Steven Avery’s attorney talks to Rolling Stone: ‘I’ve still got my suspicions’

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Another day, another crop of Making A Murderer stories. On the heels of Steven Avery filing yet another appeal, armed with a new legal team, more controversy has developed to possibly help or hinder Avery’s case.

Rolling Stone magazine interviewed Avery’s attorney, Jerry Buting, who hasn’t spoken since the documentary aired, about his concerns over the jury in Avery’s murder trial. He told the magazine, “I’ve still got my suspicions about whether something improper occurred during the deliberations.”

When asked about his suspicions, Buting said, “I suspected that there might’ve been some undue pressure put — either from within the jury room or outside the jury room — that might’ve affected the fairness of each individual juror’s deliberation. And one of the jurors who actually sat through the verdict has since, apparently — I have not spoken to him or her — but they came forward and spoke to the filmmakers and felt like they were intimidated and pressured to vote guilty, and that they really didn’t think he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and they really did think that the police had framed him.”

In the interview, Buting also discussed one of the jurors, who reportedly volunteered for the Manitowoc Sheriff’s Department. When asked why the juror was not dismissed, Buting recognized the issue and said, “Some of the observers or commentators have noted: ‘Well, why would you keep somebody like that on the jury’ What people don’t understand is that picking a jury is really — it’s not like you pick who you want. It’s a matter of eliminating who you don’t want.”

In Touch magazine spoke to some of the jurors on the case, who shared insider information about what happened in the jury room during deliberations. One juror told the magazine that they thought Teresa died from “Torture and rape. Then [Avery] shot her in the head. He cut her up and put her in a burn barrel.” This disclosure is important because there was no evidence of the rape and torture allowed in Avery’s trial – the information came from nephew Brendan Dassey’s confession and was part of prosecutor Ken Kratz’s pre-trial press conference.

According to New York criminal defense attorney Bruce Baron, this revelation could open the door to a new trial. He tells the magazine, “If a jury made its decision on incomplete, improper or withheld evidence then there are absolute grounds for a new trial. The jurors now may well be brought before an appellate review and ordered to describe whether they discussed certain inadmissible details they should not have brought into their deliberations.”

If tainted jury issues weren’t enough, on Wednesday night, Steven’s ex-girlfriend, Jodi Stachowski, was featured on an interview on HLN’s Nancy Grace show, where she called Avery “a monster” and said she believed he was guilty of the murder of Teresa Halbach. She continued to say that she lied to investigators in fear of her own safety and had received threatening letters from Steven after he was found guilty and incarcerated for the crime. Oh, and in the interest of equal time, here’s a short video detailing whom Avery suspects of the murder. And, for what it’s worth, Avery’s other ex-fiance, Sandra Greenman, believes he’s innocent.

The plot continues to thicken in this very complicated case. Since all of this new information is rising to the surface, could revisiting the events of that tragic night prove, without a reasonable doubt (this time) if Avery is truly guilty or innocent? Could Making A Murderer 2 be on the horizon?

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Photo credit: Netflix

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72 Responses to “Steven Avery’s attorney talks to Rolling Stone: ‘I’ve still got my suspicions’”

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  1. TrustMOnThis says:

    This is a gross trend. It makes the kartrashian shows look positively wholesome.

    • Spark says:

      Yeah, bringing awareness to the corruptions in the justice system- so TRASHY.

      • KWM says:

        I know so gross, to show how a system that was supposed to treat a person innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt can be such a bother to some people. I really hope those people never find themselves accused of anything. It is also so gross how it doesn’t matter what color you are in this country if you are poor and of the wrong side of the tracks you are guilty first and then have to try to prove your innocence, all while your court appointed lawyer is working against you.

        TrustMOnThis Making A Murderer may not be your cup a tea, but to turn a blind eye to the inadequacies of the justice system in this country is far from a gross trend.

      • Bettyrose says:

        Spark, it’s so complicated. Yes, bringing awareness is really important, but there is undoubtedly some element of gladiator sport here, with America’a white underclass being exploited and ridiculed, not to mention the fascination with the “mystery” element as though it were fiction and not about an actual tragic loss of life.

        ETA, I’m not referring to this site, where everyone has been respectful of the situation and not engaging in the mockery I’ve seen elsewhere.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        The system isn’t supposed to treat a person innocent until proven guilty. The jury is. That rule is intended to prevent a jury from assuming a person is guilty because that person was arrested and charged. It is perfectly fair for the prosecutor and investigators to believe the arrested/charged person is guilty. In fact, the person can’t be arrested/charged unless the prosecutor and investigators believe that person is guilty. It’s called probable cause. In order for an arrest to occur the state must have probable cause that a crime was committed in the relevant jurisdiction and that the crime was committed by the suspect.

      • Naya says:

        Perhaps she means the trend in which a film maker prepares an admittedly one sided story line which predictably leads to an audience game of “Clue” based on the tiny proportion of “evidence” they think they have. With so many Poirots on this case its a wonder it wasnt solved 20 minutes after the documentary trailer was released.

      • TheOtherMaria says:

        Actually Betty, if Avery were anything but white, this wouldn’t be nearly as poplar….

        ,

      • Bettyrose says:

        Theothermaria, I know. I believe that’s a huge part of the macabre fascination. They’re white, so it’s not racist to be sucked in by their misery, thus,we can revel in it. There are lots of powerful, important elements to this expose on our legal system, but it’s also part bloodsport.

    • Tourmaline says:

      Size Does Matter, love your post.

      • Size Does Matter says:

        Thanks, @Tourmaline. I’m a lawyer, too, with an undergraduate degree in criminal justice. Love your posts. Looks like you and I are pretty much in agreement on this case, but nobody wants to hear it. It is much more entertaining to speculate and cobble theories together.

      • La La Land says:

        Damn, I missed your interaction … can you please highlight what this is about? I do think both sides exude some irresponsibility and shadiness … but someone killed this young woman, and it wasn’t the police. Can you tell me what / who think could have done this? Thanks in advance 🙂

  2. Guest1 says:

    I’ll be right back. I’m just going to go to yesterday’s post & copy & paste all the comments here & save everybody time.

    • SnarkySnarkers says:

      LOL!!!! You win!

    • Arock says:

      so true.
      most of the time i cant read the comments on articles like this, it makes me want to throw my computer at a wall…..and its a gossip site. everyone who has every watched nancy grace is a lawyer and my brother-in-laws-best-friends-cousin-had-a-dog-who-knew-(fill in vocation, person, situation) has proof so there. it all becomes a “forest because of the trees scenario ” so fast.
      that said, has anyone read up on the prosecutions lawyers and interrogators? There has been a slew of pain addiction rehab/harassment/perjury issues. Ken Kurns was arrested-exploiting domestic abuse victims and witnesses, offering trial outcomes for sexual favors.

  3. aims says:

    The way the evidence was collected should had automatically given Steven a new trial. I think from the beginning to the end of this story it just screams injustice. I didn’t know one of the jurors was a volunteer for the police department. Why was he on the jury?

    I don’t know if he killed her. My problem has been and continues to be the abuse of power. The interrogation of the nephew was insane. They need to retry the case, throw out evidence that was questionably collected and have the trial on the other side of the state.

    • KWM says:

      And a jury member was married to a county clerk employee, the same clerks office who was basically blamed for mishandling of the vial of blood.

      I’ve said it before I don;t know if he is innocent, what I do know is the tenant of this country’s justice systems was it is better to free a guilty man than imprison an innocent man. Somewhere the burden of proof shifted from the state to the defendant.

      And don’e even get me started on the privatization of jails and what that has done to the justice system.

      • aims says:

        Yeah, the mishandling and gross misconduct here is mind blowing. It’s such an injustice. Also I’d like to add that the lead prosecutor had contact with an underage girl. It’s relevant because it shows his illegal behavior.

      • Tammy says:

        But Avery’s illegal behavior is not relevant? And last time I checked, it’s not against the law to serve on the jury if you are married to a county clerk employee. Lawyers and judges have to serve on juries in counties they practice… so that is not a problem.

        If Avery can establish in his appeal that the jury was unduly influenced by the press conference by the prosecutor where he outlined Dassey’s confession and they used information from the press conference to convict him (which wasn’t before them), then he should have a new trial on that alone.

        But going down a rabbit hole saying police planted evidence… no. The defense raised the argument about the blood at trial & it was rejected by the jury.

      • Pinky says:

        @KWN I’m sitting next to you.

    • AntiSocialButterfly says:

      If these tainted juror suppositions are accurate, why did the defense not exclude them when selecting/questioning jurors for bias /conflict of interest? Was this disclosed after the fact? Is it verified?

      • Size Does Matter says:

        There are two kinds of jury challenges: peremptory challenges and challenges for cause. Each side is given a limited number of peremptory challenges, for which no reason needs to be given, and unlimited challenges for cause. Challenges for cause can be things like, potential juror was related to victim, suspect, or witness, or potential juror’s family member was a victim of violent crime, or potential juror said he or she had mind already made up about guilt and it couldn’t be changed. You start striking from the beginning of the jury pool, and whoever is left once peremptory challenges have been used up, who can’t be challenged for cause, is who you get. The defense may have tried to strike these now questioned jurors for cause and the judge said no, which would be a point for appeal.

      • AntiSocialButterfly says:

        @Size,

        Thanks very much for the detailed response. Are potential jurors not required to disclose conflicts before the challenges?

      • Size Does Matter says:

        Certain basic information is always disclosed, such as name, age, address, occupation, employer, spouse’s name, spouse’s employer. Then an additional information may be provided through a more detailed questionnaire that is supplied by the prosecution and defense (usually both sides prepare a questionnaire and the judge approves the final combined/agreed version). The questionnaire that was used in Steve Avery’s case is available on Reddit but I have not looked at it. I would be very surprised if these juror connections were not known before the trial.

        I did read in a post conviction ruling also available on Reddit (where complaints about the jury should have been argued) that the defense had approved the jury. So either they didn’t care or didn’t know. What I don’t understand is why they didn’t ask for a change of venue to somewhere far far away from Manitowoc.

    • isabelle says:

      The last jury I sat on, a court worker was on the jury. Guess they get summons as well and are allowed to serve. Each side has a certain number of people they can dismiss. Don’t understand why the defense didn’t dismiss them right away? Even if there was some sort of sketchy setup, the defense could have let them go and one of the first questions usually asked is “where do wrk/volunteer”

      • Jag says:

        The defense lawyers have said that there were other people who needed to be removed more than the two people who did make it through jury selection. Had they been able to remove more, those two people would have been gone as well.

      • isabelle says:

        yeah the lawyers usually get to remove around 2-3 people each. So not a lot and they may have not known they had worked with the court people. Think one of the biggest mistakes a lawyer can make is cutting the right people and selecting the wrong people.

  4. Donna Martin says:

    If this guy is innocent he just spent most of his life incarcerated and I’m not sure how you recover from that

  5. Cindy says:

    I haven’t read yesterdays post yet, but I will go back. At the risk of being repetitive, does anyone else have a problem with the fact that Avery’s property was the last place she was seen? I watched the documentary and came away certain Avery was framed for the first crime, and that the second crime had a lot of prosecutor and police misconduct. What I don’t get is how teresa was murdered so close to the Avery property. Was someone lurking in the woods watching her photograph the car, and than nabbed her as she left? That seems so improbable/impossible. Thats the sticking point for me. The police involved are untrustworthy, as is the prosecutor. But what happened to this woman and how did she turn up dead so close Avery’s property?

    • Zaid says:

      It makes sense if somebody else that lives in the property did it. Other suspects are Avery’s brothers, his nephew Bobby Dassey and his sister’s husband.
      I incline more for Dassey and Tadych doing it, since they are each others alibi and another witness already discredit them.
      Also, Tadych had the same type of gun as Avery and tried to sell it a couple of days after the incident.
      Its just frustrating the investigators only focused on Avery.

    • AntiSocialButterfly says:

      It does seem that Occam’s Razor should apply here, rather than some multiple party conspirators. Last known location, automobile, bones, personal articles, rivet from jeans, etc., etc.

    • KWM says:

      Yes, but that alone should not be enough to send a man to jail for life. But that is basically what happened. I often thought Brandons older brother and his now step father made the most sense. They both saw here there, have history of violence with women and their alibi’s were that they drove by each other on the road. However if their alibi falls apart if you think the bus driver is the more credible witness in establishing a time line. And her timeline has Halbach still there taking pictures. Where the other 2 say she was gone by then.

      I have no idea if he is guilty, but what I do know is that because of the actions of the police department we will never know. With their target set on Avery they missed the opportunity to question so many other people. They were so set on Avery they were going to make sure they evidence lead to him.

      • Mimi says:

        I agree with a lot of what you said. It just seems to me that it gets harder and harder to prove a person’s involvement in a crime. Conspiracy theorists need nothing short of HD video footage of the crime being committed to believe in a suspect’s guilt. On the other hand, look what happened to Avery the first time around. He was convicted of rape with no evidence whatsoever. How are we supposed to trust the justice system when sh*t like that happens. The man served 18 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit. Teresa Halbach is a whole different story, though. I believe he is guilty. There was so much left out of the MAM documentary, it’s ridiculous. The blocked phone calls, the purchase of handcuffs and leg restraints, the fact that Teresa had expressed her reluctance to go to Avery’s home because of previous experiences. The whole thing is crazy…

      • Tammy says:

        @ Mimi… not true about the conviction of Avery for rape. While DNA evidence exonerated him years later, the police had very good reason to suspect him. He was out on bail for running a neighbor off the road with his pick up truck and holding her at gunpoint threatening to rape her. He also repeatedly ran naked in front of a deputy’s wife car… so at the time they looked towards Avery because of these facts. Keep in mind that 6 of those 18 years in prison were for a crime he did commit.. the holding a neighbor at gunpoint.

    • Cindy says:

      @mimi
      He purchased *handcuffs*? And *leg restraints*?
      And what blocked calls? If this is accurate…..well, if I was juror I would have voted guilty. Perhaps both things are true- Avery did it, *and* the police messed with the crime scene to make it a slam dunk. Man, truth really is stranger than fiction.

      • Lindsay says:

        The handcuffs and leg restraints were toys that could be easily escaped from/broken. They were covered in pink fur and there is no contact DNA from her on them or anywhere inside his house. She got blocked calls, no one has shown where they came from. He contacted her through her office just like he was supposed and just like others who lived on the property had.

      • Tourmaline says:

        His lawyer has admitted Avery *67d his calls to Teresa for “privacy”. That is not in dispute.

        Everything someone contacts/ touches is NOT automatically covered in their DNA. That is a misperception I have seen repeatedly in discussions of this case.

        He did it, and I have no reasonable doubt of that based only upon the evidence his lawyers did not contest. Could I spin far -fetched scenarios of him not doing it? Yeah. Beyond reasonable doubt does not mean beyond all doubt.

      • Jag says:

        The handcuffs and shackles had only Steven and Jodi – his girlfriend’s – DNA on it. Had the murder occurred like Brendan said it did, Teresa’s trying to escape would have left something on them.

        The phone calls did come from Steven’s phone. He may or may not have been making the calls.

        I do think Steven could have killed Teresa because the time line works for it. Bobby and Scott also could have killed her because the time line works in their favor as well, Scott tried to sell a .22, and Bobby had scratches on his back. The German man could have killed her because his wife was renting a house on her route within 5 miles and he was alone there that day, and she found clothes, a bloody weapon, and even what looked like human bones that the police didn’t investigate. Earl – Steven’s brother – could have killed her because he was there shooting rabbits that day – on the “golf cart” which later was alerted on by a cadaver dog, and he hid when police came to get his DNA. (Provided that his friend was away from him for long enough or he helped.) Even Charles/Chuckie – Steven’s brother – could have killed her because he lived on the road that she had to leave by, and he was known to stalk and harass women around that time. The ex-boyfriend had what looked like fingernail claw marks on his hand, inserted himself completely into the searching for Teresa, hacked into her phone messages, allegedly deleted phone messages, and he couldn’t provide an alibi or even say whether it was day or night the last time he saw her.

        I think it’s most likely that Steven killed Teresa, but with all of these other people being at the location at the time, or doing what they did, any of them could have killed her. Regardless of who did actually murder her, Avery and Dassey deserve new trials, in my opinion.

      • Betsy says:

        @tourmaline – wasn’t she alleged to have been tortured/raped for hours? I find it hard to believe that there would be zero DNA transfer in that case.

  6. Just finished watching the series and my mouth was hanging open at all the corruption involved in trying to frame this guy, TWICE!

  7. Asiyah says:

    No disrespect, but the title is misleading. It makes it sound like he’s saying he still has suspicions about Avery, as in he might have done it. Which is fine as he’s entitled to an opinion but that’s not what this article is about.

  8. Bobo says:

    Looking forward to comments from people who didn’t watch the documentary accusing people who watched the documentary of only getting one side of the story (as if this story wasn’t so ridiculous that it wouldn’t lead many people to investigate further).

    • marshmellow says:

      Does it really matter? Even people who have seen the documentary and did some internet research still only have a glimpse at the actual evidence, often filtered through the interpretation of an author who probably hasn’t directly observed the evidence either.

      It’s not like the DeFeo case where all the crime scene photos can be found online… It’s even worse if one believes that the evidence was faked, because then one doesn’t even know what evidence to trust.

      IMO, it’s all armchair investigating either way.

      • Kitten says:

        Exactly. Ugh.

        I finished watching it last night so I guess now my opinion is considered *valid*. Do I get an award or anything to honor my achievement?

      • Tammy White says:

        @ Kitten…has your opinion changed since watching the documentary? I’m genuinely curious.

      • Kitten says:

        @Tammy-Nope. I still remain firmly in the “undecided” camp. I’m really surprised how many people walked away from that series with the conclusion that he’s definitively innocent. The only thing that doc proved was how incredibly f*cked Avery (and his nephew even more so) got by what is clearly a broken justice system.

      • KWM says:

        Kitten me too, I walked away with wow I have no idea if he did it, but I do know because of how the police who weren’t even supposed to be involved with the case handled it we will never know.

      • Tammy says:

        @Kitten- a former prosecutor wrote a book about Avery who actually helped to exonerate him in the rape case but he poked holes in the defense’s case on the Halbach murder. The Innocent Killer: A True Story of a Wrongful Conviction and its Astonishing Aftermath. by Michael Greisbach.

        @KWM, the lead investigator on the Halbach case wasn’t involved in the investigation of the Beerstein rape.

        Avery’s best bet at a new trial is his appeal, he is challenging the search warrant conducted on his property and alleging juror misconduct. I haven’t read the appeal itself but I don’t think he is alleging police misconduct.

      • Careygloss says:

        To know what the documentary is about? Yeah. Kind of important to watch the documentary. Then you’d understand what it is we’re really supposed to be looking at here. Many of us have tried explaining that over the last couple of days. But if you want to keep imagining that we’re all just having fun playing Sherlock in the sandbox, go right ahead, I guess. Still misunderstanding the point. Of both the documentary and why people are upset over the case. 🙂

      • Jag says:

        Just want to mention that the crime scene photos and Dassey’s trial transcript, as well as transcripts of his interviews and some recordings, are all online.

        People are working to get Avery’s trial transcripts online as well. There is a sub Reddit for MaM where many people link to the information, and a woman just paid $6k to get copies of Avery’s full court documents sent to her.

      • Bobo says:

        @marshmellow “Investigate further” as in reading more about what the prosecution’s side is since they were under-represented in MaM (albeit by their own choice). Reading up on what legal and forensic experts have to say about how the case was handled instead of people like Nancy Grace. Not “investigate further” as in making theories and proclamations about what really happened and who killed Teresa.

        I’ve seen various opinions on Avery’s guilt from people who watched MaM. But almost everyone seems to agree that he and Dassey did not get a fair trial. It would be nice to discuss how and why the system failed without it getting twisted (by both people who have and haven’t watched MaM) into an argument over whether Avery is guilty or innocent. It’s frustrating.

        @Kitten You want an award for being less ignorant? It’s odd you’re offended by me thinking people should actually watch MaM before making criticisms and accusations about it and the people who watched it.

      • Betsy says:

        @Kitten – I think most of us who watched it are in the firmly undecided camp. He certainly may be guilty – he’s clearly no angel – but there was no blood or DNA in his bed or the garage. No fingerprints in her car. The car wasn’t crushed, and he was in the unique position to be able to do that! The sheriff calling in the plates before the car was found… So he may be guilty, but gosh, I wish they could have found the evidence that shows so.

    • Kip says:

      @bobo, Hehe bam yes great comment, so annoying in the other threads!

    • Jay says:

      Bingo.

  9. Chaucer says:

    Said it before, going to say it again. Do I think the guy did it? Yep. But that’s not how the justice system works. He never should have been convicted. He needs a new trial.

    • Careygloss says:

      YES. Everyone keeps whining that the documentary was trying to prove that Avery is innocent (because we all know that a documentary can do that, lol!), but that never occurred to me or my husband as we watched. The documentary’s purpose was to get the public to look at this case and see our criminal justice system for what it is. Rational, level-headed people aren’t going to claim Steven Avery’s innocence based on the doc. They’re going to see the floundering of the prosecution, the coerced interviews, the sensational media circus the prosecution propelled before the case went to trial, and cops caught in the act of lying. That’s why this story is rocking the nation. Because all of that goes a long way in getting a conviction, and doesn’t prove anything one way or the other. We shouldnt throw people in jail because of our feelings.

    • SpunkyMama says:

      Thank you! I watched the documentary and I got angry but not because I thought Steve Avery and his nephew were innocent but because the Justice system was so obviously abused here that you can’t help but draw the conclusion that they wanted to make sure this guy was put away for good.

      The part that got me was in the documentary, they aired actual press conference footage and in one of them, the DA assigned told the press that the county sheriff’s office were told to stay away from the investigation to remove any thoughts of impropriety, but who found the car keys in Steve’s bedroom, one of the sheriff’s officer.

      If he and Brendan are guilty then they are where they belong, but at the same time, I would never live in that town because the message is clear, if you piss off anyone affiliated with the sheriff’s office, you are going to jail!

  10. Careygloss says:

    Ugh. It’s amazing to me that so. Many. Of. You. Are missing the entire point. @kitten: you finally watched it. And you’ve finally come to the same conclusion as everyone else: whether he did it or not, no one knows. The point is that Manitowoc county did a LOT to try and secure a conviction, which is not how the system works. I’ve seen people get upset and try and say Avery is innocent, but I haven’t seen anyone say such here at celebitchy. Yes, you’re going to have a more informed opinion about the documentary now that you watched the documentary. That makes sense! Who knew? No, I’m fresh out of awards to give you. And no, this isn’t about “guessing” whether he did it or not. No, it’s not a game of “clue”. It’s about the misconduct of the DA office, the cops, and other officials in Manitowoc. @tammy: where in the world are you pulling all that info from? The idea that Avery chained the victim to the bed was from a COERCED interview from Brendan Dassey, in which the investigators literally fed him what they wanted to hear. There was no blood or bodily fluids found on the bed or in his home where that story supposedly took place. The placement of the bones is suspect. The bullet is suspect. The blood evidence in the car is suspect. They did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed her. He may have, but the evidence is flimsy and points heavily to tampering. The defense was brilliant at laying that bare. I’m not even going to get started with you about the rape he previously served time for. Your facts are so off its clear you haven’t read up on it. Im just amazed at some people on here. This just isn’t that difficult to understand….

    • marshmellow says:

      Meh, if “broken system” was the only point the filmmakers were trying to get across, they didn’t need to be so obviously biased in favor of Avery (e.g. minimizing his history of violence against women, animal cruelty, and other criminal behavior or neglecting to mention some of the more damning evidence against him). Whether that was their intention or not, the documentary has fueled an internet full of armchair detectives who are now convinced of his innocence and are trying to get Obama to free him or something…

      If they wanted to point out the flaws in the system, they could’ve used several cases instead of simply this one. It would’ve been a lot better if they had because pointing of multiple cases of police corruption would provide more convincing evidence of widespread problems with the justice system.

    • Tourmaline says:

      The prosecution/LE doing a lot to get a conviction is not how the system is supposed to work, Careygloss? Oh yes it is how the system is supposed to work. It’s called an adversarial legal system. I learned a lot about it in law school, not on Netflix. Avery got a vigorous defense at trial and appeals and that is also how the system works.

    • Harry Lime says:

      I don’t have a problem with people not liking Steven Avery or not wanting to watch the documentary because they don’t like Steven Avery or thinking Avery is guilty after they watched the documentary. What is so bizarre to me is the accusation that, if you watch the documentary, your some kind of ignoramus who is easily hoodwinked by those cunning filmmakers. The fact that MaM is some one-sided propaganda campaign to turn Avery into Mother Theresa is just plain wrong. It is possible for those of us who watch the documentary to intelligently process what we’re seeing. I came away with the impression that Steven Avery is a terrible person, but that he was still royally screwed by the justice system and that even terrible people have a Constitutional right to a fair trial and sometimes terrible people aren’t always guilty of the crimes they are accused of.

    • Tammy White says:

      @ careygloss…my facts are not off. I actually did read up this case…and oh, I happen to be a lawyer. He was indeed out on bail when arrested for the rape of Penny Beerstein. He was out on bail for holding a neighbor at gunpoint threatening to rape her. The police had good reason to suspect him. Look up Michael Greisbach & the book he wrote about Steven Avery. Then come tell me I’m off.

      • Well ... says:

        @Tammy
        The police did have good reason to suspect Avery, this is true. But they had good reason to suspect a lot of people, particularly Teresa’s ex-boyfriend, room-mate etc. At least a third of female homicides are committed by male intimate partners; yet the police interviewed the room-mate and ex together, and never so much treated them with a whiff of healthy suspicion?

        You don’t even need to buy into the total police conspiracy theory to appreciate that the extremely blinkered nature of this investigation is worrying, in the least.

  11. Lou says:

    I believe Jodi. I think people have really bought into the whole thing of Steve being this poor, dumb, bullied hick when in reality he is a creepy person who did a lot of bad things. His ‘fanboys/girls’ are white knighting him all over youtube to the point where it’s become quite scary.

  12. Sixer says:

    I watched this as a kind of outsider (I’m not American so have no stake in the US justice system; I am pretty snotty about crime-as-entertainment shows and generally avoid them). I hadn’t seen or read anything about the case or even heard of it before watching and really only watched because Sixlet Major was insistent. Various thoughts I had coming out of it:

    1) I thought the film makers had a clear intent – but not to exonerate Avery, as many here seem to think. Rather to put forward their view that US justice system has morphed into guilty until proved innocent rather than innocent until proved guilty.

    2) I didn’t come away with any strong feeling as to Avery’s guilt or innocence.* But I did come away with a clear view that neither the investigation and trial met any standard of probity that one would associate with a modern democracy with strong civil liberties.

    3) As a Brit, I hadn’t fully realised how parochial the US court system is. Here in the UK, a serious crime like murder would not be tried at a parochial local court. It would go to a regional crown court. Clearly the US is different with being a lot bigger and states differing in how they do things but um… it would be something like all murders being tried at a senior court in the state capital. Something like that. As someone who would like to see more localism here in the UK, it really gave me pause for thought as there were clear issues with conflict of interest all arising from a local prosecution entwined with local law enforcement and local jury selection. I might have to change my mind about local authorities being the best placed to deal with all local issues, even serious ones!

    *Mr Sixer and the Sixlets believe the victim’s body was found in her car at the time the police officer called in the licence plate and then they (and perhaps others) proceeded to fake the evidence to put Avery in the frame. Whether they did that because they genuinely believed Avery did it or because they wanted to frame him – my lot don’t have an opinion on that. Nor on who actually killed her. They think it could have been Avery or indeed someone else.

    I don’t have an opinion beyond that the trial wasn’t fit for purpose.

    • Sixer says:

      Oh, PS – I think I would have preferred to see something that looked at various cases which all highlighted examples of guilty until proved innocent, as someone points out above. I didn’t much enjoy being dragged into a game of real Cluedo with a real victim. If there had been a variety of cases, I wouldn’t have felt so uncomfortably prurient.

  13. MickeyM says:

    My reasonable doubt came with call-in on the license before her vehicle was ever found by the cop. He deserves a new trial for the unethical way the prosecutor conducted himself. The way he prejudiced the whole jury pool with that press conference is unethical, and unacceptable.

  14. Cricket says:

    I mean no disrespect to Teresa in my comment but one thing I’ve wondered but have not read nor seen discussed is that of her body. If the theory goes that she was hacked up and thrown into a burn pit or bonfire.. why was no blood found on any of the Avery site? I thought blood was something that would exist even if the scene was cleaned with bleach.. the other thing is there were many people in/around the burn site. Wouldn’t a human body being burned in such a matter cause any smells that would alert someone that something was going on?

    I have no idea who killed Teresa and feel for her family that they have been dragged into this entire mess of a public arena of debate.