This is an Instagram ^ from the British royal family’s official Instagram account. The Queen opened the Scottish Parliament, and the Instagram shows her engaged in a conversation with some of the Scottish MPs. The Instagram account also published some of the Queen’s comments at the Scottish Parliament, which were:
“We all live and work in an increasingly complex and demanding world, where events and developments can, and do, take place at remarkable speed; and retaining the ability to stay calm and collected can at times be hard. As [the Scottish Parliament] has successfully demonstrated over the years, one hallmark of leadership in such a fast-moving world is allowing sufficient room for quiet thinking and contemplation, which can enable deeper, cooler consideration of how challenges and opportunities can be best addressed.”
Which is basically the Queen’s attempt at damage control following the far-reaching political implications of the Brexit vote. “…Retaining the ability to stay calm and collected can at times be hard…” is basically the Queen saying “don’t do something rash and become independent, PLEASE.” While the Queen never said anything ahead of the Brexit vote, she did say something ahead of the Scottish independence vote in 2014, in which Scotland decided to stay with Great Britain. But with the Brexit vote, it’s looking more and more like Scotland will have another referendum, and that if and when Scotland becomes independent, they will join (rejoin) the EU. As a voting bloc, Scotland wanted to Bremain anyway, so the Brexit issue made Scottish independence that much closer.
It was widely believed that the Queen was pro-Brexit before the vote, but now that the proverbial sh-t has hit the fan, the Queen has bregrexit. I will feel slightly sorry for her if her last years as Queen are spent dealing with the Brexit fallout and perhaps seeing Scotland and Northern Ireland leave Great Britain. That’s a kick in the pants, even for the Queen.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Instagram.
I think, to be honest, it was more Her Maj saying “be like the Scottish parliament, Westminster, and not like a government-abandoning, opposition-abandoning bunch of utter twats like you’re currently being”.
And that’s right at the edge of where she’s allowed to go, politically. It almost certainly needed saying.
Scottish secession. Yet another fall-out from Brexit that the fool of a pig-shagger hadn’t factored in. Sigh. Good luck to the Scots in achieving what they want to achieve. Hard decision, however, cos in the scenario they’ve been lumped into, they’d have to adopt the (failing) euro and other things. Extra factors involved in a second, post-Brexit referendum. Very unfair on them that English Tory party priorities have put them here before they were ready.
As a Scot an Indy referendum is that last thing we need and want but this is the only rubbish that Sturgeon has to offer other than small mindedness and lies. After being told the first time that they won’t be able to walk into the EU she’s still spouting that lie. Scotland will have to follow the same rules as any other country who wants to join the EU, there will be no special treatment, something that she continues to ignore.
Full EU membership would be very different to the effectively half-in, half-out deal the UK had BEFORE Brexit – I agree with you there.
I like Sturgeon though. Think she is a great politician.
@Betti
” is that last thing we need and want”.
As a Scot i disagree with everything you wrote. Majority of Scotland wants to remain in Europe. Scotland voted remain by much bigger majority than england voted leave. I will welcome a new referendum and vote leave this time ( i voted remain last time).
Well, the EU is in panic mode. So if Britain really leaves, people like Merkel, Hollande and Juncker might make it rather easy for Scotland to join if only to spite the Brits. It’s entirely possible. They were, as Sixer says, only half in though so they might actually be in for a rude awakening during negotiations. Ultimately, I still hope the UK stays and we can all get our sh*t together. That hope is fading though and I worry about elections in France and Germany next year.
Btw., I like the Queen but I can’t feel bad for her here. She can’t technically say anything, no. But my god, now she can? Then she should’ve said something before. What exactly would have happened? Nobody would do anything to this 90 year old lady. Not really.
Littlemiss – a big law firm here has just launched a challenge in the courts that any Article 50 deal would have to be a) passed by an Act of Parliament and b) put to a second referendum before actual Brexit.
Sixer, I read about a) but not b). Interesting. I hope that whatever the outcome, things don’t drag along because that’s just unfair to the people. I was actually surprised by the immediate reaction following the vote. I thought it would be the rest of the EU that would beg and drag their feet but everyone basically thought it was a done deal and was already moving forward. It put the UK government in a crappy position but frankly, they can go f*ck themselves. Or a pig, whatever they prefer. I do feel for the peole, whether I agree with the decision or not. The situation in the EU can only be described as shambolic, it’s embarrassing.
Littlemiss – it’s exposing everybody’s problems, isn’t it? I’m a fan of the EU in principle but a big sceptic of it in practice. I voted Remain on the basis of stability. But if we had been in more stable times, I could have considered Leave. I also think we have always been bad faith members and feel quite embarrassed about that.
I think it is sad for everyone and of course, particularly for my own countrymen. I’m as insulated as I can be – have done nothing else but take steps to do that ever since 2008 and the big crash – but there are many who aren’t and who will suffer.
Sixer, I feel the same. I love the idea of the EU. I grew up with it and have benefited massively from freedom of movement for example. I lived and studied in two foreign countries, the UK being one of them and I loved it. What screwed us, imo, was the Euro. The wretched Euro. Now we’re dependent on the ECB and various other institutions and will stay dependent until countries like Greece etc. fix their problems. Which they can’t because we won’t let them. So we’re screwing ourselves. It’s such a terrible mess. In this day and age, it’s essential for every single European country to be part of something bigger because we’re really really small if we stand alone. But we went too fast and wanted too much and it’s backfiring. Also, the idea of equal partners is laughable. A country like Germany will always be a “more equal” partner, as we say. Simply because some can blackmail others based on their economic strength.
I agree with everything you say! It’s sad because in an age when finance has gone global, OF COURSE we need supra-national institutions. All the blithering about bygone sovereignty won’t change the facts on the ground. As the City of London is about to find out.
The euro (or perhaps I should call it the euro disaster) will be a big factor, I think, in any Scottish referendum. In the first, they were proposing to retain sterling.
@Sixer
Exactly. Not saying the City can’t survive but at what cost? how many people will have to pay the price? I would say plenty, even if services relocate and bring along existing employees that also means said employees will be forced to relocate or face redundancy.
people’s lives are more than just statistics. They have families, commitments, social structures….etc
Littlemiss – I just read Wolfgang Streeck in Die Zeit from about a week ago (sorry to say my German isn’t up to it and I had to wait for a kind soul to translate) and, if it’s any help in your understanding of all this, I recognised a great deal in what he said about British sensibilities and motivations from sensible Leave voters I’ve spoken to here.
Also important to note what he said about birth rates as they relate to immigration and the refugee crisis – because the UK birth rate is much higher than Germany’s and nowhere near such a problem – YET. This is in part due to non-EU waves of (fecund) immigration that we’ve already had. So we are already kinda where Germany is trying to get to.
Sixer – Was it last week’s print edition? I think I found that online. “Ist der Brexit denn wirklich so schlimm?” I think? Very interesting article with some great points. Thanks! It’s so similar to Germans who are voting AfD. I don’t believe for a second that most would be this angry and disappointed if they felt like their own government waas listening to them. Most people don’t like change and the last 15/20 years were harsh for those who were – in the 80s and 90s – already at an age where they thought they had their lives planned out. I think the fallacy is that the EU (and immigrants/refugees) are the reason for these often brutal changes. They’re not. But our governments have most certainly not helped the situation by pretending everything will be fine because this is the only way. It wasn’t.
Our common currency backed us into a corner though. As someone who’s half Greek and half German, I can’t even begin to tell you how much I have come to hate the Euro. It gave Germany more power over other countries than we could ever imagine and it’s horrifying how we’re treating them. Which is why I have to disagree with Streeck on two issues. I don’t see this EU light happening any time soon, simply because of the Euro. And because we don’t learn. I also don’t believe anyone, least of all Merkel, thought we could solve our demographic problems by “welcoming” refugees. Not like this. She did it because the last thing a German chancellor wants is images of dark-haired children suffering under horrid circumstances in an open field in the middle of Europe. Now we’ve done out part, everybody realized doing the right thing is difficult and they’d rather not, and we can let them rot in Greece like we did before.
I think all things considered, Europe is going in an ugly direction and I don’t know who’s dumber. The people who voted Leave/AfD or people like me, who think we’ll be able to turn it around. … I’m such a ray of sunshine today.
That’s the one. I really like reading Streeck because he’s always looking beyond economics.
Yes to the euro – and to reform being hamstrung by its existence. On the other hand, another plank in my Remain vote. Not in the euro so one of the main drawbacks to membership didn’t apply to us.
Don’t be downcast. This too, shall pass.
@ Sixer
Exactly, Scotland MUST show Westminster that there are other countries in the UK not just England.
But hey, at least that duplicitous s£!t-bag Farage has resigned. I wouldn’t hold my breath as this is only the 999th time he has resigned but one can only hope this one sticks.
Failing that, it might have to be a stake and fire….
Don’t worry, he’ll be suckling the EU’s golden nectar for the remaining 2 years, while being an embarrassment both in quality of participation and attendance.
Lol, bregrexit.
LOL!!!
In the meantime Farage left UKIP…
Please please please don’t let him land a Tory position.
I think its pretty obvious he has been promised a position by one of the MP’s standing for Leadership – trouble is which one?
@ Sonja
Not by Theresa May – that’s for sure, and I pray she wins. A strong woman has to step in to clean up the mess the boys created, ha….so what’s new??!….
I think Leadsom. She refused to deny it on TV yesterday.
I feel so concerned for everyone in Great Britain now, and my thoughts are with you as you sort this out. All of this change must be very scary. Such great people will eventually find their way, I’m sure, but I hope the immediate upheaval isn’t too horrible.
Thank you, GNAT.
I got panicked phone calls from my family back in ‘Murica. They were like “Elaine, are you SAFE?! Are they rounding up the immigrants yet!!”
I was like “Lol. Calm down ‘rents. ‘Tis all copacetic.”
When you’re in the eye of the storm, things feel quite calm. Supermarkets still have brie. Money still works.
My survival tactics include: NOT watching the BBC. Or ITV. Or any news TV. They are panicking and scare-mongering like you wouldn’t believe. I just read read read.
We’ll get a new Prime Minister. And they’ll negotiate Brexit. Or they won’t and maybe just lie some more.
And the new lawsuit trying to stop Brexit, ‘Billionaires against Brexit’ will break the back of democracy or it won’t.
http://order-order.com/2016/07/04/zoopla-behind-anti-brexit-legal-action/
And we’ll be all serfs, working in one giant Apple store 24 hours a day, 7 days a week -or we won’t.
S.ituation
N.ormal
A.ll
f.udged
u.p
*goes to eat some brie*
🙂
See – this is why I like being British, we are as a people incapable of freaking the fuck out about things.
A cup of Tea and being STOIC.
This new bloody Millenium generation are REALLY letting the side down with their’ our liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvesssssssssssss are rrrrrrruuuuuuuuiiiiiined crap.
Lol, well I feel better knowing you are calm.
Elaine/Sonja: i’ll come and sit by you.
All this ridiculous nonsense about something that will not happen and if it does will be done very calmly and not by protesting, ill-informed millenials who apparently believe everything politicians tell them….
Seriously letting the stiff upper lip down.
I can’t believe Sturgeon (i’m keeping that spelling) can peddle such an obvious lie with a straight face. At this point she’s the comedy side-show. Poor Scotland deserves better than Sturgeon.
I can’t believe people would rather not accept a democratic vote than educate themselves and you know…vote!!! What an idea!! What if the new referendum produces the same result? What if it doesn’t and the losing side insists on a new referendum that overturns that one? And on and on we go?
Days (and a few weeks later) and people are still uneducated and sprouting nonsense.
….but you know ‘Brillionaires against Brexit’!!! That’ll show everybody how democracy works.
Elaine,
Are you willing to run for PM? LOL. No, of course not. You’re sane.
@LAK,
It’s those damned memes. People have been raised on memes, especially millennials, their consumption prodigious.
@ Elaine, I agree completely. That stock market free fall was a stock shopping opportunity. Because the values will go back up once everyone chills the eff out and realizes the world didn’t end just because the UK left the EU.
If we had actually left the EU, that might be true. We haven’t left yet, and we’re unlikely to pull the Article 50 trigger for a long time. The markets hate uncertainty. And that’s what they’re going to get for a long, long time to come.
The Queen has nothing to say about politics that why her useless family is still here.
So, shut up Granny Pudding, please.
So, the Queen assumes that Scotland is not calm and collected right now, when it wants to leave the UK. It is calm and collected only when it follows her wishes.
I feel this a last minute statement made in a last minute situation exclusively to preserve her own interests, she would obviously be severely affected if Scotland split. Maybe she could have made a similar suggestion before the Brexit vote if she had thought about the welfare of her ‘subjects’.
No. Much as I am not invested in being nice about Betty Windsor, that is not what she said.
She said the Scottish parliament is behaving sensibly. With the implication that the Westminster parliament isn’t behaving sensibly. She is right on both counts.
I re-read her statement and you are right. She does seem to praise the Scottish Parliament but I still find odd the simple fact that she said words and in this moment.
It seems very self-serving.
If you were sitting here in the UK at the moment, where we have no government and no opposition, you would know EXACTLY what she was saying. And it wasn’t self-serving.
I say this as a fully paid-up republican who thinks she should get in the sea.
But its not the scottish who are not calm and collected. Its the english who are acting effin crazy right now. Why isn’t she telling the Tory or Labour party to be calm and collected?
She can’t go so far as to tell the politicians what to do, at least publicly (although I’d love to be a fly on the wall at her audiences with David Cameron at the moment). What she can do, and what she has done here, is to praise the Scottish parliament for acting sensibly. By implication, the UK parliament is not acting sensibly (which it is not).
What Tina said.
I hope Scotland and northern Ireland do leave. England messed up majorly and now have to deal with the consequences.
woah there. Its *way* too early to decide that “England messed up majorly.” All that has happened was some democracy took place. Just like everyday.
The pound is holding steady. The FTSE has rebounded. Govt’s are lining up to trade with us. Merkel is urging calm and various EU officials are insisting no revenge or punishment need happen. Cameron is leaving a few years earlier than thought, so we’ll have a new Prime minister in two months.
Consequences, yes. But that’s what happens with every decision always and ever. Consequences. You brush your teeth and what are the *consequences*? Clean teeth. Boom.
So, yes.
Leaving a supranational union with only a passing resemblance to democracy= Cleaning your teeth.
Sure! 🙂
The UK construction industry is shrinking at its fastest pace since 2009. The FTSE 100 is not a good gauge of the overall economy because it is artificially inflated by the weak pound. The FTSE 250 is a much better one, and it is sinking like a stone. We’ve lost our AAA credit rating. The pound has settled at an incredibly low level, that’s not “holding steady.”
The only thing that is keeping us going is Mark Carney (God bless him)’s promise of stimulus like an interest rate cut. But even with that, Christine Lagarde says that if we don’t get a Norway-type deal and stay in the EEA, we may see a 4.5% chunk lost out of the UK economy by 2019. This is not good news at all. This is not cleaning our teeth, they are cleaning our clocks.
If you honestly believe that Merkel’s “stay calm, no need to punish people” is her honest opinion and what she’s going to do in negotiations, then you don’t pay a lot of attention to her style of politics.
My brother is an equity partner in a London construction engineering design company. Three multi-million projects he’s working on were mothballed within days of the Brexit vote. One firm. £100m plus of future GDP gone, just like that.
They expect 20% lay-offs of their engineers before the summer is over. These people earn a lot of money. They are our tax base.
One of my friends here in Austria is an English language teacher and his whole industry is in an uproar as English will no longer be an official EU-language if GB leaves the EU. See link below.
So far huge EU funding (he mentioned 2 billion EUR?) was available for English languages courses etc (eg. in the frame of Erasmus). According to my friend they have already started to axe jobs. So in this case this affects the whole EU.
It’s naive to assume that things will continue like before the Brexit.
http://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-official-eu-language-after-brexit-senior-mep/
Uh, have you ever paid attention to Merkel? She looks and acts calm but make no mistake, the woman will cut you if you try to cross her. She’s our very own iron lady, maybe you should talk to Greece about their experiences. But if you don’t know German politics, you don’t know her like we do. She has eliminated every single person in her party who tried to reach for even a fraction of her power or who simply became too popular. The EU can’t be too nice to the UK should they really leave, they simply cannot afford it. I’m not convinced that the UK will leave but if it happens, it’s not just a little bit of harmless democracy taking place and the consequences will be felt by everyone involved.
Tina the construction industry figures are from before the referendum
Spidey, that’s true, but they are having an exaggerated effect due to the Brexit vote and its consequences.
Just a follow up. There are a lot of forecasts, pronouncements, and expectations. Most of them negative. They are just words discussing what might possibly be, maybe. Focus on what has actually happened, rather than potential hailstorms of fiery dragons.
Regarding renegotiation, you can discount supportive statements (Merkel among others), as long as you also disregard negative statements of potentially punitive actions. It all depends on what and who you believe.
Yes the UK was downgraded credit wise. So was the USA a few years ago.
That’s why its important to focus on the positive and on the actual. What do you have? Actually? Where are you? Truly? Safe, in your home or office. Food in the fridge, iguana in your lap. That is real and that is happening.
If you have been wounded and are truly suffering (economically) you have my sympathy.
If however, you are afraid that you might suffer someday, in some way, shape or form I say -yes. You might. Or you might not. We are in a volatile period. EU, USA and the UK. The EU was no utopia of golden coins showered upon riches. 50% unemployment in Greece, Spain, Italy in serious debt and struggling. There may indeed be troubled waters ahead for *everyone*. If you mourn the good times, that is to be expected. Life is change.
This world however, only moves forward. Even now its whirling through space faster than you can even imagine. And yet here you stay on the rocky Earth without being flung off into the stratosphere.
You (westerner, first world) live in a rich country with assets, an educated populace, a functioning government ruled by a system of law and order, in a time of peace*. Be grateful! And now, work, to make it continue. These things take work. But with work, they will continue to work. Work!
(*by peace I mean you aren’t in syria or iraq being bombed.)
The pound is not holding steady. It’s dropping further down every day.
I’ve lived through 2 big economic crises in my country (I’m 29). The biggest one happened in 2001 and our economy was destroyed, was shot off the grid. Our currency depreciated so fast people lost everything. Some of my classmates at school lost their fathers in “special circumstances”. Jobs and pensions were lost. People were homeless. Crime went up. Illegal inmigration did not decrease, so government spending went UP thanks to the welfare state. Our President was ousted and we had no President or VP for like a week after a succession of failed replacements. We basically became the cautionary tale and a global joke.
Our family business went under and was only saved by an injection of family’s savings (we create jobs… if we close down 100 familes are suddenly unemployed and at risk) which left us at square 1, after decades of hard work.
My future has been slashed and rebuilt many times. You do what you can – you find a job, you save what you can, you carry on forwards. The economy starts to rebuild itself until a new wave of idiotic politicians come in.
England and the UK will have to adapt to the consequences of their choice to leave. I’m just sorry some people feel lied to and cheated but can’t believe some voted without even understanding what they were voting on.
@Elaine
A very wise and balanced statement. The sky is always falling in this day and age.
It may be as bad as is feared, it may not. But make no mistake, just because people have not yet lost their jobs or their homes does not mean it is not going to happen. The economy is almost certainly going to contract. We are going into recession. We do need to keep calm and work hard going forward. But this is a self-inflicted wound that did not have to be made.
do not start with that sort of mud throwing crap please – for a start Wales and England voted EXACTLY the same percentage wise, Scotland ran its referendum on STAYING in Europe and Northern Ireland is always in flux – but yeah – go blame the English
Sonja – and specifically don’t blame the “oldies”. It turns out 30% of youngsters
didn’t vote, so all that dreadful blaming of the older, mature, citizens was
odious nonsense, and very upsetting. However, what’s done is done. I don’t care if R or L won, we must stand up and accept the democratic vote and all work
to help our nation. Calm down and have a cup of tea, we’ll get through this.
Also, Kaiser and American friends, you should note that the SNP fought the first referendum on a platform of retaining ER as constitutional monarch and head of state, not getting rid. Presumably, they would also fight a second referendum on that basis, as Brexit doesn’t affect this. What would disappear is the Act of Union between two kingdoms, not the kingdoms themselves.
@Sixer, yes, exactly. A lot of people think leaving the EU is somehow linked to the monarchy, or asking if we leave the EU, why aren’t we getting rid of the monarchy. They’re not linked at all, and the people who want to leave the EU are, if anything, more pro-monarchy than those who wanted to stay.
My sense of shock and horror has not abated much. I do think Theresa May will be as safe a pair of hands as we have, but that’s not saying much.
As an anti-authoritarian, I never thought I’d see the day when I crossed my fingers for Theresa May. I think that is a very sobering reflection on where we are now. Vacated government. Pro-Corbyn cult (and I’m pro-Corbyn in a policy sense myself) thinking internal party bureaucracy trumps democratic mandate obtained from a polling booth. We are lions led by donkeys – not sure Brexit is so much the problem as the gaping chasm in political competency Brexit has revealed.
SIGH.
But on topic – yes. I think the SNP plan was slightly different in that the nation would be embodied in the Scottish people in their new constitution, rather than the amorphous concept of the crown, but ER would still be ER in both countries.
Teresa May is our best bet for a decent trade agreement and smooth EU exit we have and that’s saying something. The woman has balls and I think during the Brexit she will prove to be a capable leader and negociator. And I don’t like to say that about a Tory.
Re Corbyn. He didn’t believe in Bremain and it showed in his half arsed attempts to rally the Labout voters,which was sad as he is hero worshipped by the voters who voted to Leave. He had a great opportunity to turn Labour around and has blown it by failing to unite the party. If he can’t unite and lead his party then he can’t unite and lead his country through the biggest period of uncertainty it will got through for several generations.
I think the Labour situation has gone beyond Corbyn. It’s now a potential constitutional crisis. Whatever one thinks of the man himself, his leadership abilities, or his policy platform, the situation we have at present is that if a General Election were called, and if Labour were to win it, its leader could not constitutionally form a government without the support of his own MPs. We live in a parliamentary democracy. And however one views the PLP, whether as backstabbing traitors or righteous saviours of their party, parliamentary democracy MUST trump factionalism within a political party. That, right there, is how demagogues seize power. Corbyn isn’t a demagogue. But he can’t keep his position by creating a democratic deficit that could potentially allow one in.
Theresa May? Please read this. She as bad as everyone else.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-conservative-party-leader-shes-no-progressive-conservative-a7109121.html
Mira – I ask you to please at least read what people say before speaking. The point being made was a reflection of the state we are in when Theresa May is the best hope for new PM. In no way did anybody praise her. Quite the opposite. We’re placing her in context with arch neo-liberal headbangers like Gove and Leadsom.
As an Indian PhD student studying in Scotland right now, I am terrified of May getting in (which seems likely to happen). This is the same woman who aggressively targeted Non-EU immigration to the UK (because of Free Movement, she couldn’t touch EU immigrants), made it significantly more expensive for students like myself, made it much harder for a Non-EU national like me to get married to my British fiance of 4 years. Remember the nasty ‘ Go Home’ immigration vans in London? Those were her brain child. She said at the last Tory party conference that immigration had close to zero benefits to Britain.
I’m here on a full PhD scholarship at Scotland’s most prestigious university. I earn money lawfully and pay taxes. I am as good as a part of my fiance’s family and I have roots and emotional ties with this country. Politicians like May have perfected the art of characterising immigrants like myself as people whose sole purpose is to earn money in the UK or study. We are simply expected to f*ck off once our courses are done. As if immigrants like me might want to live here simply because we like it here, or have emotional ties with this place.
I can completely understand why May might look like the same choice when both parties are busy cannibalising themselves. However, May is no liberal, and there’s a certain amount of privilege involved in people who are begrudgingly accepting her as a compromise. Someone like me, and there are many like me, don’t have that privilege. For folks like us, someone like May coming into power means getting uprooted from our family ties in the UK.
The choice is not between Theresa May and Justin Trudeau. The choice is between Theresa May, Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom, Stephen Crabb and Liam Fox.
Maya Memsaab – I am truly sorry for your situation. Truly, truly sorry. But don’t take what I said as tacit acceptance of May as a compromise. What I am saying is that we are currently without a government. Thanks to the fixed term parliament act put through by the fools in charge of us in the last administration, there probably will be no General Election here. We won’t get to choose the next PM. The Tory party will. Of all the awful options available – outright extremists like Leadsom, people who think you can pray away the gay like Crabb* – May is the least bad option. I have no choice in this matter. If I did, I promise you I would not choose an authoritarian, possible deporter in May.
* How did we get here? A religious fanatic is in with a chance of becoming PM. IN THE SECULAR UK.
What @ Maya Memsaab said
May is terrifying and has pandered to racism as much as the others. I really don’t see her as the lesser evil.
As a long term English resident of Scotland, I voted for independence the last time and hope to get the chance again. I’m disappointed about the SNP policy of retaining the monarch, but assume that it Is intended not to alienate some older voters who retain a sentimental attachment to the monarchy. I detect very little royalist sentiment in younger Scottish people and that policy may have a limited lifespan. I went to the opening of Parliament on Saturday – I live just round the corner – deliberately avoiding seeing ER, but enjoyed the excellent parade afterwards. It took my mind off the total mess in the rest of the political landscape.
I think you will get your wish: a second referendum is inevitable now, isn’t it? And it should be.
Honestly? Living here in a rural backwater of England where pro-monarchy sentiment is stronger than many areas, even I don’t see much royalist popularity. It’s much more status quo bias – it ain’t particularly broke, so why fix it? Not anything like actual specific approval.
Wanted to add that I am under no illusion that the other Tory candidates are stellar options. I was merely pointing out that May isn’t as much of a ‘lesser evil’ as the media might be making her out to be.
The only saving grace for me personally is that I’m in Scotland, and there might still be some hoping.
@Sixer thanks for your sympathies, and I agree with you completely. I can’t believe that the country is in the absurb situation that May looks like the only sensible option. Labour has been the bigger disappointment, IMO. One expects Tories to be evil. Labour had such a chance to project leadership and sense in a time when the Tories are in chaos. Instead, they choose this time to go to pieces and somehow manage the incredible task of looking like the bigger f*ckups in the face of Brexit. What a complete shambles.
You’re welcome. I’ve been reading stories like yours and weeping. Really.
I say May, not on the basis of thinking her beliefs or policy positions are preferable. I say May for a single reason: competence. If Brexit is to happen, it must be orderly. I am utterly opposed to the ideologies and policy positions of all the Tory candidates. But of all of them, she is the ONLY one with a record of any competence whatsoever in international negotiation.
I hope that makes it clearer! I would hate to be thought of as giving tacit support for her actual views!
@ Maya Memsaab
I disagree.
Theresa May is a liberal WITHIN the Tory party and it is what happens in the Tory party that matters here. She is from the left of the party (Cameron, Heseltine, Major) and not the right (Gove, Bozo, Leadsom).
As a Brit living in the UK, her views as a reluctant ‘Remainer’ mirrors mine and they are valid as immigration is simply NOT working in the way that it should. If it was then Brexit would never have happened. You must understand that the issue of immigration is a REAL ISSUE for many Brits even when it is being hijacked by right-wing loons. Just because it is an issue that doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean it goes away for Brits however privileged we might be.
As for May being the ‘same woman who aggressively targeted Non-EU immigration to the UK (because of Free Movement, she couldn’t touch EU immigrants)’…..WRONG! This was government policy. The Tories knew the only way they could bring down the ridiculous promised immigration figures was to target non-EU migrants (+ students). So they went for it. Again, they did this as a major attempt to head off Brexit.
As for the ‘nasty ‘Go Home’ immigration vans in London’…..whilst not a tactic I would personally have adopted, it was certainly more benign than what was happening to Nigerian/African students in India who were getting attacked and killed with no police intervention or detection. Also, students WERE expected to go home after studying, which funnily enough, I did. I studied abroad and came back home to the UK to get a job. That used to be the expectation for students in many countries.
When it comes to immigration, each country has its cross to bear. At least here in the UK you are safe, maybe a tad uncertain at the moment but definitely safe. So the immigration policy isn’t perfect and it is not 100% fair to 100% people. Sure….so show me a country that has achieved that utopia….
My hope is that once the dust settles and people calm down that all will be well. There will be changes and that is unsettling and understandable. It may take a while to get back to normalcy but that is always the case with change.
Great Britain had every right to vote on this issue. The variables that weighed on this matter are not to be taken lightly. These are troubled times for everyone around the world. I pray the politicians in power can become statesmen to help their countries through these times because the decisions made in the next handful of years will have lasting effects on everyone, not just the Brits.
But will things really calm down now that the face of {racism, etc} is your neighbor or relative? I lived in the UK years ago and am so disappointed that racism/xenophobia was legitimatized through Brexit. Similar to the racism/xenophobia legitimatized under Trump – if he wins I will not be able to look at his supporters as someone just exercising his/her democratic vote. There is something much darker happening …
That’s right, reduce the vote of 17 million people down to xenophobia/racism. Especially comparing it to the Trump issue. Well done!
17 million people are not racists. The vast majority of Leave votes were not racist. But the referendum result has got the tiny minority of open racists in this country believing that 17 million people agree with them. That is the problem – they now feel emboldened. In fact, the most of extreme of them now feel emboldened enough to assassinate an MP in a public street.
The last time I saw such open expressions of racist hostility in this country as we’ve seen posted on the internet since the vote was back in the 1980s, when I was a little girl. Those were the charming times when the minority thought it was ok to call me, a primary school child, a Paki-lover because my little friends were mostly brown.
I REALLY do not want to see those days return.
@sixer
I accept what you are saying BUT
Boris Johnson called black people pickaninnies, says Obama had a grudge against the British due to his Kenyan heritage I/ o to belittle his voice he is willing to use his race against him. That notorious racist leave poster nond of them bothered to stop it. Prominent leave campaigner dismissed the rise in violent attacks on POC and Muslims.
How do people vote for people like that turn around with a straight say they aren’t voting for xenophobics?
The same way that some intelligent people will end up voting for the idiot Trump, even though they hate him and know he’s an idiot. Republicans aren’t giving him money, but they’re admitting they’ll vote for whatever Republican candidate there is.
If you agree with the majority of the platform on one side, you swallow back the rest of it if you cannot stand 90 percent of what is coming from the other side.
(for the record, I’m not a republican and not voting Trump)
Presumably because they have their own, separate reasons for voting Leave. Plenty of reasons to vote Leave – and only one of them is objecting to free movement, which is not, in and of itself, xenophobic.
That said, xenophobia spreads like a virus.
And here we are.
Just to be clear, I did not say everyone is racist, I said they voted for a racist leadership. Its morally irresponsible.
As a POC I can’t “swallow” a racist campaign even if I agree with the majority of the campaign. I can’t just brush that aside as a minor inconvenience.
I would ask you do you think everyone who voted for a facist government in the 30s hated Jews and homosexuals? Many people didn’t realise what they had voted for until it was too late. Economical hardship, restore the Germany’s pride as a great nation. Remind you of something ? People need to learn from history. A weakened EU strengthens a Russia that wants to expand its empire, it strengthens the right wing in your own country. Everyone will be affected. The British don’t live in a bubble. If there’s instability in Europe everyones life will be accepted. EU has its faults but the EU is NOT the reason why so many working class people are poor in England. You need to look to at your own government, lack of upward mobility ingrained in your society.
Just 17 million very stupid people. The truth hurts but if you voted to leave then you are not as bright as you like to think you are. You’ve jeopardised as entire nation for the foreseeable future, much longer than your life span. And for what? Absolutely nothing. People have the right to be angry and scared. Britain is now a sad country with no clout, determined to try and get back to its old colonialist ways. You listened the lies and you believed them. Now youre trying to act like this wasnt the biggest mistake the UK has ever made. Theres no hiding from that. What will happen in the future; the ripping apart of families, the economic downturn (thats already in full swing), the isolation, will not be in my name but it will be in yours. Worst of all, who will you blame for your problems now? You’ve already chucked away the future because you dont like EU migrants, the Muslim community lives in fear too. Who next? Youre running out of options… The youth will not forgive you for what you have done.
Deidre
With all respect, grandmothers, sucking, and eggs. I refer you back to the many comments I made on here during the (racist) London mayoral campaign, warning of the dangers. And, as I have stated many times hereabouts before, and below on this very thread, NOT voting for extreme right-wingers who use racist dog-whistles was one factor why I voted Remain even though I am sceptic of the EU as it is currently constituted.
Regardless of all that, many Leave voters chose that option for national sovereignty. Their answer to you (not mine, because I have other opinions about sovereignty) would be this: you can vote out the racists in a post-Brexit Britain. You can’t vote out the vulture capitalists of the EU who are depressing your wages as a British citizen of any race, orientation or creed.
You really are not seeing the full picture. While I understand your response to a portion of the picture and share it, it is still not the full picture. Nobody, including the vast majority of Leave voters, is looking at outbreaks of racism as a minor inconvenience.
@SpareRibs,
I don’t know where you are in the world, but you are speaking in wild generalisations. Calling all 17 million who voted out stupid is ignorant in itself, and ill-informed. There is as big a variation in those 17 million as there is in the 16 million who voted to remain.
Wild generalisations can also be very dangerous.
@SpareRib.
I guess your assessment that 17 million people are stupid makes you a genius. A youthful one at that, by the sounds of it.
Things are not so black and white. Nor is all lost. To lash out at others who are not hateful acolytes is unfair. Listening to their reasons may actually makes sense if you actually listened.
I would like to thank Kaiser for making a site where so many thoughtful, educated, politically-minded folks come to have reasonable discussion. And Thank You to all of you who come on here, share your stories, and explain things to those of us on the outside looking in. I learn so much from all of you!
Here, here! Come for the TIDDLES, stay for the political discussion! Or the other way round, really.
As someone who lurks *much* more than posts, I have to say I this site and its posters have taught me so much, and consistently given me much food for though about a myriad of issues, serious and gossipy. And for that, I’d like to thank you all. Big hugs to all of you!
That’s right, because there are so many comments here supporting Leave lol.
I consider Sixer intelligent, informed, and well-aware of what is happening around her. As she said above, if times had been more stable she would have voted Leave. That doesn’t make her evil or racist. It means she looked at the whole situation and make a personal choice – by a slim margin – for one side.
I know people on both sides of the issue. The Leave ones aren’t violent, immigrant-hating racists like some of you are portraying. They made a difficult decision about their country for the long run.
I thank you, NOTA.
If times had been more stable, and if I had voted Leave, I would still have been a committed anti-racist and I would still have been pro-immigration and in favour of free movement of people (notice that I say PEOPLE and not LABOUR) between countries. In my post-Brexit utopia, there would be measures in place to prevent free movement depressing wages but there would still be high migration. In my Remain utopia, those measures would be instituted in the EU as it stands.
Because it’s not PEOPLE I object to: it’s unfettered CAPITAL exploiting LABOUR. The problem with the Brexit that we have, as I see it, is that the people who are likely to lead it are extreme right-wingers who are only concerned with the needs of capital. And who have no conscience whatsoever about inciting racism in order to further the needs of capital.
Very big difference between someone who is xenophobic and/or racist who objects to free movement on that basis and to someone who objects to free movement within a trade association that is explicitly set up in a way that will depress wages for the citizens of one or more parties.
“The Leave ones aren’t violent, immigrant-hating racists like some of you are portraying.”
Fair to say, though would qualify by saying “NOT ALL Leave voters are violent immigrant-hating racists…” Clearly some were, but that doesn’t mean all.
However, guilt by association and all that. Difficult choice, speaking as an outsider I wonder if it ever should have been presented that way or brought to a referendum requiring only a simple majority for something with such momentous implications. Badly done, Cameron.
@Who ARe these people?
MOST voters are not immigrant-hating racists. But it is useful and expedient to say so.
It’s been fascinating reading all the comments here. Thoroughly enjoyable and enriching. Thanks y’all.
Meh. What has the queen done for Scotland lately?
I think The Queen does not want Scotland to leave because she knows if they go it can be a great risk to the monarchy in the future and break up the UK, and people will ask do we really need a monarchy.
Strangely (to me), Scotland was voting to be a separate country but going to keep HM as their monarch and defacto head of state. Whether they became independent or not, Queen Elizabeth was going to be their monarch.
Huh. So they’d kinda be like Canada. Though she’s not our monarch per se, she’s “head of state.” Go figure.
As a Canadian now, I frankly don’t understand the inability to cut the ties with the queen as head of state. What’s the down side?
hmmm Dunno! Someone who’s been here longer might have a better answer. Maybe it’s inertia. There are probably enough ‘loyalists – monarchists’ to have a problem with it, too.
Yup, inertia. No one cares enough to do anything about it, and even if they did, it would involve constitutional reform, which no one wants to touch.
Hats off to the Brits. They made Brexit even more entertaining than that clown Trump.
To 17/60 million Brits. Sadly, the majority of Britons didnt want this but were too young/too apathetic to vote.
But if they didn’t vote how do you know what they wanted?
U.K. Seems like a horrible mess right now. Was thinking of studying there next year. Not taking the chance as I am mixed raced and foreign they’ll probably kick me out whenever that brexit deal is finalised. Gonna look at Germany or Scandinavia instead, somewhere stable.
Deirdre, I don’t blame you in the slightest. But as someone who works in UK HE, I can reassure you that we value and want our EU and international students immeasurably. If you have any interest in a university in a city (especially London) you are very unlikely to have a bad experience here.
Hear….Hear!
Go on Deirdre, come to my city London, as cosmopolitan as you will find NY and thoroughly delightful. I did my further studies here and it was a blast. You’ll love it….:-)
Dublin – EU- has excellent universities and with your name you would fit right in Deirdre.
Deirdre,
Seriously? I don’t understand your reasoning. At. All. Actually, I see no reasoning.
A lot of the ‘racism’ around Brexit was about white immigrants who were ‘stealing jobs’ [the logic of racists is never that great]. The UK has a very varied population – there have been Indian migrants settling there since the 18th century who are now many generations deep. British of Indian descent are just a portion of the varied demographics.
If you were so interested in study in the UK, wouldn’t you do a small amount of research into what the countries are actually like rather than base your judgements on a few poorly written articles or Buzzfeed quizzes? “Omg lol should you study in London?” You got “You are ‘foreign’ so NO WAY JOSE!! lol sideboob”
If she didn’t comment before now, why comment at all? Has the likelihood arisen that events might affect her personally?
The Queen’s mother was Scottish, so I’d bet she’s not keen on the idea of Scottish independence.
As a Scot, I wish wee Jimmy Krankie (Nicola sturgeon) would stop posturing and get on with the job she was elected to do which is to govern Scotland. The people of Scotland voted to stay within the UK and do not need a second Indy referendum. Although most of Scotland voted to remain within the EU, Scotland is not a member of the EU, the U.K is the member and it is a UK issue to leave or not. London voted to remain. By Sturgeon’s logic, it should become an independent city state and then join the EU. The SNP have always been a one policy party and although HM should not be getting involved in government matters as she is unelected I have to agree with her view that the Scottish govt should keep calm and get on with their jobs.
Still think they will leave
They should, and will, vote to leave then rejoin the EU. Let England and Wales sink under the mistakes they’ve made. I for one cant wait to use my new Scottish passport to travel freely in Europe again. I didnt vote for this mess, I’m not going to be dragged down with it.
@ SpareRib. Brits were allowed to go to Europe before they joined the EU
@Cerys – LOL@ ‘wee Jimmy Krankie’. 😀
Got to say, as someone who really admired Sturgeon in the past, she’s really started to disappoint. But then, there’s so much to be disappointed by at the moment, not least the notion that the ice cold, unfeeling Teresa May is now regarded as a safe pair of hands. Jesus wept.
I’m sitting tight in North London, grateful for the small mercy that is my local MP. Corbyn may not be to everyone’s taste but, in this fucked-up mess of lying and self-serving backstabbing, he is a true breath of dignified fresh air.
But can he do the job?
I hope Scotland can become independent they are more moderate people it’s not fair on them. All the best to Scotland.
Bit of a sweeping generalisation.
Yeah really moderate that’s why the Yanks are sending over their Police from all the most Violent Cities to learn how to scare the living hell out of the proles as the bobbies do in Scotland.
Scotland has never been moderate, they pride themselves on not being moderate – ehat did you do – go read some 5 facts about Scotland Buzzfeed article and come back here to comment? lol
I’m not sure what you are referring to in respect of the “polis” as we call them in Scotland Sonja. Certainly the number of people shot dead by the Scottish police is minuscule, far smaller than the number of such shootings in the US. As for not being moderate – I’m not sure what you mean by that either. It depends on what you mean by moderate I suppose. I haven’t read any buzzfeed articles but I have lived in Scotland on and off for over 35 years. I think it’s hard to generalise about the characteristics of any country but I wouldn’t live anywhere else now.
@ Annetommy
Can you tell me if the Scots’ attitude to independence changed after the drop on oil prices soon after the referendum, or did it not make any difference?
I am not sure it made a huge difference spidey. I think those that saw economic turmoil after independence felt vindicated, but they had voted no in any case. The yes vote I think regarded it as a shame which had a negative impact on people’s jobs (especially in the Aberdeen area), but I don’t think it fundamentally impacted on their wish for nationhood. I think it also brought home to people that Scotland had not benefited hugely when prices were high – some individuals had, and their spending supported some service industries – but if I recall the figures correctly Scotland got less than 10 percent of the revenue in the boom years. People contrast that with Norway, a small but independent country, which salted away the dosh in the good years and were able to call on it in the bad years. That was not really possible in Scotland as it was part of the general revenue. That’s rather a rambling answer I’m afraid!
Thanks for your reply, it is appreciated.
I wonder what would happen if Scotland held its new referendum, voted to separate itself from Great Britain, and then Westminister decided not to invoke Article 50? Timing is everything.
I’ve been working for a couple of years to try to establish my right to Irish citizenship, mostly to get access to the EU and particularly the UK. Since it doesn’t look like I’m going to be able to make it work (darn it, granny, why’d you pick 1885 to be born?) , it’s all moot. Back to being a tourist!
1885?? Sorry don’t get the reference…
I too am looking to obtain Irish nationality to remain in the EU. Now if I could just locate an Irish ancestor….! Located a Dutch one ages ago so that might do.
They do say when you go digging for family you should be very careful as you can never be too sure about what’s going to be regurgitated….
Yeah her reign ruined the kingdom. That’s gonna be a rough one for the history books. But to be fair she is quite crap. I mean I get it she can’t say anything about politics but come out and say something to your citizens who are tearing each other apart. People are laughing about David Cameron creating civil war, this is the Monarch who sat on the throne as the kingdom of Great Britain tore itself apart. And sat quietly whilst it did so. Good going there Lizzie.