Earlier this year, Jerry Seinfeld went on a pity tour about how kid these days just don’t understand good humor. Jerry said he stopped touring colleges because they’d call him out for non-politically correct jokes, and that drastically cramped his style. My position was that Jerry is free to tell whatever jokes he wishes, but obviously he is bothered by criticism. And if Jerry thinks it’s too difficult to adapt to PC audiences, maybe his jokes aren’t that funny at all. He followed up with another interview, in which he complained about “a creepy PC thing,” and again, he’s placing the blame for his dumb jokes elsewhere.
Sarah Silverman, who is at TIFF to promote her drama, I Smile Back, took a moment to put whiny comedians like Jerry in check. She thinks he’s acting like an old fart, basically:
Adapting to the the times: “To a degree, everyone’s going to be offended by something, so you can’t just decide on your material based on not offending anyone. But, I do think it’s important – as a comedian, as a human – to change with the times, to change with new information. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with changing with the times. I think it’s a sign of being old when you are put off by that. You have to listen to the college-aged because they lead the revolution.”
Her problem with college kids: “The thing that bums me out sometimes is, it’s a sea of iPhones, and because comedy is something where you’re connecting. It’s a bummer because you just end up saying your jokes to a sea of empty vessels through which Facebook expresses itself.”
[From Vanity Fair]
Sarah is 44 (vampire), and Jerry is 61. Both of them could feel pretty old on a college campus, but Sarah does pretty well at putting Jerry (and other crotchety male comedians like him) in his place. At least Louis CK didn’t complain when people called his SNL monologue offensive. He was being “edgy” for the sake of offense, which was kind of sad, but you don’t hear him shouting at people to get off his comedic lawn. Jerry’s just upset he can no longer plop down in a diner and have people fall over with laughter. Really though, this isn’t all about comedy. This is about how all of entertainment is — you adapt to people’s tastes or you get out. Entertainers sometimes forget that people want to be entertained, which is what’s going on with Jerry Seinfeld.
Photos courtesy of WENN
I’m not crazy about her, but I like that she’s not hopping on the everybody’s too PC bandwagon. Good for her.
I don’t like her. Ever since her Fresh Air interview she doesn’t come across as decent.
I don’t find her funny either so there’s that.
OH! And her character on MoS was awful and had no need to be there. That show tanked.
But she’s stated the obvious here so… good for her?
Curious, when did she change her mind? Because she is/was very much into “anti-PC” humor – that was practically her entire schtick before.
I could be wrong as I don’t watch her often, but aren’t there actual punchlines or irony to her jokes? She’s probably erred somewhere along the way but whenever i’ve seen her on tv, it seems like there might be an actual point to some of her jokes. That’s where I think she differs from simply being anti-PC. Mind you, I’ve only seen her on tv shows like Kimmel and Conan, so maybe the offensive stuff that is racist I haven’t seen. (Or maybe she doesn’t mind as much when people complain about her jokes?)
I didn’t understand the joke Amy Schumer made about Latin women at the MTV awards or the other joke about Latin men being rapists (or something along those lines), mainly because I didn’t get what the actual joke or punchline was supposed to be. That’s where I think anti-PC humour can go off the rails — when the audience doesn’t understand what point the comedian is trying to make or when the humour veers into some made up stereotype but there’s no subversion or irony going on.
I’ve never thought of Jerry Seinfeld as edgy or anything, so I don’t really get what he’s complaining about. Maybe he’s just not that funny in general, and he wants to blame college kids for not laughing at his jokes.
I don’t think she’s saying nobody should do that type of comedy, just that if you do it then whine about the inevitable negative reactions you need to get over yourself.
If you say controversial or offensive things, people are going to have some things to say in response. Maybe they won’t pay you to make an appearance, maybe they won’t attend your shows anymore, maybe they’ll decide that TV show is a bad idea. Maybe 90% of your audience will out-grow you and your career will falter. None of that is the same thing as being censored, and all the pathetic comedians who act like its a human rights violation every time someone doesn’t like one of their jokes need to grow a pair.
I think her thing was making fun of people who actually do those things. She made a caricature was of a horrible, self-centered person who actually thinks black face, etc. is appropriate – I don’t think she actually thinks those things are ok.
I don’t care for her either, never got the hype, nor do I think she is funny or clever. I don’t get why Michael Sheen is with her either.
Sarah just gets more beautiful. Vampire indeed.
Yeah- she’s all botoxy or has had a ton of facial treatments and its worked. She looks natural and beautiful.
Jerry’s time has come and gone. He’s not funny or relevant anymore. His show about cars and coffee and comedians isn’t funny at all.
I saw him last year and he was very funny. I do think, however, that his humor is geared toward the 80’s/90’s crowd who grew up with him. His TV show was all about being a single 20something, trying to date, having friends and jobs and such (to the extent it was about anything – ha!). His current standup is to those same people about the transition into marriage and then parenthood. The current standup would not be interesting or funny to college kids because they aren’t there yet. To the crowd of 40-55 year olds, it was hilarious.
I think he just needs to understand that he gets his humor from his life (always has) and his life doesn’t resonate with the college set any longer.
Is he really 61? Because I always thought he was younger than I am and I’m 59. Maybe his show was just geared to people a little younger than I am? The 40-55 year olds, as you said.
Weren’t the characters on his show in their mid to late 30s? George Costanza did not look like he was in his 20s at all…
Maybe Julia Louis Dreyfus looked like she could have been her 20s but the men looked so old (compared to a twenty-something).
I agree that Jerry’s heyday is over. He still coasts off the Seinfeld success and heavily relies on his famous friends to stay relevant. Listen to his interviews and, aside from personal “in” jokes and references to the past, what is new?
If Larry David had not turned down the Seinfeld show gig, would Jerry ever had had a career?
Cue anger and outrage from the anti-PC-humor crowd for being called old and irrelevant in 3…2…1.
She’s not wrong.
I know. I’m not really a fan of hers but I agree with everything she’s saying. Including the part about audiences not even really watching her but instead broadcasting the experience through social media.
“Including the part about audiences not even really watching her but instead broadcasting the experience through social media.”
it’s such a shame to see…last few times I’ve been at a show/concert, and EVERYONE has their phone up filming or taking pics, or they’re taking selfies at the show to let everyone know where they are and what they’re doing. and these are not the early 20-somethings that you’d think…we’re talking the 40 something crowd. I stood there thinking “why not just enjoy the music/band that you paid to see?!”
Same here. We went to see a band at a club. I’m short so i have trouble seeing over the crowd anyway, and nowadays you have to deal with all the taller people lifting up their phones to get a view of the band over the people in front of THEM, which totally blocks any remaining view. It’s incredibly rude. Plus, don’t all these audience members realize NOBODY wants to see their s****y blurry shaky staticky phone video of a concert???
I totally agree chaine, I go to a ton of concerts and get so sick of people recording the whole thing on their phone. My friend even did it at Tenacious D recently much to my chagrin. I get it, you’re excited and the show is awesome, but no crappy shaky phone video is going to trump the real experience, and as you said NOBODY wants to watch it after. They even had professionals filming the show too so I particularly didn’t get it. The same with pics at shows – I might snap one or two of the band if the light show/background is good but I do it very quickly to not bother the people behind me. There are real photographers there with really nice cameras to get killer pictures – mine from way in the back is not going to look nearly as good. Sometimes technology sucks.
I think the real issue in comedy now (and this will age my horribly) is social media. Years ago a comic could make an awful joke, that may get them reemed by an audience member/critic/local newspaper etc. but they could take the criticism and grow. Alot of comedy is throwing stuff out there and seeing what sticks.
Now if a comic says something offensive, there’s no space to process and re-think their routine. The internet whips into a frenzy and calls for boycotts and apologies, like a few weeks ago with that god awful Blue Ivy joke….people lost their damn minds. I’m glad that Sarah can adapt and change with the times, but she’s come out of a time where she was allowed to make mistakes and hone her craft.
Good points.
I found Sarah Silverman slightly obnoxious (maybe because she sometimes seemed cynical and over-the-top vulgar) until recently, when I saw a video of her on YouTube talking at a Bernie Sanders rally. She was funny and emotional at the same time and she transmitted her emotions to the audience. It’s a face of her I didn’t know and since then I’ve seen her differently.
I had similar feelings about her until I saw her episode of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. Now, it could just be that next to Seinfeld’s egotism and cynicism she came off well, but it seemed to me like she had heart, and I respected the way she didn’t just go along with some of his assumptions/comments.
Seriously. All the people complaining about comedy being too PC are just not admitting that they’re uncomfortable changing their style and uncomfortable trying new material and adapting.
There were jokes that would tear the roof off in the 30’s that you couldn’t tell in the 50’s. Likewise comedians in the 50’s who wouldn’t get as much attention and approval in the 80’s. Why do we have 80’s and 90’s based comedians complaining they can’t be offensive when there are SO many young, current comedians killing it.
Obviously we haven’t become a nation that doesn’t like to laugh but yucking it up about beating your wife or how black people scare you with their craazzzzy names just isn’t gonna do it anymore. Comedy is art and no art is stagnant. Either adapt or remain a moment in history but don’t whine college kids aren’t falling over themselves at the jokes they now know and accept actually do hurt and offend people. Especially the ‘easy’ targets.
Nicely said.
And I don’t even like Sarah all that much, butshe’s right about this.
The greats – George Carlin, Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor – managed to be explosively funny and to push the boundaries of contemporary humour without a minute’s whining.
AND THOSE COMICS ARE STILL FUNNY!!!
Case in point: George Carlin “Stuff” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
That is such a great point. Comedy evolves along with society, and that’s a GOOD thing.
Someone linked a looong, but fascinating article the last time this came up. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-not-funny/399335/
It’s an in-depth look at how comedians get booked for the college circuit. We are not talking about comedians getting rejected for racist/sexist jokes. We’re talking about rejecting comedians who mention race or sex … at all. Those who talked about race from their own personal experience were rejected because “we’re not sure how that’d play on campus”. A flamboyantly gay guy joking about his “snazzy black friend” was rejected for perpetuating stereotypes. The comedians who made the most bookings limited their topics to completely anodyne subjects: pets, camping, getting out of jury duty. They didn’t tell the jokes that get the most laughs at the comedy clubs.
If it were the college kids themselves saying “know what, that ain’t funny” and refusing to re-book someone, then it’d be fine. But the kids aren’t even getting exposed to it. They’re being sheltered from anything that might possibly offend (if misinterpreted).
This also ties into various other campus PC issues, like the “trigger warning” problem and subtle changes in how complaints are made/handled. Previously, a student might say “Professor X showed a racist film, he’s racist”. That’s a debatable charge, you can argue why the film is important and why it’s worth discussing. Nowadays the trend is for students to say “I was offended/upset” and that is not a debatable statement. The only acceptable response is “sorry, I’ll remove that material”.
Comedy evolves with society, definitely. But I’m not sure I want a society where “that offended me” is an instant trump card that shuts down all discussion. We should be able to differentiate between something really offensive, satire, satire that failed, and audience member who missed the joke. Just like we should be able to differentiate between something offensive, something offensive used for a legitimate teaching purpose and someone over-sensitive.
Excellent points Lucrezia and a discussion worth having. While I agree that some of the people whining about everything being too PC are simply annoyed that they can’t be their bigoted selves you have the other end of the spectrum where people get whipped into a frenzy for no reason other than they were looking for an excuse to get outraged. People who read a click-bait headline and won’t check out the source of the comment to see if what’s being reported is true or consider the context.
I’ve noticed too that the level of outrage seems to depend on how much ‘the accused’ is liked or reviled.
I am deeply uncomfortable with the mob like mentality that seems so pervasive on the Internet these days. But on the other hand I’m glad when controversial topics come up as some of the discussions can be quite elucidating.
im surprised because she has nothing else going on besides trying to push old buttons and trying to be offensive.
thank you.
I find it hard to believe that anything she just said could be found offensive. It was her opinion and it was perfectly logical. She also has a new movie coming out of sun dance to rave reviews so she’s not exactly ‘doing nothing’
I’m so tired of the term PC being coopted to fit personal agendas, but I do agree with her usage if it here. PC doesn’t mean inoffensive. It means not attacking groups more marginalized than your own to get a laugh. Sarah S. & Amy S. can make crude vagina jokes all day long and that’s not un-PC because they’re not capitalizing on prejudice against others with those jokes.
I never thought about comics dealing with the cell phone issue. But the sea of cell phones thing is sad in concerts. I was watching some youtube videos of U2’s new tour as they add in some deeper cuts on different nights. I viewed some great videos shot where you were zooming in on Bono on stage. They performed a lot on a lot catwalk connecting all across the floor. So he was literally there close to the fans. He’s singing a soulful song that moved me and there lined up in rows and rows to the catwalk where they are just inches or feet from Bono they have their eyes on their cell phone holding it up, a sea of them.
I appreciate youtube videos, but why so many people almost the whole concert and why when you have people around you doing it do you need to? You know they will be put up on youtube.
What happened to being in the moment, soaking up the performance and the feeling you get being in a venue filled with energy for the music by the other concert-goers.
What made me sadder was how does Bono, and other singers do it, pour their heart out on stage performing to a sea of cell phones? I guess they adjust and just look out across the arena a lot. . But that one video bummed me out because it was a ballad about his losing a loved one, in this case, his mother and was very poignant, yet euphoric, and he’s singing to cell phones. It ws utterly bizarre watching him inches from people and they are literally sticking up cell phones instead of looking at him right there in front of them, and one girl turned to do a selfie as he’s singing bent down near her.
It must drive comics crazy if it is getting worse with cell phones. You need to connect with your audience to feed off of.
Jayna, I have to agree with this and I have been guilty of it myself. Heck even before my cell phone, I always had my camera glued to my hip. I’m just one of those a-holes that has to take photos,videos of everything and everyone. One night I was out doing something (can’t remember now) and It hit me, I wasn’t actually living my life in the moment I was living the moment through my camera/iPhone screen. And it’s Just not the same. There I was not enjoying life “live”, I was only focused in on what I was shooting and not the whole wide “world” that was happening around me. Which meant I wasn’t actually enjoying it either. After that I decided no more. I am much more conscious of when I pull out my phone and what I waste my time on. The Same of course can be said with people spending all their time on their phone, instead of actually enjoying the company they are with. People seem to be more worried about checking social media or texting with someone else than what’s happening in front of them. Anytime I go out to eat I look around me and all I see are faces in phones.
Chris Rock also said the same thing as Seinfeld….and they have a point. See the Chrissy Tiegan thread and pretty much every internet website, forum, FB or social media timeline, etc. LOL
Silverman has a point too-again, it doesn’t have to be ‘pick a team’ either/or…Everything in the American mindset these days is as though you have only two options. And people assume if you aren’t on Team A (we’re the best), you must be on Team B (you suck). I’m American, btw. In this case, and most others, (b/c life is like that—-lots of gray area) it’s a little of each that constitutes the truth. Also, sorry but I don’t see much revolution leading in college kids today-Some are, sure…but so are other generations. It’s a mix but I do not look to the college age for guidance, that’s for sure….Silverman is right about the benefits/needs of updating your belief system and thinking constantly-but not always b/c ‘the masses said so’.
I totally agree with this. Everything is so polarized nowadays. It’s not ALL or nothing all the time. Yes we should be open to updating our belief systems but I also agree with Chris Rock about the danger of over-policing of humor. Like the Difficult People brouhaha recently. It’s not all black and white, There is such a thing as nuance.
Also I’ve got say BOTH Jerry Seinfeld and Sarah Sliverman are incredibly unfunny and boring af.
The thing is, some things aren’t funny anymore. I mean, people used to go to Bedlam to laugh at the poor inmates. Racial humor is still hilarious to me, but the way Chris Rock does it, not how a 1930’s crowd would enjoy a minstrel show. Seinfeld is pissed because he isn’t able to adapt. He’s still in the 1990s.
Seinfeld has never been about edgy humor or really anything offensive. I don’t get what he would say that would be offensive. I have seen a lot of comedy shows. Many racy, many edgy, many so not PC. His humor isn’t about being edgy and was definitely not offensive, at least that I remember. It’s more observational humor.
IKR? Which is why I wondered why Jerry Seinfeld was yammering about PC college campuses in the first place. It’s not like he was ever edgy and controversial to begin with.
I think as he gets older, the difference between Seinfeld the comic and Seinfeld the person is blurring, hence his anti-PC comments. Seinfeld the comic might not be edgy or offensive, but Seinfeld the person sure does reserve a rich white man’s right to say and think offensive things in his day-to-day life if he wants to.
It had nothing to do with Seinfeld being edgy or controversial. It was about the college students not finding him funny and saying so. In turn he was no longer getting hired for those shows, that Seinfeld went cry about the PC police.
His thing was the college students not finding him funny = them being overly sensitive. Instead of looking at himself and realizing that his brand of comedy didn’t connect today youth. He needs to come up with new material if his goal is to broaden his audience instead of blaming the “PC police”
Stay cool and edgy on your dinner date with Jerry Seinfeld, Sarah.
I’m not sure how Seinfeld became the center of this . He isn’t really offensive in his sets. Like his comedy or not, I don’t think he would lose fans for being un PC. My personal take is that he was complaining in general for comedy.
Not relevant but I’ve always wanted to say how cute her character was in wreck it Ralph. I love that movie!