MAJOR SPOILERS for last night’s episode of Game of Thrones.
Last night’s penultimate season episode was “The Dance of Dragons.” It was a reference to a book of history being read by Princess Shireen of House Baratheon, but it was also a reference to the actual dragon at the end of the show. Last week, I asked if the White Walker attack on the Wildlings’ basecamp at Hardhome was a mic-drop moment, so now I have to ask: are Dany’s dragons another mic-drop moment just waiting to happen? Look at what Drogon can do just by himself. Imagine three dragons, working in tandem, with their mother. Incidentally, George RR Martin wrote a reference piece last week, justifying his (and the show’s) use of violence against women – go here to read. Here are some highlights and moments from the show:
Jon Snow’s Sadface Opens the gate at The Wall. I thought Ser Aliser was going to go rogue and deny entry to the Wildlings and Jon Snow, but after waiting a moment, the gate was opened and the Wildlings were allowed to pass through to the other side of the Wall. Ser Aliser is playing the long game, which is smart – no one looks happy with Jon Snow and Ser Aliser probably believes that Jon Snow isn’t going to be long for this world anyway.
Ser Davos says goodbye to Princess Shireen. Stannis orders Davos to return to Castle Black to request more food and horses after Ramsey Bolton and his men launch a highly successful guerrilla attack on Stannis’s camp. Davos knows he’s being sent away for a reason, but I’m not sure Davos even realizes the extent of Stannis’s depravity. So we got a lovely moment with Davos giving Shireen a carved wooden sculpture of a stag (the animal representing House Baratheon). The scene was so sweet and gentle, you knew something terrible was going to happen.
Stannis loses what’s left of his humanity. I’ve always been a Stannis apologist. No more. A few episodes back, Melisandre told him the power of king’s blood and that pretty please, she’d really like to sacrifice Stannis’s daughter Shireen to the Red God. Back then, Stannis was all NOPE. But as he sees that there is no way to launch a successful attack on Winterfell, he decides to do it. And it’s awful. Shireen carrying her little wooden stag as she’s being lead to the stake is one of the most horrifying images ever shown on GoT. Her cries for her father as she’s being burned alive? Ugh. I hate Melisandre now too. And at long last, Selyse finally wakes up and realizes that her only child is being sacrificed and her soul dies along with her daughter. On a superficial note, kudos to the GoT makeup people for what they did to Stephen Dillane in those scenes. He looked like death too.
Meanwhile in Dorne. It feels like this Dornish plot is really going nowhere, right? There’s no drama, mostly because King Doran Martell is an utterly reasonable man and a seasoned diplomat who hates war. King Doran should be king of the Seven Kingdoms, that’s what I come away with. He’s willing to forgive the family that killed his beloved brother in order to avoid war. Doran brings Jamie Lannister into a lovely living room with Myrcella, Prince Tristane and Ellaria. Doran gives his orders, which are perfectly reasonable: Myrcella will return to King’s Landing AND she will marry Tristane and Tristane will be given a spot on the small council. Bronn is freed (and punched in the face as punishment for punching Tristane in the face). Then Doran orders Ellaria to stop trying to instigate a war and she submits in front of the Sand Snakes.
A Girl Is Still Arya Stark. She will never really be A Girl. She will always be Arya Stark with an ax to grind. Jaqen H’ghar has ordered her to poison that old dude but the she sees Ser Meryn Trant arrive in Braavos with Lord Mace Tyrell (a good-natured moron). Ser Meryn is on Arya’s death list so she decides to stalk him instead of fulfilling Jaqen’s assignment. She follows Ser Meryn to a brothel where she finds him ordering up very young girls. I honestly thought that scene was going to end a lot differently, but Arya got out of there and then she flat-out lied to Jaqen. A Girl better watch her ass.
Game of Thrones goes full Neverending Story. Everything was building up to the Meereen story. Dany starts the games with one clap and she and her fiancé Hizdahr – who I truly do not trust – are bickering. Tyrion interjects here and there. Then Ser Jorah appears in the fighting pit and even Daario is surprised to see him. Blah, fighting, Jorah wins and he looks up to Dany and throws a spear towards her. But not AT her – at one of the Sons of the Harpy sneaking up behind her. Daario turns around and sees that the Sons of the Harpy have assembled behind the royal box and they multitude in the hundreds, at least. Ser Jorah helps and Daario screams “Protect your queen!” Hizdahr dies at some point, but that doesn’t negate the theory that he was part of the Sons of the Harpy terrorism. And Tyrion saves Missandei (does Grey Worm have some competition?!). Dany, Daario, Tyrion, Jorah and Missandei are surrounded in the pit and all is lost… until Drogon comes and fire-blasts everyone hurting his mom. The Sons of the Harpy are trying to spear Drogon and he seems to be waiting for Dany to figure something out. Finally, she climbs on top of him and flies away (which is the ending of Neverending Story).
Next week, Brienne hopefully gets into gear, Winter is taking a break and no one knows where Dany is.
Photos courtesy of HBO/Game of Thrones.
Glad I wasnt the only one who heard Neverending Story music at the end.
The cgi was a bit crap but still DROGON!! yay!
BOO to the Nth degree at Stannis though, what the actual f*ck? Davos needs to kill him
*Missing The Hound since 2014*
Yeah, that CGI at the end was budget. I actually laughed.
Drogon himself was good as always but her climbing on and the long shots of her before he took off, seriously it was like that scene in Willow where Val Kilmer jumps on that angry turtle thing.
Willow was made 27 years ago so…..
Or when Danny and Sandy’s convertible flies into the sky at the end of Grease. We go togeeether like shamalama ding dong.
HAHAHA!!
The Ray Harryhausen effect movies made in the 60’s kick that scene’s bum.
They probably blew the CGI budget with the white walker scene last week.
I like how special effects have advanced, but being a child of the 70’s, it doesn’t really bothers that much. If the effects are better than Flash Gordon, then they help with the story . Really, that is what I focus in, not extremely in the flashy details. They are not the Avengers, and still they have made great work.
I suppose it just paled in comparison to the previous episode which was pretty CGI heavy, so the comparison is within the same show. The work on Drogon himself I love.
I say that as someone who grew up watching sci-fi and fantasy movies (Harryhausen being a hero of mine) and also those with questionable effects.
That was the campiest episode of GoT to date. I had to keep pressing pause and checking to see if I was watching Return of the Jedi.
No sand vaginas though…yet
(if there were one I’m sure they’d find a way to have it raped…)
The Imf is here!
I wasn’t even gonna because that ep was so ridic, but here I am, Ahahah ahahah ahahah…
Also, Abot, the comments over on reddit are killing me.
Main lesson of this episode: if you have clams, you can walk into any establishment you want. *cries*
“*Missing The Hound since 2014*”
ME TOO!! Favourite character. If he comes back next episode (even just a quick cameo, please, please, please), I will lose my sh*t.
I think it’ll be next season at best and that’s only if the theories are true from the books.
*fingers crossed*
HODOR!!! DROGON!!! Now, will somebody please release Viserion and Rhaegon so they can fly to Westeros and torch Stannis and his red witch? Tyrion, I’m looking at you.
Stannis and the Red Woman deserve a more horrifying death (than dragon fire — dragon fire kills almost instantly — they deserve to suffer, slowly, horribly).
Chased by dragons, straight into the jaws of Nymeria, Arya’s missing dire wolf then?
Nah…too easy. Their fall must be sllllllooooooooooooooooooooooow.
I want Stannis to meet the one true king of the north (apparently): The Night’s King.
I had to fast forward the scene with shireen. I know its only fiction but it broke my heart.
First, I want Ramsey to flay Stannis and give him the Theon treatment. Then, I want Arya’s direwolf to slowly eat Ramsey while Sansa watches. Then I’ll feel like justice has been served.
God yes. I used to think I wanted Joffrey to die, but that is nothing compared to my hatred of the red witch and Stannis. I wanna see them HURT.
The burning scene made me physically ill 🙁
Yes! Let’s give Stannis and the Red Witch to Ramsey and let him kill them off slowly, before he gets his life snuffed out in like manner (hopefully by Sansa).
Last night was more disturbing than any rape or murder scene ever in the history of messed up scenes in GOT.
I put my hands over my ears and let my dog outside, I couldn’t take it anymore. THE SCREAMS!!!
OMG YES.
I do resent this storyline. Mostly because I love Stephen Dillane. He should have got a nicer person role!
@Sixer, I do think he is enjoying the role, but it would be nice to see him play a nice person.
Never mind Sixer, if it’s any consolation actors usually just luuuurve playing villains – get’s all the bile out of the system. On a completely different note, I hope your little lad is getting over the loss of the cat.
For Brits, it’s a joy of a show in that so many familiar – and good! – actors are in it. I also love Owen Teale and Iain Glen and and and, you know? I’m still waiting for the to cast Dougie Henshall as something!
@frisbeejada – still sleeping with the blankie, but otherwise ok. Thank you for asking, dearest!
Douglas Henshall – I’m going to have to go and have a lie down… and you’re welcome
@Sixer, my boyfriend refers to GOT, Downton Abbey, The Hollow Crown and the Harry Potter series as a full employment for British actors benefit program. He recently added the Wolf Hall series to the list because Mark Gatiss and Anton Lesser pop up in everything
Lilac – I could give you a long list! Most of the secondary characters are stalwarts of British TV drama.
@Lilacflowers to be fair, I would listen to Anton Lesser read the phone book so I’m always pleased when he appears in something..
@Sixer, he does keep a list. I call it “Six Degrees of David Bradley.”
Me, too! Dillane is one of the main reasons I watch the show, so I hate for his character to get this dark (since that probably means he’ll be killed off . I haven’t read the books.) Can’t wait for series 2 of The Tunnel!
I suggested Viserion and Rhaegon, instead of Drogon, for several reasons. Not the least reason being that they have had nothing else to do. But Drogon was named for Drogo, who would never have registered in Stannis’s mind. But Viserion and Rhaegon were named for Viserys and Rhaegor, who had much stronger claims to the throne Stannis so desperately wants and were thrown from it, in Rhaegor’s case, killed for it, by Stannis’s brother. Justice would truly be served.
HODOR!
I was almost hoping Drogon sashayed past Dany and imprinted on Tyrion and they flew off to find some booze and ladies.
Soooooooooooo pissed right now.
Stannis seemed to be the only one (besides Jon Snow) who knew that here was something more important than petty fights for the Iron Thronw coming their way. The only king wannabe who cared about the White Walkers.
And he was always so loving and caring for his daughter. The one I thought wanted her dead was his zealot wife.
And the Red Woman — smiling proudly as the girl agonizes and cries for help? I’m furious right now.
There must be a really good reason for that b*tch be the way she is…I used to think she was a mix of fanatic, pathological liar and charlatan (not a real witch) but maybe she is more than that. Perhaps a dragon in human form? A demon? There is nothing redeemable about Melisandre. I now hate her more than Ramshit Snow.
Evelet! I’m still gathering thoughts – so that’s all I have to say. EVELET!
I’m so pissed I made a lot of typos. That’s when I type faster than I think.
I honestly thought he would spare his daughter — and I was one grammatic correction away from falling in love with him (you know, when he muttered under his breath whenever anyone used the word “less” when it should be “fewer”).
Stannis is Sixlet Major’s favourite character from the books (I haven’t read them so don’t know if this plotline is the same or veers off or what) – and so I was kinda hoping he would discover his true kingly nature by SAVING his daughter. Not to be, clearly! I may have to have words with Sixlet Major if this is the kind of character he supports!
I have two options for a true king:
First: Jon Snow — the ONLY CHARACTER who has always known what the real danger was, the one who gave Arya “needle”. The one who thought the wildlings deserved a chance to save their lives just as much as the people south the wall.
Second: Let’s watch the world freeze and embrace the Night’s King (the white walker with the badass look).
I think I’m with you there, Eve. If not Jon, then let’s give it over to the Night’s King.
@ Sixer:
Leaving now…:*
P.S.: Going to Pajiba now to check how poster Rebecca Pahle is going to take back her post asking us to give Stannis a chance. Spoke too soon, Rebbeca.
http://www.pajiba.com/game_of_thrones/why-you-should-love-stannis-baratheon-game-of-thrones-most-underappreciated-character.php
Who would have thought that in the end Shireen’s mother would be the only one showing a hint of objection to her daughter being burned at the stake.
While Stannis stood there watching his daughter killed on his orders.
I wish Davos had just taken kidnapped Shireen and brought her far, far away from all those lunatics.
I totally agree.
I’d never thought that her mother would be the one to try and save her life (althought a little bit “too little, too late”).
She once called Shireen “sullen and stubborn and sinful” — which, by the way, may be the only things I will ever tattoo on my body: “SULLEN, STUBBORN, SINFUL”.
Davos knew what would happen. I still don’t know why he didn’t try to run away with her.
IKR, Selyse really surprised me. I’m so disgusted with Stannis, that comments on his character just fail me right now. But, poor Shireen! Her agony stayed with me the rest of the episode. So much so, that Dany’s Neverending Story barely got a rise out of me. Nevertheless, kudos to the child who played Shireen. She brought so much conviction and maturity to a young character who was barely fleshed out in the books. Sad to see her go.
Sometimes the crazy ones are the ones that look and act the most normal.
i had a hope that Davos would secretly take Shireen with him. Alas.
Eve I really don’t think Davis knew what was going to happen. I think he was very suspicious of Stannis sending him away, but stalwartly believes that Stannis is a good man (despite the whole burning people alive thing), and I don’t think he would have ever believed Stannis capable of burning his own daughter alive. I am actually interested to see Davos’ reaction when he returns.
I’ll be honest, I kept hoping the soldiers would be so repulsed at the sight, they would rebel and refuse to follow a man who would sacrifice his own child. But I guess when you’re freezing and starving, while you might be horrified by it, you’ll suck it up if you think it’s your only choice for survival??
And Melisandre’s little self satisfied smile while Shireen burned… I cannot tell you how much I look forward to that woman’s brutal death. And I hope it’s at the hands of Selyse. She’s never played with a full deck, and the death of her only child is going to put her over the edge. I wouldn’t even rule out an attempt on Stannis for allowing it to happen.
@ Rachel:
Maybe…but Sir Davos saw what Stannis and his Red Woman had done to Renly. He left the camp under Stannis’s orders but I still think he knew Stannis would lose his mind and do the unthinkable.
And yes, that smug, little self-satisfied smile on Melisandre’s face made me cringe my teeth so hard I thought they’d break.
I totally think Ser Davos knew it was a very real possibility he would never see Shireen again, hence the toy and the sincere goodbye embrace.
And the coward Stannis watching from a place where Shireen couldn’t see him.
Exactly, Lilacflowers. Stannis is a coward.
I said this elsewhere, but that shot of Shireen walking was heartbreaking. Her feet shuffling in the snow, her hand swinging the toy horse, and the smile on her face because she thought she was getting to help her father…. yet it was obvious no one told her what the hell that entailed.
I actually thought she looked suspicious — or cautious, for the lack of a better word. Being the smart girl that she was, she knew already something was off when Sir Davos gave her a toy out of nowhere.
And the look on her face as they approach the pyre (even if she can’t see the pyre yet)…you can see she realizes what’s actually going to happen.
Heartbreaking.
I’ll have to watch it again. I’m still in shock that they actually went there. Although I probably shouldn’t be since they set us up for it a couple episodes ago.
Yes, that scene was heartbreaking. But she actually had a toy stag, which is the sigil of house Baratheon. I wonder is that is foreshadowing that Staniss will also perish by fire.
Book Stannis doesn’t commit this atrocity, so this shocked me. Ugh. He has gone to the dark side and nothing there is no redemption for him.
I think Drogon needs to have a little chat with Stannis ……
The toy stag… They just burned off the last heir of house Baratheon. If Stannis says goodbye to us and does not recognize Gendry, who will rule Storm’s End and Dragonstone (where the obsidian is)?
Thanks, everyone. I totally blanked on what kind of toy that was.
As someone mentioned below, I think the red witch already has the next Baratheon heir covered. If not already, soon.
I shook with fright and horror at the burning. Melissandre is whacked and totally creepy, but for Stannis to calculatedly sacrifice his daughter like that seemed even more evil somehow. John Snow always puts his people’s welfare above his own; total opposites here.
Just read an interview with Liam Cunningham. On their last day of filming together, he and Kerry Ingram exchanged gifts. She gave him a pillow with a stag embroidered on it and he gave her a small silver stag he had made for her.
Ugh, that’s making me tear up, what a sweet gesture.
I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but that scene was heartbreaking. The actress who played Shireen did such a good job, I still can’t get it out of my head. Once Davos was sent away it was pretty clear what was afoot, but it was so hard to watch. Selyse surprised me too, I didn’t think anything could break through her religious fervour. For a moment, as the camera panned the faces of the watching soldiers I was hoping for a mutiny…but no luck…
In completely unrelated news – and maybe I’m just really behind and this is common knowledge – there has been some stirring on the internets about the final episode being called ‘Mother’s Mercy’ which was another name for Lady Stoneheart. *Possible spoiler* My favourite, although unlikely, theory was that Sansa takes her role and has revenge against the Boltons and Freys.
Anyway, after Sansa and Shireen’s stories this season I’m really ready for one of these victimised ladies to get their revenge on.
99.9% positive that Mother’s Mercy is going to be about Cersei.
The producers have said a few times that we wont’ see Lady Stoneheart. She only appears once in the books (correct? She isn’t in Dance of Dragons?) and that is it. And they felt the character wasn’t worthy of Michelle Fairley.
@MAF, Lady Stoneheart appears at least twice and is talked about a few times
Oh, sure, I know it’s not likely, but I still enjoyed the theory!
Apparently on the IMBd of the actress who plays Catelyn Stark, she was listed as being in one episode of season 5 then the credit was swiftly deleted, so that definitely stirred fans up.
It’s even more unlikely, but I would love to see Sansa take that role (even though that would involve her death) at least she’d finally have some kick-ass undead agency.
I’d totally be down for a Sansa Stoneheart.
Stonehearts name is Mother Merciless, not Mercy. And no, we haven’t seen her in the show so far.
I hope Sansa will get her revenge without having to die.
@Lilacflowers- she is mention a bunch of times in A Feast For Crows but what about A Dance with Dragons?
This is not the Stannis I know and love from the books!!! He is reasonable, just and loves his daughter (he even tells Davos that if he dies in the battle against the Boltons Davos should try to put Shireen on the throne!) The showrunners simply hate him and ruined his character to prop up Daenerys… #stillmyonetrueking #D&DcanburnatthestakeforallIcare
Here’s a theory: What is Stannis isn’t really Stannis? I’m not caught up with the books (still on #1) but from what I can gather, that doesn’t really matter, anyway. Could this Stannis actually be the black ghost baby that Melisandre gave birth to?
In any case…I didn’t think I’d ever cheer Ramsay on with anything, but now I do. I hope he wipes the floor with Stannis. And then Sansa can kill Ramsay.
I don’t understand how burning shireen alive serves any purpose.One might say,they want to show that Stannis is willing to do everything to win the throne.HELLOO they already showed that when he burned alive his brother in law and sent a shadow to kill his brother.
The show should be called Game of Shocks now ,they aren’t doing any interesting plot twist about the throne,they are just raising the shock bar higher and higher everytime a new episode airs.
Totally agree with the last point.
It has become a disappointing thing; the loss of innovative plot ideas for shock value. I am pretty tired of the misogyny that runs through this show, too…….maybe they need to add a few female writers to the show.
I agree with everything you just said. The show has foregone actual storytelling for just the shocking moment.
Not even Dany flying away on Drogon could take away the stink of last night’s episode. Such a pity, because they could have built on some great momentum based on the Hardholme episode.
… Was Renly’s death shocking to anyone? Did anyone actually stop and think “Woah, this guy just killed HIS BROTHER”? A bond was never shown between those 2 – they were related, yeah, but Stannis never seemed to care much about Renly. Shireen is a COMPLETELY different thing.
A lot of people were supporting Stannis’ claim and now he became the most hated character of all the show, there’s proof in this very thread. The scene served it’s purpose very effectively.
+1 Stannis just got Reek’d, there’s no going back now.
Agreed…….the next big question is whether or not burning her is actually going to help him or not. I’m guessing the latter, and I don’t want to be there when he figures that out. Or maybe I do, if he finally take it out on Melisandre……..
After Ramsay’s attack destroyed most of their food and horses (why didn’t Melisandre see that in her fires a little sooner?), Stannis was desperate. He allowed Melisandre to burn Shireen hoping that it would cause Winter to stop for long enough for them to finish the march and take Winterfell.
But I think Winterfell is damn near impregnable, even if winter is paused, so Stannis is in for a long, slow siege unless burning Shireen also hurt the Boltons inside Winterfell, and his army still lacks food and horses. Theon took Winterfell by sending men with grappling hooks over the walls when they were completely unexpected, but the Boltons know Stannis is coming and are waiting for him. Stannis will have to sneak in somehow (shadow baby?) or lure the Boltons out (Sansa escape?).
Stannis went very Old Testament on us this week. I hope Shireen didn’t die for nothing. And I wonder how Davos will react when he finds out.
“(why didn’t Melisandre see that in her fires a little sooner?)”
Because she’s a fraud who just happens to know some tricks. Or maybe her “God of Light” doesn’t like her all that much.
I don’t know, @Eve. Her magic has been pretty effective. If the Shireen sacrifice allows Stannis to take Winterfell, the R’Hollor (or however you spell it) zealots will get that much worse.
ETA: maybe she did see it coming and knew she could use it to get Stannis to let her burn Shireen.
I don’t think she saw it coming. When she came out of the tent she was like wtf is happening here? Unless that was a wtf YES now I can manipulate Stannis even more face.
When the conclusion to every plot-line is the grimmest, most brutal thing you can imagine, then the show becomes predictable in a different way. And it’s not realistic at all (everyone likes to talk about how hardcore, gritty and “real” it is), because even in medieval history, good things still happened some times.
I peaced out of this show during S2. It’s too relentlessly grim for me.
I agree. At this point I would have been very surprised if Shireen hadn’t died.
I didn’t necessary expect Stannis to be in on it but I was absolutely sure that she would burn befor the end of the season.
Burning Shireen is hardly a conclusion to the Stannis plotline. Shocking, yes. Horrifying, yes. Brutally visceral? Check.
But should we really have expected anything different. Here is a man who has been burning people alive for four seasons, for the slightest of offenses. He is not a man who has taken the high road to get where he is. His rigid sense of absolute right and wrong, coupled with his manifest destiny view of his right to the Iron Throne mean that, especially with Melisandre whispering in his ear, he is going to take any path he can to his self-percieved God given destinty.
Personally, I like that not every good character is wholly good, and not every evil character is totally evil. They are people. Real people with shortcomings and ambitions that can blond them to all else. We may think Stannis is horrible for sacrificing his only daughter, but when he believes, TRULY believes, that it is the only thing that will allow him to march south and take the throne so that he can save everyone from what is coming… Well, I couldn’t have made the choice he did. Not now, not ever… But do I think that automatically makes him a bad leader who should die now? No.
Well said, Chris.
@ Chris: I think any leader who burns his daughter at the stake out of religious fanaticism is probably not a leader worth following, fullstop. Especially if he is so easily manipulated by someone like Melisandre. I get what you’re saying, but every single plot-line in this show seems to end badly. Some shows are adept at mixing extreme darkness and lighter/happy moments, but this show seems to only have crazy shocking twists and increasing acts of brutality.
Your mileage may obviously vary, but this is not something I find interesting or enjoyable.
@Chris, I agree. A theme this season has been that it is better to sacrifice one to save many and that hard choices must be made.
It is hard to watch and I know some people will stop watching because they do not want such horror in their entertainment, but I keep thinking of the Bible and all of the death, destruction, and sacrifice therein. Abraham, the father of the three major monotheistic religions, actually bound his son Isaac and was on the brink of sacrificing him in accordance with God’s instruction. It is scary what people will do to satisfy a God.
I believe Stannis was convinced he had no other choice and so he did what he had to do. Yet I also think it was horrible and it will come back to bite him in the ass somehow.
It would be sooo GRRM to have Selyse redacting her faith in Mel and murdering Stannis. It’s all so Greek tragedy-ish, right?
It was George RR Martin’s idea – likely it’s a plot point he’s putting into the next book.
Dany figuring out she can summon Drogon telepathically has to be a game changer. Very excited for more dragons!
I don’t think she summoned Drogon. She still can’t control them. I think Jorah (or some other) mentioned no one can really control them.
I think she did summon him without realizing that she could. He came before to comfort her when she was in trouble. This time, he appeared right after she closed her eyes. They have a bond that she won’t have with the other two dragons.
They certainly have a bond, but I think at this point it’s more on drogon’s side than Dany summoning him. He seems to stick around and worry about his mother.
Agree, Lilacflowers. He was already on his way and at the moment she closed her in eyes, I think she felt his presence.
She totally summoned him with her Dragon Uber app.
Am I the only one who thought it was kinda sh*tty that one minute, Dany and Missandei are holding hands all Thelma and Louise-styles and then Dany’s all ‘oops mah ride is here laterz, Missandei.’ Like, she just totally left the people who were protecting her to the end.
I agree, I thought he was just mostly attracted to the blood etc.
@Abbott, I thought she left with him to protect him from getting speared again and again more than to protect herself. He was waiting for her to mount up and would get torn to pieces in the process. She realized that and climbed on. But I did wonder how the others would get out of there next.
I had tears in my eyes. My husband was disappointed, he said it was stupid. He’s not a book reader, and I am. Seeing scenes I read years ago and that were super important in the books come to life on screen has a bigger impact, I think.
I guess that makes sense. It just seemed like she bailed on her closest allies to save her own butt.
Question: I thought the Sons of the Harpy were former masters, but didn’t they kill the masters last night? I’m kinda confused since I don’t tend to pay the best attention to her storyline. So the fiance was not behind the ambush? And what’s Daario’s deal???
The end didn’t resonate with me either. Maybe because I’m not a book reader and the Shereen scene has me still feeling like putting my head in the oven.
Please tell me the other two dragons get out?
Lindy, i hope Tyrion lets them out and can have his dream of flying a dragon fulfilled.
Abbott, to me it looked like masters and slavex were the sons of harpy. Just the clothes they wore. But maybe they do that just to throw everybody off and noone knows who they are for realz
SPOILER
In the book the other two dragons are released, but by a character that doesn’t exist in the show. And there are several armies camped outside Mereen in the books, laying siege to the city. I can’t remember if that is happening in the show. I think in the show Dany is just dealing with the Harpies.
Also, in the book there are suspicions that the Harpy is a former master (I thought Hizdahr was the Harpy in the book, but they stabbed him in the show). But other characters are also suspected (the “perfumed seneschal” from a prophecy in particular) and it is never really made clear. The Sons of the Harpy don’t show up in force and kill a bunch of games attendees in the book or threaten Dany with physical attack, either. There is poisoned food available in her box that Hizdahr encourages her to eat but one of her guards eats it all. In the book Drogon is drawn to the games by the yelling of the fans and the blood in the pit and then he starts burning people. Dany uses a whip to tame him and flys away.
I don’t know how much that helped either of you!
Thanks, Size! Is it possible that Daario is the Harpy? That dude is shifty
Thanks Size! I promise to stop annoying book readers eventually 🙂
I don’t think it’s likely Daario is the Harpy, but I didn’t think Stannis would burn his heir, either. Daario is a sellsword, shifty by definition. He broke a prior contract to switch to Dany’s side. I could see him being bought by the great masters and betraying Dany, but I don’t think he’s the one calling the shots.
@Size Do you think they’ll reveal who is calling the shots and if so, will it be a character we recognize? That final fight scene has me all kinds of confused since the fiance and some other masters(?) were killed.
@Lindy I’m going to continue annoying the book readers without apology!
I think Daario’s face during the whole thing said it all. He is in with them. I don’t know how but either he is the leader or he knows who the lider is.
@Abbott – On the show the only recognizable person I could see being the Harpy is Littlefinger. But I have no support for that other than the he seems to have his finger in all the pies and wants chaos to aid his own advancement. There are so many more characters in the books.
And I love answering questions for non-book- readers! I just never know how far to go with the spoilers.
I had not thought about Daario being in the with the Sons of the Harpy. However, now that it’s been suggested, I can easily see him doing it for his own gain, i.e. to force Dany into marrying him, thinking he will help her save the city. He’s been pushing for it all season. And his many stories about the things he’s been willing to do to claw his way up in life could be foreshadowing.
@Size, I don’t think LF has his pies in that part of the world. Spies maybe, but I think he’s more concerned with what’s happening in Westeros & the North.
The moment she closed her eyes I figured she was summoning the dragons. For some reason I expected Viserion and Rhaegal to bust out of solitary confinement and come save her.
I thought she was closing her eyes like “oh shit I’m going to die now, buh bye”.
I’m totally geeking out, but I don’t think Daario is the Harpy. He’s definitely suspect and up to something (possibly for his own personal gain), but I *think* the Harpy is a woman. And I’ll leave it at that.
@Lindy, book dragons get released and take over the city
Thanking you kindly my dear 🙂
@Abbot, I think she left with him to save him from the spears and since the SOH’s wanted to get rid of Dany, her leaving accomplished that and would reduce the danger for the others.
Jorah’s face tho. This time Friendzoned by a dragon.
He will never not be Ser Friendzone and I love it.
NOW I KNOW WHY THEY WHITE WALKERS WANT TO KILL EVERYONE BECAUSE EVERYONE IS AWFUL.
LOL. That’s a point.
POLL: You can only have one of the following three characters die. Who would you pick?
1. Melisandre
2. Stannis
3. Ramsey
Melisandre.
Stannis still has the excuse of being caught up with the whole magic/prophecy thing.
He looked lifeless/catatonic while he watched his daughter dying.
Melisandre was smiling proudly.
Ramsay. Stannis is desperately and blindly following Melisandre, but even she is working within some sort of moral code. Ramsay is just a goddamn monster and there is no reigning him in. He needs to be stuffed into a t-shirt cannon and shot into magma.
What about you, Mia?
That’s a good point but maybe she could do something awful to Ramsey just before she dies? Solve two problems.
I actually think Stannis will live and that his torture would be to come out of his haze and realize what he did. Death for him would be too merciful.
“I actually think Stannis will live and that his torture would be to come out of his haze and realize what he did. Death for him would be too merciful.”
That’s what I think, too.
I pick Ramsay. I believe Melisandre will abandon Stannis at some point.
Is black magic (or red?) bad karma more likely to come back to bite Stannis or Melisandre?
And who is Stannis’ heir now?
The only Baratheon left is Gendry. Maybe Sir Davos knows where he is (he helped him escape, remember?).
Ramsey! He is one sick f*ck and deserves to die in the worst way.
Ramsey. Stannis is a lost case because he burned alive his own flesh and blood. No king could get respect after that. I think we’ll witness his end soon. Melisander and her God will clash with the dragons.
But NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING could explain what Ramsey Snow did to Theon Greyjoy !!! He’s not following a religion or a revenge or anything. Just unexplicated cruauly. He put Theon for hunt as a rabbit, he emasculated him, he tortured every last bit of humanity in him until Theon acts like a dog ! I look forword to seeing Ramsey butchered !
Ramsey.
I’d support this.
Team White Walker #whitewalkers4life #whitewalkersrideordie
Yeah, the Shireen storyline just left me gutted. I had a feeling it was coming but to actually try and wrap my mind around Stannis sacrificing his only child to win a battle is…well, I lack the words. It’s one thing to have sex with Melisandre so she can birth some shadow-baby, but another altogether to have your daughter burned alive. Ugh.
That said, I was so happy to see Dany and Drogon, I’d been waiting for that scene since the start of season 5. Okay, they changed a lot of it versus the book but still! Dragons forever. 🙂
Which brings up the question: if she can create a shadow baby assassin, why can’t she fart out supplies and a bit of sunshine?
+1 LOL
Also kind of a poor end game……if he wins the throne, now he has no heir. He dies, it all starts over again. Although that assumes he wins the throne. Which likely won’t happen.
Well, according to Selyse’s pre-infanticide ravings, Shireen was a blight on their House, and if they sacrificed her, Selyse would be able to give Stannis a trueborn male heir.
Without giving away any book spoilers that might affect future episodes, I’m just going to say how I hate what they have done with the Dorne storyline. The Sand Snakes are completely different and never intended to kill Myrcella, instead, they hoped to put her on the throne instead of Tommen. The storyline really suffers without Adriana and Quentyn. But I do hope they retain Doran’s character in full. He’s hiding lots.
I thought Ellaria is just pretending to go all peace, love, rocknroll. But i can see Doran playing it too. He is too peaceful. He is a king after all, he knows how to play the game. He’s been on the throne forever.
is there some unpleasant in store for A Girl? Remeber reading some SPOILER about her eyesight?
It seems Jaqen does not care that much about Arya. The hairy eyeball after she went to tend the dead person was something to behold.
@booboobird, the eyesight problem is only temporarily. A girl must learn.
That whole Dorne storyline is so boring. I always take my bathroom breaks and nachos refills whenever they come up.
mmm nachos
*Rachel says in Hommer Simpson’s voice.
I agree Lilacflower. House Martell is my favorite House but they portray it so poorly in the show. I was afraid this would happen when they decided to cut Arianne , but it’s even worse than I was expecting.
Are we going to get more Dorne after this season or was that basically it? It seems like they couldn’t commit to new characters or something.
As far as the books go, there was a fair amount of Dorne in book 5 but it didn’t end up being a lot of pertinent plot. I do however think that Myrcella is going to end up being killed in Dorne – remember that Cersei is going to outlive her children (poor Tommen). Aside from that, it seems like Dorne’s primary purpose is to show that Dany has allies in Westeros.
Bridget, how are Dany and Dorne connected???
@Abbott- One of Dany’s brother married one of Prince Doran’s sisters.
I think. I can’t keep people straight in more, I need a cheat sheet.
Elia–oberon’s sister–was married to Dany’s uncle I think it was.
Elia Martell was married to Rhaegar Targaryen, Dany’s older brother.
Dorne has always had a strong alliance wit Dany’s family. Unbeknownst to her a pact was drawn up in which she would marry Quentin, a Dornish prince. She would then have all of Dorne’s gold, armies and ships to reclaim her throne. But the prince arrived a day before Dany’s wedding and she gently let him down.
It was Quentin and his cohorts who foolishly broke into the dungeon and released the dragons. During this attempt Quentin was burned by the dragon and died from his injuries.
Why when I just tried to reply, did I get kicked over to Uber’s website? Does. Not. Like.
Anyway, I can’t understand Doran sending his heir to King’s Landing. Unless he plans to have Trystane wed and bed Myrcella before they go AND send Areo Hotah and his axe for protection and they kill Tommen and take the throne? But still. What good is a 17-year-old love struck One Direction escapee going to do on the small council?
Dragon ordered. A Girl must fly, fly.
-Uber
I have been getting redirected like crazy lately, especially on my phone.
Lol at the 1D escapee.
Yep. I have to keep reminding myself that Jamie is not in Dorne and that the Sand Snakes really are not that lame in the books.
@Abbot, the Targaryen and Martell families have been interconnected for centuries. Dorne didn’t fall when the Targaryens conquered and they reached a peaceful settlement, the only part of Westeros to do so. The families intermarried several times when the Targaryens weren’t marrying siblings. Most recently, Dany’s oldest brother Rhaegar married Elia Martel. The Lannisters killed her and her kids when Robert took power. Doran secretly sent money to Illyrio to help little Viserys and Dany. Arianna, Doran’s heiress, was pledged to Viserys secretly. Because he is now dead, he send Quintan to Dany to propose marriage
Yep, the Martells and the Targaryens were allies. The Targaryens were never able to conquer Dorne and instead forged an alliance through marriage.
And keep in mind, that when Rhaegar married Elia Martell, he chose her over Cersei Lannister. Tywin had intended to make Cersei queen. When Tywin’s forces took King’s Landing (remember, he double crossed Aerys to do so) they brutally murdered Elia and her children. The Dornish were never going to be okay with the Lannisters being in power.
And Oberyn and Elia went to visit the Lannisters when they were children, with the parents hoping to make a match with Cersei and Jamie but Tywin was holding out Cersei for Rhaegar, can’t remember who he wanted for Jamie, but he offered Tyrion, who was still a baby and expected to die, as a potential husband for Elia. They were a bit insulted.
When Dany flew away with Drogon, I literally cried and clapped!!!! Best episode ever.
It was always difficult to follow up the epicness of Episode 8. Episode 9 was a good episode but not an excellent one considering the past Episode 9s were the climax of the each season.
I just can’t with Emilia’s acting. I wasn’t scared for her for one second. She was just standing *there*. So there was no punching in the air moment for me when Drogon ex Machina arrived.
They really should just drop Dorne next season. They should just cut their losses and concentrate on the other story lines. It just doesn’t work. The Sand Tits are more of a nuisance than characters you would root for (or hate).
I never noticed how bad Emilia’s acting was until recently.
It only took you 5 seasons?
Both her and Kit are pretty god awful
It makes no sense. Why would he do that?
Melisandre has him believing that a sacrifice to R’hillor, their god, is needed, and only a sacrifice that has royal blood will satisfy the so-called Lord of Light.
Seriously, I’ve always had a thing for the White Walkers — and after that majestic scene where the Night’s King (the White Walker with horns that look like a crown) rises the people from the dead…his calm and slow movements as Jon Snow watches it in horror? Priceless.
I’m team White Walkers now. Enough with the f*ckery perpetrated by humans.
Yes. The White Walkers are the only reason I’m watching the show right now because I hate everything else.
Team White Walker with a side of Wun Wun perhaps?
Team Wun Wun And Hodor!
I hope they do meet up and become friends. Then they could both sit on the Iron Throne (if it fits).
Nope. With a side of Jon Snow, perhaps…Wun Wun wouldn’t be alive hadn’t it been for Jon Snow.
I’m full blown Team White Walkers: they’re the real threat, they hold the real power.
They have the coolest look, too.
Eve – Not a spoiler because this is just a fan theory. The Night King is a Stark, so perhaps they could let Jon Snow enter the band. He did stare hard at Jon Snow so maybe he recognizes that they are related.
@ Hazel:
I read somewhere that the Night’s King was once a Night Watcher so that doesn’t seem impossible.
Seriously, coolest look:
http://stanfordartsreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/cdn.indiewire-e1433367305714.jpg
@Hazel, word on the street is the NK could also be a Bolton. #truestory
“I read somewhere that the Night’s King was once a Night Watcher so that doesn’t seem impossible.”
Wasn’t Jon Snow’s uncle (Ned’s brother) an officer in the Nights Watch? Didn’t he go north of the wall and disappear out there and was presumed dead, killed by White Walkers?
That’s how the Night King could be a Stark…Ned’s dead brother.
Nah, you have to go way way back to the 13th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. All records of him have been destroyed, so it’s mostly hearsay, but he supposedly was a Stark who took an Other for his bride. Lots of really bad stuff happened until Bran the…Breaker (? can’t remember) and Joramun King-Beyond-The-Wall ran him off. Theory is that’s why the Starks have a little Magic in their blood (dire wolves, warging) and why they are so cold hardy. But since nobody really knows, nobody really knows.
@ Lindy79 Haha yes, I love Wun Wun. He’s like the wildling answer to Eeyore or Marvin the Paranoid Android. His deep sighing as walking through the Castle Black gate was a highlight of this episode, not to mention his total disregard for the folks in the boat last episode. He didn’t even think of towing them to the ships lol.
@guest It’s possible that the show will go in a different direction but as far as I am aware GRRM has debunked the Benjen Stark as Night’s King theory. As far as I remember the mythology, Night’s King did belong to the Watch, fell in love with a White Walker and ruled over the North until being deposed by a Stark, and this took place many generations before the current story….it’s been a while though, so I may have got some of that wrong.
Sorry, didn’t mean to repeat mimif, she seems to have a better grasp of it! Had this thread open for a while and forgot to refresh the page, doh!
Team WW as well. Wouldn’t be ironic if the WWs were a more advanced society then anything in the rest of the world? GRRM did mention them being very ‘alien’ from the human perspective. Seeing how some of these GoT douches act they are no more evil/bad, that is for sure.
I was just thinking last night, what the heck are the White Walkers going to do if they win? Yae, they turned the world into eternal winter, now what? Will their threat then be “Summer is coming?” Are there little White Walker women and children? So many questions! Lol.
Yeah GRRM said it himself, no one really knows if they are inherently evil or not, they are grey characters just like most everyone else on the show (minus the true psychos like Ramsey). Personally, I think they are coming/exist just to keep everyone in check, a little balance if you will.
Stannis…you steaming pile of maggot covered horesdung!!!!!!!!!! You deserve everything that will happen to you. I hope Roose flays you and burns you alive, you miserable piece of rotten meat….
Ellaria is playing some game. No way in hell she is ok with Doran the peaceful one and his decision. Dorne seems like such a yawn fest. And the sand snakes are very boring. Where’s the 4th snake since Doran mentioned 4 nieces but i count 3?
poor jon and his unruly hair. Snow is not his ally. At least they still have Wun Wun.
I’m not sure now about Daario and the masked boy connection. For a moment there I thought it’s Misandei who is in charge of them. The silent deep waters and all that. But the whole unsullied army is just baffling. They are supposed to be bad ass warriors. What happened?
#teamDrogon
Just to quote Tyrion:
Once a man has seen a dragon in flight, let him stay home and tend his garden in content, for this wide world has no greater wonder.
Ellaria is only mother to two of the sand snakes. The spear wielder is he daughter of a prostitute. I am assuming Ellaria’s other two daughters are too young to participate in that kind of f***ery. If Doran were truly smart, he’d take them captive to assure Ellaria’s good behavior.
Yep to the unsullied’s lack of badassery. Like WTF?! they just keep getting killed!
The Unsullied thing baffles me. But I think *maybe* they were trained to fight wars, not be bodyguards or partake in urban warfare. I mean, the fact they carry spears when all they’ve done in Mereen is fight close combat kinda shows this was not their original intent.
Abbott: it’s weird. They’re supposed to be total and complete badasses, and while Dany’s Unsullied are actually only partially trained (they were sold as slaves when they were fully trained, so those that were in Mereen when she took it over ranged from almost all the way trained like Gray Worm, all the way down to much newer recruits) these guys are supposed to be the best of the best.
Stole this from a poster on reddit for you guys:
In a nutshell, Daenerys used them as guards and as threats but in reality they didn’t get much more than what they had as far as training in Astapor and killing their masters. Kraznys (the slaver in Astapor) even went so far as to warn Dany to bleed them early, as many of them had never seen battle yet. They’re a good investment, but not as effective as we were expecting them to be.
And I totally agree with you, Abot. I think they are much more effective as a united front, and not necessarily hand-to-hand combat.
Oberyn confirmed back in Season 4 that he had eight daughters but we’ve only met 3 in the show (so far). In the books, Oberyn’s eldest four daughters are by four different women (a prostitute, a Volantis noblewoman, a septa and a Summer Islands merchant’s daughter). The four youngest daughters are by Ellaria.
In the show, we know as of this episode, Ellaria is the mother to four of Oberyn’s daughters. Tyene (the third daughter in the books, mothered by a septa) is the daughter of Ellaria in the show.
What’s a septa?
A septa is kind of like a nun to the septons, for those who worship the seven (maid, warrior, father, mother, crone, smith, and stranger – I think). The High Sparrow who is cleaning up King’s Landing is a septon (like a priest), and the lady who kept whacking Cersei with the ladle is a septa. They are supposed to have taken a vow of chastity, which makes it interesting one mothered a Sand Snake with Oberyn.
Did Jorah give Dany grayscale when he touched her?
Thank you!!!! Jorah is infecting everyone!
THANK YOU! Not one single analysis article I’ve read even mentions this and it has been driving me INSANE!!!!! I freaked out when she grabbed his hand! So is she flying around on a dragon only to turn into a greyscale zombie now or what? Was it Jorah’s revenge for her lack of forgiveness?
I think you have to touch the actual grayscale to be infected? Correct?
Same here. Plus, woudn’t Jorah be in a very early stage of the disease — I mean, to be able to infect anyone?
P.S.: Danaerys is fire proof, maybe she’s greyscale proof as well?
Dany is NOT fireproof. This is a common misconception that GRRM has spoken out to correct. The fire dragon birth was a one time miracle. Dany can be burned!
@Sunnyside That’s what Martin is saying, but they do a very poor job showing it in the show.
For example she sure seems fireproof in this scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7VuGknEfQY
She’s just super heat tolerant, you guys. Dany of House Pyrex.
In that scene the fire goes around her and under her arms, I watched again to verify. GRRM says she has a high heat tolerance but isn’t fireproof.
Just want to add my voice to the chorus of “WTF”??? It was so clear and intentional when she took his hand. If they don’t address the potential consequence, it’s a HUGE oversight.
With all the touching he’s been doing, I kind of assumed that we’re all supposed to assume you actually have to touch the greyscale to be infected. I also thought I read somewhere Targs are immune to greyscale. Am I making that up or spreading misinformation??? There’s just too much information! I need my flow charts!
In the books Dany believes she is immune to sickness. There is a bloody flux (similar to cholera, I think) killing thousands in Mereen and Dany doesn’t seem to catch it (not the lethal form) despite physically handling sick people. She mentions that she remembers being hungry and scared as a child but never sick. And Jorah had leather arm wraps covering the greyscale on his forearm.
Bloody flux is a horrid form of diarrhea.
I kept trying to see if he was gloved!!! I was shouting “Did he just infect her with grey scale?!!”
Poor sweet Shireen 🙁
I feel the same way about Stannis now too. If i was one of Stannis’ men, i would not want to serve a king who is so willing to sacrifice his own (and only) daughter in the name of self-interest. And who knew Selyse has a heart after all?
They certainly didn’t seem impressed, hopefully they band together and rip him and that bint apart slowly led by Davos.
I’m wondering how loyal his men will be after that. Especially when 9if?) Davos returns.
Yup, so many of his soldiers were cringing and looking away. Obviously they couldn’t say anything or they would be next to go, but i think Davos might finally snap. Ugh, if this doesn’t pay off for Stannis (most probably won’t), i’m gonna be so pissed that they sacrificed a little girl for NOTHING!
Let’s be real, this is Game of Thrones. It’s torture porn, a lot of the time, with the women/children always getting raped and brutally murdered, with no repercussions whatsoever.
They’ll probably cap off this storyline with Stannis getting a male heir. At which point, I’ll burn my TV for even having HBO on it.
Seeing the looks on some of his soldiers’ faces, I suspect Stannis needs to watch his back. Probably why Selyse grew a heart and a brain a second too late: if Stannis and his red women are willing to sacrifice a sweet little girl, anyone could be next. I hope Davos avenges Shireen.
My thoughts exactly: if even Shireen, a harmless little girl who is the king’s own, “true” daughter,” isn’t safe, who else is?
Stannis really didn’t think this through. Even if Mel’s magic has been proven effective, that doesn’t erase the message he’s sending to his soldiers. If I fought for him I would’ve ran away already. If this guy can burn his daughter alive, what the hell would he do to me?
Not only his soldiers but also, if he became king he’d be the king who burned his own daughter and heir to get there. Mad King Part II.
No shit. Next time if your going to burn your only living heir, when winter is coming, with little to no supplies or horses, on the way to siege an impregnable castle, maybe you should kind of do it in private?
Beware of ANY gods, imagined or imagined, that say you have to “sacrifice” ANYTHING or ANYONE you love to be a “worthy” worshipper. I want no part of ANY deity or theological belief that espouses that doing harm to ANY other person, in the name of (insert deity name here), is in ANY way ok.
I can’t with Stannis, that was heartrending. I was sitting there with both hands over my mouth watching that last night going NOOOO! What Tyrion said to Dany applies to Stannis as well: a ruler who kills those devoted to them doesn’t inspire devotion. I expect that his soldiers will turn quickly enough.
“A girl better watch her a$$” LOL
Winter is coming~
My husband and I were watching together and as they walked Shereen up to the pyre ” he said “wait what the hell is happening?”
I completely agree on wanting no part of a God that needs blood. I think Stannis will lose Davos over this.
Every scene involving Shireen leading up to and, obviously, including her death was just heart shattering. It actually took me a few minutes to recover once it was all over. Stannis is beyond the point of no return, and Melisandre? I’ve always hated that b*tch, but now I just want her to die in the most horrific way possible. I’m not looking forward to seeing Ser Davo’s reaction when he returns. He’s going to be do devastated.
Now, the fighting pits scene was just as exciting as last weeks battle scene with the White Walkers! I caught myself holding my breath a couple of times. And when it seemed like (no way!) Dany was going to die and then you here Drogon’s roar, I actually started cheering!
F*ck you, Stannis!!!!! Hope it’s worth it, you souless bastard!!!😡
Apparently, the Shireen burning was GRRM’s idea according to D&D. So this scene could also happen in the upcoming books.
RIP Sweet Shireen.
He hasn’t clarified who does it though, and I thought the implication was that in GRRM’s work Stannis himself wasn’t involved and maybe Melisandra did it?
That’s what I think, too. I was mad Benioff implied (or seemed to imply) otherwise.
I hope if that’s the case that GRRM at least clarifies it, as it seems a bit like D&D are almost blaming him for their decision to have Stannis carry it out which is a cop out.
In the books, Stannis leaves Shireen and the women at the Wall. The Wildlings fear Shireen because of the grey scale.
Yeah, I’m really annoyed about the Shireen scene. I liked the character and the young actress was wonderful but I would have been okay with this plot point if it made logical sense. This scene made NO SENSE at all and I just can’t rationalise the writers’ decision to go this way. Stannis – as portrayed in the show – loves his daughter and despite his obvious wish for the Throne, it rang completely hollow that he would sacrifice his daughter after a few of his supplies are burned. Stannis sat out a siege for a year – and he spends a few weeks in the snow and he thinks “Oh well, killing my daughter is the only way to go…” And the people will certainly not get behind Stannis, seeing as he now has no heirs and is a known kinslayer. This plotline makes no sense and was just shock for shock’s sake.
According to the Inside the Episode, George told the producers about this. If George does kill Shireen in the books, I’m sure the context of it will make sense. George is not a perfect writer – his plot momentum has definitely slowed in later books and he takes too long to reveal information but his writing is logical and well thought out. The showrunners know how to write big scenes and occasionally good dialogue but it becomes more and more apparent every year that they don’t think things through logically and haven’t thought far ahead. They’re simply thinking in TV terms of “how can we get people talking?”
I’m not going to give up on the show. There’s too many epic moments, the world is intriguing and I’m very much invested in the story. But Episode 10 really needs to pull it out of the bag next week! Game of Thrones was once my favourite show – it won’t be if I get another outright bad episode like this. This is the first episode of Game of Thrones I would say is outright bad. Other episodes have had problems but the more the show diverts from the books, the worse it gets.
And I think this is/was the issue always at hand-once the show catches up to the books, what happens? Now we know. Hopefully the writers take time in their break to fully realize where the next season is going to go because I feel like this one has been all over the place.
They have very little time to convey everything. As I understood, Stanis was put into a situation were the not many soldiers left that he has are going to starve, he does not have many horses left (Essential for winning battles), the weather is bad already and the morale is down people were already freezing to death on the road to winter fell. (I remembered reading about Napoleon’s invasion of Russia and how winter killed most of his army. This image shows what a bad idea was to attack a place that becomes that cold in winter (let alone battle casualties). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia#/media/File:Minard.png
I hate what he did to Shireen, he should have burned himself or something, but I am not surprised he did it. He is too strict and focused on what he thinks is right and true, he already justified himself when he was talking to her.
And while Stannis is the worst, we can still somewhat blame Ramsay for this, because if he didn’t show up and torch the place, Shireen may still be alive.
And now we have to choose between a the Boltens and Stannis. So here is hoping Sansa still has that rusty metal piece and uses it to kill both of them.
But I still blame Stannis. How come a seasoned warrior like him be outsmarted by a punk like Ramshit Snow?
*I lost all hope on Sansa.
Ramshit Snow!!!!!!😅
@Eve, Stannis doesn’t care about Sansa. Brienne and Pod are her best hopes.
And to think she said in Season 2 that Stannis wouldn’t hurt her when The Hound offered to take her away.
How right he was about Stannis being a killer.
@ Lilacflowers:
Little confession: I don’t care for or about her either. Hate that character.
She’s always expecting someone to “save her” — she hasn’t grown a single revenge bone in her body. Had it been me, Ramshit Snow would have awaken the next morning with his guts hanging around the room (thanks, Hannibal Lecter, for your decorating skills).
I KNOW SHE’S BEEN THROUGH A LOT, but Jesus, girl, take some action!
I 100% agree Eve. Sansa in the show appears to have learned absolutely nothing and she annoys me to no end.
I didn’t like what happened to her but then she goes and speaks to Theon and ask for his help (even before she knew her brothers were still alive…WHY?! He was clearly mental and also what had he done to earn her trust?), then gets another woman killed, and also starts to wind Ramsey up about Roose’s expectant wife (and therefore possibly getting his wife and child killed).
SHUT UP and use your brain!!
Sort of a long and roundabout (frustrating and boring) way of doing it, but I think the show is trying to illustrate that she has NO ONE, not one person she can trust. Zero. Zip. She’s all alone and so when she finally does rise up and do something about it, it will come from within. I used to despise Sansa, but now I’m rooting for her. She’s a Stark FFS, granted not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I think she’s capable of more than what most people give her credit for.
Dany and Drogon are flying across the narrow sea to throw the biggest BBQ The North has ever seen. They could take out Stanis, Melisandre, The Frey’s and The Bolton’s with only a few whisps of dragon’s breath.
@Kaiser,
Doran isn’t a king. Even though it seems like Dorne is an independent nation in the show at times, it is actually a part of the Seven Kingdoms.
Unlike the other six kingdoms which were conquered, Dorne joined the realm nearly two centuries after the other kingdoms (The North, The Vale, The Iron Islands and The Riverlands, The Westerlands, The Reach and The Stormlands) were conquered and unified under the Iron Throne. Because Dorne was never conquered, it was allowed to retain some of its traditions. This included a more liberal attitude to sexuality, equal succession rights (the oldest child regardless of gender would succeed their parent as opposed to the rest of the realm where son succeeds father) and the Dornish retain their titles of Prince and Princess which they use instead of Lord and Lady. Doran is a lord like Mace or Roose but uses the title of prince. As does his son and his late brother.
Also while they’ve messed up Dorne royally this season, they can still salvage things. I’ll be pissed if we don’t see it next week. I don’t want it joining the many dropped plotlines in this show.
I can’t believe how they ruined Dorne, the coolest of all the kingdoms. I feel like I’m watching a crappy Disney movie in every single Dorne scene.
UGH I KNOW. I was SO excited when I heard about the Sand Snakes, thought they were going to be sooo badass. Nope. Just NO. The only semi-interesting thing was Tyene’s boobs (and that’s because I am a pervert and don’t watch the show regularly)……
And while Oberyn was loudly talking about plotting revenge for 20 years, Doran was silently moving pieces and people around to get revenge and restore the Targaryens. Animosity between Martells and Lannisters dates back to the birth of Tyrion. They hate the Tyrells too.
Do they hate the Tyrells? There wasn’t a ton of talk about the Tyrells really interacting with anyone outside of Renly and of course the Lannisters. Though pretty much everyone thinks Mace is a dolt.
He totally looks like the Wizard of Oz to me.
That’s why they badly need Dorne in next week’s episode. Dorne has received very little screentime this season and if it’s wrapped up for the season, that plotline went absolutely nowhere. I actually liked the scenes this episode – Doran and Trystane were badass; the Sand Snakes were fun and I don’t know what’s going on with Ellaria but at least she wasn’t ranting about murrrderrrrr and keeeling and Indira Varma got to do some proper acting.
But the episodes prior to this have been terrible, Dorne-wise.
Dany on flying away on the Dragon somehow reminded me of Harry Potter flying on a broomstick.
Whoa! This was a shock. Up until tonight I thought Stannis was redeemable. Yes he was awful and did horrendous things but, well it’s Game of Thrones, he’s one on a very long list!
But this?? Wow, what does Davos do now? When will he find out?
Shireen screaming gutted me, I just couldn’t stand listening to it one second longer. I love Stephen Dillane and for that I was close to giving Stannis a pass especially after the sweet moment he had with his daughter prior to this madness. I was sure his wife Selyse was the religious fanatic and the one pushing for what happened. To see Selyse break down and try to stop it and Stannis just standing there with Shireen screaming…ughhhhhhh. Davos won’t stand for this, despite his utter devotion to Stannis I think this will break him and I am hoping he avenges her death. I literally had to pop some Alka Seltzer after this episode.
Agree with everything — always thought it was going to be Selyse.
BTW, I popped a Xanax.
I said something similar above. Horrible to watch, but fantastic performance from everybody involved, particularly the girl playing Shireen.
She was awesome. She will be missed.
Ugh, I know why I like to read spoilers. I will get season 5 on DVD end of year – and I will NOT watch that scene. No way. I am very thankful for the skip-button on my remote control…..
By the way, I never liked Stannis in the books, and I also hated Melisandre. More than Joffrey or Viserys actually.
The Night’s King:
http://www.geeksandcleats.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/come-at-me.jpg
Jon Snow:
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–Kun4336d–/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/1278030578310372528.jpg
That expressionless slow arm raising was EVERY-THING last week
Oh, my god, EXACTLY!
So calm and steady, so ready, so sure of what he was doing and what that meant for those helpless humans, so not giving a shit.
We’ve been trying to get my boss to do it to summon the start of our staff meetings.
It is a great scene, but I can’t help thinking that instead of building the wall the first men should have just dug a moat.
@Linn, moat won’t keep ’em out. The NK’s could have made them swim (in the books the water was full of dead things), but you know, he just wanted to be a bad ass and say “Look what I can do, Bro”.
@mimif
I wasn’t very serious about it, but the moat thing was the first thing that came to mind when I watched the scene. All that drama and then the enemies are stopped by a few feet of water?
If the whitewalkes come around, I’ll just jump into the little pond in our garden and wait for Sam the Slayer to come and safe me. 😉
It’s one of those things that aren’t really explained well in the show especially compared to the books. Another example would be the question wether Dany is fireproof or not. GRRM clearly says she isn’t but you wouldn’t know it from just watching the show.
I understand why they put in the scene with the arm raising but imho if you need the books or explanation from the show runners, the scene isn’t perfectly executed. And it was an otherwise pretty perfect scene.
Changing topics a little, so much YES at the explanation GRRM gave. I’m tired of people whining about this being a fantasy series to demand changes in the actual plot.
I think witch is pregnant and wanted to get rid of stannis’s heir
Dayum. That would make sense.
But she rebuffed Stannis’s attentions the a couple of episodes ago. He was all kinds of interested, and she was all “not tonight dear. I have flames to read.” I think she has another endgame in mind now and it doesn’t involve Stannis.
And wasn’t she trying to sex Jon up at the start of the season?
Thankfully he was having less than none of it.
If GoT doesn’t end with Jon Snow sitting in that Iron Throne…I’ll riot.
There’s not a more deserving (human) being.
She’s now interested in Jon Snow and i don’t think Stannis is the red warrior (or whatever his name is) – me thinks it might be Jon.
If GoT doesn’t end with the seven kingdoms totally destroyed, I’ll riot. Seriously, the Iron Throne means nothing when you’ve got dragons and white walkers about to duke it out.
Ditto to what Betti said, and we might just see it in next week’s episode.
@Betti: Azor Ahai is Jon.
@mimif: I find myself wondering if next season is going to be about the White Walkers, and then the last season is going to be attempting to put the Kingdoms back together. Because everything is just sh*t there right now.
Also, I am coming and going on this thread while attempting to avoid huge spoilers. Granted, I’m not too worried – it was a given that Shireen was gone.
Maybe it won’t be put back together. You know as well as I that GRRM doesn’t do Tolkien style happy ending stories, so IMO it’s totally plausible that is ends Valyria style. That said, I’m totally down for an entire season of WW. 😀
@Bridget, Dany is Azor Ahai. It is known.
There has to be more to Ellaria’s plan…I do not see the show-runners wasting the sand snakes like this. Poor Shireen 🙁
I’m leaving this thread with my favourite scene in the whole show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DFojKwVfq4
Yes. That was the absolute best. I’ve probably watched that scene 30 times. To bad the rest of the show is sh*t right now.
I really hope next season they show more white walkers–where they live, who they are, what makes them tick, ect.
I had a dinner last night and get to watch this tonight and I’m so excited! Save up some of your tinfoil for me for tomorrow 🙂
Also, I will absolutely be home and ready to watch the finale on Sunday, no question there.
Don’t get too excited. Report back immediately when you’ve finished.
Woo hoo, I’m all caught up! I have thoughts.
DID YOU WATCH YET? I need to ask you thangs.
Husband and I are watching tonight. It was a busy week last week and we had to catch up on a couple of earlier episodes too.
Am I the only one feeling like this episode was really uneventful considering how far along the season we are?
It was awful watching Shireen die but the entire season have been preparing us for that to happen; that red b!tch does not make a comment or action without purporse. I would never in a million years would have imagined the one to feel the horror would be her mother. I thought for sure she was a lost cause, I was expecting Stannis to show a little more pain and regret but to let it happen in the end and instead we just get an unapologetic ass because he feels power is owed to him. When Sir Davos gets back he’s gonna flip his shite.
Nothing on Dorne and Arya’s story line is kind of stuck no? I guess I’m a bit impatient for some progress and not this snail’s pase we’re getting.
As for Mereen, it was great to see Tyrion bickering and putting Hizdhar (who was enjoying those fights a little bit too much) in his place and Sir Jorah is finally on his beloved queen good grazes but I didn’t thing that dragon moment was all that. When Dany closed her eyes and we started to hear the noises from Drogon I thought yasss! she’s summoning him to save the day! but nope, she seemed as surprised as everyone else there and they were killing him with all those spears. I felt Daario’s reaction to the Sons of Harpy is suspicious as all hell. I don’t trust him on little bit.
Also, no Cersei suffering which was a bummer.
I’m hoping for a deserving epic finale.
Will the finale be pretty much the battle for Winterfell and Cersie’s walk of shame?
Is there any indication as to what will be covered in S6 given that they’re pretty much caught up with the books are they not? At least up to now they have the base material, I’m more than a little concerned if D&D are left to their own devices.
(Cersei’s trial by combat and who is her champion is one I’ve heard but not much else.)
I haven’t read the books so I don’t really know how good or bad D&D are doing since so far I’ve liked what I’ve seen but I tend to be really picky once I’ve seen the source material. I choose to think in this instance that they will work with GRRM to get it right since the book is till far away.
I haven’t either but a huge majority of comments from those who have read say they get it wrong when it really counts, such as this Stannis thing, and Jamie/Cersie last season, also Sansa this season. It undoes arcs that have come before (that did tie in with the behaviour of characters in the book).
They do work with GRRM but it seems like they also feel they can go off and do their own thing.
We will get to see Bran and HODOR! again, and hopefully Gendry and maybe the Hound. Def see FrankenMountain and I don’t want to ***SPOIL** it for anyone but stabby stabby!
Everything that’s been controversy about I’ve read both sides from book readers and haven’t found anything that objectable. Like I said, I’ve liked all of it so far.
I think we’re being prepped for Arya to hit up that brothel next week and I’m not looking forward to that one bit.
I agree with this. She’s going to pretend to be the day’s whore for him and kill him.
I think Maisie Williams was still a minor when they shot this season so we probably won’t start to see her getting raped/having sex/full on nudity next episode, if that’s what you are worried about.
However, as she just turned 18, all bets are off for next season and I’m already dreading what they will cook up for her.
Oh, hell no! I do no wish to see Arya mixed with all that. PLEASE NO!
I think the show’s writers WANTED us to worry she was going to be grabbed and raped; there was some tricky dialogue there I think. I was petrified, and am also NOT looking forward to her in any danger there next week!!
Come on, Arya is going to ax that dude. And then Jaqen is gonna be pissssed cuz A Girl is not being A Girl.
@Diana B I felt the same way. Aside from Shireen being burned alive ,this episode was boring.
A total yawn fest FingerBinger. I was expecting so much more since we only had two left. I guess it now all hangs on the finale.
Episode sucked dragon balls.
I’ve never liked Stannis particularly, this seals it for me. Of course I hate the Boltons way more – tough decisions there. That scene was beyond disgusting and was it REALLY necessary to the plot?
I think that no one is better than the other one. Bolton’s Sharon Tate a pregnant lady so in book they are as barbaric as Stannis. No winners here.
Does anyone who has read the books understand the whole “stone dragon” thing? I haven’t read the books but keep hearing that they think Shireen is going to rise from the flames as the stone dragon? I dunno. I need to give in and read these tedious things, don’t I?
I think this season was just lacking somehow. I can’t explain it. It’s like there were too many characters so we got very little time with every of them overall, so I just started not really giving a rip when they did pop up in a later episode.
The underlying theme going on with Melisandre in the books is that she’s actually got the gift of prophecy and she’s getting real visions in the flames… but she misinterprets them. She’s trying to MAKE the visions happen and instead ends up being off the mark. The stone dragons are actually the dragon eggs that Dany walked into the fire with.
Baratheon’s have Targaryen blood too so it could happen but it won’t.
thanks to you both. Maybe I’ll bite the bullet and read these this summer….
For what it’s worth, the first 3 books are excellent and action packed. I wouldn’t call them tedious at all. Books 4 and 5… not Martin’s best work.
Extremely ticked that this season only got interesting for the last 2 or 3 episodes. Loved this episode. Shireen broke my heart. Begging for her father to save her and Stannis basically not caring. I’m surprised her mother did try to save her considering a minute earlier she was saying something like it’s God’s will. I haven’t read the books but disappointed in Dorne. People were so excited about the Sand Snakes but they made a boring season even more boring. I hope Arya is going for revenge. Dany flying on the dragon was so fake. I’m wondering why the Unsullied is so weak.
Apparently George RR. Martin was planning Shireen’s death for the upcoming books. So sad.
Only days before, experienced a real life tragedy of a family friend killed in a house fire, so the burning scene was excruciatingly horrific on every level. I had to turn off the volume and then leave the room, and I still shook for an hour. Back to fiction, hate hate hate Stannis. Terrible awful power crazy scumbag.
Sorry Nikki, that’s so sad and horrible. 🙁
Thank you MimF. By the way, I always enjoy reading all of your comments.
Thanks m’Lady! I know nothing. 😀
So very sorry, Nikki
Vaguely spoilery book comment: aside from how heartbreaking the Shireen scene was in its own right it bugs me that this plot point was completely interchangeable with another character, and now in the book a different character has irredeemably crossed the line instead of Stannis. How do you reconcile that Stannis isn’t that guy in the book and someone else is?
People talk about wanting to see Stannis’s army mutiny, about seeing him get his comeuppance, but how can this play out naturally when they can’t go TOO off the rails from the book arc, and likewise for the equivalent story in the book?
I cried tears of sadness at Shireen (Stannis you jacka$$) then tears of joy for Dany’s ride.
PAOLANQAR SHOW YOURSELF!
Mimif where were you?!!!! I don’t think Palanqar will show up today 🙁
Looks like everybody had it covered today, but I posted a bit. Next week is gonna be CRAZY!
I think Paolanqar rode off on her dragon…
Or Wun Wun’s wiener. *dies*
LOL!
Sorry I was really busy trying to think of Wun Wun’s wiener. The size of a trunk maybe?
That’s probably why he walks so slowly.
I can’t believe that red bitch finally got what she wanted!!! Stannis needs to get laid. He’s too frustrated and he’s running out of people to burn.
Usually I don’t begrudge people on what they do..But f*ck you Stannis. F*CK YOU.
I can’t wait for Brienne to shred him into pieces. And that wench of a mother.
Why Meryn didn’t recognize Arya? Apart from the Princess Leia hairdo she looks exactly the same as she did in king’s landing.
That’s probably why he walks so slowly.
Dying. And why he makes those big giant sighs. Dude his underwear…wait he can’t possibly be free-balling?
OYSTERS, CLAMS & COCKLES!
Ahaha mimif!!!!
Wun Wun better wear some underwear otherwise there’ll be a lot of bandy ball action on his knees everytime he steps one foot in front of the other!
Not touching any part of Wun Wun but I think we’re supposed to believe Arya is using one of those faces from the House? Or Trent never paid attention to her looks, she has grown, and he would never expect her to be in Bravos?
No she’s not wearing a face yet, I don’t think, and I would bet that the first face she does wear, is from the girl she gave The Gift too. *shrieks*
Arya is presumed dead, and the last time Trent saw her, she looked markedly different than she does now. Skinny, dirty, like a wild beggar boy in rags, not like a pretty young woman in a dress shilling OYSTERS, CLAMS & COCKLES on the other side of the pond. I think the only reason they were even cutting away to him looking at her is because as made abundantly clear, he’s a pedo.
Ser Meryn probably wouldn’t make the connection that it’s Arya, all the way over in Braavos. He wasn’t really the type of guy to pay a lot of attention to someone else’s kids, and he likely had very limited interaction with Arya, who left Kings Landing pretty quickly. Sansa on the other hand, he would recognize.
Anybody else thinking maybe it was a bad idea to burn a living greyscale survivor? Like greyscale may be in the air now and everyone present is going to catch the more contagious version of it?
Did anyone else notice the stannis/Cercei contrast? She would burn cities to the ground for her child. Stannis would burn his child for cities/a kingdom.
Oh nice one. I still can’t believe he did that. If he really does capture Winterfell (which I highly doubt he will) his soldiers (if he has any left) are going to go full zealot.
there’s a lot of contrasts like that, especially in the book. My personal favorite contrasting characters are Melisandre and Thoros.
Have anyone noticed a sign that does not AT ALL go along with that time era ? In the fighting pits before the Sons of the Harpy rebellion, the crowd booed the fighters and at one point did a “THUMBS DOWN” sign. Did the thumbs down sign exist at that era ? Personally I was choked and for the first time thought the show is not that great about details as I thought !
Although Westeros is mythical, it portrays an era when, yes, the thumbs down sign was used.
I’m dying, that is awesome you caught that. The “thumbs down” sign pre-dates to 836 BC so I’m pretty sure it is not appropriate for that time era.
No, I’m totally joking. The Romans did it all the time, I saw it on Gladiator.
*bows down to mimif that takes the ‘gladiator’ as a reference on true historical facts*
dying over here.
I think I’m one of the few people who always found Stannis to be weak. WEAK!!! He’s never made a decision on his own, Melisandre always tells him what to do! What kind of king is that, where he basically can’t even make the decision on his own to wipe his own butt?! When she made the vague reference a few episodes ago to him having to sacrifice his own daughter, I knew he was going to actually do it. Despite thinking it was going to happen, last night’s episode was heartbreaking. Poor Shireen :'(.
I never thought he was the true king anyway let alone the Azor Ahai.
@littlestar, pretty sure you weren’t the only one. I can think of very few Stannis fans, well except paola, she lurrrves him. Anyway, dude is a douche, how many people has he lit/tried to light on fire now? He killed his facking brother FFS. I will admit the beard was doing it for me this season, but dude needs to go. Now. He’s gonna be soooo screwed when Mel realizes he’s not the Azor Ahai.
I am not a fan of Stannis, and while he plays better on TV he still is pretty awful. I’ve neverbeen able to figure out how he could be so unaware of himself – as much as he talked about how he should have rightfully been Robert’s heir and railed on about the usurpers, it never occurred to him that Robert himself was a usurper? For a guy that’s supposedly very black and white, it amazed me how vulnerable he was to Melisandre telling him what he wanted to hear.
Burning a child at the stake??!! That’s it. Too much. I’m out – will never watch again.
Agreed plus I was incredibly offended by the pedophile story line.
Agree, makes it doubly horrifying that the paedophile scene was not the most shocking in the episode. It’s gone too far.
I posted this elsewhere: I’m going to suggest that GoT add a subtitle. Something like – Game of Thrones: Where Goodness and Honor are Desecrated. Or – Game of Thrones: Where Incest, Filicide, and Flaying Rule.
But I still love the show.
Thanks for spoiling the ending to The Neverending Story 😣
Neverending Story involves a big white dog named Falkor, not a dragon, so not quite the same thing.
Princess Shireen is not sacrificed in the books. I forget what happens instead but I am disappointed they chose to go that route. It was too heartbreaking though excellent acting on the part of all the actors.
As cheesy as it may seem, the entire season has been building to Daenerys flying off on Drogon. It’s the climax of A Dance with Dragons (or Feast of Crows, whichever book it occurs in). Her Mereen fiance does try to poison her in the books and fighting breaks out and Drogon shows up. But there is no Jorah or Tyrion to witness it, the aftermath is told from Sir Barristan’s POV because he hasn’t been killed like on the show. After this point we readers have no idea what happens with Dany because that is kind of where the book ends. Drogon takes her to his lair and she gets recognized by some Dothraki tribe since she ends up back in their territory. So my guess is she ends up forming an alliance with them or something.
Can George RR Martin hurry up with The Winds of Winter already??