Last week, I covered the first excerpts from Nicki Minaj’s Marie Claire cover interview. I thought many of her comments were on-point, except for what I thought was a strange statement about Kim Kardashian’s much-discussed semi-nude selfie from last spring. Everyone knows the selfie of which I speak: Kim ended up igniting a weeks-long conversation about feminism, objectification, body image and more. Many celebrities publicly slammed Kim. But Minaj used that as an example of double standards between white women and black women, like Kim got off easy because she’s white. I disagreed with that example, although I do believe Minaj’s general point that society and the media treats black women’s sexuality differently than white women’s sexuality. A better example might have been how Beyonce is discussed, perhaps?
Anyway, now I’m just starting to think that Minaj has a hang-up about Kim Kardashian specifically. Nicki also name-checked Kim as she was discussing interracial marriage and the fear that successful black men only want white women.
Telling it like it is. Nicki Minaj didn’t hold back when she slammed Kanye West for the lyrics of his 2005 hit “Gold Digger” in a new interview. The 33-year-old “Anaconda” rapper took issue with the West’s portrayal of the relationship between black men and women, calling him out in the November issue of Marie Claire.
“I’m so tired of black women feeling that when our men get rich, they’re going to leave them for a woman of a different race,” she told the magazine. “It wasn’t funny when Kanye said [in his 2005 hit ‘Gold Digger’], ‘When he get on, he’ll leave your ass for a white girl’ — and Kanye happens to be with a white girl now. It wasn’t funny when he said it; it was the f–king truth.”
I don’t want to delegitimize the conversation Nicki is trying to have, nor do I have any place to talk – I am not a black woman, although I know for a fact that this is a decades-long conversation within the black community, that successful black men want to “attain” a light-skinned woman, a white woman or a non-black woman. Those conversations existed around OJ Simpson, around Quincy Jones, around Sidney Poitier, around every successful black man married to a white woman. But here’s my thing: what is there to do about it, realistically? Everyone should have the right to date, fall in love and marry whomever they want.
Photos courtesy of Marie Claire, WENN.
The comments are more a nod to the conversations we’re having about colorism, and dating men outside of our race. Not really about policing black men.
Cosign.
My three brothers have exclusively dated and married white women and it was barely worth comment. Yet when I brought my white boyfriend (now husband) home, my father went so far as to tell me he couldn’t condone my “master/slave fetish.” This was over a decade ago and things are slowly changing, but we still get looks and people still wonder why a “good white man” would be interested in my chocolate skinned self.
The double standard is ridiculous. And when black women date outside our race we are seen as traitors, seen as not valuing creating black families. But no one wants to talk about how the pool of eligible black men is small, comparatively. Especially if a black woman with advanced degrees wants to date a black man of equal education and socioeconomic status, because truly many successful black men want non-black women.
On an individual level, I agree that you love who you love. On a broader, social level, it’s hard to feel largely rejected and unwanted.
Could this be tied to how we devalue black women and WOC? I’m white, so I am not qualified to come up with the answers, but the way black women/WOC are presented in the media is bullshit. Black women’s sexuality, power, feminism, earning ability-it’s all questioned and boiled down to tropes and memes. If we, as a culture, start valuing black women and WOC, will that help change the idea of a white woman as an “achievement?” If so, how can we help? I know what I do in my daily life-I work closely with the black women and WOC who work for me to a) help them grown professionally and b) to help them know they are in a safe space where NO microaggressions and no prejudice are tolerated-but if there are additional ideas in how we change these perceptions, I’m all ears.
@LizLemonGotMarried we need to overhaul the history education in school. that might be a start. we all get taught history through the eye of white men. white man = default human being. so now women and non-white people are standing up, saying enough is enough, we need representation too and equal rights. now white boys that grow up in these environments develop persecution complex. these brogressives genuinely think they’re oppressed by feminists and POC. it’s hilarious,
@ pretty, I promise you some of us are trying (high school social studies teacher here). Trying hard.
Nicki Minaj needs some information: Kim is Armenian. Armenians do not consider their race to be white.
Kim is 1/2 Armenian which is Caucasian so she is 100% white.
@MaryMary, every Armenian I have ever met, which includes two ex-boyfriends, a sister-in-law, a co-worker and numerous others, consider themselves to be white.
Agree. I also think Nicki is not very illuminating.
Idk why people think that black guys want to “attain” a white woman. Maybe it’s just a matter of sexuality and the social hangouts of the rich and famous. The idea that the white woman is a just a thing to be collected/”attained” is really uncool. Maybe she is attracted to men of all races.
The truth is, to a lot men of color especially black men getting a white woman is an achievement. It’s got nothing to do with the white woman qualities, she may be the shittiest person he’s ever met, as long she’s not black, he’s cool with it. it’s all about being with a non black woman.
@Taiss genuine question because this is so far out of my realm of experience – what on earth do they think is wrong with black women? I mean, I’m assuming that their mothers and sisters are black women. This just makes me so sad.
I believe there are two main reasons. One: simply, adoration of white skin, non black features, and straight hair. The second reason, and I think this is much more common than we previously realized, black men feel that a non-black woman raises his position in society. She validates him as a human.
Wow. Just there are no words. Thanks @Taiss for answering. There are a lot of issues tied up in that that I was completely unaware of.
I wouldn’t say “policing” but holding Black men accountable for the images they put out there. Much like the Kanye lyric, and other rap songs, there is a image that being with a light-skinned, white, non-Black woman means that a man has “made it” per se. As in these women are held in higher regard. Black women are seen as less desirable. There is a sliding scale of “acceptability”. That’s not okay.
Also, on the “Everyone should be allowed to marry who they want. We can’t help who we fall in love with. Love is love” excuses. UMMMM…. In my experience, the same Black men touting this are also against the LGBT community and their supposed destruction of the family… so miss me with the bullsh*t.
This is one of those issues that really needs to only be discussed among the Black community, because people just truly see it is a “love is love” sort of situation. And it’s SO MUCH more complex than that.
@HHI wish I could like your comment. There are some conversations that are not for everyone. The issue is so complex that unless you are part of the community you don’t even know where the sides of the issue are. It is on the list of things that has become something that others try to shame us with. See also, Black on Black crime.
Yup. My pasty ass will be over here listening, not trying to talk over you.
Society tells us that there are levels of women and the white woman is at the top and the black woman is at the bottom. Within that, the more “black” you look (lips, skin shade, hair), the less attractive your are considered. That is how we have been conditioned, so good for her for pointing it out. That needs to change. That is part of the subconscious bias that people are finally talking about.
That being said, I agree with everyone who says that people should be free to love and marry whomever they want to.
People are confusing nationalities and religions with race. Armenian, Italian, Swedish, Nigerian, etc. are nationalities.
Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc. are religious groups, and, they come in all races and nationalities. Nationalities include all races. Although there are social aspects in describing races for the laymen, genomes are involved in the true definitions of race. I’m not talking about superiority/inferiority… simply, bloodline. Also, with so many offspring being the product of parents of different races, who knows, anymore….I don’t think that’s a bad thing or a good thing. It just is.
And, as usual, lately, my posts have a mind of their own and show up wherever they want. The above was in response to @Papaya below.
You can change your nationality on a whim. You can change your religion on a whim. Only Rachel Dolezal can change her race on a whim.
@ LinaLamont, arguably, Rachel Dolezal changed her ethnicity, not race. She was embracing and mimicing very particular cultural norms associated with African Americans (an ethnicity), which is more specific than Black (a race).
I think why anyone dates/loves/marries anyone is no one’s business but the two people in the relationship. We all bring our own levels of hangups and awesomeness to every relationship that we are in from cradle to grave — it galls me that people have so much to say psychoanalyzing WHY she or he thinks someone is with someone from another race. Are you in their bed to know? I’m in an interracial marriage of 16 years now, and I can assure you, no one else can tell me (except myself) what is going on in my head and heart of why my husband and I are together…so keep your amazing mind reading of thoughts to yourself, Ms. Minaj.
It’s actually this simple: This person is not for you.
@annaloo exactly! I had no idea this whole thing was even an issue. I grew up in Jacksonville and now live in Texas and have never seen black men preferring a white woman over a woman of color. Not saying it’s not a real issue but it also seems a bit like victimizing an entire race and accusing another one over something that a lot of people have no control over and certainly have many private reasons for (who they love and marry etc). Is this actually a problem that white people have perpitrated in the black community? Or is it automatically just an issue because how dare a black man choose a white woman over a black one? We’re all human after all and I find it offensive that a woman of any color would be blamed for having done something wrong because she married someone of a different race. Or that the partner who chose her is trying to pad his ego and attain a “catch.” It’s so bazar to me.
I don’t know what the answer is, or if an answer is even worth pursuing. No one owes anyone anything — to be with or not to be with someone is a personal choice! No one has to explain anything. We are always asking others to see us as individual, to not stereotype with a blanket statement of any group, yet here comes grievance central about interracial relationships. If a black man is with a white woman, well, let them be happy! If a man is with another man, let them be happy! If someone is with someone 20 yrs their junior – gross, but let them be happy! Adults in a consenting relationship can do what they want, be with who they want.. Neither of them owe an identity justification or validation of their relationship to anyone.
So these men are viewing their partners as status symbols? Their partners are basically a possesion? That seems like a horrible attitude towards both black and white women.
Can someone please tell me why Kim is considered as white? I’m not American and I never thought of her as a white woman.
Because her mum is Scottish/Irish and her dad’s Armenian, all of which are white. Even though, for some strange reason, some people act like only Northern/Western/( Eastern?) Europeans are white, that’s not the case. White people also come in more shades than one.
The way I learned it in school, the “white race” also covers the Middle East and North Africa. But at the end o the day, race is arbitrary. I’m from Europe btw.
And we had this conversation already.
I wonder sometimes why Americans consider people from Latin-American not-white.
Of course, I am not talking about the people there with mostly indigenous or African heritage, but people with mostly Spanish/Portuguese heritage. They came from Europe just like white people in the US or Canada did, only the more Southern part.
Don’t mean this as criticism, but am curious.
Thanks Locke Lamora & NN, I must have missed the previous conversation, I simply cannot keep up with all the conversations and the threads here.
I’m light skinned Hispanic, and I always thought I was white. I simply didn’t get the distinction growing up. Blissful or ignorant I simply didn’t get it. Imagine my surprise when I was filling out college applications and checked the “white” box only to be shut down that I wasn’t white but I was Hispanic. My mom came here when she was 7, learned the language, hauled through school winning academic awards eventually having a massive career and marrying another light skinned Hispanic. I came out darker like them and my sister was blonde with golden skin whereas I’m nice and olive.
I felt so…sad? Disconnected? When I found out I wasn’t white, but then so much fit into place. My rhythm, my waist and hips (I went to an all white school in one of the wealthiest east coast areas so yeah, I was different)
Anyway. My step dad is Italian, he’s been with me since I’m 2, and I truly believe he would have a hard time if I had dated black men growing up. Luckily I have a strong taste for tall nerdy white boys, so it wasn’t a problem, it it also never occurred to me that people wouldn’t date me because I wasn’t white.
Not to detract from your story as a whole, but I chuckled at “my rhythm”.
Ha! I went to school with all white kids, some asians, three black kids and then the rest were primarily straight up white white whiter than white. From money white. Going places in life smart and wealthy. Many douche bros.
Yeah it was amazing hahah. ONLY redeeming quality is that I spent tons of time in the city which was a quick car ride away. Hello melting pot/expanded beliefs.
I’ve got the Latin rhythm! I also have really quick reflexes. My ex would throw things at me as a surprise (like in the market) to see
If I could catch them on time. I did.
@Flan, some people don’t even consider European Hispanics to be white. I often see people use Penelope Cruz, for instance, as an example of a successful non-white actor, even though she’s from Spain. All I can say is that people have a complicated way of defining “race”. It seems to be a mix of physical appearance, culture, and genealogy. For whatever reason many people seem to consider Hispanic language and cultures as being ‘non-white’ or exotic.
@Flan – because americans have a different definition for white. I’m a white latin american. Everything about me is whiter than Kim K, but in the US she’s white and I’m not. Would I be considered a poc? At this point it is so ridiculous I hardly know!
In my mind everyone who’s descended from europeans, whether later born in the north or in the south of the american continent, is white (I’m ignoring north africa and the middle east because I havevery little knowledge of its’ ethinicities)
In the US, “white” is usually synonymous with Caucasian. So, origins from a specific region of Europe.
“In the US, “white” is usually synonymous with Caucasian. So, origins from a specific region of Europe. ”
Armenians are Caucasian.
In the US “white” seems to be based solely on the shade of skin, which is so ridiculous.
So Northern Europeans and Slavs are “white” because they tend to have pale skin.
But Southern Europeans, Arabs, Turks, Indians etc. are POC.
And that is completely different from what I was taught about races back in Russia.
We were taught that Indians are white, for example. In the US people think it is a joke.
I’m eastern European but live in North America and some people don’t think I am white. I think there is a segment of white North Americans who think that anyone who looks kind of “ethnic” can’t be white. I think that’s an ignorance thing but to some extent, the concept of “race” is a non-scientific one but to erase it completely would be acting like history didn’t once produce some notable race based issues.
For what it’s worth… “white” stretches across western Europe, central Europe, eastern Europe, Russia, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kurdistan (non-recognised country that spans Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria). And because “race” doesn’t stop at borders you’ve got “caucasians” as far as Kazakstan where a lot of people have decidedly “asian” features.
Race is a lie, there is no physical anthropologist who will tell you it’s a legitimate scientific concept. It’s just not. But the concept has existed for so long that it’s become a social concept with some significant ties to oppressive history that would be wrong to ignore. Race is confusing because it’s nonsense infused with meaning.
Keep in mind, folks, the US idea of “white” is based on the WASP (white anglo-saxon protestant), Puritan ideal. It used to be that anything outside of that was considered “ethnic” – Jewish, Italian, Armenian. Some of that became obsolete, but some of that viewpoint persists. Remember, the US (despite what we like to think) wasn’t based on the idea of freedom for all, so much as the idea of freedom for the people that specifically colonized and everyone else is kind of out of luck. It’s a legacy that’s taking a while to get away from.
It gets confusing because Middle Eastern and Latino people are treated as something different from white. Irish and Italian people weren’t always considered white either, but on forms that ask about race and ethnicity, Hispanic and Latino are separated from white/Caucasian (but Irish and Italian aren’t).
Fake tan and raven dyed hair are fooling you.
She is 100% white.
Also the butt and lip injections. Take away the fake tan, the lip and butt injections and yes she’s totally white.
I know a lot of people who still think Kim K is part African American , they just assume she is, if they don’t watch the shows or know much about her, they just assumed she was a mixed woman, half black half Hispanic or half white half black, from photos or seeing her in the press.
Here’s the thing I have noticed, since recently starting to read European history, there were several migrations of Africans in various areas of Europe Spain, Italy, England , etc all over Europe, during the past. So many of the people who call themselves ALL white, may actually have more African blood than even they know.
Armenian, Italian, Spain , many European people may have African blood, if they look in their bloodlines.
Even Reese Witherspoon is supposedly descended from, a mixed slave who was white enough to pass as all white and then branched off into white society.
How a person looks, may have very little to do with what they are racially if they dig in their family lineage.
Earlier in her career, when I didn’t know who her parents were and she had no (or maybe less) work done I didn’t know she was white either. Also, didn’t somebody once mention that in her yearbook she was voted ‘most likely to lie about her race’?
Both parents of her parents are white and so is she.
NM and black women may consider KK white, but the white women in my neck of (admittedly) Hickville, USA, don’t consider her white. “Technically white” doesn’t play. As someone else said farther down, most US citizens hold a bit tightly to their narrow notions of race and what makes someone “white.”
Pretty sure Kim K considers herself white, iirc didn’t she speak of not knowing what POC go through until she had a black daughter?
She’s open about identifying as Armenian but has never contradicted anyone IDing her as white so yeah that’s what she considers herself.
People seem to get very confused about Kim’s ethnicity because they assume she’s Middle Eastern. Armenian isn’t really Middle Eastern–it’s a mix between Middle Eastern and European. It’s a bit of a complicated area. Look at it’s neighbor Turkey as an example: some people from Turkey look very swarthy, while others are blonde and fair-skinned. Lineage also plays a role… to use another example, I have a Brazilian best friend whose grandparents were Lithuanian and as a result, she gets told all of the time that she doesn’t “look Brazilian”
This is a bit of a tricky topic for some. I’m Italian, and many people don’t consider me to be white, but I do consider myself white. I live in an area with a high Greek, Portuguese, and Spanish (from Spain) population and all of those groups consider themselves white, but other groups don’t.
It seems that everyone has their own definition of what White is.
I’m completely shocked by the fact that someone wouldnt consider Greeks and Italians white. I maybe could see the confusion about Armenia, but Greece?
Locke, you’d be amazed. My father is Italian. He has jet black hair and very bronze skin. When I was a child we had this nasty neighbor who didn’t like us, because he believed that my father wasn’t white and my parents were an interracial couple. I also had classmates at school ask me if my father was black. Of course, this was over thirty years ago when my city had almost no actual black residents. I don’t think any of these people had ever actually met someone who was black, thus their confusion.
LL: Because for centuries, Italy and other places near it were invaded repeatedly by the Moors and other North African tribes, who were predominantly black. And they’d rape or intermarry with the native population. That history led people to believe that Italians and Greeks are not “pure.” And for centuries, the US maintained a policy of “one drop” – which means that if you have a single non-white ancestor, you are classified as colored too (without regard to your own complexion). So that is where it comes from. Today, we know that is not good science.
Kim Kardashian is a white woman with an addiction to spray tans and dark hair dye and body altering procedures.
Black men still marry black women en masse. Successful black men still marry black women en masse. If you are talking about lawyers, doctors, CEOs, then it’s fine.
Internet social media doesn’t care about them though. They care about actors, footballers, rappers – most of whom aren’t married (but have baby mamas). They cheat, treat women like garbage and are garbage.
Priorities are all wrong.
I think internet social media only cares about interracial couples because they for some reason make for a better story than people marrying within their own race (which is still the norm and as such not news-worthy at all). Interracial marriages are widely discussed by racists and non-racists alike. Klicks guaranteed. With this the media creates the illusion of successful black men only wanting white women (also, doctors, lawyers, CEOs etc. are usually not in the public eye so their relationships are not interesting). It also creates an illusion that white women lately only want non-white men, which is widely discussed in misogynist and white-racist circles. The end of the white race and all that.
I think because it has been such a taboo for the longest time that it’s also the ultimate f-you when a black man dates a white woman? Considering a boy like Emmett Till got lynched for some sort of interaction with a white woman, it must have been one of the most dangerous things a black man could do.
And it probably is still a taboo considering the fear some people have that ‘interracial dating will be the end of the white race’.
For some reason that fear only works when the man is black and the woman is white, not the other way around. Hypocrisy at its finest.
(And I am aware of the reasoning: while a woman is limited to having around 1 kid per year and her fertile years are shorter than a man’s, a guy can impregnate several women at the same time so one black girl isn’t considered a big deal. Still, hypocrisy.)
How is it within the black community? Is there a different attitude towards black man + white woman vs. black woman + white man?
Good point ellie, also men that “get successful,” they leave their comminities to start a business or go to university or get a job in a city. Not all successful people but many. They expand their horizons and whether they are black or white or something else these are the people who are more likely to interact with diverse women, maybe meet diverse women from the diverse men they befriend too. On the white side (west coast at least) you see a lot of educated white men dating Asian women. And the poor /not successful /less attractive white men copy this too. The only white women left to date them are likely not too attractive. They don’t go out and become successful but through immigration they are able to go to Asia and “love who they love” an Asian or Russian/ Eastern European (Latin and African also though seems less common) woman and voila a pretty object on his arm, hey he loves who he loves and now apparently he’s a successful man. Is this similar to the black man wanting a white woman as a status OBJECT? Anyways I hate rape culture. And I think this is related . Borderline human trafficking when the woman is doing it (marrying an ugly western dude) for the sake of her family . I feel happy when I hear of a woman who escaped her husband that sponsored her. I wish men would stop thinking of us as attainable objects
What do you mean by ” they are not successfull but trough immigration they are able to date Asian/Eastern European women”?
To answer the question, Referring to men who aren’t attractive, nor Rich. They’d only be able to attract an unattractive woman here. (Whether white or another race). So they go to another country meet someone know her a few months, marry and sponsor her. Then an unattractive and not successful man has a wife who is average or pretty. Similar to the subject hand because the female is object to complete part of the males identity, something to show off
Oh, so Eastern European and Asian women are willi to marry unattractive poor guys just because they’re American? Well, isn’t that a racist/ ignorant opinion.
When desperate women around the world will marry someone they do not care for or actually want to sleep with. Not a generalization. Those are places desperate men often turn to maybe because the men have ideas about what those women are like, NOT saying anything about any group of women except that they are targeted
But that’s my point, why on Earth would you think women there are desperate?
I’m a black woman and I understand that we have been screwed over and are seen as the least desirable type of woman because the media has portrayed us as fat ugly savages most of the time or dirty over sexed ignorant loud mouths. The whole thing is a total bummer and we need to work towards fixing it. That being said I have never been okay with a forcing black men to be with me movement. The vast majority of black men are with black women, that is a fact that is being overlooked. I don’t own anybody, I don’t have a man so nobody is stealing anything from me.
@Loo
Honey I hear you, but don’t let it bring you down. What they show is an illusion and the more that you feed into it, the worse you feel about yourself.
I know plenty of men, of all races, who are attracted to black women.
I like your attitude, ” I don’t have a man so nobody is stealing anything from me” but I dont think we are trying to force anybody to be with anybody. Its about getting the community (both men and women) to be aware of how a lifetime of indoctrination regarding race and color can influence the choices you make for yourself. Its not uncommon to find men who view white women as a social status symbol, so that once he has his ivy league degree and his law firm set up, thats the next “get”. I have also heard men talk about ensuring that their babies have “that good hair”. I have also read online comments from black men talking about sleeping with white women to get back “at the man”. In other words, the relationship is an act of protest against whitehood. Tbh, that cant be good for anybody in that relationship. So sure, lots of black dudes legitimately fall in love with white women but this isnt about them. Its about the many black guys with unresolved race issues (and the black women in that same boat).
Naya, thank you for this. It’s a really good explanation/analysis.
Like you said, it can’t be good for anyone in the relationship. Even the white woman is nothing but an object, a means to an end.
@Naya thank you for your comment! It is a much better statement of what I was trying to say upthread. Very well put!
If you feel like that thank Minaj, her videos alone are vulgar, personally, I find black women have been shown in a positive light, look at all the shows featuring black women as leads and it has nothing to do with color but storyline. This hang up about losing black men to white women is Nickys way of getting att, were talking about a woman who also had butt implants etc… who cares whose dating who. If a white woman said that were losing our men to black women we would be outraged at her racist remarks but Niks remarks are OK?
Firstly, Nicki was referring to Sharon Osborne with the double standard thing. Ms Osborne publicly slammed Nicki for the nudity in her anaconda video but showed solidarity to Kim during the selfie thing talking about how women shouldn’t be shamed and shit like that but she shamed Nicki. That was specifically what Nicki was referring to.
Regarding the interracial marriage thing, the struggle is real… I know black men who think they haven’t made it until they get with a white woman. And they never stop a that, they still compare the white woman to the black woman any chance they get. Kanye as far back as 2006 fetishized white women… he’s gone on record saying how there would be no “mulattos’ to dance in rap videos without them”. He’s also made comments about how he always knew he would end up with “that hot ‘Kardishawn’ girl”… Remember he was with a black woman at that point but he was already fantasizing about a white lady and the “cute mixed kids” he was gonna have with her (he didn’t need to add that part but we know that).
You’re right that there’s nothing to be said about people dating and marrying people they want but I wish they didn’t need to put our black queens down to upgrade their white partners… in that same song, he said some demeaning thing about the black woman (trapping with a baby, daring to demand child support, having multiple kids without a partner) but there’s none about the white woman of course. It ain’t funny! Everyday I see black men on twitter talking about how they wanna get with quiet white and Latina ladies and won’t settle for “angry, nagging women” which is codeword for black women. I have no problem with a black man being with a white woman but don’t insult a black queen to feel good about your Becky. I’m sure that’s what Nicki is saying too.
Sometimes the bitch in me keep hoping that North West’s (cute kid though) melanin pushes through so she has a s colour like that of Naomi Campbell (gorgeous) for instance, it will go a long way… I know I’m wrong for his though.
Just look at the shit Beyoncé and Mr Carter gets for daring to gave a baby that looks black like her parents. if I’m not mistaken even Kim herself said North is cuter than Blue.
I never heard that song, but it seems to be really disgusting.
Also, with all the “trapping with a baby, daring to demand child support, having multiple kids without a partner” comments, he acts as if men have noooothing to do with procreation.
He sounds like a whiner to me.
I think it’s hypocritical to tell people to stop insulting others to feel good about their partners while insulting others to feel good about yourself. You both are insulting people.
Kanye has issues, those comments are terribly racist.
But at the same time, white men also see blonde women as a prize. It’s a cultural thing, that blondes are symbols of status.
You can date and fall in love with whomever you want. The issue is that most black men put down black women as if they are no longer good enough for them anymore. As a black woman I have been subjected to black men completely ignoring me in favor of my lighter skinned friends. It messes with you, when even black men make you feel inferior. If anyone wants an education on this watch “Dark Girls”. I think it’s still on Netflix.
Excellent doc. It should also still be up on youtube.
+1 to EVERYTHING. The comments can just be so exhausting and hypocritical.
I personally don’t care about the skin of a black man’s partner, but the moment he starts putting down other black women…you’re cancelled.
This!!! Some of the things I see on social media that comes out of the mouths of black men disgust me!!! “I never been with a dark skinned girl” , or “I only got faith in these light skins”. $hit is utterly disgusting considering the fact that so many of the idiots spewing this bs came out of the wombs of dark skinned women. I’ve had to check my own husband for some of his insensitive comments about black women. He isn’t color struck like many black men but he does buy into the “mad black women vs. docile white women” bs. You can love whomever you please, but the shift of black men fawning over “tropical”, “exotic” women seems to be at a all time high. What’s worse is that Kardashianesque women that are so popular at the moment are regulars at the plastic surgeon office in order to maintain their lips and butts that are inspired by WOC..the same features that we’re considered ugly and unattractive. It’s just a ugly, hurtful, vicious cycle.
Thanks for Netflix recommendation. I read, watch, and listen to so many different things thanks to CB recommendations 🙂
Thank you for the recommendation- will watch this asap
First, are we now stating as fact that Kanye is actually in love with Kim. Really? Narcissist cannot actually fall in love. You are assuming a lot with those two idiots.
Second. I get what she is saying but my whole thing is why are we as black women putting so much off our worth in black men’s hands to the point that we get insulted every time we see relationships like Kanye and Kim. I know I am an intelligent, independent and funny woman who has oodles to offer. I don’t need any man (black, white, polynesian or otherwise) to make me feel like I am worthy. If my man left tomorrow and he marries a light skin asian woman or a white woman then so be it. It was not meant to be. We as black women need to stop looking at ourselves through the white gaze and black male gaze and start valuing ourselves on our on terms.
I predict the comment section in this thread is going to be mess.
Amen!
+100000000
It almost always turns into a mess when these conversations come up.
Unfortunately I would hypothesize the trend (not sure how common it actually is) of black men wanting a status symbol white female would go away when either white men aren’t “at the top” any more OR white men start to really be into hot black women (they way they are with Asian and Latinas) and this is probably starting now. OR the patriarchy is struck down .
I have to respond to this because I am a beautiful, intelligent and talented black woman by saying I agree with Nicki Minaj about black men leaving black women for a white women. However I will add a few things more to my point to what I am saying. It is not fair for us black women living on this planet to be harassed and ridiculed by men of all race, though we have went through that since slavery and oppression. No body has told us (black women) we are beautiful and intelligent, nobody tell us that we are the mothers of great men and women and nobody will tell us that we are great existence in this wonderful planet of ours.
Gold digger by Kanye West is just a typical #1 hit song because it sounds good and black men believed that it is true that you should find a white woman with your success, because black woman are no good… On the other hand, KANYE WEST IS A CRAZY ASS M*THER ***** who thinks that he is the greatest artist ever since GOD, so what do you expect.
So I get what Nicki Minaj saying and I agree with her, that black women are being marginalized and left our because we don’t exist…. which is why black women (including myself) have the power to be strong individuals and love yourself unconditionally, it is not easy to fight to exist, I have always said this to myself………… if the black man don’t want me that is his lost, other men outside my race will have me.
She isn’t telling anyone who to love she is just talking about the facts. Many of these successful black men usually stay with lighter black or non black women as they become successful, which whatever do what you want. It becomes a problem because they end up sh*t talking black women, dark skinned black women specifically and acting like darker black women aren’t worth a damn. Yet they still want support. If you don’t support it’s because we’re jealous/haters etc. and those are the nicer comments. When their music/films/shows fail it becomes a black woman issue (see Nate Parker). It seems to be an issue at least from my view that they want our money, but not us. Which again is fine, there are black men who do want black women, but if you don’t there is no need for the disregard and disrespect that comes with it.
What irritates me is the hypocrisy of black men who will exclusively date white women then have the audacity to claim some sort of ownership over black women when they date white men.
THIS!
My boyfriend is white and the comments I get from the “any woman, but a black woman” brigade is ridiculous. We’re also the first ones to blame when black men don’t reach the success they wanted, ie Nate Parker and BOAN. Look, love who you love. It’s that simple, but I will never, NEVER put down black men the way they put down us and I would never date a non POC who puts down black people either. We’re expected to get everyone’s back, but no one ever gets ours.
A lot of men have that issue.
Some western men bitch about western women and declare women from this or that third world country so much better (because the power balance is often more skewed in those relationships). Yet, they can not stand it when western women date men from other countries.
It’s that male entitlement, where some men think they “own” women, and women’s choices should be geared directly toward a man’s comfort and convenience.
To those men I say… Boy, bye. I will date who I please, just as you do. Sorry, but I wasn’t put on this earth to blindly validate your life, your choices, your mistakes, etc.
This.
Very true. I find it hilarious and when walking passed a Black guy giving me and my White partner that “look”, I pretend not to see him then side-hug my baby closer! I don’t waste my time with them anymore than I do with racist white people starring at us.
Most Black women prefer to date men and *some* Black men use this knowledge to try to put us down. I don’t let them have power over me. They are completely shocked when *you* choose another race of man over them. And actually it bugs them when you don’t pay attention or freak out over their non-Black partner.
I usually will try to befriend their girlfriends/wives and barely pay attention to them. This also drives them crazy because it goes against the lies they tell their non-Black partners about Black women. LOL, it’s wicked fun.
“And actually it bugs them when you don’t pay attention or freak out over their non-black partner…”
OMG Yes!!! So true.
LOL I love this!
And the Church says AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
Yep.
American here, and for the record, I wouldn’t consider Kim K. white, I’d consider her Armenian, even though her mother isn’t. Sort of how Obama is considered black, even though his mother is white. If you can only see in shades of black and white, I’d say she’s “other.” Not that any of this really matters, just clarifying the view of some Americans.
But Armenian’s a nationality.
She isn’t even that at most as her father was born in the US, she’s like a third-generation Armenian or something, Armenian by culture or background.
Obama might be considered black, but he’s a biracial American. Kim is a white American/Amernian.
They tend to identify as white, most Europeans identify them as white. The WHITE race extends to outside of Western Europe, even to eastern Europe and Eurasian countries. No one classifies Russians as “other”.
Armenia is the Caucus mountains which is literally where the the word Caucasian comes from The problem with Americans is that you centuries ago decided to take it up yourself to construct a notionn of whiteness that was Aryan or Wasp based in fact back in the day you were reluctant to consider Italians and even the Irish as white
She is white
It’s not a scientific binary system though. It’s not black or white 😉
Southern Italy was invaded by Africa , so part of Italy does have African bloodlines even though today they hate to admit it. I dated a Italian guy for awhile,. His mother and father would fight about being Northern Italian and Southern Italian. She would say the Southern Italians had black blood and she was a fair haired Nortern Italian, he was dark hair Italian. It was fascinating seeing race discussed or argued about between a Italian husband and wife.
Armenians see themselves as white and of European culture. I think that should be the decisive factor here.
The narrow definition of “white” in the US always bothered me. As somebody else said, it sounds too much like the Aryan definition where the close attention is paid to coloring and the bone structure.
Not to highjack the discussion, but there is a similar situation with Russians vs. Europeans. Western Europeans don’t consider Russians quite European. I can’t just say I am “European”. People would think I am misrepresenting myself. I have to say I am Russian. There is an undercurrent here with the Russians being throught of as the lesser.
You are right, we do have a narrow definition of white here. Although Armenian is a nationality and not a race, we tend to define people by their nationality if they don’t look “American”. I’m not saying it makes sense, I’m just explaining how some Americans view it. It’s a very “us” and “them” mentality, as you say, it would be like a misrepresentation to call yourself European, sort of the same would apply to Kim K if she referred to herself as white, which I don’t know that she does?
Aren’t black women now the most-educated group in America?
The vast majority of black men still marry and date black women. However, it is true that black women are portrayed as undesirable and angry; and many black men who exclusively date non black women buy into the same negative stereotypes about black women and some times go out of their to denigrate black women.
As for love, yes people have the right to marry who and fall in love with who they want but I’m going to blunt here and say that they are a lot of black men with self hate issue who aren’t dating non black women out of love. These type of men go out of their way to talk bad about black women and lump all black women together (i.e. they had one bad experience with a black woman and suddenly all black women are that way); basically they allow non black women the leeway to be regular people and don’t just lump all of them together because of one experience and do the opposite with black women.
I’m with those who say people can date whoever they want, but I have no respect for black men who date outside the race and then a make it a point to talk bad about black women and go on ad nauseum about why non black women are so much better than black women. Those brothers are some self hating fools, and those are the ones who do seem happy to get any non black women no matter how trashy or busted she might be.
And I’m going to be real, I bet most black people (especially black women) have had at least one encounter with a good looking, fit, put together black man and then he shows up with someone who looks like Mama June and you just shake your head, lol.
Kanye is actually a great example of this double standard. Amber Rose beautifully called him out on this earlier this year; his comment about needing all of the showers after Amber. That unfortunately is typical of how many self hating black men are. They hold black women to higher standards than other women and seemingly hold all black women responsible for their own issues or whatever negative experiences they had with black women in the past.
OJ Simpson is another good example of a self hating black men. These are the type of fools who date women because they but into the worst stereotypes about black women and buy into stereotypes about white women being willing to put up with anything.
It’s always amazing to me that we as a society believe the lies we tell about ourselves to the point where they become ingrained truths in our collective consciousness. Because black women are really beautiful. And it’s so strange the way we act as if black women aren’t beautiful while simultanously we also hypersexualize young black girls to the point where it’s the fault of nine-year-old black girl that she got gang-raped.
I hope we will get better.
“black women are portrayed as undesirable and angry;” The Maury Show can take some credit for that. That show, and Jerry Springer need to be banned. I can’t believe people watch that garbage, and then they form opinions based on it.
“And I’m going to be real, I bet most black people (especially black women) have had at least one encounter with a good looking, fit, put together black man and then he shows up with someone who looks like Mama June and you just shake your head, lol.”
Oh man, that sounds like my hometown! I absolutely understand your whole point about mediocrity and that whole double standard.
I came here to say that I LOVE this thread. Love Celebitchy. But Kaiser, the question you ask “what can be done about it realistically” misses the point. The point Niki Minaj is making is that black woman as a whole race are being marginalized, portrayed in poor light, and essentially being reduced to a line in a rap song. She does not care about Kim Kardashian – she likely name checks her b/c the singer of that song which marginalizes Black woment is married to Kim Kardashian. Also, Kim Kardashian gets attention, so dropping her name (for better or worse) gets attention.
We Black women already know these poor, BS stereotypes. WE are the ones who have people look at our hair (please don’t touch it – thank you Solange, preach). WE are the ones who see ourselves portrayed in a negative light on TV, films, radio (going back to Ronald Regan and ‘welfare queen” myth that he put out there in the 1980s.
This is one reason why the natural hair movement is SO powerful – WE no longer feel beauty to be definded by a Eurocentric look. We are starting to see more role models in the media for us to fell empowered (FLOTUS, Being MaryJane, Girlfriends, Scandal/Olivia Pope, the list is getting longer), We are not taking it anymore. We are not fighting our natural curls – and you see the beauty industry scrambling to make money off of us AGAIN. This is why I am full-on working on my start-up in NYC, after living in Africa for the last 2 years.
This is why I always ensure to tell little Black girls that their hair is BEAUTIFUL and that they are so pretty. Because they often have probably never heard it.
#WeAreTheOnes
🙌🏽 that was amazing OCE. Loved every single word. Thank you.
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, but people actually walk up to you and touch your hair? They don’t ask, they just touch? That’s ignorant, despicable behaviour.
Yes.
I’m sorry you have to go through that abuse. I would never in a million years touch or grab some part of another human being without asking. I ask before I pet a stranger’s dog for pete’s sake, even if said puppy is walking right beside me and wagging his tail. How do you keep your temper, because I think I would be really offended if that happened once, nevermind kept happening?
Thanks. People are starting to do it to my nephew and he’s half-white. He turned eleven four days ago.
You should reach out and touch their hair back! And be like, wow, is this what white people hair is like? Hehe. Seriously, though, that is so rude.
In the 19th and early 20th century, Italians, Jews and the Irish, along with people from most Slavic countries weren’t considered white in America. They weren’t Anglo-Saxon, their moorish ancestry made their coloring dark and they were largely Catholic, not Protestant. After a few generations of assimilation they’re now consider white in America by virtue of having light skin, but no, that wasn’t always the case. Especially in the northeast, where WASPs prevailed on high society.
Edit: this was in response to a comment that seems to have been deleted about “when we’re Italians and the Irish and Jews considered non white.”
I wonder at that point if the word used was white. I’m guessing it was “American” but then people clued in that you can’t say people who have citizenship aren’t American? Or it wasn’t talked about but those ppl simply weren’t welcome to join into wasp culture. Back then black was “coloured” so maybe white wasn’t said either? I have no idea honestly. But if Irish people are often fair so seems weird to ever say they’re not white
Unfortunately, Kim Kardashian is white. Yep, so am I . We have to lay claim to that.
And no matter what you think of Kanye West, Golddigger is a Great song !
My cousin is in his 2nd year in the NFL. His gf is white. Now, I have no problem with interracial dating since my great times 5 grandfather is white. Also cousins are married to white guys, but this chick decided to inform my cousin’s sister that the reason he wasn’t dating black women anymore was due to the fact we’re loud, uncouth and difficult to be around. She said this. Apparently my idiotic cousin believes that because he allowed this chick to insult his sister, mother, grandmother and family with this bs. It angers me because Becky is so disrespectful, but we know she targeted him simply because he was black and a NFL player. Yet, black women are the problem.
Preach!
Woah, she said that to his sister? So black women are so bad but you can date the sons they’ve raised? Same as black men act white men are the devil but date their daughters. That’s crazy.
But I feel like when men are dumb enough to be targeted like this, they get what they deserve. All these stories out there about men who’ve been played but they keep falling for it.
His gf almost got her a$$ beat, but my cousin pulled his sister away. The nerve…the nerve! And I’m waiting for the day she dumps him for someone with more money.
Sooo would she say that about her daughter if she had one with him?
I once heard it said that misogynoir is the love language of many White women /black men couples
Some Black men love to project their issues onto Black women by making sweeping negative generalizations about them . Their white spouses will eat this up , not think to challenge it and use it stroke their own ego. Oftentimes the most condescending, and antagonistic white women are those that are with black men
I visit another site and whenever iR relationships comes up like clockwork there are always a couple of white women who join into brag that their black man doesn’t want Black women (as if thats not a red flag about his self image ) or to give black women there some condescending lecture based on some nonsense black men said about black women
Yes Love is love but sometimes it s rooted in some healthy dynamics it comes as no surprise that the highest divorce rate of ALL marriages is between white women and black men
I think these white women have a rude wake up call when they have biracial girl children. Their biracial daughters (especially when the father is very dark skinned like Kanye) are often quite dark skinned (like north west) and not really any different in colour to many black women.
I think its not the individual level of who falls in love with whom, but the perpetuated notion that marrying someone who is white or light skinned is a better catch. I’m from southern India and even within my community it’s considered a win if a guy or a girl marries someone who is light/north Indian/white, whereas if the opposite were to happen, people would make some sort of comment. And while it’s true that you shouldn’t listen to people say, the fact of the matter is that your self worth does get affected by this belief. I completely understand what Nikki means here and it’s a sad reality that needs to change.
I grew up knowing there was colorism in the black community – thanks School Daze. But I was incredibly naïve about it’s place in the Indian community. I worked for years at a hospital with a high ratio of Indian healthcare workers. I worked primarily with Indian Hindus, but was friends with Christian Indians, and close friends with a Muslim Indian. One day my Hindu co-worker starting talking about “South Indians” in a derogatory way, and nosy me asked what she was talking about. She told me they were darker skinned, and they were more likely to be Christian (I’m unclear at this point if she was talking about India in general, or the Indian healthcare workers at our hospital specifically). She clearly thought they were beneath her, and I can’t say it didn’t change the way I looked at her.
Nn is correct on the classification of race of Italians and Irish specifically in America. They were NOT considered white during the initial wave of immigration in the 1800s. Actually at that time race–and in particular “whiteness”–was tied to religion and class. 1800s “White” = Protestant. Gradually over the next 100 or so years they came to be seen as white, but they were definitely seen as an inferior race during early American immigration.
American History major, ftw.
Edit–I guess the original comment was deleted.
I was just thinking that it depends on how far back you go, because I have friends who don’t feel white although they sure look white. Because when they grew up Czech wasn’t, Eastern European wasnt. I didn’t realize Italians and Irish were legitimately labelled that though . Thanks for the history tidbit.
It definitely shows that race is a construct, something we make to put people in to boxes and fit them with the labels we are comfortable with.
Just curious: In what country were your Czech friends considered non-white? B/c my husband is Czech, and Czechs are, geographically, from Central Europe, and they were definitely considered white from their first arrival/immigration to the U.S. They are considered white in Europe, as well—though some Southern European and Eastern Europeans (mainly Jews) were not, especially when they first came to the U.S. But I have never heard of a place where Czechs are considered non-white. I wonder where you’re referring to?
She grew up in Canada in the late 60s.
it was shocking to me, because I’d never heard anything like that from people my age, but I’m not going to argue someone else’s experience.
Ditto the pale Persian women I know who don’t identify as white and the Indian descent lady who refers to herself as black and African. It just reaffirms that when it comes to race, I know nothing.
I think racism is so indelibly entwined with classism and other forms of discrimination that it gets tricky. I’d be more likely to label my friends experiences as xenophobia, as opposed to racism, but at a certain point the effect is the similar and it’s just semantics.
This was discussed and perfectly explained in Save The Last Dance.
You mean the best dance movie ever?
That’s the one!
Wasn’t the sister played by Kerry Washington?? I loved that movie!
Yes! And Bianca Lawson does NOT age.
And in Spike Lee’s ‘Jungle Fever’. The scene where the women are sitting around talking is AMAZING.
Many Black men see having a White wife as a marker of success; that a White woman truly proves that his economic and social status has improved. He no longer has to date Black women because he doesn’t *need* to. He’s “graduated” from it. He sees himself as above it. He can be a step closer to his White male counterparts because of it.
I mean, think about it. Some men group cars, houses, and women together as objects to achieve after success is made. We’re just materials to them. It is a reflection of their status. So, it’s certainly possible that a Black man can think that having a White woman by his side is almost like driving a Rolls-Royce Phantom; that a White woman matches the money in his bank account or the label on the back of his tuxedo. She’s as if she is a brand name.
Sadly, there are Black men in this world simply do not see their own female counterparts as being “luxurious” or of quality. Self-hate a do it.
Italians were routinely labeled WOP–white on paper. It was intended as a pejorative.
In the immortal words of En Vogue: Free Your Mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iQbBbMAFE
this is the best comment.
women should stick together. some men see blondes as a prize. some men think asians are the best wives. most men want to eff black women because they have amazing curves…. men are full of s**t!
also, i do not agree that Beyonce is a good example. People adore her, I personally think she is great talent, but her sheer clothing and too provocative image is distracting. She should focus on music more and less what she is wearing. Write better songs, take more singing lessons, she could be the biggest legacy of the whole generation.
I have had this same discussion with my black gay male friends.I don’t know if it’s a coincidence or not but a lot(not all) of the more well known(celebrity) openly gay black men have white partners They site dozens of guys but a few examples are athletes like Michael Sam,former NBA player Jason Collins ,wrestler Darren Young,CNN’s Don Lemon,RuPaul,Director Lee Daniels.It seems to them that every time a black guy comes out his partner is white(or not Black) so they feel the same way some Black women do.That once a guy becomes successful or famous he leaves your ass for a White Guy.:-)
As someone mentioned earlier MOST black men have black partners but it is a fact that probably almost half of prominent black men in Sports,Entertainment,etc have non Black partners.But I also know it’s true that a lot of Black guys that don’t have a pot to p#ss in, date non Black women.Half of my male cousins have White girlfriends and most of them are working class,a couple of them don’t even have a job.
The reason this is an issue is because most of the Black women that I personally know,DON’T date (non Black) Men.Some just don’t find them attractive,other feel they should be “loyal” to black men.So if there are 10 Black Women and 8 Black men. If 3 of the 8 men are dating non Black women.And only 2 of the Black women date non Black men.That leaves 5 Black men for the 8 Black women.Of course I am making up these numbers based on data and my personal experiences.
The reason I started off with 8 Black men is because I read there are 52 Black women for every 48 Black men in America.Also I know that approximately 750,000 Black Men are behind bars(over 220K in jail,over 530K in prison).Also I thought about the mortality rate for Black men which is the highest of any group in America.
Because I date Black,Latino and White guys and (one Asian guy) Black guys dating White women doesn’t really bother me. I don’t feel rejected or overlooked anymore but I used to when I was in high school.
Well, I think we can mostly agree that Kim Kardashian and her sisters are more silicone than anything else these days. At this point she has transcended race.
This^^
I am from Mozambique, southern Africa, and as an avid cb reader, educated, BLACK, cultured woman, it saddens me to admit that what Nicki says here rings true to me. We’re so far away, yet in my country and continent we absorb your (American) culture so much, that our singers music videos (not only in Mozambique, in several spots in Africa), will mostly have dark skinned girls when they need to be sexual, half naked and twerking, and the white/light skinned woman is sweet, sensual, sweet and desirable as #goals. Most songs about love will have a light skin woman as the interest. On twitter, they will always tweet pictures of beautiful mixed/”exotic” looking girls, and diss dark skinned girls.
It saddens me because our youth is getting the understanding that white/light skin women are the ultimate goal – just like Kanye said. Men desire the black girl/woman who will lighten her skin – therefore our young girls and women are bleaching. Not too long ago I walked past a high-school friend whom I hadn’t seen in years, looking at least 5 shades lighter. She was coming from the gym, and no makeup, and she ran in the building in shame when she saw me. I mean, why do we hate our skin so much?
Why do we put ourselves through that? For men? It is a really hard world out here for us black women. So many stereotypes, so many issues with skin tone, hair, sexuality, body image…
It’s a rough world for women. It’s a rough world for black, latina, or any non-white woman. All striving to become closer to the “ideal”.
First of all it’s good to see a post from you Mimz. Missed you. Also, you are so right. White/Light is still very much held up as the ideal. There’s a lot of skin bleaching going on right now. I saw a special about it the other day about how prevalent it is in places like Jamaica.
It is my dream that women everywhere, esp., black women can get to a place where we can love ourselves and the skin we’re in.
However there is one correct shade of white. I am very pale (you can see my veins, which makes people uneasy) and people often tell me to go out in the sun, get a tan, get a spray tan, go to the beach, etc. or they assume I’m ill.
I am in no way saying I get a hard time by being this white but my shade is not acceptable either, at least where I live, and those of us who do not fit into this “perfect shade” are made to feel less attractive and worthy.
Quite shitty that Kanye had such lyrics since his mother is a dark skinned woman. Anyway, I very much dislike Minaj and everything she does. Obviously, she has some issues with who she is, cause she completely changed her appearance (much like Kardashians) and now she’s just projecting her anger
To the people above who mentioned North African ethnicities above, there’s a lot of ethnic diversity, particularly in the Maghreb region.
I’m part Moroccan and I have read lots of studies on the subject for my degree (morocco is one of the places where humans are believed to have left Africa from). Most Moroccans are a mix of Berber (the descendants of the prehistoric inhabitants of north Africa. Both pools have a lot of genetic diversity within them, I know born and bred Moroccans who are dark skinned, people who look almost Nordic and anything in the middle (tanned skin with giant ginger afros for example). Studies show genes from Iceland to Sudan appearing in the population depending on where in the country you go. This isn’t even considering the impact of the Jewish community (which is decreasing) and the impact the Barbary slave trade had ethnically. From what I understand it’s a similar story across the northern coast. So I wouldn’t call North Africans necessarily white or black (people I know tend to get very pissed off if you use that binary notion of race) but white skin/black skin/brown skin all come under the umbrella of North African. It’s also why I believe North African isn’t necessarily the same as Middle eastern as the regions have had different ethnic/cultural/linguistic etc influences.
Hope some one here enjoyed my little rant! I love reading this site btw. Everyone seems so nice 🙂
To those who commented above about not touching hair. I am white (English/German mix). I received ++curly hair from my parents / dirty blond and I wear it long (even though my mother thinks I am too old now to wear it long – I am just over 50 – she thinks older women should wear short hair). Anyway people love to touch my hair – personally it doesn’t bother me. A few years ago we traveled to New Orleans and went to church. We were the only white family out of like 400 people. My husband sat being me and during prayer a young boy thought no one was looking (because everyone is suppose to close their eyes!!) And wanted badly to touch my hair so he reached forward and touched it several times during prayer. I didn’t feel it but my husband told me about it. I thought it was really cute.
I’m really glad for you that people touching your hair doesn’t bother you.
I just want to point out that it doesn’t have the same social history as walking up to a black woman and touching her hair, which harkens back to being on an auction block and having your hair touched, teeth examined, body violated so that you could be sold and owned by someone else. Although we’re a few hundred years removed from slavery, touching black women’s hear is still taboo because it takes away or rather feels threatening to our agency. Well, mine and many women I know. Don’t let me presume to speak for all black women everywhere.
I have curly hair, too, and if someone I don’t know tries to touch it, or any part of my body/face, we’re gonna have a problem.
Oh as if! Kim makes more money than Kanye does, so the real gold digger is him.
Besides it’s so corny to take jabs at Kim.
As the feminist she’s trying to be Nikky is just going at women which is the opposite IMO
Did she really criticize Kim though. It seems like her criticism was directed at Kanye and other black men who denigrate black women. Even the last Minak post wasn’t criticizing Kim. She was talking about the double standards that are used to judge black women vs white women.
That said, I’m sure she knows that referencing Kim will get headlines.
Agreed. She’s pointing out a double-standard, not taking a personal jab at Kim or being anti-feminist toward another woman.
She didn’t say anything negative about Kim.
She talked about Kanye’s lyrics not being funny,or a joke but the ugly truth.
Since Kanye has become famous his significant others have gotten lighter,it may or may not be a coincidence.
Kirsch-You have completely missed the point of what Niki was referring to.
Very odd to a European that Arabs And Persians are considered POC!
So basically if you are not blonde in USA you are a POC?
Yes blonde hair blue eyes Barbie types. What Hitler was obssessed with. And now we have Trump. And people are shocked that a major portion of American population is racist.