As I’m sure you’ve heard by now – cable news anchors were in full meltdown mode throughout the day yesterday – Pres. Obama used the n-word. In public. During an interview. An interview with the popular podcast, WTF with Marc Maron. The background on this, I suppose, is the horrible massacre in Charleston, South Carolina last week. The larger background on this is that whenever Obama says anything about race, no matter how seemingly cautious or seemingly ambiguous, he is ripped to shreds by pundits and Beltway hacks. I’ve felt for some time now that Obama is doing the best he can with America’s race relations, and the constant pressure to say this, do that, think this way, reflect this, don’t say that, it’s all taken its toll on him. And now, in his last 18 months or so in office, he’s stopped caring about what he should or shouldn’t say and he’s stopped being cautious.
You can hear Marc Maron’s interview with the president here. I’m also including the short audio clip at the end of the post. Here’s the context of Obama’s use of the n-word (and yes, I censored it).
“Racism, we are not cured of it. And it’s not just a matter of it not being polite to say n—er in public. That’s not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. It’s not just a matter of overt discrimination. Societies don’t, overnight, completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.”
As I said, cable news was in full meltdown mode. The president said the n-word! What does it all mean? It means he’s sick and tired. It means he’s exhausted trying to be all things to all people for the country’s deep seated racial problems. It means we should probably look to the context of what he’s really saying – that racism exists in this country beyond the obvious, overt examples of racism, like using the n-word or shooting nine African-American citizens in the middle of Bible study.
So, does Pres. Obama get a pass for using the n-word? I’m sure there will be some people crying, “Well, why does he get to say it and I don’t?!” I hate that. But if I’m being honest, his use of the word – even to make a completely legitimate point – makes me uncomfortable. But I also think the context of what he’s saying, his larger point, is more important than the “Obama said the n-word” headlines.
Photos courtesy of Marc Maron’s Twitter, WENN.
The context there is everything and he was absolutely correct. People need to look at the paragraph and the way he used that word. He isn’t saying that the use of the word is okay; he isn’t saying it is okay for him to use the word – in fact, h e isn’t actually USING the word; he is pointing out, plainly and simply, that just because that word is no longer uttered in public places doesn’t mean that racism has ended in this country.
Yeah, this. I think people are quick to focus on that word to ignore his actual point. There’s a heck of a lot more to not being racist than not saying the n word in public.
America has two big problems – easy access to firearms & racism. The worst of the two, tho not by a wide margin, is the unchecked access to firearms. In addition, black people seem to be disproportionately on the receiving end of firearm related offenses, so there is also a strong correlation getween the two problems.
It is astonishing that absolutely nothing is being done in the US to control access to guns, despite the depressing regularity of gun related massacres of innocents. It is America’s great shame that the NRA & it’s apologists, are allowed to get away with all these atrocities. It is high time that the US has a referendum to settle this problem once & for all. One would imagine the the majority of Americans are utterly sick of gun violence.
It is hardly surprising that Obama is sick to death of both these problems, seeing that despite his best efforts, he continues to be thwarted by these advocates of death & destruction. He has every right to use strong language, when addressing these pernicious problems. The wanton murder of 9 innocent people by a gun weilding psychopath is the real problem, not Obama’s use of the n word
Correct, Tristan – the majority of Americans DO support stricter gun controls. 65%, as a matter of fact. Why can’t we, the majority, fix this? Because in America, those with the most $$$$ control EVERYTHING. The system is not a democracy anymore. The wealthy who have unlimited resources control our political system – and thus control the politicians.
As my dear husband said last night, “You know a situation is hopeless when a disturbed youth kills a room full of Kindergardeners execution-style in a school and absolutely nothing changes.” Our time to turn the tide was right after the Newtown massacre. But the gun control legislature got nowhere. Because the gun lobbyists pulled out all the stops and prevented anything from changing.
We are the proverbial frog boiling in a pot. Things got changed on the American people right under our noses, and we were so busy charging up crap on our credit cards and competing to get the fanciest car and corner office that we didn’t even realize we’re not steering the ship of our own country until it was too late. Now, the wealthy and corrupt have all the power, and we’re pretty much powerless to change it.
Unless….somebody cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It’s not.
Sadly, The Old KC, Obama DOES care an awful lot, which is why he is so sick of banging his head against the vested interests being protected by Congress. Considering his many achievements in the face of so much opposition & hatred, it is astonishing to me as a European to see so many Americans speak of him as tho he was the anti Christ. Most of the people I know here in Europe think they should already be carving his image in Mount Rushmore. However, as you rightly pointed out, in the US it is well financed lobby groups that call the shots & not the average American. You are absolutely right in bringing up the Newtown massacre of kindergarten innocents. If nothing was done following that, nothing will ever get done.
ITA Tristan. Obama fan here, and it’s been sad and discouraging to watch him run into walls over and over. I am excited, though, for what he will accomplish after his Presidency is over. I think the best of his work is yet to come. I still have hope (even though it may not sound like it).
The problem now is that there are people in the media and elsewhere who will take it out of context. The point Pres. Obama was trying to get across will be lost and that is sad. Btw I loved your post
Thank you. And part of the problem here is that we the people allow the media to avoid doing its job. First Amendment Freedom of the Press carries responsibilities, not just privilege, and the media shirks its responsibilities when it focuses on soundbites and words taken out of context and not the actual event or broader statement.
I am glad the president said this. I was annoyed with him right after the SC massacre when he said it was attributed to gun control
We are nearing the end of the President’s term and it has become clear that America has a problem. I don’t know why it has become such an apparent problem now. Maybe its because we have focused on international issues for over 15 years and not spent any time on domestic issues.
However, it seems clear that the next President will not be or cannot be a Republican.
” I don’t know why it has become such an apparent problem now.”
it’s because he dared to be a black man as president…that brought all of the “quiet, closet racists” out to the forefront because HOW DARE HE!!!! these people think that he’s causing race issues in America because he exists as a black man and has the balls to talk about race relations…therefore, by their standards, he’s a “race-baiter” and is exacerbating the problems, when all he’s doing is trying to address them as a realist.
@Doofus: You summed it up perfectly. You can definitely see that people have that attitude if you go by comment sections on the internet and opinion sections in local or state newspapers.
100% with you, Doofus
In a way, it’s almost a relief. Remember the “Is Racism over” topic that was floating around after the 08 election?
At this point in 2015, it has become an accepted part of the mainstream conversation that we live in circumstances of pervasive racism and that we all have a long way to go. The hate directed at Obama helped create this
@doofus , it doesn’t explain the President’s first term, which was nothing like this.
denisemich, it was there, for sure, but not as pronounced (remember that congressman who yelled “LIAR!” while Obama was speaking?)…people were more subtle in their racism, it was done with “code words” and a wink/nod.
and i do think it has to do with the fact that he DARED to be re-elected. just like the overall “fatigue” the talking heads refer to regarding second terms, I think that people’s hatred/racism reached a boiling point during his second term.
these folks are being marginalized more and more as people are more willing to speak out against bigotry…that is to say, the more folks acknowledge that yes, racism still exists and try to fight it and other bigotry, the more the bigots freak out because they know they’re a dying breed and are fighting tooth and nail to “be heard”. they’re going to go out with bang and not a whimper, to be sure.
ETA: not sure that was very eloquently put, but I think you got my meaning… 🙂
@doofus +1000000000. You nailed it, both times. Thank you.
The bigots aren’t dying out. I know it’s a comfort to think that, just as it’s a comfort (to some) to assume that those nine lives were taken by someone who was deranged, but neither are true. Think of the ages of the people carrying out these attacks and committing these murders, they aren’t part of the crowd that fought against integrated schools, they are young, they are really young. I’m not sure where this idea that the racism will literally die out is coming from and I don’t believe it’s true. These aren’t isolated incidents.
Things didn’t get worse, people just got cameras.
I agree doofus, you got it both times.
I also agree with Jo’ Mama and that sadly it’s not quite dying out. People are teaching it to their children, others are just looking for someone to blame for their own failures and finding an easy scapegoat in the black community. Thank God the majority of phones have cameras because it’s finally putting a picture on the horrific reality people have lived with for so long.
But you know what? I think the numbers are getting smaller and that marginalized group is getting smaller, of course that makes them more dangerous but well…gotta look on the positive somehow.
Agreed, didn’t see your post, while writing mine.
And please don’t assume that all older people have right wing views on this or any other issue. A lot of white people were involved in the civil rights movement and subsequent struggles and they don’t become racists just because they got older.
What?
Not directed at you kiddo. But there is a vibe above that it’s the old fossils that are keeping the flame of racism burning and that once nature takes its course all the tolerant youngsters will get rid of all that nasty prejudiced stuff. Not so.
oh, I should have clarified, sorry Anne tommy.
when I said “dying” I didn’t mean LITERALLY dying off…I just meant that, as people become more enlightened and more open-minded, that mentality is dying off. slowly, to be sure, but I do think it’s happening. (I have one “friend” in my group who was pretty bigoted, but not outspoken about it, and once she started living in the “inner city” and tutoring/mentoring disadvantaged youth, she changed her tune about simplifying the problems of the black community as them being “lazy” or “thuggish”. it was kind of great to see…)
in NO WAY did I mean to denigrate any “older” person’s contributions to the civil rights fight. I’m sorry that wasn’t more clear.
@Anne Tommy Many of these “white people” were Jews. I just want to point that out to show that the whites involved were those who were also marginalized. They were not the ones who, by and large, stood to benefit from white supremacy. But, yes, I agree with you that racism won’t die once old folks drop dead. If that were true, it would have already happened. They were saying that in the ’60s and today we certainly aren’t any closer to curing racism. What bothers me about the response to Obama saying the N-word is that no one is discussing racial microaggressions and subtle racism, which was his entire point.
http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/fl/Obama-Used-N-Word-During-Marc-Maron-Podcast-to-Make-Point-About-Racism.htm
Thanks doofus, no problem.
Knittle, the white people involved in 1960s radicalism and since were a mix I think and included quite a few students even from Ivy League universities. you are right that Jews were also disadvantaged in many ways- there has still never been a Jewish US President of course – and I think any narrative and discussion needs to take account of the fact that white people are not a homogeneous undifferentiated group, any more than black people are.
@Anne Tommy, okay, I was at a loss.
This even made the news here this morning. The newsreader looked a bit bemused at the fuss!
It seems peculiar that someone describing racism would not be allowed to say a racist term in the course of that description. I mean, I get the starring/dashing convention on the internet that Kaiser uses here. But for the president of a country to enunciate “en word” as some kind of Bowdlerism when he’s talking about racism? That seems to infantilise the audience from the perspective of a Brit.
But then, I *am* a Brit, so who am I to say how another country should approach its trigger terms?
Sadly, the audience is proving that it is comprised of infants when it can’t move past the fact that the President used a word, basically as an example, instead of dealing with what he was actually saying about the state of racism in this country.
I’m an American living in Britain, and, believe me, you don’t need to be British to see this nonsense as infantilizing the audience, much like the ridiculosity that the New York Times’ anti-profanity policy sometimes leads to in stories where key quotes involve profanity.
There’s a few key things here, to my mind: 1) Obama has lived his entire life being perceived as a black man and dealing with the concomitant prejudices of others, thus earning the right to say the unexpurgated n-word; 2) this was in the context of talking about real-world racism, and the fact that we can’t declare the battle won just because it’s no longer socially acceptable to publicly use the slur which has carried the heaviest racist freight in the U.S. for centuries; 3) this was a podcast, not Sesame Street, and was not intended for an audience of children.
People who claim to be offended by this are not serious people, are not serious about eradicating racism, and do not deserve to be taken seriously. I’m no Obama fan due to his atrocious record on civil liberties, but to put him down for this is beyond absurd, and makes me really angry at people who are more interested in playing “gotcha” about saying a “bad word” than in discussing the racism that is woven throughout American culture.
I also think that the media plays a part – including foreign media like the BBC – for even making a news article out of it. Talk about dog whistling for faux outrage. How that gets the US and its discussion of racism any further forwards completely defeats me. We need to be INFORMED, not manipulated into pointless and deflecting hysteria.
@TheOtherKatherine: I used to work in print journalism and anti-profanity policies frustrated the hell out of me. I get playing it safe so as not to offend a large portion of your readership, but in that case, say “kick his a–” instead of “kick his [behind].” I was working one day when we got in a story about how some public figure used the term “sloppy seconds,” and there was much hand-wringing about that. Seriously?????? I flat-out refused to censor it, but some other outlets did. Smh!
Faux outrages are the best way of distracting people from real issues. And I might get flack for this but America has some kind of white-saviour problem. Some white journalists are jumping on politicians words and take them completely out context so that they can show how ‘sensitive’ they are but they are not actually sensitive because they will hardly let people focus on the real issues. I don’t know if that is something they do willingly or something about the culture of USA but it is harming the conversation rather than helping it.
Dear Chet Haze,
Not even the motha-f*ckin’ President of the b!tch-a** United States can use the gat-danged n-word. And he’s black, you d*ck.
But seriously, there is power in its usage and in its non-usage. Even J.K. Rowling touched on the power given to words, where the fear of them infuses them with even more power.
Did the President call someone the n-word? Was he even referring to a person in the abstract? No! Context IS everything here. If one felt uncomfortable hearing him use it, GOOD! It SHOULD make you feel uncomfortable! And I think that’s why he said it. You should know it’s a BIG deal to still be using that terminology now, but it isn’t even the point anymore. Imagine if one confronted the real issues as opposed to just fixating on symbols, like the usage of a word or a flag hanging over the Capitol? But people are too scared or uninterested in doing that (for myriad shady reasons), so they operate on the surface with symbolic gestures and let the racism and hatred continue to fester.
@ The Other Katherine: Yes, you may well be the other Katherine… but might you consider being my Katherine as well?
I love everything you said and how you said it.
There was an underrated movie here – The American President – in which Aaron Sorkin writes Pres. Michael Douglas a speech berating Richard Dreyfuss’ wing nut, knee-jerk character for ‘not being serious in a serious discussion about a serious problem’ (paraphrase). It always stuck with me, as has the simple but substantive & redolent word ‘serious.’
belle de jour, I’m here all week. [ba-DUM-dum] The “serious person” thing is mostly a tip of my non-pontifical hat to Ken White at Popehat, who has used it to memorable effect in a number of his illustrious blog posts.
@ Oh Katherine, My Katherine: non-pontifical hats are the best. They usually do not make you snicker behind your knuckles (unless they are trilbies bopping around Brooklyn), plus they also catch less rainwater. And pom-poms.
I’m off to avoid writing yet again by splitting hairs under Mr. White’s Popehat. Thanks for the road sign.
Please read this!
http://alternet.org/news-amp-politics/11-ways-white-america-avoids-taking-responsibility-its-racism
I agree that he didn’t actually use “use” the word it’s like me telling my mom when I was little that the teacher told us we couldn’t say a certain curseword, she asking what word and me answering.
The things he said are more important than how he said it.
The media and some people are intentionally leaving out the context in which he said it.
This reminds me of Chevy Chase when he was on that show “Community.” The media took what he said completely out of context. His character was somewhat racist and made racist comments and stereotypes. Chevy was frustrated with all the racist material they kept giving his character so he said something like “What’s next are you gonna have me say (insert N-Word). The media ran with it and said he used a racial slur and Chase is a racist. Even some people on C/B was calling him a racist. Some said we get what he was saying but he could have said it another way. Now I wonder will people say well President Obama could have stated this another way. I don’t think anything is wrong with the way President Obama or Chase stated their feelings. Yet people will still continue to take what they said out of context because it’s easier to be negative than positive. Positives don’t sell papers or get too many headlines.
Like Obama the message Chase was sending got lost. He was disgusted that they kept making his character more and more racist.
Agree with all you said, Lilacflowers.
yeah, anyone who is able to read for comprehension will get that, but you know how people are…
The n word? Seriously WTF? What’s the difference between making people hear it and making people think it?
I saw some tweets saying he’s the first President in office to actually use it in context whereas previous presidents (such as Andrew Jackson) all used it in a negative manner and that people seem to be more mad about the fact that he said the n word than the countless times he’s been called the n word since 2008.
It seems to me that the anger is coming from non-blacks which I find really strange and funny. From what I’ve heard, black people are in agreement with his use of the word and honestly only their opinion truly matters when it comes to a situation like this IMO.
Isn’t it usually the case that sanctimonious middle class white people get a media platform to air their views? Personally I can’t stand it when middle class white people preach about racism. Primarily because I think they’re usually doing it to demonstrate how enlightened they’re rather than doing it out of genuine concern for the victims of racism.
Yeah!!!!! Middle-class white people should just shut the f*ck up and let all the racist white folks have the floor!!!
Let those assholes speak for us, right?
Agree kitten. Show your claws! White people can be very genuinely concerned about black victims of racism: just as Gentiles can object to the nazi mass Murder of Jews and men can object to FGM. It’s not The same perspective as that of the victims but we can’t help that. Don’t be so cynical name dropper, it’s not edifying.
@Kitten: Wrong! The sanctimonious white middle-class blowhards should STFU and let the victims of racism and economic disadvantage have the floor, instead of using the oppression of others as a vehicle for self promotion. If middle-class white people really cared about the victims of systemic racism and economic disadvantage they’d take a paycut and go and work in the social welfare or community health sectors.
Mispronounced, I don’t agree with your statement…why not BOTH groups speak out?
certainly, black people have a much more relevant life experience of racism as they live it almost every day, and their experiences and their stories are needed to be heard so that people who DON’T experience it every day know what they go through and understand what it’s like to live as a black person. no, no white person will ever KNOW what it’s like to live as a black person, but hearing from the black community will help them understand.
but, the “sanctimonious middle-class”, as you so judgily refer to them, has a place too. they can act as a support structure for their friends and loved ones who are living it. not all of them are using the oppression of others for self-promotion. some of them TRULY want to help and I don’t see why they should STFU and not support their minority brothers and sisters.
it’s not one or the other…both groups have a place.
Black people are hardly in agreement about use of the N-word. Some of the people criticizing Obama, Marc Morial of the National Urban League and Sunny Hostin of CNN, are black. There are black people who think the N-word should never be used; black people like me who don’t mind if it’s being used to discuss racism, in a historical context or in literature; and black people who have no problem with casual use of the N-word, such as, “What’s up, my n—-?”
http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/fl/Obama-Used-N-Word-During-Marc-Maron-Podcast-to-Make-Point-About-Racism.htm
Agreed, Lilacflowers.
But I would also add that even though I personally hate hearing this ugly word, and as a white person it will never cross my lips in any context…
I think there’s something to be said for black people “claiming” it, if you will, and lessening its power, while also conveying its connotation/denotation and the impact its had on our history. That the first African-American President of the U.S. did this so publicly really says something in a way that almost no one else can.
The other thing is this: What could be uglier than recent events and racism itself?
laura in LA, I agree with you about black people claiming the word for themselves. To lessen its ‘negativity’, is the way I think of it. My now grown son had many black friends growing up who used this word amongst themselves in normal conversation and it was said in comradery. I have no problem with the President using the word in the context he did. I do, however have a problem with some of the commenters on this site rushing to stick up for the President in everything he does and says. He has made mistakes, (If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon, anyone?) and to just sweep these under the rug is as bad as calling people racist if they did not vote for this President or if a bad word is spoken about him. When are so-called liberal thinking people going to realize that there are DEGREES of thinking different than theirs? It isn’t as plain as ‘think like us liberals or you are just a stupid racist money-grubbing Fox- watching conservative arsehole. I know you posters get alot of liberal support on this site, but some of you need to try to curb being so smug, self satisfied, and yet curiously defensive. I am a fiscal conservative, I voted for Bill Clinton because I thought he was the best man for the job. I think he did a good job. I did not vote for Barack Obama because I did not believe his hope and change rhetoric, it sounded too unrealistic and he was too green for the position (in my opinion). In other words, I did not believe he was the best man for the job, simple as that. Skin color does not factor into my decision process. Now, bring on the commentary, I can take it.
Thank you for your reply, beanie, but I’m not quite sure why you’re directing your negative comments about liberals at me?
@Lilacflowers, you’re so right! I was appalled last night to hear on the evening news (I live in NYC) the political commentator on the show and the talking head both said ” This is not the first time President Obama has been controversial.” Controversial?!?! It is so damn obvious that the journalists/media would prefer to make a bigger deal over the use of the word than to actually talk about what was being said. This is such a NON-STORY and a missed opportunity because I felt like the President made so many good points in this interview.
Exactly. I never use the N word and I actually told a friend (that thought being my friend was a pass to use it) to never utter it around me ever. He got the message real quick.
The point he is making is that racism isn’t overt anymore. It’s in the system the ways blacks get high sentences than whites with the same crimes. In the job market where it’s harder to be higher. In the news where blacks are thugs and must be no angel which is why they are gunned down unarmed but Dylann Roof was a nice quiet boy. This is racism. It’s in the very fabric of society. That was his point.
And why white people are all up in arms about him saying it but they don’t say anything about it when Faux News spouts racism off about the president and people call him the N word day in and day out. Just baffling
Hoarse from saying it but context and intention always count.
THANK YOU, Doofus, the other Katherine, Sixer, Pinky, Tristan, the Old KC, LilacFlowers and all, for all of this intelligent and thoughtful commentary. It has truly been a breath of fresh air to read. My entire Facebook feed is currently full of people defending the confederate flag with nothing but total ignorance, so you guys have restored my faith in humanity. Much love. *applause*
I’m sitting at my desk relieved by all of the thoughtful, on point comments. But I’m still flabbergasted that this is being made into much ado, considering the context in which he used the word. Only the deliberately obtuse can miss the point he was making (and how sad is it that he sounds so damn defeated) and the resulting furor unfortunately, perfectly illustrates his point. People would rather focus on his use of a word than on the issue of racism itself. SMH.
Great posts, especially Lilacflowers & Tristan. Living where I do, a transplant from SoCal to the misnamed *Heartland* of RedState America, sometimes I have to run to Celebitchy just for a hit of rational and intelligent discourse on the hotbutton issues of the day. Whew, so effing glad you’re all here. Poor Obama. He can’t do a single thing without taking hits from both sides. I was talking to an old pal in Brooklyn yesterday – a volunteer in his ’08 campaign, as I was – and she said that although she realizes all POTUSes age in office, she had never seen a president age as much as Obama has. He looks like the spirit has been wrung completely out of him.
People can calm down, its not like he said ‘ what’s up my n****’ he used it in a certain context.
How often do his detractors keep things in context?
Forget using the “N” word. The fact the President of the United States is appearing on a show called WTF is embarrassing enough to me.
word
Where would you have preferred that he begin this conversation? On Fox News? That’s an awfully dismissive take on an incredibly important subject.
One of the most popular and respected podcasts around? Yeah, how embarrassing.
Yeah, we’re going to deal with race in this country when people get all pissy about podcasts not getting the proper respect. Is there anything people don’t get offende by?
There’s a perfectly good argument to be made that the presidency loses its bully pulpit when it’s reduced to using shows called WTF.
How positively stuck up and backwards. Marc Maron is one of the best interviewers currently operating.
“One of the best interviewers”? So good that millions have never heard of him. Myself included!
.
POTUS has done nothing for race relations in this Country since taking office, nothing. Factually, only making them worse!
Judd, it’s hard for him to make race relations better when you have a large portion of the electorate who thinks he doesn’t deserve to be there and shouldn’t have been elected, based solely on his skin color. that’s not HIS fault…it’s the bigots’ faults. if they don’t even acknowledge him as a leader because he’s black, how can he even ADDRESS race relations with them? never mind making them better.
as for this…
“Factually, only making them worse! ”
how, specifically, has he made it worse? by being a black man talking about race and his own personal experiences? ones that prove racism still exists?…
I know, I know…people like you basically want him to declare that there’s no such thing as racism in this country and that it’s ended…anything else, by your standards, is “making it worse”.
you know what would improve race relations in this country? if we didn’t have so many bigots.
Is he making it worse by incensing the racists due to the fact their precious White House has a brown man and his beautiful family in it? Does it bother you Judd?
Complain about B. Obama’s presidential policies all you want but to claim that he’s somehow made race relations worse in this country is just so insanely ignorant.
Now the guy suddenly invented racism?
I mean, that’s some “thanks, Obama” bullshit right there.
To explain it as simply as possible: the number of race-related incidents has not increased since Obama’s presidency, it’s just that social media and modern technology has heightened our awareness through media exposure.
Additionally, if you combine that with changing racial demographics and whites losing the advantages that they retained for so long through sheer numbers, and we have a lot of pissed off white folks. To them, POTUS is the embodiment of what they do not have, and will never have again: dominance over this country. They hate him because they ain’t him and never could be him. I guess it’s easier to blame it all on the president instead of taking a close look at what’s causing the racial division.
I swear some people want Pres Obama to pretend that he isn’t black, because they somehow think that him talking about his racial identity is “stoking the fire”.
I find that completely bizarre, but mainly it’s just f*cking illogical.
“To them, POTUS is the embodiment of what they do not have, and will never have again: control over this country.”
and THIS is why you are Kitten the Wise. perfectly stated.
to add, THIS is also what the wingnuts mean when they say “take back our country”…they mean, “from the black man” or “to the time when blacks (and gays) knew their place”.
to add, THIS is also what the wingnuts mean when they say “take back our country”…they mean, “from the black man” or “to the time when blacks (and gays) knew their place”.
Exactly, doofus, but you forgot “women”;)
But yeah precisely what you said. In the past we could pretend that people with this mindset didn’t exist, but now these freaks are coming out of the woodwork and showing their angry faces on Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, and all other forms of social media. They’re being confronted with their biggest fear: change. So the loud and dissenting voices of those who fear change and hope that intolerance will prevail are contrasting/clashing with those of us who are listening and advocating for equality and progress.
But this started way before Obama was president, when George Halliday videotaped Rodney King getting the sh*t beat out of him. I’ve no doubt that incidents like that were commonplace (and still are, sadly) but without law enforcement having the same sets of checks and balances that the rest of us have, it went unnoticed. Without modern technology, it went undocumented. Again, easy for everyone to pretend it wasn’t happening, ignorance is bliss, and all that. American society created a system that protected the perpetrators and enabled their abuse. We have to address this together– this is our country’s responsibility, this is NOT President Obama’s fault FFS.
Oh doofus, there’s nothing that gets my hackles up more quickly than the “take back our country” rhetoric. It can actually be helpful in some ways because it outs people for the wingnuts they are. For example, a woman in my local gov’t, which is non-partisan, seemed like a fairly reasonable person upon first meeting. I checked out her Facebook page and saw that she used the phrase in some different campaign materials and it immediately let me know what her real agenda was.
Well said all, but I do slightly disagree with one thing.
I do think the number of race based conflicts and racial tensions is growing. I fully agree that the story didn’t fully break the consciousness of the general public till it was videotaped and shown on the 6 o’clock news but I also think we’re seeing a slight upswing.
I think there’s a segment of the population that it absolutely burns to see Obama in power and concern for blacks becoming major issues. I believe it’s like the difference between a dull ache you have but can ignore and the sensation of that thorn now prominently throbbing in your side.
I believe that’s why we see so many politicians so staunchly opposed to everything Obama does. Yes even as a Democrat they disagree, but as a ‘black man’ making changes to this nation’s structure and discussing it’s issues? There’s a fervent foaming at the mouth need to disagree with him, to fight him at every turn, to block him even if that means our government grinding to a halt and harming citizens. Even Ted Cruz was angry they ‘blinked’ on the last stand off when the function of the nation was on the line.
I believe we have many Dylan Roofs out there who haven’t taken action and who just sit all day, stewing, and getting angry, and posting on conservative web sites and blaming everyone else for their lack of success. All it takes is that one incident to fuel and change something inside them and that’s partly what makes it so frightening.
With Roof it was, in his mind, the unfair persecution of George Zimmerman when he felt blacks were slaughtering white people all day. I think for many people when you see the ‘take back our country’ rhetoric a lot of them fantasize about returning their country to the land of sweet tea, non-uppity blacks, confederate flags, and utter respect and unquestioning submission to a white conservative president.
They fantasize about it and there’s some small part to some of them that imagines taking that fight to a physical stand-off.
I’ve already seen a few, “Rematch?” comments regarding the fight now against the confederate flag. Implying that they’re ready for another North vs. South battle to settle things once and for all. These are the sorts of people that are growing in number and stock-piling guns and that’s terrifying.
Doofus, you absolutely killed it with your comments today. Your refreshing thoughts are a pleasure to read, so please share them as much as possible.
Kitten, u r smart. I love your witty one-liners more than I can say, but I enjoy your CB presence the most when sh*t starts to get real. That’s when you whip out the stone-cold logic and take us all to church, so to speak. Your open-mindedness, eloquence, and passion make me oh so happy. Never change.
Basically, thank you both for such a great exchange.
Thanks Shambles, I always enjoy reading your posts, too.
and isn’t Kitten THE BOMB? *swoon*
ETA: I’d like to thank everyone, too, for sharing such great ideas and commentary. You know who you are…
doofus, just stop with the blanket statements about ‘The President can’t do his job because of the racist people’. This is utter bs. He is the most powerful person in the world, he can do practically anything he wants. He can stop or start anything he wants by virtue of vetos or executive orders. Quit talking in such blanket terms, some of us readers get tired of the smug preaching.
Kitten, with all due respect, you make such sweeping broad statements about ‘whites’ and their agendas, i.e. taking back the country, not being powerful like Obama, being afraid of ‘change’, etc., etc. You may want to temper that once in a while with a ‘just my opinion’, otherwise you sound like a smug know it all. Frankly you sound like the proverbial ‘reverse racist’. Why do you have such a chip about white people? Why do you assume white people all think and act alike? I’m just curious.
Eternal side eye, I enjoyed your long post. Intelligent and thought-provoking, and, prefaced by “I think’ and ‘I believe’, which goes a long way towards non-preachy, non ‘know it all’ commentary. 🙂 I agree that there are many more racist ruminator time bombs like Dylan Roof out there. It is too bad that mental health care is not more of a priority in this country, but does he seem like the type who would seek it out? I also believe that outright gun prohibition will not keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and/or crazy element. This seems obvious to me, criminals don’t follow the rules. Our government needs to strengthen and enforce our current gun laws to make it harder for the wrong people to get guns. Anyway, I liked your post.
beanie, mental health? Is this application of mental illness applied to all terrorists as cause of actions, including the Boston Bombers, or just Roof? There has been no official diagnosis of any mental illness. I would agree that he likely sees himself as a disenfranchised person, who places blame for his circumstances on an easy scapegoat, kicking down the line of society’s social strata. But the rantings and thought process that drove him online, are they really any different than the propaganda directed at guys his age, online, by ISIS for recruitment? He was angry and found a way to direct this anger, with purpose. We can extrapolate even further, that to a large degree, all criminals who may feel left out of the dream are mentally ill.
As to guns: people should have the right to own them, but they should all be registered like cars, with testing proceeding license and use.
“doofus, just stop with the blanket statements about ‘The President can’t do his job because of the racist people’.”
that’s not at all what I said. I was speaking specifically about him addressing race relations. for the people who say “he’s making worse”, I have yet to see a concrete example of how he’s made it worse. (apparently, just BEING black is “making it worse”.) if he even MENTIONS anything regarding race, he’s “stoking the flames”. if he even tries to acknowledge that yes, racism still exists, he’s a “race-baiter”.
no, I stand by my position that the only thing these folks would accept is an outright declaration that he’s sorry for being black and that racism no longer exists in America. and let’s be clear, I’m not talking about ALL republicans, I’m talking about a group within that group and I think that was evident.
Doofus, thank you for clarifying your point, I agree with some of your assertions. Wow, I would really hope in this day and age that there is not a large demographic of people who think the President should not be the President based on his skin color. That is so completely backwards and foreign to me personally. I see and hear people disagreeing with him because he is a democrat. Anyway, thanks for your reply.
The President’s use of the N word brings attention to what this is about pure racism. WTF show reaches a demographic of people who are young enough and open enough to affect change within themselves and others. Obama has always tried new avenues of reaching people. . The President is right about racism. There are black , white , Asian , latino people who are racist. Racism exists. Black people have been affected by it the most. As young black woman coming to this country and living here and accomplishing a lot ,,, i still get judged on color which really sad and i tend to ignore because even the mention of racism makes people uncomfortable but the reality of it is racism exists, and will be around for a long time unless people start teaching their children something different .
Well considering Marc Maron’s Louis CK interview is considered the best podcast episode of all time you are embarrassingly wrong.
It’s 2015, this is the present, and future, of political media appearances, whether you’re the president or another politician. Podcasts with names that might make some people embarrassed, or go ‘what’, Reddit interviews, etc. This is the way it is, it’s more than going on mainline radio or tv shows or traditional media. And it’s not just the Democrats who do this.
I remember when Gov. Clinton appeared on Arsenio Hall, and played (if not very well) the sax. The hand wringing that occurred.
In the overall scheme of things, appearing on a very popular podcast called WTF is hardly an embarrassment, for any politician.
A red herring refers to a device or diversion used to distract the onlooker from the original idea.
You mean that some people might have problems with the guest? And perhaps if that guest had been some other president they’d be less embarrassed?
He is a 21st Century President and I think that the mainstream press and their Sunday talk shows and the other talking heads are livid that he routinely bypasses them to use other forms of communication that is not filtered they way they do it. Me, never heard of this show, but younger people have and this form of communication by passes the fox, CBS, NBC etc. crowd to make a larger point and they are pissed off, so they trash him instead of listening to what he actually said.
@cr. i think people are hiding the fact that racism still exist. It’s happening from the day I was born and now racism still hear in 2015. So ” this is 2015″ nonsense is not going to work. I am tired of people saying saying this is 2015 and move on. Stope putting you head in the sand and wake up around you. Racism is still happening but not for too long. But what I will tell you is this. Even though prejudice is in existence, it is going to get better.
Remember when everyone was incensed that Harry Truman gave addresses from the White House on TV? Because they were. My grandfather used to tell me that he thought it was in poor taste for Truman to address the nation on a “low” medium like television. He said it with a smile and a shake of his head, always a little bemused at how much social mores changed in his lifetime.
So, let me get this straight. Obama using the N word to open up a discussion about racism, forget about it. Obama appearing on a podcast that has WTF in the title, OH HELL NO. Clutch the pearls. Let’s talk about THAT. Because, the embarrassment in that is so much more important than the racism in this country.
I’m all WTF over this comment.
I think this is another moment where our very intelligent president spoke about something he has a very unique knowledge and prospective on and we as a nation should listen with our full attention so we can grow, understand, evolve and heal.
But of course the news media would rather pick apart one word, that I admit to hate hearing, but was important in context sadly.
Totally agree.
Your very intelligent president and I am the queen of England. Both laughable statements.
How is he unintelligent? Just because you disagree with some of his views/actions doesn’t mean he has a low IQ. Hater.
So somehow, the President–a constitutional law scholar and Harvard grad–is actually stupid.
He must not have been smart enough to have gotten to such scholastic heights on his wits–is that what you’re saying?
Oh. Because he’s black.
I see.
You don’t have to agree with his policies but there is no debating or questioning that president Obama is extremely intelligent. like him or not, agree or disagree but to say he isn’t intelligent just makes you look foolish.
I am black also but I am not American. I am not foolish. It didnt take long for you to judge me. That makes you look foolish. I have listened to your president a lot of years so I am able to decide if I think he is highly intelligent. He is smart but most of all he is charismatic and speaks what he knows people want to hear.
I think it is quite difficult for anyone to argue that he is not academically intelligent, regardless of your political views.
“I am black also but I am not American. I am not foolish. It didnt take long for you to judge me. ”
You post as ‘guest’ and use the phrase ‘your president’ which is a phrase often used by Americans who don’t really like him and didn’t vote for him. So yes, you’re quickly judged.
That’s no way to speak to the queen of England!
Well then, I am black and British, just so you know, which literally has nothing to do with anything but what you say is foolish. The man is a Harvard graduate and a Professor of Constitutional Law and a Harvard Law Journal Editor or Reviewer not sure which, but one of them.These things are factual. They prove his intelligence and academic ability. You cant decide someone’s intelligence based this that you actually sat down and typed and which is foolish.
” have listened to your president a lot of years so I am able to decide if I think he is highly intelligent. He is smart but most of all he is charismatic and speaks what he knows people want to hear.
Wait, the Queen of England is black?
guest – you are conflating intelligence with political dissimulation, which is, if you’ll forgive me, not very intelligent of you, you know? It’s also ironic, because the very last thing Obama is doing in this interview, using this word, is dissimulating.
If you’re tired of politicians using deceitful language to obscure the realities of their policies, fair enough. So am I. But you know, just say so. Don’t call people stupid when they very clearly aren’t.
@sixer, “If you’re tired of politicians using deceitful language to obscure the realities of their policies, fair enough. So am I.”
So am I. That includes nuke negotiations with Iran as their Parliament is calling for death to America. Makes sense to give them nuke capabilities right? Or how about the huge trade deal being pushed as we speak. Lots of secrecy surrounding that gem which once again has the American people being told it has to pass so we can know what’s in it. Hmmm where have I heard that before? Or not making funding available to protect us against an EMP attack which experts are increasingly warning us about. Everything will stop in that event. Everything. Or how about the hacking China pulled off gaining the personal information of millions of federal employees and even those who applied for jobs. China, Russia, Iran and North Korea all are running rampant in the cyber world. Having no concrete plan to fight ISIS which is marching along leaving a very bloody path in it’s wake. These are some of the issues I find very troubling. Distractions, it’s all about distractions. And they’re working.
Nicolette, so paying attention to the consequences of racism on US citizens is a ‘distraction’?
I don’t disagree with your assessment that the specifics of the trade deal should be known to citizens. But that is a separate issue of concern.
The hacking is a byproduct of intentional backdoor entries for NSA-spying by the US government, itself. They talk a good game about security, but make it easy for hacking, and this is not a new development. This has been carried forth from Cheney’s presidency. I never liked Obama’s continuation on this policy.
You named a number of different issues here, which means that you can focus your attention on more than one issue at a time. If Obama can accomplish a good thing for the country, amongst the other mixed bag of things, shouldn’t that be cause for relief?
@Nicolette – TTIP (or whatever the acronym you’re using for it stateside) aside, I fear we do not agree politically on any issues at all! But I think we can agree that all politicians, of every stripe, rarely tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
However, you are rather hijacking my comment to deflect from the issue at hand, which is a discussion of your president’s words about racism in your country. And you know, that’s a bit unfair. Because the very last thing he did, as I said above, was use weasel or deflecting words. The *whole point* of this conversation is that, for once, a politician DID NOT DO THAT.
Fair play to Obama, I say.
@Nicolette: I agree with you about the trade agreement. But the rest of your examples are more of the ‘truthful without being accurate’ type. And missing a lot of background info and context. And frankly seems like information that shows up as talking points on sites like WND to frighten their readers. So, distractions of their own type.
“They talk a good game about security, but make it easy for hacking, and this is not a new development. This has been carried forth from Cheney’s presidency. I never liked Obama’s continuation on this policy.”
‘Cheney’s presidency’
That is some damn brilliant shade right there. Hell the whole comment is some brilliant shade. Well done, Kiddo.
@sixer, wasn’t trying to hijack your comment. If anything we can agree to disagree, you have your opinions and I have mine. Personally I’m tired of Washington in general. Right, left, liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican. The part of your comment I referenced was what stood out to me. That’s all. We all should be able to come here and express our views whether agreed upon or not. Tolerance seems to be only for shared views many times here and if someone says something different the pile on begins. As I said I am respectful of differing views, and don’t insult those on here that I don’t agree with ever. I ask for the same in return.
@laura, if someone like *guest*, who is obviously smarter than President Obama and is the Queen of England, says the Queen of England is black, then she’s black.
While we are on the subject of heads of state…England is not the UK. The UK is three countries and a Province. The queen is queen of the UK ( and various ex Empire countries). I wish she wasn’t, but continually seeing reference to England is annoying.
The same people screaming about President Obama using that word (in context!) are the same ones who forward emails calling him that and much worse. They can all spare me their phony outrage. Everyone who listened to that clip and cared more about his word usage than the point he was making is part of the problem.
+1000!!
Yes! You are soo right!!
The point is that IT SHOULD make you uncomfortable. But that the use of the word in public is not the threshold of detecting racism; that is goes so MUCH DEEPER than that. Uttering the word out loud in that context demonstrates the balls to finally broach the subject head on and get your attention. Obama has had to toe the line all through his presidency because people blame him for racism in this country, which is contrary to any sane analysis.
He has no future campaign to BS up to, so he’s putting it out there. To which I say, good for him.
If not now, then when?
Great comment. But as always, the press is using this as a deflection from the real issues, which clearly they don’t want to deal with and that is racism and its devastating effects, even now in the 21st century. They now can flay the President and avoid talking about the reason for the deaths in Charleston (and elsewhere) and pretend we are in a post-racial era, whatever the hell that is.
Context is everything and that part is lost on those who would rather call him a “rapper” than understand what he meant.
Yeah I’ve been struggling with this. As an African American I hate hearing the N-word used casually by rappers and people of color and of course I’m irked and disgusted by whites that try to co opt the word, and worst of all is the traditional racist slur because it’s so hateful.
I listened to the entire interview without knowing he said it and it definitely shocked me to hear the president use it but in context of the conversation it had power. He was really trying to be frank and real. I have respect for that even if I was taken aback by it.
Agree. It made the point. He wasn’t calling someone the n word, he was pointing out that we can’t say Good job, that’s fixed! just because it’s no longer acceptable to say it in public while we have these obvious other issues out the wazoo.
What really got me mad was that no one seems to make a fuss when rappers use the word repeatedly – but when the POTUS uses it to exemplify the very much alive and kicking racism that we can all see exercised in dramatic fashion all too often (police shooting or Charleston anyone?) – well then, let the pearl clutching begin.
Like I said before, when he finishes his term, please send him to Canada where we could certainly use an intelligent, articulate, decent man for the premier job….
So true. American media is acting like thirteen year-olds who heard the word vagina, it is kind of weird. They are reacting to one word but nobody is actually trying to understand what he is saying. I am not American but he is obviously not using it as an insult, he is trying to explain n-word is not the only problem USA has and he is spot on.
Plus, I kind of agree with others that he no longer has to hide how he’s really feeling about things, or censor himself the way he did for six+ years. His speech after the Charleston terrorist massacre was chock full of WTFs and F-Us that he could not have gotten away with in the past (because wasn’t he supposed to be Oh-so-post-racial and and hint of culture coming from him was a threat to the fabric, aka white sheets, of our society).
School those who need to be schooled Obama. Yes.
Oh please. I don’t look to a politician to ‘school’ me.
words are never bad by themselves its about the context and the intention. if you yell it at a black person in the street its bad, if you are using it to illustrate racist language its not.
i have seen it in university and it seems to get worse and worse nowadays that even if you quote racist texts you should never say racist words. but that totally tones them down. the shock value is a big part of understanding.
we are seeing more and more of students trying to shut down disussions in university, here is an example of feminists trying to shut down another feminist:
http://jezebel.com/feminist-students-protest-feminist-prof-for-writing-abo-1707714321
so Obama used it to illustrate racist language and i feel its way more powerful like that if he had said “the n-word” which is such a weird thing anyway, its still saying it but avoiding the responsibility of saying it.
to make it clear nobody shouted “THE N-WORD” i am quiet sure of that. Obama is merely quoting.
I currently practice labor law and when dealing with discipline of employees or employers for using such words, I receive documentation or memos with the words left out or abbreviated or “the n-word” or “the f-word”, which are pretty much useless to me. We need to use the actual word in court to show what the person said or did, how shocking and inappropriate and, at times, illegal it was.
@Lilac, when my students use such words , f-words or so, and I fill in a disciplinary form, so that the school board actually knows what happened and can decide on how to punish the kid, we write down the actual word /phrase / expression. I’ve already send messages to parents saying things likes: Your son / daughter told the colleague / teacher : f*** off .. or whatever they said.
Don’t understand how can it be wrong if it’s to show what a kid did wrong…
Must’ve missed where people freaked out. All I saw were headlines referring to it as ‘honest’ and ‘frank’. And in the comments people referred to people freaking out much like this article but again, all I saw were neutral to positive reactions.
I missed the freak out too. I thought fox news would go crazy they didn’t. I thought it would be the lead story on every show it wasn’t.
My racist relative pretty much had a breakdown yesterday spamming everyone in her email address book about it with crap forwarded to her from commentators complaining about it being okay for Obama but not them to say it
Hain’t racist relatives the best?
*eyeroll* He wasn’t Lying, and the subsequent FauxNews Outrage hissy pretty much proves the Point, Is almost Like Nitpicking on the word their privileged asses can’t say when the CONTENT OF WHAT HE SAID touches right upon their actual bread and butter: Their implicit attitudes and fog whistles and polices they are advancing when it relates to PoC
That Word and The Meaning behind it and how it used to and continues to be used by some people SHOULD Make good people Uncomfortable
Hum. Ok, so, my country is, I believe, much less pc than America. So, I cut Obama some slack because I find the point he was making called for a practical example. I would condone him in this case even if he were caucasian.
What I do dislike so very much, instead, is how every pc conscious, “evolved” person in the world always runs to the defence of the latest “lovable” celebrity/politician whilst being the first to bash others who make the same misuse of a word, especially if they are white.
The context rule must work for everybody, then, otherwise it all becomes another example of latent racism: “They are allowed to use that language, you see? Even when joking, even when using the ‘slave’ word improperly (Mindy Kalin reference)… because…”.
Equality must also relate to the way we approach language tainted by negative meanings and imaginery.
I do not find this particular case offensive, just making a point 🙂
Who cares what Mindy had to say about a wedding? It’s not apples to apples. Discussing and saying the N-word in the context of racism, is using the term, not as a metaphor, but a literal evaluation of the term in the context of how it used hatefully and where it stands in contrast to larger issues surrounding the existence and persistence of racism. He didn’t call people N-s, or compare people to N-s. These are distinctively different usages. And I say this as someone who didn’t freakout over Mindy’s usage of the word, ‘slaves’. You seem to want to convert the discussion into a PC slamming argument.
You’re right, mine is a point on politically correctness rather than on racial slur (although, in Italy “slave” can also be often associated to people of ethnicity other than caucasian, and therefore to me it is a racially sensitive word), because in this case I find it impossible to divide the two issues.
The very fact that everyone is clutching their pearls and asking why it is okay for him to say it and not them only serves to illustrate his point.
The man has had to preside over 7 mas shootings in 7 years. As Kaiser said, he sick and tired of having this discussion to a country that is tone deaf (apparently) to a rational discussion on gun control due to having a bizarre obsessive love affair with the gun lobby. It literally doesn’t matter how many innocent are gunned down, not even if they are CHILDREN, without someone suggesting that if only there were way more guns in people’s hands, this would stop happening. The NRA is so paranoid, they encouraged people to believe it had been staged in order to support the idea that the government was about to march into everyone’s houses to forcibly take their guns away. And people BELIEVE it.
How do you fight that kind of insanity?
You’re so right. As an American, I will never understand the obsession with the whole “right to bear arms” issue. People blindly defend the Constitution and somehow forget it should be a living, breathing document that changes with the times. The fact is that countries with stricter gun control see less gun violence. PERIOD.
The same people do not defend the constitution when it comes to the right of privacy: That they can let slide in the name of fighting terrorism or other bogeymen.
You don’t. People are holding onto their stupidity as if it was the only thing in the world that matters to them. I hear it every single day via the idiots who worship at the altar of Fox News, that President Obama is trying to start a race war so he will have an excuse to barge into everyone’s homes and confiscate their guns, and declare martial law so he can cancel the 2016 elections and set himself up as dictator for life. All you can do is laugh in their faces.
Statistics over the last years have shown that most Americans support gun control in some form, so it’s not “people obsessed with the gun lobby.” It’s the actual gun lobby itself that’s a problem, and the politicians who are beholden to it because of campaign donations. I forget after which shooting it was (***which is the saddest thing I have ever written/said in my life***), but after one of the mass shootings (everything is horrible) there was overwhelming popular support for gun regulation, but the politicians wouldn’t do it because too many of them can’t afford to lose NRA dollars for their campaigns. I think most people are sensible about most things, it’s just the loud, shouting minority that makes us all look stupid. That, and our lame politicians who care more about reelection than our safety.
The good thing is even with those campaign dollars politicians are seeing a passionate and angry shift against them for not being able to introduce effective gun legislation. Much the same way the confederate flag was ignored as an issue until it became a symbol for a mad man’s actions guns were ignored till politicians were told to return campaign dollars donated to them by ordinary citizens and faced members of their home state publicly and loudly challenging their inaction.
All I can think sometimes is if this will be the last time we get close to even having semi-frank open and honest conversations about race. Obama being a black man gave him a perspective that I haven’t seen or heard in this country. For a man in the highest levels of our government, an intelligent well spoken man who uses common sense to have his fellow politicians gleefully forwarding emails with watermelons at the White House and insulting him and his wife for their African heritage said something about our country.
It’s one of those situations where this true discussion may never be had in such graphic context again. Because with Obama it can not be pushed to the side or misrepresented (Roof shot Christians according to Fox News, not Blacks) as it would be with a white politician regardless of gender. It’s an interesting conundrum, I’m going to miss Obama.
Open and honest race conversations can continue after Obama if we want them to.
GMAFB. The people whose drawers are all in a twist are the same people who call President Obama the n-word behind his back every damn day. You can take that to the bank.
This… this is sadly accurate.
It’s an outrage that “He can say it in the light of day, but I can’t”, is what it boils down to.
Kiddo, that is just your opinion, not necessarily factual. I doubt everyone is that childish. I know I’m not.
Beanie, it doesn’t apply in EVERY SINGLE CASE, but there is a pervasiveness, which supports this statement. I’m not about to list every caveat.
Do you want to use the word, and if so, why?
BTW, Your arguments might have a greater impact throughout the forum, if you resorted to less ad hominem (like calling people smug, and so on) and MERELY stating your own opinion, perhaps with your own disclaimer or disclosure.
No need to list every caveat. I don’t agree with your opinion, at all, posited in the form of a fact. Yes, there are bigots. As many as to be a driving force in what the President can or can’t accomplish? Well we disagree. My comments include commentary on how some people on this forum can grate because they don’t seem to discuss so much as lecture as if opinion were fact. Those comments aren’t an ad hominem attack, they are part of my opinion. If I were lecturing in a know it all way, i.e speaking as if opinion were fact in a somewhat forceful, somewhat demeaning way and directed to a large group of people, (and, again, with my opinion positing as fact) I would hope to be called out on it. Opinions are just opinions, not facts. A dose of humility can be a good thing. As for my comments having an impact, I know they do. They probably don’t change attitudes however. That is okay with me. I clearly state that my comments are my opinion only. Lastly, I never said I wanted to use the word. What I said was that I was okay with the President using the word in the context he did. In hindsight it certainly has instigated an interesting dialogue.
No one here. in THIS THREAD, said anything about what he could or couldn’t accomplish. OP QUOTE:
“The people whose drawers are all in a twist are the same people who call President Obama the n-word behind his back every damn day. You can take that to the bank. ” To which I replied:
“It’s an outrage that “He can say it in the light of day, but I can’t”, is what it boils down to. ” which had to do with SOME people who were upset that he uttered the word at all. Given that the context was not about what he could or couldn’t accomplish, and that he used the word as a point of reference in overt racism versus hidden racism, who else would be upset with this use, in the way in which it was stated? That was what I replied to. I don’t care whether you agree or not, but there are IN FACT people who take issue because they are racist. That doesn’t include everyone. But most people understood that his use was not intended to cause harm.
When you call someone ‘smug’ or any other pejorative name, you are attacking character, instead of arguing a salient point. That is an ad hominem attack and a direct one at a specific person. An alternative to a direct insult, is explaining how their opinion wasn’t/isn’t fair to large a swath of people. I’m just pointing out the difference.
Just so we are clear, I already responded to doofus who was the person who talked about the Prez and who makes his job more difficult (ie people who think a black man should not be in office) earlier in the thread. So it WAS said. They explained their side a bit more and I happen to agree with some of it. No need to be thread monitor, I can keep track. What I brought up with YOU was your comment about people ‘being outraged cause they couldn’t say the n word but Obama can’. Are we clear now? And then I said that ‘that would be a childish way of looking at it’. Meaning that to think ‘Why can he say it and not me?’ sounds like a petulant child. I like to give most adults I hang with more credit than that. I know what ad hominem means, thank you. And I respond, If you really want someone to listen to you, don’t you think how you present your opinion matters? To say that someone is speaking in a smug manner is not a character attack, it is a comment on how that person is speaking in that moment and generalizing about a large group of people as if their OPINION about said people was FACT. That comes across as smug and holier than thou and they may want to check it if they want people to listen, especially persons like myself with an open mind who will hear and ponder both sides, if I don’t get a one sided lecture slash slam fest on the other side. And by the way, plenty of people on here go into outright name calling mode when talking to a reader who has a different opinion. (see debbie and guest among others). Okay, over and out.
Probably not even behind his back on the part of many of them.
I think people are, as usual, being overtly sensitive and will take this out of context, and eventually put it on the pile of “reasons to hate/despise Obama”.
About the “N” word, itself, I think it should really be erradicated. I think nobody should use it, not us black people, not white, no one. It won’t erradicate Racism, but it will help.
In south africa, one of the things I have learned while living there, is that there is a word that is NOT ALLOWED to be spoken, often referred simply as “the K word”. It is extremely offensive for someone to use it, being that it targets mostly “coloured” (This is what mixed people are called in SA) people and black people. If a white person uses that derogatory term to refer to one person of said ethnicity, it is a BIG deal. you wouldn’t dream of saying the word outloud.
I think this is what’s missing in America. Have absolute disgust over a simple word that was often used during horrible times and be offended if anyone of any race actually says it. Before that happens, I think that no Black person can really complain about white people or anyone saying it if they say it themselves. It is not a word that should be used AT ALL. not between black people, not with people from other races.
End of story.
Please note that I am not saying that because some people say it others should too, but it’s hard to make a point if people say it in Rap songs and also, I’m black too, and I don’t appreciate if someone call’s me the “N” word.
Tbh America needs to do a lot more to fix its issues with race and it’s treatment of race before they start focusing on how the word is used amongst blacks.
I understand people not liking the use of the word, I don’t use it myself, but I disagree that it’s something holding back the progression of positive racial changes. Blacks attempted to reappropriate the word from a culture that still has the names of famous slave owners on its public streets and universities. A culture that decided you can not lower a flag associated with slavery without legislative intervention even after the massacre of 9 black individuals in a church.
It was a small swipe of power that amazingly enough has become such a sticking point because even then white people pout and wish to use it again. What good is banning a word to be spoken when the people who mean it most hatefully will never speak of aloud but will pump you full of bullets over it? People gasp over a white person using the n-word but are utterly indifferent to or find excuses for why an adult white man got put his knee into a black girl’s bikini-clad back and push her face into the dirt. A culture that has seen multiple shootings of unarmed black individuals dismissed as necessary since they ‘charged’ the police till a videotape of one of these incidents was secretly filmed and the police lies were concrete.
Till we get to that point we’re doing cosmetic work on a gaping wound when it comes to our discussion of the word – and that’s the point Obama was trying to make. We’ve outlawed a word in polite conversation but haven’t stopped treating people like that word in the same polite conversation.
This +10000000000
Thank you for this. I thought that president Obama used the word, saying that *not using it to be polite*, does not mean racism is over. Doesn’t his paragraph speak of the 200-300 years of history and culture that institutionalizes, and has structured racism into our society? Those are our major problems. Who isn’t reading? Why aren’t we talking about those things?
Is this just FOX news, or do the southern states have the more provocative take on this?
Wow. Eternal claps to you.
cant believe how some people are so naive in these comments — others are right on target. This isn’t really a news story and I don’t find it a big deal. What I find a big deal is that people need to move on– majority of people and I mean most are not racist or so not even know what it is, everyone I know wants to be black. I have teenagers– these boys idolize the black culture and the horrid rap music (not all settle down but as a mom I listen to those lyrics and every other word is about smokin up, a pu**y and n***a this and that makes me sick BUT it’s a part of life) I talk to my boys and tell them over and over about that N word– it’s a bad word. If you have teens infiltrate the teen world and thro friends school etc etc. 99% of these kids walk talk dress you name it– it’s the black culture. I don’t blame them the culture is cool as hell — I’m just sayin it warrants lots of conversations even with kids about what they hear see and do. I love people never looked at color or culture– if I did it only made my relationships more interesting and fascinating with them. I judge people on how they act – period. I’m pretty sure most people do that too– well I can only hope.
I am not a fan of Obama, full disclosure.
I don’t care the context, can we not use this word at all anymore? You can’t make the word ok. I cringe when a popular song comes on the radio and it uses the word instead of coffee. Absolutely cringe.
‘I don’t care the context’
That’s the issue. People disingenuously care about hearing the word come out of a black mouth than about the fact that black people are being treated as such. But, they wouldn’t admit that. You see this every time someone carps on about ‘double standards’ and rap music’. I see people being incensed over the president using the word once while making no comment about the fact that he and his family have called that non-stop since before they even moved into the White House. That’s his point.
Madly, I don’t think you can decide that no one can use this word anymore. And ignoring context is akin to burying your head in the sand, which was the point he was trying to make. Just because people may not use it doesn’t mean racism doesn’t exist. President Obama didn’t do anything wrong or inappropriate by using the word in the context that he used it.
I’m not fond of the word, but as a white woman, it’s not really my place to tell a black man who actively experiences racism what he can and cannot use in speech. The black community has more than earned the right to decide how, when, and if they use the word.
RIGHT ON, BARACK! I bet he’s thrilled his term is done. I can’t wait to see what he does After Whitehouse.
the only people who should have a say in who gets to say the n word is the black community. that’s it. it doesn’t matter who else is uncomfortable with the word: if you’re not black, your feelings are completely irrelevant. this was a word used against the black community and they are the ones who determine on how to take it back. there certainly isn’t a concensus amonst: some say yes, others (i think like spike lee?) say no. but what’s important is that it’s THEIR discussion, not ours.
+1,000,000
Amen.
Disagree.
Absolutely laughable to make the pres’s comment wholly about the N word – exchange it with white trash, and we still see the plantation economy.
Yesterday, after watching PBS’s broadcast on the subject, I went poking into white supremacist groups on the internet. SOOO offensive! There is no way that racism is over in the South. I cannot bring myself to even repeat what I read there, and the N word is just the top of the pile. Take down that battle flag for starters! In case someone is a little bit curious, here’s a deconstruction of white supremacist ideology: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_South
oh man you’re brave for going down that white hole… when i was very much younger, we used to troll white supremacists in their crazy chatrooms. my IT teacher was even involved. it was hilarious, but also very very scary.
Racism isn’t exclusive to the south, red necks live everywhere.
Oops, yes, I said something similar above although not nearly as eloquently. Thank you.
Ah sorry for repeating then, so many comments here to sift thru I suppose there will b some repeated sentiments 🙂
“if you’re not black, your feelings are completely irrelevant.” – that’s along the lines of white people who think “black lives don’t matter,” okay? Everyone’s feelings matter and everyone should have the right to share and talk about this subject.
That sentiment is actually not at all the same as saying black lives don’t matter and not what I’m saying at all. The issue here is about the autonomy of a community and how they get to present themselves, not what others wish for them to be or how others wish them to present themselves, Because there are already oppressive powers at play.
i should clarify, non black communities can discuss with black communities about various black matters, but non black communities don’t have a say in determining how the black community feels about their issues. You can certainly contribute, if they ask for it, and discussion between communities is more than encouraged – it’s how we grow and learn. but your feelings are secondary to theirs,especially when it’s about something that has been historically used to oppressed and dehumanise them.
Feelings matter and can be taken into consideration but I fully believe the people who have no experience with the history and pain of the word as well as (for some individuals) their attempt to claim it and give it a different context can’t really give an informed opinion. It’s much like the discussion of birth control and abortion, sure men can offer their opinions but they’ll never experience the many multitude of issues that come with an unwanted pregnancy. As such their opinions can offer a layer to the discussion but they have no real experience and can’t offer that depth.
When it comes to matters of race, white feelings ARE irrelevant. We are the majority. We have the power and control. We do not face individual or systemic oppression on a regular basis. Therefore, our place in the discussion is to LISTEN and not speak.
In other words: it’s not all about us.
Veronica, wow, oh my God.
Well said, loud noises.
Let’s not forget the rot formerly known as Meet the Press addressing gun control by interviewing five black guys–former gun offenders–expressing their regrets over their past actions. Shameless, shameful, cynical, shallow, dishonest, did I miss any? The nation has bought into the exceptionalism mythos so completely that so many people can’t see/refuse to acknowledge how fed up it is and how wretchedly it treats blacks. Don’t like hearing that? Just prove me wrong and you’ll never have to hear it again.
why does he get to say it and I don’t?
Fine, then. Use it all day and all night and just say that you were only quoting the president if it’s so damned important for you to call people n*****s. Happy?
Better question: Why do I have to be called that by people who aren’t black and you don’t?
Better question: Why are you pretending that you don’t know the difference when I’m certain that it has been explained to you?
Best question: What the hell is it to you?
+1000000000000000000000000. i repeated some of same ideas below, but you got to the point much better.
the question is why do you WANT to say it? you want to call out some n***as? you want to be down with your homies or something? is there some serious need for you to say it?
as paul mooney says “everybody wanna be a n***a, but nobody wants to be a n*”. what he means by that is people want to have all the perceived “cool things” of being black (which is problematic in itself: business has found they can make money off the backs of the black community and attempt to exploit it for as much as it can), but no one wants to actually be black and be what that means in the fullest sense of the word: persecuted at a higher rate, discrimintaed not just socially but institutionally, etc.. being a racial tourist will get no one anywhere and certainly do nothing to boulster any social justice or anti-racist causes.
thank you both for your responses…when I read TessD’s post, my first thought was “why would you WANT to say it?”
PS – Love Paul Mooney and he was spot on in that analysis.
Hmmm….I wonder if Mr. Obama would have used this word at the annual NAACP convention or the Image Awards, at a HBCU, at a rally where black people were the majority, the BET awards, at a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus, at a school in a predominantly black neighborhood or on a street corner in a black community, at a meeting with representatives of countries with large black populations, when he is asking black voters to support him because he has made everyone else angry, when he is asking black people for money, when he is addressing the unemployment rate for black Americans, or at a black church.
No, he wouldn’t have.
@anon321 actually in the context that he said it, yeah he might have.
Really? This is a thing? I mean, the man said it to make a point, and that he did. Because here we all are talking about how the President (gasp) used the “n” word when maybe what the discourse really needs to be about is why it’s okay to fly Confederate flags in public spaces or to pretend that racism is either dead or something other than what it is while innocent people are being gunned down on the streets and even in churches solely because of their color. It’s so much easier to vilify a word and/or morally legislate its use as a symbol of racism than it is to admit that the racial landscape underlying that word in this country is still pretty f-d up.
I think if you’re black, saying the n word is not racist in this context. If you’re white, you should never say it. So the president is being half racist.
Can I say something (hope it’s not offensive to anyone). I think society nowadays is more focused on being politically correct than actually correcting what’s wrong, Racism unfortunately exists, as well as xenophobia, discrimination (gender, religion, poltical choices, sexual orientation). People know they can’t say certain things because they’ll be criticized by others, but it doesn’t mean they don’t think about them. Probably, many people don’t say the n- word but it crosses their mind everytime they see a black person. The political correctness is good when allied to global education – educate people to change their mentalities, to accept differences in cultures, to be more understanding and caring. But I do believe that this political correct concept has lost its original goal – change people’s mentalities, and has become a cover, a disguise for racism… How can I explain it better.. hm… People say “look at me, I’m politically correct, so that means I’m not racist” when in fact they are racist behind all that politically correct behaviour. Is society being correct, or blatantly false, liar? I believe it’s the second choice, unfortunately..
Solanaceae, I don’t think so highly of myself, to EVER think something so hurtful to another human being. I’ve never felt that way, but I have been curious about bullies.
As long as your civil rights are not secured, neither are anyone’s. Addressing black people’s civil rights has been a great gift to all people who are different, or excluded for any reason. Peace.
But the problem that I’m trying to explain is that some people, instead of discussing things in a frank and honest way, which Obama did, (and he was trying to address black people’s rights , actually,I believe he tried to address all people’s rights throughout his 6 years of presidency) hide behind a veil of correctness and it’s harder to teach them and help them understand that it’s wrong…
*I don’t think highly of myself either, I’m just stating a fact I perceive on a daily basis… about anything… *
Interesting and thought provoking post. Thank you Solanaceae.
I have no issue with using the word in this context; anything else is ridiculous. However, as long as news outlets have to bleep the president because of fear of backlash, it doesn’t mean much.
I am, however, breathlessly waiting for those oceans to start to recede, like he promised.