Ever since Elle Magazine teased the substance of Beyonce’s cover interview, I couldn’t wait to read the whole thing. I was prepared for the worst and hoping for the best, and I am actually not disappointed at all. While Beyonce has been on magazine covers somewhat consistently the past few years, this Elle piece is her first major magazine interview in… probably three years or so. While it’s not written as a traditional magazine piece, Bey still delivers some news and some notable quotes. I was mostly interested in what she had to say about the “controversy” over her “Formation” video and how she defines feminism for herself. Some additional highlights:
Deciding to embrace feminism: “I put the definition of feminist in my song and on my tour, not for propaganda or to proclaim to the world that I’m a feminist, but to give clarity to the true meaning. I’m not really sure people know or understand what a feminist is, but it’s very simple. It’s someone who believes in equal rights for men and women. I don’t understand the negative connotation of the word or why it should exclude the opposite sex. If you’re a man who believes your daughter should have the same opportunities and rights as your son, then you’re a feminist. We need men and women to understand the double standards that still exist in this world and we need to have a real conversation so we can begin to make changes. Ask anyone, man or woman, ‘Do you want your daughter to have 75 cents when she deserves $1?’ What do you think the answer should be? When we talk about equal rights, there are issues that face women disproportionately.”
She’s a humanist: “That’s why I wanted to work with [the philanthropic organisations] Chime for Change and Global Citizen. They understand how issues related to education, health, and sanitation around the world affect a woman’s entire existence and that of her children. They’re putting programmes in place to help those young girls who literally face death because they want to learn, and to prevent women from dying during childbirth because there’s no access to health care. Working to make those inequalities go away is being a feminist, but more importantly, it makes me a humanist. I don’t like or embrace any label. I don’t want calling myself a feminist to make it feel like that’s my one priority over racism or sexism or anything else. I’m just exhausted by labels and tired of being boxed in. If you believe in equal rights, the same way society allows a man to express his darkness, to express his pain, to express his sexuality, to express his opinion – I feel that women have the same rights.
Whether she can be feminine & a feminist: “We all know that’s not true. Choosing to be a feminist has nothing to do with your femininity – or, for that matter, your masculinity. We’re not all just one thing. Not everyone who believes in equal rights for men and women speaks the same, or dresses the same, or thinks the same. If a man can do it, a woman should be able to do it. It’s that simple. If your son can do it, your daughter should be able to. Some of the things that we teach our daughters – allowing them to express their emotions, their pain and vulnerability – we need to allow and support our men and boys to do as well.
The message behind “Formation”: “I mean, I’m an artist and I think the most powerful art is usually misunderstood. But anyone who perceives my message as anti-police is completely mistaken. I have so much admiration and respect for officers and the families of the officers who sacrifice themselves to keeps us safe. But let’s be clear: I am against police brutality and injustice. Those are two separate things. If celebrating my roots and culture during Black History Month made anyone uncomfortable, those feelings were there long before a video and long before me. I’m proud of what we created and I’m proud to be part of a conversation that is pushing things forward in a positive way.”
[From Elle via The Culture]
First, the “Formation” stuff… I absolutely agree with her and applaud her for sticking up for herself in the face of some really absurd criticism. You can support the police AND be an advocate for change in the way communities of color are being policed. You can be pro-police and still want to talk about police violence against civilians. You can be black and want to have a larger conversation about injustice without it turning into a Fox News hissy fit.
As for her conversation about feminism and humanism… I think taken in context, her comments make sense. This isn’t a repeat of the Meryl Streep debacle, where Meryl acted like she rejected the feminist label in favor of humanism. Beyonce is saying that yes, she’s a feminist and a humanist and she’s concerned about all of these issues at the same time.
Photos courtesy of Elle.
Sooooo tired of her. All her music sounds exactly the same – screechy.
Please go away.
Maybe dont click on articles about her? Just a suggestion.
You might want to follow your own advice…
@Goo
Ok, I’ll bite. How so? I never click on celebrities to complain about how tired I am of reading about them. Seriously, just dont click.
Were all entitled to our opinion. Beyonces music has not grown or matured with her, seems like destinys child but solo. Her lyrics come off illiterate n show off. For a humanist, singing about designer labels is solo 90’s, singing how her husband spewed sperm on her dress,while going down on him in a limo is not being a feminist. Feminist is more than equality in pay, using sex to sell is not new, they all do it it don’t label it as being a feminist. Look at Adele, her songs are powerful,touching n beautiful.Bet has the voice unlike some who auto tune, she needs to mature n stop copying other artists.
Who told you you werent entitled to an opinion? Its just completely illogical to willingly click on an article and then complain about its content. Just dont click, problem solved.
Ignore the trolls
Beyonce’s music hasn’t evolved? If you listened to I Am … Sasha Fierce and her self-titled album, the music is completely different. She’s definitely grown as an artist, especially with her last album, and this is coming from someone who doesn’t particularly enjoy Beyonce.
@Fee: “….singing how her husband spewed sperm on her dress, while going down on him in a limo is not being a feminist…using sex to sell is not new, they all do it don’t label it as being a feminist.”
Sexuality is not anti-feminist, bad, sinful, or unethical. It’s not anti-feminist for singers, writers, artists, actors, models, photographers, filmmakers, or songwriters to produce, create, or participate in songs, movies, photoshoots, or books that contain consensual human sexuality in them, or to profit off of those works. Being a feminist is not about ‘not being slutty/easy’ or women proving to men that we’re all ‘not that kind of girl’. Being a feminist is not about chastity, modesty, or ‘being a lady.’ Traditional values and feminism are not the same thing.
The whole point to click on Celebitchy is to be bitchy and able to express our likes/dislikes for celebrities. Please don’t tell me that you love Kim Kardashian and that’s why you read all the articles. I agree about Be-yawn-say. Go ahead: grill me. #hypocrites
Finally – a celeb who not only correctly defines what Feminism stands for but also publically admits she is a Feminist.
it’s not “finally!” moment. lol. she plastered this giant “F E M I N I S T” billboards on the bakcground while performing on some award show a few years ago. it was the most obnoxious and cringe-worthy thing ever. she’s just using it to make herself relevent.
Love it! She doesn’t “embrace” any label, but refers to herself as “Queen Bey”. Get over your self, Beyoncé.
Her sincerest apologies if you found it obnoxious that she plastered the word on her own stage in an era where so many young women are running away from it. Never heard her refer to herself as Queen Bey, that one is totally on us.
What chioma said. I can’t believe that people get on her for that. SMDH
She’s a feminist but BOW DOWN BITCHES in the same song, right queen bey?
@Steph Oh please. Posturing is just a part of RnB inspired pop. Everyone from Rihanna to Mary J Blige has equivalent music. Nobody except extremely naive people take it personally.
I just came here to say this is one interview of hers that doesn’t bother me and I completely agree with her on all counts.
But why can’t she articulate this way when she speaks; only in print.
@naya how is it possible not to take it personally when in the same song she’s encouraging women to be the same as men, but then telling them to bow down to her?
@Steph
Could you post the exact lyrics in which she tells women to be the same as men? But since you bring up the men, name me one Hiphop/RnB adjacent guy who doesnt have a posturing song.
Also, that song is clearly not directed at women in general but at the competition within the industry. Iirc it begins with her declaring that just because she had left the scene to “live her life” dont think she is just “his little wife”. Theres nothing smug about it, its a syke out song for goodness sake. How can anyone take a syke out song seriously? It would be like taking Wait Your Turn seriously, although from the sounds of it, you may have given Rihanna grief over that bit of harmlessness too.
There’s a different between someone not being “feminist” and not being the “perfect feminist.” An FYI, the perfect feminist doesn’t exist (because we can’t be all things to all people). Not all feminists even agree with each other. Feminist academic scholars, theorists, activists, celebrities, bloggers, etc all have disagreements on what is/isn’t empowering, what is/isn’t a feminist statement, what is/isn’t objectifying, etc.
HH, very wise post. 🙂
@v4real…totally agree. She came off really well in this interview. And I’m sure she had LOTS of prep with a publicist, etc. because nowadays the feminist question comes up every single time. So I’m sure someone gave her those responses. But kudos to her for being intelligent enough to get advice on what to say since soooo many actresses have flubbed it up recently.
….But you brought this up while commenting on a site called celeBITCHY.
@pretty: Hmm… Would you say that Jennifer Lawrence, Emma Watson, Emma Thompson, Chris Hemsworth, and Amy Schumer aren’t real feminists and are ‘only using it to keep themselves relevant’, or are their images palatable enough for them to have ‘earned’ the ‘privilege’ to call themselves feminists in your opinion?
@HH: “There’s a difference between someone not being a feminist and someone not being ‘the perfect feminist.’ And Fyi the perfect feminist doesn’t exist.”
Thank you! Not enough people understand this and will be so quick to forget their own problematic pasts and presents while ‘disfellowshipping’ other women from the movement for reasons like “she dyed her hair” or “she said the word bitch”. It puts feminists on some type of saintly pedestal and spreads ignorance about what a feminist is.
It’s so sad that people have to explain that feminism means equal rights for men and women. People have really hijacked that word and twisted it beyond belief.
Gotta clarify that it has largely been conservatives and right wingers who have done so (Rush
Limbaugh’s oh so clever, “feminazis” off the top of my head, though there are far more substantive ones).
It’s not just the conservatives and the MRAs who spread the ignorance though, unfortunately. We liberals spread the ignorance too with our ridiculous “No True Scotsman”- isms, and then complain when other women reject the label because they think being a feminist means they have to be some type of stereotype that just isn’t who they are. The “I’m for equality but I’m not a feminist because I like being girly/I like sex/I like men/ I like this traditional part of a relationship/I’m heterosexual” type comments didn’t happen just because of conservatives and libertarians who are against feminism.
Yes, and good for her for doing this! I’m not a huge fan but I give her kudos for this.
Her understanding of feminism seems so privileged to me. Loveeeee everything she said about formation though. Make the bigots even more angry with your album, Bey!!!
How so?
@KB @Dee That’s what I was wondering. She’s mentioning wanting men and women to have equal pay, for men and women to be able to express their emotions and behave in similar ways. She mentioned an organization she works with helping women live through childbirth. What is privileged by that? I’m not even a Beyonce fan, and I’ve felt like I’ve had to defend her since the Super Bowl.
You really overestimate her so called power.
What is your “unprivileged” definition of feminism?
Go on…
???????
i think someone wrote that for her.
Same. She seems to be whatever buzzword is trending right now but still manages to be non committal.
i have seen past interviews. she is just not this articulate.
Yes, because heaven help us if a 34-year-old woman grows up, matures, educates herself. Also, we know what’s going on in Bey’s house so we know that she doesn’t read or follow current events.
In the past she has done interviews through email. I’m curious if this was the same or if it was in person. She should be able to come up with those answers on her own quite easily though.
Yeah this isn’t really personal, you don’t really get a feeling of her in this interview. I said in yesterday’s post that Lainey’s analysis on this interview was spot on. I believe it was thru email & not a person to person one.
Ever read her letter to Michelle Obama? It breaks my heart in the sense that it is very much what an eleven year old would write…
Lol “she is a caring mother, she is a loving wife, while at the same time, SHE IS THE FIRST LADY!”
She addressed it to Michelle but then just started talking about Michelle, then later back to Michelle.
Yeah, that letter just made me sad for her. My 8yr old could have done better, and that’s not in any way a brag. She clearly got an extremely sub-standard education, though then again, at this point she’s had every opportunity to rectify that.
I actually wondered that myself, but I really hope not. I hope that was truly her voice, because I think she’s saying some very good things.
Why do you think someone wrote that for her? Even the dumbest white D-list celebrities never get called dumb. ever.
Elle specified that it was a one-on-one interview and the shoot was done when she was rehearsing for the superbowl. Most of you might have to eat your words.
Susan Sarandon for her most recent comments on Trump has been called dumb, no? Tom Hiddleston for his understanding of feminism and what women want?
Because this is Beyonce, and the prevailing notion must prevail. People hear her heavy accent, hear her speaking slowly and deliberately, speaking in simple terms, choosing her words carefully so of course, she must be stupid. This is very disingenuous to me, but mostly laughable. Because yes, a woman who has created and maintained a very successful career and life for going on 20 years, is dumb. We should all be that stupid.
I often wonder the same thing. Why is she perceived as dumb or inarticulate or incapable when she has proven time and time again that not only is she a great artist and entertainer, but also a great business woman? Beyonce is one of the few women who was able to successfully transition from a girl group to one of the biggest solo acts in the world. Everything that Taylor Swift or Katy Perry or any other female artist is doing now, she’s probably already done; but you know… she’s stupid.
She’s not “aw shucks” in interviews, but she’s also not “durrrrrr.” She’s always been guarded and hyper-aware of everything that she says because, as we’ve seen, people take words and spin them to mean anything that will further their agenda; and what is small and a quick story for most artists would be major backlash for her.
…and I’m not even a part of the Beyhive.
I think the sentiments are hers, just cleaned up, which happens a lot with celebrities anyway. Thats probably why she chose a writer she is familiar with to do the piece.
Who cares who wrote it anyway? Attaching these ideas to a star of her magnitude can only influence the culture forward.
+a gazillion for your last paragraph <3
Yes, this seems previously scripted. Especially because the few times she is caught off guard, she seems to be not bright at all.
of course she didnt but I’m sure some stans will swear she did
Agreed! There’s something about the words used and the structure of them that indicates it was (1) probably written and (2) probably not her voice. Unless they’re professional speakers (and we know she isn’t), most people tend not to verbally express their selves like this. It’s a little too contrived.
She’s an odd one to me. Saw her special on HBO and she has a hard time articulating and kind of chuckles her way through sentences. She made a comment yesterday how she appreciated the police (she damn better should, they protect her), yada yada and then ended the statement saying she doesn’t condone police brutality. Duh, who does. She’s walking on both sides of the fence. I get the feeling her impromptu statements are out of the mouths of others. Take it easy Beyoncé, your fans idolize you no matter what you do or say.
I saw the HBO special as well. She doesn’t seem present like her elevator doesn’t go to the top floor.
lol
“She made a comment yesterday how she appreciated the police (she damn better should, they protect her), yada yada and then ended the statement saying she doesn’t condone police brutality. Duh, who does. She’s walking on both sides of the fence.” >>>> No she’s not. That fence is being created by those who think that one can’t speak out against police brutality while not appreciating the police as a whole. As for who condones police brutality… no one “outright” condones it. However, going to the lengths of covering up incidents, putting officers on paid leave, or giving them desk jobs isn’t condemnation or even taking substantive moves to affect change.
I’m pretty impressed with her comments, as far as celebrities go…but this whole feminist vs. humanist thing doesn’t make any sense. Do people not understand what “humanism” actually is? It’s not some kind of alternative to feminism or even something that exists within the same framework of gender equality.
From Wikpedia:
“Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition. The meaning of the term humanism has fluctuated according to the successive intellectual movements which have identified with it.[1] Generally, however, humanism refers to a perspective that affirms some notion of human freedom and progress. In modern times, humanist movements are typically aligned with secularism, and today humanism typically refers to a non-theistic life stance centred on human agency and looking to science rather than revelation from a supernatural source to understand the world.[2][3]”
I don’t expect celebrities to be geniuses or intellectuals or philosophers, but they should at least understand the terms they’re using. When it comes to feminism, Bey knows exactly what she’s talking about.
I was going to say this. Excellent on feminism: really excellent. Hopeless on humanism.
And at some point, someone is going to ask all these fools misdefining humanism if it’s true they don’t believe in God. Something that would be perfectly fine in the UK, but, I understand, would not play at all well in the US.
People do realise that the first humanists were Catholics right? That it’s foundations are in the fourteenth century and that the humanists up until pretty recently were people of faith who would recognize Beyoncé’s definition of humanism sooner as humanism than the slightly atheist version of it? Personally I think it’s completely ridiculous that humanism could be perceived as solely secular/atheist. You need to ignore six centuries of history for this.
I get what you’re saying, but based on these excerpts at least, I don’t think she’s misusing humanism (and I consider myself a humanist and atheist and of course feminist). Shes talking about recognizing and honoring the value of each individual and saying that an individual woman is no less or more valuable than an individual man. I actually thought she did a decent job of refusing to apologize for her feminism. I think she was trying to avoid alienating fans who want her to be more about racism than feminism, as if those are competing causes, and that’s why she went on this whole tangent in the first place.
Also I agree that she didn’t say this in a live interview. She could have written it herself I guess, but I doubt. At a minimum, she signed off on it as saying what she wanted to say, and that’s good enough for me. I don’t expect or need beyonce to be articulate on the spot. Not her job.
She has said she believes in God, so she is misusing “humanist”.
Seconding Jackie’s comment…if you look up organizations like the British Humanist Association, they are of a secularist/atheist orientation. Beyonce is definitely not and at times has emphasized the importance of her faith.
Jackie and Jessica are entirely correct.
Personally, every time I hear someone say “I’m a humanist, not a feminist” I want to punch a wall because these are two entirely, unrelated things.
Yeah, I think you have long lost the battle for that word. This isnt one of those battles you can win at this point when by far, the vast majority of people use “humanism” as a synonym for egalitarian. Language evolves, if you chose to be a purist you will have a very frustrated life.
I’m all for language evolution. But I don’t think it applies when you misuse the name for a belief system followed by millions of people worldwide. That, I’m afraid, is just showing your ignorance. This is just Beyonce seeing people like Streep misuse a word because they want to prevaricate on feminism, assuming she used the word correctly, then misusing it herself. It’s not language evolution.
Except its not just “people like Streep”, its pretty much everyone. Conduct yourself a little poll wherever you are, ask ten people what that word means and then report back.
There was a time where the word “Gentleman” was used to denote socio economic class, so that a man could be disgusting and a brute but still be a “gentleman”. Times changed and so did the meaning of the word. The “humanist” train left the station a long time ago and its not coming back regardless of how many letters to the editor people send.
Language does evolve, but one can’t talk about the societal misunderstanding/misuse of the one term (feminism), and then go on to use the incorrect popular/societal interpretation of another term (humanism).
Thank you Jessica! While I appreciate how clearly she talked about feminism she is way off about humanism.
Another dictionary definition of humanism is “One who is concerned with the interests and welfare of humans” though.
Exactly. apples and oranges. Ever since Meryl said it everyone is conflating the two. I learned about humanism in Art history class! its more of a philosophy of human beings to the world, god etc
I don’t think she knows what “humanism” is.
Like it’s an actual philisophical and ethical stance centred around secularism and socialism– it’s not just a word you use to make sure the boys don’t think you hate them….
Considering she once stood in front of a 10 foot tall “FEMINIST” sign I do find it kind of funny she’s not into labels, but overall I like what she’s saying here.
When it helps her brand she is into labels.
The few times I’ve seen her interviews she wasn’t nearly this articulate. She seems to know the correct stance on issues but fails at explaining how she gets there….I call bs on this one!
The words are too big for her vocabulary, to have come from her…
Issues of moral justice (and racism/feminism/equal rights are at the forefront of those) should be the things that attract and hold people’s attention and focus. I don’t think it’s particularly important that everyone’s using the latest correct term or label; that can turn people off from even participating in the discussion. Her definition of feminism is pretty much mine: I should be able to make the choices men can make. And if a man can choose to go right back to work without missing a beat after having a child, then I should be able to too. There should be affordable childcare in place to make that possible–that’s an obligation of the state.
However, that’s only permitting women to be just like men. We aren’t men. We have biological clocks. We are as entitled to create careers for ourselves shaped around our lives as men did in the postwar era when they created the modern workplace. Our choices are probably going to be different than those men chose for us–we want paid maternity leave, we want a workplace that recognizes the parenthood of both sexes. That’s an obligation on the state too.
I feel strongly that this is where the world is headed–more global governance, and states compelled to make larger social commitments than ever. This postwar period of economic expansion where men made all the rules and everything was meted out by your employer–that’s over. That’s over because the era of American predominance is over. Americans don’t get to consume a full 25% of the world’s resources–not when 3 billion Chinese and Indians want more. And they’re entitled to it. Who is going to tell the Chinese farmer to go back to eking out a subsistence level existence on the rice paddy so Americans can keep driving big cars? O.v.e.r. There is less. We will have less–and that is justice! We must share more. No more voluntary, half-assed half-paid maternity leaves, etc. It will all be mandated at a national level. States (national gov’t) are going to have to force corporations to carry the burden of equal rights.
Anyhoooooooo, The Next 100 Years, by GreenieWeenie. Now in bookstores everywhere.
That’s so true about the male-pattern modern workplace. Someone I know recently posited that the gender pay gap would be smaller if women just had their babies when they were 16-18 and started their higher education/careers at 21-22 once the children had started school. No career-breaking interruptions then. We all reacted with immediate shock and horror but once you see that the modern workplace and career structures are all designed around men, it’s true. (Not that I’m advocating women having children at 16: it’s just an illustration of the disadvantage that illuminates it immensely).
I heard someone say something once about how even the workday is patterned around male hormones, which have a 24 hour cycle (like our workdays). Women, on the other hand, have a monthly cycle.
I mean…I never thought about that. And I have no idea what a workplace patterned around a monthly cycle would look like (3 weeks of work a month…?) But it just made me think about our default assumptions. Why do we have 8 hour workdays, 5 days a week? Why does our career span our early 20s to our late 50s, peaking around age 40? These things were all choices made at one point–and we all know women weren’t making them. I just want to fast forward 100/200 years and get a glimpse of what it all looks like then, because I think it’ll look very very different.
I think many things will have to change. The assumption, for example, of many institutions, including the workplace, welfare systems, etc etc, is that the nuclear family is still dominant. But it isn’t. Family structure is now fluid: from nuclear to lone parenting, to blended, and back again. I read the other day that something like 25% of all jobs will be lost to automation over the next 20-25 years. Economics hasn’t caught up with any of this, has it? We’re still having conversations and running politics and economies on the basis of a world that has already half-disappeared and is continuing to disappear.
I wonder what the future will look like, too! Hopefully not Mad Max. Unlikely to be utopia. But hopefully nearer the latter than the former.
@GreenieWeenie about the 24 hour cycle – we all have a circadian rhythm which aligns more or less to 24 hours. Hormones in both men and women work on this cycle eg hormones that make you sleepy, hungry etc.
Hormones controlling sexual reproduction in women obviously do vary throughout the month. Some scientists believe that they do for men as well, and also throughout the year, depending on the season, but there’s not much research into it.
I think you’re right it would be interesting to see what will happen in the future! Like Sixer I’m hoping for the best….
here is hoping, g.w <3
hoping with every ounce of my being!!!
I think the only reason Beyonce is not giving interviews and shuns media is her inability to articulate herself. I watched few of her interviews and for a “superstar” of her stature, she comes across as, let’s say, not so bright. She doesn’t have to be, but the problem arises when Beyonce wants to control her message and her image to the point of perfection. Image can speak for itself for only so long, so what’s lacking in her case is intellectual stamina to support everything her fans have made her out to be. Most people I know do not give two cents about her and probably I’m gonna get a lot of heat for this, but her predominant fan base is very loud on social media and hence the buzz. Otherwise, it seems her star is on the decline. Personally I find her overrated currently and while I enjoy her old songs (Single Ladies, Baby Boy…), recently there hasn’t been anything musically that I can remember and also she seems to hold herself in such high regard that her music is so exclusive to the point where you can hardly find it and subsequently oblivion.
I so agree. I have always thought this. Someone defiantly fed her all of the stuff she is saying too. There is no way she would come up with this.
Love her and her words.
+1,000,000
She will always have my respect for publicly embracing feminism. I don’t give a sh*t if it’s a ploy for publicity (and I don’t think it is, personally) or whatever motivates her to identify as a feminist, I still see it as a really good thing.
I don’t have strong stanny feelings about her but I do admire a lot of things about her and her business sense. It makes me sad how people can tear her apart for saying, correctly, what feminism is because she’s one of those people who seem to inspire irrational hatred in people to the point that she can’t say the sky is blue without being torn to shreds.
I have no interest in her music. Nor am I interested in any performer-as-brand type of artist. But that’s just my personal taste.
Speaking generally rather than personally, I think Beyonce is pretty great. She’s a capitalist success in the world’s most capitalist country. She’s consciously engaged in cultural renewal and reproduction. She has power, knows it and leverages it to both her own advantage and to the advantage of cultural consciousness.
I really don’t see what there is not to like.
I think along those lines as well. Her music is generally not my taste but there is no denying her power.
Yasssssss on everything she said about formation, if you have a problem with it, then your problem was already there.
Anti police-brutality isn’t the same as anti police but a lot of people won’t even try to understand it.
I KNOW those words gave me ALL of the sustenance today!!!, I shall carry on so I don’t have to deal with the sh!tshow this thread is en route to being!
I am sick and tired of seeing people shame this woman, calling her illiterate. Just because “speech” is not her strong suit, does NOT mean she’s dumb. She might slur her words or have a very thick accent, intelligence is not measured by the books, and we should already know by now. She might not have been the greatest student and not have spent much time at school, developing her conversational skills, but, in my eyes, she’s one of the most intelligent people in her industry. You can argue that she has a team that writes for her, and maybe she does, maybe she needs help putting her many thoughts together neatly for a magazine, or maybe she just is more confident when she writes.
Taylor swift is seen as a very smart, intelligent woman, who is also pretty, tall, lean and wealthy. Her lyrics are quite childish and rather stupid IMO but nobody here ever calls her dumb. They call her “childish” and “teen-minded” but never dumb. Maybe she’s more articulate than Beyoncé, but all i see is a woman who is trapped in a 16 y/o mind.
I, for one, consider myself quite the intelligent woman, but when I speak, many times I get nervous and stutter, lose my train of thought and sometimes (more often than not) make an ass of myself in front of people or my boss. But I’m good at my job, and I’m great at writing (obviously in my own language), but I tend to get lost sometimes. Does that mean I’m dumb? and I went to school, and to college and did great at written assignments and group tasks and presentations.
Shame on every one of us women right here who make it a mission to diminish Beyoncé’s accomplishments by calling her dumb/stupid/illiterate just to have a “”””valid”””” reason to “despise” or “look down on” her. She’s really accomplished, deal with it. call her out on her fake thigh gap and perfectionist agenda, taking songwriting credit from others and taking herself so seriously. Don’t do to her what you so heavily criticize on others when it’s about some other celebrity.
ETA: Not a stan, not from the Bey-hive
+1000
Loved your words.
I’m glad you said this because I was thinking the same exact thing. Every time I’ve seen Bey in an interview, I’ve never thought “she’s so dumb” I think she comes across as sweet and shy.
Maybe I’m wrong but that’s just the impression I’ve always gotten.
*shrugs*
Me too, always saw her as sweet and shy. And it’s often the quiet ones who have the greatest minds… Kanye should look at her as an example lol.
@Mimz I don’t think Beyonce is very bright and I’m sticking to it. I’m not looking down on her ,I’m making an observation. When has anybody said Taylor Swift was intelligent? Most people here compliment her business acumen. I’ve never heard or read about how smart she is. If we’re talking about lyrics then Beyonce’s lyrics don’t always sound like they come from a grown woman either. At least Taylor writes her own lyrics. I can’t say the same for Beyonce.
A synonym for acumen is smartness. So Swift is smart in doing business. What’s the difference with just calling her smart then?
If Beyoncé doesn’t write her own lyrics, people should stop using them as a reason to call her stupid. Call her writers dumb then.
Writing your own lyrics doesn’t make you smart. Rihanna almost never wrote a song – except for her most recent album – and she had some pretty good lyrics before. Plenty of jerks in the music industry are good songwriters and terrible people. so no, I don’t think that’s a valid argument. And, to answer your question, every time there is a post about Taylor’s accomplishments like, Tour + album sales revenue, marketing strategies, PR, etc, even the writers of the blog commend her for being business savvy and smart and even if they didn’t use the word “intelligent”, it’s implied. Same way it is implied here that Beyoncé is dumb. Each and every time.
Just imagine have a child who is bright but terribly inarticulate and/or shy, and watch people call them dumb everyday. I have seen this many times and it really pisses me off. So, In my opinion, Beyoncé is smart, just not good with words, and that’s totally OK.
@Artemis People compliment Kim Kardashian’s business acumen. It doesn’t mean she’s smart. As for the lyrics ,I never said they made Beyonce stupid. The op said Taylor’s lyrics sounded like they came from a 16 y/o. My response, if you actually read it didn’t make any mention of Beyonce’s lyrics being stupid. My comment said that Beyonce’s lyrics don’t sound like they come from a grown woman. If Beyonce is singing lyrics that make her seem immature then it is her fault.
@Mimz I never said writing your own lyrics made you smart. You’re putting words in mouth. You made a reference to Taylor’s maturity level from her lyrics. In turn I made reference to Beyonce’s maturity level from her lyrics.
All true, Mimz. So true.
+1000, there’s a big fat racist bias in the way Beyoncé’s intelligence and education is spoken about on this site. It’s so f*cking transparent. I’ve yet to read any Taylor Swift interview that gave me the impression that she was smart, yet so many here commend her for being some genius business mastermind. While Beyoncé’s success is always credited to anyone but her.
Ya’ll aint slick.
Agree with Mimz that inarticulate does not translate to dumb but you must be joking re: Swifty.
She is not well liked on here and many commenters have mentioned that her business acumen can be attributed to her team. A lot of folks, me being one of them, is not impressed with Swifty’s talent either. So no, she is not touted as some genius and is in fact more often referred to as vain, childish, narcissistic etc.,
Kristen Stewart is another one who gets dragged for inarticulacy.
I’d say it’s more a case of when a celeb is disliked, every flaw, every word is picked apart, whereas those who are liked would be given a pass for saying the exact same thing.
tl;dr Bias is clearly at play here, but it’s not necessarily of a racial bent.
Thanks, Mimz. I agree wholeheartedly.
When Brad PItt was called stupid by some posters because he also doesn’t have the ability to articulate his thoughts well, many posters came to his defense about the things he has accomplished and how that makes him smart. It seems accomplishments are only taken into account when somebody likes a celebrity or if that person is a man. With Beyoncé people bend over backwards and into a pretzel to deny she has a hand in her career. Despite the fact that she doesn’t need 2 other bandmembers or her father to sustain her career. As for her husband, they spilt up briefly before the marriage because she was obsessed with her career (as per his lyrics!) so it’s not like she didn’t signal to him that he was not mandatory in her life or career!
People forget how difficult it is to sustain a career in an industry dominated by white people. Many non-white celebrities have great teams but it doesn’t mean they automatically stay successful. Beyoncé must be doing something right or she would have Ciara’s and Ashanti’s fame. 2 women who btw happen to be smart, Ashanti was praised for her songwriting skills by the industry and critics and Ciara is extremely articulate in spoken interviews. Where are they now though? Not even Future could revive the public’s interest in her and her Russell is more popular than she is (as evidenced by the cheers on Taylor Swift’s tour). What good is being smart when nobody cares about you, is there an added value to it or is it just a reason to put Beyoncé down? Who knows with the non-Beylievers…
Fact is, smartness isn’t going to be the factor that sustains a show business career, it’s captivating the public interest. Seeing how many of her non-fans listened to her album and dissecting every video just as much as her fans and stans, methinks she is interesting! And even when they don’t buy her album, there is a concerted EFFORT to be made to look up and download her music illegally just so you can be part of the conversation when she drops an album. Like what kind of dedicated hatred. It’s like the KK show who everybody seems to follow while nobody likes them…or so they claim hmmmm?
Oh and Mimz is so right about being smart but not necessarily being articulate. I write well and did great in uni and presentations but articulating my thoughts in casual conversations is a drag as I just don’t have the ability to structure my story and go into tangents. It’s a mess. Yet I’m successful when it comes to work. But I suppose many on here would find me dumber than a box of rocks in real life haha…
I love your comment Artemis and I have nothing to add 😀
I love a good discussion, and a good debate, but when I’m with people i’m comfortable with. It’s only when I’m being judged in work or school or professional environments, I get nervous and start to mess it up. I’m better now, but I still ramble a lot before making a point. And sometimes people have to tell me: GET TO THE POINT haha!
I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable with this thread for the very reasons you stated. Beyonce is not articulate but that doesn’t make her dumb, it only makes her inarticulate. Shy people may seem this way quite often.
Many entertainers can throw down on stage but be painfully shy. When she’s caught off guard she seems more shy than anything else.
I know, I’m having a bad day, and I’ve always seen these kinds of comments on Beyonce’s posts and really dislike them, but today I just had it. People can be really mean. And yes I know this is Celebitchy and we come here to bitch about celebrities but come on… “she’s dumb as a rock” is highly offensive IMO.
This!
I don’t quite agree with whst you said regarding articulacy and intelligence. I would argue that there is, indeed, a link between the way a person speaks and their intelligence. We string words together to express thoughts and ideas; I think that when we express them clearly, it’s because they ARE clearer. And a person’s ability to verbally respond to a question (non scripted) also shows how quickly they react, gather their thoughts and process them to form coherent sentences. And I would say this very much reflects intelligence – which is why I have heard many uneducated people speak in a very impressive manner, albeit with limited vocabulary.
Regarding Beyonce and other celebrities – I think many of them aren’t too bright, but they have other skills they use well to their economic advantage. Being accomplished doesn’t make you smart… Way too many politicians prove this, unfortunately.
But you are very limited and limiting in what you perceive as intelligence. People are smart in different ways – book smart, street smart, people smart; some people have more common sense than other people who are much more accomplished and brilliant at what they do; some people have a lack of empathy or ability to read silent signals that makes it hard for them to function socially; some people are highly functioning in one area and stupid in others. Being well spoken just means you’re well spoken. I know plenty of well spoken people who aren’t nearly as smart as they think they are, and I once worked for a brilliant man who was so shy he could barely give me mumbled instructions. My sister made straight As in school and she hasn’t made a good decision about her life in 40 years. You can’t put everybody in the same box.
Lainey’s analysis on this interview is spot on. For a performer like Beyonce who is rather ineloquent the digital age is a Godsend. This interview was done vis-a-vie email. Someone wrote or polished her answers for her. The language is not conversational. In her HBO doc Beyonce struggle through a scripted interview. (She was the director and producer of the doc.)
And no, formal higher education does not mean one is intelligent, however, a rigorous education does develop one’s critical thinking skills. Beyonce is great performer. She in not an intellectual. A woman who dances under a FEMINIST sign in one breathe, and in the next breathe sings Bow Down B*tches.
Or sings on track with her husband rapping “EAT THE CAKE ANNIE MAE.” A clear reference to Tina Turner a former victim of domestic violence. No wonder Tina gave up her US citizenship. Vacuous entertainers like Beyonce are commonplace in the US. My have the mighty fallen…
I worked in a crown prosecution building so lots of so-called ‘intelligent’ people due to their educational background. Thank god they are also gossipy a-holes because the tea was hot.
Long story short, many (not all of course) highly trained solicitors were crap at their job and couldn’t present their case very well. One person was legendary for having the judge telling him to let somebody else take over because he wasn’t making any sense. Dude had 15 years of experience! He still got paid and kept his job though. Or so I’ve heard…
People should be judged individually. People have too much faith in conventional ways to calculate intelligence and intelligence is complex and comes in many forms.
Regardless of whether she, her publicist, her thesaurus or the ghost of Albert Einstein wrote her answers, I love her explanation and firm stance on feminism. FINALLY someone famous articulated what needs to be said.
SUCK IT MERYL!
Lol.
She said what’s on my mind constantly. What’s not simple about feminism? People are so lazy to research about it. It’s funny how they’re not lazy to search for the top secret porn video… Yeah, I’m talking to and about men in general.
One label she will never be stuck with is “wearer of pants”
I’ve said it before, I’ve never been a fan but damn if I didn’t love every single thing she said in that interview. She had my respect and admiration before as an artist, just not as a person but now I’m starting to respect the person too. Dunno if it’ll last but as of right now, I’m here for Beyonce.