Chris Rock keeps his streak running to promote Top Five. I hope you’re not tired of Rock because he’s perfectly executed this tour. The film comes out Friday, and I hope there are more Rock thoughts this week. It’s a genuine pleasure to discuss him. I read this Grantland piece and headed to the gym. Then I thought about it — along with Rock’s essay and spot-on interviews from last week — between sets. It should bother me how a dude who makes raunchy sex jokes interrupted my gym blank slate, but I’m not mad.
Here’s the thing: I often read features & think celebs are playing well for PR, or maybe they went off script. Neither has happened here. I won’t call Rock’s interviews “art” because Franco & Gaga have made a mockery of the word. Rock didn’t sit in a leather chair and talk with steepled fingers, mulling over how to best discuss his “craft.” But you can tell he’s thought things over. He’s a master of observation. Just like he honed his routines in dive clubs, Rock anticipated these questions and knows how to respond “off the cuff.” It works. There isn’t a whiff of pretention OR a sense that he’s lowering himself. Rock interviews without publicists, and he knows his audience. He climbs into our heads and says things we are afraid to say. It’s all in the delivery, and the results are awesome.
Highlights of this discussion include Rock’s thoughts on how being “a role model” is bullsh*t. (I’m still giving the side eye to Mark Wahlberg for believing his pardon will inspire troubled youth.) Rock also talks about how celebrity interviews are bullsh*t. That happens in Top Five — Rosario Dawson plays the journo who interviews “Bizarro Chris Rock” for a week. Let’s do this because I’m already guilty of a long lead-in:
On celebrity feature interviews: “They’re bad.The dream of getting that much access? Yes. You can kind of get it — because I’ve done it — if it’s like a cover story in Rolling Stone. People cover stories are like a week, and they have to have access to your house and all this other stuff, so there are circumstances when you get it.”
On celebs who reveal personal details: “I’m selling a movie. And I don’t do press unless I’ve got a movie coming out. Like literally, why would I do press? People always want you to do press. You never see me on Letterman or something unless I have a movie coming out. Your time in front of the camera is finite. It’s not definite. People interviewing you, it’s all finite. You should definitely use it to better yourself.”
The film pokes fun at platforms: “I definitely made a point to tell Leslie [Jones] to tell me to ‘Stay black’ in one scene. No one tells Brad Pitt to ‘Stay white.’ ‘Ben Affleck, stay white.’ What the f*** are you talking about, ‘stay white’? I just tried to do a movie in a realistic tone. People always think, What were you trying to say? I’m not trying to say nothing, I’m just trying to entertain people, trying to make things that don’t bore me. Trying to make things that feel authentic. Trying to make a movie that I haven’t seen. In a tone I haven’t seen. That’s what I’m trying to do.”
He’s not political: “I’m not Public Enemy, I’m not KRS-One — I love those guys. Don’t get me wrong. [Pauses.] I think I’m more Ice Cube. He stumbles across political themes from time to time, but he’s literally just entertaining people. You might have the most militant record in the world and then he makes Are We There Yet?”
On being a role model: “Be a role model to your kids. Your kids watch you every day. They kind of do what you do. But the whole ‘Be a role model to people’ [idea] is kind of racist when you think about it. It’s not like, ‘Get on the back of the bus, n*****” racist. It suggests that my behavior is not natural. It’s like, ‘Hey I don’t beat my wife because I don’t beat my wife, not because I’m trying to help the race out.’ Know what I mean? I read because I want to read. It’s like, you have a negative image of your people as a whole if you’re putting all of your eggs in my basket. Or a basket of my behavior. Really? I don’t smoke crack because I don’t want to smoke crack, not because I’m trying to help out. So you’re saying if I wasn’t famous, I’d just be in jail and cracked up if no one was watching me? No.”
On celebrity breakdowns: “I appreciate anybody that can have a breakdown. Because breakdowns allow you to clean the slate. After a public breakdown — you can do anything. It’s only going to go up after a public breakdown. It becomes ‘At least he’s not tearing up a supermarket’ … ‘At least he’s not trashing a hotel room.’ There’s something admirable to anyone letting you know exactly how they feel and exactly how mad they are.”
How that applies to Richard Pryor: “He didn’t keep any of it in. He’s like, ‘I’m mad, I’m so mad, I’m going to shoot out the tires of this car.’ I’ve been that mad, but I restrained myself.”
On aging as a comedian: “It’s weird, because when I’m in the States, it’s a little older — when I go overseas, it is really young. I get offers to do colleges. I don’t know, it’s not really a number thing, just energy. Do you have enough energy to entertain a 25-year-old? Carlin had it until he was 70, was knocking out colleges. I think I’m probably best if you’re 30. Paying some bills and have had a woman or man break your f***ing heart — I’m the comedian for you. If you’re mad at your taxes and sh*t and you’re, like, not really a Republican or a Democrat. If you like to question things, then I’m the comedian for you. Sometimes that’s not a kid thing. But I’m cool with it. The 20-year-olds that like me are really f***ing smart.”
On Hannibal Burress’s stand-up routine about Bill Cosby: “You know what, I talked to Hannibal a couple of times. He had no idea this thing was going to blow up like this. I can’t speak for him, but he did not do it for what’s happened. He thought he was just telling a joke to the people there. He had no idea it was going to blow up.”
On the Bill Cosby scandal: “Let it clear up. I don’t know. I literally don’t know. I wish I knew — I just don’t know. I don’t see the pictures — it’s all just people talking. They’ve been talking. Yeah. I don’t know. The whole thing is sad. It’s just sad.”
[From Grantland]
See? Rock’s doing it again. He’s sliding into controversial territory, but what he says is true. Studios lets him roll with it because they know Rock’s got this. These discussions are his creations, just like Top Five is his baby. This movie is about many things but, in particular, skewers the media machine. Rock doesn’t set out to offend, but when it happens, he owns his words. No fauxpologies from Rock. As always, you should read the whole piece. Rock is incapable of giving a bad interview. There’s one part where he talks about how he gets recognized most for playing Pookie from New Jack City. Then he mentions how L.L. Cool J is known not for his music but for NCIS: LA, which is sad but funny.
This tour is mastery. Rock doesn’t jump into our faces unless he promotes something. He’s worked on this project for years, and now he’s unleashing his careful work before he disappears and makes us miss him. That’s why he’s been successful for 30 years. Rock excels at self-censorship (see his words about Richard Pryor), but he still manages to be funny as hell and retain his bite. That’s something I admire and struggle with in all areas of life. Chris Rock is banal and profane but full of truths.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet & WENN
I don’t think he understands what a “role model” is if he thinks that’s a racist term.
It sounds like he talking about people’s motivations on why they are behaving the way they do- their integrity behind the actions.
the way role model used is often to hold people to a certain behavior (virginal young actress/pop star, mellow off the field pro football player) that’s unrealistic/not maintainable and that using that term with him implies that he is struggling to rise above problems he doesn’t have. the term is usually only applied once someone as messed up or is so different from the rest of the people “like him” (or her) as a way to distinguish them as “good.” it’s such a throwaway term now that often is a mindless way of connoting success.
Well said, Birdix
That’s not true. Jennifer Lawrence is considered a role model. It’s someone successful and inspiring for children to look up to.
I don’t think he’s saying that role model is a racist term, but that calling HIM a role model to other black people implies that his normal behavior (being a decent person, not beating his wife, not smoking crack) is not normal for most black people. That he has to consciously choose not to do these things in spite of the fact that he’s black. So there’s racism behind that assumption.
I think our concept of famous people, athletes, etc. as role models is also just stupid. We don’t know anything about them except that they have a talent. Often, they aren’t very nice people, regardless of their success.
+1000
^Excellent translation^
Yes. He’s just suggesting there’s an element of prejudice in expecting him to be some kind of living proof that black people aren’t all bad. Because… THE ASSUMPTION.
It’s like expecting a famous Christian to spend all day demonstrating that not all Christians are about to bomb an abortion clinic or head off to Uganda to persuade the authorities to introduce anti-gay laws. We’d find that an outrageous thought. But it’s exactly the same thing.
Exactly.
Great explanation All the Good Names are taken. Really appreciate the Chris Rock coverage on this site. He is so talented and is one of the few performers whose interviews make me step back and force me to engage my brain.
Yes, GNAT, very well said.
Not tired of him Bedhead: I never liked him much in the first place. I don’t know why; maybe I always found him too hyper.
Great explanation!
On the “sports figures and pop stars as role models” point… I had to write a paper in 9th grade on my role model(s.) I selected two teachers from my 6th grade year. My art teacher and my english teacher. Those two women shaped what I wanted to be, they were fun, happy, thoughtful, creative and the first time I saw grown ups who enjoyed their jobs. The day after I turned my paper in my current teacher called me to stay after class and said, “This is a great paper, but I think you misunderstood. I need you to pick a real role model, not everyone knows these ladies. If you want to be an artist, pick a famous one. If you want to be Emily Dickinson, that’s depressing but fine as well.” I was stunned, and due to my youthful way of dealing with stupidity I took an F because I had written about my role models and I wasn’t going to BS a new paper.
BTW I am now a blogging homeschooling mother who works as an artist, so those ladies really did help me define myself!
Well said GNAT! That’s exactly what I got from his statement as well.
Can I just say again that I love my fellow CB’ers. The discussions here are almost always top notch.
The term isn’t racist, it’s the way it’s used or applied that’s racist, when there’s an expectation for successful persons of colour to ‘set an example’ for everyone in their ethnic group. The term could also be sexist, when applied to women in positions of authority or power. If such a woman performs or behaves poorly, she becomes a reflection of her entire gender and the ‘reason’ why women shouldn’t be leaders (etc.). I think that’s what he’s getting at. No one asked Chris Farley to be a role model. What happened to him is a personal tragedy. If Rock had gone down that road, he’d be treated as a cautionary tale about African Americans and fame. I don’t think he’s wrong about this.
I think it also implies that black people need someone to guide them, as if they are all messed up, unless someone like Chris Rock shows the way.
Everyone needs leadership and advocacy, but I do think it’s a mistake to worship people who just want to entertain, regardless of gender or race, etc.
But there are plenty of white role models too, so it doesn’t have to have anything to do with race. You don’t think Michelle Obama could be a role model to white children, for example?
@Stef Leppard
All I can see when I am reading your comments is “but but but… not ALL white people”, as if the fact that you don’t see how race comes into play here means it doesn’t.
“But… I know a white person who got arrested once… so there can’t be a problem with systemic racism in our justice system.”
It’s the same thing. Read Chris’ comments again, only this time put aside your own privilege and try to think about how it actually would feel if your success and your “good personship” was considered an exception to the rule… the rule for your entire race.
It’s great that you don’t think racism plays a part in it… and it is great that white children can look up to Michelle Obama as a role model… but neither of those things negate what Chris is saying here.
@emgan
So what about white role models? Why does calling a black person a role model imply that black people are incompetent and in need of a role model if the same doesn’t apply to white people?
My point is that he’s not just a regular person going about not beating his wife and not smoking crack. Yeah, it would be offensive if that person was considered a role model to black people. But Chris Rock is someone who worked hard and became very successful! He IS a role model. You don’t get to where he is without working your ass off, black or white.
But he seems to be talking about he’s specifically a role model to the black community. And the only reason why he is perceived as such is because he doesn’t do drugs, he isn’t in jail. As though we all expect black people to be thrown in jail etc.
Exactly, Marianne. Because that is this society’s narrative about black Americans.
Not everyone who uses drugs is incapable of being a role model. There are millions of righteous people who have used drugs, use drugs and lead productive lives. I’m so over the bigotry directed towards people who use drugs, especially from so called progressives who should know better.
That’s offensive and condescending. You’re commenting on a mature adult with an experienced world view.
Of COURSE he knows what a role model is.
Perhaps you could have a think about where he might be coming from instead of assuming that he’s ignorant or intellectually inept.
It’s called hyperbole.
Rock is meaning role model in the sense that he does his “upright” thing because that is the way he is. He’s not a deadbeat pretending to be “white” because it “sells better,” and he’s not doing it to be an ambassador for “his race.” See? All cleared up.
Maybe Rock is saying something along the lines, that you shouldn’t “decide to be a role model” but that some people might “see you as a role model” nevertheless.
And yes, he is right when he says that however many role models there are they won’t save the … race nor create world peace. That is for everybody to do from now on.
He’s saying the extra pressure on someone who is black to be a role model is racist. I think he’s right. When a white guy does something bad, he’s still largely seen as an individual. When a black guy does something bad it’s touted as representing (negatively) a whole community.
Everything is “racist” nowadays
i don’t get his argument about role models. There’s lots of white people (particularily young women) in showbiz that are expected/made to be role models.
True.
he even says it’s “kind of” racist. But with young girls, aren’t they usually role models because they are famous but not acting how many other famous kids act? So again they are exceptions to the rule. And most of the Disney girls end up rebelling/throwing off that mantle when it stops being useful for them. It’s true that what he’s saying is cynical, and can’t be universally applied. But I get where he’s trying to go with it and see how it could grate, in his particular case.
I guess it all depends on your perception. If you think being considered or annoited a role model automatically is a judgment on the behavior of other people, then Rock probably has a point in saying it’s kind of racist. I don’t perceive it that way but I can see why people would. However, I think the concept of role models isn’t ideal to begin with. There is always going to be SOMETHING about a person that you disagree with a and/or disapprove of. Does that one thing then make you dismiss them as a role model? Do you disregard all of the “good” stuff about them?
It’s a very precise point about the use of the term as applied to him and other successful, happily married black celebrities. He’s not taking issue with the term in general. In fact, he says he IS a role model, to his kids, and a parent acting as a role model to their children is much more important than any celebrity’s influence. But when people are pointing to his normal, happy home life as a model for other black people to follow, that’s implying that that kind of domestic bliss is not normal for black families, which plays into a lot of racist assumptions about black domestic life.
I see where he’s coming from – kinda’ like when people call me articulate like I’m some kinda exception to the rule. Better yet, when I say I’m originally from another country and told “you’re English is excellent”. But I’ve practically lived in the US my entire life.
How obnoxious. You should say “keep practicing and your English could be excellent, too.”
Good one, good names. I just think the comment is so ignorant that I don’t dignify with any comeback. Do some people just not think b-4 they speak?
Yeah, your way of handling it is probably best and most dignified. But we can inwardly roll our eyes along with you.
If you live in the US, you probably are the exception to the rule. We suck; myself included. Have you seen my English? Total freakin’ gibberish.
Kiddo, you kidder lol. Back handed compliments are just that hard to deflect so I’ll think of you next time I hear this – b/c there is going to be the next time.
OH SNAP.. I get that all the time. I’m southern. And I suppose I don’t sound like I’m southern.. whatever that means. I get asked all the time “where are you from”.. and then I go.. HERE.. I was born and raised HERE. and then they kind of go OH.. I should ask why’ but I just let it pass.
I assume that I don’t have that southern dialect. And that I talk very distinct. I should tell them that my speech pattern is because I had a slight speech thing and had to go to Speech classes as a child. But yes the stereotypes of how you should sound, act or what you should like or be are there. Always there.
Awwww Lisa. I feel for you. People and their preconceived notions. People are just not good with ‘different’. I’ve spent my life educating my counterparts about my annunciation, my music, hair, etc., b/c I don’t neatly fit into a box. It’s exhausting. There are a lot of uncommon things to which I bear witness but I am good at minding my own business.
I don’t think you should be TOO insulted or think it’s an underhanded compliment. I bet it’s more that the people who say this are not great listenners and, even after you say it, don’t compute the age you came to the USA and what that means for language skills. Oh unless you think they are snidely pointing out “oh good for YOU even though you’ll never be a “real” American.”
Delilah! I love you. I get this all the time and it drives me nuts! Most ppl don’t get it though. “Why are you mad about the compliment?” It’s not a damn compliment bc the person looked at and just assumed I didn’t know English.
30 years? How is that possible??
He started doing stand-up and acting in ’84, when he was 19.
Oh, re Cosby, he says just like noway here on CB said: “I don’t know”. But he doesn’t get that much judgement for it, people accept his right to say he doesn’t know.
For someone who expresses such strong feelings about role models and celebrity interviews, Rock seems mealy-mouthed when it comes to discussing Cosby.
Maybe he just doesn’t have a strong enough opinion about the subject of Cosby? It is possible to have strong thoughts and feelings on some issues but to have mixed/vague feelings on others. Like how some of us out there don’t know what to think/feel about Shia’s rape story, maybe Rock is conflicted as well. Doesn’t mean he condones what Cosby is accused of doing.
I agree Tippy. He really tip toes and skirts the subject. I feel like he doesn’t want to say anything in fear that he’ll piss someone or Cosby himself off. With all of his interviews lately I’m kind of shocked he’s being so passive about it. I’d love for him to just come out and say it sucks, I’m disappointed and disgusted by him or even just disappointed. I mean he stays completely neutral on the subject. He doesn’t say anything to condemn the victims or accuse them of lying, but he doesn’t say anything to condemn Cosby either and that upsets me. I understand peoples points about him looking up to Cosby and stuff, but it would be so amazing if Rock called him out.
While I agree he’s sidestepping the subject, I can understand why he does. Cosby opened the door for a lot of black entertainers and had such a great reputation during his hey-day, for people who grew up admiring him so much it must be hard to turn his back on him.
But at least he’s not calling the abused party liars like a lot of the Allen apologists did.
Cosby was a major role model (there’s that word!) for him, probably one of the people Rock patterned his career after. I would guess that it’s difficult for him to see Cosby’s fall from grace and he doesn’t want to get in depth about it until he’s had time to process. Which is fine with me. He’s not questioning the victims or denying that it happened. He’s just not addressing it in depth. Maybe he will in a few years.
I think it is different for Chris Rock because not only did he grow up admiring Cosby (at a time when there weren’t as many black entertainers or actors with real power in Hollywood) but he actually knows Cosby. I would imagine that this situation for Chris is akin to finding out your favorite uncle is secretly a serial killer or something. Hardly anyone who comments on Celebitchy actually knows Cosby and how many of us were prepared for the sheer number of women who have come forward to say that Cosby had sexually assaulted them? And this has happened in the space of, what, six weeks? If Chris didn’t know about this side of Cosby, then it’s a lot for him to process in a short amount of time.
He *has* already said, though, about both Cosby and Woody Allen (another comedian he grew up admiring) regarding reports of sexual assault that, in his experience, it usually doesn’t stop at one incidence. He has also said this was the year that we “kind of lost Cosby.” So he’s not completely sidestepping it. Chris seems like a person who really thinks beforehand about what he wants to say, figures out exactly how he wants to say it and then just unleashes it. I think in the coming months he’ll be able to more properly articulate his feelings about this Cosby situation. Just give the man more time.
I see your point. I do not in any way judge Chris for saying that, because this is actually the truth. He really doesn’t know, just like noway. And she should be granted her right, just like Chris, to think and judge for herself even if it is not completely aligned with the mainstream. I mean, everything points in one direction. The sheer number of women is overwhelming, Cosby looks like a predator. Many of us, myself included, were victims of some sexual assault in their life and can emphatise with girls who didn’t come forward , understand why some of them came back to him repeatedly. I believe it to be absolutely possible that police refused to accept their statements and procede with the investigation.
However, I see how easily media witch hunts are created. I personally know several for a fact to be completely bogus. I think it is important, and I like Chris for it, not to become the part of the lynching mob, when the evidence is not stellar. Cosby could, however, take all the accusers to court on diffamation, couldn’t he? I just don’t know too. Hope it all will become clear somehow.
Cosby “looks like a predator”. Care to elaborate because I think that’s bullsh*t. Predators can look like any one, they don’t share any physical characteristics whatsoever.
@Q I don’t think Captain was referring to physical characteristics but to the behavior that is being reported by all these women coming forward against him.
I like him, and it bothered me that he made such a wish washy statement. But he’s in a pretty sticky situation. It’s one thing for me to say as an anonymous commenter that I believe the victims (and I do), that I think it’s ridiculous for someone to say that so many similar stories were made up over the years, etc. But he’s making a statement for print about someone he knows. He didn’t say it wasn’t true or that he didn’t believe it. He just said he didn’t know and wish it would be cleared up and it’s sad. Maybe I’m making excuses for him, but I can understand his position. If he came out in Cosby’s defense, or worked on a project with Cosby, I would feel the same way as I do about Woody Allen defenders. But for now, I agree with Boxy Lady, and won’t nail him to the wall at this point for not being more definitive.
He knows, he just doesn’t want to say what he feels and/or thinks about the situation. He has that right and I can see that this probably hurts him in some way. His remarks about being a role model relate directly to Cosby IMO. I am not saying Chris was thinking of Cosby when answering the question, but the two subjects dove tail to me.
I happen to believe the accusations for various reasons and I suspect this may have been one of those open secrets that people in the industry knew, but didn’t talk about.
@Jane I am giving Chris the benefit of the doubt about not knowing because his first comment on the subject was,” I hope it’s not true.” But I think you’re right that it has probably been an open secret in Hollywood but maybe only to a certain generation. I say that because every few years, stories from Old Hollywood get reported that older folks have heard already but that younger people have never heard before. But who knows? I’m sure more and more about Cosby (and any accomplices he may have had, like Hefner) will come out sooner rather than later. That levee has broken, you know what I mean?
IMO Chris Rock has done more to combat racism than just about anyone else in his generation, not because he’s trying to be a role model or heading up movements. He’s just so funny and so smart and so likeable that people have to admit it. And liking someone makes it harder to hate their ‘race’.
People don’t want to be spoken down to – even racists don’t want to be spoken down to – and having someone like Chris Rock talk about racism in a straightforward way opens up the conversation… and since racism is actually wrong and all the points for it are stupid and awful, we definitely want to be having that conversation. The truth will prevail!
I’m enjoying these posts about Rock, but I really wish you would stop saying that “he says the things we are all afraid to say.” The only collective people I know of who are afraid to speak honestly about racism are white people and even the white people have been showing up and speaking their truths with all the madness going on in the US and the media this year and in the last several weeks and months. Stop saying that.
Ick. When can we stop with the sweeping generalisations, especially when classifying people? “White” people… who does that include exactly? Same for “black” people. It is divisive and just lumps people into groups they may have no connection to. It also poses issues for mixed race people who may look more like one parent and thus called either white or black based solely on skin colour.
Role-model discussion aside, he really is the Will Rogers and/or Mark Twain of our time. IMHO, of course! Can’t wait for this movie either!
I’ve been a fan since I was 12. Rock is one of those comedians that to me, only gets better but maybe that’s because as he’s matured his act I’ve matured in my life and it worked out I would find him entertaining. Regardless, I always feel like when he gives an interview people stop and listen. He’s underestimating himself in the role model comment though. Maybe people look up to him and would want advice from him because he’s a successful, smart man with a beautiful family who happens to be black. People look at actors like brad Pitt and say they have a responsibility to do charity or give back because of their good fortune. They also look up to him for the life hes built. I can understand that it would feel somewhat demeaning to be expected to be a role model for a whole community based on your skin color and just because you avoid negative stereotypes, but he’s way more than that.
I’m not sure why this annoys me but Ice Cube was/is a political lyricist, he’s good at it too..
One thing I don’t understand is why journalists keep asking him about Bill Cosby. Apart from being male black comedians, what do these two have in common? Are they friends or have they previously worked together? Or is Rock bringing up Cosby in interviews?
It seems the only thing black comedians can talk about is racism and white people. This is getting really old….
Get some new material.
Same for rappers.
“And I don’t do press unless I’ve got a movie coming out. Like literally, why would I do press? People always want you to do press. You never see me on Letterman or something unless I have a movie coming out.”
Yesssssssssss! The over exposure of celebrities is outrageous these days! Pap pictures too.
I can’t wait to see TopFive!