I’ve watched with vague interest as the couple from my favorite HGTV show have become superstars in the past year. I started watching HGTV’s Fixer Upper last year, mostly because it was on when I was at the gym. It’s the perfect gym-watching show – you really don’t need to hear what Chip and Joanna Gaines are saying to each other, you can just watch them totally refurbish these older or rundown tear-downs in Waco, Texas. If you do listen to them, you’ve probably noticed that Chip and Joanna have a lot of chemistry, and that they completely adore each other. They have a happy, photogenic young family and a farm full of animals. They’re also pretty churchy. There’s nothing wrong with that, but as they’ve gotten more and more attention, people are starting to take a closer look at their church, Antioch Community Church. And then this happened:
Fixer Upper stars Chip and Joanna Gaines have come under scrutiny after a BuzzFeed story resurrected an anti-same-sex marriage lecture by their pastor, Jimmy Seibert, of Antioch Community Church in Waco, Texas. In the lecture, which is available to view online, Seibert reaffirmed Antioch’s position on homosexuality after the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in June 2015.
“God defined marriage, not you and I. God defined masculine and feminine, male and female, not you and I,” Seibert told the crowd. “Truth No. 1: Homosexuality is a sin. The lie: Homosexuality is not a sin.”
Seibert also said that members of the LGBT community have a choice and can change their sexual orientation. “Truth No. 2: God is able to give us power over every sin, including homosexuality. Lie No. 2: I am a homosexual in thought and action, and I cannot change,” he said. “We can change, contrary to what you hear. I’ve worked with people for over 30 years — I have seen hundreds of people personally change their direction of same-sex attraction from a homosexual lifestyle to a heterosexual lifestyle. It doesn’t mean they don’t struggle with feelings, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t hurting, it doesn’t mean it’s not challenging. But they have chosen to change. And there has always been grace there for those who choose that.”
The Antioch Community Church’s website also states that marriage should be between a man and a woman. “Marriage is the uniting of one man and one woman in covenant commitment for a lifetime,” the website says. “[A husband] has the God-given responsibility to provide for, protect and lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.”
The reality TV personalities, who have yet to feature a same-sex couple on their hit HGTV show, are Christian and attend the nondenominational, evangelical church founded by Seibert in 1999. The Gaines’ company, Magnolia, and HGTV have not yet responded to requests for comment by Us Weekly or BuzzFeed about whether the couple’s beliefs align with their church’s.
Fixer Upper viewers have started calling for Chip and Joanna to clarify their stance on same-sex marriage. “If Chip and Joanna Gaines end up being anti-LGBT, I am cancelling my mag subscription and ignoring their show,” one tweeter wrote, while another added, “As a Fixer Upper fan, I would love to know @joannagaines and @chippergaines’s thoughts on their pastor’s hateful, anti-LGBT beliefs.”
Considering they’ve lived in Texas for decades and considering they’re both born-again Christians, it does not surprise me at all that their pastor preaches the gospel of gay conversion therapy and homosexuality-is-a-choice. Does this mean that the Gaines subscribe to every single thing their pastor preaches? I doubt it. While they have never featured a same-sex couple on their show, are there a lot of same-sex couples in Waco looking for cheap fixer-upper properties decorated with shiplap and tons of giant clocks? I’m really asking, because even though I think the answer is “probably not,” I don’t know for sure. It wouldn’t hurt for the Gaines to clarify their thoughts on gay marriage and gay-conversion therapy, and it wouldn’t hurt for HGTV to press the issue a little bit too, because HGTV seems like a pretty LGBT-friendly network (their other shows frequently feature same-sex families). I knew there was going to be an issue when Joanna and Chip started getting the full Duggar treatment in People Magazine. Sigh… please don’t be secretly horrible, Chip and Joanna.
Photos courtesy of People, Instagram.
Considering how disappointing this nation of “good people” turned out to be when it came to electing our president, it would not surprise me to learn that these two blissfully in love people would willingly choose to make it more difficult for other people to have the same. My trust is broken.
My trust is also broken. I feel like I cannot take anyone at face value anymore because, in their heart of hearts, they may actually hate me for reasons entirely beyond my control.
As for gay conversion, I had a friend in college who, under extreme pressure from his parents, went to a conversion camp. Instead of “curing” him, it left him so shattered he killed himslf the day he got home.
That is terrible. I’m so sorry.
Oh… that hurts me, Megan. And people wonder why it’s so devastating that America put a man who believes in conversion therapy in the Vice Presidency.
That makes me so sad. Why can’t we live and let live?
It was several decades ago and the fact that such ignorance still exists infuriates me. When did this world get its fill of love? If someone wants to love someone, you should rejoice, not condemn.
That’s awful 🙁 Unfortunately, it’s not that surprising given that a lot of these conversion camps use torture as one of their techniques: http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1734-5-things-i-learned-at-pray-away-gay-camp.html
These camps really need to be outlawed. “[E]very major medical and mental health organization in the United States has issued a statement condemning the use of conversion therapy.” http://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy
Megan, I’m so very sorry about your friend. I used to work w gay runaway teens–their parents and other family had rejected them/ thrown them out of their homes–and the tragedies of too many of their young lives were heart wrenching. They were at a very high risk for suicide, not b/c they were gay, but b/c of how homophobic, vile people treated them. This was over a decade ago, and I am so scared for the LGBT U.S population now, under Trump & Pence. I had thought, with such landmarks as the legalization of gay marriage, that things were beginning to get better for the LGBT in this country….Now I’m scared that all of that hard won progress could be ended, or thwarted…I agree w you completely: to find love is very rare, so why on earth would anyone condemn people who search for and often find it in their own gender? Why isn’t finding love in either gender a reason to rejoice? It baffles and enrages me to know that hatred and mean-spiritedness and bigotry still flourish in a substantial number of people. I just can’t comprehend such persistent, groundless ignorance and blindness.
I am so sorry to hear this about your friend. Mind control disguised as “therapy” should be criminalized. In 2020 conversation therapy is on the top of my list to criminalize. We have to be strong in these four years.
I am so sorry, Megan. That is beyond horrible.
My trust is also broken. I look at people so differently since the election. It sucks and I don’t like it but it is the truth.
Reading about your friend’s experience, my heart literally hurt me just now. But it also enrages me. So sorry for your loss, even if it was a decade ago.
I also have lost faith in thinking I actually know people. Its pretty sickening to find out that quite a few people I know for 20+ years ( or knew because our relationships have broken due to their secret racism ) who do have disabled children and siblings that are homosexual, voted for a bigoted hateful president. People are so wrapped up into their own self ignorance and bitterness that they do not see how their decisions affect an entire country.
I was hooked on Chip And Joanna show too. Not anymore.
I know I know I know! It’s unfathamable to me how so many parents with children that have the same syndrome (very rare so it’s a pretty close knit small community) as mine voted for Trump. It’s like they put their hatred of HRC and their obsession with shutting down PP above their own children’s well being. I’m just shocked and so sad about it.
I was stunned to find out a friend with a child with severe disabilities voted for the jack ass that has no problem making fun of people with disabilities. My world no longer makes sense.
I went to Baylor in Waco. That church is crazy. I went to a few services. And some of he people who go there are VERY intense. I’m trying to be nice about it. That being said, I have a lot of good friends who went there and still do. They are not anti-gay or pro-conversion. So I wouldn’t go as far as saying Chip and Jojo are. I’ve had quite a few friends on that show- all great, accepting people.
My parents go to an evangelical church in Houston that preaches the same hateful dogma, yet they swear they’re not the least bit homophobic or misogynist (but their church doesn’t allow women in leadership positions). And they are very kind people. But when you embrace these beliefs and support the church that espouses them, you own it too unless you stand up and call it out.
I wonder if Chip and Joanna would watch the show of a couple whose Pastor and church were against interracial marriages, like their own?
Something to think about…
I just don’t understand….and maybe it’s because I’m an atheist but do you get to cherry-pick like that? I guess Catholics who are pro-choice do that but IDK……it seems like if you belong to a Church that espouses those kind of beliefs then you don’t get to say that you only subscribe to A & B, but not X and Z.
It’s actually pretty common though. Most people that go to church/synagogue etc don’t agree with everything that their preacher etc says. They might not even be aware of a specific belief or tenet the church holds. I guess the most famous version of that were the Obamas with Reverend Wright.
I don’t think the Obamas were unaware of Rev. wright’s sermons – after all that’s where the ‘Audacity of Hope,’ came from. I think they felt for political expediency it was best to give the impression they were cutting ties
Remember, for Dems, things get blown out of proportion and they are held to much higher standards.
Wright quoting a white army general who said the ‘chickens are coming home to roost,’ or essentially discussing how America has failed it’s marginalized people is put on equal footing as a pervert Republican nominee who admits to molesting women.
Yeah sure, much higher standards. That’s why all the Dems were always all over Clinton for his behavior.
I don’t think regular church goers will consider it cherry picking though. It’s a complex and complicated subject. For example, Christianity is clearly an institution established on racism as supported in the bible; however, there are a lot of African Americans who still identify as Christian and will defend the bible. They will simply say, well people were preaching the word wrong or incorrectly. It could also be a cultural Southern thing. Here in the South (traditionally) you were just raised in the church, so you have your home church and a visiting church. As you get older, there are times your church leader would teach something you may personally disagree with but you just keep it moving. I know plenty in my age group from smaller towns who have a traditional home church and recognize that they don’t share all of those views but it’s your childhood church.
Christianity has its origins in Africa and where in the bible have you found racism? Can’t be the same bible that defends interracial relationships that’s for sure.
The Bible says “neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor free–all are one in Christ Jesus.” The Bible constantly called on people to be kind to foreigners and people of different ethnic backgrounds, and, yes, Moses famously had a black wife. It’s by no means a perfect religious book, but one can make a clear argument that it’s anti-racist and anti-capitalist and that Jesus even skirted the gender norms of the time. I think the biggest issue with the Bible is its stance on homosexuality. It calls same-sex intercourse an abomination in the Old Testament, but “cooler” Eastern religions were also anti-gay and anti-anal sex, specifically.
The story of Noah casting out Ham was used as one of the justifications for slavery in the US. The tribe of Ham were believed to be dark-skinned and were banished to Africa. “The Curse of Ham” said the enslavement of Africans was penance for Ham’s sin.
bleu_moon This “Curse of Ham” myth has been debunked repeatedly. You can do some research to find out more. Also, the enslavement of Africans in the Western world was unlike any form of slavery that predated it. Many ancient cultures had slaves/servants, but nothing unlike this belief that dark-skinned people were genetically inferior subhumans meant to be in bondage forever. There’s a reason many of the abolitionists were Christians, and many slaveholders didn’t want blacks to read, but especially the Bible, because they identified with the Egyptians.
@WTW- Debunk? If you read about the history of slavery in the US it was used as a justification in the 1800’s. Yes, the reading of the “Curse of Ham/Curse of Canaan” has changed over time, but those are more modern interpretations. I have done a lot of research but gave a cliff notes version because I didn’t think we were going for a full theological discussion here. If you’d like I can give a more detailed history of interpretations of Genesis 9:20-27. I think it’s disingenuous for modern Christians to deny what has happened in the past because it’s “bad press” or makes us feel squeamish now.
But that is an American interpretation and an American issue. Christianity is not exclusive to America.
@Kitten – I’ve known plenty of people (v religious country here) who identify as being of whatever faith they were born into but who pick and choose the bits they want to adhere to or just don’t bother with it.
Which is healthy because we’d all be dead of our own dogmas otherwise. My mother is not above telling off our priest for sermons she perceives to be misogynistic or prejudiced against people not of our faith.
your Mom sounds awesome but she also seems to be the exception to me. I spent a lot of time in the south. I did hear one family rib the pastor once because he apparently always preaches how important it is to attend church every Sunday, but then he skipped one Sunday to go hunting, but that was really the only criticism I ever heard.
You make a great point. I suppose that it’s better for people pick and chose than to espouse hateful beliefs.
What I don’t understand – and maybe it’s bc I think most organized religion does more harm than good – is I could NEVER sit in a pew and listen to my pastor say the things he said above. I wouldn’t want my children hearing that message either. I would walk out, not to ever return. How can people sit for Sunday services and if they don’t agree with the hate the pastor is spewing, sit there and absorb it?? How can they give money to a church like that? They’re complicit IMO.
Well that’s kind of what I was getting at with my Catholics example. I understand that it’s common but is it common in churches for pastors to preach about conversion therapy?
It just seems a bit more extreme to me than what I heard growing up, the few times that I attended church with a friend.
I hadn’t thought about the fact that a church-goer might not be aware of every tenant or that it might be a childhood church, though, so thanks for explaining that.
I’ve been to several churches, including in Texas, and never heard a pastor preach in favor of conversion therapy. I don’t think that’s standard protocol. I’ve lived in California most of my life, and I think most pastors know they’re likely to have gay parishioners in the pews, so they’re cautious about how they approach the subject. The church I sporadically attend now seems accepting of LGBT people. My friend knows a lesbian couple who attends, and before they showed up, they asked if they would be welcome there, and the church leaders said of course. After the Supreme Court’s marriage decision, I remember the pastor saying essentially that LGBT people were part of our community and should be loved, and my pastor is a black man from Mississippi. The church itself is mixed racially, with whites, blacks, Asians and Latinos, so it is already a pretty special place. The most pro-gay church one can go to would be the Episcopalian Church. They are super liberal — on a number of issues.
The wackiest thing I heard at my ex-church was that praying could make an amputated limb grow back. People choose how to interpret the source material to fit their own beliefs, a lot of the time. Very flexible, which is why I know quite a few liberal Catholics. Didn’t work out for me.
I went through RCIA to become Catholic (Catholic classes for adults at the church for about a year-once a week and Sunday Mass) and my priest was the best. I swear I could see Christ’s love come through when he did his Sermons. His love was so great. When people in the class brought up homosexuality, he was so loving and he never said it was wrong. When we spoke of other denominations and religions, he gently reminded us that every religion holds beautiful truths. He may have been an exception though. I pick and choose. I do. I believe in a LGBTQ rights and a woman’s right to choose what is best for herself when pregnant. I also believe many things from other denominations and religions that Catholics may not necessarily agree with. I identify as Catholic though. As for the Gaines, I can give them a pass if they address the issue and give their stance. If they are not for marriage equality then viewers can choose for themselves if they support that rhetoric. I myself would hope that they support LGBTQ rights. I am disappointed they would want to even be in the room when a sermon like that was given, and more so if their children heard it, but they are not responsible for his words. I am really hoping that was a one off.
@Mikeyangel, I converted to Catholicism few years ago as an adult, and I couldn’t formulated my thoughts and positions better that you did. I agree on everything.
I feel the same. To me it’s like saying you “reluctantly” voted for DT. In the end, the vote was the vote. And church members fund their churches, so even if there’s no personal belief, the funding allows the church to continue to preach and support hatred and discrimination. It’s impossible to turn a blind eye without being hypocritical.
This is my thinking too, WATP but again, I’m a non-believer so perhaps it’s easy for me to take an all-or-nothing approach.
I consider myself Catholic because I was raised Catholic and confirmed, baptized, etc in the Church. But I absolutely cherry pick and the only thing I’ve “funded” the church with is food to stock the food pantry and presents for low-income families at Christmas. No one has to give a dime to my church, and even Sunday school classes, etc are free to those who can’t afford them.
I’ve never heard a priest discuss homosexuality or label it a sin. I’d get up and walk out if that happened. I know the official stance from the Vatican is homophobic, but individual churches don’t necessarily have to focus on those stances. I’ve definitely heard them talk about the sanctity of life, but they don’t focus on how wrong abortion is, just how important life is – if that makes sense. They back that up with a lot of resources for pregnant women who can’t afford or don’t want to keep the child.
But I’m a pro-choice liberal who knows homosexuality isn’t a choice and everyone should have equal rights, including marriage. I voted for Hillary with bells on. And I live in Texas. My point is, nothing is black or white. People are a lot more nuanced than that.
kitten – i was raised catholic – now an atheist and would go as far as to say that in modern times where science is available to explain natural phenomenon – organized religion is dangerous. that being said – i also think people do and can cherry pick if they feel religious organizations are important to their personal community.
just one example: my inlaws belong to a “modern” born again fellowship sect. they went to a very very traditional covenant church their entire lives and left when the pastor was caught cheating on his wife with the church secretary. apparently they were devastated by it, could not abide by the hypocrisy and switched to a new “cool” church where they wear jeans and play acoustic guitars but turned out to have much more strict and backwards beliefs. my husband said when first born again they were maniacs and were horrible and he had a huge falling out with them over their new bigotry. but reason prevailed, they have found their minds again and realize that is not what Christianity represents to them. they enjoy the friendships and community and place to worship in their “cool” church but they have but have pulled back on the involvement in recent years with certain members b/c they realize they do not share opinions. i know my MIL truly regrets some of the things she repeated when she first joined the church and now makes her opinion known to the pastor when she feels things go too far.
So–and I don’t mean this to be harsh-but it almost sounds like they were brainwashed???
It’s just interesting and somewhat shocking to me that they could flip like a switch then flip back. Also odd that a Church can be both laid-back and extreme, you know?
Anyway, thanks for sharing that story. Interesting stuff indeed.
THANK YOU!!!!! I’m agnostic on my best day, but what I find especially problematic with religion (at least, with the very devoted I know) is it seems to wipe away personal responsibility/accountability both positive and negative. For example, I encouraged a coworker to attend a conference I felt would be a wonderful experience for her and hand held her through the scholarship program and helped her make a case to her supervisors why it was important for her to go. While she was there I saw numerous fb posts about how great god was for giving her this opportunity, how #blessed she was, etc. And I’m over here like, no, god didn’t do anything, I helped you and YOU worked your butt off. Just like when I went through fertility treatments and got pregnant I couldn’t believe all the people crediting god (that I knew got pregnant at the fertility center), so I’ve made a huge point of hashtaging #thankyoumodernmedicine. But when I’ve mentioned this to a friend who is very christian, she stumbles then says well, god put that person in your life, god put that doctor through med school so they could help you. Its all circular logic and it annoys me to no end. Something good happens, god. Something bad, gods will. It’s all part of his plan (til it’s not, like if you’re gay), but if you pray he might help if you’re devoted enough? Doesn’t he have a plan already? My head hurts…
That rant aside, I REALLY hope this story isn’t true, but like posters above I’ve lost so much trust and actually thought about this during an episode last night. Waiting to hear their stance and prepared to walk as a fan if it’s true. It’s the only control I have left 🙁
Kitten – I agree they were TOTALLY brainwashed! They were open to a new experience but also a little “broken” from the thing that happened with their other church and i think their new church takes advantage of that exact situation. they specifically target people who are looking for something they are missing and prey on it. i think the church’s model is to seem laid back to draw people who are young (LOTS of young couples with dreads and piercings at their church) or feel their church is “stuck in the past” and once you get them comfortable they dig in with the heavy “people who don’t believe what we do will go to hell and you need to pray for them and witness to them”. like any cult – i can see how good people can get sucked into that when they are vulnerable and looking for a place to belong.
This is exactly why I personally think organized religion is totally bonkers and dangerous. But – if people, like my in-laws, associate church life with their core community and need it to feel connected to the world – I can’t begrudge them sticking with it – particularly when they now make an effort to think outside the church’s backwards opinions.
I was raised as a Christian as well. I was very religious through my teen years and into my early 20s. I didn’t really start to study the bible until my mid- 20s and…. honestly? Nothing will shake your believe like actually reading the bible all the way through and studying it. I began reading a ton of religious literature and history. There is a reason Christians cherry pick- it avoids the conflicts and uglier parts of the bible. I’ve been through so many stages of belief because I didn’t want to admit I doubted. I tried to rationalize that I could believe in God but not the bible. I attended many different churches and denominations before coming to grip with being first an agnostic and then finally an atheist. It took me until quite recently in my 40’s to be at peace with non-belief. I still have not told my very Christian parents, although I recently discovered my brother is also an atheist now. I miss believing. It was incredibly comforting thinking there was a master plan for everything and that bad things didn’t “just happen.”
ETA: I do wish atheists had more of a sense of community like the Unitarians or other liberal branches. I miss the idea of “church family.”
@kb I think it matters what diocese you’re from. Catholic here from Philadelphia and oo boy was it conservative growing up (k-12 catholic school too). I’m almost 30 for reference and haven’t been a member for about 10 years so don’t know how stances changed. But, for example, we were taught that if you were even a doctor or nurse that worked at a hospital that performed (but didn’t perform yourself) abortions that was a mortal sin. We were taught that homosexuality was also a mortal sin if acted on. Now pray tell how many folks that us messed up by being tell that as long as they never act on their feelings then their identity is ok.
Of course not saying everywheres the same and I have plenty of friends and family thar pick and choose. Just sharing my own experience
I’m agnostic, but I do my own form of “cherry picking.” I grew up in the Christian church, but I’ve spent a lot of time learning about Buddhism, Hinduism, Daoism, and Confucianism. And I kind of “cherry pick,” in a way that I use what works for me from each school of thought. But I also believe, in essence, that many religions are all pointing toward the same thing. It’s all about kindness, compassion, and love. It’s humans who came and distorted the message to make it into a set of rules for who deserves love and who does not. I don’t think Jesus wanted to be worshipped, and I think he’d have been a democrat.
+1 shambles. I think they all point to the same thing, too.
I think Jesus would have been Green Party or simply an independent, but, yes Democrat values of helping people align more with his message than the GOP platform does.
“It doesn’t mean they don’t struggle with feelings, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t hurting, it doesn’t mean it’s not challenging. But they have chosen to change” – – – which doesn’t occur…and this insistence condemns people to walk thru life suffering. (For What? – the tale that God does this to you? – and you are Weak…and such -).
Is this Christian? – to see people struggle with pain and challenge, just to belong to a group, supposedly guaranteed an afterlife – though no one can describe that afterlife, in any way that is sensible – perhaps that is the point – no one knows… Goodness – it’s only sex – all the animals are enjoying themselves. Why should I believe anything that is not written on the mountains? If there was a God who loved Us, certainly we would All Be Saved and “he” wouldn’t choose manipulation as a device… Whoops! – that takes away from their self-righteous story, (that destroys brain cells, by cancelling out your right to think, and the real integrity chosen an individual.
Believe, and Be Saved”…Quite possibly my brain was developed so I might survive —not for a fantasy life, after I’m dead, but to live! Sunrises, and sunsets, and the planet floating amongst the stars – that is Saved for me. I’m good to die, and I am proud to call the earth my sepulcher.
That’s sort of why I started to move away from the church as I got older. I still participate in some activities within our local Catholic church, but I just have such a hard time wrapping my head around the anti choice, homosexuality is a sin, anti birth control doctrines within the church as well as the anti science sentiments. I would feel like I’m cherry picking things I like while ignoring the things I find intolerant or hateful. So as I have gotten older, I have moved farther away from the church. Of course my mom thinks it is to spite her and that it’s shameful my five year old doesn’t know every bible story ever.
The childhood church I attended had a priest accused of molesting a middle school aged boy he was supposedly counseling, and I think that also left a taint on the church for me forever. I couldn’t see how parishioners could ignore some of the more extreme stuff priests/pastors were saying in good conscience. That’s just me, though.
I’m culturally Catholic, like I reflexively cross myself sometimes, I pray the rosary to meditate, and I send check to my super liberal parish every month. But i am pro-choice, and pro-same sex marriage, and generally very liberal in my thinking. I guess I’m agnostic in my beliefs. I am very conservative in the way I live my own life but I don’t want to live in a theocracy and I have no interest in telling others what to do. And to me being Catholic has always been about the social justice aspect of the churches teaching. So I take what I like and leave the rest.
Cherry picking kind of bugs me, especially on big issues like equal rights for women and for gay people. I got lucky in that my church (the body, not just the congregation I belong to) has grown more liberal as I have gotten older, but staying in a church with a horrible record because of “tradition” does nothing to advance it. People always claim that “the church” is unchanging, but that’s malarkey and anyone giving it half a look can see that. Every body evolves.
If we liberal Catholics leave who’ll be left to push the church to change? I’d rather stay and fight. I belong to my parishes social justice committee that, among other things, out reaches to lgbt Catholics and the women’s role the church committee that educates our fellow parishioners on the historic leadership roles women took in the early church. We have an openly homosexual priest give mass on a regular basis. There is not one way to be Catholic. I did recently decline to participate in a diocese wide fundraiser with a letter saying my money will go to groups marginalized by the church.
There are huge swaths of Catholics that continue to fight for women to be priests and all of those other liberal beliefs. You’re painting with too broad of a brush.
I was of the understanding that evangelical Christians don’t get to pick and choose what they believe and that they take everything in the Bible as literal and at face value. I fully admit I could be wrong on this.
There are some evangelical Christians who claim to be biblical literalists. The “God said it so I believe it” crowd. As a former Christian it’s been my experience that most of those people haven’t actually read the bible all the way through. It’s an easy “bumper sticker” way to think of a very complex and frequently contradictory book. Most modern US Christians will claim to only follow the New Testament. The idea being that the coming of Jesus made the Old Testament laws irrelevant. Rather convenient since it would be impossible to live the Old Testament way in modern society.
I’m a Catholic since birth. I’m also pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. I don’t agree with everything that is taught. I believe in the commandments–you know, don’t lie, don’t steal, don’t kill–all those bad things people shouldn’t do in general if they want to live a life of integrity. Oh, and I like the golden rule–treat others the way you want to be treated. I like the church for the basic lessons of be a good person. I don’t subscribe to the hateful stuff. Can I cherry pick stuff? Sure I can. Nobody has kicked me out yet.
It would be hard to find a church with a belief system that any Christian can get behind 100%. I would argue it’s about 50 at best.
I don’t know if they agree with their pastor or not, but I would suggest looking at the culture context of church in the south- it’s pretty much a requirement in certain groups. Especially, I would imagine retail, realtors, home improvement etc.
A preacher/pastor/reverend is not the church or God, at best he or she (one hopes) is sharing a divine interpretation of the Gospel. But given the countless branches of Christianity, countless church leaders it’s a impossible to know what any one of your church leaders or branch believe in all the time. Even the same branches have differences, those branches have branches, etc.
So yes, you can cherry pick it. Because it’s one person’s interpretation of an interpretation, and at the end of the day you’re suppose to have an indivdiual relationship with God and Christ and church is just for personal growth and to support the community.
Most churches are anti homosexuality and gay marriage, especially gay marriage. It’s no surprise theirs, an evangelical church, would be in Waco, Texas. As long as they aren’t pushing some agenda on their show, it’s none of my business.
All of my Catholic friends are fine with gay marriage, but still are practicing Catholics.
The Presbyterian Church (USA) has made a lot of progress. The church I used to attend is one of the ones where the minister will perform weddings for gay parishioners.
The thing is, the money they make from the show could give their church a lot more funding, and funding means more influence and reach. Their success also gives them more of a public platform, and that message starts to get out there. If their evangelical, they will look for all possible ways to preach their beliefs and try to convert others. The TV show turns into a mission.
But their TV show isn’t turning into a mission. So far, they haven’t used it as an anti-gay platform and I seriously doubt they ever will, not unless Trump outlaws homosexuality or something, in which case their silly show will be the least of our problems.
Then don’t watch their show! It really is that easy! The Gaines have every right to believe in what they want (not saying they are anti-gay. I don’t know), and you have every right to not watch their show. I am pro gay marriage, pro a women’s right to choose, etc., but, I also believe that freedom of religion is important. I don’t agree with many Catholic or Muslim, beliefs either. Would I tell someone that they do not have the right to practice their religion, because I don’t believe their dogma? Of course not! I am really disturbed by the fact, that their seems to be less tolerance in these modern times. Like I said, no one has to watch Fixer Upper! Turn the channel! It’s called freedom of choice!
+1 Mrs.BPitt! I find it exhausting that we are turning into an us vs. them society. People are allowed to have differing beliefs! That is something that is allowed. If everyone had the same thoughts, feelings and beliefs – the world would be a sad place. Since when are folks not allowed to feel the way they feel; why can’t their beliefs be different from yours? You may not agree with it but it is what it is. What the Pastor said was awful but that is what he believes and he is entitled to it, just like I am entitled to disagree with him. Why do we constantly need celebrities to say something to dispel or confirm something that has been said about what they personally hold true and believe in? That is their personal business. As long as they are not using it as a weapon, to negatively affect the lives of others who cares what they believe. If their beliefs offend you, then as Mrs.BPitt said – change the channel, don’t watch and don’t support them. I personally like the show for design ideas – the family is cute but I generally skip those parts because I just want to see the work they are doing on the home. I am not watching because of their family values – I watch to see how the homes turn out. I personally put more stock in the values, ethics, morals and beliefs that I got from my grandparents. I think celebrities will do and say what they have to, in order to protect their brand and money, but in the personal lives they may not hold the same beliefs/values/morals/ ethics as they portray in public.
Could not agree more Mrsbpitt!
Ultimately it sounds like this organization preaches ostracizing an entire population and actively goes out to harm people through conversion therapy. So it’s slightly different than other religions – sounds a bit more zealous. I’m disappointed in the Gaines and will probably stop watching their show over the conversion therapy part – any organization that actively tells a population that they are evil and can pray away their “evilness” is just vile.
I attended a Baptist church growing up, and the pastor’s son was gay. That particular church was always very accepting and progressive, and all about loving and helping others. That’s what I learned and carry with me, even if I no longer attend. It was quite an eye opener to learn about other churches eventually, and how bigoted and un-Christian they could be, that’s for sure.
Not true necessarily, think it heavily depends on what region you live. In the South and midwest, yeah this may apply….but West Coast, PNW & NE churches are going to be more liberal unless you choose to go to a conservative church.
They have a right to their own beliefs & are not obligated to explain themselves. I don’t see them openly protesting for or against anything. Let them be.
That’s basically how I feel. They aren’t protesting or supporting publically anything either way. They keep their talking points to specific topics and that’s fair.
No, that time has passed. It’s Trump’s America now and everything is politicized. Finding out how many people were actually racist and anti-LGBT rights has been devastating. I truly thought we had progressed as a country, but obviously I was naive. The best way to fight back now is to boycott people and companies that hold these views. We should buy products and support people who have our progressive views. We need to speak with our dollars. That includes not watching TV shows with hosts that attend churches spouting hateful ideology.
@bleu_moon – yes to everything you said. We absolutely need to speak with our dollars; it’s been absolutely traumatic to realize how many people will actively suppress other people with their votes and then refuse to acknowledge the impact they had.
Yeah, but these people are not going around saying they dislike the gays, and using their show as a platform to talk about their views. They show their love for shiplap, large clocks, and barn doors as room decor. Religion is a personal subject and for some this discussion is tied to their spiritual beliefs. As long as they are not adding to discussion either way, they shouldn’t be forced to out their views. That’s just bizarre and wrong to force someone to say something.
@bleu_moon Well said. I’m tired of people who passively support hate getting a free pass.
but we aren’t supporting hate, we’re supporting decor.
It’s not like they actively came out against gays and I choose to ignore it, either. They are being private and mum on that topic. If we start discriminating and punishing people for their private thoughts and intimate beliefs, I’m fairly sure everyone is going down. Most people have at least some ugly thoughts, it’s whether you act on them or catch them before they hurt anyone that matters.
Passive support of hate is what got Trump elected, if the “secretly voted” theories are true.
Gay PEOPLE, or members of the LGBT community. Please stop saying “gays” or “the gays.” Words matter, and it’s dehumanizing
@AmunetMaat- As I said further down thread, if they are “good” Christians they tithe 10% to their church. So even if they aren’t talking about their beliefs on TV, supporting their show allows them to fund a church preaching hate.
but it’s like quibbling over whose taxes are paying for what. You know, all those Conservatives who don’t want their taxes paying for moochers and such, when maybe $1 of their taxes goes towards any social services or something like that. If they happen to disagree with their pastor, then they are probably choosing to believe that their money is going towards helping other members, paying for events, etc., and, again, we all do this to some degree. I was anti-war in Iraq and had to just choose to think that *my* money went elsewhere, and it’s the money of war supporters that was paying for Iraq.
@Timbuktu- I would argue that taxes are the law in this country. You cannot choose not to pay taxes without legal consequences. You do choose whether or not to tithe and the church you will tithe to. Giving a church a portion of your income is endorsing that organization’s beliefs. It’s why a conservative wouldn’t donate to Planned Parenthood, but I have and will continue to do so.
I agree that it’s a fine line.
I would be best described as an agnostic. However, I have friends of many faiths and do support them. Recently, I attended the baptism of a friend at a local mega-church. The messaging and constant pleas for giving (one million dollars in the next month?!?!) struck me the hardest. The gist of the pastor’s message was by giving to the church, you are supporting all of the works they do. They even had a video message, before the pastor and after the Christian rock band with stadium quality lightshow, that likened your tithe as the engine car that pulled the rest of the train/church activities. I think I left the church a bit more agnostic that day.
Absolutely tithers know that their money goes to support church activity in their name. It’s not similar to taxes as taxes arei mandatory. A person chooses a church that aligns with their beliefs and then support the church with their money.
Watching their show or buying their books or whatever products they sell supports their lifestyle and any money they donate to their church. Also their taste in decor sucks.
I am with you, bleu!!!
Agree. People’s personal beliefs shouldn’t be an issue unless they’re using their platform to push hateful things. They aren’t. #teamshiplap
I don’t know, I have to agree with @BonnieJean.
If they are anti-gay, they are smart enough to keep it private and, ultimately, they have a constitutional right to believe whatever they want. As long as they keep that belief private and don’t attack, insult, discriminate or publicly condemn gay people, I’m not sure we can ask for more.
We’re free to stop watching them for it, of course, but not sure forcing them to comment is right and even necessary – they are religious rural Texans, I think them being anti-gay is a given, not a surprise. And no, I’m not saying all religious Texans are anti-gay, but if I had to gamble, I’d gamble on “yes” and would feel pretty good about my odds.
I’m with you. It’s their own business.
Me too. When they openly discriminate we have a bone to pick.
…am I the only one who’s gotten kind of a gay vibe from Chip?
I haven’t. I just think he’s gotten goofier and goofier every season, to the point he’s become downright annoying. I liked him better in the earlier seasons.
Don’t they have just 2 seasons, with the third underway?
I side-eye anyone who promotes their relationship as special.
I don’t necessarily get a gay vibe, but I get a really weird vibe from him. I don’t watch the show because if it.
No I don’t think he’s in the closet. But, his schtick is to just be goofy and it is annoying. I only watch the show for Joanna. At this point we can only guess their feelings on this subject, and until their beliefs are made public it’s really not our business and it’s rude to speculate. Leave Joanna alone,I say!
Looking at the cover photos I am wondering if People is trying to give subtle shade regarding Chip and Joanna:
Gwen Stefani: her romance with Blake is rumoured to be all for publicity and ratings for the “Voice”
Janet Jackson: rumours she is actually using a surrogate and not pregnant
Donald Trump: well goes without saying the man likes to lie and make up stories
So is this People magazine’s way of saying Chip and Joanna are really hiding something? Hmmm
Peope magazine has gone to hell since the gay Mafia from Entertainment Weekly took over. This story doesn’t surprize me. There are a lot of people in media pushing their own agenda now on both sides. Fair and balanced went out with Jimmy Carter.
I just don’t feel like they are required to disclose their thoughts on this topic. They host an HGTV show. Their primary job is to discuss fixer uppers in Waco, Texas. This just seems extreme. I’m not a church-goer, but I have been to several churches. There are times your Pastor/Preacher/Reverand will speak or lecture on a topic you disagree with. It happens. You don’t have to like or agree with every little thing your Pastor says. However, it should cause you to evaluate your spiritual journey and guidance.
If a pastor at one of the churches you attended spouted hate, wouldn’t you leave? Yeah, they didn’t.
but I don’t feel about communion with God the same way they do. So, of course I’d leave, but it isn’t a hard decision for me, either.
A better question for me would be: If your favorite grandma spouted hate at Thanksgiving table – would you leave? That is truly a hard question and no, I don’t think I’d leave. I’d try to educate her, if she was lucid, and I might even tolerate it if I felt she was not in full control of her mind anymore and that talking to her is useless at this point.
You don’t have a choice of grandparent. You do have a choice of church. And even with grandparents, you have a right to distance or separation if that grandparent expresses a doctrine or behavior that is hateful to you. If your pastor speaks ill of others you have a right to disagree. Anything else is mind control.
I don’t think we need another speculative witch hunt.
@BonnieJean- It’s not a “witch hunt.” It’s making thoughtful choices about how you spend your money and the media you support. I think we’ve all seen how trying to compartmentalize people’s hateful beliefs from the part of them we like has worked out. We’ve managed to “normalize” passive hate and racism in America.
@Who ARE These people?
No, some people are “born” into their churches, and if their entire family attends this church or belongs to this specific religion, it can be just as painful to separate yourself from it as to distance yourself from a family member. Perhaps even more painful as you might lose your entire family if you move away from your religion.
Furthermore, it wasn’t about what I *can* do with a parent, but what I want to do. Perhaps my grandmother took care of me when I was a kid, taught me to cook, perhaps my best childhood memories are tied to this person, perhaps she never showed anything but love to me? I think if the conflict becomes immediate: say a family member comes out as gay and grandma rejects him, that taking a stand would be one thing. But if the family has no gay people inside it and no gay friends, grandma doesn’t go around insulting gay people, she just quietly believes that they are lost souls and never brings it up unless questioned, then it’s a principle more than anything else, and I think it can be very difficult to push away someone who’s been nothing but loving to you just on principle. Everyone makes a different choice on that one, but I definitely don’t think I’m the one to judge those who don’t have the heart to break up with grandma.
The Obamas didn’t leave Jeremiah Wright’s church when he was spewing hate.
Robin, you are correct.
Reverend Wright didn’t “spew hate.”
Do you even know what he said and in what context?
I’m not saying his frank sermon about the failures of his country and its oppression of women and minorities didn’t offend some people, but it was taken out of context. Still, by no stretch was it “hate.” There’s blatant over the top demonization that happened to Wright, a complete blowing out of proportion in order to undermine the then would-be first Black President.
Maybe you should wiki ‘Jeremiah Wright Controversy.’
Rev. Wright, unlike our P* grabbing widow scamming, housing discriminating draftdodging vile President Elect was a United States Marine and Navy man who enlisted during conflict, was honored by LBJ…who fought for this country instead of fleeing like a scared b* claiming bad feetsies as Trump did.
@Robin & @BonnieJean- What hate did Jeremiah Wright preach? As I recall he spoke openly about being opposed to the Iraq war and made some perhaps ill advised remarks about the government planting weapons of mass destruction if they didn’t find any in Iraq. That blew up on conservative talk radio and Fox News as “Wright hates America.”
If the church they belong to supports hate, then they support hate. It is that simple. It is not as though there are a lack of churches where they live.
You do realize that a majority of preachers are anti-gay right? Therefore a lot of churches are too. Especially in Waco, Texas. That doesn’t mean that folks who attend church there or anywhere are anti-gay. Or Christians and Catholics who are really religious are anti-gay. Just like not all Muslims are radical.
They still have a choice. Many churches here in Chicago support gay families. The Gaines are rolling in all that HGTV money. They have a choice on where to live and where to worship. People are not getting a free pass from me on this nonsense anymore. They choose to worship in a hateful place.
I know very few religious people who disagree with their pastors.
I personally know a Transgender Methodist pastor. And I live in Georgia. It’s 2016. There is a choice.
If you tithe to a church that promotes hate, even one Sunday a year, you are a part of the problem.
The Preacher also said that the man provides and the woman submits. I don’t think the Gaines follow that ethos! And until there’s categorical proof they are anti-LGBT through their words or direct action, I am not participating in a witch hunt against them. I do think Joanna’s style has felt a little stale lately, but that’s where I feel I have licence to publicly opine on them as they put their work out there. This sort of gossip is very condemning and is the kind of subtle information that insinuates bigotry of people that have not shown it thus far. It’s dangerous, it’s what’s wrong with a lot of journalism and fake news today, and it’s very real that people have lost careers on speculative accusations, and it’s reminiscent of McCarthyism. I don’t want part in condemning them unless it’s been proven, bar none, that the Gaines actively are homophobic.
I am not going to assume they believe in things just because their pastor said it, and I disagree with people saying that if they don’t agree with their pastor, they should just find another church or move. There is more to one’s faith than just two or three things that a preacher talks about. If they have faith in their religion, it’s not based on these issues at all (whether they agree or disagree). I’m Catholic and my faith is not based on abortion and gay marriage, (which if you don’t know much about the religion, you’d think that that’s all there is to it, the way the media portrays it in general). (And I am not against abortion or gay marriage, but I still love my faith and my church.) It’s much deeper and more spiritual for me, and for many others.
Our civil/legal system SHOULD be inclusive of everyone, should not discriminate, and the laws should be fair to all. However, a religious institution has a right to teach its beliefs/faith according to its truth, just as people have a right to disagree or agree with it. If we have a true separation of church and state, just as people don’t want religious institutions to influence the state, it’s the same way vice versa. A true free society should be able to survive and flourish with different opinions and beliefs–as long as institutions teaching these beliefs are not participating and sponsoring criminal (including verbal abuse) acts against those they don’t agree with.
Now if the Gaines’ church was, I don’t know, sponsoring groups to commit crimes against the LGBT community in Waco, then there are legal grounds for prosecution obviously; and unless the Gaines are specifically financing the violence and/or picking up their guns and committing these crimes, it’s not on them at all. My church donates to pro-life causes, which is their right. I donate to my church based on the fact that my church does a lot of charity work for many causes that I do support, and that it needs money to maintain facilities too. I’m not going to stop supporting my parish, and I’m sure I’m not the only person who thinks that way.
I’m not willing to participate in this witch-hunt based on the fact that we don’t know how they personally feel. But I also don’t care how they personally feel about things. Their show is not a religious show, who cares? I have a few liberal and conservative friends who are equally so narrow-minded about their beliefs, they mentally discriminate against those who do not share their opinions (and yes it’s tiring). But they don’t treat people badly, they don’t act upon what they think, even if they are mentally super biased. Who am I to tell them they are not allowed to think what they want? Are we now policing people’s thoughts too?
What is scary to me, is the number of people who find it okay to make assumptions on what someone privately believes, and then find it acceptable to play judge and jury, and think its their RIGHT to play enforcer too. We can’t say we want freedom of speech, thought, and belief for all EXCEPT those who do not share the same belief or opinion. So yeah, this is a non-story for me. I don’t care about their preacher, and I still love their show.
@JH82DC….You are my hero!!!
“Our civil/legal system SHOULD be inclusive of everyone, should not discriminate, and the laws should be fair to all. However, a religious institution has a right to teach its beliefs/faith according to its truth, just as people have a right to disagree or agree with it. If we have a true separation of church and state, just as people don’t want religious institutions to influence the state, it’s the same way vice versa. A true free society should be able to survive and flourish with different opinions and beliefs–as long as institutions teaching these beliefs are not participating and sponsoring criminal (including verbal abuse) acts against those they don’t agree with.”
totally agree with you
I actually really don’t like their show. I’m more of a Property Brothers kind of girl.
Tiny house hunting etc for me.
I want a tiny house so badly!
Eww the Property Brothers. I actually loved their show when they first aired years ago, but over time I don’t know what happened. Do you see they have a new show in New Orleans? I’m tempted.
The special they did remodeling the Canadian cabin was unwatchable! They were doing schtick! Ugh. Stone House Revival and Flea Market Flip are what’s on over here.
I don’t like Property Brothers!!!! I love, Love It Or List It! I also, enjoy House Hunters!
As an interior designer, their show aggravates the you-know-what out of me. You don’t get to turn every house into something that looks like your last 97 projects (aka, boring, generic Wayfair-sponsored put-together-furniture-filled hellscape) and call yourself a design expert. Everyone (designer and client) has a style that they gravitate towards, but if you can’t come up with anything beyond “shiplap and fake-distressing” for every single client, you don’t actually have it. Does anyone remember what she did to that New England-style cape house? I was actually offended.
I’m so glad to hear you say that! I watch the show and enjoy it for the entertainment factor but I really don’t get her style. Remember when she turned that Victorian into a distressed barn looking cabin? So odd. Then again, I’ve never been a visionary person in interior design, so I wasn’t sure my feelings were…valid?
Of course your feelings were valid, that faux-cabin was an abomination hahaha! She either doesn’t get or doesn’t care that her actual job is to take what the client wants and add something to their vision that makes it unique to them, because that’s what people are, you know, paying for. The problem with the show, as I see it, is that it’s not about what the clients want, but about selling The Gaines Family, Inc. It would be one thing is the show was footing the bill for the renovations, but clients are actually paying for her expertise and thus it’s kind of gross from where I’m sitting!
Amen! Not only is it repetitive, but it’s like fifteen years behind the times and just an ugly mess! And don’t get me started on his teeth. The veneers are too damn big!
We have HGTV on a lot in our break room at work so I’ve seen parts of their show and it’s cute and entertaining. If they turn out to be anti-gay though I will probably change the channel. They are entitled to believe what they want but I don’t have to support it.
if you donate money to a church that preach hateful comments, violence or prone hate you are part of the problem.
Yup. If they are “good Christians” they tithe 10% to their church. A church that preaches hateful ideas.
You are correct. I left my church because they were preaching against people who are gay & gay marriage. I have many close friends who are gay and I couldn’t live with that kind of dissonance so I left. I now worship somewhere where everyone is accepted. There is always a choice.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they were. I love fixer upper , the style of homes they do is my favorite . They paint themselves as a happily married couple with four young kids and a thriving business . When I watch the show , it’s in the back of my mind that they’re living in Texas and are religious, so I automatically believe they’re conservative . Hearing that their pastor is preaching hate and promoting conversion therapy is a deal breaker for me . As much as I love the show and their designs, I can’t watch the show if that’s the way they believe . A person has to draw a line in the sand somewhere and bigotry is where I do .
Do let HGTV know, ok?
lololol @Who ARE These People?
If someone is hurting , feeling challenged to live a particular way, struggling…they haven’t “changed” they’ve been bullied to conform to another’s view of what’s appropriate. And in this case at supposed cost of their soul. Newsflash, preacherman, you are not God and your judgemental actions aren’t saving anyone, least of all yourself. Good luck in that Book of Life review…it isn’t going to be pretty.
Humanity can so be the worst.
I know, right? What a messed up way of viewing it! “Hey, we bullied and guilted you into marrying a woman and having kids, now all of you are utterly miserable, but God is happy!”.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they did believe in this stuff. I like their show and their chemistry but it is easy to see that they subscribe to pretty stereotypical gender roles. On the one hand, I do think, eh, it’s not like they are preaching like the Duck Dynasty folks so who cares, but on the other, if they are out as an evangelical that says a lot about their beliefs without them having to open their mouths, especially if they are giving money that church. Given that HGTV is such a gay friendly network, which is why I love it, things must get a little uncomfortable for them. Nothing that the almighty dollar can’t fix though.
Yah, i think I have a bigger problem with them being sellouts than bigots, TBH.
I love their show but from the beginning I’ve been pretty confident this is true. As the show has gone on, haven’t you gotten the sense that their religious beliefs have been intentionally played down? I remember an early episode where Johanna stopped the kids for a spontaneous prayer circle over something, but since then, less and less. If it’s true, I object to them subverting their beliefs to be more marketable. Makes me question the strength of those beliefs in the first place. Don’t support an agenda that disenfranchises millions of Americans if you’re willing to mute it for the right price.
I agree with you. I remember all the prayers about putting signs up, etc. at the beginning, I almost stopped watching them for that reason, but I guess they realized that while they’d have a more devout (heh, in both senses) following if they boast their faith, they’ll have a larger one if they don’t…
I don’t know what “chemistry” people are talking about, quite honestly. I think Johanna is very mean to Chip and puts him down a lot, and not in a cute funny way, either. She often acts like he is her annoying stupid child, although on a couple of occasions, it was actually he who was right and she ridiculed him because SHE wasn’t familiar with something (hologram comes to mind). Yes, she did throw him a fantastic birthday party, and I am, in general, quite a believer that actions speak louder than words, so I’m not saying she hates him or anything, but I just don’t feel like they have good chemistry on screen.
HE does come across as goofy and caring and truly in love with his wife, but it’s a one-way street and, for that reason, doesn’t look good, IMO.
Thank you…I was coming here to say the same thing. I tried with this show, but I find them unwatchable. She doesn’t appear to like him very much and he come across as childlike (not in a good way).
I find them really annoying and fake.
IDK why ya’ll think Pretty young people cant be horrible and assbackwards, has this election and endless articles about the Ivanka voter not taught ANYTHING!?!?!
+1. I saw so many hateful comments on Hillary’s Instagram feed and, if IG photos are believed, most of them were not neckbeards or unwashed militia men who found their way onto social media; quite the contrary. It’s sad to see young pretty people who are supporting regressive politics, but there ya have it.
Born and raised West Texan while also being a born and raised Catholic and despite this I do support gay marriage as surprising as that may sound. Not all of Texas thinks a certain way as Im hoping not all people from a certain area think the same way…
Anyways, giving them the benefit of the doubt here because as I mentioned above I’m a practicing Catholic who doesn’t agree with the church’s views on certain issues. That doesn’t mean i cut ties completely with my faith/community and if the church I’m attending is praising hate, I find a different church. Also I hate the cherry picking catholic line, I can still be Catholic and question certain viewpoints that the church currently has. Ultimately I feel my religion and faith provide me guidance and security in troubling or not so troubling times…it’s not a all or nothing situation.
I refuse to buy into the narrative that religious people are just sheep who do what they are told. I know many people like you who attend, listen, think, and challenge. The courage to question is the true reflection of devotion. I think of the very many Catholics who (finally) refused to stop covering up the abuse scandals.
But you have to be willing to take the stand. My sense here is that they don’t have an issue with their church’s teachings, but they’re staying mum for the money.
These 2 always gave me a weird vibe.
GLad I’m not the only one
I used to like them but ever since the People cover I’ve been turned off. “Faith” is always a red flag because it’s so often used as a dog whistle. Plus they try way too hard to be perfect, which I don’t trust-reminds me if those facebook friends who pretend to have this perfect life but are actually cheating on their spouses. Nobody needs to air all of their dirty laundry but extreme phoniness doesn’t help anyone.
I personally think the show is tedious, and the “design” is a cross bet Pottery Barn and Restoration Hardware. It’s essentially the same house every show.
That being said- who can be surprised that these folks attend a church that purports to espouse these beliefs? The bigger -MUCH bigger-prob is that this country has elected someone who’ll in all likelihood nominate someone to the Supreme Court to make sure what little steps have been taken towards equality are gutted.
I see God in a very broad way. I think “God” (I’m agnostic) or divinity comes in many forms, and I try to love them all. My chosen form of the divine is nature, the stars, etc.
Either way, I wholeheartedly believe that whatever divinity is present in this world does NOT want you to be miserable. Divinity is all about love, and love is present in all beings. Gay people and gay marriages included. “God,” if that’s your word, does not want you to deny who you are in your heart until you are suicidal and miserable.
Love is love.
I hate these two so hard. They’re so annoying and try too hard to be like Christina and Tarek El Moussa from Flip or Flop.
I had an opportunity to spend some time with 2 of the “talent” from HGTV earlier this year and they were super gossipy. Both said Chip and Joanna are really that friendly and, in Chip’s case, goofy, but both are also wicked smart, Drew and Jonathan Scott are friendly but super focused and always on the run. We asked about Tarek and Christina and the only thing they would say was Tarek was “OK.”
Wicked smart? I think you can tell from their very own show that they aren’t. Unless you mean street smarts or something.
Do you think they aren’t smart because you buy into their schtick that they are just silly small town Texas folks? They actually have quite the little empire in Waco and both are pretty bright people. I can’t attest to their religious beliefs but neither one of them is dumb and yes, know this first hand from before they were a glimmer in some HGTV execs eye.
like I said, I think they aren’t smart because I watched their show. The way they talk, even the way Chip sometimes introduces the house (you know how they like to calling them “the sprawling ranch” or whatever), you can tell that someone wrote a fancy name for him and he had to learn it and is reciting from memory, rather than speaking naturally.
I’m sure they are pretty bright, I just wouldn’t characterize them as “wicked smart”. But perhaps it’s a difference in terminology. I’d reserve that for a handful of extraordinarily intelligent people, and I wouldn’t call Chip and Johanna extraordinarily intelligent.
My husband met the Scott twins when he was on business in Vegas and he said they are both SOOO nice, but Drew is brighter than Jonathan. He said neither stuck out as geniuses but they’re definitely talented and good in their line of work. I think I just hate Chip’s face.
Christina’s voice and eyelashes are so distracting. One time they (Tarek and helper) dropped a countertop by accident and everyone could see it was just some random old countertop and this annoyed me, I don’t want extra artificial drama. And Joanna Gaines always makes the same interior with washed out whites, and they are a bit too cute with everything, and the praying sessions irritate me. I love Island Hunters!
Joanna and Chip and Terek and Christina, always seem to make the same house over and over! Same colors, same decor, etc. That is why I stopped watching both these shows. As I posted above, I like Love it or List It, and House Hunters. I also like, House Hunters International. It is interesting to see how different cultures live and what their homes look like…
Has she ever designed a kitchen without an island? I’ve yet to see her do it, and that’s three houses per episode! I’m also tired of the same colour palette over and over.
I love HH International. Also Hawaii Life. Colour everywhere!
Tarek and Christina get a pass from me, because by the nature of their business they have to appeal to as many potential buyers as possible and are really kind of limited in what they can do design-wise because of that. Love It or List It is the only tolerable show on HGTV for me because Hilary says the things I WISH I could say to clients, i.e. “Well, shock of all shocks the water pooling in your basement is a bad thing. What exactly do you want me to do about that?” 😉
I have no idea where the Gaines’ stand, but I used to travel through I-35 through Waco a lot for work and for years there was a big billboard right near the Welcome to Waco sign promoting conversion therapy and Pray Away the Gay. Almost crashed my car the first time I saw it, just couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I think they are also both Baylor grads, which is a conservative Christian college.
The most caring loving kind and liberal person I ever had the honor of knowing graduated from Baylor. It’s a good school with a great reputation in many areas, people flock there for different reasons.
So, because of one billboard, you believe everyone from Waco, Texas, and everyone who goes to, or went to Baylor College is anti-gay….Wow…Yup, all Southerners are toothpick chewing, tobacco spitting, trailer living, bigots! You do know, that you buying into that, makes you as bad as people who believe all gay people are sinners, right?
Wow, way to jump to conclusions and be judgemental and defensive! I actually NEVER said that at all, simply referenced a billboard that was in Waco, right on the highway that is the main route from south to north Texas. Waco is the Gaines’ home town, and noone said Baylor wasn’t a good school, however they market themselves as a conservative Christian college and pretty much any grad/faculty/Waco resident will tell you that, along with their horrible record on athletes/sexual assault. I know the south, was born there and lived over half my adult life in the region, including 15 years in Texas, and worked with people from every corner of the state. Waco and the surrounding area is one of the least diverse parts of the state, and unfortunately some of the most bigoted people I have ever met were from east and south Texas.
I became uncomfortable with them when they started being marketed to the conservative christian crowd. They have done interviews focused on their religious beliefs before (see Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, Focus on the Family) so I knew something like this was coming. Yes, they have kept it off their show and I do appreciate the separation but they do put themselves out there in the world as evangelical believers so the assumption is they support everything that goes along with it. If they are willing to sit down in an interview and represent their “brand” and talk about their religious beliefs, then I think this is fair game.
Focus on the Family? Ok, the Gaines are now on my do not watch list. Terrible, horrible organization. Anyone who associates with it is tainted.
There’s literally no doubt in my mind that these two buy into these antiquated and unscientific ideas about homosexuality. I’m from Texas and let me tell you, Waco is literally an armpit. Besides the fact that there’s a lot of crime in Waco, it’s also where Baylor University is located, the largest Southern Baptist-affiliated university in the US (I believe). As BU employs a lot of the Waco locals, university politics spills over into local politics all the time. I can’t imagine that any upper-class white person who lives there wouldn’t be indoctrinated with that belief system.
I am very much a “believe/think/do/worship whatever makes you happy, as long as you don’t hurt anyone else” kind of person. Their religious beliefs are their own business. BUT- if they are supporting a church that promotes conversion therapy, that hurts others. If they vote against marriage equality, that hurts others. if they are supporting a preacher that says women must be subservient to men, that hurts others. And I can’t get on board with that. People may disagree with a sermon or idea but still belong to a church, but I can’t understand supporting bigotry.
I’ve only seen their show a little, but all of a sudden in the past few months they have been EVERYWHERE. It makes me not want to watch the show at all.
If you believe all those things hurt people, that makes anti-religion, because pretty much all churches are preaching that women must be subservient to men. I don’t know any church that treats men and women as absolute equal, even if they don’t say that in sermons, the very structure of the church makes it crystal clear.
I used to watch the show but got tired of all the time focused on special moments with the “kiddos” As a general principle though I don’t think celebrities owe me details about their personal thoughts as long as its kept off the show
I’ve always felt there is something eerily Pollyanna about this couple. I too used to watch their show at the gym with no sound and closed captioning. I couldn’t put my finger on it.
Also, I know I’m in the minority here, but I have never cared for their design esthetic. It’s completely safe and boring and reminds me of everything that was trendy in 2013.
I was talking with this my friend the other day, how in the Western world, there’s a closeted homophobe for every closeted homosexual.
My mom has a bisexual daughter who regularly dated women (yours truly). She’s not even that religious, but she absolutely hated everything LGBT. Now she has more or less come to terms with me (curiously this all happened when I started dating a man). She still has massive hatred for gay men, though, and she thinks I don’t notice because she doesn’t say anything when I’m around. She has made comments such as:
– “With you is different, because you dress like a woman and you talk like a woman. You’re not one of those smelly lesbians. That guy (George Michael) wants to be a woman, he sings like a woman, he moves like a woman, and it’s disturbing to see”.
– “I have nothing against homosexuals anymore, but people have the right to give up their homosexuality. I don’t see how you can judge [conversion therapy] and not something, like, Alcoholics Annonymous”.
– “It’s so sad, that people can get to hate themselves so much. That they completely destroy their bodies like that. I imagine he looks in the mirror every night and regrets getting those surgeries and cutting his dick off” (a documentary about a trans woman was on).
I try to lecture my mom on those things, but she just disagrees with me. “Well, let’s agree to disagree” she says. I just have to respect her opinion like I respect the fact she likes Morrisey and I don’t. And I can’t DARE call her hateful, because that’s crossing a line there. You can’t be hateful for having an opinion.
Back on topic… I also know some church attendees don’t necessarily agree with everything their pastor preach. Sometimes people attend a certain church just because it’s the closest one. So maybe they aren’t homophobes after all. Or maybe they totally are and they just don’t want to alienate viewers.
Wow. Sorry to hear all that. I winced reading it; I can’t imagine how hurtful it must be for you to hear it. You must be very forgiving, which can be good. Take care, though, that her toxicity doesn’t wear you down.
god damn it
This story partly makes me laugh because it is clear from the show that Joanna Gaines wears the pants, to use an outdated idiomatic expression, in that family. IMO it is fascist to demand a celebrity’s views on anything, their own sexuality, that of others, their religious or political views. I consider myself to be a liberal, but fascism is fascism. And there is plenty of liberal fascism going around in addition to the other kind.
Do you actually know how conversion therapy works? Do you know what they do to their patients? Do you know how many of those patients end up killing themselves? I find it weird that you’d think it’s fascist of me to ask for an explanation regarding that. Conversion therapy is, literally, the phychological and physical torture of teenagers. Supporting that is not a simple matter of preference, like wether you like Nicki Minaj or not.
I’m getting progressively more and more tired of this “tolerate my intolerance” narrative. Bigots nowadays are acting like THEY are the ones being persecuted.
Well, but isn’t it, alas, the double-edged sword of tolerance? If you preach it, you will inevitable have that thrown in your face.
I’m not sure what the answer is either, BUT I feel like these people have not yet shown any intolerance, their pastor has. If you want to hold him responsible – sure. I’m not sure why we have to corner them, though? They aren’t politicians, they aren’t making hateful phone calls, Duggar-style, to promote conversion therapy.
In fact, it seems to me that the only people at risk of conversion therapy silently endorsed by Gains’ attendance of their church are the other people in that church. And I’m sorry, if someone is willing to submit to conversion or force their child to undergo conversion, then it’s not on Johanna and Chip, it’s on that person or on those parents.
I think there’s a sea of difference between being intolerant towards someone’s actions and beleifs, than being intolerant towards things they didn’t choose to be.
I dont think these 2 are personally responsible for conversion therapy suicides. But if their pastor preaches that, I dont see what’s so blasphemous about asking them if they agree or not.
I really hope they don’t feel that way because I love their show! But I won’t watch if that is what they believe in.
I do understand that it’s hard to find a church that completely matches my beliefs. It’s why I haven’t been to church in many years until recently, up until we moved. It still wasn’t perfect but my Pastor was a kind and loving man so I overlooked things. One lady would always pipe up every chance she got to express her views on abortion. I believe in pro-choice. My Pastor made a few comments on marijuana, it’s legal here. I kept quiet but hello, Jesus’ first recorded miracle was turning water into wine so I think it’s cool. It’s all natural!!
What many who like to advertise how “Christian” they are don’t seem to fully understand is God is love. He is pure, all consuming, completely accepting LOVE. I have seen it first hand!! During my husband’s crushing depression, when every single day I wondered if he was going to kill himself, when each day was darker than the last, God showed himself to us. It was the most incredible moment/realization of my life!!! God is the most powerful love, like mama bear love times infinity and then you have only scratched the surface. But what really took me aback was the acceptance. Total complete acceptance of me. He knows every single thing I’ve done and said, He knows all of it and loves me completely. He was by my side through that darkness and got my husband and our kids through to the other side. It truly was a miracle!!
God doesn’t hate, God is love. He only, ONLY loves. He loves those who are gay, transgender, black, white, straight, even republicans!! 🙂
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails.
So, if “god” doesn’t hate, why does “he” ask his believers to do so much of it, in their churches of love? A lot of love can conceal quite a bit of hate.
Love is the social structure of humans existing well. The social structure of humans does not equal God!!!. It is merely how humans coexist peacefully.
Hence the need for the New Testament according to Christians. The god in the New Testament isn’t asking you to hate. Also, people do get it wrong. The bible does say that homosexuality is a sin, but it’s a sin because it is the end of your fruit, the end of your blood line. The bible does not tell you to hate homosexuals or force them to convert, or stone them. The bible also says to hate the sin but not the sinner. Using the teachings of the New Testament, you are to treat one another with love because judgement is only done by God in Heaven.
If you believe in the message or purpose of Jesus, it’s spelled out that man fell into bad habits and some things were misconstrued, so Jesus (the New Testament) is there to set the record straight and correct what was being done in God’s name. Like a re-do and erase type of thing. It’s all a fascinating study and asking deep questions and seeking answers leads people through a journey sho nuff. Mainly because god as represented in the Old Testament is complete 180 from the god represented in the New Testament. Therein lies the inconsistencies.
Conversion therapy?! Yep, I think I’ll not only be passing on their show but actively advocating against it. Bullying/electrocuting LGBTQ children to submit to your world view is a deal breaker for me, folks.
While we don’t know for sure (yet) where they stand on conversion therapy, etc., I will say that their constant gender sterotyping bugs me. The boys get chosen and praised for doing ‘manly jobs!’, while the girls get chosen to bake, etc. Joanna is always stoking Chip’s ego about what a big, strong man he is, and asking him to move anything larger than a breadbox for her (I.e., items she could easily move herself). I guess whatever floats their boat…I just hate seeing that way of thinking/acting being reinforced in the next generation.
I have been telling people this about this couple for over a year now. They came out in support of the twin homophobes who lost their show on HGTV. I cannot stand them.
I no longer buy their products or watch their show. I hope HGTV cancels their program ASAP!! Homophobia cannot be tolerated!!!
KateKack: who are the homophobic twins?? Not Property Brothers, I hope!! But I’m with you: homophobia is NOT ACCEPTABLE and I won’t support homophobic folks or businesses.
I don’t watch TV so I have no clue who these ppl are….but I find it interesting that commenters are already pouncing on them ready to hate them and boycott them. I really don’t see how this type of behavior is suppose to change minds and help promote acceptance…..seems to just give ppl more reason to hate.
Atheist. Very much pro-LGBT. Don’t have cable and don’t know who these people are.
If their show is about remodeling, and they aren’t doing anything to hurt anyone else, or publicizing personal messages of ignorance, hatred or intolerance, if they’re just remodeling homes, I don’t see why anyone would care what their personal, undisclosed beliefs are.
Key words from the pastor, if you remove the negation sentence: the people that “changed” from homosexuals to heterosexuals are struggling with feelings and are hurting. These people wouldn’t be struggling and hurting if they were allowed to just be themselves. Why would a pastor want for people to be struggling and hurting?
I would not be shocked if these two turned out to be anti-gay. Sorry to say, but they fit the template. If they release some of mealy-mouthed statement about how “some of their best friends are…” etc., then we know it’s probably true.
Building on what others have said upthread, it’s not discovering that I didn’t really know a LOT of people in my social circle who turned out to be Trump supporters. It’s that these people — who know me, who know my life and what I’m about, who know people who are immigrants, Muslim, trans — decided that all of that homophobia, racism, xenophobia, misogyny was acceptable. They decided it didn’t really affect them and they could live with it FROM THE PRESIDENT. That has been truly discouraging.
And if I read one more email or Facebook post about how we should just unite and give Trump a chance, I’m going to start throwing punches. This intense pressure to appease and go along is really shocking.
Dark race originated from Put & Cush Noah’s grandsons. The curse was placed on canaan(libya) not on cush(ethiopia,central asia).
Love those curses in the Bible! – It’s a curse, to be dark?! That’s only because of white people narrative…believing in curses, and cashing in on fear…the most shocking one to me is where “god” would curse the earth, and all its future inhabitants, because of a piece of fruit. We didn’t obey, and we are doomed, unless we believe, more of this nonsense.
I get religion. We are afraid.
The truth is that we were born to survive.
Dark race originated from Put & Cush Noah’s grandsons. The curse was placed on canaan(libya)also a grandson, not on cush(ethiopia,central asia).
If homosexuality is a choice, It should be a choice for everyone right?
I just would love for this crowd to fully identify when they chose to be straight. There clearly must have been a time in their lives where there was equal likelihood for them to take a boyfriend or girlfriend to the prom, and they made the righteous choice.
I’m sorry. dear. I didn’t mean to shut you down, quite like that. It’s just that my sexual experience, has been beautiful. Don’t subject the sweetest joys of your life, to rule-makers! Your most intimate life experience remains private, such as dreams, in safekeeping for sweetest fondest memories…
America right now is very tense. I am a white female working a corporate job–and for those of you that know of me, a RABID Clinton kaine fan–but I’ve received a lot of snide comments and jabs that since I’m “a white college educated female I must have voted for Trump because apparently YOU ALL did” which is categorically untrue. My neighbor confirmed he voted for Trump as a “log cabin republican,” which is a gay republican apparently. New term for me.
Anyway, I guess what I am saying is if we have learned NOTHING from 2016, we should recognize things are not always as they appear. While I despise the hate and judgement that the alt right crew/pro Trumpers are spouting, I don’t think two wrongs make a right and I’m still trying very very hard (sometimes unsuccessfully) to pull a MOBAMA and GO HIGH. I’m no better than they are if I pass judgement on them for what i perceive as Trump-ish traits.
MOBAMA and GO HIGH! Love that!
I will not play judge and jury until I hear their stance on the issue. Never assume. I don’t watch the show but I’m hoping that they are kind, open minded people. Megan I am deeply deeply sorry. My brother is gay and has dealt with so much negativity. I will protect him until my last breath. Thankfully he is a smart, confident person.
These comments… So now we are going to rush to judge people on what we think they might believe? When they haven’t said anything? Good luck with that. You can make anyone your enemy if you try hard enough.
Unpopular opinion, but I thought his comments would be much worse. There seems to be an ounce of understanding, which is missing from most conservative Christian rhetoric, plus his quotes are ambiguous about conversion therapy. He could just be referring to prayer and counseling, versus shock therapy, etc. Doesn’t make it right, but it might be the most progressive church in Waco.
The reality is most Christians are against a lot of things — drinking, drugs, premarital sex, living together, etc. I’m a bit perplexed why anti-homosexual and anti-abortion messages are the only issues people get heated about. After all, most pastors have preached against casual sex and praise mandatory marriage and parenthood. That seems to discriminate against a much wider swath of people. So what justifies boycotting something? Sincerely curious. These kind of things might change my opinion of someone, but not really my viewing or purchasing habits.
Thought provoking, summertime. I’d like to know the stats on people sitting in the amen corner of church every Sunday that had premarital sex and drink alcohol! Hahaha
People are sensitive about religious intolerance of lgbt people, because lgbt folks are victims of discrimination and outright hostility. For example, many states have passed laws (or at least attempted) that make it legal for businesses to discriminate against gay people. Conservative Christians may believe that premarital sex is wrong, but most are not calling for businesses to refuse services for people who have had premarital sex.
Or to use a more religious example: In the Catholic Church, priests are forbidden from officiating gay weddings, because homosexuality is a ‘sin’. Meanwhile, heterosexual couples can have premarital sex, cohabit, even have out-of-wedlock children, yet are still allowed to marry in the Catholic Church.
So perhaps your questions should be posed to Christian pastors, priests, and their devotees. Why are certain ‘sins’ tolerated, while being gay is treated like a massive character flaw that needs to be erased?
Regarding, the Gaines: I won’t assume that they agree with everything their pastor preaches, but if they’ve spoken about their religion in interviews, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask them if they agree with their church’s stance on homosexuality.
Since a lot of religions and religious organizations handle their stances on chastity in sexist ways (teaching that women who have had premarital or casual sex are making degraded/defiled/used up objects or trash out of themselves, teaching that women should dress modestly so that men don’t rape them, using misogynistic slurs toward women who don’t comply with those standards, and trying to block women’s access to things like birth control and abortion) and ways that are exploitative/abusive (isolating people from their families for not complying with the rules about sex), and since that stance often comes with the ‘Women are to be submissive to their menz” message, the premarital sex thing is something to watch out for too. But gay, bisexual, and transgender people may just be easier for them to identify as a target than someone who’s had premarital sex in their lifetime.
@Good points. I agree with what you said. I focused mostly on lgbt issues since that was the topic of this thread, but most critics of conservative Christianity do complain about their sexist views, particularly concerning woman’s reproductive rights.
Vivivoom, You are free to have your opinions – however, it is Very Bothersome when your opinions (laws that you seek to enact to enforce your opinions on Us: while slashing our rights and invalidating our own life’s choices) – and call you call It Love – Just Stop – your God is not our own. You believe it – We don’t. Call Us Satan, isn’t that how it’s done, in Christianity?
Yes, I hear you, the lost little sheep crying out for you…and you believe that you are saving Us.
Catholics are against a lot of things too – but that’s the church I chose to be in. I’m a classic “Cafeteria Catholic.” I show up when I want, I believe what I want (pro-choice, pro-female priests, pro-LGBTQ, etc), and I dont feel the need to explain it to anybody. My hope is that Chip and Joanna are similar, and more enlightened. I imagine their church is one of the biggest in town, where everyone they know goes, and is the biggest connection point to others in a community like Waco. That said, if I learned they indeed do hold anti-LGBTQ views personally, through leaks or whatever, then I’m out.
The problem is that people have reached out to HGTV and the Gaines’ rep, and still no answer either way on if they are pro-gay conversion therapy. The very fact that they refuse to just quickly state that they don’t agree with every single thing their pastor says…kind of speaks volumes anyways.
But isn’t unfair to put them on the spot? Regardless of what their answer is someone is going to be up in arms to boycott them.
Nope, they don’t get a pass. Any true Christian would be absolutely horrified by this pastor, challenge him, and never return.
You don’t get to support hate speech and incitement to torture and then say ‘oh, but I don’t actually agree with that part’. If you can hear someone say those things and still come back next week, you’re accepting and supporting it.
Organized religion is public. Attending church is a public act. Tithing is tacit agreement and support.
They may or may not share the same bigoted and dangerous views as their pastor. Part of me wants to give them the benefit of the doubt, hope that they’re the type of religious people who don’t blindly embrace every teaching from religious leaders and scriptures in the name of ‘respect for authority’, and say they don’t owe it to us to be public about where they stand on this issue. Then the other part thinks that their unwillingness to respond means either they do agree with their homophobic pastor, or they don’t, but are afraid that publicly disagreeing with their religious authority figure may either alienate other people in their church or cost them bigot dollars. I agree with the people who are saying wait and see what the couple believes themselves, the thing that’s disturbing with LBGTQ issues though is the “even if they are homophobic and support conversion therapy, that’s just their opinion, they shouldn’t be questioned, criticized, judged harshly, or boycotted for that belief. Because Tolerance.” commentary that tends to come up. That’s exactly the kind of mentality that normalizes homophobia and any other form of discrimination/inequality, and that gets us in political climates like the one we’re in right now. The discrimination, gaslighting, and outright abuse (conversion therapy would actually be a little bit of all 3) faced by gay people, bisexual people, and other groups of people by religious groups is not just a matter of personal opinion.
Yeah, “you’re intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance” is mind-boggling. Classic bully tactic.
A tactic used by both sides, incidentally.
I lived in Waco for 10 years and attended Antioch for 6 months (until they told me I couldn’t be a true believer because I couldn’t speak in tongues, but that’s another story). Antiochers have a pretty intense culture (some might say cult). They have church plants everywhere (probably in your city). I can’t speak for the Gaines (although they’re pretty much the same in tv as in real life based on my limited history and interactions with them while I lived there ) but the church leadership absolutely preaches these beliefs.
I find the Churchy-ness of the USA quite bizarre. I wonder what it is that has resulted in that culture?
I grew up in the churchy-ness and witnessed the hypocrisy first hand. That is why I ran far and ran fast as soon as I became an adult.
i just adore the pastor’s message… it doesn’t matter that you’re hurting so long as society can look at you and say “thank God o don’t have to deal with your different -from- mine life style! #MajorSideEye 😒
It’s hard for me to have empathy for anyone who is associated with a church who is against gay marriage and pro-conversion therapy. It’s 2016. I don’t have time for this baloney. Sorry, I just don’t.
wolfpup, I wish I could respond to you directly. Grew up Christian, am now agnostic leaning more towards atheism. Your post at November 30, 2016 at 4:59 pm is everything! I couldn’t agree with you more.
Quickly going through the comments I may not have noticed anyone else saying this, so I apologize if it’s a repeat but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Even though I support the LGBT community it does not mean everyone does, and that’s ok. As long as they aren’t hurting people, then I do not see anything wrong with them having their own personal beliefs. That being said, I’m more afraid of churches than I am of any LGBT person on this planet.
Opinions are fine – just stop trying to legislate them into my space.