone status and influence (even when you are – by law – supposed to be keeping your nose out of politics), all the clothes you’d ever need or wish for, jewels, etc. William even gets his pick of non-royal jobs…even when there wasn’t actually a job opening. I mean, come on! How can you say it’s not a luxury to be a royal?!

      In addition to all those comforts, you can choose – if you have enough gumption or character – to help innumerable people by speaking out on issues and doing charitable work. I mean, look at Harry lately – how much publicity has he brought to wounded veterans lately? Or Diana with landmines, or Bea with dyslexia.

      Finally, I think there are lots of other outlets that report that the royals are not as much of a tourist draw as they are purported to be. Especially when so much of their costs is shrouded in secrecy (why would they need to keep things so secret if they are such a good deal for the UK taxpayer?!). Plenty of tourists visit France and they no longer have royals. IMO, this argument doesn’t hold water.

      • FLORC says:

        I agree on tourism. They are more of a drain than a resource. And royals long gone leave castles open to larger tours and renting out sections for ceremonies.

        That there’s never a straight number on their actual costs is an issue also. It is too much whenever you have to figure a way to fudge the numbers before the public finds out.

  20. maddelina says:

    I agree with Hautie’s comment. I don’t see William as grumpy. I think both William and Kate do a great job and people love to see them. It’s pretty obvious in any pictures I’ve seen of them.

  21. DameEdna says:

    @LAK….Convert to Catholicism to remove himself from the line is succession?

    Even as an atheist, I find that incredibly offensive. This is a man who has been raised within the faith of the established Church of England, whose grandmother is designated as Defender of that same faith.

    Yes, people do change faith…..whether through marriage or a deeper need, unfulfilled. And yes, possibly even for expediency…….but to free himself from his duties? Sorry, but that’s just crass. Unless of course, he’s been having secret conversations with Kate Kent……..but I doubt it.

    • notasugarhere says:

      DameE, you’re assuming that William is a person who is deeply committed to his faith. For a man who is followed constantly, he’s never seen attending a weekly service. He is only seen at church during family pap walks for big events (Scottish referendum, Christmas sometimes). Charles has stated that he wants to be Defender of the Faiths (not just CoE).

      For William, converting to another religion may not mean anything to him if it gets him what he wants — out. He may not believe any more than you do and uses religion as another excuse. Kate Middleton was not confirmed in CoE until just before the wedding. She made a big play of wearing a cross necklace for awhile after that. If the CoE faith is so important to W&K, why didn’t she commit to CoE before age 30? Why don’t they attend church regularly?

    • LAK says:

      DameEdna: it is crass and i say that as an atheist too, but that is the current law of succession. And it achieves the necessary outcome in one easy step without resorting to paperwork, parliament, realms etc.

      The law of succession is very firm on the heirs to the throne being CoE or rather, NOT being catholic. Several members of the royal family have lost their place in the line of succession due to marrying catholics or coverting to catholicism eg Prince Micheal of Kent married a catholic who remains a catholic, several of the Duke of Kent’s children have converted to catholicism and lost their place in the line of succession.

      On the flip side, several people have given up their catholic faith so that their spouses can remain in the line of succession eg Camilla and Autumn Philips both of who converted to CoE in the months ahead of their weddings.

      The law of succession is the culmination of centuries of religious divisions between protestant and catholics pre-18th century where every successive Monarch would seek to impose their faith and more pertinently their attendant European allies of same faith on the English population. I’m simplifying of course because the history is very dense and includes huge cast of characters and events, but in the end, it boiled down to Catholic heirs and their allies vs protestant nee CoE and their allies and which of them would allow the English Kingdom to self govern in a way that was agreeable to the English.

      The Catholics lost and the act of succession 1701 was put into place. It specifically barred ALL catholic heirs from the line of succession forever and anyone who married a catholic automatically lost their place in the line. Terribly unfortunate for the House of Stuart because they were all determined catholics.

      However, this act brought the Hanovarians to England starting with George I. The current royal family are Hanovarians despite changing their name to Windsor. This is the source of all ‘but they are German!’ comments/jokes.

      The bill of Primogenature that is going through the various parliaments of the realms is seeking not just to remove the gender bias in the succession law, it’s also proposing to remove the religious bias, not just the catholic one.

      The religious bias is proving to be a sticking point because the Monarch is expected to be head of the Church of England. How can one have a head of CoE who is of a different faith? However, to continue with the religious bias contravenes human rights. They haven’t resolved this issue yet, so for now, whilst principals are agreed, they are not signed into law. They can not be signed into law until ALL 16 realms agree.

      And therein lies William’s escape hatch.

    • LadySlippers says:

      •DameEdna•

      It is crass. But I agree with •LAK• as it also provides William with way out — as non-PC and crass as it is. Then William could raise all his children as Catholics and be done with it — unless they backdate it and he’s back to square one.

      Bottom line is William (and anyone else) should have the freedom to choose whether to take up the ‘family business’ or go on another path. However, it’s not fair to him, his family, or fellow citizens for him to engage in the passive-aggressive tactics he uses because he is either unsure of what he wants or is afraid to honestly voice his opinion.

      • DameEdna says:

        @LAK ~ I do understand the history behind the law of succession……I am Scottish born and educated (tho now living in another Commonwealth country). All of that historical detail was drummed into me from an early age.

        I’ve read that the Duchess of Kent is referred to in some quarters as “poor Kate”, although whether that’s a reference to her religious conversion or her rather wistful demeanour these days, who can say.

        It’s my understanding that Camilla Parker Bowles did not convert to Catholicism upon her first marriage but, as common practice at the time, the children were raised in the Catholic faith. Do correct me if I’m wrong.

        Anyway, not to drone on……my objection to ANYONE changing faith as some sort of an easy “escape hatch” is that it’s pretty darned insulting to those within that same faith who have a deep belief in the tenets of their church. I’ve no idea, don’t really care, what religious beliefs W and K hold (or how strongly they hold them). That wasn’t my point.

        And on that happy note, I’ll go back to lurking…….although I do admit to enjoying myself when *Chris2* makes an appearance. It’s like spending time in the Hons cupboard when she’s about.