Viggo Mortensen: ‘I trust Hillary about as much as I trust Donald Trump’

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Here are some photos of Viggo Mortensen at the June premiere of Captain Fantastic, his latest indie film. The movie is getting good-to-great reviews, and there’s even some hope that it can become one of the indie darlings to really break through this year, and possibly get some bigger awards-season heat. To promote the film, Viggo gave an interview to the Daily Beast – you can read the full piece here. He chats about the film, the politics of the film, and then he gets into his support of Bernie Sanders, and where he’s going now that Bernie is out. Here are some highlights from the piece:

He does full-frontal nudity in the film: “There’s a problem with nudity in the United States… It’s not even. It’s not even. There’s the issue of violence versus nudity. We have no problem in video games or on TV shows or in movies of showing kids beheadings and massive shootings, yet you can’t swear or can’t see a male or female body. It seems odd, and doesn’t seem healthy.”

Broaden our perspectives: “We need to broaden our perspectives and our points of view to see what other people think—to consider the arguments of people we instinctively don’t agree with—but people just stay in their camps and do research on what they already believe in. And you have politicians say things like, ‘Oh, you don’t have to pay attention to those others. Just trust me, ignore them.’ ‘Just watch Fox’ or ‘just watch MSNBC.’ I think this movie is striking a chord because it touches on something that’s happening in the country: on the lack of social cohesion and the communication problems we have.”

On Donald Trump & the GOP: “He’s only saying in cruder terms what really started with Reagan, but then took flight with Gingrich in ’94: the polarizing, race-baiting rhetoric of the Republican Party for the last several decades is coming home to roost. Trump is the logical conclusion. He’s not very nuanced in his diatribes, but he’s not saying anything very different than what [Paul] Ryan, [John] Boehner, [Dick] Cheney, and [Mitch] McConnell are saying. All of these guys have been engaging in the same divisive, racist politics.”

He’s voting for Jill Stein now: “If you want a woman then vote for Jill Stein. If you really want a woman president—if that’s what you want—vote for Jill Stein. I trust Hillary about as much as I trust Donald Trump. I think she’s dishonest, I don’t think she has the interests of working people at heart, and I think she’s shown that time and again. All the things that Bernie Sanders said about her I agree with…Yeah, I was a Bernie supporter. And I know the argument is, ‘Yes, if you vote for Jill Stein you’re giving Trump a chance.’ The Nader argument. But you know, at some point it’s got to change. We should have a parliamentary system. It’s really got to change.”

[From The Daily Beast]

My reaction when I encounter Bernie Bros who are in the “Never Hillary” camp is to just walk away. Like, what possible argument is there to be made? That Bernie and Hillary basically agreed with each other about 90% of the issues? That Hillary has faced three decades of the worst kind of negative-media blitz and that blitz still affects perceptions of her to this day? But all of that will just lead to an argument that would go nowhere. I suspect that there are a lot of Bernie Bros who will throw away their votes on third-party candidates because they’re making false equivalencies between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, as in “they both suck, I’ll vote for someone else.” And that blows my mind. Like, how do people look at Donald Trump and not want to do everything in their power to ensure that he never, ever wins the presidency? Whatever you think of Hillary – and she’s not my favorite, but I agree with her on many things – how are you not chilled to the bone at the idea of a President Trump?

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Photos courtesy of WENN.

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214 Responses to “Viggo Mortensen: ‘I trust Hillary about as much as I trust Donald Trump’”

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  1. Tanguerita says:

    what an utter disappointment.

    • Farrahh says:

      I always think the people who are running with that Bernie or bust crap are the ones who have nothing to lose being under a racist, mysogynistic, anti-gay demogogue like Trump. Of course you don’t care if it doesn’t affect you, being a straight white male affords you the ability to be “picky” with your vote. Some of us don’t have that option when it’s our rights that will be taken away.

      • Evie says:

        Excellent point!! You may not like Hillary, but it’s about being realistic. There are only two options at this point in the race. And I’d much rather vote for Hillary than let Trump have a shot at winning.

      • mia girl says:

        That’s an interesting and valid point.
        And specifically for Viggo (who I am a fan of) he does not need to live here should Trump become president. He spends most of his time living abroad. Should Trump win, he can easily take off but the rest of us will have to live with it every day.

      • Alyce says:

        This!!! Everyone in my life that is Bernie or Bust is a healthy, white, straight, middle to mid-upper class, man. It’s easy to vote your preference when you aren’t going to be the one paying for a Trump Presidency.

        It is the ill or differently abled, women, gays, and all the non-white citizens of this country whose lives will be negatively effected by Trump. Well… Unless he starts a nuclear war. Then we’re all done for.

      • Kitten says:

        I completely agree. They are coming at the issue from a place of pure privilege.

      • lucy2 says:

        Straight white RICH male. Viggo checks all of the privilege boxes.

        And the “if you want to vote for a woman” comment is bugging me as well.

      • Keaton says:

        This!

      • Tiffany :) says:

        I completely agree.

        And when people pretend that a vote for 3rd party isn’t “technically” a vote for Trump, they fail to realize that elections are a zero sum game.

      • LinaLamont says:

        I have the means to go where I have to to get birth control and/or an abortion, if need be and I so choose. Others don’t.

        It’s bigger than that. I can’t even say how enraged I get. I have an IQ 10x that of these eggplants (mostly men) telling me what I can or can’t do with my body.
        I’ll be damned if I’m going let a bunch of troglodytes hold sway over me. Frankly, ALL women should feel the same. All women should WANT to CHOOSE what to do with their bodies. Women’s Equality. This trickles down, up, sideways. ..Racial Equality…Religious Freedom as in Separation of Church and State…these are issues that shouldn’t even be issues at this point in history, but, the Reps want to drag (catapult) is back to the 60s, 1800s…and, beyond.

        Gun control.

        SCOTUS

        Yes. These Bernie or Bust people (Bernie included) are so self-serving and/or delusional.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        What I don’t understand is this: Bernie endorsed Hillary, not Jill Stein. He could have endorsed Stein. He didn’t.

        I don’t follow the logic of believing everything Bernie says right up to the point of his biggest conclusion about the election.

      • TG says:

        You guys need to get out more; there is an entire masse of POC (of all ages and gender idea ties) who are categorically against Super Predator Hillary Clinton.
        Also, stating that Bernie and Hillary agree on 90% of the issues is an outright fallacy and I’m embarrassed to even read that here.

      • Dangles says:

        Rubbish. My son is gay and i still wouldn’t vote for Clinton.

      • olcranky says:

        contrary to the belief of the bernieorbust/jill stein crowd, a protest vote without consideration of the very real consequences does not show that you are, in any way, being true to or showing support for your progressive values.

        http://qz.com/717255/ethicists-say-voting-with-your-heart-without-a-care-about-the-consequences-is-actually-immoral/

      • Tiffany :) says:

        TG, “getting out more” doesn’t give a person an accurate reflection of whether an opinion is held by millions of people across the country. The primary process and scientific polling show that POC in general support Hillary.

    • uninspired username says:

      “And I’d much rather vote for Hillary than let Trump have a shot at winning.”

      Same and I initially supported Sanders.

      • Annetommy says:

        Totally agree. Hillary is far from ideal but to equate her in any way with Trump is ridiculous. There might be some point in sticking to principles – generally admirable – if there was some sort of European-style coalition on the cards, when a Sanders-led group would be able to influence / curb a Hillary-led government. But there isn’t. It’s one or t’other. If the worst comes to pass, I hope all these highminded “sticking to my principles irrespective” people are prepared to admit that they opened the door for Trump. But I sincerely hope that Americans will step back from voting for a dangerous moron.

    • Alex says:

      Seriously.

      And my GOD am I tired of straight white people, especially men, saying this kind of crap. It must be so nice to have nothing to personally lose by helping Trump/Pence to the WH by refusing to vote/GOTV for the Democratic nominee. The rest of us — people of color, women, LGBT, Latinos, Jews, American Indians — have fcking everything to lose if he gets elected.

    • Yourmom says:

      U guys are all to disillusioned. Hillary will shrink the middle class even further than obama did. And make the rich richer and the monorities enslaved by welfare.Hes absolutely right about her. A power hungry , lying psychopath!

      • Annetommy says:

        Really? A psychopath? More amateur psychology. I see no evidence of psychopathic tendencies in Hillary.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        The shrinking of the middle class wasn’t something “Obama did”. It was set into action decades ago, with the GOP attacks on unions and worker rights.

      • olcranky says:

        Trump and the GOP want to bring back the days of feudalism in which the church was the way to police the unwashed masses

        Have you read the GOP platform? Do you realize the next POTUS will name at least 1 and possibly up to 4 justices to the Supreme Court?

      • hmmm says:

        That’s ironic. We have a full blown psychopath on our hands, the genuine article, and you don’t even see him. They’re so good at that.

    • sherry says:

      The truth is, if he resides in either New York or California, Hillary will win those state’s electoral votes just as my Libertarian vote won’t change the fact that Trump will win Tennessee’s electoral votes.

      It’s not going to be close in states that are blue or red (for instance, you’re not going to see Texas going for Hillary). If he lived in Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania his vote might help swing the state, but not in solidly blue/red states.

      When you live in state that is solidly one or the other, you have the “luxury” of voting your conscience.

      • xpresson says:

        It amazes me how America still has that electoral vote system. I remember when W Bush won the electoral college vote but lost in the overall Total votes yet he was elected president!

      • olcranky says:

        the electoral system is so antiquated, for the life of me I don’t know why there hasn’t been a huge movement to get rid of it – especially after Bush v Gore

    • Ravensdaughter says:

      Think of his alter-ego Captain Fantastic, who eschews anything establishment. Hillary is nothing if not establishment. You can leave it at that or point out that as an establishment candidate, she is a comforting and stable counterpoint to Renegade Donald.
      In the end…sob!…I can’t give up my Viggo!

  2. AlleyCat says:

    It not only blows my mind, it enrages me. Hilary is not equal to Donald trump. She would not have been my choice for a democratic candidate, but here we are. Choosing a third party candidate is basically giving your vote to Trump. STFU.

  3. JulieM says:

    Sorry Viggo, go suck an egg.

  4. Esmom says:

    Yeah, no. As Kaiser said, we all need to do everything we can to make sure Trump doesn’t take office. Voting for Jill Stein will not help this. How can people still not get this???

    • doofus says:

      yeah, I’m so tired of hearing “don’t tell me how to vote, I’m going to MAKE MY VOICE HEARD!!!!”

      except no, your voice ISN’T being heard with a third-party vote. call it whatever you want…a “protest” vote or whatever…bottom line is you’re giving your vote to Drumpf.

      • SusanneToo says:

        But these special snowflakes are standing on their PRINCIPLES donchuknow? Everybody else be damned, they’re so PURE, they can’t be bought. Take a seat, please.

      • Kitten says:

        THIS. Kaiser said it best: “Like, how do people look at Donald Trump and not want to do everything in their power to ensure that he never, ever wins the presidency?”

      • Saraya says:

        “Like, how do people look at Donald Trump and not want to do everything in their power to ensure that he never, ever wins the presidency?”

        By looking at Hillary Clinton.

      • Kitten says:

        @ Saraya-Ah you’re a Trump supporter….explains a lot.

      • Betti says:

        Look where the ‘protest’ voters got us in the UK – i know a lot of people who voted to leave purely on protest. They said they didn’t expect to win or really wanted to leave the EU.

        Moral is: DO NOT WASTE YOUR VOTE, its too precious a thing.

      • Rich says:

        A Dufus calling someone else Dumpf! You people are SICK IN THE HEAD.. You NEED help.. They have doctors for your kind of utter stupidity!! You HILDEBEAST “FOLLOWERS” are F^$^%%#^% Unbelievable!! LYING, MONEY LAUNDERING, MURDERING, CLASSLESS, PIECE OF TRASH,, actually that’s a slight on Trash.. She has been the CENTER of more scandals than ALL U.S. Presidents COMBINED! Yes, America needs the MOST corrupt to the core career criminal ever to walk the face of the Earth! I THINK NOT! You can stay non your little delusional board here and TELL your foolishness to eachother.. BUT I CAN GUARANTEE HILDEBEAST/FAUX PO WILL not get anywhere near the White House!.. Only complete IMBECILES, Or Helen Kellers reincarnated are voting this biggest DISASTER know to man… She is NOT Sophisticated enough to deal with EMAIL.. If you morons think for ONE SECOND.. America “agrees” with you.. You ARE SADLY…..SADLY… MISTAKEN! TRUMP 2016.. THE CHOICE AND THE ONLY CHOICE!

    • Lindsay says:

      Voting Jill Stein is hardly throwing your vote away (especially in solidly red or blue states) if she gets 5% of the national vote then her party gets federal funding and promotion and could end the two party problem he mentioned.

      • Kimble says:

        Stop throwing out pesky facts. You know the best way to v win over a Bernie Supporter is to insult them and call them stupid (eyeroll)

  5. JustCrimmles says:

    This election seems to be bringing out the inner child in everyone. In the worst possible way.

  6. Locke Lamora says:

    While Bernie was the best choice, not voting for Hilary now is simply moronic.

    • NGBoston says:

      I feel like I should be way more excited at the prospect of having the first Woman ever in history to be our Commander-in-Chief. I’m just not for many reasons.

      Hillary is corrupt, she lies her ass off and this is our only choice to avoid putting Trump in office???

      So, I’m forced to vote for someone I don’t want who I believe does not connect with Middle Class America?? FFS, I’m staying out of the voting booth for the first time in decades I’m so disillusioned.

      This sucks.

      =(

    • Capt. Mo says:

      So what? Are we just going to be forced every election between crazy and evil EVERY election? What’s the point of democracy when the nomination/election process is rigged to the point where we basically have no choice?

      Donald Trump would be just another meatbag in a long legacy of old white male “commander-in-chiefs”. Hilary is a terrible example of women and would taint the legacy of the 1st women president like Margaret Thatcher did.

      Hilary Clinton “agreeing” with 90% of Bernie Sanders issues is absolutely lip service to the democrat voters and her only true constituents are the ones with cash money for her purse.

      • Locke Lamora says:

        Yes? Pretty much every election is a choice between bad and worse. This is the real world, not a Sorkin movie where politicians are fair and just and in it for the small people. Hey’re all in it for themselves, you just have to choose he lesser evil. Bernie actually seemed like someone who had integrity, but he didn’t make it. Hilary is all that is left.

      • Lydia says:

        YESSSS. Thank you for being the voice of reason! From hear on out, our choices will be just as bad or worse if we don’t do something now.
        Time for a third (and maybe fourth) party!

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Elections are a zero sum game. As much as you’d like to think that a vote for someone other than Hillary won’t help Trump…it doesn’t play out factually. A vote for anyone other than Hillary DOES absolutely help Trump.

      • olcranky says:

        you can move the democrats and the country to the left if you play the long game. all you need to do is see what the religious wingnuts did to the GOP. they started with people on school boards and worked their way up. The progressives need to stop this holier than thou “I will not vote for a Dem if it’s not Bernie” attitude and make sure the GOP does not take the white house or their opportunity to yank left will be something for future generations to do after they finally win the battle to bring us from the 18th century backwater the GOP will turn us into back to the 21st.

      • hmmm says:

        Well said, olcranky. It’s the truth. Once we’re taken over by the fascists, try climbing out of that repressive dungeon to have your progressive voice heard.

  7. Who ARE these people? says:

    I agree with him about Trump being the ultimate expression of the Republican ideology for the past few decades and think it’s important to remember this, to not feel sorry for Republicans but hold them accountable for their creation of the monster.

    I detest his statement about voting for Jill Stein. He implies that voters who support Clinton support her because she’s a woman. “If you want a woman, vote for Jill Stein” is patronizing.

    • Evie says:

      Agree with your Jill Stein/”if you want a woman” comment. It’s insulting when people think that is the only reason why a woman would vote for a female candidate!

    • doofus says:

      agree with both of your statements. It IS what the rest of the GOP has been doing for decades, just in much more subtle language. When McCain was running, it was that Obama wasn’t “one of us”…whereas NOW, they’ll just straight up call him the N word.

      and a double YES! on the second part. a vagina is not the only reason people are voting for Clinton. Ugh, Viggo, I used to like you…

    • Sam says:

      Yeah. Especially since Jill Stein holds some pretty sideways views herself. Maybe I don’t want to vote for a candidate who has bought into anti-vaccine ideas like she has? (And it’s worse because she’s an actual medical doctor who, while paying lip service to all the good vaccines do, still says “we need more research, we need to study this more.”) Maybe we don’t WANT to vote for Stein and actually prefer Hillary. Shocking!

      • Hilary says:

        Jill Stein is a Harvard educated Doctor and the most qualified candidate running. If we vote for the lesser evil we will continue to get what we’ve gotten: endless wars and environmental destruction. Please do some research on all the candidates before you start spreading lies about them.

      • Sam says:

        Hilary: I don’t think a Harvard degree is worth much when you use it to forment suspicion of legitimate medicine.

        And, uh, you might want to check the “lies.” As per Wikipedia:

        “Stein has stated that “vaccines in general have made a huge contribution to public health,” but suggested that it is reasonable to be skeptical of mandatory vaccinations due to allegedly close connections between corporate interests and regulatory agencies.[117] Regarding homeopathic medicine, which the Green Party supports “the teaching, funding and practice of”, Stein has argued that “just because something is untested doesn’t mean it’s safe”, but it is problematic that “agencies tied to big pharma and the chemical industry” test medicines.[117]”

        So…yeah. She’s a quack.

    • Kitten says:

      Yee that was some quintessential mansplaining right there.

  8. Mia4s says:

    Viggo, shut up. For all your artsy, new age, poet, outsider BS you are basically just another privileged middle-aged white man.. Yeah…you’ll be fine under a Trump (shadow Paul Ryan) anti-progressive agenda. Clearly you don’t give a damn for the women, immigrants, and POC who won’t be. What a fool.

  9. Insomniac says:

    Ew. Well, that’s one less celebrity crush for me. It’s so nice for these rich and sheltered celebs to hope that Trump wins and brings on a revolution when they’ll be protected from the consequences of it.

  10. Micki says:

    I think he is right about Clinton and Trump.

    …” how are you not chilled to the bone at the idea of a President Trump?”…
    I am chilled to the bone at the idea of President Clinton too because she seems to be trigger-happy and unafraid of starting a global war.

    • Esmom says:

      “she seems to be trigger-happy and unafraid of starting a global war”

      Are you kidding me? With all we have heard from Trump, how can you not think this phrase doesn’t apply to him?

      Please give me examples of how you think this applies to HRC.

      • Splosh says:

        “Please give me examples of how you think this applies to HRC.”

        Are you serious? She was an absolute disaster as Secretary of State.
        Starting with Syria which she was rooting for war (according to her emails, she wanted Assad removed not for the Syrians but to put another in place that wasn’t so close to Iran). If she cared about Syrians, then why were pleas to help in the massive food shortage due to a 2 year drought falling on deaf ears? Libya… she pretended not to realise that the regime change her and Obama wanted would be a disaster. Gaddafi was an a##, but even the most simple person would know that Libya is 4 tribal and the outcome would be catastrophic. Not to mention she ignored Gaddafi who said there was an outside force driving this (he referred to ISIS but at that time they weren’t well known and Gaddafi didn’t know them by name), and that Gaddafi wanted negotiations, but Obama and Clinton were determined that he had to go because they needed more black stuff. And it was so tactful of her to laugh and make jokes on TV when she heard he died… “We came, we saw…. He died” That was so funny wasn’t it, really befitting of a president. Moving on to the disastrous pull out of Iraq (and Clinton claiming great business opportunities to be had there) and the vacuum which was filled, same goes with Afghanistan. What hand did Obama and Clinton have in the coups in Honduras, Haiti, Paraguay? Somehow all 3 were fully supported and in Honduras’s case continued funding. You think there is less chance of war? Both are war mongers.

      • that time when says:

        @ Splosh: Paragraph spacing is your friend. Because that was an epic text wall.

        I’m also not seeing anything in what you wrote that sets HRC apart from her male counterparts. Or that puts her on par with Donald Trump or anyone in the Republican Party in terms of war mongering. You really need to try harder. I’m sure Donald Trump’s website, or any of the Republican propaganda news outlets, would be great for some additional sound bites. Happy hunting.

      • Splosh says:

        @that time when – You are the exact same side of the coin as those you detest so much. Your blinkers are on so tight it effects your ability to comprehend, which the same goes for the poster I was replying to.

        I quoted the part I was replying to, which was to give examples of Clinton’s trigger happy ability. I gave several examples of her ability to start wars outside US. You can’t refute it, try as you might, it is part of history just the same way as Colin Powell has Iraq in his resume. Instead you throw your toys out of the pram and tried to imply I am some sort of Trump/Republican supporter. And it has sod all to do with gender, so why mention this?

        No one has said Trump is not a War monger. Neither the Op or me.
        The OP said “I am chilled to the bone at the idea of President Clinton too” – see that “too” there? That shows the poster thought Trump was just as bad. See my “Both are war mongers.” that states I think Both are war mongers. However, Trump (at this stage) is only hot air, Clinton has actually done it.

        I am not American so, I have absolutely no horse in this race. From the outside both candidates will be appalling to those outside the US and I can expect more blood shed and American exceptionalism.

    • Who ARE these people? says:

      Oh right, the “war-monger Hillary” meme for a candidate who was the country’s top DIPLOMAT for four years. Like many others, I don’t forget her vote for the Iraq war, and think it was a craven political decision, but she was far from the only Democrat voting in support of and we don’t call them all war-mongers.

      Anyway, the choice isn’t Clinton versus Gandhi. The choice is Clinton versus Trump. Compared to Trump she’s the ‘peace & love’ candidate.

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        I feel her vote was calculating rather than craven. I think her campaign positions blow which ever way the wind of popularity takes her, but I will still vote for her over Donald Rump, because the reality is that abstaining from voting or supporting a third party candidate IS a vote for The Rump.

        Most of Viggo’s quotes could’ve been written by Doc ‘Fly. The Nader argument, especially, is so frustrating to me, but at the same time I’m chuckling because I have always loved Viggo so, and their feelings and positions are so similar. lol.

      • Luca76 says:

        How in the hell do you expect that the Senator from NEW YORK STATE the only place in the US that’s actually been attacked by terrorists to vote when the president was claiming to be going after the terrorists only a few months after 9/11???? She was in a corner and she had to do it. I say this as someone who was so against the war that I went to DC to protest the vote.
        She’s also was one of the voices against drones within the Cabinet according to some reports but we don’t like to talk about droning do we?

      • Who ARE these people? says:

        Just one correction, the Pentagon (Northern Virginia) was also attacked by a plane on 9/11, and passengers forced the third hijacked plane down in Pennsylvania.

        OK, I’d change the statement to a “calculated” vote, too. And hers was far from the only one. And I’m voting for her.

      • Luca76 says:

        @watp thanks I apologize about that thoughtless omission.

    • Insomniac says:

      YMMV. I’m a lot more chilled by the prospect of President Trump stacking the Supreme Court with anti-choice, anti-gay justices.

    • uninspired username says:

      Esmom: Drumpf has publically advocated for crimes against humanity. I’m not trying to suggest that Clinton is some sort of pacifist but wtf.

      • Who ARE these people? says:

        And the US doesn’t have pacifist presidents…occasionally an isolationist, but usually that ends in military involvement too.

  11. dr mantis toboggan says:

    Dang viggo, I thought better of you. I will still be going to see this nudity you speak of, out of protest … Or something

  12. grabbyhands says:

    Have a good time smugly blogging abut it on selfrighteous.com when Trump wins because you threw your vote away on a third party candidate.

    But hey, what worries will you have anyway? You’re a wealthy white man and have little to fear from the consequences you’ll bring down on everyone else’s shoulders by a Trump presidency.

    • Hilary says:

      I meet very few rich, white men at Green Party meetings. That’s not really our demographic.

      • grabbyhands says:

        It doesn’t matter if he fits the green party demographic or not. It is typical white (male) privilege tone deafness about things that he doesn’t actually have to worry about so it is really easy for him to be cavalier abut voting for Jill Stein ( you know, if you HAVE to vote for a woman, as he says) when he will not be affected to any great degree by the extreme harmful policies of Donald Trump.

  13. Marshmellow says:

    Just curious, what did you guys think when FBI director Coney basically confirmed that Clinton had been lying the whole time to the public about her emails??

    • Who ARE these people? says:

      Just curious, why are you trolling us about the email issue when it pales in comparison to all the vile bigotry, discrimination and violence (let alone economic disaster) promised to us by a Trump presidency?

    • Shrike says:

      I’ll take that sealion bait and run with it.

      The state department has mishandled information in one way or another over decades, due to an inability or unwillingness to update itself with current technology or law in an effective manner. The mistakes, witting and unwitting, that Clinton made as head of that department are the latest compounding of issues that have been there before her and will be there after her.

      It’s essentially throwing her under the bus for an established system’s method of abuse, a scapegoating instead of flaying open the actual problem – the system itself- and addressing it from the ground up.

      And the two Guccifers claiming they hacked in are utterly full of it. The first Guccifer seeped into the light courtesy of a mad gadfly known as Sorcha Faal, an instafail when it comes to credibility.

    • Kitten says:

      Because the investigation feels like a politically-motivated personal vendetta with very strong whiffs of misogyny.
      Notice that nobody gave a f*ck when Dubs did it.

      http://www.salon.com/2015/03/12/the_george_w_bush_email_scandal_the_media_has_conveniently_forgotten_partner/

      • doofus says:

        or when Condi and Powell had private email servers a S.o.S.

      • Marshmellow says:

        The problem is with the lying not the action, when caught why not just say yeah I sent some classified material and it was a mistake instead of lying and being called out on it after. I’m not anti Hillary by any means and I’m not trolling as the commentor above says. It just frustrates me that Hillary is always shooting herself in the foot. Why keep giving Trump supporters justification – they keep saying she’s dishonest and now they have something to point to.

      • Kitten says:

        @ Marshmellow-You don’t honestly believe that this would have all just gone away if she had come clean about it, do you?

        Reminder: we just wrapped up Benghazi Investigation: Round…8?

  14. Neha says:

    The truth is that “Bernie or bust” folks are those that are privileged enough that their lives aren’t really going to change if Trump is president. They’re lucky enough to be white, male, and rich. It’s the rest of us that are screwed if he wins, but they are too self absorbed to see that or care.

    Thank god he’s from CA and not a swing state, so I don’t have to waste my energy being angry at him.

    • Who ARE these people? says:

      Well, if the world blows up, he’ll blow up with it too. But he thinks his wealth and demographics can protect him.

    • Hilary says:

      They’re all white and rich and male? Thanks for letting me know. I will let my black, lesbian friend in Texas know she has just moved up on the social ladder.

      And which candidate is from CA? I must’ve missed that.

      • SusanneToo says:

        CA will go for Hillary so his vote won’t matter.

      • Naya says:

        Your friend is in the minority uf she is indeed a black lesbian in that camp. Incidentally, as a black woman myself, I would love to have a chat with her. Does she not understand the stakes or does she think she is somehow insulated from the consequences of a TP victory?

      • Franklymydear... says:

        I think she meant Viggo is from CA.

        Going to be some ugly times coming in the next few months. Continuing to love my Republican friends and family voting for Trump, but I can’t understand their reasoning and decision making. I know they are good people who help others, so I don’t know why they would vote for someone who clearly holds most Americans in such contempt. Hoping we can weather the storm as one!

    • Lydia says:

      Why do people keep saying its only males that are Bernie or Bust? Jesus Christ. I’m a female, as are most Bernie supporters I know… Having Trump as a president absolutely negatively effects us. But we are not going to vote for Hilary, because she negatively effects us as well. Just in different kinds of ways.

      I’m thinking long term- how to fix the world before it gets too late to do so? I’m thinking about my future kids and grandkids.

      Doing the same old thing is not going to do that. Change- real change- standing up and saying no- uniting- it’s the only way.

      Please, at the very least, understand that many, maaaany Bernie supporters are not male, and we understand the issues affecting people of gender and race clearly. We are seeking a long term change for the better, not a short term save-me-from-this-vile-dickhead-even-though-in-4-years-he-will-be-gone-and-we-will-have-accomplished-getting-a-new-national-party-if-we-only-stood-up change.

  15. Bettyrose says:

    It’s impossible not to have Hillary fatigue after 20 years of HRC for President rhetoric, but for chrissake she was a senator and Secretary of State. She has a law degree and actual understanding of the Constitution. At this point, no one is voting for her because she’s a woman.

    • Tiffany says:

      Ding, ding, ding, ding.

      Also, all the supporters of Bernie, he did not have enough votes or constituents to win the ticket. Guess what, if he did not run Democratic, he would have been worse off because a third party would have never gotten off the ground. The clueless is kind of scary.

  16. nicole says:

    ugh. Hillary for real? How could anyone believe that she truly feels the ways she says she does about certain issues? She is a liar and has been called out time and time again for her lies. It’s not a media blitz. She is a crook. She is not for middle america. I totally agree with him about Hillary and Trump being on the same page. They may differ on their official public stance on issues, but behind the scenes they are both criminals and DGAF about anyone but themselves.

    • Betsy says:

      You have drunk the kool aid. Yes, there has been a concerted effort – as explicitly stated by the Republicans! Out loud! – to discredit her.

    • lucy2 says:

      Here’s the thing for me -
      Say you’re right. Say she’s just as crooked, as indifferent to the middle class, as DGAF as Trump. I still feel she’s by far the safer choice.
      She won’t nominate backwards thinking people to the Supreme Court. She won’t try to roll back women’s rights, gay rights, and civil rights in general. She won’t immediately alienate all of our allies around the world. She doesn’t have the temperament of a impulsive, spoiled toddler.
      The US, and the world, would survive 4 years of her. I don’t know that we would do the same with Trump.

    • yolo112 says:

      This is how I see things…
      *Donald Trump*
      Pros: He’s not Hillary
      Cons: He’s Donald Trump

      *Hillary Clinton*
      Pros: She’s not Donald
      Cons: She’s Hillary Clinton

      I wept for what this has become. We (the (US) should be ashamed. The rest of the world is laughing at us.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      Her lack of honesty is a GOP created meme that has been built over decades, even though it isn’t rooted in reality:

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/28/hillary-clinton-honest-transparency-jill-abramson

      Also, Politifact said that she was the most truthful candidate running in 2016.

  17. Mary says:

    I’m not a trump lover, yet the thought of Hilary as a president, and her disgusting husband being anywhere near the white house makes my stomach hurt. Why are the crimes he committed against women, and her willingness to go along with it while slut shaming the women at the same time, why is that acceptable? So anyone that doesn’t want that in the White House is a moron? Really?

    • caitlinK says:

      Mary: Agreed. I don’t think Hilary has exactly shown herself to be a champion of women’s rights, what w her standing up for and supporting her very sleazy, chauvinist husband’s terrible treatment of women. I despise and mistrust Hilary for many reasons, and hate that I’ll have to vote for her, given that she’s the slightly lesser of two evils.

    • DIrty Martini says:

      Can’t stand the thought of voting for either one. Of,course posters on this board skew heavily to HC which is their right but I refuse to judge them. It’s their vote. I’m still going 3rd party and refuse to be shamed about it. HC and DT have plenty in common — dishonesty, fraud, and ate up,with ego. i could say plenty about the political shaming of people and how they vote — but nah, not worth the typostrokes. It’s the USA — Thank goodness we can vote and have these discussions. Or choose to not participate in certain aspects. All votes and all voters matter.

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        Please take a moment to solemnly consider the composition of the future SC under each of the two candidates before you cast your vote for your third party candidate, who you know will not win. Please.

      • DIrty Martini says:

        @notsosocial. Either way they will be appointed by a president I don’t trust and don’t support. in all honesty that doesn’t sway me………I don’t fear the decisions of the Supreme Court justices. The postulation I’ve read on here by some of losing a woman’s right to choose is laughable. It has been in place for decades , implemented under a republican president and stayed through many republican presidencies and their preferred appointees on the Supreme Court.

        There is always an immediate “you have to vote for (HC or DT) or else such and such will happen.” I don’t have to, and I won’t and the “or else” is fear mongering about the unknown.

      • Who ARE these people? says:

        Abortion rights may be the federal law but not the state practice. Have a look.
        https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/overview-abortion-laws

      • Dirty Martini says:

        @who are these people……thereby also reducing the argument that the next presidents choices on the SCOTUS nominees will have dramatic effect on women’s right to choose. Roe vs Wade was 1973 when Nixon (republican) was president. It has stood for over 43 years through Several republican presidents and their SCOTUS nominees (Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2) which must be approved by Senate anyway, The differences by state in your link re protocols and processes (waiting periods, performed by physician or not requirement, parental approval for under age females, etc) simply make the point that advocacy on these issues is done at the state level and has less material meaning as it relates to the presidential election as portended by many of the alarmists on here who insist that a vote for a 3rd party means a trump victory and a loss of access. Roe vs Wade has stood for 43 years and if an adult woman in the USA wishes an abortion she can have one in all 50 states of the USA thanks to roe vs wade. Your link shows differences in process and protocols do certainly exist……as in many medical issues given states — not the federal govt — license medical facilities and professionals.

        A vote for a 3rd party means the other 2 didn’t win your vote. Someone will be elected and have to deal with congress and the entirety of the judicial system to govern. We elect presidents not emperors.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Bill Clinton nominated Ruth Bader Ginsberg to the Supreme Court. Think of who Trump would nominate.

    • Kitten says:

      Ok but that’s a personal matter. I’m not condoning what she did but how the hell does the way that she handled her husband’s affair affect my life in any real, tangible way?

      What bearing does that have on her ability to make decisions in a presidential capacity?

      Hillary’s is running on a pro-woman platform and then on the other side of the ring, we have Trump/Pence:

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/07/14/mike_pence_fits_right_in_with_donald_trump_s_anti_woman_worldview.html

      • hmmm says:

        Don’t you realise, Kitten, that she’s merely an extension of her husband?

      • Kitten says:

        That’s how people see her and it’s gross.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Her husband nominated Ruth Bader Ginsberg to the Supreme Court. If Hillary is an extension of that kind of decision making, that might have long lasting positive results.

  18. Pepper says:

    The problem is there’s always a terrible Republican candidate to defeat. This year it’s worse because it’s Trump, though given literally none of the other options were much better and one was actually worse, I think we can assume every election from now on is going to have a nightmare Republican candidate. But the fear of Trump is tempered by the fact the DNC has gone with Hilary again, when 08 should have shown them people just aren’t that into her. At a time when it was crucial they push someone who could inspire and invigorate, they chose to go with the legacy they think they owe a second shot. That’s why Trump is even a part of the conversation right now.

    I’ve been voting third party all my life. The rhetoric about how voters like me let in monsters has always been there, always, but in the mean time the Dems keep moving further and further towards the centre, with many going full 80′s Republican. Nothing is ever going to change if people don’t vote for change. Every election it’s ‘not the right time’, it’s ‘too scary’, the ‘consequences are too huge’, and every year the Republicans get more and more extreme while the Democrats slowly sidle further and further towards the right. The Democrats keep sidelining the left in favor of centrists, and the centrists have nowhere to go but to the right when dealing with the Republicans. It’s a nightmare, and sticking with the status quo is the cause.

    • Hilary says:

      Finally some level headed truth. Don’t vote your fears. <3

    • Betsy says:

      Again, and I will say this until I am blue in the face: progressives do not vote locally or in off years. You cannot send a message or pull this country left when your voice is absent most of the time and when it matters.

      • Hilary says:

        I am very involved in my local politics. I am so amused by all these sweeping statements. According to you well informed gossip hens, I am a rich white man who only votes every four years. I’ll be checking my bank account momentarily to confirm. But, I’m pretty sure that I am and have always been a politically active human who believes in peace, people, and planet of profit. That’s why I am voting for the party and candidate who I know is most qualified to represent me, my family, and our ideals in office.

      • Ruyana says:

        Nope. A little old lady Progressive here who has never missed an election. When we lost the Congress it was because the DNC couldn’t be bothered to support the state candidates. They invested nothing in those elections and you see the result. I’m also very tired of the false belief that Hillary dissenters have drunk Republican Kool-Aid. All it takes is a look at her record for the past twenty-five years to see that she is not a good person for President. Yet all those who support her (many out of fear of Trump) just go la-la-la-la I can’t hear you and refuse to look at what she has done. I don’t mean what the Republicans SAY she has done. I mean what she really has done. Once again the Party has herded the fearful into the dip chute, just where they wanted everyone to go.

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        Progressive here, and die-hard (local) voter.

      • hmmm says:

        @Hilary

        “Gossip hens”? Misogynistic much? My, aren’t third party types superior (if not egalitarian).

    • felixswan2 says:

      @ pepper and dirty martini YES! Thank you for stating your points so eloquently and not being shamed or afraid to post a different view. I agree with you 100%.

  19. DeltaBlow says:

    If you could stop perpetuating the Bernie Bros. myth, that would be super great.

  20. Miss Jupitero says:

    *Headdesk*

    It is so disappointing when people you really like and respect do not understand that some of us ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING AT STAKE HERE. I don’t have a nice little villa in Madrid where I can retire. If the Republicans win, I am SCREWED.

  21. Sam says:

    I love how he calls it the Nader Argument. But, uh, Viggo, dude….Nader DID cost Gore the election. Seriously. Plenty of researchers did the legwork and yes, Nader cost Gore the election. Was he not around in 2000? Did he not see the whole Iraq war thing that Bush started?

    If anything, Nader is a cautionary tale of voting 3rd party in high-stakes elections. If Trump were not the nominee, and a more moderate, capable Republican was, I’d say “Go ahead and vote your conscience.” Because ultimately, any of the candidates are capable and qualified for the office. This is not one of those times. We are legitimately close to electing a fascist into office – a candidate who would mangle press freedoms, deport huge numbers of individuals, crack down on immigration, etc. What is difficult about understanding that? I am not a genuine Clinton fan, but (and it bears repeating) she is NOT A FASCIST. Like, what other reason do you genuinely need?

    • Hilary says:

      No, Gore gave up the election. He should have taken it to the Supreme Court.

    • Betsy says:

      @Sam +1

    • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

      Jeb Bush voter purging/ hanging chads/ Diebold Election Systems & associated software were far bigger problems than Nader.

      • Sam says:

        Nope. Not by a long shot. Look up B.C. Burden at Harvard, the guy who did the definitive analysis of the 2000 election. Nader was, he found, the deciding factor in the election. Primarily because Nader didn’t impact Florida seriously at all. In fact, Nader actually avoided the competitive swing states.

        The 2000 Green Party did not campaign in order to win. They campaigned to reach at least a 5% showing in the national election, which is the threshold to receive campaign funds and media access in the next election cycle. They thought Nader had enough name to help them do that. They actually purposefully avoided swing states and campaigned primarily only in “sold blue” states that they felt Gore would carry handily and thus, everything would be fine. The problem was that Gore’s margins were far slimmer than polls indicated, and Nader, even in blue states, cut in pretty seriously.

        But seriously, if you haven’t read the definitive analysis, you don’t really know what you’re talking about. But the Green Party was directly responsible for the Bush presidency – something they’d likely prefer to forget.

  22. Hilary says:

    Jill has always been my first choice. I am proud to have voted Green since I could vote and I am so excited to see the rise in awareness about the very important need for change. Our lives our at stake and Hillary (nor Trump) will do nothing to change the system that is destroying our planet. The DNC rigged its own primaries; democrats and Mr. Sanders supporters should be outraged. It’s peace, people, and planet over profit for me. No one will shame or fear me into supporting the oligarchy. I hope more of you will do research on Jill Stein and the Green Party. You deserve better than lies and manipulation from a corrupt, corporate owned, two party system. It is in our hands.

    • SusanneToo says:

      I don’t need to research Jill Stein to know that peace, people and the planet will be screwed should Trump and the disgusting Republicans prevail. Hope you can face yourself after that.

      • Hilary says:

        Maybe you should be talking to the people who plan to vote for Trump. This isn’t schrodinger’s vote. Once I put my ballot in the box it is still a vote for Jill. I’ll walk you through it: a vote for Donald is a vote for Donald, A vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary. A vote for Gary is a vote for Gary. A vote for Jill is a vote for Jill. A vote for either of the last two candidates is also a statement that we are sick of a corrupt, corporate owned two party system that has detroyed this planet and its people. And a vote for Jill is the only vote that says “I don’t support the TPP.” I’m not a coward, sorry.

      • SusanneToo says:

        @Hilary. See comments 23 and 25 and then go ahead and waste your vote.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        An election is a zero sum game. Voting for a candidate who has no chance of winning definitely has an impact on the two candidates who could possibly win.

      • DIrty Martini says:

        @tiffany. Perhaps. Yet don’t blame the 3rd party votERS for legitimately voting their conscience. That’s what elections are for.

        If a candidate loses, it is their fault they lost. Not the voters. Stated simply — They didnt garner enough support to win. That is on them.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        If voters are faced with a decision like this and they decide to use their vote to support a fascist like Trump (whether through directly voting for him or not supporting the only other viable option), then yes….it is on the voter. It’s like a version of Sophie’s Choice where Sophie decides not to make a choice because she resents the process, only to have both children parish. Yes, I wish there was a candidate available that was wise, adored, and electable. That isn’t this election. We have limited options in front of us, and who ever WINS will greatly effect our country for generations via the Supreme Court.

        Can a person really call it “voting their conscience” for a 3rd party candidate if that means they have to ignore and disassociate the Presidential result from their own actions?

      • hmmm says:

        @Hilary,

        Yes, it’s more important to uphold one’s ideals for a progressive society rather than fight against the reality of a rising fascism and the destruction of society.

      • DIrty Martini says:

        @tiffany. I agree with you on trump. My issue is with shaming 3rd party voters as if their choice is the (a?) problem. I refuse to accept it is. It has now come to the point that both parties are shaming 3rd party voters without taking responsibility and a look at why we are choosing the way we are. The two party system has produced unacceptable and unsupportable candidates and platforms in our opinion. Period. We want change from that. Personalizing this to be a problem with those of us going in that direction (vs the 2 parties and their candidates ) is in my opinion wrongly placed. We are voting for the candidates of our choice. We ARE choosing and therefore your Sophie’s Choice analogy falls apart. Most analogies do by the way, so I’m generally not a fan of them.

        We are voting. It’s how a democracy works.

    • KatyD says:

      And even though no one knows who she is, Jill Stein will magically be elected. And then, she will sprinkle magical fairy dust on the land, banishing those evil polluting corporate power structure into the abyss, saving the kingdom. And we will all live happily ever after. Riight.

      The system will not magically change EVEN if Stein was elected. It’s basically impossible for policies like that to pass as they have to go through Congress (currently run by Republicans). All those ideas will be blocked and tabled. Do people not know how our government works? The conservative party will block anything progressive–guaranteed. Only with tremendous compromise do things get through, like Obamacare. Our government is very divided right now. But a conservative president and Congress means they will get everything they want. Horrifying…

      In reality, Herr Trump will be elected and we can look forward to the decay of the US, esp rights for women, gays, and another possible war if Trump decides to bomb a place because they hurt his feelings.

      Spoken by someone who shamefully voted for Nader in 2000. After 2 horrendous wars which killed over 5,000 Americans and 100,000 Iraqi citizens, a destroyed economy, and near bankruptcy as a nation, yep, I feel bad about voting Nader. Especially seeing good friends struggle to find work after losing their jobs in 2008. But this time I’ve learned my lesson well. It’s Hillary or die. I’m thinking many young folks don’t undestand what is at stake here or won’t learn from the recent past? This election is WAY too important to throw away your vote. There is too much to lose. Just my opinion…

    • DIrty Martini says:

      @Hilary. I’m likely voting with you. Ignore those who stomp their feet and tell you that voting 3rd party or write in is electing Trump. I’ll quote a poster from another thread that summarized it so succinctly: “If HC loses she has no one to blame but herself because SHE didn’t garner enough votes or supporters. PERIOD.” (Paraphrased )

      • KatyD says:

        The people having PERIODs will be suffering the most under Trump/Pence. Both have made statements against working women as being bad for marriage and children, both are against abortion and want to punish women for it, and neither cares about equal pay or women’s issues. But, no biggie for you, right? Hillary is SO bad that I don’t care if Trump gets elected, right? I’m guessing only the privileged can afford such cavalier thinking? Other wise, you are risking a lot.

      • DIrty Martini says:

        @KatyD. My comments elsewhere on this threadaddress this. The example on women’s right is without substantive merit in my opinion and I feel it is fear mongering. Every republican presiden for the last 43 years has followed the party line on abortion yet….somehow Roe vs Wade has stood for 43 years that include 5 different republic presidents, 2 of which held 2 terms.

      • Tiffany :) says:

        Abortion isn’t the only women’s rights issue. Hobby Lobby, anyone? Equal pay?

      • hmmm says:

        Every Republican president wasn’t a fascist, that fascism enabled by his own party.

      • KatyD says:

        @Dirty Martini. Abortion has stood for 43 years? Do you not read the news? Each year, many conservative states have enacted 100s of laws restricting access to abortion! How can you be do naive? Mike Pence has signed laws in his state which closed clinics, put in longer waiting periods, supported a law which stated that women should inform the government after they become pregnant, signed a law which required that women should bury their aborted fetuses, etc. It goes on and on… All it takes is for Trump and Pence to choose a few more Scalias on the bench of SCOTUS and suddenly these restrictive laws will be constitutional. Some people really need to inform themselves on these issues and what is at stake.

    • Betsy says:

      The primaries were not rigged.

  23. Scal says:

    The fact of the matter is the Green party can’t win elections past the municipal level. They currently have no governors, no representatives in any state houses, no representatives in congress. They’ve never elected anyone to congress. Other than Ralph Nader in 2000, they never had more than 1% of the popular vote in a presidential election. You can’t go from zero to president without having a base in congress and at the state level. Look at how libertarians and the tea party did it.

    I respect that people want to vote with their conscience-but don’t pretend that it’s anything other than making a empty stand that no one will hear or care about anyway. If you really want to change the 2 party system, you have to build it from the ground up. Get green party officials elected as governors, as congressional leaders. Don’t think you can just up and vote for them in a presidential campaign and think that’s going to defeat the entrenched 2 party system. It’s naive at best, and dangerous at worst.

    • Franklymydear... says:

      Word.

    • lucy2 says:

      Excellent post.
      Personally I would love more options rather than D or R all the time. I would love to see a strong third party, or Independents actually gain some ground. If a good third party candidate was in the mix, I absolutely would consider them and vote for them if I thought they were best for the job, and I’d love to see them rise to equal footing with the Ds and Rs so it wasn’t always so damn 2 sided.
      However…this is NOT the election to start that with. Not with a threat like Trump.

    • Tiffany :) says:

      Very, very well written.

  24. QQ says:

    Ah another one for the OG F*ckboy Pile, in any case the hot died for me when I realized he is walking around like Voldemort wearing a toupee to be incognito while on a summer vacay

  25. CidySmiley says:

    Let’s be very clear, bernie or bust or #neverhillary come a place of privilege these are people who don’t (or think they don’t) have as much to lose as someone like me, I’m a black woman, with a mortgage of student loan debt, three children and my husband is a veteran. We are middle class people about to buy a house, our kids are brown (mostly) if Donald Trump gets into the white house my life is ruined. My husband will lose the insurance that got him a prosthetic arm. My children will grow up in an even more racist and sexist place, I will never own a home, I will never be free of student debt. But that’s okay with y’all, cause you have nothing to lose. Hillary and Bernie agree on 90% of their politics. Jessica Williams made the best analogy: “I wanted to out to eat with my friends, I wanted to go to a new restaurant they wanted to go to a slightly older, slightly less progressive restaurant. I got out voted. So instead of going out to eat with them I went into an alley and ate a pile of dog s##t.” It’s not word for word … but you get the picture.

    • Hilary says:

      Hillary doesn’t care about you. You really should research the Green Party’s platform. Jill will abolish all student debt. She is the only candidate who walks in BLM movements. She calls herself a “mother on fire” which she defines as being as concerned for the well being of all children as much as she cares for her own. She has been working hard in Massachusetts to end the corruption of the Deomcratic party there who stole clean elections from the citizens who voted for it. I know Trump seems scary but he is only a Clinton plant. Your life will not get better under another Clinton presidency. It may not be easy but we have to start somewhere.

      • LadyLoo says:

        Trump a Clinton plant? Is that what Jill tells you?

        And another thing, who the hell is Jill? Because NO ONE knows her and the last time I checked, she wasn’t our best hope of defeating Trump.

      • SusanneToo says:

        And I’ll cure cancer and provide free ice cream for all!! Vote for me, me, me!

      • Kitten says:

        @SusanneToo-Change “ice cream” to “cookies” and you have my vote.

      • SusanneToo says:

        @Kitten. Done! Whatever position garners a vote, I’ll take it.

      • Yourmom says:

        YES

      • Yourmom says:

        YES

      • KatyD says:

        Some of the Bernie/Jill supporters sound just like Trump’s supporters? They both believe in these unfounded conspiracy theories, like Trump is a Clinton plant, Obama is a secret ISIS operative Muslim, the election is rigged, etc.. It’s eerie… what happened to reasoning and critical thinking? You can’t believe in something when there’s no evidence. And no internet partisan and biased websites don’t count as facts. Sigh…

  26. hmmm says:

    He has the luxury of cavalierly tossing away his vote. The consequences won’t affect a rich white guy. How naive can you be.

    I’m sick of Hillary being pilloried. I think she’s violently hated in a way that Obama has been hated- he, for being black, and she for being a woman. I don’t see her any more dishonest than your average politician. But she’s a woman and misogyny runs deep still. Plus, as Kaiser pointed out, she’s been defined by hateful groups for decades and everyone runs with it, especially the media.

    Viggo is certainly no independent thinker, buying into such obvious groupthink. It’s 1984 Viggo- get a clue . Yeah, toss your vote away in the face of rising fascism. Dumbo. But, it won’t affect him, ever.

  27. hmmm says:

    The endless false equivalency makes me crazy. The worst offenders are the putative ‘progressives’, independents. No, you’ve just bought into Republican groupthink, you have been co-opted by the dark side. So much for your desire for social change and justice when you’ve fallen into the totalitarian mind trap. This is not thinking independently which actually does lead to beneficial change.

  28. jc126 says:

    I’m so tired of seeing people use the words “straight, white male” as an insult, as if all straight white men (and women) ONLY care about their own personal self-interests and not about the Supreme Court or about fairness for all. It says more about the person using it as a slam than it does about straight white people. Especially when it’s endless “oh shut up straight white people” comments – you sound just like the people you oppose ideologically, wanting to silence dissent and live in an echo chamber.
    Also – does Viggo live in CA or some other non-swing state? If so it doesn’t matter if he votes a 3rd party. I think I agree with him that I wish we had a parliamentary system.

  29. LadyLoo says:

    Viggo, Viggo, Viggo, I’m really going to need you to NOT be this guy. Seriously, do me a solid and don’t be this guy.

  30. adastraperaspera says:

    Our political rhetoric in the U.S. is currently so inflamed, that context is more important than ever. He has every right to support Jill Stein, but why not just focus on the policy issues he champions, instead of lazily slinging the “Clinton is dishonest” mud, which does not leave room for any helpful discussion. What is actually “dishonest” is when someone conflates the historical record to such an extent that they blithely reduce a two-term First Lady, Senator and Secretary of State (with decades of accomplishments) to the same level as a racist playboy casino magnate. This is playing with a dangerous fire that threatens our democratic union.

    • KatyD says:

      THIS. The hatred of her is off the charts and far out of line with her supposed crimes. I remember when Hillary was first lady and she tried to get health care passed in the US. People were livid that she dared to do something rather than go away and bake cookies. Yep, health care is what corrupt dishonest crook politicians focus on, right?
      Like she cares about your health–burn the witch! The misogynistic tone of the attacks was uncomfortable to listen to as well.

      • hmmm says:

        I remember this, too, KatyD. And the attacks continue to this day, so much baseless hatred. I totally agree with you.

  31. Tallia says:

    Amen.

  32. Decca says:

    Love that he said this! You can bully all you want but there are progressive people with progressive views that will not be silenced.

  33. tami says:

    I dont trust hillary either…and not because shes a woman as some of you will falsely say. I dont trust her because she has been in politics for over 20 yrs and not in the real world. There is no way she doesnt have ties being in the bubble that long. I also think its insane how much money both she and bill make on speeches. I dont believe they are for the little guy. Now you can say but trump…but trump….however im not talking about trump..the topic is hillary. And i dont believe two wrong people make it right.

  34. Craig says:

    KATYD, people did not oppose Hillary’s 1993 health care plan because they thought she should “bake cookies” instead.

    People opposed it because it was a 1000 page blue print of more bureaucracy and red tape, and too restrictive of patient choice. Even many Democrats came out against it.

    Just because you criticize her does not make you misogynistic. Hillary is more than capable of holding her own with the big guys without having to play the victim card, I think even she knows that

    • KatyD says:

      Not true Craig. I lived through those times and I heard what people said about her. The red tape thing is bs–she never even got that far. People and conservatives said that we elected Bill and not you for president. Then they discussed her as being too vocal and active on the nightly news. Hillary tried to play it off as you got a two for one deal in terms of working politicians. But among conservatives,she was called a b word. Just ask Newt Gingrich’s mom.

  35. Cali says:

    I’m chilled to the bone at the thought of either of these candidates as President. And it really sucks.

  36. seesittellsit says:

    He’s always been far left. But OMG he soooo gorgeous.

  37. leah says:

    Research Clinton Foundation fraud and tell me if you still trust the Clintons.

  38. LinaLamont says:

    I don’t know how much more of these idiots (celebs…trying not to diss CBers) my blood pressure can take. RAGE!!!

    RE: November. ..Hang onto your uteruses, ladies!

  39. Lydia says:

    I can’t believe I have to chime in again, but I guess that’s just because things are so insane these days, and there’s a lot of misinformation out there.

    I’m a WOMAN and I support Berni- and now Jill Stein as well. I’m a HUGE supporter of #BlackLivesMatter; in fact, I quite expect that I annoy many people on Facebook with my frequent posts. Yes, I AM white, but I’m incredibly poor (college student, in debt) and a female who will lose out on female rights if Trump gets into office.

    HOWEVER, I will never vote for Hilary. I vote FOR people, not just the lesser evil. (I always don’t believe Hilary is the lesser evil- and I was a lifelong Democrat, I was always on the left and involved in politics even as a 10 year old… now an Independent and I may switch to Green Party)

    First of all, Bernie is not out yet. He is indeed still going to the convention, and word is that he will make a call for super delegates. We shall see. Secondly, when and if he finally falls- I will go to Jill Stein. Hilary is pro fracking, she is bought/paid for by the elite, and she cares about them, not us. She has lied and cheated her way through this election.

    As for saying we shouldn’t vote for Jill Stein- are you aware that her donations had gone up by 1000% in two days? Are you aware that she’s showing slow but steady improvement in national pills? There are many independents and many democrats that are flocking to her side as the likelihood that Bernie is out increases.

    Don’t vote for Hilary because you feel you have no choice. If you like her, sure, vote for her. But if you don’t like her- come to the Green side. We have cookies ;)

    Sometimes things have to reach their very worst point before they can get better. A revolution has started that is only gaining steam (and as I noted the last time I posted, about a month ago, the Bernie Bros are a very small part of the Berners- nearly all the Berners I know are female, and I have friends on the west coast, east coast, and in the south). Trump is an idiot, but Hilary is an awful, awful choice. She is a republican in disguise.

    You don’t have to believe me. I beseech you to look deeper. The evidence is there :) xoxo!

    • Lydia says:

      Agh! I hate when I misspell things or have shitaculat grammar xD
      Uh… Hope you can understand what I said in my previous post, regardless! I was writing too fast. Typical. Le sigh.

  40. Lydia says:

    You know, I have one last thing to say. Our goal in this revolution is to create a third party, perhaps even a fourth party. A new party for progressives, and a new party for conservatives. Neither are being adequately represented these days.

    We need a multi-party system so badly. Even IF only a small portion of Americans (say, 10-15%, although personally I think it will be more) vote for Jill, and the winner is Clinton or Trump… We’ll have shown that we do indeed need a new party. That we will not stand for the bullshit provided to us any longer. That we CAN stand up.

    I stand with #BlackLivesMatter
    I stand with #NOmonsanto
    I stand with the millions of us who want a new party. All YOU have to do, IF and only if you don’t feel like Clinton and Trump represent us, is stand up too. Make your vote count towards something that can save out country in the long run, even if in the short run it gets worse. You need to be thinking long term, for your children and your children’s children. DO your research, and STAND FOR SOMETHING. I have stood up my whole life for things that matter and I am not about to stop now. I want to save our country more than anything. Clinton and Trump are NOT the way to do that- but creating change in the way things are run is. Less corruption, more real change.

    • Sam says:

      Except that the Greens gave us Bush back in 2000. If they hadn’t, how different would America be if we had President Gore for 8 years? Why should anybody support the party that unleashed the W. Years upon this country?

      And no, it’s not okay to “reach the bottom.” You don’t care about all the people who would seriously suffer under a Trump presidency. If you did care, you’d get that Clinton, with all her imperfections and problems, is still better than Trump and represents the best chance for his defeat. Clinton has not advocated war crimes. She does not wish to punish women who abort pregnancies. She does not support cracking down on journalists. She does not promise to pay legal fees for supporters who attack dissenters. Shall I go on? Acting as though she is the same as Trump is disingenuous and cowardly. But you can, because you don’t have anything personally at stake.

      And if you actually cared about BLM, you’d listen to actual black people – who, BTW, are supporting Clinton in massive (90%+) numbers. They’re saying that they want Clinton – but why should their actual words matter? The white savior narrative is strong here, I think. The difference is that black people do not have the luxury of “voting with one’s conscience.” They feel threatened by Trump (with good reasons) and they will vote for his defeat.

      • Lydia says:

        Have you been in Baton Rouge, protesting for #BlackLivesMatter, PEACEFULLY, as you are marched on by police, some of whom throw you around just for being there?

        Because I have. HOW DARE YOU say I don’t care about black people, or listen to them. I MARCHED WITH THEM. I STOOD with them. Peacefully, despite what some outlets say. I was scared to death but I was THERE. Because something’s gotta change.

        I know the stakes clearer than most white people.
        And so many black people actually DO want Bernie or Jill, so I’m not sure where you are getting your facts…..

        If YOU really want to make the world a less hateful place, if YOU want true change for people of all races and genders… then you should vote for Jill, too.

        As a poster above said.. Are we supposed to choose between horrible and crazy every election year? No. Time to stand up and change things. Time to create a happier place for all- and YES, sometimes that DOES mean reaching the bottom first, so people can actually see what it’s like, and because sometimes a brief sacrifice will win the war.

      • Kitten says:

        “The white savior narrative is strong here, I think. The difference is that black people do not have the luxury of “voting with one’s conscience.”

        This x 1,000,000. And this topic has been elaborated and expounded upon at great length around here from our fellow black commenters.

    • Kitten says:

      Since you brought it up, I would wager that the people who are most directly affected by the issues surrounding #BlackLivesMatter stand with Hillary, not Bernie.

      ETA Shit sorry Sam, just saw your last paragraph.

      • Lydia says:

        And you would be wrong. As a college student who is from the NE, grew up on the PNW, and is now in the south, I have friends everywhere, of all ages but primarily between 22-38 or so.

        Guess what? About 98% of them, including people of different races and genders, favor Bernie, and are now switching to Jill. I have seen your posts and I usually think you’re quite smart. I don’t understand how you can understand so little in this instance.

        You want to know part of the reason why? Because Bernie marched with Martin Luthor King Jr, because Bernie has been an activist his whole life. He fought for minorities his whole damn life. And those that pay attention know that.

      • Kitten says:

        Sorry Lydia, but a simple Google search puts this debate to rest. I also think it’s important that as white folks, we don’t speak on behalf of black people, but again I’m just going by facts. Your friends who obviously run in the same circles as you and who would naturally be drawn to the same political stance do not equal *all black people*.

        I genuinely think it’s great that you marched with and support BLM but in your passion to back a third party candidate, you’re actually spreading misinformation and falsehoods.

        Anyone following this election knew that Clinton would get the black vote over Sanders. Hell, it was a huge problem for the Sanders campaign–trying to galvanize PoC. It’s not a question, it’s not open to interpretation, and it’s not up for debate.

        And I say this as someone who voted for Sanders in the primary and really REALLY wanted him to win the election.

        So yeah, I have to agree with Sam on this.

      • Lambda says:

        Lydia, I was a volunteer in Bernie’s campaign, did some canvassing in several cities and towns in my Midwestern state. You’re mistaken about the African American vote. It is overwhelmingly in Clinton’s favor. It is what it is.
        You have cool friends, but I think your perception is shaped by self-selecting those friends.

  41. pikawho? says:

    He’s killed my boner for him and no amount of speaking Spanish will ever bring it back

  42. Feebee says:

    Ah, Viggo… what can I say that’s others haven’t already so eloquently said re the safety of his words from a rich, straight, white male point of view who has the luxury of living outside of the US as he chooses?

    If you want to vote for a woman, vote for Jill Stein? I don’t know who she is. I mean I know she is the Greens Party leader but that’s literally it. And while some say one must do their homework, what is the point? She is in no position to make a difference in reality. Those who live in reality realize our priority is to not have Donald Trump in the White House.

    As for Hillary Clinton, she’s the eternal defense attorney isn’t she. She’ll always be hated until she’s needed. She’s such a liar!!! Well, yes and no. I have to laugh at the email drama. When she was defending herself at the beginning she forgot to add the words, in my opinion. Silly woman. Ha ha ha. Can’t you just imagine her behind closed doors railing “those idiots want me to be truthful? Truth – you want the truth? You can’t handle the truth!”

    You know the last world leader to do “the right thing”. David Cameron. Silly bastard. A good politician knows when to break a campaign promise. You think Donald Trump knows the difference? Does anyone think he’s going to keep any promises to his white supremacist base? No, because that wouldn’t really be in Donald Trump’s interest and that’s the only thing that counts.

    • Kitten says:

      No lies detected.

      I like Jill Stein but she spends more time bashing Hillary than Trump.
      I get that she’s trying to steal the lesser-evil voters but her strategy disregards voters like myself: people who supported Bernie until he was no longer a contender but who are burnt out on the characterization of Hillary as an evil war-monger.

      I can’t help it: I have an adverse reaction to any candidate who is spouting the same rhetoric as the GOP.

      I guess Stein is taking the same approach as Sanders did and coming out with guns blazing. Too bad because I think objectivity would be more effective in that scenario than divisiveness.

      • Lydia says:

        Kitten, it won’t let me reply to your last post above, so I’m replying here.

        I was saying 98% of MY friends (of all races, genders, ethnicities- I’m a traveler) favor Bernie and are now switching to Jill.

        I’m also saying that the minorities that walk in #BLM protests that I’ve talked to (in Baton Rouge, for example) favor Bernie and Jill.

        I don’t know what Google shows; all I can offer are facts from the people I know and the people I walk with. But I DO find it interesting that my personal hands-on experience differs so much from Google… And considering that Google IS part of a huge corporation and has shown biased data before, I don’t particularly think it holds any merit.

        I will also say that my gay, transgender and drag queen performer friends in Portland, San Fran, and Seattle also prefer Bernie.
        (Side note- if you’ve never been to a drag show, you should! They are so fun!)

      • Sam says:

        Lydia, It’s not “Google.” It’s reputable polling organizations like Gallup, WSJ, RealClearPolitics, etc. The most recent WSJ Poll shows:

        Among African Americans:
        Clinton: 84%
        Trump: 7%
        Other/Undecided: 9%

        So Jill Stein is not getting any meaningful support from AA people overall. Sorry. It’s not a Google conspiracy, it’s professional polling. Look it up for yourself. Your circle of friends do not a viable polling pool make.

        So are 84% of AA people morons, by your logic? They just can’t see how much better Stein would be for them? Or maybe they have their own reasons for supporting Clinton? No, that couldn’t be it – they must be misled!

        That’s what I mean when I say that you don’t really care. Caring meaning listening to people and accepting that when they tell you what is best for them, you accept it. AA people are making clear that the best thing they can have, right now, is defeating Trump by voting Clinton into office. You refuse to accept that – but that means you aren’t really interested in listening to them.

  43. cd3 says:

    Putting aside Viggo’s political comments, I do wholeheartedly agree with him on his two other points:

    1. The US is truly f^cked in its censorship of sex and nudity on screen. It is really twisted IMO that so much violence is allowed on screen but if you show a naked body – a completely normal and natural thing – all the pearl clutchers at the FCC get their panties in a twist.

    2. “We need to broaden our perspectives and our points of view to see what other people think—to consider the arguments of people we instinctively don’t agree with—but people just stay in their camps and do research on what they already believe in.” Yes! I completely agree with this actually. I recently listened to an interview with Jon Ronson, and he mentioned that he specifically follows people on social media whose views he doesn’t necessarily agree with, so that his own views may be questioned and challenged and to see if they really stand up. JK Rowling said something similar recently too.

  44. CK says:

    Democracy is not dead or screwed up because the candidate that you liked didn’t win. There’s a reason why Sander’s isn’t the democratic nominee and that’s because he couldn’t capture a majority of the base, minorities and women and he couldn’t get enough votes. That is democracy folks. Sure, he has better favorables than Hillary and Trump, but it’s not a popularity contest. As for this Jill Stein nonsense, it is easy to have the best policies in the world when there is no chance that you will ever have to govern.
    And as one of the many AA voters that put Hillary Clinton over the top, I’m proud of my choice and excited about the choice that I will make in November.

  45. Poisonous Lookalike says:

    Kaiser asked: ” Whatever you think of Hillary – and she’s not my favorite, but I agree with her on many things – how are you not chilled to the bone at the idea of a President Trump?”

    It’s clear from many comments here that some people are “chilled to the bone” at the idea of either of these individuals becoming president—and for very good reason in each case. As one of those individuals (and speaking only for myself), it does Hillary’s cause no good to not see or acknowledge this.

    Reasonable people can gather information and opinions from a variety of sources and form their own conclusions, without “drinking the KoolAid” or otherwise being “brainwashed”. Assertions that that’s how I’ve come to my opinions suggest to me that you don’t trust me to think for myself… or worse, that I’m incapable of thinking for myself, so I just need to do what you want me to and it’ll all be okay. Yeah, no.

    Reasonable and mature people can also agree to disagree. I trust that you all are doing what you think is best; and it isn’t any of my business to tell you you’re wrong or to try to scare you into doing something else. Is it so hard to extend that courtesy to those who are outside the R and D parties?

    Those who write as though if Drumpf were to be elected, his Supreme Court nominees would breeze through the Senate confirmation process are overlooking the fact that many establishment Rs are snubbing him. I don’t think that will change if he gets elected, as he will only make that party look worse. He will similarly, IMO, face an obstructionist Congress. I’m not necessarily a fan of that kind of governance, but sometimes it’s the best outcome. Hillary would not face that kind of uphill battle… which is why the thought of her as president is so unsettling to some.

    Lost in the R versus D rhetoric is the meat of Mortensen’s comments: “But you know, at some point it’s got to change. We should have a parliamentary system. It’s really got to change.” He’s right. Continuing to vote for candidates within the two parties, even when one strongly dislikes them, will not change the structure of US electoral politics. And it has not been by the people, of the people, and for the people for a very long time.

    Neither the Rs and the Ds will voluntarily give up the stranglehold on electoral power they have. It will take people voting third party—especially for high-level offices—to start to crack that. There is never an ideal time to take that step, but if change is to come, it must be taken.

    I’m not trying to convince anyone to vote a specific way; as I said before, that’s none of my business. And I’m not going to comment on this presidential election any more here. I posted a link to a series of videos on electoral systems in another thread on this subject; if you haven’t watched it yet, all I ask is that you do so.

    • TG says:

      Thank you for this comment. We need more options and why that isn’t glaringly obvious to people frightens me more than the 2 party rhetoric they spew.

    • KatyD says:

      Even if a Green party candidate was magically elected, the system would not change. No chance any of those wonderful ideas would be enacted into law with the Republicans gerrymandering their states and holding Congress. Obama wanted to also change the system but at every turn, he was blocked and he ended up caving in to business and special interest groups. That’s why the ACA is such a mess. In the same way, there are way too many lobbyists in DC as well who will work to block all of those Green Party policies because they go against business interests. People are really naive. Without a full revolution to eliminate special interests and change DC’s culture, it will be business as usual in our government. At this point, voting locally is about much change as you can hope to get. Many states are enacting progressive local policies (i.e. marijuana legalization).

  46. Jayna says:

    Amen, Kaiser.

  47. lucky says:

    “My reaction when I encounter Bernie Bros who are in the “Never Hillary” camp is to just walk away.”

  48. Dee Kay says:

    Hillary is my hero, and has been ever since I was a teen and she appeared on the political scene. I voted for her husband twice but I was really voting for HER. I am #AlwaysHillary. And I also thought I was #AlwaysViggo but I was wrong!!!! Buh-bye, Aragorn!!!!!!!!!!!

  49. Rich says:

    You Hildebeast/Faux PO “Followers” have to be the biggest bunch of ding bats that has ever existed. You little Einsteins… collectively DO NOT FORM A SINGLE BRAIN CELL! It’s quite sad that HELEN KELLER would QUICKLY “see” The Hildebeast for EXACTLY what IT is…. A Pathological Liar, A Money Laundering, Murdering KILL COUNT STANDS @ #52 and RISING..She is the most corrupt to the core career criminal in the history of the WORLD! Yet, you people, act like she has done NOTHING… Well that’s exactly what she has done.. NOTHING , ZILCH NADA.. For her entire political career… She is a DISASTER OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS and WILL NEVER …EVER.. Be President.. So you PATHETIC little ding bats.. better get together and start memorizing saying PRESIDENT TRUMP! GEEZ … This witch was called by her own people.. a LIAR 1000 times over… She is NOT SOPHISTICATED ENOUGH TO do email… and you THINK… There are enough MORONS such as your pathetic little selves that don;t have a CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING … LET ALONE POLITICS!!.. HEAD DOWN PEASANTS! Go back to grazing… !! Dumb DUMB DUMB!!!! TRUMP 2016….. GET USED TO IT… Because HE HASN’T EVEN STARTED ON THIS WITCH!!!! She will wish she was NEVER BORN… !! Just like I’m sure some you half brain celled bitches are VERY FAMILIAR!! WORTHLESS JUST LIKE YOUR IDOL!!. Luckily… there are still some critical thinkers left and they FAR OUTNUMBER YOU IMBECILES!!! GET IT TOGETHER LOSERS!

  50. Ramona Q. says:

    I saw Viggo M on Real Time with Bill Maher last week. What a boring wind bag. Wow, he droned on and on. Who cares what this dude says.

  51. AlexandriaH says:

    Super Predator Hillary Clinton has a massive bloc of voters who will never vote for her — or Trump. A group so big that if this were a fair election, the Progressive Candidate would win.
    I’m a crippled middle aged woman and you can call me a BernieBro too. Me and every single man and woman that I know and almost all of my 4000 FB friends. Yup, your propaganda might work on some simpletons, but the truth has been revealed and it’s so ugly we’re not going to allow it anymore.
    Stating that Bernie and Hillary agree on 90% of the issues is terribly misleading and an abuse of your powers as a journalist. Bernie’s platform is a threat to everything that Hillary is, everything she’s proven to be important to her: money, power, war.
    Bernie was forced out of a winning campaign by a corrupt candidate: Clinton. Not Trump. Anyone who can’t see that Trump is working for Clinton is the truly deluded one. A vote for Trump is a vote for Clinton. A vote for Stein is a vote for America and the World!

  52. kimberly says:

    This is one of the rare times when I do not agree with 95% of the comments on this site.
    I am really disappointed with some of these comments I’ve come across here. But then it is just a difference of opinions.
    I do not like Trump at all and I never will but Crooked Hillary is even WORSE and potentially more dangerous if she gets into the White House again.
    After all the things she has been accused and guilty of there are still hard core supporters especially on this site rallying behind her (partly because she is a WOMAN!!!!!)
    If I were an American I would NEVER VOTE for her. Sure it would be great to see a FEMALE POTUS but NOT Hillary given her history.
    THE WOMAN IS A WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL for God’s sake!!!

  53. kimberly says:

    One more thing……..Viggo has gained MORE respect from me.
    Imo……..If more Americans really cared about their country Jill Stein would have gotten more support. That is just my view.
    But unfortunaltely a lot of the Americans seem to believe that Republicans and Democrats are the only choice they have and it is even more sad that a good number of them do not even know that a third party exists.
    So the choice is between the doofus called Donald Trump and the Criminal called Hillary Clinton.